EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Jeff Abraham, CEO of Promescent, a sexual wellness company he has led for more than a decade.
But Jeff's story is not really a product story. It is the story of what happens when someone chooses to run a business by a different set of rules, where loyalty, integrity, and honoring the people who came before are treated as non-negotiable, not optional.
After discovering a groundbreaking treatment developed by urologist Dr. Ronald Gilbert, Jeff invested in the product, became the majority owner, and launched what became the company's flagship offering. Since 2013, he has built it into a full-spectrum wellness company with more than five million bottles sold and over four thousand healthcare professionals recommending the brand.
What makes Jeff's journey worth telling is not the growth of the company, but how he has grown it. Along the way, there have been moments where he could have taken the easier or more profitable path, and instead chose to honor his friend and business partner in ways he was under no obligation to do. He simply believed it was the right thing. That kind of decision-making is quiet, unglamorous, and increasingly rare in a business culture that often rewards the opposite. It is also, in Jeff's experience, the very thing that has allowed the company to endure and thrive over the long arc.
Together, Sam and Jeff explore what it actually looks like to build an ethical business in a world that too often treats ethics as a marketing message rather than a lived practice. They discuss the difference between running a company for profits and running a company for people, the moments that reveal a leader's real values, and why the way we treat our partners, our employees, and our customers is ultimately the truest measure of any business. This episode is an invitation for entrepreneurs to consider that success and integrity are not opposing forces, and that doing right by the people around us is, in the long run, the most sustainable business strategy there is.
Tune in and share your own questions and comments about integrity in the business world on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://www.promescent.com/saml15
This episode opens with Sam Liebowitz's blog reflection, "Real presence is the only answer to feeling disconnected," a candid, personal meditation on how phones and technology pull us away from the people physically in front of us — and a gentle call, inspired by conversations with his therapist wife, to reclaim true presence as the antidote to modern isolation. He then welcomes Jeff Abraham, CEO of the sexual wellness company Promescent, whose story centers not on products but on values — after the sudden loss of the company's founder, Dr. Ronald Gilbert, Jeff chose to lead with integrity, loyalty, and a commitment to honoring his mentor's healing-centered legacy rather than chasing profit. Jeff shares how trust, ethics, and consistency — hallmarks he says came from being raised with love despite financial hardship — became the foundation of the company's rapid, values-driven growth, offering listeners a real-world case study in conscious, purpose-led business leadership.
Jeff explains that owning a controlling stake and taking a long-term view — prioritizing his shareholders, employees, and the next decade over quarterly returns — freed him from the profit pressure that drives many CEOs away from values-based leadership, allowing loyalty and purpose to remain the company's true bottom line. He speaks candidly about the uphill battle small, ethical businesses face against tech giants like Amazon, Google, and Meta, describing predatory practices, unfair search visibility, and "channel power" that favor scale over quality, and urges small business owners to meet that imbalance with unrelenting tenacity rather than resignation. He closes with a moving reflection on his late mentor Dr. Ronald Gilbert, sharing how every retail milestone — from Target to a company forklift — has become a quiet act of remembrance, reinforcing that his drive comes not from financial need but from love, loyalty, and honoring a promise made to a friend who didn't live to see it fulfilled.
00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:53.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my Conscious co-creators! Good morning, good evening, wherever you're tuning in from. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today.
00:00:53.270 --> 00:00:57.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We've got another wonderful show in store for you.
00:00:57.400 --> 00:01:13.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hopefully my guest will be showing up, and if not, we will just have a conversation between you and me, so, please feel free to comment on the livestream, post your comments, your questions, let's make this an interactive session, alright?
00:01:14.530 --> 00:01:31.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you all for tuning in, and of course, as we always do, we start off with my blog post from a couple of years ago, just kind of taking these in order, and today's blog post is entitled.
00:01:32.270 --> 00:01:38.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Real presence is the only answer to feeling disconnected.
00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:44.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There is so much in our world that separates and distracts us.
00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:48.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Everything from social media to the news.
00:01:49.030 --> 00:01:52.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can be hard to find common ground.
00:01:52.430 --> 00:01:55.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Something that we couldn't agree upon.
00:01:55.540 --> 00:02:00.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or even something we can just talk about without getting upset.
00:02:02.610 --> 00:02:08.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We have a hard time to even just be present to the person who is with us.
00:02:10.050 --> 00:02:12.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To give them our full attention.
00:02:12.660 --> 00:02:26.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As our phones buzz us with a message from someone else far away, it can be easy to make the person who is not in the room with us more important than the person standing right in front of us.
00:02:28.980 --> 00:02:30.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So we disconnect.
00:02:31.220 --> 00:02:33.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With what we already have.
00:02:34.010 --> 00:02:36.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For something we hope to have.
00:02:38.920 --> 00:02:46.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe it is the person Who is with us makes us feel uncomfortable in some ways.
00:02:46.510 --> 00:02:51.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And because of that, we would rather try to connect with someone who is not here.
00:02:52.600 --> 00:02:55.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The distraction can give us some needed space.
00:02:56.980 --> 00:03:02.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or, it can be a way to avoid what we do not want to deal with.
00:03:03.940 --> 00:03:08.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Either way, we get disconnected to the present moment.
00:03:09.510 --> 00:03:13.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We feel disconnected to the person who is with us.
00:03:13.690 --> 00:03:20.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Using our devices to replace that connection with a facsimile of connection.
00:03:21.070 --> 00:03:24.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet that is not real connection.
00:03:24.660 --> 00:03:31.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is possible to feel more connected with someone who is miles away or on the other side of the world.
00:03:33.730 --> 00:03:41.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Without the physical proximity, though, We still feel disconnected and alienated.
00:03:42.470 --> 00:03:48.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Which gives us one more reason to separate from the world around us.
00:03:49.740 --> 00:03:58.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Real connection only happens when we have an experience of another person in the physical world.
00:04:00.760 --> 00:04:03.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To hold and be held.
00:04:04.180 --> 00:04:06.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or to laugh and cry together.
00:04:07.910 --> 00:04:10.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And experience human touch.
00:04:12.700 --> 00:04:14.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Comfort and caring.
00:04:16.380 --> 00:04:20.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That only happens when we are with the person we care about.
00:04:21.089 --> 00:04:23.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And who cares about us?
00:04:24.840 --> 00:04:33.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The connection in the physical world is about so much more Than a physical relationship.
00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:36.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: true… Presence.
00:04:36.760 --> 00:04:40.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Creates that kind of connection.
00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:45.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It nourishes our soul and feeds our heart.
00:04:46.980 --> 00:04:55.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So is it any wonder why so much of this world feels disconnected and alone?
00:04:57.180 --> 00:05:04.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How much time and effort To put towards being present to the people who surround us.
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:14.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How much time and effort do we put towards being present to the people who surround us? There is no substitute.
00:05:14.940 --> 00:05:21.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It may not always be pleasant to truly be with what is happening right in front of us.
00:05:22.450 --> 00:05:24.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, presence.
00:05:24.110 --> 00:05:27.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is the only antidote for disconnection.
00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:41.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And the miracle that might happen is that as we are present to the uncomfortable and unwanted situations, we may find a deeper connection.
00:05:41.780 --> 00:05:47.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Far deeper than any virtual or long-distance connection.
00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:52.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Are you truly giving your full presence?
00:05:52.890 --> 00:05:55.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To those around you.
00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:07.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… I, this actually is a very personal Post.
00:06:07.950 --> 00:06:18.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that… I mean, I really, in some ways, can't take credit for it, because, this is…
00:06:19.700 --> 00:06:24.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from conversations that me and my wife had, and my wife…
00:06:25.010 --> 00:06:29.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: who's a therapist. I've talked about her a lot on the show.
