The Hard Skills

Tuesday, January 16, 2024
Facebook Live Video from 2024/01/16-From Margin to Mattering: How to Lead Neurodivergently

Facebook Live Video from 2024/01/16-From Margin to Mattering: How to Lead Neurodivergently


2024/01/16-From Margin to Mattering: How to Lead Neurodivergently

[NEW EPISODE] From Margin to Mattering: How to Lead Neurodivergently

Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)                              


Listeners will learn how leaders from marginalized groups - specifically, neurodivergent leaders - can change the old "rules" and lead authentically, without assimilating. 

Ludmila N. Praslova, Ph.D., SHRM-SCP, is the author of “The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work” (Berrett-Koehler Publishers, April 2024).  A Professor of Graduate Industrial-Organizational Psychology and Accreditation Liaison Officer at Vanguard University of Southern California, she is a global inclusive talent strategy expert with extensive experience in global diversity and neurodiversity. Her current consulting is focused on creating organizational systems for inclusion and wellbeing and providing neuroinclusion training and support to organizations such as Amazon, Bank of America, IBM, MIT, and Affinity Health.  She regularly writes for Harvard Business Review, Fast Company and Psychology Today, and is the first person to have published in Harvard Business Review from an autistic perspective.

Neurodivergent people are marginalized by society and often excluded in the workplace. And yet, there are many people who look for authenticity and fresh solutions to problems "the old leadership" has not solved. We'll discuss how neurodivergent leadership can be an answer to the need for authenticity and fresh solutions.


#neurodiversity #ActuallyAutistic #canarycode #leadershipdevelopment

Tune in for this empowering conversation at

Show Notes

Segment  1

On this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Brancu is joined by author, professor, and global inclusive talent strategy expert, Ludmila N. Praslova, Ph.D. They will be discussing the fresh neurodivergent perspective in leadership positions and how they look at a problem the “old leadership” has not solved. To start the discussion, Dr. Brancu asks Ludmila about the term neurodiversity, which is defined as a condition like ADHD or autism. So Ludmila shares the history and a deeper explanation of the term neurodiversity. Ludmila highlights that many companies hire a specific individual and may not want to hire someone who is neurodivergent. She makes a great analogy about biodiversity and how one group of animals needs to be exposed to another group for survival. It applies when hiring people who may be neurodivergent. Then Ludmila shares how she got into her line of work. 

Segment 2

After the first break, we return to Dr. Brancu asking what the connection between neurodiversity and developing a leadership identity. Lumila shares that the connection between the two is a social process. They both also highlight the message people receive about leadership, which is what we start to believe is true about leadership. They go on to discuss some of the challenges those societal messages can hold for marginalized groups in the workplace and then Dr. Brancu asks what things we need to think about more to create a system where we don’t have to undo or re-learn everything but accept and embrace new ideas and fresh perspective. Ludmila responds with is to move away from personal and cultural feed as to what a leader needs to be. Since life has changed drastically for generations, Ludmila highlights that it might be important to have different modes of leadership to address the different levels of complexity we are dealing with today. 

Segment 3

Moving along, Dr. Brancu and Ludmila discuss the benefits of having neurodivergents leading in the workplace. Ludmila shares the benefits of leadership teams, having different members that specialize in different areas and have certain abilities, creates a more effective approach to leadership where different individuals can complement certain abilities to thrive in a team. Ludmila has different frameworks when it comes to gaining a new perspective in the workplace, the first one of many was discussed in the previous segment, so she narrows down her framework and shares what she thinks is most important to the topic at hand. Dr. Brancu and Ludmila go on to discuss what challenges women who might be autistic or have ADHD might face when they are considering leadership roles. 

Segment 4

As the episode comes to a close, Dr. Brancu reviews everything they have talked about in this episode and asks Ludmila the infamous question that she asks at the end of every session: What is one takeaway you want to leave with the people who are listening? Ludmila says that she wants the audience to pay attention to the cognitive schemas and how they bias our evaluations of individuals. To find out more about Ludmila’s work and her upcoming book, which is set to release in April of this year, please visit for more details 


00:00:49.760 --> 00:01:00.219 Mira Brancu: Welcome to the hard skills with me, Doctor Mirabu. On this show, we discuss how to develop the newest nuanced hard skills needed

00:01:00.310 --> 00:01:13.940 Mira Brancu: to become an exceptional leader who can drive significant systemic change to make real impact. I work with leaders in healthcare research stem and other technical fields working toward that goal. But we also go beyond those industries.

00:01:14.360 --> 00:01:25.100 Mira Brancu: This is the second season. So we are naturally focused on the second stage of my strategic leadership pathway model which is developing leadership identity.

00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:33.079 Mira Brancu: And today we have a great person to speak to this Doctor Ludmila Proslava.

00:01:33.320 --> 00:01:42.080 Mira Brancu: and she's gonna talk about from margin to mattering how to lead neuro divergently. Welcome, Lidmilla.

00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:56.250 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Thank you. I'm so thrilled to be here, and I look forward to our conversation. I know you have some great questions that come from your model and from this great area of research

00:01:56.510 --> 00:02:05.810 Mira Brancu: absolutely can't wait to dig in. So as a reminder audience, we value evidence based practical solutions. So be ready.

00:02:05.870 --> 00:02:08.780 Mira Brancu: Take notes. reflect deeply.

00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.200 Mira Brancu: I always take notes right

00:02:13.390 --> 00:02:19.970 Mira Brancu: and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills muscles as you're listening to this.

00:02:20.180 --> 00:02:22.390 Mira Brancu: Now let me introduce Lyudmila for a second

00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:32.519 Mira Brancu: Dr. Lamella Praslova is an iopologist and Hr. Professional, and the author of the Canary Code, a guide to neurodiversity, dignity.

