This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes author, mediator, and lifelong seeker, Brian Muldoon.
Brian’s path has bridged law, spirituality, and deep human connection. From an early desire to live a monastic life to becoming a pioneering figure in conflict mediation, Brian has spent decades exploring how we can bring compassion, presence, and healing into the heart of everyday life. His journey has taken him from courtrooms to global interfaith gatherings, including organizing historic dialogues with Dalai Lama, always guided by a deeper calling to unite the spiritual and the practical.
In this rich and inspiring conversation, Brian shares the story behind his new novel, The Luminous One, a work born from years of spiritual inquiry, interfaith dialogue, and personal transformation. Inspired in part by his travels in the Himalayas and his relationships with spiritual teachers, the book explores the emergence of a modern spiritual figure and asks timeless questions about what it means to embody compassion, wisdom, and divine presence in today’s world. It reflects Brian’s lifelong exploration of what he once envisioned as being “a monk in the world,” fully engaged in life while rooted in spiritual depth.
Together, Sam and Brian explore how storytelling can become a vehicle for awakening, how conflict can be transformed through compassion, and how each of us can access our own inner luminosity.
This episode invites listeners to consider that the sacred is not separate from daily life, but something we are here to live, express, and embody. Through Brian’s journey and his latest work, we are reminded that the path is not about escaping the world, but illuminating it from within.
Tune in and share your own questions about Spiritual Fiction on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://theluminousonebook.com/
In this opening segment of The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam Liebowitz reflects on the universal pain of rejection, emphasizing that true healing comes not from distraction or numbing, but from courageously being present with our emotions and allowing them to move through us. He reminds spiritually conscious listeners that rejection is not a reflection of our worth, but simply a misalignment in timing or readiness, and that avoiding our feelings only embeds them deeper into our bodies and unconscious patterns. The conversation then expands with guest Brian Muldoon, whose journey bridges law, spirituality, and interfaith dialogue, illustrating how a life devoted to compassion, meditation, and inner inquiry can transform even traditionally rigid systems like the legal field into spaces for healing and resolution. Through stories of working alongside figures like Dalai Lama and engaging in deep personal transformation, Muldoon highlights the importance of humility, ego awareness, and heart-centered connection in awakening consciousness. Together, they invite listeners to embrace both the pain and beauty of the human experience, recognizing that living fully means feeling deeply, seeking support when needed, and walking a path that integrates spiritual wisdom into everyday life.
In this second half of The Conscious Consultant Hour, Brian Muldoon shares that his novel The Luminous One was born from a deep frustration with rigid religious structures, inspiring him to uncover a more authentic, human-centered understanding of spirituality—one that invites seekers to question inherited beliefs and rediscover truth through personal experience. Drawing from mystical insight and global spiritual traditions, he reframes figures like Jesus Christ not as distant, mythologized icons, but as evolving human beings walking a transformative path that each of us is capable of exploring in our own unique way. The conversation emphasizes that true spiritual growth requires embracing paradox, questioning dogma, and engaging imagination as a sacred tool for inner discovery, rather than blindly accepting prescribed narratives. Muldoon also highlights the importance of reclaiming the emotional depth of spiritual figures—particularly through grief, compassion, and lived practice—suggesting that embodying their teachings is far more meaningful than merely venerating their stories. Ultimately, both he and Sam Liebowitz invite listeners to take full ownership of their spiritual journey, recognizing that awakening is not about following a single “correct” path, but courageously creating and walking one’s own, grounded in authenticity, responsibility, and an open heart.
00:00:28.350 --> 00:00:39.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators! Good morning, good evening, wherever you're tuning in from. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity.
00:00:39.530 --> 00:00:58.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We have another wonderful show in store for you, with a fascinating gentleman who I'm looking forward to bringing on shortly. But first, of course, it is our blog post from a couple of years ago.
00:00:58.040 --> 00:01:03.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just kind of taking these in order. And this is an interesting one. This is,
00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:16.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One… a topic I don't think I've talked about on my blog before, and the title of this blog post is, The Only Way Through the Pain of Rejection is to be present to it.
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:24.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Rejection is never easy. We have all felt rejected at one time in our lives.
00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:28.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Over time, the pain of rejection lessens.
00:01:29.020 --> 00:01:31.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Until the next one comes.
00:01:32.030 --> 00:01:38.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The rejection we experience may be from friends, lovers, family, or even institutions.
00:01:39.600 --> 00:01:45.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Some people learn how to have a thick skin and deal with rejection that way.
00:01:46.270 --> 00:01:50.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Others feel crushed every time they are met with rejection.
00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:53.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Most of us are somewhere in between.
00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:59.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We learned to be okay with some forms of rejection over the years.
00:02:00.810 --> 00:02:07.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet still, the sting of rejection from someone close to us may affect us greatly.
00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:12.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That searing pain when we bear our hearts until…
00:02:12.790 --> 00:02:19.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To be met until we're met with rejection is the most painful.
00:02:19.870 --> 00:02:25.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It may not be from the love of our lives, yet it still hurts all the same.
00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:29.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We might fall into a funk because of it.
00:02:30.210 --> 00:02:33.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or feel the need to seek the help of a professional.
00:02:34.720 --> 00:02:40.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sometimes, we drown our sorrows by diving deep into our livelihood.
00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:45.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Distracting ourselves from the pain we feel in our hearts.
00:02:46.610 --> 00:02:49.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There are many ways we can distract ourselves.
00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:52.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can do it through our phones.
00:02:52.810 --> 00:02:57.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our work, extra projects, or even going to the gym.
00:02:57.370 --> 00:03:03.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Filling up every waking hour with something so that we don't have to think about it.
00:03:04.710 --> 00:03:06.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet we do.
00:03:06.880 --> 00:03:14.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We think about every… we think about it every second when we are not focused on our distraction.
00:03:16.090 --> 00:03:20.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it is okay to want to be distracted for a while.
00:03:20.700 --> 00:03:27.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To allow some distance from the painful event until we are strong enough to truly face it.
00:03:28.610 --> 00:03:38.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The real challenge is that whenever we do work up the courage to face it, it is still going to be as painful as it was before.
00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:42.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is still going to break our hearts.
00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe even take us out of commission for a while.
00:03:48.920 --> 00:03:52.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is not a matter of if, but when.
00:03:54.290 --> 00:03:59.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So in the end, no matter what we do to delay the inevitable.
00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We eventually have to deal with the pain.
00:04:03.980 --> 00:04:05.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All of it.
00:04:06.190 --> 00:04:11.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or it will fester inside our bodies until it kills us.
00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:14.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that does not serve us at all.
00:04:15.550 --> 00:04:18.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The only way past the pain.
00:04:18.709 --> 00:04:20.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's through the pain.
00:04:22.370 --> 00:04:27.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Numbing ourselves only pushes it down into the unconscious.
00:04:27.660 --> 00:04:31.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Where it will surface in other ways.
00:04:32.310 --> 00:04:36.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, for better or worse, we have to deal with the pain of rejection.
00:04:37.370 --> 00:04:41.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: somehow… Finding a way to feel that
00:04:41.930 --> 00:04:46.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Feel that, even though this person rejected us.
00:04:46.810 --> 00:04:48.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Doesn't that mean we are bad?
00:04:49.400 --> 00:04:52.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Unworthy. Or defective.
00:04:52.750 --> 00:05:00.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It just means they were not in a place to accept whatever it was
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:04.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we were offering at that point in time.
00:05:06.030 --> 00:05:08.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Perhaps the future will be different.
00:05:09.400 --> 00:05:16.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And maybe… Just, maybe, the next time we take a chance.
00:05:16.880 --> 00:05:18.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We won't be rejected.
00:05:20.100 --> 00:05:27.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, I've… I've had a lot of clients over the years who…
00:05:27.930 --> 00:05:35.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Had a really hard time dealing with rejection, dealing with not being accepted for something.