00:06:30.650 --> 00:06:37.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: She truly… Has the ability to be present with people.
00:06:39.330 --> 00:06:49.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But I, like many people, you know, I, I…
00:06:50.450 --> 00:07:02.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I can get distracted by my phone easily, but with technology, since I'm with technology all the time, people message me.
00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:10.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so…
00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:16.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: She often will call me out.
00:07:17.130 --> 00:07:19.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For not being that present.
00:07:19.650 --> 00:07:21.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With her, in the room.
00:07:22.660 --> 00:07:28.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or, for just not being… Present in some situation that she happens to be there.
00:07:32.490 --> 00:07:40.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so… This blog post is really a post to myself, more than anyone else.
00:07:41.740 --> 00:07:45.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's really about… Reminding myself.
00:07:47.130 --> 00:07:48.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How important.
00:07:50.670 --> 00:07:51.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: connection.
00:07:52.070 --> 00:07:53.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And presence is.
00:07:55.140 --> 00:07:56.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In this world.
00:07:57.640 --> 00:08:01.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How being with… the people.
00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:04.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who are in the same room with us.
00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:09.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's priceless.
00:08:10.200 --> 00:08:11.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can be uncomfortable.
00:08:12.140 --> 00:08:16.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can be not what we want, and yes, I speak from experience.
00:08:19.550 --> 00:08:23.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it's the human experience. It's what we're here for.
00:08:29.010 --> 00:08:33.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've many times have gone to a restaurant.
00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:38.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: with my wife or a friend, and I look around, and I see the young people there.
00:08:38.669 --> 00:08:44.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And there'll be two young people having a meal together, and they're both on their phones, texting away.
00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:57.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I just wonder, like, the whole point of eating a meal together is to be with each other, is to communicate, is to have that presence.
00:08:58.770 --> 00:09:00.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: with each other.
00:09:01.090 --> 00:09:05.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that when… We're on our phones.
00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:09.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We're kind of missing the whole point.
00:09:11.350 --> 00:09:18.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… It just… Fascinates me.
00:09:25.110 --> 00:09:30.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we can be so… disconnected.
00:09:32.510 --> 00:09:35.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: From the people who are right in front of us.
00:09:41.790 --> 00:09:46.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, and, and that… You know, give them our attention.
00:09:49.500 --> 00:09:50.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Not give them…
00:09:54.190 --> 00:09:55.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Not give,
00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:07.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, give them the… the honor.
00:10:07.610 --> 00:10:09.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Not give them the respect.
00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of giving them our attention.
00:10:16.790 --> 00:10:22.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… I'm sure you've all experienced it yourselves. I'm sure…
00:10:22.490 --> 00:10:26.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You've had the experience of, you're with someone.
00:10:27.140 --> 00:10:36.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And something happens, they get buzzed, and in the middle of the conversation, they gotta look at their phone, and then they're replying to some text or email.
00:10:37.390 --> 00:10:39.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or direct message.
00:10:40.280 --> 00:10:42.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And suddenly, they're gone.
00:10:42.930 --> 00:10:47.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You're in the middle of the conversation with them, and suddenly they're not there.
00:10:50.070 --> 00:10:51.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How do you feel?
00:10:51.800 --> 00:11:00.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when that happens, how do you… How do you deal with… the… the…
00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:05.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How do you deal with the lack Presence.
00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:11.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: with the person Who's right there, in the room with you.
00:11:12.930 --> 00:11:14.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It doesn't feel good.
00:11:14.760 --> 00:11:16.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We are in the middle of…
00:11:17.930 --> 00:11:24.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A conversation, and their phone or some piece of technology takes them out of presence.
00:11:26.380 --> 00:11:29.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that's why we feel disconnected with people.
00:11:29.470 --> 00:11:35.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's why we hide behind our screams, we… Backup.
00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:40.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that connection with a human being suddenly evaporates.
00:11:42.430 --> 00:11:45.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so, as much as this blog post
00:11:46.110 --> 00:11:52.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is a call to myself to remind me to be more present with the person I'm in the room with.
00:11:53.260 --> 00:12:04.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is also… a… It is also me casting a stone into the… into the lake.
00:12:05.270 --> 00:12:08.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that I hope the… ripples.
00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:10.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That someone can hear it.
00:12:11.550 --> 00:12:15.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that… Someone out there.
00:12:17.170 --> 00:12:23.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can self-reflect, and notice themselves, and maybe notice how they
00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:29.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Are not as present to the people in the room with them as they could be.
00:12:30.790 --> 00:12:35.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… That is my blog post. It is entitled.
00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:41.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Real presence is the only answer to feeling disconnected.
00:12:42.020 --> 00:12:56.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, of course, you can always find my blog on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com, as well as on the station's website at TalkRadio.nyc slash blog.
00:12:57.160 --> 00:13:09.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright, now, it is my pleasure to welcome to the show Jeff Abraham, CEO of Promiscent, a sexual wellness company he has led for more than a decade.
00:13:09.890 --> 00:13:28.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But Jeff's story is not really a product story. It is the story of what happens when someone chooses to run a business by a different set of rules, where loyalty, integrity, and honoring the people who came before as treated as non-negotiable, not optional.
00:13:29.110 --> 00:13:42.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: After discovering a groundbreaking treatment developed by urologist Dr. Ronald Gilbert, Jeff invested in the product, becoming the majority owner, and launched what became the company's flagship offering.
00:13:42.310 --> 00:13:58.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Since 2013, he has built it into a full-spectrum wellness company with more than 5 million bottles sold and over 4,000 healthcare professionals recommending the brand. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Jeff.
00:13:58.570 --> 00:13:59.920 Jeff Abraham: My pleasure to be here.
00:14:00.410 --> 00:14:03.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright, glad you made it, glad you made it.
00:14:03.370 --> 00:14:04.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So,
00:14:05.650 --> 00:14:16.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know, this show is… and the reason why I wanted to bring you on after we met… was…
00:14:18.150 --> 00:14:34.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not so much the story around the company and the product, but how you run the company, how you developed it, how you brought it forward. So, if you could, just give us a… you know, I gave a little bit background, but give us, like, how…
00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:45.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This company came about, why you stepped into the leadership position, and how you're running the company that's different from how most people run a company.
00:14:46.760 --> 00:14:49.710 Jeff Abraham: We were founded by a urologist.
00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:55.489 Jeff Abraham: So, the company had its roots in science, and.
00:14:56.020 --> 00:15:03.469 Jeff Abraham: In fact, a physician who was very unique, who didn't put profitability and,
00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:08.320 Jeff Abraham: money is his sole focus. His focus was he was a healer. He was a doctor.
00:15:09.130 --> 00:15:20.179 Jeff Abraham: on helping people. He happened to be, lived near me, he was my doctor, he was my friend, we hung out socially. And one day, when he told me that he had started this endeavor.
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:30.679 Jeff Abraham: and asked you for my help. I said, sure, I'd be interested, and it was fascinating, because I had just sold my business. I owned a semiconductor engineering business. You can't have
00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:33.690 Jeff Abraham: A more circuitous route to being the…
00:15:34.350 --> 00:15:49.349 Jeff Abraham: CEO of a sexual wellness company, then running a semiconductor engineering business. But it was intriguing, and it was something different, and I had retired, and I didn't realize that I wasn't that interesting until I retired, because I raised my son as a single father, and had this business that I grew
00:15:49.780 --> 00:15:58.120 Jeff Abraham: from nothing until something very substantive, and it literally took up 24-7, you know? You know.
00:15:58.230 --> 00:16:08.549 Jeff Abraham: 365 days a year, and all of a sudden, my son left for college, and I retired, and I went, how am I going to fill all day, every day? And so, I started helping Ron out.
