EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Sunshine Witchski, trailblazing psychic medium, soul healer, spiritual advisor, High Priestess, Reiki Master, author, and recovering alcoholic.
Widely known as the Pink-Haired Sober Witch, Sunshine lives at an unusual crossroads of worlds. By day, she is an award-winning software product manager and business operations expert who has helped major corporations reimagine process and foster innovation. By calling, she is a wisdom keeper for witches in recovery, bridging two communities that have long sat uneasily beside each other and showing that the practical and the magickal, the sober and the sovereign, were never truly separate paths.
Sunshine is the founder of The Sovereign Phoenix, a recognized religious nonprofit dedicated to creating protected spiritual space for witches in recovery, where members gather for weekly recovery circles, seasonal and moon rituals, and community events that nurture connection, healing, and personal sovereignty.
She is also the visionary behind Illuminate: The Unschool of Sober Witchcraft, an immersive learning platform that blends practical recovery tools with spiritual and magickal wisdom. Her book, Sober Witch Life: A Magickal Guide to Recovery, written over her first five years of sobriety, weaves journal prompts, exercises, and magickal practices into a healing guidebook for anyone walking both paths. On The Witchual Hour Radio Show on Passenger Recovery Radio and her own Sober Witch Life Podcast, she brings music, magick, and conversation together for those finding their way home. Living in the Detroit suburbs with her partner, his kids, and five beloved cats, she carries a line from Pema Chödrön as a quiet north star: only when we know our own darkness can we sit in the darkness with others.
Together, Sam and Sunshine explore what it looks like to reclaim your magick without reaching for the bottle and to build community that holds the recovery journey and the mystical path as one. They discuss the specific terrain of being a witch in recovery, the way shadow work and sobriety deepen each other when they are allowed to meet, and why the people most often cast to the margins (the witchy, the recovering, the queer, the misfit mystics) may be exactly the ones carrying the medicine this moment needs.
They also look at what it means to build a nonprofit sacred space in a culture that often forces people to choose between their spirituality and their healing, and what Sunshine’s own journey has taught her about sovereignty as a daily practice rather than a destination. This episode is an invite for anyone walking an unconventional spiritual road to recognize that your path is not too strange, your darkness is not too much, and your recovery, in whatever form it takes, is itself the most sacred magick you will ever cast.
Tune in and share your own questions and comments about how to find your own magick on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://www.sunshinereadings.com/about-sunshine/
Sam Liebowitz opens this Halloween-season episode with a blog post on how authenticity creates real safety in relationships: when we try to please others instead of aligning with our own truth, people sense the hollowness underneath, whereas honest, heart-centered presence builds trust and connection, and true kindness differs from people-pleasing by where it comes from within. He then welcomes Sunshine Witsky, the pink-haired "sober witch," who traces her path from a devout Catholic upbringing and a childhood shaken by being denied a place on the altar, through the welcoming curiosity she found in a metaphysical shop at sixteen, to a witchcraft practice that gives her unwavering permission to explore and embrace her own sovereign truth. She also opens up about how years of coping through overwork and drinking kept her from living as her authentic self until a family health crisis in 2019 sparked her recovery, a journey that now fuels her dedication to creating sacred, supportive space for witches in recovery.
In the second segment, Sunshine shares that the hardest part of recovery, even after seven years, is the grief that comes with changing your whole life, and she describes how a spirit's call during a burnout moment in 2024 led her to leave corporate work and dedicate herself to witches in recovery, a calling that has since drawn thousands of curious seekers, packed circles, and a book that keeps finding readers. She explains that shadow work and the honest self-inquiry at the heart of witchcraft have been central to her sobriety, that every person stepping out of addiction struggles to be true to who they are, and that highly sensitive, empathic, and neurodivergent people may be especially vulnerable when no one has taught them how to navigate their sensitivity. Looking ahead, she envisions a world where any witch can join a recovery circle within the hour and find safe, substance-free community locally, offers Halloween and Samhain events and a November grief circle for the tender holiday season, urges listeners to lovingly speak up when someone they care about may be struggling, and shares that what moves her most is watching people soften once they feel accepted exactly as they are.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:57.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my Conscious co-creators! Good morning, good evening, wherever you're tuning in from. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today.
00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:20.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We have a fun show in store for you today with our very own witch to help us to ring in Halloween this year. And I'm looking forward to bringing her on in just a moment. But first, of course, we have our blog post from a couple of years ago. And this one, again, I think this one might be pretty apropos for our conversation today.
00:01:21.910 --> 00:01:27.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, today's blog post is entitled, For Others to Feel Safe
00:01:27.830 --> 00:01:32.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With us, we need to be truthful with ourselves.
00:01:33.570 --> 00:01:36.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We sometimes do things to please others.
00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:40.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To try to make them feel safe around us.
00:01:40.950 --> 00:01:43.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We think we can make them happy this way.
00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:50.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet it really rarely turns out that way, for a simple re… very simple reason.
00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:53.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One that we overlook all the time.
00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:59.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It might be counterintuitive, yet it does make sense.
00:01:59.360 --> 00:02:05.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we are trying to please others, we are not being authentic.
00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:08.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We are not standing up for ourselves.
00:02:09.530 --> 00:02:15.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Ultimately, we are not being truthful to who we are.
00:02:16.750 --> 00:02:20.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Not truly being in alignment with who we are.
00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:22.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And people feel it.
00:02:22.940 --> 00:02:26.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe not consciously, but they feel it anyway.
00:02:27.250 --> 00:02:32.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That feeling comes up as a sense of untrustworthiness.
00:02:32.780 --> 00:02:36.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A sense that we are not really being honest.
00:02:38.040 --> 00:02:43.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So while we think we are doing something to make the other person feel better.
00:02:43.670 --> 00:02:47.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They actually don't, because they feel
00:02:48.370 --> 00:02:51.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That they don't trust, that they can't trust us.
00:02:51.610 --> 00:03:07.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The real truth is that when we are truly being authentic and showing up in alignment with how we feel, the other person feels better, even if it does not go along with what they say.
00:03:08.200 --> 00:03:17.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we are being truthful to ourselves, the other person can feel it, and that creates a sense of safety.
00:03:17.940 --> 00:03:21.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A sense that we can be trusted to tell the truth.
00:03:22.110 --> 00:03:27.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we will be honest regardless of their own desires and feelings.
00:03:28.260 --> 00:03:32.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that is what creates true safety.
00:03:32.970 --> 00:03:42.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The honesty, the alignment with ourselves, brings the connection we desire instead of trying to be who we think
00:03:42.690 --> 00:03:44.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Others want us to be.
00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:51.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So the hardest part is really just being honest with ourselves.
00:03:51.530 --> 00:03:59.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To be truthful about what we want and how we feel, so we can express it to another person.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we feel that we are in alignment with ourselves.
00:04:04.380 --> 00:04:07.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The other person will feel it instantly.
00:04:07.770 --> 00:04:11.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our words will carry the energy of our truth.
00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:16.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The posture we hold will reflect that as well.
00:04:17.329 --> 00:04:22.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our whole being will speak volumes.
00:04:22.400 --> 00:04:25.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Even before we say a word.
00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:33.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that is what people want more than anything else.
00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:38.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So how can you be more truthful to others?
00:04:40.830 --> 00:04:47.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do you know how it feels to… like… what it feels like to be in true alignment with yourself?
