In this episode of The Expansion Room, Shervon Laurice sits down with Daniel McQueen, author of Psychedelic Cannabis and cofounder of the Center for Medicinal Mindfulness, to explore how leaders and high-achievers can use psychedelic cannabis safely, ethically, and intentionally for profound inner transformation.
We dive into what makes cannabis reliably psychedelic, the trauma-informed preparation needed before a journey, and the essential ingredients for responsible self-guided psychedelic work. Daniel also breaks down the 30-day integration practices that help conscious leaders translate insight into measurable change, emotional resilience, and aligned decision-making.
If you’re curious about psychedelic-assisted healing, somatic transformation, or leadership rooted in consciousness and clarity, this conversation offers grounded guidance, safety frameworks, and practical steps for your next evolution.
https://medicinalmindfulness.org/project/daniel-mcqueen/
In the first segment of The Expansion Room, Shervon introduces her guest Daniel McQueen, author of "Psychedelic Cannabis" and co-founder of the Center for Medicinal Mindfulness in Boulder, Colorado. Daniel shares with us his journey into psychedelic work, including his master's degree from Naropa University and his experience using cannabis as a legal psychedelic guide. Daniel explained the transformation of cannabis from a recreational drug to a psychedelic substance, highlighting its historical use as a sacred tool and its instrumental role in early American development. He emphasizes the importance of creating a safe space and understanding dose-dependent effects to achieve a psychedelic experience, combining indica and sativa strains to balance anxiety and creativity
In this segment, Shervon and Daniel discuss the importance of mindset shifts and trauma-informed care in preparing for psychedelic cannabis experiences. Daniel emphasizes the urgency of accessible trauma resolution and shared tools for self-screening, including questions about mental health, trauma history, and life stability. He highlights cannabis as a safe psychedelic for self-guided journeys and provides guidance on starting at lower doses for those with significant trauma or instability in their lives.
The third segment begins with Daniel and Shervon discussing the importance of screening and preparation for cannabis use, particularly in relation to mental health concerns like psychosis. They emphasize the need for individuals to consult mental health providers if they have such concerns. Daniel highlights the generally safe nature of cannabis, noting its few contraindications compared to other substances, and its potential benefits for physical health and autoimmune disorders. They also talk about grounding and resourcing practices, such as belly breathing, journaling, and setting intentions, to prepare for and manage cannabis experiences. Daniel advised reminding oneself that transformation and healing are inevitable, encouraging a relaxed approach during journeys.
The Final segment begins with Shervon and Daniel sharing the importance of seeking guidance when navigating challenging aspects of solo psychedelic work, emphasizing the value of community support and professional guides. They highlight the significance of having non-judgmental therapists who understand the complexities of such experiences. Shervon shares with us a personal story about providing support to someone who needed guidance with preparation and integration but not during the journey itself. They both agree that while solo work is possible, having a guide or community support can be beneficial, especially when facing difficult or unexpected challenges.
00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:11.750 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Hello, and welcome back to the Expansion Room. I'm your host, Siobhan Lauriese.
00:01:11.870 --> 00:01:16.019 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And today, we're going to be talking about a topic that
00:01:16.180 --> 00:01:29.180 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: at the intersection of deep healing and transformation, and awakening for the leaders, the conscious leaders of the world. So we'll be talking about psychedelic cannabis.
00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:38.250 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And talking about the ethical and trauma-informed and safe ways that one can,
00:01:38.440 --> 00:01:54.499 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: step into psychedelic work using cannabis. And so my special guest today is one of my favorite humans, Daniel McQueen. He is the author of the book, Psychedelic Cannabis, and if you all
00:01:54.530 --> 00:02:17.120 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: have been watching this podcast for some time, I have referenced that book a few times, and we have done episodes with my colleague, Serena Glone, in reference to psychedelic cannabis, and so it's lovely to have Daniel McQueen here, who authored that book and helped me to step into this work.
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:22.059 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And he is also the co-founder of the Center for Medicinal Mindfulness.
00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:25.470 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Out in Boulder, Colorado. So welcome, Daniel.
00:02:25.910 --> 00:02:28.940 Daniel McQueen: Hey, Siobhan, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
00:02:29.550 --> 00:02:39.720 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Happy to have you. Can you tell the audience a little bit about what helped you step into this work? And then we'll go into…
00:02:39.870 --> 00:02:40.910 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The rest of the segment?
00:02:40.910 --> 00:02:42.550 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, sure, sure.
00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:58.569 Daniel McQueen: You know, that's a long story and a long journey, but I've always been interested and curious about the underlying nature of reality and spiritual practices, and I also had my own path of healing through trauma that,
00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:13.790 Daniel McQueen: was essential in my development as well, and I got my master's degree in counseling at Naropa University with the intention of becoming a psychedelic guide, and since then, the world really opened up to these possibilities, and
00:03:13.950 --> 00:03:16.399 Daniel McQueen: So I had the opportunity to…
00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:33.989 Daniel McQueen: step into working as an above-board legal psychedelic guide using cannabis. So, cannabis was my primary ally as a teacher and healer for a long time, and really grateful for the medicine, and also really grateful for all the allies and activists who helped make that possible.
00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.290 Daniel McQueen: Nice.
00:03:36.290 --> 00:03:42.460 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I wish I had known about Naropa when I was looking to do my master's degree.
00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:44.069 Daniel McQueen: It's a cool place, I like.
00:03:44.070 --> 00:03:44.770 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. Can you agree?
00:03:44.770 --> 00:03:53.429 Daniel McQueen: experiential, mindfulness-based, and it works really well with the psychedelic practices that we engage, so I'm really grateful for that opportunity.
00:03:53.640 --> 00:04:01.059 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely, absolutely. Thanks so much for sharing, that bit of information. We have talked
00:04:01.420 --> 00:04:10.540 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Several times, and probably for some people, it's like, oh my goodness, ad nauseam, because we've talked on this show about
00:04:10.670 --> 00:04:20.440 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Cannabis, and so many people still think of it as recreational, for relaxation, for socializing,
00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:34.540 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And not always… and now, people do think about it in that therapeutic way, right? You can, you know, use it medicinally, and the science backing that, and so forth, but people are still…
00:04:34.710 --> 00:04:47.939 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Not fully aware of the transformational effects, the somatic and conscious healing effects that cannabis at the psychedelic level can bring.
00:04:48.410 --> 00:04:55.540 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so, I still hear from people sometimes that, that sentence, Cannabis is not a psychic.
00:04:55.540 --> 00:04:56.380 Daniel McQueen: ballot.
00:04:56.630 --> 00:04:59.590 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: This can't be a psychedelic, right?
00:05:00.270 --> 00:05:05.329 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so what… what makes cannabis, psychedelic cannabis.
00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:09.409 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Reliable in this arena as a psychedelic, right?
00:05:09.880 --> 00:05:17.779 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: How does it go from relaxing and recreational to something that can help transform someone's life?
00:05:17.780 --> 00:05:18.350 Daniel McQueen: Nope.
