EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Dr. Richard Louis Miller, clinical psychologist for more than 65 years, bestselling author, and host of the internet radio broadcast Mind, Body, Health & Politics.
Dr. Miller is the founder of the internationally acclaimed Cokenders Alcohol and Drug Program and the creator and chief clinician of the Health Sanctuary at Wilbur Hot Springs, California. He has served on the faculty of the University of Michigan and Stanford University, as an advisor on the President's Commission on Mental Health, as a founding board member of the Gestalt Institute of San Francisco, and on the national board of directors of the Marijuana Policy Project.
His new book, The Adverse Effects and Therapeutic Potential of Psychedelic Medicines, arrives in a moment when the psychedelic conversation urgently needs the full story rather than the sanitized one.
What makes Dr. Miller's new work distinct is his willingness to look at both sides of the medicine. Drawing together insights from world experts in psychiatry, neuroscience, and psychedelic research, the book goes where most others do not: into side effects, integration challenges, and the cases where psychedelic use has caused real harm. It also offers evidence-based guidance on how these substances can still be used safely and effectively in a therapeutic context. Coming from one of the earliest advocates for psychedelic research, this is not the voice of caution from the outside. It is the voice of someone who has spent decades inside the conversation, watching what works, what does not, and what happens when reverence gives way to hype.
Together, Sam and Dr. Miller explore what an honest, mature relationship with psychedelic medicine looks like in this moment. They discuss the ground where science, spirituality, and public policy meet, the conditions that support genuine healing and the ones that quietly increase risk, and the responsibility of practitioners and participants alike as these medicines return to public life. Dr. Miller brings the perspective of an elder who has walked with these substances since long before the current renaissance and who is unafraid to name both their promise and their shadow.
Tune in and share your own questions and comments about the challenges around psychedelics on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://www.mindbodyhealthpolitics.org/
This week's episode opens with Sam Liebowitz's blog reflection on surrender, exploring how true magic and grace arrive not through control or force but through releasing our grip on specific outcomes and trusting the unfolding of the universe's own timing and wisdom. He then welcomes back Dr. Richard Louis Miller, a veteran clinical psychologist and psychedelic researcher, whose new book Adverse Effects calls for radical transparency about the risks of psychedelic medicines—including physiological dangers like tachycardia and dehydration, psychological harms from unguided "bad trips," and the lesser-discussed toll of secrecy and self-concept strain that comes from using substances still stigmatized or criminalized. Together they explore the tension between reverence and hype in the current psychedelic renaissance, touching on who may be most vulnerable to harm (such as those with histories of psychosis or bipolar disorder), the importance of proper guidance and support systems, and resources like the Fireside Project for those in crisis during an experience—all framed around a shared conviction that honest, harm-reduction-minded engagement with these sacred substances serves both safety and spiritual growth.
Dr. Miller closes by addressing the FDA's rejection of MAPS's MDMA application, arguing the decision echoed the same political and financial forces that blocked psychedelic research in 1985, with pharmaceutical companies threatened by a medicine that could replace daily prescriptions with a single annual dose; he also raises concerns that if psychedelic therapy remains prohibitively expensive due to hours of required guided sessions, it risks replicating the same inequities as Big Pharma in a country he describes as increasingly economically divided and facing a serious mental health crisis. Reflecting on why he wrote this fifth and likely final book in his series, he shares his hope that readers walk away applying a simple risk-reward framework to their own choices—not just around psychedelics, but around what they eat, drink, and breathe—and recognizing the value of radical honesty in an industry often shrouded in secrecy. He ends with practical guidance for newcomers: connect with a local psychedelic society, research trusted resources like MAPS, read widely, and above all vet both the medicine's purity and the guide accompanying the experience before proceeding.
00:00:27.290 --> 00:00:38.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Good morning, good evening, wherever you're tuning in from. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity.
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:49.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We've got another wonderful show in store for you with an excellent returning guest.
00:00:49.050 --> 00:01:00.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I'll bring him on in just a moment. But first, of course, we have our blog post from a couple of years ago, and let's get to it. So, this blog post is entitled…
00:01:00.800 --> 00:01:05.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To experience true magic, we need to surrender.
00:01:06.660 --> 00:01:09.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Magic is not something we can force.
00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:14.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is not to be called upon on demand.
00:01:14.750 --> 00:01:20.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we think we can sometimes, and that is what frustrates us.
00:01:20.750 --> 00:01:26.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The challenge when working with the magic of life is surrendering.
00:01:26.610 --> 00:01:28.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Surrendering to the moment.
00:01:28.990 --> 00:01:31.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To the timing of the universe.
00:01:31.810 --> 00:01:35.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Letting go of the need to control.
00:01:36.520 --> 00:01:40.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Too often, the desire to experience magic
00:01:40.930 --> 00:01:43.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is born of a need to control.
00:01:44.520 --> 00:01:48.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To control life in its unpredictability.
00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:54.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And to make things go the way we want them to go.
00:01:54.750 --> 00:02:01.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet when we release the need to control, We can experience something greater.
00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:05.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Something beyond our own imagination.
00:02:06.740 --> 00:02:09.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For the deepest and truest magic.
00:02:09.710 --> 00:02:13.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Comes from somewhere outside of us.
00:02:13.810 --> 00:02:17.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: From a place that is eternal and infinite.
00:02:18.650 --> 00:02:21.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Directing that infiniteness.
00:02:21.580 --> 00:02:25.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Into something… That finite.
00:02:25.470 --> 00:02:27.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Takes the magic away.
00:02:28.380 --> 00:02:31.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It leaves no room for things to work out.
00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:34.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Even better than we could imagine.
00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:43.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There are tremendous possibilities and potentials out there that exist in the realm of the unknown.
00:02:44.290 --> 00:02:46.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That is why the universe.
00:02:47.150 --> 00:02:51.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Has a much better imagination than we do.
00:02:52.090 --> 00:02:53.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: True magic.
00:02:53.880 --> 00:02:57.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Happens when we surrender to the unknown.
00:02:58.050 --> 00:02:59.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And release.
00:02:59.500 --> 00:03:02.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All the need to control.
00:03:03.160 --> 00:03:09.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When the eternal can bring us to new heights and new vistas in our life.
00:03:10.220 --> 00:03:13.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can work dynamic potentials into our path.
00:03:14.070 --> 00:03:17.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we could never have planned out on our own.
00:03:18.710 --> 00:03:22.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can never force such magic to happen.
00:03:23.130 --> 00:03:33.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because we could have never imagined all the intricacies that go into a magical event.
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:39.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Magic is not only beyond our imagination.
00:03:39.540 --> 00:03:42.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is beyond our planning.
00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:53.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: beyond our ability to arrange all the events that need to happen to create such wonders.
00:03:54.790 --> 00:04:02.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So to experience real magic, The key ingredient is surrender.
00:04:03.750 --> 00:04:07.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Surrender all need to control.
00:04:08.030 --> 00:04:11.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To receive a specific outcome.
00:04:12.140 --> 00:04:18.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to have things go the exact way you want them to go.
00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:20.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Only then.
00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:22.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can we experience?
00:04:22.870 --> 00:04:24.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: True. Magic.
00:04:27.610 --> 00:04:33.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… I wrote this blog post after a conversation with my wife.
00:04:33.940 --> 00:04:42.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We were just kind of talking about the way things worked out around a certain situation.
00:04:42.890 --> 00:04:48.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… They worked out, like, better than we could possibly imagine.
