This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes David Pantano, historian, researcher, and a leading voice in exploring the depths of Western esoteric traditions, particularly the Italian Hermetic lineage.
Based in Toronto, David has devoted his life to uncovering and translating rare teachings that bridge ancient wisdom with modern consciousness, offering a path that is both scholarly and deeply experiential.
In this fascinating conversation, David shares insights from his extensive body of work, including his latest books, Alchemical Hermeticism: The Secret Teachings of Marco Daffi on Initiation, and The Hermetic Book of the Dead: Secret Rituals for Navigating the Astral Plane in the Afterlife.
Drawing from figures such as Giuliano Kremmerz and the Fraternity of Myriam, he explores how these traditions were never meant to remain abstract philosophies, but rather living systems designed to guide individuals toward direct experience of the transcendent. His work reveals a forgotten dimension of Western spirituality, one rooted in ritual, inner transformation, and the disciplined pursuit of Self-realization.
Together, Sam and David explore what these ancient teachings can offer us today in a world searching for meaning and depth. From navigating the astral plane to understanding the symbolic language of alchemy, this episode invites listeners to look beyond surface spirituality and reconnect with a lineage of wisdom that speaks to the evolution of consciousness itself. It’s a journey into the hidden currents of knowledge that have quietly shaped seekers for centuries and continue to illuminate the path inward.
Tune in and share your own questions about Hermeticism and Alchemy on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/david.pantano.5
https://youtube.com/@davpan1000
Deep, soul-level connections are rare yet profoundly meaningful, arising not from circumstance but from a shared resonance that creates instant trust, authenticity, and heart-centered presence. These “magical meetings” may be fleeting, yet they remind us that true connection transcends time, logic, and even the need for permanence—what matters is the awakening they spark within us. By staying present and open, we can recognize these sacred encounters as moments of spiritual alignment, inviting us to honor the unseen magic woven into everyday life.
True inner transformation begins by turning inward—through practices like deep meditation and cultivating a state of universal love, one can quiet the external world and access a deeper, intuitive realm of consciousness where profound insight and healing emerge. David Pantano emphasizes that Hermetic teachings are not about chasing mystical experiences, but about evolving the self—refining one’s inner nature, confronting limitations, and aligning more fully with a balanced, authentic state of being. Ultimately, this path is a personal journey of exploration and validation, inviting each seeker to discover truth through direct experience and to embody that growth in how they live and connect with others.
00:00:43.630 --> 00:00:59.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators! Welcome to another edition of the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We have a
00:00:59.370 --> 00:01:03.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: fascinating guest in store for you. We're gonna have a magical.
00:01:03.930 --> 00:01:15.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: conversation today, but first, of course, we have my blog post from a couple of years ago. Let me read that for you, and talk about it, and then we'll bring our guest on.
00:01:15.910 --> 00:01:27.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And this one is, is a kind of a cool one. Today's blog post is entitled, Magical Meetings Are Rare and So Precious.
00:01:27.970 --> 00:01:31.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Making a special connection with someone is rare.
00:01:32.420 --> 00:01:38.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Yet every now and then, we come across someone who just feels right to us.
00:01:39.510 --> 00:01:42.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Who it feels natural to be with.
00:01:43.160 --> 00:01:46.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And we know that this relationship feels different.
00:01:48.010 --> 00:01:51.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: It might be just a friend or a mentor.
00:01:51.810 --> 00:01:53.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Or it can end up being a lover.
00:01:54.640 --> 00:02:01.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: The person you might feel… the person might feel like a long-lost brother or sister.
00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:07.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: What type of relationship it is does not really matter.
00:02:08.389 --> 00:02:16.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: For it is all about the resonance we feel with the other person that truly matters.
00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:20.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And the resonance they feel with us.
00:02:21.310 --> 00:02:29.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Intimacy is created in a very short time because the sense of safety is immediate.
00:02:29.730 --> 00:02:33.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: There are no airs and no posturing with each other.
00:02:33.910 --> 00:02:36.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Just a palatable presence.
00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:41.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Because these types of connections are so rare.
00:02:41.510 --> 00:02:45.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: We treat them as more precious than gold.
00:02:46.600 --> 00:02:49.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: As more important than our own advancement.
00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:53.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: We look to support them in any way we can.
00:02:54.320 --> 00:02:56.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And they look to do the same.
00:02:56.890 --> 00:03:01.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Not out of obligation or a sense of responsibility.
00:03:01.830 --> 00:03:07.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: The action comes from our heart, and from a pure place inside us.
00:03:08.630 --> 00:03:13.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: We may not know why we feel this connection and love for another.
00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:18.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Some say that we could have known this person in another life.
00:03:18.690 --> 00:03:22.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Or that there is some ancient history in their bloodline.
00:03:23.200 --> 00:03:25.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: No one really knows.
00:03:26.050 --> 00:03:32.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: All we know for certain is that the experience of it is…
00:03:32.820 --> 00:03:36.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Of it, because it is so out of normal.
00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:37.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Life.
00:03:38.450 --> 00:03:42.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: These meetings are magical and precious beyond measure.
00:03:43.540 --> 00:03:46.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And we always try to treat them that way.
00:03:47.380 --> 00:03:56.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: The funny thing is, we can have that kind of connection at any moment when we are truly ready for it.
00:03:56.660 --> 00:04:00.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: They can come to us when we least expect it.
00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:02.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Or most in need of it.
00:04:03.930 --> 00:04:09.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Or perhaps they show up in our lives at the most random of times.
00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:17.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: When it happens is not as important as just recognizing that it happened.
00:04:17.990 --> 00:04:20.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: That there is someone special in front of us.
00:04:22.200 --> 00:04:32.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And listen to our heart's message, even on the… even if on the outside, the appearance is not what we would normally pay attention to.
00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:36.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: For there's real magic in the world.
00:04:37.060 --> 00:04:39.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: We just have to keep our eyes.
00:04:39.820 --> 00:04:40.989 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Open to it.
00:04:42.390 --> 00:04:46.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Have you had a magical connection with someone lately?
00:04:47.270 --> 00:04:52.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Were you present enough to recognize it when it happened?
00:04:54.380 --> 00:05:02.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: So, I wrote this blog post a couple of years ago, And…
00:05:02.590 --> 00:05:07.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: It was just after meeting somebody at an event.
00:05:10.730 --> 00:05:19.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And… We just, you know, me and this guy, we just had a wonderful conversation, a deep connection.
00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And it wasn't like we had
00:05:22.390 --> 00:05:27.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: that much in common. Like, I was a native New Yorker, he grew up somewhere else.
00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: We had very different life paths.
00:05:32.170 --> 00:05:36.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: But we just felt the same way about so many things.
00:05:37.580 --> 00:05:38.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And…
00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:47.569 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: It was really just… just that moment of connection and that moment of realization was very precious for me.
