EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Rachel S. Heslin, author, speaker, and student of the psychology of identity and human experience for more than four decades.
Rachel is the author of Navigating Life: 8 Different Strategies to Guide Your Way and Rituals of Release: How to Make Room for Your New Life, both available in multiple languages. Her TEDx talk, "A Defense of Victim Mentality," turns condemnation into compassion in just six minutes, and hints at the kind of thinking she brings to territory most of us prefer to avoid. This month brings the release of her newest work, Hearts Are Meant to Be Broken: A New Approach to Grief, a book that could not be arriving at a more needed moment.
Rachel's exploration of grief did not come from theory. It came from paying close attention to what happens in a life when loss, of any kind, is not given room to move through us. In her new book, she pushes back on the tidy stages and cultural timelines we have inherited, and offers instead an approach that honors grief as something we are meant to feel deeply rather than manage efficiently. Her title carries the whole thesis: hearts are meant to be broken, not as damage, but as opening. Loss, when met rather than avoided, can crack us into a wider, more honest, more tender version of ourselves.
Together, Sam and Rachel explore why our current cultural approach to grief has left so many people quietly disconnected from their own hearts, and what becomes possible when we let loss teach us instead of trying to move past it. They discuss why this conversation matters more now than perhaps ever, in a world carrying so much collective and personal loss, and how a different relationship with grief can shift not only our healing but our capacity to love. This episode is an invitation to soften around what has broken you, to trust that the heart knows how to grieve when we finally let it, and to consider that what breaks us open may be what allows us to become whole.
Tune in and share your own questions and comments about grief on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
www.thefullnessofyourpower.com
This episode opens with Sam's reflection on why sharing our true feelings feels so risky, reminding listeners that the courage to speak our truth—regardless of how it's received—is itself an act of authenticity that opens the door for deeper connection with others. He then welcomes Rachel Heslin, author and longtime student of identity and human experience, who discusses how her TEDx talk reframes victim mentality with compassion, showing that seeing oneself as a victim can sometimes be more empowering than believing one deserved to suffer, and that real growth comes from understanding the fears beneath that mindset rather than judging it. The conversation moves into the origins of her new book, Hearts Are Meant to Be Broken, sparked by the sudden loss of a shaman she'd only briefly met, which taught her that grief can arise not just from losing a person but from losing an imagined future—an insight Sam echoes through his own experience of unexpected grief after a loss touched by suicide.
In this closing segment, Rachel shares how her book took shape through years of research before deepening profoundly after her husband's sudden death, revealing what she calls the difference between cognitive grief (the stories, regrets, and "shouldas") and somatic grief (the wave-like, unrationalizable feeling that moves through the body). She introduces her "Agency Framework"—acknowledging feelings, examining thoughts, and taking responsibility for actions—as a way to gently separate grief's tangled threads, illustrating it through her own reconciliation with a complicated but deeply loving marriage that ended just as it was healing. The conversation closes with a broader, hopeful reflection: that all loss, whether personal or collective, stems from grieving an "assumptive future," and that by staying open and connecting through shared humanity, we can transform even collective catastrophe into a more compassionate, generative future—turning the tiles of broken dreams into a new mosaic.
00:00:45.740 --> 00:00:46.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:00:47.170 --> 00:00:53.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators! Good morning, good evening, wherever you're tuning in from.
00:00:53.480 --> 00:00:58.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity.
00:00:58.540 --> 00:01:18.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I am very, very pleased that you're all here with me today. We have another important show in store for you today with a wonderful guest who's also a friend, and I look forward to bringing her on in just a moment for actually a really important conversation.
00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:23.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But first, of course, we have my blog post from a couple of years ago.
00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:30.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And this one, I think is rather an important one, and this blog post is entitled…
00:01:31.940 --> 00:01:37.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sharing our feelings can be the scariest thing we do.
00:01:38.770 --> 00:01:42.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Being honest with someone is not always easy.
00:01:42.630 --> 00:01:45.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Especially when it comes to our feelings.
00:01:46.490 --> 00:01:50.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sharing how we feel can be scary.
00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:54.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That fear can stop us from opening up.
00:01:55.340 --> 00:01:58.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: From saying what we truly feel.
00:01:58.220 --> 00:02:00.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And from being authentic.
00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:08.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To share with someone how we feel about them opens us up to many possibilities.
00:02:08.590 --> 00:02:12.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Like being rejected, or being ridiculed.
00:02:12.630 --> 00:02:16.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe even being taken advantage of.
00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:21.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And there is the very real possibility…
00:02:21.550 --> 00:02:26.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Excuse me. Of what we say being used against us.
00:02:28.380 --> 00:02:32.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: These are all very real and reasonable outcomes.
00:02:32.590 --> 00:02:35.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So we are right to be scared to open up.
00:02:36.210 --> 00:02:38.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To tell someone how we really feel.
00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:45.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For we do not know how it is going to be received, or responded to.
00:02:46.640 --> 00:02:52.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: On the other hand, there are also many other positive possibilities.
00:02:53.020 --> 00:02:56.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Such as the other person responding in kind.
00:02:57.340 --> 00:03:01.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Finding out they like us as much as we like them.
00:03:01.540 --> 00:03:06.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or that they appreciate us as much as we appreciate them.
00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:11.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can give us a chance to deepen the relationship.
00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:14.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Even start a new one.
00:03:15.090 --> 00:03:21.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There are so many potential outcomes that we cannot even imagine.
00:03:22.480 --> 00:03:24.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what are we to do?
00:03:24.860 --> 00:03:26.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is it worth the risk?
00:03:27.820 --> 00:03:29.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes it is.
00:03:30.190 --> 00:03:32.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes it is not.
00:03:32.730 --> 00:03:34.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One thing is for certain.
00:03:35.100 --> 00:03:39.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we do not share how we feel, we will never know.
00:03:40.610 --> 00:03:45.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Perhaps the most important thing about sharing how we feel.
00:03:45.970 --> 00:03:48.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Even when it scares us.
00:03:48.690 --> 00:03:51.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is the act of sharing itself.
00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:57.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of showing the universe that we are open to what may come as a result.
00:03:57.950 --> 00:04:03.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe being authentic and real is its own reward.
00:04:03.970 --> 00:04:11.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For the more we share how we feel when we are uncertain of how the other person will respond.
00:04:11.270 --> 00:04:14.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The more courage we build up to share.
00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:17.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And one thing is for sure.
00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:24.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The more we share, the more likely we are to eventually find the outcome we desire.
00:04:26.030 --> 00:04:31.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or unexpected outcomes that are even better than we could have imagined.
00:04:32.410 --> 00:04:40.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The key is that we do not know what the future holds for us, and what the other person is truly feeling.
00:04:41.260 --> 00:04:43.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Once we open up to them.
00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:47.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We make it safe for them to open up to us.
00:04:48.970 --> 00:04:54.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Imagine what a world we would live in if everyone did that.
00:04:56.310 --> 00:05:02.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So… I wrote this blog post a couple of years ago after working with a client.
00:05:04.290 --> 00:05:12.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And this client, he was a little, he was a little,
00:05:13.970 --> 00:05:16.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hurt, he was a little sad.
00:05:16.450 --> 00:05:27.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because he had finally built up the courage to share with a friend of his, a woman he had known for a while.
00:05:27.110 --> 00:05:39.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who he felt a really strong connection with, felt they really got along well, and he finally shared with her that, you know, he'd really like to have something more.
00:05:39.590 --> 00:05:44.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… and… Unfortunately, she did not feel the same way.
00:05:45.040 --> 00:06:02.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so he was like, oh my god, why did I do this? You know, now she doesn't, you know, act the same way to me, you know, and was it worth it? And, you know, all these thoughts running around his head. And so we worked together.
00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:13.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And… in working with him, what I came to realize is That actually…
00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:18.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How someone else responds when we share something.
