The Hard Skills

Tuesday, May 7, 2024
Facebook Live Video from 2024/05/07 - How to Develop a Compass to Navigate Complexity and Unknowns

Facebook Live Video from 2024/05/07 - How to Develop a Compass to Navigate Complexity and Unknowns


2024/05/07 - How to Develop a Compass to Navigate Complexity and Unknowns

[NEW EPISODE] The Knowledge, Skills, and Dispositions the Workforce Needs to Face an Uncertain World

Tuesdays 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EDT)                              


Listeners will walk away with unique and creative insights on what it means to change, how understanding our limitations can become a strength, and fascinating research on learning, curiosity, and rewiring habits. Lisa will also share some of her frameworks for navigating change, including tools and guideposts that strengthen our ability to face change, important resources for expanding our sense of direction, and her ALIGN system of core values to establish sustainability in growth (and change).

How do you navigate through uncertainty and unchartered territory toward change when the path is unclear and seems to be far from straight-forward? Lisa DeAngelis, a holistic change practitioner and author of Embracing the Unknown, will walk us through how to understand the barriers, develop a compass, and implement directions and guideposts that can help map pathways forward through her ALIGN system.

Lisa DeAngelis is a holistic change practitioner, author of Embracing the Unknown, teacher, and speaker, and a skilled expert in the art of navigating sustainable change and guiding personal transformation. Lisa brings a warm, thoughtful, and creative approach to her work and is sought after for her ability to weave together ideas, coalescing and communicating information in meaningful ways. She is passionate about building meaningful relationships and helping others live authentically, and known for the wisdom and curiosity she brings to conversations on a variety of topics. Lisa is also the Chair of a nonprofit where her approach to leadership is strategic and visionary. Her personal goals include a commitment to "walking her talk" and helping re-envision how leaders can navigate change with more authenticity and intentionality to embrace the process of growth, learning to align with guiding principles and core values that support meaningful and impactful choices.

#EmbracingTheUnknown #Change #Choice

Tune in for this empowering conversation at

Show Notes

Segment  1

In the opening segment of the discussion, Dr. Mira Brancu introduces guest Lisa DeAngelis, who shares her background as a music major with a passion for classical music. Lisa relates her musical experiences to leadership, emphasizing adaptability and the ability to evolve. She discusses the importance of being able to perceive, adjust, and integrate new ideas, as well as the need to continually stretch one's capabilities. Lisa also defines her understanding of holistic approaches, highlighting the idea that change occurs cyclically rather than in straightforward A-to-B transitions.

Segment 2

Lisa then shares her personal journey regarding her well-being, particularly focusing on her jaw issues. Concerned about how this might impact her enjoyment of life and work, she delved into the concept of holistic change. Initially, a conventional doctor suggested jaw reconstructive surgery, which she found unappealing. Turning to a holistic practitioner, she discovered that her jaw issue was merely a prominent symptom of a deeper underlying problem.

Segment 3

Lisa discusses a study involving ants and their colonies, highlighting the resilience they exhibit and how we can draw lessons from nature to apply to our lives. She emphasizes the importance of preparation for challenging conversations and the ability to read a room, redirecting focus after moments of discomfort to steer the team towards its goals. Lisa acknowledges the fear associated with change but suggests that having a compass—a clear direction—can alleviate this fear and maintain focus on the next steps. She concludes by outlining her own guidelines and definitions for each step in the process. Lisa also discusses the importance of minimizing the fear of the unknown by reframing it as a new opportunity rather than something intimidating. This shift in perspective can help us approach unfamiliar situations with curiosity and openness, seeing them as chances for growth and learning.

Segment 4

In conclusion, Lisa highlights three key takeaways: stretch, permission, and perspective when confronting the unknown. She emphasizes the importance of operating within the "stretch zone," where growth occurs, rather than staying within the comfort or panic zones. Lisa suggests changing perspective, either with a micro or macro view, to approach problems differently. Additionally, she stresses the significance of mindful awareness in choosing the direction and manner of movement towards one's desired goals.


00:00:40.910 --> 00:00:46.679 Mira Brancu: How do you navigate through uncertainty and chartered territory towards change

00:00:46.750 --> 00:00:53.790 Mira Brancu: when the path is unclear and seems to be far from straightforward? That is what we're talking about today.

00:00:53.860 --> 00:01:00.550 Mira Brancu: Welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the most nuanced and challenging soft skills

00:01:00.610 --> 00:01:06.439 Mira Brancu: needed to drive significant systemic change to make a real impact through your leadership.

00:01:06.800 --> 00:01:13.310 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mira Broncou. And today our special guest is Lisa Deangelis.

00:01:13.420 --> 00:01:19.240 Mira Brancu: She is a holistic change practicure, and the author of embracing the unknown.

00:01:19.300 --> 00:01:22.610 Mira Brancu: and she'll walk us through how to understand the barriers.

00:01:22.650 --> 00:01:38.280 Mira Brancu: develop a compass and implement directions and guide posts that can help a leader map change pathways for navigating complexity and unknowns, which is a really great topic for Season four's focus on navigating leadership complexity.

00:01:38.570 --> 00:01:53.089 Mira Brancu: So be ready to take notes. I always do reflect deeply and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills muscle, which I think Lisa will really help you do so great to have you on the show. Lisa.

00:01:53.720 --> 00:02:05.000 Lisa DeAngelis: I am so happy to be here and thank you for that introduction. Exploring this. This aspect of change is something I'm incredibly passionate about, so I'm excited to dive into this conversation.

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:25.790 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Now, Lisa and I met like many people, I guess, are are meeting these days on the Internet. We just liked each other's stuff. And we were having, like actual, meaningful conversations online. And one of those con, you know, some of those conversations were specifically about navigating complexity, right? Leadership, complexity.

00:02:26.178 --> 00:02:36.270 Mira Brancu: But I didn't know this about her until I started reading a little bit more about her background. Lisa, you started out as a music major.

00:02:37.650 --> 00:02:39.580 Mira Brancu: Singing and the arts.

00:02:39.660 --> 00:02:46.260 Mira Brancu: So I'm gonna start out with just a little fun icebreaker learning a little bit about you. What is your favorite

00:02:47.940 --> 00:02:49.440 Mira Brancu: song, and why?

00:02:49.990 --> 00:03:14.859 Lisa DeAngelis: I love that question. Yes, I was a classically trained singer, which which most people don't know about me when they first meet me at this po point in my life at this moment in time. But singing was something that grabbed me from a really young age. I started singing with a a children's choir when I was 9 years old, and I had an early, strong passion for classical music. So my favorite song, I Art piece song will have to combine them.