00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:56.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… The reason why they were able to work out that way.
00:04:56.850 --> 00:05:04.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Was because… We weren't trying so hard to control, like, every aspect of what we were doing.
00:05:05.950 --> 00:05:10.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We just kind of let things happen naturally.
00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:16.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And because we did, Things worked out even better.
00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:18.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: than we thought.
00:05:20.830 --> 00:05:24.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And when we sat down afterwards.
00:05:24.780 --> 00:05:27.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And we were just reflecting on the situation.
00:05:28.900 --> 00:05:46.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and we were looking at all these things, we realized, oh my God, like, if this didn't happen, and that didn't happen, and that didn't happen, and this got us here, and that got us there, like, it was so many factors had come into play.
00:05:47.110 --> 00:05:51.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That got things to go exactly the way they did go.
00:05:53.330 --> 00:05:55.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That if we hadn't
00:05:55.890 --> 00:06:10.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: had… if we had tried to, like, really control things and make things go, like, we could not have ever thought of all these little different facets that had to come into play, that had to work out exactly right.
00:06:11.290 --> 00:06:16.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For things to really go in a truly wonderful, wonderful way.
00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:28.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, look, sometimes it does take perspective, sometimes it takes time to see how things worked out. Sometimes, in the moment.
00:06:28.310 --> 00:06:34.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It appears that things are not working out in our favor, and we're upset, and we're depressed.
00:06:35.180 --> 00:06:38.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because it seems like everything is going the wrong way.
00:06:39.310 --> 00:06:46.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But then weeks and months and years later, we can reflect on that, and then we see, well.
00:06:46.220 --> 00:06:53.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Actually, no. Actually, even though that was a very challenging situation, things worked out even better than we thought they could have.
00:06:55.780 --> 00:07:02.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… Sometimes it's just surrendering to the unknown of life.
00:07:04.030 --> 00:07:10.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And look, I'm not saying this is 100% of the time, all the time, for every single case.
00:07:11.640 --> 00:07:16.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But sometimes Just letting go of the need to control.
00:07:17.350 --> 00:07:19.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: just letting go.
00:07:21.210 --> 00:07:26.569 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Pushing things to work out the way we want them to work out exactly.
00:07:27.140 --> 00:07:28.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes.
00:07:29.640 --> 00:07:38.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That surrender… allows things to work out in a fashion we never could have imagined.
00:07:40.140 --> 00:07:43.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To work out in a way that that.
00:07:43.690 --> 00:07:46.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We would never have been able to.
00:07:47.620 --> 00:07:50.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Plan and and execute.
00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:54.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In a way for everything to work out so well.
00:07:57.900 --> 00:08:02.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, you know, it's just interesting. I, I.
00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:06.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, I work with a lot of people, I talk to a lot of people, and it just…
00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:08.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So interesting how.
00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:14.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Many people I meet who want to experience something magical.
00:08:15.290 --> 00:08:20.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet at the same time, they feel the need to control everything.
00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:28.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I just this reflection of how this need to control and wanting to see magic in life.
00:08:29.650 --> 00:08:32.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They're really at odds with each other.
00:08:34.289 --> 00:08:37.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it was just my personal reflection that
00:08:38.100 --> 00:08:41.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The most magical times in my life.
00:08:42.150 --> 00:08:46.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: were the times when I surrendered the most.
00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:55.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's the… The story of this blog, and that's why I share this with you all.
00:08:56.070 --> 00:09:00.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Today, because… I know there are many people out there.
00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:02.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: who really, you know.
00:09:02.670 --> 00:09:08.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Want to experience some magic in your lives? Want to experience some miracle of some kind?
00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:15.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so… My experience has taught me.
00:09:16.180 --> 00:09:18.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That one of the key lessons.
00:09:19.550 --> 00:09:21.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In that experience.
00:09:21.890 --> 00:09:23.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is surrender.
00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:28.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… That's, my blog post for this week.
00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:34.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The title, again, is To Experience True Magic, We Need to Surrender.
00:09:35.170 --> 00:09:42.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course, you can always find my blog on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com.
00:09:42.660 --> 00:09:47.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or on the station's website at talkradio.nyc slash blog.
00:09:48.390 --> 00:09:56.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. Now, it is my extreme pleasure to welcome back to the show Dr. Richard Lewis Miller.
00:09:56.860 --> 00:10:11.569 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a clinical psychologist for more than 65 years, multi-time best-selling author, and host of his own internet radio broadcast, The Mind, Body, Health, and Politics Show.
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:26.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dr. Miller is the founder of the internationally acclaimed Kochenders Alcohol and Drug Program, and the creator and chief clinician of the Health Sanctuary at Wilbur Hot Springs in California.
00:10:26.510 --> 00:10:43.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He has served on the faculty of the University of Michigan, as well as Stanford University, and an advisor on the President's Commission on Mental Health, as a founding board member of the Gestalt Institute of San Francisco, and on the National Board
00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:46.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of directors of the Marijuana Policy Project.
00:10:46.870 --> 00:10:48.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's new book.
00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:52.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Adverse effects?
00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And therapeutic potential of psychedelic medicines.
00:10:56.460 --> 00:10:59.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Arrives at a moment when the psychedelic.
00:10:59.910 --> 00:11:07.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Conversation urges urgently needs the full story rather than a sanitized one.
00:11:07.830 --> 00:11:14.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What makes Dr. Miller's new work distinct is his willingness to look at both sides of the medicine.
00:11:14.760 --> 00:11:32.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Drawing together insights from world experts in psychiatry, neuroscience, and psychedelic research, the book goes where most others do not, into side effects, integration challenges, and the cases where psychedelic use has caused real harm.
00:11:32.370 --> 00:11:42.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It also offers evidence-based guidance on how these substances can still be used safely and effectively in a therapeutic context.
00:11:42.300 --> 00:11:57.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Coming from one of the earliest advocates for psychedelic research, this is not the voice of caution from the outside. It is a voice of someone who has spent decades inside the conversation, watching what works, what does not work.
00:11:57.890 --> 00:12:02.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And what happens when reverence gives way to hype?
00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:06.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you, Dr. Miller, for taking the time to come on my show today.
00:12:06.950 --> 00:12:15.540 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Oh, so thank you so much for having me again. Pleasure to be with you. You have such a great radio voice. I just like listening to you.
00:12:15.540 --> 00:12:28.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Miller. I appreciate that. I really am excited about having you come on, because I love the fact that your book
00:12:28.450 --> 00:12:46.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is really talking about, you know, the sides of psychedelic medicine that you don't often hear most people talk about. You know, people love to talk about, oh, I went down to Peru and had this great experience, or I went to work with this facilitator and did a bunch of mushrooms, and it was life-changing.
00:12:46.830 --> 00:12:52.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But when somebody doesn't have a good experience, you don't often hear them talk about it too much.
00:12:52.790 --> 00:13:12.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And there's so much movement, there's so much happening today in the psychedelic industry that I felt it's important to present maybe a more balanced view of what not just the potential and the good that they have, but the risk and the dangers.
00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:13.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As well.
00:13:15.930 --> 00:13:22.109 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In way of context, The pharmaceutical industry in this country.
00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:25.529 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Are driven by profits.
00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:26.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:31.470 Dr Richard Louis Miller: To the expense of their customers or patients.
00:13:31.950 --> 00:13:32.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:35.729 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That is a very sad state of affairs.
00:13:35.900 --> 00:13:42.650 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And it's a sad state of affairs in many areas of industry in the United States.
