The Hard Skills

Tuesday, July 2, 2024
Facebook Live Video from 2024/07/02 - Navigating the Complexity of Managing Up, Down, and All Around

Facebook Live Video from 2024/07/02 - Navigating the Complexity of Managing Up, Down, and All Around


2024/07/02 - Navigating the Complexity of Managing Up, Down, and All Around

[NEW EPISODE] Navigating the Complexity of Managing Up, Down, and All Around

Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)                              


We talk a lot about "managing up." Why is it important? What does it look like when it's successful? How can you navigate complex office politics? That’s what we will be delving into on this episode. 

In this episode, Roberta Matuson will share her personal experience with what happened to her promising career when she failed to recognize the importance of managing up, and the impact for her, and later her clients, when she learned how to do it well. As she astutely puts it, "If you don't manage up, you won't have to worry about managing down." Listeners will learn a new way to think about managing up, including how to safely navigate through the political landscape at work.

Roberta Matuson is an expert in the maximization of talent. She's the author of 7 books on leadership including the third edition of Suddenly in Charge: Managing Up, Managing Down, Succeeding All Around. She's also an executive coach who works with leaders in Fortune 500 companies and emerging businesses.

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Guest Website:

Guest LinkedIn:


Book: Amazon-Suddenly in Charge

Our website:

 #ManagingUp, #Leadership, #Careersuccess, #LeadershipDevelopment, #LeadershipCoaching

Tune in for this empowering conversation at

Show Notes

Segment  1

In this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Brancu is joined by Roberta Matuson as they discuss the term “managing up,” what it is, the complexity of it, and its importance. To start the interview, Dr. Brancu asks Roberta what she hopes the audience will learn from their discussion. From there, they go on to discuss Roberta’s background and her leadership experience in her early days. 

Segment 2

After the first break, we return to Dr. Brancu asking Roberta to explain the basics of “managing up” along with discussing the relationship with upper management that can come from this type of situation. From there, they talk about upper management styles, how to handle setting boundaries with contrasting views, and some of the “don’ts” of “managing up. They also talk about some of the best practices when someone is considering “managing up.” 

Segment 3

 Moving along in the interview, Roberta shares what people need to look for when moving forward in someone’s career when managing up, down, and all around. Dr. Brancu then asks different hypothetical questions involving managing up and what different routes someone can encounter in the workplace. They finish the segment by talking about the generational differences in how they primarily act in the workplace and how Roberta and Dr. Brancu view those mindsets. 

Segment 4

As the episode comes to an end, Dr. Brancu and Roberta wrap up by talking about “managing down,” and accountability. Dr. Brancu then asks Roberta what people need to know about managing the overall organization, not just managing up or down. To learn more about Roberta and her work, please visit or her LinkedIn page for more details. Also, Dr. Brancu’s application for the Towerscope Leadership Academy is now open until July 19th, so please visit to learn more and apply. 


00:00:46.030 --> 00:00:58.690 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership.

00:00:58.730 --> 00:01:03.639 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mirabu. I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist.

00:01:03.690 --> 00:01:13.179 Mira Brancu: founder of the Towerscope Leadership Academy, an associate, professor, a psychology today columnist, author of the Millennials Guide to Workplace politics.

00:01:13.460 --> 00:01:21.460 Mira Brancu: and I had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieved women navigate their leadership complexities.

00:01:21.610 --> 00:01:27.149 Mira Brancu: Thank you for joining us today. Now on to the focus of our episode. Today.

00:01:27.270 --> 00:01:30.619 Mira Brancu: we talk a lot about managing up.

00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:41.020 Mira Brancu: What is this concept about? Why is it so important? What does it look like when it's successful? How can you navigate these complex office politics?

00:01:41.220 --> 00:01:52.719 Mira Brancu: Now, you all know if you know me, you know I'm obsessed with workplace politics and navigating them. I wrote a book on it right, and managing up is a critical but often misunderstood piece of it.

00:01:52.860 --> 00:02:08.859 Mira Brancu: And that's why we have Roberta Mattison on today, because she is the expert on this. So I'm super excited to have her on. It's a great topic for Season four's focus on navigating complexity. Before I formally introduce you to her.

00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:33.199 Mira Brancu: I just want to remind you again if you haven't been listening that applications are now open through July 19th for the fall. 2024 cohort of our towerscope Leadership Academy. The Academy focuses on building a community of high achieving growth. Minded leaders looking to expertly navigate today's complex workplace challenges within disrupted industries and make a greater impact.

00:02:33.620 --> 00:02:40.669 Mira Brancu: Who is right for this you might ask, well, if you are experiencing a tension between your expectations.

00:02:40.700 --> 00:03:05.260 Mira Brancu: organizational culture, your values. This is the right community for you. If you're feeling blindsided by workplace politics, a desire to be more intentional and strategic, a desire to feel more effective in your leadership journey, or you're ambivalent or concerned about your leadership trajectory. This is a structured learning community that will help you take reflective pauses to support your next steps.

00:03:05.480 --> 00:03:10.419 Mira Brancu: You can learn more about it at our open house on July 15, th

00:03:10.470 --> 00:03:12.779 Mira Brancu: or directly apply at

00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:19.149 Mira Brancu: Www. Dot, go, and click on Leadership Academy.

00:03:19.420 --> 00:03:29.710 Mira Brancu: Okay? With no further ado I'm excited to introduce our special guest today. Roberta Mattison Roberta is an expert in maximizing talent.

00:03:30.030 --> 00:03:32.610 Mira Brancu: She is the author of 7 books

00:03:32.690 --> 00:03:41.389 Mira Brancu: on leadership, including the 3rd edition of suddenly in charge, managing up, managing down, succeeding all around.

00:03:41.430 --> 00:04:05.320 Mira Brancu: She's also an executive coach who works with leaders in fortune, 500 companies and emerging businesses, and she and I connected through the recognized expert community Dori Clark's recognized expert community where there are many writers, but she stands out as someone who really focuses on this area of leadership, the managing up, managing down, succeeding all around.

00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:16.549 Mira Brancu: Are you ready? Let's get started. Get out your pens and paper. If you're a pen and paper person which I am, or just get out your devices to start taking notes, reflecting deeply. Identify

00:04:16.769 --> 00:04:24.669 Mira Brancu: at least one small step from what you learn from her today to develop your hard skills, muscle

00:04:24.900 --> 00:04:27.409 Mira Brancu: welcome and great to have you on the show, Roberta.

00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:34.039 Mira Brancu: And if you can unmute, we'll have you join us? Yes.

00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:36.786 Roberta Matuson: Am I here now.

00:04:37.340 --> 00:04:39.387 Mira Brancu: You also welcome.

00:04:40.070 --> 00:04:42.939 Roberta Matuson: Pleasure to be here, and to be heard.

00:04:43.100 --> 00:04:46.650 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yes, so

00:04:47.030 --> 00:05:11.149 Mira Brancu: and we also indoctrinated her into our radio show. By the way, because she's not used to, I guess radio shows and podcasts where we're a little silly before we get started, the engineer and I were getting really silly beforehand. So anyway, that's us, Roberta, what do you want our audience to learn from you today about.

