EPISODE SUMMARY:
The audience will learn what burnout really is and why it’s not your fault. How caregiving impacts your brain, body, relationships, and identity. Signs you’re approaching collapse even if you think you’re “handling it”. Practical strategies to reclaim energy, boundaries, and emotional balance and how to shift from survival mode to sustainability
Caregiver burnout is one of the most widespread yet least talked-about public health emergencies. Whether you're caring for a parent, a partner, a child, or even managing your own chronic stress, this episode gives you tools, validation, and hope. Dr. Todd Otten brings frontline medical experience, real-life insight, and a compassionate roadmap that speaks directly to those who feel overwhelmed, unappreciated, and exhausted.
This episode doesn’t just educate—it validates lived experience. It lets caregivers know they are not invisible, and they are not alone. Anyone navigating stress, responsibility, or emotional overload will walk away with clarity and tools that immediately improve daily life.
Dr. Otten is a board-certified family physician and co-founder of Our Quadruple Aim, a movement that challenges the status quo in healthcare and promotes patient experience, quality care, lower costs, and professional wellness. He has over 20 years of experience in providing quality patient care, leading teams, and managing projects in various settings, including the United States Navy, where he was honored as the naval flight surgeon of the year in 2006 for the Atlantic Fleet.
Website: doctorsonsocialmedia.com/todd-r-otten-md/
LinkedIN: www.linkedin.com/in/todd-r-otten-md-faafp-173028277/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/todd.r.otten/Instagram:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/DIJIvWjI3vJ/
Frank opens this episode by introducing his guest Dr. Todd Otten, a board-certified family physician and expert on caregiving burnout, and asked him to share with us his personal and professional experiences with burnout. Dr. Otten emphasizes its impact on healthcare professionals and caregivers. He defined burnout as emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, and cynicism, often driven by external demands and profit motives in healthcare systems. Frank and Todd explore the environmental triggers and learned patterns contributing to burnout, highlighting the need for awareness and solutions to address this crisis.
Dr. Otten opens the second segment by discussing his personal experience with burnout in healthcare and how it inspired him to write "Ripple of Change," a book that explores the impact of physician burnout on patients, families, and colleagues. He emphasizes the need for collective action to improve the U.S. healthcare system, collaborating with his co-author Joshua Judy, a former patient, to highlight the shared responsibility in addressing healthcare challenges. Frank shares his perspective on the complexities of managing a family member's cancer treatment, highlighting the challenges of effective communication and processing medical information.
The third segment begins with Todd discussing his documentary project aimed at exposing how greed is destroying the US healthcare system, featuring interviews with healthcare leaders, whistleblowers, and Mark Cuban. The documentary, titled "The Doctor's No Longer In," seeks to educate and mobilize the public to address healthcare issues, with Todd expressing optimism about the project's potential impact. Frank shared his support for the project, highlighting its alignment with his mission of amplifying disruptive voices in healthcare, particularly in the current political climate.
Frank and Todd round out the final segment by discussing the challenges and potential solutions in healthcare, emphasizing the need for a shift from divisiveness to collaboration. They highlight the importance of advocacy and shared examples of positive initiatives like Direct Primary Care and organizations like Medicine Forward and the Lorna Brain Foundation. Frank invites Todd to return for another show in January, and they discussed promoting an upcoming documentary and book.
00:00:53.110 --> 00:01:12.719 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, it is December 11th, 2025, and this is a very impactful episode of Frank About Health. I have with me my special guest today, Dr. Todd Otten, MD, who is an expert on caregiving burnout, an expert in multiple ways.
00:01:12.820 --> 00:01:25.899 Frank R. Harrison: First of all, we're going to talk about his journey, having gone through it, as I can identify with circumstances in my life this past year, but simultaneously, we'll talk about a book that he's written called Ripple of Change.
00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:34.749 Frank R. Harrison: As well as a documentary that he is working on right now, full title of which to be disclosed later on in the show, because it has its own dedicated segment.
00:01:34.850 --> 00:01:46.110 Frank R. Harrison: I will issue my disclaimer as usual, but keep in mind, this show is best for those that are dealing with burnout, so I'm going to read directly from quotes that I created.
00:01:46.410 --> 00:01:53.330 Frank R. Harrison: First of all, this episode title is The Caregiver Crisis, Healing Burnout with Dr. Todd Otten.
00:01:53.750 --> 00:02:01.210 Frank R. Harrison: We're gonna discuss in Segment 1 what burnout is, why it's not your fault, and how caregiving reshapes your life.
00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:09.700 Frank R. Harrison: And then simultaneously, as far as Dr. Otten's background is concerned, or Todd, I presume I can call you Todd throughout the show.
00:02:09.889 --> 00:02:27.090 Frank R. Harrison: Here is his background, which is very important to understand that he has a full 360 view of burnout, both personally and professionally. He is a board-certified family physician, co-founder of Our Quadruple Aim, which is an advocacy platform.
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.949 Frank R. Harrison: 20 plus years inpatient care.
00:02:30.150 --> 00:02:34.859 Frank R. Harrison: He is Flight Surgeon of the Year for the Atlantic Fleet in the U.S. Navy.
00:02:35.050 --> 00:02:37.659 Frank R. Harrison: Author of the book, Ripple of Change.
00:02:37.790 --> 00:02:45.840 Frank R. Harrison: and the executive producer of the upcoming documentary, Suck It Up, Buttercup, Truth and betrayal.
00:02:46.790 --> 00:02:50.890 Frank R. Harrison: of the American healthcare system. Please correct me if I'm wrong about the title.
00:02:51.700 --> 00:03:00.529 Todd Otten: You were… you were so close, Frank. It's actually… you're so close. The second of buttercups, the easy part. It's trust and betrayal, healthcare in America.
00:03:00.980 --> 00:03:18.060 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, and of course, everyone knows, anyone who's been watching, Frank About Health for the past four and a half years, I have been advocating for so many healthcare solutions and problems, but I think we're on the cusp, going into 2026, of trying to really
00:03:18.060 --> 00:03:35.719 Frank R. Harrison: overtake a lot of the turbulence that has been created. I know I've been discussing that this is a Voices of Disruption campaign that I am on. I figure Dr. Todd Otten is definitely a voice of disruption, but for the good, which we will explore throughout the episode.
00:03:35.850 --> 00:03:51.430 Frank R. Harrison: Now, that all being said, Todd, I welcome you to Frank About Health, I thank you for being here, and I want you to just take the floor and give me your own self-directed interpretation of burnout on all the perspectives that would resonate with everyone.
00:03:52.150 --> 00:04:02.530 Todd Otten: Well, first off, Frank, thanks for the warm welcome and having me on the show. It's truly a pleasure, and you know, every time I hear these accomplishments, it's almost like…
00:04:02.610 --> 00:04:15.759 Todd Otten: holy smokes, is he talking about me? Did I do all those things in my career? You know, but you think back about… or I think back about my career, and in terms of burnout, I mean, there were several
00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:32.110 Todd Otten: several points where I was probably on that… the edge of burnout, if you will. You know, you think about stress, and really it's the body's reaction to external demands. And we all have stress, right? You know, and I used to tell patients, we… you know, everybody has a bucket that you can throw stress into it.
00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:40.280 Todd Otten: Some people have a little bucket, some people have a thimble. Some people's bucket is massive. But when that bucket starts to overflow.
00:04:40.870 --> 00:04:55.719 Todd Otten: that's really when we're talking about burnout. And, you know, burnout is… I like to often describe it in relation to physicians, because obviously that's, you know, that's my wheelhouse, but emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, you know, that feeling where
00:04:55.900 --> 00:05:02.420 Todd Otten: you're jaded, you're callous. I'm sure many listening to the show have seen a physician who, it's like they're a zombie.
00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:07.060 Todd Otten: Or they're a shell. Or they're a robot. You know, cynicism.