00:05:36.850 --> 00:05:42.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And most of the time, it's usually about a relationship. Not always, but usually.
00:05:42.380 --> 00:05:50.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, sometimes it's about a job. Sometimes it's about being rejected by a family member. Sometimes it's about…
00:05:50.920 --> 00:06:02.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a project getting rejected. I mean, if you're a creative, maybe you're an actor, or a singer, or a dancer, and you have to audition, you deal with rejection all the time.
00:06:04.830 --> 00:06:16.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But this particular piece I wrote after working with a client who had met this… this woman.
00:06:16.610 --> 00:06:30.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And they really, really liked her. And they had been communicating virtually for a couple of years, I think. She had lived in another country and then moved here, finally, and they met in person.
00:06:30.690 --> 00:06:37.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Once, and then twice, and this person felt such a strong connection to her.
00:06:38.570 --> 00:06:46.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then they finally had the courage to ask her out, to say, hey, you know, would you like to, you know, be my girlfriend?
00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:51.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And she was just not in a place for it.
00:06:51.580 --> 00:07:02.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For whatever reason, I don't know, he didn't really say whether she had just broken up, or just come out of a relationship, or just maybe she just wasn't into him in that way.
00:07:03.670 --> 00:07:07.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But he felt crushed, and he was sharing with me the pain.
00:07:08.280 --> 00:07:10.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of the rejection, and…
00:07:11.390 --> 00:07:25.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We didn't really even understand it, you know, because they had gotten together so well. They were so in alignment on so many things, and they were really, like, there for each other in so many ways.
00:07:27.490 --> 00:07:33.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And he felt this strong connection to her, but she did not feel that same kind of connection for him.
00:07:35.210 --> 00:07:42.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so, in listening to his story, and working with him to kind of get past that pain.
00:07:42.820 --> 00:07:48.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I realize that it's actually a much more common pain than we realize.
00:07:49.090 --> 00:07:58.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that… Rejection is something we… Deal with all the time.
00:07:59.510 --> 00:08:03.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But most of us don't deal with it that consciously.
00:08:04.840 --> 00:08:08.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We don't allow ourselves to feel the pain of it.
00:08:10.090 --> 00:08:15.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I mean, like anything else, we don't… Allow ourselves to feel
00:08:15.420 --> 00:08:18.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The pain of so many things.
00:08:20.140 --> 00:08:25.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And our default is to distract, to numb ourselves.
00:08:26.200 --> 00:08:33.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, you know, many people numb themselves through alcohol, through smoking, through drugs, through…
00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:37.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Through the opposite, through exercise, through extreme sports, through…
00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:44.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Whatever, addiction to pornography, or sex, or whatever.
00:08:47.190 --> 00:08:50.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I realized, like, it's all the same thing.
00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:59.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's all… Just a mechanism by which we don't have to feel the pain.
00:09:05.680 --> 00:09:09.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that so does not serve us.
00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:16.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That so is… Actually, the worst thing that we can possibly do.
00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:23.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because as uncomfortable as it is to feel the pain.
00:09:24.310 --> 00:09:30.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we don't allow ourselves to feel it, what happens?
00:09:31.050 --> 00:09:39.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well… We push it down, it still lives inside of us, it starts running unconsciously.
00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:46.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And starts causing us to make certain decisions and choices that don't necessarily serve us.
00:09:47.430 --> 00:09:49.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it's still there inside our body.
00:09:51.700 --> 00:09:58.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so… What can happen is, it turns into some kind of physical issue.
00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Some kind of dis-ease.
00:10:01.140 --> 00:10:06.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: something that… It can turn into something really serious.
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's no escaping it. Our feelings.
00:10:13.890 --> 00:10:32.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet, so much of society, because we value the mental, we value the mind more than the heart, we escape up into our mind, and we think, oh, if I'm… if I just figure things out, if I just, you know, do things a certain way, if I just figure how to be and control things, like, then I'll be safe and I'll be fine.
00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:38.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way.
00:10:38.850 --> 00:10:41.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Unfortunately, our bodies don't work that way.
00:10:46.780 --> 00:10:49.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know who's really good at dealing with rejection?
00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:51.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Salespeople.
00:10:51.780 --> 00:10:57.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because salespeople have to deal with rejection on a daily basis for their work.
00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:06.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so salespeople learn To… to let the nose roll off their back.
00:11:09.030 --> 00:11:17.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To let the rejection… and because they do it for work, they can deal with rejection in any other part of life.
00:11:19.700 --> 00:11:23.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But for those of us who are not professional salespeople.
00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:26.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For those of us who are not used to rejection.
00:11:27.230 --> 00:11:31.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can be one of the most difficult things to deal with.
00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:39.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Especially when it's a rejection after you've just opened your heart to someone, and they reject you.
00:11:41.690 --> 00:11:45.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that shuts down a piece of our soul, in a way.
00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:50.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because then, next time, we're going to be much more guarded when we open our heart to someone.
00:11:51.420 --> 00:11:55.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And we may even be less likely to open our heart to anyone.
00:11:59.560 --> 00:12:02.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And then life becomes a little more dull.
00:12:03.250 --> 00:12:04.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: more flat.
00:12:07.050 --> 00:12:08.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: more bland.
00:12:10.630 --> 00:12:15.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Because when we don't feel the lows, when we don't feel the pain.
00:12:15.150 --> 00:12:18.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: then we can't feel the good stuff. We can't feel the love.
00:12:18.680 --> 00:12:20.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The happiness, the joy.
00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:30.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, unfortunately, If we want to…
00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:34.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Live life to the fullest, and feel life to the fullest.
00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They have to experience it all.
00:12:38.880 --> 00:12:47.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, look, I'm not saying you have to do it all on your own. I'm not saying you gotta live in your pain 24-7. You don't marinate in your pain.
00:12:49.870 --> 00:12:54.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But if it's really that hard… Find a professional.
00:12:55.220 --> 00:13:04.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: find… Psychotherapist, a psychologist, A healer, find somebody who you trust, who you feel safe with.
00:13:05.060 --> 00:13:06.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That you can work with.
00:13:08.800 --> 00:13:12.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: To help hold space for you as you find your way through the pain.
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:15.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: My wife and I do it for…
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, our clients, and for many people.
00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:26.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But there are lots and lots and lots of people out there who can hold it.
00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:30.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Find somebody who resonates with you, and couldn't hold it for you.
00:13:32.280 --> 00:13:33.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So…
00:13:33.310 --> 00:13:40.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's my blog post for this week. It's entitled, The Only Way Through the Pain of Rejection is to be present to it.
00:13:41.210 --> 00:13:47.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And of course, you can always find my blog on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com.
00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:52.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As well as on the station's website at talkradio.nyc slash blog.
00:13:53.530 --> 00:13:54.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright.
00:13:55.220 --> 00:14:00.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now… It is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show
00:14:00.790 --> 00:14:05.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Author, meditator, and lifelong seeker, Brian Muldoon.
00:14:06.230 --> 00:14:11.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Brian's path has bridged law, spirituality, and deep hewing connection.
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:28.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: From an early desire to live a monastic life to becoming a pioneering figure in conflict mediation, Brian has spent decades exploring how we can bring compassion, presence, and healing into the heart of everyday life.
00:14:28.970 --> 00:14:38.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: His journey has taken him from courtrooms to global interfaith gatherings, including organizing historic dialogues with the Dalai Lama.
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:43.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Always guided by a deeper calling to unite the spiritual and the practical.
00:14:44.680 --> 00:14:57.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Brian shares the story behind… will share his story today behind his new novel, The Luminous One, a work born from years of spiritual inquiry, interfaith dialogue, and personal transformation.
00:14:58.060 --> 00:15:09.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Inspired in part by his travels in the Himalayans and his relationships with spiritual teachers, the book explores the emergence of a modern spiritual figure and asks.