00:05:19.190 --> 00:05:22.319 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, yeah, that's an important question, and I think…
00:05:22.520 --> 00:05:32.780 Daniel McQueen: we want to acknowledge that, like, it's a worldview shift to consider psychedelic, or cannabis as a psychedelic. So I get that that's not an easy leap for a lot of us, and…
00:05:33.210 --> 00:05:40.519 Daniel McQueen: And this is part of modernity, and also the war on drugs, and the harm that was caused by the war on drugs, and
00:05:40.640 --> 00:05:45.850 Daniel McQueen: Criminalizing communities of color and, non-mainstream
00:05:45.960 --> 00:05:59.300 Daniel McQueen: communities and ways of being. So let's just acknowledge the harm and the trauma associated with cannabis, because that's… that's part of the… where the disbelief comes from. But if we… if we take a step back and look at the historical…
00:05:59.520 --> 00:06:10.550 Daniel McQueen: life of cannabis. It's… it's been acknowledged as a sacred tool and a psychedelic for thousands of years, beginning in ancient India, in
00:06:10.630 --> 00:06:23.130 Daniel McQueen: And in Hindu, one of the names of cannabis is actually Vijaya, and it means the queen who conquers all worlds. And so, there's a deep respect for this medicine.
00:06:23.340 --> 00:06:28.189 Daniel McQueen: And from, China and India, it spread across,
00:06:28.210 --> 00:06:38.130 Daniel McQueen: the, through Africa and into the United States, through Jamaica, and the Caribbeans, and, and it landed in America and has been instrumental in,
00:06:38.130 --> 00:06:42.320 Daniel McQueen: the development of the United States, you know, in the early… as a… as a…
00:06:42.320 --> 00:07:04.410 Daniel McQueen: as a product, you know, hemp seeds were really important to the United States. And so it's only until very recently that it's been really misunderstood as, like, solely a recreational drug, or comparing it to alcohol, right? Right. And at low doses, it is, you know, it's very pleasurable, it's positive. Comparing it to alcohol, like, it doesn't kill people.
00:07:04.410 --> 00:07:10.289 Daniel McQueen: You know, and it doesn't cause harm to our bodies, so I'm really grateful for that, but…
00:07:10.290 --> 00:07:29.449 Daniel McQueen: as a culture, though, we forgot how to use it. And so what I, you know, began to explore, and through it with friends and allies, you know, this isn't something I invented or anything like that, but renegotiated, I guess, with the medicine, and brought it back to our culture in a new way.
00:07:29.450 --> 00:07:35.420 Daniel McQueen: And so, to make cannabis psychedelic, we have to let go of it being a recreational medicine.
00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:39.010 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And we are required to set up a space.
00:07:39.010 --> 00:07:49.270 Daniel McQueen: That can hold that safely. So you're not gonna… no matter how much cannabis you smoke, you're generally not gonna have a, psychedelic experience, if you're just hanging out with your friends.
00:07:49.270 --> 00:08:03.059 Daniel McQueen: Right? But, you know, creating a safe container for the experience, and then… and then to acknowledge that the effects are dose-dependent. It's super simple. So, the idea is you, you know, like, you take more of the medicine.
00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:19.410 Daniel McQueen: And that helps you reach these psychedelic states. Now, the problem with just smoking any cannabis is that it can have other side effects. One, you know, paranoia and anxiety on the sativa side, on the elevated side of the medicine.
00:08:19.410 --> 00:08:25.789 Daniel McQueen: And if you smoke too much of an indica, you're just gonna feel droopy, or sleepy, or, you know, kind of dull. But…
00:08:25.790 --> 00:08:26.230 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.
00:08:26.230 --> 00:08:29.940 Daniel McQueen: What we found is if you combine these two types of strengths.
00:08:30.220 --> 00:08:41.369 Daniel McQueen: Sativas and indicas. The indica helps reduce the anxiety of the sativa, and the sativa helps keep you awake and real creative, and
00:08:41.470 --> 00:08:49.270 Daniel McQueen: And it reduces the droopiness of the indica. And so what we are left with is a really elevated, creative.
00:08:49.500 --> 00:09:03.199 Daniel McQueen: When our eyes are closed, we can have inner visual experiences, akin to mushrooms, but with a really deeply relaxed and felt sense safety in the body. And so that's why it's really beneficial for trauma resolution.
00:09:03.330 --> 00:09:21.180 Daniel McQueen: We can go into more of that if we want, but, you know, so dose dependence, then, the right space and container, music is lovely in this medicine. And then the last piece is just posture, and, not holding yourself up and letting yourself relax, laying down.
00:09:21.260 --> 00:09:37.499 Daniel McQueen: In yoga traditions, you know, in the savasana, which is basically laying on your back with your legs and arms uncrossed, there's something about that process that really amplifies the experience. And so, if you can let yourself sink into that space, it really does become
00:09:37.810 --> 00:09:56.240 Daniel McQueen: very classically psychedelic, but with the emotion, you know, like, very much like psilocybin mushrooms or ayahuasca, DMT, but with a lot of emotional support, like MDMA. So, so it has a lot of support in it as well.
00:09:56.250 --> 00:10:15.030 Daniel McQueen: So, you know, just through exploration and curiosity and listening to the medicine and our experiences, we really have dialed this process in. And there's, you know, there's a lot… there could be a lot more nuance than just adding an indica and sativa together, but that's the gist of it. And then we've dialed it in even more.
00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:20.210 Daniel McQueen: Beyond that for, like, trauma resolution work and spiritual exploration work.
00:10:20.780 --> 00:10:25.900 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Indeed, indeed. Thank you for that. I think that… that's the…
00:10:26.050 --> 00:10:31.369 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I've said on this show a lot of times, it's the parentheses, right? It's the…
00:10:31.830 --> 00:10:40.189 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: that first parentheses of preparation, like, where are you going to be, right? Setting an intention, and really…
00:10:40.630 --> 00:10:43.130 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Taking good medicine.
00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:48.069 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Not just something that is randomly grown, but you want good, clean.
00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:49.170 Daniel McQueen: No, that's, that's a…
00:10:49.170 --> 00:10:49.620 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: about it.
00:10:49.620 --> 00:10:56.200 Daniel McQueen: Definitely a valid variable as well, yeah. I'm assuming that. I live in Colorado, so I'm kind of assuming…
00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:57.000 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: medicine!
00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.609 Daniel McQueen: Assuming that we're starting with really good medicine.
00:10:59.690 --> 00:11:01.739 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Here on the East Coast!
00:11:02.540 --> 00:11:18.670 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, very true, fair enough. Yeah, so don't assume that the cannabis we're used to smoking 20 years ago is what we're talking about here, you know, or what you get down the street. We're talking about really high quality, clean, organically grown, really wonderful smelling.
00:11:18.670 --> 00:11:23.259 Daniel McQueen: Flour, and and that's a definite variable, for sure.
00:11:23.260 --> 00:11:40.270 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, and making that blend. I think… I think most… not all people realize you could blend. I know… I didn't know that before meeting you, that you could blend strains and create the kinds of effects that you're looking for, and so that, I think, is key, too, is that…
00:11:40.400 --> 00:11:47.669 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Encouraging people to really think about, okay, this does not have to, nor need it look like.
00:11:47.900 --> 00:11:50.970 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Any other way you've used cannabis before?
00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:51.570 Daniel McQueen: Right.