00:05:12.270 --> 00:05:37.259 Roberta Matuson: Well, I mean I I love the topic because, like you, this topic is near and dear to my heart. I've been, you know in this space for quite a while. As you mentioned, it's the 3rd edition of Suddenly in charge that was released in April, and the 1st edition I wrote was over 10 years ago. So, and like you, I have spent time in organizations as a leader.

00:05:37.260 --> 00:05:51.659 Roberta Matuson: and where I've experienced what it was like to be suddenly in charge, as well as also experiencing the politics that went on around me, although quite frankly, I had no idea at the time

00:05:52.096 --> 00:06:12.530 Roberta Matuson: that it was happening. But the one thing I want people to just keep in mind as we have. Our conversation is, if you don't manage up, which also requires you learning how to navigate politics. You're not gonna have to manage. You're not gonna have to worry about managing down, because in all likelihood you won't be there.

00:06:12.710 --> 00:06:35.280 Mira Brancu: Hmm! Well, if that isn't a strong endorsement for learning how to do this that, that is it. Let me ask you, you mentioned that this is really near and dear to your heart as well. So that must mean, like me. You've had your own interesting journey and experiences with this that led you to be interested. Can you share a little bit more about your ex, your personal experiences with this.

00:06:35.280 --> 00:06:47.210 Roberta Matuson: Sure. Well, when I was 24 years old I walked into my boss's office and only to find out that she wasn't there, and it turns out she was fired.

00:06:47.430 --> 00:06:59.820 Roberta Matuson: So I was. Then I was called into the President's office, and he told me this news, and I did what I thought any other 24 year old would do I asked for her job.

00:07:00.225 --> 00:07:15.880 Roberta Matuson: and they actually gave it to me, which was insane at the time, but you know I was 24. I figured I knew I knew how to be a leader. I certainly knew everything there was to know about managing a human resource function. Again, because I was 24.

00:07:17.520 --> 00:07:18.699 Roberta Matuson: Year. Thank you.

00:07:18.700 --> 00:07:19.250 Mira Brancu: Huh!

00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:33.459 Roberta Matuson: And but what I didn't see was the wave that took me out. I got taken out by a wave. I didn't see coming, and and remarkably I lasted 6 years, so I mean that I'm proud of.

00:07:33.690 --> 00:07:38.719 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. And when you say a wave, what kind of things did you see.

00:07:39.380 --> 00:08:07.530 Roberta Matuson: Well, I foolishly focused so much on the tactics, the everyday tasks in front of me that I failed to build relationships. I you know. Of course, when you're 24 years old and everyone else is considerably older on the executive team, and you're one of 2 women on that team, you would expect that there would be daggers being thrown at you. But again, being young and not knowing that I thought, well, everyone was really excited for me.

00:08:08.183 --> 00:08:27.650 Roberta Matuson: Yeah, they weren't excited that I had like a brand new, beautiful corner office which they had worked really hard to get, you know, for years I had the best reserve parking spot in the parking garage unbelievable, I mean, these are things that at that time were really important, and a sign of status.

00:08:27.700 --> 00:08:43.750 Roberta Matuson: And you know at some point you realize that maybe not. Everybody is excited about your success. And so you have to cultivate those relationships, and you know, bring people along and show them that you're not just, you know.

00:08:44.107 --> 00:08:50.130 Roberta Matuson: You know, whatever you're not just. You haven't just been given that job because you're a friend of someone.

00:08:50.810 --> 00:08:55.240 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. This reminds me of slightly

00:08:55.330 --> 00:09:18.660 Mira Brancu: similar reason for why I got interested in workplace politics and writing about it. And for those of you who have not been sort of listening to the show, or heard this before. Early in my career around the same age 2324, 25, super early in my career, different profession altogether.

00:09:18.670 --> 00:09:23.899 Mira Brancu: and it. It dawns on me that it was this kind of the same

00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:28.929 Mira Brancu: stemming from not building sufficient relationships with the people

00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:42.879 Mira Brancu: that I needed to. I did have good relationships with my supervisor and some of my peers, but I was a little too bold myself, and I went to the leader of this organization

00:09:43.120 --> 00:10:07.900 Mira Brancu: to share all of my opinions about why I thought what they were doing was unethical and wrong, and maybe they wanted to talk with me about it and hear some articles about it like it was just absurd looking back on. You know what what I was doing. But at the time I was like, I'm just gonna I'm just trying to be helpful to help them avoid risk. And isn't that great of me and but I really did not appreciate Number One that

00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:11.969 Mira Brancu: we didn't have that kind of trusting relationship for me to do that.

00:10:12.050 --> 00:10:28.870 Mira Brancu: And second, I didn't. I wasn't privy to all of the challenges that the leader was facing to get to that point, that they made that decision. I wasn't in those rooms. So I think what we're gonna get to some of that stuff in a little bit.

00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:33.190 Mira Brancu: I'm also curious you mentioned that you wrote your 1st edition

00:10:33.430 --> 00:10:34.979 Mira Brancu: 10 years ago.

00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:57.489 Mira Brancu: and that means that you had a second edition, and you now have this 3rd edition. That means that you noticed enough changes that you felt like it was important to have a refresher. I'm really curious to hear what changes did you notice over time that you wanted to add a second and a 3rd refresher to the book.

00:10:57.790 --> 00:11:06.270 Roberta Matuson: Yeah, that's a great question. Actually, I'm I'm gonna correct what I said because I wrote 1st book in 2,010 and time has stood still for me.

00:11:06.270 --> 00:11:07.650 Mira Brancu: Oh, yeah.

00:11:07.650 --> 00:11:08.405 Roberta Matuson: Years.

00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:11.220 Mira Brancu: Yeah, totally. We all have.

00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:35.840 Roberta Matuson: So I mean, you know, the second addition was just to polish things up. You know, life had definitely changed like the pendulum had swung. I think at that point there were probably a lot more like, I think the economy had swung, and maybe there weren't that many jobs. And people felt like, well, I have to suffer through this, and I was giving them guidance on how to do that. But most recently,

00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:51.769 Roberta Matuson: As a result of the pandemic. Everything really changed. And I remember I remember a number of years ago being asked by one of the major publishers to put together a book proposal on remote work.

00:11:52.310 --> 00:11:56.030 Roberta Matuson: I thought that was the most boring topic I had ever heard.

00:11:56.585 --> 00:11:56.830 Mira Brancu: What?

00:11:56.830 --> 00:12:17.630 Roberta Matuson: I know nothing about this. I don't know anyone doing this like whatever, and I put it together. And then a part of me was just crossing my fingers, saying, Please let them not pick me. And it was interesting, because what they did was they came back, and they said, You know this isn't a very. They asked me for the proposal. It was their idea. And then they came back and said.

00:12:17.710 --> 00:12:27.239 Roberta Matuson: You know, this is kind of a boring topic. We're gonna see if we can get somebody who is just really like a you know, who's doing it in their organization to write this book.

00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:28.950 Roberta Matuson: and I thought, Thank God!