00:02:32.550 --> 00:02:42.220 Mira Brancu: and intersectional belonging at work which is coming out in April. Look it up! Super exciting! I'm I'm excited about it. She is a professor of graduate

00:02:42.320 --> 00:02:49.989 Mira Brancu: industrial, organizational psychology and accreditation liaison officer at Vanguard University of South Southern California.

00:02:50.140 --> 00:02:58.380 Mira Brancu: And she's a global inclusive talent strategy expert with extensive experience in global global diversity and neurodiversity.

00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:14.869 Mira Brancu: Her current consulting is focused on creating organizational systems for inclusion and well-being, and providing neural inclusion, training, and support to organizations such as Amazon Bank of America, Ibm mit affinity, health.

00:03:15.260 --> 00:03:20.870 Mira Brancu: and she regularly writes for Harvard Business Review, Fast company, and psychology to day.

00:03:20.890 --> 00:03:28.829 Mira Brancu: and is the first person to have published in Harvard Business Review from an autistic perspective. It's an excellent article. Look it up.

00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:52.989 Mira Brancu: I'm sure that she is going to be referencing it along with other things. Lemme. And I connected interestingly around this interest when she posted a really thoughtful instructional video is just a minute long on linked in. But I was immediately drawn to it. I initially trained in neuro psychology and had worked with kids with Adhd and autism, both as a school counselor and a psychologist

00:03:53.220 --> 00:03:58.839 Mira Brancu: who conducted neural psychological assessments and who developed recommendations for these

00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:15.429 Mira Brancu: types of accommodations for for kids and adults. So now, I'm naturally very interested in leadership development, consulting and coaching with leaders of lots of backgrounds, including those with neurodiversity and specific to this current season

00:04:15.600 --> 00:04:21.359 Mira Brancu: on developing leadership identity. This is really important because it's a way that we can really think about.

00:04:21.570 --> 00:04:39.639 Mira Brancu: how does identity play into leadership development? So that's kind of where we're gonna come at this from. You excited Lunar ready to go absolutely so much to talk about, so little time totally totally. Let's start with just like terms. Right?

00:04:39.660 --> 00:04:43.360 Mira Brancu: Neurodiversity is a relatively new term.

00:04:43.460 --> 00:04:54.520 Mira Brancu: We didn't used to have it. And in fact, people in the clinical and educational psychology world don't use this term as often as terms like neurodevelopmental condition.

00:04:54.860 --> 00:05:02.780 Mira Brancu: So that's the clinical and education term right? And it's specifically used for diagnostic assessment and intervention. But

00:05:03.080 --> 00:05:10.790 Mira Brancu: I'm wondering why do you think this this term neurodiversity emerged, and especially for the world of work. And why? It's important.

00:05:11.930 --> 00:05:26.479 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Yes, by the way, thank you for this generous introduction. Forget to say that neurodiversity is an idea emerge in late 19 nineties. And a lot of it came

00:05:26.510 --> 00:05:45.730 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: erez agmoni kind of in conversations in chat rooms that when Internet became kind of a new place for new thought development, specifically in autistic web spaces. And then, Judy Zinger and Harry Bloom kind of

00:05:45.730 --> 00:06:00.279 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: around the same time around 1,998 published using that terminal diversity and duty. Seeing her kind of define it more from a sociological perspective, and

00:06:00.390 --> 00:06:18.729 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: drew a distinction between the medical perspective that some people call pathology. Perspective on differences like out is more at aged or dyslexia, and your diversity, perspective, which is acknowledgement that

00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:40.790 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: those differences in how we think or in our emotional intensity and our focus and perception are not necessarily bad things that need correction, but are necessary on the group levels. If you think in terms of biodiversity, it's really not good for the field to just ever have one crop.

00:06:40.890 --> 00:07:02.299 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: It's not good. When you have just one kind of fish in the pond, it introduces all kinds of disease, vulnerability, weakness. So if you think about human groups. If we just hire one kind of people in the organization which unfortunately does happen, and who leave out people who are different.

00:07:02.300 --> 00:07:26.650 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: who come up with an are unusual ideas who are more sensitive to certain conditions. We lose group level strength. So neurodiversity for humanity is like biodiversity for life. It's really something that spreads into the group. Unfortunately, for a very long time, different cultures,

00:07:26.860 --> 00:07:40.519 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: created those new and normal activity to norms in which those differences, they're actually helpful on the group level became rejected and

00:07:40.950 --> 00:07:43.789 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: thought of poorly on the individual level.

00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.120 Mira Brancu: That is,

00:07:47.440 --> 00:08:04.890 Mira Brancu: a really great visual to think about the biodiversity just like you. You think about like, what is the healthy ecosystem in the ocean? Right? Biodiversity? Right? So, how did how did you get into this Lindila. Share a little bit about your background. How you got interested in this area

00:08:05.210 --> 00:08:18.720 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: I've always been interested in diversity. And that started actually before the newer diversity term was there. And my first emphasis on diversity was global diversity intercultural

00:08:18.930 --> 00:08:23.649 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: a work. So on the on the level of national level cultures.

00:08:23.850 --> 00:08:48.040 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: And then I kind of started taking this thinking into other areas. And I always had a passion for creating organizations that don't just focus on one thing, because kind of early in my career, I was in an organization that was very attuned to global diversity, very tuned to global level cultures. But when I came to gender inclusion

00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:49.779 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: that wasn't there.

