EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Jim Tate, writer, podcaster, and founder of PsychCert, whose three decades in healthcare regulation, compliance, and accreditation now inform one of the most needed conversations in the psychedelic renaissance.
Jim writes Chronicles of Kykeon, a body of work covering psychedelic history, science, and policy grounded in archives and court transcripts, and hosts three podcasts of his own: Inside the Revival, The Psychedelic Bookshelf, and The Psychedelic Silver Screen.
His new book, Elders at the Threshold: Psychedelics for Seniors, is an evidence-first guide written specifically for the population that has, until now, been left almost entirely out of the psychedelic research picture.
The absence Jim addresses is not incidental. For most of the modern research revival, older adults have quietly been excluded from clinical trials, even as many of the questions psychedelics touch most directly (grief, meaning, end-of-life awareness, legacy, the softening of long-held patterns) become more urgent, not less, in later life. Jim brings the discipline of someone who has spent thirty years watching how healthcare systems actually work, alongside a genuine curiosity about what the research is beginning to show. Elders at the Threshold is not a promise or a pitch. It is a careful, evidence-based look at what is known, what is still being studied, what the real considerations are for someone in their seventies or eighties, and how close any of this actually is to becoming accessible medicine.
Together, Sam and Jim explore what it means to bring rigor and reverence into the same conversation about psychedelics and aging. They discuss why older adults were left out of the research, what the science now suggests about safety and benefit, how the psychedelic experience often differs for someone with decades of life behind them, and what listeners might do with this information whether they are considering these medicines themselves or holding space for someone who is. Drawing on his regulatory background, Jim also shares what he is watching for as legal frameworks, clinics, and retreats begin to take shape. This episode is an invitation to bring both curiosity and clear eyes to a conversation that matters more with every passing year.
Tune in and share your own questions and comments about using psychedelics later in life on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
Sam Liebowitz opens this episode with his blog post "Magic Happens When We Make Room for It," inviting listeners to leave unscheduled space in their lives so that unexpected moments of synchronicity, connection, and wonder can find them. He then welcomes Jim Tate, a healthcare compliance veteran, psychedelic historian, and author of Elders at the Threshold: Psychedelics for Seniors, who echoes the theme by reflecting on how daydreaming, boredom, and serendipity are being crowded out by our screens. Tate shares how a youthful psychedelic experience first expanded his sense of reality beyond his Baptist suburban upbringing, and the two discuss the unfolding psychedelic renaissance, including the gap between legalization and true access, the role of ketamine-assisted therapy in helping people meet life with more groundedness and self-compassion, and the need for guardrails and intention as this healing work becomes more widely available.
Sam Liebowitz asks Jim Tate what drew him to psychedelics for elders, and Tate explains that people in the latter chapters of life carry a "suitcase full of grief," along with regrets, mortality anxiety, and the "golden cage" of decades spent managing risk, yet they have been systematically excluded from clinical trials, with fewer than 2% of participants over 65. Tate shares that he wrote Elders at the Threshold as a "valentine" and legacy gift to his generation, one that offers evidence-based education between hype and fear, and he speaks personally about a ceremony in which he felt blessed by a primordial force and a solo low-dose journey that helped him release deep shame by making amends. He recommends that newcomers choose psilocybin with experienced guides and a "start low, go slow" approach, and he and Sam envision an emerging elder movement, inspired by collaborators like Abby Rosner, in which it is never too late to heal, grow, or experience wonder.
00:00:37.730 --> 00:00:48.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Welcome to another edition of the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity.
00:00:48.270 --> 00:01:04.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We have another wonderful show in store for you today with a fascinating guest who I'm looking really forward to bringing on in just a moment.
00:01:04.160 --> 00:01:19.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But of course, first we have, my blog post from a couple of years ago. And, this one today, I think, rather apropos for our topic. And the title of today's blog post is Magic Happens.
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:22.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we make room for it.
00:01:22.310 --> 00:01:23.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In our life.
00:01:24.700 --> 00:01:34.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We would all love to see more magic in our lives. The desire for something unexpected to show up at just the right moment.
00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:39.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To see a coincidence that is beyond explanation.
00:01:39.620 --> 00:01:44.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet we often do the very things that repel magic.
00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:49.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For we fill up our lives with so much stuff.
00:01:50.350 --> 00:01:54.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There is no room for magic to squeeze in.
00:01:54.860 --> 00:02:04.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our schedules, our days, even our relationships are so full, there is little room for life to surprise us.
00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:10.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How often do we leave time open with nothing scheduled to do?
00:02:11.640 --> 00:02:18.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is there much room in our lives to actually say yes when an unexpected invitation comes?
00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:24.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As we go through our days, and we take care of our responsibilities.
00:02:24.510 --> 00:02:30.599 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How often do we mindfully leave room for something new to enter?
00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:33.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of course.
00:02:33.480 --> 00:02:40.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we have to… Want to take care of those things that are essential for us to get done.
00:02:41.110 --> 00:02:49.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our work, our errands, maintaining our home environment, and the like are all important to us.
00:02:49.930 --> 00:02:54.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is not to say we should abandon any of it.
00:02:54.710 --> 00:02:58.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet when we leave room in our lives that is open.
00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:00.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Unscheduled.
00:03:02.430 --> 00:03:11.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Where we can do… where we can do anything that comes up, that is where we give life an opportunity to surprise us.
00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:19.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To allow the magic to creep in and bring us to unexpected places.
00:03:20.170 --> 00:03:25.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Such as having time to meet up at the last minute with an old friend.
00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:29.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or to go to an event we didn't even know was happening.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:37.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Perhaps it is as simple as just taking a walk in our neighborhood at a time when we are normally home.
00:03:38.420 --> 00:03:46.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who knows what magic, what surprises await us when we bring break our habits and routine?
00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:52.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For that is where life can sneak in and wow us.
00:03:53.090 --> 00:04:01.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we have made room for this seemingly random event to come to us and bring us to a whole new place.
00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:07.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: These random events can be life-changing.
00:04:07.350 --> 00:04:11.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or they can just be small, happy occurrences that fill up our heart.
00:04:13.040 --> 00:04:16.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Magic is not always big and powerful.
00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:21.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes it is subtle and serene.
00:04:22.089 --> 00:04:24.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One thing is for certain.
00:04:24.830 --> 00:04:32.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we do not leave room for life to bring us something magical, It never will.
00:04:34.410 --> 00:04:38.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Have you made room in your life for the magic to show up?
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:45.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can you let go of having a full schedule and allow life to surprise you?
00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:49.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So.
00:04:51.030 --> 00:04:59.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I I I wrote this blog post after having a discussion with my wife, but also it was after an experience of
00:05:00.860 --> 00:05:09.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of just something coming at the last minute. I believe it was an event that we decided to go to.
00:05:09.140 --> 00:05:11.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it was, like, happening the next day.
00:05:11.940 --> 00:05:16.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… And we talked about it, and how…
00:05:16.730 --> 00:05:24.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, normally, we're so busy, we've got this to do, we've got that to do, we've got to take care of chores and errands.
00:05:25.220 --> 00:05:28.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And we usually don't have that much time to kind of
00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:33.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Let the random thing in that we don't expect.
00:05:34.550 --> 00:05:43.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And how in in this case we actually had left some time open and and something came that was just a wonderful, beautiful time that we had.
00:05:45.190 --> 00:05:55.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then as I started to talk to people that I work with, you know, especially those who are like, oh, I'd really love something, you know, like, magical to show up in my life.
00:05:57.690 --> 00:05:59.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I ask them, I'm like.
00:06:00.150 --> 00:06:04.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, do you have any free time for something magical to show up?
00:06:06.130 --> 00:06:18.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And they were like, well, you know, I like it, but, you know, I've got this to do, and I've got that to do, and there's just, you know, so much happening.
00:06:18.610 --> 00:06:20.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then I realized, it's like…
00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:23.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, we all want something magical.
00:06:25.340 --> 00:06:30.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But… but how often do we actually leave room for it?
00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:35.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Doesn't seem like we leave much room at all.