00:13:42.820 --> 00:13:50.360 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Where there's more concern about making profit than what the customer will get down the road.
00:13:50.520 --> 00:14:05.200 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And the pharmaceutical industry has, you know, been particularly reprehensible about this, because they've been caught over and over again hiding their adverse effects.
00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:12.580 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And what a person really wants to know, When they ingest a medicine.
00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:13.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:21.510 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Is what are the benefits? What are the possible benefits that I can get from this medicine?
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.929 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And what are the adverse effects that I might get from this medicine?
00:14:28.300 --> 00:14:33.460 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because if the adverse effects outweigh the benefits, or they're even close.
00:14:33.660 --> 00:14:37.329 Dr Richard Louis Miller: A person might not want to take the particular medicine.
00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:39.310 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Case in point…
00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:50.019 Dr Richard Louis Miller: There is a medicine called letrozole that is given to women who have a particular kind of breast cancer.
00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:53.780 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And the letrozole.
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:57.140 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Has such negative effects.
00:14:57.650 --> 00:15:04.980 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Including… Fatigue, including complete loss of sex drive.
00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:12.020 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Including irritability, and… Personality distortions.
00:15:12.510 --> 00:15:13.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:15:13.040 --> 00:15:16.380 Dr Richard Louis Miller: This medicine has so many adverse effects.
00:15:16.890 --> 00:15:21.990 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That even though it's potentially life-saving.
00:15:22.210 --> 00:15:26.149 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In stopping cancer from coming back.
00:15:26.640 --> 00:15:30.130 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Even though it's life… potentially life-saving.
00:15:30.250 --> 00:15:35.320 Dr Richard Louis Miller: A significant percentage of women choose not to take it.
00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:36.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:15:36.300 --> 00:15:36.970 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Gross.
00:15:37.660 --> 00:15:41.300 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The negative effects are so severe.
00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:42.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:15:42.510 --> 00:15:45.529 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And I'm using that as a case in point.
00:15:45.810 --> 00:15:52.199 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And by the way, while I'm talking about breast cancer, let me just make a brief public
00:15:52.510 --> 00:16:00.870 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Safety announcement, and say, That if you, or anybody you know that's listening to this or watching this.
00:16:01.150 --> 00:16:06.520 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Knows a woman who has what's called dense breast tissue.
00:16:06.710 --> 00:16:08.699 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Dense breast tissue.
00:16:08.870 --> 00:16:19.789 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That woman needs to be alerted, because as it turns out, 50% of the people, the women in the United States, have breast… dense breast tissue.
00:16:20.070 --> 00:16:28.029 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If you have that, When you go for your mammogram to detect the possibility of cancer.
00:16:28.370 --> 00:16:35.220 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The gold standard, namely the MRI, It's not adequate for women.
00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:35.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:16:35.810 --> 00:16:49.980 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Breast tissue, it's only adequate for women who do not have dense breast tissue, and women across the country are not being told about this, so they take the MRI, they think they're in the clear.
00:16:50.130 --> 00:16:51.490 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And they're not.
00:16:51.630 --> 00:17:07.499 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And therefore the cancer that they have now has a chance to metastasize and go to the other parts of the body where it could kill them, whereas if it was detected while it was still in the breast, it could be eliminated.
00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:16.040 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And so, this is an important piece of information for everybody to know. Getting back now to the book and adverse effects.
00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:18.930 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I do digress at times.
00:17:19.339 --> 00:17:22.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, let me ask you.
00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:23.910 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Pharmaceuticals.
00:17:24.650 --> 00:17:49.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Let me ask just one question. So when we're talking, because I want to be clear for our audience, when we're talking about adverse effects, we're not just talking about a bad trip, right? People have had bad trips for decades. A bad trip does not necessarily indicate an adverse effect. Many people say a bad experience, a quote, unquote, bad experience, is one that they actually learn the most
00:17:49.100 --> 00:17:49.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from.
00:17:49.770 --> 00:17:53.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But an adverse effect is actually something different, isn't it?
00:17:54.130 --> 00:17:55.050 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Correct.
00:17:55.180 --> 00:18:00.770 Dr Richard Louis Miller: A bad trip is an opportunity to, if you have a bad trip.
00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:02.990 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And you have the right guide.
00:18:03.020 --> 00:18:12.210 Dr Richard Louis Miller: A bad trip is the best trip you can have, because it's bringing out material that's extremely difficult to deal with.
00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:31.069 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It's bringing out your demons, it's bringing out the stuff that's been stuffed into compartments for years, and all of a sudden you take this medicine and out pops this material from 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, right? It can be terrifying, but if you have the right guide.
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:36.400 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It then becomes healing, and it becomes mastery.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:19:00.779 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And it becomes self-confidence that I took a look at that terrible stuff in my box and I met it head on and I dealt with it and I healed it and I soothed it and I loved it. And now I'm not afraid anymore of the possibility of it jumping out of that box while I'm sitting and having a nice dinner or driving down the road or teaching a class.
00:19:00.780 --> 00:19:09.479 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Or doing my work. All the places that might have come out and terrified me. I don't have that anymore. So a bad trip can be a great trip.
00:19:09.590 --> 00:19:15.310 Dr Richard Louis Miller: However, A bad trip without… Proper guidance.
00:19:15.460 --> 00:19:17.539 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Can be an adverse effect.
00:19:17.620 --> 00:19:18.810 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because…
00:19:18.890 --> 00:19:36.529 Dr Richard Louis Miller: it's not healed, it's not soothed, it just feeds on itself, and the person is exhausted, finally, from dealing with the anxiety and the terror, and they're looking forward to the end of it, and then they often have flashbacks. But that is one adverse effect having to do
00:19:36.530 --> 00:19:44.109 Dr Richard Louis Miller: with the actual psychology of the medicine. But there are other adverse effects that are in different categories. For example.
00:19:46.540 --> 00:19:51.689 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Some psychedelic medicines, Lead to blood pressure spikes.
00:19:52.150 --> 00:19:53.759 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Very rapid.
00:19:53.960 --> 00:20:02.899 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Some people go into what's called tachycardia, which means heart rate over 100.
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:15.499 Dr Richard Louis Miller: They'll approach 120, 130, 140. Tachycardia is very dangerous, and tachycardia can bring with it afibulation, which means the heart goes out of rhythm.
00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:21.329 Dr Richard Louis Miller: A heart out of rhythm is a problematical heart that could lead to heart failure.
00:20:21.630 --> 00:20:24.060 Dr Richard Louis Miller: So, these are dangers.
00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:29.610 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Heart rate is a danger. Blood pressure spike.
00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:32.970 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Is it a possible adverse effect?
00:20:34.150 --> 00:20:36.690 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Dehydration.
00:20:36.800 --> 00:20:39.240 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Is a possible effect.
00:20:40.350 --> 00:20:41.560 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And then…
00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:49.000 Dr Richard Louis Miller: There are many, many others which you can read about on the book, but the more important thing than listing all of them
00:20:50.880 --> 00:21:08.539 Dr Richard Louis Miller: is to get across to the public that we're going through a renaissance, and there's a kind of wanting to jump on the bandwagon, and fly to Peru, or jump into your latest, you know, ayahuasca trip, or something, somebody you hear about, and…
00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:12.220 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Jumping into psychedelics.
00:21:13.040 --> 00:21:20.779 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Can be akin to getting up in an airplane and you never flew before, and somebody says, take over the wheel.