00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:34.330 Roberta Matuson: But I didn't know that 4 years late, you know. 3 or 4 years later we would all be remote.

00:12:34.680 --> 00:13:02.490 Roberta Matuson: So when I had the opportunity, because my second book, I would say things in the book I would write, you know you cannot do this over the phone, or you need to get, you know, you need to fly out and have this conversation. And then all of a sudden, we couldn't do those things. So I was feeling like the book was very, wasn't aging well, and approached the publisher and said, It's time we need a 3rd edition, and they agreed.

00:13:02.900 --> 00:13:05.339 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And

00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:23.520 Mira Brancu: I feel like, now, as a result, it's not just, you know, working in a remote or hybrid environment. As a result of, let's say, working for a global organization. It's also the ways in which we've sort of changed and adjusted to work.

00:13:23.927 --> 00:13:32.872 Mira Brancu: To be more flexible. That may, it makes it even harder to have good conversations. Trusting relationships develop those which leads to a lot of

00:13:33.310 --> 00:13:57.270 Mira Brancu: complex interaction. So when we're reaching an ad break when we come back, let's explore a little bit about what is managing up. Actually, there are a lot of people that have different definitions of this, or don't even know what it is. So I'd love to hear more from you in particular. How do you define managing up versus managing sideways versus managing down. And then

00:13:57.806 --> 00:14:06.110 Mira Brancu: you know, maybe some some changes that you've seen over time. That has added to the complexity and what we do about it.

00:14:06.514 --> 00:14:14.889 Mira Brancu: So we're hearing that ad break or listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Bronco and our guest, Roberta Mattison.

00:14:14.930 --> 00:14:37.009 Mira Brancu: We air on Tuesdays at 5 PM. Eastern time. If you'd like to join us online right now, live and ask us questions in real time, please do. So we are on Linkedin. We're on Youtube at Talkrado, NYC, we're airing right now, and we're happy to answer your questions in real time. Otherwise we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.

00:16:49.290 --> 00:17:01.749 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Doctor Mira Broncu and our guest today, Roberta Mattison, where we talk, we're talking about all things, managing up, managing sideways, managing down. And

00:17:03.090 --> 00:17:07.570 Mira Brancu: we're 1st going to start with the basics, the foundations.

00:17:07.770 --> 00:17:09.709 Mira Brancu: What is managing up, Roberta?

00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:15.930 Mira Brancu: How would you define it. Where are the misunderstandings and myths around it? Tell us everything.

00:17:16.390 --> 00:17:27.900 Roberta Matuson: Well, my definition of managing up is managing your boss and those above you, so that you can get the resources you need for yourself and for your people.

00:17:27.970 --> 00:17:45.369 Roberta Matuson: and I think that the real misconception about the topic of managing up is people think it's brown nosing. They're like, Oh, you want to be the boss's favorite. No, no, it's really effective relationship building. So that when resources are tight you can take care of your people.

00:17:46.210 --> 00:17:47.416 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Now I

00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.190 Mira Brancu: I wonder

00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:57.549 Mira Brancu: how some supervisors and leaders see this from their perspective?

00:17:58.073 --> 00:18:07.606 Mira Brancu: I'm pretty sure that the message isn't manage them because they're annoying or difficult, and manipulate them into doing what you want them to do right.

00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:10.488 Roberta Matuson: No, but you could manage them if they're difficult

00:18:12.330 --> 00:18:14.220 Roberta Matuson: and absolutely.

00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:18.800 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And so, what's what's the difference between

00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:25.199 Mira Brancu: sort of misusing the relationship and using it appropriately when you're managing up.

00:18:25.850 --> 00:18:52.379 Roberta Matuson: Well, I mean, look, I think everyone can tell when you're trying to get in the boss's favor. So this is not about manipulation, you know, this is about building a relationship. And this takes time. And this takes effort so that when you do need something and you ask for it, you will get it. So, for example, you know, if you need more staff, and there's a hiring freeze, and your boss knows, like man, this

00:18:52.380 --> 00:19:18.960 Roberta Matuson: person they don't ask for anything. They must really need this because you've built that relationship because you've deposited those. You know, those coins in the relationship bank. There's a very good chance that you'll get what you ask for, and and in return that will make it easier for your team, because now they're not all putting in all these hours, and you know they know that you're you have their best interest in mind.

00:19:19.520 --> 00:19:27.270 Mira Brancu: Yeah, let's talk about that for for a moment, because sometimes we don't have the best relationship with our bosses, even though we've tried.

00:19:27.310 --> 00:19:34.609 Mira Brancu: And so if you get somebody coming to you saying I've tried everything, and I I can't. I feel like I'm

00:19:34.750 --> 00:19:35.950 Mira Brancu: at a loss

00:19:36.100 --> 00:19:47.139 Mira Brancu: with my boss. How do I get around them? Or how do I address the situation? What are some of the sort of 1st things you start wondering about, or exploring with them?

00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:57.619 Roberta Matuson: Well, and let me just say this, I mean, you do have options. Okay? One of them is, you can make your boss look so good he or she gets promoted. Okay.

00:19:58.395 --> 00:19:59.170 Mira Brancu: Box.

00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:22.790 Roberta Matuson: So that's a strategy you can use. Another strategy is, you can, you know, ask to move into a different department for more exposure. So you're not. You may think you may feel like you're stuck, but you're not. And then, of course, there's the strategy of finding a new opportunity elsewhere. But you know a lot of times you may think that your boss comes to work every day with the idea.

00:20:22.790 --> 00:20:44.140 Roberta Matuson: Gee! How can I make her life miserable, right? But chances are that's really not the story. So you know, if you're able to. And I write about this in my book, can we talk, which is all about difficult conversations. If you're able to address your boss in a respectful way, and point out to this individual with, you know, evidence.

00:20:44.270 --> 00:20:56.620 Roberta Matuson: and not as if you're in a courtroom. But just you know, hey, here are some examples of what I'm feeling or seeing. Then you can have a conversation, and you can start to see if you can build a relationship with this person.

00:20:56.970 --> 00:21:20.055 Roberta Matuson: Now, I, personally, I have worked for like the worst boss on the planet. So I know I've had that experience. So your boss might be the second worst boss. But there's no way you're gonna match this individual. And honestly, it was interesting, because I found myself a friend of mine said to me, oh, you should meditate

00:21:20.870 --> 00:21:24.039 Roberta Matuson: like, Okay, well, I'm from New York.

00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:36.604 Roberta Matuson: We don't meditate New York, you know. And I'm like, Okay, I'll try it. That's how desperate I was. And when I realized, like, I didn't wanna spend my evenings like, you know, on a yoga mat going

00:21:37.150 --> 00:21:43.597 Roberta Matuson: you know that I'd rather take salsa dancing lessons during that time. That's when I got out of there. So.

00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:45.505 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So how do you?

00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:47.889 Mira Brancu: How do you assess

00:21:48.570 --> 00:21:50.530 Mira Brancu: whether it's worth

00:21:51.745 --> 00:21:52.690 Mira Brancu: trying

00:21:52.990 --> 00:21:56.280 Mira Brancu: to manage up and continue trying? Because.