00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:34.020 Lisa DeAngelis: because it's actually Mahler's Third Symphony, which is a really funny response to that question, because most people would say, sort of. I have a favorite song, or I have a favorite art piece. But listening to when I was actually performing in a performance of Mahler's Third Symphony with that children's choir. It really was the first

00:03:34.020 --> 00:03:57.439 Lisa DeAngelis: time I learned to listen with all my senses, and it was a full, sensory, musical experience that has really sucked with me, and to this day it's one of my favorite things to do is is pop on that symphony and let things ride because I feel like there's so much input that comes in in such a meaningful way when we learn to expand our sense of connection with the world

00:03:57.440 --> 00:04:01.979 Lisa DeAngelis: through something like music, and I love that about the experience.

00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:25.579 Mira Brancu: Yeah, out of curiosity. You know, I I guess what I'm wondering is, do you see any connections between being able to suck in everything, through all your senses. In the application of leaders navigating complexity today, it does that have anything to do with even like the the term holistic change, practitioner or holistic change.

00:04:25.580 --> 00:04:26.820 Lisa DeAngelis: Hmm.

00:04:27.440 --> 00:04:48.680 Lisa DeAngelis: yeah, yeah, that's a that's a great segue. Well, musicians themselves have a really interesting set of skills that gets developed. I'll say, in sort of an indirect fashion, because no one's sitting around with a musician saying, Okay, this is how you collaborate. This is how you communicate without speaking. This is how you assimilate to your environment.

00:04:48.680 --> 00:05:06.480 Lisa DeAngelis: But these are all skills that musicians have to learn to work in this field. One has to be able to communicate without direct contact through words like we're used to doing. You learn through eye contact, you learn to actually listen to the way someone's breathing in order to understand how you might work to fit in.

00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:31.400 Lisa DeAngelis: And it's really never a situation where I'm first, your second, you're following me. It's really this dance, this game of what it feels like to listen, to follow, to lead, to pick up passing that baton. So these are all incredible leadership skills. Some people don't know this about musicians, if you've never been in this situation. But part of what a musician is skilled at doing

00:05:31.530 --> 00:05:57.190 Lisa DeAngelis: is going into any situation, and very quickly gauging and assimilating to the environment. So I might have training in one specific area of how I perform a song. But if I move into a space where it's not gonna work. Like, I thought, I have to very quickly make some decisions through input from my environment to say, Okay, what shifts am I gonna make to actually fit, fill, and meet this space in the most meaningful way?

00:05:57.540 --> 00:06:21.190 Lisa DeAngelis: And yes, that's actually what I view holistic change as really doing? Because it actually goes from. Just how do I solve this problem to something much, much deeper than that? It's not just what changes. It's how the change happens. Why is it needed? What's important to allow this change to actually integrate in a sustainable way?

00:06:21.190 --> 00:06:29.860 Lisa DeAngelis: Often it's going to set a new baseline for the way I'm showing up for the way that the people around me are then understanding what's happening.

00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:53.059 Lisa DeAngelis: And that's a really big idea of what we're talking about when we talk about holistic change versus just solving a problem or fixing an issue. We're really looking at it in a way where we're turning it upside down and inside out, and really digging in to look at the the kind of the exciting inner pieces, and still try to figure out what our next steps are.

00:06:53.570 --> 00:07:20.939 Mira Brancu: I love so much about this analogy. It is describing the difference between surface level. Band-aid fixes. That probably still create a cacophony of noise. That you're not addressing versus the harmony and melody all working together, and you have, you have to think, much more deeply and much more integrated and

00:07:20.940 --> 00:07:28.769 Mira Brancu: tracking. What? How the sort of different parts of the system are moving. I'm wondering about

00:07:29.020 --> 00:07:30.250 Mira Brancu: then.

00:07:32.521 --> 00:07:51.478 Mira Brancu: the way that you describe this sounds like part of the work of leadership within change is adapting, fitting, filling, right? Meeting the space. There's a bit more of a followership right and

00:07:52.520 --> 00:07:55.669 Mira Brancu: at the same time, a lot of

00:07:56.369 --> 00:08:00.980 Mira Brancu: earlier career leaders are are receiving the message or feeling like

00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:09.779 Mira Brancu: you know, I want to be valued for who I am as an individual right? And they're receiving messages around authentic leadership

00:08:09.790 --> 00:08:18.209 Mira Brancu: and the and not just adapting or trying to fit in or assimilate, or whatever right which is

00:08:18.790 --> 00:08:20.389 Mira Brancu: a very different

00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:30.480 Mira Brancu: sort of context. And there's there's a reason for that right. There's the the reason behind that is more about feeling valued

00:08:30.510 --> 00:08:40.390 Mira Brancu: right and and feeling like people appreciate value. See you for your contribution. Not so that you're not sort of compromising who you are. How how do you

00:08:41.140 --> 00:08:51.209 Mira Brancu: sort of balance those 2 ideas and feel free to keep going with this analogy? Because I just love it so much. And I think people can really like

00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:54.809 Mira Brancu: latch onto understanding this, you know, in a relatable way.

00:08:54.810 --> 00:09:07.079 Lisa DeAngelis: Absolutely so. So first of all, this for me is where the concept of what's your compass comes in. And this idea of like what helps you reorient to

00:09:07.140 --> 00:09:33.149 Lisa DeAngelis: a core system of alignment, a core system of value. And it goes back to what you're saying. How do we consistently show up as who we are, not completely abandoning that in an effort to assimilate that, I think, is actually the interesting trick. And yes, to expand the music analogy a little bit if I ignore it, and I just show up and do exactly what I did in a different situation, and don't make any adjustments.

00:09:33.150 --> 00:09:52.009 Lisa DeAngelis: I'm going to have a little bit of a difficult time meeting and matching and really kind of working in in harmony with my environment. There, if I swing too far in the other direction, and I completely abandon everything about my own sense of

00:09:52.220 --> 00:09:59.489 Lisa DeAngelis: what I'm performing, how I'm performing it, what the delivery is the opposite happens is that something gets lost

00:09:59.510 --> 00:10:04.039 Lisa DeAngelis: in that translation, and I've I perhaps have swung too far.

00:10:04.110 --> 00:10:06.839 Lisa DeAngelis: You know, it's interesting. When you look at. Actually.

00:10:06.870 --> 00:10:36.869 Lisa DeAngelis: I could get a little bit nerdy running down these rabbit holes. But at at the history of the of a compass of what it is, it's actually a fascinating kind of I don't know, almost like a Testament to ingenuity and curiosity, because really what it was, it was a stone, and the stone had these magnetic capabilities that they realized sort of could could kind of drive them into alignment with the earth's magnetic field.

