Frank About Health

Thursday, November 9, 2023
Facebook Live Video from 2023/11/09 - Stage of Epilepsy: Stigma

Facebook Live Video from 2023/11/09 - Stage of Epilepsy: Stigma


2023/11/09 - Stage of Epilepsy: Stigma

[NEW EPISODE] Stage of Epilepsy: Stigma

Thursdays 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EDT)


November is Epilepsy Awareness Month and the audience will see how stigma is a stage of epilepsy that most have to learn to live with either through acceptance or creating change. Stigma can motivate people to take action.

Jeff Demitrack will appear on an episode of Frank About Health with his special guest to be announced during the show to review the various stages covered since August in time to celebrate Epilepsy Awareness Month and to promote his book Dating In The Dark and his upcoming Epilepsy Event to be held November 18, 2023.


Tune in for this healthy conversation at

Show Notes

Segment 1

On this episode of Frank About Health, Frank is joined by special guest Madhulika Sundaram and returning guest Jeff Demitrack as they discuss different stigmas that surround epilepsy. To start the conversation, Madu shares her story, her past epilepsy, and the struggles she had to endure throughout her career. They all discuss stigmas that are placed around epilepsy and how it can be negative to those who are not well educated about epilepsy. However, there are stigmas that are educational and help motivate those who have epilepsy to learn more about it and have their condition managed. 

Segment 2

After the first break, we returned to Frank, Madu, and Jeff to pick up where they left off which was talking about stigmas. They first dive more into the negative aspect of the stigmas simply because people with epilepsy are considered to be “different.” An important point Madu brings up is that people have a hard time grasping a concept or initiating stigmas because epilepsy is not a visible condition. They all also highlight that epilepsy can be complex to learn about so that can drive people to not care about it or don’t want to learn about it. Then, Madu and Jeff share some of their stories and experiences with different stigmas. 

Segment 3

Moving forward into the discussion, Frank shares his own stories and experiences with stigmas. Frank's epilepsy eventually became a part of his education, so he was able to take his experiences with his seizures and take them as teaching moments and was able to turn his experiences with epilepsy into his career. Madu then shares her coping mechanisms and things she has learned about her condition of epilepsy over the years. She highlights that she is prone to having partial seizures over the course of a few days. So, if she has one, she paces herself, cancels any plans, and takes the time to rest, listen to her body, and plan her day one step at a time. To close the segment, Frank makes a point to look at the stigma as a message to an individual and to not be so hard on yourself for the benefit of protecting your mental health. 

Segment 4

To close the conversation, Jeff shares an upcoming event he is hosting this month. Jeff is hosting a show where people with epilepsy will showcase their work in books or art as well as different speakers to talk about epilepsy. Frank, Madu, and Jeff wrap up everything they have discussed in the previous segments and make their final statements and last-minute stories on stigmas. Before the episode ends, Franks shares to always take care of yourself first before taking care of others. 


00:00:23.380 --> 00:00:44.790 Frank R Harrison: Hey, everybody, and welcome to a new episode of Frank about health. Today is November ninth, 2023. It is my birthday. So this is a combination of a birthday episode. Why? Because it's the 90 ninth episode. I was born on 11 9, and it is the 9 9 episode well enough of the puns.

00:00:44.790 --> 00:01:14.789 Frank R Harrison: What I'm really being frank about health today about is a stage of epilepsy known as stigma epilepsy that we have covered with Septimetrac has covered the spectrum of various topics, from auras to medications, to post ectyl states, to mental health aspects. But one fundamental attribute that most people living with epilepsy continue to go through on a day to day basis is that of social stigma.

00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:29.000 Frank R Harrison: There is the one aspect of all of us learning to accept our lives with seizure, disorder, no matter what the cause was, or no matter what the circumstances have been. But then there are situations such as myself. With this show

00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:37.290 Frank R Harrison: Jeff with his book dating in the dark, and today our special guest, Madulika Sundaram, who I will refer to as

00:01:37.310 --> 00:01:42.409 Frank R Harrison: Madu. I think you mentioned that was the best name to refer to you as correct.

00:01:42.670 --> 00:01:44.110 jeff: Hi, how's it going?

00:01:44.750 --> 00:01:50.150 Frank R Harrison: Okay, perfect, perfect, happy birthday, Frank.

00:01:50.790 --> 00:02:10.000 Frank R Harrison: Thank you. Happy birthday to you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:25.850 Frank R Harrison: you know. I wish I could have the cake right now. But we are in a virtual ladies, zoom, and you probably gonna notice throughout.

00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:29.139 Frank R Harrison: So with us, you can at least hear us

00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:33.140 Frank R Harrison: in our conversations

00:02:33.490 --> 00:02:39.479 Frank R Harrison: throughout that hour. Overall. This is just an opportunity to

00:02:40.450 --> 00:03:07.230 Frank R Harrison: on the verges of Ep do but advocate. Fred is dating a dark now with audible as part of his on. At the same time he's gonna be hosting a conference in New Jersey over, I think, the eighteenth of November which we'll talk about later. But I wanted to have Madhu story about living life with epilepsy and dealing with the stigma. I think that is your primary challenge at this point. Correct?

00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:13.680 Madhulika Sundaram: Yes, now it's a lot better. It was quite difficult the last year or 2.

00:03:14.540 --> 00:03:15.540 Frank R Harrison: And

00:03:16.010 --> 00:03:21.790 Madhulika Sundaram: I, yeah, I struggled a little when I was in university 2 years ago in Switzerland.

00:03:22.610 --> 00:03:29.640 Madhulika Sundaram: Oh, okay, with the teachers. They were quite discriminative and harsh about it.

00:03:29.910 --> 00:03:32.869 Frank R Harrison: and it was very difficult that

00:03:33.050 --> 00:03:37.480 Madhulika Sundaram: No one seemed to really good in a sense.

00:03:37.890 --> 00:03:41.199 Madhulika Sundaram: I had an issue with the Dean was

00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:45.550 Madhulika Sundaram: yelling at me for 20 min.

00:03:45.720 --> 00:03:54.290 Madhulika Sundaram: and then actually, when I said, You know, I couldn't come in because I had 20 seizures yesterday. So he said, blame your epilepsy, why don't you?

00:03:55.020 --> 00:04:02.830 Madhulika Sundaram: And this went on for 20 min in the lobby of the

00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:16.160 Madhulika Sundaram: college, and students were just walking past. Not once said a word. I was crying, and he was yelling at me for being epileptic and using depression and anxieties, excuses for not coming into class

00:04:17.029 --> 00:04:23.059 Madhulika Sundaram: and then refuse, said, why should I give you any of my time? If you won't even

00:04:23.130 --> 00:04:27.309 Madhulika Sundaram: come to my class just because you're epileptic.

00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:44.470 Madhulika Sundaram: and finally, that once one student out of 200 came and stood between the Dean and me with her back facing him, and asked me, Are you okay, turned around and said, Stop talking to her like that. It's not okay! Yelled at the Dean.