00:04:50.330 --> 00:04:52.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… This,
00:04:53.680 --> 00:05:08.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: blog post came out of a conversation with my wife a couple of years ago, and it… it probably was not just out of one conversation, it was probably out of multiple conversations.
00:05:08.590 --> 00:05:20.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because my wife has, is real… Conscious and present about
00:05:20.790 --> 00:05:28.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Honesty and authenticity, and what it means to, really speak your truth.
00:05:29.090 --> 00:05:39.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… It was interesting, because it also came up in ceremony as… Also embodiment.
00:05:40.050 --> 00:05:43.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that, when we're living in alignment.
00:05:44.780 --> 00:05:50.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With who we truly are, and what our real truth is inside.
00:05:51.510 --> 00:05:54.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Then there's an alignment that happens.
00:05:55.700 --> 00:05:57.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's so subtle.
00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:06.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… And it… not… You know, not necessarily very obvious, though it can be.
00:06:07.430 --> 00:06:13.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: where… Our words sound right. Our words sound true.
00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:18.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How we hold them. How we are present to the conversation.
00:06:19.710 --> 00:06:21.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How we're just showing up?
00:06:24.260 --> 00:06:27.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just naturally feels more trustworthy.
00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:33.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because when someone says something and they're just trying to please you.
00:06:35.030 --> 00:06:43.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's an inauthenticity about it. There's a hollowness to the feeling that's underneath the words.
00:06:45.050 --> 00:06:51.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, if someone's not really present, And they're just sort of…
00:06:51.570 --> 00:06:55.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Taking what the person says at face value.
00:06:55.740 --> 00:07:03.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: they may say, oh, yeah, wonderful, thank you so much, I really appreciate it, and they'll just… ignore…
00:07:04.260 --> 00:07:06.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That underlying feeling that they may have.
00:07:09.650 --> 00:07:12.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But still, it registers in the unconscious.
00:07:12.960 --> 00:07:19.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It still registers sort of deep inside of us that something is not quite right.
00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:37.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And we may not notice it in the moment, we may gloss over it, we may skip it and not challenge them. And, you know, normally when someone says something like that, we actually don't challenge them. We don't kind of say, do you really mean that?
00:07:37.870 --> 00:07:42.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because, you know, we don't want to embarrass the person, we don't want to…
00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:46.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Really dig into things too much.
00:07:47.760 --> 00:07:55.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But in the end, does that really serve us? Does that serve the relationship?
00:07:56.130 --> 00:08:10.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, look, there's lots of times, like, that we're in a superficial connection with someone, and, you know, we're just passing somebody on the street, or in the… in a… in a…
00:08:10.610 --> 00:08:22.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: office or something, and we may never see the person again, so… is it really that important that they're not being 100% authentic? No, probably not. It's not going to affect our lives.
00:08:23.460 --> 00:08:32.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But when it comes to the people who are really close to us, when it comes to those people who we're in contact on a regular basis.
00:08:34.330 --> 00:08:38.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that's where… Being authentic, and that's where…
00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:45.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, seeing past the pleasing mode, is really helpful.
00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:55.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, look, many of us are brought up as people pleasers. I've been a people pleaser most of my life. It's a very hard habit to break.
00:08:56.780 --> 00:09:05.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: However, I do believe that that kindness goes a long way, and I do believe in being compassionate, so sometimes
00:09:06.490 --> 00:09:15.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: kindness can be mistaken for people-pleasing. It is a fine line, and that fine line really
00:09:15.130 --> 00:09:22.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Has to do with the underlying energy, the inflection, the… where it is coming from.
00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:26.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And if it's truly coming from our heart, then it is authentic.
00:09:27.060 --> 00:09:34.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But if you really don't like the person, if you really like, oh, I gotta… I can't wait to get out of this conversation.
00:09:34.900 --> 00:09:41.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you're just saying something to be polite, then it's inauthentic. Then… then… then you're not truly being kind.
00:09:43.280 --> 00:09:48.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, that's sort of where this blog post came from.
00:09:48.490 --> 00:09:50.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I do kind of feel…
00:09:51.530 --> 00:09:56.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That it's something that… that is not touched upon a lot.
00:09:57.010 --> 00:10:00.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's why I just wanted to bring out this idea that
00:10:00.930 --> 00:10:06.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we're truly being in alignment with ourselves, People can feel it.
00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:16.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And when we're not being in alignment with our true selves, people also feel it. It doesn't always register consciously.
00:10:18.030 --> 00:10:21.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it registers… underneath.
00:10:22.060 --> 00:10:28.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so that's why, it's really important to think about
00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:31.599 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we're in conversation with someone.
00:10:31.970 --> 00:10:35.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How in alignment with our truth are we being?
00:10:35.680 --> 00:10:42.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Doesn't mean we have to blurt out, you know, unvarnished truth if it's going to be hurtful.
00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:51.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it means maybe not saying something we would normally say if it's not truly how we feel, or maybe…
00:10:52.490 --> 00:11:01.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Find a softer, gentler way to say what we truly feel, rather than just hurting the person's feelings.
00:11:01.850 --> 00:11:16.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, and I see my old dear friend and loyal listener, Harris, tuning in on LinkedIn, and it says, nice to be tuned in, Sam. Thank you, Harris. Glad you're with us today. Please feel free to post your comments and questions throughout the show.
00:11:16.630 --> 00:11:25.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Anyway, that's my blog post for this week. Again, it is entitled, For Others to Feel Safe With Us, We Need to Be Truthful With Ourselves.
00:11:25.770 --> 00:11:39.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course, you can always find my blog posts on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com, and of course, on the station's website at TalkRadio.nyc slash blog.
00:11:40.220 --> 00:11:49.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And don't forget, if you do like my blog post, I do have a book out, Everyday Awakening, just reminding you, could be a nice Christmas present for people this year.
00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:57.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright, it is now my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show Sunshine Witsky.
00:11:57.410 --> 00:12:07.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Trailblazing psychic medium, soul healer, spiritual advisor, high priestess, Reiki master, author, and recovering alcoholic.
00:12:08.390 --> 00:12:26.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Widely known as the pink-haired, sober witch, Sunshine lives at an unusual crossroads of worlds. By day, she is an award-winning software product manager and business operations expert who helps major corporations reimagine, process, and foster innovation.
00:12:27.380 --> 00:12:46.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: By calling, she is a wisdom keeper for witches in recovery, bridging two communities that have long sat uneasily beside each other, and showing that the practical and the magical, the sober and the sovereign, were never truly separate paths.
00:12:46.490 --> 00:13:01.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sunshine is the founder of The Sovereign Phoenix, a recognized religious nonprofit dedicated to creating protected spiritual space for witches in recovery, where members gather for weekly recovery circles.
00:13:01.920 --> 00:13:08.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Seasonal and moon rituals and community events that nurture connection, healing, and personal sovereignty.
00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:20.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: She is also the visionary behind Illuminate, the unschool of Sober Witchcraft, an immersive learning platform that blends practical recovery tools with spiritual and magical wisdom.
00:13:21.050 --> 00:13:36.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Her book, Sober Witch Life, A Magical Guide to Recovery, written over her first five years of sobriety, weaves journal prompts, exercises, and magical practices into a healing guidebook for anyone walking both paths.