00:08:50.080 --> 00:09:03.329 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: So I was always like, why are they so good? With one kind of difference, but really not very good, with another kind of difference. How do we create organizations that are welcoming of

00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:24.310 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: all kinds of differences in humanity? So that was really kind of the start of a quest. I wanted to figure out how to create organizations that are not just okay. We'll focus on national culture or on gender, or on whatever. And then other things we just, you know, don't have the capacity, or someday

00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:28.110 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: that never comes. And then,

00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:43.019 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: After you know, working in this various aspects of diversity. For a while I ginken across situation when there was gender inclusion and actually a gender program

00:09:43.210 --> 00:10:09.189 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: erez agmoni for leadership development very appropriate for this conversation, but it was completely exclusionary for autistic women, and it just kind of upset me to know. And because I started my career journey with, you know. Let's bring gender inclusion in addition to national level culture, inclusion. And

00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:37.999 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: and we're still dealing with things like, okay, let's do gender inclusion and still not working, because in this particular case women were told, you know. Just change yourselves, and be as manly as you can, which is unfortunately very true of many leadership programs and any kind of different psychological approaches or more gentle ways of leadership or not welcome and not just kind of

00:10:39.490 --> 00:10:53.879 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: that precipitated a personal crisis. Among other variables there were other things going on that need be. Just wonder like, what's wrong with me is that my cultural background, is it my social economic background?

00:10:53.880 --> 00:11:16.790 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: And then, if they're thinking, no, there's just something deeper than that is like my, it's my actual brain wiring. That's not agreeing with this particular system. And so then I self diagnose this autistic, and then I officially diagnose. And so that kind of opened my eyes to deep level of

00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:27.550 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: erez agmoni diversity that really needs to be there for people to create organizations that are inclusive. And that's really something that

00:11:27.830 --> 00:11:46.740 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: precipitated development of this model of the canary code. If you include those who are most marginalized in multiple ways, most sensitive to anything negative that's going on in organization. You really can create organizations that are welcoming to all kinds of diversity.

00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:51.020 Mira Brancu: What a journey? And

00:11:51.060 --> 00:11:52.550 Mira Brancu: yeah, I

00:11:52.870 --> 00:12:05.399 Mira Brancu: I talk about this a lot. I can really just appreciate. How frustrating it is when you take some of the most marginalized people create programs for them. And all of a sudden.

00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:13.660 Mira Brancu: The programs themselves are not supportive. They're more about like Fix, you kind of programs. Which is highly

00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:34.040 Mira Brancu: frustrating and insulting, and then also doesn't take into consideration the diversity within the group itself that you've decided so sort of randomly choose around, you know, one area of diversity, but not like, really think through the entire picture of whole identity. Right? So so definitely appreciate you speaking to that.

00:12:35.300 --> 00:12:43.049 Mira Brancu: And so I really like what you said here. My brain did not agree with the system.

00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.690 Mira Brancu: Love that because the system

00:12:47.770 --> 00:12:58.879 Mira Brancu: pushes out people whose brains do not agree with the system exactly right. But to think about it in that way to think about

00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:13.130 Mira Brancu:  just because somebody's brain doesn't agree with the system doesn't mean there's something wrong with that person's brain, right or who they are. There is something about the system that is not

00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:15.630 Mira Brancu: inclusive or accepting enough

00:13:15.660 --> 00:13:39.009 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: to feel like you can belong in that system. If that's the situation. Right? Is that kind of how? Yes, you can't belong. You can't matter. You get pushed aside and you start doubting that. Okay, maybe another situation. So it was a fluke. And maybe in this situation, I maybe I really am not cut out for those things. So it can definitely do a number on the person.

00:13:39.280 --> 00:13:46.169 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. So we are, gonna take a little, add break here. When we come back.

00:13:46.180 --> 00:13:48.560 Mira Brancu: I really want to dig into the connection

00:13:48.570 --> 00:14:02.039 Mira Brancu: between neurodiversity leading neuro diversity. Diversely and developing this leadership identity like, what is the crossover? So you're listening to the hard skills with me. Doctor Mirabu and our guest, Doctor Lamina.

00:14:02.040 --> 00:14:19.899 Mira Brancu: press lava, and we air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern time. If you would like to join our online audience and ask questions that we can answer in real time. We are here. We will answer in real time. You can find us on Linkedin or on, and we'll be right back.

00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.280 Mira Brancu: Lithuan, Milla, in just a moment.

00:16:35.030 --> 00:16:42.340 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku, and with our guest, Dr. Ludilla Proslava.

00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:58.220 Mira Brancu: So we just got done sort of defining. How did the term neuron diversity come to be? Why did it come to be? Why are we focusing on it? How do you see this idea of neurodiversity connecting with

00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:08.270 Mira Brancu: our season on developing leadership identity? How how do you think about leadership, identity, and where neurodiversity fits in Lindmala?

00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:15.280 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Oh, my goodness, so many interactions. And so the way I think about

00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:22.990 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: identity development is ultimately it's social psychology. It's a social relational process.

00:17:22.990 --> 00:17:46.440 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Leadership is also a social process. So we don't develop identity in a vacuum or leadership. Both are formed through our relationships with our various social niches. You know, starting at home school, various groups that we interact with and the feedback we get is a big

00:17:46.580 --> 00:17:48.590 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: part of this process.

00:17:48.610 --> 00:17:55.019 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: So there are really 2 pieces, the societal piece and individual pieces, and then in

00:17:55.560 --> 00:18:13.490 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit Ctl and windows. So if we think about the societal piece. We know there are leadership schemas. There's a lot of research that people have particular expectations when we ask people to close their eyes. And you know you can just do it and say, so. What is your ideal leader, or what is your

00:18:13.490 --> 00:18:34.820 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: finance leader? And then we can ask, Okay, what is your education? Leader on mental image? And you might get sort of certain differences. But most people, let's say, if we ask for a leader in finance. Might look a little bit different than a leader in education. The second is more likely to, you know, have

00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:58.780 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: more of a feminine characteristics. But for the most part it's a very loud, outgoing, masculine image that most people will get in their leadership schema. So if you don't match any of those characteristics. It's very hard for people to see you as a leader. So

00:18:58.850 --> 00:19:00.170 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: the more

00:19:00.340 --> 00:19:03.250 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: difference you have from that schema.