00:06:18.830 --> 00:06:35.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And look, this doesn't have to be about sharing something with someone who you want to be intimate with. It could be sharing something with a family member. It could be sharing something with a coworker. It could be sharing something with a colleague or just a friend.
00:06:38.970 --> 00:06:43.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But what gets us in trouble is the attachment to how we want them to respond.
00:06:49.220 --> 00:06:54.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet, when we… Practice sharing.
00:06:55.380 --> 00:06:56.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Her true feelings.
00:06:57.030 --> 00:06:59.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sharing what's going on inside of us.
00:07:00.310 --> 00:07:02.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With another human being.
00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:12.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that that act of sharing is actually sometimes the most important thing we can do.
00:07:12.770 --> 00:07:22.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That it's not about how the other person responds. It's not about whether they agree with us or not, or disagree with us. It's not about them seeing the world the same way.
00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:26.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's not even about them liking us or not.
00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:31.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's really about us owning our truth.
00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:36.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And having the courage to share that truth with another human being.
00:07:37.090 --> 00:07:38.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now look.
00:07:38.570 --> 00:07:41.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I get it. This is not easy.
00:07:41.510 --> 00:07:50.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: doesn't feel good when we share our feelings with someone, and they don't feel the same way. I'm there with you, I totally get it, I've experienced that myself.
00:07:56.060 --> 00:08:03.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And at the same time, the more we shy away from sharing because we're afraid of that outcome.
00:08:05.140 --> 00:08:14.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because… You know, the thought of them not responding the way we would want them to respond.
00:08:15.090 --> 00:08:23.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is too great a risk for us. I get that. I totally get that.
00:08:26.760 --> 00:08:29.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But then what kind of life are we leading?
00:08:30.470 --> 00:08:31.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:08:32.020 --> 00:08:38.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then if we start… Falling into that habit of not sharing.
00:08:38.850 --> 00:08:40.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How we feel with someone.
00:08:41.070 --> 00:08:45.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What kind of example are we setting? What kind of,
00:08:45.420 --> 00:08:49.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What energy are we cultivating within ourselves?
00:08:53.010 --> 00:08:59.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, so… You know, it just…
00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:12.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, when I was working with this person, I just, my heart went out to him. I really understand how he felt.
00:09:13.930 --> 00:09:16.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And at the same time.
00:09:19.390 --> 00:09:24.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I still… I still believe that.
00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:28.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Share taking the risk.
00:09:31.270 --> 00:09:42.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And sharing how we feel with another human being, how we truly feel, those… the things we're really afraid to say, practicing saying those things.
00:09:42.450 --> 00:09:44.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It actually…
00:09:45.150 --> 00:09:52.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In the end, even if the response is not the one we want, and even if it stings, and we go ouch.
00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:57.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's still one of the most important things that we can do.
00:10:01.430 --> 00:10:06.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now… This does not mean that we have to share everything with everybody.
00:10:07.910 --> 00:10:11.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I do believe that we need to practice discernment.
00:10:12.110 --> 00:10:17.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But not… Everybody deserves our truth, in a way.
00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:25.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's knowing what's appropriate and what's the right thing to share with the right person.
00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But that kind of wisdom comes with practice.
00:10:32.680 --> 00:10:38.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so maybe sometimes we overshare. I'm totally guilty of that.
00:10:40.430 --> 00:10:46.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But over time, we get to learn who's safe to share what with.
00:10:50.760 --> 00:11:00.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, yeah, you don't have to share everything with your best friend or your partner or your coworker or your sibling or your parent.
00:11:02.570 --> 00:11:05.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You share what's appropriate to share with them.
00:11:08.260 --> 00:11:11.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then notice how they respond.
00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:16.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And notice if they happen to start sharing more with you.
00:11:17.670 --> 00:11:25.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because ultimately, that's what this practice is for. It's just getting us to talk to each other more.
00:11:27.060 --> 00:11:30.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because I guarantee you, there are people in your life
00:11:32.430 --> 00:11:36.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do you feel a certain way about certain things that they have not told you about?
00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:40.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you have no clue that that's the way they feel.
00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:46.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And when you're the one who's brave enough.
00:11:46.590 --> 00:11:51.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To step forward and share something very deep and personal yourself first.
00:11:52.280 --> 00:11:58.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just might open them up to sharing something that they've been afraid to share with you.
00:11:59.180 --> 00:12:02.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you might be really, really surprised…
00:12:03.140 --> 00:12:05.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: At the outcome of all of that.
00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:16.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, that's my blog post for this week. The title, again, is Sharing Our Feelings Can Be the Scariest Thing We Do.
00:12:16.900 --> 00:12:30.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course, you can always find my blog post on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com, as well as on the station's website at talkradio.nyc slash blog.
00:12:31.580 --> 00:12:37.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. Now, it is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show.
00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:50.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Rachel Heslin, author, speaker, and student of the psychology of identity and human experience for more than four decades. Rachel is the author of Navigating Life.
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:58.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 8 different strategies to guide your way, and rituals of release, how to make room for your new life.
00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:17.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Both available in multiple languages. Her TEDx talk, A Defense of Victim Mentality, I love that, turns condemnation into compassion in just 6 minutes, and hints at the kind of thinking she brings to the territory most of us prefer to avoid.
00:13:18.010 --> 00:13:21.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This month brings the release… it's still this month, right?
00:13:21.920 --> 00:13:25.179 Rachel S. Heslin: Yes, it's a it's available for pre order at the moment.
00:13:25.180 --> 00:13:27.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right, her newest book.
00:13:27.630 --> 00:13:36.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hearts Are Meant to Be Broken, A New Approach to Grief, a book that could not be arriving at a more needed moment in time.
00:13:36.950 --> 00:14:01.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Rachel's exploration of grief did not come from theory. It came from paying close attention to what happens in a life when loss of any kind is not given room to move through us. In her new book, she pushes back on the tidy stages and cultural timelines we have inherited and offers instead an approach that honors grief as something
00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:07.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We are meant to feel deeply rather than manage efficiently.
00:14:07.290 --> 00:14:15.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Her title carries the whole thesis. Hearts are meant to be broken. Not as damage, but as opening.
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:28.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Loss, when met rather than avoided, can crack us into a wider, more honest, more tender version of ourselves. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Rachel.
00:14:29.430 --> 00:14:32.270 Rachel S. Heslin: Thank you. That was a wonderful introduction.
00:14:32.270 --> 00:14:35.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, I agree.
00:14:36.110 --> 00:14:40.599 Rachel S. Heslin: I just. I actually wanted to start by.
00:14:40.770 --> 00:14:43.599 Rachel S. Heslin: Responding to your blog post that you shared.
00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:44.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sure.
00:14:44.150 --> 00:14:59.910 Rachel S. Heslin: Because when you and I first met, I went through something very similar to that, where I had been hiding something for a very long time because I was afraid of how other people would react to it.
00:15:00.180 --> 00:15:00.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:11.990 Rachel S. Heslin: And I realized how much of my energy had been blocked, had been used to hide.
00:15:12.260 --> 00:15:13.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:15:13.090 --> 00:15:15.999 Rachel S. Heslin: At the point that I stood up and said, hey.
00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:19.059 Rachel S. Heslin: This is what's really going on inside me.
00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:21.130 Rachel S. Heslin: This is what I'm afraid of.
00:15:21.230 --> 00:15:23.250 Rachel S. Heslin: This is what I hope for.
00:15:23.410 --> 00:15:33.049 Rachel S. Heslin: and allowed myself that vulnerable expression. It was such a relief to let go of pretending.
00:15:33.410 --> 00:15:34.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:15:34.770 --> 00:15:39.120 Rachel S. Heslin: And it was It was wonderful. So it's such an important.
00:15:39.660 --> 00:15:40.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:41.159 Rachel S. Heslin: to look at.
00:15:41.160 --> 00:15:42.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful.
00:15:42.520 --> 00:15:43.740 Rachel S. Heslin: Thank you for bringing it up.
