EPISODE SUMMARY:
In this powerful episode of Frank About Health, I sit down with cancer survivor, patient-advocate, and healthcare disruptor Matthew Zachary for a raw, urgent conversation about what happens when the healthcare system runs out of compassion—and patients are left to fend for themselves.
This is not a feel-good survivor story. It’s a truth-telling reckoning.
Together, we explore what it means to be “out of patients” in a system that treats people like data points—and why the next phase of healthcare must be driven by lived experience, not bureaucracy.
If you’ve ever asked, “Why does surviving feel harder than the illness itself?”
This episode is for you.
An unfiltered look at MZ's journey with Brain Cancer— from diagnosis to survivorship — and why so many patients feel abandoned after treatment ends.
A reframing of hope — not as toxic positivity, but as agency, voice, and systemic accountability.
Learn about his podcast "Out of Patients" and his other Advocacy work.
Website: www.matthewzachary.com/
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/matthewzachary/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/thematthewzachary/?hl=en
Podcast: www.outofpatients.com/
Frank opens this episode by introducing his guest Matthew Zachary, a healthcare advocate and survivor of brain cancer, as the final guest of his Voices of Disruption campaign for 2025. MZ discusses his experience with brain cancer diagnosis and treatment, his non-profit organization Stupid Cancer, and his podcast Out of Patience. Frank and MZ also touch on a healthcare movement planned for 2026, with Frank noting that listeners can engage with the discussion through various social media platforms.
Matthew begins the second segment by discussing his long-standing career in podcasting, emphasizing his commitment to radio as an art form and his preference for audio over video. He highlights his independence and monetization of his show, as well as his role as a civic critic and advocate for specific causes. MZ expresses his enjoyment of being a unique voice in the industry and his focus on audio platforms like LinkedIn and his own website, while avoiding social media platforms like TikTok and Instagram.
The third segment begins with Frank and MZ discussing the issue of medical debt among cancer patients, highlighting that 66% of all bankruptcies are related to medical oncology debt, and proposed a plan to forgive oncology medical debt through state protection laws. they also emphasize the need for mandatory nurse navigation to assist cancer patients in navigating the healthcare system. MZ explains that "We the Patients" is forming a cancer lobby to gather support for these initiatives, aiming to get 1 million people signed up by 2026. Frank inquires about the timing of these initiatives in relation to the upcoming midterms, to which MZ clarified that the ideas were developed before the incident involving the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, and the current situation is simply amplifying public anger.
Frank and MZ bring an end to todays episode by discussing a healthcare product that aims to be introduced to the market by April or May 2026, with Frank expressing hope to promote it during MZ's concert at Lincoln Center. They bot agreed to have MZ return to Frank's show in January to discuss his upcoming book. Frank announces several upcoming events, including Dr. Todd Otten's return on January 8th and Dr. Dale Atkins' appearance on the Today Show on January 5th. Frank also expressed gratitude to his team and audience, and mentioned his documentary "Being Frank for a Healthy Future" available on YouTube, with plans to promote it further in the coming weeks to honor the memory of Retha Gray.
00:00:52.440 --> 00:01:01.880 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, it is December 18th, 2025, and welcome to, what I always consider a special episode, but in this case, this is a…
00:01:02.020 --> 00:01:12.540 Frank R. Harrison: Major way to end the year, because I have Matthew Zachary, or MZ, as he's commonly known,
00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:21.349 Frank R. Harrison: a big advocate for healthcare. As you all know, I have been on my Voices of Disruption campaign since about September or October.
00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:40.380 Frank R. Harrison: I've had, last week, Todd Otten. A few weeks ago, I had Dale Atkins. I also had, Tom Ingenyo. Everyone knows that I've been speaking to Marshall Runge, and so many other big medical advocates and voices of disruption.
00:01:40.580 --> 00:01:50.179 Frank R. Harrison: The reason why I find MZ to be the perfect way to end the year before the holidays is because you're gonna hear a story of survival.
00:01:50.530 --> 00:01:54.400 Frank R. Harrison: He was diagnosed with brain cancer, and I will let him
00:01:54.510 --> 00:02:00.870 Frank R. Harrison: Go right into the whole experience of being diagnosed, going through treatment, and…
00:02:00.960 --> 00:02:14.950 Frank R. Harrison: beating the odds, which is one major aspect of this episode. The other thing you're gonna learn about, again, when he dealt with that struggle, what did he do about it? He did many things. And I will cover, first of all.
00:02:15.330 --> 00:02:24.660 Frank R. Harrison: his non-for-profit, which is called Stupid Cancer. Then, his podcast, Out of patience, P-A-T-I-E-N-T-S,
00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:30.289 Frank R. Harrison: And then we'll wrap up the show talking about a movement that he's gonna be engaged in in 2026.
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:36.669 Frank R. Harrison: Because as everyone knows, all of us are going to be challenged with our healthcare, at the beginning of the year.
00:02:36.930 --> 00:02:51.209 Frank R. Harrison: Now, that all being said, let me issue my disclaimer. There may be views, opinions, maybe even some curse words, which we are trying to avoid at best, but, you know, when you're passionate about what you're talking about, sometimes you just let it go.
00:02:51.330 --> 00:02:58.460 Frank R. Harrison: That being said, if you find it uncomfortable, or if you feel dissuaded by anything that we're talking about.
00:02:58.570 --> 00:03:12.260 Frank R. Harrison: That's okay. Turn off the show. However, for those of you who are really fighting as vehemently as you will discover MZ has been doing, and as vehemently as I have been doing over the last 6 months in particular.
00:03:12.570 --> 00:03:18.379 Frank R. Harrison: You stay tuned, because you're gonna find out a lot of outcomes and how you can also become involved.
00:03:18.550 --> 00:03:26.330 Frank R. Harrison: Alright, so that's basically my disclaimer. We're not here to dissuade you, but we're here to raise your voice and
00:03:26.450 --> 00:03:37.249 Frank R. Harrison: spread your opinions. That being said, we are live. If you want to reach out to me or MZ in particular, if you're watching YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, or Twitch.
00:03:37.440 --> 00:03:45.460 Frank R. Harrison: Give your comments or questions, and our engineer, Jesse, will read them out loud, and… well, let us read them out loud, and we'll try to answer them live.
00:03:45.630 --> 00:03:58.750 Frank R. Harrison: Alright, but otherwise, Matthew, thank you for coming to Frank About Health. I think we were discussing this show for, like, 60 days already, you know, but, of course, thanks to also Tom and Todd.
00:03:59.190 --> 00:04:00.439 Frank R. Harrison: You have been…
00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:11.600 Frank R. Harrison: talked up on many levels, and I'm really glad we're gonna express all of what you've been doing, and what you will be doing in the new year. And you have to unmute first, but then get ready to just share your story.
00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:13.359 MZ: There we go, hello!
00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:16.320 Frank R. Harrison: So…
00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:20.980 MZ: It's a good thing I have all these people on payroll, because they're supposed to say nice things about me.
00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:27.380 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly. And they do. Trust me, they do. But that being said,
00:04:28.710 --> 00:04:32.279 Frank R. Harrison: Again, talk about your story. Brain cancer.
00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:37.550 Frank R. Harrison: I mean, I'm amazed. You even told me, you're amazed.
00:04:37.550 --> 00:04:40.030 MZ: That you're still here. You were given 6 months.
00:04:40.490 --> 00:04:45.879 Frank R. Harrison: I wanna know how… How it became a gift in disguise for you.
00:04:46.260 --> 00:04:47.390 MZ: That's a good way to put it.
00:04:47.530 --> 00:04:59.420 MZ: So, first of all, thank you for having me on the program. I don't do a lot of live shows, so this will be really fun. And hello, everyone watching! It's great to meet you! I'm Matt, or he says MZ.
00:04:59.540 --> 00:05:00.250 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:05:00.250 --> 00:05:09.250 MZ: I… Tend to want to tell my story through the lens of history, Because it's been 30 years.
00:05:09.430 --> 00:05:13.880 MZ: So I kind of couch… how I explain what happened to me.
00:05:14.280 --> 00:05:28.920 MZ: through this, perspective, and retrospective, because I was pretty much diagnosed with brain cancer over an answering machine, blinking in my parents' bedroom. So that's a very Gen X thing to say from 1995.
00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:38.099 MZ: But my upbringing was on Staten Island in New York. My parents are teachers, and
00:05:38.690 --> 00:05:45.600 MZ: I was a good… I was a gifted kid, and I started playing piano, because my mom played, and I became a protege.