00:04:44.780 --> 00:04:48.369 Madhulika Sundaram: He was really like a knight in shining armor.

00:04:48.570 --> 00:05:03.700 Frank R Harrison: Wow! A a. And to think in a European country, aren't they more advanced when it comes to people living with epilepsy? That's for more accepting. But no, that university generally. They weren't very

00:05:04.230 --> 00:05:05.869 Madhulika Sundaram: good about any of it.

00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:09.510 Madhulika Sundaram: Lot of discrimination and

00:05:09.780 --> 00:05:18.120 Madhulika Sundaram: favoritism. And not very sympathetic, right? No. And it was actually because I had been drugged.

00:05:18.430 --> 00:05:20.089 Madhulika Sundaram: Someone drunk my drink.

00:05:21.290 --> 00:05:31.489 Madhulika Sundaram: Oh, so they were associating your seizures with that incident rather than they didn't know I had been drugged. My seizures were associated with the drugging

00:05:32.170 --> 00:05:33.510 jeff: the drug.

00:05:33.910 --> 00:05:39.270 Frank R Harrison: yeah, it's actually it goes back a little. It's when I had come off my medication.

00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.620 jeff: So during Covid.

00:05:42.630 --> 00:05:49.039 Madhulika Sundaram: I decided that since just before Covid, I had decided that since medication wasn't working for me.

00:05:49.340 --> 00:05:58.210 Madhulika Sundaram: I was still having my partial seizures every 2 weeks, and I would have, and because when I was very stressed, I would have a grandmother's seizure.

00:05:58.760 --> 00:06:03.680 Madhulika Sundaram: So I decided with my with an Ayurvedic doctor.

00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:08.960 Madhulika Sundaram: that I was going to come off 2,000 milligrams of medication.

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:12.160 jeff: And what medication were you taking

00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:16.440 Madhulika Sundaram: at? Well, I've actually taken every medicine.

00:06:16.610 --> 00:06:18.899 Madhulika Sundaram: I think that we don't.

00:06:18.940 --> 00:06:39.540 jeff: Yeah, I mean, I'm at that level, too. We were just talking about this on Instagram, actually, that you know so many people that have refractory epilepsy. They've almost taken every medication. It's a really you don't know what it has done to your body. I discovered what it is done when I came off the medication.

00:06:39.740 --> 00:06:43.549 Madhulika Sundaram: So I think it. I have taken

00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:55.809 Madhulika Sundaram: kepra, which was horrible. I think every person with epilepsy knows how terrible Kepra is, and all the people around, you know, because you go into such a bad mood that you're yelling at everyone

00:06:56.130 --> 00:06:59.310 Frank R Harrison: it's

00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:03.830 Madhulika Sundaram: and then I've taken now I'm on La Morton. 200.

00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:11.609 Frank R Harrison: Well, that would be. The brand name is Lemiko, and that has a positive side effect. You notice more energy things like that.

00:07:11.670 --> 00:07:14.930 Madhulika Sundaram: And now only 200. So I've really come

00:07:15.030 --> 00:07:24.170 Madhulika Sundaram: from 2,000 to 200, and I'm leaving it to base those, even though they, you know, when I have extra seizures, they'll say, Why don't you add something? And I say No.

00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:41.170 jeff: and but there are mixed reviews on Lemiko. Some people have, you know, good responses to it. Some people have bad responses so, or or they have been controlled for a little while, or it's doing well. And then, you know, one day they just have a bad reaction.

00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:47.840 Madhulika Sundaram: Yeah. And then, I think at 1 point reviked when it just came into the market.

00:07:48.520 --> 00:07:55.379 Madhulika Sundaram:  I was on that. And then, if you name a few, I'll but right now I don't remember

00:07:55.620 --> 00:08:07.200 jeff: something in India, so I forgot what it was called trilftal.

00:08:07.930 --> 00:08:14.539 Frank R Harrison: No, I think those are the 2 I haven't been on.

00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:42.869 Frank R Harrison: I have to issue a few disclaimers before we continue. I didn't even yet do that, ladies and gentlemen. Most of the people watching this show, more than likely are either living with epilepsy or have recovered from it, or probably following Jeff's Instagram stages of epilepsy platform. So for that reason alone. If you hear any information, if you're watching this show and you don't suffer from epilepsy, and you're hearing us run the gamut of different medications and do not understand.

00:08:42.870 --> 00:08:47.019 Frank R Harrison: Don't let that be the basis of making you switch your ongoing

00:08:47.020 --> 00:08:55.599 Frank R Harrison: medication regimen for whatever other issues you may be dealing with. So as a disclaimer, think that our conversation is very organic in nature.

00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:18.570 Frank R Harrison: targeting those individuals living with epilepsy, and for those that are not living with it learn from us and our experiences, so that you could see what our group of individuals are living with in terms of social stigma, as well as the medical Juggernaut of trying to balance out your treatment, especially when there might be other solutions depending on the individual.

00:09:18.640 --> 00:09:37.159 Frank R Harrison: Alright that all being said, you guys were going through the whole gamut of medication. And I can. Only I was just reminding her of some medication, you know. So yeah, so many people will mention this medication be. I had this side effect on that medication this side effect on another medication.

00:09:37.160 --> 00:09:56.669 jeff: But you were talking about stigma, and you know a lot of people, you know, they're saying, what is stigma? And it's a, you know, a negative social attitude or discrimination against someone, you know. And a lot of times. People want us to describe it, but you know the strengths that a person with epilepsy has

00:09:56.670 --> 00:10:17.389 jeff: as is still not enough for a person when they are considering, you know. You know many different things in society, and you know that's you know, epilepsy has been attached to stigma for so long. You have to, you know. Keep that in mind, you know, it's a really why, you know, we're trying to fight it. And

00:10:17.390 --> 00:10:41.959 jeff: awareness month and Awareness week, because really, there's awareness everything these days. So it's like people kind of like, shrug it off, you know. Because what you know, why am I gonna spread awareness for for pop tarts, or something, you know, like that. Well, I mean, the reality is is that stigma is always attributed to when most people.

00:10:42.060 --> 00:10:46.729 Frank R Harrison: Let's just say the normal group, as they say, like the normal curve

00:10:47.020 --> 00:11:06.180 Frank R Harrison: that don't fit into our category of individuals, live with it. Some form of neurological disability. They just don't understand it. It's like, if you're a sober person that never drinks or takes drugs and you're dealing with an alcoholic or you're dealing with a drug addict. They're gonna have a stigma attached. The stigmas are attributed to people that

00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:22.150 Frank R Harrison: they just don't have any understanding. They don't. They don't have the ability to understand from lack of experience, and they're probably not educated in the whole lifestyle issues that people with epilepsy face. So there's the one aspect where stigma is a negative based on no information at all.