00:16:08.950 --> 00:16:20.560 Jeff Abraham: one thing led to another, and I wrote them a business plan, and they thought it was very, very, unique and genius, and I said, that's because you guys are doctors, and I'm a business.
00:16:20.560 --> 00:16:21.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is weird.
00:16:21.280 --> 00:16:31.289 Jeff Abraham: what I do. You guys invent products, let me do the marketing and run the business. And it came to a point where they actually asked me to take over the company, I agreed.
00:16:31.290 --> 00:16:31.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:35.649 Jeff Abraham: And to be quite honest with you, I never looked back. I enjoyed it.
00:16:35.800 --> 00:16:37.290 Jeff Abraham: And,
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:45.469 Jeff Abraham: certainly when Ron was alive and he was there, I ran things in his image as this healer, as the physician.
00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:53.830 Jeff Abraham: Unfortunately, Ron was murdered, in a case of mistaken identity. Very early on, in 2013, I had taken over in 2011.
00:16:53.830 --> 00:16:54.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so…
00:16:54.950 --> 00:17:00.140 Jeff Abraham: the story has kind of a tragic component to it, and I almost moved, and…
00:17:00.290 --> 00:17:09.049 Jeff Abraham: moved on and just said, I don't want to do this anymore, because part of the reason for doing it was helping run. And, you know, it's one of those things…
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:21.600 Jeff Abraham: that when you really sit back and you think about something, and you go, what can I do? I realized, I'm not God, I can't bring Him back. He was murdered, and it was tragic, and it was mistaken identity, it was crazy.
00:17:21.730 --> 00:17:22.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Whoa.
00:17:22.460 --> 00:17:24.810 Jeff Abraham: I realized the only thing in my power
00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:36.019 Jeff Abraham: was to give him a legacy, to make sure this company had legs and people remembered it and honored him, and to provide for his family. His wife and his two sons were very dear to me. They were wonderful people.
00:17:36.130 --> 00:17:51.670 Jeff Abraham: And I thought, the only thing in my power are those two things, and I'd like to be able to do that for him. I really would. So I did. And fortunately, it went really, really well. And I was very happy to do it.
00:17:51.750 --> 00:18:03.299 Jeff Abraham: And… but we've never strayed. We've never wavered. Every employee during the interview process, and all of our employees know the history of the company. Ron.
00:18:03.300 --> 00:18:03.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:04.630 Jeff Abraham: Matt.
00:18:04.730 --> 00:18:20.499 Jeff Abraham: how we're founded. We don't put profitability first. We really believe that our job is to help people, is to make people's lives better, is to lead through science, and to make sure that we build on that trust.
00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:30.030 Jeff Abraham: We're very successful now. We have a number of products. Our hero product, and still our best product and our leading product, is the spray to allow men to last a lot longer in bed.
00:18:30.130 --> 00:18:30.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:46.800 Jeff Abraham: now everywhere. It's in Walmart, it's in CVS, it's in Target, it's in Wegmans, it's in Meijer, it's in H-E-B. Next spring, we launch in Walgreens, so we'll be everywhere. And I realized early on.
00:18:47.210 --> 00:19:01.889 Jeff Abraham: that we had this devoted following. We've sold over 5 million bottles now, if you can believe that. And we started off as a small, underfunded little company that just grew and became very successful and very profitable, but by doing things the right way.
00:19:01.890 --> 00:19:09.640 Jeff Abraham: Our goal isn't to have 10 trillion people to try it, and get everyone to try it once, and make a lot of money, and no one comes back because it doesn't work.
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:22.299 Jeff Abraham: Our goal has been to have a product that works, and very slowly get integrated and have people try it, like it, and not only come back and continue to use it, but tell their friends about it. Hey, you want better intimacy? This really helps.
00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:29.739 Jeff Abraham: Then we've now launched other products because of the success. People trust us, and
00:19:30.030 --> 00:19:44.999 Jeff Abraham: you know, when I first launched some lubes, it made sense, you know, like, if you're lasting 12 seconds, you don't really need a lube. All of a sudden, you're lasting 10 minutes, you go, hey, I might need some additional products. So that makes sense. Then we start branching out into some supplements, which
00:19:45.040 --> 00:19:54.780 Jeff Abraham: increase blood flow, give you better just overall vitality, and people said, well, that's a reach, you know, I'm not sure you're not known for that. I said, let me tell you something, we have a trusted base of people.
00:19:55.690 --> 00:19:58.579 Jeff Abraham: Buy our products, and that took off immediately.
00:19:58.580 --> 00:19:59.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then…
00:19:59.560 --> 00:20:18.250 Jeff Abraham: I said… and I talked to my customers. That's one of the things that Ron always did to his patients. So we reach out, and we talk, and a lot of them, it became the fastest growing segment in sexual wellness for vibrators, both men's and women's masturbatory products. So we introduced some custom vibrators, and
00:20:18.600 --> 00:20:31.070 Jeff Abraham: I remember people go, oh, no, that's really a stretch. Those are electronic devices, that's not what you're known for. I said, I don't think you get it. We're known for delivering quality, cost-effective products that work, okay?
00:20:31.070 --> 00:20:43.410 Jeff Abraham: Our people are obviously sexual… sexually active. If they're buying testosterone booster, if they're buying delay spray, if they're buying nitric oxide supplements to increase blood flow, they're obviously having intimacy.
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.450 Jeff Abraham: Those products took off, just like everything else.
00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:57.899 Jeff Abraham: And it's interesting, because I send an email out to the first 100 people that buy whatever new product that we introduce, and it's almost like the same person writes everyone with just slightly different wording.
00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:11.879 Jeff Abraham: Because it's something along the lines of, I love your delay spray, I love your organic aloe vera lube, and I knew if it was on this site that it was quality, and you would stand behind it 100%, because we have a 30-day money-back guarantee on every product.
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:12.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:21:12.770 --> 00:21:14.860 Jeff Abraham: And that gives me…
00:21:14.970 --> 00:21:33.390 Jeff Abraham: a lot of satisfaction. It gives me a lot of pride, because we have that reputation of doing things differently. And as you stated in the intro, we have over 4,000 doctors that recommend our products. And the reason that we know that for a fact, the only way to get on that list, if someone buys the product.
00:21:33.560 --> 00:21:38.270 Jeff Abraham: And we have something called ZigPoll, which only 4% of people now fill out, okay?
00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:39.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's just…
00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:40.530 Jeff Abraham: How'd you find us?
00:21:40.670 --> 00:21:48.850 Jeff Abraham: And it'll say, Doctor, Dr. Mohik Kira, Baylor University, who happens to be the president of the Sexual Medicine Society of North America, is a huge proponent of ours.
00:21:49.190 --> 00:22:07.629 Jeff Abraham: Dr. Wayne Hellstrom, the president of the International Society of Sexual Medicine, same thing. So the only way to get on that list, if someone buying our product names you, okay, we're not, well, this guy told us that he recommended us. The only way to get included on that list is to have someone buy a product and say, this doctor told me. So…
00:22:07.630 --> 00:22:12.940 Jeff Abraham: I think we actually have 3,300 urologists and about 700 sexual therapists that.
00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:13.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm…
00:22:13.610 --> 00:22:29.770 Jeff Abraham: On record, we know that someone bought our product and said, this physician recommended you. We take extreme pride in that. I mean, I can't tell you that, because there's no other products out there that has more than 10, let alone 4,000, and that's.
00:22:29.770 --> 00:22:30.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because…
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:33.579 Jeff Abraham: clinical trials. We spent 3 quarters of a million dollars doing
00:22:33.990 --> 00:22:38.890 Jeff Abraham: clinical trials, and they're IRB certified and statistically significant. They're legitimate.