00:19:03.280 --> 00:19:27.420 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: That people have about leaders, the harder it is for people to see you as a leader. So it influences leadership, emergence in the group. Because of just who people pay attention to because of their schemas, and that's usually the taller and the louder people, at least in the American culture and most Western cultures. And if you are

00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:43.080 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: someone who doesn't match on just one characteristic, you're likely you're less likely to emerge. And if you don't match on multiple characteristics, you're less and less likely to be naturally looked at as a leader. It doesn't mean it's impossible.

00:19:43.130 --> 00:19:58.959 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: It's but it takes more effort from you, or stronger crisis to override those kinds of perceptions and biases that most people just are not aware of. Consciously, they just kind of do it

00:19:59.050 --> 00:20:00.520 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: and

00:20:00.630 --> 00:20:06.560 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: so down when you get this kind of feedback from your environment, you naturally start

00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:21.079 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: positioning yourself in a way that the society is pushing you into. So your leadership identity is going to be colored by those experiences.

00:20:21.370 --> 00:20:42.149 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Obviously there are ways to work at it and get through it. But it's not easy. You can build self confidence. But you might do a little bit more intentional work, or take more of a zigzaggy path to leadership, because the traditional letter keeps pushing you down.

00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:51.430 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: So you kind of have to, you know. Climb the wall, do something that's a little bit different, and, you know, take the

00:20:51.990 --> 00:20:54.010 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: a different path.

00:20:54.090 --> 00:21:13.300 Mira Brancu: so I can. And I'm happy to elaborate on those things as well. Yeah, no, I'm absolutely I really love how you conceptualize that. You know how identity and leadership are both social processes and the messages that we receive about leadership is what we start believing about leadership.

00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:16.969 Mira Brancu: And you have 2 paths. Then right? You either

00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:31.159 Mira Brancu: must conform to the idea of the the messages that you receive about what leadership is like and in in, and the risk to that is obviously you feeling completely disconnected from

00:21:31.290 --> 00:21:33.779 Mira Brancu: the role you're you're trying to

00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:43.969 Mira Brancu: take on or to display out there in the world to feel accepted as a leader. Or the opposite is to reject becoming a leader altogether.

00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:52.190 Mira Brancu: Or tell yourself you can never move into leadership spaces because of what you've been told. Right?

00:21:52.310 --> 00:22:01.920 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Yes, and it's very hard. So collectively, we need to work on changing our attitudes, changing the role models by then

00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:21.790 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: the changing the definition of leadership and how it's seen. I think it's happening because the world is becoming more diverse. But it's not something that's going to happen very easily on itself. We still need to work on intentionally showing different kinds of role models and

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:27.290 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: trying to change those kinds of biases.

00:22:28.010 --> 00:22:35.709 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: But as individuals, we can also do a few things. If we just kind of give up. It's obviously not going to

00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:50.720 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: help anything, even though not. Everyone has to be a leader. Some people are very happy doing other things so people are not required to be a leader, to have value in life. However, if there is something that you just

00:22:50.900 --> 00:23:12.190 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: kind of inclined to, but society doesn't necessarily see you that way. There are a few things we can do to build our leadership, self-efficacy, and the continents in our ability to lead, which comes through experience. I mean there, there's something to mindset and psyching yourself. But nothing is

00:23:12.510 --> 00:23:32.490 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: strong enough to replace the actual experience of success. But if we define leadership in more than one way, and select our environment and lead in environment that are more accepting of different types of leadership. Or start with. Rg, start with your community group

00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:47.479 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: become leader. That is a mentor. It's a different form of leadership. Thought leadership is something I've been talking about. So you can build your leadership self-efficacy in different ways. It doesn't have to be

00:23:47.510 --> 00:24:15.279 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: positional, hierarchical within organization, even though ideally, of course, I would love to see more presentation there. But there are ways to develop your identity. So we can design our experience through that. And then we can also just be aware of those negative thoughts. It's it's not fun that we have to do it because it takes a lot of energy out of us to just you know. Keep reminding ourselves, you know. Don't be

00:24:15.930 --> 00:24:22.929 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: brought down by all those things that happened, but to certain extent

00:24:23.030 --> 00:24:40.710 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: we can do it. We can direct our thoughts, even though again, ideally, I would love to see social change that would not put this extra psychological tax on already marginalized people, of working through all those things that society throws at us.

00:24:41.350 --> 00:24:47.900 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And there's a lot to work through. You know one of the things that

00:24:48.290 --> 00:25:03.200 Mira Brancu: that that we work on in my towerscope Leadership Academy as well as just like through coaching and consulting, is you know, helping women, especially women, from marginalized backgrounds, tease apart, like what part of this whole situation is me.

00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:12.300 Mira Brancu: And what am I bringing here, both in terms of strengths and potential pitfalls or liabilities? Blind spots, whatever that is.

00:25:12.410 --> 00:25:19.400 Mira Brancu: But then, what part is, are those societal messages that I've incorporated that actually are not mine.

00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:34.599 Mira Brancu: That I'm sort of believing right, and that is causing harm to me that I need to let go of, or unlearn, or whatever right and then what part is the other person and their thing?

00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:38.169 Mira Brancu: And being able to tease that apart is not easy

00:25:38.320 --> 00:25:43.630 Mira Brancu: and but once you're able to sort of learn how to do that better and better.

00:25:44.250 --> 00:25:54.680 Mira Brancu: that kind of thing helps anybody. I mean, it helps every single person be more effective in engaging in any kind of situation right? Just to be able to know yourself.

00:25:54.820 --> 00:26:05.240 Mira Brancu: understand and assess the situation. And try to figure out like, okay, that's that part is not about me, right? But I really appreciate what you said that

00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:12.449 Mira Brancu: there's an additional burden on people with marginalized backgrounds that, like is it really fair

00:26:12.590 --> 00:26:16.209 Mira Brancu: to add that additional burden to learn all of this stuff.