00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:52.700 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: You know? So…
00:11:52.700 --> 00:12:17.279 Daniel McQueen: You've got to step out of that old mindset. It is literally, like, a worldview, right? And, you just, like, and being unconscious and smoking the J, or hanging out with friends, this is a very different experience. And the blending is part of the ceremony, and it's really a special piece, but, you know, like, if you get the right strains, they cancel out the negative effects and amplify the positive, which is…
00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:37.310 Daniel McQueen: something we discovered, you know, like, we knew blending was great, but, like, didn't realize the real potential until we started to dial it in. And that's really where the magic is in these blends. Like I said, just, like, the Sativa Indica blend is, like, the very foundational blend, and there's a lot we can play with that goes way beyond that.
00:12:37.310 --> 00:12:49.890 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Exactly, exactly. Well, thank you. So, we're about to take our first break, and when we come back, we're going to talk about preparation, and the screening, and what you want to
00:12:50.210 --> 00:13:04.280 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: ask yourself if you want to step into this work, and whether or not you're doing this with a qualified guide, or you want to step into this work on your own, what are the things you should be thinking about?
00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:04.720 Daniel McQueen: Yo.
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.779 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Come on back in a couple of minutes.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:15:02.659 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the Expansion Room. I'm your host, Siobhan Larisse, and today we are talking about psychedelic cannabis at the intersection of deep healing and transformation.
00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:15.140 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: we find ourselves talking with Daniel McQueen, and we talked a little bit about the history, right? What you do in order to,
00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:30.109 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Create a more psychedelic experience with cannabis, and it's really that mindset shift, that mindset change that people have to have, that paradigm shift in how they look at cannabis.
00:15:30.110 --> 00:15:38.700 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: and cannabis use. And in this segment, we're going to talk a little bit about the trauma-informed care that goes into
00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:43.379 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: prepping for this kind of work, and…
00:15:43.550 --> 00:16:01.240 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: whether a person is wanting to work with a trained guide, or to step into this work the way you describe it in your book, and that was one of the things I loved about reading your book the first time, was that you gave almost, like.
00:16:01.510 --> 00:16:02.839 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: A blueprint.
00:16:03.510 --> 00:16:20.470 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: that people could use into stepping in this work… into this work, and it really was about the state of the world and where we are, and almost like an urgency where people needed to have that consciousness,
00:16:20.750 --> 00:16:32.140 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: that awakening, that transformation, right? Right. And so, can you say a little bit more about that piece? Because we seem to be in an even more interesting time than when your book came out.
00:16:32.180 --> 00:16:48.370 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, an interesting time is a way to describe it, right? Yeah, there is a sense of urgency, you know, and I started… you know, the spirit of cannabis, it's a flower, it's a plant, it grows everywhere, so, like, the symbolism of cannabis, and you share it, right? You share it with friends, and…
00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.199 Daniel McQueen: We wanted to make it as accessible as possible, you know, not hold on to these
00:16:53.200 --> 00:17:05.810 Daniel McQueen: ideas as a technology or something that, you know, we profit on, right? Not everybody has access to a psychedelic trauma specialist, and the world needs a lot of trauma resolution right now, right?
00:17:05.810 --> 00:17:16.939 Daniel McQueen: And so, the idea is, how do we empower people to do this work on their own? And I don't know if you want me to jump into this right now, but, you know, screening and preparation is, like, one of the biggest factors.
00:17:16.940 --> 00:17:35.560 Daniel McQueen: You know, so what questions can we ask ourselves so that we know we're ready for the work, and to not put ourselves in harm's way doing it, right? Absolutely. And, you know, and I think of trauma resolution and healing. You know, we're talking about the intersection of healing and transformation. They really are the same process.
00:17:36.170 --> 00:17:50.349 Daniel McQueen: that, you know, we're letting go of the past and our healing and trauma resolution, but we're stepping into creative problem solving for our future. And cannabis as a medicine is, like, really primed for, like, problem solving in both of those
00:17:50.350 --> 00:18:03.090 Daniel McQueen: areas, and it's not so strong, like a high-dose mushroom journey, where people can't take it safely on their own, right? So it's the safest psychedelic for people to use.
00:18:03.090 --> 00:18:20.489 Daniel McQueen: on their own, so we wanted to give as many tools as we could to help people do this work without me being in the room, you know, honestly. And I love… I love it when people come here to visit and do work with me, but I know that's not available for everybody, so I felt obligated, in a way, to share what we were doing.
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:27.439 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Some of the questions that you would recommend,
00:18:28.580 --> 00:18:46.319 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: for people to ask themselves, or even to ask a guide. Like, sometimes people don't know what they don't know, and so they have to ask questions, so what would some of those be in the realm of either mental health, trauma, even physical health?
00:18:46.320 --> 00:18:57.939 Daniel McQueen: readiness and readiness for a journey like this. Yeah, let's unpack that together, you know. So, you know, there's some basic ones. You know, there are some mental health contraindications with any psychedelic.
00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:08.989 Daniel McQueen: But with cannabis, for sure, too. And, the big one is psychosis, or history of psychosis. You know, you know, that's just not something you really want to mix with any medicines.
00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:26.089 Daniel McQueen: Bipolar disorder is something we want to pay attention to, but some people are able to use cannabis to help treat their, you know, the symptoms of bipolar disorder, but for other people, it's not a good medicine for them. So, most of the time, though, people know the answers to those two questions, right?
00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:43.670 Daniel McQueen: Another one is, like, if there's trauma in the room, PTSD in the room, it's like, how significant is it? And do I really want to do this on my own? Do I have the skills necessary to engage this? You know, again, we've done everything we can, to prepare everybody for these journeys.
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:54.049 Daniel McQueen: So, it's not black and white, do it or don't, but maybe you start out at a lower dose, and you don't do, you don't go for the full psychedelic journey doses right away.
00:19:54.130 --> 00:20:08.859 Daniel McQueen: And then just a general stability in life, like, how am I in my life? Do I have, you know, like, am I functional? Do I have a roof over my head? And do I, you know, am I… if I don't have a job, am I secure in my finances and things?
00:20:08.860 --> 00:20:19.259 Daniel McQueen: I think that's really important to consider as well. What, you know, the question is, what do I need to do to prepare for one of the potentially most transformational experiences of my life?
00:20:19.300 --> 00:20:24.769 Daniel McQueen: And how do I take that seriously without being rigid around it, you know?
00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:34.520 Daniel McQueen: So those are the areas that I was really thinking about before our call, what I want to, you know, mention in this kind of screening, pre-journey phase.
00:20:34.670 --> 00:20:37.319 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, yeah, and those are all…
00:20:38.330 --> 00:20:43.480 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: important, especially with the psychosis. You don't want to…
00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:52.610 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Find out you were teetering in that area of psychosis, and then get you know.
00:20:52.610 --> 00:20:53.580 Daniel McQueen: Launched off of that.
00:20:53.580 --> 00:21:01.000 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. It can be really destabilizing. But, I mean, with cannabis, like, really, it is the safest, and.
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:19.220 Daniel McQueen: People generally, you know, like, again, if you have any concerns around psychosis, you know, that's something you would really want to just check in with a mental health provider regardless, right? And it's easy to unpack and to just determine if that's a real, you know, concern or not. Absolutely.