00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:45.610 Jeff Abraham: Clinical trials, they were done at University of Kentucky Sexual Wellness Center by Dr. Kristen Mark, and it was authored by Ian Kerner.
00:22:45.630 --> 00:23:04.210 Jeff Abraham: And that worked out really, really well. It put us on the map, because a lot of therapists, a lot of urologists, they'll take anecdotal evidence. The customers say it works, and believe it or not, and I firmly believe this now, I believe a lot of urologists, even some therapists, get into sexual wellness because they want to improve their own sex lives, because
00:23:04.590 --> 00:23:11.050 Jeff Abraham: They… I swear to you, I can't tell you how many times… you know, before, I had a semiconductor engineering business. I'm not familiar with medicine, so…
00:23:11.050 --> 00:23:11.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: room.
00:23:11.590 --> 00:23:15.349 Jeff Abraham: first got into this, you know, would be at one of the trade shows. We just got back from.
00:23:15.350 --> 00:23:19.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Let me ask you a question, because this isn't your first business.
00:23:19.020 --> 00:23:19.710 Jeff Abraham: No.
00:23:20.050 --> 00:23:33.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But the way you run the business is what I want to focus on, is relatively unique. Is this something that you learned in your prior business, or was this something that just evolved from getting involved with this business?
00:23:34.210 --> 00:23:34.840 Jeff Abraham: it…
00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:42.019 Jeff Abraham: basically was the way I ran my last business as well, but most importantly, it's the way that I conduct my life.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:43.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:57.049 Jeff Abraham: I… I don't know… your listeners obviously don't know me, have no background on me. I was born into a definitely lower-middle-class family. We were poor, to be quite frank with you. And I remember growing up.
00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:00.510 Jeff Abraham: I was very aware that we didn't have a lot of money.
00:24:00.650 --> 00:24:07.930 Jeff Abraham: But I was also very aware that I was loved, and I was also very aware that I had excellent guidance from both my mom and dad, who adored me.
00:24:07.930 --> 00:24:09.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And…
00:24:10.030 --> 00:24:26.930 Jeff Abraham: A lot of young boys, when they're young, especially 8, 10, 12 years old, they dream about being on the cover of Sports Illustrated, scoring a touchdown in the Super Bowl. They dream about winning the NBA Finals, they dream about being on People's Magazine's Sexiest Man of the Year, they dream about being a movie star.
00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:42.290 Jeff Abraham: I was a reasonable athlete, but certainly not gonna make my living at it, so I never had that fantasy about being on the cover of Sports Illustrated. I looked in the mirror and went, I don't think modeling and being, you know, People Magazine is in my future. I wanted to be a businessman from the time that I was young.
00:24:42.290 --> 00:24:56.090 Jeff Abraham: And the way that I envisioned things as… because I worked for regular companies for about 8 to 10 years to learn and get everything down before I started my own business. And it became very obvious to me
00:24:56.170 --> 00:25:11.450 Jeff Abraham: that it's very, very unique that you'll have a problem… a product that is so breakthrough that it's just head and shoulders above everything else. There's always generally a couple choices. But people do business with people they trust.
00:25:11.560 --> 00:25:26.560 Jeff Abraham: And they like it, okay? So, you have to be ethical, you have to be a person of your word, a man or woman of your word. If you make a promise, you keep it, okay? And you don't make promises without having intention of keeping those promises.
00:25:26.580 --> 00:25:39.189 Jeff Abraham: And it became obvious to me that at the end of the day, when people have a choice to make on what business or service or person they're going to do business with, you have to be technically competent, so the products have to meet.
00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:42.480 Jeff Abraham: the technical need. They have to do what they're expected to do.
00:25:42.580 --> 00:25:48.779 Jeff Abraham: And then you have to be ethical, they have to trust you. They… if they don't trust you, they're not going to do business with you.
00:25:48.850 --> 00:25:57.979 Jeff Abraham: Then it comes down that maybe there's two different choices, where we trust you, you have a good product, and then it comes down to
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:16.260 Jeff Abraham: who can I count on? Who do I like? Who do I enjoy being around? So, I tell all my employees, you know, that it's very important that we're, you know, very responsive, that we're ethical, we do things the right way, and people feel valued. People really feel like their happiness
00:26:16.330 --> 00:26:23.669 Jeff Abraham: is important to us, and their satisfaction with our product is important to us. That's why we have the guarantees we have.
00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:40.279 Jeff Abraham: So, we go that extra mile, and we are really, really successful now. We're one of the fastest growing companies in this space, and we just got back from a show called Stimulate in Nashville, and people kept coming up to the booth. All my employees kept telling me. People come up and go, what's your secret?
00:26:40.280 --> 00:26:49.410 Jeff Abraham: What do you mean, what's our secret? The whole category's down right now, you know, the blah blah blah, and you guys are up and thriving and growing, and…
00:26:49.590 --> 00:26:52.730 Jeff Abraham: We just have this buzz, we just have this juice.
00:26:52.730 --> 00:26:53.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:26:53.280 --> 00:27:04.349 Jeff Abraham: And it's because of who we are and what we do. People have asked me, how many new products are you going to introduce this year? And it's funny, I say somewhere between 0 and 6. And they're like, what?
00:27:05.010 --> 00:27:22.609 Jeff Abraham: I said, somewhere between 0 and 6. I go, shouldn't you have a goal of, like, 3 or 4? I said, no. Let me tell you my criteria for introducing a new product. If we introduce a new product, we have to identify the need, the product area, and we have to develop a product that's at least as good, if not better, than everything else in that space.
00:27:22.750 --> 00:27:41.299 Jeff Abraham: If the first time we put up a meh product that people go, not as good, we lose that ability that we have now, it's inherent in the brand. If it's on our site, people automatically order it. If they go, I'm using this from someone else, why not get it here? I'm getting my lubes, I'm getting my vibrators, I'm getting my delay spray, I'm getting my female arousal gels here.
00:27:41.330 --> 00:27:50.459 Jeff Abraham: I'm gonna buy this here as well, because I know it's as good. So I tell people, the first time we introduce a product that doesn't meet those standards, we lose that trust, and we're never.
00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:51.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Nevermore.
00:27:51.170 --> 00:27:57.920 Jeff Abraham: set trust. So when I say between 0 and 6, because we don't have the bandwidth to introduce more than 6 products in a year, we're not that big of a company.
00:27:58.030 --> 00:28:06.520 Jeff Abraham: If I don't find a product that literally is as good, if not better, than everything else in the category, it'll be zero. We're not going to introduce any.
00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:07.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: need to.
00:28:07.710 --> 00:28:22.309 Jeff Abraham: run-of-the-mill products. So, it's important to us that we maintain that standard. That's why I say between 0 and 6. I'd love to find 6 every year, but that's not possible. So, when we find a product or develop a product that fits that criteria, we will introduce it.
00:28:22.310 --> 00:28:29.769 Jeff Abraham: If we don't, we will stick with exactly what we have and grow organically. We grow every year, and we'll grow organically.
00:28:29.790 --> 00:28:36.640 Jeff Abraham: Because our growth will come from, like, last year we got into CVS, we got into Meijer, we got into, Wegmans.
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So getting more distribution.
00:28:38.690 --> 00:28:51.540 Jeff Abraham: We're getting more distribution, and our website is robust. We're the number one best-selling sexual enhancement product on Amazon, which we're very proud of. So, we're not a one-legged stool. We have our own website, our own distribution.