00:11:22.150 --> 00:11:40.180 Frank R Harrison: and the unwillingness for people to get clarity. And then there is stigma. As education for those living with it where we can use to learn to use it as a strength in combating those individuals that want to just attribute negative projections when it just really means that those are people you don't need in your life.

00:11:40.300 --> 00:11:56.939 Frank R Harrison: So when stigma becomes a weapon, it's as a defense, not a weapon. That's the wrong word when it becomes a good defense model for yourself is when it helps you filter out those individuals or those groups of people that are just not going to be beneficial to the, to your way of life.

00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:14.950 Frank R Harrison: While moving forward, you know, speaking about moving forward, we're headed for our first commercial break. But I just wanted to mention what is our objective as people with epilepsy. The worldwide view of epilepsy hasn't changed in so long. And what is the reason for that.

00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:40.349 jeff: There is an uncomfortable feeling that comes into the air as soon as we mentioned the word epilepsy, and around even the kindest of people, and even people that want to do the right thing. So people are interested in you, and as a person on a deeper level, and of course epilepsy has nothing to do with that. So it's just that, you know, it's just something I wanted to throw in there with when it comes to stigma.

00:12:40.480 --> 00:13:06.070 Frank R Harrison: Yeah. And absolutely when we come back, we're gonna flesh that out even more. Because, as you know, stigma is associated with many people with different illnesses, everyone knows that Covid was such a stigma that it became a political divide in our country. So that in itself is a lesson for segment. 2. Where we're gonna talk about the whole nature of stigma and the impact it has on individuals. We, as epileptic individuals, have the ability to differentiate it and clarify it

00:13:06.070 --> 00:13:17.220 Frank R Harrison: for those listening to the show. So, ladies and gentlemen, please stay tuned to this episode of frank about health, a stages of epilepsy podcast version, where we discuss stigma and epilepsy. We'll be back in a few.

00:15:23.050 --> 00:15:50.240 Frank R Harrison: hey, everybody, and welcome back. By the way, this show is currently aired on twitch Youtube, Facebook and Linkedin, in addition to the audio version on talk radio dot. Nyc, if you're currently listening, live and you are able to comment on anything you hear today. By all means, if you're on Twitch or Linkedin or Youtube, and you have the ability to communicate, please ask your questions, make your comments, and we'll try to do our best to answer them. Live here.

00:15:50.260 --> 00:16:00.980 Frank R Harrison: Otherwise, Jeff, you brought up a lot of good points about stigma. Stigma in itself can be confusing, no matter how many times either you or I try to advocate for people living with it.

00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:08.860 Frank R Harrison: Stigma is just that a negative brand that people are attributed to because they're different, quote unquote, different.

00:16:08.900 --> 00:16:25.360 Frank R Harrison: But we are all different, you know. We try to normalize or come up with the collective haves! And have nots, if you will, or those people that are considered normal by so certain social standards that are set up really by the culture of the moment.

00:16:25.410 --> 00:16:45.430 Frank R Harrison: But the irony is is that for the 3 years we were all living under a global pandemic which stigmatized the world essentially, and tried to find blame on. Where did it come from? Who created it? Was it true? Was it a hoax? Are the vaccines going to cure us. Are they going to kill us? Blah! Blah! Blah blah blah!

00:16:45.430 --> 00:17:00.720 Frank R Harrison: The thing is is that what makes everyone more clear about the disorder itself? And in this case. Epilepsy is when people take time to reflect and understand the nuances of the disorder of the treatments where it may come from.

00:17:00.800 --> 00:17:10.869 Frank R Harrison: what social attributes or dysfunctions does the individual patient have to face whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, whether it is social.

00:17:10.910 --> 00:17:14.450 Frank R Harrison: Now, instead of stigmatizing people.

00:17:15.020 --> 00:17:23.899 Frank R Harrison: one would do themselves a better service, not only the individual living with it, but the individual associating with a person living with it

00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:48.910 Frank R Harrison: by learning exactly what the quality of life is for an individual with epilepsy, just like as we all tried to learn what it was like to get Covid or survive it somehow. Right? So the thing is is while stigma is defined in the dictionary. As you, I think eloquently, said Jeff, a negative attribute based on a difference of an individual circumstance. What what? Whatever it's written as

00:17:49.070 --> 00:18:13.899 jeff: stigma. That's just from the Internet. But really, we try to normalise epilepsy and say, you can express and say that I have epilepsy to people. But then will society and employer hold, or maybe a potential dating partner? That's why I wrote my book about intimacy. Will they hold it against us? That is my question.

00:18:13.900 --> 00:18:28.150 jeff: You know, it's been around for so long and been associated with names like the sacred disease like, and although Hippocrates didn't believe epilepsy was any more divine than other diseases. He did believe that it was unique.

00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:45.149 jeff: He has moved the fields of neuroscience and neurology. Epilepsy has moved those fields forward and helped experts make discoveries about the brain. You know the hippocampus and amygdala, to to be exact, you know, are 2 examples.

00:18:45.650 --> 00:19:02.269 Madhulika Sundaram: I sorry? No, I'm saying it's also difficult, because it's not visible. It's not a visible thing. So if you just say to someone, I can't. If you cancel a plan last minute, or you know you just say.

00:19:02.430 --> 00:19:07.140 Frank R Harrison: not feeling great. So you're cutting a queue to get out of a place quicker.

00:19:07.250 --> 00:19:20.110 Madhulika Sundaram: People are going to look at you like this. You know, you're being rude, or it's not okay. And you feel bad, you know, because everyone's sort of looking at you like you're doing this really wrong thing.

00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:37.129 Frank R Harrison: Yeah, correct, correct. And based on what both of you said, based on what both of you just said stigma is not attributed by those who thoroughly understand what epilepsy is, whether you are the medical, professional, or whether you are the individual living with it.

00:19:37.260 --> 00:19:58.190 Frank R Harrison: The only basis for stigma is lack of knowledge, lack of education, lack of understanding, and one who probably grew up under conditions of bias or prejudice, limited thinking, not willing to change, not willing to look at the bigger picture. And so one can consider stigma an attribute of those that are limited. We wouldn't say mentally ill.

00:19:58.270 --> 00:20:03.179 Frank R Harrison: but we would say limited individuals that only want to know so much, and then that's it

00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:20.030 Frank R Harrison: for the individual living with the condition, if they are not able to under to withstand the stigma. It's just a subtle message saying this individual or this group of people are not for you. If you want to live a better quality of life. You want to surround yourself around people who are open

00:20:20.030 --> 00:20:47.210 Frank R Harrison: to your limitations and work with you, to live the best life you can, even if you have seizures in front of them, so forth. And I want to mention that so many times people don't want to understand epilepsy. It's such an intimidating disorder. It's such a scary disorder shocking when you see a seizure for the first time. You know, people are really taken back by it. Of course some episodes might be more shocking

00:20:47.210 --> 00:21:02.440 jeff: others, and the the circumstances, circumstances might have something to do with it. But you know some of the people in our lives don't understand the routine. They don't understand what someone with epilepsy is going through to survive.