00:13:36.630 --> 00:13:50.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: On the Witchell Hour radio show on passenger Recovery Radio in her own Sober Witch Life podcast, she brings music, magic, and conversation together for those finding their way home.
00:13:50.400 --> 00:14:10.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Living in the Detroit suburbs with her partner, his kids, and five beloved cats, she carries a line from Pema Chodron as a North Star. Only when we know our own darkness can we sit in the darkness with others. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Sunshine.
00:14:10.380 --> 00:14:13.609 Sunshine: Hi, Sam, it's an absolute pleasure and delight to be here with you today.
00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:26.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's a pleasure to have you, it's a pleasure to have you. So, my audience knows I always like to start off with some background to just kind of give people a sense of
00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:43.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know, where you come from. So, I'm just curious, like, did you know you were a witch from, like, you know, early in life? I mean, is magical practice sort of been something that you've always been interested in? Is it something that you developed later on in life?
00:14:44.690 --> 00:14:53.949 Sunshine: You know, I get this question often, and I'm always so fascinated at how the question is asked because it
00:14:54.050 --> 00:14:55.560 Sunshine: It changes
00:14:55.570 --> 00:15:15.329 Sunshine: how I see the answer, right? And so you asked, like, have I always… you know, I… no, I mean, when I was a little kid and, you know, hanging out on the playground at school, I wasn't, you know, casting spells and doing magic, but I was raised in a Catholic household. I, you know, I went to Catholic school for 13 years of my life, and so I learned that
00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:23.719 Sunshine: how, like, potent and beautiful ritual was from a very young age, right? I learned how ritual was, you know.
00:15:23.800 --> 00:15:37.039 Sunshine: tied to, like, spiritual practice, right? So, yes, in that concept, like, I began initiation into the Catholic faith at a very young age. You know, we do First Communion… well, you do your baptism, no clue about that one, I don't remember that, right?
00:15:37.040 --> 00:15:37.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Like…
00:15:37.910 --> 00:15:45.809 Sunshine: You're, like, 6 or 7, you're in first grade, I believe it is, when you do your first communion, you know? And so I was very aware
00:15:45.910 --> 00:15:52.989 Sunshine: Of having this, like, rich spiritual component in my life. Absolutely.
00:15:53.090 --> 00:16:01.040 Sunshine: But around the age of 11 years old, my little spiritual world was kind of rocked by
00:16:01.410 --> 00:16:03.889 Sunshine: I had discovered, you know.
00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:21.679 Sunshine: for folks that are maybe not as familiar, right, a Catholic Mass is led by a priest, and there are typically going to be individuals that are serving alongside him. And growing up, the majority of the time, it was… it was boys, you know, kids that I was going to school with, you know, older kids.
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:35.959 Sunshine: And around the time of 11 years old, both my grandmother's parish, as well as another… I guess you could say both of my grandmother's parishes, so my one on my father's side and the one on my mother's side.
00:16:36.330 --> 00:16:42.299 Sunshine: started allowing females to be a part of church, of Mass.
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:47.440 Sunshine: And so I went to our parish priest, and I asked him, I told him I wanted to be a part, and he told me no.
00:16:48.700 --> 00:17:05.260 Sunshine: he said not in his church. And this just, like, again, was this kind of, like, spiritual kind of… like, I just did not understand it. I did not comprehend it. I… I could not… I could… I could not understand why I was being told
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:11.280 Sunshine: know that I could not Celebrate and participate in my spiritual
00:17:12.020 --> 00:17:17.140 Sunshine: beliefs in a way that I wanted to, you know? And so, it just…
00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:21.460 Sunshine: That was a catalyst for having me to start to question
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:29.640 Sunshine: A lot around spirituality, and ask a lot of why, and… You know, why not? And…
00:17:31.070 --> 00:17:34.910 Sunshine: truly seeking to understand, you know, we would…
00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:43.209 Sunshine: now as an adult, I've realized that around the age of 11s, I started… 11 years old, I started to explore the mysteries of life.
00:17:43.600 --> 00:17:45.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay. Yeah.
00:17:45.950 --> 00:17:55.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, witchery is not what we would call a mainstream practice.
00:17:56.130 --> 00:18:04.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But, like, was there anyone in your family that kind of was not so traditional, that was more…
00:18:04.700 --> 00:18:16.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: spiritual than religious? That kind of, in a way, was a role model for you, or gave you an opportunity to explore this, or was it really something that you just, like.
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:20.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Ugh, this doesn't make sense to me, I gotta find my own path.
00:18:25.540 --> 00:18:26.900 Sunshine: Yes to both?
00:18:27.050 --> 00:18:33.210 Sunshine: Right? So my grandmother, my mother's mother,
00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:40.850 Sunshine: was known for what they called, at that time, talking to the angels. So my mother… my grandmother was a medium.
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:46.169 Sunshine: And so, this was known. But my grandmother was also a devout Catholic.
00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:47.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:18:47.110 --> 00:18:55.000 Sunshine: Right? So here, there was this space that was kind of held in my family that said, yes, we're Catholic.
00:18:55.330 --> 00:19:01.170 Sunshine: and… We're willing to see and explore what else might be out there.
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:19:02.530 --> 00:19:10.689 Sunshine: Right? And so I, you know, and I've wondered this, I've wondered this for years, Sam, if that was not my
00:19:11.550 --> 00:19:12.550 Sunshine: life.
00:19:12.950 --> 00:19:13.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:15.429 Sunshine: How things would have been different.
00:19:15.430 --> 00:19:17.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:19:17.310 --> 00:19:21.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it's really quite interesting, because I've heard so many studies that say that, like.
00:19:22.110 --> 00:19:35.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 70% of the people out there, regardless of how they were brought up, their faith, whether they believe in God or not, believe in angels. Like, that is much more pervasive than most people realize.
00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:39.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, so once you started exploring.
00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:51.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Like, at what point did you sort of come upon witchcraft, and at what point did you feel like, oh, this feels like home, like, this feels like where I belong?
00:19:52.090 --> 00:19:56.650 Sunshine: Yeah, it was a very, very distinctive memory for me of…
00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:20.849 Sunshine: there was a metaphysical store, and there weren't a whole lot of them when I was growing up, but there was a metaphysical store that I stumbled in by myself, which was kind of rare, because I'm kind of a… always gonna have, like, a ride or die hanging out with me, but I stumbled into this metaphysical store by myself for the very first time, and I have this distinct memory of, like, walking in and smelling the incense.
00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:27.199 Sunshine: And… Just feeling this calm and this peace in this space.
00:20:27.990 --> 00:20:31.429 Sunshine: And when I started to ask questions.
00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:43.120 Sunshine: like I had done in the Catholic Church, I was met with additional curiosity An encouragement to explore.
00:20:44.110 --> 00:20:45.859 Sunshine: And that felt like home.
00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:49.990 Sunshine: That felt like I was given permission
00:20:50.260 --> 00:21:03.039 Sunshine: For the first time in my… my whole life, To be the curious, inquisitive, rebellious… person that I am.