00:28:51.540 --> 00:29:06.180 Jeff Abraham: We have the online presence with Amazon. We have the retail distribution, which we're very proud of. And, we're starting… we never made a push, but just recently, we've been very fortunate because we're starting to get a lot of business in the adult
00:29:06.340 --> 00:29:23.840 Jeff Abraham: stores now, because I never made that a priority, but there's a lot of people… adult stores are no longer in the back alleys, they're no longer something… they're in… some of them are very upscale, and they're in really, really nice areas. And, people…
00:29:23.930 --> 00:29:43.069 Jeff Abraham: are much more open about visiting adult stores now. And so, there's a couple, London Boutique in New York City, and Playtime Boutique, and some of these, that discovered us on their own, start buying the product, and we start really doing well. And so, I said, hey, why don't we make a push? So, we just got into Adam and Eve, which we're very proud of.
00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:50.890 Jeff Abraham: Huge chain. So, that's another area of growth for us now, that we're getting integrated
00:29:50.890 --> 00:30:07.410 Jeff Abraham: into the adult channel. So, we would like to add new products to help facilitate the growth that we're hoping for and anticipating, but that's not the only way. By getting new channels of distribution, is another way that we feel that there's a lot of growth.
00:30:07.470 --> 00:30:07.980 Jeff Abraham: Okay.
00:30:08.010 --> 00:30:11.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Let's take a pause here, I gotta take a quick break.
00:30:11.210 --> 00:30:34.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay. When we come back, I just… I really want to highlight sort of the difference between you run the company and the way most companies are run, and sort of what you've also learned in the process of running the company in this fashion, that it's something where you've grown yourself in the process of running the company this way, so I'd like to talk about that a little bit.
00:30:34.890 --> 00:30:35.480 Jeff Abraham: Perfect.
00:30:35.620 --> 00:30:54.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So, everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. We do this every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on TalkRadio.NYC, and all over social media, and we'll be right back with our guest, Jeff Abraham, in just a moment.
00:32:08.790 --> 00:32:25.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome back to the Conscious Consultant Hour Awakening Humanity. We're speaking this hour with Jeff Abraham, CEO of Promiscent, a sexual wellness company. But, you know, this show isn't really about
00:32:26.030 --> 00:32:33.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the products. It's about the unique way in which Jeff runs the company, which is why I wanted to bring him on.
00:32:33.540 --> 00:32:40.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Jeff, I wanted to ask you, you know.
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:51.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You've talked a lot about being focused on quality, on integrity, on putting out a quality product that you can stand behind.
00:32:51.530 --> 00:32:54.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And these are principles that we know work.
00:32:54.750 --> 00:33:17.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But why do you think so many business people don't do it? There are many CEOs out there that all they're trying to do is increase… is maximize shareholder profitability, make more money, you know, keep driving the stock price up, but you're taking such a different approach. I'm just wondering.
00:33:17.850 --> 00:33:25.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, why do you think there's this disconnect, and why most people don't have this kind of,
00:33:25.860 --> 00:33:28.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of an ethos around what they do.
00:33:29.230 --> 00:33:36.440 Jeff Abraham: I think it's very simple. I have a controlling interest in this company. So… between my…
00:33:36.570 --> 00:33:48.680 Jeff Abraham: sizable investment, and then really not taking a salary and just working and growing the company, the value of the company has skyrocketed, so I've been rewarded with more additional equity. So…
00:33:49.080 --> 00:34:06.470 Jeff Abraham: even though I run everything all by our shareholders, we pay quarterly dividends, and I don't make any decisions without letting everyone be totally involved, and at the end of the day, I own over 50% of the company, so I don't have pressure like a lot of people have. That, oh my god, we gotta return this. Now, we have made
00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:18.680 Jeff Abraham: great returns, because we don't worry about the next quarter. We don't even worry about the next year. We worry about the next decade. How are we positioning ourselves? How are we going to grow?
00:34:18.850 --> 00:34:27.880 Jeff Abraham: And I will take a step sideways to take two steps forward. A lot of people have the pressure of a board, and have pressure of.
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:44.039 Jeff Abraham: all their shareholders, in fact, some cases, they might be a minority shareholder in, you know, their hedge funds that own a majority, and they give them the directive, you will make this kind of return this quarter. We need it for the stock price, we need it for our portfolio value, whatever.
00:34:44.739 --> 00:34:57.220 Jeff Abraham: I don't have that kind of pressure. I really feel all my investors have gotten more than their money back well into that already. They still have their equity staked, they're getting dividends, and they trust me.
00:34:57.290 --> 00:35:12.070 Jeff Abraham: And they know that this company is doing gangbusters in every respect, both in growth and in profitability and everything else, and it's because the people that support us, that buy our products, love us.
00:35:12.160 --> 00:35:20.859 Jeff Abraham: And we have insane repeat business, we really do. And it's because the products work, and people trust them, they believe in them.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.590 Jeff Abraham: Another thing that's been…
00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:38.339 Jeff Abraham: fortuitous and allowed us to really not have some of the pressure and stress that a lot of companies have. We don't have huge customer acquisition costs. You know, you read about where people go, because so many people refer us to their friends and family members and all that kind of.
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:39.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh…
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:43.789 Jeff Abraham: So, we're very fortunate. Without Ron's brilliance, without
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:59.569 Jeff Abraham: that initial product that was so effective, we might not have… now, I wouldn't run the company if I had to run it any other way, because I retired. I'm not doing this for money, I'm very comfortable. I'm doing this to honor someone who was…
00:36:00.040 --> 00:36:03.840 Jeff Abraham: a mensch. He was just one of the… most.
00:36:04.070 --> 00:36:18.329 Jeff Abraham: humble, decent human beings I've ever met, and I have a mission, and the mission is to honor him, and to let people know what a great man Rowan Gilbert was, and what a quality human being he was, but at the same time, to provide
00:36:18.470 --> 00:36:23.759 Jeff Abraham: For not only his family, but our shareholders, the majority of whom knew him.
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:24.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And…
00:36:25.080 --> 00:36:31.679 Jeff Abraham: Believe it or not, we had to raise money to do our clinical trials, that's why we have shareholders.
00:36:31.780 --> 00:36:37.020 Jeff Abraham: And we never had to hire a company and go out and do this prospectus and, you know.
00:36:37.520 --> 00:36:46.179 Jeff Abraham: I literally started calling urologists that had been familiar with us and were a product, and so our investors were all urologists at No Run.
00:36:46.570 --> 00:36:53.399 Jeff Abraham: And, so… There's quite a few of us that realize what this is all about.
00:36:53.630 --> 00:36:57.590 Jeff Abraham: That it's almost a higher calling. It's almost like…
00:36:57.980 --> 00:37:03.669 Jeff Abraham: It's funny, money was never the singular objective his, which it is in most companies.
00:37:04.650 --> 00:37:10.459 Jeff Abraham: But by not making it our singular focus, I think that's what's responsible for our success, is…
00:37:10.460 --> 00:37:10.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:37:10.970 --> 00:37:20.849 Jeff Abraham: Not literally worrying the first year. We got a return 20%. My investors saw nothing for the first 5 years. And I made that really clear to everyone.
00:37:20.860 --> 00:37:40.310 Jeff Abraham: I said, you're not going… the whole play here was going to be building equity in this company and brand, and hopefully would get acquired in 5 to 6 years, and that's when you'll see a return on your investment. So the plan was never to pay dividends, but then we started growing, and we started becoming profitable, so I started
00:37:40.310 --> 00:37:43.190 Jeff Abraham: paying off these dividends, you know? And…
00:37:43.190 --> 00:37:51.990 Jeff Abraham: Here we are now, and, you know, we would certainly one day like to be acquired by a nice big company, could take this to the next level, and the level above that.
00:37:52.360 --> 00:38:06.329 Jeff Abraham: But that day is not here right now, we're still growing, and I want to get to that next level before we do that. But it's almost like by taking the focus away from quarterly dividends and immediate profitability.
