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EPISODE SUMMARY:
In the face of work and life challenges, there are three distinct possible long-term outcomes including harm, resilience, and growth. In some cases, people can experience positive change because of overcoming challenges and crises, as expressed in the aphorism “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” Dr. Ken Nowack will help us understand how resilience and growth occur as a set of personality and evidence-based personality traits, lifestyle practices and specific habits/behaviors that characterize such hardy individuals, and the leadership practices that can enhance a trusting, psychologically safe, and a positive mental health culture. Kenneth M. Nowack, Ph.D. is a licensed psychologist and Senior Research Officer of Envisia Learning, Inc. Dr. Nowack received his doctorate degree in Counseling Psychology from the University of California, Los Angeles and has published extensively in the areas of 360-degree feedback, assessment, health psychology, and behavioral medicine. Ken is a member of Daniel Goleman’s Consortium for Research on Emotional Intelligence in Organizations and serves as the outgoing Editor for the APA Consulting Psychology Journal. He is also a Fellow of the American Psychological Association (Division 13: Society of Consulting Psychology).
What differentiates the hardy who grow and flourish under pressure and challenge versus those who appear to endure lasting negative consequences of these same experiences? In this episode, Dr. Ken Nowack will walk us through: 1. Understanding the 3 ways to define resilience 2. Understanding the common trajectories of resilience 3. How to apply leadership practices to enhance a psychologically safe, trusting, and resilience culture in organizations
#resilience #leadership #job burnout #stress #TheHardSkills #leadershipdevelopment
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On this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Brancu is joined by guest Dr. Ken Nowack, licensed psychologist and Senior Research Officer of Envisia Learning. They will be discussing the power of resilience and how it applies to leadership practices to ensure the culture and safety of organizations. To start the conversation, Dr. Brancu asks Dr. Nowack how he got into learning about resilience and focusing a portion of his career on it.
After the first break, we return to Dr. Brancu and Dr. Nowack discussing the difference between hardiness and resilience and what they mean. Dr. Nowack highlights that resilience is an outcome, an individual factor, and a process. Dr. Brancu shares her thoughts on Dr. Nowack’s definition of resilience and provides different examples of what can fall under the category of resilience or meaning-making.
As the conversation progresses, Dr. Brancu and Dr. Nowack finish discussing the numerous trajectories of resilience, and they move on to discuss different ways to build resilience and apply it in the workplace. Dr. Nowack mentions that the biggest way to build resilience is to work on it for a couple of minutes for a long period until you become comfortable and becomes a good habit. Dr. Nowack also explains down-regulation and upper-regulation and how they can pair with positive experiences, whether in a personal or professional setting.
As the episode comes to an end, Dr. Brancu and Dr. Nowack finish their discussion by talking about what leaders can do to build a positive resilience culture in the workplace. Dr. Nowack makes an excellent point about what three factors leaders should monitor in order to have a thriving organization when developing resilience, which can include workload, autonomy independence, and relationships. To learn more about Dr. Nowack’s work, please visit www.envisialearning.com or find him on LinkedIn for any additional questions.
00:00:49.090 --> 00:00:55.310 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills
00:00:55.450 --> 00:01:02.520 Mira Brancu: meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:01:02.710 --> 00:01:17.830 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mirabu. I am a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist, founder of the Towerscope Leadership Academy and associate professor, a psychology today columnist and author of the Millennials Guide to Workplace politics.
00:01:18.050 --> 00:01:28.729 Mira Brancu: and I had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieving. Women navigate their leadership complexities. So thank you for joining us today on our journey
00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:51.089 Mira Brancu: as a reminder. We're in Season 4, where we're focused on navigating complexity and developing your personal and organizational resilience is a big one for navigating today's complexities. And that is a topic of today's show. Now, if some of you have been tracking in season 3 episode 36, which was posted on April 16.th
00:01:51.350 --> 00:02:03.450 Mira Brancu: You might recall we talked with a clinical and business psychologist, Dr. Marine, Marie Ellen Pelletier, about her resilience plan framework for developing your individual resilience.
00:02:03.750 --> 00:02:15.059 Mira Brancu: Today, we're going to take another perspective into what it takes to create a healthy psychological culture to promote mental health and wellbeing with Dr. Ken Noak.
00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:28.319 Mira Brancu: Now, before I introduce you to our guest today, if you haven't yet checked out my newest free resources for saying no setting boundaries and overcoming self sabotaging release rooted in negative societal messages.
00:02:28.540 --> 00:02:36.999 Mira Brancu: You gotta check them out. You can listen to my client. QA. Episode 40 posted on May 14th to get that context.
00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:48.050 Mira Brancu: And if you're interested you can find the Associated resources@gotowerscope.com backslash resources and click on the other free resources.
00:02:48.500 --> 00:03:06.229 Mira Brancu: Alright now, with no further ado, I am super excited to introduce our special guest today. Dr. Ken Noak. Dr. Noak is a licensed psychologist and senior research officer of Invisia. Learning in his Phd. Is in counseling psychology
00:03:06.460 --> 00:03:14.529 Mira Brancu: from us. Ucla, and he has published extensively in the areas of 360 degree feedback assessment.
00:03:14.600 --> 00:03:17.569 Mira Brancu: health psychology and behavioral medicine.
00:03:17.630 --> 00:03:24.300 Mira Brancu: Ken is a member of the Daniel Goldman's Consortium for research on Emotional intelligence and organizations.
00:03:24.320 --> 00:03:43.040 Mira Brancu: and serves as the outgoing editor of the Apa Consulting Psychology Journal. If some of you know my background, I was associate editor when he served as editor, and I do see him as a mentor. So I'm also excited that I get to talk with him even more today, even though we both stepped down.
00:03:43.300 --> 00:04:00.209 Mira Brancu: He is also Fellow of the American Psychological Association of Division 13. Specifically, which is the Society of Consulting Psychology. We're both members. His publish books include from insight to improvement, leveraging 360 degree feedback
00:04:00.390 --> 00:04:01.690 Mira Brancu: clueless.
00:04:01.710 --> 00:04:11.719 Mira Brancu: which is another good book coaching people who just don't get it. I love that title, and he is working on a new book performance, feedback strategies.
00:04:12.100 --> 00:04:23.889 Mira Brancu: driving, successful behavior change, and many, many other endeavors. He writes a lot, so make sure to follow him. If you haven't, and are you ready?
00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:46.950 Mira Brancu: Let's get started. Get out your pens. I definitely have my pen and paper ready. If you you are not the pen and paper kind, take out your device, be ready to take notes that way. Reflect deeply, and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills muscle based on what we learned today. Welcome and have a and great to have you on the show ken.