00:10:36.930 --> 00:11:04.070 Lisa DeAngelis: And so, if we think about the development of this sense of how do we actually realign ourselves with the core structures, so that we have the ability to explore that is so cool to me, cause we're not asking ourselves to abandon anything. And we're definitely not asking ourselves to move so far that we've lost who we are in the process. That, I think, is the really fascinating space

00:11:04.070 --> 00:11:20.929 Lisa DeAngelis: that is really fun to dive into and explore. And you brought up a the concept of adaptability. You know, adaptability is not something that we again have to completely change our baselines to achieve. It's the ability

00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:42.579 Lisa DeAngelis: to see shift and assimilate. That's really the the kind of the special sauce, if you will, of how adaptability shows up. And for me, resilience is another kind of partner piece to that is, what does it mean to be resilient? And it doesn't just mean to revert back.

00:11:42.590 --> 00:12:05.500 Lisa DeAngelis: It means to be elastic, and that's a little. If you look up some of the some of the lexicons and the definitions of resilience. Elasticity is a big piece of that. So how do we stretch ourselves? And resilience really means that ability to stretch in the face of some of these challenges or shifts or experiences where we don't quite know where we're going.

00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:07.140 Mira Brancu: I

00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:11.230 Mira Brancu: totally resonating with all of that. So now

00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:16.260 Mira Brancu: going back to cause, I think this concept of holistic change

00:12:16.560 --> 00:12:25.829 Mira Brancu: is new to a lot of people. So how do you? How do you define it? Then, with all of that context in mind that you've just set up for us. How do you define it?

00:12:25.830 --> 00:12:33.710 Lisa DeAngelis: Hmm, that's really really great. I view it as approaching change by seeing the system as a whole

00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:41.949 Lisa DeAngelis: recognizing that it's a complex structure, and that change will happen in cycles rather than the binary. A to B

00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:50.370 Lisa DeAngelis: simply put, it's a little bit more like rather than focusing on just pruning the branches. We're feeding and nurturing the roots.

00:12:50.430 --> 00:12:58.559 Lisa DeAngelis: That's really what it is, and sometimes we've got to dig a little bit to see how far the roots go. So we can really understand what we're working with.

00:12:58.690 --> 00:13:22.880 Lisa DeAngelis: And that really helps us really again, get a concept of what we're working with in the whole structure situation, because again, it is very easy to just say, if I do a little bit of tweaking here and there, this is gonna bloom really nicely, but we're not really having an eye out for what it means to make sure all aspects of the structure are are moving forward in a way that's healthy

00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.980 Lisa DeAngelis: and sustainable for growth and emergence. Long term.

00:13:28.100 --> 00:13:30.028 Mira Brancu: You are so good with analogies.

00:13:31.227 --> 00:13:32.982 Lisa DeAngelis: Thank you.

00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:34.475 Mira Brancu: Well,

00:13:35.290 --> 00:13:55.892 Mira Brancu: When we were reaching an ad break when we come back. Let's start with kind of how you got to this point of being interested in this, because I think there's there's some, you know, personal, formative moments. And then there's experiences with leaders that you've had. And I'm curious. You know how you got to this point yourself.

00:13:56.420 --> 00:14:08.220 Mira Brancu: we're nearing an outbreak. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest today, Lisa Deangelis, the hard skills, skills, airs. On Tuesdays, at 5 Eastern. We'll be right back in just a moment.

00:16:21.810 --> 00:16:29.140 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Broncou and our guest today, Lisa Deangelis, a holistic change practitioner.

00:16:29.650 --> 00:16:34.580 Mira Brancu: we just got done talking about a great analogy

00:16:34.750 --> 00:16:47.950 Mira Brancu: on what holistic change means to Lisa? And then the application of adaptability and resilience. And we we started sort of applying that

00:16:48.020 --> 00:16:49.005 Mira Brancu: to

00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:51.909 Mira Brancu: to her definition. Now.

00:16:52.090 --> 00:16:53.130 Mira Brancu: Lisa, yeah.

00:16:53.200 --> 00:17:05.040 Mira Brancu: because I was exploring your website and everyone should do that. I'll I'll share that website later on. What I learned about you is that your interest started with a formative childhood experience

00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:11.770 Mira Brancu: with a job problem where a surgeon said that you will need reconstructive jaw surgery.

00:17:11.940 --> 00:17:18.009 Mira Brancu: and you wanted to find an alternative solution that not only addressed your job problem

00:17:18.532 --> 00:17:33.000 Mira Brancu: but in a way that was, you know? Maybe not. Not so invasive. And what? What ended up happening is the solution that you found not only address your job problem, but like to the point of

00:17:33.340 --> 00:17:35.956 Mira Brancu: becoming a singer, a teacher, a speaker?

00:17:36.460 --> 00:17:38.900 Mira Brancu: you know, a strong

00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:56.399 Mira Brancu: things that that require the strong, consistent jaw usage. So you went from like one end to the other because of this alternative outcome, and that was like a massive personal change in transformation. I'm curious about like how do you apply your own perspective of

00:17:57.355 --> 00:18:03.280 Mira Brancu: ballistic change, adaptability, resilience to what you went through, what you see others

00:18:03.290 --> 00:18:04.359 Mira Brancu: go through.

00:18:05.010 --> 00:18:32.659 Lisa DeAngelis: Yes, so yes. And it's funny. Because at 18, when I was having some job problems, I I do actually have a disk issue on one side of my job there is an actual, very physiological thing that goes on with my my body system. This sent just psychosomatic. It wasn't just a little bit of stress induced, or anything like that. It! It was really jarring. I I I felt threatened at a core level to say, Oh, my gosh! What happens if this affects my life

00:18:32.660 --> 00:19:02.280 Lisa DeAngelis: in a way that doesn't enable me to move forward in the way I want to want to, and wanted to at the time. Looking back, it's really fascinating, because this experience really was the foundation for understanding at a truly somatic level. What holistic change is? Because yes, the the surface story is, I went to this surgeon, who's a specialist and said, you need reconst reconstructive jaw surgery. And I said, Whoa, no way. That's not something I'm interested in doing.

00:19:02.460 --> 00:19:32.030 Lisa DeAngelis: But what happened was, I found, a holistic change practitioner who is a certified teacher of the Alexander technique, which I am also a certified teacher of, and the principles of that technique are really foundational in holistic semantic change. How to look at what your body does at a very semantic level to alter effect and enhance performance in whatever area you apply it from performance to work to just overall wellness.

00:19:32.100 --> 00:19:43.060 Lisa DeAngelis: but fascinatingly. When I went to start working with her. I went in very typically of just the way our culture works and said, I have a job problem.

00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:58.490 Lisa DeAngelis: And much to my dismay, she didn't work at all on my job. She was talking to me about how I was standing where my balance was, how I ex. And I I kept thinking, gee, don't you listen to me. The jaw is the problem.