00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:54.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And it really felt like, hmm, like this is a soul brother to me.
00:05:56.900 --> 00:06:04.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And I was present to it in the moment, I was really enjoying it, I believe they were too.
00:06:04.650 --> 00:06:08.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And the funny thing was.
00:06:08.140 --> 00:06:12.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: like, I don't even think we're still in touch. I mean, I know we met, and…
00:06:13.610 --> 00:06:20.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And we were connected for a little while, but… It's actually keeping
00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:31.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: The relationship going wasn't nearly as important as just that initial experience, as the… the feeling that just came with
00:06:32.030 --> 00:06:34.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: that connection.
00:06:38.430 --> 00:06:42.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And it really just kind of struck me at the time.
00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:48.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And that it reminded me of other times in my life.
00:06:49.290 --> 00:06:50.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Where…
00:06:50.900 --> 00:06:59.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: especially when I was younger, I'd meet somebody, and we'd joke around like we had known each other our whole lives, and we had just met.
00:07:02.080 --> 00:07:05.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And just remembering those precious moments
00:07:07.870 --> 00:07:12.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: you know, at the time, especially when you're younger, you don't always appreciate it. You don't always…
00:07:13.960 --> 00:07:20.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: You're not always as present to how valuable those little magical moments are.
00:07:22.010 --> 00:07:26.599 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: But as you get older, they start to mean more to you.
00:07:28.420 --> 00:07:36.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And, yeah, and so I just… it was my inspiration for writing this blog post.
00:07:37.370 --> 00:07:40.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Because it's one of those, like, little things in life.
00:07:41.350 --> 00:07:47.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: that… Add so much flavor to the world.
00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:52.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And to the world we live in, But how often do we…
00:07:52.490 --> 00:07:55.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: not recognize it. How often do we…
00:07:57.390 --> 00:08:03.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Do we, like, you know, smile at it, and then we move on with our lives, and we don't take the time.
00:08:04.130 --> 00:08:10.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: To really hold it in our hearts, and really recognize how special and precious it is.
00:08:11.300 --> 00:08:16.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: So… I guess my invitation for this week is.
00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:21.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Look at your life. Look at the people you've met over the years.
00:08:21.820 --> 00:08:25.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Whether you're still in touch with them or not, it doesn't matter.
00:08:26.610 --> 00:08:35.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: How many times have you had, and I'm sure it's not many, but just that little magical moment where you connected with someone.
00:08:35.900 --> 00:08:39.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Where it just lit up your heart.
00:08:40.220 --> 00:08:46.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And again, it could be a co-worker, it could be a friend, it doesn't have to be a partner or a lover.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: It just needs to be someone
00:08:50.770 --> 00:08:55.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: That there was some sort of internal recognition of spirit.
00:08:55.350 --> 00:08:59.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: That really lifted up both Of your souls.
00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:08.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: So, that's my, blog post for this week. It's… the title is, Magical Meetings Are Rare and So Precious.
00:09:08.260 --> 00:09:22.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And of course, you can find my blog on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com, and of course, on the radio station's website as well, at talkradio.nyc slash blog.
00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:28.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And if you like my blog post, you know I have a whole book of really good ones called Everyday Awakening, so…
00:09:28.330 --> 00:09:30.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Don't forget to check those out.
00:09:31.110 --> 00:09:32.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Alright.
00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:48.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Now, it is my pleasure to welcome to the show David Pantano, historian, researcher, and a leading voice in exploring the depths of Western esoteric traditions, particularly the Italian Hermetic lineage.
00:09:48.100 --> 00:10:03.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Based in Toronto, David has devoted his life to uncovering and translating rare teachings that bridge ancient wisdom and modern consciousness, offering a path that is both scholarly and deeply experiential.
00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:21.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: David shares his insights from his extensive body of work, including his, two of his latest books we're going to talk about, Alchemical Hermeticism, The Secret Teachings of Marco Duffy, thank you, and on Initiation.
00:10:21.550 --> 00:10:28.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And the Hermetic Book of the Dead, Secret Rituals for Navigating the Astral Plane in the Afterlife.
00:10:30.210 --> 00:10:32.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Nice.
00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:39.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Thank you. Drawing from figures such as Giuliano,
00:10:39.730 --> 00:10:54.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Kremertz and the Fraternity of Miriam, he explores how these traditions were never meant to remain abstract philosophies, but rather living systems designed to guide individuals towards direct experience of the transcendent.
00:10:55.050 --> 00:11:10.599 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: His work reveals a forgotten dimension of Western spirituality, one rooted in ritual, inner transformation, and the disciplined pursuit of self-realization. Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, David.
00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:20.589 David Pantano: Thank you very much, Sam, and it's great to be here with you. That was a very inspiring opening,
00:11:20.740 --> 00:11:32.529 David Pantano: monologue there, and, I could resonate with many of the points that you brought up, and, I look forward to our conversation, and, over to you.
00:11:32.530 --> 00:11:46.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Yeah, same here, David, same here. Yeah, somehow, you know, I'm just taking these blog posts in order, but somehow they always line up perfectly with whoever I happen to be talking to that day.
00:11:46.670 --> 00:11:54.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: So, you know, I always like to start off, giving the audience just a little bit of background, a little bit of perspective.
00:11:55.430 --> 00:12:08.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: on my guests. So I just have to ask, like, what initially got you interested in these esoteric Western traditions? You know, everyone has sort of their
00:12:09.460 --> 00:12:15.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: own unique path that brings them to this kind of work. I'm just curious what brought you to.
00:12:15.550 --> 00:12:20.509 David Pantano: Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty broad question,
00:12:20.770 --> 00:12:41.369 David Pantano: Because there… in my case, there wasn't one particular instance. I didn't have an awakening, you know, the clouds didn't part, and a hand came down and said, you know, you need to follow this path. I think I just, by… as long as I can remember, in terms of my own self-awareness, I was just…
00:12:41.490 --> 00:12:46.270 David Pantano: Very curious, highly curious of… of…
00:12:47.140 --> 00:13:02.590 David Pantano: the mysterious component to life. So, not just what the inputs from our five senses, but, from our inner senses as well. So, I've got recollections when I was a youth, preschool.
00:13:02.590 --> 00:13:08.440 David Pantano: That, of my awareness, of my thinking, of what's… trying to understand
00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:14.920 David Pantano: The phenomena that's before me, in broader terms than what those inputs, those…
00:13:15.030 --> 00:13:25.520 David Pantano: physical inputs provided. So I think that was the impetus, and then as I got older and started reading more, it kind of…
00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.090 David Pantano: Calibrated my…
00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:39.450 David Pantano: my inner radar in terms of what I was interested in, and what really resonated with me, and what were some of these, truth propositions that I could
00:13:39.450 --> 00:13:54.639 David Pantano: validate myself. So, it was more of, like, an inner… a developmental inner awakening to under… trying to get a sense, an experience of a dimension that's more than what the five senses could provide.