00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:18.849 jeff: You know. I've mentioned that with with so many people I've talked to, and they sometimes need someone to be supportive during their seizure, but other times they need to be left alone, because the post-stal is so unpredictable. You never know how you're going to react

00:21:19.570 --> 00:21:36.470 Frank R Harrison: exactly, but the way that we can learn to use stigma as our advantage because we are living with it. So as a result, we're living with a secret. They don't understand it, though, whoever they are. I'm not giving anyone any particular blame. Here

00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:48.509 Frank R Harrison: the thing is is that they don't understand it. But that's their problem, not yours. What you then look at is, if you understand it, because you're living with it. You're taking the medication for it. You're seeing your doctors about it. You're getting tested for it.

00:21:48.560 --> 00:22:07.869 Frank R Harrison: Then you figure out, how do you use it as your secret weapon, as your strength for your career, your personal life, your your friendships, your family, or, better yet, what you and I are both doing, Jeff. We're advocating for those living with epilepsy. We're making our livelihoods, our careers, our our campaigns

00:22:07.870 --> 00:22:24.119 Frank R Harrison: towards creating change and making it more acceptable. The irony which I was saying earlier about Covid is when Covid came. Epilepsy is now something that people can just talk about like they talk about the common cold. You don't see the stigma as intense as you did 3 or 4 years ago.

00:22:24.130 --> 00:22:26.050 Frank R Harrison: I don't know if you're noticing that, Jeff.

00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:56.000 jeff: No, III mean, I'm not really sure II don't. I'm not a social as I was in my twenties and early early thirties. I mean, now I'm getting a little bit older. Really, young people are. Gonna take it from here, you know. I I'm I'm hoping that I made a difference. And you know, I just leave a few you know, wisdom tidbits here and there, you know. I mean, I feel like I'm the the net. The last generation, you know, it's other people have to take over.

00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:23.849 jeff: you know. I mean when it comes to finding new ideas, because, you know, I'm just a you know. Bring in the purple tree of life here. For for all you spiritual purple warriors out there for epilepsy awareness. Month, you know. May the symbol of the tree of life bring healing to illness, cures to diseases that don't yet have cures like epilepsy, point us in the right direction towards medicinal treatments and

00:23:24.080 --> 00:23:33.900 jeff: correct of pure epilepsy. But anyone with a brain can develop epilepsy, and that's something a message that we have to keep spreading.

00:23:34.310 --> 00:23:53.229 Frank R Harrison: Sure, I could just tell you one of the aspects I know you talk about the younger generation and stuff, but the medical profession, the people at the Nyu Langone comprehensive epilepsy Center, for example, are looking at the genetic solutions for curing epilepsy. I think I mentioned to you back in April, when we did a show, together

00:23:53.230 --> 00:24:11.720 jeff: with Danielle Swanson, that there is a new Mrna vaccine being tested to stop seizures altogether. Of course you still have to be careful when you you're trying to change people's DNA. I still think you need to be very skeptical. Need to be very careful.

00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:41.520 jeff: Don't come. Don't confuse Mrna with changing DNA where it could impact the genetic sequence. I mean, you know, I'm not a doctor, but really I think you have to be very skeptical of you know anything that you're you're trying to change the whatever it might be. If there's side effects of of these medications that already have. You know.

00:24:41.520 --> 00:24:53.879 Madhulika Sundaram: Oh, I don't know a lot of side effects. You don't wanna throw something else in there that is, that might be even more severe, so it can do anything damage badly which you don't want.

00:24:53.910 --> 00:25:11.570 Frank R Harrison: But Jeff Jess, in the interest of time, I just want Madhu to talk about her experience with the stigma, because, even though what I'm saying is that the medical profession is gonna come to a point

00:25:11.570 --> 00:25:29.030 Frank R Harrison: where epilepsy will be common, just like looking at your heart, you know. But we don't have to worry about that in the immediate future. We just have to know that there is a white light at the end of the tunnel, if you will. But, Madu, you were telling me the negative experience you had at your university there in Switzerland. You said.

00:25:29.430 --> 00:25:41.219 Frank R Harrison: Yeah. have you since that time been able to overcome other stigma related events. I've actually even here faced some in restaurants

00:25:41.410 --> 00:25:47.379 Madhulika Sundaram: where I had a grandma in a restaurant, and because, you know. Sometimes you tend to shriek

00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:49.060 Frank R Harrison: before the session.

00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:54.369 Madhulika Sundaram: So they threw them out. While I was having the seizure they threw us out.

00:25:55.180 --> 00:25:56.749 Madhulika Sundaram: but I was in the middle of it.

00:25:57.150 --> 00:26:08.089 Madhulika Sundaram: And were you even conscious when they threw you out? No, I just came out of it, sitting on the side of the road and shaking, and that's what all I remember.

00:26:08.290 --> 00:26:17.300 Madhulika Sundaram: So they they told I had gone with my mother and a friend and her mother, and we were all sitting there, and I just said to my mother, You know I'm going to have a partial one.

00:26:17.950 --> 00:26:19.080 Frank R Harrison: and

00:26:19.510 --> 00:26:28.439 Madhulika Sundaram: I usually just get those, and I'm out of it, and then I reorient and everything, and because of the noise, and because the others were uncomfortable and staring.

00:26:29.090 --> 00:26:34.119 Madhulika Sundaram: they came to them and said, You have to leave the restaurant right now. You're causing a scene.

00:26:34.300 --> 00:26:37.530 Madhulika Sundaram: So they said, Can't you see we can't do anything she's having?

00:26:37.700 --> 00:26:53.099 Madhulika Sundaram: Okay, we can't do anything. And they said, Sorry you have to leave, pick her up and go. So they had to sort of by then. I hadn't. I think it was I was prodding, but not shaking too much, so they dragged me out

00:26:53.350 --> 00:26:55.710 Madhulika Sundaram: and sadly, height of the rule.

00:26:56.320 --> 00:27:03.629 Madhulika Sundaram: and I was just sitting on the side of the road. Next thing I knew I was on the side, and then they put me in a taxi and took me home.

00:27:04.610 --> 00:27:26.329 Frank R Harrison: Well, one take away right there is that basically depending upon where you're having your seizure, it depends on the culture you're in, whether it is the restaurant or the university, or the country, or the social group that is going to give that experience a different interpretation. So it can be a fun joy ride that no one asked for.

00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:29.730 Frank R Harrison: I'm sorry. Say that again, this is in London.

00:27:29.750 --> 00:27:32.420 Madhulika Sundaram: So I was quite surprised. Heart of London.

00:27:32.610 --> 00:27:37.140 Madhulika Sundaram: I was sitting on the street, and yeah, it was. It was scary, and

00:27:37.170 --> 00:27:39.700 Madhulika Sundaram: I also find for me.