00:26:16.670 --> 00:26:20.739 Mira Brancu: and to try to unlearn or separate or

00:26:20.870 --> 00:26:24.869 Mira Brancu: work even harder to engage people around. That's a lot of work.

00:26:25.260 --> 00:26:37.269 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Yes, it's it's all work, it's unfair. So the the whole thing of unfairness is an additional thing to work through. And but that again, is not

00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:43.169 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: something that we can wish away, but we can work it away slowly and collectively.

00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:48.160 Mira Brancu: Yeah, so let's let's get into that a little bit. So

00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:49.270 Mira Brancu: you know

00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:55.070 Mira Brancu: what? What are the kinds of things that we need to be thinking about? More?

00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:59.660 Mira Brancu: In order to create a system

00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:01.740 Mira Brancu: where

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.320 Mira Brancu: we don't have to work so hard

00:27:04.730 --> 00:27:15.810 Mira Brancu: to undo, unlearn, separate at least marginalize leaders and make it a little bit more equitable. How we engage in

00:27:16.130 --> 00:27:21.809 Mira Brancu: embracing lots of different kinds of leadership and accepting that like, what's the path to that?

00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:34.890 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: There are 4 chapters on this on my books. So let me try to narrow. It is down. So I think one thing that would

00:27:35.170 --> 00:27:53.670 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: help generally all organizations and all people is to move away from this very rigid idea of cultural feed, or just generally personal feed. And just this one model of what human being is allowed to be.

00:27:53.670 --> 00:28:14.719 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: More specifically, what a leader is allowed to be. If we just evaluate those norms and say, Okay, so this is a core value. This is really important. But this is channels, just something that people did in 1950. S. And we just never took care of getting rid of it. So there's a lot of

00:28:14.800 --> 00:28:15.900 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: a

00:28:18.030 --> 00:28:19.429 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: you know, just kind of

00:28:19.590 --> 00:28:46.549 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: baggage in cultures. That is unnecessary. That's making life harder for people. So whether it's appearance, expectations, or how people define professional behavior like you're never allowed to cry so if you ever cry in public like you're done, there's a big cross on you. You know what that person can have huge talent and huge love for organization

00:28:46.550 --> 00:29:07.319 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: to the point of this person cried in front of others, because they love the organization their co-workers so much. So let's just not cut out people who are passionate about things and have intense emotional experience. Because you're going to get rid of some of your literally strongest

00:29:07.320 --> 00:29:26.110 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit Ctl and most committed contributors. If you do this, so evaluate those norms and what we consider feed, and whether those things actually make sense. And again, there is values feed. But then people throw all kinds of personal biases into what they define as a 45

00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:39.180 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit. Ctl. And culture fit. So that's one thing that all organizations can do, and for leadership just redefine of what constitutes leadership and maybe go away from this 123

00:29:39.190 --> 00:29:53.890 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her:  you either feed in this one size that we just decided on, and that's been passed down through. Who knows how many generations and maybe leadership in this kind of role in which we'll live in

00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:56.740 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: looks sounds

00:29:56.800 --> 00:30:09.160 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: differently than it did before. And maybe we do need multiple modes of leadership to address the levels of complexity that we're dealing with.

00:30:09.310 --> 00:30:28.720 Mira Brancu: Awesome. Let's stop there. We're gonna return right after this ad break to get into what are those benefits of seeing leadership in different ways and thinking about leaders in different ways. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Dr. Ludmila Prasava.

00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:39.870 Mira Brancu: We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern feel free to drop us a line right now, and we can answer you back on Youtube or, and we'll be right back

00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:42.230 Mira Brancu: after this message.

00:32:43.190 --> 00:32:52.499 Mira Brancu: welcome back on the hard skills with me and Dr. Proslava on leading neuro divergently. So we just got done talking about

00:32:53.100 --> 00:33:06.610 Mira Brancu: some things that organizations can do to start adjusting and leaning into new ways of being and doing and letting go of some old

00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:14.560 Mira Brancu: unhelpful norms. And those norms that actually don't meet the needs of today's global

00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:28.010 Mira Brancu: ever changing experience in in the world of work. So so you mentioned redefining leadership is important and letting go of ex our expectational or norm baggage.

00:33:28.310 --> 00:33:35.090 Mira Brancu: let's look at the benefits of leading neuro divergently, specifically, why should we embrace this?

00:33:36.780 --> 00:33:51.539 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Well, I wish we didn't need. Oh, I wish we didn't need a business case for everything, because I prefer going with just a human case. It's the right thing to do. However, people do on their business case. So

00:33:51.820 --> 00:34:10.090 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: if we think about modern organizations, we are talking about challenges such as dealing with complexity. We're talking about challenges such as decision making in the uncertain world and saving puzzles that never existed until this morning.

00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:23.610 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: And we talk about paying attention to emotional well-being of employees of leading with empathy and manual leaders are burned out because they're expected to do all of this.

00:34:23.810 --> 00:34:24.850 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: and

00:34:26.130 --> 00:34:28.899 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: it just becomes

00:34:29.270 --> 00:34:31.640 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: so that leadership has becoming

00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:51.750 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: increasingly stressful and almost impossible thing to do to meet all those competing expectations and burnout levels. The intentions to quit their jobs are very quiet among all leaders in various positions. But let's think about it in a different way.