00:21:04.470 --> 00:21:22.219 Sunshine: Right? And it wasn't just, you know, it wasn't just a book on witchcraft, because they had all sorts of books. I mean, I picked up books on, you know, the chakras, on witchcraft, on crystals, on earth, on, you know, you name it that I could get my hands on, I would flip through and read, and if I had money, because again, I was about
00:21:22.510 --> 00:21:25.119 Sunshine: 16 years old,
00:21:25.830 --> 00:21:30.519 Sunshine: I… I would… I would… yeah, I saved up, and I would get what made sense, yeah.
00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:37.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: At what point did you… Come out as a witch.
00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:41.130 Sunshine: You know.
00:21:42.210 --> 00:21:50.520 Sunshine: There's probably a couple of times in my life that I would say that happened, and when I was around that 16, 17 years old, I remember
00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:54.969 Sunshine: I remember I had confided in,
00:21:55.260 --> 00:21:58.970 Sunshine: my aunt. And so we would joke about it.
00:22:00.120 --> 00:22:04.220 Sunshine: We would joke about it, but not really anybody else.
00:22:04.460 --> 00:22:04.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Huh.
00:22:04.940 --> 00:22:15.050 Sunshine: Right? Not… not really anybody else. And so, you know, throughout my, like, late teens and 20s, I might have had one or two friends that knew,
00:22:15.300 --> 00:22:17.010 Sunshine: But I was really…
00:22:17.360 --> 00:22:35.170 Sunshine: self-conscious about it. You know, I, like, I loved this blog post. You had me just thinking about all sorts of things, right? It was kind of a little relevant to what I was doing now, and, like, something I'm going through right now, and I was like, oh man. But yeah, I mean, I just… I hid it away for a really long time.
00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:39.459 Sunshine: Right? I was selective of who I would tell it to.
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:40.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:22:40.840 --> 00:22:41.450 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:22:41.610 --> 00:22:48.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, which is a self… which is a normal self-defense mechanism, because you know lots of people are not going to be supportive of it.
00:22:49.000 --> 00:23:06.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So you want to be a little bit selective of, like, who you tell it to, so that you don't get the, what do you mean? Oh my god, you… you're into devilry, and oh, we have to do an exorcism, and all that stuff. So, yeah, you… which is not what witchcraft is all about.
00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:13.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What is it about witchcraft
00:23:13.360 --> 00:23:18.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that really speaks to your soul. Like, what is it about it that just…
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:21.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That, like you said before, makes you feel home.
00:23:24.690 --> 00:23:31.239 Sunshine: I think it, you know, I've been exploring this this month, so I love that you asked this question, and I think one of the things
00:23:31.530 --> 00:23:39.039 Sunshine: that I believe almost any person that you talk to that identifies as a witch is going to share in common.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:48.060 Sunshine: is that… You know, it gives us permission to truly explore what we believe.
00:23:48.570 --> 00:23:49.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:23:49.550 --> 00:24:07.600 Sunshine: Right? And that's what it was. Like, it's not that I don't like learning, it's not like that I didn't like learning what I learned as I went to the Catholic, you know, through all these Catholic schools. It's not that I don't like learning about anything when it comes to a religion, or a belief structure, or a philosophy. I…
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.389 Sunshine: I want the unwavering permission
00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:20.529 Sunshine: to believe what feels right, and in alignment with me. I want to understand my own truth.
00:24:21.840 --> 00:24:31.450 Sunshine: Right? So that I can be in an aligned relationship with other people, right? Again, I loved… I love the blog post, you know, and it just…
00:24:32.110 --> 00:24:40.940 Sunshine: that, to me, is what feels like home, right? That, to me, like, being and embracing are…
00:24:41.380 --> 00:24:43.780 Sunshine: own sovereign path.
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:50.310 Sunshine: Right? It's just such a critical and important… and I just… especially, you know, I…
00:24:50.460 --> 00:25:01.549 Sunshine: you introduced me, I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I've just learned there's a lot of my adult life where drinking was my way of coping, of not being who I really was.
00:25:01.730 --> 00:25:02.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:25:02.670 --> 00:25:03.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm. Yeah.
00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:05.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Y-you know, what you just said…
00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:12.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just brought a question to mind, which is, Do you consider… witchcraft.
00:25:13.030 --> 00:25:17.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A philosophy? A religion? A spiritual practice? Like…
00:25:18.830 --> 00:25:21.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All of the above? What is it for you?
00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:23.790 Sunshine: Yeah, I mean,
00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:44.530 Sunshine: The religion con… aspect of things is this whole, like, structure and dogma, right? It's this whole structure and dogma, and so I have created this religious understanding of witchcraft that basically states you have to choose what you believe, right? That's… that's my… the religious aspect
00:25:44.670 --> 00:26:03.459 Sunshine: Of my belief. I believe there's a lot of philosophy in it, meaning there is a certain way to see and to think about the world, right? But I truly believe that where all of this comes from is this, like, spiritual part of ourselves that connects to something that's greater and bigger than ourselves.
00:26:03.460 --> 00:26:06.520 Sunshine: Meaning, if I didn't have that in the first place.
00:26:06.670 --> 00:26:15.149 Sunshine: There would be no understanding of the religious aspect of it, nor a philosophical perspective on life according to it either.
00:26:15.310 --> 00:26:22.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I do want to get into this whole witch recovery and recovery from alcoholism, but
00:26:23.340 --> 00:26:30.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I do have to ask, since you're known as the pink-haired sober witch, why pink hair, and how long have you had pink hair?
00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:31.300 Sunshine: Mmm.
00:26:31.490 --> 00:26:36.339 Sunshine: You know, well, there's some practical reasons.
00:26:36.340 --> 00:26:52.539 Sunshine: I've dyed my hair since, you know, I'm like a natural, what they call, dirty blonde, and I've dyed my hair since I was in my late teens, and for a long time, it was always red, right? That was really all that you could, like, box dye when I was younger.
00:26:52.600 --> 00:27:00.390 Sunshine: And… Around, around the time of…
00:27:01.050 --> 00:27:08.189 Sunshine: I was starting to think about getting sober. I had my hair stressor starting to put in a couple of different colors, blues, purples, pinks.
00:27:09.060 --> 00:27:20.819 Sunshine: And pink was always what felt a little bit right, and so a month into my recovery, I walked into her salon, sat in her chair, and I said, dye it all pink.
00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:25.990 Sunshine: And she said, really? I said, the whole thing. I said, dye it all pink.
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:34.470 Sunshine: And so, since about 30 days into my recovery journey from alcohol, my hair has been pink ever since, yeah.
00:27:34.470 --> 00:27:36.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow, how many years is that now?
00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:37.970 Sunshine: Just over 7.
00:27:37.970 --> 00:27:40.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just over 7. Wow. Wow.
00:27:46.040 --> 00:27:50.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You mentioned before that the alcoholism was a way of you coping.
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.070 Sunshine: Hmm.
00:27:52.070 --> 00:28:01.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: At what point did you realize it was not a very effective way, and that you really needed to do something about it?
00:28:05.470 --> 00:28:14.699 Sunshine: The point that I realized that it wasn't an effective way was probably in my early 20s, and it took me 17 years to decide to do something about it.
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:15.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:28:16.390 --> 00:28:25.659 Sunshine: Yeah, I have… I've read journal entries that I wrote when I was in my early 20s, where I start talking about being concerned about the amount that I was drinking.
00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:44.650 Sunshine: Yeah, but, you know, for whatever reason, so many of us that struggle with addiction will go down this path of what's considered, like, moderation. Like, we… we try to establish some type of control around these habits, and I, you know.