00:38:06.490 --> 00:38:14.500 Jeff Abraham: for that first 5 years, it set us on a path to extreme profitability, and to, by shunning
00:38:14.590 --> 00:38:24.289 Jeff Abraham: The… the very things that we now do, and not getting instant gratification in thinking long-term.
00:38:24.340 --> 00:38:38.169 Jeff Abraham: It really set us up for the position we're in right now, which is being the envy of most companies in this space. There are companies that, you know, last year we did 13.4 million, I think. There are companies that did $50 million and broke even.
00:38:38.370 --> 00:38:44.519 Jeff Abraham: And they're here at $13 million, you know, paying out $5 million in dividends to our shareholders.
00:38:44.520 --> 00:38:45.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:38:45.570 --> 00:38:51.570 Jeff Abraham: That's impossible. I go, no, it's possible. That being said, our employees know
00:38:52.240 --> 00:39:05.469 Jeff Abraham: that who we are, who we're honoring, everything we do, our employees are very well compensated, but there's no passengers here. There's… we're not like a robo with two people sitting there, and everyone else is bro-ing them.
00:39:05.470 --> 00:39:06.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right.
00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:16.510 Jeff Abraham: Deadweight. I have news for you. If you're in this company and you're dead weight, you get thrown overboard, okay? You're either producing or you're not. You'll be compensated very well. We have a lot of fun.
00:39:16.640 --> 00:39:32.090 Jeff Abraham: And… but when it's time to do business, and it's time to do business. And there's never anything unsaid. My style is, if I have anything to say, you will never hear it behind your back. Anyone else, I will call you directly and say, please explain that. You know what I mean?
00:39:32.090 --> 00:39:32.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:39:32.630 --> 00:39:34.710 Jeff Abraham: I'm puzzled by that, but…
00:39:35.090 --> 00:39:49.339 Jeff Abraham: We're the type of company that if you make it past a year, you're generally here for the duration, okay? If you wash out, it's gonna be early on, because you're not meeting expectations, and whatever, it's not a good fit. But once you're here.
00:39:49.380 --> 00:40:03.199 Jeff Abraham: You know how we operate, you know what's expected, and most people that work here love working here, because they are well compensated, and they have a chance to earn equity, and they're also in a position that they know
00:40:03.290 --> 00:40:10.819 Jeff Abraham: that… there's something… really going on here that's special, you know? It's a great feeling.
00:40:10.820 --> 00:40:14.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, this is the second company that you've run this way.
00:40:14.530 --> 00:40:15.170 Jeff Abraham: Yes.
00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:23.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what challenges have you had in running this company that were different than the other company?
00:40:23.930 --> 00:40:25.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: different industry for you.
00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:29.549 Jeff Abraham: Yeah, so the first company was a semiconductor engineering business, and.
00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:29.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:41.480 Jeff Abraham: We didn't advertise, we didn't, you know, it was, like, all knowledge gained from being in that industry, and it was a consulting thing where it was just all intellectual property.
00:40:41.940 --> 00:40:55.870 Jeff Abraham: One of the things that I've learned is the world isn't fair in running this company, and big companies are vile and vicious and disgusting, and let me tell you something, I'm just being honest.
00:40:56.350 --> 00:41:03.119 Jeff Abraham: companies like Google, companies like Amazon, companies like Meta.
00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:08.290 Jeff Abraham: are predatory. Absolutely predatory. And they literally…
00:41:08.490 --> 00:41:13.130 Jeff Abraham: Give precedence, and they give special treatment to big.
00:41:13.430 --> 00:41:18.340 Jeff Abraham: Companies with deep pockets that, in some cases, are not ethical, okay?
00:41:18.340 --> 00:41:18.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: America.
00:41:18.830 --> 00:41:19.730 Jeff Abraham: And…
00:41:19.870 --> 00:41:28.770 Jeff Abraham: We get taken down. Oh, this is… they treat us like we're a porn site. We have clinical trials, we have the president of the sexual medicine
00:41:28.770 --> 00:41:39.970 Jeff Abraham: Society of North America on our advisory board. We have the President of the International Society on our advisory board, and our ads constantly get taken down. I mean, it's insane. I'm like.
00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:59.499 Jeff Abraham: this is a study on premature ejaculation. It's a recognized disease state. It… like, are you kidding me? And we deal with that over and over and over again. And the companies that, like Trojan, which is Church and Dwight, the companies like, Rakuten Binkieser, which is, KY and Durex.
00:42:00.130 --> 00:42:03.999 Jeff Abraham: They have similar products, but all they care about is putting
00:42:04.700 --> 00:42:07.779 Jeff Abraham: Substandard products out on the market.
00:42:07.930 --> 00:42:18.370 Jeff Abraham: driving people to retail. They don't sell through their website, they don't care about their customers, they don't correspond with their customers. It's just all about… they use their… it's called channel power, okay?
00:42:18.370 --> 00:42:18.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and…
00:42:18.860 --> 00:42:33.770 Jeff Abraham: Because both of those companies are multi-$18 billion companies. They have cleaning products, they have, you know, dental care products, they have this, they have sexual wellness products. So they, in some cases, in some stores, they have 120 SKUs, you know.
00:42:33.950 --> 00:42:34.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:42:34.420 --> 00:42:40.740 Jeff Abraham: 120 different products. So they go in and basically say, hey, we do a billion dollars a year, put us here, here, and here.
00:42:41.040 --> 00:42:48.109 Jeff Abraham: And they put the products there. None of their products are revolutionary. They're all Me Too products.
00:42:48.110 --> 00:43:06.309 Jeff Abraham: But they have that channel power, so they have a lot of resources for advertising. It's all about driving people to buy products because they become familiar in people's psyche from this constant stream of advertising and this promotional stuff, and they spend…
00:43:06.720 --> 00:43:22.309 Jeff Abraham: hundreds of millions of dollars a year advertising on Meta, and advertising, you know, on Instagram, Facebook, you know, all these different things, and running Google Ads, and they get special treatment, because their budget is hundreds of millions, our budget is a million.
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:23.980 Jeff Abraham: So, we don't get…
00:43:24.370 --> 00:43:40.069 Jeff Abraham: Even though we're kicking their ass, and we're really good, and we're successful, trust me, that's with our hands tied behind our back, in a straitjacket, locked in a trunk. If it was a fair fight, and we didn't have the shackles placed on us that we have.
00:43:40.070 --> 00:43:47.070 Jeff Abraham: Because being a small company, we would wipe their products to compete with us off of the map. We literally wipe them off of the map.
00:43:47.110 --> 00:43:49.579 Jeff Abraham: Right. But… So, I've learned…
00:43:49.960 --> 00:44:07.149 Jeff Abraham: you know, in my last job, I never advertised. It was all intellectual knowledge that I had, and designing an integrated circuit, a computer chip, you don't advertise for that, or put it on, you know, put it in Target. Even when we first broke in, it was so difficult for us to get in retail, because
00:44:07.150 --> 00:44:15.920 Jeff Abraham: these other companies were trying to keep us out. They knew we had a better product. They could tell by our repeat business and how we were doing on Amazon and everything.
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:16.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And…
00:44:16.990 --> 00:44:31.340 Jeff Abraham: So we had to fight extra hard until it was almost like the results were so overwhelming that people were like, oh, I can't deny this, you know, look at this. You know, like, we outsell them on Amazon in a neutral marketplace by 4 to 1.
00:44:31.340 --> 00:44:37.620 Jeff Abraham: But even on Amazon, we would get constantly taken down and have all these issues that were completely bogus.
00:44:37.990 --> 00:44:39.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh…
00:44:39.020 --> 00:44:55.979 Jeff Abraham: We have an Amazon specialist, that's all he does every day, is work on keeping our listings up and running, and making sure… it's… it… if people knew the truth about how those sites operated, it… it would… it curls your hair. It just… you're like, what?