00:19:58.610 --> 00:20:03.269 Lisa DeAngelis: But it turns out the jaw was absolutely not the problem. It was just the loudest symptom.

00:20:03.570 --> 00:20:14.809 Lisa DeAngelis: and that was something that really shifted for me. Once I recognized that what speaks to us the loudest is not always the thing that needs addressing.

00:20:14.870 --> 00:20:32.000 Lisa DeAngelis: even though it doesn't make people feel comfortable all of the time. If you don't directly address that. So this is a little bit of the delicate balance that we're working with when we're working with navigating change and the complexities of that process.

00:20:32.280 --> 00:20:43.570 Lisa DeAngelis: because it would be very easy for me to say you're not listening to me. This is not what I think needs to happen, but in reality I didn't know what I didn't know

00:20:43.760 --> 00:21:07.880 Lisa DeAngelis: and what I didn't know yet know was that my whole system was not working together in a way that really communicated how I could then, as a whole body as a whole person show up in the most meaningful way, and I've seen that in other leadership, and you know, workplace situations. I I was once working with a woman

00:21:08.060 --> 00:21:31.439 Lisa DeAngelis: who who she was doing an incredible job making these shifts in the workplace, and one of them was increasing. I guess what we would call you know, improvements in employee experience. Right? They installed a cool coffee bar, and they change their policy on taking personal days and sick day, and it was, you know, kind of a no questions asked. You use your time as you wish. We encourage people to have a flex

00:21:31.770 --> 00:21:42.679 Lisa DeAngelis: schedule set up in a way that works best for them. But they were confused. She was confused. There wasn't actually much change in her employees. Once they rolled out some of these

00:21:42.760 --> 00:22:10.949 Lisa DeAngelis: benefits? Shall we call them, or enhancements in the workplace environment? And what ended up happening as we worked through the process of trying to figure this out was that it didn't address some of the core cultural challenges in that workplace. People didn't feel like they had the permission to step away and use that cool coffee bar they were unsure of whether they were really, truly not gonna get pushed back for taking a personal day without being sick

00:22:10.950 --> 00:22:30.719 Lisa DeAngelis: or an extra day on top of their vacation, just because right? So we realized that there was still a missing piece there, and on the surface she had quote solved the problem, but it revealed a different layer of the workplace situation that was really important to also look at, but that required her and

00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:55.689 Lisa DeAngelis: the situation to step back a little bit and say, Okay, rather than being so focused on you asked for this, and I gave it to you. Why isn't the result happening is to kind of look at that from a you know, you know, we use these terms all the time. But a 10,000 foot view or a 30,000 foot view. I'm a fan. I worked with a mentor once who would talk about a balcony view right? Like what just happens. If you just go up to the balcony and look down a little bit, you don't have

00:22:55.690 --> 00:23:02.320 Lisa DeAngelis: to go all the way up to 10,000 or 30,000 feet to get that kind of a view, but really just removing yourself enough

00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:19.620 Lisa DeAngelis: so that your perspective shifts. And you can say, Okay, what's really happening here. And how do we really look at the core of what we're challenged with in any given situation? So my personal jaw problem was sort of an entree into this world of what it actually means

00:23:19.620 --> 00:23:33.149 Lisa DeAngelis: to change in a way that's bigger, that's more holistic. And certainly that's more sustainable. Because, as you pointed out. I use my jaw all the time, and if I'm not careful I can still fall back into my old patterns.

00:23:33.150 --> 00:23:52.519 Lisa DeAngelis: But it is up to me to really look at what are all of the things I can put into place, so that even if I have a setback, I'm able to get myself back to a space where I can rebound, and I can really utilize the strengths that I know are in place when my whole system is working as it should.

00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I you know.

00:23:56.310 --> 00:23:58.500 Lisa DeAngelis: I think you're are you? Muted maybe

00:23:58.910 --> 00:24:00.400 Lisa DeAngelis: can't hear you for a moment.

00:24:03.340 --> 00:24:04.480 Mira Brancu: Testing testing.

00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:07.620 Lisa DeAngelis: Hmm. I wonder what happened there?

00:24:15.010 --> 00:24:16.559 Lisa DeAngelis: Okay, let's try that again.

00:24:16.940 --> 00:24:17.839 Mira Brancu: Testing testing.

00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:27.700 Lisa DeAngelis: That was on my side. I'm sorry my computer slipped up something. Oh, no. One of those technology freak out.

00:24:28.170 --> 00:24:31.121 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. What I was saying is that

00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:34.540 Mira Brancu: You know you. You

00:24:35.130 --> 00:24:36.390 Mira Brancu: often

00:24:37.530 --> 00:24:45.290 Mira Brancu: see this with the body where something is going wrong with, let's say.

00:24:45.530 --> 00:24:46.340 Mira Brancu: a

00:24:47.590 --> 00:24:48.660 Mira Brancu: You know, a

00:24:48.770 --> 00:24:53.580 Mira Brancu: hip flexor problem. I'm going to use my fit hip flexor problem right? I have hip flexor problems.

00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:54.495 Mira Brancu: And

00:24:55.770 --> 00:25:04.319 Mira Brancu: you could target it directly, but that hip flexor is connected to so many other parts of your body that if anything else is thrown off

00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:08.739 Mira Brancu: it will cause the hip flexor to overcompensate

00:25:08.850 --> 00:25:14.910 Mira Brancu: right? And then, as you said, it's going to be the loudest where it's over compensating and working the hardest.

00:25:15.780 --> 00:25:20.350 Mira Brancu: even though what you should be targeting is where it started in the first place.

00:25:20.470 --> 00:25:24.910 Mira Brancu: And the body system is the same

00:25:25.060 --> 00:25:32.259 Mira Brancu: as the work system in that way right, Lisa. You're going to be like in my head the queen of Analogies. Now.

00:25:33.886 --> 00:25:34.699 Lisa DeAngelis: That.

00:25:35.060 --> 00:25:37.405 Mira Brancu: I I can't tell you how many

00:25:37.780 --> 00:25:39.170 Mira Brancu: requests I get

00:25:39.270 --> 00:25:47.509 Mira Brancu: for me to come in and quote unquote, fix a civility and respect problems. Among employees.

00:25:47.510 --> 00:25:48.360 Lisa DeAngelis: Hmm.

00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:53.229 Mira Brancu: Then we get into it, and I ask questions about like, Tell me about the leadership team.

00:25:53.260 --> 00:25:54.085 Mira Brancu: Oh,

00:25:55.030 --> 00:25:56.050 Mira Brancu: 2

00:25:56.420 --> 00:25:57.790 Mira Brancu: are vacant

00:25:58.523 --> 00:26:06.269 Mira Brancu: one person is acting temporarily. There's been constant change over in the leadership team.