00:34:51.900 --> 00:35:02.139 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: We also talk more and more about leadership teams. So when we have leadership teams in which people work with their strength

00:35:02.350 --> 00:35:17.170 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: and focus, maybe 75% of their time on something that they're really, really really good, at, which is whether it's dealing empathetically with employees, or say

00:35:17.310 --> 00:35:36.530 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit Ctl, and solving those intellectual puzzles, whatever is their preferred mode of function, because we all have different modes of functioning. If we create again, diverse teams thinking about diversity as a group group level phenomenon, we can get people who are really really good at something dedicating

00:35:36.530 --> 00:35:58.089 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: more time to that thing that they're really good at. And then other people also doing the thing that they're really good at, and that is much better than splitting one person in 45 different ways, of which they only get to work, maybe 10 or 25% of time with their top strength. So when we bring people

00:35:58.510 --> 00:36:20.550 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: who have all those different we call it spiky profiles of abilities, they're really really good at something, and they're not necessarily best at everything. And we capitalize of there's under spikes of talents, whatever it is. And then we create a complementary leadership team

00:36:20.620 --> 00:36:31.509 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: that creates a much more effective approach to leadership on the organizational level than having you know, 3 clones.

00:36:31.580 --> 00:36:41.670 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: you you don't want people who are the same. We need different strengths to address the complexity and different types of problems.

00:36:42.580 --> 00:36:48.260 Mira Brancu: Absolutely a hundred percent agree? Yeah, you know.

00:36:48.510 --> 00:37:02.019 Mira Brancu: capitalize on spikes of talents like that.  but more and more  we do need to function

00:37:02.330 --> 00:37:05.650 Mira Brancu: as leadership teams and

00:37:05.980 --> 00:37:08.190 Mira Brancu: many people.

00:37:08.620 --> 00:37:10.349 Mira Brancu: From

00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:16.050 Mira Brancu: a variety of different backgrounds have

00:37:16.120 --> 00:37:20.790 Mira Brancu: gotten really good at learning how to function on teams?

00:37:20.970 --> 00:37:30.720 Mira Brancu: Because they might have more of a collaborative or collectivistic mindset which, by the way, before used to be

00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.800 Mira Brancu: devalued. Or not even seen, you know, I think, about

00:37:36.120 --> 00:38:01.379 Mira Brancu: women who do a lot of this unrecognized emotional labor of getting people together to build a support or or cohesion or you know, make collaborative decisions. And you know the work of de and I work is is often, you know, this kind of work. And it's often undervalued, unseen work. And yet

00:38:01.540 --> 00:38:05.660 Mira Brancu: those are the very, very skills that we need more than ever in the top

00:38:05.700 --> 00:38:11.980 Mira Brancu: leadership teams of organizations in order to meet all of those demands that you just mentioned

00:38:12.030 --> 00:38:14.139 Mira Brancu: right? And so why are we

00:38:14.530 --> 00:38:25.749 Mira Brancu: leaving talent on the table? Right? Why, you know you're you're not. You're not. Gonna be highly competitive. If you're leaving all of that talent on the table.

00:38:26.270 --> 00:38:50.160 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Exactly. It's really not a good long-term approach for organizations. It may feel like something, but so much easier to be homogeneous right now, because I'm stressed out right now. But you know what come to be stressed out. You know, year from now, and 5 years from now, and if you don't develop this long-term strength it eventually will get to you

00:38:50.450 --> 00:38:55.979 Mira Brancu: absolutely. And you just think about All of the leaders now, who are

00:38:56.050 --> 00:39:01.390 Mira Brancu: extremely stressed out, burned out, stretched in exhausted.

00:39:01.460 --> 00:39:03.060 Mira Brancu: and how

00:39:03.090 --> 00:39:10.530 Mira Brancu:  Better it would feel for them to have a team around them that picked up.

00:39:10.660 --> 00:39:18.970 Mira Brancu: The the areas that you mentioned that may not be a strength or may not be an interest, or may require

00:39:19.020 --> 00:39:24.399 Mira Brancu: way more effort than they want to put into something, but somebody else is like super passionate about it.

00:39:24.590 --> 00:39:29.589 Mira Brancu: I mean, that's kind of a no brainer. So so tell us about

00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:56.129 Mira Brancu: little bit about the frameworks that you think about in your book. You said you had 4 chapters on this. We spoke a little bit about you know defining leader redefining leadership and you know, letting go of those. Expect the expectational baggage? What else should organizations be thinking about? If they're gonna lean into sort of some of this team leadership. And getting better at more, you know, an inclusive, healthy workplace.

00:39:57.350 --> 00:40:02.480 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Oh, goodness again! It's there's there's quite a lot. But if you

00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:13.560 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit Ctl and think about leadership pipelines, I want organizations to get rid of the term. Another leadership material, because

00:40:13.830 --> 00:40:19.990 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: you don't know what kind of leadership you're going to need tomorrow. And oh.

00:40:20.350 --> 00:40:36.779 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: in the changing world and in the changing situations very often you will need very different kinds of leaders. And I and I think we need different kinds of leaders now than we need 4 years ago. And also very often, this idea of.

00:40:36.790 --> 00:40:58.049 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: You know this 9 grade who has potential? Who does not have potential? It's so influenced by bias that at the very least, I want those tools to be used with a lot of caution. But I think we'll lose a lot of people on this early stage of identifying who

00:40:58.050 --> 00:41:23.110 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: who gets into the leadership pipeline and into the leadership development programs. And then sometimes it could create, as you know, the special program on the side but it's never taken. It's not necessarily taken seriously by all organizations, and sometimes it kind of leads in this very particular. Sealing bound track.

00:41:23.310 --> 00:41:35.040 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: That is not the same as like that leadership pipeline for everyone else. So I just want to think about the bigger pipeline and more branches of the pipeline

00:41:35.040 --> 00:41:56.700 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: that are aligned more with individual level talents and think that there are different kinds of leadership and different kinds of leadership potential. Because, again, this idea of who is leadership material is very much influenced by all the biases and also

00:41:56.810 --> 00:42:06.779 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: the tight role that's you know, often used when we talk about gender that women are expected to, you know. Be

00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:30.520 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: just this bit of set of assertive but never aggressive. And there's a very fine line between you know your 2 week versus your too much, and then when you add other intersectionalities, it's even harder. So I want people to be very aware of those biases in idea, in identifying leadership potential.