00:15:44.490 --> 00:15:54.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, I'm curious, what kind of got you started on this path of being an author, a speaker, of, of, of, of, sort of.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:06.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: taking, normal concepts and sort of turning them on their head, and I'm definitely going to ask you about your TEDx talk, but, what got you started on this path?
00:16:07.030 --> 00:16:07.720 Rachel S. Heslin: Well.
00:16:08.330 --> 00:16:14.319 Rachel S. Heslin: I blame my father. He's a clinical psychologist.
00:16:14.890 --> 00:16:19.270 Rachel S. Heslin: And part of his learning, Strategy.
00:16:19.410 --> 00:16:23.719 Rachel S. Heslin: Was when he would learn something, he would come home and teach me.
00:16:24.410 --> 00:16:24.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:16:24.870 --> 00:16:31.280 Rachel S. Heslin: This meant that I was introduced to neuro-linguistic programming concepts when I was 9.
00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:32.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:16:32.430 --> 00:16:39.229 Rachel S. Heslin: So when I say it's been over four decades, yes, I am older than I look, but I did also start very young.
00:16:39.370 --> 00:16:40.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:16:41.090 --> 00:16:47.309 Rachel S. Heslin: In addition to looking at the world a little bit differently because of that.
00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:54.759 Rachel S. Heslin: Because it was so young, it created a platform on which everything else kind of was built around.
00:16:56.710 --> 00:16:58.409 Rachel S. Heslin: I'm very curious.
00:16:59.550 --> 00:17:02.720 Rachel S. Heslin: And I want to know, why is it
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:09.299 Rachel S. Heslin: That two people can be in exactly the same situation and respond completely differently.
00:17:09.300 --> 00:17:09.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:17:10.260 --> 00:17:11.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:17:11.089 --> 00:17:16.349 Rachel S. Heslin: Why do I do things that I don't wanna do?
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:17.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:27.130 Rachel S. Heslin: Whether that's caving into other people and don't wanna say no 'cause of whatever reasons, or…
00:17:27.329 --> 00:17:31.530 Rachel S. Heslin: Why is there something that I want to do?
00:17:32.020 --> 00:17:37.190 Rachel S. Heslin: But I watch myself do things that look like they're self-sabotaging.
00:17:38.830 --> 00:17:43.549 Rachel S. Heslin: So that those. I'm more interested in questions than answers.
00:17:44.350 --> 00:17:52.250 Rachel S. Heslin: Because I think that… Really good questions can spark ideas.
00:17:52.550 --> 00:17:52.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:54.959 Rachel S. Heslin: that create new questions.
00:17:55.300 --> 00:17:58.230 Rachel S. Heslin: And I believe life is supposed to be an exploration.
00:17:58.610 --> 00:17:59.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:17:59.070 --> 00:18:01.240 Rachel S. Heslin: It's a learning experience.
00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:02.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:18:02.340 --> 00:18:16.729 Rachel S. Heslin: I do have certain premises that I work from. One of them is, as we are having this human experience, it is not possible for us to fully comprehend capital T truth.
00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:18.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just too close.
00:18:18.350 --> 00:18:21.829 Rachel S. Heslin: complex. There are too many factors involved.
00:18:22.110 --> 00:18:22.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:28.710 Rachel S. Heslin: Therefore, I try to create models.
00:18:29.230 --> 00:18:32.529 Rachel S. Heslin: That are consistent with my observations.
00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:34.940 Rachel S. Heslin: and they're useful.
00:18:35.810 --> 00:18:39.340 Rachel S. Heslin: By useful, I mean, do they get me where I want to go?
00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:46.449 Rachel S. Heslin: I mean, I'm a big fan of the idea that all models are wrong, but some of them are useful.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:47.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:18:47.800 --> 00:18:53.230 Rachel S. Heslin: And the corollary to that is that at the point that
00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.449 Rachel S. Heslin: A model conflicts with lived experience?
00:18:57.910 --> 00:18:59.409 Rachel S. Heslin: It's a lot less useful.
00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:00.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:01.389 Rachel S. Heslin: It doesn't work.
00:19:01.610 --> 00:19:04.560 Rachel S. Heslin: Right. So what can you do to shift it?
00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:05.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:19:07.100 --> 00:19:11.660 Rachel S. Heslin: Now, one of the things that I got from my dad
00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:23.969 Rachel S. Heslin: was a premise that he got from one of his mentors, a guy by the name of Milton Erickson, who some people consider the…
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.380 Rachel S. Heslin: Like the father of hypnotherapy.
00:19:26.620 --> 00:19:27.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:35.690 Rachel S. Heslin: And the idea is that everything we do comes from a positive intention.
00:19:36.270 --> 00:19:36.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:41.679 Rachel S. Heslin: And that we do have everything we need within us.
00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:45.800 Rachel S. Heslin: To have… Magnificent lives!
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:51.019 Rachel S. Heslin: But sometimes we can't access those resources.
00:19:51.230 --> 00:19:59.520 Rachel S. Heslin: And sometimes those positive intentions come up with maybe not so positive results.
00:19:59.950 --> 00:20:05.060 Rachel S. Heslin: Because… Of the stories we tell ourselves.
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:08.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, and the meaning we make from those stories.
00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:09.800 Rachel S. Heslin: Exactly.
00:20:10.290 --> 00:20:13.280 Rachel S. Heslin: So, a lot of my work
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:25.649 Rachel S. Heslin: has been, as I have navigated my own life, looking at stories. What are the stories I want to tell? What are the stories that I don't even realize are stories?
00:20:25.860 --> 00:20:30.270 Rachel S. Heslin: What is the water that I'm swimming in that I don't even recognize?
00:20:30.530 --> 00:20:35.820 Rachel S. Heslin: And how can I become more aware of the limitations I've been placing on myself?
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:36.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm…
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:42.450 Rachel S. Heslin: As I go through this, I document…
00:20:42.620 --> 00:20:50.320 Rachel S. Heslin: My observations and my experience, and that is where the books and the speaking come from.
00:20:50.780 --> 00:20:58.950 Rachel S. Heslin: Because even though we each have our own experience, and I know that what I'm going through is not going to apply to everybody.
00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:13.129 Rachel S. Heslin: I also know that I have a proof of concept of one. It worked for me. So if it worked for me, there is a chance there's at least one other person out there.
00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:16.600 Rachel S. Heslin: That this would also be useful.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.119 Rachel S. Heslin: In helping them navigate their own life.
00:21:22.320 --> 00:21:23.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So,
00:21:23.670 --> 00:21:35.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I want to… I want to get into the… your new book about hearts are meant to be broken, but before we do that, I'm really, really curious about your TEDx talk, Defense of Victim Mentality.
00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:49.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because most people are, like, you know, doing everything and anything to get someone out of quote-unquote victim mentality. So, the title has me very curious, and I would love to just touch upon that before we get into grief.
00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:54.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, so what do you mean by, like, defending victim mentality?
00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:59.430 Rachel S. Heslin: This is actually a perfect example of
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.489 Rachel S. Heslin: Having the premise that everything has a positive intent.
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:12.500 Rachel S. Heslin: Where it came from is looking at victim mentality and trying to figure out
00:22:12.750 --> 00:22:19.459 Rachel S. Heslin: Under what circumstances might it be considered beneficial?
00:22:20.020 --> 00:22:32.969 Rachel S. Heslin: And that's what I talk about in my talk. First of all, I go through and explain, if someone grows up in these circumstances, it is understandable that they would see themselves as a victim.
00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:36.429 Rachel S. Heslin: Whether there's a lot of chaos,
00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:38.839 Rachel S. Heslin: They're not sure what's happening.
00:22:39.080 --> 00:22:43.530 Rachel S. Heslin: That's how they learned how the world works, so it makes sense.
00:22:43.770 --> 00:22:51.150 Rachel S. Heslin: Then I went from there, it's like, and then… Where might it be useful?