00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:08.810 Todd Otten: You know,
00:05:09.070 --> 00:05:25.709 Todd Otten: speaks for example, lack of empathy, right? And reduced sense of personal accomplishment. And this… this can be extrapolated to far beyond physicians, far beyond nurses, far beyond clinicians, caregivers, firefighters, teachers, etc. You know, the…
00:05:26.020 --> 00:05:37.679 Todd Otten: And interestingly enough, the drivers in our system are often related to profit, and I think this is really creating a lot of these issues where there's more and more demands
00:05:37.870 --> 00:05:54.259 Todd Otten: But we're human beings. You know, we only have so much to offer, right? And when… when we're exceeding those capacities, then we're getting into the realm of burnout, and the negative ramifications are far and wide in terms of repercussions, for sure.
00:05:54.260 --> 00:05:54.890 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:05:55.030 --> 00:05:55.760 Frank R. Harrison: Right
00:05:56.180 --> 00:06:06.959 Frank R. Harrison: No, I mean, overall, I always think of it as stemming from the central nervous system, but it's even more than that. Like you indicated, there are environmental triggers that contribute to it.
00:06:06.960 --> 00:06:19.290 Frank R. Harrison: It's just, your nervous system probably is wired based on past traumas or past patterns that you've become used to, especially if you're continually giving, caregiving support for an ongoing
00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:29.690 Frank R. Harrison: Elder, whether it's a parent, or a sibling, or somebody, but at the same time, when you're having those same burnout responses, when you're not even in the caregiving mood.
00:06:29.690 --> 00:06:38.529 Frank R. Harrison: or mode, rather. There must be a learned condition pattern that somehow gets triggered when you're going through the ongoing stress, correct?
00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:51.319 Todd Otten: Well, I think you make a good point. I mean, we're all… everybody's experienced trauma in some capacity. You know, in my mind, trauma in and of itself is a continuum. I mean, think about, you know, like, social media, or the news. I mean.
00:06:51.510 --> 00:07:00.289 Todd Otten: goodness gracious, there's a lot of things that are traumatic just in that regard. And then you go back, we've got these neural networks that have been developed at some point in our life.
00:07:00.330 --> 00:07:16.330 Todd Otten: from really a self-protective mechanism, whether it's flight, flight, or freeze, and when those are reactivated, it just unleashes these emotions and these reactions and these responses. So burnout is definitely, in my mind.
00:07:16.430 --> 00:07:34.969 Todd Otten: closely woven to, previous trauma responses and those negative neural networks. You know, Bessel van der Cook, in his book, The Body Keeps the Score, is just a brilliant example of how it's all interconnected. You're right, the central nervous system, I mean, it drives everything in our body.
00:07:35.090 --> 00:07:51.490 Todd Otten: we're not little parts where you can just take one piece out and, you know, put in a new carburetor, a new muffler, or whatever, right? It's all interconnected. And we need to start thinking that way, you know, not just in medicine and healthcare, but in terms of the workplace, etc. I mean, the holistic approach is
00:07:52.030 --> 00:07:54.550 Todd Otten: Definitely where we need to be headed, for sure.
00:07:54.940 --> 00:08:07.720 Frank R. Harrison: Right, right. Now, that all being said, is this something we're just waking up to now, or has it always been the case of how we need to be thinking, but it's kind of been hidden based on other people's expectations?
00:08:08.610 --> 00:08:11.900 Todd Otten: Yeah, that's a great question, Frank. I think this is…
00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:24.729 Todd Otten: you know, human beings have been around for obviously a long time, and these things aren't new. It's not like we've had this massive evolutionary change in the last decade, right? It's just that we're starting to understand this a lot better.
00:08:24.770 --> 00:08:39.509 Todd Otten: And we're starting to understand trauma responses, and mental health, and burnout, and all these other things. You know, so they've always been there. You know, you go back to World War I, we talk about shell shock, and these soldiers that were exposed to these horrendous things.
00:08:39.590 --> 00:08:44.200 Todd Otten: And at times, they were just cowering in the corner and couldn't respond.
00:08:44.210 --> 00:09:00.979 Todd Otten: And it was thought as a malady, if you will. Fast forward to World War II, it got a little bit better. We started to get into Vietnam and beyond, and our understanding of PTSD and all that stuff got better. But even, you know, the appreciation of mental health and its importance in someone's overall well-being.
00:09:01.010 --> 00:09:03.970 Todd Otten: Is really, in my opinion, probably the last quarter century.
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:19.709 Todd Otten: you know, even when I was in medical school, Frank, which… I've got some gray hairs on my chin, right? So, you know, coming up on a quarter century since I graduated from medical school, but my training in regards to trauma was really more of the physical trauma type stuff.
00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:29.400 Todd Otten: gunshot wounds, you know, victims of a car accident, motor vehicle accident, whatever. The psychological traumatic stuff, I mean, we…
00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:33.120 Todd Otten: it was, like, this much we covered. And so.
00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:47.170 Todd Otten: it just wasn't taught, because we didn't understand it. You know, it really wasn't until… I shouldn't say this, but the ACES study, Adverse Childhood Events, in the late 90s, really shed a lot of light on
00:09:47.290 --> 00:09:57.639 Todd Otten: how trauma impacts our overall well-being. And I don't mean to digress and just totally talk about trauma, but it is totally intertwined with burnout. Oh, absolutely. You know, I think about…
00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:02.529 Todd Otten: I think about the intergenerational trauma that occurs in medical school.
00:10:02.670 --> 00:10:05.400 Todd Otten: you know, some of the ways we're trained. I mean, it's…
00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:11.749 Todd Otten: Frankly… well, I didn't mean to say frankly, I suppose. But I guess…
00:10:11.750 --> 00:10:13.850 Frank R. Harrison: But I'm frank about health, that's what we expect.
00:10:13.850 --> 00:10:14.419 Todd Otten: There we go.
00:10:15.030 --> 00:10:22.499 Todd Otten: I mean, it's sadistic at times, the things that I, you know, encountered when I was being taught, and why are we doing that, you know?
00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:23.850 Frank R. Harrison: Yeah.
00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:34.160 Frank R. Harrison: Yeah, I mean, it's very interesting, because when I was in high school in particular, I was, I was a math science major, but one of my electives was in
00:10:34.160 --> 00:10:52.719 Frank R. Harrison: biomedical sciences, and I was learning about the autonomic nervous system. And so, I know that going back into Biology 101, there was the difference between the parasympathetic system and the sympathetic system, and it sounds like a play on the word sympathy. You know, like, when people get a hug, they feel relief.
00:10:52.730 --> 00:11:08.779 Frank R. Harrison: I think that there is a metaphor behind that, but it's the understanding, really, of how the stress hormones go through the spinal cord, as well as through the brain, and just trigger the responses of whether you're going through burnout or relaxation, or having the right
00:11:08.780 --> 00:11:17.259 Frank R. Harrison: amount of balance when you're dealing with whether it's a difficult situation, or a traumatic situation, or even a very simple one. Now.
00:11:17.670 --> 00:11:28.010 Frank R. Harrison: people probably learn about it very simplistically, and as such, don't see the connection when they are watching others go through the symptoms of burnout and PTSD and other stuff, but
00:11:28.010 --> 00:11:46.450 Frank R. Harrison: lately, I don't know if it's because of the COVID pandemic, or if it's because of other chaos that has been happening in our country, especially this past year, that people are just now honing in on the real roots of it, so that they can really get a grasp of it, or have their own say versus whatever the system is saying.
00:11:46.450 --> 00:11:50.959 Frank R. Harrison: Is that a fair assessment, or is that something that I'm just grasping at?
00:11:52.060 --> 00:12:11.150 Todd Otten: No, I think you're right. I mean, and I'll stay in my lane a little bit when we talk about healthcare. I mean, I think historically, at least from my perspective, we were taught to work harder, do more, put the patient first, and all these other things, and at times, to the detriment of your own well-being. Right. And I think people are finally like, well, wait a minute.
00:12:11.390 --> 00:12:13.229 Frank R. Harrison: you know, if I'm burned out.