00:15:09.710 --> 00:15:18.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Timeless questions about what it means to embody compassion, wisdom, and divine presence in today's world.
00:15:19.170 --> 00:15:21.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Brian.
00:15:21.760 --> 00:15:29.809 Brian Muldoon: Yeah, thank you, Sam. And your piece on rejection was really beautiful, spot on, so thank you for that.
00:15:29.810 --> 00:15:36.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you, thank you. Yeah, somehow they always seem rather apropos for the conversation of the week.
00:15:37.190 --> 00:15:39.400 Brian Muldoon: Well, you've got me thinking.
00:15:39.400 --> 00:15:44.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, good, good. That's the whole point.
00:15:44.830 --> 00:15:45.210 Brian Muldoon: Yup.
00:15:46.690 --> 00:15:56.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, I'm just curious, how did you organize a gathering with the Dalai Lama? He's not an easy person to get a hold of.
00:15:56.690 --> 00:16:07.790 Brian Muldoon: He's not, but I had become a very close friend of a Catholic monk when I lived in Chicago.
00:16:07.970 --> 00:16:13.960 Brian Muldoon: Who… who… named Wayne Teasdale, a brilliant, wonderful guy.
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:20.989 Brian Muldoon: And Wayne had been ordained as a monk in both the Catholic and the Hindu traditions.
00:16:20.990 --> 00:16:21.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wow.
00:16:21.550 --> 00:16:28.050 Brian Muldoon: So, he was a living… Integration, and had written a book
00:16:28.790 --> 00:16:34.620 Brian Muldoon: after his PhD thesis at Fordham, he'd written a book called The Mystic Heart.
00:16:36.050 --> 00:16:44.720 Brian Muldoon: Which really explains what the spiritual foundations are of any number of major religions.
00:16:44.760 --> 00:17:02.539 Brian Muldoon: Anyway, Wayne just happened to be walking in London, probably wearing his monastic robes, and somebody came up to him and said, are you headed for that meeting with the Dalai Lama? And he goes, no, I don't know anything about any such meeting.
00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:10.420 Brian Muldoon: And this guy said, well, I think you'd like it. Why don't you come with me? That's where I'm headed. So Wayne showed up.
00:17:10.869 --> 00:17:26.659 Brian Muldoon: Unannounced, uninvited, and the only seat that was available at the meeting was the one immediately next to the Dalai Lama. So they had a two-way conversation, as… and when the Dalai Lama is, is,
00:17:26.890 --> 00:17:36.590 Brian Muldoon: talking with you personally, it always comes across as a very profound thing, and he loves to take people by the hand and hold.
00:17:36.590 --> 00:17:37.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:17:37.020 --> 00:17:43.120 Brian Muldoon: As if they're his best friend. Anyway, His Holiness held Wayne's hand the entire meeting.
00:17:43.310 --> 00:17:52.600 Brian Muldoon: And, Wayne became a substitute, really, for Thomas Merton, great Catholic mystic.
00:17:52.600 --> 00:17:54.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, Thomas Merton was wonderful.
00:17:55.380 --> 00:18:01.400 Brian Muldoon: And… and Merton died, sadly, I think it was 1968.
00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:06.270 Brian Muldoon: He was electrocuted at… accidentally at a meeting in…
00:18:06.550 --> 00:18:22.090 Brian Muldoon: I think Thailand. But anyway, after losing Merton, the Dalai Lama was really looking for someone who embodied the Christian ethic of humility, service to others, compassion.
00:18:22.110 --> 00:18:27.829 Brian Muldoon: The strong helping the weak. And Wayne really embodied that.
00:18:27.830 --> 00:18:28.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:18:28.430 --> 00:18:37.100 Brian Muldoon: To get to know him, he would… seriously, he would walk out of a major meeting if he heard that there was a small bird
00:18:37.410 --> 00:18:41.200 Brian Muldoon: That had tried to fledge and just plop down on the sidewalk.
00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:50.759 Brian Muldoon: As much as… so he didn't care if somebody thought they were important or not, Wayne really connected at the heart level.
00:18:51.020 --> 00:18:51.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:18:51.550 --> 00:19:01.609 Brian Muldoon: In any event, over the years, Wayne became very close to His Holiness, and also to the Dalai Lama's younger brother, Tenzin Chogil, or TC.
00:19:02.330 --> 00:19:16.749 Brian Muldoon: And, Wayne and I had become good friends also, and along with Barbara Fields, who was kind of the program director of the Parliament of the World Religions in
00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:18.740 Brian Muldoon: 1999.
00:19:19.030 --> 00:19:27.220 Brian Muldoon: The three of us kind of schemed up a plan to introduce the principles of compassion.
00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:30.120 Brian Muldoon: To a wider audience.
00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:47.330 Brian Muldoon: So, we connected with people who were in business, advertising, education, technology, science, spirituality. We had 40 participants in a week-long conversation with His Holiness.
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:48.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:19:48.110 --> 00:19:59.140 Brian Muldoon: And had another 100 folks or so who were observers, but whose observation really helped, enliven the conversation as well.
00:19:59.430 --> 00:20:12.600 Brian Muldoon: So, this was, you know, just a life-changing event for me. Kind of my job was to head the facilitation of conversations, so…
00:20:12.910 --> 00:20:22.430 Brian Muldoon: Control the mic, bring out issues that need to be addressed, try to spark a conversation among the participants, that kind of thing.
00:20:22.600 --> 00:20:36.250 Brian Muldoon: So that, as I said, was life-changing, to be in… not only in presence of the Dalai Lama, but in conversation with them as well.
00:20:36.250 --> 00:20:37.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:42.049 Brian Muldoon: It's an extraordinary opportunity for everyone who participated.
00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:44.089 Brian Muldoon: And also a challenge.
00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:45.900 Brian Muldoon: Because…
00:20:46.380 --> 00:21:04.300 Brian Muldoon: You know, we always think, well, if I could just get to know so-and-so, that would change my life, you know? So, everybody was very anxious to have their lifelong studies or activities acknowledged and appreciated by the Dalai Lama.
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:17.909 Brian Muldoon: So there was a fair amount of, sort of, scuffling with, I don't need to hear more than 2 minutes of your opinion about something, I have something I'd like to say. And so, all of us…
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:25.849 Brian Muldoon: Found that our egos were very much opened up and exposed to all the world.
00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:41.249 Brian Muldoon: And there was… there was a documentary made about the event called Dalai Lama Renaissance, which I strongly encourage your listeners to get, just to kind of,
00:21:42.110 --> 00:21:54.050 Brian Muldoon: Embarrassingly, frank, exploration of the ego obstacles, to, to becoming more conscious in the world.
00:21:54.270 --> 00:21:56.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm. Interesting, interesting.
00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:57.530 Brian Muldoon: So, yep, so…
00:21:57.930 --> 00:21:59.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, and I…
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:13.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Many of my listeners know, and I think we mentioned in our pre-show conversation, that, you know, monks hold a very special place in my heart, because the founder of the radio station, of TalkRadio.nyc became a Theravada monk.
00:22:14.600 --> 00:22:27.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and that I bought the station from him in order to enable him to go. He was selling off all his worldly possessions, so he now spends his life meditating in the forests of Thailand and Malaysia.
00:22:27.540 --> 00:22:30.570 Brian Muldoon: Wow. Well, that's pretty profound, yes.
00:22:30.570 --> 00:22:31.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:22:33.270 --> 00:22:41.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But you had… in your bio, it said that you had a pretty young calling to this idea of a monastic life.
00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:54.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. Was there something that affected you when you were younger? Or was it just sort of a natural pull, or was it just exposure to something? Like, how did you happen to, you know, be curious or lean in that direction?
00:22:54.780 --> 00:22:59.409 Brian Muldoon: Well, it all comes back to, really tasty bread.