00:05:45.930 --> 00:05:51.999 MZ: And I loved every second of it. I memorized… I became a human jukebox in the, in the 80s.
00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.420 Frank R. Harrison: Very good.
00:05:53.830 --> 00:06:03.859 MZ: Classical lessons, jazz lessons. I played for Sing, the talent show, I produced some musicals, went to college for music composition and film theory.
00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:09.360 MZ: And I was aspiring to be John Williams, my hero.
00:06:09.810 --> 00:06:17.270 MZ: And I spent the entirety of my first 3 years in school doing nothing but immersing myself in composition.
00:06:17.430 --> 00:06:19.730 MZ: theory, history.
00:06:19.880 --> 00:06:35.330 MZ: musical theater, jazz studies, classical studies, tons of rehearsals, recitals, productions, and X, Y, and Z. It's rare to know what you want to do when you grow up at 19 years old, but I was that kid.
00:06:36.490 --> 00:06:37.120 Frank R. Harrison: Perfect.
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:45.920 MZ: So, in between junior and senior year college, the summer of 95, I interned at the World Trade Center.
00:06:46.310 --> 00:06:56.530 MZ: And I started to experience very weird headaches. And they were not normal headaches, like, you know, front of the brain migraine stuff, it was kind of in the back by my left ear.
00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:57.380 MZ: And.
00:06:57.380 --> 00:06:58.180 Frank R. Harrison: Wow.
00:06:58.180 --> 00:07:17.839 MZ: you're 21, you're invincible, who cares, right? I thought it was just the elevators and the vertigo, because those elevators, anyone privileged enough to ever have been in those towers knows that those elevators were powered by the flux capacitor. So they gave you lots of vertigo.
00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:18.240 Frank R. Harrison: Wow.
00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:19.539 MZ: I just wrote it off.
00:07:20.060 --> 00:07:25.779 MZ: But when I got back to school in September, I noticed right away that my left hand
00:07:25.890 --> 00:07:31.589 MZ: Wasn't as dexterous as it was, because I didn't play much over the summer.
00:07:31.870 --> 00:07:32.480 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.669 MZ: In music nerd land, that's called arpeggiation.
00:07:36.990 --> 00:07:53.060 MZ: Okay. It is the speed at which your fingers can move across the keys, like fine motor skills. Yes. And my left hand wasn't performing as well as my right hand. So I thought, alright, I'm just rusty. I'm 21, I'm invincible.
00:07:53.450 --> 00:07:57.000 MZ: And… that was it. I just had trouble playing.
00:07:57.300 --> 00:08:01.850 MZ: I had trouble gripping a pen, because I was a lefty, and I had trouble typing.
00:08:02.330 --> 00:08:04.759 MZ: Because we had, like, crappy computers back then.
00:08:05.050 --> 00:08:05.700 Frank R. Harrison: With the.
00:08:05.700 --> 00:08:06.960 MZ: Black at the keyboards.
00:08:07.190 --> 00:08:07.820 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:08:08.350 --> 00:08:19.119 MZ: everything just got exponentially more difficult for me that semester, and my friends were like, Matt, what's wrong with you? And, like, I don't know. I just kind of powered through and went to the campus doctors, they thought I had,
00:08:19.590 --> 00:08:23.000 MZ: Carpal tunnel syndrome, or some kind of…
00:08:23.510 --> 00:08:35.620 MZ: I don't know, you name the thing, they were wrong, Epstein-Barr, mini-stroke, MS, put your backpack on this shoulder, take some Robitussin. Clearly none of that were alleviating my symptoms.
00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:36.169 Frank R. Harrison: Correct.
00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:47.529 MZ: But, by the time I got back for Thanksgiving, everything really started to exacerbate. And I had a, like, a fainting spell, and I began to slur my speech.
00:08:48.309 --> 00:08:51.159 Frank R. Harrison: Wow. And that's kind of when it really hit me.
00:08:51.209 --> 00:09:00.009 MZ: That maybe there's actually something wrong with me, and I should tell my parents. Right. Which I did over Thanksgiving break. Of course, they panicked.
00:09:00.199 --> 00:09:08.369 MZ: My pediatrician at the time said, you should get a, what are the… an EEG, like, go see a neurologist.
00:09:08.370 --> 00:09:09.050 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:09:09.230 --> 00:09:21.659 MZ: And again, in my ignorant, innocence, and invulnerability, I said, I'm kind of busy, I have finals, I got two shows to produce, can I just come back in two weeks in Famous Last Words?
00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:23.470 MZ: So everything went to shit.
00:09:23.830 --> 00:09:28.210 MZ: in those 2 weeks, I got back, Went for the,
00:09:28.610 --> 00:09:32.269 MZ: neurologist is like, I can't help you, go get an MRI.
00:09:32.860 --> 00:09:41.090 MZ: Right. But, like, what the hell's an MRI? This was 1995, folks. So, oh, you just stick your head into it for two hours, and they tell you there's something wrong with you.
00:09:41.250 --> 00:09:42.270 MZ: Okay, great.
00:09:42.870 --> 00:09:50.560 MZ: So this is the story of the answering machine. My mom and I, on December 27th or 28th, 95.
00:09:50.900 --> 00:09:51.860 Frank R. Harrison: Wow.
00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:54.590 MZ: 30 years ago, in 2 weeks as of this taping.
00:09:54.590 --> 00:09:55.390 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly.
00:09:55.390 --> 00:09:57.759 MZ: is, went in for the scan.
00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.250 MZ: Came out, went to lunch, Got back home.
00:10:01.730 --> 00:10:03.380 MZ: And the machine was blinking.
00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:10.320 MZ: No one calls you at 1 o'clock on a Thursday. They're watching soap operas.
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.070 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:10:12.070 --> 00:10:14.049 MZ: So, Days of Our Lives was on.
00:10:14.390 --> 00:10:28.090 MZ: The blinking machine, yeah, we found something, come back, was pretty much what the answer was… So we went back, another scan, and they found this giant orb in my cerebellum.
00:10:28.340 --> 00:10:29.480 Frank R. Harrison: Wow. And then…
00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:33.330 MZ: We need to meet with the neurosurgeon. Like, what?
00:10:34.540 --> 00:10:38.219 MZ: So then Friday night, One of the kindest.
00:10:39.140 --> 00:10:42.339 MZ: most gentle mensches I've ever known.
00:10:42.810 --> 00:10:44.290 MZ: Orthodox Jew.
00:10:44.800 --> 00:10:45.460 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:47.060 MZ: Took off on Shabbos.
00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:51.170 MZ: to meet with my family and I, my parents and I. My brother was at school.
00:10:51.450 --> 00:10:51.900 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:10:51.900 --> 00:10:55.310 MZ: And explain exactly what the hell was going on.
00:10:55.750 --> 00:11:00.839 MZ: And he said, there's a mass, in your brain, And it's gotta come out.
00:11:01.550 --> 00:11:02.010 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:11:02.010 --> 00:11:04.730 MZ: And that's what's been causing all these
00:11:04.850 --> 00:11:19.329 MZ: insane side effects that have been plaguing you, and that's probably why no one properly diagnosed you, because a pianist who can't use his left hand properly is not typically a sign of brain cancer.
00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:22.609 Frank R. Harrison: Right. It could be carpal tunnel or something like that.
00:11:22.610 --> 00:11:37.319 MZ: Yeah. So, slight fast forward, I had a full craniotomy, like old-school gulag, rip your head open for 8 hours surgery. Again, we've had lots of progress since then, that doesn't necessarily happen anymore, which is good.
00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:38.020 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:11:38.020 --> 00:11:38.980 MZ: Took it out.
00:11:39.780 --> 00:11:44.350 MZ: sense of the pathology, In the hospital for 8 days.
00:11:44.630 --> 00:11:47.020 MZ: Woke up, went home, and I could play again.
00:11:47.650 --> 00:11:48.570 Frank R. Harrison: Awesome.
00:11:48.790 --> 00:11:49.969 MZ: With a caveat.
00:11:49.970 --> 00:11:51.499 Frank R. Harrison: It's always an asterisk.
00:11:51.750 --> 00:11:54.959 MZ: Because I hadn't used my left hand.
00:11:55.870 --> 00:11:57.700 MZ: the way I should have been.
00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:58.670 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:11:58.670 --> 00:12:03.550 MZ: The muscle memory was gone, and my dexterity had atrophied.
00:12:04.830 --> 00:12:12.450 MZ: So I had to rehab myself all over again, but wait, there's more! Because the tumor came back malignant.