00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:18.889 Todd Otten: how in the heck am I giving my best to Frank? Or a family member, right? You're not.
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:32.659 Todd Otten: You're totally not, and so… and people are… I think people are starting to wake up to that. They're starting to feel a little bit more empowered. They're starting to push back against some of the issues going on systemically within the healthcare space.
00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.779 Todd Otten: But we need, we need an exponential increase.
00:12:37.050 --> 00:12:41.490 Todd Otten: And that pushback, because as it stands,
00:12:41.650 --> 00:12:46.579 Todd Otten: You know, people are getting hurt in our healthcare system, the way it's going. Like, big time.
00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:47.650 Frank R. Harrison: Yes.
00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:58.289 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, and I would say one of the fundamental flaws that is going on is lack of communication, or whether it's misinformation, which in itself is not effective communication.
00:12:58.540 --> 00:13:09.179 Frank R. Harrison: Well, I've got even more questions, but we're about to take our first break. Ladies and gentlemen, I just want everyone to know that when we come back, we're gonna talk about the book.
00:13:09.450 --> 00:13:28.790 Frank R. Harrison: Ripple of Change, and I gather we're gonna be able, through the book, understand a lot more of what Todd has been talking about in terms of burnout in our society today. We're going into 2026, and from what I'm hearing, it's gonna be even more stressful unless we get our bearings together now.
00:13:28.790 --> 00:13:47.859 Frank R. Harrison: And that's why I'm looking at this particular episode of Frank About Health as a call to action for all of us to really do what we can with our own internal resources, our own cognitive understanding of whatever resources are out there for healthcare information, healthcare payment programs.
00:13:47.860 --> 00:13:58.340 Frank R. Harrison: healthcare solutions, whether it's alternative treatments and so forth and so on, but I think that starting with the book Ripple of Change in Segment 2, we will have a roadmap
00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:11.580 Frank R. Harrison: to start following together. So please stay tuned right here on talkradio.nyc, and on our social media channels, YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitch. And if you have any questions for us, we are live. Please
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:19.280 Frank R. Harrison: put it in the chat box, and our engineer, Jesse, will read out the question out loud, and we'll do our best to answer them for you. Okay, we'll be back in a few.
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00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.600 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, and welcome back. By the way, I just want everyone to listen to a quote.
00:16:05.760 --> 00:16:09.600 Frank R. Harrison: That, I think is important for everyone who might be going through burnout.
00:16:09.810 --> 00:16:12.849 Frank R. Harrison: Burnout is not a personal failure.
00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:22.380 Frank R. Harrison: It's the predictable outcome of unrealistic, unsupported responsibility. And I do believe it's a two-way street. You get triggered.
00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:37.429 Frank R. Harrison: And at the same time, it's how you respond. So, what's up here needs to be the mediator in how you're able to respond with focus, energy, and at least a balance, because no one is ever purely
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:50.470 Frank R. Harrison: free from burnout, but they can learn to contain it somehow. And I guess maybe that's the segue, Todd, to talk about your book, Ripple of Change. Did you discover when you wrote it that you were finding a balance in how to deal with it?
00:16:51.710 --> 00:17:05.100 Todd Otten: Well, interestingly enough, Ripple of Change was… it really started as probably a good part of my healing process. You know, I was, oh geez, a little over 15 years out of medical school when
00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:16.019 Todd Otten: I was doing too much, Frank. I was seeing, like, 6,000 visits a year, I was chief of staff, I was the director of an accountable care organization, like, doing everything under the sun.
00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:26.930 Todd Otten: You know, it's because the physicians, you're just taught, do more, do more, work harder, put your head down, stuff it into a box, compartmentalize, all these other things. Well, that's all well and good till it's not, and when it's not.
00:17:27.050 --> 00:17:45.519 Todd Otten: it can become an absolute mess. You know, in hindsight, looking back through my journey to burnout, it was obvious. I mean, the things I alluded to earlier were… I was exhausted, my compassion was low, you know, I was going to work like a zombie at times.
00:17:45.580 --> 00:17:51.799 Todd Otten: But it really hit the fan when I had some pay withheld, because I had two charts that weren't done.
00:17:51.910 --> 00:17:56.370 Todd Otten: Which, that is just ridiculous in and of itself that that even occurred.
00:17:56.490 --> 00:18:10.010 Todd Otten: But, you know, the angry, frustrated little guy was like, you lit him on fire, at that point. And I'm joking, obviously, a little bit, but I… I remember Frank sitting in the backyard.
00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:13.609 Todd Otten: In tears, man. Hating the job.
00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.369 Todd Otten: that I had loved for so long.
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:33.659 Todd Otten: you know, taking care of other human beings is such a joy in its purest form. It's a euphoria that is almost hard to describe at times. But when you've got all these external pressures, and they're just never-ending, and it doesn't stop, and you're down that continuum of stress into burnout.
00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:37.340 Todd Otten: It becomes a disaster, and that was really…
00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:41.250 Todd Otten: I was ready to quit, and so I got some time off.
00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:46.739 Todd Otten: I came back, and that's when it… it took about 2 years for me to really, truly
00:18:46.760 --> 00:18:55.509 Todd Otten: recover from that, and I think there's still vestiges of that time period that I struggle with at times. But Ripple of Change initially
00:18:55.510 --> 00:19:09.219 Todd Otten: began as another part of my healing. I wrote a poem called Medicine is a World of Gray, which is kind of a dark look at primary care and the realities of it. But then I wrote a chapter called Anatomy of Burnout.
00:19:09.870 --> 00:19:10.950 Todd Otten: And…
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:18.199 Todd Otten: you know, of course I'm biased, I'm the author of the book, but it's one of my favorite chapters because it really looks at
00:19:18.490 --> 00:19:21.369 Todd Otten: You know, when a physician is going through burnout.
00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:26.590 Todd Otten: How does that impact not just that individual, But they're family.
00:19:26.780 --> 00:19:34.399 Todd Otten: They're friends, their colleagues, least of which, patients. You know, when I was going through that, Frank, I… the negative impact
00:19:34.940 --> 00:19:38.559 Todd Otten: would impact… hit thousands of people.
00:19:38.870 --> 00:19:45.629 Todd Otten: If you think about it, thousands of people. I mean, I was caring for thousands of people at that time, and I was far from my best.
00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:53.920 Todd Otten: The book really took on an amazing evolution, when my co-author Joshua Judy got involved.
00:19:53.970 --> 00:20:08.129 Todd Otten: He was a former patient of mine, and so we… my journey through burnout, his journey through the mess that I created for him, with a prescription I wrote for him, but really with the theme that we all can play our part.
00:20:08.190 --> 00:20:10.949 Todd Otten: To fix the healthcare…
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:26.150 Todd Otten: Oh, I'll call it what it is, shitshow that exists in the United States today. I mean, if we all do a little bit, we all play a role, it can and will get better, and, you know, I believe it, I think we need… I think we need everyone to believe that.
00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:46.229 Frank R. Harrison: You know, you bring up a very good point, because I always look at the where it begins and ends modality, and I would say, from a local perspective, meaning here in this house, where I have a father who is recovering from prostate cancer, and has been through every, you know.
00:20:46.230 --> 00:20:58.480 Frank R. Harrison: leap and valley of, is this the… are we near the end? Is there a cure? Are we gonna be able to stabilize? So forth and so on. And we get the information, I process it.
00:20:58.590 --> 00:21:12.929 Frank R. Harrison: But then I notice, all of a sudden, it's an alternate universe. People are not really processing it, there's a mixture of denial, there's a mixture of confusion, maybe even in some cases, the grammar isn't effective. I've been using a lot of
00:21:12.930 --> 00:21:29.510 Frank R. Harrison: AI to help translate, which helps, but it's not the be-all, end-all. It's not a human being. So, then comes, where does the middle ground go through? Now, the middle ground is the community of people you have around you that are able to discuss and contribute their pieces of the puzzle.