00:26:06.500 --> 00:26:11.100 Mira Brancu: you know. This one. They've reported him several times.

00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:22.149 Mira Brancu: Hmm, you know. But but you want me to talk to the employees about civilian respect, you know, and it's just a ban again. It's a bandy problem.

00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:23.425 Mira Brancu: And

00:26:24.490 --> 00:26:39.630 Mira Brancu: you know, part part of the goal of web. Whether it's, you know, a physical therapist, an acupuncturist, a doctor, an organizational development psychologist. The change practitioner is to find a way to say

00:26:39.910 --> 00:26:42.139 Mira Brancu: we can fix this, but that won't fix

00:26:42.270 --> 00:26:43.800 Mira Brancu: the bigger problem.

00:26:44.264 --> 00:26:46.329 Mira Brancu: Or we can spend more time

00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:55.959 Mira Brancu: with where it seems to be coming from and start there. Yes, it takes more effort. But the long-term sustainability is what we're after.

00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:59.691 Mira Brancu: Right? So now, yeah, right? So now,

00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:05.349 Mira Brancu: looking at it from an adaptability and a resiliency perspective.

00:27:07.820 --> 00:27:09.720 Mira Brancu: can you actually

00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:14.299 Mira Brancu: improve resiliency in a system.

00:27:15.190 --> 00:27:39.670 Lisa DeAngelis: So I love this question, and I found some fascinating research when I was writing my book. And it was actually a research study on resilience in ants, colonies after disruption. And as soon as I saw that I went oh, cool! What are they? What did ants have to say about resilience. And what I found really interesting is that there were 3 distinct things that that they brought out of this 3 distinct responses, and it was either resistance.

00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:41.280 Lisa DeAngelis: redirection.

00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:43.060 Lisa DeAngelis: or reconstruction.

00:27:43.270 --> 00:28:06.129 Lisa DeAngelis: So some of them really focused on building a strong infrastructure, so they were resistant to any disturbance to their colony system. Some were redirecting energy and resources immediately to prevent disturbance, be disturbance from becoming fatal, and others would focus on rebuilding in the aftermath, when neither of the other 2 were possible, sometimes ending up stronger than they started.

00:28:06.130 --> 00:28:18.149 Lisa DeAngelis: And I think there's so much brilliance to learn from what can we look at from nature, and how we respond to something like resilience. What does that mean when we apply it to our own lives and our own situations?

00:28:18.860 --> 00:28:23.430 Mira Brancu: Super interesting. That's exactly what I want to dig into a little bit more. When we come back

00:28:23.570 --> 00:28:35.449 Mira Brancu: from the break, you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest, Lisa de Angelis. The hard skills airs on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern, and we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.

00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:44.380 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Bronk, who and our guest, Lisa Deangelis, a holistic change practitioner

00:30:44.420 --> 00:30:45.285 Mira Brancu: and

00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:49.401 Mira Brancu: So she just shared this

00:30:50.180 --> 00:31:05.450 Mira Brancu: really interesting research on how ants become more resilient, or or sort of faces the hard decisions around navigating complex situations and where they choose to direct their energy.

00:31:05.760 --> 00:31:24.809 Mira Brancu: and she saw them as choosing to either, be resistant to it in certain situations, and putting their energy in sort of being resistant to change right putting their energy towards redirection and putting their energy towards reconstruction after something has happened which I really

00:31:24.810 --> 00:31:42.480 Mira Brancu: like that analogy and applying it to how people, how we see people doing that in the workspace around navigating challenges and change right? So I'm curious. How do you see this being applied to? Change management?

00:31:42.480 --> 00:32:06.719 Lisa DeAngelis: Yeah. And I, it's funny, just because I I even love the further piece of of this specific study because we think of ants as really hard workers they can carry, you know. I I don't know what this, what the statistic is something like, you know, 100 times their body weight or something like that. Maybe it's not that high, but they can carry significantly more than their body weight. They really like don't stop working. They're just sort of this constant thing. And

00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:15.380 Lisa DeAngelis: I think that's one of the interesting things we can also take away from a study like this is that the the idea that we keep working, that we don't give up.

00:32:15.380 --> 00:32:23.409 Lisa DeAngelis: that we look at kind of what's in our roster, so to speak, of of resources and tools we can use is really important.

00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.280 Lisa DeAngelis: So for me, a couple really practical applications

00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:53.090 Lisa DeAngelis: would be an example of resistance. And you know, it's the only thing I don't love about. This is the word resistant, because it's not resistant to changing. It's resistant to the disruption of change. And I think that's a really important thing to say. Resistance to change is, it's all. It could be a whole nother topic of conversation that I don't want to go too far into today, but resistant to a disruption due to change means that we're really.

00:32:53.090 --> 00:33:12.460 Lisa DeAngelis: really setting up solid infrastructure to strengthen ahead of time. We're using those visionary tools and skills to say what might support me when I go through this. So something I'll often work with people on is the idea that how do you prepare for a difficult conversation?

00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:23.789 Lisa DeAngelis: You rehearse, you sit down, and you think through all of the layers of okay, what might come up here. What might this person ask me, what might I need to address in this call

00:33:23.790 --> 00:33:45.400 Lisa DeAngelis: complex situation, or in this difficult conversation, that I could prepare myself for? I might need to do some research. I might need to really look up some some support for why I've made the choice I've made, or what what I need to do to stand behind where I want to go with this, so that could be an example of resistance to the disruption of change. There

00:33:45.520 --> 00:34:10.880 Lisa DeAngelis: when we're talking about this idea of redirection. It's sort of that for me is the skill of reading a room, real time navigating real time and saying, Okay, I'm sensing that something just happened here. Now, what do I need to do? I need to really look at what just got brought up in this situation, even though the agenda is pulling me in this direction, cause I recognize if I don't redirect

00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:19.500 Lisa DeAngelis: my energy and the resources of this team or this collaborative effort here, we might get too far away from where we're actually trying to go.

00:34:19.750 --> 00:34:47.010 Lisa DeAngelis: An example is of reconstruction would be something. I think a lot of leaders and organizations are dealing with at this point is, how do we repair? How do we repair when things are difficult, when disappointment comes in. When when people make mistakes, when there are wrongs that need to be shifted or a direction, things go too far, and we really need to say, oh, gosh! Let's take a couple of steps back. We need to. We need to really look at what just happened.

00:34:47.010 --> 00:35:03.890 Lisa DeAngelis: and then put some different things in place so that we can ensure this doesn't happen again, that we're not putting other people at risk, that we're not making too rash of decisions before we really understand where we're trying to take this longer term.