00:21:19.370 --> 00:21:22.519 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I think the other piece is the physical, and so maybe…
00:21:22.520 --> 00:21:23.450 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, physical.
00:21:23.450 --> 00:21:27.340 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: issues, that should be something that's on their radar?
00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:39.020 Daniel McQueen: To a degree, of course, you know, like, you know, blood pressure goes up a little bit, right? But again, it's… cannabis is generally the safest of the medicines, so, heart health, and then,
00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:52.499 Daniel McQueen: Just lost it. You know, most medications are okay to use with cannabis, but that would be something you'd want to check in around, but there's not a lot of contraindications with cannabis, unlike some of the other psychedelics or MDMAs, so…
00:21:52.500 --> 00:22:02.589 Daniel McQueen: You know, that's not a huge concern. What we found, generally speaking, because the endocannabinoid system is throughout the body, most autoimmune disorders and other illnesses
00:22:02.590 --> 00:22:08.759 Daniel McQueen: actually improve when people use cannabis intentionally. So, you know, so…
00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:09.560 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: One of those people.
00:22:09.560 --> 00:22:16.630 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, me too, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. I've seen incredible transformational healing on the physical.
00:22:16.650 --> 00:22:22.569 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: with these practices. Not just smoking pot, but with these, you know, with these practices.
00:22:23.100 --> 00:22:23.660 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yep.
00:22:23.770 --> 00:22:35.340 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely. And what would be some of the grounding practices that people would want to consider, as they prepare for this,
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.730 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: For, and even during.
00:22:38.970 --> 00:22:41.030 Daniel McQueen: Drowning? Yeah,
00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:55.139 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, so we call that resourcing, too, in our space. You know, so, like, the ability to take a break from a big experience and return to the breath, if we can add, you know, share one technique, that would be
00:22:55.140 --> 00:23:09.229 Daniel McQueen: The one I would say is, just bringing a relationship with your breath. Not just any breath, but actually, it seems like the most helpful is belly breathing. And intentionally turning towards and relaxing into the experience.
00:23:09.230 --> 00:23:13.820 Daniel McQueen: And then, you know, knowing that it's okay to take breaks,
00:23:13.830 --> 00:23:32.920 Daniel McQueen: Before journeys, you know, journaling is really important, and intention… we call it setting an intention, contemplation, meditation, body scan meditations, anything, any sort of pampering, self-care, really, really great before these journeys. You want to be as resource as possible.
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:47.580 Daniel McQueen: You know, I know that, like, one area, one other area I think about when, like, resourcing is that reminding myself that, transformation is inevitable, healing is inevitable, and that I can just relax into the experience.
00:23:47.580 --> 00:23:55.200 Daniel McQueen: not push too hard, not try to do too much. In some ways, we try to stop doing things on these journeys, and slow way down.
00:23:56.450 --> 00:24:02.889 Daniel McQueen: So that would be my number one go-to, is breath coaching, right? So that's one of the gifts of being, like.
00:24:02.890 --> 00:24:17.040 Daniel McQueen: having a guide in the room is helping remind you of the things you can do in the space to self-regulate, and sometimes that's harder to do on our own, but it's not, like, it's not impossible, though. People with meditation practices.
00:24:17.040 --> 00:24:23.000 Daniel McQueen: Really thrive in these… In these journey spaces with cannabis.
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:23.600 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Damn.
00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:28.739 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Very true, very true. I've seen that, I've experienced that, for sure.
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:31.990 Daniel McQueen: I think the other thing that people…
00:24:32.060 --> 00:24:41.959 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We'll want to consider, if they're doing this on their own, no one in the space with them is letting someone know what they're doing.
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:42.870 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right.
00:24:42.870 --> 00:24:43.490 Daniel McQueen: Yeah.
00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:48.699 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: just having a person that they check in with, say, hey, I'm about to go in.
00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:49.100 Daniel McQueen: Yes.
00:24:49.100 --> 00:24:51.749 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The person they check in with when they come out of the journey.
00:24:51.750 --> 00:24:56.240 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, so setting… yeah, that's really important. It's no… and not only…
00:24:56.520 --> 00:24:58.940 Daniel McQueen: Not only being safe, but knowing you're safe.
00:24:59.260 --> 00:25:17.559 Daniel McQueen: knowing there's support around you, and knowing that there's somebody you can call or connect with if you need to, that takes, like, 90% of the edge off of it, off the top right away, right? It doesn't have to be someone in the house, but generally, you know, with cannabis, big medicine experiences, you do want, like, some
00:25:17.560 --> 00:25:23.309 Daniel McQueen: backup support, if you can, as a… as a safety net. You know, somebody you can call, an ally.
00:25:23.370 --> 00:25:27.339 Daniel McQueen: So that's a, that's a really good… a good one too, Siobhan.
00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:31.199 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, and then, what is, like,
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.779 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The aftercare, you know, the other parenthesis.
00:25:35.940 --> 00:25:47.630 Daniel McQueen: I love, yeah, I love the parentheses. The aftercare for me is, like, self-care, in a, in a way that's, like, supportive, like,
00:25:47.870 --> 00:25:49.290 Daniel McQueen: Would you say?
00:25:49.320 --> 00:26:02.619 Daniel McQueen: Comfort foods, you know, making sure you've got good nutrition, you know, and you're feeling good in your body. I love hot baths after these journeys. I think that really helps me, but also movement and getting outside, yoga.
00:26:02.620 --> 00:26:11.180 Daniel McQueen: Walking, you know, getting the blood moving again, feeling your humanness and your physical body after these big experiences.
00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:28.640 Daniel McQueen: And then the last piece of the parentheses that I think is most important is, like, really start implementing the things and the ideas and the insights that you receive. Don't just be passive in that state, but oftentimes there's an opening after these journey experiences where you can step into something that you're really called to.
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:29.160 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so.
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:36.659 Daniel McQueen: So that's a really important part of it, and that takes it out of the recreational trip place and puts it into the transformational place.
00:26:36.850 --> 00:26:53.179 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely. I've talked a lot about integration with people on this show, as well as, you know, in my practice, and that is the thing that really… that intention setting that you talked about in the beginning, and then doing this piece at the end to follow.
00:26:53.180 --> 00:26:58.199 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Is really what helps it to be more than a recreational experience.
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:58.740 Daniel McQueen: Yo.
00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:00.180 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Every time.
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:07.330 Daniel McQueen: Every time. Yeah. Allison, my wife, says… asks the question, what's possible now that wasn't before?
00:27:07.330 --> 00:27:07.910 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.
00:27:07.910 --> 00:27:12.690 Daniel McQueen: And that's a fun one to really consider, and then to go do it, you know, to go try it out.
00:27:13.150 --> 00:27:13.630 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely.
00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:17.519 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And that's the piece, and I'm glad you mentioned
00:27:17.710 --> 00:27:35.759 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: the, you know, getting outside after a journey, walking around, feeling human, eating good food. I always tell people when they're going to set these things up, even if they're working with me or working on their own, make sure you make food before you do the journey, or make sure you have food.
00:27:35.760 --> 00:27:36.240 Daniel McQueen: Yeah.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:44.080 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Already cooked and prepared so that when the journey is over, you can ground with something really good and hearty and, you know.