00:13:54.710 --> 00:14:12.760 David Pantano: I know it's kind of… that's kind of broad and general, but that… it's really difficult in a format like this to pinpoint any one component that really triggered my quest in this field, and I do look at it as a quest. I do look at it as we are… in my case, as a seeker.
00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:19.379 David Pantano: as an argonaut of light, and specifically of inner light. And having that…
00:14:19.540 --> 00:14:29.080 David Pantano: understanding of knowing thyself, of what you're interested in, and tying it into a higher purpose than just the I, me, mine.
00:14:29.570 --> 00:14:36.130 David Pantano: Put, directed me towards an orbit, towards a,
00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:42.440 David Pantano: a tangent that, I discuss in my books and that I write about.
00:14:42.760 --> 00:14:57.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: But I think this is important for people to recognize, because although many of my guests got put sort of on their quote-unquote spiritual path because of a particular incident, or there was one thing that moved them over, that there are a lot of people who end up
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:08.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: sort of falling into this, I'll say, just sort of little bit, step by step, through a very gradual process, that it wasn't any one big thing.
00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:21.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: But it just slowly but surely, we kind of get drawn into it, because it's the same as with me. It wasn't like there was any one big thing that did it. It was a lot of things. I mean, there were some big experiences over my time, but…
00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:35.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: But it was really more sort of a gradual one thing led to another, led to another, led to another, led to another. And to me, that's sort of a very organic way that a lot of people come to this kind of stuff.
00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:36.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: I'm…
00:15:36.760 --> 00:15:55.469 David Pantano: That's a nice way of putting it, and as I mentioned earlier, so that was sort of the initial spark, the impetus, and as I matured into my teens and started reading, there were certain currents of knowledge or of a tradition that I gravitated towards.
00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:05.010 David Pantano: there were affinities. And that's specifically in this Italian Hermetic tradition, that really, took root
00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:22.469 David Pantano: with the rediscovery of the Hermetic text, the Corpus Hermeticum, in the mid-1400s, and it was translated into Latin by a Florentine scholar named Marsilio Ficino.
00:16:22.660 --> 00:16:31.819 David Pantano: And this, this, this, those books there, I happened… were available at my local library.
00:16:31.820 --> 00:16:42.729 David Pantano: And when I was reading to them, I connected to them, and it gave me an opportunity to articulate some of these concepts that
00:16:42.730 --> 00:16:51.259 David Pantano: at that stage in my life, I wasn't fully available to articulate, because I didn't have that knowledge and didn't have those
00:16:51.380 --> 00:17:02.550 David Pantano: those life experiences, but which I… which resonated me at a deeper level. And sort of… that was sort of like the… the first awakening, that there's…
00:17:03.710 --> 00:17:28.119 David Pantano: these feelings or these intuitions, these experiences that you have of your inner conscious, that they can be articulated into a doctrine, into a philosophy, that makes sense, and that is open for a seeker to validate or not. And I'm not the type of person
00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:32.760 David Pantano: I come with a, you know, as a Westerner, I come with a very skeptical.
00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:34.839 David Pantano: basis to myself. I don't…
00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:52.890 David Pantano: drink, I don't swallow everything that's presented in front of me. You know, I'm open to ideas, I'm open to concepts, open to perspectives, but with me, for such a thing to really to take root, I need to validate that. So having first-hand experiences.
00:17:52.980 --> 00:18:06.510 David Pantano: To put the practice, or the practicum next to the doctrine or concept is sort of like the modus operandi that… that rooted in me at an early age.
00:18:06.800 --> 00:18:09.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Wonderful, wonderful.
00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:15.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: I always like to be clear for our audience, because I have a very broad, wide audience. So…
00:18:16.340 --> 00:18:23.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: For those people who've maybe heard the term, but don't really understand what it means, what is hermeticism?
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:29.220 David Pantano: Well, Hermeticism, is…
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:41.850 David Pantano: It's a theosophy, in the sense that it, it's a philosophy, it's a practice, it's a,
00:18:42.870 --> 00:18:55.870 David Pantano: it's somewhat of a religion in this… in the doctrinal sense of religious means religious… legeo means to tie, so it's to tie yourself. It's a…
00:18:55.870 --> 00:19:12.149 David Pantano: In the book that I write about alchemical Hermeticism, it's a gnosis. It's a path towards experience, a transcendent state, an altered state of consciousness than one that you wouldn't be able to experience otherwise. So there are a set of practices, they're a set of…
00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:19.279 David Pantano: Of, formulating the mind, or what you call formamentous, is to, to…
00:19:19.310 --> 00:19:36.709 David Pantano: calibrate the mind to be able to pick up these subtle, energies, and that trigger… that set off a series of experiences that you wouldn't be able to experience otherwise in a normal Euclidean.
00:19:36.710 --> 00:19:43.640 David Pantano: sense of the world, that is, you know, of three dimensions, or… or of a linear,
00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:47.450 David Pantano: A linear experience of life, put it that way.
00:19:47.450 --> 00:19:55.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And, I mean, you mentioned these texts from the 1400s. How old is this concept of Hermeticism?
00:19:55.930 --> 00:19:58.639 David Pantano: Well, it, it, it…
00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:11.830 David Pantano: Historical documentation traces it back to Alexandria, in the, I guess, the post-Pharaonic time of Egypt, so we're talking about
00:20:11.930 --> 00:20:17.779 David Pantano: 1st to the 5th century CE.
00:20:17.870 --> 00:20:21.130 David Pantano: Or ED, if that's what you want.
00:20:21.210 --> 00:20:35.350 David Pantano: The oral tradition goes back even further than that, so there are a number of… the central texts are about 18 books that have been recovered so far of the Corpus Hermeticum that,
00:20:35.350 --> 00:20:44.889 David Pantano: talk about a revelation between a divinity or a metaphysical entity called Hermes, Hermes Trismegestis.
00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:45.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: What's up.
00:20:45.530 --> 00:20:49.579 David Pantano: that in the Egypt… that the Egypt… ancient Egyptians called Thoth.
00:20:49.730 --> 00:20:54.590 David Pantano: And the Greco-Romans called, Hermes or Mercury.
00:20:55.330 --> 00:21:12.150 David Pantano: And these books actually talk about that experience, about this basically a series of dialogues, at least in the first few books, where an individual seeker comes to have an experience, like we talked about, like you.
00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:12.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: the beginning.