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:19.750 Brian Muldoon: When I was about 5 years old, my family, which was very actively Roman Catholic, we'd gone on… we'd lived on the East Coast at the time, and we went for a drive in the Smoky Mountains, and
00:23:20.150 --> 00:23:26.549 Brian Muldoon: there was a Trappist monastery there, and we stopped to talk to the monks.
00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:43.689 Brian Muldoon: who had all taken a vow of silence, by the way. So they were kind of short conversations. But anyway, we had stopped there, and I saw these guys who just seemed to be very happy, very…
00:23:43.690 --> 00:23:55.589 Brian Muldoon: comfortable in the world, these monks, and… and to support the monastery, they baked bread, so these monks sold their bread on the open market.
00:23:55.590 --> 00:24:10.589 Brian Muldoon: And I had some of his best bread I'd ever had. That's what I kind of remember about the visit. But in… sort of in the Catholic legends, there's this idea that if a mother
00:24:10.590 --> 00:24:18.540 Brian Muldoon: basically donates one of her sons to the priesthood. She earns a complete
00:24:18.780 --> 00:24:26.190 Brian Muldoon: Pass on any kind of sinful behavior she might have ever committed in the course of her lifetime.
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:27.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So…
00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:32.429 Brian Muldoon: So there was kind of unspoken pressure from my mom.
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:38.490 Brian Muldoon: On me and my two brothers, that maybe one of us would become a priest.
00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:40.610 Brian Muldoon: And I thought.
00:24:40.760 --> 00:24:50.159 Brian Muldoon: That'd be great. It'd make my mom love me even more if I were to do this, you know? And I'm giving her an eternal payoff.
00:24:50.600 --> 00:24:58.080 Brian Muldoon: So I, I, when I was 13, I applied to be admitted to a seminary.
00:24:58.300 --> 00:24:59.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hello.
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:04.610 Brian Muldoon: And, the… The recruitment priest came to my home.
00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:19.190 Brian Muldoon: And he said, well, you seem like a nice enough young man, and maybe this is your calling, but you're also only 13. Don't you think you ought to get to know something about the world?
00:25:19.510 --> 00:25:19.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:25:19.990 --> 00:25:31.330 Brian Muldoon: And I said, well, you're a missionary order. It was the Mary Know missioners. You're a missionary order, so I'll have plenty of opportunity to know the world. And he goes, no, not that world.
00:25:31.630 --> 00:25:32.940 Brian Muldoon: Girls.
00:25:33.380 --> 00:25:43.899 Brian Muldoon: you should really figure that out first. And so I said, I'll check into that. And that was the last that I,
00:25:44.120 --> 00:25:50.979 Brian Muldoon: pursued the seminary, or the priesthood. Still exploring that question.
00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:52.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:25:52.650 --> 00:26:09.670 Brian Muldoon: But anyway, I, you know, as a young… like, my sisters, I have 5 sisters, they all wanted to be nuns when they were of a certain age, and dedicate themselves to the Virgin Mother and all this, so we were all heavily…
00:26:10.150 --> 00:26:10.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha.
00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:19.160 Brian Muldoon: Indoctrinated by the idea that the highest thing you could do in life was to pursue what they call a vocation.
00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:19.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:26.220 Brian Muldoon: So, I actually thought about that all the way through college.
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:27.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:26:27.810 --> 00:26:33.720 Brian Muldoon: And shortly after that, broke the tie, and got married, and…
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And…
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:39.890 Brian Muldoon: I ended up going to law school, which is about as secular as it can be.
00:26:39.890 --> 00:26:42.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As far as you can get, right?
00:26:42.230 --> 00:26:43.400 Brian Muldoon: Exactly.
00:26:43.510 --> 00:26:44.580 Brian Muldoon: Yeah.
00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:52.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, so what… what kind of got you from, sort of, that very, sort of, Catholic mindset
00:26:53.470 --> 00:27:04.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to focus more on spirituality and more on, you know, the interfaith and the broader view of God and spirit.
00:27:06.010 --> 00:27:23.729 Brian Muldoon: Well, certainly attending the Parliament, which was a big event in… that occurred in Chicago, there were 6,000 people who attended in… we had 50… a 50-person facilitation team, so that every day.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:33.189 Brian Muldoon: You would be in kind of organized conversation with other people, all of whom were sharing their own aspirations and practices.
00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:33.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and stuff.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:45.410 Brian Muldoon: So that was a huge influence, because I was very involved in that activity, and helping to set up an ongoing interfaith group after the Parliament.
00:27:46.310 --> 00:27:51.360 Brian Muldoon: But I had actually begun meditating when I was in high school.
00:27:51.740 --> 00:28:02.650 Brian Muldoon: back in the 60s, the Jesuit priests actually brought in a master of meditation to our high school.
00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:03.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, wow.
00:28:03.290 --> 00:28:10.210 Brian Muldoon: And everyone was given the opportunity to learn how to do, basically, Transcendental Meditation.
00:28:10.350 --> 00:28:11.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:28:11.300 --> 00:28:20.909 Brian Muldoon: So, that part of me, you know, it was… it was quieted, but it was still quite active in my consciousness, because
00:28:21.050 --> 00:28:28.070 Brian Muldoon: The idea of pursuing a spiritual path just had an appeal that just wouldn't go away.
00:28:28.070 --> 00:28:29.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:41.329 Brian Muldoon: So when… when I had the opportunity to see people like Thich Nhat Hanh, and the Dalai Lama, and leaders of every form of religion.
00:28:41.360 --> 00:28:58.589 Brian Muldoon: see them all together and see the power of their practice. It really had a big impact on me. And the people who were there and who were very involved basically stayed in contact with over the years.
00:28:58.750 --> 00:29:00.520 Brian Muldoon: So…
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:06.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, so you had already been a long-time meditator by the time you met all these people.
00:29:06.810 --> 00:29:07.590 Brian Muldoon: Yes.
00:29:08.170 --> 00:29:14.979 Brian Muldoon: And Wayne taught me a variety of other meditation techniques, too.
00:29:15.230 --> 00:29:20.709 Brian Muldoon: So… And that became kind of a defining influence.
00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:26.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Got it, got it. Wonderful, wonderful. We just got a minute or two…
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:31.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Before the break, so I want to start talking about the book after the break.
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:42.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But I'm just curious, with your travels and your studies, have you ever experienced what you would consider a mystical experience?
00:29:42.980 --> 00:29:49.330 Brian Muldoon: Oh, yeah. One I, I remember in particular.
00:29:49.700 --> 00:30:07.209 Brian Muldoon: was years ago, someone who had kind of mastered a variety of processes, like, from Est and Lifespring, and had been a consultant to my brother and his company.
00:30:07.580 --> 00:30:22.810 Brian Muldoon: And he paid to have everybody in his employee go through a weekend training with a couple of these facilitators. And I was going through a divorce at the time. He encouraged me to come.
00:30:23.360 --> 00:30:30.310 Brian Muldoon: I said, this sounds silly to me, it's a bunch of woo-woo stuff. He goes, well, I'll pay for it.
00:30:30.470 --> 00:30:33.230 Brian Muldoon: And if you find it useful, you pay me back.
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:37.679 Brian Muldoon: And… and I ex… I was…
00:30:37.850 --> 00:30:50.800 Brian Muldoon: profoundly affected by this, as I learned that our choices in life define us, and we need to take responsibility for that.
00:30:51.330 --> 00:30:54.339 Brian Muldoon: And we're not just victims. Yeah.