00:27:44.080 --> 00:27:46.119 Daniel McQueen: And after cannabis, it tastes really good.
00:27:46.120 --> 00:27:46.909 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And it tastes right.
00:27:48.280 --> 00:27:52.000 Daniel McQueen: See, there's… munchies are a real phenomenon, you know.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.219 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It's so true! And you want it to be real food.
00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:55.690 Daniel McQueen: I just…
00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:57.539 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Snack-ish food, so…
00:27:57.870 --> 00:28:09.840 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So, so true. Alright, we're going to take our second break, and when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about integration. So come on back.
00:29:42.590 --> 00:30:00.230 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the Expansion Room, where today we are talking about psychedelic cannabis with our guest, Daniel McQueen, and we ended last segment talking a little bit about integration, and so I want to continue that a little bit in this segment.
00:30:00.230 --> 00:30:11.550 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And I'm thinking of one of my favorite topics, and some of my clients call me the boundaries queen, and so I'm thinking, like, what boundaries
00:30:11.550 --> 00:30:24.220 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What a person need to put in place, or at least consider when stepping into this work, whether they have a guide, or whether they're going to do this solo?
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:39.069 Daniel McQueen: like, okay, so, in the session, boundary… you know, so we call it a consent agreement, right? And, and you can have… you want a consent agreement with yourself, as well as anybody else in the room.
00:30:39.070 --> 00:30:56.199 Daniel McQueen: Including guides, and if you're working with a guide, that's really their job to do as well, but you want to make sure you know you're safe, right? So certain boundaries is, like, you gotta trust everybody that you're with, and to not sidestep that or skip that. And then to have, like, consent agreements around touch.
00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:03.600 Daniel McQueen: And, right relationship to, safety and respect of other people's,
00:31:03.790 --> 00:31:11.490 Daniel McQueen: you know, agency and sovereignty, right? And then the space itself, like, you know, defining what the space is.
00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:35.540 Daniel McQueen: with a commitment that you're not gonna leave that space, right? You're not gonna run off in the middle of it, or leave your home in the middle of it, or drive afterwards. That, you know, the space might be your bedroom, or your living room, if you have a backyard, maybe your backyard, maybe not, and the bathroom, you know, and that's, like, you know, you gotta commit to, these safeties, so…
00:31:35.540 --> 00:31:52.430 Daniel McQueen: Even if God came down and told you to change the agreement, after you take the medicine, like, no, you're… we, you know, you're committed to, you know, those boundaries. So, I'm a queen of boundaries as well, right? So, I really appreciate it.
00:31:52.850 --> 00:32:07.219 Daniel McQueen: And then after the journey, I'd say, don't make big decisions right away. That's a real big one, because sometimes the mess… like, the message will be true, but when we sit with it for a little while after the journey, it might shift a little bit here and there.
00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:13.630 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so if you jump into a new adventure too quickly, you might be kind of missing the mark.
00:32:14.760 --> 00:32:26.579 Daniel McQueen: So, for some people, we say a couple of weeks. Other people, though, we say, like, give yourself a couple of months before you make big decisions. Yeah. The one exception to that is to stop doing something that's harmful.
00:32:26.580 --> 00:32:42.299 Daniel McQueen: Sometimes people have an opening to break habits or addictions and things like that, or make a change in their life, so it's like, I'm choosing to stop doing something. That's something that you can generally, you know, like, step into right away. There's a nice opening for it.
00:32:42.300 --> 00:32:46.620 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely. But packing up all of your things and moving across country, you might.
00:32:46.620 --> 00:33:03.759 Daniel McQueen: Wait a little while. Quitting your job, or, like, leaving a relationship, you know, like, those real big, those big life decisions. You want to really set, you know, sit with it, because I found there's a lot of richness in that integration period where more information comes that's required.
00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:05.430 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely.
00:33:05.550 --> 00:33:12.570 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. I think, too, the other piece of the boundaries is knowing who you can share this.
00:33:12.570 --> 00:33:13.250 Daniel McQueen: So good one.
00:33:13.250 --> 00:33:14.109 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: with, right?
00:33:14.110 --> 00:33:14.500 Daniel McQueen: Yeah.
00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:16.059 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And who not to.
00:33:16.260 --> 00:33:32.480 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, not everybody understands that it's, like, healthy and vibrant to smoke cannabis and lay on the middle… lay on your floor and turn inward, right? Like, there can be a lot of judgments in that, right? And so, so it's a very special experience. But I tell people, it's private. Let it be private for you, and…
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.890 Daniel McQueen: Only share those who can, you know, who can support you. That doesn't mean, like, agree with you 100%, but, like.
00:33:37.890 --> 00:33:48.760 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right, right. Has your back, and wouldn't judge, because it can be a real delicate space after a journey. Absolutely. That's a good one, yeah.
00:33:49.410 --> 00:34:07.070 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: In your framework that you outline, in the book so beautifully, I… I believe this solo work can be, very much incorporated into, like, conscious leaders' lives, right?
00:34:07.070 --> 00:34:12.120 Daniel McQueen: Just leaders, high achievers, entrepreneurs, creative types.
00:34:12.120 --> 00:34:17.560 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: For them to be able to step into this work, and…
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:32.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: when you look at that group of people, what would be some of the essential ingredients for that self-guided work? And are there particular boundaries that people should never cross?
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:34.940 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: In doing this work without a facilitator.
00:34:36.170 --> 00:34:59.499 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, I think we've… I think we've touched on most of the boundaries, stuff. You know, like, so, entrepreneurs and, agents, leaders, you know, generally are healthy individuals, you know, are really driven, but we all have glitches, and we all have roadblocks and inner obstacles and things like that, so, so cannabis and any of the psychedelics, but I love cannabis as a problem-solving tool, because
00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:02.790 Daniel McQueen: It explores what we're called to do in the world.
00:35:02.790 --> 00:35:05.780 Daniel McQueen: And then gives us very specific…
00:35:06.010 --> 00:35:20.850 Daniel McQueen: concrete solutions to the… to what we wish to create in the world. It's like, it can be very specific. But in addition to that, it also helps us turn towards the areas in our body that we feel stuck in.
00:35:20.850 --> 00:35:31.860 Daniel McQueen: And our belief systems that we feel stuck in. And so, being an entrepreneur or a leader with working with cannabis, you have to be willing to look at yourself.
00:35:31.950 --> 00:35:46.270 Daniel McQueen: And that's hard to do sometimes, right? You know, to acknowledge shadow aspects, or old injuries, or belief systems that are outdated. Because… and what I found is, even if it's really, really hard, we're always gifted with a solution.
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:54.469 Daniel McQueen: And that our job as leaders and entrepreneurs, or, you know, like, again, like, people who
00:35:54.520 --> 00:36:05.760 Daniel McQueen: create in the world is to then implement what we're… what we're… what we discover in the space. And so imagine, like, getting this answer to a problem in our lives.
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:20.819 Daniel McQueen: The removal of an obstacle, and then an impetus, or like a drive, like this innate drive that will push us further into it. But it's… we're always left with choice and agency, so it's up to us to choose to do it.