00:21:12.790 --> 00:21:17.150 David Pantano: of our conversation, where certain aspects of truth
00:21:17.210 --> 00:21:32.589 David Pantano: that he wouldn't know otherwise are discussed with this entity in a transcendent state. So it's very much a philosophy, it's a revelation, it's a series of practices to be able to
00:21:32.590 --> 00:21:42.399 David Pantano: systematically achieve these types of states of Gnosis. It's not so much a religion in the sense that it's, you know, there are hierarchies and so forth.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:55.529 David Pantano: It's a theosophy because it talks about the divine, the divine being that plane of being that transcends the three dimensions that we experience in our ordinary senses.
00:21:55.860 --> 00:22:11.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Gotcha, gotcha. Now, your book, Alchemical Hermeticism, the subtext is The Secret Teachings of Marco Dauffi on Initiation. So, who was Marco Dauffi, and how did you come to find out about him?
00:22:11.820 --> 00:22:28.869 David Pantano: Okay, so in this Italian tradition that I talked about that, really reawoke, because, as I mentioned, that Hermeticism has its, origins in Alexandria, Egypt, in the first few centuries of the Common Era.
00:22:29.110 --> 00:22:47.109 David Pantano: And then, in the Western, with the overthrow of the Roman Empire and the West, what we call the Dark Ages, those texts were lost. So there were, prior to, to that, the Dark Ages, there were, scholars, individuals who…
00:22:47.270 --> 00:22:57.359 David Pantano: Who… who would be immersed or initiated in these hermetical doctrines and practices, but that… that became lost for about a thousand years, until a monk
00:22:57.510 --> 00:23:00.230 David Pantano: in, in Greece,
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:16.790 David Pantano: uncovered a text in a monastery that contained 15 books of the Corpus Hermeticum, and they were written in, in a hieratic language of Greek, and they were brought over to Florence, to this court of the de' Medici.
00:23:16.790 --> 00:23:33.790 David Pantano: And the leading scholar of the day, Marsilio Ficino, translated the 15 books. And then about 3 or 4 other books were rediscovered since that time, and they've been… and that sort of set off the basis of the Western esoteric tradition.
00:23:34.010 --> 00:23:40.710 David Pantano: was that translation of the Corpus Hermeticum in Florence, and a number of scholars
00:23:40.840 --> 00:23:50.229 David Pantano: And Ecclesiastics came to immerse themselves in his book because of the lost wisdom that was contained within them.
00:23:50.780 --> 00:23:58.210 David Pantano: So there… that… nucleus of Hermetic tradition took root in Italy.
00:23:58.310 --> 00:24:15.289 David Pantano: And it kind of over… there's a… there's sort of like an esoteric chain that continues since the time of Ficino that included well-known figures in the esoteric circles, such as Giordano Bruno.
00:24:15.290 --> 00:24:26.040 David Pantano: Cali Ostro, all the way up to the 18th century, where we come across this magus called Giuliano Kremertz, who's a Neapolitan magus.
00:24:26.040 --> 00:24:40.250 David Pantano: who, who focused on a, a, his application of Hermeticism on healing, so similar to what Paracelsus would have done, the Swiss,
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:43.569 David Pantano: Thaumaturge, back in the 1500s.
00:24:44.090 --> 00:24:52.019 David Pantano: And he… Kremertz, founded this school called the Fraternity of Miriam to be able to.
00:24:52.020 --> 00:25:05.190 David Pantano: For individuals to enter into this school to get the basic practices of Hermeticism, and to apply it for healing, for their own healing of themselves, and for others who…
00:25:05.210 --> 00:25:13.560 David Pantano: Who, who, who asked for help, because of traditional medicine wasn't sufficiently healing them.
00:25:13.670 --> 00:25:21.840 David Pantano: So that was sort of the, the, the foundational, or the context. One of, one of the,
00:25:22.370 --> 00:25:37.459 David Pantano: I wouldn't say a student, but an initiate named Prince, or Baron, Richardo Ricciardelli, who was Roman-based, who was contemporary with Kremertz.
00:25:38.120 --> 00:25:56.589 David Pantano: started a correspondence with him to become initiated, to learn these practices, and he took these practices to another level. He applied it more, in his case, not so much onto therapeutic means, but more for divination.
00:25:56.590 --> 00:26:07.050 David Pantano: And for, Thiergi, and… and for his own self-healing, that, he believed that when he would…
00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:19.430 David Pantano: enter into these transcendent states. He would have some past life experiences where, he, he was in a certain context where,
00:26:19.780 --> 00:26:37.230 David Pantano: a transgression occurred that he was responsible for, and that he felt, or that he experienced from this reliving music, this past life transgression, had instilled a karmic impediment
00:26:37.230 --> 00:26:41.229 David Pantano: To his self-development, to his evolution. And that his…
00:26:41.870 --> 00:26:58.310 David Pantano: His role, or his purpose in his current incarnation was to make right that wrong, so he could, he could evolve in his own spiritual, trajectory.
00:26:58.310 --> 00:26:59.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Technology.
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:00.550 David Pantano: Marco Daffey…
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:08.580 David Pantano: learned some of these practices from Kremertz and from the school that Kremertz belonged to, and he took it to…
00:27:08.580 --> 00:27:21.729 David Pantano: to do internal work, called his internal laboratory, to… and that he, he wrote in, that he wrote in various letters and his own journals that expressed his…
00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:32.740 David Pantano: His own gnosis to identify what those impediments were, and how he could correct them in an astral setting.
00:27:33.050 --> 00:27:36.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: No, this was back in the 1800s, right? This is long.
00:27:36.690 --> 00:27:38.659 David Pantano: No, this is actually in the 1900s.
00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:39.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Oh, in the 19th.
00:27:39.300 --> 00:27:46.890 David Pantano: So, Krammeritz was, to give some timelines, he was born in 1861, died in 1930.
00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:47.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Don't do that.
00:27:47.350 --> 00:27:52.589 David Pantano: Marco Daffy, who… so Marco Daffy is the,
00:27:52.700 --> 00:28:05.720 David Pantano: Is the name that, his, his, his astral name, or the name that, when he was… went into this, past life regression, he identified that in a past life, he, he was this,
00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:15.170 David Pantano: a priest in this court of ancient Egypt, and his name was Marco daff…
00:28:15.450 --> 00:28:21.250 David Pantano: And he… he converted into a more of Italian-sounding name called Marco Daffy.
00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:44.270 David Pantano: And that he… there was this transgression that he was responsible for that put a curse, or put a karmic impediment to him, which… which really infected his personality, specific his emotional personalities, and that affected his relations with his wife and with other family members. And when he went into these trances, that he was able to…
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.920 David Pantano: Uncover these experiences on multiple occasions, and then receive
00:28:50.070 --> 00:29:07.190 David Pantano: instructions from the school that Kremertz was belonged to, called the Egyptian Order, in terms of how to remedy them. So these inner practices formed the basis of his alchemical hermeticism. So the alchemy behind it was to transform, as we know, alchemy is the…
00:29:07.190 --> 00:29:27.719 David Pantano: is the art of transforming lead into gold. So for… in Daffy's case, it was the transformation of his defective character into a perfectable character, into one of balance and equilibrium, so he could realize what his true purpose in his life was. So that was the foundational components.