00:28:44.990 --> 00:29:03.910 Sunshine: I often will introduce myself not just as a recovering alcoholic, but as a recovering workaholic, and so my way of coping with life, right, was if I was working really hard, so 10, 11, 12-hour days, often 6 days a week for most of my adult life.
00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:06.780 Sunshine: And if I wasn't working, I was drinking.
00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:09.040 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:29:09.560 --> 00:29:17.369 Sunshine: So, I managed to moderate for a really long time by keeping myself so occupied
00:29:17.690 --> 00:29:23.909 Sunshine: With other things that were aligned with society's definition of success.
00:29:24.190 --> 00:29:35.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right, right. So basically, if you just kept yourself busy enough, you didn't have time to drink, but as soon as there wasn't something to do, you reached for the bottle.
00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:36.410 Sunshine: Yep.
00:29:36.650 --> 00:29:37.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:29:37.570 --> 00:29:42.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: At what point did you say, I've got to do something about this?
00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:44.140 Sunshine: Where…
00:29:44.140 --> 00:29:50.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean, like, at what point did you make the decision and actually start to do something about it?
00:29:51.450 --> 00:30:02.870 Sunshine: It was at the beginning of 2019. I had watched my father almost die, from alcoholism, and my cousin was on his deathbed because of it.
00:30:03.250 --> 00:30:05.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So it runs in the family.
00:30:05.830 --> 00:30:06.859 Sunshine: Yes, it does.
00:30:07.790 --> 00:30:09.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Which is not uncommon, is it?
00:30:10.080 --> 00:30:11.690 Sunshine: No, it is not.
00:30:12.020 --> 00:30:12.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:13.150 Sunshine: Hmm.
00:30:13.420 --> 00:30:16.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright, we're gonna take a quick break.
00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:24.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we come back, let's talk about how these two things intersected, and why you're so dedicated.
00:30:24.810 --> 00:30:26.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To helping your fellow witch.
00:30:26.970 --> 00:30:28.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:30:28.580 --> 00:30:29.390 Sunshine: Sounds good.
00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:48.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So, everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to The Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. We do this every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on TalkRadio.nyc and all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest, Sunshine Witchke, in just a moment.
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:15.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Sunshine, you came to a point where it was like, if I don't do something about this, I'm gonna end up like my cousin, like my dad, with…
00:32:15.870 --> 00:32:18.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And probably dead.
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:24.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So you began your… Road on recovery.
00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:28.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What was the hardest part about recovery for you?
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:35.240 Sunshine: And the hardest part
00:32:36.120 --> 00:32:42.369 Sunshine: has really, you know, I mean, still, even after 7 years, it's the grief that's associated with it.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:48.320 Sunshine: You know, it's this… You… you have to commit to changing your life.
00:32:48.550 --> 00:32:52.419 Sunshine: Right? Because if… if the life that I was living
00:32:54.330 --> 00:33:00.209 Sunshine: was the life that led me to addiction. It was not going to be the life that led me away from it.
00:33:00.990 --> 00:33:01.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:33:02.290 --> 00:33:02.840 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:33:02.980 --> 00:33:15.890 Sunshine: So there were a lot of changes that I had to acknowledge, recognize, initiate, and move forward with, but in that whole process of change comes grief.
00:33:17.190 --> 00:33:17.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:33:18.310 --> 00:33:22.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Grief over…
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:34.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what happened during that period, and grief. Also, you have a relationship with alcohol, and now you don't have that relationship anymore. That causes grief, too.
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:44.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: At what point did you realize that there were other people like you, who were witches, who had this same issue?
00:33:47.670 --> 00:33:56.270 Sunshine: as I started to talk about it and express it, you know, just sometimes randomly online,
00:33:56.710 --> 00:34:07.700 Sunshine: sometimes it was in, you know, a private group. I just… I started to realize, right, that I wasn't the only one. You know, there were other folks that would
00:34:08.020 --> 00:34:14.200 Sunshine: gravitate towards the conversations that I was sharing online, right? I got… I got sober and…
00:34:14.370 --> 00:34:29.720 Sunshine: the fall of 2019, and then the world shut down in 2020. Yeah. You know, so everybody was kind of, like, online, and a lot of people that may never have, like, you know, actively been engaged, they were there. And so I just… I started to witness
00:34:30.300 --> 00:34:36.439 Sunshine: you know, people in a spiritual path, I started to,
00:34:36.730 --> 00:34:46.460 Sunshine: you know, share more of my own story, and so just in ob… just in observing conversations that were happening in, like, Facebook groups that I belong to, or other
00:34:46.590 --> 00:34:57.139 Sunshine: groups, and then being more open to sharing my story, I would… I would have people, like, privately reach out to me, privately message me, privately send me an email.
00:34:57.580 --> 00:35:01.780 Sunshine: You know? And this wasn't with me trying.
00:35:02.310 --> 00:35:05.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It was just being you.
00:35:05.160 --> 00:35:13.200 Sunshine: it was just me being me in the beginning, so I didn't actively start this, like, merging of these two
00:35:13.710 --> 00:35:28.609 Sunshine: you know, and I… I've jokingly said, I don't know if our initial conversation, if I said this, but I, like, I took two things that so many people in this world are ostracized for, the practice of witchcraft and addiction, and I shoved the two of them together.
00:35:28.770 --> 00:35:38.089 Sunshine: Because the reality is, These are two potential really big pieces of people's lives.
00:35:38.740 --> 00:35:41.600 Sunshine: That they have the potential to be shamed and judged for.
00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:45.170 Sunshine: Yeah. Right?
00:35:45.170 --> 00:35:45.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:35:47.630 --> 00:35:50.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so, at what point did you say.
00:35:50.550 --> 00:35:55.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: this is something I want to focus on, this is something I want to help my fellow witches with.
00:35:55.520 --> 00:35:56.590 Sunshine: I didn't.
00:35:58.600 --> 00:36:12.530 Sunshine: I didn't, you know, I… so I, again, living in alignment with oneself, I knew the corporate world was not going to be something that I stayed in, you know, from a long-term perspective, and so I started to build up a psychic business.
00:36:13.020 --> 00:36:13.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:36:13.910 --> 00:36:17.030 Sunshine: So for about four and a half years, I think it was.
00:36:17.030 --> 00:36:35.800 Sunshine: I was traveling the Midwest, I was doing the holistic and psychic fair circuits around this area, I had a whole private client base, and so I, in April of 2024, I had made the leap and left corporate and said, you know what, I'm going to focus on my own business moving forward.
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:36.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Like…
00:36:36.660 --> 00:36:54.239 Sunshine: And I was about a month out, and I realized how unbelievably burnt out that I was. I was, like, in tears, just crying and saying, you know, I meant to take time off when I quit, when I resigned, and I hadn't taken a single day for myself. Like, somehow, I piled
00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:08.069 Sunshine: every day. And so I'm, like, sitting here and just bawling, and, you know, a spirit, you know, in essence says to me, are you ready? And I was like, for what? Like, what are you, like, what are you talking about, right? And they're like.
00:37:08.270 --> 00:37:12.099 Sunshine: You're going to help witches in recovery.
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:24.990 Sunshine: And I was just like, this is not why I left my job, right? This is not what I just spent 4 years building, right? This is not, like… what are you talking about?