00:36:20.870 --> 00:36:34.750 Daniel McQueen: And, what I've found is people who don't integrate, you know, like, bring in the solutions that they see, have a hard time. They start to spin out and, and get burdened, you know, or, like, you know, it causes a…
00:36:34.750 --> 00:36:42.430 Daniel McQueen: a burden in their lives. And so… and so when you see the solution, in a way, we almost feel spiritually obligated to…
00:36:42.520 --> 00:36:54.369 Daniel McQueen: engage it? You know, does that make sense? Like, like, there's consequences if we don't engage it. So, so cannabis, you know, again, cannabis, one of the benefits of cannabis could be used
00:36:54.370 --> 00:37:12.550 Daniel McQueen: on a, like, a really pretty regular basis, you know, like, once a week, you know, an entrepreneurial practice once a week, once every other week kind of thing, whereas you really can't take other psychedelic medicines that frequently. So, with cannabis, it can become, like, an ongoing practice of.
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:28.620 Daniel McQueen: Integration, preparation, journey, clearing, integration, stepping into, co-creation, then preparate, you know, and just, like, just this unfolding movement forward. And it can get a momentum to it, you know?
00:37:28.890 --> 00:37:40.360 Daniel McQueen: So, you know, so it really turning towards self is the key to all of these things, and then being very strategic in the implementation, you know.
00:37:41.350 --> 00:37:42.490 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely.
00:37:42.680 --> 00:37:49.360 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: When is a good time for anyone who's doing this work solo?
00:37:49.550 --> 00:37:57.620 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: to maybe step into a guided experience. I imagine that for some people.
00:37:57.740 --> 00:38:02.240 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: some things may come up that they're surprised about. They're like.
00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:03.260 Daniel McQueen: Oh, sure.
00:38:03.830 --> 00:38:07.420 Daniel McQueen: Yeah. They'd be like, didn't see that coming.
00:38:07.670 --> 00:38:09.930 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What would be some of those times?
00:38:11.160 --> 00:38:13.809 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, right.
00:38:14.370 --> 00:38:21.030 Daniel McQueen: So, like, semantically, it's like a felt sense of stuckness, and you can't figure out how to get through it.
00:38:21.580 --> 00:38:35.969 Daniel McQueen: That would be an area I would pay attention to, or like you said, maybe you, like, if I were somebody working, and I, like… I would… I've encountered situations where I uncover something I didn't know was there that can be really, really hard.
00:38:35.970 --> 00:38:43.010 Daniel McQueen: And those would be the moments, like, I don't… like, when you say, I don't know what to do with this, I don't actually know what to do with this.
00:38:43.010 --> 00:38:45.160 Daniel McQueen: Content or memory.
00:38:45.160 --> 00:39:03.590 Daniel McQueen: or a belief system, that would be when I would really start seeking out a guide. I'm very blessed, you know, I have good mentors, and, you know, and so as a guide, I seek out guidance as well. So, for me, it's just part of the process. You know, like, one of the things around psychedelic medicine work is to do it in community versus.
00:39:04.120 --> 00:39:23.300 Daniel McQueen: solo, like, most psychedelic medicine people, practitioners, are isolated because of legalization issues and criminality and, you know, global judgment and all these practices. And so, stepping out, like, even if you're doing solo work, it's really important to have a community around you.
00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:23.900 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.
00:39:23.900 --> 00:39:30.760 Daniel McQueen: catch you if you stumble, and then also to be there to lean on when you need one, need somebody, so…
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:45.269 Daniel McQueen: And then as far as, like, guides go, like, real, you know, like, it's the gnarly stuff. Like, when you're like, I don't want to deal with that on my own, right? Like, that doesn't mean don't engage it, but, like, what does real support look like? You know, what if you gave yourself real…
00:39:45.290 --> 00:39:59.550 Daniel McQueen: the gift of real support, and and that's for real, you know, these are real… these are real specialized experiences to be a guide. In a lot of people, it's a lot more than just giving somebody a substance and sitting with them.
00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:06.380 Daniel McQueen: You know, there can be a lot of, things that guides can do in those spaces that just wouldn't have even considered trying on.
00:40:07.180 --> 00:40:08.349 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Fair point, yeah.
00:40:08.350 --> 00:40:09.270 Daniel McQueen: Yeah.
00:40:09.270 --> 00:40:13.520 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I was contacted a few years ago by someone who
00:40:14.120 --> 00:40:20.120 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: couldn't… couldn't necessarily afford a full journey experience. They also didn't live near here.
00:40:20.120 --> 00:40:20.750 Daniel McQueen: Yo.
00:40:21.910 --> 00:40:24.929 Daniel McQueen: But she had the wherewithal…
00:40:24.930 --> 00:40:32.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: To… reach out, For help with just, you know, the preparation, In the intention setting?
00:40:32.660 --> 00:40:39.389 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Go and do her journey on her own, and then we… she came back to do the integration.
00:40:39.780 --> 00:40:40.170 Daniel McQueen: Yeah.
00:40:40.170 --> 00:40:53.640 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: beautiful, right? It's like, I wasn't there in the room with her for her journey experience, but I was there for the parentheses. I was there to help her create the container and hold space for her.
00:40:53.640 --> 00:41:01.360 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And I thought that was brilliant, and I think, in addition to what you're saying there, that's another thing to do. It's like, yeah, seek out a guide when stuff.
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:01.850 Daniel McQueen: Starts.
00:41:01.850 --> 00:41:09.110 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: to get a little gnarly. But also, if something comes up, seek out a therapist who actually
00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:15.029 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: is either trained in this work, or at least understands this work. You don't want to have.
00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:16.490 Daniel McQueen: It's not gonna be judgmental.
00:41:16.490 --> 00:41:18.819 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, therapist who's judgmental, yeah.
00:41:18.820 --> 00:41:36.860 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, being curious, tell me more about that, right? Like, just that question, and really holding a mirror can be really instrumental to help deepen a process. So, anytime you want to deepen, do it with community, do it as a reflection with an ally, or friend or guide, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.
00:41:36.860 --> 00:41:46.900 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Nice, nice. Well, we're about to take our final break, and when we come back, we will kind of tie this all together. And so…
00:41:47.040 --> 00:41:51.279 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Think about, for the audience, I would love for you to think about
00:41:51.790 --> 00:41:57.340 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: how this could be for you to step into this work.
00:41:57.500 --> 00:42:03.179 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: without a guide? Like, are you in a place to do that? And so we'll chat about that.
00:42:03.290 --> 00:42:04.419 Daniel McQueen: Come on back.
00:43:36.530 --> 00:43:45.840 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the Expansion Room, and today we've been talking about psychedelic cannabis with Daniel McQueen, and…
00:43:46.350 --> 00:43:57.170 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: In the work of doing solo healing work in this arena, integration… is really important.
00:43:58.010 --> 00:44:05.140 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: But for someone to even step into this work, what's the biggest question, Daniel, that you think they
00:44:05.290 --> 00:44:07.670 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Should or could ask themselves.