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:40.700 David Pantano: It's written in a very highly philosophical manner. This is not, you know, some New Age visionary type of thing. It's written with very… in a… in a Neoplatonic.
00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:49.979 David Pantano: terminology that's very specific, and you can add in, I guess, some concepts of Jungian as well, to… to…
00:29:50.020 --> 00:30:05.619 David Pantano: to provide the terminological context in terms of how he discovered what his inner defects were, and how he… he went inside himself to convert those
00:30:05.710 --> 00:30:13.050 David Pantano: Vices or karmic, impediments into, into virtues.
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:25.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Now, this was the early 1900s, so, you know, concepts like karma and like past lives is a very Eastern sort of, concept.
00:30:26.130 --> 00:30:42.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: But were these concepts sort of, these, preserved through ancient times, through these Hermetic texts, or did Daffy have, or Kremitz have some exposure to Eastern stuff, so they were able to frame things?
00:30:43.100 --> 00:30:46.730 David Pantano: Great question, Sam. So…
00:30:48.140 --> 00:31:03.889 David Pantano: So, one of the, features of, of this tradition, of the Miriam that Kremertz and, and to a lesser extent, Daku associated, was they're bringing up to date the terminology. So, so,
00:31:04.150 --> 00:31:13.919 David Pantano: filtering the technology of old, outdated terms with some of the newer ones. So, in the world of
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:24.510 David Pantano: ancient Hermeticism, karma was… wasn't a concept that was used. It was fatum, the fate of your soul, the weight of your soul. But because…
00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:41.519 David Pantano: Kremertz wrote at the turn of the century, Daffey wrote up in the 50s and the 60s, they use more precise terminology than modern readers would understand to be able to bring it into a more modern context.
00:31:41.520 --> 00:31:47.699 David Pantano: So that was one of the advantages or benefits of their work, is that they took some of these arcane
00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:55.970 David Pantano: Philosophical terms, and brought them up to date to make it more accessible for the modern reader.
00:31:56.170 --> 00:32:16.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Okay, wonderful, wonderful. Okay, so we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, I just want to ask you a couple of questions around when you talk about them putting themselves into a trance state, like, what's involved with that, just to give us a little taste of it, and then I'd like to really talk about the Hermetic Book of the Dead. Alright?
00:32:16.810 --> 00:32:17.809 David Pantano: Okay, for sure.
00:32:17.810 --> 00:32:32.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: All right, great. So, everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to The Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. We do this every Wednesday now, 12 noon to 1 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on talkradio.nyc, and we'll be right back with our guest.
00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:40.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: David Pantano, author of the books Alchemical Hermeticism and the Hermetic Book of the Dead, in just a moment.
00:33:55.620 --> 00:34:05.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And welcome back to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. So, David, you spoke before about how…
00:34:06.650 --> 00:34:13.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: people like, like, Kremitz and, and Daffy, that, that for them to really…
00:34:13.420 --> 00:34:33.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: I guess, understand themselves, or to work through, sort of, some… some… some spiritual challenges, they would put themselves into sort of an altered state. So, how would they do that? What kinds of practices would they use to help them to sort of access a different level of understanding?
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:39.890 David Pantano: Okay, sure. So there's a technique in the Miriam called the State of Meg.
00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:51.640 David Pantano: And what that is, Kremertz defines it as a lucid state of trance. So basically, it's a state of love, of…
00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:58.219 David Pantano: Of not erotic love, but of, of, Of, of…
00:34:58.670 --> 00:35:04.770 David Pantano: a universal, transcendent, amorous state that creates such a.
00:35:04.770 --> 00:35:05.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: above.
00:35:05.710 --> 00:35:13.529 David Pantano: Yeah, spiritual love, like an agape that the Greeks would call, that the initiate would…
00:35:13.730 --> 00:35:19.189 David Pantano: Activate, that create this inner corridor, that their consciousness could…
00:35:19.610 --> 00:35:36.149 David Pantano: detach from the more physical and somatic environments to go internally, and that would open up… would enter into this astral field, and, given the…
00:35:36.540 --> 00:35:45.470 David Pantano: The… the inclinations, given the… the training of the initiate, that, they are accessible to.
00:35:45.470 --> 00:35:57.280 David Pantano: Inner experiences, figures and images and theurgical, entities that, are part of the environment that… of their state of development.
00:35:57.420 --> 00:35:59.910 David Pantano: So the… the state of MAG?
00:36:00.220 --> 00:36:08.949 David Pantano: which is a… which can be activated in a number of ways. It can be activated by doing meditation, doing a silent meditation, where the mind…
00:36:09.030 --> 00:36:24.129 David Pantano: Your awareness just slowly peels away the external envelopes, so the physical senses, the inputs from the physical senses, any of the five sensory faculties, and then of the emotional.
00:36:24.130 --> 00:36:31.620 David Pantano: inputs that we have, feelings, sensations, etc. And then of the mental chatter.
00:36:31.620 --> 00:36:44.709 David Pantano: All of that gets detached from your awareness to enter into this primordial consciousness, this, what they call in alchemy, the materia prima, and that is the starting point.
00:36:44.820 --> 00:36:59.260 David Pantano: And then, what typically happens is once you reach at that level, that all sense of thinking, of feeling, of perceiving externally sort of fades away.
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:04.169 David Pantano: And then, you know, that can open up
00:37:04.550 --> 00:37:11.990 David Pantano: This inner channel where this inner spectrum becomes the new.
00:37:12.190 --> 00:37:18.220 David Pantano: Percept… perception, perceptible universe that one can experience.
00:37:18.530 --> 00:37:19.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm, hmm.
00:37:20.180 --> 00:37:22.160 David Pantano: So that's how I would describe it.
00:37:22.160 --> 00:37:22.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: I don't.
00:37:22.630 --> 00:37:27.240 David Pantano: It's this trance where one goes inside oneself to get outside of oneself.
00:37:28.210 --> 00:37:30.439 David Pantano: And it's a process of…
00:37:30.810 --> 00:37:39.369 David Pantano: of filtering out the external influences, so the… your inner self, you go to your core, what's called the Newman.
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:40.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm. Yep.
00:37:40.450 --> 00:37:44.569 David Pantano: That becomes the center of your consciousness.
00:37:44.570 --> 00:37:45.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm.
00:37:45.060 --> 00:37:52.869 David Pantano: And then through the training, as I mentioned, this channel will open up this inner universe, Where, given your…
00:37:54.080 --> 00:38:02.800 David Pantano: Your state of development, your inclinations, what you love becomes… becomes visible in another dimension.
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:03.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Mmm.
00:38:04.040 --> 00:38:08.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Just out of curiosity, have you been able to achieve that state yourself?