00:42:30.640 --> 00:42:47.759 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. It's booked from 1992 breaking the glass ceiling where they use the term the narrow band of acceptable behavior for women, you know. And that's exactly what what you referred to. I'm curious about

00:42:47.990 --> 00:42:51.699 Mira Brancu: women with autism women with ad, HC.

00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:59.149 Mira Brancu:  what are these sort of additional intersectional challenges for them when they're thinking about leadership?

00:43:00.110 --> 00:43:10.659 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Well, again, there are very specific biases when it comes to autistic people. Well, a people don't even imagine women. And then they have all those

00:43:10.850 --> 00:43:33.559 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: ideas that are formed by, let's say, media and movie portrayals. They're not necessarily aligned with the leadership, and that Adhd dyslexia might be a little bit more. But there's really particular entrepreneurial type of leadership rather than here, all people in organization, in organization. So there's

00:43:33.560 --> 00:43:42.529 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: this kind of bias. And when it comes to autistic people, it's more like, okay, that's an individual contributor, and never beyond individual contributors. So there are

00:43:42.530 --> 00:43:53.050 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: very specific biases, even though we do have incredible examples of all kinds of people in all kinds of positions. But this

00:43:53.050 --> 00:43:59.749 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: hype casting is an issue, and then that, one size fits all

00:44:00.190 --> 00:44:25.020 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: leadership, imagery, imagery is also difficult. So let's say you are I mean a woman who is from a HD community. Well, women are expected to organize everyone else, and if people think Oh, this person has an age, so she won't be able to even organize herself. That really pigeon holes you, even though this person could have credible

00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:35.440 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: skills that are that actually make her more organized than others. And there are autistic people who can do

00:44:35.600 --> 00:44:47.540 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: you know all kinds of like? If you look at me right now. You're not going to think I'm not tasting because you don't usually associate it with someone who's been a university professor for years and has 0 stage fright. But

00:44:47.560 --> 00:45:13.779 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: I do have my things where they're not stage fried. But people just imagine things they're not true because of stereotypes. So there are actual difficulties that are associated with, whether being autistic or many people can have both a day and autistic traits. But when people from our neuro divergent communities.

00:45:13.780 --> 00:45:35.909 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Kind of interact with organizations. There's additional criticisms, additional expectations. And and also the lifelong bullying and lifelong people telling you like everything about who is wrong. So none of those things help. There's a lot of abuse and bullying that's been happening throughout our lives.

00:45:35.910 --> 00:45:43.649 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: which is yet another baggage you don't want. And then we're dealing with those situations that just

00:45:43.650 --> 00:46:07.590 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit Ctl and trigger our psychological response. And many people say that in addition to being autistic. For example, you also have complex Ptsd, the same thing with Adhd, because you're constantly criticized. Or, let's say, dyslexic people are always told all kinds of negative things about their abilities which are not true, but it's a perception of their abilities by other people.

00:46:07.680 --> 00:46:11.450 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: So so there's a layer of

00:46:11.890 --> 00:46:18.759 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: actual difficulties. There's a layer of trauma, and there's a layer of bias that's

00:46:18.810 --> 00:46:34.320 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: kind of specific to each type of neur diverging group. But there's also a lot of overlap in that. All of those things tend to be traumatizing and damaging to our self identity

00:46:35.370 --> 00:46:45.120 Mira Brancu: absolutely. And when when it's damaging to your self identity. You lose out on opportunities. But so does the organization.

00:46:45.190 --> 00:46:49.410 Mira Brancu: And some of those opportunities are, that

00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:53.210 Mira Brancu: people who have learned to overcome or work through.

00:46:53.590 --> 00:47:03.119 Mira Brancu: and and still push through those challenges. Have some strengths. The rest of us do not that not have not had to face that some of it is

00:47:03.430 --> 00:47:06.339 Mira Brancu: constantly being able to translate back and forth

00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:13.670 Mira Brancu: from the neurotypical way of being and doing and appearing to

00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:36.669 Mira Brancu: you know what feels natural to you. That's a translation process, right? And that that kind of thing that that is being strengthened in your ability to do that is, you know, fairly impressive. And and a lot of us don't ever use our brains that way to be able to do that. The other is just sometimes the resiliency and thick skin to face.

00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:46.280 Mira Brancu: You know these constant challenges. If you're able to sort of face them and come out the other end with something that

00:47:46.320 --> 00:48:09.540 Mira Brancu: a framework, or a way of addressing and protecting or supporting others. Who are going through that that brings a lot to an organization and to other people. Who just have not learned how to do those kinds of things or face those kinds of challenges and adversity. So again, we're just missing out on opportunities here. I think so. When we come back. Let's talk about

00:48:09.630 --> 00:48:27.020 Mira Brancu: some opportunities that you you all can be thinking about in terms of supporting those who lead neurodivergently. Again. You are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku, and with our guest. Dr. Ludmila Prasava, we'll be right back.

00:50:25.970 --> 00:50:32.120 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku, and with our guest, Dr. Ludmila Praslova.

00:50:32.420 --> 00:50:40.770 Mira Brancu: Oh, my gosh! The time has flown! And I want another hour with you, Lyudmila. Let's do this.

00:50:41.040 --> 00:50:46.630 Mira Brancu: Okay, but seriously. We've touched on a lot of

00:50:46.770 --> 00:50:50.059 Mira Brancu: things today we talked about.

00:50:50.120 --> 00:51:11.330 Mira Brancu: you know, the the challenges to why, we aren't currently able to see people with neurodiversity and leadership roles, and also the challenges they experience with being seen and accepted in those leadership roles. We've talked about what organizations can do and what to think about. What is

00:51:13.170 --> 00:51:14.340 Mira Brancu: takeaway

00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:19.149 Mira Brancu: that you would like people to leave with today? That

00:51:19.210 --> 00:51:21.169 Mira Brancu: that is important to you.