00:30:54.650 --> 00:31:13.479 Brian Muldoon: And it both opened me up to the profound sense of loss that I was experiencing in the divorce, and the sort of limitless possibilities for life going forward. So I was having both of those experiences, and…
00:31:13.890 --> 00:31:24.980 Brian Muldoon: And went and learned how to be one of their trainers, and… because I tend to jump in all the way, when I find something I like, so…
00:31:25.280 --> 00:31:28.430 Brian Muldoon: So, I was in…
00:31:28.890 --> 00:31:40.509 Brian Muldoon: And then thought, you know, this business of being a lawyer, is this really my true calling? And so I took a sabbatical.
00:31:40.940 --> 00:31:46.530 Brian Muldoon: and lived down in Puerto Rico for a year and a half, trying to figure out
00:31:46.630 --> 00:31:50.580 Brian Muldoon: An answer to the question, what does it really take
00:31:50.990 --> 00:31:56.340 Brian Muldoon: To bring people to an experience of… of fairness.
00:31:56.470 --> 00:32:02.839 Brian Muldoon: mutual respect and closure. And how does that interface with the legal system?
00:32:03.370 --> 00:32:21.660 Brian Muldoon: And so I spent my time studying the sacred literature and learning what true completion and closure was all about, and mapped out a process
00:32:21.860 --> 00:32:27.989 Brian Muldoon: that was pretty universal for dealing with that. And I thought, well.
00:32:28.110 --> 00:32:42.750 Brian Muldoon: the legal bar in Puerto Rico is not really ready for this, but they tell me if it's popular and successful in the States, maybe they'll do it. So, I had to go back to the…
00:32:42.970 --> 00:32:44.500 Brian Muldoon: the mainland.
00:32:45.130 --> 00:32:50.300 Brian Muldoon: And and started one of the first mediation firms in the country.
00:32:50.300 --> 00:32:51.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: With a couple of…
00:32:51.860 --> 00:32:56.449 Brian Muldoon: So, to me, it was… it was a practice of legal healing.
00:32:56.620 --> 00:32:59.190 Brian Muldoon: It wasn't enough to simply…
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:11.770 Brian Muldoon: get an economic settlement. It needed to go all the way. So, I then wrote a book called The Heart of Conflict about what the steps are for.
00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:14.940 Brian Muldoon: Confronting and resolving conflict.
00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:17.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow, wow, okay.
00:33:17.900 --> 00:33:18.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, we're good.
00:33:18.840 --> 00:33:19.870 Brian Muldoon: Say again?
00:33:19.870 --> 00:33:28.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Let's take a quick break, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, let's start talking about your other book, The Lum… how many books have you written, by the way?
00:33:28.390 --> 00:33:30.309 Brian Muldoon: This is just my second… well…
00:33:30.310 --> 00:33:30.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:33:30.870 --> 00:33:34.130 Brian Muldoon: I wrote a couple of practice novels, but .
00:33:34.130 --> 00:33:34.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:33:34.510 --> 00:33:35.819 Brian Muldoon: This is the second real boy.
00:33:35.820 --> 00:33:37.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: second published book.
00:33:37.040 --> 00:33:37.560 Brian Muldoon: Yep.
00:33:37.560 --> 00:33:42.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, and so let's start talking about that, the luminous one, when we come back from break, okay?
00:33:42.800 --> 00:33:58.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sure. All right, everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to The Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. We do this every Wednesday, 12 noon to 1 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on talkradio.nyc and all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:03.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Brian Muldoon, author of the new book, The Luminous One, in just a moment.
00:35:17.590 --> 00:35:23.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Brian, you wrote this book, The Luminous One. What was the…
00:35:24.120 --> 00:35:27.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Kind of kernel or seed of inspiration for this book.
00:35:29.620 --> 00:35:33.449 Brian Muldoon: Well, I would say irritation.
00:35:34.850 --> 00:35:37.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, irritation with what?
00:35:38.050 --> 00:35:42.599 Brian Muldoon: With conventional, religious structures.
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:43.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:35:43.410 --> 00:35:50.840 Brian Muldoon: you know, I think many times when people say they have a certain belief.
00:35:51.930 --> 00:35:56.760 Brian Muldoon: That's not actually true. I mean, it's true that they think they do, but…
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:57.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:35:57.260 --> 00:36:03.290 Brian Muldoon: Many times I think, people purport to believe in something
00:36:03.660 --> 00:36:08.229 Brian Muldoon: But are not able to explain or defend it, or judge.
00:36:08.230 --> 00:36:08.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's the.
00:36:08.640 --> 00:36:10.279 Brian Muldoon: In any way.
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:36:11.080 --> 00:36:12.600 Brian Muldoon: So…
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:25.080 Brian Muldoon: So, you know, as I said, I grew up, you know, strongly Roman Catholic. I was an altar boy for years, and, you know, I just kind of was in love with incense, and…
00:36:25.310 --> 00:36:25.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:36:25.870 --> 00:36:28.609 Brian Muldoon: Latin incantations.
00:36:28.990 --> 00:36:33.470 Brian Muldoon: But, I had come to a point in my life
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:40.690 Brian Muldoon: you know, I had been sort of sending out little probes out to the universe to figure out
00:36:41.040 --> 00:36:43.530 Brian Muldoon: What was the kind of true path?
00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:44.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:48.189 Brian Muldoon: And what would it take to actually walk that path?
00:36:48.410 --> 00:36:49.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:57.199 Brian Muldoon: And so, I joined and unjoined a number of practices.
00:36:57.400 --> 00:37:05.830 Brian Muldoon: spent time doing Native American prayer circles. I went through Christian science training.
00:37:07.290 --> 00:37:17.539 Brian Muldoon: You know, if somebody had an opening to a practice that seemed like it held real possibility, I jumped in.
00:37:17.870 --> 00:37:26.299 Brian Muldoon: So I had gone through a number of these, and I thought, none of these really is what I actually believe.
00:37:26.380 --> 00:37:27.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They're…
00:37:27.330 --> 00:37:33.469 Brian Muldoon: They're filled with things that are not believable by anybody, and I'm not gonna pretend that I do.
00:37:33.770 --> 00:37:38.049 Brian Muldoon: But there's a powerful kernel in there, and…
00:37:38.190 --> 00:37:45.160 Brian Muldoon: That is… that's what needs to be located in, and and our inspiration.
00:37:45.420 --> 00:37:52.349 Brian Muldoon: I… I happened to be on a trek with some friends through the Himalayas.
00:37:52.810 --> 00:37:56.280 Brian Muldoon: Guided by a Tibetan monk.
00:37:56.610 --> 00:38:10.459 Brian Muldoon: we had helped fund the construction of a school in, kind of, remote Zhanskar, which is a place nobody's ever heard of, but it's the very tippy-top northernmost part of India.
00:38:10.490 --> 00:38:29.640 Brian Muldoon: And when you land there, it's easily 10,000 feet, and as we trekked along, we got to over 17,000 feet elevation. Wow. So… and Zanskar is incredibly beautiful.
00:38:29.830 --> 00:38:45.300 Brian Muldoon: It's dry, high mountains, and so as we were trekking along, each of us kind of fell into our own cadence as we walked, and I remember just, walking along this path and hearing the most beautiful.
00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:51.349 Brian Muldoon: song I'd ever heard from… from a songbird sitting on a rock.
00:38:51.350 --> 00:38:51.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow.
00:38:51.950 --> 00:38:52.999 Brian Muldoon: side the road.
00:38:53.160 --> 00:39:10.009 Brian Muldoon: And it just made me stop. And… because I had been thinking, well, should I really take up this monastic thing again? Should I really commit myself to that? And if I did, would I want to be a Catholic monk, or a Buddhist monk, or what kind of monk would I be?
00:39:10.640 --> 00:39:18.639 Brian Muldoon: And so all this is going through my head, and I stopped when I heard that bird singing.
00:39:18.950 --> 00:39:27.199 Brian Muldoon: And I got this sense, somehow, that I was being called by somebody.
00:39:27.770 --> 00:39:30.430 Brian Muldoon: And it was like, come find me.