00:38:08.850 --> 00:38:23.680 David Pantano: Yes, definitely so. Oh, that's cool, cool. Speaking from experience. That's not how Kremertz or Daffy describe it. They describe it as a gnosis, so as I mentioned, as this transcendent stain, but in terms of how I act, so I can activate that…
00:38:23.790 --> 00:38:25.559 David Pantano: Going for a walk.
00:38:25.720 --> 00:38:28.509 David Pantano: Even, you know, going for a long drive in the car.
00:38:28.550 --> 00:38:46.100 David Pantano: you know, one eye on the road and the third eye opens. Or in a meditative… these is probably a meditative state. If one wants to enter into some sort of psychonautic, or psychonavigation, then lying on the back and in a dead man's pose at certain…
00:38:46.210 --> 00:38:50.950 David Pantano: transitional times of the day or night, I find, are conducive
00:38:51.050 --> 00:39:00.519 David Pantano: To enter into this state of MAG easily, and then to have some of these transcendent experiences that… that are written about in the books.
00:39:00.520 --> 00:39:01.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm.
00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:04.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Interesting, interesting.
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:21.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: No, your newest book is The Hermetic Book of the Dead. I think most people have probably heard of the Tibetan Book of the Dead. What is the Hermetic Book of the Dead about? I mean, the subtext title is Secret Rituals for Navigating the Astral Plane in the Afterlife.
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:39.909 David Pantano: Yeah, so, so the Hermetic Book of the Dead is a book I've been working on for the past 2 years, 2 to 3 years. It's coming out in the fall of this year, so it hasn't been released yet. It's all completed with Inner Traditions, the publisher.
00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:57.210 David Pantano: And basically, it's a compendium of different writings, from myself, from other seekers, or we call Argonauts of light, that are contemporary from Italy, as well as Kremertz and Daffy, and other people from the School of Miriam.
00:39:57.210 --> 00:40:03.809 David Pantano: And it provides both a doctrinal and practical means to
00:40:03.830 --> 00:40:07.899 David Pantano: To enter into this astral plane, and to experience
00:40:08.180 --> 00:40:15.400 David Pantano: One's consciousness in a manner that's not… Confined to one's physical self.
00:40:16.910 --> 00:40:17.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And.
00:40:17.650 --> 00:40:25.319 David Pantano: That leads to exploring what other past initiates in this tradition have talked about in terms of
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:38.049 David Pantano: Of, past life, experiences, and what the, you know, some of the books, the archival material talk about in terms of doctrinal,
00:40:38.250 --> 00:40:44.409 David Pantano: doctrinal… Expositions of how to prepare oneself
00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:51.700 David Pantano: for, post-mortem realizations. So there's, there's a…
00:40:51.820 --> 00:40:58.479 David Pantano: philosophical component that explains what part of the human constitution is actually
00:40:58.650 --> 00:41:08.110 David Pantano: Survives that separation of the energetics body from the physical bodies.
00:41:08.770 --> 00:41:19.719 David Pantano: And, you know, Marco Daffy goes, right, very specifically into that. There's a series of articles called The Avatar, in terms of…
00:41:19.780 --> 00:41:27.900 David Pantano: The… how consciousness… when consciousness separates from the physical body, the various states that it resides in.
00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:40.200 David Pantano: Both latent and awakened, and how that they evolve into preparation for a new descent into a incarnation at a future time.
00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:42.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm. So…
00:41:42.270 --> 00:42:03.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: like, I know with the Tibetan Book of the Dead, there are various states, there are bardos, they're called, of, like, what happens after you pass, and so this is a sort of a hermetic version of that, where it's sort of, you know, how to prepare yourself, what happens when you die, and what sort of…
00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:06.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: path to take afterwards.
00:42:06.580 --> 00:42:11.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: So, but is… this is something… To prepare yourself for death?
00:42:12.790 --> 00:42:17.069 David Pantano: It's all of that. It's all of the above. It also includes a ritual.
00:42:17.210 --> 00:42:32.089 David Pantano: from, from, Marco Daffy's interlaboratory that he did with, other initiates, called the, the pharaonic Circle, or the Andromeda Ring, that,
00:42:32.390 --> 00:42:43.450 David Pantano: Allows the… allows the seeker to, conduct a psychurgic ritual, which is the weighing of the soul, the weighing of their karma, before they actually…
00:42:43.470 --> 00:42:56.750 David Pantano: transcend into another dimension, in terms of, you know, what is… what is lacking, or what needs to be worked on prior to… prior to that significant event occurring.
00:42:56.780 --> 00:43:01.500 David Pantano: So, it includes also a ritual with diagrams.
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:16.890 David Pantano: Explaining each stage of the ritual, the weighing of the soul, the feedback that one potentially could receive when one goes through this ritual, to understand the quality of the material that one has when one is
00:43:16.890 --> 00:43:21.900 David Pantano: Transitioning from one… State of life to another.
00:43:22.060 --> 00:43:39.669 David Pantano: So, and it includes all that you mentioned as well. It's a very expansive book, so it's not just on one component of the Book of the Dead. It really covers a very vast, expansive, doctrinal and practical
00:43:39.680 --> 00:43:48.479 David Pantano: exposition of this, of these Hermetic practices, related to the post-mortem experiences.
00:43:48.660 --> 00:43:49.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: So…
00:43:49.620 --> 00:44:07.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: You've been researching all this stuff for decades, right? I mean, since I'm new. I'm curious, how has this research and your experiences and what you've learned and what you've applied, how has it shifted your life? How is…
00:44:07.460 --> 00:44:12.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Would you say, how is your life different from before you did all of this research?
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:18.279 David Pantano: I don't really… Sam, I don't really believe it's that different.
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:18.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Oh, okay.
00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:26.170 David Pantano: teach that much. I'm just even more knowledgeable. It's… it's… again, it's…
00:44:26.350 --> 00:44:43.229 David Pantano: you… there's… there's, what I look… think… how I… the terms I put… I have this, like, radar in terms of what interests me, and… and… and what… that radar kind of guides me in terms of where to look and what to… what to find.
00:44:43.700 --> 00:44:45.900 David Pantano: Your inner disposition.
00:44:46.150 --> 00:44:54.320 David Pantano: results in external circumstances, is what I believe. So you talked about earlier, I don't think you used the word, but synchronicities, you know.
00:44:54.790 --> 00:44:58.370 David Pantano: Yes. And that's what… that's exactly what occurs.