00:06:36.210 --> 00:06:41.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so I realized it, like, wasn't just me, it was a lot of people do this.
00:06:42.590 --> 00:06:50.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that… You know, I think this question of, you know, do we leave room in our life?
00:06:50.490 --> 00:06:53.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To really allow the magic to show up.
00:06:55.110 --> 00:07:03.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, it's… it's… It's something that… that we don't often… Consider.
00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:06.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it's something I feel.
00:07:07.670 --> 00:07:09.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Really would serve us.
00:07:10.330 --> 00:07:14.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we did… Consider it a little bit more.
00:07:17.780 --> 00:07:25.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, and so this, this post comes from not just My own experience.
00:07:26.310 --> 00:07:29.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But from the experience of many people that I work with.
00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that's why I decided to write about it.
00:07:34.250 --> 00:07:38.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because I just feel that…
00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:55.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Too much, especially in today's world, especially when so much is going on and we're so distracted and, and, and, and there's so many things we're worried about this and that, and, and technology is constantly interrupting us.
00:07:58.410 --> 00:08:02.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I feel like it's more important than ever
00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:06.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To just leave some room to breathe.
00:08:06.900 --> 00:08:12.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To just… Leave some room for that unexpected phone call.
00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:19.569 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That unexpected meeting… That unexpected thing that happens to cross our paths.
00:08:20.820 --> 00:08:23.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we never really considered.
00:08:26.730 --> 00:08:29.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, well, that's my blog post.
00:08:30.530 --> 00:08:31.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I hope you liked it.
00:08:32.280 --> 00:08:36.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Again, the title is Magic Happens.
00:08:36.260 --> 00:08:39.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we make room for it in our life.
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:58.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And if you like my blog post, you'll probably like my book, Everyday Awakening. And, yeah, I actually did create an audio version of Everyday Awakening, so even if you've got the paperback, if you want to hear the audio version, please check it out, it's on Amazon.
00:08:58.700 --> 00:09:04.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And if you want the book itself, you can get it at all major booksells. And just one thing about the audiobook.
00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:20.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I know a lot of people said, oh, we really wanted it in your voice. Yeah, but that takes a lot more work and time and money. It's actually I used an AI, generated voice, so it's not my voice. But I'd love some feedback. Like it.
00:09:21.300 --> 00:09:31.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Would you rather have had it with an AI-generated voice than not at all? I would really love to know if it just bothers you too much or if if it's better than nothing.
00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:33.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right.
00:09:34.050 --> 00:09:40.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, it is now my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show Jim Tate.
00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:56.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Writer, podcaster, and founder of PsychCert, whose three decades in healthcare, regulation, compliance, and accreditation now inform one of the most needed conversations in the psychedelic renaissance.
00:09:56.220 --> 00:10:00.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Jim writes Chronicles of… Tachyon?
00:10:00.730 --> 00:10:04.199 Jim Tate: Kaikyan. Yep, we'll talk about Kaikyan. Yep.
00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:20.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, a body of work covering psychedelic history, science, and policy grounded in archives and court transcripts, and hosts three podcasts of his own, Inside the Revival, The Psychedelic Bookshelf, and The Psychedelic Silver Screen.
00:10:20.660 --> 00:10:31.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: His new book, Elders at the Threshold, Psychedelics for Seniors, is an evidence-first guide written specifically for the population that has, until now.
00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:36.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Been left almost entirely out of the psychedelic research picture.
00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:41.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The absence Jim addresses is not incidental.
00:10:41.300 --> 00:10:59.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For most of the modern research revival, older adults have been quietly excluded from clinical trials, even as many of the questions psychedelics touch most directly, such as grief, meaning, end-of-life awareness, legacy, the softening of long-held patterns.
00:10:59.150 --> 00:11:03.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Become more urgent, not less, in later life.
00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:15.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Jim brings the discipline of someone who has spent 30 years watching how healthcare systems actually work, alongside a genuine curiosity about what the research is beginning to show.
00:11:16.090 --> 00:11:35.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Elders at the Threshold is not a promise or a pitch. It is a careful, evidence-based look at what is known, what is still being studied, what the real considerations are for someone in their 70s or 80s, and how close any of this actually is to becoming accessible medicine.
00:11:35.540 --> 00:11:38.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Jim.
00:11:38.820 --> 00:11:40.970 Jim Tate: Sam, it's a pleasure to be here with you.
00:11:41.130 --> 00:11:58.119 Jim Tate: Before we get into my story and my book, I want to talk about your blog a little bit because I had a few thoughts as you was reading it. Sure. Because, you know, we can call it magic. Who knows? You know, there are a lot of different words for what you're talking about.
00:11:59.070 --> 00:12:06.200 Jim Tate: And I'm going to sound like my age right now, but I can remember as a child.
00:12:06.860 --> 00:12:13.520 Jim Tate: We'd have nothing to do, and we'd just, be out in the grass, looking at clouds and seeing what animals they look like.
00:12:13.990 --> 00:12:19.219 Jim Tate: And we would be bored a lot, and out of boredom can come imagination.
00:12:19.420 --> 00:12:19.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:12:19.990 --> 00:12:30.580 Jim Tate: And with these computers that we carry around. I guess you can't see it. I was blocking it. Our our smartphones.
00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:39.339 Jim Tate: There's a real tendency to just be if you're waiting at a bus stop or at a daughter's office for 10 min to just start scrolling.
00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.329 Jim Tate: Basically to entertain ourselves, so we're always…
00:12:43.460 --> 00:12:50.280 Jim Tate: You know, the digital world works Pretty much against magic.
00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:51.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so.
00:12:51.460 --> 00:12:58.300 Jim Tate: So if you're in an area that's maybe more analog than digital, like, maybe in a rural area.
00:12:58.640 --> 00:13:02.370 Jim Tate: There's not broadband, or you're in Mexico, and you missed the bus.
00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:13.130 Jim Tate: You have to sit down on the curb and wait till somebody comes by and gives you a ride, and during that time serendipity can happen, or magic, as you call it.
00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:20.299 Jim Tate: So, you know, I think daydreaming is good.
00:13:20.850 --> 00:13:31.109 Jim Tate: You know, people have given up daydreaming to again scroll on smartphones. So I appreciate you very much for bringing that up. It's a good message for me to hear today, also.
00:13:31.110 --> 00:13:31.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:13:31.810 --> 00:13:32.869 Jim Tate: Thank you for that.
00:13:33.130 --> 00:13:40.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You're welcome. You're welcome. It's funny you say that because, you know, I'm a native New Yorker. I've been riding the New York subway since I was 11 years old.
00:13:40.870 --> 00:13:41.300 Jim Tate: Yeah.
00:13:41.300 --> 00:13:49.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it used to be when I was younger, when you're on the subway, you'd see everyone sitting down reading a book or reading the newspaper.
00:13:49.790 --> 00:13:50.170 Jim Tate: Sure.
00:13:50.170 --> 00:13:56.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Nowadays, you go in the subways and everybody, everybody, everybody is on their phone.
00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:02.070 Jim Tate: Yeah, something's happened.
00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:05.119 Jim Tate: And… and it's here right now, so… Yeah.
00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The age of distraction, right?
00:14:07.020 --> 00:14:11.480 Jim Tate: searching for entertainment. Yep. Exactly.
00:14:11.610 --> 00:14:20.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, so I'd like to give the audience just a little bit of… have you share a little bit of your background, because you've spent
00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:29.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 30 years, over 3 decades in healthcare, in an aspect of it that's not…
00:14:29.950 --> 00:14:35.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know, in R&D and not in, like, the cutting edge sort of it.
00:14:35.740 --> 00:14:50.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What got you interested in being an advocate for psychedelic use later in life, like first, just what got you into psychedelics and then and then focusing on this particular aspect.
00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:53.939 Jim Tate: Sure. Thanks for that intro, Sam.
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:57.140 Jim Tate: I was born in 1950.
00:14:57.390 --> 00:14:57.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:02.210 Jim Tate: Little town in Georgia, but I grew up in the suburbs of Atlanta.