00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:54.999 Rachel S. Heslin: Do you want me to give away the spoiler or do you want to make people go watch.
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:55.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:22:55.520 --> 00:23:12.669 Rachel S. Heslin: Well, it's basically, I mean, it's only six minutes long. You could go watch and see how I get through it. But the example I came up with is if somebody has something terrible happen to them, especially if they're really young when it happens.
00:23:13.060 --> 00:23:20.870 Rachel S. Heslin: They may think that they have a choice. Either… They… Are a victim.
00:23:21.010 --> 00:23:26.230 Rachel S. Heslin: Or… They deserved to have something awful happen to them.
00:23:30.080 --> 00:23:35.479 Rachel S. Heslin: When you think you only have those two choices.
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:36.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.579 Rachel S. Heslin: Understanding a situation.
00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:42.090 Rachel S. Heslin: Seeing yourself as a victim.
00:23:42.190 --> 00:23:49.630 Rachel S. Heslin: is actually more empowering Than believing that you deserve to have awful stuff happen to you.
00:23:50.070 --> 00:23:53.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha, gotcha. Interesting, interesting.
00:23:53.580 --> 00:23:58.929 Rachel S. Heslin: And to give it context, This is part of a mosaic.
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:04.740 Rachel S. Heslin: It's not, oh, well, therefore, it's okay to see yourself as a victim.
00:24:04.850 --> 00:24:21.569 Rachel S. Heslin: It is, this is an important piece of information to be taken into consideration. If you truly want to help someone grow beyond a victim mentality, you first need to know.
00:24:22.050 --> 00:24:23.760 Rachel S. Heslin: What their fears are?
00:24:24.070 --> 00:24:24.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What are they?
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:30.059 Rachel S. Heslin: trying to accomplish by clinging to their victimhood?
00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:35.000 Rachel S. Heslin: And how can you work with them to move through it?
00:24:35.270 --> 00:24:35.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm…
00:24:35.890 --> 00:24:43.500 Rachel S. Heslin: It's kind of like addictions. You can say, yes, you're drinking yourself to death, you shouldn't do that.
00:24:44.020 --> 00:24:48.220 Rachel S. Heslin: But if you don't address the reason why
00:24:48.430 --> 00:24:54.189 Rachel S. Heslin: They started using alcohol as a coping mechanism or a tool.
00:24:54.890 --> 00:24:59.709 Rachel S. Heslin: Then, it's not as easy to get them to move through and beyond it.
00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right.
00:25:01.760 --> 00:25:06.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What I like about that perspective is it's a much more compassionate view.
00:25:07.580 --> 00:25:22.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why people develop that kind of attitude, and that, as opposed to judging people and making them wrong for feeling that they're a victim, it's having compassion and understanding why they might have.
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. Falling into that trap. So thank you.
00:25:26.750 --> 00:25:27.100 Rachel S. Heslin: My.
00:25:27.100 --> 00:25:27.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Beautiful.
00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:40.809 Rachel S. Heslin: My absolute favorite part of having given that talk is the comments that are on it and the number of people who are saying things like.
00:25:41.900 --> 00:25:44.420 Rachel S. Heslin: This totally makes sense.
00:25:44.860 --> 00:25:47.749 Rachel S. Heslin: I'm seeing myself in a new light.
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:55.939 Rachel S. Heslin: Or the people who are saying, I used to be really mean to people who see themselves as victims, and this is changing how I look at it.
00:25:56.080 --> 00:25:56.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:25:59.669 Rachel S. Heslin: And right there, it's like, it was worth it. That's.
00:25:59.670 --> 00:26:00.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The…
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.530 Rachel S. Heslin: It's so satisfying.
00:26:02.950 --> 00:26:06.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
00:26:06.780 --> 00:26:25.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right, we've got a few minutes before our break. I would like to just get into or at least touch upon your new book coming out, Hearts Are Meant to Be Broken. What was the spark of inspiration that got you to decide to write a book around grief?
00:26:26.140 --> 00:26:29.480 Rachel S. Heslin: Well, the first one actually happened over 10 years ago.
00:26:29.590 --> 00:26:32.940 Rachel S. Heslin: And again, it was that curiosity thing.
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:33.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:26:33.950 --> 00:26:38.960 Rachel S. Heslin: I had met someone who was this amazing shaman and musician.
00:26:39.150 --> 00:26:52.910 Rachel S. Heslin: And I discovered that he actually lived very close to my parents, and he had done a concert, and I was really looking forward to taking my parents and my husband to go see him and meet him.
00:26:53.190 --> 00:26:55.930 Rachel S. Heslin: And then he was killed.
00:26:58.290 --> 00:27:02.989 Rachel S. Heslin: It was… Shocking. It was out of the blue.
00:27:04.030 --> 00:27:08.640 Rachel S. Heslin: He was… On a pilgrimage in Egypt.
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:17.579 Rachel S. Heslin: And he and his traveling companions were in a van that was mistaken by the Egyptian government as belonging to rebels.
00:27:21.070 --> 00:27:25.699 Rachel S. Heslin: And I was both devastated, and confused.
00:27:26.120 --> 00:27:26.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:27:26.860 --> 00:27:32.889 Rachel S. Heslin: I had only met him once. Why was I so upset?
00:27:33.900 --> 00:27:41.749 Rachel S. Heslin: over somebody that I didn't even know. It was like, not only did I feel like I didn't have a reason, it was almost like I didn't have a right to grieve.
00:27:42.010 --> 00:27:42.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:27:43.070 --> 00:27:49.079 Rachel S. Heslin: And I got curious and realized, what I was actually grieving.
00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:54.229 Rachel S. Heslin: Was… The future I thought we would have together.
00:27:54.670 --> 00:27:56.169 Rachel S. Heslin: That wasn't going to happen.
00:27:56.600 --> 00:27:57.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:27:57.570 --> 00:27:58.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:27:58.280 --> 00:28:00.430 Rachel S. Heslin: Though that was the start of it.
00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:02.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wow.
00:28:02.820 --> 00:28:04.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's quite a…
00:28:05.540 --> 00:28:13.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oof, that's quite a powerful start to it, and I can totally relate, because I know not that long ago, someone I knew
00:28:13.870 --> 00:28:15.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Committed suicide.
00:28:16.110 --> 00:28:25.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I knew her, but I didn't really know her that well. There are other people I know who knew her much better than I did, but it also brought up a lot of…
00:28:26.270 --> 00:28:29.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Grief and anger and sadness for me.
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:38.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it wasn't about… It wasn't just about her taking her own life.
00:28:38.790 --> 00:28:57.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it was also what it triggered in me and the memories I have of things that happened to me and friends I'd known before who committed suicide and how the energy around suicide, how that affected many people I know. So it brought up a lot within me.
00:28:57.360 --> 00:29:02.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That was only partially related to her taking her life.
00:29:02.670 --> 00:29:17.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So it's interesting how, when these things happen, when we encounter these very extreme emotional situations, that sometimes our reaction doesn't make sense.
00:29:17.330 --> 00:29:26.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in the moment, But when we actually sit with it and and give it some time and some breath.
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:34.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That the truth of why we're having such a strong reaction can actually come to us, and then things start to make more sense.
00:29:35.600 --> 00:29:36.070 Rachel S. Heslin: Yeah, I.
00:29:36.330 --> 00:29:51.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. So, let's take a quick break. When we come back, let's get into what do you mean by hearts are meant to be broken, and let's talk about this new approach to grief, okay?
00:29:52.040 --> 00:29:52.950 Rachel S. Heslin: Excellent.
00:29:52.950 --> 00:29:59.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity.
00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:05.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We do this every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1 p.m. Eastern Time, live.
00:30:05.830 --> 00:30:16.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: right here on talkradio.nyc and all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest, Rachel Heslin, in just a moment.
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:36.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Rachel, you, you, you had this experience that you felt this.