00:39:31.200 --> 00:39:36.120 Brian Muldoon: And I thought, There's just piles of rubble the way here.
00:39:36.560 --> 00:39:40.870 Brian Muldoon: And the feeling I had was, Find Jesus.
00:39:41.300 --> 00:39:42.450 Brian Muldoon: In the rubble.
00:39:42.560 --> 00:39:46.920 Brian Muldoon: Because that rubble is the institution that was built around him.
00:39:47.490 --> 00:39:48.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:39:48.490 --> 00:39:56.389 Brian Muldoon: But you've got to dig deep to find him, and you've got to clear away the rubble to get there.
00:39:56.640 --> 00:39:58.340 Brian Muldoon: And I thought, okay.
00:39:58.600 --> 00:40:04.699 Brian Muldoon: I'm gonna write about what I really believe. I'm gonna write about a Jesus you can really believe in.
00:40:05.520 --> 00:40:07.700 Brian Muldoon: Not the legendary one.
00:40:08.290 --> 00:40:11.940 Brian Muldoon: Because I'd done some study of…
00:40:12.530 --> 00:40:25.550 Brian Muldoon: biblical scholars, and, you know, had the usual, kind of awakenings that the Gospels were not written by anyone who knew him. They were all hearsay.
00:40:26.040 --> 00:40:32.379 Brian Muldoon: And hearsay is not reliable, as any trial lawyer will tell you.
00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:47.479 Brian Muldoon: And people's memory, generally, is terrible. So, this is… the Bible is like the last document you would ever want to rely on to establish what was true.
00:40:47.880 --> 00:41:02.600 Brian Muldoon: And I thought, it is really critical that it be true, not somebody's fantasy, or secretly acting like you believe in Santa Claus, but of course you don't really.
00:41:02.600 --> 00:41:03.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:41:03.620 --> 00:41:08.469 Brian Muldoon: And I'm a believer in good stories, so…
00:41:09.060 --> 00:41:17.930 Brian Muldoon: So I took a look at the 18-year period known generally as the Lost Years of Jesus.
00:41:18.630 --> 00:41:30.950 Brian Muldoon: In the Bible, in one of the Gospels, they have him as a 12-year-old boy, quite brilliant, kind of a prodigy, speaking to the elders in the Jerusalem temple.
00:41:31.990 --> 00:41:50.589 Brian Muldoon: about matters of theology, and then there's not a word about him until he appears at age 30, and supposedly is starting his ministry. So there's an 18-year gap there, the lost years. I thought that's where the story goes, and the story is…
00:41:50.590 --> 00:41:51.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:41:51.310 --> 00:41:54.710 Brian Muldoon: How do you become somebody like Jesus?
00:41:54.890 --> 00:42:08.879 Brian Muldoon: Because wasn't that kind of the point? I mean, we see signs everywhere saying, I follow Jesus. Well, if you do, you're gonna… you're gonna have a very different experience, because that was a path that's not easy.
00:42:09.210 --> 00:42:13.359 Brian Muldoon: It was a path that is well known by many traditions.
00:42:13.680 --> 00:42:14.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:42:14.170 --> 00:42:15.440 Brian Muldoon: Mystic Path.
00:42:15.990 --> 00:42:26.879 Brian Muldoon: Because they have different words for it, but whether it's mastering your ego, or developing compassion, or loving everyone, even your enemies.
00:42:27.380 --> 00:42:43.980 Brian Muldoon: there is a process of overcoming that which holds us down, our ego and our limitations in that way. And all these paths ask that of us, that we do whatever it is necessary
00:42:44.040 --> 00:42:47.529 Brian Muldoon: To have that transcendental moment, that contact.
00:42:48.110 --> 00:42:50.429 Brian Muldoon: and so…
00:42:50.430 --> 00:42:54.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did Jesus have no ego, or did he have an enlightened ego?
00:42:54.510 --> 00:43:05.089 Brian Muldoon: Well, I don't know, but I would have to say it's an enlightened one. Okay. Because, like all human beings, he developed.
00:43:05.560 --> 00:43:14.740 Brian Muldoon: Meaning, he wasn't just some golden puff of divine air that somehow settled.
00:43:14.930 --> 00:43:30.170 Brian Muldoon: like a cloud on the world. No, he was a man, he was a human being, and as you probably know, there was the Council of Nicaea. What, 345 or something like that?
00:43:30.650 --> 00:43:33.129 Brian Muldoon: And that dealt with the question of.
00:43:33.450 --> 00:43:47.449 Brian Muldoon: whether he was begotten or made. That became a big issue. And did he have a divine nature as well as a human nature? Well, we hear a lot about the divine nature, and almost nothing about the human nature.
00:43:47.450 --> 00:43:48.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yep.
00:43:48.160 --> 00:43:51.650 Brian Muldoon: So the reality, I think we can say, is true.
00:43:51.910 --> 00:44:02.659 Brian Muldoon: is that he was a Jewish peasant who had some extraordinary experiences and was very charismatic and drew people in.
00:44:03.070 --> 00:44:07.430 Brian Muldoon: But I don't see much evidence for his trying to start a new church, or…
00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:13.560 Brian Muldoon: you know, any of that. He was trying to be a good Jew, that's why he was quizzed on those things, you know.
00:44:13.560 --> 00:44:13.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.539 Brian Muldoon: What are the commands?
00:44:15.850 --> 00:44:19.680 Brian Muldoon: So, part of my, ambition
00:44:20.050 --> 00:44:23.339 Brian Muldoon: was to restore that humanity to Him.
00:44:23.730 --> 00:44:24.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:44:24.370 --> 00:44:26.239 Brian Muldoon: Start digging through the rubble.
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:28.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what's the premise for the book?
00:44:30.610 --> 00:44:32.959 Brian Muldoon: That there is a path.
00:44:33.730 --> 00:44:38.239 Brian Muldoon: And each of us Is capable of finding it if we look hard enough.
00:44:38.510 --> 00:44:39.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:43.460 Brian Muldoon: And the benefit of that is extreme.
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:44.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:44:44.370 --> 00:44:50.649 Brian Muldoon: But we need to learn To, to, to live with,
00:44:51.110 --> 00:44:58.200 Brian Muldoon: contradiction and paradox and ambiguity.
00:44:58.460 --> 00:45:02.500 Brian Muldoon: As, as we're walking that path.
00:45:03.060 --> 00:45:08.889 Brian Muldoon: And shy away from anything That would have us pronouncing
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:18.419 Brian Muldoon: That whatever way we've come across is the only way, or the true way, or… no, there are an infinite number of ways.
00:45:19.100 --> 00:45:23.950 Brian Muldoon: And each of us, even if we think we're following somebody else's path, We're not.
00:45:24.200 --> 00:45:31.770 Brian Muldoon: Even if we think that our spiritual life is being dictated as part of a formula, We're not.
00:45:31.950 --> 00:45:38.429 Brian Muldoon: Each of us is… As my dad used to say, the captains of our own ship.
00:45:39.060 --> 00:45:44.249 Brian Muldoon: We're all fully… the only one who has authority over us is ourselves.
00:45:44.810 --> 00:45:48.580 Brian Muldoon: And everything else is just giving it away.
00:45:48.890 --> 00:45:59.909 Brian Muldoon: So… so the… the premise is, find that path, give yourself the freedom to explore, and honor your own imagination.
00:46:00.270 --> 00:46:09.849 Brian Muldoon: So at the beginning of the book, I say, this is a book of… a work of fiction. This is not true, not in a literal sense.
00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:15.900 Brian Muldoon: Hopefully it's true in an ethical sense, but…
00:46:16.010 --> 00:46:19.320 Brian Muldoon: But let's start with the idea, the admission.
00:46:19.930 --> 00:46:21.879 Brian Muldoon: That it's just a story.