00:04:47.290 --> 00:05:03.260 Ken Nowack: Well, thank you. I I really appreciate the wonderful introduction. And I probably more and all of you than vice versa. So it was great working with you on the Journal. And I think I cried and told my wife when you told me you needed to step down, that I don't know what I'm gonna do, but great to be on your show.
00:05:03.260 --> 00:05:04.100 Mira Brancu: Oh!
00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:06.990 Ken Nowack: Love this topic as well. So thank you for having me.
00:05:07.410 --> 00:05:20.200 Mira Brancu: The feeling is mutual. I'm glad I left before you left. Okay, so tell me, what got you interested in the topic of resilience. How did you get here?
00:05:20.340 --> 00:05:31.445 Ken Nowack: Yeah, it's really a a personal story that I think I've shared a little bit with you in the past. But this has been a topic that I have been really, really fascinated with probably since I was
00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:36.279 Ken Nowack: even before high school, and it was really the theme of who are the hardy
00:05:36.778 --> 00:05:41.959 Ken Nowack: who are individuals that go through a life crisis, challenge adversity. And
00:05:42.324 --> 00:06:04.340 Ken Nowack: whatever could occur and come out the back end and basically are fairly sturdy. They're fairly strong in terms of mental health and physical wellbeing. And the impetus really comes from my father's story. I'll be brief about it, but when my dad was 8 years old he was actually woken up by his mom and dad in a little town in East Berlin called Ergner.
00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:16.540 Ken Nowack: and he was told that he needed to immediately get dressed, and he wouldn't be able to take anything with him. But they were going to put him on a train, walked into the train station, and that was the last he saw of his parents and
00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:40.389 Ken Nowack: most of his family again, and his journey took him to France, and when he was there there was an organization that still exists today much like Unicef, called O say ose, my French is terrible, so I won't try to pronounce it. That really looked after a small group of stranger kids. They were all German adolescents from my father being one of the youngest at 8 to I think, 15 or 16,
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:52.740 Ken Nowack: and they were hidden. Can you imagine, for 3 years in tiny farmhouses, and were moved quite, quite frequently, almost monthly, to avoid obviously Nazi capture.
00:06:52.740 --> 00:07:12.980 Ken Nowack: and my father was told immediately, German's not gonna be really great to use. So if you can whisper, and better yet, see if he could learn a new language called French. And he recalled his days actually just an ambiguity, not knowing what what became of his parents, his family, his friends.
00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:37.820 Ken Nowack: Filling each day was kind of a a day of just looking for food. He remembers feeling hunger just about every day that he was out there, and he was one of the very, very fortunate ones. That had no sponsor in the United States, but an organization that was able to ship some, but not all of the young adolescents boys and girls to different places in the world, and my father
00:07:38.320 --> 00:08:08.139 Ken Nowack: wound up, coming to the United States through Ellis Island on a long boat ride or a couple of boat rides, and was shunted from there to an orphanage in San Francisco, and he's now about 11 and a half, and told once again, hey, try to learn another language. Try to learn a little bit, because you haven't had much education or schooling for a long period of time, and you're safe now. There's no social support per se. But the orphanage is your new family and your new home.
00:08:08.140 --> 00:08:21.219 Ken Nowack: and my father stayed in touch with quite a number of adolescents that were in the orphanage. Not all of them had the same experience he did, but all of them came from pretty tough childhoods.
00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:46.190 Ken Nowack: and to the day he passed away they remained intimate friends, and it was interesting for me to watch these individuals, and some were incredibly hardy, physically and psychologically, and others really had some scars and long trail of harm that psychologically hurt them. Today they passed away as well. So it really got me on the journey of thinking about what's unique about my father and his experience
00:08:46.190 --> 00:09:11.069 Ken Nowack: that many, many other children. And today we look globally with the geopolitical issues around the globe of similar kinds of experiences. But what kind of potential damage. Can it do so? That was the early impetus for me to really try to study this topic. Even my doctoral dissertation, many, many moons ago was really focused on executive burnout, and why some senior leaders, but you'd think all the resources
00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:30.499 Ken Nowack: in the world would fare really well, and others would just break down so long winded story to share with you more of a personal history of what it is about my father's experience. There was 2 good pieces of news that came out of that I'll share with your audience. One is that was a place that my father met my mother
00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:45.959 Ken Nowack: and my mom didn't have the identical upbringing, but she was a single parent. Her mother couldn't take care of her during the war placed her in the orphanage, stayed in touch with her, and my father and mother fell in love when they were very young, and the the moment they could leave the orphanage
00:09:46.269 --> 00:10:02.069 Ken Nowack: decided to get married and had nothing but that that love kept them together, and the other was, I'll just finish the story, a. A company that came to the orphanage when my father was about 17, and offered every child that wanted to do some work.
00:10:02.070 --> 00:10:07.289 Ken Nowack: an opportunity to work for an organization, and my father was kind of wondering what the catch was.
00:10:07.290 --> 00:10:32.279 Ken Nowack: But there really was no catch. They said, if you work hard, keep your nose clean. We promise you old career paradigm here that you can work until the day you wanna retire, and 36 years later my father left Levi Strauss, an incredibly benevolent and caring company, and probably never looked for another job. So 2 good pieces of my dad's journey that we're uplifting and pretty positive that came out of this childhood experience.
00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:33.030 Ken Nowack: Princess.
00:10:33.890 --> 00:10:38.450 Mira Brancu: Wow! What an unbelievable story!
00:10:40.130 --> 00:10:42.704 Mira Brancu: I have a million thoughts.
00:10:43.520 --> 00:10:51.280 Mira Brancu: I mean, you know. It does remind me of the research that I did back when I, you know, did research on veterans with.
00:10:51.280 --> 00:10:51.680 Ken Nowack: Yeah.
00:10:51.680 --> 00:10:55.769 Mira Brancu: Right and the same. We were facing the same questions.
00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:57.889 Mira Brancu: How can you
00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:02.300 Mira Brancu: have the same experiences during deployment
00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:21.894 Mira Brancu: and exposed to similar kinds of traumatic experiences, but have different trajectories in terms of heartiness or resilience versus developing post, traumatic stress, disorder, or other complications and other physical co morbidities and things like that in addition. And it's it's been
00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:29.840 Mira Brancu: The major question, I think, for lots of you know, our human condition situations right?
00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:46.333 Ken Nowack: Yeah, we're incredibly hardy. And I think as we've looked particularly post Covid, this label resilience has been banned about, and it seems like everyone's talking about and writing about it, and there's certainly a little bit of a myth that it's only defined as
00:11:46.660 --> 00:11:56.460 Ken Nowack: a set of individual traits and qualities and factors, be it genetic, be it environmental, be it lifestyle practices that really shape.