00:27:40.010 --> 00:27:48.909 Madhulika Sundaram: My friends and family are very supportive, and but I always feel embarrassed at the end of it when I have them in public, because I feel I've embarrassed them.

00:27:48.970 --> 00:27:52.079 Madhulika Sundaram: And they they've never said this, and they never feel like.

00:27:52.760 --> 00:27:54.230 Frank R Harrison: And they are so.

00:27:54.810 --> 00:28:08.619 jeff: People's faces, you know, are ingrained in our brains when we, you know, like with you, and they just staring at you, the others.

00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:10.290 Madhulika Sundaram: So I feel so

00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:21.960 Madhulika Sundaram: bad. So I'm apologizing to everyone. The second I come out of it because I'm embarrassed. And I I'm worried. I've embarrassed them. So you know, you just feel, and they keep telling me to stop being

00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:24.280 Madhulika Sundaram: stop saying that because they are not

00:28:24.590 --> 00:28:25.880 Madhulika Sundaram: feeling. Yeah.

00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:41.709 Frank R Harrison: it's all the perception. But we're about to take another break, and I'm gonna share my own experiences to show you that there's fun in that which you can learn to embrace in the future. If God forbid you end up in those situations again. So, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back in a few. Please stay tuned.

00:30:45.760 --> 00:31:02.989 Frank R Harrison: hey, everybody, and welcome back. We just had a very engaging conversation on the whole stigma experiences that both Jeff and Madu have had. So I figure in honor of my birthday. I'll share you mine because I I've learned to be creative every time that those circumstances

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:14.460 Frank R Harrison: have happened in the past. Now one particular seizure which actually was my official diagnosis, was the one that almost led to my own drowning in my bathtub, and that was about 38 years ago.

00:31:14.570 --> 00:31:27.700 Frank R Harrison: So either way, I just remember coming out of the experience and staring at a cop or an Emt worker because the ambulance had been sent in, and I looked at them, and I said, What the hell are you doing here?

00:31:27.770 --> 00:31:33.950 Frank R Harrison: You know? I don't know. Maybe I was just trying to be defensive at the same time, but I turned it into a comedy routine.

00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:52.680 Frank R Harrison: Now, maybe that was my way of not feeling as embarrassed, which I did, of course, but at the same time it was my way of making them take this less seriously than it was made to be, because you can understand how people who don't have the disorder, especially even the Emt workers when they see you

00:31:52.680 --> 00:32:08.839 Frank R Harrison: going through the seizure. They don't know if you're in the middle of a stroke or a heart attack. They just know that you're moving all about, and they wanna prevent you from falling off the gurney, or wherever you are sitting at the time, but you try to make it light for them as well as for yourself.

00:32:09.050 --> 00:32:16.699 Frank R Harrison: and I think that became the benchmark for every other attack I had in front of large audiences. Another attack that I had was in the middle

00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:25.949 Frank R Harrison: of St. Patrick's Cathedral, back in 2,005. I had just crossed the street. Can you imagine if I had the seizure in the middle of the street on oncoming traffic?

00:32:26.030 --> 00:32:30.390 Frank R Harrison: So let's just say that that was divine intervention that prevented that from happening.

00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:37.600 Frank R Harrison: So all I remember is when I woke up with my head banged on the stairs. Going up to St. Patrick's Cathedral.

00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:46.680 Frank R Harrison: I did have to go to the hospital to get sutures put in here, Staples, but it was so a little cut. It wasn't a major crack experience.

00:32:46.780 --> 00:32:51.909 Frank R Harrison: My reaction was, I don't believe this happened again. I was on the way to work. What the hell is this about.

00:32:52.090 --> 00:32:55.519 Frank R Harrison: you know, and I said to the ambulance driver, Look, you know what.

00:32:55.750 --> 00:33:09.060 Frank R Harrison: There are better hospitals in the city than the one you're about to take me to you. You notice I'm not mentioning the hospital names. That's for a good reason. The point is is that take me to this one, because at least you'll find that it's a nice joy ride back home.

00:33:09.140 --> 00:33:11.809 Frank R Harrison: And then I noticed that when my phone rang

00:33:12.090 --> 00:33:21.990 Frank R Harrison: I calmed down and I was completely back in focus. For some reason for me, bells, buzzers, doorbells, whatever they are, it just snaps me back into place.

00:33:22.190 --> 00:33:31.260 Frank R Harrison: So I began to observe my post-dict, which is what that all refers to it is a moment of creativity. If you learn to own your epilepsy.

00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:44.469 Frank R Harrison: Now, the reason why I bring that up, and those are just 2 of many examples. But in the interest of time I wanted to just show you that in your case, Madu, while you had those embarrassing circumstances like with the restaurant

00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:49.799 Frank R Harrison: there is the feeling of oh, I didn't mean to embarrass you. I'm sorry this happened.

00:33:49.970 --> 00:33:56.880 Frank R Harrison: Use that as your moment of let's use this as a moment of entertainment and knowledge and education, if you can.

00:33:57.230 --> 00:34:08.249 Frank R Harrison: you know. So ironically, I also went and got my master's degree in neurop psychology, and I was doing my thesis on epilepsy and depression. So when it became a part of my education.

00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:11.540 Frank R Harrison: I would use my seizure moments as a teaching moment.

00:34:12.030 --> 00:34:18.089 Frank R Harrison: or as a lesson for those people watching me go through it, or even if there were fellow epileptics in the room.

00:34:18.489 --> 00:34:32.420 Frank R Harrison: and lo and behold, I've learned to master the art of living life with epilepsy. I don't look at it as a stigma anymore. And if someone is gonna attribute a stigma to me because of it. Then you are not in my life. You're not meant to be in my life.

00:34:32.560 --> 00:34:59.099 jeff: and then, if you can't stomach it, and if you're embarrassed by it. Bye, you gotta go and do it. And, Madu you. You said that you had a lot of traveling experiences, adventurous experiences, and you you have some coping mechanisms, I'm sure, for doing all that, because, you know, the pressure changes in the plane can be a big trigger for people. Do you have any coping mechanisms

00:34:59.220 --> 00:35:04.760 Madhulika Sundaram: for me? Actually, the plane, the pressure change doesn't bother me. It's more the crowds when you

00:35:05.170 --> 00:35:10.910 Madhulika Sundaram: you know, travel and when II can't queue up I can't feel closed in.

00:35:10.990 --> 00:35:13.709 Madhulika Sundaram: Makes me feel like I'm in an MRI machine.

00:35:13.770 --> 00:35:23.850 Madhulika Sundaram: and I sort of lose it. I start sweating and have severe anxiety, so I find it very difficult when I get off the plane to go through the.