00:46:22.010 --> 00:46:25.180 Brian Muldoon: But, you know, we get a lot out of stories.
00:46:25.180 --> 00:46:25.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:46:25.910 --> 00:46:26.710 Brian Muldoon: the, the best.
00:46:26.710 --> 00:46:27.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's how we learn.
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:29.060 Brian Muldoon: Yes, exactly.
00:46:29.310 --> 00:46:34.159 Brian Muldoon: So, this is a story, it's one that I made up. Make up your own.
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:35.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:41.839 Brian Muldoon: You know, or, or, or do something that, you know, you remember,
00:46:42.670 --> 00:46:47.450 Brian Muldoon: what was it called? The Twilight Zone with Rod Serling? Yes.
00:46:47.450 --> 00:46:49.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Love that, so…
00:46:49.250 --> 00:46:57.830 Brian Muldoon: Yeah, a great program, and that little introduction that he gave at the beginning of the show.
00:46:57.940 --> 00:47:07.279 Brian Muldoon: I can still see that black and white TV, and he's got his cigarette, and he's looking at you like he knows more than you ever will imagine.
00:47:07.470 --> 00:47:15.709 Brian Muldoon: And he says, There's a place that's beyond the universe, that's bigger than anything we could imagine.
00:47:15.830 --> 00:47:17.920 Brian Muldoon: And that's the realm of imagination.
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:18.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: imagination.
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:27.729 Brian Muldoon: Yeah, and we have to fess up to how powerfully we use imagination in everything that we do.
00:47:28.110 --> 00:47:31.079 Brian Muldoon: Let's do the same thing with our spiritual path.
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:32.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:47:32.230 --> 00:47:38.949 Brian Muldoon: Let's not pretend that this is, you know, a given,
00:47:38.950 --> 00:47:39.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and dipped.
00:47:39.430 --> 00:47:40.780 Brian Muldoon: divine scripture.
00:47:41.020 --> 00:47:48.350 Brian Muldoon: Let's play with it and see what we can learn from our own version.
00:47:48.660 --> 00:47:49.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:47:50.090 --> 00:47:50.890 Brian Muldoon: Soon.
00:47:51.030 --> 00:47:59.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious, what was the most difficult part about writing this book? Since it is a work of fiction, you're basing it on a historical
00:47:59.830 --> 00:48:08.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a figure whose certain period of time we don't know what happened. What was the biggest challenge for you in all that?
00:48:10.790 --> 00:48:18.880 Brian Muldoon: Well, my goal was to open up an avenue for people to appreciate him.
00:48:19.300 --> 00:48:20.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:26.590 Brian Muldoon: Because I think that there's, something kind of twisted.
00:48:27.160 --> 00:48:30.929 Brian Muldoon: In our depiction of Jesus.
00:48:30.930 --> 00:48:31.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:48:31.750 --> 00:48:33.729 Brian Muldoon: That what we have not done.
00:48:33.850 --> 00:48:41.040 Brian Muldoon: is grieve him. Grieve his loss. If he was anything like… The stories about him.
00:48:41.350 --> 00:48:43.849 Brian Muldoon: Then he's somebody you would really love.
00:48:44.190 --> 00:48:53.919 Brian Muldoon: But that kind of love I haven't seen much of, you know, within the… and it's because you were talking about how we resist
00:48:54.120 --> 00:48:57.090 Brian Muldoon: Any kind of rejection.
00:48:58.710 --> 00:49:10.030 Brian Muldoon: Because if you're not really embracing it, it's gonna do damage, and I would say grief is the same thing. Yeah, 100%. If you have unexpressed grief.
00:49:10.180 --> 00:49:20.609 Brian Muldoon: And who would you have more grief for if you had lived at that time and had met this powerful figure who invited you into his world?
00:49:21.180 --> 00:49:24.060 Brian Muldoon: You would have been devastated by his loss.
00:49:24.430 --> 00:49:24.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:49:24.990 --> 00:49:35.189 Brian Muldoon: And… And, you know, just kind of my… Personal view is… that… That his story alone
00:49:35.470 --> 00:49:37.340 Brian Muldoon: And it's one of tragedy.
00:49:39.020 --> 00:49:48.799 Brian Muldoon: should not be symbolized by a crucifix, a weapon of incredible pain and torture and humiliation.
00:49:48.970 --> 00:49:50.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I've heard people…
00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:51.660 Brian Muldoon: to be celebrated.
00:49:51.660 --> 00:49:57.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, I've heard people criticize that the way it's depicted, it's almost like a death cult.
00:49:57.820 --> 00:49:58.330 Brian Muldoon: Yeah.
00:49:58.330 --> 00:50:01.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Celebrating a death of a human being, not his life.
00:50:01.970 --> 00:50:12.040 Brian Muldoon: Exactly. And, you know, there's kind of an obvious reason for that. If we celebrated his life, then we'd probably have to try to imitate it.
00:50:12.040 --> 00:50:13.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right.
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:15.309 Brian Muldoon: You know, this lets us off.
00:50:15.460 --> 00:50:29.550 Brian Muldoon: off the hook. It's like, oh no, he saved you. And they have this very convoluted idea of what goes into being saved, and by the way, what was it we were saved from?
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:30.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:50:30.810 --> 00:50:37.129 Brian Muldoon: You know, the envelope has not been opened on many of these questions yet, so…
00:50:37.130 --> 00:50:37.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:50:37.950 --> 00:50:42.090 Brian Muldoon: But my goal was to at least have people thinking about these things.
00:50:42.090 --> 00:50:42.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:50:42.550 --> 00:50:44.200 Brian Muldoon: Make that more available.
00:50:45.330 --> 00:50:49.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, a long time ago, I read this thin little book.
00:50:50.790 --> 00:50:59.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that was written by two Jewish scholars, Who took the, ancient Greek texts.
00:50:59.680 --> 00:51:03.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and translated them back into the original Aramaic.
00:51:03.680 --> 00:51:04.080 Brian Muldoon: So, look.
00:51:04.080 --> 00:51:13.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: at the language and the idioms, and to kind of understand, really, what… and then this little book was called What Jesus Really Meant.
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:14.530 Brian Muldoon: Hmm.
00:51:15.090 --> 00:51:18.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it was trying to put things back into context.
00:51:19.020 --> 00:51:19.610 Brian Muldoon: Yeah.
00:51:19.610 --> 00:51:36.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and how things like his mother Mary being a virgin, the word that was used was the word for a young maiden, not a virgin, but they were often equated, but they weren't necessarily the same thing.
00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:50.080 Brian Muldoon: Right, and that is the case with a lot. I mean, I don't speak Aramaic, but, you know, I've read an Aramaic version of the Lord's Prayer, the Our Father.
00:51:50.510 --> 00:52:00.859 Brian Muldoon: Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful. You know, in a way that it never could be in Greek, which is what the Bible was written in.
00:52:00.940 --> 00:52:15.859 Brian Muldoon: Yeah, and so we have these scholarly revelations about what was said, what was done, what was the environment at the time.
00:52:16.170 --> 00:52:16.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.719 Brian Muldoon: For example, the word Christian wasn't even used.
00:52:19.720 --> 00:52:32.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right. There was no such thing as a Christian back then. And from what I recall, they said, you know, he actually didn't preach to non-Jews. He purely taught to Jewish people of his time.
00:52:32.810 --> 00:52:34.270 Brian Muldoon: Right. Yep.
00:52:34.990 --> 00:52:39.609 Brian Muldoon: And the Jew adjacent, like the woman from Samaria.
00:52:39.730 --> 00:52:40.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:52:40.700 --> 00:52:47.820 Brian Muldoon: Yeah. Right, and so then the question I have is, why do we not completely embrace
00:52:48.450 --> 00:53:01.629 Brian Muldoon: the truths of this. Why do we insist on saying things like she was a virgin? Which makes no sense, and doesn't do a single thing for you spiritually, as far as I can tell.