00:35:03.930 --> 00:35:12.620 Lisa DeAngelis: And another thing I love about the study and about the analogy of this connection to real world situations is that sometimes we end up stronger.

00:35:12.980 --> 00:35:36.659 Lisa DeAngelis: And I think it's important to recognize that change isn't always going to mean bad, hard scary. It does sometimes, and I absolutely will never take that away from the process of what change is and how difficult it can be when we're in that real time. But I think that's where this compass idea comes back in is what really helps us

00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:58.289 Lisa DeAngelis: stay true to where we're going, and how do we stay aligned with the right direction. And again, that doesn't mean which decisions we make. It's really about the direction. So for me, there are a couple of guide posts that can be really helpful in. Let's say we're orienting this compass, making sure we're staying on track

00:35:58.830 --> 00:36:08.860 Lisa DeAngelis: and keeping in mind what it means to navigate change in a holistic way. And so those 3 guide posts for me are curiosity over assumption number one.

00:36:09.010 --> 00:36:14.510 Lisa DeAngelis: I think a lot of us get into some trap spaces when we realize we've made assumptive

00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:18.000 Lisa DeAngelis: decisions versus really approaching something with curiosity.

00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:39.150 Lisa DeAngelis: Number 2, seeking questions over answers which, again, can be a little bit countercultural, because leaders are quote, supposed to have all the answers. But I think more than that leaders should be knowing how to ask the right questions, and looking at asking themselves the right questions to get them further along the the path.

00:36:39.310 --> 00:36:48.460 Lisa DeAngelis: and then 3, which is perhaps the most difficult one. But again, this is what I I really believe in wholeheartedly, is embracing the not knowing.

00:36:49.210 --> 00:37:00.869 Lisa DeAngelis: It's so difficult because we crave the comfortable, the familiar, and the known. But that unknown is really the space that allows for possibility.

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:19.870 Lisa DeAngelis: and that, I think, is what's fascinating about the whole experience of change. So curiosity over assumption questions over answers, and embracing the not knowing, as these guide posts for what it means to sort of keep your compass in alignment with navigating some of these complexities.

00:37:20.450 --> 00:37:21.210 Mira Brancu: Yeah,

00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:28.520 Mira Brancu: that is I mean, I'm just like nodding over and over. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:37:28.610 --> 00:37:32.060 Mira Brancu: So we've heard

00:37:32.200 --> 00:37:35.409 Mira Brancu: those things before, and yet

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.200 Mira Brancu: It's still challenging to do like. It sounds easy, but.

00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:41.760 Lisa DeAngelis: It's good.

00:37:42.050 --> 00:37:44.960 Mira Brancu: Alright. That's why we're talking about the hard skills, people

00:37:46.190 --> 00:37:46.985 Mira Brancu: hard.

00:37:48.410 --> 00:37:49.430 Mira Brancu: what?

00:37:50.150 --> 00:37:55.200 Mira Brancu: What gets in the way of leaning into those guideposts?

00:37:55.420 --> 00:37:56.490 Mira Brancu: And

00:37:57.520 --> 00:38:06.869 Mira Brancu: how can leaders? This is a more important question in in my mind. Given the challenges of leaning into those guide posts? How can leaders know

00:38:07.080 --> 00:38:10.140 Mira Brancu: that they're going in the right, that right direction.

00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:11.360 Mira Brancu: If

00:38:11.680 --> 00:38:14.189 Mira Brancu: you're also embracing, not knowing.

00:38:15.457 --> 00:38:24.520 Lisa DeAngelis: yeah, that's a great question. So I think, I'll start there and then i'll, i'll go to some of the the barriers. You know the unknown.

00:38:24.810 --> 00:38:27.580 Lisa DeAngelis: even when I just say that the unknown

00:38:28.010 --> 00:38:39.169 Lisa DeAngelis: what do we think of immediately we go, huge, big like I get the image of like a black hole of space in front of me. The unknown is this huge big thing out there? Right?

00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:56.130 Lisa DeAngelis: And that feels scary hard. You know, all of these, these, these qualifiers and adjectives we can place on the unknown that is so big and huge. But what if we just reclassify that? And to just say, the unknown is just something I don't yet know.

00:38:56.410 --> 00:39:11.569 Lisa DeAngelis: It is just a new fact, a new state, a new choice, a new this. And so number one, that starts to create a little bit of difference in terms of this big unknown. And the unknown is just something I haven't yet experienced.

00:39:11.580 --> 00:39:22.439 Lisa DeAngelis: and we have all had an enormous amount of experience with things we haven't yet experienced. It's what our whole lives have been about. It's just we forget that.

00:39:22.890 --> 00:39:32.210 Lisa DeAngelis: And every time we come up to this threshold we think, oh, gosh! I've never done this before, but we have done this before. We do this time and time and time again.

00:39:32.210 --> 00:39:53.620 Lisa DeAngelis: So one piece of the unknown is establishing what I call proof loops this idea that we've done this before. Let's wire in the fact that I have done something I didn't know how to do, and it didn't end up going in a sour direction. I actually did learn something. It brought us further toward where we wanted to go in this specific situation.

00:39:53.620 --> 00:40:01.690 Lisa DeAngelis: But it's very easy to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did that before we really have to take the opportunity to say, Okay, what does it feel like to have done it?

00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:13.779 Lisa DeAngelis: What does it mean to have done it? And let's actually celebrate that. We've done it because we don't do a lot of that celebration piece of it which is the last part of the wiring. It's very easy for our system to forget.

00:40:13.780 --> 00:40:38.230 Lisa DeAngelis: We have a lot of negative bias built in Dr. Mccanson's research on negative bias is really fascinating. He he refers to it as our systems are like Velro for bad experiences and teflon for good ones. You know, those good ones just kinda slide right off, but the bad ones really stick with us. So we have to work very hard to counteract these negative biases, and the more we can actually wire in

00:40:38.230 --> 00:41:02.950 Lisa DeAngelis: the positives, the good things. And I'm not talking about the huge wins. When you broke through some major visionary. Cha, I'm talking about where an employee you actually felt that sense of that employee was seen, heard, valued, and you were a part of that. That is an important moment to say, Okay, look, we can do this. We can do this at the one on one level, and then we can go ahead and do it

00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:04.559 Lisa DeAngelis: on the broader level.

00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:34.439 Lisa DeAngelis: The other thing about the unknown that I feel is really interesting comes from the work of Ferris Store, who wrote a wonderful book called The The Discomfort Zone. And really, what is so fascinating is she talks about what she titles Bmds. Brief moments of discomfort before you move over into the unknowns, and more often than not. The most difficult part about change is not the big unknown out there that's actually fun. That's exciting. What's out there is on the other side.