00:21:21.030 --> 00:21:21.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:21:21.830 --> 00:21:24.999 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It's not a safe thing to do.
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:25.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:43.320 Dr Richard Louis Miller: A lot of research that a person wants to do if they want to use these medicines properly and use them for their own benefit, their own mind expansion, their own personal health, their own communicating with a loved one. They are wonderful for a lot of things.
00:21:43.810 --> 00:21:46.400 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But like any other tool.
00:21:47.120 --> 00:22:02.300 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It's important to learn how to use the tool before you use it, or I should say, like many tools. There are some tools, a screwdriver, you know, a pair of pliers, you can pick it up, you know what to do.
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.109 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But there are other things.
00:22:04.590 --> 00:22:09.010 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Like, technical things, and things that require practice.
00:22:09.090 --> 00:22:24.610 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That you don't just jump on and do, as I said, you don't fly a plane alone, you don't get on a tractor by yourself if you've never been on one and just start driving it, and these medicines need to be treated with the same level of respect.
00:22:24.790 --> 00:22:28.830 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If, and only if, Safety.
00:22:29.360 --> 00:22:31.130 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Is of interest to you.
00:22:31.450 --> 00:22:49.440 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If he is not of interest to you, and you say, I don't care what happens to me, I'll throw the dice, whatever happens, it'll happen. If you're that kind of person, then I'm not talking… I'm talking to a whole different crowd. A crowd who wants to take care of their sacred body.
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:55.049 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And treat it as well as possible, and then there are protocols to learn
00:22:55.420 --> 00:23:00.749 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In order to safely take these medicines and get benefit.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:02.689 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And get beneath it.
00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:06.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, and there are certain people who…
00:23:07.110 --> 00:23:12.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Working with psychedelic medicines is perfectly fine.
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:14.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But then there are other people who have.
00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:25.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a risk profile that make it somewhat unsafe to work with these medicines in general, right? Like people who…
00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:39.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: have experienced psychosis in their life, or bipolar, or certain mania, that these medicines can trigger a relapse into those conditions. So, it's important for people to research
00:23:39.430 --> 00:23:47.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, and under educate themselves and understand that, that these substance, these sacred substances are not for everyone.
00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:51.440 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Well, actually… We just don't know.
00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:57.500 Dr Richard Louis Miller: about those categories that you mentioned. And so, in the name of safety.
00:23:57.560 --> 00:24:09.319 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Since we're tiptoeing into this whole science, after it's been suppressed by the government for over 50 years, we're just tiptoeing in. And when you tiptoe in.
00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:21.880 Dr Richard Louis Miller: You want to practice and do the research on people who are as safe as possible, not the ones who are the outliers. Now, it's theoretically possible, sir.
00:24:22.330 --> 00:24:25.389 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That these medicines might be excellent!
00:24:25.570 --> 00:24:36.789 Dr Richard Louis Miller: for bipolar. They might be excellent for obsessive-compulsive behavior. In fact, there's some research on that already. They might be excellent for schizophrenia. However.
00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:39.280 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It's too early.
00:24:39.550 --> 00:24:42.349 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In our research, to risk.
00:24:43.180 --> 00:24:46.340 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Giving it to those people as an experiment.
00:24:46.660 --> 00:25:01.590 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because there is concern, just as you pointed out, that the opposite might happen. They might go further into their aberrant behavior, or if you want to use the language, their psychosis.
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.669 Dr Richard Louis Miller: might go further into it. So.
00:25:04.800 --> 00:25:08.859 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That's… it's just scary for the profession
00:25:09.370 --> 00:25:17.720 Dr Richard Louis Miller: To pick people who are outliers, or who have any kind of pre-existing condition that could lead to big problems.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:26.090 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Nobody wants to be the therapist that's dealing with that if something really terrible, you know, out of control should happen.
00:25:26.620 --> 00:25:44.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right. I mean, yes, there's always the possibility that in the long term, the healing could be tremendous. However, does the person have the support they need? Are they able to do they have? Do they have the environment? Are they able to deal with it? Do they have the right guidance?
00:25:44.510 --> 00:25:44.990 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Yes.
00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:51.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And most people… Probably don't if some major incident like that happened, so.
00:25:51.560 --> 00:25:51.970 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Yes.
00:25:51.970 --> 00:26:00.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, we need to be mindful of not just what happens while they're under the influence, but what happens after.
00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:05.419 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Afterwards, absolutely great point Michael and by the way.
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:10.240 Dr Richard Louis Miller: As an aside, That's related.
00:26:11.090 --> 00:26:17.189 Dr Richard Louis Miller: There is a non-profit organization Called the Fireside Project.
00:26:17.190 --> 00:26:17.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:26:17.850 --> 00:26:28.400 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That offers free counseling to anybody who's having a difficult time while they're under the influence of psychedelic medicine.
00:26:28.520 --> 00:26:31.050 Dr Richard Louis Miller: You've heard of the Fireside Project? Yes.
00:26:31.050 --> 00:26:32.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I know the gentleman who started it.
00:26:33.610 --> 00:26:35.580 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Joshua White?
00:26:35.580 --> 00:26:39.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes, up in Connecticut. I met him many, many years ago.
00:26:39.380 --> 00:26:41.749 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Oh, I work with him, I'm an advisor.
00:26:41.750 --> 00:26:42.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to the fire.
00:26:42.350 --> 00:26:43.549 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Fireside Project.
00:26:43.550 --> 00:26:44.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wonderful.
00:26:44.230 --> 00:26:51.850 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And I think it's a great organization offering this free counseling without… anonymously.
00:26:52.260 --> 00:26:57.619 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If you're having, and everybody listening to this should tell everybody they know.
00:26:58.130 --> 00:27:10.529 Dr Richard Louis Miller: and tell them to tell everybody they know that there's free counseling if you get in trouble during a psychedelic experience, and you call Fireside Project, they'll have somebody to talk to you.
00:27:10.530 --> 00:27:11.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:27:11.300 --> 00:27:13.860 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But let's get back to the politics of this.
00:27:14.110 --> 00:27:19.450 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The politics… Of corporations such as Big Pharma.
00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:20.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:27:20.590 --> 00:27:23.780 Dr Richard Louis Miller: who hide Information.
00:27:24.040 --> 00:27:25.410 Dr Richard Louis Miller: From the public.
00:27:26.210 --> 00:27:28.750 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That might deter their sales.
00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:33.900 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Right. What I'm advocating for in my book, Adverse Effects.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:39.999 Dr Richard Louis Miller: is I'm advocating that psychedelic science do the exact opposite.
00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:51.240 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And tell everything that we know. Let the public know about every pimple, every little problem, so that the public can make informed decisions.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:52.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:27:52.220 --> 00:28:05.430 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I want to take this? Here's what happens. This percentage, 3% of the people got this, 12% got this. Is this worth… is this worth it to me, given my situation?
00:28:06.500 --> 00:28:10.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right. So they can make a more informed decision.
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:14.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it's a tricky,
00:28:14.890 --> 00:28:25.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Prospect to to get them, because how do you get an organization that come together for the purpose of making money?
00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:32.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: release information that might cause them to make less money, right? They're not gonna do that on their own, necessarily.
00:28:32.830 --> 00:28:45.000 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Well, maybe that leaves it up to the rest of us who are not in the medicine manufacturing business to pull back the covers. Now, I want to tell you about some other side effects.