00:44:56.050 --> 00:44:59.669 Jeff Abraham: Like, that's just wrong. It is. It's absolutely wrong.
00:44:59.870 --> 00:45:13.779 Jeff Abraham: You know, you'll say, you can't advertise, you know, sexual wellness products, you can't run sponsored ads, you can't do this, you can't do that. Then we see an exact similar product from one of these bigger companies, and I go, wait a second.
00:45:14.060 --> 00:45:24.400 Jeff Abraham: here is an email that we have in writing saying you can't advertise. How are they… well, they have a special account with us, i.e, they spend a lot more money, so it's…
00:45:24.470 --> 00:45:36.070 Jeff Abraham: You know, it's amazing to me, because, you know, they have that movie that came out, remember Too Big to Fail? About the banking industry and stuff? You get to a certain size, some of these companies are too big to fail.
00:45:36.070 --> 00:45:47.289 Jeff Abraham: They suck, their products aren't even good, but they get such special treatment because they have that size, they're this behemoth, and they have that channel power, and they're not afraid to use it to intimidate.
00:45:47.290 --> 00:45:55.900 Jeff Abraham: and to keep other companies down. And I find that wholly un-American, or what I used to think America stood for, you know what I mean?
00:45:55.900 --> 00:45:58.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah. So, what would you…
00:45:58.510 --> 00:45:59.050 Jeff Abraham: Right.
00:45:59.350 --> 00:46:07.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So if there are small business owners out there listening to this program, what advice would you give them
00:46:07.190 --> 00:46:22.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In going out and competing with someone who's larger than you, given that there's this really unfair advantage that those who are giant, they just inherently have an unfair advantage over you?
00:46:22.160 --> 00:46:28.379 Jeff Abraham: Oh, I would say this, with… unabashedly, without fail, you have to be tenacious. Absolutely.
00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:29.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Lieuten.
00:46:29.640 --> 00:46:34.270 Jeff Abraham: And you can never, ever, ever back off. Ever. Okay?
00:46:34.270 --> 00:46:34.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:39.139 Jeff Abraham: If you just work as hard as they do, you'll get crushed.
00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:45.340 Jeff Abraham: Because they're bigger and stronger, and they… they… no mistake, they will pull levers intentionally designed
00:46:45.650 --> 00:46:55.300 Jeff Abraham: to put you out of business, and to make sure that you don't see the light of day. So you have to outsmart him, you have to outwork them.
00:46:55.410 --> 00:46:59.080 Jeff Abraham: You have to be very nimble, and you can never back down.
00:46:59.310 --> 00:47:04.839 Jeff Abraham: Never. You have to be a pit bull. You have to be tenacious. And I am every bit of that.
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:16.630 Jeff Abraham: And I know what I have, and I know that it works. I know it's the best product out there. I've had 4,000 urologists and therapists say, this is hands down the best things out there. We have clinical trials to prove it. And…
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:31.190 Jeff Abraham: Even with all that being said, if I didn't have that pit bull mentality, if I didn't have that take-no-prisoners approach, I'm going to get to where we need to go. We would not be where we're at right now, even with the best product, and even with everything else.
00:47:32.090 --> 00:47:33.900 Jeff Abraham: It's sad. It really is.
00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:35.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:47:35.750 --> 00:47:51.090 Jeff Abraham: you don't have to acquiesce, and you don't have to knuckle under, you know, and you don't have to feel like, this is a fight I can't win. But I will tell you, you gotta be sharp as a tack, and you have to be unrelenting, and you have to say.
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.140 Jeff Abraham: I will fight to the death.
00:47:54.330 --> 00:48:09.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But, you know, this is your second company. You were retired. You don't have… you're in a position, you don't have to deal with this nonsense. So why do you still get up out of bed each day and give so much?
00:48:09.090 --> 00:48:14.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to this venture. I mean, it's, it's… like you said, you don't need the money.
00:48:14.910 --> 00:48:20.000 Jeff Abraham: I ask myself that very many mornings when I get up, I promise you, okay?
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.680 Jeff Abraham: And I can tell you that a lot of it is Ron Gilbert.
00:48:23.930 --> 00:48:24.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:48:24.810 --> 00:48:31.320 Jeff Abraham: family. I send them dividend checks, and his wife is a very dear friend of mine.
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:37.340 Jeff Abraham: Every single time, you're amazing, I can't… it humbles me. There are times that I choke up, because.
00:48:37.340 --> 00:48:38.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm…
00:48:38.150 --> 00:48:49.010 Jeff Abraham: I'll do anything for them. My shareholders, whenever we send out a shareholder update, we send out… I get so many responses, I can't believe it after all we've been through, and you did, blah blah blah.
00:48:49.010 --> 00:48:49.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wayne.
00:48:49.850 --> 00:48:53.019 Jeff Abraham: And that's what gets me up in the morning. That's what…
00:48:53.170 --> 00:48:57.309 Jeff Abraham: fuels me, you know, is people that I dearly love.
00:48:57.590 --> 00:49:04.640 Jeff Abraham: And I treasure. They believed in me. When we went out and we raised those funds, and we did what we did.
00:49:05.970 --> 00:49:10.659 Jeff Abraham: These people believed in me, and I take that very seriously.
00:49:10.660 --> 00:49:11.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And…
00:49:11.700 --> 00:49:16.619 Jeff Abraham: I think it's a compliment, because I know if I invest in someone, I truly believe in them, and I trust them.
00:49:16.620 --> 00:49:17.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:49:17.510 --> 00:49:23.340 Jeff Abraham: And I, I feel… I feel a certain debt to them.
00:49:23.450 --> 00:49:26.269 Jeff Abraham: And I want to continue this, and…
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:30.840 Jeff Abraham: I know this sounds kind of corny, but… when Ron…
00:49:31.200 --> 00:49:39.250 Jeff Abraham: was murdered, we hadn't been anywhere yet in terms of retail. We were just on our own website, and we hadn't even started on Amazon yet.
00:49:39.490 --> 00:49:44.740 Jeff Abraham: And I remember we went to lunch one day at this place called Market Broidler in Huntington Beach. We both lived there.
00:49:44.970 --> 00:49:52.470 Jeff Abraham: And there's a Target right next door. We said, let's go look at the Target store, see what they have. And believe it or not, the sexual wellness
00:49:52.670 --> 00:49:58.830 Jeff Abraham: section in Target, all they had was KY lubes, and it was more like a medicinal lube. It really wasn't.
00:49:58.830 --> 00:49:59.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:49:59.500 --> 00:50:10.379 Jeff Abraham: And I'll never forget this, he said to me, you think we'll ever be in here? This was 2013, it was early January. He was murdered on January 27th of 2013. This was about 3 weeks before.
00:50:11.180 --> 00:50:23.260 Jeff Abraham: And I said, I promise you. I promise you, we'll be on this shelf one day. We will be in Target. You really think so? I said, I know so. This product works, and this space is going to evolve.
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:42.939 Jeff Abraham: And in September of, 2016, we launched in Target, and I just happened to be… I was back in Huntington Beach. I now live in Newport and Summerlin, Nevada. I have dual residents, I go back and forth. But I went into the store. The first time I saw that product in Target.
00:50:43.220 --> 00:50:46.139 Jeff Abraham: was in that store. And I walked down the aisle.
00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:53.070 Jeff Abraham: And I got emotional, and I looked, I saw it there. And out loud, don't ask me why.
00:50:53.290 --> 00:51:10.929 Jeff Abraham: But out loud, I said, I told you. I told you that I would get us here. And it meant something to me. It really did. And I laughed, because I think to myself, no, there were probably people that day that were shopping in that aisle, went home and said, there was some crazy dude talking.