00:12:13.640 --> 00:12:22.899 MZ: They thought it was benign, it came back malignant, there was no doubt, it was completely corroborated by all the medical practitioners, and they're like, alright, now…
00:12:23.030 --> 00:12:39.130 MZ: You're not done yet. Don't go back to school. We're not quite sure if you'll be here by June. In not so many terms, that was what the impression was that my parents and I got from these doctors. It was called a medulloblastoma. That's the name of the tumor.
00:12:39.900 --> 00:12:41.809 MZ: What makes it unique?
00:12:42.790 --> 00:12:47.239 MZ: Is that it's the only brain tumor you are born with.
00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:50.880 MZ: It develops while you are a fetus
00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:56.600 MZ: in utero, and it only grows In your cerebellum.
00:12:57.150 --> 00:12:59.459 MZ: So that's why it was backed by my ear.
00:13:00.680 --> 00:13:01.540 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, wow.
00:13:01.540 --> 00:13:08.419 MZ: So, I had to go through all sorts of Chernobyl Easy Bake oven-level radiation for 33 days.
00:13:08.650 --> 00:13:15.359 MZ: And then we had a chemo conversation, which I actually said no to, but I think we can cover that after the break, because that's my cliffhanger for you.
00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:16.290 Frank R. Harrison: You're right.
00:13:16.570 --> 00:13:18.400 MZ: Because the one through thread.
00:13:19.130 --> 00:13:22.100 MZ: of everything I went through that matters today.
00:13:22.650 --> 00:13:27.769 MZ: is this story of my Uncle Jay and why I said no to chemo.
00:13:28.550 --> 00:13:29.210 Frank R. Harrison: Mmm.
00:13:29.290 --> 00:13:34.459 MZ: And we just got a comment, they call it the Easy Bake Tumor. That's it, the Easy Bake Tumor.
00:13:34.810 --> 00:13:54.569 Frank R. Harrison: Alright, and it's timely, because we are ready for our first break, but I want to make sure we cover everything that you are now doing further, so I guess what we'll do is we will respond to the cliffhanger, and then go right into stupid cancer, and how that evolved into out of patience.
00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:58.020 MZ: Yep, and that's a much quicker trip than the first part of the story.
00:13:58.470 --> 00:14:11.719 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, perfect. So, ladies and gentlemen, please stay tuned right here on this episode of Frank About Health as we are discussing about MZ's journey through cancer and what he's gonna do about it.
00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:17.460 Frank R. Harrison: In the future, for all of us survivors, and all of us dealing with various illnesses.
00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:18.910 Frank R. Harrison: We'll see you in a few.
00:16:01.170 --> 00:16:04.150 Frank R. Harrison: Wee… just had to quote that.
00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:10.739 Frank R. Harrison: That all being said, welcome again, Matthew, for coming to this
00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:30.469 Frank R. Harrison: I guess end-of-year episode, because I know the way we end the show, and we'll discuss further, is gonna be a nice Christmas gift to everyone going forward. So, that being said, I wanna… I wanna get the answer to your cliffhanger, and then go right into how you came up with Stupid Cancer, and ultimately, Out of Patience, your podcast.
00:16:30.470 --> 00:16:34.440 MZ: Yes, again, like, this… the first part triggers
00:16:34.550 --> 00:16:50.719 MZ: a much faster downstream about how I got from here to there. But again, this Uncle J story is what matters most to everything I say today, 30 years later, because it does speak to some similar problems that still exist in the ether of American healthcare.
00:16:50.820 --> 00:17:07.649 MZ: Yes. And I'll give the brief story, but basically, my dad's best friend is Dr. Jay Tishfield. Anyone listening or watching this can Google his name. He's a very famous genomicist, geneticist from the 70s and 80s. Nice. And he's my godfather.
00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:13.709 MZ: So when I was going through this care, he was very closely monitoring all this stuff, but when we got to the,
00:17:14.089 --> 00:17:24.320 MZ: You're done with surgery, you're done with radiation, your EasyBake tumor, Chernobyl therapy is over now, we want to give you chemotherapy, and Jay's like.
00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:30.440 MZ: What chemotherapy do they want to give you? As if we knew that word meant more than one thing.
00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:31.390 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:17:31.820 --> 00:17:43.799 MZ: And they basically said, we're gonna give you this, and Jay's like, I want to understand what's in the cocktail, because chemotherapy back then was, like… they only made, like, 7 medicines existed back in the 90s for chemo.
00:17:44.080 --> 00:17:44.530 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:17:44.530 --> 00:17:59.459 MZ: And it turns out that the doctors didn't explain this part to me, which is the part that was most frustrating, but Jay noticed that two of the chemicals that were in there would have given me, at the dose they were preparing for, near-permanent hearing loss.
00:17:59.790 --> 00:18:03.050 MZ: And near-permanent neuropathy in my fingers and toes.
00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:13.480 MZ: Now, I was a recovering concert pianist, and all I cared about at 22 years old was becoming
00:18:13.700 --> 00:18:22.069 MZ: reclaiming, a sense, that musicianship that I might ever go to grad school in a meaningful way, because I couldn't go
00:18:22.290 --> 00:18:25.679 MZ: That fall, I could wait till the next fall of 97.
00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:27.050 Frank R. Harrison: Right, right.
00:18:28.540 --> 00:18:29.800 MZ: Jay said to me.
00:18:30.510 --> 00:18:38.540 MZ: Matt, you don't want chemotherapy. Even if it extends your life by 80 years, who will you be
00:18:38.710 --> 00:18:42.009 MZ: If you can't hear, and you can't play piano.
00:18:42.260 --> 00:18:43.410 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:50.060 MZ: So, can you imagine a 49-year-old man telling his 22-year-old godson that you'd rather die.
00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:52.279 Frank R. Harrison: In a year or two or three.
00:18:52.600 --> 00:18:58.270 MZ: Because that was the prognosis. Once they said, oh, you're alive, great, let's figure out how long are we thinking and live for.
00:18:58.660 --> 00:18:59.170 Frank R. Harrison: Yeah.
00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:10.499 MZ: I'd rather die in 5 years or less, taking a risk of not doing this, if I could be a musician through my 20s, than live a full life, deaf, and basically, you know, my fingers remute.
00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:11.550 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:19:11.550 --> 00:19:15.269 MZ: The doctors never even thought to tell me
00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:17.960 MZ: Those were the side effects of their protocol.
00:19:18.890 --> 00:19:26.380 MZ: They didn't have even the slightest empathy that we're gonna give this kid that we nearly just killed with radiation and surgery.
00:19:26.650 --> 00:19:27.120 Frank R. Harrison: Hmm.
00:19:27.120 --> 00:19:29.250 MZ: No life, but he might live.
00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:33.020 MZ: So, we went to that meeting.
00:19:33.020 --> 00:19:52.990 MZ: I said, we don't want chemotherapy, I'd rather die in 5 years as a musician. They yelled at us, they said, how dare you question our authority? And I walked out. And on May 27th, 1996 was my last day as a cancer patient, and my first day as a cancer survivor.
00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:54.100 Frank R. Harrison: Nice.
00:19:54.360 --> 00:19:55.090 Frank R. Harrison: Nice.
00:19:55.090 --> 00:20:00.479 MZ: So, the thread from that to Stupid Cancer was pretty straightforward. I didn't really have a 20s.
00:20:00.590 --> 00:20:11.780 MZ: I was burned and skinny, I couldn't eat, I was impotent and fertile, you know, bald, everything else. But I muddled through Plan B, which is I worked in the advertising industry for about a decade.
00:20:11.780 --> 00:20:24.120 MZ: Just to get by. Couldn't date, couldn't have… all my friends went to grad school. But I muddled through long enough to rehab my left hand, and I started giving private piano concerts for fundraisers for cancer research.
00:20:24.370 --> 00:20:25.000 Frank R. Harrison: Great.
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:31.750 MZ: At one of those events, I was espied by another young man who became my first cancer buddy.
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:35.250 MZ: I didn't even know it was possible to have a cancer buddy.
00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:36.200 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:43.530 MZ: And this guy named Craig Lustig, he's still a really… one of my best friends on the planet, worked for Livestrong.
00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:46.590 MZ: Those yellow wristbands back in the day.
00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:47.190 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:52.130 MZ: And he sat down with me and said, Matt, how would you like to be a cancer advocate?
00:20:53.490 --> 00:21:02.589 MZ: He was a young adult survivor with brain cancer in his 20s, he was also bald and Jewish from New York, and he went to Binghamton, he was a year ahead of me.