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:42.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: grief, this loss… For someone who you didn't even know that well.
00:31:43.130 --> 00:31:48.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How did that help you create this new approach towards grief?
00:31:49.990 --> 00:32:05.630 Rachel S. Heslin: It wasn't a linear journey. I did a lot of research and interviews and looking at what other people had said about grief, discovered psychology calls it the assumptive future.
00:32:05.690 --> 00:32:11.109 Rachel S. Heslin: Which is how we assume things are going to be. And I started writing the book
00:32:11.280 --> 00:32:17.820 Rachel S. Heslin: And it just. It was kind of clunky. And I wasn't. It was very stilted. It.
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:20.390 Rachel S. Heslin: Sounded like I was trying to be my dad.
00:32:20.770 --> 00:32:28.219 Rachel S. Heslin: So I set it aside and I actually took a left turn and started writing fiction just for fun.
00:32:28.460 --> 00:32:28.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:32:28.890 --> 00:32:40.399 Rachel S. Heslin: And what that did is it helped me tap back into my ability to convey the experience of being human.
00:32:40.820 --> 00:32:41.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:32:41.620 --> 00:32:46.760 Rachel S. Heslin: which was a very important part of this whole process.
00:32:47.470 --> 00:32:51.869 Rachel S. Heslin: When the pandemic shutdown occurred, I started writing again.
00:32:52.030 --> 00:32:59.180 Rachel S. Heslin: And there were all of these things, just on a global level, so much loss, so many things breaking down.
00:33:00.630 --> 00:33:09.540 Rachel S. Heslin: And again, I got a stopping point because There were certain… aspects of loss
00:33:10.040 --> 00:33:12.709 Rachel S. Heslin: That I had not personally experienced.
00:33:15.270 --> 00:33:20.819 Rachel S. Heslin: I'm very intuitive, I'm very receptive, I'm very observant.
00:33:20.930 --> 00:33:24.580 Rachel S. Heslin: But all those things can only take you so far.
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:25.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: -H.
00:33:26.770 --> 00:33:33.850 Rachel S. Heslin: Then in August of '22, My husband had a heart attack and died.
00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:39.619 Rachel S. Heslin: And all of a sudden, I had all of this rich material to incorporate into the book.
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.690 Rachel S. Heslin: It really, in some ways at that point.
00:33:47.580 --> 00:33:50.779 Rachel S. Heslin: The book became my guiding star.
00:33:52.300 --> 00:33:55.500 Rachel S. Heslin: I knew… that…
00:33:58.510 --> 00:34:04.100 Rachel S. Heslin: Well, it's like I said before, so much of my work comes from my own experience.
00:34:04.290 --> 00:34:11.630 Rachel S. Heslin: So the two things that really moved me through the process myself.
00:34:11.750 --> 00:34:13.219 Rachel S. Heslin: Where my kids…
00:34:13.710 --> 00:34:14.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:34:14.190 --> 00:34:19.809 Rachel S. Heslin: because it was so important that I modeled healthy grieving for them.
00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:21.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:34:21.949 --> 00:34:29.089 Rachel S. Heslin: And this book Because I wanted to help others.
00:34:29.270 --> 00:34:30.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:34:30.120 --> 00:34:32.419 Rachel S. Heslin: I'll talk about the…
00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:39.050 Rachel S. Heslin: Kubler-Ross's five stages of grief, and we can go on how they're not… I actually refer to them as expressions of grief.
00:34:39.830 --> 00:34:40.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:49.369 Rachel S. Heslin: There's a sixth one that her research partner, David Kessler, pointed out that he calls making meaning.
00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:50.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:34:50.600 --> 00:34:57.589 Rachel S. Heslin: That's when, after somebody has died, or after something terrible has happened.
00:34:58.030 --> 00:35:03.390 Rachel S. Heslin: you honor that memory by doing something moving forward.
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:04.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:35:04.240 --> 00:35:09.880 Rachel S. Heslin: And in some ways, this book became part of my making meaning process.
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:11.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:35:13.810 --> 00:35:18.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so what what did you discover about.
00:35:20.010 --> 00:35:23.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Approaching grief from this.
00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:33.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hugely emotionally charged situation that I would say either surprised you or caused you to go, oh.
00:35:34.450 --> 00:35:40.919 Rachel S. Heslin: Well, the biggest one is something that I actually haven't seen elsewhere.
00:35:41.230 --> 00:35:46.670 Rachel S. Heslin: is the difference between what I call cognitive versus somatic grief.
00:35:47.610 --> 00:35:48.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, okay.
00:35:48.670 --> 00:35:52.920 Rachel S. Heslin: And I actually, I first noticed this, my grandmother passed
00:35:53.050 --> 00:35:56.470 Rachel S. Heslin: Earlier, she had passed in March of 22.
00:35:56.470 --> 00:35:57.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:35:57.680 --> 00:35:59.250 Rachel S. Heslin: Cognitive grief.
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:02.170 Rachel S. Heslin: Is all of the stories.
00:36:02.670 --> 00:36:08.889 Rachel S. Heslin: All of the coulda, woulda, shouldas. All the… fighting against it. The.
00:36:08.890 --> 00:36:09.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So…
00:36:09.790 --> 00:36:13.620 Rachel S. Heslin: regrets, the anger, the…
00:36:13.780 --> 00:36:22.519 Rachel S. Heslin: My future should have been this, and it's not the stories of what we thought would be all of that.
00:36:22.770 --> 00:36:26.140 Rachel S. Heslin: Comes under the heading of cognitive grief.
00:36:26.620 --> 00:36:27.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.490 Rachel S. Heslin: Somatic grief.
00:36:29.630 --> 00:36:31.980 Rachel S. Heslin: is completely different.
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:32.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:34.769 Rachel S. Heslin: One lives in the body itself.
00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:35.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:36:35.550 --> 00:36:36.859 Rachel S. Heslin: Somatic grief.
00:36:37.410 --> 00:36:38.950 Rachel S. Heslin: Well, is a wave.
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.349 Rachel S. Heslin: It will come in, take you out, drop you to your knees.
00:36:43.350 --> 00:36:43.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:36:43.850 --> 00:36:45.160 Rachel S. Heslin: come through.
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:47.660 Rachel S. Heslin: And then… Pass.
00:36:48.160 --> 00:36:49.700 Rachel S. Heslin: And it dissipates.
00:36:50.390 --> 00:36:52.689 Rachel S. Heslin: It is something that.
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:56.819 Rachel S. Heslin: cannot be rationalized.
00:36:57.070 --> 00:36:59.039 Rachel S. Heslin: It can simply be felt.
00:36:59.370 --> 00:36:59.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:37:00.150 --> 00:37:02.210 Rachel S. Heslin: Yeah, one of the things I say.
00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:08.629 Rachel S. Heslin: And also, I differentiate between the grief experience from the grief process.
00:37:09.030 --> 00:37:18.780 Rachel S. Heslin: The grief experience is describing, here's everything we're going through on all the various permutations of it. The grief process
00:37:19.350 --> 00:37:22.640 Rachel S. Heslin: is the reconciliation.
00:37:23.240 --> 00:37:31.359 Rachel S. Heslin: Between… What we thought our future should be, and how it actually is.
00:37:31.660 --> 00:37:32.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:33.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:37:36.410 --> 00:37:40.479 Rachel S. Heslin: And I think that was a parenthesis. I can't remember what I was saying, so.
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:41.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Me.
00:37:41.100 --> 00:37:41.790 Rachel S. Heslin: Okay.
00:37:41.790 --> 00:37:43.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That was good, that was good enough.
00:37:43.830 --> 00:37:45.040 Rachel S. Heslin: Yeah.
00:37:45.410 --> 00:37:52.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious, your title is Hearts Are Meant to Be Broken. What do you mean by that?