00:44:58.540 --> 00:45:12.669 David Pantano: As that, you know, the… you heard… you've heard the saying, the master… the master comes… the master arrives or comes when the disciple is ready. It's the same thing, the teachings come when you're ready to…
00:45:13.310 --> 00:45:21.640 David Pantano: to be open to them, to understand them, to make use of them, to make value of it. So I don't really… I…
00:45:22.550 --> 00:45:42.149 David Pantano: The personality I have right now is not any different than when the camera's off, or when I'm in other scenarios. I'm pretty consistent with that. And I think that's part of the work, is that you… when you do that inner work, especially in the negretto or the black stage, when you come… when you confront with your
00:45:42.280 --> 00:46:01.200 David Pantano: disturbances, you really get a good sense of yourself, and then in the white state, when you… when you clear that all out, you integrate yourself. So rather than having, you know, a different personality, given different circumstances, or your mind's going off in a thousand different ways, you're… you're much more monadic in terms of.
00:46:01.200 --> 00:46:01.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: you'd be.
00:46:01.560 --> 00:46:17.890 David Pantano: in terms of yourself. So, and I kind of… so that's probably the biggest change. Prior to that, I was much more, not… not as… my sense of self wasn't as uniform and consistent as it is now.
00:46:18.020 --> 00:46:18.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm.
00:46:18.630 --> 00:46:21.450 David Pantano: But in terms of my curiosity, in terms of what…
00:46:21.820 --> 00:46:25.440 David Pantano: you know, what interests me, that really has been pretty consistent.
00:46:26.040 --> 00:46:26.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm.
00:46:27.290 --> 00:46:28.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: M…
00:46:28.550 --> 00:46:47.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: what do you hope readers get from these books? What do you hope someone takes away? Like, what are you looking to… are you looking to inspire them? Are you looking for people to change their lives, or is it really just a philosophical exploration?
00:46:48.090 --> 00:46:53.889 David Pantano: Yeah, I'm not… I'm not a preacher. I don't,
00:46:54.130 --> 00:47:03.910 David Pantano: It's none of that. I mean, knowledge sharing, it's… I think this material is valuable. It's valuable for me, it could be valuable for others.
00:47:03.910 --> 00:47:04.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: people.
00:47:04.780 --> 00:47:10.260 David Pantano: Readers, my interaction with readers, I'm very open with readers, if you…
00:47:10.510 --> 00:47:28.060 David Pantano: you know, check out my social media, send me a note if you have my books and aspects of it, or you want further clarification. By all means, send me a note. I'm very open. And I've heard positive feedback. Oh, you're different. Most, you know, writers of this… of the occult esoteric, they, you know, they have this…
00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:31.789 David Pantano: distance, and I go, I'm not like that. I don't have anything to hide.
00:47:32.180 --> 00:47:38.799 David Pantano: So, readers come to my books on different reasons, some for curiosity, some for philosophical…
00:47:38.890 --> 00:47:56.840 David Pantano: validation, some for, you know, they are looking for a new path, something that works, something that can be validated on a personal level, and not just accepted at, you know, as, as words on a page.
00:47:57.650 --> 00:48:00.730 David Pantano: So, there, you know, there, there are different…
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:05.860 David Pantano: you know, the reason why I do is because it, it, it, it…
00:48:06.450 --> 00:48:18.840 David Pantano: it fulfills my curiosity, but it's a philosophy, it's a practice that I've done myself, and that I can validate, and I can talk about through experience, experiential matters.
00:48:19.030 --> 00:48:23.629 David Pantano: And it's… it's a safe one. I mean, it's safe in terms of you…
00:48:24.140 --> 00:48:30.940 David Pantano: In terms of the individual who wants to explore this path, in terms of
00:48:31.310 --> 00:48:37.190 David Pantano: Of being integral to themselves, is listening to their conscience, is not, you know, is, you know…
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:45.370 David Pantano: what Dylan wrote about, you know, fool… fools and… fool's… fools trek were… Ain't…
00:48:45.820 --> 00:48:49.120 David Pantano: Fool's trek where angels fail to tread.
00:48:49.120 --> 00:48:49.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Yeah, theater track.
00:48:49.970 --> 00:49:01.790 David Pantano: You know, which is a… I think is a very valid point. There are aspects that people get addicted to theurgy and so forth. They want to have all these mystical experiences and so forth.
00:49:01.970 --> 00:49:04.990 David Pantano: And you do get that, but it's not…
00:49:04.990 --> 00:49:25.409 David Pantano: That's not your goal. That's not your… and I'm speaking from my single… from my first person. It's not your goal. Your goal is evolution. Your goal is to transcend your limits. Your goal is to correct your deficiencies, your disturbances, to be a better person, and to share that goodwill, that good energy, that vibe.
00:49:25.410 --> 00:49:27.560 David Pantano: With our fellow human beings.
00:49:28.670 --> 00:49:42.340 David Pantano: That's mine. It could be different things for other people. You know, I got other people saying, you know, I wanna, you know, I want to become an avatar, I wanna be able to reincarnate, can, you know, can you get me on the, you know, help me out in that type of thing.
00:49:42.620 --> 00:49:43.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Boo.
00:49:43.170 --> 00:49:47.380 David Pantano: That's your path, that's your path. I don't preach, I'm not into proselyizing.
00:49:47.380 --> 00:49:47.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Gotcha.
00:49:47.890 --> 00:49:52.219 David Pantano: Yeah, and it's… yeah, that's… that's where I'm coming from.
00:49:52.220 --> 00:50:09.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: I'm curious, you mentioned a couple of different organizations, like the Fraternity of Miriam, and a couple of other groups that these older Hermetics were part of. Are any of those groups still active? Is the lineage, did it continue, or did it stop.
00:50:09.120 --> 00:50:16.069 David Pantano: Yeah, well, that's a good question. The fraternity of Miriam is still around, primarily based in Italy.
00:50:16.460 --> 00:50:33.870 David Pantano: It's fragmented, so it's similar… it's not that dissimilar to the Golden Dawn, where you have a bunch of different groups competing with each other, and each… you know, some are claiming lineage from so-and-so. It really functionally ended with the death of Kremertz.
00:50:35.120 --> 00:50:44.140 David Pantano: Or, yeah, and, you know, in the sense that the, the Hermetic changed. So, what the Miriam was, was,
00:50:44.260 --> 00:50:52.520 David Pantano: A series, or a number of… of individuals who've… who've…
00:50:52.520 --> 00:51:07.089 David Pantano: formed a hermetic chain to practice distance healing, to practice projection of this psychic energy. Once they get into that state of mag, and they perform certain rituals, then they were able to
00:51:07.130 --> 00:51:24.169 David Pantano: collect that energy from the various members, and project it to a Centricum that would, transfer it to individuals who had requested healing, requested, they're depressed, requested some sort of assistance.
00:51:24.560 --> 00:51:25.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Hmm.
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:38.989 David Pantano: In a nutshell, that was… that was the concept that Kremertz had in mind when he… when he founded this Hermetic brotherhood called the Fraternity of Miriam in the late 1890s.
00:51:40.130 --> 00:51:55.170 David Pantano: And there were, you know, there were a number of disturbances, and egos came into play, and fractions, and so forth. Not uncommon that you read, but the material itself, the practices, the doctrines.