00:21:02.740 --> 00:21:08.479 Frank R. Harrison: Right. So the man ticked 8 boxes on our first date, and I said, what the hell is a cancer advocate?
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:23.540 MZ: This is 2003! It's like, well, it kind of means that maybe the next year we'll have a less crappier time going through this. Like, I'm sold. What do I do? Right. So then I spent 3 or 4 years peeling myself away from my day job.
00:21:23.900 --> 00:21:27.430 MZ: And I learned about how there was a massive disquity.
00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:29.100 MZ: in Gen X.
00:21:29.290 --> 00:21:38.389 MZ: They were kids, and boomers, and seniors, but the Gen X world, we were kind of screwed, because no one cared that we were in this
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:49.689 MZ: nebulous age group. We get different cancers, we're misdiagnosed, we're delayed diagnosis, we have different needs, our gonads should be working, we should be able to go out on dates.
00:21:49.800 --> 00:21:52.410 MZ: So I wanted to start a populist brand.
00:21:52.790 --> 00:21:53.360 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:21:53.360 --> 00:21:58.189 MZ: that targeted Gen X to give us a collective voice.
00:21:58.300 --> 00:22:03.930 MZ: And that's where Stupid Cancer came from, and by today's standards, that's a demure name.
00:22:04.050 --> 00:22:09.210 MZ: But in 2005 and 6, that was a shocking thing to do.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:09.980 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:13.399 MZ: create something populist in cancer land.
00:22:13.820 --> 00:22:15.950 Frank R. Harrison: Pushing the envelope, but for a good cause.
00:22:15.950 --> 00:22:26.590 MZ: And it worked! It became, like, this really phenomenal juggernaut populist brand that galvanized hundreds of thousands of people around the world to belong to something
00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:28.999 MZ: That they didn't know they needed.
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:35.459 MZ: And the milestone of running that organization for 13 years was I became the world's first
00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:42.529 MZ: healthcare podcaster, but they didn't call it that back then. It was Internet Talk Radio.
00:22:44.070 --> 00:22:45.510 Frank R. Harrison: Just like here.
00:22:45.510 --> 00:22:46.050 MZ: Yeah.
00:22:46.050 --> 00:22:51.289 Frank R. Harrison: TalkRadio.nyc, which was called, at that time, Talking Alternative Broadcasting.
00:22:51.290 --> 00:22:51.680 MZ: Yeah.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:52.790 Frank R. Harrison: I understand.
00:22:52.790 --> 00:22:53.210 MZ: So.
00:22:53.210 --> 00:22:54.440 Frank R. Harrison: We're evolving together.
00:22:54.440 --> 00:23:13.599 MZ: internet talk radio streaming live on Mondays from 8 to 9 Eastern. The stupid cancer show, you know, went live May 27th, 2007, and I haven't shut up since for 18 years. So, that's kind of what led me to what I'm doing today, because when I… when I stepped down.
00:23:13.770 --> 00:23:20.880 MZ: In 2019, I took the show with me because the organization couldn't do anything with the IP once I left.
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:39.909 MZ: So then I renamed the show, Out of Patients. And I've now produced close to 800 episodes of Out of Patience, plus the 700 I did with the Stupid Cancer Show, to now very proudly be the longest-standing independent healthcare podcaster on the planet.
00:23:40.040 --> 00:23:42.440 MZ: And it's been very, very gratifying.
00:23:43.580 --> 00:23:54.419 Frank R. Harrison: Wow. So, I mean, I have lots of questions, being that I'm on… I think I'm on my 169th show, or at this point, Frank About Health began during COVID time, but yet…
00:23:54.550 --> 00:24:12.900 Frank R. Harrison: I, being an epileptic individual, was focused on just one niche, similar to you, but although cancer is a much bigger niche to focus on. So, for me, it's all been about health advocacy going forward. What do you think is motivating you to keep with the longevity, even though the fact that you're the longest-standing one
00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:23.779 Frank R. Harrison: And… what kind of moments in your life have allowed you to… drive you to continue, even when you must have had your share of frustrating moments or guests or situations?
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:30.609 MZ: Honestly, I've only not produced two episodes that I've recorded, because the guests were, like.
00:24:30.820 --> 00:24:42.120 MZ: subpar. I also… I mean, pandemic, yes, I use Zoom and other platforms, but I'm a purist in the radio sense. The Stupid Cancer Show had a studio.
00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:49.189 MZ: like a real radio studio, and we had live guests, and on occasion, if someone was international, we had Skype.
00:24:49.590 --> 00:24:51.479 MZ: And we didn't do video.
00:24:51.540 --> 00:25:10.990 MZ: But the purism of radio is kind of where I put my flag on the ground. Radio is an art form. Your voice is an art form. Anything video is television. Video broadcasting isn't podcasting. I'm a hardcore on this, and right now my show is live.
00:25:11.270 --> 00:25:22.020 MZ: I'm actually here in my studio now, near Penn Station. I record live, but what's kept me enjoying this, A, I've monetized my show, so it's a living at this point now.
00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:22.460 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:27.469 MZ: But I have the privilege of saying things that are in other people's heads that they can never say.
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:41.749 MZ: I have the privilege of being a unique personality, a unique sort of, civic critic, a unique sort of, populist American advocate.
00:25:42.040 --> 00:25:52.470 MZ: for very specific issues. I'm not the cancer guy anymore. I opine, wax poetic, and curse profusely at many, many different things these days.
00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:52.790 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:25:52.790 --> 00:25:54.920 MZ: So, that to me is like.
00:25:55.770 --> 00:26:09.239 MZ: dopamine, I enjoy it, I love the pedigree, I love being independent, I'm not beholden to a larger system, I love distribution partnerships, I love working with brands, I love elevating and highlighting causes that are valuable to me.
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:18.619 MZ: And I love it being one of the only ways people can get in touch with me. Because I'm not into that Gary Vaynerchuk crap, where you gotta be everywhere like Jackson Pollock.
00:26:19.220 --> 00:26:21.580 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, you mean, like, Spotify, Apple, Pandora?
00:26:21.580 --> 00:26:26.870 MZ: No, I mean, like, TikTok, and Instagram, and X, and…
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:39.619 MZ: Discord and Substack. Gary Vaynerchuk, mad respect to that guy. But splattering everything at the wall is not a great strategy when you are an audio guy.
00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:40.750 Frank R. Harrison: Correct.
00:26:40.750 --> 00:26:45.609 MZ: So, if you want to know where I am, I'm on LinkedIn, and I'm on my show.
00:26:46.410 --> 00:26:48.750 Frank R. Harrison: Well, you have your own portal, your own website.
00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.160 MZ: Yes, Matthewsacker.com and out of patience.com.
00:26:52.740 --> 00:27:04.230 Frank R. Harrison: Awesome, awesome. So then, for you to be on TalkRadio.nyc from your studio, this… would this be your first video representation of Stupid Cancer, sort of.
00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:10.769 MZ: Oh, no, I've done plenty of live camera… direct-to-camera interviews and…
00:27:11.010 --> 00:27:19.470 MZ: I mean, live TV, live everything. I just think it's full circle that, you know, people are watching this now not on a dial-up modem.
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:28.449 Frank R. Harrison: That's true, that's true. You know, I mean, my god, the last time I heard a dial-up modem, it was 1997. You know?
00:27:28.450 --> 00:27:39.149 MZ: I used to have a soundboard when we did the stupid cancer show, so I could, like, hit these buttons, and, like, I could, like, hit, like, Homer going, dope, or whatever, and, like, we had a modem sound, like…
00:27:39.460 --> 00:27:40.239 MZ: We could do that.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:47.999 Frank R. Harrison: Wow, I'm having my, my, my moments when you just did that noise.
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:55.700 Frank R. Harrison: I still have lots of questions, and I think we're about to head towards our second break, but, I think, if anything.
00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:01.019 Frank R. Harrison: the authenticity of radio, I can see, especially when you're talking about something so…
00:28:01.590 --> 00:28:13.769 Frank R. Harrison: So, it's not unique, brain cancer, but from your story point of view, I think I would have an easier time of listening and believing it just by hearing it, rather than seeing it.
00:28:13.770 --> 00:28:14.340 MZ: Yep.
00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:20.850 Frank R. Harrison: You know, although, it's just giving me thoughts about, you know, the way I try to use my voices of disruption.