00:21:56.520 --> 00:22:00.549 Mira Brancu: you know, it's more about like getting to learn about the manager's style

00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:06.710 Mira Brancu: versus this is so unhealthy it's not worth trying. I gotta go. I gotta get out of here.

00:22:06.890 --> 00:22:32.940 Roberta Matuson: Well, I think everybody knows what their limits are, you know. I mean, there are toxic bosses, and there are toxic cultures, and there are toxic workplaces, and if you happen to land in one, you're not going to change that, no matter what you do, and you have to put your health So you know, everybody just has to evaluate for themselves. If you're the only person on your team that feels this way.

00:22:33.570 --> 00:23:02.569 Roberta Matuson: Well, maybe maybe there is a bit of maybe it is you. But then, again, perhaps you're being discriminated against, and that's why you feel this way. So there are factors. But you know, you've got to step back and do a reality check and say, just just like, when you're a manager, right? You have to do a reality check and say, how much more effort am I gonna put into this non performer? That's on my team. And what am I gonna cut the court? Well, as an employee. You have to ask yourself

00:23:02.570 --> 00:23:12.949 Roberta Matuson: how much effort, how much bandwidth do I have to try to resolve this? Or am I better off just going someplace else and becoming, you know, getting into a more sane environment.

00:23:13.690 --> 00:23:17.269 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I really like that. I, you know, thinking around

00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:38.339 Mira Brancu: recognizing when you're the only person experiencing it. And whether it's discrimination or not. That's kind of like a decision point, or is everyone experiencing it? They're on the same page experiencing this bad feeling. That's a data point, right? And you know, some other data points are.

00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:39.180 Mira Brancu: have

00:23:39.430 --> 00:24:05.740 Mira Brancu: have I tried in the 1st place, like, have I tried to understand what my manager needs and wants, and what their best ways of communicating are? Or do I insist in my way, and am I sort of getting kind of a little entrenched in the way that I want to see things or do things, or whatever some of us do start only being able to see things from our perspective and not from somebody else's. So have I actually tried.

00:24:05.780 --> 00:24:09.419 Mira Brancu: And all of those are just data points to help you decide.

00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:25.129 Mira Brancu: Is this the right environment for me or not? And if it is, then am I willing to try a few things out whether that is directly with my boss like you said, or finding other opportunities within the same system to see what happens if I move to a different.

00:24:25.190 --> 00:24:36.589 Mira Brancu: you know area. Now. In your book. You also talk about some no-no's are what no-no's are there for managing up, are there things we shouldn't be trying or doing.

00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:40.289 Mira Brancu: or things that could get in our way or sabotaging our success.

00:24:40.951 --> 00:24:44.378 Roberta Matuson: You know we shouldn't be trying to manage up too high.

00:24:45.670 --> 00:24:46.427 Roberta Matuson: So if you're.

00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:47.842 Mira Brancu: Like I did.

00:24:48.230 --> 00:25:10.802 Roberta Matuson: Yeah, going to your boss's boss's boss and seeing if you can have lunch with the President, may not work well for you, or going above your boss's head and starting to build a relationship with somebody who he or she's been trying to build a relationship with. It may not be cool, you know. So it's really trying to stay, you know, within your

00:25:11.150 --> 00:25:22.949 Roberta Matuson: area you can go up a level. That's fine, because you want those relationships so that you know your boss's peers respect you, and and that can help propel your whole department forward.

00:25:22.950 --> 00:25:26.120 Roberta Matuson: But, I wouldn't try to go up too high.

00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:39.929 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's 1 thing to want to develop relationships with people, or, you know, across the system. And that makes perfect sense. It's a good idea you can't just rely on one person

00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:49.620 Mira Brancu: to have your back see all your value promote you every single time. It's not fair to them. It's not fair to you.

00:25:49.780 --> 00:25:51.229 Mira Brancu: On the other hand.

00:25:51.500 --> 00:26:09.459 Mira Brancu: it does. There is something that feels a little off when you're sort of going to the boss's boss's boss, you know, and it makes everybody sort of question your intention if you haven't at least tried

00:26:09.470 --> 00:26:16.559 Mira Brancu: managing directly, you know, up to your boss first, st at the very least right, if not the the next level up.

00:26:16.560 --> 00:26:22.360 Roberta Matuson: Right, and of course, you know, if your boss is doing something illegal, I mean, you know all bets are off.

00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:23.034 Mira Brancu: Right.

00:26:23.983 --> 00:26:24.530 Roberta Matuson: You know.

00:26:24.530 --> 00:26:25.190 Mira Brancu: Laura.

00:26:25.190 --> 00:26:34.159 Roberta Matuson: Go up to the top if that's what's required. Just understand that you may not come back. But that's okay. At least you've you know you've got your ethics still.

00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:42.400 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. You know. You have to think about your integrity and ethics, too. That's really important. Yeah. So then,

00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:48.769 Roberta Matuson: And that's easier to do when you're not like the sole support of either yourself or your family. Right? So.

00:26:48.770 --> 00:26:54.870 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that is a good point. That there is a decision making point about like, is this all worth it?

00:26:55.270 --> 00:26:58.119 Mira Brancu: And what? What can I

00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:10.320 Mira Brancu: accept as my reality now, and work towards a different reality over time? If I have very little room for adjusting or changing my situation right now.

00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:12.170 Roberta Matuson: yeah.

00:27:12.490 --> 00:27:17.150 Mira Brancu: So then do you have some best practices?

00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:25.659 Mira Brancu: Maybe like your top 3 best practices or ways to succeed when managing up when somebody is going to be thinking about this.

00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:50.329 Roberta Matuson: Well, I think you have to 1st decode your boss like, what kind of boss do you have? And in the book I talk about 4 different kinds of bosses, you know. They're dictatorial bosses, who are just, gonna you know, yell orders. They're the bureaucratic boss who, you know, follows the rules, even if they don't make sense, couple of other different kinds. So you have to kind of decode and see

00:27:50.330 --> 00:28:08.089 Roberta Matuson: what is my boss's style here, and understand that sometimes there's gonna be some crossover. Your bosses all aren't gonna fit into these 4 pretty boxes. But once you've determined that, you know, I provide a lot of guidance in the book on. Okay, for example, if you have a bureaucratic boss.

00:28:08.090 --> 00:28:11.689 Roberta Matuson: you follow those rules, you learn the rules. You follow the rules.

00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:15.429 Roberta Matuson: If you can't work in that kind of environment, then get out.

00:28:15.530 --> 00:28:34.400 Roberta Matuson: And I could not work in that kind of environment. So you know, you gotta know yourself. So that's 1 piece of advice. I also think it's really important, you know, when you're managing up to ask for what you need, and if you feel like you're ready and you need a promotion.

00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:37.540 Roberta Matuson: you should go. Ask for it. Don't wait.

00:28:39.630 --> 00:28:42.699 Mira Brancu: Umhm, those are really good. Yeah. And

00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:44.140 Mira Brancu: you know.