00:37:52.300 --> 00:37:59.579 Rachel S. Heslin: I mean that… As human beings, we most thrive
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:10.459 Rachel S. Heslin: When we are moving towards something, whether the dreams, the expectations, the goals that are pulling us forward through life.
00:38:13.100 --> 00:38:16.719 Rachel S. Heslin: At the same time, It doesn't always happen.
00:38:17.310 --> 00:38:18.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:38:18.180 --> 00:38:23.169 Rachel S. Heslin: Life doesn't, the whole God laughs, whatever.
00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:24.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, man plans, God laughs.
00:38:24.620 --> 00:38:25.960 Rachel S. Heslin: God laughs, yeah.
00:38:26.470 --> 00:38:29.280 Rachel S. Heslin: And it doesn't happen.
00:38:30.430 --> 00:38:35.429 Rachel S. Heslin: Now, there are a couple ways that people could respond to that.
00:38:35.430 --> 00:38:35.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:38:35.870 --> 00:38:39.920 Rachel S. Heslin: they could, Either say, oh, well, it doesn't matter.
00:38:40.870 --> 00:38:44.950 Rachel S. Heslin: And life just becomes a checklist of going forward.
00:38:45.200 --> 00:38:50.159 Rachel S. Heslin: Or, they'll say it hurts too much, I'm never gonna dream again.
00:38:50.520 --> 00:38:51.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:59.100 Rachel S. Heslin: And both of those responses or reactions cut us off from being fully alive.
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:00.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:39:01.750 --> 00:39:05.919 Rachel S. Heslin: We need, and this is where I talk about models.
00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:06.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:39:06.940 --> 00:39:10.320 Rachel S. Heslin: And everything has a positive intention.
00:39:10.520 --> 00:39:11.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:18.769 Rachel S. Heslin: I believe We have an internal process to reconcile these two truths.
00:39:18.890 --> 00:39:22.200 Rachel S. Heslin: That we need dreams, and they fall apart.
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.469 Rachel S. Heslin: And that process is grief.
00:39:25.930 --> 00:39:26.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:39:26.710 --> 00:39:31.000 Rachel S. Heslin: The way you described it in the introduction is perfect.
00:39:31.270 --> 00:39:31.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:37.460 Rachel S. Heslin: In that, We constantly need to break open.
00:39:38.250 --> 00:39:41.779 Rachel S. Heslin: Right. Whether you're talking about acorns or caterpillars.
00:39:41.780 --> 00:39:42.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:39:42.980 --> 00:39:49.199 Rachel S. Heslin: If you want to get to the next stage, something has to break.
00:39:50.050 --> 00:39:50.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:39:50.370 --> 00:39:55.200 Rachel S. Heslin: We're a constant process of letting go.
00:39:55.750 --> 00:40:03.369 Rachel S. Heslin: This is interesting. The original subtitle for the book was The Intrinsic Resilience of Grief.
00:40:04.300 --> 00:40:04.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But that.
00:40:05.140 --> 00:40:07.930 Rachel S. Heslin: really what I wanted to say.
00:40:07.930 --> 00:40:08.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:40:08.710 --> 00:40:12.610 Rachel S. Heslin: Because resilience implies a bouncing back.
00:40:12.910 --> 00:40:14.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:20.220 Rachel S. Heslin: The truth is that if a loss is big enough, It transforms you.
00:40:20.720 --> 00:40:25.530 Rachel S. Heslin: You will never again be the person you were.
00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:26.750 Rachel S. Heslin: before.
00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:27.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:40:27.810 --> 00:40:28.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:40:29.150 --> 00:40:31.900 Rachel S. Heslin: That's not a bug, it's a feature.
00:40:31.900 --> 00:40:41.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, I'm curious if someone listening today and you know lately I've been hearing of a lot of people losing.
00:40:41.330 --> 00:40:46.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Friends, relatives, some expected, some suddenly.
00:40:47.110 --> 00:40:53.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If someone is listening to this, and they're dealing with some grief in their life.
00:40:55.050 --> 00:41:04.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how would you recommend they approach it? That might be a more supportive way of approaching grief than what we're used to.
00:41:07.160 --> 00:41:13.699 Rachel S. Heslin: The number one, I guess, first step Is to become aware.
00:41:13.930 --> 00:41:18.159 Rachel S. Heslin: Of where they are shaming themselves for how they feel.
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:19.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:41:20.260 --> 00:41:21.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:41:21.810 --> 00:41:25.889 Rachel S. Heslin: There are so many societal shoulds.
00:41:26.170 --> 00:41:33.049 Rachel S. Heslin: about feelings. And it's neat that this actually ties into your blog entry at the introduction.
00:41:33.050 --> 00:41:39.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, they tend to do that. I'm just taking them in order, but somehow they seem so apropos.
00:41:39.170 --> 00:41:48.049 Rachel S. Heslin: They do because feelings, I believe feelings are sacred.
00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:49.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:41:50.030 --> 00:41:54.000 Rachel S. Heslin: At the same time, I do… I separate…
00:41:54.850 --> 00:41:59.929 Rachel S. Heslin: I'm going to go off on a tangent here. I do think it is useful in this situation.
00:42:00.220 --> 00:42:03.659 Rachel S. Heslin: I have something I call the Agency Framework.
00:42:04.180 --> 00:42:04.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And the…
00:42:04.720 --> 00:42:09.410 Rachel S. Heslin: The purpose of it is to help people regain a sense of control in their lives.
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:13.089 Rachel S. Heslin: Considering everything going on in the world.
00:42:13.090 --> 00:42:13.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:42:13.560 --> 00:42:19.839 Rachel S. Heslin: This has been coming to the surface a lot. Yeah. And it's really easy because there are only three steps.
00:42:20.610 --> 00:42:23.119 Rachel S. Heslin: First is to acknowledge your feelings.
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:24.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:42:24.070 --> 00:42:28.230 Rachel S. Heslin: Second, Is to examine your thoughts.
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:29.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:42:29.510 --> 00:42:34.800 Rachel S. Heslin: The third is to take responsibility for your actions.
00:42:36.790 --> 00:42:43.770 Rachel S. Heslin: The reason I have found it so effective to separate these out into separate categories.
00:42:43.770 --> 00:42:44.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:42:44.230 --> 00:42:47.279 Rachel S. Heslin: it makes them easier to address.
00:42:47.540 --> 00:42:52.770 Rachel S. Heslin: I talk about this in the book as well, that grief is not a feeling.
00:42:52.990 --> 00:43:01.810 Rachel S. Heslin: Grief is a constellation of concepts and expressions and Feelings and thoughts and.
00:43:02.030 --> 00:43:06.539 Rachel S. Heslin: Just a melange, in response to loss.
00:43:07.540 --> 00:43:08.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:17.140 Rachel S. Heslin: But things are a lot easier to work through when we can identify the separate threads.
00:43:17.900 --> 00:43:24.030 Rachel S. Heslin: Very often, our thoughts and feelings can feel like they're entangled.
00:43:24.220 --> 00:43:29.699 Rachel S. Heslin: But they're actually separate. And when you honor them separately.
00:43:29.930 --> 00:43:33.379 Rachel S. Heslin: It makes it a lot easier to go. Oh.
00:43:33.630 --> 00:43:34.760 Rachel S. Heslin: Okay.
00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:38.230 Rachel S. Heslin: So instead of.
00:43:38.230 --> 00:43:47.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can you give us an example of that, like, maybe from your own life when you lost your husband? What was an example, like, what was the feeling versus what was the thought?
00:43:51.910 --> 00:43:53.030 Rachel S. Heslin: I mean…
00:43:56.750 --> 00:44:00.579 Rachel S. Heslin: The really obvious one is it shouldn't be like this.
00:44:00.580 --> 00:44:01.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:08.810 Rachel S. Heslin: We… Sean and I had a very challenging relationship.
00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:13.020 Rachel S. Heslin: We were mirrors for each other, so we're constantly pushing each other's buttons.