00:37:25.390 --> 00:37:29.389 Sunshine: And so that's… I laugh, and I say, I was like, I didn't choose, I was called.
00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:30.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:37:30.230 --> 00:37:31.509 Sunshine: I was called to it.
00:37:31.670 --> 00:37:38.599 Sunshine: And… you know, I spent some time reflecting, and…
00:37:38.910 --> 00:37:42.299 Sunshine: I've never regretted a single moment of it since.
00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:43.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:37:44.110 --> 00:37:44.790 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:37:45.940 --> 00:37:54.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, and… That initial, sort of, people getting drawn to you online from the conversations and stuff.
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Once you started to focus on it.
00:37:59.230 --> 00:38:08.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did it really turn out that, like, there were many other witches out there that wanted help, that wanted to be supported in recovery?
00:38:08.550 --> 00:38:15.910 Sunshine: I am… I am shocked. Like, even, like, right now, I have, like, full body somatic Chills, because…
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:20.000 Sunshine: It has… has unbelievably just…
00:38:20.950 --> 00:38:30.660 Sunshine: surprised me over and over again, how many, right? How many? When I first started hosting Circle, which would have been September of 2024,
00:38:31.010 --> 00:38:41.399 Sunshine: at that particular time, I still had a bit of money left over from, like, when I resigned, and so I spent probably about
00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:48.950 Sunshine: I don't even know, $200 a month in just some Facebook ads, $200 or $300, and in a matter of…
00:38:49.220 --> 00:38:57.840 Sunshine: 4 months, so September, October, November, December, 4 months, We had over 6,000 people that had…
00:38:58.120 --> 00:39:00.680 Sunshine: Just clicked on the ad.
00:39:00.810 --> 00:39:03.970 Sunshine: didn't sign up for Circle, but just had clicked on it.
00:39:04.270 --> 00:39:18.180 Sunshine: Right? And I mean, we're talking, like… I'm spending, like, pennies in comparison to, like, if I… yeah, just… and so just that alone was enough, let alone, you know, the amount of folks from an impression perspective that it was… it was even shown to.
00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:25.310 Sunshine: And since we have had, over and over again, I sell, you know, the book's been released for
00:39:26.200 --> 00:39:27.690 Sunshine: A year and a half.
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:43.529 Sunshine: I don't… again, I don't have a huge marketing budget. I'm operating a non-profit right now, but I sell roughly 15 to 20 copies of the book every single month. Wow. We have… we have anywhere from 15 to 20 folks that show up to each and every one of the circles that we offer.
00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:52.810 Sunshine: And I have folks in the wild. I was at, you know, I literally work in the recovery industry now, and I was at a courthouse.
00:39:53.160 --> 00:39:54.930 Sunshine: on Friday.
00:39:55.500 --> 00:40:02.090 Sunshine: talking to their, like, treatment program, and a woman pulls me aside afterwards and says, I bought your book, and I really love it.
00:40:02.750 --> 00:40:03.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Whoa.
00:40:04.200 --> 00:40:04.820 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:07.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I mean, actually, my next one was going to be…
00:40:08.150 --> 00:40:11.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what got you to say, I need to write a book about this?
00:40:12.020 --> 00:40:13.440 Sunshine: So I…
00:40:13.560 --> 00:40:31.050 Sunshine: after my first year in recovery, I was still working with a therapist. I worked the traditional 12-step program steps with my therapist, and at 12 months, you know, I joined… again, we're in the throes of COVID, so there weren't in-person meetings, but I joined
00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:46.109 Sunshine: my typical, online AA meeting at that particular point, and they… when they asked me how I did it, right, that's what they often do. Oh, you got a year in? How did you do it? I hesitated to tell them. Like, I made up some, like.
00:40:46.610 --> 00:40:54.439 Sunshine: sentiment, again, of not wanting to be judged, and when I went and talked with my therapist afterwards, she goes, well, how did you do it?
00:40:55.160 --> 00:41:01.090 Sunshine: And I said, well, I took what they had shown me, and I… I adapted it to how…
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:02.900 Sunshine: A witch would do it.
00:41:04.580 --> 00:41:13.380 Sunshine: And so my whole second year in recovery, she's like, well, maybe there are others that would want to know that, too. So my second year in recovery, I wrote it all down.
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:28.879 Sunshine: I spent 12 months throughout that, you know, almost pretty much every… every, month, I would write down what I'd done. And so, again, that was my second year in recovery, and when I was finished, I was not… I was told, like, that's it, you know?
00:41:28.990 --> 00:41:33.440 Sunshine: I thought it might have been a book, I thought it might have been shared at some point.
00:41:34.270 --> 00:41:41.550 Sunshine: Maybe, and then, after we opened up Circle in September of 2024,
00:41:41.670 --> 00:41:46.090 Sunshine: That's, again, where Spirit was like, it's time to dust off the book.
00:41:46.250 --> 00:41:47.939 Sunshine: You need to get to editing it.
00:41:50.050 --> 00:41:50.620 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:41:51.490 --> 00:42:01.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… In what ways did your practice, your rituals, your craft, Help you in recovery.
00:42:05.050 --> 00:42:17.329 Sunshine: I would say, you know, the practice of a witch, you know, if you talk to a lot of them, they will often bring up in some way, shape, or form, or be familiar with, at very least, the act of shadow work.
00:42:17.530 --> 00:42:22.219 Sunshine: Right? This exploration of the pieces of us
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.940 Sunshine: That, you know, we may have repressed, we may have denied, and so to me.
00:42:27.100 --> 00:42:34.569 Sunshine: That practice has played probably one of the greatest roles in my recovery.
00:42:34.850 --> 00:42:40.269 Sunshine: Right? This, like… Again, going back to your blog post, like, what is our truth?
00:42:40.270 --> 00:42:40.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:42:40.700 --> 00:42:55.919 Sunshine: You know, so I would… I would feel these sensations, like I'd be in a situation, and they didn't feel right, and I'd have to pause, and I'd have to reflect, and why is that? Is it my ego? Did my ego get hurt? You know, am I denying something? Am I not speaking my truth?
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:00.800 Sunshine: Did I just lie to them because I was afraid of what they were… they were gonna think of me?
00:43:01.790 --> 00:43:10.380 Sunshine: Right? And understanding, like, okay, well, maybe they are gonna think poorly of me, but then, are they in alignment for me?
00:43:10.520 --> 00:43:16.849 Sunshine: Yeah. Does that relationship serve me? I'm telling you, either your blog post, I don't know if you did that intentionally, but that was such a…
00:43:17.380 --> 00:43:25.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Perfect, perfect. It always works out that way. I just take them in order, but somehow that's always perfect for the conversation that week.
00:43:26.730 --> 00:43:27.530 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:43:28.930 --> 00:43:38.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What's a… A unique challenge that witches in recovery have that maybe other people in recovery don't have.
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:42.520 Sunshine: Hmm…
00:43:46.420 --> 00:43:53.500 Sunshine: You know… I think… I don't know that there's anything unique
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:57.089 Sunshine: Around a witch in recovery, except…
00:43:58.100 --> 00:44:14.099 Sunshine: when we… and when I say we, I don't mean just… I mean us folks that have a background and a history with addiction. When we step into recovery, an important part of that is learning to be honest and truthful about who we are.