00:28:20.870 --> 00:28:38.290 Frank R. Harrison: I'm trying to create social change in my own way, and in today's world with AI and video and whatever, that's the way I'm used to thinking we create an impact. But the one thing I want to share with the audience before we go to break is that not only have you relearned
00:28:38.290 --> 00:28:47.970 Frank R. Harrison: how to be that musician, but you actually used your musicianship to go to Congress and actually play concerts for fundraising for cancer, correct?
00:28:48.210 --> 00:28:51.290 MZ: I did back in the day, and that will probably be starting up again soon.
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:59.380 Frank R. Harrison: That's what we will start the next segment with, especially when we also talk more about how we are patients.
00:28:59.530 --> 00:29:09.489 Frank R. Harrison: Alrighty. So, ladies and gentlemen, please stay tuned right here on talkradio.nyc, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitch. We will be back in a few.
00:30:49.860 --> 00:30:58.729 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, and welcome back. Now, let's go right into your music advocacy aspect of your
00:30:58.930 --> 00:31:01.429 Frank R. Harrison: Of your career.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:04.509 Frank R. Harrison: I'll add an unmute first, when you have a tune.
00:31:05.180 --> 00:31:06.090 MZ: Look at that.
00:31:06.360 --> 00:31:11.830 MZ: Who knew I had to unmute these days? God, that's the story of the 20… 2020s is you're on mute.
00:31:13.790 --> 00:31:21.350 MZ: I'm in a great place, because I'm finally getting back to my roots, and I'm able to look at where I can get back on stage.
00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:32.180 MZ: what my performances can mean to me, how I can leverage it into what my message is to other people, and where it kind of weaves into what my goals are for the next 10 years.
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:38.110 MZ: So, a lot of this has been catalyzed by the fact that my first book is coming out in January.
00:31:38.280 --> 00:31:54.310 MZ: From Wiley, and I'm incredibly excited. My whole universe is like, oh my god, Matt's got a book, he's gonna tear a hole in something when this book goes out there in January. So the pre-sales are January 12th, and, pub date is May 19th, and it'll be on Matthew Zachary.
00:31:54.310 --> 00:32:00.960 MZ: But the book is called We the Patients, How to Understand, Navigate, and Survive America's Healthcare Nightmare.
00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:09.280 MZ: And it's a bit of a comedy history book from the patient's perspective on the last 120 years of why we can't have nice things.
00:32:09.710 --> 00:32:10.120 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:29.179 MZ: That's kind of the elevator pitch for the book. It talks about the highs and the lows, and some of the heroes we've never heard of before, what success looks like, where we are now, how to life hack your way through some of the crap. But it kind of ends on a nice high note.
00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:36.360 MZ: Which is that I believe… that it's time for America to rethink what advocacy means.
00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:37.280 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:32:37.280 --> 00:32:46.840 MZ: And all of that was going to be released to the world when the book launches with my first public concert at Lincoln Center on April 28th.
00:32:46.840 --> 00:32:47.810 Frank R. Harrison: Awesome.
00:32:47.810 --> 00:32:54.629 MZ: That is the coming out day for me. This book's gonna be out there. The pub date's a week or two later.
00:32:54.970 --> 00:33:02.150 MZ: And I'll be launching… a new social movement of the same name, We the patients, Which…
00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:08.740 MZ: surprisingly, has never been a thought before in American history, and I don't say that lightly.
00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:09.580 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:33:09.580 --> 00:33:20.019 MZ: Every angry mob in America figures out how to organize and become a lobby and become a PAC, and then basically they get to pick their political leaders.
00:33:20.260 --> 00:33:20.810 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:33:21.430 --> 00:33:32.910 MZ: The NRA has 4 million members, and yet they control so much narrative, of course, they're based on constitutional rights, or the interpretation of constitutional rights. Planned Parenthood.
00:33:33.090 --> 00:33:36.640 MZ: ARP, the military, everyone has a PAC.
00:33:37.620 --> 00:33:40.699 MZ: The question I have is, what would happen
00:33:41.390 --> 00:33:44.570 MZ: If we started to look at the cancer community alone.
00:33:45.310 --> 00:33:52.359 MZ: is 40 million Americans. That's real data. 40 million Americans comprise… there were 19 million survivors and roughly 1 point…
00:33:52.500 --> 00:34:02.410 MZ: It's weird to say, like, one and a half people are cancer survivor. It's like, yeah, the top half of my dad is my advocate, but roughly 40 million Americans would agree
00:34:02.660 --> 00:34:06.090 MZ: On a single issue, narrative.
00:34:06.760 --> 00:34:11.709 MZ: And what is that issue narrative? What would we want to see if we organized as the cancer lobby?
00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:17.050 MZ: Right. The first ever voter block based on patient needs.
00:34:17.830 --> 00:34:32.150 MZ: What would that mean to Wall Street? What would that mean to Main Street? What would that mean to industry? Who… the gun manufacturers of the NRA would be the drug manufacturers of the cancer movement. The very idea comes down to one issue.
00:34:33.050 --> 00:34:37.279 MZ: Really boils down to one issue, which is that in polling.
00:34:37.540 --> 00:34:39.729 MZ: thousands of people that I happen to know.
00:34:40.030 --> 00:34:43.049 MZ: And this is also, you can search for this, this is true data.
00:34:43.449 --> 00:34:45.900 MZ: Cancer patients are more afraid.
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:47.830 MZ: of bankruptcy.
00:34:48.110 --> 00:34:49.139 MZ: than cure.
00:34:50.550 --> 00:35:00.270 MZ: More cancer patients, or more people who could get screened and then get diagnosed for cancer, delay that treatment because they're afraid of going broke.
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:01.880 Frank R. Harrison: Wow.
00:35:02.060 --> 00:35:04.440 MZ: Medical oncology debt.
00:35:04.570 --> 00:35:07.750 MZ: Is 66% of all bankruptcies.
00:35:08.570 --> 00:35:14.089 MZ: And two-thirds of all cancer patients face medical debt when they're in care.
00:35:14.230 --> 00:35:17.919 MZ: These are real data points on weThePatients.org.
00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:22.680 MZ: And if you go there, it'll scare the crap out of you, because this is real data.
00:35:22.890 --> 00:35:28.879 MZ: And it's not wonky data from an academic institution or some doctor telling you what to think. This is the people's data.
00:35:29.310 --> 00:35:29.860 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:35:30.210 --> 00:35:33.170 MZ: the idea… isn't about
00:35:33.870 --> 00:35:43.009 MZ: I would say, an entitlement, or an asset, or a nice-to-have, we're talking about protecting voters.
00:35:43.210 --> 00:35:47.029 MZ: from the harm That health insurance brings upon them.
00:35:47.420 --> 00:35:51.380 MZ: And that harm may be physical, but financial harm.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.540 MZ: And financial harm affects state budgets.
00:35:56.010 --> 00:35:56.650 Frank R. Harrison: Yep.
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:02.529 MZ: So the working theory of what this will become as the electric starts to form over the next two years
00:36:02.790 --> 00:36:09.559 MZ: We want to see protection laws in our states that forgive oncology medical debt.
00:36:09.700 --> 00:36:26.600 MZ: Because the math works out that more people will cost the system less money if you take that variable away. And the state will have to have a budget yield by forgiving. We're not saying cancer's gonna be free, cancer's free. The concept.
00:36:26.910 --> 00:36:32.840 MZ: Is that an electorate of 40 million people would vote For a ballot initiative.
00:36:33.070 --> 00:36:39.070 MZ: That gets mandatory debt forgiveness at a certain threshold in their states approved.
00:36:39.570 --> 00:36:40.220 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:36:40.680 --> 00:36:44.170 MZ: And then the second part of what the cancer community really wants
00:36:44.630 --> 00:36:47.180 MZ: is, what the hell do I do?
00:36:47.560 --> 00:36:51.930 MZ: When I step into the store, I never ask to shop in.
00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:54.400 MZ: It'd be nice to have an ombudsman.
00:36:54.590 --> 00:37:00.030 MZ: Or a clinical care coordinator, or some mandatory nurse navigator in place.
00:37:00.260 --> 00:37:00.780 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:06.680 MZ: So there's a second part of the idea of what a cancer lobby would want, besides medical debt forgiveness.
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:09.050 Frank R. Harrison: Right. Is we want mandatory.
00:37:09.050 --> 00:37:10.460 MZ: nurse navigation.
00:37:11.230 --> 00:37:26.939 MZ: And those are the nurses who aren't just nurses, they're trained in specialties to help you figure out the loopholes, the strategies, unraveling your threads, getting you to care, dealing with your prior authorizations, and giving you mental health access.
00:37:27.180 --> 00:37:27.830 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:30.450 MZ: That's what we, the patience, is forming as.