00:15:02.970 --> 00:15:08.900 Jim Tate: And in 1967 in San Francisco, they had something called the Summer of Love.
00:15:08.900 --> 00:15:09.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:12.090 Jim Tate: I wasn't a part of it, but I sure heard about it.
00:15:12.220 --> 00:15:12.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:18.250 Jim Tate: And those underground chemists were cranking out psychedelics.
00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:26.110 Jim Tate: As much as they could, as long as they could, before they were caught and basically given life sentences in federal penitentiaries.
00:15:26.380 --> 00:15:29.020 Jim Tate: And during that time,
00:15:29.310 --> 00:15:34.910 Jim Tate: I had some friend who came up to me and said he wanted to turn me on. I had no idea what that meant.
00:15:35.280 --> 00:15:35.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the.
00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:38.189 Jim Tate: Gave me a little paper blotter.
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:42.690 Jim Tate: And, that night I found out what he was talking about, so,
00:15:43.410 --> 00:15:45.359 Jim Tate: During that period.
00:15:45.690 --> 00:15:57.339 Jim Tate: Late 60s, very early 70s, the concept of harm reduction, set and setting, none of that was part of our youth environment.
00:15:57.780 --> 00:16:04.990 Jim Tate: We just took strong psychedelics and would go to a concert or walk in the woods, which was a good thing.
00:16:05.260 --> 00:16:11.560 Jim Tate: Or go to a restaurant, or talk to our parents, which was not a good thing, as it turned out.
00:16:11.560 --> 00:16:21.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I remember one time I remember one time I took LSD in high school, and I forgot that.
00:16:21.280 --> 00:16:29.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that day after school, my mom was picking me up to go up to our country house in upstate New York, and she picks me up, and I'm like.
00:16:29.400 --> 00:16:39.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then I get in the car with her and for an hour long drive up to the country place and I'm there like high as a kite. I don't know how she did not realize how.
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:40.120 Jim Tate: No.
00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:40.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you.
00:16:40.610 --> 00:16:49.599 Jim Tate: I mean, I can still remember a similar thing with my mother. But then life happens.
00:16:50.150 --> 00:17:00.510 Jim Tate: I, moved around some, started a family, raised a family, paid mortgages, paid college tuition.
00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:10.589 Jim Tate: Create a career as a… First in healthcare delivery, but then as a consultant. In healthcare technology.
00:17:11.470 --> 00:17:19.080 Jim Tate: helping build the interfaces that'd be friendly for providers and a lot of regulatory matters. So that kept the light on.
00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:27.519 Jim Tate: But I… Always remember how, even as a teenager.
00:17:28.870 --> 00:17:36.409 Jim Tate: Oh… Not paying attention to, again, setting or intention or integration or anything else.
00:17:36.860 --> 00:17:41.040 Jim Tate: That what psychedelics exposed me to was.
00:17:41.310 --> 00:17:45.749 Jim Tate: There was more to, reality than
00:17:46.090 --> 00:17:47.870 Jim Tate: What I had been told it was.
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.610 Jim Tate: I was raised in a white suburb in a Baptist church.
00:17:51.970 --> 00:17:57.250 Jim Tate: And I thought that was that was the parameters of reality.
00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:04.279 Jim Tate: And suddenly, you know. I guess we used to call it consciousness, expansion.
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:09.319 Jim Tate: You see things in many different ways, so I never got over that.
00:18:09.590 --> 00:18:15.460 Jim Tate: But my interest kind of came back, maybe 6 or 7 years ago.
00:18:16.220 --> 00:18:29.070 Jim Tate: Certainly lived through the, 40- or 50-year oral drugs. You know, we had the anti-psychedelic hysteria of the late 60s, early 70s.
00:18:29.260 --> 00:18:32.410 Jim Tate: Timothy Leary was called the most dangerous man in America.
00:18:32.410 --> 00:18:33.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:18:33.270 --> 00:18:37.810 Jim Tate: He was definitely dangerous to the status quo. There was no doubt about that.
00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:38.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:47.100 Jim Tate: But psychedelics, there was a youth movement afoot and psychedelics helped fuel that to a certain degree.
00:18:47.570 --> 00:18:55.630 Jim Tate: I saw that youth movement along with appropriate use of media at the time to stop a war in Vietnam.
00:18:56.280 --> 00:19:02.509 Jim Tate: I saw the power that can happen with social movement. So I certainly never forgot that.
00:19:02.710 --> 00:19:04.969 Jim Tate: 5 or 6 years ago.
00:19:05.190 --> 00:19:10.909 Jim Tate: as I saw the war on drugs starting to wind down.
00:19:11.740 --> 00:19:21.759 Jim Tate: And I don't know if it started first with cannabis. You know, cannabis is still a Schedule 1 drug with heroin.
00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:23.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Federally, yeah.
00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:26.219 Jim Tate: Clearly fentanyl is a schedule three.
00:19:26.890 --> 00:19:27.420 Jim Tate: Fentanyl.
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:28.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Schedule 3, really?
00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:44.460 Jim Tate: Yeah, because there are some medical indications. If there are any medical indications, it can't be in schedule one. So that's part of the whole kind of thing. And so for until 1990 they were.
00:19:44.710 --> 00:19:48.910 Jim Tate: No clinical… legal clinical trials at all with psychedelics.
00:19:49.120 --> 00:19:49.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I.
00:19:49.530 --> 00:19:55.390 Jim Tate: In 1990, Rick Strassman, who wrote a great book, DMT, the Spirit Molecule.
00:19:55.390 --> 00:19:57.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've had him on my show.
00:19:57.430 --> 00:20:00.599 Jim Tate: I mean, that guy, he was it. He was the first one.
00:20:00.770 --> 00:20:02.250 Jim Tate: And
00:20:02.410 --> 00:20:09.339 Jim Tate: 30 years plus to be allowed by the government to give psychedelics to humans.
00:20:09.710 --> 00:20:10.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:16.439 Jim Tate: That kind of cracked the glass slowly. But then.
00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:25.839 Jim Tate: you know, 5 years ago is what they call the psychedelic Renaissance. I don't know if it's Renaissance 2.0 or 3.0. I don't know.
00:20:25.840 --> 00:20:26.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:27.720 Jim Tate: Which wave, Ren?
00:20:28.060 --> 00:20:36.800 Jim Tate: start to come through again, and the tide began to rise. Of course waves go back and forth as the tide rises.
00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:42.269 Jim Tate: And folks like Greg Doblin at Maps.
00:20:42.820 --> 00:20:48.250 Jim Tate: who had worked for 40 years now to get MDMA approved, and
00:20:48.360 --> 00:20:53.209 Jim Tate: There was some trouble with the FDA, but there were people behind the scenes pushing.
00:20:53.630 --> 00:20:57.470 Jim Tate: Yeah. To get, legal access.
00:20:58.090 --> 00:21:01.850 Jim Tate: And so, I saw that happening,
00:21:02.050 --> 00:21:08.849 Jim Tate: About 3 years ago, I went to the big MAPS conference in Denver, Psychedelic Science, they have it every 2 years now.
00:21:09.170 --> 00:21:13.739 Jim Tate: And really saw what was happening in terms of
00:21:13.950 --> 00:21:17.230 Jim Tate: Psychedelics, which have now been through
00:21:17.510 --> 00:21:21.580 Jim Tate: depending on which psychedelic numerous clinical trials
00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:27.270 Jim Tate: Very possible that psilocybin will get FDA approval.
00:21:27.610 --> 00:21:37.079 Jim Tate: For above-ground use by the end of this year, or first quarter of next year. Yeah. But enough trials have been done to show.
00:21:37.270 --> 00:21:38.900 Jim Tate: benefits.
00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:43.690 Jim Tate: And so, Sam, I'm interested in history.
00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:50.500 Jim Tate: I love the history of psychedelics going all the way back to ancient Greece.
00:21:50.650 --> 00:21:57.310 Jim Tate: Where there was an annual, psychedelic, beverage.