00:21:29.510 --> 00:21:34.550 Frank R. Harrison: To make sure the whole narrative is consistent with reality, versus whatever
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:49.909 Frank R. Harrison: faulty perceptions can be generated by misinformation or possibly even just natural trigger or fear responses, right? But when you have that one layer, and then we see what has happened in our country the past year.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:22:05.020 Frank R. Harrison: with the collapse of the Big Beautiful Bill, with the government shutdown, with a lot of other things that… there is a disclaimer here, this is not a political show, but I'm trying to say, you use the word shitshow, I know that word is not censorable, so I'm able to use it.
00:22:05.190 --> 00:22:17.919 Frank R. Harrison: I have a feeling that that has been manifested to really burn all of us out, and not deal with the realities that we're still trying to cope with. But that's just a feeling.
00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:35.010 Frank R. Harrison: What would you have to say is your perception of what really is going on on a national level versus a local level? Because it really begins locally, but we don't need people overshadowing the narrative to make things even more confusing. So, what would be your take on that?
00:22:35.350 --> 00:22:44.209 Todd Otten: Yeah, I mean, I think, again, I'll default back to, you know, the world I live in, which is the healthcare space and medicine, right? I think, you know, we have all these…
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.409 Todd Otten: Well, I'll just call it is what it is what it is. You know, greed is…
00:22:49.600 --> 00:23:01.490 Todd Otten: wreaking havoc in healthcare. Big time. You know, we've got these legacy institutions out there that are happy with how things are going, because they're making a lot of money.
00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:16.340 Todd Otten: And that's at, you know, that's the upper level that's really benefiting from it, but it's not the majority. It is a small chunk of the pie, if you will. And the decisions that are made at these, you know, 30,000 foot levels, or higher, if you will.
00:23:16.510 --> 00:23:19.939 Todd Otten: Trickle down and affect all of us at the community level.
00:23:20.120 --> 00:23:30.310 Todd Otten: And so, just, I'll give you one example, you know, like, perhaps prior authorizations. For those not familiar, prior authorizations in healthcare is…
00:23:30.930 --> 00:23:43.220 Todd Otten: you know, the idea behind it is supposed to weed out fraud and waste and abuse, but it is being completely misused to increase the profits of insurance companies, frankly. And…
00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:55.629 Todd Otten: you know, as a physician, when I've got to prove that my medical decision-making is in a patient's best interest to somebody who has never seen the patient, never looked at their chart, it creates this
00:23:55.690 --> 00:24:09.509 Todd Otten: nightmare of effects that occur for not only the clinician, but more importantly, the patient, in terms of delays and lack of access and all these other things. So that's these decisions being made at the highest levels that trickle down to the community level.
00:24:09.590 --> 00:24:14.209 Todd Otten: to the individual level. I mean, how do you explain to somebody
00:24:15.080 --> 00:24:17.529 Todd Otten: Who's got a malignancy of some sort?
00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:22.429 Todd Otten: That somebody who's never seen them, Never looked at their chart.
00:24:22.830 --> 00:24:25.690 Todd Otten: Is dictating what type of treatment they're gonna get.
00:24:26.090 --> 00:24:26.650 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly.
00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:29.990 Todd Otten: Yeah, and it's all for money. It's all about money.
00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:35.110 Todd Otten: And it's… it's, you know, it's just sick, Frank, some of the things that I've seen and heard.
00:24:35.290 --> 00:24:53.589 Frank R. Harrison: I completely hear you. This is leaps and bounds with everything I've been seeing every day. I try to stay away from the media as much as possible, because it likes to make it much exponentially stronger than it really is, but it's kind of hard to do, especially when I'm dealing day-to-day with a case like my father's. But yet.
00:24:53.590 --> 00:24:58.010 Frank R. Harrison: I am then questioning, maybe from my own psychology basis here.
00:24:58.010 --> 00:25:10.630 Frank R. Harrison: that we've been starting the show on the topic of burnout, but is the quote-unquote shitshow that is being presented to us meant to burn us out even more? I know the greed component is there, that's clear.
00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:28.940 Frank R. Harrison: But the loss of humanity is definitely gone. I see that. And it makes us have to go from within in order to maintain that, which actually is the best thing, is to start from yourself before you give out. But that chasm that gets formed, that bridge needs to be built.
00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:39.020 Frank R. Harrison: And I believe, from the community on up. The only thing that I'm trying to understand, though, is that aside from typical greed, if that's the way to put it.
00:25:39.230 --> 00:25:51.449 Frank R. Harrison: what is the hidden motive to just disconnect from humanity? Or disconnect from… or maybe it's narcissism. I mean, I'm just coming up with key words, but I don't know what the true narrative is.
00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:56.970 Todd Otten: Well, I think there's a lot of things that contribute to it, Frank, but, you know, as I've dug into these things.
00:25:57.090 --> 00:26:08.650 Todd Otten: I mean, it all… it just comes back… a lot of this comes back to greed, or power, or, you know, whatever's in the self-serving interest of the few, as opposed to the… to the many.
00:26:08.650 --> 00:26:21.250 Todd Otten: If you will. And it's incredibly frustrating. For those of us that went into a profession to devote our lives to helping other human beings, to have these external forces negatively impacting that.
00:26:21.300 --> 00:26:24.859 Todd Otten: And our ability to provide care, you know.
00:26:24.970 --> 00:26:30.339 Todd Otten: You can only be frustrated and Feel defeated so many times.
00:26:30.340 --> 00:26:31.140 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:33.949 Todd Otten: Before you kind of give up.
00:26:34.070 --> 00:26:42.300 Todd Otten: And we've got this notion of learned helplessness that's out there that is… it's just pervasive. People are like.
00:26:42.490 --> 00:26:50.709 Todd Otten: well, I'm just gonna go to work and get a paycheck, you know, I'm gonna put my blinders on, put my head down, do the best I can, cry in the car on the way home.
00:26:50.800 --> 00:27:06.189 Todd Otten: and cope in other ways. I mean, this… this prank, this… I hear this all the time, you know, from my colleagues. And it's really sad, because it's such a… it's such a beautiful profession otherwise. And I think… I guess what I'm building up to is.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.350 Todd Otten: I think the collective Has the ability to push back.
00:27:10.690 --> 00:27:17.749 Todd Otten: And that is… yeah, I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but that's really what we're trying to accomplish with the documentary.
00:27:18.150 --> 00:27:29.759 Frank R. Harrison: And I can't wait to discuss that in the next segment, because I only saw the trailer, but already I was looking for where can I find it, and I realized you're still in post-production, I gather, correct?
00:27:30.100 --> 00:27:49.640 Todd Otten: Correct. We are… well, we're right on the verge of post-production. We're real close to film lock. We're, like, we're, like, this close. In fact, we're discussing, like, the dates film lock's gonna occur and all these other things, but it's exciting. I'll go back to, you know, you brought one thing up earlier, maybe I'll touch on it just real brief, before we get to the break, was the concept of silos.
00:27:49.870 --> 00:28:01.700 Todd Otten: you know, silos are problematic not just in healthcare delivery, and I'm not talking about, you know, a missile silo or, you know, a silo on a farm, but it creates the terrible, right?
00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:19.180 Todd Otten: Yeah, but it's super problematic in healthcare delivery. Like, you go to see one physician, and then you follow up with your primary, and they don't even have access to your information. That's just a microcosm of a silo, if you will. But there's also silos in people trying to move the needle forward.
00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:22.499 Todd Otten: And that's a big part of what we're trying to unwind.
00:28:22.780 --> 00:28:36.929 Frank R. Harrison: Well, I just think, and definitely to wrap up what you just said, or echo what you just said prior to the break, I was happy when I heard that mRNA vaccines were being created to cure cancer and AIDS,
00:28:36.930 --> 00:28:46.530 Frank R. Harrison: And, I think diabetes as well. And now they've been defunded. I mean, it's like, there's definitely a… I don't know if it's conscious or just…
00:28:47.740 --> 00:28:53.170 Frank R. Harrison: whatever it is, there's a break in the system. I think done on purpose, but…
00:28:53.450 --> 00:29:09.779 Frank R. Harrison: when we come back from the next break, we're gonna really tap into your documentary, because I truly believe it is our inner community that we have to populate in 2026, and really push back on what has been happening. So everyone, please stay tuned right here on Frank About Health.