00:28:46.100 --> 00:28:51.119 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Here's a side effect that happened to me, a negative adverse effect.
00:28:51.120 --> 00:28:51.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:28:51.630 --> 00:28:53.479 Dr Richard Louis Miller: from psychedelic medicine.
00:28:53.890 --> 00:28:54.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:28:57.780 --> 00:28:59.960 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I'm an honest citizen.
00:29:00.210 --> 00:29:03.760 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I've been an honest citizen All my life.
00:29:04.890 --> 00:29:17.070 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I believe that if I were to become a dishonest citizen, then I would have to go to college for 11 years to learn how to become a really great dishonest citizen.
00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:25.969 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I would never just dabble in it, because I think if you're going to be a dishonest person, you better know what you're doing, otherwise you're going to end up in jail.
00:29:26.390 --> 00:29:26.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:31.539 Dr Richard Louis Miller: My way, I took being honest as the course.
00:29:31.770 --> 00:29:32.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:29:32.510 --> 00:29:43.149 Dr Richard Louis Miller: However, When I started experimenting in the tradition of scientists for hundreds of years who experiment on themselves.
00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:51.270 Dr Richard Louis Miller: rather than others. Remember, it's only in recent years that we've begun doing experiments on human beings.
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:59.819 Dr Richard Louis Miller: For all hundreds or thousands of years before that, scientists were only allowed to experiment on themselves or dead people.
00:30:00.190 --> 00:30:00.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:30:00.610 --> 00:30:07.640 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And recently, we started allowing human subjects, it's called, right? Although we still use monkeys and mice.
00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:18.109 Dr Richard Louis Miller: So… When I started experimenting, I was experimenting with an illegal substance.
00:30:18.350 --> 00:30:18.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:30:18.910 --> 00:30:26.929 Dr Richard Louis Miller: which means me, Richard, on a citizen, had become me, Richard Outlaw.
00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:28.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:30:28.520 --> 00:30:32.140 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I wasn't comfortable, and I've never been comfortable with that.
00:30:32.300 --> 00:30:45.140 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I don't think of myself as a criminal or an outlaw, but once I continuously started doing that 50 years ago, and having those substances in my purview.
00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:47.659 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I was technically a criminal.
00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:48.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:30:48.310 --> 00:30:54.199 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That was an adverse effect, sir, because it affected me psychologically.
00:30:54.560 --> 00:31:03.199 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I don't want to think of myself that way. And yet, the reality is, I have to be very careful about who I told.
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:04.460 Dr Richard Louis Miller: About what?
00:31:04.460 --> 00:31:04.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:31:04.910 --> 00:31:06.080 Dr Richard Louis Miller: many years.
00:31:06.780 --> 00:31:07.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:31:07.100 --> 00:31:19.040 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And I wrote about that in one of my books, Psychedelic Wisdom, where I interviewed many people in their 70s and 80s who had been doing psychedelic medicine for 40 or 50 years, and in secrecy.
00:31:19.220 --> 00:31:19.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:31:19.900 --> 00:31:26.260 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And when you're in secrecy, you've got something to hide, and that's a kind of insecurity.
00:31:26.570 --> 00:31:30.640 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because when you're secure, you can let it all hang out. You got no.
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:31.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:31:31.050 --> 00:31:32.029 Dr Richard Louis Miller: What are you about?
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, it's an important point.
00:31:35.060 --> 00:31:37.500 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Well, that's an adverse effect.
00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:50.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes, it is. And it's one that people don't often think of because they're thinking more of the physical or mental effects, but not the societal effects in a way, which is what you're talking about.
00:31:51.050 --> 00:31:54.980 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Exactly. The change in how it affects your self-concept.
00:31:54.980 --> 00:32:19.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, okay, we're going to take a pause for a moment. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, I've got some more questions for you about why you wrote the book at this particular point in time, and maybe some things that have come out, or things that have happened recently that show why there's such a need for, you know, what many call harm reduction, or recall
00:32:19.210 --> 00:32:23.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Prevention from adverse effects, okay?
00:32:23.710 --> 00:32:25.669 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Definitely, I'll be right here waiting.
00:32:25.670 --> 00:32:45.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right, wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour, awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday, every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1pm Eastern time, right here in talkradio.nyc, and we'll be right back with our guest, Dr Richard Lewis Miller, author of the book.
00:32:45.090 --> 00:32:49.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Adverse effects and therapeutic potential of psychedelic medicines.
00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:34:06.170 --> 00:34:14.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. So Dr. Miller, there have been some
00:34:14.350 --> 00:34:29.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: pretty big things happening in the psychedelic industry lately, but one of them that made a lot of people not so happy was MAPS's application for MDMA.
00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:49.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And the application got rejected by the FDA because of issues with the data. And, you know, a lot of people talk about, well, there's political stuff around it. There was other things, influences that caused them to to not approve MDMA.
00:34:49.170 --> 00:35:01.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What was your view on that? Was that the was that justified that the MDMA didn't get approved on their trials, or do you feel it was?
00:35:01.390 --> 00:35:12.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: an indication that we do need to be a little more clinical, a little more prudent with how we accumulate data and how we run our trials.
00:35:13.540 --> 00:35:15.269 Dr Richard Louis Miller: This was a retake.
00:35:15.590 --> 00:35:19.440 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Of what we went through in 1985.
00:35:19.630 --> 00:35:21.439 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The exact same thing.
00:35:21.850 --> 00:35:27.590 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Really. They came up with the exact same various kinds of reasons.
00:35:28.140 --> 00:35:33.709 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And I don't think the reasons have anything to do with science.
00:35:33.830 --> 00:35:37.240 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Or with the clinical tools that we used.
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:43.330 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We've got a massive amount of clinical data on MDMA now.
00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:49.910 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And… It's obvious to anybody in science
00:35:49.940 --> 00:36:08.270 Dr Richard Louis Miller: that MDMA is a safe medicine for psychotherapeutic use. It's also obvious to anyone who's either taken it or used it that it's a… an excellent, adjunct to couples therapy, because it… it,
00:36:08.310 --> 00:36:14.600 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It softens… The defensive system, and it opens up empathy.
00:36:14.740 --> 00:36:25.590 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And what more can a couple want than to be less defensive with each other and more empathetic with each other in a therapy session, and so.
00:36:26.810 --> 00:36:29.769 Dr Richard Louis Miller: They did again what they did in 85.
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:37.040 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I don't know… The exact politics behind it.
00:36:38.060 --> 00:36:41.970 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But my speculation is… That.
00:36:42.410 --> 00:36:46.909 Dr Richard Louis Miller: When you're a company that's… A manufacturing medicine.
00:36:47.260 --> 00:36:50.410 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That you have to take every single day.
00:36:51.050 --> 00:36:56.580 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And somebody comes out with a medicine that you can take once a year.
00:36:56.940 --> 00:37:00.410 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Your business model is in trouble.
00:37:00.660 --> 00:37:01.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:05.709 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And… It's just so interesting.
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:16.199 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That, in the face… Of this kind of information, The pharmaceutical companies Are willing to march on.
00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:23.960 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In the same exact way that the tobacco companies were willing at one point to swear.
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:24.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:37:24.460 --> 00:37:39.950 Dr Richard Louis Miller: that tobacco wasn't addictive. In the same way that those medical doctors in that family, which I won't name, went to Congress and told them that OxyContin is not addictive.
00:37:40.350 --> 00:37:42.980 Dr Richard Louis Miller: These are bold-faced lies!