00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:51.520 Mira Brancu: a lot of us don't necessarily always know what we need of a boss. We have this sort of like vision of

00:28:51.530 --> 00:28:54.178 Mira Brancu: a perfect boss and

00:28:54.900 --> 00:29:02.970 Mira Brancu: which they don't exist. I wasn't a perfect boss, you know, like we we all have our faults as as leaders, and we all have our

00:29:03.270 --> 00:29:05.719 Mira Brancu: ways of doing things. So it's all about like.

00:29:05.810 --> 00:29:11.722 Mira Brancu: do we mesh? Right? And later on I I learned

00:29:12.600 --> 00:29:26.970 Mira Brancu: when I changed professions, and I was interviewing at another place, and they called my current boss, and they said, You know, what would, what would mirror need? What? What is the right environment? And he said.

00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:39.483 Mira Brancu: you need to give her a vision and get out of her way. And I actually know that about, but like it was helpful to learn that that that

00:29:40.040 --> 00:29:43.929 Mira Brancu: would provide me with a good boss for me

00:29:44.120 --> 00:29:59.919 Mira Brancu: and that is something that now I I learn and realize when I go on other interviews, or when I'm thinking about like who would be a good leader in in terms of my style, and how how I mesh with them, and that's 1 of those sort of things that I think about like if I

00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:17.970 Mira Brancu: tend to feel a little too micromanaged. I'm going to feel stifled, and I'm going to feel like I don't have enough room to be able to succeed implementing the thing that they asked me to implement. So it's just a matter of getting to know yourself well enough and getting to know your boss well enough to know how you can succeed together.

00:30:18.760 --> 00:30:41.262 Roberta Matuson: Yeah, I think it's also especially for our younger listeners. You know, the 1st time out you're not gonna know what works. And then the next time you're gonna be like, Oh, I don't want this kind of boss. Okay? And then the next time you're gonna be like, Oh, I really would like this kind of boss. You're gonna get better at picking bosses, just like when you're dating you, you make better choices hopefully, the longer you date.

00:30:42.378 --> 00:30:51.720 Mira Brancu: Exactly exactly. Okay. We are nearing an ad break again. And when we come back, Roberta, I

00:30:51.770 --> 00:31:05.449 Mira Brancu: a couple of scenarios that come up often. I'd love to share with you and see what you think about those scenarios. So let's chew on those right after we come back. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Doctor Mira Broncu and our guest today, Roberta Mattison.

00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:18.649 Mira Brancu: we air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you are watching, live, feel free to ask us questions. Live, and we will answer, live on Youtube or Linkedin at Talkradio, Nyc. And we'll be right back in just a moment.

00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:26.409 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the heart skills with Barbara today, Barna

00:33:26.550 --> 00:33:38.361 Mira Brancu: and one of the most common things I get asked about. I have 2 that I'd like to share with you and see what you think about them. The 1st one is that

00:33:39.830 --> 00:33:46.469 Mira Brancu: sometimes like maybe what happened with you and me. You get promoted very quickly, very fast.

00:33:46.510 --> 00:33:48.760 Mira Brancu: and over your peers.

00:33:48.860 --> 00:33:54.040 Mira Brancu: and sometimes even over your own bosses, and it creates a very awkward

00:33:54.170 --> 00:34:05.489 Mira Brancu: kind of situation. And I'm curious like, how do you see the changes, adjustments, or things you need to be thinking about with managing up, down to the side all around. When that happens.

00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.031 Roberta Matuson: Well, 1st you have to remember that.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:42.910 Roberta Matuson: You know the people that were your peers. You're now their boss, and they're probably not gonna invite you to have lunch with them. Okay, the relationship is going to change. And so the 1st piece of advice that I give to my coaching clients when they're in that situation is, you know. Go on to Facebook and unfriend them. Okay? And and I don't mean that disrespectfully. It's just like

00:34:42.909 --> 00:35:06.129 Roberta Matuson: you don't need them to see your posts when you pull up in your brand new Bmw. You know, cause you got this big raise. You know your life is gonna change. You're gonna be in a different place than they may be. And the good news about Facebook and I don't know about Instagram or anything else is that when you unfriend someone they don't get a notice. Okay, so that's the good news.

00:35:06.507 --> 00:35:24.869 Roberta Matuson: But your relationship will change. And you have to get really clear with them, and just set the guidelines and say, Listen, you and I. You know we've said some things in the past about management, I can assure you I'm not gonna be sharing those okay. Going forward.

00:35:24.870 --> 00:35:39.619 Roberta Matuson: I will ask you not to share those things with me, because if you do. And it's something that I need to share with upper management. I'm gonna have to do that. So let's just agree to not do that. So I think it's really important to just set the guidelines.

00:35:40.170 --> 00:35:55.270 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I really like that. Not, you know. You don't think about doing that with people that you consider your friends right, like some some of your peers. You've turned into friends, and you've hung out, and you know a lot about each other, and that creates a situation where

00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:03.580 Mira Brancu: you really have to trust each other, that you won't use that stuff against each other, and being able to have an open, honest

00:36:03.740 --> 00:36:05.340 Mira Brancu: conversation about

00:36:05.540 --> 00:36:09.349 Mira Brancu: how to move forward with the information from the past.

00:36:10.060 --> 00:36:11.379 Mira Brancu: Very powerful.

00:36:12.340 --> 00:36:25.490 Roberta Matuson: Well, it's important, because otherwise your friends gonna be like, why did you tell your boss that I told you that in confidence, you're like, wait a minute. That's not what our agreement was. So.

00:36:25.490 --> 00:36:26.100 Mira Brancu: Right.

00:36:26.655 --> 00:36:33.910 Mira Brancu: and you know they would be wise to, you know, sort of engage in that kind of thoughtful conversation, because

00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:52.959 Mira Brancu: you're now also in a position to continue supporting them and helping them when they might be interested in a promotion, a future opportunity. And so it's like, Don't burn the bridges. But let's have some guidelines about some, you know, a professional relationship where we're not harming each other. We're helping each other. We're supporting each other in professional ways.

00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.100 Roberta Matuson: Exactly.

00:36:54.600 --> 00:36:58.721 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. The second scenario is

00:36:59.740 --> 00:37:04.920 Mira Brancu: so a lot of people ask me about how to manage wanting

00:37:05.060 --> 00:37:06.510 Mira Brancu: to speak up

00:37:06.580 --> 00:37:09.690 Mira Brancu: and be authentic to their voice

00:37:09.870 --> 00:37:12.710 Mira Brancu: right? But feeling like

00:37:13.410 --> 00:37:14.630 Mira Brancu: they're either

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:32.209 Mira Brancu: annoying their boss by sharing concerns when they see concerns, or that they're speaking up too much, or that it's not wanted, or that it's not their place, or worried that they'll be put back into their place. How do you?

00:37:32.950 --> 00:37:34.699 Mira Brancu: What advice do you give

00:37:35.395 --> 00:37:40.660 Mira Brancu: when it comes to the tension between managing up

00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:43.911 Mira Brancu: or down, but mostly managing up

00:37:44.720 --> 00:37:48.549 Mira Brancu: but also sort of managing the the tension with

00:37:49.620 --> 00:38:00.540 Mira Brancu: speaking up versus not speaking up the timing of that, the appropriateness of what you want to share versus, not share when when you especially when you're concerned about leadership decisions management decisions.