00:44:10.070 --> 00:44:11.180 Daniel McQueen: Hmm…
00:44:12.820 --> 00:44:32.609 Daniel McQueen: it's not necessarily a question, it's more like a felt sense or an impulse, like, am I really pulled to do it? It's like almost a calling, you know, or like an intuitive requirement. And so I would… I would invite the open-ended question of, like, is this something that…
00:44:32.610 --> 00:44:46.530 Daniel McQueen: like, I'm curious about, right? Even just the idea of being curious about it, I think, is really enough. Like, it can be that special. So, I've really learned to trust the impulse of my clients and students
00:44:46.530 --> 00:45:04.000 Daniel McQueen: When they say that. And then… and then, like, some of the details, right, of preparation and readiness, you know, if you want, you know, like, again, in my book, I go in through as many of the contraindications and things that you can assess yourself as you want, but that's almost secondary.
00:45:04.020 --> 00:45:15.630 Daniel McQueen: It's… and it's just like, am I called to it? Am I curious about it? Have I always longed for something that I don't know what's really there, right? Like, but I'm kind of getting a…
00:45:15.720 --> 00:45:23.260 Daniel McQueen: glimpses of it. Anytime somebody has those curiosities, I would really invite them to explore.
00:45:23.300 --> 00:45:36.050 Daniel McQueen: Stepping into working with psychedelics. And again, the other thing is, like, it doesn't have to be black and white. Like, you don't have to go to an ayahuasca retreat in the jungle of Peru as your first session. Cannabis is a really good stepping stone.
00:45:36.050 --> 00:45:36.470 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: back.
00:45:36.470 --> 00:45:47.640 Daniel McQueen: We call it the gateway drug, right? It is, like, it's like, it has its purposes. And so, like, start with, like, you know, intentional use of cannabis. If you've never used cannabis, you don't know how.
00:45:47.640 --> 00:46:00.570 Daniel McQueen: Like, start really just low dose, and set up the safest container you can. Like, don't plan on driving the rest of the day, have good food, and just sit and meditate, and enjoy your moment.
00:46:00.660 --> 00:46:02.240 Daniel McQueen: Exactly.
00:46:02.240 --> 00:46:04.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Exactly, I love that.
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:20.020 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And then on the other side, coming back to integration, because integration is often where the magic happens, right? That's where the real transformation kind of solidifies in someone's life.
00:46:20.050 --> 00:46:29.679 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: settles in in someone's life. And so, in that first 30 days of someone maybe doing a solo journey for themselves.
00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:42.819 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I feel like that first week, of course, is coming back, grounding, you know, that old Buddhist term, when you come down off of the mountain and you come back to the valley, it's chop wood, carry water.
00:46:42.820 --> 00:46:45.270 Daniel McQueen: Chop would carry water, you know.
00:46:45.270 --> 00:47:02.439 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right? Yeah. You come back to life, come back to your life. And so, what are some of the things over, say, a 4-week period that people would want to engage in or do in order to, really own that integration process?
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:03.290 Daniel McQueen: Mmm.
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:08.390 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, you know, it really depends on the person, but, you know, one of the first ones is, like.
00:47:09.120 --> 00:47:13.009 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Looking around and cleaning up your messes, like.
00:47:13.010 --> 00:47:37.449 Daniel McQueen: I know that sounds kind of basic or whatever, but that chop wood, carry water, is a very real integration technique. And what I found is, like, sometimes I don't want to sit and, like, do cognitive things, right? It takes me a little while to land. But if I'm doing the dishes, I feel… I feel useful, I feel good about myself, and when I'm doing, like, physical labor, chop wood, carry water, cleaning up my messes in life.
00:47:37.650 --> 00:47:56.809 Daniel McQueen: I start to… I think about the journey, and I contemplate, and I consider, and I wonder, and I even drop in… in a deeper, you know, so… so that, like, contemplation piece is really important. Physical exercise, again, you know, and I'm not the best at this either, but, like, I'm…
00:47:56.810 --> 00:48:00.329 Daniel McQueen: You know, like, yoga, movement, stretching…
00:48:00.330 --> 00:48:16.320 Daniel McQueen: And then, you know, like, how can I shift my nutritional intake to just a little better? How, you know, it's like, how can I, instead of saying, again, no black and white, I'm not doing anything wrong, we're all imperfect humans, so there's a lot of acceptance.
00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:31.690 Daniel McQueen: That comes with this, but at the same time, it would be like, okay, can I orient 10% more to better health and well-being, right? And then once you just keep doing that 10% over and over again, things can really shift quickly.
00:48:31.740 --> 00:48:39.759 Daniel McQueen: And then, and then, you know, again, after a couple of weeks, just like, okay, I've really considered this idea, I'm ready to take the leap.
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:55.190 Daniel McQueen: what risk can you take in life that can, you know, make you a better human being? Or, at least, even if you fail, you'd really try to do something spectacular, you know? Like, I like the idea of risk-taking, and to not always playing it safe, right?
00:48:55.190 --> 00:48:55.560 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right.
00:48:55.770 --> 00:49:10.399 Daniel McQueen: You know, so… but that doesn't mean we don't… we can't do it from a really grounded, deliberate space, so… Absolutely. You know, so those are my thoughts. And as far as, like, 4 weeks goes, like, you know, with cannabis, you could do a once-a-week journey. They don't have to be that long.
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:23.109 Daniel McQueen: You can step back into it, and go into it, and then if you're really thinking long-term, you know, like, get training, like, education, read books about it, learn about meditation, and…
00:49:23.340 --> 00:49:26.020 Daniel McQueen: You know, cultivate an ongoing practice.
00:49:26.490 --> 00:49:33.870 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely. I think this work goes so well, lends itself so well to an ongoing meditation practice.
00:49:34.470 --> 00:49:46.539 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Oh, 100%. I know me stepping into this work, into this training with you, shifted my meditation practice in a way that was completely unexpected. I was like, whoa.
00:49:46.540 --> 00:49:48.919 Daniel McQueen: What did you notice, Siobhan? Yeah, what did you notice?
00:49:48.920 --> 00:50:01.049 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I didn't know how much deeper it could go. I mean, I'm a student of Tantra Yoga, I had done 5 years of training, and cannabis just, like, dropped me in even deeper.
00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:04.479 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. You know, and I was like, oh.
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:05.200 Daniel McQueen: Yo.
00:50:05.200 --> 00:50:05.760 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:20.640 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, so that's, like, that's a reflection of you, in a way, right? Because people with a meditation or therapy practice, they say, after I did this journey, everything opened up again. Everything deepened. I'm in another level of my journey.
00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:32.850 Daniel McQueen: And so that's really a reflection of you as well, and that you had the, you know, the foundation to deepen with the cannabis. But, you know, Tantra and cannabis, I mean, it's like, it goes way back. Cannabis has been…
00:50:32.850 --> 00:50:33.880 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, those two go together.
00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:37.360 Daniel McQueen: You know, Chinese traditions for a long time, yeah.
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:49.249 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely, absolutely. All right, and some micro practices I think of for, like, leaders and some of the clients that I've worked with is, like, having a morning
00:50:49.330 --> 00:50:57.759 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Intention-setting practice, having a way to kind of drop back in throughout the day and to…
00:51:00.330 --> 00:51:07.200 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Mini mindfulness pauses, those kinds of things, gentle breathwork, where you just come back to the breath.