00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:15.499 Ken Nowack: But at the end of day, when we look at this topic of resilience. We've got to kind of put it in the context of a model that there has to be a stressor. It could be minor. It could be, major. It could be multiple adversities that we face. But that's the trigger for anybody that's trying to write about or define this concept of resilience.
00:12:15.500 --> 00:12:40.369 Ken Nowack: and from that we can then look at kind of the individual him or herself in terms of their genetic makeup, their predisposition even some cool research around what's called epigenetics would my father's experience cause some chromosomal DNA damage that perhaps I might pass down or be passed down another generation. And certainly our environmental factors. Be it our social economic status.
00:12:40.530 --> 00:12:50.640 Ken Nowack: What we face in a day-to-day basis in terms of perceived unfairness, incivility, discrimination, institutional racism, or anyisms.
00:12:50.640 --> 00:13:14.560 Ken Nowack: and certainly our social environment, who we hang around with our life partners or family members or community that could provide us that insulation. So it's all in the context, I think of a a model of resilience. But I really wanna spend just just a second mirror if I could kind of dispelling one of the popular myths that 100% of all of us bounce back from adversity and challenge.
00:13:14.770 --> 00:13:38.519 Ken Nowack: And there's certainly some pretty established research evidence that really does suggest. There are some people that are pretty impervious as they say things happen, and they don't suffer. They don't really have some modified, classified diagnostic mental illness. And disorders they're just pretty steady things roll off their back.
00:13:38.520 --> 00:13:59.300 Ken Nowack: and this is often the euphemism of what the popular press is called a resilient individual, and I happen to label this or relabel this heartiness, these are people that just don't have much of a pivot point up or down in terms of moods, emotion, physiology, no matter what. So it seems to strike them.
00:13:59.330 --> 00:14:16.170 Ken Nowack: but that seems to be a large proportion of individuals that we might popularly refer to as resilient. But there's a lot of other trajectories as well that are important, I think, for the listeners to really think about, and one of those I would characterize as a trajectory of harm.
00:14:16.270 --> 00:14:22.060 Ken Nowack: So we think we know that some life events, be it physical, sexual abuse.
00:14:22.451 --> 00:14:37.220 Ken Nowack: School shootings. To use an example, they have a long trail. They leave a long mark, and in your research and work within the military infrastructure. The popularity of post traumatic stress syndrome is one that sometimes is very difficult
00:14:37.564 --> 00:14:56.499 Ken Nowack: to eradicate or to mute and excitingly. Today, some of the new research around psychedelics seems to be at least another modality we have for addressing that. So harm is something that folks don't rebound from the good news is it's not a majority of individuals that will experience those kind of life events.
00:14:56.500 --> 00:15:07.380 Ken Nowack: And again, the modal and the normative response will be people that will recover back to kind of a baseline area. We're pretty resilient. We're pretty adaptable as human beings. Whether it's
00:15:07.699 --> 00:15:33.590 Ken Nowack: loss of a loved one, a divorce from a life partner losing one's job and other kinds of things that occur that can be disappointing even the diagnosis of a a chronic illness or an acute illness such as cancer, heart disease issue that we have to deal with. So I wanna just be really clear that there, there are some multiple and different trajectories around this word resilience that are really important for listeners to understand.
00:15:33.930 --> 00:15:46.129 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah, and we are nearing an add break when we come back from the add break. I'd love to hear a little bit more about is there a difference between hardiness and resilience?
00:15:46.840 --> 00:16:10.059 Mira Brancu: Question I had. And then, continuing down this path of what causes different kinds of trajectories? So let's talk about that when we come back. You are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronku and our guest, Dr. Ca Ken Noak. We air on Tuesdays at 5 pm. Eastern. If you would like to join our online audience and ask questions right now of us.
00:16:10.060 --> 00:16:18.900 Mira Brancu: we can answer in real time. You can find us on Linkedin or Youtube at talk radio, Nyc, and we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:18:30.810 --> 00:18:48.620 Mira Brancu: Welcome back with me, Dr. Mayor Bronku, and the hard skills. And our guest today, Dr. Ken Noak. So we've been talking about resilience and a couple of sort of points to make here number one. You have to have the existence of a stressor, he says.
00:18:49.200 --> 00:19:00.979 Mira Brancu: right, in order to know what your resilience is or your trajectory is. You have to have the presence of a structure from that point forward, though a lot depends on individual disposition.
00:19:01.470 --> 00:19:03.330 Mira Brancu: including epigenetics.
00:19:03.580 --> 00:19:17.099 Mira Brancu: environmental factors, and social factors. Right? And so we started talking about what are those factors? And I love the reassurance he gave us, which is true, because I learned the same thing when I was doing research on.
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:21.250 Mira Brancu: And Pts of veterans like 75% of people
00:19:21.490 --> 00:19:23.020 Mira Brancu: have a positive
00:19:23.030 --> 00:19:24.450 Mira Brancu: trajectory
00:19:24.710 --> 00:19:30.310 Mira Brancu: of not developing you know any long term
00:19:31.043 --> 00:19:32.229 Mira Brancu: adversive effects.
00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:36.639 Mira Brancu: From most situations. There are some situations that
00:19:36.650 --> 00:19:44.409 Mira Brancu: kind of lend themselves because of the level of harm or adversity, or length of time or multiple experiences over time
00:19:44.530 --> 00:19:48.260 Mira Brancu: which we'll get into. But the more majority of people
00:19:48.620 --> 00:19:52.130 Mira Brancu: end up being fairly hardy and resilient, which
00:19:52.530 --> 00:19:55.490 Mira Brancu: I think it's very reassuring. Just to think about
00:19:55.530 --> 00:19:59.469 Mira Brancu: that. We can go through a lot as humans. It's scary.
00:19:59.870 --> 00:20:03.759 Mira Brancu: but we can come out of it in most things. Okay.
00:20:04.030 --> 00:20:19.279 Mira Brancu: But there are factors that can impact some of us. And that's really important to know. So before we get into those, though. You started using hardiness and resiliency. And I started wondering, is there a difference? Do you see a difference in terms of definition, or what they need?
00:20:20.010 --> 00:20:43.079 Ken Nowack: Yeah, I I referred to those that are fairly stable don't really react. There's not a wide gap between an event, a trigger, if you will, and a big change in mental health. Well, being mood, behavior is a kind of a hearty individual. So it's my label of, I think what the popular press is really talked about is, everyone rebounds and they're resilient.