00:51:21.870 --> 00:51:44.220 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Mit Ctl, and well, there's something that we can do as individuals and as groups, and that is, pay attention to those cognitive schemas, and how they bias our evaluation. So let's say when you're hiring, and you just kind of think, oh, this person are going to become culture feed, ask yourself why, or if you're saying how this person is not a leadership material. Ask yourself why and check if those 2

00:51:44.220 --> 00:51:57.899 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: societal is shapes, shapes, schemes, and biases are influencing you, and then bring it up to your group. Bring it up to your search committee or other people who are involved in the hiring process

00:51:57.900 --> 00:52:12.600 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: and bring it up to your entire organization. Maybe you could create forms that explicitly remind people to check for those biases. And that might be something that can

00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:16.330 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: eventually help people to

00:52:16.450 --> 00:52:34.479 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: become collectively less and less influenced by those schemes. So challenge yourself and challenge whatever is your influence around to create a more inclusive definition of leadership?

00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:40.680 Mira Brancu: Love it. Okay? So every one that's listening. I want you to find 4 other people.

00:52:40.820 --> 00:52:44.400 Mira Brancu: and you each write down what is my definition of leadership?

00:52:44.780 --> 00:52:52.169 Mira Brancu: Write down your definition. Compare notes and ask each other, why do we think that right

00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:54.830 Mira Brancu: brilliant? Okay, so

00:52:54.910 --> 00:53:03.209 Mira Brancu: where can people find out more about your work? And especially. What will they learn? From your book, the canary code?

00:53:03.510 --> 00:53:20.390 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Well, II hope the canary code is going to be something that will help leaders of all the different levels, decision makers and individuals who are also trying to build their careers, even though it's specifically for

00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:29.759 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her:  mit Ctl and Ceos leaders, Hr managers. But it's also written in a way that hopefully everyone can benefit

00:53:29.770 --> 00:53:31.310 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: and

00:53:31.740 --> 00:53:46.669 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: it's hopefully a guide to creating organizations that are structurally more inclusive. So this is something that you can practically use in your everyday work. How do you work with?

00:53:46.700 --> 00:53:52.289 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: People who puzzle you? How do you change this puzzle from

00:53:52.680 --> 00:53:59.180 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: trust and threat to something positive. To what do we do with those differences?

00:53:59.190 --> 00:54:00.690 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: And

00:54:01.090 --> 00:54:26.699 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: how do we collectively create better organizations? So that's the goal of the book to help us to again in whatever is a realm of intra influence which might be bigger than we think, whether it's through er G's, or we are on top of the company. There is some kind of level of influence that we can help create

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:46.990 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: more inclusive and kinder workplaces that also support everyone's well-being. So canaries canaries in the coal mine were real. But it's not a story or a folktale. It's the actual canaries that went into coal mines for decades and

00:54:47.090 --> 00:55:10.580 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: mit Ctl, and finally were replaced by carbon monoxide detectors. But there's nothing wrong with canary. Canary is not broken. Sensitivity is a feature, and it's helpful. And if canary can breathe safely, everyone can breathe safely. So the idea is to help us to create organizations that are safe for people who

00:55:10.580 --> 00:55:34.049 Mira Brancu: who are more sensitive to toxic bullying, negative, dangerous environments. And when we do that, we create better environments for everybody. So that's where the title comes from. That's why the canary code. I'm so glad that you explain the title. I love it. It it you can really relate to that experience. And just to put up

00:55:34.110 --> 00:55:36.880 Mira Brancu: real fine point on something that you mentioned.

00:55:37.040 --> 00:55:40.630 Mira Brancu: We all. It doesn't matter what position you're in.

00:55:40.940 --> 00:55:45.420 Mira Brancu: We all have a sphere of influence around us.

00:55:45.850 --> 00:55:54.120 Mira Brancu: and you can pick up this book and think about what is my fear sphere of influence. How can I apply these, regardless of the role that I'm in.

00:55:54.450 --> 00:55:55.190 Mira Brancu: Right?

00:55:55.790 --> 00:56:01.740 Mira Brancu: So we've learned a lot today.  please

00:56:01.980 --> 00:56:04.109 Mira Brancu: share with us on Linkedin

00:56:04.410 --> 00:56:17.549 Mira Brancu: what you learn. This is where we live Linkedin. Are, you know, the the talk radio and and the hard skills is in a lot of places. But Linkedin is where we live. So share with us what you learned. What was your take away?

00:56:17.930 --> 00:56:38.130 Mira Brancu: If you would like to explore how I can help you with leadership and team development services check us out@www.scopecom. The application process for our 2024 tower Scope Leadership Academy cohort is now open. There's both an annual membership and a 12 week option.

00:56:38.160 --> 00:56:46.780 Mira Brancu: And we make decisions as we begin interviewing. And you need to apply by January twenty-twond. If you want to get in for this year. So

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:48.130 Mira Brancu: please do.

00:56:48.260 --> 00:56:51.669 Mira Brancu: audience, what did you take away? Please share with us

00:56:52.170 --> 00:56:54.879 Mira Brancu: and thank you to talk radio for hosting.

00:56:55.040 --> 00:57:03.470 Mira Brancu: I am Doctor Mirabu, the host of the Hard skill show. This is Doctor Ludmila Prasava. Thank you for joining us to day, Ludmila.

00:57:03.770 --> 00:57:20.790 Mira Brancu: and have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from. Thank you, Lyudmila. Thank you for the opportunity. It's been a wonderful conversation, and if you ever want to talk more. I'm happy to figure something out. We are going to continue. Yes.

00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:22.849 Mira Brancu: take care, everybody.

00:57:23.020 --> 00:57:25.359 Ludmila Praslova Dr/she/her: Thank you very much.

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