00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:45.840 Lisa DeAngelis: The difficult part are those brief moments of discomfort when we choose to step away from something we know into something that is less familiar.

00:41:46.180 --> 00:42:01.359 Lisa DeAngelis: and that is an important distinction to make, too, is, it's important, I think, to say, is it really that whatever is next is so big and hard, and that and scary that that's what it is. Or is this brief moment where we need to go?

00:42:01.660 --> 00:42:22.999 Lisa DeAngelis: This is not gonna feel wonderful, but it's an important step to get to the other side. That distinction I feel like is really really important. For us. And you know, in terms of the barriers, I'll just briefly mention cause. There's more to get into here if we want to go in that direction. But our habits and patterns are one of the biggest barriers and challenge we have.

00:42:23.310 --> 00:42:31.640 Lisa DeAngelis: and it's it's a blessing and a curse, so to speak, because the whole reason we are so efficient is because we have habits and patterns.

00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:44.230 Lisa DeAngelis: But if we're not aware of them, ignoring the barriers leaves us open to all sorts of different layers of vulnerability. Or that's when we can become blindsided because the things we don't address

00:42:44.230 --> 00:43:11.639 Lisa DeAngelis: will eventually become limitations. So a lot of those barriers. And I'm not saying yourself imposed. I'm saying they're just a piece of our our habits, our patterns that we do need to shed some light on in order to ensure that we are setting ourselves up for moving forward in the most I guess you know. Easy. I guess I hate that word, but easy way as we can, considering how difficult the process can be.

00:43:12.200 --> 00:43:19.149 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. I mean, just think about your life. I think about my life listeners think about you know your lives.

00:43:19.683 --> 00:43:24.670 Mira Brancu: What just keeps coming up and over and over as kind of

00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:53.440 Mira Brancu: our challenges. They're usually about the same thing, and you choose whether you lean into it or not. Right you choose what? And if every time you choose not to lean into it, it's gonna come up again, because that's your habiting pattern, and you're not paying attention to it right? But it's usually because we're avoiding some small experience of discomfort. We know it's going to be uncomfortable. We we know it's gonna be rocky or bumpy.

00:43:53.590 --> 00:44:10.659 Mira Brancu: So when we come back after this and break let's pull it all together. To sort of think through. What might you do as your next step. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Lisa de Angelis, and we'll be right back in just a moment.

00:46:14.100 --> 00:46:23.009 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabaku and our guest today, Lisa de Angelis, who's a holistic change practitioner we've been talking about

00:46:23.250 --> 00:46:29.909 Mira Brancu: leaning into the unknown, overcoming the barrier, or desire to just

00:46:30.250 --> 00:46:34.600 Mira Brancu: not go there because of discomfort, and I will tell you that

00:46:34.640 --> 00:46:40.549 Mira Brancu: if you, if you truly are honest with yourself, and think about every time you learn something.

00:46:40.720 --> 00:46:52.999 Mira Brancu: It wasn't because you were comfortable. It wasn't because you avoided it. It was because you navigated something that was really scary or uncomfortable.

00:46:53.600 --> 00:46:56.989 Mira Brancu: and you came out with a lesson learned that you applied

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:01.889 Mira Brancu: right in your life. I think about that all the time. And I think about.

00:47:01.990 --> 00:47:06.550 Mira Brancu: you know, if if you took even mental health intervention.

00:47:07.164 --> 00:47:10.800 Mira Brancu: what is the treatment for anxiety, the most common

00:47:10.950 --> 00:47:21.830 Mira Brancu: evidence-based treatment for anxiety is exposure therapy. What does that mean? It means not avoiding avoidance keeps the anxiety going. It is

00:47:21.830 --> 00:47:41.680 Mira Brancu: finding a way to slowly dip your toe in further further and move into the area of discomfort or fear and practice, staying there until it's no longer the same level of fear, right? So that is the same concept when you're applying it to navigating the unknown.

00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:49.630 Mira Brancu: So, Lisa, I know you have lots of really cool frameworks. I'm curious. What? What are some quick takeaways?

00:47:50.142 --> 00:47:55.449 Mira Brancu: That our listeners can think about when they are navigating an unknown

00:47:56.760 --> 00:48:03.190 Mira Brancu: How how do they think about this? What? What is a way? A practical way for for them to start thinking about this.

00:48:03.670 --> 00:48:30.610 Lisa DeAngelis: Yes, that's great. And you you set this up perfectly because there are sort of 3 resource skills I'll call them. Shall we call them soft skills or hard skills. But anyway, through, you know this framework that I use. These 3 things can be used as sort of of levers, right that we can exercise in conjunction with each other, to really help support this process. So they are stretch permission and perspective.

00:48:30.610 --> 00:48:58.040 Lisa DeAngelis: So this concept of stretch is exactly what you were talking about. Here we have a comfort zone, and we have a discomfort zone or a panic zone, as I'll sometimes call it, and when we're in our comfort zone it's safe. It's easy. It's familiar, right? That panic zone is when we are flipped all the way over into freak out mode. Right? It's too much. We're anxious. We're fearful all of these kinds of things. Some people will say you're either in your comfort zone, or you're in your panic zone. I think there's a stretch zone.

00:48:58.040 --> 00:49:13.200 Lisa DeAngelis: And that's sort of this interesting sweet spot. The stretch zone is where we change. We can't change when we're panicked, and we can't change when we're really comfortable. So exercising this stretch, and the word is stretch for a reason. Right? It is malleable. It is something we can actually strengthen.

00:49:13.430 --> 00:49:26.289 Lisa DeAngelis: and one of the ways to do that is to look at our edges. What does it take to move from our comfort zone into this stretch zone, feeling a little bit uncomfortable. We're feeling stretched there, but not so far that we're panicked.

00:49:26.290 --> 00:49:52.159 Lisa DeAngelis: and that might start like a really narrow space, and we might say, Oh, shoot already in panic, because I moved too quickly through there. So our work is to figure out how to stay in that stretch zone and actually expand it. Because that's where we're going to experience a lot of these changes. And so as we combine this concept of stretch or stretch zone, we need to utilize 2 other things, and those are permission and perspective.

00:49:52.160 --> 00:50:20.769 Lisa DeAngelis: Permission is an interesting one, because sometimes we are waiting for permission from an external source internally, do we really think this is okay to do or try and so permission is a really interesting one. But again, it's not like all of a sudden we have permission, and we've jumped from 0 to 100 permission functions a little bit like a ladder. It's sort of like we climb up a little bit. Maybe we have a step or 2 down, and then we climb up further, and as we give ourselves more permission, we can stretch more.

00:50:20.770 --> 00:50:29.309 Lisa DeAngelis: and then we can take a little more permission and maybe stretch more or less, or we might need to take a few runs down, and those things kind of work in conjunction with each other.