00:20:43.130 --> 00:21:09.840 Ken Nowack: And this is some of the confusion. I think, as we read popular articles or listen to people speak? Is, I really want to PIN people down and define. What do you mean by this label resilient? And I've been referring to a resilience more as an outcome. What is your state? At any point in time that we can measure against psychologically, physically, physiologically, and that's probably the most widely accepted way of defining resilience is to look at the terminal
00:21:09.860 --> 00:21:25.400 Ken Nowack: follow up of something's happened in your life at work away from work. And how are you faring? But we could just as easily define resilience as a set of individual factors. That seems to be the most popular non
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:51.700 Ken Nowack: academic way of looking at resilience. If if you'd only practice mindfulness, meditation, if you'd work out, if you're connected socially, if you sleep well if you eat heart healthy. Gosh! The magic here is that it'll mitigate and really minimize the stress response. All true. But that's looking at resilience from a very different lens, which is individual factors that impact the impact of an event on the mind body.
00:21:51.700 --> 00:22:18.779 Ken Nowack: And we could also finally look at resilience as a process. So one of the reasons, I think humans are so adaptable as a model that is well known. But I've kind of tailored and customized is looking at. How do we lead leaders and employees through work and life changes and view resilience as a lens around a process that really contains 3 steps, and the 1st is, do you understand what's going on?
00:22:18.780 --> 00:22:40.780 Ken Nowack: And that's where we may seek some counseling, some support, even some therapy. Find a mentor, a coach, a life partner or a community to get feedback and really understand what is happening at a behavioral, emotional physical level. And the second stage is developing skills for dealing with that coping. And this is where all the lifestyle practices and
00:22:40.780 --> 00:23:03.610 Ken Nowack: things that are quite popular today, we can embed into our daily routine what we say to ourselves, giving gratitude, practicing forgiveness, all the things that make sense from a heart healthy and from a longevity perspective. And finally, I didn't mention another trajectory that you're well aware of. It's the opposite of post traumatic stress, and psychologists and researchers call it
00:23:03.610 --> 00:23:17.639 Ken Nowack: post traumatic growth. And I actually have some of my own research, working with the auto immune group that has multiple sclerosis. And about a 7 year program we've been running for 12 weeks with newly diagnosed individuals.
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:38.720 Ken Nowack: we find a pretty large percent would never vote and sign up to get Ms multiple sclerosis but they actually grow through the disease. It's not gonna kill them, most likely, and not many of them. But it's a lifelong, debilitating, unpredictable snowflake disorder that can really interfere with the quality and independence of life.
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:58.010 Ken Nowack: But a large percentage can work on themselves, and walking through this process grow. And they redefine who's important in life, what's important in life and puts life in a different frame. That's more meaningful. So this this jingle jangle around the topic of resilience is also quite interesting to me, and
00:23:58.010 --> 00:24:04.429 Ken Nowack: I'm as confused as others when I'm reading an article or listening to people speak of. What do you mean by this particular label?
00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:08.370 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I really like the thinking about it in
00:24:08.850 --> 00:24:12.012 Mira Brancu: different ways, but especially recognizing that.
00:24:13.260 --> 00:24:15.409 Mira Brancu: yes, it could be
00:24:15.560 --> 00:24:17.190 Mira Brancu: an individual
00:24:17.260 --> 00:24:18.180 Mira Brancu: sort of
00:24:19.310 --> 00:24:21.370 Mira Brancu: outcome or
00:24:21.871 --> 00:24:25.289 Mira Brancu: you know, hardiness is is more about like, you know.
00:24:25.490 --> 00:24:27.100 Mira Brancu: stable factors.
00:24:27.150 --> 00:24:28.220 Mira Brancu: But
00:24:28.260 --> 00:24:30.190 Mira Brancu: there is an aspect of it
00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:34.329 Mira Brancu: that where you can develop and grow.
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.789 Mira Brancu: And you can have post even post traumatic growth.
00:24:38.327 --> 00:24:46.039 Mira Brancu: You can sort of develop skills over time. There's there are opportunities that we have so that we don't feel like
00:24:46.866 --> 00:24:48.240 Mira Brancu: we're stuck.
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.480 Mira Brancu: and this is going to be it.
00:24:50.810 --> 00:25:12.839 Ken Nowack: Yeah. And one other point I'd raise, too, is, these trajectories might differ for any individual with different kinds of events and situations. So perhaps some divorcing a life partner maybe for some quite free and independent anticipating death of a loved one kind of anticipatory, anticipatory grief. Has a different journey as well.
00:25:12.840 --> 00:25:25.380 Ken Nowack: Sudden events may again trigger a different trajectory. So we're not stuck with just one and not all work, life, events, and challenges that we have. We're on the same course. We're on the same path.
00:25:25.470 --> 00:25:37.279 Ken Nowack: So I think intuitively, we realize that. But again, I think there's a lot of popular press that we're sort of doomed to follow whatever our predisposition is, and there's not a lot of clinical and research evidence to support that.
00:25:37.570 --> 00:25:40.597 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And I think, I I really like
00:25:41.430 --> 00:25:45.680 Mira Brancu: When you were talking about kind of a a few steps.
00:25:45.890 --> 00:25:46.420 Ken Nowack: Hmm.
00:25:46.420 --> 00:25:47.410 Mira Brancu: That
00:25:47.994 --> 00:26:02.379 Mira Brancu: help even leaders who are going through the process of trying to become more resilient. And the 1st is, do you understand what's going on, and I'll I'll put another name to it is meaning making that is massive. We.
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:07.210 Mira Brancu: I think what people don't realize is as as you were describing, like
00:26:07.260 --> 00:26:15.350 Mira Brancu: the experience of divorce, and how different people take different meaning from it and based on what what's happened.
00:26:15.530 --> 00:26:20.490 Mira Brancu: that when when we were doing research in post traumatic
00:26:21.424 --> 00:26:25.239 Mira Brancu: you know. Ptsd post traumatic stress disorder.
00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:26.840 Mira Brancu: When
00:26:27.490 --> 00:26:30.770 Mira Brancu: we when I was talking with different patients.
00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:37.189 Mira Brancu: it wasn't always. In fact, it was rarely the actual event.
00:26:37.470 --> 00:26:37.880 Ken Nowack: Hmm.
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.240 Mira Brancu: That affected them deeply. It was
00:26:40.280 --> 00:26:55.883 Mira Brancu: what happened immediately before or immediately after that caused them to take a specific meaning from it, like, I wish I had done this, and I didn't, and now I'll never! I'll always regret it. I'll never forget it. I'll always feel angry about it.
00:26:56.380 --> 00:27:00.810 Mira Brancu: I wish I could undo this. I wish that person hadn't, you know. So there was
00:27:01.291 --> 00:27:08.670 Mira Brancu: pieces about the experience around the event that when you take certain meaning from it.