00:51:55.170 --> 00:52:00.670 David Pantano: are… transcend that. So, and that's what I've tried to bring to the public.
00:52:00.750 --> 00:52:07.370 David Pantano: Because I think it's… they're very worthwhile, they're very unique, they don't… it's not, you know, a bunch of…
00:52:08.700 --> 00:52:20.340 David Pantano: pieces that are taken from various different currents, you know, like Blavatsky, or Theosophy, or from the Golden Dawn. It's… it was its own…
00:52:20.550 --> 00:52:29.639 David Pantano: unique blend of Hermeticism that was… Practice, and…
00:52:29.770 --> 00:52:37.499 David Pantano: configured over centuries that have come down and that I've tried to bring to the English-speaking world.
00:52:37.500 --> 00:53:01.540 David Pantano: Because it could be of value for… for those who are looking for a path, who are looking for understanding, or looking for a systematic way to… to explore some of their… that spiritual dimension that they may not be successful otherwise, or that… another way to be able to channel some of these, these inner paths that,
00:53:01.620 --> 00:53:05.399 David Pantano: They may be valuable to individual seekers.
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:16.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: You know, just the fact that your books are getting published to me, is… in these times, in modern times, is kind of amazing.
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:23.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Would you say there's a renaissance happening of interest in traditions like Hermeticism?
00:53:24.110 --> 00:53:27.960 David Pantano: It's funny, because I think it goes in waves.
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:28.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Meh.
00:53:28.350 --> 00:53:43.679 David Pantano: In peaks and valleys. I think, those of us who are closer to our age will remember there was a magazine that was published by J. Kinney, and Richard Smalley was the editor, called Gnosis.
00:53:43.680 --> 00:53:44.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: From nurses.
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:57.220 David Pantano: 80s and 90s, and that seemed to me to be a spiritual renaissance, as well as in the 60s and 70s with the works of Castaneda and Gorgev and so forth.
00:53:57.220 --> 00:53:57.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Yeah.
00:53:57.600 --> 00:54:13.240 David Pantano: I think in this new century, this new millennium, I think it's kind of dipped a bit. I don't think it's as… the scene is vibrant as it was in those preceding decades.
00:54:13.270 --> 00:54:28.629 David Pantano: But there is… there is… I mean, seekers you find of all times and ages. There are individuals, but I think they're more scattered and fragmented. There are these various groups, but again, they… there doesn't seem to be one dominant
00:54:28.770 --> 00:54:34.340 David Pantano: Vehicle for, for, for, for,
00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:45.740 David Pantano: communicating, articulating some of these spiritual truths. Not necessarily that that needs to be the best way of doing it, but there does… it seems to be a very much a…
00:54:45.860 --> 00:54:49.029 David Pantano: An open market, a market that's sort of…
00:54:49.100 --> 00:55:04.429 David Pantano: A little bit below the radar, then, you know, doesn't freak people out, but enough around that those who are seriously interested in exploring spiritual paths can find a tradition, or can find
00:55:04.430 --> 00:55:14.329 David Pantano: A mentor that can help them to answer some of the questions that they have about spiritual growth and spiritual knowledge.
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:23.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: If someone's new to this, and they want to start reading and exploring, which book would you recommend they start with?
00:55:23.650 --> 00:55:28.419 David Pantano: I have a few books. My first book called, with by,
00:55:29.260 --> 00:55:41.250 David Pantano: By Manticore Press called The Magic Door. It covers this whole Italic Hermetic tradition, from ancient Roman times right up to the modern day of Kremertz.
00:55:41.250 --> 00:55:49.819 David Pantano: and Daffy, and so on. That would be… and it's a… that's a very much a general starting point.
00:55:49.820 --> 00:55:50.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Okay.
00:55:50.370 --> 00:56:06.990 David Pantano: In terms of understanding the fraternity of Miriam and a biography of Kremertz, my book called The Hermetic Physician, The Teachings and Practices of Giuliano Kremertz is a good one. If they want to explore a much more
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:17.480 David Pantano: in-depth, technical approach to gnosis, to spiritual practice, then Alchemical Hermeticism would be a great book.
00:56:18.110 --> 00:56:29.240 David Pantano: Those who are much more mature and want to know what were the actual rituals used in the Miriam, this book here called The Magic of Joanna Kremertz, that was just published a month ago.
00:56:29.990 --> 00:56:43.609 David Pantano: And then, for really the hardcore, people, again, want to understand about activistic resurgence, about avataric returns, then the book that's coming out in the fall.
00:56:43.610 --> 00:56:51.600 David Pantano: the Hermetic Book of the Dead would be a good choice. So, there's a widespread between those who are new, those who are in the middle in terms of their
00:56:51.600 --> 00:57:08.400 David Pantano: Their knowledge and understanding, and those who are much more advanced seekers that want to know, you know, how to… what are some of their practices for, you know, astral traveling and preparing for, you know, major
00:57:08.470 --> 00:57:11.070 David Pantano: Turns in their development and evolution.
00:57:11.700 --> 00:57:17.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Well, as I get older, I'm definitely getting more interested in that end of things, you know.
00:57:17.470 --> 00:57:26.399 David Pantano: And again, it's not preachy, it's not… it's not religious, it's… it's… it's written in a very much philosophical manner,
00:57:26.610 --> 00:57:29.210 David Pantano: It has also experiences in there.
00:57:29.210 --> 00:57:29.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Yeah.
00:57:29.710 --> 00:57:42.729 David Pantano: From myself and various colleagues, so it's… it's… it's… it's a book for… for everyone. There's a book, and then there's… there's information for everyone based on what their… their needs and what they're looking for.
00:57:42.730 --> 00:58:00.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Wonderful, wonderful. Well, David, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day for coming on my show. I could talk with you for hours. Unfortunately, I only have an hour to do this shit, so… If people want to learn more about your work, or get in touch with you, what's the best place for them to find you?
00:58:00.330 --> 00:58:13.300 David Pantano: Yeah, they could either write to my publisher, Inner Traditions, or myself. I'll look on Facebook, or Instagram, or my other publisher, Manticore Press.
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:24.919 David Pantano: It's probably the easiest way, just on Messenger, send me, send me a note, and, yeah, I'd be happy to start a conversation.
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:34.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Wonderful, wonderful. Well, David, thank you so much. Take care. I really appreciate your time, and I appreciate your work. I look forward to reading your books.
00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:35.660 David Pantano: Great.
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:36.450 David Pantano: Thank you.
00:58:36.950 --> 00:58:55.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show. And don't forget, if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio.nyc, or all over your favorite podcasting platforms, Apple, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio.
00:58:55.620 --> 00:58:59.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Cosnutlant: Take care, everyone. We will talk to you all next week.
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