00:50:29.680 --> 00:50:42.589 Lisa DeAngelis: The last piece of this is perspective, and I referenced earlier. This idea of a 10,000 foot view of balcony view. But more than that, my concept of perspective really is this idea of zooming in and zooming out.

00:50:42.590 --> 00:51:06.189 Lisa DeAngelis: and what does it feel like if we zoom in? And then we say, I'm really zoomed in. What happens if I zoom out, and what do I see now? And this is a skill, this ability to zoom in. Look at the micro. Zoom out! Look at the macro! Where do I need to give permission or take permission. Where do I need to stretch more? Where do I need to pull back the reins a little bit, and you can see these 3 sort of concepts start to work

00:51:06.230 --> 00:51:29.699 Lisa DeAngelis: in conjunction with each other, to create this experience of change that isn't so much like do or die now or never A to B, but really becomes this like, okay, now, I'm moving here. Now, I need to adjust here. And this constant concept of being aware, choosing our direction, reorienting and reassessing, and then repeating, because it doesn't happen

00:51:29.700 --> 00:51:41.980 Lisa DeAngelis: 1 one time through A to B. It really takes a lot of that shift. And that's something I think we need to normalize, because a lot of people feel like if they have one chance, and if they don't make the right decision. That's it.

00:51:41.980 --> 00:52:10.089 Lisa DeAngelis: But what happens if we really refrain this idea of you're gonna make a wrong decision as what is the best decision I can make in this situation that allows me to learn what I need to do, then to move to the next space. It's sort of this next right thing, and that then becomes a little bit less like right and wrong, or you're in the right or wrong direction, as much as saying, Oh, I'm a little off. I need to reorient in this direction. I need to reorient in this direction.

00:52:10.240 --> 00:52:19.100 Lisa DeAngelis: and it becomes a much more actually fluid way to navigate the process of complex change than sitting there and saying.

00:52:19.240 --> 00:52:20.100 Lisa DeAngelis: That's it.

00:52:20.970 --> 00:52:22.576 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. You know.

00:52:24.560 --> 00:52:32.588 Mira Brancu: as I'm thinking about this, the the sort of relatable experience that I had was also

00:52:33.748 --> 00:52:37.011 Mira Brancu: again related to physical therapy. You know, I

00:52:37.770 --> 00:52:40.009 Mira Brancu: and personal training. So

00:52:40.820 --> 00:52:52.869 Mira Brancu: out of physical therapy, there was this goal to strengthen my back muscles. Okay? And so they said. You know you should be able to do a pull up, which I think is

00:52:53.150 --> 00:52:59.110 Mira Brancu: kind of crazy at my age. But I was like, okay, whatever you know. And so I've been working with a personal trainer to

00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:05.190 Mira Brancu: strengthen my back muscles. And what we're doing is literally evaluating.

00:53:06.140 --> 00:53:11.655 Mira Brancu: How much can I do without over exerting myself and then pulling something.

00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:15.660 Mira Brancu: and if if I over exert and I'm I'm feeling it

00:53:15.710 --> 00:53:17.830 Mira Brancu: to back up a little.

00:53:17.980 --> 00:53:26.289 Mira Brancu: knowing that that is past my stretch zone, as you call it, right and continue tinier steps

00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:36.720 Mira Brancu: right for me, and everybody has sort of like their own sort of step ladder. And it's different for each person. Some people can make massive games.

00:53:36.830 --> 00:53:42.889 Mira Brancu: you know, doing the same thing that I'm doing, and for me. It takes tinier steps, and that's okay.

00:53:43.030 --> 00:53:48.540 Mira Brancu: As long as I'm moving forward, and I feel there's progression. But I'm tracking very closely.

00:53:48.810 --> 00:54:11.889 Mira Brancu: But I also have a coach. Who's doing this this thing for me? Who's offering me scaffolding, and, you know, helping to support me so. All of that to say you don't have to do this alone. If all of this sounds nebulous to you, this is what coaches do. This is what consultants do. And so, if you want to learn more

00:54:12.110 --> 00:54:15.299 Mira Brancu: specifically about what Lisa does and how she can help you?

00:54:15.670 --> 00:54:17.949 Mira Brancu: Where can they find out more about you

00:54:18.080 --> 00:54:19.590 Mira Brancu: and how to apply this.

00:54:19.943 --> 00:54:47.840 Lisa DeAngelis: So my website is the best place to start. Just www, Lisa There's a wealth of information and resource there. You can also find information about my book, which I encourage you to check out. There's obviously so much more than I could. Then I could begin to cover here. But I just love what you were saying. Because this this really is a big piece of pulling it all together.

00:54:47.840 --> 00:55:12.520 Lisa DeAngelis: and what you just mentioned, I think, is important to reiterate is that sometimes this is where we go back to this like what are my habits? What are my patterns. What are the barriers here? And to just kind of pull in one more, you know, directional analogy is to say, it's a little bit like, you know, upgrading your software system on your GPS to sort of say, Oh, I'm at a completely different situation now. We need to upgrade these maps, and I can do a lot more intricate

00:55:12.520 --> 00:55:36.540 Lisa DeAngelis: now that I actually know what's happening. And so I think that's an important aspect. To to bring in. To fold this altogether is to just say, all of this requires us to just really continue to pull in, pull out really consistently. Look. And that is actually the fun. That's the exciting part of navigating change is that it is not like we are on a one way path. Once we make this one decision.

00:55:36.540 --> 00:55:48.770 Lisa DeAngelis: we've always got the ability to make different choices, and that, I think, is the excitement of what change does and how change can lead us to bigger possibilities than we could ever have imagined.

00:55:49.080 --> 00:56:14.169 Mira Brancu: Absolutely all right. So you've gotten many gold nuggets from Lisa today? Listeners, what did you take away? And importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week, based on what you learn from Lisa. Share it with us on Linkedin. We are there, and we'd love to hear from you and share you on and also, we're also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter twitch all over the place.

00:56:14.170 --> 00:56:21.369 Mira Brancu: We're also on apple podcasts and spotify, please, subscribe, go to the podcast, leave a review, share with others.

00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:38.190 Mira Brancu: The stuff. We talk about is also, part of our research, based strategic leadership pathway model that we teach in the Towerscope Leadership Academy, a private coaching and learning community for socially conscious leaders in healthcare, academia, tech and stem industries to learn more.

00:56:38.300 --> 00:56:56.199 Mira Brancu: Go to go, and click on Leadership Academy. Thank you to talk radio, dot. Nyc, I'm Dr. Mira Branco of the hard skill show, and thank you to Lisa de Angelis for being a wonderful guest. Have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from bye. Everybody.

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