00:29:09.780 --> 00:29:21.480 Frank R. Harrison: as we are talking about caregiving burnout, but more importantly, how we're going to create that ripple of change for a better healthcare system for all of us in the new year. We'll be back in a few.
00:29:24.410 --> 00:29:48.520 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Misalignment within your sales team or with a client stalls deals and creates unnecessary friction for you and the client, resulting in up to 37% lower win rate. If you're in pre-sales sales, sales management, or sales enablement, and you'd like to increase revenues, win rate, margins, client satisfaction, and stay competitive, this show is for you. Hi, I'm Art Fromm, host of the Making Seamless Sales show.
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00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:05.470 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, and welcome back.
00:31:05.780 --> 00:31:14.639 Frank R. Harrison: As you all saw during the commercial break, this book is available on Amazon.com. I'm sure it's available in other places where you can get books online, but
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:31.590 Frank R. Harrison: you can see on Prime, if you are a Prime member, you can get it by tomorrow, and start reading it as fast as you can. So, that is a book that I have had a chance to preview, but I really want to discuss in this section your documentary, and I'm going to title it correctly. Suck It Up, Buttercup.
00:31:32.020 --> 00:31:36.339 Frank R. Harrison: Oh, wow, come on, you faded on me while in the middle of my sentence.
00:31:37.450 --> 00:31:41.719 Frank R. Harrison: Suck it up, buttercup, trust and betrayal, healthcare in America.
00:31:42.060 --> 00:31:54.719 Frank R. Harrison: Tell me all about that. I mean, I want the audience to know what I've already seen in terms of who's in it, in terms of what you discuss, in terms of what kind of impact you hope to make with this documentary.
00:31:55.800 --> 00:32:02.839 Todd Otten: Yeah, well, Frank, I'm not gonna lie, we are so excited about the evolution of this project. You know.
00:32:03.230 --> 00:32:16.999 Todd Otten: I gotta give credit where credit's due. The original idea was a colleague of mine, Dr. Marianne Wilbur, who's a G1 oncologist, who essentially stepped away from full-time practice in her mid-40s because of systemic abuses.
00:32:17.110 --> 00:32:22.980 Todd Otten: And she wrote a book called The Doctor's No Longer In, but she had a dream to make a documentary for the American public.
00:32:23.340 --> 00:32:25.609 Todd Otten: About, really, what's going on.
00:32:25.750 --> 00:32:32.589 Todd Otten: And the goal of the project is really to pull the curtain back for the American public how greed
00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:36.789 Todd Otten: Has, or is destroying our healthcare delivery system.
00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:38.590 Todd Otten: But…
00:32:38.930 --> 00:32:49.759 Todd Otten: it's not just an airing of grievances. There are some very unique, evergreen calls to action to really try and educate.
00:32:50.110 --> 00:32:58.169 Todd Otten: activate, mobilize, You know, the 300 million people in this country who are fed up with what's going on.
00:32:58.210 --> 00:33:07.849 Todd Otten: Because you get that many people involved, even if it's just a fraction of those individuals, we can really move the needle and go much further upstream to tackle some of these issues. But…
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:27.530 Todd Otten: you know, I've been blessed… we've been blessed with the cast of characters, that we've been able to interview for this. I mean, I've gotten to meet… I can't even tell you how many heroes of mine in the thought leadership space in healthcare to change things. Don Berwick, who's the head of CMS in the Obama administration.
00:33:27.600 --> 00:33:35.640 Todd Otten: Tina Shaw has become a friend of mine. She's running for Congress in New Jersey. Wendell Potter was a whistleblower on…
00:33:35.780 --> 00:33:47.199 Todd Otten: the insurance industry, Linda Pino is a whistleblower and highlighted in Michael Moore's sicko, least of which we interviewed Mark Cuban. I think most people know who Mark Cuban is, and he's obviously.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:48.000 Frank R. Harrison: tank.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.630 Todd Otten: Yeah. Well, but Frank, you know what, he's actually… You know, his.
00:33:52.630 --> 00:33:56.360 Frank R. Harrison: I know, he left because of his thing with Amazon, his drug company.
00:33:57.010 --> 00:34:07.240 Todd Otten: Well, yeah, I don't know all the dynamics to that, but his pharmacy benefit manager company has been incredibly disruptive in a very positive way for the American public in terms of lowering costs.
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.960 Frank R. Harrison: You know, Cost Plus Drugs is essentially…
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:18.470 Todd Otten: tackling that industry head-on, and I know Mark wants to take it beyond that. And so, you know, the project
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:28.260 Todd Otten: Is this amazing amalgamation of physician voices, nursing voices, patient voices.
00:34:28.310 --> 00:34:32.550 Frank R. Harrison: Right. Former insurance executive voices, celebrity voices.
00:34:32.790 --> 00:34:39.790 Todd Otten: talking about the existing issues, and then pointing ways forward. So, you probably can tell I'm just…
00:34:39.929 --> 00:34:42.950 Todd Otten: Over the moon about, you know, the evolution of this.
00:34:43.530 --> 00:35:03.500 Frank R. Harrison: And from our earlier discussion, you can understand why I am, too. I mean, I've been doing Frank About Health for four and a half years now, with a bigger mission in mind, which is to take all of the disruptive voices out there and create that community to be able to help everyone that's now being overlooked by our administration.
00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:12.070 Frank R. Harrison: Especially… without healthcare, you really don't have a life of any sort that we can all aspire to in the American dream. You have to have your foundation
00:35:12.170 --> 00:35:16.709 Frank R. Harrison: Secure before you can build whatever your destination is in the future.
00:35:16.850 --> 00:35:20.250 Frank R. Harrison: You know, I think that's the entrepreneurial mindset of Mark Cuban.
00:35:20.250 --> 00:35:30.359 Todd Otten: Well, and to double-click on that, you know, that last statement, I mean, we spend over $4 trillion on healthcare, rapidly approaching $5 trillion.
00:35:30.660 --> 00:35:40.290 Todd Otten: Our life expectancy is successfully… that curve has successfully been bent downwards, and from a developed nation perspective, in terms of outcomes.
00:35:41.140 --> 00:35:47.369 Todd Otten: We're not good. We're not even close to good. We're not even in the top 25.
00:35:47.390 --> 00:35:49.460 Frank R. Harrison: No, I think it won't 169.
00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:54.790 Todd Otten: It's, we're just, you know, see, think about this, we spend a ridiculous amount of money, and our outcomes, frankly.
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.530 Todd Otten: suck for a lot of different reasons.
00:35:59.080 --> 00:36:04.749 Todd Otten: And so we need to do better, and to do that, we need a lot of people.
00:36:04.970 --> 00:36:21.659 Todd Otten: You know, we need… we need not just clinicians speaking up, but we need patients, and we need to be joining forces. You know, interestingly, I alluded to the evergreen calls to action in the film, Frank. One we touched on a little bit earlier, which is unlearning learned helplessness.
00:36:21.750 --> 00:36:30.249 Todd Otten: So, learned helplessness goes back to that study in the 1960s where they put these poor dogs in a cage and shocked them repetitively to the point where they
00:36:30.460 --> 00:36:31.980 Todd Otten: Just kind of gave up.
00:36:32.180 --> 00:36:38.089 Todd Otten: And then even when they opened the door and the dogs could get out as they were shocking them, they just laid there.
00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:39.170 Todd Otten: Because they didn't know…
00:36:39.170 --> 00:36:40.220 Frank R. Harrison: conditioning.
00:36:40.450 --> 00:36:47.599 Todd Otten: Totally, and it's happening in healthcare big time. And not only to clinicians, but also to patients.