00:51:07.370 --> 00:51:22.519 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: come back to who you are, self-compassion throughout the day instead of beating yourself up, that kind of thing. I think all of those things for leaders can be, indispensable. Yeah. Especially once they've stepped into this work as well.
00:51:22.520 --> 00:51:33.800 Daniel McQueen: Yeah. You know, I read recently, I was listening to a leader, you know, talk about this, and one of the things that I'm really sitting with in my own practice is, like, how do I want to show up?
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:57.380 Daniel McQueen: not what do I want to say, or what do I want to do, but how do I want to show up in this dynamic, or relationship, or friendship? And that's been something I've really been sitting with, you know, as part of my practice. So, yeah, I agree, like, returning to remembering in these little ways. Again, it's not about that one big experience anymore. Throw away that idea of psychedelic journey, that one time.
00:51:57.400 --> 00:52:07.050 Daniel McQueen: mushroom experience in your whole life is different. It needs to be an ongoing practice, and those micro intentions, I think, are really essential.
00:52:07.050 --> 00:52:10.700 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: They move us along. They really do. Absolutely.
00:52:11.380 --> 00:52:18.550 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What would be some of your final thoughts as we wrap up this conversation, Daniel?
00:52:19.560 --> 00:52:32.119 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, great. You know, one of the things I'd just like to say is we have everything we need, we just forget to ask and to turn towards it. And so, you know, to… if you can, find that courageous moment to
00:52:32.120 --> 00:52:51.370 Daniel McQueen: Consider possibilities, consider our bigness, and live into our potential. And that, like, the universe reflects back when we do that. There's something about, like, I've had to take a lot of chances in the last 14 years doing this work, bringing cannabis in. It's not always been easy.
00:52:51.370 --> 00:53:10.039 Daniel McQueen: But every time I've taken big steps, something has met me and supported me in that. But I was required to take that first leap, I think. Right. And it gets easier in some ways, but at the same time, it doesn't, because the steps just get bigger, too, so…
00:53:10.040 --> 00:53:12.990 Daniel McQueen: Maybe we get more used to it, or something like that.
00:53:13.010 --> 00:53:16.850 Daniel McQueen: But the other thing is community, right? Like.
00:53:16.850 --> 00:53:25.339 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Do this in community. That's where the magic happens. It's way easier to sit on the mountaintop alone and meditate and reach enlightenment, but if you can do…
00:53:25.340 --> 00:53:49.409 Daniel McQueen: if you can, you know, like, how do I want to be, right? Like, and again, I am no way perfect in any of these ways, right? So, acceptance is really important, but acceptance with striving, right? Like, what does that look like? And, and so, for me, growth edges are community. And as you say, the world is a little crazy right now, so, like, how do… how do we, you know, we can use these medicines to…
00:53:49.520 --> 00:53:57.330 Daniel McQueen: heal the risks between our peoples, right, and, between people, and I think that's really one of the
00:53:57.770 --> 00:54:07.399 Daniel McQueen: Most important areas that we can focus on as healers and leaders is how do we bring people together in these really weird, hard times, you know?
00:54:08.050 --> 00:54:18.209 Daniel McQueen: And to not… not buy into the psychosis that's occurring in the… in politics right now, you know, like, there's… we're way bigger than that, you know, so…
00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:21.649 Daniel McQueen: So those are maybe a few thoughts there, you know.
00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:24.529 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yes, we are way bigger than that.
00:54:24.720 --> 00:54:25.780 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Very true.
00:54:25.780 --> 00:54:35.160 Daniel McQueen: we just forget, we give our power away, right? So, psychedelics, cannabis too, it's about reclaiming our agency, reclaiming our power, within community.
00:54:35.160 --> 00:54:36.990 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely, absolutely. Woo!
00:54:37.190 --> 00:54:46.589 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Wonderful. On that note, thank you so much, Daniel, for coming on, having this powerful and grounded conversation with me.
00:54:47.890 --> 00:54:54.660 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Are there ways that the audience can reach out if they want to either step into this work
00:54:55.100 --> 00:54:58.620 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: From the training side, or get more information.
00:54:59.190 --> 00:55:17.459 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, we have a training program, and we teach people how to be guides, and we also have a clinic here in Boulder where we work with cannabis, which is lovely, and so grateful for it, but we also work with ketamine. And then in Colorado, it's legal now to work with psilocybin mushrooms.
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:26.469 Daniel McQueen: and DMT, so we work with four medicines at the center. So if you're just curious and you want to explore, you don't know how to start, you can always contact us.
00:55:26.470 --> 00:55:35.870 Daniel McQueen: Medicinalmindfulness.org is one of our main websites, and that'll lead you to all the other ones as well, so I would… I'll just leave it at that. And then,
00:55:35.870 --> 00:55:50.780 Daniel McQueen: you know, come for a visit, and if you're real serious, like, again, this… you don't have to be a guide to be a game, you know, like a world changer, right? So, these skill sets, our training is really for those who are ready to be transformers in the world, so…
00:55:50.780 --> 00:56:05.629 Daniel McQueen: Just like yourself, and, like, the world really needs it, right? So, especially East Coast and where you live, right? So, so we're all about really paying it forward and, and, helping people grow in these areas.
00:56:05.870 --> 00:56:13.389 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Wonderful. I'm excited because Maryland may be joining Colorado in legalizing psychedelics.
00:56:13.390 --> 00:56:14.460 Daniel McQueen: That's great.
00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:22.879 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: FORC has spoken and turned in what their findings and recommendations are, and we just have to wait for next year's.
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:26.430 Daniel McQueen: Mushrooms, too? I mean, just mushrooms, or other medicines, too?
00:56:26.430 --> 00:56:29.409 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: All the, all the natural occurring psychedelics.
00:56:29.410 --> 00:56:32.950 Daniel McQueen: No shit, that's great. Sorry, I don't mean to cut off.
00:56:32.950 --> 00:56:33.650 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: You can!
00:56:33.650 --> 00:56:40.629 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, that's really great. No, everybody, the movement, the revolution is happening, even.
00:56:40.630 --> 00:56:41.099 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: evolution is.
00:56:41.100 --> 00:56:46.530 Daniel McQueen: You know, it's, it's transforming the world right now, so that's really great. Yeah.
00:56:46.530 --> 00:56:50.990 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So we're, we're… fingers crossed that by summer, we'll know… we'll know the answer.
00:56:51.430 --> 00:56:56.690 Daniel McQueen: Yeah, that's great. That's good. I hadn't heard that yet with Marilyn, so good, good, good news, yeah.
00:56:56.690 --> 00:57:03.080 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It is, indeed. So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Tell everyone out there I said hello, and…
00:57:03.080 --> 00:57:03.720 Daniel McQueen: Sure.
00:57:03.720 --> 00:57:23.700 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Audience, thank you for joining us on this, episode of the Expansion Room, and if you want to continue the conversation, you can come and join us on our online community, The Expansion Room, which is housed on the Circle platform, so we can continue this talk.
00:57:23.700 --> 00:57:32.919 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Until next time, on next Wednesday, 5pm, here on talkradio.nyc, I hope you all have a great week. Take care.
00:57:33.100 --> 00:57:34.210 Daniel McQueen: Thanks, everybody.
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