00:21:57.740 --> 00:22:14.930 Jim Tate: served to people once a year little town outside of Athens. He would do it one time in their life, and actually the title of I write under the auspices of something called Chronicles of Kykeon. Kykeon was the
00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:20.400 Jim Tate: Consciousness altering beverage that was served up for over 2,000 years.
00:22:21.010 --> 00:22:32.079 Jim Tate: Aristotle, Plato, all those people went. Men were allowed to go, women were allowed to go, royalty was allowed to go, slaves were allowed to go.
00:22:32.390 --> 00:22:32.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:22:32.990 --> 00:22:41.860 Jim Tate: 2,000 years. So I'm interested in everything from that history up through our history, the war on drugs, the current Renaissance.
00:22:42.070 --> 00:22:44.040 Jim Tate: Which has to do with.
00:22:44.290 --> 00:22:49.380 Jim Tate: above ground use Oregon.
00:22:49.940 --> 00:22:59.680 Jim Tate: Colorado, starting to… of course, not federally legal, but federal government's leaving them alone to allow, above ground use to a certain degree.
00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:06.169 Jim Tate: And even though I think you know what one of the major
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.780 Jim Tate: It's not a true psychedelic, but ketamine has been legalized.
00:23:12.020 --> 00:23:12.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:23:12.630 --> 00:23:18.509 Jim Tate: for treatment, resistant depression and other things. They're all kind of Ketamine clinics all over the place.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:33.380 Jim Tate: Something along that lines will probably be the way that psychedelics above ground are rolled out. We'll see about that. But one thing I'm really clear about, Sam, is that legalization does not mean access.
00:23:33.770 --> 00:23:34.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:23:34.540 --> 00:23:39.170 Jim Tate: Australia legalized psilocybin and MDMA three years ago.
00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.049 Jim Tate: But the requirements are so strict that.
00:23:43.050 --> 00:23:43.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can.
00:23:43.390 --> 00:23:46.530 Jim Tate: Three years, only 200 people have been through the process.
00:23:46.530 --> 00:23:47.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:23:47.860 --> 00:24:00.379 Jim Tate: In the same time there have been over 20,000 above ground sessions in Oregon. So legalization is not enough. There needs to be access. And of course, the issue of
00:24:00.730 --> 00:24:02.560 Jim Tate: affordable access.
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:03.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.629 Jim Tate: And, appropriateness.
00:24:07.040 --> 00:24:07.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:24:07.370 --> 00:24:20.319 Jim Tate: I could go on and on about it, but but I'll leave it there. So I got fascinated with it. I love to interview people who are making movies or writing books about psychedelics, or who are involved in
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:28.000 Jim Tate: trying to come up with some minimum standards for ceremonial centers involved with harm reduction.
00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:30.969 Jim Tate: It's a very dynamic field, and
00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:33.870 Jim Tate: It's something to be a part of, and to watch.
00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:44.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I know in particular around the ketamine, because my wife is a psychotherapist and she does ketamine assisted psychotherapy.
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:45.100 Jim Tate: Yes.
00:24:45.100 --> 00:24:55.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so it it's it's really been amazing to kind of watch with her, you know, side by side. She she got her certification with
00:24:56.450 --> 00:25:02.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The name just escapes me now. The person they call the godfather of ketamine.
00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:04.259 Jim Tate: I'm not sure who that is, yeah.
00:25:04.260 --> 00:25:07.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wilson.
00:25:07.300 --> 00:25:08.270 Jim Tate: Okay, yeah.
00:25:08.270 --> 00:25:23.989 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Phil Wolfson. You know, she got her training with Phil Wolfson, and just seeing, like, the changes in the clients, and how, you know, sometimes multiple sessions, sometimes a single session, and to just see, like, how much
00:25:24.250 --> 00:25:27.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Internal space opens up for someone.
00:25:27.510 --> 00:25:31.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: From it, and how they're able to hold things much
00:25:31.130 --> 00:25:48.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in a much more grounded and centered way, and I've seen the same kind of thing happen with people who engage in psychedelic work, that one of the biggest benefits of it is just how they show up in the world, and how they're able to
00:25:49.040 --> 00:26:00.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hold things that used to trigger them and, and cousins get angry and upset and annoyed how suddenly they're able to show up and, and, and approach life in, in a much
00:26:00.930 --> 00:26:09.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: kinder, gentler way, first to themselves, and because they're kinder and gentler with themselves, they're kinder and gentler with other people.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:18.359 Jim Tate: You know, you mentioned ketamine, and of course, ketamine is not, by the proper definition, not a psychedelic.
00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:21.689 Jim Tate: Because of the brain receptors that it hits.
00:26:21.690 --> 00:26:22.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, that it hits, right.
00:26:22.990 --> 00:26:37.779 Jim Tate: And… but that's also true of ibogaine, which is maybe the most powerful of any of these compounds, is that it is… it's hitting different brain receptors. So, as you're talking about ketamine, you know, these different compounds
00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:51.919 Jim Tate: have different beneficial effects. And correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems to me what I've heard so much about ketamine for treatment-resistant depression.
00:26:52.110 --> 00:27:00.860 Jim Tate: or if somebody is Of course, anybody…
00:27:01.010 --> 00:27:08.750 Jim Tate: who has active psychosis or is bipolar, big red flag for any of these medications.
00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:09.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:27:09.090 --> 00:27:20.470 Jim Tate: But for somebody who's having extreme depression and having thoughts of suicide, Ketamine seems to be… The, quickest…
00:27:20.790 --> 00:27:24.769 Jim Tate: potential intervention Right. From a chemical standpoint.
00:27:25.100 --> 00:27:34.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And one of the wonderful things about ketamine is you can do ketamine even if you're on different SSRIs and mood stabilizers, that it's safe.
00:27:34.840 --> 00:27:50.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Whereas most psychedelics, if you're on an SSRI or lithium or some other kind of mood stabilizer, that's a hard no. Like, that's a big, big red flag. So, it's one of the nice things is that even if you're on medication.
00:27:50.730 --> 00:27:55.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean, there's probably some exceptions, but ketamine is still very safe to work with.
00:27:55.990 --> 00:27:59.030 Jim Tate: You know, the one thing about ketamine,
00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:02.000 Jim Tate: Is that there's potential for abuse there.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:02.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:28:02.690 --> 00:28:04.670 Jim Tate: Because you don't build up a tolerance.
00:28:04.940 --> 00:28:05.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:28:05.270 --> 00:28:14.260 Jim Tate: And if people, Really, really like that, disassociative space.
00:28:14.610 --> 00:28:15.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and.
00:28:15.020 --> 00:28:23.120 Jim Tate: They may think, well, how often can I do that? So yes, definitely needs to be some guardrails.
00:28:23.120 --> 00:28:23.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, 100%.
00:28:23.950 --> 00:28:24.820 Jim Tate: use.
00:28:24.910 --> 00:28:35.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Which is why I'm a big believer in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. So it's the therapist is there kind of supervising everything that the client is not doing it on their own.
00:28:36.090 --> 00:28:42.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But this isn't a show about ketamine. I really want to get into our topic of psychedelics.
00:28:42.430 --> 00:28:42.880 Jim Tate: would.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:57.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in use and later in life. But we need to take a quick break. Let's do it. So why don't we break now? And when we come back, I want to just talk about your book. What was the inspiration behind it?
00:28:57.430 --> 00:29:08.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And really, what are… what are the difference in the considerations if you're over 55 or 60 doing psychedelics versus if in your 30s, 40s, or 50s, okay?
00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:10.080 Jim Tate: Sounds great.
00:29:10.530 --> 00:29:32.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. We do this every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on TalkRadio.nyc and all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest, Jim Tate, author of the book, Elders at the Threshold, Psychedelics for Seniors, in just a moment.
00:30:47.740 --> 00:31:01.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Jim, you got sort of interested in this, looking at the history and the topic around psychedelics. What got you specifically interested in psychedelic use in older people?
00:31:01.940 --> 00:31:07.069 Jim Tate: Well, I'm a member of that group that you called Old People.
00:31:07.070 --> 00:31:07.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I.
00:31:08.260 --> 00:31:14.380 Jim Tate: And so that's that's 1 reason. But and
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:23.699 Jim Tate: I I saw folks over a certain age, whether it's 50 or 60 or 70, were being excluded.