00:37:30.690 --> 00:37:32.219 MZ: It's a slow burn.
00:37:32.870 --> 00:37:35.550 MZ: Anyone that wants to sign up, it's a pledge.
00:37:35.700 --> 00:37:37.609 MZ: There's no membership fees.
00:37:37.750 --> 00:37:41.480 MZ: We are looking to get about a million people signed up by the end of 2026.
00:37:41.650 --> 00:37:52.109 MZ: And then we'll be surveying you, asking you questions, confirming our beliefs, looking at districts, and starting to identify the lawmakers.
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.819 Frank R. Harrison: Who would be amenable to realizing.
00:37:55.120 --> 00:38:01.199 MZ: That 20% of every one of the 435 districts is the cancer lobby.
00:38:02.590 --> 00:38:10.220 Frank R. Harrison: You have just taken my focus of questioning into the political realm, but in a good way, so bear with me while I…
00:38:10.600 --> 00:38:14.450 Frank R. Harrison: formulate a question that I didn't even pre-screen with you.
00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:18.079 Frank R. Harrison: You know about the big, beautiful bill. We all do.
00:38:19.070 --> 00:38:21.620 Frank R. Harrison: And we also know we're headed for the midterms in 2020.
00:38:21.940 --> 00:38:22.710 Frank R. Harrison: 6.
00:38:23.560 --> 00:38:31.710 Frank R. Harrison: Are you planning this, not only your book release and your concert, but also everything that you've just said about how people can join on your website.
00:38:31.810 --> 00:38:47.800 Frank R. Harrison: in tandem with the midterms to create change on what's been done, or has that been the motivation for you to create it, and whatever happens in 2026 could be a byproduct of, or probably could just be running in coincidence with We the People?
00:38:48.200 --> 00:38:51.339 MZ: The original idea had nothing to do with the midterms.
00:38:51.740 --> 00:38:52.150 Frank R. Harrison: Okay.
00:38:52.150 --> 00:38:56.570 MZ: This all happened before they murdered that guy, the UnitedHealthcare guy.
00:38:56.570 --> 00:38:57.839 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, yeah.
00:38:57.840 --> 00:38:59.170 MZ: Ryan Thompson.
00:38:59.170 --> 00:39:05.639 Frank R. Harrison: Yeah, from my Luigi Mangioni, or… Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's, by the way, an anti-hero for the right reasons or the wrong reasons?
00:39:05.790 --> 00:39:10.110 MZ: Right? When you're celebrating the death of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare.
00:39:10.510 --> 00:39:14.510 MZ: That speaks to how much pain the American people are in.
00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:15.270 Frank R. Harrison: Yep.
00:39:15.270 --> 00:39:22.060 MZ: And it cannot be ignored. And that his… what is it? His legal GoFundMe is, like, at $2 million now?
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:27.370 MZ: Right? That speaks to a lot of things that's being completely disregarded.
00:39:27.550 --> 00:39:35.129 MZ: in the narrative on the mainstream media. And I'm not, like, a mainstream media, you know, conspiracy theorist. It's just, it's in a narrative.
00:39:35.250 --> 00:39:43.099 MZ: It's the people's narrative. It's not the news media's narrative. So all of these ideas about if the cancer community was a voter block.
00:39:43.250 --> 00:39:50.099 MZ: were long before this happened. If anything, and I say this with a certain degree of largesse, is
00:39:50.330 --> 00:39:55.840 MZ: They're kind of doing me a favor by getting more people more angry.
00:39:56.430 --> 00:40:07.859 MZ: You know, I look at the blue wave, I mean, look, I'm… I'm… don't disclose my political beliefs, so I'm pretty much right in the middle with normal people, which I believe is most people are just… normal? Remember normal? So…
00:40:08.230 --> 00:40:10.669 MZ: Little here, little there, that's fine with me.
00:40:10.670 --> 00:40:12.569 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly, exactly.
00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:25.420 MZ: They're doing the work for us. Stripping out the subsidies, getting rid of cancer research, destroying pediatric cancer strategies, getting rid of DEI, like, these are bad… no, I hope no one voted for this.
00:40:25.640 --> 00:40:41.450 MZ: That's my point. Somehow America voted for this without realizing they're voting for this. I can guarantee you, if I go around the country and say, did you vote to kill kid cancer research? No, I didn't! I'm pretty sure that you're not gonna say yes to that question.
00:40:42.250 --> 00:40:43.020 Frank R. Harrison: Wow.
00:40:43.020 --> 00:40:47.440 MZ: So, the 26 midterms, I think, are starting to speak for themselves.
00:40:48.170 --> 00:40:48.770 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:40:48.770 --> 00:40:56.980 MZ: So, I don't particularly at the… and I have, like, 3 co-founders and a whole bunch of cohorts that you can see on the website. We're a team.
00:40:57.310 --> 00:40:57.630 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:40:57.630 --> 00:41:03.939 MZ: And I kind of speak for the movement that's being nasantly built right now, where this has to be done in a way
00:41:04.600 --> 00:41:06.680 MZ: That is as purple as possible.
00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:08.030 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:12.570 MZ: This bipartisan. This is single issue.
00:41:13.010 --> 00:41:18.609 MZ: Cancer can kill you whether you voted for this guy or that guy. It doesn't matter.
00:41:18.790 --> 00:41:21.950 MZ: What matters is you deserve protections from harm.
00:41:22.390 --> 00:41:23.090 Frank R. Harrison: That's right.
00:41:23.090 --> 00:41:30.999 MZ: And that is the most democratic way to think about this. That is the most patriotic thing to think about this. Which is why it's we the patients.
00:41:31.580 --> 00:41:32.110 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:41:32.110 --> 00:41:33.289 MZ: And not we the people.
00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:37.929 MZ: Correct. Because that's constitutionalism, and that's completely different from this conversation.
00:41:37.930 --> 00:41:38.730 Frank R. Harrison: Correct, correct.
00:41:38.730 --> 00:41:41.600 MZ: I see the midterms as data.
00:41:41.930 --> 00:41:47.010 MZ: That are going to inform The movement, of the trajectories.
00:41:47.390 --> 00:41:49.910 Frank R. Harrison: Okay. But the single biggest issue.
00:41:49.910 --> 00:41:53.000 MZ: That is not directly related to voter interest.
00:41:53.260 --> 00:42:01.010 MZ: Is how can you stop the cholesterol between… Your doctor?
00:42:01.350 --> 00:42:07.500 MZ: Believing you deserve this as your prescription, and all the things in the way of you getting that.
00:42:08.110 --> 00:42:08.750 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:42:09.530 --> 00:42:14.389 MZ: There are too many middlemen between you and your doctor.
00:42:14.810 --> 00:42:16.910 MZ: And that often means life and death.
00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:20.439 MZ: As of this recording, I'm drinking.
00:42:21.700 --> 00:42:23.620 MZ: As of this taping.
00:42:23.830 --> 00:42:24.430 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:42:24.430 --> 00:42:30.829 MZ: Two weeks ago, A guy with liver cancer died waiting for an approval from UnitedHealthcare.
00:42:32.660 --> 00:42:36.059 Frank R. Harrison: Hmm. They approved it 2 days before he died, they waited 3 months.
00:42:38.200 --> 00:42:41.799 MZ: There is more harm done by prior authorization.
00:42:42.230 --> 00:42:42.620 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:42:42.710 --> 00:42:45.059 MZ: any other mechanism in U.S. healthcare.
00:42:45.210 --> 00:42:48.970 MZ: More than bankruptcy, because you're just gonna die, then your debt goes away.
00:42:50.660 --> 00:42:56.320 MZ: So… go to… go to Tennessee, go to Arkansas, go to Latte Drink in Queens, doesn't matter.
00:42:56.900 --> 00:43:12.309 MZ: Should anyone die? Because your health insurance determines whether you live or die? No! That is unacceptable, that is un-American, but there are ways to address it that are pro-capitalist. Because this is not Occupy Wall Street. This is not people over profits. That's a separate fight to have.
00:43:12.860 --> 00:43:13.470 MZ: This is…
00:43:13.470 --> 00:43:13.990 Frank R. Harrison: Well, commute.
00:43:13.990 --> 00:43:14.420 MZ: equity.
00:43:14.420 --> 00:43:14.760 Frank R. Harrison: ending.
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:15.300 MZ: In life.
00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:22.559 Frank R. Harrison: Yes. To help with the narrative that we all really feel, regardless of what the system is currently presenting itself to be.