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:02.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:53:02.200 --> 00:53:08.480 Brian Muldoon: I mean, it gives a… you can create a statue, and pray to the statue, and, you know, have a rosary, but…
00:53:09.030 --> 00:53:13.690 Brian Muldoon: You don't need her to have this mysterious.
00:53:13.690 --> 00:53:14.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:53:14.290 --> 00:53:19.399 Brian Muldoon: birth narrative in order to get to the meat of it.
00:53:20.350 --> 00:53:21.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:53:21.330 --> 00:53:26.490 Brian Muldoon: I think there's a big challenge these days, because the scholarship's been pretty darn good.
00:53:26.670 --> 00:53:26.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:53:27.090 --> 00:53:28.859 Brian Muldoon: On a number of these.
00:53:29.030 --> 00:53:34.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I imagine… You know, writing a book… on Jesus.
00:53:35.050 --> 00:53:37.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In this way,
00:53:37.710 --> 00:53:54.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it could be kind of tricky. Like, a lot of people could get very offended by it. I'm wondering, how has the reception of your book been? Have people liked it? Have you gotten criticisms by it? Have you gotten, you know, death threats from people saying, how dare you?
00:53:54.500 --> 00:54:01.669 Brian Muldoon: Yeah. Well, that was actually the real answer to your question, which I avoided answering, I think.
00:54:02.270 --> 00:54:03.920 Brian Muldoon: Which is…
00:54:04.310 --> 00:54:19.299 Brian Muldoon: Certainly, and that's why I put a disclaimer at the beginning of the book. Hey, this is… this is not the truth, or trying to correct the prevailing narrative or anything else. This is a made-up exercise.
00:54:20.410 --> 00:54:24.610 Brian Muldoon: But that does not stop people from having a reaction.
00:54:24.610 --> 00:54:25.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:54:25.090 --> 00:54:29.420 Brian Muldoon: Some have. For the most part, people have been
00:54:29.630 --> 00:54:32.779 Brian Muldoon: I think felt a kind of sense of relief.
00:54:33.340 --> 00:54:40.010 Brian Muldoon: It's like, oh, there's… there's a way I can actually retain my rational mind.
00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:40.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:54:40.820 --> 00:54:44.050 Brian Muldoon: And be spiritually ambitious as well.
00:54:44.270 --> 00:54:54.429 Brian Muldoon: I don't have to, you know… because generally, a lot of religions charge a fee up front, and that fee is your beliefs.
00:54:54.430 --> 00:54:55.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mmm.
00:54:55.880 --> 00:55:03.189 Brian Muldoon: You know, sign over a belief in things that in your mind and in your heart, could not possibly be true.
00:55:04.170 --> 00:55:10.600 Brian Muldoon: In the existence of life, since time immemorial.
00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:21.769 Brian Muldoon: Human beings have never been able to produce other beings without male and female contributions to the process, so…
00:55:21.770 --> 00:55:22.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, it is.
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:28.719 Brian Muldoon: Again, I would say, what's the point of having a belief that's patently false?
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:29.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:39.659 Brian Muldoon: But that… on the other hand, there are a lot of people who are not interested, really, in the truth, because they have an alternative reality.
00:55:39.930 --> 00:55:40.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:55:41.070 --> 00:55:43.169 Brian Muldoon: And in my own family.
00:55:43.170 --> 00:55:43.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:55:44.050 --> 00:55:48.979 Brian Muldoon: A couple of my siblings, did not greet it warmly.
00:55:49.210 --> 00:55:54.529 Brian Muldoon: But, happy to say, have come around. I have a brother who's a deacon, and.
00:55:54.530 --> 00:55:55.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:55:55.310 --> 00:56:00.760 Brian Muldoon: And, this is not the conventional story.
00:56:01.040 --> 00:56:01.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:56:01.860 --> 00:56:07.160 Brian Muldoon: But… but fortunately, he's been very forgiving and open-minded about it, and…
00:56:07.470 --> 00:56:09.440 Brian Muldoon: I think sees that it, it…
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:11.869 Brian Muldoon: It makes sense at some level.
00:56:13.640 --> 00:56:17.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What did you learn about yourself through this whole process?
00:56:19.120 --> 00:56:28.389 Brian Muldoon: Oh, well, that all the things that I guess I would criticize others for, I am guilty of myself.
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:34.679 Brian Muldoon: Namely, if, if I really am,
00:56:35.480 --> 00:56:40.950 Brian Muldoon: Offering this as kind of a… a guide or an exemplar,
00:56:41.150 --> 00:56:43.740 Brian Muldoon: I should be living this life as well.
00:56:44.080 --> 00:56:44.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:56:44.440 --> 00:56:52.720 Brian Muldoon: I should be… following… I should not, as the great ethicist Peter Singer said.
00:56:52.950 --> 00:56:53.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:56:53.960 --> 00:56:58.250 Brian Muldoon: Every time I have a cup of coffee, from Starbucks.
00:56:58.830 --> 00:57:01.140 Brian Muldoon: I'm letting another child starve.
00:57:01.730 --> 00:57:02.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm…
00:57:03.350 --> 00:57:09.560 Brian Muldoon: You know, and the message of helping those who need help
00:57:09.720 --> 00:57:19.610 Brian Muldoon: you know, I… I'm… I'm a disappointment to myself in all the things I could be doing, but that I'm not.
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:27.819 Brian Muldoon: Because of my own… financial… Interests or insecurities or whatever.
00:57:28.310 --> 00:57:32.089 Brian Muldoon: Because it's a hard path to walk.
00:57:32.430 --> 00:57:32.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:57:32.830 --> 00:57:37.680 Brian Muldoon: I mean, it has its wonderful upsides, but it's… it's not… not easy.
00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:39.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:48.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, Brian, it's been a pleasure having you on the show. It's wonderful to talk to someone who has,
00:57:49.530 --> 00:57:59.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I don't want to say practical, but grounded take on things that often are not approached in a grounded way when it comes to spirituality, and…
00:57:59.130 --> 00:58:08.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and religion. If people want to learn more about the book, learn more about you, is there a place they can go online?
00:58:08.410 --> 00:58:15.910 Brian Muldoon: Sure, well, the book is downloadable from Amazon.
00:58:15.910 --> 00:58:17.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:58:17.030 --> 00:58:26.180 Brian Muldoon: So it's called the Luminous One, which is how he was originally called in China when Christianity first came to China in the 5th century.
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:27.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Aww.
00:58:27.140 --> 00:58:31.610 Brian Muldoon: they actually blended Christian teachings with Taoism.
00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:32.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh.
00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:41.370 Brian Muldoon: And in the Taoist tradition, he was, like, the embodiment of the enlightened man.
00:58:41.670 --> 00:58:44.760 Brian Muldoon: So, they called him, and we still have…
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:59.379 Brian Muldoon: evidence from… from that time, so that's where I stole the title. Okay. So, it can be, at Amazon, and also at my website, brianmuldoonlaw.com.
00:59:00.130 --> 00:59:02.609 Brian Muldoon: Because I still do practice law, so…
00:59:02.610 --> 00:59:03.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: here, still.
00:59:03.470 --> 00:59:04.160 Brian Muldoon: Yeah.
00:59:04.160 --> 00:59:04.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright.
00:59:05.560 --> 00:59:11.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, listen, Brian, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come on the show, I really appreciate it.
00:59:11.250 --> 00:59:14.310 Brian Muldoon: I enjoyed the conversation, Sam. Thanks for having me.
00:59:14.380 --> 00:59:33.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Absolutely, my pleasure. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show. And don't forget, if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio.nyc and on your favorite podcast application, like Apple, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio, we're in all of them.
00:59:33.680 --> 00:59:38.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you so much for tuning in. Take care, we will talk to you all next week.
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