00:31:24.260 --> 00:31:28.660 Jim Tate: from the heralded potential and benefits.
00:31:29.340 --> 00:31:32.419 Jim Tate: of safe psychedelic.
00:31:32.800 --> 00:31:38.990 Jim Tate: Therapy, or activity, or ceremony, or whatever someone chooses to call it.
00:31:39.390 --> 00:31:43.900 Jim Tate: Folks who are.
00:31:44.390 --> 00:31:52.120 Jim Tate: of a certain age, again, whether it's past 55 or 70, whatever, who are in the latter chapters of their life.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:57.480 Jim Tate: have a, I like to say a suitcase full of grief that they've carried.
00:31:57.500 --> 00:31:58.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:31:58.120 --> 00:32:07.390 Jim Tate: of things they regret, of roads taken, of roads not taken, of relationships that ended, relationships that shouldn't have ended.
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:12.839 Jim Tate: dealing with the frailty and mortality.
00:32:13.090 --> 00:32:14.950 Jim Tate: Anxiety around death.
00:32:16.770 --> 00:32:21.529 Jim Tate: Diagnoses, bad diagnoses, to come to terms with all those kind of things.
00:32:21.790 --> 00:32:28.589 Jim Tate: So, I saw, and I've come to understand that there are a lot of people
00:32:29.110 --> 00:32:36.309 Jim Tate: In their 60s or 70s have very different, issues than somebody who is 30 or 35 years old.
00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:42.159 Jim Tate: And so one of the things I was curious about is why were those over a certain age
00:32:42.300 --> 00:32:45.170 Jim Tate: Left out of the research and the clinical trials.
00:32:45.280 --> 00:32:47.680 Jim Tate: And this is really by design.
00:32:47.970 --> 00:32:53.880 Jim Tate: Most clinical trials are written with upper age limits, often 65, sometimes lower.
00:32:54.620 --> 00:33:03.290 Jim Tate: They excluded people on a lot of medications with heart conditions, high blood pressure. That's a lot of people. They wanted clean data.
00:33:03.410 --> 00:33:06.520 Jim Tate: And people who, that they considered
00:33:07.510 --> 00:33:11.519 Jim Tate: Possibly too fragile to be in their database.
00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:24.509 Jim Tate: And actually, I recently saw the statistics of 36 different clinical studies of over 1,400 individuals, only 19.
00:33:25.190 --> 00:33:31.090 Jim Tate: We're over 65, and so that's, like, less than 2% of the people in clinical trials.
00:33:31.250 --> 00:33:36.280 Jim Tate: But the research shows That,
00:33:37.390 --> 00:33:43.820 Jim Tate: We've got these Phase 3 clinical trials, Compass Pathways has done them, they're probably the ones that are going to have
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:50.900 Jim Tate: psychedelics, at least their synthetic version of psilocybin approved by the FDA.
00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:55.739 Jim Tate: I don't bet these days, but if I did, I'd say, you know.
00:33:55.850 --> 00:33:58.130 Jim Tate: End of this year, first quarter, next year.
00:33:58.580 --> 00:34:03.739 Jim Tate: But there was clinical improvement.
00:34:03.850 --> 00:34:16.300 Jim Tate: you know, almost immediately, and then week 6 and week 26. So it's not a miracle cure. But the data shows
00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:20.449 Jim Tate: What it shows, that there are true benefits for this.
00:34:20.620 --> 00:34:25.460 Jim Tate: Now, one thing about psychedelics and people over a certain age.
00:34:26.900 --> 00:34:32.119 Jim Tate: Of course, there should be good screening. As we mentioned earlier, somebody who's got active
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:39.329 Jim Tate: who's schizophrenic or bipolar, or or has just lost their job, or just had a spouse die.
00:34:39.510 --> 00:34:47.749 Jim Tate: That may not be the best, psychological space to be in when you come in for a deep psychedelic experience.
00:34:48.080 --> 00:34:48.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:34:48.520 --> 00:34:54.290 Jim Tate: But there are other things that need to be considered.
00:34:56.179 --> 00:34:57.530 Jim Tate: What's psychedelic?
00:34:58.600 --> 00:35:06.200 Jim Tate: For in my experience and talking to folks and reading,
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:11.029 Jim Tate: a psychedelic like the classic Lsd.
00:35:11.240 --> 00:35:13.310 Jim Tate: Which can go 8 or 10 hours.
00:35:13.610 --> 00:35:25.919 Jim Tate: And at normal flood doses, is an exhausting, almost overwhelming experience, just physically and emotionally and psychologically.
00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:28.019 Jim Tate: For people even in their 30s.
00:35:28.640 --> 00:35:38.369 Jim Tate: As well as ibogaine, which is not a classic psychedelic, but it sure gives you a psychedelic experience that could go on for days.
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:58.319 Jim Tate: And there's a place for those. But for those who, maybe, did some psychedelics in their youth. And they're thinking about it again now. Or for those who have never experienced psychedelics, but are starting to read about it and hear about it more, as we are.
00:35:58.540 --> 00:36:13.529 Jim Tate: The issue seems to be, what psychedelics should they consider? In my opinion, psilocybin kind of checks most of the boxes for safe use.
00:36:13.650 --> 00:36:20.280 Jim Tate: Yeah. With the right environment, and with the right people around to support.
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:24.549 Jim Tate: During the experience, and then… and then after the experience.
00:36:24.980 --> 00:36:27.740 Jim Tate: So, oh.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:33.059 Jim Tate: You know, For… for depression.
00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:38.659 Jim Tate: There are quite a few of us who have been on pharmaceutical antidepressants.
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:40.019 Jim Tate: For decades.
00:36:40.750 --> 00:36:45.959 Jim Tate: And, those are things that are taken every day.
00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:51.230 Jim Tate: They have a tendency to really, if not numb someone emotionally.
00:36:52.250 --> 00:36:53.740 Jim Tate: Kind of put a…
00:36:54.220 --> 00:37:08.829 Jim Tate: a wet blanket on your, emotions. So you may not feel depressed, but you may not be able to feel joy or sadness, which are very different emotions. And so these psychedelics have the ability to maybe,
00:37:08.950 --> 00:37:14.470 Jim Tate: Whether it's one time or a time or two a year, I don't know, it just depends on everything.
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:21.600 Jim Tate: Be a much better option for a lot of folks, if we can get it
00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:26.129 Jim Tate: accessible in this country in a way that people
00:37:26.310 --> 00:37:31.720 Jim Tate: You know, Sam, you're not quite my age.
00:37:32.110 --> 00:37:32.620 Jim Tate: But…
00:37:32.620 --> 00:37:36.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Not quite, but next year I'll be officially a senior.
00:37:36.680 --> 00:37:43.050 Jim Tate: Okay, and so you have. And I and folks our age have taken
00:37:43.390 --> 00:37:50.739 Jim Tate: for decades and decades, with a list of to do things, mortgages to pay things to track.
00:37:51.090 --> 00:37:56.350 Jim Tate: trying to keep her head above water in the American economy, and…
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:02.200 Jim Tate: the O and the you know, the ebb and flow of of the culture.
00:38:02.890 --> 00:38:05.970 Jim Tate: And so that can end up being a cage.
00:38:06.270 --> 00:38:18.970 Jim Tate: That's what I do. I try and avoid risk and keep my family safe, and do I need long-term care insurance? Or, you know, there's a million different things that we have tracked for decades.
00:38:19.370 --> 00:38:24.959 Jim Tate: And so it can become a golden cage. And I think that psychedelics
00:38:25.180 --> 00:38:29.969 Jim Tate: Have an opportunity, again, not only to be used for
00:38:30.910 --> 00:38:34.189 Jim Tate: Treatment for the maladies of…
00:38:34.330 --> 00:38:39.799 Jim Tate: Modern life, which is depression and loneliness and anxiety and things like that.
00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:44.910 Jim Tate: But then, on the other side, more, maybe more what we would call ceremonial side.