00:43:22.560 --> 00:43:27.239 MZ: Right, because this isn't about what bathroom you pee in, or abortion, not about that.
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.340 MZ: What good is anything if you die on hold?
00:43:31.230 --> 00:43:35.810 Frank R. Harrison: That's my argument. That is the argument and the positioning of the popular spread with the patients.
00:43:35.810 --> 00:43:41.970 MZ: We're gonna unite and organize on the fact that we are sick, And sick and tired.
00:43:42.620 --> 00:43:46.470 MZ: Of health insurance determining whether we live or die.
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:48.460 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible.
00:43:49.080 --> 00:43:50.270 Frank R. Harrison: Incredible.
00:43:50.530 --> 00:44:04.569 Frank R. Harrison: It blows my mind, because I actually, you know, I, you know, truth be told, you and I had met earlier this afternoon, and I had come back because I knew that this would give us the best show possible, but…
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:10.519 Frank R. Harrison: My father's, occupational therapist was here in the room.
00:44:10.670 --> 00:44:16.880 Frank R. Harrison: Going over, you know, just the appointment schedule for the holiday season.
00:44:16.930 --> 00:44:32.220 Frank R. Harrison: And I asked her, by the way, ever since, the big, beautiful bill, have you already noticed any changes? And she said something similar, that she had a patient approval of 20 extra visits for, I think it was an Alzheimer's patient?
00:44:32.420 --> 00:44:40.250 Frank R. Harrison: But the insurance company… Basically, decided not to increase beyond the standard 20, because they didn't want to use.
00:44:40.720 --> 00:44:43.679 Frank R. Harrison: the insurance benefit, it didn't make any sense to me.
00:44:43.780 --> 00:44:50.830 Frank R. Harrison: But… You've just echoed that from the example of the guy with liver cancer, so… I guess, if anything.
00:44:51.160 --> 00:44:59.099 Frank R. Harrison: you're hoping that this book and your concert is gonna create some response to the big, beautiful bill and what it's already changing.
00:45:00.210 --> 00:45:00.950 Frank R. Harrison: Correct?
00:45:00.950 --> 00:45:02.579 MZ: It's a big lift, but yes.
00:45:02.580 --> 00:45:12.329 Frank R. Harrison: Okay, so that would be the go-to, but the midterms, like you said, is a data point, and if anything, the real data result happens in 2028, so…
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:29.720 Frank R. Harrison: I figure, if anything, I really look forward… well, I'm gonna be at your concert, I just had to buy the tickets when they go on sale. Yeah. You know, when we return, because we're about to take our final break, I'm gonna share what I've been doing in the Lincoln Center area, a little bit of which you already know.
00:45:29.720 --> 00:45:46.699 Frank R. Harrison: But it's in relation to using this platform to do what I can to come up with a solution for everyone that's going from the stress of the big, beautiful bill, which you obviously have been doing, especially with cancer patients. All right, everybody, we'll just be back in a few. Stay tuned.
00:47:19.470 --> 00:47:32.020 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, and again, I am amazed already that 45 minutes has gone by so fast, because we've only touched upon what you're doing. I am gonna publicly invite you to come back.
00:47:32.150 --> 00:47:35.210 Frank R. Harrison: probably at some point in January, especially because…
00:47:35.510 --> 00:47:45.470 Frank R. Harrison: you know as well as I do that you are going to be appearing in a documentary soon that was produced by Dr. Todd Otten, who was on Frankabout Health last week.
00:47:46.010 --> 00:47:49.219 Frank R. Harrison: and was talking about Suck It Up, Buttercup.
00:47:49.600 --> 00:48:06.140 Frank R. Harrison: You know, and you obviously are involved in that kind of advocacy that that film, that documentary discusses. Would you like to share a little bit about your segment in there? I know it's going to be released probably in February or sometime like that. Do you want to give a teaser about it?
00:48:06.470 --> 00:48:08.309 Frank R. Harrison: After you unmute?
00:48:10.870 --> 00:48:12.979 MZ: Story of my life, you're on mute.
00:48:12.980 --> 00:48:13.550 Frank R. Harrison: Yeah.
00:48:13.730 --> 00:48:20.980 MZ: I had the privilege of meeting Todd and his partner, Gabe Charbonneau at Medicine Forward at the Physician Burnout Summit in 2022.
00:48:21.110 --> 00:48:29.719 MZ: And I kind of went down this rabbit hole of, like, wow, I don't want my oncologist to want to kill himself. It's a bad idea! You know, and what does moral injury mean?
00:48:29.990 --> 00:48:34.150 MZ: In the scheme of how patients can be a voice for that, because we're currently not.
00:48:34.640 --> 00:48:49.309 MZ: I don't know why that hasn't been the thing, but I can only imagine the cancer community would not want their oncologist to be suicidal. Right. And I say that with a degree of tongue-in-cheek, because that's just how you have to start to think about it. It's too dark to not, like, have a little weird
00:48:49.530 --> 00:48:51.299 MZ: You know, perspective on this.
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:54.379 MZ: But what could the cancer community do?
00:48:55.510 --> 00:48:56.559 MZ: from a…
00:48:56.920 --> 00:49:04.869 MZ: legislative perspective, as a voter block, to mandate reducing harm for the doctors that are trying to cure us and practice Hippocrates.
00:49:05.100 --> 00:49:06.290 MZ: So…
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:11.300 MZ: Todd want to be on this documentary? He's like, Matt, we can't do this or that. You're like, yes, you can. Like, no, we can't. Okay, great.
00:49:12.470 --> 00:49:14.310 MZ: Who are you, Dr. Tabotten?
00:49:14.580 --> 00:49:17.570 MZ: And he wanted me on there to basically have this point of view.
00:49:17.600 --> 00:49:40.590 MZ: Like, I… that's what it is, like, yeah, fine, Mark Cuban and Gloncum Fleck, that's great, they're doctors, that's fine. Mark's a billionaire Wall Street guy. The argument is, where is the economic benefit of reducing harm in physicians? This is the stupid country if they think that way. Who makes the most money when doctors don't want to kill themselves? And pharmacists don't want to kill themselves, and nurses don't want to kill themselves. That's how you have to think about it.
00:49:40.830 --> 00:49:46.160 MZ: But if there was an electorate that demanded this as part of policies that protect
00:49:47.240 --> 00:49:52.490 MZ: That is where I'm, like, hanging my hat. This has to come from the grassroots up.
00:49:53.000 --> 00:50:06.829 MZ: And a lot of physicians that are now expats going into private practice and pharmacists going to private practice, they can now be part of the cancer lobby, irrespective of them being cancer patients. This is… I remember, like, at Stupid Cancer, we hired people that, like.
00:50:07.050 --> 00:50:26.339 MZ: Do I have to have cancer to work here? Like, no! It's a benefit! Be grateful you don't have it! Correct. Because this is not about cancer specifically, it's the single issues. Who wouldn't want to piggyback on a new political movement, bipartisan political movement, that is going to reduce harm?
00:50:26.540 --> 00:50:29.940 MZ: Yes. Extend life and save money at the same time.
00:50:30.110 --> 00:50:30.720 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:31.920 Frank R. Harrison: Absolutely.
00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:34.670 MZ: And that was what he wanted me on the documentary for.
00:50:35.780 --> 00:50:50.989 Frank R. Harrison: But overall, from the moment we started talking at the top of the hour with your non-for-profit, your podcast, We the People, the upcoming book, your concert, your fundraising, and of course, your upcoming scene in this documentary.
00:50:51.040 --> 00:50:59.819 Frank R. Harrison: What would you say that your life with brain cancer has given you as a life mission? What is driving you overall?
00:51:00.140 --> 00:51:02.709 Frank R. Harrison: Because I could see you're on a mission.
00:51:02.710 --> 00:51:05.650 MZ: That is bigger than the cancer itself, and thankfully.
00:51:05.790 --> 00:51:15.499 Frank R. Harrison: You know, but you definitely want to create a change. What is the biggest aspect of everything you've been doing that is forcing you to really fight and advocate?
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:20.319 MZ: The funny answer would be, if you have to ask, you'll never know.
00:51:21.090 --> 00:51:27.029 MZ: True. But the real answer is that if I didn't do it, it wouldn't get done, and I echo that amongst many of my peers.