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:18.760 Mira Brancu: It translates into certain outcomes. And it could be positive outcomes, or it could be negative outcomes. And but the meaning making
00:27:19.060 --> 00:27:20.570 Mira Brancu: you can revisit.
00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:22.509 Mira Brancu: and you can
00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:27.559 Mira Brancu: explore and extract more meaning from what happened.
00:27:27.610 --> 00:27:35.750 Mira Brancu: And that can change how you might view a certain situation. And that's just, you know, a very brief
00:27:36.373 --> 00:27:50.140 Mira Brancu: intervention in a very specific way. But I think there, there's an an important piece of that meaning making. And I I go back to even the experience your dad has and I kept. I keep wondering
00:27:50.250 --> 00:27:58.819 Mira Brancu: about the meaning that he extracted from it. I i i thought about. I was thinking about Victor Franklin's man. Search for meaning.
00:27:58.820 --> 00:27:59.200 Ken Nowack: Thank you.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.890 Mira Brancu: Describing your father's experience. And
00:28:02.355 --> 00:28:03.629 Mira Brancu: you know that
00:28:04.745 --> 00:28:07.019 Mira Brancu: meaning for humans is such
00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:08.710 Mira Brancu: such an important aspect.
00:28:09.270 --> 00:28:37.379 Ken Nowack: Well even build in on that mayor, I think again, as we're getting close to those of us that follow the Olympic games. Coming up in Paris. Be pretty cool to go there, although my wife Denise is like no, not a good time to travel to Paris, even though we love the city. But in 1992 there was this really cool study that looked at medal winners in the Olympics, and what they found is bronze medal winners were actually happier, dramatically happier than silver medal winners.
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:41.169 Ken Nowack: So how we look at things to just win a medal
00:28:41.170 --> 00:29:04.429 Ken Nowack: right? To be the elite of the lead brought tremendous satisfaction, but to not quite make it as a redefinition of how we view the lenses of being competitive. What we do in life. So just that small example of Olympic games is a pretty good illustration that our attributions to successes and failure can really shape how it impacts our mind, body.
00:29:04.930 --> 00:29:12.170 Mira Brancu: Absolutely, absolutely so based on that. We're reaching another ad break. And I am curious
00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:17.830 Mira Brancu: to learn a little bit more about how we can mitigate trajectories.
00:29:18.260 --> 00:29:19.977 Mira Brancu: That might
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:29.090 Mira Brancu: in 1 point in time cause more harm or damage, or adversity versus not can we admit it mitigate? And or
00:29:29.110 --> 00:29:33.720 Mira Brancu: how do we as individuals? And then also as organizations.
00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:34.790 Mira Brancu: kind of
00:29:34.970 --> 00:29:41.470 Mira Brancu: move into this kind of development of resiliency over time? What does it take? So
00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:51.679 Mira Brancu: we're nearing an outbreak. We'll learn all about that when we come back. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Broncou and our guest, Dr. Ken Noak, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:31:52.670 --> 00:31:57.530 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest, Dr. Ken Noak.
00:31:57.550 --> 00:32:03.499 Mira Brancu: All right, after all of this talk of about different trajectories about resiliency.
00:32:03.550 --> 00:32:06.359 Mira Brancu: I'm sure at this point people are dying to know.
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:10.900 Mira Brancu: How do I up my game with resiliency? How do I become
00:32:11.568 --> 00:32:18.270 Mira Brancu: more resilient at work. How do I help my organization become a more resilient organization? And
00:32:18.510 --> 00:32:23.570 Mira Brancu: can you you study this all the time? So I'm especially curious about evidence based
00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:27.310 Mira Brancu: practices, behaviors, things like that.
00:32:27.930 --> 00:32:47.900 Ken Nowack: Yeah, I I love this because Nike, the company, the Peril Company Shoe Company has a wonderful slogan. So if I were to suggest that. Some of the strongest predictors of resilience and long term health and mobile being, or things like getting adequate rest and sleep, eating well, physically, working out
00:32:48.251 --> 00:33:05.450 Ken Nowack: socially connecting, we'd all nod and say, Oh, gosh! Every article, everyone I hear Pontis pontificates on just you know, practice mindfulness, meditation, and that's a way of reversing the sympathetic nervous system and really helping us to take our foot off the break.
00:33:05.898 --> 00:33:26.409 Ken Nowack: doing things like detaching and then recharging our batteries emotionally, physically, spiritually, we'd all not. We'd all say, yep, that makes sense, and the hard truth is getting started is something. We talk a lot about. Intentions are actually terrible predictors of long term, successful behavior change.
00:33:26.410 --> 00:33:35.770 Ken Nowack: And if I were to ask everyone listening today to take out that pen or pencil that mirrored, mentioned, and write your signature, your name, with your nondominant hand.
00:33:35.770 --> 00:34:00.720 Ken Nowack: and just feel what that's like for most of us unless you're ambidextrous. Takes a long time. We have to think we have to concentrate. And the output of that is probably for a lot of us as my colleagues in the Uk. My employees there say it's just rubbish. The quality is not really good. But if I can get you to do that 8 or 9 times in a row, and I could peer into your brain using the most sophisticated scans or transfer
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:21.210 Ken Nowack: cranial magnetic imagery. We'd actually begin to see neurons starting to fire and wire together doesn't mean you're any good at signing your name with your non-dominant hand. But if I could get you to do that on average, every day for about 60 to 90 days, you would begin to develop automaticity and a comfortability with doing it.
00:34:21.210 --> 00:34:43.559 Ken Nowack: So the biggest issue with resilience is not knowing what to do. It's helping all of us to create habits that will help sustain 3 things. One is sort of down regulating the stress spider flight response. All the things I've mentioned kind of up regulating, if you will, things that give us pleasure, and the Mazo Seattle reward system
00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:51.319 Ken Nowack: as one that if we have a great social interaction with a friend, a colleague, a family member, we know what it feels like
00:34:51.320 --> 00:35:20.500 Ken Nowack: if we experience some pain forward and just doing something that's kind, it makes us feel really great, and that sort of holds on for a while. And then there's things we can do that sort of mute what's called the default node network. And these are things probably like meditation that don't actually decrease. It actually increases the default mode network. But there's a whole host of things we can do. So again long, windedly. It's not about telling you what to do. It's getting you to
00:35:20.540 --> 00:35:26.000 Ken Nowack: start something and do it long and hard enough until it becomes automatic. Kind of a habit.
00:35:26.350 --> 00:35:40.700 Mira Brancu: Hmm, let's take each of these separately, just so that people can imagine what it's like to do. This. If we take, let's take down regulating 1st or autonomic negative responses. Right? 1st of all.