00:38:00.860 --> 00:38:10.389 Roberta Matuson: Well, I mean, obviously, it's gonna depend on the decision, right? So if the decision is to swap out, you know Seattle's best coffee for Starbucks.

00:38:10.775 --> 00:38:13.060 Roberta Matuson: you know. Maybe just let it go it.

00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:40.010 Roberta Matuson: Bring your own coffee. I mean, those are not like life changing for most people decisions, you know. But if you really think that it's gonna put the company in harm's way, you can just say to your boss, you know, I have some concerns. I don't know how you know. Would you like me to share them with you? Do you prefer to just put them in an email like, you know, how do you want me to communicate this to you? And or you just want me to let it go, and you just assume you got this.

00:38:40.230 --> 00:38:42.185 Roberta Matuson: even though you don't know what this is.

00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:44.070 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah.

00:38:44.070 --> 00:38:49.459 Roberta Matuson: So I would just sort it's every situation is really gonna change. It's it's gonna depend on what the.

00:38:51.930 --> 00:39:13.579 Mira Brancu: I really appreciate that. So what I'm picking up on that is, pick your battles. Not enough. People pick their battles, ask for permission to offer advice. Don't offer it unsolicited, right? And then, when you do ask permission, maybe ask the format and method that would be best received

00:39:13.790 --> 00:39:27.672 Mira Brancu: right? So that you're not deciding. Well, this is a public forum. I should just speak up right now, even though it's not on their agenda at all, and I'm sure they'll appreciate it, because I'm speaking up.

00:39:28.020 --> 00:39:38.330 Roberta Matuson: Right, and I just love rhetorical permission, like, if you're talking one on one with your boss, I would just say, with your permission, I'd like to share some things with you. And what are they gonna do? Say, no.

00:39:38.500 --> 00:39:41.088 Roberta Matuson: But if you say you know,

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:46.390 Roberta Matuson: is it okay? If I share some things with you, you know they may go. No, I don't want to hear.

00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:47.520 Roberta Matuson: Oh.

00:39:48.140 --> 00:40:00.819 Mira Brancu: Nice. I like that. Yeah, it honestly. It reminds me of the talk that I had with my daughter the other day, and you know I was nervous to ask her this question, cause she had already bit my head off before about asking.

00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:01.320 Roberta Matuson: In, the.

00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:03.810 Mira Brancu: And so I 1st said.

00:40:04.530 --> 00:40:08.847 Mira Brancu: Can I ask you a question without you getting too mad at me?

00:40:09.180 --> 00:40:12.530 Roberta Matuson: Oh, I've done that, and that's not a good way to go.

00:40:12.810 --> 00:40:21.237 Mira Brancu: And normally, she just sort of relaxes like, Okay, I I got it. You want me to brace myself without chewing your head off. Got it. Okay.

00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:22.700 Mira Brancu: what did you say?

00:40:23.100 --> 00:40:24.029 Mira Brancu: And entry way.

00:40:24.200 --> 00:40:31.679 Roberta Matuson: I have a daughter as well, and I've learned I don't do that anymore. I'm like, you know, here permission of. I'd like to kind of tell you what I'm thinking.

00:40:32.860 --> 00:40:33.725 Roberta Matuson: Okay.

00:40:34.590 --> 00:40:48.199 Mira Brancu: Yeah, well, and you know, again, it's just a matter of getting to understand the other person's preferences. And what causes them to react negatively or positively to an introduction to a conversation.

00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:50.189 Mira Brancu: but at least creating an introduction.

00:40:50.488 --> 00:41:09.020 Roberta Matuson: It's about time, I mean, you know, if your boss is, you know it's Friday afternoon she's packing up. She's trying to catch the ferry, and you're like, well, you know, I'd really like to talk to you about something. It's not the right time. It's just not, you know. You gotta pick your time as well as you know your battles.

00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:14.919 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. With with your daughter or your boss, if they look irritable.

00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:17.285 Mira Brancu: maybe not. Now.

00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:19.700 Mira Brancu: maybe not. Now.

00:41:19.700 --> 00:41:30.519 Roberta Matuson: And that's what's so interesting. When I wrote suddenly in charge, my kids were, I don't know. Maybe you know, 8 and 10 today they're in the workplace. So.

00:41:31.300 --> 00:41:34.025 Roberta Matuson: You know, I've learned a lot.

00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:35.400 Mira Brancu: Yes.

00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:36.769 Roberta Matuson: Like, you know.

00:41:36.860 --> 00:42:02.020 Roberta Matuson: 5 books in between. So it's sort of like, okay, I'm gonna share my my newfound knowledge with with the people who are reading my books. So you learn. And and I think you know, for those of you, your listeners who are parents. I think that there's a lot of you know. Similarities between, you know, managing your home and your family and managing the people in the office.

00:42:02.390 --> 00:42:21.020 Mira Brancu: Totally. I mean, there are relationships. Right? It's it's managing relationships out of curiosity. Since since we've been sort of talking about younger people and people have been, you know, in the workforce for a while. Have you seen any either generational differences or tensions, when it comes to managing up styles and preferences.

00:42:21.870 --> 00:42:26.843 Roberta Matuson: Well, I think the younger generation is still trying to figure it out, you know, as a as was I right.

00:42:27.370 --> 00:42:27.950 Mira Brancu: I'm sorry.

00:42:27.950 --> 00:42:42.930 Roberta Matuson: So I don't fault them and go. I can't believe you can't figure this out. But so you know what I love about Gen. Z. And like 2 of my children, are Gen. Z. What I love about this generation is that you know

00:42:42.960 --> 00:43:11.300 Roberta Matuson: they don't care. They'll just speak their mind. And again I'm from New York that works for me. Just tell me like it is. Don't! Don't make me try to have to figure it out and I think that's great. And then I remember with the millennials, when I did a lot of work on the generations in the workplace, I interviewed a lot of millennials, and their message was, you know, don't confuse my ability to get work done quickly, as laziness.

00:43:11.632 --> 00:43:12.630 Mira Brancu: In other words.

00:43:12.630 --> 00:43:17.879 Roberta Matuson: If I was done with my work at 3 45. I'm not sitting here until 5 o'clock.

00:43:18.130 --> 00:43:25.229 Roberta Matuson: you know, and I'm not easy, and you know I was like, boy. I wish I was like that when I was their age.

00:43:25.520 --> 00:43:30.899 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I noticed that I had. I had an employee who did that, and honestly, it

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:39.240 Mira Brancu: it irritated me because I was like, well, if you have more time, I would love more help, not for you to say I'm done. Goodbye.

00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.610 Roberta Matuson: Yeah, but.

00:43:39.610 --> 00:43:39.940 Mira Brancu: And yeah.

00:43:39.940 --> 00:43:46.860 Roberta Matuson: Hand. Why am I killing myself here? I'll just take my time, otherwise my reward is more work. So I get both sides.