00:36:47.780 --> 00:36:55.569 Todd Otten: You know, if you think about it, that the landscape is so difficult to navigate. People who are needing care, after a while, are just like.
00:36:56.080 --> 00:36:57.439 Todd Otten: I don't know what to do.
00:36:57.600 --> 00:37:04.640 Todd Otten: I give up, you know, and they don't get what they need, and it leads to bad outcomes, or worse, unfortunately.
00:37:05.020 --> 00:37:11.550 Todd Otten: The second part speaks to your, you know, what you were talking about earlier in terms of community and collaboration.
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:14.589 Frank R. Harrison: Yeah. And I don't want to spill the beans completely.
00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:15.750 Frank R. Harrison: day.
00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:19.590 Todd Otten: But ultimately, we're really wanting to accelerate an impact network.
00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:24.830 Todd Otten: One that values people, over profits.
00:37:25.020 --> 00:37:35.830 Todd Otten: And by doing that, you bring all these amazing, different voices together to work on solutions in a dynamic, agile way. So, yeah, we're thrilled with where this is going.
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:42.440 Frank R. Harrison: There is a person that has been on my show that I think is in your area. I don't know if you know Dr. Marshall Rungi?
00:37:42.990 --> 00:37:44.490 Todd Otten: I can't say that I do, no.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:53.839 Frank R. Harrison: He is this… he was, because he just retired, the CEO of Michigan Medicine, and he wrote that book, as I just titled, The Great American
00:37:54.370 --> 00:37:56.789 Frank R. Harrison: Wait, Great American Healthcare Disruption?
00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:01.480 Frank R. Harrison: Well, either way, I had an entire 4-week episode dedicated to promoting his book.
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:10.529 Frank R. Harrison: And he told me that because the QR code setup I had on my screen, there was a spike on Amazon of a lot of viewers. I don't know if they actually converted to purchase.
00:38:10.530 --> 00:38:22.279 Frank R. Harrison: But he definitely got back to me, I think just a couple months ago, and said that Frank About Health did give him an impact. He invited me to his Forbes review event that we had back in July, I believe.
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:33.010 Frank R. Harrison: And, I think now he's doing the publicity book tour circuit around multiple universities in the nation. But he was creating the narrative of disruption
00:38:33.340 --> 00:38:52.230 Frank R. Harrison: You, with this documentary, are creating a potential narrative of a solution. And that's why I find it like a bookend. And I hope you have a chance to reach out to him somehow. I know he's now a faculty member at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, in the medical school.
00:38:52.400 --> 00:39:00.930 Frank R. Harrison: But I… I don't know if he has those official roles anymore, or if they're interim roles at this point while he's waiting for his successor to take over.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:06.050 Frank R. Harrison: But he is a big advocate of creating whatever changes
00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:22.069 Frank R. Harrison: can help the proper disruptions to occur using robotics technology on surgeries, having the mRNA vaccine, using AI to find cures. You know, those are the disruptions we should be focused on, not the other ones that have been contributing to burnout.
00:39:22.820 --> 00:39:39.329 Todd Otten: Agreed, and I think, you know, one of the issues that often occurs is there's these arguments back and forth, and we've got to learn how to come together on things. It's okay to disagree, but if it's to the detriment of moving forward in a positive fashion, that's incredibly problematic.
00:39:39.910 --> 00:39:46.160 Todd Otten: You had, as you were talking about Marshall and his book, I was going to digress a little bit. One of the coolest parts of
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.050 Todd Otten: Writing a book has been trading books with people.
00:39:49.210 --> 00:39:53.310 Todd Otten: Like, trading signed books with my colleagues and other individuals, and it's…
00:39:53.690 --> 00:40:13.300 Todd Otten: frankly, it's led to some amazing friendships, just by swapping signed books. But people often ask, like, Todd, so you're not seeing patients full-time, all that, although that's going to change going into 2026, and so on and so forth, but they're like, so what do you do? And I was like, well, mainly I cause trouble.
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:19.480 Todd Otten: But in a good way, like, we, you know… Exactly. We need good trouble, right?
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:20.090 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly.
00:40:20.090 --> 00:40:22.720 Todd Otten: We're not okay with the status quo.
00:40:22.850 --> 00:40:28.559 Todd Otten: And willing to push back, and willing to speak up, and we need… we need a…
00:40:28.740 --> 00:40:31.800 Todd Otten: An exponential increase in those voices, for sure.
00:40:32.680 --> 00:40:47.290 Frank R. Harrison: Absolutely. I mean, if anything, when I had him, Marshall, on the show, it triggered me to be more advocacy-focused than I already have been. I mean, I was coming from a place of.
00:40:47.290 --> 00:40:55.709 Frank R. Harrison: focusing on particular illnesses and particular situations, all that I could identify with based on my understanding of mental health issues, but…
00:40:55.940 --> 00:41:03.899 Frank R. Harrison: when I was witnessing my premium's going up, doubling on Medicare, or
00:41:04.110 --> 00:41:12.680 Frank R. Harrison: I had a nutrition benefit. I was preventing diabetes. Pre-diabetic, I was at the time. Thankfully, that is over. But…
00:41:13.010 --> 00:41:16.210 Frank R. Harrison: the nutrition benefit was canceled, I now have to pay out of pocket.
00:41:16.470 --> 00:41:28.620 Frank R. Harrison: I was getting my epilepsy medications from Canada through mail order, but with the tariffs and the VAT tax inflation, I'm now getting generic branded drugs with my insurance cheaper.
00:41:28.940 --> 00:41:32.079 Frank R. Harrison: Here, and it… some of the formula is gone.
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:49.060 Frank R. Harrison: But, you know, it's like, I have to make my compromises mainly because of my budget, not because of my healthcare. So, when I saw the personal, as well as what I've been witnessing with other people having even worse problems, I said, that's it, I'm making it my mission
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:56.110 Frank R. Harrison: to advocate for a community-based solution, which I'm gonna focus more on 2026.
00:41:56.550 --> 00:42:08.879 Todd Otten: Well, I think I love community-based solutions. I think that's going to be a big part of how we move this forward. You know, when you're talking about advocacy, it had me thinking about, like, you know, how does the average person contribute, right?
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:16.619 Todd Otten: like, not everybody's gonna write a book, not everybody's gonna create a documentary. I mean, those are kind of at one end of the spectrum of trying to drive change.
00:42:16.770 --> 00:42:19.710 Todd Otten: But I often talk about time, talent, and treasure.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.389 Todd Otten: In terms of ways to contribute.
00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:32.209 Todd Otten: You know, even just talking about the issues with others, and perhaps sparking interest, is a way to be an advocate, right?
00:42:32.450 --> 00:42:49.840 Todd Otten: you know, so talent, you know, book, and all these other things, but even, you know, to the third component, treasure, maybe it's… maybe your way to contribute is you skip your morning latte, and you support an organization that you think is moving things in the right direction. All these little touchpoints, when you start adding them up.
00:42:50.170 --> 00:42:57.730 Todd Otten: You know, maybe together we can, quote-unquote, boil the ocean when it comes to dysfunction in healthcare, right?
00:42:57.730 --> 00:42:58.780 Frank R. Harrison: Right.
00:42:58.780 --> 00:43:15.690 Todd Otten: I mean, you know, if we have 300 million people taking a little cup and heating it up, we might move the temperature a little bit, right? Well, you know, that metaphor of boiling the ocean sounds like climate change, but that's the type of climate change we can afford to make. Oh, that's funny.
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:38.889 Frank R. Harrison: But either way, I think, you know, we're about to take our final break, but we will talk mainly about advocacy, a lot of what you've been doing, probably share a little bit about what I've been doing. I have a feeling we need to collaborate even more beyond this show, but if anything, I just realized that from what you've just said, and I really believe in the potential of this documentary you're about to release.
00:43:39.100 --> 00:43:51.309 Frank R. Harrison: That when we are all put to the pressure based on what's going on in our… in our system of government, or whatever the other social issues are.