00:38:45.570 --> 00:38:49.329 Jim Tate: To, experience states of grace.
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:56.990 Jim Tate: You know, people, whatever, religion somebody is or isn't, all those old scriptures.
00:38:57.150 --> 00:39:00.350 Jim Tate: Every culture talks about these states of grace.
00:39:00.610 --> 00:39:04.360 Jim Tate: Well, how often do people experience that in modern America?
00:39:04.630 --> 00:39:09.619 Jim Tate: You know, so a lot of potential benefits.
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:14.759 Jim Tate: I believe it needs to be done safely. I believe it can be done safely.
00:39:14.930 --> 00:39:19.410 Jim Tate: And, I think the… Bottom line for me.
00:39:19.660 --> 00:39:23.879 Jim Tate: And this is my book, Elders at the Threshold, which to me
00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:26.589 Jim Tate: I wanted to write that for my generation.
00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:27.240 Jim Tate: and…
00:39:27.240 --> 00:39:44.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. Like, it's one thing to sort of study and, you know, talk about these topics, but what got you to decide that, you know what, I really need to write a book about this. I need to put pen to paper and, you know, talk about this more formally.
00:39:44.790 --> 00:39:52.010 Jim Tate: Yeah, well, I've always liked to write, and so, I had written a… Substack.
00:39:52.730 --> 00:39:59.320 Jim Tate: called Chronicles of Kaikyan for for quite some time different things. But then.
00:39:59.830 --> 00:40:04.790 Jim Tate: I don't know how the seed got planted within me, Sam.
00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:09.159 Jim Tate: But, I started thinking about people my age.
00:40:09.670 --> 00:40:17.329 Jim Tate: Who, again, had been through this decade, decade, decade war on drugs, and
00:40:17.560 --> 00:40:21.159 Jim Tate: And been told all these horrible, hysterical lies.
00:40:21.160 --> 00:40:21.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:40:21.590 --> 00:40:23.200 Jim Tate: Go into what those lives were.
00:40:23.490 --> 00:40:31.530 Jim Tate: And… You know… I'm at the age now where, Sam, I'm interested in giving back.
00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:35.020 Jim Tate: And so I wrote this kind of as a valentine.
00:40:35.130 --> 00:40:52.729 Jim Tate: Don't expect to make money on it. Don't expect to even break even if anybody contacts me, I'll send you a full Pdf. Of the whole book. I'm just trying to say, I think this is knowledge for people of my age, or people who care about people my age.
00:40:52.950 --> 00:40:56.480 Jim Tate: To have… some education, because
00:40:56.610 --> 00:41:02.020 Jim Tate: If you just go with the main primary media.
00:41:02.290 --> 00:41:17.359 Jim Tate: it's either hope, you know, or hype out there, you know, people saying, oh, well, if you do psilocybin, it'll cure Alzheimer's, you know, stuff like, you know, just stuff that's actually not proven at all. So you got that on one side, then you got the other side saying.
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:20.700 Jim Tate: Boy, that drove everybody crazy 60 years ago, so…
00:41:20.700 --> 00:41:21.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:25.040 Jim Tate: That's why I wrote it, really just as a gift.
00:41:25.580 --> 00:41:26.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The.
00:41:26.260 --> 00:41:29.280 Jim Tate: It's a legacy, because I think it's important for the information.
00:41:29.540 --> 00:41:39.850 Jim Tate: and I want to raise the level of dialogue, especially among folks my age. And and one other thing about it. I had seen that
00:41:40.090 --> 00:41:45.520 Jim Tate: There's some big organizations who are working to get access
00:41:45.700 --> 00:41:50.950 Jim Tate: psychedelic, assisted therapy to veterans coming back with PTSD.
00:41:51.230 --> 00:41:53.620 Jim Tate: And for other similar groups.
00:41:53.740 --> 00:42:00.410 Jim Tate: And so I started thinking about, well, what about those folks of us that don't have a lot of time left?
00:42:01.330 --> 00:42:03.559 Jim Tate: You know, but, but,
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:11.470 Jim Tate: It was just never too old to heal or to grow or to experience wonder.
00:42:11.470 --> 00:42:11.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the.
00:42:11.850 --> 00:42:12.800 Jim Tate: That's why I wrote it.
00:42:13.210 --> 00:42:25.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, it's kind of interesting, isn't it, that there were all kinds of clinical trials, for people who had terminal cancer.
00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:25.940 Jim Tate: Yes.
00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:34.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So they were near the end of life, sort of from artificial means, but they didn't do anything for people who are elder, who are also near the end of life.
00:42:34.220 --> 00:42:35.200 Jim Tate: Exactly.
00:42:35.390 --> 00:42:39.400 Jim Tate: Yeah, you know, and
00:42:41.640 --> 00:42:48.580 Jim Tate: To me the whole psychedelic movement right now, certainly in the Us. Is a petri dish.
00:42:49.030 --> 00:42:49.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:42:49.430 --> 00:42:53.259 Jim Tate: We got people running around saying, calling themselves shamans.
00:42:53.600 --> 00:42:54.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:42:54.220 --> 00:42:58.809 Jim Tate: And, you know, if you look into it, you see what real shamans are, you know?
00:42:58.810 --> 00:43:01.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a very,
00:43:01.460 --> 00:43:07.360 Jim Tate: Yeah, from an indigenous thing, psychedelics were used throughout the world as
00:43:07.650 --> 00:43:15.950 Jim Tate: within a community. Right. And so, community, in a lot of ways, unfortunately for most people, yes, has broken down.
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:16.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:43:16.630 --> 00:43:18.689 Jim Tate: So, we're having to create new…
00:43:18.990 --> 00:43:25.889 Jim Tate: sectors or vectors or or containers for for psychedelic psychedelic work.
00:43:26.610 --> 00:43:27.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:43:27.210 --> 00:43:27.730 Jim Tate: Yeah.
00:43:29.250 --> 00:43:39.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The book has been out a little while now, right? I'm I'm just curious what kinds of responses have you been getting from the book? What have you heard people saying about it?
00:43:42.580 --> 00:43:47.440 Jim Tate: You know, Abby Rosner, who I believe you said you met last week.
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:49.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, and I've had her on my show.
00:43:49.730 --> 00:43:59.730 Jim Tate: Yeah. There's an episode in this. Abby's a very strong advocate for potential psychedelics with what she calls elderhood.
00:43:59.730 --> 00:44:00.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: elder.
00:44:00.050 --> 00:44:02.580 Jim Tate: And it was almost,
00:44:03.220 --> 00:44:09.220 Jim Tate: kind of a synchronicity. Both of our books came out within a week of each other.
00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:10.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, really?
00:44:10.450 --> 00:44:20.359 Jim Tate: Yeah, I mean, yeah, right at the beginning, you know, entering the summer. And so, of course, we immediately connected, not as competitors, but as collaborators.
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:20.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So.
00:44:20.810 --> 00:44:32.010 Jim Tate: So we work together as much as possible. We appear together, we're on podcasts together, those kind of things. So I forget, what was your original question, Sam? I'm sorry.
00:44:32.020 --> 00:44:33.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: About the responses you've gotten.
00:44:33.740 --> 00:44:34.120 Jim Tate: Oh, yeah.
00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:34.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: your.
00:44:34.520 --> 00:44:50.600 Jim Tate: Yeah, very positive. I mean, some folks will ask you questions about psychedelics a little bit, and I say, well, here's a copy of my book. If you're interested, they may not even take it. Other people take it and say.
00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:59.150 Jim Tate: you know, I'd like to talk more about this. I'm not saying it's for everybody, to them, but I'm certainly open to…
00:44:59.870 --> 00:45:05.599 Jim Tate: to the discussion. So I just trust the process. I'm
00:45:08.030 --> 00:45:12.060 Jim Tate: I guess I view myself a little bit as a Johnny Appleseed.
00:45:12.240 --> 00:45:12.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm just trying.
00:45:12.810 --> 00:45:14.440 Jim Tate: Time to plant seeds, and…
00:45:14.600 --> 00:45:23.350 Jim Tate: And here's everything I could find out, and I believe, about psychedelics, especially for those who I consider elders.