00:35:23.870 --> 00:35:31.300 Madhulika Sundaram: you know, immigration huge. It takes hours, and they just turn in such a way that you're all

00:35:31.990 --> 00:35:52.500 Madhulika Sundaram: like, you know. So those are the things that I can't handle. It's the check in process. The image, I mean traveling is very stressful these days, going through security and being all cramped. Everybody gets to that stress traveling. And you have to make sure you have a prescription as well.

00:35:52.500 --> 00:36:07.709 Madhulika Sundaram: If you get the prescription, then I mean, medication is usually my first priority when I'm traveling somewhere. Yes, exactly. So. I find I travel a lot. I like to go to new places, and I travel alone a lot.

00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:14.099 jeff: And usually people with epilepsy. They don't travel alone. That that's unusual.

00:36:14.250 --> 00:36:22.189 Madhulika Sundaram: Yeah, it was actually I think, after I closed my rest during the restaurant, I needed a break at 1 point.

00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:26.209 Frank R Harrison: So I decided I was going somewhere, so I went to Bali for a week.

00:36:26.900 --> 00:36:37.169 Madhulika Sundaram: playing it safe, cause I just stayed first in one resort on the beach, and then I went to another hotel up in the mountains, which was they did natropathic

00:36:37.620 --> 00:36:38.660 Madhulika Sundaram: treatment.

00:36:38.930 --> 00:36:42.509 Madhulika Sundaram: so put me on a diet for one week like a detox.

00:36:42.670 --> 00:36:50.679 Madhulika Sundaram: So that was my first solo holiday. And then when I closed my restaurant, I traveled for 2 and a half months and decided I was going to learn how to ski

00:36:51.010 --> 00:37:13.419 jeff: and go surfing. Now, surfing wouldn't be the ideal thing for anyone with epilepsy. A lot of people want to be outdoorsy people, and one of the most famous people I think of is Teddy Roosevelt, he said. That's what controlled his seizures. He had. He had seizures. He lived with seizures.

00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:20.450 Madhulika Sundaram: No, for me. When I travel, actually, my seizure is reduced because they are triggered mostly by stress.

00:37:20.690 --> 00:37:23.429 Frank R Harrison: So when I'm feeling relaxed.

00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:32.790 Madhulika Sundaram: I usually I still have my seizures, but there'll be one, and I know when it's coming, so I move away, and then, if I have one, say at night.

00:37:32.950 --> 00:37:35.549 Madhulika Sundaram: the next day I canceled my entire day

00:37:36.790 --> 00:37:57.209 Madhulika Sundaram: to be safe. Oh, yeah, because of the soreness or the need to recharge, even if it's the mild disposal seizure. The next day I cancel my surfing. I cancel my reservations. I cancel any. You know the bookings that for lunch, so I don't have any plans, and then I decide how to go out. That day I might go out for a copy and come back rest

00:37:57.330 --> 00:38:11.350 Madhulika Sundaram: for so I pace it like that. Yeah. And and there's also something called the kindling effect. If you have one seizure, it's possible you might have another one. Yeah. And I usually have a few over 2 or 3 days when I do get it in.

00:38:11.510 --> 00:38:16.690 Madhulika Sundaram: Yeah, so it can even be one partial seizure or 10.

00:38:17.310 --> 00:38:20.779 Madhulika Sundaram: And so I need to really be careful at that time

00:38:20.810 --> 00:38:27.149 Madhulika Sundaram: for those 2 days. Once, if it doesn't, if it happens, say on a Monday and then on Tuesday, I don't have any.

00:38:27.610 --> 00:38:34.019 Madhulika Sundaram: Then. Wednesday I start going out again, but Monday, Tuesday, if I have them then. Wednesday, I still have to be a little careful.

00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.860 Frank R Harrison: Hmm! Interesting.

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:48.139 Madhulika Sundaram: It's like that. So even here now, when I go out, then, if I'm going out on seizure days, I have to go out. I might take it both. and not the underground.

00:38:48.220 --> 00:38:49.510 Madhulika Sundaram: or not walk.

00:38:49.880 --> 00:39:00.020 Madhulika Sundaram: because if you walk down the street again, it's dangerous to cross the road having it when I'm recovering from a seizure. I lay bed all day. I really need a day off.

00:39:00.660 --> 00:39:13.809 Madhulika Sundaram: Yeah, no, and that's I am so exhausted. Sometimes when I have more than that, I actually, I know if I've had it in my sleep. When I wake up your whole body, just it feels like you have some high temperature, and you can't do anything.

00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:20.079 Madhulika Sundaram: Oh, yeah, your body aches, especially after your grandma.

00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:27.870 Madhulika Sundaram: Yeah, no. So it's not only the muscles contracting back and forth, but it's also the electricity that has gone throughout your entire body.

00:39:27.970 --> 00:39:35.170 Madhulika Sundaram: and I would have chewed some part of my mouth when I wake up, so I already know that something is has been off.

00:39:35.490 --> 00:39:38.790 Madhulika Sundaram: So then I just cancel the day and stay in.

00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:46.580 jeff: and you need to sleep to heal. And I always say that it's your brain putting your putting itself back together again.

00:39:46.730 --> 00:39:50.800 Madhulika Sundaram: The difference actually, after I come off the medication

00:39:50.990 --> 00:39:53.509 Madhulika Sundaram: is that when I have the seizures I can't sleep.

00:39:54.520 --> 00:40:01.569 Madhulika Sundaram: I'm exhausted, but I can't sleep. When I was on the medication, when I had the seizures I'd me. I'd sleep for 18 h

00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:09.949 Madhulika Sundaram: and then wake up feeling sick, like, you know. But now, when I since I'm not on the medication.

00:40:10.150 --> 00:40:19.159 Madhulika Sundaram: I can't sleep, I'm awake every half an hour. If the slightest noise in the room, and I jump up because the anxiety is very high.

00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:29.289 Madhulika Sundaram: and when I was on the 2,000 I was on anti-anxiety antidepressant. Anti now I have to feel all that. So for me get after even one seizure. It takes me a week to

00:40:30.340 --> 00:40:36.789 Madhulika Sundaram: get back on my feet, so I go out and do things, but I'm always depressed and anxious when I go out the whole week.

00:40:37.030 --> 00:40:47.790 jeff: Well, I think a lot of people with epilepsy. It's because they don't sleep the whole night through, is it? And that is a huge reason. And but and a lot of people will say that to you

00:40:47.860 --> 00:40:51.679 Madhulika Sundaram: they have nocturnal seizures, they might have small seizures during the night.

00:40:52.410 --> 00:41:01.680 Madhulika Sundaram: So it's difficult. And with the anxiety for me, I'm just so on edge. So initially earlier. I was not in a very nice job, so

00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:07.039 Madhulika Sundaram: when I the anxiety was so high that I'd have to go and stay at a friend's house

00:41:07.180 --> 00:41:08.429 Madhulika Sundaram: for 2,

00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:11.840 Madhulika Sundaram: just to know there was someone in the other room. I still wouldn't sleep.