00:37:43.140 --> 00:37:47.809 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That these, people are perpetrating on the public.
00:37:48.560 --> 00:37:50.829 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And they are… they are threatened.
00:37:51.190 --> 00:37:54.730 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because if they don't come up with a way
00:37:54.860 --> 00:38:02.829 Dr Richard Louis Miller: To manufacture these very same psychedelic medicines, and move in on the market.
00:38:03.190 --> 00:38:12.519 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Their market share will be dramatically reduced by those who do manufacture the psychedelics, because
00:38:13.370 --> 00:38:15.589 Dr Richard Louis Miller: There's no stopping a river.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:22.110 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And the river of psychedelic medicine has been unleashed in recent years.
00:38:22.350 --> 00:38:36.599 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And they can come down now with the police again, and turn down maps as they did again, and do all kinds of fascist things, but you're not gonna stop it anymore, because too many million Americans
00:38:36.870 --> 00:38:49.690 Dr Richard Louis Miller: have already tried them, and they didn't go to hell, and all the other terrible things that some people promised them. And when you have millions of people trying something.
00:38:50.050 --> 00:39:03.019 Dr Richard Louis Miller: You're not gonna stop it. So, there's momentum that's going now, and I'm sure the pharmaceutical companies are working very hard to come up with products that they can sell that are gonna compete.
00:39:03.330 --> 00:39:16.829 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But all this is a way of saying that these forces of money that I'm talking about, I'm quite certain were involved with that FDA turning down the MAPS,
00:39:16.830 --> 00:39:17.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you.
00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:27.319 Dr Richard Louis Miller: application for more research for the particular and legalization of MDMA as a as a medicine and and who suffers.
00:39:27.540 --> 00:39:28.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The public.
00:39:28.420 --> 00:39:28.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you.
00:39:29.410 --> 00:39:30.450 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Public suffer.
00:39:30.850 --> 00:39:35.770 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Now, we do have something else going on, Michael, that I should mention.
00:39:39.010 --> 00:39:41.230 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We have a big problem.
00:39:41.650 --> 00:39:45.289 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That most of the psychedelic medicines.
00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:52.579 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Ayahuasca, LSD, and psilocybin, They last many hours.
00:39:52.890 --> 00:39:53.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:39:53.560 --> 00:40:02.460 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Which means if you have a guide or a professional therapist with you, that person has to be with you for many hours.
00:40:02.750 --> 00:40:06.459 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And since those people charge by the hour.
00:40:06.570 --> 00:40:09.720 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And you're with somebody for 6, 7 hours.
00:40:10.040 --> 00:40:14.330 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The experience can be extremely expensive.
00:40:14.600 --> 00:40:15.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:22.770 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If we maintain a posture, we being the psychedelic science community, Of holding out products.
00:40:23.220 --> 00:40:27.889 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That are extremely expensive, because they're so labor intensive.
00:40:28.350 --> 00:40:41.970 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We'll be no different than Big Pharma, we're just coming at it from a different angle. They're charging a little bit every day of the year, and get a whole bunch of money from you at the end of the year, because you used 365 of their pills.
00:40:42.030 --> 00:40:50.099 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We might be saying you only need one pill a year, but if it takes 8 hours, at $400 an hour, it costs you…
00:40:50.100 --> 00:40:50.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:40:51.450 --> 00:41:03.029 Dr Richard Louis Miller: $3,200 or $5,000 for the weekend, how many human beings in America are going to be able to pay $5,000 for, you know, a weekend experience? So once again.
00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:18.370 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We'd be stuck in the same situation that we think we're trying to improve on, the pharmaceutical situation, which our medicines are not only better, but we also have to be competitive financially.
00:41:18.490 --> 00:41:30.999 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And you've seen, Michael, that some of the sprays that come out and some of the other things, they're very expensive. They're very expensive. And we're living in a time now where
00:41:31.230 --> 00:41:44.399 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The country is being bifurcated. Instead of upper, middle, and lower class, we pretty much eliminated a lot of the middle class, so what we have is now more like
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:54.260 Dr Richard Louis Miller: 70-30, with 70% of the population down, and about 30% of the population up.
00:41:54.970 --> 00:41:55.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:41:55.850 --> 00:42:01.800 Dr Richard Louis Miller: See? And that makes for a very difficult situation, because the 30%
00:42:02.140 --> 00:42:09.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Represent at least 100 million people, and when you have 100 million people that can afford things.
00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:14.900 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It makes it even tougher for those who can't, Because there isn't pressure
00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:19.980 Dr Richard Louis Miller: On the manufacturers, since they've got that 30% to sell to.
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:21.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:42:21.220 --> 00:42:27.649 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Pressure to take care of the rest of the crowd and the rest of the crowd are suffering mightily.
00:42:28.290 --> 00:42:34.950 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Suffering mightily we've got serious and this is the most serious mental health crisis.
00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:37.920 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In my lifetime, Michael.
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:44.010 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Oh, serious, we have 30 to 40% depressed, 30 to 40%.
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:50.490 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And with anxiety, 72% overweight or obese.
00:42:51.110 --> 00:42:54.829 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I'm not quite sure of diabetes, but it's pretty high.
00:42:54.830 --> 00:42:55.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:42:55.820 --> 00:43:06.789 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And then 70% living paycheck to paycheck. You put those variables together, anxiety, depression, overweight, and paycheck to paycheck.
00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:13.839 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That's a prescription for disaster, and that's the situation we're in in our country right now.
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:15.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No, no.
00:43:15.590 --> 00:43:17.290 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It's very serious.
00:43:17.290 --> 00:43:30.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Dr. Miller, you've been, you know, around this industry for a long time. You're truly one of the elders. You've seen… you know many of the
00:43:30.620 --> 00:43:37.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the legends in the psychedelic industry. You've talked with them, you've interviewed them on your shows.
00:43:37.750 --> 00:43:48.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why did you come out with this book now? Why did you feel it was necessary to talk about adverse reactions and what to do about it at this point in time?
00:43:48.750 --> 00:43:51.489 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Well, for two reasons. It's a good question.
00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:56.279 Dr Richard Louis Miller: One reason is, the book is part of a series.
00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:57.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:43:57.020 --> 00:43:59.740 Dr Richard Louis Miller: See, it's the fifth one of a series.
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:04.620 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The first book, Psychedelic Medicine, I brought the public.
00:44:04.990 --> 00:44:21.360 Dr Richard Louis Miller: to meet the greatest scientists in the world who were doing psychedelic medicine research in the face of the government saying no for 50 years. These were the few people who managed to get permission and did research.
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:33.709 Dr Richard Louis Miller: it was Stan Grof, it was, it was, Charlie Grobe at UCLA, I interviewed Roland Griffiths at John Hopkins, you know, the people who just kept
00:44:33.710 --> 00:44:43.130 Dr Richard Louis Miller: bumping into the government until they got permission, they did something. So the first book was The Greatest Scientist, and here's what they have to say about what they found out.
00:44:43.300 --> 00:44:48.299 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The second book was, Here's what prominent elders
00:44:48.510 --> 00:44:55.699 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Have to say about having experimented with these medicines that these other people are researching.
00:44:55.970 --> 00:45:02.489 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Here's what these people have to say after experimenting with them for 40 and 50 years.
00:45:02.740 --> 00:45:15.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And so I had these people, quote, out themselves. Most of these people had never talked about their, their, experiment, self-experimentation with psychedelics out of fear.