00:35:41.801 --> 00:35:49.319 Mira Brancu: how do we? What? What are we looking for? What are the symptoms that we're we need to sort of target them.
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:53.130 Mira Brancu: And then what does it look like to consistently
00:35:53.190 --> 00:35:56.340 Mira Brancu: practice down regulating for 60 to 90 days.
00:35:56.730 --> 00:36:20.089 Ken Nowack: Yeah. So one example is, and this is something. If you're a leader, or anybody in in the organization can try to do is identifying what people have a passion to do and what they enjoy doing that purpose and meeting for them. And Marty Seligman at the University of Pennsylvania has some really cool peer reviewed articles on what he calls identifying and deploying your signature strengths?
00:36:20.090 --> 00:36:46.217 Ken Nowack: It's just reaching out and say, Hey, Merrill, what do you enjoy doing? What can you do at work that's more meaningful. And importantly, when you create those boundaries of heading away from work, and hopefully turning off the electronic devices that we're tethered to in the evening and weekends on holidays but the more we practice and put into place things we enjoy, the little things tend to be muted, we decelerate. We're more rapidly
00:36:46.540 --> 00:36:55.490 Ken Nowack: defusing those stressful situations. And out of all stressors. You probably know, too, that interpersonal conflict interpersonal stress
00:36:55.821 --> 00:37:23.630 Ken Nowack: causes the fight or flight or cortisol response to actually explode about 50% more than non interpersonal types of interactions, and it takes some about 50% longer to go back to baseline. So we could try to create a habit, a ritual if you will, on weekly or on a daily or weekend basis to do things that we really get off on. We really enjoy as a way of mitigating the battery being discharged during during the week.
00:37:23.860 --> 00:37:27.309 Mira Brancu: Hmm! So if I'm hearing correctly, what you're actually saying is
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:32.029 Mira Brancu: that we should be pairing every single time
00:37:32.250 --> 00:37:42.920 Mira Brancu: the down regulation with the up regulation. The up regulation of engaging, leaning into pleasurable positive experiences
00:37:43.230 --> 00:37:50.110 Mira Brancu: should be always paired with a down regulation of trying to respond to the negative reactions. Is that right.
00:37:50.110 --> 00:38:15.020 Ken Nowack: Well, that would be the ideal. I I have a hard time getting people to do any one thing over any period of time we could engineer, you know, facilitating a greater social climate and environment, and some of us would will do that through spirituality or our religious affinity or community that we're involved in. And others, again, we'll just find activities that we find individually or in small groups and teams so really fulfill.
00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:39.870 Ken Nowack: So those kind of upregulate the positive and all the things we've read about eat well, exercise, etc. Practice breathing those down right, regulate the parasympathetic network. So again, if I could add one more thing, actually, I would vote for sleep. I'm learning of research, a lot of area of this particular impairment what I call the living drunks that are out there
00:38:39.870 --> 00:39:03.709 Ken Nowack: with presenteeism, whether it's online listening to a show like we're doing today or you're live and in person with another human being that we often bring our our bodies to work. But our mind, our spare energy, really isn't there. So if we can get you to do more than one thing that would be great. But, like, I say, the challenges doing one thing, doing it well. And this Nike keep saying, just do it.
00:39:04.100 --> 00:39:09.770 Mira Brancu: Yeah, as as somebody who used to do sleep. Psychology.
00:39:09.770 --> 00:39:10.200 Ken Nowack: Yeah.
00:39:10.200 --> 00:39:25.069 Mira Brancu: I'm obsess. Not only am I obsessed with sleep and everybody getting sleep, including me, and you not bothering me when I'm trying to get to sleep. But I we instilled it in our kids like we were obsessed with them getting sleep. And at this point they're probably one of the
00:39:25.290 --> 00:39:33.779 Mira Brancu: only adolescents in their high school that actually go to sleep at 10, and Watt, too, and get up at a reasonable hour like
00:39:33.980 --> 00:39:34.650 Mira Brancu: at
00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:42.000 Mira Brancu: 7 or 8 in the morning instead of in the middle of the afternoon, and it's probably because we were obsessed. But
00:39:42.090 --> 00:39:45.220 Mira Brancu: I think there's the correlation there between.
00:39:45.610 --> 00:39:58.800 Mira Brancu: You know their kind of mental health and resiliency stability. And the fact that they actually get good sleep as compared to many kids, their age. So anyway, you're speaking to the choir. I'm just saying you're.
00:39:58.800 --> 00:39:59.300 Ken Nowack: Yeah.
00:39:59.300 --> 00:40:00.500 Mira Brancu: Inquire about sleep.
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:28.610 Ken Nowack: Sleep show, but lack of sleep not only causes chronic inflammatory responses, which is the mediation between, you know, health and wellbeing and poor sleep. But we also know it impairs interpersonal functioning. So I have one of the silliest peer reviewed academic articles that was published that looked at 104 senior leaders, and we use a subjective measure of quality and quantity of sleep. But we use an objective measure of interpersonal confidence.
00:40:28.610 --> 00:40:34.699 Ken Nowack: and 360 degree feedback tools rated by direct reports and one's boss.
00:40:34.700 --> 00:40:58.070 Ken Nowack: And we told the office we found the obvious that when we're sleep deprived. We're cranky. We like social and emotional intelligence. So it's a big area that again, I can't. You and I can't really go into people bedroom bedrooms at night, and do much to impair it. But interestingly, it's becoming one of the most predictive you know, resilience factors that we should all tune into.
00:40:58.070 --> 00:41:11.483 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. It also affects weight gain. It's and for women, by the way, it's related to decreased menopause outcomes and symptoms. So just saying it's the answer to everything.
00:41:11.890 --> 00:41:13.949 Ken Nowack: Maybe we'll do a sleep show in the future.
00:41:13.950 --> 00:41:16.341 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, right right now.
00:41:16.830 --> 00:41:19.000 Mira Brancu: the way that you were describing
00:41:19.310 --> 00:41:30.309 Mira Brancu: this pairing of down regulation and up regulation with positive experiences. The ideal reminds me actually of a coaching call I had recently, where
00:41:30.570 --> 00:41:34.089 Mira Brancu: somebody was sharing with me how
00:41:34.608 --> 00:41:37.000 Mira Brancu: a a strength of hers
00:41:37.050 --> 00:41:49.669 Mira Brancu: was that she can be incredibly, intensively focused when she needs to do like very what most of us would consider to be very arduous, exhausting writing work.
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:50.880 Mira Brancu: and
00:41:51.100 --> 00:42:04.820 Mira Brancu: on the days that she has set an intention to do that work. If she gets any interruptions whatsoever, she becomes irritable, and she snaps, and she feels bad because it's not aligned to her value of being a kind person.