00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:52.913 Mira Brancu: That's true. That's so true. So true. Good point. Okay. Now, I've learned my lesson there, too.

00:43:54.029 --> 00:44:20.400 Mira Brancu: Okay, when we're reaching one more ad break when we come back. Let's flip it a little bit to managing down and managing to the side a little bit right, and let me tell you guys the thing that I love so interesting. It's so fun about her book. I I read it actually in Pdf. And managing up versus managing down. You flip the book one way or another. So this is fun.

00:44:20.776 --> 00:44:26.110 Mira Brancu: So we will come back after the ad break. We'll talk about managing down into the site a little bit.

00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:32.500 Mira Brancu: You're listening to the hard skills with me, Doctor Mirabu and our guest, Roberta Mattison, and we'll be right back in just a moment.

00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:52.659 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabaku and our guest today Roberta Mattison and Roberta is an expert in managing up, managing down and all around, succeeding all around. And we've really focused heavily on the managing up piece.

00:46:53.250 --> 00:46:55.050 Mira Brancu: Once you have that down.

00:46:55.340 --> 00:47:05.260 Mira Brancu: then you can really succeed in all the other places. Right? Because you, you yourself said, if you can't manage up, you can just forget about managing town. I just love that. So

00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.690 Mira Brancu: one of the things about managing down.

00:47:08.390 --> 00:47:13.090 Mira Brancu: especially in today's sort of hybrid and remote workplace, is

00:47:13.100 --> 00:47:15.949 Mira Brancu: the challenge that a lot of managers have

00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:19.169 Mira Brancu: between the tension of holding people accountable.

00:47:19.300 --> 00:47:21.239 Mira Brancu: helping them stay engaged

00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:27.560 Mira Brancu: and helping them manage burnout and feel supported all at the same time. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that.

00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:39.660 Roberta Matuson: Well, the 1st thing you said was holding people accountable. And unfortunately, what I see happening over and over again, even in the executive ranks is that leaders are not holding people accountable.

00:47:39.710 --> 00:48:03.460 Roberta Matuson: and therefore those people have no idea that their performance isn't up to par, and they're quite shocked when they either get their performance review and they're raised. They don't get one, or they're asked to leave, and they have no idea how this happened. And so I think this whole thing about accountability. You really have to look at it. As you know.

00:48:03.490 --> 00:48:23.860 Roberta Matuson: my person deserves to know how they're doing, and if I ask them to do something they need to do it, and if they don't do it, I need to hold them accountable so. And I know that's hard. When you've got 20 other people or 20 other things going on. But it's really critical as a leader, you know, to hold your people accountable and be accountable to them.

00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:27.720 Roberta Matuson: because if you tell them you're going to do something, you darn well, better do it.

00:48:28.630 --> 00:48:30.794 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And you know,

00:48:31.900 --> 00:48:40.949 Mira Brancu: it's not just low performers, high performers who are not held accountable end up feeling disengaged because they're like, what's the point?

00:48:41.010 --> 00:48:58.199 Mira Brancu: I'm not feeling challenged. I'm not getting enough interesting opportunities to really try something that's difficult. And that is not a good thing for high achievers either. Nobody benefits from not being held accountable.

00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:10.229 Roberta Matuson: Right. And I think, you know, I think it's important for leaders to understand that today, the number one thing that people really want is development, right? So if you have the ability to get them a coach

00:49:10.230 --> 00:49:29.259 Roberta Matuson: or to put them in a group coaching program like the one that you offer or the ones that I offer. I mean, that's like the greatest gift you can give someone, in fact, that reminds me. When I was suddenly in charge. My boss gave me a choice, he said. Roberta, you can, you know, hire a team of people?

00:49:29.390 --> 00:49:36.310 Roberta Matuson: And I thought, Well, what am I gonna do with them, because I don't even know what I'm doing, or you can hire consultants.

00:49:36.430 --> 00:49:38.690 Roberta Matuson: And then he also gave me a coach.

00:49:38.910 --> 00:49:58.929 Roberta Matuson: and that was just like life changing because my coach was helping me navigate the crazy situation that I had found myself in. So you know. Keep in mind what your people today are really looking for. That's really important to them. The idea that they're absolutely good to go.

00:49:59.140 --> 00:50:13.440 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. And I'm noticing that definitely with the younger generation is they want to be mentored. They want for you to care about their professional development. They wanna make an impact. They wanna make a change. And so if you invest in them, they will invest back

00:50:13.871 --> 00:50:17.210 Mira Brancu: but but it's it's it's that piece for sure.

00:50:17.801 --> 00:50:20.460 Mira Brancu: Roberta, last question here is

00:50:20.937 --> 00:50:28.379 Mira Brancu: what do people need to know about managing across the organization? Not up, not down, just across.

00:50:28.990 --> 00:50:58.739 Roberta Matuson: Well, these are the people you know, you're gonna need things from, you know, you might need somebody to pay a vendor quickly. Okay, because they're not gonna start the work until they're paid. You might need to ask for favors. You might need a check cut. You might need to. You know, there's a million things you might need. And so, you know, if you have relationships with people, you can call in every now and again a favor. But in order to do that, you have to give before you ask.

00:50:59.515 --> 00:51:19.989 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yet again, that relationship thing, huh, you know, helping relationships, we help each other, it doesn't have to be transactional, but but there's only one way to feel like you can lean on on somebody else and they could lean on you. You're you're you're gonna have to develop those trusting relationships.

00:51:20.230 --> 00:51:34.949 Roberta Matuson: Yeah, it's all about trust, I mean absolutely. And you never know. You know, when you're up for promotion your boss might come to his. You know your peers and other departments, and say, what do you think about her?

00:51:35.420 --> 00:51:40.200 Roberta Matuson: You know we're looking at, possibly promoting her. What's what's your experience been.

00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:42.170 Roberta Matuson: You don't want it to be like.

00:51:43.991 --> 00:51:47.095 Mira Brancu: Either I don't know, or Gosh.

00:51:48.130 --> 00:51:50.663 Roberta Matuson: Someone else. Is this the best you got?

00:51:50.980 --> 00:52:00.220 Mira Brancu: Right very good point about pro the promotion implications of your ability to manage up, down and all around as well. Right.

00:52:00.558 --> 00:52:06.130 Mira Brancu: If you've shared a lot today, what is one thing that you want people to take away from today?

00:52:06.616 --> 00:52:08.013 Roberta Matuson: Where we started.

00:52:09.130 --> 00:52:16.440 Roberta Matuson: Honestly, if you don't manage up, you're not gonna have to worry about managing down. And in the beginning it's gonna be very uncomfortable.

00:52:16.600 --> 00:52:34.889 Roberta Matuson: but I do walk you through everything you need to know about managing up what what I love about the book it's like you mentioned. It's in 2 halves. So if that's all you really want to learn, you only have to read that half, and if you don't have a team, wow, you can just in half the time finish the book.

00:52:35.740 --> 00:52:52.749 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. But you know what it's totally worth it. Y'all finish both sides. Okay? So where can people find you and those of you who are watching live right now, or the recording later. I'm going to also show you places that you can find. Roberta.