00:51:12.190 --> 00:51:14.309 Jeff Abraham: all the space, you know what I mean?
00:51:14.890 --> 00:51:19.149 Jeff Abraham: I… Every time we launch in a new store.
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:29.829 Jeff Abraham: I think of him, and I think… now, you know, we're in Target, we're in Walmart, we're in CVS, we're here, we're there, you know? And…
00:51:30.010 --> 00:51:35.039 Jeff Abraham: It's funny, we moved into this new building 4 years ago.
00:51:35.300 --> 00:51:54.160 Jeff Abraham: And, you know, I'm the CEO, so I run the company, and I'm not as involved in shipping, distribution, and so we needed more space. We moved into this 8,000 square foot corporate warehouse with 6,000 square feet of, you know, warehouse space. And I'll never forget this.
00:51:54.330 --> 00:51:57.049 Jeff Abraham: I went and I said, we have a forklift?
00:51:57.210 --> 00:52:11.529 Jeff Abraham: And they go, yeah, how do you think we get all this stuff off of the, you know, the income? Because when Ron passed, we had a big shelf in his office that had, like, 800 bottles of promescent, and then we would ship them there, you know?
00:52:11.530 --> 00:52:20.479 Jeff Abraham: And all of us, because the company was doing $80,000 a year in business then, it's now up to $13 million. This year, we're going to be close to $15 million. And…
00:52:20.550 --> 00:52:22.080 Jeff Abraham: I literally…
00:52:22.290 --> 00:52:36.919 Jeff Abraham: was so shocked that we had a forklift, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, anyone could go buy a forklift, that doesn't mean you're successful, but the fact that we had grown to the point we had a forklift, and here comes this giant tractor trailer, and we're unloading pallets of this product, you know?
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:42.190 Jeff Abraham: was just… amazing to me. Wow. And I thought of him.
00:52:42.490 --> 00:52:54.310 Jeff Abraham: what would he think if he could see a giant forklift in this huge building with a promiscence sign on it, 8,000 square feet in Summerlin, Nevada, you know?
00:52:55.130 --> 00:52:56.789 Jeff Abraham: And it, it meant something.
00:52:57.190 --> 00:53:00.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We just got a couple of minutes left. I'm curious.
00:53:01.050 --> 00:53:04.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What do you see for the future?
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:07.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of business in general, like.
00:53:07.450 --> 00:53:25.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, now AI is all over the place, technology is what's hot right now. You know, a company in this sexual wellness space is not like, you know, what people are thinking about. Where do you see the future of your business and business in general going in the next few years?
00:53:27.170 --> 00:53:33.109 Jeff Abraham: I hate to say this, but it's going to be harder and harder and harder to have startups as we move forward for the.
00:53:33.110 --> 00:53:33.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh…
00:53:33.950 --> 00:53:40.680 Jeff Abraham: as we already mentioned about the bigger companies, and they obviously are on the forefront of AI, and the
00:53:41.080 --> 00:53:54.719 Jeff Abraham: companies have bigger budgets, and AI companies, make no mistake about it, are going to fall into the same trap that Google and Amazon and Meta fall into, is, hey, these guys are paying us big bucks, we're going
00:53:54.720 --> 00:54:02.370 Jeff Abraham: To, you know, we know where our bread is buttered, and we're going to… so, they are going to go to the first
00:54:03.270 --> 00:54:12.199 Jeff Abraham: part of the line when it comes to AI recognition and AI searches. They have the resources, and that's gonna further
00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:32.520 Jeff Abraham: reward behemoth big companies and make it much more difficult for smaller companies to get that space, just like it's very difficult for us in SEO. Like, right now, it's very difficult for us to come up first in search in Google search, for Promescent, or our own brand!
00:54:32.950 --> 00:54:33.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and…
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:37.550 Jeff Abraham: Is given such preference in everything.
00:54:37.860 --> 00:54:39.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm. Everything.
00:54:39.640 --> 00:54:42.359 Jeff Abraham: Amazon is predatory. They're predatory.
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:43.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm, yeah.
00:54:43.700 --> 00:54:51.099 Jeff Abraham: They literally… Amazon will literally buy the word promiset, the search term, promesset.
00:54:51.100 --> 00:54:51.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:54:51.590 --> 00:55:08.260 Jeff Abraham: But when people search Promescent, they want them to buy it on Amazon than from us. So, people listening to this podcast, if they go… and this, to me, is fundamentally wrong. It's just wrong, okay? Someone hears me through our efforts, and they go, oh, I want to go to Promescent.com and buy this product.
00:55:08.500 --> 00:55:13.190 Jeff Abraham: they have to wade through Amazon, in some cases, before they find us, because…
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:27.620 Jeff Abraham: at the front of the list. I understand they have a marketplace, I understand they have same-day delivery, you know, blah, blah, blah, but you can't get to the point where they become more searchable than we are for our own products.
00:55:27.620 --> 00:55:30.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Product, yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
00:55:30.070 --> 00:55:33.680 Jeff Abraham: They want everything to go through Amazon.
00:55:33.680 --> 00:55:34.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Everything. Really?
00:55:34.460 --> 00:55:54.419 Jeff Abraham: I have neighbors in both residences here in Newport and in Summerlin. I swear to God, every other day, I see a Prime box, a giant box, on their front porch. They get their toothpaste, their shampoo, their… every single thing is from Amazon. I don't know if people understand, you're probably in your 50s.
00:55:54.990 --> 00:55:56.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm in my 60s.
00:55:56.390 --> 00:55:58.550 Jeff Abraham: Okay, so you're close to my age.
00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:09.080 Jeff Abraham: Do you remember growing up where a friend of yours, their parents were managers at, you know, hardware stores, and were managers at Macy's and Bloomingdale's and, you know.
00:56:09.710 --> 00:56:21.670 Jeff Abraham: That whole segment has gone away. Malls are a ghost town now, okay? Strip malls, everything. We've lost a whole strata of businesses and jobs for people.
00:56:21.670 --> 00:56:32.280 Jeff Abraham: that were based in retail. And it's happening not just in retail, restaurants are now having difficulties making a go of it, because instead of people going there and eat, everyone has
00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:37.659 Jeff Abraham: you know, Uber Eats and DoorDash and Grubhub, and they don't understand
00:56:37.740 --> 00:56:47.820 Jeff Abraham: you pay more, and the restaurant gets less. So, if you go to True Foods Kitchen, and you buy a grass-fed burger for $19.95, you're eating it there, you go to Grubhub.
00:56:47.820 --> 00:57:00.469 Jeff Abraham: and you pay $2.9… or $22.95, they mark it up to you $3, and they give them less. They make that whole capture, that whole thing. And so restaurants are being… restaurants are being squeezed.
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright, Jeff, unfortunately, we're gonna have to leave it there.
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:04.700 Jeff Abraham: Yes.
00:57:04.700 --> 00:57:17.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I do have to close out the show, but I really want to thank you for taking the time to come on the show. We'll have the link to, directly to your website in our show notes.
00:57:17.610 --> 00:57:33.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And really, I really honor you the way you run the business, the integrity with which you do it, and with the standards and the values with which you instill into the company. So, thank you so much.
00:57:33.570 --> 00:57:38.049 Jeff Abraham: It's my pleasure. That was… that's that way because of Ron Gilbert. That's…
00:57:38.050 --> 00:57:38.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:57:38.600 --> 00:57:48.620 Jeff Abraham: That's my man, that's my mentor. I think everyone needs to know who he was and how he lived, and I'm gonna honor him by running this business in a fashion he'd be proud of.
00:57:48.920 --> 00:58:07.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show, and if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on TalkRadio.nyc and on your favorite podcasting platform. Thank you all for tuning in, take care, we will talk to you all next week.
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