00:45:23.670 --> 00:45:30.679 Jim Tate: And And just, you know, cast it out of the waters, and where it lands, and if it…
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:33.350 Jim Tate: Who has ears to hear is therefore.
00:45:33.350 --> 00:45:39.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. So let me ask you a slightly different question. What do you hope people get out of the book?
00:45:39.370 --> 00:45:39.940 Jim Tate: go.
00:45:40.410 --> 00:45:47.510 Jim Tate: I hope that the, fear and trepidation.
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:51.769 Jim Tate: That has been over this, entire…
00:45:53.630 --> 00:46:01.700 Jim Tate: Endeavor, for lack of a better word, kind of gets, moderated down.
00:46:01.700 --> 00:46:02.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: somewhat.
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:05.970 Jim Tate: So that, the potential
00:46:06.660 --> 00:46:14.619 Jim Tate: and and the benefits that can come to people of you know any adult age, but certainly older adults.
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:21.729 Jim Tate: It's not seen as scary or risky as it is currently perceived in.
00:46:21.730 --> 00:46:22.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:46:22.870 --> 00:46:28.330 Jim Tate: So that's really my goal to say, well, here's what the science shows.
00:46:28.570 --> 00:46:33.740 Jim Tate: There, and I think that's, we're…
00:46:34.310 --> 00:46:47.899 Jim Tate: I've… I'll tell you, I've been wrong so many times in life, Sam. I think we're at a tipping point on all this, but there have been other times I've thought we're at a tipping point. No, - we weren't at a tipping point yet. And so, as, these…
00:46:48.530 --> 00:46:50.270 Jim Tate: What do we call them? Compok.
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:51.750 Jim Tate: compounds.
00:46:51.750 --> 00:46:53.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sacred compounds, yeah.
00:46:53.160 --> 00:46:58.759 Jim Tate: Agri-compounds, sacraments, plant medicines, whatever you want to call them.
00:46:59.020 --> 00:47:05.100 Jim Tate: When they go above ground next year, I think that may…
00:47:05.260 --> 00:47:09.449 Jim Tate: Work against 50 years of propaganda.
00:47:09.450 --> 00:47:10.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:10.990 Jim Tate: Trying to blossom.
00:47:10.990 --> 00:47:11.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:47:11.950 --> 00:47:16.239 Jim Tate: It's hard to overcome all that propaganda that we've heard for 50 years.
00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:17.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Absolutely.
00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:27.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious… If someone is listening to this show and let's say they're 65, 70, 75.
00:47:28.220 --> 00:47:33.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe they've never done touched a psychedelic in their life, never even smoked pot.
00:47:33.780 --> 00:47:44.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But they've been hearing more about it, and they they're considering trying it because maybe they don't just feel so good, or maybe they have some regrets in their life.
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:44.920 Jim Tate: Hmm.
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:54.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What would be your recommendation to somebody who's like doesn't know anything but wants to dip their toe in the water and give it a try now?
00:47:54.540 --> 00:47:55.120 Jim Tate: Yeah.
00:47:55.490 --> 00:48:02.099 Jim Tate: Well, first, st let me say, you know, younger folks come to this work with a specific problem.
00:48:02.220 --> 00:48:04.670 Jim Tate: Trauma, depression, or addiction?
00:48:04.780 --> 00:48:12.110 Jim Tate: An older person usually brings a whole life with them, decades of relationships, and we talk about losses, regrets.
00:48:12.250 --> 00:48:15.180 Jim Tate: Questions about the meaning of life, all that kind of stuff.
00:48:15.370 --> 00:48:18.410 Jim Tate: So, if… if somebody…
00:48:19.540 --> 00:48:25.409 Jim Tate: came to me and say, I want to dip my toe with this, I want to know more about it.
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:32.700 Jim Tate: There are folks… In every city.
00:48:32.830 --> 00:48:37.519 Jim Tate: I know folks in my city, that I trust who…
00:48:37.810 --> 00:48:43.940 Jim Tate: Do a good job of screening folks.
00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:53.529 Jim Tate: Of preparing, space, ritual space, who holds safe space, who take care of people before, during, and after.
00:48:53.810 --> 00:48:59.539 Jim Tate: And I would recommend them to, you know, to somebody like that.
00:48:59.710 --> 00:49:02.060 Jim Tate: Also,
00:49:02.520 --> 00:49:07.940 Jim Tate: I think if somebody who's 65 or 70 came to me and said they want to dip their toe on it.
00:49:08.080 --> 00:49:11.550 Jim Tate: I would recommend psilocybin.
00:49:12.950 --> 00:49:20.800 Jim Tate: And, psilocybin mushrooms, and I would recommend the approach of start low and go slow.
00:49:21.460 --> 00:49:31.379 Jim Tate: Be in a safe place with people who are experienced with these states, can take care of you, whether it's doing individual or group work. I like group work.
00:49:32.100 --> 00:49:40.069 Jim Tate: And take a very low dose, and then maybe wait an hour and see if you'd like to maybe go deeper.
00:49:41.740 --> 00:49:43.210 Jim Tate: To explore that space.
00:49:43.790 --> 00:49:45.059 Jim Tate: You know, we…
00:49:45.060 --> 00:49:52.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We briefly mentioned it before, but we didn't really get into it about How has…
00:49:52.450 --> 00:49:57.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: your use of psychedelics help you to deal with your mortality?
00:49:57.780 --> 00:49:58.170 Jim Tate: Okay.
00:49:58.170 --> 00:50:00.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Has it helped you to be
00:50:00.710 --> 00:50:13.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to have a spiritual experience? Like, do you feel more comfortable or is it just helped you to be more accepting of, you know, the cycle of life?
00:50:14.180 --> 00:50:21.589 Jim Tate: Well, this is a very personal question, and by that I mean an individual question. So, I,
00:50:22.510 --> 00:50:24.289 Jim Tate: I rarely take psychedelics.
00:50:24.500 --> 00:50:31.479 Jim Tate: probably three years ago I did a psychedelic
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:36.050 Jim Tate: ceremony with a group of people that was led by some people I trusted.
00:50:36.790 --> 00:50:41.269 Jim Tate: And, in that experience.
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:43.090 Jim Tate: Oh!
00:50:45.080 --> 00:50:50.660 Jim Tate: You know, when we talk about words like healing, you know, that's the best word we have.
00:50:51.240 --> 00:50:54.860 Jim Tate: It's not a great word, because it can mean so many different things.
00:50:55.070 --> 00:51:06.220 Jim Tate: But, I felt on a very, very deep level that… Some primordial force.
00:51:06.740 --> 00:51:08.140 Jim Tate: was blessing me.
00:51:08.590 --> 00:51:09.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:51:10.470 --> 00:51:12.150 Jim Tate: That's not a bad thing to feel.
00:51:12.380 --> 00:51:12.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:14.110 Jim Tate: Or experience.
00:51:14.270 --> 00:51:17.469 Jim Tate: So, that was kind of the core of that.
00:51:17.610 --> 00:51:25.000 Jim Tate: Maybe 2 a year after that, 2 years ago, I took kind of a light dose of psilocybin.
00:51:25.290 --> 00:51:26.830 Jim Tate: By myself.
00:51:27.290 --> 00:51:27.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:31.640 Jim Tate: And what came up for me was some
00:51:32.020 --> 00:51:34.170 Jim Tate: Regrets I had in my life.
00:51:35.250 --> 00:51:37.940 Jim Tate: And, two in particular.
00:51:38.370 --> 00:51:43.660 Jim Tate: That I felt, bad about, I had shame about, I had some guilt about.
00:51:44.110 --> 00:51:52.750 Jim Tate: And so, I went to that person that, you know, was the other side of that afterwards.
00:51:53.290 --> 00:51:56.070 Jim Tate: And, it said…
00:51:56.200 --> 00:52:07.570 Jim Tate: you know, I'm sorry I did these two things, you know. So, you know, one side… one bit was kind of a blessing, the other one helped me do some deeper work that freed me up from something I was…
00:52:07.910 --> 00:52:12.040 Jim Tate: suppressing. I still don't feel good I did those things, but I'm not carrying that
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:15.679 Jim Tate: You know, deep, almost soul level.