00:41:12.730 --> 00:41:15.259 Frank R Harrison: And so yeah, sorry.

00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:28.510 Frank R Harrison: No, no, no, this is very interesting because I'm looking at your situation, and you sounds like you have a combination of Grand Mall and partial seizures. Yes. but you are also medication controlled

00:41:28.660 --> 00:41:29.790 Frank R Harrison: right?

00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:39.969 Madhulika Sundaram: No. So the grand mal seizures are. Only if I'm very stressed. So that's why that happened in a restaurant last year when I was at this bad job

00:41:40.220 --> 00:41:41.520 Frank R Harrison: right? Right?

00:41:41.930 --> 00:41:44.590 Madhulika Sundaram: No, so better so

00:41:44.790 --> 00:41:55.889 Frank R Harrison: do you. Alright. So do you think that the the ground mile seizures, then, are attributed to some form of Ptsd or stress disorder that you've obtained as a result of living like.

00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.940 Madhulika Sundaram: because since my seizures are triggered mostly by stress.

00:42:01.130 --> 00:42:01.900 Frank R Harrison: Umhm.

00:42:02.050 --> 00:42:06.070 Madhulika Sundaram: my one, once in 2 weeks. I'm going to have a seizure. Just

00:42:07.160 --> 00:42:10.140 Frank R Harrison: it's been happening from the time I was

00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.949 Madhulika Sundaram: 14 years old. But they're not the grand mal seizure. So I'm going to have a partial seizure once in 2 weeks.

00:42:16.430 --> 00:42:37.739 jeff: you know, and there's so many traumatic components of epilepsy, so many things from acceptance to the everyday struggle. Yeah, there is injury, anxiety, losing your job or license the responses from other people, the looks on your face, it on faces like you were saying before, and it, you know it. Just, you know, sticks with you.

00:42:38.020 --> 00:42:38.980 Frank R Harrison: Yeah.

00:42:39.220 --> 00:42:58.440 Frank R Harrison: we're about to take our final break. But one closing thought is that we just have to learn to look at the stigma as a message about the individual or group that it's coming from, not internalize it and beat ourselves up with it, cause we're only manifesting further seizures for one in addition to aggravating our own mental health. So

00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:14.869 Frank R Harrison: please stay tuned, and when we return we will wrap up with whatever events that Jeff is involved in, as well as learn more about what Madu is involved in in her social media world, or anything else that she can do to help those living life with epilepsy and the stigma associated with it. We'll be back in a few.

00:45:18.630 --> 00:45:27.280 Frank R Harrison: hey, everybody and welcome back. Now, basically, Jeff, you saw that I just showed your upcoming event in Tom's River. You want to elaborate on it

00:45:27.530 --> 00:45:50.499 jeff: signing and an epilepsy sharing session on November eighteenth, so come join us in Tom's river, we set up a venue made for epilepsy awareness month. It's colored where purple and we have flyers and all these other things that are just spread awareness about epilepsy.

00:45:50.500 --> 00:46:18.650 jeff: It's a and invisible illness, advocacy as well. So I've arranged there to be plenty of epilepsy pamphlets and safety first aid about seizures. So you can take it with you. Stuff like that. Also, we're going to have a neural feedback demonstration, a treatment that is has been proven scientifically to work for Adhd, closely connected to epilepsy.

00:46:18.650 --> 00:46:38.559 jeff: So and it's a evolving event. More and more people are getting involved. But of course, I'm gonna be selling my book there. And part of the proceeds, go to the Thomps River Community Center that I'm having it at. So, you know, and Josie's gonna be there with her book, and

00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:57.209 jeff: and possibly Tarin Nicole. She has her book. It's a invisible illness related, but not epilepsy, and we might have others. We just haven't gotten that far, but you know it just not so much that they could have it in the advertisement.

00:46:57.210 --> 00:47:12.769 jeff: unfortunately. But yeah, but you know, more and more people want to come so and more more people, you know, want to share their artwork. So we're hoping that a lot of people come and refreshments included.

00:47:13.680 --> 00:47:15.850 jeff: Very good, very good. Yeah. So

00:47:16.250 --> 00:47:31.010 Frank R Harrison: now now, Madu, in terms of stigma, do you find that to be predominantly. What is in your forefront of living your life with seizures? Or are the stress triggers still work related? Are they work, related or social related.

00:47:33.720 --> 00:47:35.240 Frank R Harrison: Oh, unmute!

00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:38.420 Frank R Harrison: I'm on mute.

00:47:38.520 --> 00:47:44.669 Madhulika Sundaram: Sorry it's it's social and work. So if there's some.

00:47:44.730 --> 00:47:51.590 Madhulika Sundaram: you know, when I say social, it's I mean, if I have an issue personally with people.

00:47:51.810 --> 00:47:53.150 Frank R Harrison: Stigma. Yeah.

00:47:53.310 --> 00:47:57.089 Madhulika Sundaram: then, yes, I do. And then I stop

00:47:58.720 --> 00:48:04.639 Madhulika Sundaram: talking to not to do with my epilepsy. I mean, generally, you know, I have an argument with someone who's bringing.

00:48:04.660 --> 00:48:08.510 Frank R Harrison: I'm very sensitive to energy is in the room, energy from people.

00:48:08.630 --> 00:48:14.560 Madhulika Sundaram: So if you're bringing negative energy or draining or anything. Then I keep a distance.

00:48:14.710 --> 00:48:15.730 Madhulika Sundaram: Prompt. Yes.

00:48:16.020 --> 00:48:17.200 Frank R Harrison: yes.

00:48:17.260 --> 00:48:21.870 Madhulika Sundaram: So I even that. Now I'm being very careful.

00:48:22.570 --> 00:48:30.530 Frank R Harrison: Yeah, I mean. it reminds me about the shows that we've done together. Jeff, on narcissism, I mean, narcissistic individuals

00:48:30.540 --> 00:48:49.479 Frank R Harrison: tend to drain a lot of energy at any given time. For whatever reason, it's the neediness of those individuals, neediness of validation, neediness of attention. Among other reasons, and of course, we, as epileptic individuals who can become naturally empathic because we are aware of our auras, for example.

00:48:50.010 --> 00:49:03.210 jeff: and you can just feel that negativity when someone negative with a negative vibe comes into the room and it just you. It just you absorb it, and it makes makes you feeling like

00:49:03.230 --> 00:49:07.480 Madhulika Sundaram: so tired and exhausted, drained and just.

00:49:07.690 --> 00:49:09.629 Frank R Harrison: Yes, yes, yeah.