00:43:51.600 --> 00:44:07.579 Frank R. Harrison: All of us want the same thing, we just don't realize it when everything is considered normal, or when everything is copacetic. But we all want to be healthy and secure within each other, and we just… when we are in a dysfunctional system.
00:44:08.020 --> 00:44:22.219 Frank R. Harrison: that need grows bigger. That is what you hook into to build that community. That's exactly what happened during COVID, when we were all trying to save our lives. That's when everybody was banding together. We just don't want to get into another pandemic to do that again.
00:44:22.220 --> 00:44:38.120 Frank R. Harrison: But, ironically, this is a pandemic, but of a different sort, and we just have to get our own agency together and take charge going forward. Alright, I did my little soapbox mantra right now, so everybody, just stay tuned, and we'll be back in a few.
00:44:39.030 --> 00:44:54.389 www.TalkRadio.nyc: On Frank About Health, we're not just talking healthcare. We're managing disruption and innovation. Over the last 4 years, I've taken you from epilepsy and COVID to mental health, caregiving, and now the front lines of healthcare transformation.
00:44:54.390 --> 00:45:07.870 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Stay tuned for a healthier future as we bring on the innovators, professionals, storytellers, and advocates who show you how to own your healthcare every Thursday at 5 p.m. Eastern Time on talkradio.nyc.
00:45:10.740 --> 00:45:18.030 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you a purpose-driven individual looking for deeper healing, clarity, and growth?
00:45:18.580 --> 00:45:37.940 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Welcome to the Expansion Room, a transformative space for purpose-driven individuals. I'm Siobhan Larisse, host, licensed therapist, and coach. Join me every Wednesday at 5 p.m. Eastern Time on TalkRadio.nyc.
00:45:38.970 --> 00:45:48.109 www.TalkRadio.nyc: You're listening to Talk Radio NYC at www.talkradio.nyc. Now broadcasting 24 hours a day.
00:46:09.380 --> 00:46:15.140 Frank R. Harrison: Hey everybody, you just saw a little teaser trailer of Suck It Up Buttercup.
00:46:15.570 --> 00:46:33.019 Frank R. Harrison: Trust and Betrayal Healthcare in America. Now, I'm curious to know, Todd, where do you anticipate this being released? In hospital systems? On Netflix? On… in theaters? What's your potential plan for the future? Over the internet, obviously.
00:46:33.470 --> 00:46:36.600 Todd Otten: Well, how about if I just answer yes, Frank? .
00:46:36.600 --> 00:46:38.680 Frank R. Harrison: Let's get it everywhere, yes.
00:46:38.680 --> 00:46:50.280 Todd Otten: Yeah, so, I mean, ultimately, oh, wow, this, this is interesting. So, I often get asked the question, sort of like, who, what's your target audience? You gotta have a target audience, it's gotta be this little thing, and, you know.
00:46:50.500 --> 00:46:54.089 Todd Otten: You know, when you have this vision of trying to…
00:46:54.330 --> 00:47:08.700 Todd Otten: really inspire and empower the masses, it… you hesitate to want to get down to a niche, you know? And so I've gotten to the point where I say, you know, my target audience is anybody who's frustrated with healthcare in the United States.
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:10.849 Frank R. Harrison: Which is pretty much everyone.
00:47:10.850 --> 00:47:26.649 Todd Otten: freaking number, and so we're actually, we're in the process, as we get closer, discussing distribution plans. And so, yeah, there's gonna be some local screenings, and we're playing for a premiere in Baltimore on March 19th, actually in conjunction with Tom.
00:47:26.970 --> 00:47:35.490 Todd Otten: Yes. And so, that'll be sort of the release, but ultimately, what we'd really like to see with this is to get it onto
00:47:35.790 --> 00:47:52.859 Todd Otten: Ideally, not just one streaming service, but potentially multiple streaming services, so that as many eyeballs can see this as humanly possible. And Frank, at this point, you probably realize that that's not self-serving. Like, I'm, you know, you don't write books, you don't do documentaries to become rich.
00:47:53.000 --> 00:48:02.200 Todd Otten: you do them out of the labor of love, and actually, I'm going to take a step back and maybe give you a little bit more of my why. You know, we touched on part of it,
00:48:02.970 --> 00:48:05.959 Todd Otten: Going through burnout was one of it, but in my career.
00:48:06.340 --> 00:48:09.249 Todd Otten: I've had 4 of my colleagues die by suicide.
00:48:10.060 --> 00:48:15.130 Frank R. Harrison: Including one of my friends from medical school, including one of my mentors and partners.
00:48:15.130 --> 00:48:22.979 Todd Otten: you know, in each one of those events is devastating, but, you know, four times? And not only that, when I was practicing full-time.
00:48:23.140 --> 00:48:25.379 Todd Otten: The frustration of patience.
00:48:25.730 --> 00:48:28.290 Todd Otten: was non-stop.
00:48:28.420 --> 00:48:32.080 Todd Otten: I would have visits where the patient would be
00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:36.499 Todd Otten: Complaining about things that they experienced in the healthcare space.
00:48:36.720 --> 00:48:44.889 Todd Otten: that had nothing to do with their diabetes or hypertension. I'm like, you know, we've talked about, I've let you vent for 20 minutes, we need to work on blood pressure.
00:48:44.910 --> 00:48:57.950 Todd Otten: Let's get back to what we're doing here. But to answer your question, I think there's going to be multiple avenues for people to hopefully see this product as we go forward. The biggest goal is obviously multiple streaming services, though.
00:48:58.540 --> 00:49:09.769 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, no, it's funny, when I think about how, I've been coming up with a particular innovation that really looks at the financing of healthcare.
00:49:09.790 --> 00:49:19.449 Frank R. Harrison: You know, whether it's paying your copay, whether it's coming up with a payment for something that insurance won't cover, or whether it's meeting a high deductible.
00:49:19.630 --> 00:49:31.420 Frank R. Harrison: I mean, you really can't segment the market except between those that don't make money and those that are in elite status that have all the money that they need. But the issue is, is that the through line
00:49:31.550 --> 00:49:33.819 Frank R. Harrison: Is that it's about your health.
00:49:34.710 --> 00:49:36.460 Frank R. Harrison: It's a ubiquitous need.
00:49:36.610 --> 00:49:41.200 Frank R. Harrison: It's just needed differently depending on who you are, and your place in society.
00:49:41.370 --> 00:49:45.149 Frank R. Harrison: So, when you have healthcare being ubiquitous.
00:49:45.460 --> 00:50:04.470 Frank R. Harrison: it doesn't really matter the segmentation strategy for your distribution, you just want to hit the immediate targets first, and then phase it through. That's why people who do healthcare startups, like entrepreneurs, and I was part of an entrepreneurship group about 15 years ago at NYU,
00:50:04.510 --> 00:50:09.189 Frank R. Harrison: I had seen that those healthcare startups would mature after 10 years.
00:50:09.520 --> 00:50:11.350 Frank R. Harrison: They would exit after 20.
00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:23.969 Frank R. Harrison: That's not typical for a new venture. It's usually 3 to 5 years for most traditional ventures, even in the internet economy, or the mobile economy, or whatever was big at that time. New social media apps or companies, stuff like that.
00:50:24.060 --> 00:50:36.510 Frank R. Harrison: But healthcare, it's always a slow build into maturity. And I think if people on the entrepreneurship side understand that, and then of course the healthcare patients.
00:50:36.660 --> 00:50:45.340 Frank R. Harrison: physicians, systems, so forth and so on, understand that on the delivery side, then they can look and have patience
00:50:45.630 --> 00:50:51.150 Frank R. Harrison: P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E. Patience.
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:59.820 Frank R. Harrison: That healthcare eventually does evolve into a humanitarian effort and profit-making venture.
00:51:00.370 --> 00:51:02.410 Frank R. Harrison: If it is worked in tandem.
00:51:02.520 --> 00:51:05.360 Frank R. Harrison: Not in division, which is the current state.