00:44:14.550 --> 00:44:15.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right?
00:44:15.820 --> 00:44:24.890 Sunshine: And… In order to truly anchor ourselves into long-term recovery, having some kind of spiritual faith.
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:25.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:44:25.890 --> 00:44:34.540 Sunshine: Right? And so… You do not find a lot of folks that
00:44:35.970 --> 00:44:47.499 Sunshine: you know, practice a Christian or a… I'll say any of the bigger recognized religious, you know, spiritual faiths, do not get chastised in the same way
00:44:47.780 --> 00:44:50.519 Sunshine: As those of us that practice witchcraft do.
00:44:50.900 --> 00:45:03.240 Sunshine: And I'll do an asterisk on that, because we are also, right now, living in a world that if you are Islamic or, you know, a practicing Muslim, there is a lot, a lot of,
00:45:03.820 --> 00:45:05.990 Sunshine: You know, judgment cast upon that person.
00:45:05.990 --> 00:45:06.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Particularly.
00:45:06.470 --> 00:45:09.259 Sunshine: So, I would say we share that in common, as far.
00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:09.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a sec.
00:45:09.700 --> 00:45:22.259 Sunshine: But yeah, I think that's the only difference. Like, if you walk into a traditional type of recovery program, and you start talking, you know, about your Christian faith, nobody's really gonna, like, roll their eyes at you for it.
00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:23.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:45:23.130 --> 00:45:33.470 Sunshine: Right? But I mean, I… I literally watched rooms become uncomfortable when I would start talking about things. I watched myself hesitating to bring my faith
00:45:33.590 --> 00:45:37.279 Sunshine: into a conversation of how I was staying sober.
00:45:38.310 --> 00:45:39.190 Sunshine: Right?
00:45:39.190 --> 00:45:39.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:45:39.750 --> 00:45:49.919 Sunshine: again, I don't think it's just because I'm a witch, per se, that that's, like, a difficulty. It's just as every single one of us that are
00:45:50.060 --> 00:45:54.990 Sunshine: Stepping out of addiction, We all struggle with being true of who we are.
00:45:57.010 --> 00:46:02.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm wondering… Is there something about…
00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:06.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I don't want to say the personality.
00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:11.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But is there something about someone's life that leads them to witchcraft?
00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:28.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that makes them potentially maybe more susceptible to addiction? Like, is there something about what brings somebody to one thing makes them more likely to come to another thing? Or do you think it's…
00:46:28.460 --> 00:46:36.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's… it's just as… as a standard percentage that the general population would, would end up…
00:46:36.910 --> 00:46:44.349 Sunshine: You know, it would be fascinating to do a study on this, but I will tell you something that I watch.
00:46:44.520 --> 00:46:53.160 Sunshine: Folks that often gravitate towards the practice of witchcraft or esoteric spiritual practices that are aligned with it.
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:58.289 Sunshine: And to also identify themselves as highly sensitive or empathic.
00:46:59.830 --> 00:47:09.949 Sunshine: Okay? And so, if you are highly sensitive and empathic, and you're picking up on all of these other things, and aren't familiar with it.
00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:18.300 Sunshine: Do not know why you become overwhelmed walking into a room. Do not know why hanging out with Aunt Jane, you know, completely drains you.
00:47:18.910 --> 00:47:31.729 Sunshine: yes, I do think that there is a higher likelihood that highly sensitive as well as empathic, and they even show folks that are neurodivergent
00:47:32.190 --> 00:47:38.370 Sunshine: That is something they're starting to watch, which lots of neurodivergent people are empathic and highly sensitive.
00:47:38.550 --> 00:47:42.409 Sunshine: Have a higher prevalence for addiction, because
00:47:42.650 --> 00:47:55.219 Sunshine: We don't… we're not taught… we're not taught at a young age of what to do when we are… are highly sensitive, and often, like, our… our… our society is very counter to that.
00:47:55.420 --> 00:48:04.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Society is all about desensitizing people, but when you're a highly sensitive person, it just… it just…
00:48:05.060 --> 00:48:15.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: causes more challenges for you. And most parents don't know how to recognize that their child is a highly sensitive child, so, you know.
00:48:16.040 --> 00:48:25.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Being able to do that, it's, definitely something that's… that's not…
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, that people are not well educated about today.
00:48:29.890 --> 00:48:30.480 Sunshine: Yeah.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:33.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Which, hopefully, that is changing.
00:48:36.650 --> 00:48:51.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Harris posted something on LinkedIn that it… I have to read this, because it's just so fascinating. He says, Sam and Sunshine, although I'm not a witch, my personal story is one for the witch's brew.
00:48:51.810 --> 00:49:07.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Over the past 3 years, I have 3 near-death experiences. In 23, I had a heart condition called the Widowmaker, followed by 5 hours of off-the-pump heart surgery. From 23, after my heart surgery, my kidneys completely failed, Jesus.
00:49:07.610 --> 00:49:18.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I immediately began hemodialysis for the next 2 years, 3 times per week. In 25, a miracle happened. The good witches here in…
00:49:18.530 --> 00:49:24.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Karma space, and… I received a kidney transplant at NYU.
00:49:25.040 --> 00:49:30.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Today, I'm living a normal life and doing just about everything a normal person is able to do.
00:49:31.270 --> 00:49:34.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I… I think it's supposed to be.
00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:34.840 Sunshine: swim.
00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:45.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: swim, yeah, between 25… between 75 and 125 laps in an Olympic indoor pool each week, and I'm turning up my… tuning up my skis for my 65th
00:49:45.510 --> 00:49:52.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: year in skiing. I'm currently 73 years old. Is it a miracle story or just another witch's tale?
00:49:53.300 --> 00:50:01.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: P.S. I'm writing a book about my near-death experience, so it's time to put pen to paper. Good, Harris. That book I want to read.
00:50:04.140 --> 00:50:17.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So now you've started this non-profit, you're full in on helping witches in recovery. What's really your vision for helping witches? What do you…
00:50:17.240 --> 00:50:22.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: see unfolding before you, and where do you see the future lie in this?
00:50:22.670 --> 00:50:28.090 Sunshine: You know, there's something that's come to me in the last couple of months, and one of those things
00:50:28.700 --> 00:50:39.669 Sunshine: is to make it more prevalent. My vision is that no matter where a witch is in the world, the moment they recognize they need to connect.
00:50:40.220 --> 00:50:45.090 Sunshine: With somebody else in recovery, that they could join a circle within the next hour.
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:47.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm. Yeah.
00:50:47.830 --> 00:50:59.579 Sunshine: So, wherever they are, they can join a circle within the next hour. And the second piece of that is I really am hoping… I see this longing in so many of us
00:50:59.700 --> 00:51:12.549 Sunshine: for community within their local areas, right? They want to be able to connect with other folks, and so what… what the struggle is, is the pagan and the witchy communities
00:51:13.220 --> 00:51:25.419 Sunshine: often include alcohol and even sometimes drugs in their communal practices, right? So, they don't always feel safe going into those spaces, right? And vice versa.
00:51:25.420 --> 00:51:42.429 Sunshine: not every one of the recovery spaces are going to be open to inviting, you know, them in to do ritual and spell work. So my hope is that second part of that vision is to help all of the witches, no matter where they are, start to see and recognize the other ones so that they can gather in community safely together.