00:49:09.990 --> 00:49:11.170 Madhulika Sundaram: So I've been

00:49:11.620 --> 00:49:15.229 Madhulika Sundaram: working on that I've been

00:49:15.560 --> 00:49:39.540 Frank R Harrison: working on and picking it up and understanding it better. I mean, the the thing is is that you can use that your own, your own body, basically as a as a as a litmus test to determine if you're around a narcissist way I look at it is that if you are dealing with an individual who is not really the best type of individual to be around with, even if you were not suffering from seizures, what gives us. The advantage

00:49:39.540 --> 00:49:51.940 Frank R Harrison: is is that since we are, and we can feel it more eat readily, we just know the red flags are much brighter for us. So that's where the stigma actually is a message for us to do something with it.

00:49:51.940 --> 00:50:02.230 Frank R Harrison: And that's what I'm trying to keep reinforcing throughout the show that whenever living your life with a stigma, try to use it as a message that you need to do something with rather than be attacked by it.

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:06.419 Frank R Harrison: and allow your system to shut down or go into seizures, or whatever

00:50:06.590 --> 00:50:18.750 Frank R Harrison: you know I mean, if anything, over the last 99 episodes this show has been doing its best to advocate for things like epilepsy, but also other diseases. Cancer covid

00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:32.409 jeff: leukemia diabetes at the list goes on, and I've had anxiety. You can't leave out anxiety, I mean, because this, you know, society has the anxiety and depression rates have risen so much.

00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:39.600 Frank R Harrison: Yeah, but one can also say that that is all. Been post Covid. All of our hyper vigilance is

00:50:39.680 --> 00:50:42.220 Madhulika Sundaram: Covid actually work to my benefit.

00:50:42.510 --> 00:50:43.400 Frank R Harrison: Yes.

00:50:43.590 --> 00:50:56.899 Madhulika Sundaram: because I that's when I came off my 2,000 milligrams. So the whole 2 years I was coming off the medication, so there were no other commitments. and my family were all right there through the whole thing to support me.

00:50:57.250 --> 00:51:01.550 Madhulika Sundaram: and I didn't realize that I had actually been living like a drug addict.

00:51:01.740 --> 00:51:03.609 Madhulika Sundaram: because when I came off it

00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:10.090 Madhulika Sundaram: I thought I was losing my mind. I lost about 15 kilos because I couldn't eat.

00:51:10.370 --> 00:51:21.900 Madhulika Sundaram: and if for 15 days I wouldn't eat, and I'd be sweating, and I'd have breakdowns where I'd be punching the walls and screaming because my head would be exploding, and I'd be scared. And

00:51:22.120 --> 00:51:40.350 jeff: well, that's another thing that's been normalized is alcoholism and and drug addiction. They say, it's so. Okay, just do what you want to feel better, but really kind of tint your head a little bit on that and say, Hey, W. What's going on?

00:51:40.520 --> 00:52:01.329 Frank R Harrison: Well, II would say, the biggest lesson for anyone living with epilepsy is that we do know it is based on what's going on in our brain, and it is our brain that is the driver of our lives when it comes to any health issue, and alcoholism is a health issue, indirectly speaking, so if anything, we can become the best

00:52:01.330 --> 00:52:26.789 Frank R Harrison: potential advocates, especially in healthcare. For family friends, colleagues, loved ones whatever, but it never works until you've taken care of yourself first, you know. So that would be my birthday message and gift to everyone out there. Take care of yourself. First, before you take care of anyone else. Okay, either way. What else are you, Madu? Involved in in your work, life or

00:52:26.790 --> 00:52:41.120 Frank R Harrison: or social media. I started painting. So I do expressionism. So whatever's in my head, I'm putting on paper. So it's just my feelings, and it's reduced my seizures by half.

00:52:41.570 --> 00:52:46.289 Madhulika Sundaram: And I'm also working towards being a cricketer.

00:52:47.170 --> 00:53:03.990 Madhulika Sundaram: This. Yeah, it's quite intense, the training. But I find when I exercise and do things like that, the adrenaline and all keeps my, are you a professional player, or

00:53:04.080 --> 00:53:10.349 Madhulika Sundaram: I'm training to be a professional player so hopefully, next year I will be playing

00:53:10.430 --> 00:53:14.899 Madhulika Sundaram: profession at a professional level for county or something in London.

00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:29.190 jeff: Oh, congratulations! Thank you. If I get select. If I'm selected, then the matches will be on

00:53:29.530 --> 00:53:38.450 Frank R Harrison: on television so televised. That's right. You're you're coming from London right now. Right?

00:53:38.690 --> 00:53:41.620 Frank R Harrison: So for you, it's almost 11 pm. Yeah.

00:53:41.700 --> 00:53:48.259 Frank R Harrison: Oh, well, before you go to sleep.

00:53:48.820 --> 00:54:15.139 Frank R Harrison: Oh, wow! Well, ladies and gentlemen, we are all away about 2, 2 and a half minutes before signing off. So I wanna thank obviously Jeff for another good episode of stay stage of epilepsy, Frank, about health episode. And then, Madhu, for your story. Because, if anything, it while you haven't come in with an example of a book or a podcast, or anything, you came in with what's like living in a relatively

00:54:15.490 --> 00:54:35.610 Frank R Harrison: positive life. While combating all the social stigmas around you, and and that in itself is a skill set. I mean, if there's a benefit of having seizures, it's having an inner strength that a lot of people have to learn the hard way, but you haven't. So that, all being said, I honestly sign off by giving an announcement of tomorrow's later shows.

00:54:35.610 --> 00:54:46.520 Frank R Harrison: Tomorrow at 10 Am. We start with philanthropy and focus with Tommy d. 110'clock at Stephen Fry's always Friday, closing out the week at 120'clock with Intangi and Matthew Asvel.

00:54:46.520 --> 00:54:58.660 Frank R Harrison: On Tuesday we have a 5 Pm. With the hard skills. And Dr. Mira Branku, and next Thursday, after you see your weekly episode of dismantle racism with Dr.

00:54:58.660 --> 00:55:15.590 Frank R Harrison: Dr. Caroline Currie, and of course, the conscious consultant hour you will with Sam Leibowitz. You will see the one hundredth episode of Frank about health, and it will be live from Chicago. So I'm looking forward to hiatus right now.

00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:42.089 Frank R Harrison: Well, then, basically, after you'd hear this conscious consultant dower. I'll be there at 5 Pm. Next Thursday with the one hundredth episode. So I hope you all stay tuned because it's going to be in a nice menu in Chicago. Thank you to the 2 of you for being on this show and if I basically wanna go ahead and reach out to you.

00:55:42.090 --> 00:55:58.430 Frank R Harrison: Madu. I usually do that by phone, but I don't think I have your number. So what I will do is I will email you in about an hour hour and a half when I get home and and tell you my feedback. And hopefully, we'll have you on the show again in the near future.

00:55:58.550 --> 00:56:18.560 Frank R Harrison: Oh, it was my pleasure! And of course, Jeff, we will be talking about our next show, which more than likely at this point is going to be in the New Year, because after next week I'm gonna be on hiatus as well. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we're signing off right now. Thanks for watching Frank about how and we'll see you next week.

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