00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:18.010 Jim Tate: Yeah, I was bad for doing it.
00:52:18.530 --> 00:52:19.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:19.880 Jim Tate: Yeah.
00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:24.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you. No, thank you for sharing. I'd like to…
00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:29.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hear people's personal experience because I find my audience.
00:52:29.390 --> 00:52:32.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We relate to people. We relate to individuals.
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:50.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so it's helpful. But it's also really interesting that you don't do psychedelics that much, yet you wrote a book about it. So that, to me, is very interesting, because most people who I've interviewed on this topic, they're very,
00:52:50.270 --> 00:53:01.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They're very much evangelistic about Psychedelics because of how it changed their life and their own use and everything. So that's actually quite interesting to hear.
00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:08.290 Jim Tate: Yeah, I don't consider, you know, those folks often will call themselves a psychonaut. I don't consider myself a psychonaut.
00:53:08.500 --> 00:53:11.050 Jim Tate: I certainly don't carry a card.
00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:23.149 Jim Tate: business card with Psychonaut on it. But everybody has a different path. Yeah. And I've been thinking that sometime in the next 6 months I might.
00:53:23.870 --> 00:53:32.349 Jim Tate: Do another ceremony. It just depends. You know, it just depends. But always, I've been a writer and a researcher.
00:53:32.540 --> 00:53:37.790 Jim Tate: So, this was a topic that really Really… Really drew me in.
00:53:38.510 --> 00:53:39.300 Jim Tate: No.
00:53:39.300 --> 00:53:44.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do you feel like this particular topic about elder use and psychedelics?
00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:49.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That, I mean, Abby was the first person I met who, who talked about it. Now you're the.
00:53:49.670 --> 00:53:50.120 Jim Tate: Alright.
00:53:50.120 --> 00:54:01.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The second person I'm having on my show, do you feel like, like this topic is going to become something more prevalent given that boomers are aging and that, you know, and Abby said.
00:54:01.160 --> 00:54:01.510 Jim Tate: your.
00:54:01.510 --> 00:54:04.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Friday night that, like, you know, we…
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:13.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The boomer generation kind of revolutionized being young, because so many, and now maybe it's the boomer's time to revolutionize being old.
00:54:13.830 --> 00:54:18.429 Jim Tate: You know, and yeah, one thing I really like about Abby's
00:54:19.350 --> 00:54:23.679 Jim Tate: vision on this is not only the individual, but the collective.
00:54:24.180 --> 00:54:24.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:54:24.780 --> 00:54:29.100 Jim Tate: And so, you know, there was a youth movement.
00:54:30.170 --> 00:54:33.160 Jim Tate: That was pretty wild, but did some good stuff.
00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:38.929 Jim Tate: What if those same folks or that same cohort, you know, if there was an elder movement.
00:54:39.670 --> 00:54:45.589 Jim Tate: You know, and there are a lot of things that, We could,
00:54:45.930 --> 00:54:49.109 Jim Tate: Rise up about again. I mean, you know, we live in a country
00:54:49.350 --> 00:54:58.339 Jim Tate: Sam, where the laws and stipulations, regulations allow trillionaires to be created.
00:54:58.490 --> 00:55:14.260 Jim Tate: But we don't have universal health care, so that's just one little thing there. So there's a lot that can be done, and Abby's very active in that collective. I think she calls it elder vision circles.
00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:14.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:55:14.750 --> 00:55:21.150 Jim Tate: And so, which is an important thing. But yeah, we're starting to see the books come out about elders and psychedelics.
00:55:21.670 --> 00:55:26.799 Jim Tate: The movies are coming out. I mentioned when you and I were talking before, Scott Wright, the next chapter.
00:55:27.310 --> 00:55:30.909 Jim Tate: A great documentary.
00:55:31.250 --> 00:55:41.439 Jim Tate: And I think at the MAPS conference, Psychedelic Science next year, there are going to be some tracks just for elders and psychedelics.
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:42.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wonderful.
00:55:42.350 --> 00:55:47.780 Jim Tate: Yeah, and I'm starting to see ceremonies that are just being done for people over a certain age.
00:55:48.930 --> 00:55:51.499 Jim Tate: So, yeah, it's…
00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:52.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good.
00:55:52.330 --> 00:55:57.440 Jim Tate: Certainly growing. I will do what I can to help it grow. Wonderful. And I'm responsible.
00:55:58.180 --> 00:56:01.100 Jim Tate: But, universal way.
00:56:01.310 --> 00:56:03.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, same here, same.
00:56:03.210 --> 00:56:03.890 Jim Tate: here.
00:56:04.770 --> 00:56:11.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Jim, I could talk with you for hours. I hope if you ever come up to New York City, you'll let me know so we can talk.
00:56:11.370 --> 00:56:12.140 Jim Tate: We love Chris.
00:56:12.560 --> 00:56:19.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But if people want to reach out to you, learn more about your work, where can they find you online? Where can they go?
00:56:19.550 --> 00:56:27.340 Jim Tate: You know, the easiest place is a website, Silencia, P-S-Y-L-E-N-C-I-A.
00:56:27.410 --> 00:56:42.250 Jim Tate: silency.com. There are links there to my book, to all the podcasts, to the Youtube videos, substack. And you can contact me there. The books are available from Amazon. People don't.
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:55.380 Jim Tate: Some people don't like to order from Amazon, that's fine. It's distributed through a distributor, so you go to your local bookstore, and they can order it for you through your bookstore. So, a lot of different ways to get information. And again, if you want to reach out to me.
00:56:55.980 --> 00:56:59.090 Jim Tate: I just want to copy the PDF.
00:56:59.340 --> 00:57:02.460 Jim Tate: Shoot me an email, I'll send you a PDF. Glad to.
00:57:02.460 --> 00:57:05.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That, that's so generous of you, Jim. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
00:57:05.620 --> 00:57:06.609 Jim Tate: Spread the word.
00:57:06.850 --> 00:57:10.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Will do, will do. One last question.
00:57:10.340 --> 00:57:11.130 Jim Tate: Thursday.
00:57:11.130 --> 00:57:13.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What comes next for Jim Tate?
00:57:13.020 --> 00:57:17.170 Jim Tate: Yeah, oh, thank you. You know, I'm…
00:57:19.630 --> 00:57:26.700 Jim Tate: I'm still doing a lot of research. I want to do what I can that.
00:57:26.800 --> 00:57:32.370 Jim Tate: When retreat centers and ceremonial centers
00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:40.620 Jim Tate: Expand even more, starting next year, that there is… Some type of agreed.
00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:56.370 Jim Tate: level of safety, certain types of screening, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so, I'm very involved in that. And I also, wrote, which just keeps changing, a psychedelic Bill of Rights.
00:57:56.490 --> 00:57:58.860 Jim Tate: I'll send you a copy of that from my Substack.
00:57:58.860 --> 00:57:59.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Please.
00:57:59.520 --> 00:58:03.350 Jim Tate: And so people keep adding amendments to it. So we're gonna keep working on that.
00:58:03.350 --> 00:58:15.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wonderful, wonderful. Well, Jim, thank you so much for taking the time to come on my show. I really appreciate it, and I really appreciate all that you're doing, and I would love to keep in touch.
00:58:15.980 --> 00:58:17.469 Jim Tate: Yep, Sam, I would too.
00:58:17.570 --> 00:58:19.010 Jim Tate: Sam, keep the faith.
00:58:19.300 --> 00:58:20.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Will do Will.
00:58:20.410 --> 00:58:21.319 Jim Tate: Okay, my friend.
00:58:21.660 --> 00:58:41.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show. And don't forget, if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on TalkRadio.nyc and on your favorite podcasting app. Everything from Apple to Spotify to Pandora to iHeartRadio to Amazon.
00:58:41.270 --> 00:58:45.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Take care, everyone. We will talk to you all next week.
00:58:46.520 --> 00:58:47.530 Jim Tate: Thank you so much.
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