00:42:05.050 --> 00:42:10.019 Mira Brancu: And so we started exploring. How can you lean into
00:42:10.120 --> 00:42:16.840 Mira Brancu: the strength that you bring on the days that you want to be really engaged in the work that you do
00:42:17.010 --> 00:42:19.720 Mira Brancu: without allowing yourself
00:42:19.870 --> 00:42:39.189 Mira Brancu: to be interrupted in that way that throws you off and makes you not not be the best person that you can be on that day. And so it for her. It was about separating and not allowing herself to respond on days when she was so engaged in the thing that she was into.
00:42:39.230 --> 00:42:41.189 Mira Brancu: that it would take her off her game.
00:42:41.330 --> 00:43:01.880 Mira Brancu: And it's a matter of separating some of these habits and these habits have become so ingrained. It's like, you know, checking our email or responding when somebody knocks on the door, or you know you feel like we need to re be responsive all the time. But, sometimes we have to really reevaluate our habits
00:43:01.940 --> 00:43:13.159 Mira Brancu: and determine. Are these still serving me well, or who are they serving? And if if they're not serving me well, is there a way to separate or repair, or these kinds of things right?
00:43:13.410 --> 00:43:31.070 Ken Nowack: Yeah, 2 thoughts. One is. I think what you're describing is a little bit of what's been talked about called flow, that we're in that particular line of just feeling as if we're enjoying what we're doing. We're tuning out the environments. Not a lot of effort. But when we're interrupted, it disrupts that flow that we're in.
00:43:31.070 --> 00:43:51.909 Ken Nowack: and the other comes from research from Theresa, Amma Bill and her colleague at Harvard that did a really interesting diary study a few years ago, asking employees what constitutes the best day at work, and the significant finding was that when people reported making progress, whatever was on their plate. They rated it a great day.
00:43:51.910 --> 00:44:11.179 Ken Nowack: So we get hijacked. And things occur that interrupt our ability to get things done. Lack of resources interpersonal kinds of conflicts whatever it is that hijacks our day, we report subjectively that this was less satisfying. So I think you're kind of describing 2 aspects that are quite fascinating.
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:13.120 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah.
00:44:13.470 --> 00:44:40.319 Mira Brancu: So we're reaching another ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronku and our guest, Dr. Ken Noak when we return. Ken, I would really like to take this now to a much higher level, which is the organizational level. How do leaders take these concepts, but then create healthy psychologically. You know, positive workplaces with positive, healthy mental health and wellbeing.
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.730 Mira Brancu: We're gonna explore that when we come back
00:44:44.680 --> 00:44:46.740 Mira Brancu: we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:56.630 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronku and our guest today, Dr. Ken Noak.
00:46:56.780 --> 00:47:05.209 Mira Brancu: we have been talking a lot about resiliency, but especially at the individual level and different trajectories, and how we can mitigate
00:47:05.645 --> 00:47:07.720 Mira Brancu: some of the impact of
00:47:08.395 --> 00:47:11.520 Mira Brancu: highly stressful and adversity experiences
00:47:11.660 --> 00:47:27.920 Mira Brancu: and come out stronger and stronger over time, and a lot of that has to do with setting habits. And I love that Ken said 60 to 90 days, because there's some Pop psychology stuff out there. Folks that say 21 days.
00:47:27.950 --> 00:47:29.740 Mira Brancu: The research shows
00:47:30.030 --> 00:47:55.860 Mira Brancu: that it's an average of 60 ish to 90 ish days. So don't get frustrated after 21 days. The thing doesn't stick. Just keep holding onto it for 2 to 3 months. Okay, but it's probably not that easy when it comes to the organizational level. Right? It's not just one person you wanna see. You know, developing strong resilience and mental health and wellbeing. It's an entire organization. What
00:47:55.960 --> 00:47:59.539 Mira Brancu: what do leaders do then, when they wanna focus on this ken.
00:48:00.240 --> 00:48:22.649 Ken Nowack: Yeah, it's a great question. I think there's so much again pointed to what individual coping and managing can do. And and obviously, if we're not well, whatever that might mean in a mental physical se state. We're looking at techniques and strategies individually for recovering and detaching and really carrying those 2 together to overcome the ill being that we have
00:48:22.650 --> 00:48:34.209 Ken Nowack: all the things that we've read about and talked about. We're more preventive, of course, like lifestyle practices. And we could move into that area of flourishing, doing things to promote wellbeing at an individual level.
00:48:34.230 --> 00:48:58.369 Ken Nowack: But we find that organizational stressors and organizational policies. Procedures, toxic leaders, tend to contribute obviously to a climate where people aren't flourishing. They're not doing well. And the top 3 kind of drivers, if you will. That should be monitored and tracked and explored by organizations are workload. Just what's on our plate.
00:48:58.370 --> 00:49:25.500 Ken Nowack: and I think all of us can relate to the changes and careering the boundaries, the definition of work since Covid that's magnified and accelerated. But there isn't anyone I speak to today that says that I don't have enough to do so. It seems like we're all a little bit overwhelmed. And secondly, it's the autonomy and independence that we have when we provide a human driver of enabling all of us to have more decision control, more independence.
00:49:25.858 --> 00:49:50.230 Ken Nowack: It's 1 of those things we find, and a lot of theories on work and satisfaction. Well, being really can be beneficial. So the more leaders don't micromanage the more, they will actually participatively lead. And don't use a fall. Participative style of asking people's input when your minds already made up empowering people to make decisions goes a long way of creating
00:49:50.430 --> 00:50:14.360 Ken Nowack: a climate where people can flourish and finally relationships the interpersonal interactions that occur. Great leaders build great teams, and I wish more measurement and evaluation of leadership had to do with the effectiveness and the output of the teams that folks manage at a leadership level, and far too often, I think we look at individual leadership skills and abilities.
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:31.009 Ken Nowack: Nothing wrong with that. But the metrics that I really think are critical. If you want to build a climate and culture of wellbeing is to look at the functioning of teams. So at an organizational level, I know there's been a lot of research saying that most wellness programs
00:50:31.010 --> 00:50:57.760 Ken Nowack: may not have quite the payoff and return on investment. But again, I I target more of what leadership practices are all about. There's a organization international organization called Ukg, that did a really interesting survey that found that 69% of employees said that their interaction with their manager is equal to, or even more important than, interactions with, family friends, life, partner.
00:50:58.120 --> 00:51:23.080 Ken Nowack: So toxic leaders and leadership practices is a key area that we like to focus in our research and practice to say, at the end of the day. We can address what leaders do we can address who gets promoted? What the succession looks like, and how do we on board and reinforce, not just technical knowledge and experience, but equally wait the intrapersonal conference.