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:29.199 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In the same way, for example, that the great astrophysicist and astronomer Carl Sagan never talked about his use of LSD, and he told his wife, you can tell the public after I'm dead.
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:30.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: -H.
00:45:30.100 --> 00:45:40.769 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And you don't hear Watson and Crick, who discovered the DNA molecule, you don't hear them talking much about their fact that they did a lot of their research on LSD.
00:45:40.770 --> 00:45:41.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:45:41.270 --> 00:45:48.409 Dr Richard Louis Miller: So in psychedelic wisdom, these people talked openly. So that was book two. First the scientists, then the experience.
00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:50.760 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Then, in Book 3,
00:45:50.990 --> 00:46:02.059 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I did a textbook with some friends, and it's more for the trade, and it's a book of different chapters on the use of psychedelic medicine in therapy.
00:46:02.330 --> 00:46:03.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:08.469 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Then the next book, Was psychedelic medicine at the end of life?
00:46:08.620 --> 00:46:16.359 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because I wanted to get the word out to people in that category suffering from anxiety and depression.
00:46:16.690 --> 00:46:18.159 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That there was hope.
00:46:18.290 --> 00:46:20.520 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That there was something they could do.
00:46:20.550 --> 00:46:36.929 Dr Richard Louis Miller: in order to go out with joy and gladness instead of fear and anxiety. That has been brought on, if I may get in a word, brought on to them by religion, and that's very unfortunate, but that's another whole story you don't want me to get into.
00:46:36.930 --> 00:46:51.370 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And then… so then, most likely the last in the series, now that I've told you the science, now that I've introduced you to people who have taken it for 50 years, now I've given you some tactics for use at the end of life.
00:46:51.370 --> 00:47:00.199 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Now I'm gonna tell you the other side of the story, because you have to hear it. As an honest person, it's my responsibility
00:47:00.230 --> 00:47:04.089 Dr Richard Louis Miller: So you ask why I did it? It's a responsibility.
00:47:04.210 --> 00:47:05.870 Dr Richard Louis Miller: To tell the public.
00:47:06.150 --> 00:47:08.250 Dr Richard Louis Miller: About the adverse effects.
00:47:08.430 --> 00:47:23.589 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And that's… so it was fifth in the series, it was part of an overall plan, but it was also a plan because I felt it was so important for this science to be the opposite of big pharma and be transparent.
00:47:23.830 --> 00:47:24.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:47:24.370 --> 00:47:30.069 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If I do one more in the series, I don't know if I will, but if I do one more.
00:47:30.260 --> 00:47:34.380 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It'll be psychedelics and sexuality.
00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:35.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:47:36.410 --> 00:47:38.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That's what nobody wants to talk about.
00:47:38.420 --> 00:47:40.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes, very country.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.670 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Very few people want to talk about that.
00:47:42.950 --> 00:47:44.269 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Too dangerous.
00:47:44.600 --> 00:47:49.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, I hope you do, because it definitely needs deserves more of a conversation.
00:47:49.690 --> 00:47:51.400 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I, well, I think so.
00:47:51.670 --> 00:47:52.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, exactly.
00:47:52.630 --> 00:47:56.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm I'm curious.
00:47:56.850 --> 00:48:03.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what do you hope the readers of this book are going to get from reading it? Like, what's your intention behind it?
00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:16.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did you hear me?
00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:19.360 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I'd like the readers to come away.
00:48:20.430 --> 00:48:27.899 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Thinking to themselves, I understand what this man is saying.
00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:32.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: about the risk Reward ratio.
00:48:32.810 --> 00:48:36.840 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And I think that's the kind of thing that can help me.
00:48:37.010 --> 00:48:40.010 Dr Richard Louis Miller: In decision making, in my life.
00:48:40.560 --> 00:48:48.849 Dr Richard Louis Miller: To look at things that I'm considering doing, From the perspective of, How am I gonna benefit?
00:48:49.330 --> 00:48:51.480 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And how might I get hurt?
00:48:52.030 --> 00:48:52.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:48:52.680 --> 00:48:58.580 Dr Richard Louis Miller: How am I going to personally benefit from this behavior, whatever it happens to be?
00:48:58.810 --> 00:49:00.930 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And how might I get hurt?
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:05.510 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And when I apply that, for example.
00:49:06.210 --> 00:49:12.079 Dr Richard Louis Miller: to motorcycling, which I used to do, I quit motorcycling.
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:13.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:49:13.130 --> 00:49:16.809 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because the benefit… Did not justify…
00:49:17.060 --> 00:49:19.549 Dr Richard Louis Miller: How I might get hurt again.
00:49:19.810 --> 00:49:21.600 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I've only gotten hurt.
00:49:21.890 --> 00:49:22.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:34.299 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And it's a way of looking. So that's one thing I'd like them to get. A way of looking at the world that they live in, and in terms of the experiences that they take on for themselves.
00:49:34.470 --> 00:49:45.159 Dr Richard Louis Miller: How to make… What to use for decision-making process, and I'm offering one decision-making process, is benefit and pain.
00:49:46.140 --> 00:49:52.680 Dr Richard Louis Miller: and to use that. Another reason or takeaway I'd like them to have is that, hey.
00:49:53.160 --> 00:49:57.049 Dr Richard Louis Miller: There are some honest people in this field of psychedelic science.
00:49:57.230 --> 00:50:00.290 Dr Richard Louis Miller: These are not the same as the big pharma people.
00:50:00.560 --> 00:50:05.170 Dr Richard Louis Miller: This guy's yelling to the rooftops, Tell everything.
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:12.959 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I like that point of view. I'd like them to see that perspective, understand why I'm doing it.
00:50:13.170 --> 00:50:23.859 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And champion it, and say, yes, we need this in everything. We need to know what's in our food, we need to know what's in our water, we need to know what's in our air.
00:50:24.160 --> 00:50:28.899 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Because… Human beings have 3 basic fuels.
00:50:29.590 --> 00:50:30.670 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Here.
00:50:30.830 --> 00:50:33.000 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Water and food.
00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:33.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:50:33.950 --> 00:50:37.060 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And if we don't know what's in the fuel.
00:50:37.230 --> 00:50:42.770 Dr Richard Louis Miller: It's like going with a diesel car to a gasoline station.
00:50:43.130 --> 00:50:45.400 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And not picking diesel.
00:50:45.860 --> 00:50:46.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:50:46.180 --> 00:50:47.270 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Gasoline.
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:52.590 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Or just picking at random. And that's what so many of us do.
00:50:53.300 --> 00:50:59.339 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We don't really pay attention to the extent that's in our own self-interest.
00:51:00.040 --> 00:51:04.769 Dr Richard Louis Miller: To our air, water, and food, our basic fuel.
00:51:05.100 --> 00:51:17.650 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But the basic fuel is essential. As soon as I said, put gasoline in a diesel engine, you knew exactly what I meant. And everybody does. And everybody who drives a car.
00:51:18.270 --> 00:51:20.940 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That uses high octane?
00:51:21.120 --> 00:51:27.080 Dr Richard Louis Miller: They know not to use low octane because the engine will complain.
00:51:27.490 --> 00:51:33.810 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But yet they, that same person, who will make certain to get high octane for their truck.
00:51:34.170 --> 00:51:42.440 Dr Richard Louis Miller: We'll go eat some junk food, they have no idea what they're eating, and then they'll drink a bottle of liquid.
00:51:42.570 --> 00:51:50.589 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And you read the ingredients and there's 26 things in there that you can't even understand what they are in that drink.