00:44:13.020 --> 00:44:15.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:19.190 Rachel S. Heslin: But there was a deep connection.
00:44:20.310 --> 00:44:26.680 Rachel S. Heslin: And we had finally, after a quarter century, found our way back to each other.
00:44:26.810 --> 00:44:35.590 Rachel S. Heslin: And the kids were turning 18 and graduating high school, and he and I had started dating again.
00:44:36.160 --> 00:44:37.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:43.899 Rachel S. Heslin: So for this to happen now, after 25 years of struggle.
00:44:43.910 --> 00:44:45.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:44:46.290 --> 00:44:47.570 Rachel S. Heslin: It wasn't fair.
00:44:48.060 --> 00:44:48.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:44:48.640 --> 00:44:51.270 Rachel S. Heslin: It really… wasn't.
00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:52.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:44:52.370 --> 00:44:56.200 Rachel S. Heslin: I mean, looking at the you know.
00:44:56.360 --> 00:45:06.640 Rachel S. Heslin: If we want to take it through the agency framework, The feelings… were… anguish and frustration.
00:45:07.020 --> 00:45:10.990 Rachel S. Heslin: Regret that we hadn't gotten our acts together sooner?
00:45:13.490 --> 00:45:15.030 Rachel S. Heslin: and gratitude.
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:19.479 Rachel S. Heslin: that we had found our way back to each other before he passed.
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:26.419 Rachel S. Heslin: Examining the thoughts was all of the Kurdisha to Wadas.
00:45:26.420 --> 00:45:27.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well.
00:45:27.930 --> 00:45:32.020 Rachel S. Heslin: And then the taking the responsibility for my actions.
00:45:32.710 --> 00:45:36.080 Rachel S. Heslin: Looks like choosing to focus.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.999 Rachel S. Heslin: And strengthen the gratitude portion.
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:45.619 Rachel S. Heslin: That we were able to find our way back to each other.
00:45:46.080 --> 00:45:46.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know.
00:45:46.530 --> 00:45:56.700 Rachel S. Heslin: That I felt so validated that yes, this is the guy I chose to marry and I was right in my decision to do so.
00:45:56.700 --> 00:45:57.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:45:59.310 --> 00:46:05.560 Rachel S. Heslin: Taking responsibility for what I do going forward. What can I learn?
00:46:05.950 --> 00:46:06.930 Rachel S. Heslin: From.
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:08.610 Rachel S. Heslin: The regrets.
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:09.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:46:09.650 --> 00:46:11.440 Rachel S. Heslin: I mean, the TEDx talk.
00:46:12.550 --> 00:46:20.880 Rachel S. Heslin: My husband had a difficult childhood, and although he did not experience
00:46:21.080 --> 00:46:25.739 Rachel S. Heslin: the… what I refer to, allude to in the talk.
00:46:27.180 --> 00:46:36.030 Rachel S. Heslin: he was the basis. He was why I asked the question, because there were so many times I got frustrated, because he kept
00:46:36.450 --> 00:46:38.469 Rachel S. Heslin: blaming everybody else.
00:46:39.610 --> 00:46:44.190 Rachel S. Heslin: And it forced me to go in and say, well, hold on, what's really going inside?
00:46:45.020 --> 00:46:45.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:46:45.710 --> 00:46:49.120 Rachel S. Heslin: And that's when I realized it was the little kid in him.
00:46:49.260 --> 00:46:52.230 Rachel S. Heslin: Who was terrified that there was something wrong.
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:53.070 Rachel S. Heslin: With him.
00:46:53.890 --> 00:46:54.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:46:54.490 --> 00:46:56.519 Rachel S. Heslin: And it opened my heart.
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.509 Rachel S. Heslin: So I chose again.
00:47:02.190 --> 00:47:04.339 Rachel S. Heslin: bringing back the making meaning.
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.100 Rachel S. Heslin: That Tedx talk.
00:47:07.550 --> 00:47:09.849 Rachel S. Heslin: is a love letter to my husband.
00:47:09.850 --> 00:47:10.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: spend.
00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:15.810 Rachel S. Heslin: because I was unable to support him sooner.
00:47:16.510 --> 00:47:20.069 Rachel S. Heslin: I want… to support others instead.
00:47:20.660 --> 00:47:22.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Going forward.
00:47:24.810 --> 00:47:27.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I mean that's, that's hard when.
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:34.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You, you've worked so long and so hard at something, in this case a relationship.
00:47:35.330 --> 00:47:37.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And things finally get better.
00:47:38.370 --> 00:47:53.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then it feels like the rug got pulled out from underneath you, and it's like, what? Wait, no, like, this isn't supposed to happen now, it's supposed to happen later, because things are just getting good, like, how can this happen now?
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:57.769 Rachel S. Heslin: Do you know what's funny? Part of the examining thoughts part of it.
00:47:58.220 --> 00:48:11.960 Rachel S. Heslin: is I went through and re-evaluated our relationship, like, going back to the beginning, looking at what was happening from the lens of who I am now.
00:48:12.100 --> 00:48:13.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:48:13.240 --> 00:48:19.520 Rachel S. Heslin: and looking at all the things that felt hurtful at the time.
00:48:20.040 --> 00:48:20.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:48:20.510 --> 00:48:26.879 Rachel S. Heslin: But… Again, going back… Had a positive intention.
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:29.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:48:29.830 --> 00:48:31.540 Rachel S. Heslin: what I discovered.
00:48:31.900 --> 00:48:37.050 Rachel S. Heslin: is I actually had a much better marriage than I had realized at the time I was going through it.
00:48:37.050 --> 00:48:38.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Always do.
00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:46.599 Rachel S. Heslin: was kind of clumsily executed, because we were like, just tripping our way through it. But yeah, it was.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:48.230 Rachel S. Heslin: Even better.
00:48:48.610 --> 00:48:50.310 Rachel S. Heslin: Than I had thought at the time.
00:48:53.270 --> 00:48:56.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No, that sounds like a true love letter to your husband.
00:48:58.810 --> 00:49:07.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: with your book, What do you hope people gain from it?
00:49:11.870 --> 00:49:12.670 Rachel S. Heslin: Relief.
00:49:13.410 --> 00:49:14.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:49:15.270 --> 00:49:20.210 Rachel S. Heslin: I am hoping that people walk away.
00:49:21.640 --> 00:49:24.690 Rachel S. Heslin: with… Hope.
00:49:25.680 --> 00:49:26.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:29.960 Rachel S. Heslin: with confidence.
00:49:30.630 --> 00:49:40.520 Rachel S. Heslin: that they are actually so much stronger and more capable But they realize…
00:49:41.100 --> 00:49:41.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right.
00:49:42.990 --> 00:49:47.950 Rachel S. Heslin: I want them to have more compassion for their experience.
00:49:48.820 --> 00:49:54.660 Rachel S. Heslin: I want them to let go of some of the burdens they have been carrying.
00:49:54.990 --> 00:49:58.050 Rachel S. Heslin: The guilt, the shame, the shoulds.
00:49:59.430 --> 00:50:01.099 Rachel S. Heslin: and just put them down.
00:50:01.470 --> 00:50:02.820 Rachel S. Heslin: Just let go.
00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:10.900 Rachel S. Heslin: and allow themselves to Trust in themselves.
00:50:12.240 --> 00:50:14.960 Rachel S. Heslin: Because they truly are.
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:20.549 Rachel S. Heslin: more capable than they matter than they realize, and they
00:50:21.260 --> 00:50:25.829 Rachel S. Heslin: What they feel matters, what they experience matters, what they think.
00:50:26.190 --> 00:50:27.550 Rachel S. Heslin: Matters.
00:50:30.450 --> 00:50:34.840 Rachel S. Heslin: And it is important to honor Their dreams.
00:50:35.650 --> 00:50:36.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmh.
00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:37.700 Rachel S. Heslin: and make tiles.