00:51:05.470 --> 00:51:06.640 Frank R. Harrison: of affairs.
00:51:07.130 --> 00:51:14.309 Todd Otten: I agree, there's a lot of divisiveness that exists in healthcare currently, and this isn't going to be fixed.
00:51:15.170 --> 00:51:29.309 Todd Otten: today, tomorrow, 3 months, 6 months, a year, you know, maybe not even in our lifetimes, necessarily. This is a very complicated problem that we've gotten ourselves into with the existing infrastructure.
00:51:29.330 --> 00:51:36.359 Todd Otten: It's gonna take some time, which is in part why, you know, the calls to action with the documentary are more evergreen.
00:51:36.470 --> 00:51:41.729 Todd Otten: You know, they're not intended to be like, hey, we can fix this in 2026, and everything's gonna be great, like…
00:51:41.730 --> 00:51:42.350 Frank R. Harrison: No.
00:51:42.350 --> 00:51:59.759 Todd Otten: I don't know about that. I… I'm thinking more like 5, 10, 15, 20 years, and it's gonna take a lot of work. It's gonna take a lot of persistence, it's gonna take a lot of time. But, you know, I think that… and maybe we can shift into the positive things, there are a lot of good people out there, Frank.
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:08.230 Todd Otten: There are so many people that want to do something. I can't tell you how many individuals have just said, hey, how can I help? What can I do?
00:52:08.300 --> 00:52:18.940 Todd Otten: you know, expecting absolutely nothing in return to make this project successful. And when you hear those things, and you get those emails or those texts, then you know, you're like, you know what, we're…
00:52:19.150 --> 00:52:26.480 Todd Otten: we're on to something, where people are just wanting to step up and help to make this work. And there's pockets, too, like…
00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:38.229 Todd Otten: there's a lot of amazing things that are happening out there. Recently, I joined a group called Plum Health, and I don't want to get into the weeds too much, but it's a direct primary care group.
00:52:38.350 --> 00:52:45.340 Todd Otten: And, essentially, they cut out… you've got a patient, You've got a clinician, And they interact.
00:52:45.720 --> 00:52:47.860 Todd Otten: And you cut out a lot of the fat.
00:52:48.010 --> 00:52:57.340 Todd Otten: And it's way cheaper, and you get better care, and you can get same-day or next-day appointments routinely. You connect with your clinician using this.
00:52:57.390 --> 00:53:16.029 Todd Otten: Or via email. I mean, how cool is that? And it's at a fraction of the cost of what many people are currently paying. So, for those that are frustrated, I would suggest DPC as Direct Primary Care is something to investigate. It's a movement that's growing around the country, without a doubt.
00:53:16.930 --> 00:53:26.890 Frank R. Harrison: Wow, that's… so then, I guess on that note, even from what you've just mentioned, we've talked about the word advocacy, but advocacy sounds like now a necessary…
00:53:27.680 --> 00:53:40.319 Frank R. Harrison: person, or a necessary role that people have to play at this point, whether it's in a hospital system, or in a community-based organization, or whatever. Does that make sense, or is it just my own conclusion?
00:53:40.750 --> 00:53:55.920 Todd Otten: No, no, I think the spin I would take on it is it's needed now more than ever, and the opportunities… the opportunities are everywhere. I'll give you one more example of just some amazing things. I'm involved with a nonprofit called Medicine Forward.
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:03.760 Todd Otten: And the mission statement of medicine forward is catalyzing positive change so the patient-physician relationship can flourish.
00:54:03.980 --> 00:54:11.440 Todd Otten: And we're fully aware, right, that that dyad of the patient and the physician is supported by an entire ecosystem.
00:54:11.580 --> 00:54:22.819 Todd Otten: Nurses, physical therapists, pharmacists, clinicians, caregivers at home, family members, all kinds of amazing people, and that the organization
00:54:23.990 --> 00:54:32.999 Todd Otten: Of course, again, Frank, I'm biased, because I'm part of it, but it's… it's this incredible community that looks to figure out, like, what can we do?
00:54:33.130 --> 00:54:42.879 Todd Otten: What can we try? How can we explore? You know, so for those that are looking for a landing place as to how they can contribute, that's just another example.
00:54:43.040 --> 00:54:51.269 Todd Otten: I think about the Lorna Brain Foundation, who's working towards removing the barriers to mental health
00:54:51.360 --> 00:55:05.210 Todd Otten: for clinicians and physicians to reduce the physician suicide rate is one of their primary goals. You know, I doubt the majority of the audience knows that we lose about a physician a day in this country.
00:55:08.060 --> 00:55:09.409 Todd Otten: That's… that number…
00:55:09.410 --> 00:55:13.590 Frank R. Harrison: Were they higher rates during COVID versus now, or vice versa?
00:55:14.220 --> 00:55:27.830 Todd Otten: The rates, unfortunately, have been pretty stable, depending on the source you could look, but this has been a problem for a long time. Underreported, not talked about, shoved under the rug, etc.
00:55:28.210 --> 00:55:41.310 Todd Otten: Yeah, and it, you know, Wendy Dean talks about physicians being the canaries in the coal mine in the healthcare industry. That's a perfect example of the systemic problems that exist.
00:55:42.540 --> 00:55:59.679 Frank R. Harrison: I can't believe it, we're 2 minutes to ending. Listen, we're doing another show together. I mean, I literally want you coming back probably the first Thursday after the Christmas holiday, if you don't mind. I mean, it's the 8th of January, a Thursday. Does that sound possible to you?
00:55:59.680 --> 00:56:13.190 Todd Otten: That's great, Jesse, I am pre-booking the show as we speak. I'm gonna give you the short answer of yes, Frank. I will double-check my calendar, but this was a lot of fun, and I, you know, I think it… I think it speaks to the universal interest that
00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:19.330 Todd Otten: People are ready. They want to know more, the appetite for what's truly going on behind the scenes is there.
00:56:19.680 --> 00:56:38.650 Frank R. Harrison: Yes. So, ladies and gentlemen, please take the following takeaways. If you are burning out or have been, it is not your fault, and there is support. Second, buy the book, Ripple of Change, on Amazon.com. That was what I showed you, but if you find it on eBay or anyplace else, by all means, go and grab it.
00:56:38.810 --> 00:56:48.920 Frank R. Harrison: Third, be on the lookout for this documentary. The next show, Todd's next appearance on Frank About Health, will be giving updates on it, and also promoting
00:56:49.070 --> 00:56:58.520 Frank R. Harrison: quote-unquote, the living hell out of it. Simultaneously, I have to thank, Not only
00:56:58.820 --> 00:57:06.649 Frank R. Harrison: Todd for being here, but a shout-out to Tom and Jennyo, who referred me to him. If you remember, he was on my show a few weeks ago.
00:57:06.770 --> 00:57:21.999 Frank R. Harrison: He is a big advocate for social change, and he referred me to another guest who will be on a very special, holiday finale of Frank About Health from his studio, and he's in your documentary, Matthew Zachary, MZ.
00:57:22.560 --> 00:57:27.039 Todd Otten: Oh, I love, I love MC, he's… oh, you're gonna have a blast with MC.
00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:41.659 Frank R. Harrison: Exactly, and to talkradio.nyc out there, I'm gonna make Frank About Health the biggest freedom fighter for all of us, with your support as well. That includes you, Sam, you, Emily, and definitely you, Jesse.
00:57:41.660 --> 00:57:54.119 Frank R. Harrison: Now, I guess, just out of courtesy, I will end the show. I know last time I did a show, I went over by 2 minutes, but, we're also going to be speaking shortly, with my parents, thanks to your wisdom and guidance, and,
00:57:54.120 --> 00:57:54.529 Todd Otten: Thank you.
00:57:54.530 --> 00:58:06.350 Frank R. Harrison: again, for, if you have any questions about Todd, or me, or the show, please email me at frankrharrison1 at gmail.com. Otherwise, see you all next week. Bye-bye.
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