00:51:23.080 --> 00:51:28.610 Ken Nowack: the emotional social competence of those in leadership and project management roles.
00:51:29.050 --> 00:51:31.660 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that's really powerful.
00:51:31.900 --> 00:51:32.950 Mira Brancu: The
00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:37.380 Mira Brancu: research that I'm thinking about when you describe that is
00:51:38.139 --> 00:51:43.169 Mira Brancu: research. That was done. I forgot now by whom but it was
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:49.890 Mira Brancu: again in in the world of trauma. If you have just one person in your life
00:51:50.180 --> 00:51:51.720 Mira Brancu: who cared about you
00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:53.469 Mira Brancu: during that time
00:51:53.650 --> 00:51:58.250 Mira Brancu: that the traumatic event, or events or series of experiences happen.
00:51:58.530 --> 00:52:09.430 Mira Brancu: you have a better trajectory in terms of your outcome. Just one it all it takes is one person. Now imagine, if that one person is your boss or a caretaker.
00:52:09.430 --> 00:52:10.750 Ken Nowack: Yeah, yeah.
00:52:10.750 --> 00:52:14.970 Mira Brancu: Right. That's the power. I don't think that people realize
00:52:15.160 --> 00:52:17.659 Mira Brancu: like you were saying, the impact of
00:52:17.720 --> 00:52:29.750 Mira Brancu: one manager can make a difference on an entire team of people. And if every manager can do that, the impact that it has on the organization. So if you couldn't change one thing.
00:52:30.030 --> 00:52:31.319 Mira Brancu: it would be
00:52:31.710 --> 00:52:40.250 Mira Brancu: helping managers become better team leaders and recognize the power of their effect on other people.
00:52:41.060 --> 00:52:52.740 Ken Nowack: Well, research from Gallup. They have a proprietary engagement survey called the Gallup, Q. 12, and one of the kind of interesting that maybe odd items they ask is, do you have a best friend at work?
00:52:52.830 --> 00:52:53.960 Ken Nowack: And I don't think I go to.
00:52:54.154 --> 00:52:54.349 Mira Brancu: Work.
00:52:54.350 --> 00:53:21.420 Ken Nowack: Looking for a best friend. But that connection, that sense of belonging, that being treated in a civil and fair and unbiased manner goes a long way of staying healthy, particularly when workload is high and resources are low. And I'm the only one holding down the fort, so I think your point is a really good one, that we're wired as social creatures, and when we're lonely and alone, it's detrimental, not just to our mental health.
00:53:21.420 --> 00:53:24.710 Ken Nowack: but our physical health and predictions of longevity.
00:53:24.710 --> 00:53:47.880 Ken Nowack: So leaders do create, set a tone of a climate and a culture by what they do, their own moods, their own emotions rub off. We call emotional contagion. So it's just one of the focal points. And our consulting work and practice of can't change everything in an organization, but I can help facilitate enhance leadership practices to do things that will make people feel
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:56.809 Ken Nowack: as if they belong as if they're heard as if they feel psychologically safe. It goes a long way. Given all the tremendous stress factors that exist.
00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:59.390 Mira Brancu: Absolutely and just to close the loop
00:53:59.510 --> 00:54:04.019 Mira Brancu: back to your father's experiences. You know he
00:54:04.100 --> 00:54:15.699 Mira Brancu: found a connection in his orphanage and married that connection, and he found unbelievable support in an organization and became loyal to that organization.
00:54:15.750 --> 00:54:20.690 Mira Brancu: Right like that, is a perfect example of what happens when
00:54:20.910 --> 00:54:34.019 Mira Brancu: you are in a position to offer that to somebody else. And what happens to them and their trajectory despite all of what they've gone through and their their trajectory right? So as we close out today.
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:38.210 Mira Brancu: If people want to learn more about your work, where they where can they go?
00:54:38.630 --> 00:54:59.369 Ken Nowack: Yeah, go visit our website and visual learning.com ENVI, sia.com you could certainly Google, some of my research. In a wide variety of academic journals. And Mira, if people want to reach out to me through Linkedin, connect with me ask me some questions. I'm always wanted to try to be supportive and helpful.
00:54:59.736 --> 00:55:15.529 Ken Nowack: I love this topic. It's a a bit of a mystifying definition of what resilience is. And we'll keep learning new things. What I'm sharing with you today, probably in 5, 1015 years will definitely be incorrect, might be completely reversed, as well.
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:21.680 Mira Brancu: Awesome, and I think I've been Miss pronouncing your company's name. Is it? Envision.
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:23.509 Ken Nowack: Yeah, typically in business.
00:55:23.510 --> 00:55:24.830 Mira Brancu: And Bisha, yeah.
00:55:24.830 --> 00:55:25.350 Ken Nowack: That makes.
00:55:25.350 --> 00:55:30.839 Mira Brancu: Makes sense that makes sense. Here I am saying, envisia alright.
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:32.422 Ken Nowack: It sounds good.
00:55:32.950 --> 00:55:57.689 Mira Brancu: Audience, what did you take away? And more importantly, what is the one small change you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Ken. I know my one small change is calling his company and visia instead of invisia. Anyway, what did you learn? What will you change? What will you implement in 60 to 90 days? Share with us on Linkedin at Mira
00:55:57.690 --> 00:56:08.800 Mira Brancu: or Kenok, on Linkedin. That's where we live online. You could also find talk, radio, dot, Nyc on Linkedin, Twitter, twitch, Facebook, Instagram everywhere.
00:56:08.910 --> 00:56:22.409 Mira Brancu: In addition to being a live show, where on apple podcasts and spotify, please go subscribe to the podcast leave a review and share with others to help us increase our visibility, reach and impact
00:56:22.620 --> 00:56:38.820 Mira Brancu: the stuff we talk about on this show is part of our research based strategic leadership, pathway model that we teach in our tower Scope, Leadership Academy, which is a private coaching and learning community for socially conscious leaders in healthcare, academia, tech and stem industries, looking to make a greater impact.
00:56:39.550 --> 00:56:45.479 Mira Brancu: to learn more and apply, check us out at go tower, scope.com and click on Leadership Academy.
00:56:45.580 --> 00:56:57.013 Mira Brancu: Thank you. Talk radio, dot. Nyc for hosting. I'm Dr. Mira Bronku, the host of your hardship skills show and thank you for joining us today. Dr. Ken Noak. We love having you on.
00:56:57.680 --> 00:56:58.490 Ken Nowack: Thank you.
00:56:59.130 --> 00:57:02.739 Mira Brancu: Have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from everyone.
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