00:50:38.570 --> 00:50:39.799 Rachel S. Heslin: use the the
00:50:40.060 --> 00:50:45.250 Rachel S. Heslin: The picture I have is you take the tiles of your broken dreams and make a new mosaic.
00:50:46.540 --> 00:50:47.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm.
00:50:47.870 --> 00:50:50.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I also just want to point out that
00:50:50.570 --> 00:50:55.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The grief around loss doesn't have to be just around a relationship.
00:50:55.770 --> 00:51:08.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It could be around what many people are starting to experience now, a loss of a career, a loss of a business, a loss of a job, a loss of an opportunity. You know, there are all kinds of losses.
00:51:09.220 --> 00:51:12.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we can honor and we grieve.
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:16.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But, you know, I think we have a tendency to think, like.
00:51:16.650 --> 00:51:23.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The only real grief we feel is when we lose somebody important in our life, but there's so much more
00:51:24.140 --> 00:51:26.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That kind of grief, isn't there?
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:32.509 Rachel S. Heslin: It's back to what we are actually grieving is the assumptive future.
00:51:33.510 --> 00:51:36.749 Rachel S. Heslin: It's what we thought our lives would be.
00:51:36.980 --> 00:51:47.490 Rachel S. Heslin: This is why… I mean, you have parents whose children are born with disabilities. The child's right there.
00:51:47.640 --> 00:51:51.520 Rachel S. Heslin: But there's a grief, and there's a guilt for the grief.
00:51:52.270 --> 00:51:53.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:51:53.000 --> 00:52:00.560 Rachel S. Heslin: Again, this is why I think it's so important to separate out the threads of the expression so that
00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:08.200 Rachel S. Heslin: It is okay to grieve what you thought the future would be.
00:52:08.470 --> 00:52:12.739 Rachel S. Heslin: As long as you also cherish.
00:52:13.810 --> 00:52:18.199 Rachel S. Heslin: And have curiosity about what the new future might become.
00:52:18.670 --> 00:52:19.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:52:22.140 --> 00:52:29.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because… This universe sometimes has a much better imagination for our life than we do.
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:31.150 Rachel S. Heslin: Oh my goodness.
00:52:31.150 --> 00:52:33.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And if we can remain open.
00:52:33.770 --> 00:52:39.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The surprises that await us are far greater than anything we could have imagined.
00:52:39.810 --> 00:52:42.449 Rachel S. Heslin: Oh, yes. I mean, we see that.
00:52:46.210 --> 00:52:54.120 Rachel S. Heslin: looking at the Well, I mean, the world is burning down.
00:52:54.640 --> 00:52:56.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's transforming, for sure.
00:52:56.750 --> 00:52:57.800 Rachel S. Heslin: It is.
00:52:58.290 --> 00:53:08.220 Rachel S. Heslin: there is a book that I have recommended to strangers on the street called Apocalypse.
00:53:08.630 --> 00:53:15.520 Rachel S. Heslin: How catastrophe has transformed our world and can forge new futures.
00:53:15.750 --> 00:53:24.319 Rachel S. Heslin: And it's looking at the really long term, we're talking millennia. The author is Lizzie Wade, she's an archaeologist.
00:53:24.850 --> 00:53:25.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:53:25.630 --> 00:53:28.409 Rachel S. Heslin: And she started out writing about climate change.
00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:30.930 Rachel S. Heslin: And how…
00:53:31.110 --> 00:53:43.240 Rachel S. Heslin: cities were buried, and flooded, and how societies changed, and looking at the Mayan Empire, and how it broke down, and just looking at things.
00:53:44.890 --> 00:53:48.930 Rachel S. Heslin: Seeing what is going on right now.
00:53:50.610 --> 00:53:56.539 Rachel S. Heslin: It helps to look at the larger evolution of humanity.
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:57.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmmm…
00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:01.130 Rachel S. Heslin: Again.
00:54:01.410 --> 00:54:03.240 Rachel S. Heslin: multiple threads.
00:54:03.560 --> 00:54:03.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:54:03.980 --> 00:54:06.730 Rachel S. Heslin: There is so much loss.
00:54:07.690 --> 00:54:11.370 Rachel S. Heslin: It is… worthy of grief.
00:54:11.700 --> 00:54:18.239 Rachel S. Heslin: at everything that is breaking down. There is so much uncertainty in the world.
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:19.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:54:21.630 --> 00:54:28.089 Rachel S. Heslin: And I'm thinking of when the hurricane swept through North Carolina a couple years ago.
00:54:28.090 --> 00:54:30.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and devastated Asheville.
00:54:30.670 --> 00:54:35.019 Rachel S. Heslin: Yeah, and my, I had friends who lived there who
00:54:35.700 --> 00:54:43.239 Rachel S. Heslin: We're so uplifted that amidst the death and destruction, how many people came together.
00:54:43.240 --> 00:54:43.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Together.
00:54:44.150 --> 00:54:45.480 Rachel S. Heslin: as neighbors.
00:54:46.450 --> 00:54:51.939 Rachel S. Heslin: And I do believe That as we focus
00:54:52.310 --> 00:54:55.869 Rachel S. Heslin: on connecting with our common humanity.
00:54:56.740 --> 00:55:02.390 Rachel S. Heslin: that together we can create A more collaborative.
00:55:02.770 --> 00:55:07.380 Rachel S. Heslin: A more compassionate, more compassionate and more generative.
00:55:07.510 --> 00:55:08.680 Rachel S. Heslin: Future.
00:55:09.600 --> 00:55:11.310 Rachel S. Heslin: For humanity.
00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:13.390 Rachel S. Heslin: that supports us all.
00:55:13.690 --> 00:55:16.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah. Amen to that, sister. Amen.
00:55:17.690 --> 00:55:19.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Rachel,
00:55:20.260 --> 00:55:31.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: before we sign off, if people want to learn more about you, learn more about your work, your books, and your writings, where can they find you online? How do they reach out to you?
00:55:32.020 --> 00:55:38.579 Rachel S. Heslin: My website is thefullnessofyourpower.com.
00:55:38.850 --> 00:55:39.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmhm.
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:40.850 Rachel S. Heslin: Umm.
00:55:41.120 --> 00:55:47.410 Rachel S. Heslin: The book has its own website, which is heartsaremeanttobebroken.com.
00:55:49.130 --> 00:55:52.690 Rachel S. Heslin: And from there, reach out. I'd love to hear from you.
00:55:52.900 --> 00:55:58.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well And do you offer any services to people, or you just do speaking and writing?
00:55:58.770 --> 00:56:10.319 Rachel S. Heslin: At the moment I'm primarily focused on speaking and writing. Once in a while I work with people. I may work with people in the future.
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:15.920 Rachel S. Heslin: But, like I said, I'm more about questions than answers.
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:16.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:56:16.370 --> 00:56:17.230 Rachel S. Heslin: No.
00:56:17.230 --> 00:56:17.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Got it.
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:19.570 Rachel S. Heslin: I love sparking people.
00:56:19.910 --> 00:56:27.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, wonderful. Well, I hope today's conversation has sparked something in our audience and that people.
00:56:27.450 --> 00:56:42.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can perhaps take a different perspective on grief. So thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to come on the show and share your perspectives. It was truly wonderful to hear your story and to hear how this all came about. So thank you.
00:56:43.430 --> 00:56:48.590 Rachel S. Heslin: Thank you so much for having me. This went really fast. It was wonderful.
00:56:48.590 --> 00:57:04.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, people think an hour is a long time. It's like that. So thank you. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show. And don't forget, if you did miss any part of today's show.
00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:16.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You can always catch the replay on talkradio.nyc. And on your favorite social media platform, you can find the Conscious Consultant Hour on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Twitch.
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:24.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of course, as well as on your favorite podcasting platform, Apple, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio, Amazon.
00:57:25.500 --> 00:57:35.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you all for tuning in today. I hope you got something out of this show. Take care, everybody. We will talk to you all next week.
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