00:52:53.600 --> 00:53:02.070 Roberta Matuson: Well, they can find me at my website, which you have up, Mattison They can find me on X

00:53:02.090 --> 00:53:24.041 Roberta Matuson: at Mattison, and they can find me on Linkedin, and if they want to connect with me on Linkedin, send me a note, please. I I get a ton of requests, and I don't want to like. Say no. If I don't know why you're connecting with me. So just say you were listening to the to our session today, and that will give you a ticket in.

00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:40.270 Mira Brancu: Excellent, excellent, and that is spelled MATU. SON., and you could also find her book on Amazon suddenly in charge. 3rd edition managing up, managing down, succeeding all around.

00:53:40.874 --> 00:53:42.569 Mira Brancu: And she's there, too.

00:53:42.580 --> 00:53:44.690 Mira Brancu: So folks.

00:53:45.190 --> 00:53:52.850 Mira Brancu: what did you take away from today? And, more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement

00:53:52.930 --> 00:54:04.630 Mira Brancu: this week, based on what you learned from Roberta? Share it with us on Linkedin, at Mira Broncu or Roberta Mattison, or Talkradio Dot, Nyc. So we could cheer you on.

00:54:04.990 --> 00:54:11.930 Mira Brancu: We are also on Facebook, Instagram Twitter twitch all over the place. But Linkedin is where I live

00:54:12.050 --> 00:54:30.779 Mira Brancu: and online, and where I will respond. And as Roberta said she, will be very welcoming if you find her there as well and follow her. In addition to being a live show, we're on apple spotify Amazon, podcast I heart radio, all over the place.

00:54:30.830 --> 00:54:36.630 Mira Brancu: Please help us increase our visibility reach and impact by leaving a review, especially on Apple.

00:54:36.640 --> 00:54:53.940 Mira Brancu: The stuff that we talk about on the show is part of our research-based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that we also teach in our towerscope Leadership Academy, a private coaching and learning community for socially conscious leaders in disrupted learning and innovation industries, looking to make a greater impact.

00:54:54.060 --> 00:55:02.530 Mira Brancu: to learn more and apply, check us, and click on Leadership Academy and remember to look out for the applications

00:55:02.890 --> 00:55:09.579 Mira Brancu: because those are closing on July Okay, thank you to talk radio

00:55:09.710 --> 00:55:11.680 Mira Brancu: dot, NYC. For hosting.

00:55:12.580 --> 00:55:27.830 Mira Brancu: And thank you to Roberta Mattison for joining us today. Do look her book up. Do turn it backwards all around, inside out to read everything that she shared with you

00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:30.490 Mira Brancu: thank you for joining us today.

00:55:30.660 --> 00:55:32.780 Mira Brancu: And Roberta.

00:55:32.990 --> 00:55:43.150 Mira Brancu: I am curious to hear from you in the last 2 min here lightning round the worst case scenario you've seen of managing up.

00:55:43.990 --> 00:55:44.610 Roberta Matuson: Me!

00:55:48.110 --> 00:55:59.270 Mira Brancu: You. And what about the the best case scenario? Anything that we should aspire to to look up to somebody who's done? An amazing job. What do they do? That was so magical.

00:55:59.710 --> 00:56:16.560 Roberta Matuson: Well, one person in particular, one of my clients. She just did an outstanding job of really, you know, developing a relationship with her boss, and she wound up, I'm not exaggerating getting a hundred $1,000 raise

00:56:16.690 --> 00:56:21.963 Roberta Matuson: without a job title and more responsibility, and I thought that was pretty cool.

00:56:22.340 --> 00:56:23.680 Mira Brancu: Wow!

00:56:23.710 --> 00:56:28.126 Mira Brancu: Wow! And anything in particular that she did. That was

00:56:28.930 --> 00:56:30.561 Roberta Matuson: Yeah. She hired me.

00:56:31.886 --> 00:56:32.803 Mira Brancu: Nice.

00:56:33.720 --> 00:56:37.350 Roberta Matuson: And I coached her how to ask for a raise and actually get it.

00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.890 Roberta Matuson: But there is a chapter in the book on that, so.

00:56:39.890 --> 00:56:48.392 Mira Brancu: Hmm, yes, we didn't talk about that at all, but there is a chapter in the book on getting a promotion, and how to do it. And

00:56:49.100 --> 00:56:51.600 Mira Brancu: boy, that is a pretty

00:56:51.700 --> 00:56:53.050 Mira Brancu: strong testament

00:56:53.120 --> 00:56:55.229 Mira Brancu: to your work in your book. Yeah.

00:56:55.230 --> 00:56:56.500 Roberta Matuson: Quick. Yeah.

00:56:56.500 --> 00:56:58.549 Mira Brancu: Now last one last one.

00:56:59.100 --> 00:57:06.129 Mira Brancu: What is the best or worst case scenario that you've seen with managing to the side across the system.

00:57:07.070 --> 00:57:35.350 Roberta Matuson: Well, I've seen people do a really good job of doing that, and it just makes their job so much easier, you know, whenever they need anything. People are pulling for them, and they help them out, and they're much less stressed out than other people who, you know, don't know who to talk to. Nobody will respond to their, you know, slack messages, and you know it's not a great situation there they may be their company's best kept secret, which is definitely something you don't want to be.

00:57:36.050 --> 00:57:44.031 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely best case scenario I have seen is somebody who, you know, technically had.

00:57:44.540 --> 00:57:46.423 Mira Brancu: you know, one of the

00:57:47.200 --> 00:57:57.480 Mira Brancu: lowest roles in terms of like their pay, and how many people they had to report up to and up to, and up to and up to.

00:57:57.530 --> 00:58:24.189 Mira Brancu: and yet they were phenomenal at developing relationships they would reach out to people they would check in, they would say, Hey, I'd like to get to know you. I'd love to learn a little bit more about you. They knew a little bit about each person in this organization where everybody had such a positive feeling that it was an easy shoe in for him to get that next promotion, which he did, and at this point

00:58:24.690 --> 00:58:33.569 Mira Brancu: he's moved up a couple of you know promotions, and probably will be considered for at least one or 2 more, simply

00:58:33.620 --> 00:58:36.149 Mira Brancu: because he cared enough to get to know

00:58:36.260 --> 00:58:37.710 Mira Brancu: the people around him.

00:58:38.260 --> 00:58:38.940 Roberta Matuson: Remarkable.

00:58:38.940 --> 00:58:39.620 Mira Brancu: And did it well.

00:58:39.620 --> 00:58:40.520 Roberta Matuson: Works.

00:58:41.165 --> 00:58:46.339 Mira Brancu: But he did it well, and he did it exceptionally well, it never felt transactional.

00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:49.649 Mira Brancu: So if you want to learn more.

00:58:50.060 --> 00:59:09.829 Mira Brancu: please do read her book. She details things in such a practical, accessible way in the book, and then, if you want to work with her, you know how to contact her and reach out to Roberta Mattison. Thank you all for joining us today, and have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from bye all.

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