00:51:42.430 --> 00:51:42.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:51:43.240 --> 00:51:47.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Since witchcraft isn't really an quote-unquote organized
00:51:48.260 --> 00:51:53.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Religion or philosophy, whatever you want to call it, spiritual practice.
00:51:54.750 --> 00:52:10.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is there a network of… which is… groups that you plug into, that you can connect to people in? Or is it very much patchwork? Like, there might be one here, might be one there, and it's… nothing's really organized?
00:52:10.830 --> 00:52:16.110 Sunshine: Yeah, there are people that are out there that are trying to put more organization to it.
00:52:16.370 --> 00:52:24.779 Sunshine: You know, and they have all of the best of intentions, but the reality is, is A, it's such a, influx situation.
00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:25.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:52:25.230 --> 00:52:43.130 Sunshine: Right? It is so in flux, meaning, you know, you'll find out about a coven that's practicing in, you know, southwest Indiana, and they're good for two to three years, and then the main person that was holding the space down decides to retire, and now it falls apart. So there's so much flux, so…
00:52:43.300 --> 00:53:00.680 Sunshine: thus why what I'm trying to do is to just allow folks the visibility. So, part of the community that I've been building has a map, so you should be able to see. And if you want to gather together, great. If you want to practice solitarily and just meet up for coffee, great.
00:53:00.870 --> 00:53:02.590 Sunshine: Right?
00:53:03.180 --> 00:53:20.799 Sunshine: But now, at least folks are gonna know that these folks are practicing in whatever way, shape, or form that they want. Like, that is our kind of religious dogma, is everyone has their own sovereign path to create. That is… that is your responsibility. Figure out what you believe, and believe it, and practice it.
00:53:20.820 --> 00:53:26.139 Sunshine: Right? And everybody's safe when it comes to substances.
00:53:26.140 --> 00:53:26.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Meh.
00:53:29.610 --> 00:53:41.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: since we're coming up just a couple of days to Halloween, which is the… I mean, not official, but I guess the unofficial holiday of which is…
00:53:41.380 --> 00:53:46.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is it particularly challenging around this time? Are there any…
00:53:47.120 --> 00:53:52.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Special events or practices or things that people are preparing for to help?
00:53:54.030 --> 00:54:06.920 Sunshine: Yeah, I… it… these… the holiday… Halloween, you know, Cerewin kicks off a holiday season that can be incredibly challenging for everyone that is struggling with addiction.
00:54:07.020 --> 00:54:25.860 Sunshine: everyone, right? Literally, the founder of the one nonprofit that I work with, he's like… his first DUI that he ever received was on Halloween, right? You know, it is a… it tends to be the very first initiation into this party and celebration, this, like, you know.
00:54:26.080 --> 00:54:39.810 Sunshine: excuse for drinking and overindulging, right? Let's be real, it's not just drink. People overindulge in candy, and pie and, you know, cookies, you name it. And so, yeah, it becomes really difficult,
00:54:40.020 --> 00:54:57.389 Sunshine: for anyone. And, you know, as far as… there's a couple of things that I'm doing locally. You know, I've got an event on Friday that I'm doing at a recovery center. I have another community member that's doing another event Sunday.
00:54:57.590 --> 00:55:08.420 Sunshine: We are opening up… I work at a recovery community center here, like, literally, that's, you know, a place of employment, and so we are opening up Saturday night to invite folks in.
00:55:08.690 --> 00:55:12.729 Sunshine: And then later on,
00:55:12.990 --> 00:55:19.649 Sunshine: in the month of November, a dear friend of mine and I are hosting a grief circle online.
00:55:19.930 --> 00:55:21.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:55:21.570 --> 00:55:29.839 Sunshine: And the hope there is to kind of talk, you know, allow people the space to kind of talk about the loss
00:55:29.950 --> 00:55:42.419 Sunshine: Around addiction, right? You even said that relationship that we once had with alcohol or whatever the drug may be, right? You know, the relationships we might have had with the people that we hung out with. You name it.
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If somebody listening
00:55:49.110 --> 00:55:55.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: whether they're a witch or not. Maybe they're not a witch, maybe they have a friend who's a witch, who they see as
00:55:55.520 --> 00:55:59.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Potentially having a… A problem with addiction.
00:56:00.190 --> 00:56:02.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What would you advise them to do?
00:56:05.120 --> 00:56:07.880 Sunshine: Oh… not be quiet.
00:56:08.600 --> 00:56:09.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:56:09.450 --> 00:56:11.049 Sunshine: You know,
00:56:11.930 --> 00:56:22.869 Sunshine: to address it, to bring it up. And, you know, the reality is, is they may get angry, they may get defensive, right? But what you need to do is to call it out.
00:56:22.970 --> 00:56:32.030 Sunshine: You know, if you are concerned and love someone, and you see them acting in a way that looks like it could be harming themselves, you might be the first
00:56:32.520 --> 00:56:36.019 Sunshine: the first… Voice in their ears.
00:56:36.140 --> 00:56:39.099 Sunshine: That has them start to… to reflect
00:56:39.210 --> 00:56:41.879 Sunshine: And ask themselves whether or not they need a change.
00:56:42.180 --> 00:56:44.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:56:46.540 --> 00:56:52.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I really appreciate all that you do, and I really wish you the best
00:56:52.360 --> 00:57:09.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of success, and that you, you know, may be able to reach as many people as possible who need what you're offering. If people want to learn more and get involved, someone says, I need support, where can they go? How can they find you online?
00:57:10.450 --> 00:57:16.620 Sunshine: Try to keep it easy. You can visit the website www.Soberwitch.life.
00:57:16.790 --> 00:57:29.549 Sunshine: That has pretty much everything that you need to be able to access me directly, access the Coven, access circles, you can see all of my blog posts, the podcast, wherever you're at and you think you might need support, it's available there.
00:57:30.140 --> 00:57:32.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful.
00:57:33.250 --> 00:57:35.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One last question.
00:57:37.450 --> 00:57:43.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what… what keeps surprising you about this path? Like, now that you're on it, like, like.
00:57:43.650 --> 00:57:48.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What keeps you, like, fascinated by all that you're doing?
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:59.170 Sunshine: how many people I get to watch soften once they realize that they're not judged and they're accepted exactly where they are?
00:57:59.600 --> 00:58:01.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, nice.
00:58:01.510 --> 00:58:03.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Nice, thanks.
00:58:05.080 --> 00:58:21.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, Sunshine, thank you so much for taking the time to come on my show. It was a pleasure having you. It's so interesting to find somebody doing what you're doing. I really hope we help get that word out there for you, and that help people to find you.
00:58:21.680 --> 00:58:24.740 Sunshine: Thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate what you do as well.
00:58:25.240 --> 00:58:26.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you, thank you.
00:58:27.350 --> 00:58:31.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, and of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, like Harris.
00:58:31.460 --> 00:58:53.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Without you, there is no show, so thank you for tuning in each week. And just remember, if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on TalkRadio.nyc and on your favorite podcasting app, you know, everything from Apple to Spotify to Pandora to iRadio to Amazon. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find The Conscious Consultant Hour.
00:58:53.740 --> 00:59:02.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you all for tuning in. Have a wonderful Halloween weekend in Samhain. Take care, everyone. We will talk to you all next week.
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