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:51.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:51:51.470 --> 00:52:01.010 Dr Richard Louis Miller: You say, oh, but it only has a few calories, so it must be OK. Bologna, you're drinking all those little names that you don't know.
00:52:01.160 --> 00:52:06.770 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And you're spending money on it, right? So, air… Water.
00:52:07.630 --> 00:52:11.150 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And food, the three essentials for our fuel.
00:52:11.350 --> 00:52:19.829 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And they can get that from my book, because they can raise their awareness Using the psychedelic.
00:52:20.550 --> 00:52:31.220 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Medicine awareness, am I going to do it or am I not, they can apply that same kind of thinking to other things that they take into their body.
00:52:31.220 --> 00:52:31.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:52:31.830 --> 00:52:36.059 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Fame. How does it benefit me? How's it going to hurt me?
00:52:36.490 --> 00:52:45.360 Dr Richard Louis Miller: My rule of thumb is, you open a… look at a label on something you're gonna eat, and if there are a bunch of words you don't understand, that's a message not to eat it.
00:52:45.670 --> 00:52:50.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, exactly, exactly. If you can't pronounce what's in your food, don't eat it.
00:52:50.810 --> 00:52:59.689 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Don't eat it. If you can't… right. If you can't pronounce it, don't eat it, right? Celery… and broccoli doesn't advertise on television. Right.
00:52:59.690 --> 00:53:00.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right.
00:53:00.580 --> 00:53:01.040 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Right.
00:53:01.070 --> 00:53:04.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So one last question before we close out the show.
00:53:04.580 --> 00:53:07.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, if someone's listening to this interview.
00:53:07.950 --> 00:53:13.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: recording, and it could be today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year.
00:53:13.460 --> 00:53:19.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And they're curious, they've heard their friends talk about doing something with psychedelics, and they…
00:53:19.670 --> 00:53:34.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: they don't know where to start, where to do. What would you recommend to them in order to be able to avoid… and you may not be able to 100% avoid adverse effects, but to give them the most likelihood to avoid the adverse effects?
00:53:35.950 --> 00:53:39.179 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If somebody is considering for the first time.
00:53:39.950 --> 00:53:47.909 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I think one of the first things I would do, is, contact the local…
00:53:48.010 --> 00:53:52.840 Dr Richard Louis Miller: psychedelic society. They're all over the United States.
00:53:53.040 --> 00:53:53.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:53:53.950 --> 00:53:55.349 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And talk to them.
00:53:55.610 --> 00:54:03.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Just call them on the phone, make friends, say, hey, I'm thinking about taking psychedelics, I'd like to learn more from you, what do you have to tell me?
00:54:03.950 --> 00:54:05.769 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I call them on the phone.
00:54:06.080 --> 00:54:10.709 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I would definitely… Do some research on the internet.
00:54:11.350 --> 00:54:11.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:54:11.870 --> 00:54:13.540 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And I would start.
00:54:13.690 --> 00:54:15.469 Dr Richard Louis Miller: With looking at maps.
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:19.490 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies.
00:54:19.930 --> 00:54:21.450 Dr Richard Louis Miller: I would look at maps.
00:54:21.650 --> 00:54:26.690 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And… I would start by reading a few books.
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:27.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:54:27.710 --> 00:54:36.329 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And really, you know, pick out some books on the particular medicine that you're thinking of taking, and learn something about it.
00:54:37.110 --> 00:54:43.400 Dr Richard Louis Miller: And of course, listening to shows like yours. But you wanna… the basic message here is.
00:54:43.970 --> 00:54:46.899 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Get a bunch of information first.
00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:56.380 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Get some information first. And of course you talk to your friends, and talk to trusted elders, and people you know.
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:05.709 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But if you're doing it, For therapeutic reasons, Or mind expansion reasons.
00:55:07.050 --> 00:55:10.860 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Not for… Recreation.
00:55:11.230 --> 00:55:13.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right, not for escapism.
00:55:13.770 --> 00:55:22.940 Dr Richard Louis Miller: If you're doing it for for therapeutic or expansion of creativity, you want to do some research if you're doing it for recreation.
00:55:23.060 --> 00:55:32.040 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That's another whole category that we haven't even talked about. The adverse effects, of course, still apply, because the medicine is the medicine.
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:36.870 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But then you're going into another whole area.
00:55:38.080 --> 00:55:45.380 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Having to do with where you take it because when you take this medicine as medicine for therapy.
00:55:45.490 --> 00:55:50.689 Dr Richard Louis Miller: You need a place that's extremely quiet and extremely safe.
00:55:51.910 --> 00:56:02.430 Dr Richard Louis Miller: and we are not going to get intruded on, where you can be by yourself or with your guide for the whole time. When you take it recreationally, you might go to a rock concert, you got, like.
00:56:02.430 --> 00:56:02.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:56:02.780 --> 00:56:12.550 Dr Richard Louis Miller: people around you. It's a total different experience, and it requires a whole different way of relating to the medicine that I'm not going to go into.
00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:13.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:56:14.030 --> 00:56:19.689 Dr Richard Louis Miller: position against such recreational use in any way, I'm not.
00:56:20.140 --> 00:56:24.179 Dr Richard Louis Miller: But I am saying, it's a whole area in and of itself.
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:26.869 Dr Richard Louis Miller: That's separate from this other area.
00:56:27.080 --> 00:56:27.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:56:28.050 --> 00:56:28.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:42.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, Doctor Miller, I really want to thank you for your work and for what you do and for taking the time to come on the show today. I really appreciate your voice and I appreciate your perspective on things, so thank you.
00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:46.730 Dr Richard Louis Miller: You're welcome. I'm going to get in two last things before I go, Michael.
00:56:47.190 --> 00:56:48.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:52.519 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Two things that are essential if you're thinking of doing these medicines.
00:56:53.620 --> 00:56:55.359 Dr Richard Louis Miller: The medicine itself.
00:56:55.740 --> 00:57:03.020 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Where'd it come from? How clean is it? Are you 100% sure of it? If you're not 100% sure of it.
00:57:03.470 --> 00:57:05.090 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Think about your truck.
00:57:05.790 --> 00:57:09.049 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Are you gonna put something into the tank you're not sure of?
00:57:09.640 --> 00:57:11.060 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Number 2.
00:57:11.370 --> 00:57:13.420 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Who are you taking it with?
00:57:13.680 --> 00:57:15.460 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Critical issue.
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:22.549 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Critical issue. Whether it's a guide you're paying or a friend, it's a critical issue.
00:57:22.750 --> 00:57:23.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:57:23.490 --> 00:57:28.639 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Not all guides are made in heaven, some of them are scammers, some of them are fantastic.
00:57:28.950 --> 00:57:33.780 Dr Richard Louis Miller: Two issues, the medicine and the guide. Thanks for letting me get that in.
00:57:33.780 --> 00:57:48.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You got it, you got it, Dr. Miller. Thank you. Again, the book is, The Adverse Effects and Therapeutic Potential of Psychedelic Medicines. It's out now, available wherever you like to buy your books.
00:57:48.240 --> 00:57:52.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you so much, Dr. Miller. Take care and have a good day.
00:57:53.110 --> 00:57:58.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show.
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:20.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio.nyc and on your favorite podcasting app, Apple, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio, Amazon, wherever you love to listen to podcasts, you can hear the conscious consultant hour. Thank you all for tuning in. Take care. We will talk to you all next week.
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