00:51:27.850 --> 00:51:28.480 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:51:28.580 --> 00:51:36.659 Frank R. Harrison: No, that is true. I kind of identify that, but for me, it's always been about removing stigmas and really understanding mental health, but…
00:51:36.710 --> 00:51:48.450 Frank R. Harrison: Something more serious like this, which I'm now responding to, the big, beautiful bill, the cutbacks, the NIH being defunded, mRNA vaccines not being taken seriously, or even
00:51:48.450 --> 00:52:02.799 Frank R. Harrison: God knows what's gonna happen in 2026 with those Obamacare recipients. I mean, it really is scary, and, you know, cancer is one cohort, or segment, if you will, 40 million, as you said.
00:52:03.370 --> 00:52:07.599 Frank R. Harrison: But with everybody now struggling to finance their healthcare.
00:52:07.740 --> 00:52:16.989 Frank R. Harrison: I can only imagine mortality rates are gonna increase. Now, over the long haul, but why even get there? Why even be in that position?
00:52:17.190 --> 00:52:20.709 Frank R. Harrison: You know, and so it just tells me that
00:52:21.160 --> 00:52:25.980 Frank R. Harrison: We the patients, or we the people, or we the advocates.
00:52:26.120 --> 00:52:29.700 Frank R. Harrison: Really have to take charge, even more so now than ever.
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:31.779 Frank R. Harrison: I'm correct in saying that, right?
00:52:31.780 --> 00:52:34.639 MZ: It's all about organizing for the first time in American history.
00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:37.090 Frank R. Harrison: It's just… Yeah, it is the first time. …organizing.
00:52:37.090 --> 00:52:42.389 MZ: For the first time in 350 years of this company, country.
00:52:42.560 --> 00:52:44.100 MZ: Same thing.
00:52:44.100 --> 00:52:44.640 Frank R. Harrison: 150.
00:52:44.640 --> 00:52:48.970 MZ: This country is a company, basically. 250, 250 years, math.
00:52:49.130 --> 00:52:51.359 Frank R. Harrison: Yes. We've never organized.
00:52:51.540 --> 00:52:52.980 MZ: As a voter block.
00:52:53.710 --> 00:52:56.269 MZ: And we're sick and tired of being sick and tired.
00:52:57.790 --> 00:53:17.480 Frank R. Harrison: Wow. Wow. Okay, that makes me then announce to everyone who's watching, as well as to you, that what I have been doing for the last three and a half months, besides, obviously, my Voices of Disruption campaign on Frank About Health, is I've been working with my alma mater at Lincoln Center, the Fordham Gabelli School of Business.
00:53:17.720 --> 00:53:22.339 Frank R. Harrison: On developing a nonpartisan financial product.
00:53:22.910 --> 00:53:30.779 Frank R. Harrison: to be introduced into the market, hopefully by the time your concert plays in April or May. Wouldn't it be nice that we're both at Lincoln Center around the same time?
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:32.290 MZ: That'd be ironic and fun.
00:53:32.680 --> 00:53:51.950 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly, exactly. Now, I don't know if it will be fully developed, or if it will be fully funded. I do know that the prototype design is already out there, the business plan is being generated. I was just at a conference on Monday showing it as an alternative to the existing HSAs.
00:53:51.950 --> 00:53:57.229 Frank R. Harrison: FSAs, insurance products, of course, government programs, especially those that are being cut.
00:53:57.680 --> 00:54:09.970 Frank R. Harrison: It seems to have appeal, but it is about, like you're saying, organization, and spreading the word, and making everyone aware that healthcare, unfortunately, has become a commodity.
00:54:09.970 --> 00:54:14.299 MZ: It has become just as valuable of an investment as buying your own home.
00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:19.040 Frank R. Harrison: Or even, you know, you have to make a question, do you invest, or do you…
00:54:19.470 --> 00:54:31.139 Frank R. Harrison: do you survive your healthcare crisis? Right. And it has to be a choice? You know, so I'm really hoping, and, you know, I'm not making any official announcements because of the fact that it isn't yet…
00:54:31.310 --> 00:54:48.549 Frank R. Harrison: delivered, or developed, or… you know, I'm hoping 2026 will allow me to do exactly that. But, if anything, I… well, like I said, I want you to come back on the show, especially when your book comes out, or when it starts the pre-sale cycle.
00:54:48.550 --> 00:54:49.080 MZ: Yep.
00:54:50.690 --> 00:55:02.340 Frank R. Harrison: But if anything, I would like to, when it launches, I would like to tell your viewing audience about it. Maybe that'll be the grassroots audience that will help both of us. I mean, if that makes sense, you know?
00:55:02.340 --> 00:55:07.100 MZ: Yeah, everything's on the table. This is about… Unification.
00:55:07.270 --> 00:55:07.890 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:55:08.750 --> 00:55:09.670 Frank R. Harrison: Absolutely.
00:55:09.670 --> 00:55:12.190 MZ: This country has been so bisected.
00:55:12.940 --> 00:55:19.210 MZ: With propaganda, and media, and partisanship, just for the purpose of getting elected in power.
00:55:19.550 --> 00:55:23.549 MZ: This is not the country I want to live in, and I know this is not the country most people want to live in.
00:55:23.740 --> 00:55:24.570 Frank R. Harrison: Correct.
00:55:24.570 --> 00:55:26.640 MZ: And again, the six shall inherit the earth.
00:55:28.490 --> 00:55:34.679 Frank R. Harrison: Mmm, I haven't thought of it that way, but that's exactly where everything is pivoting towards. Yes. That's a good point.
00:55:35.170 --> 00:55:51.390 Frank R. Harrison: Wow, I see we're 3 minutes to ending. I'm just gonna give announcements to everybody. First, as I said, I will have you back on the show in January, if that's a good time frame for you, I don't know how busy you'll be. Good, alright? I know Dr. Todd Otten will be back on the 8th of January, and…
00:55:51.830 --> 00:55:53.289 MZ: No kidding. I'm totally kidding.
00:55:53.290 --> 00:55:56.970 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, okay, I thought I was giving the wrong date, but I don't know.
00:55:56.970 --> 00:55:58.279 MZ: I'm totally kidding, I'm totally kidding.
00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:15.140 Frank R. Harrison: Alright, cool. And, I just want everyone out there, if you remember the show that I did with Dr. Dale Atkins when she talked about her book, The Turquoise Butterfly, she will be on the Today Show on the 5th of January at 9am on NBC, or your affiliated station.
00:56:15.660 --> 00:56:31.210 Frank R. Harrison: My voices of disruption, or my disruptors, as I call them, are making movements happen, and I'm hoping to join the bandwagon while at the same time continuing my support of Frank AboutHealth on talkradio.nyc and wherever it's distributed online.
00:56:31.350 --> 00:56:40.100 Frank R. Harrison: I want everyone to know that if it wasn't for Sam Leibowitz, Emily Shulman, Jessica, the engineer behind the scenes, Samantha Rogers.
00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:59.870 Frank R. Harrison: Frank About Health wouldn't have grown as much as it has, especially in the last 6 months. But, believe it or not, because of our healthcare crisis, I think that has also fueled the show. It has fueled us meeting, as long as all the other people that are involved with that documentary. I am signing up for your movement.
00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:01.840 Frank R. Harrison: We the… we the patients.
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:13.239 Frank R. Harrison: And, I just want everyone out there to continue watching Frank About Health in the new year, as well as to be on the lookout for my documentary.
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:32.540 Frank R. Harrison: Being Frank for a Healthy Future, which is available now on YouTube, but I'm gonna do my best to make it go viral out there on YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, during the next two weeks, because on the 31st of December is the one-year anniversary since we lost our dear friend Retha Gray.
00:57:32.660 --> 00:57:44.249 Frank R. Harrison: And it would be an opportunity to commemorate her life, because she truly was an advocate, too, especially for seniors, people suffering from dementia and cardiac problems.
00:57:44.310 --> 00:58:02.729 Frank R. Harrison: And, I'm just gonna make the next two weeks during our holiday time an advocacy time frame, and I thank you again, Emsi, Matthew, for being here. I look forward to you being here again. I definitely consider you an honorable disruptor for Frank About Health.
00:58:02.780 --> 00:58:19.310 Frank R. Harrison: And again, thank you, TalkRadio.nyc, for everything you've done for me this past year, and I will do my best to give back in the coming year. Alright everyone, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and for all of us, may 2026 be the year that we, the patients, win.
00:58:19.520 --> 00:58:20.200 Frank R. Harrison: Alrighty.
00:58:20.200 --> 00:58:20.950 MZ: Bam.
00:58:20.950 --> 00:58:26.980 Frank R. Harrison: Alrighty, so we're signing off now, thanks for watching, we'll see you all in January.
00:58:27.270 --> 00:58:28.100 Frank R. Harrison: Bye-bye.
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