How do you think strategically when it feels like all you do is put out fires? It's a common challenge among all leaders a in this episode, we'll be learning about how to tackle this from a very unlikely and different perspective: someone who teaches frameworks to military leaders who manage geopolitical crises that can help you build a stronger workplace culture, lead through disruption, and stop feeling so reactive.
When disruption becomes the new normal, from AI upheaval to geopolitical instability to constant organizational change, it’s easy for leaders to lose sight of workplace culture and long-term strategy. In this episode, Dr. Jill Goldenziel brings an unexpected lens to understanding workplace leadership: lessons from teaching colonels, generals, and senior government officials as a full professor at the National Defense University. You’ll learn how to think like a strategist, how to build trust and calm in chaos and how to align people around purpose in times of change. She will also discuss why most leaders are thinking about AI wrong and what that means for workplace culture.
This conversation is for leaders who are tired of feeling reactive, who want to move from firefighting to strategic thinking, and who need practical tools to lead their teams through disruption without losing what makes leadership human.
She also she also shares her own leadership journey of getting promoted to be the only female full professor at Marine Corps University and being a civilian working in a male-dominated, leadership-focused organization, and teaching strategy to military and government leaders in the context of cyber, information, and disruptive tech like AI.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Jill Goldenziel is a leadership coach, speaker, and strategic advisor who helps executives lead smarter in a world on fire. As CEO of JG Strategy, she equips business, government, and military leaders to manage risk and turn global disruption into competitive advantage. She is a professor at the National Defense University, a Fellow at the Fox Leadership International Program at the University of Pennsylvania, and columnist for Forbes and Bloomberg Opinion. Dr. Goldenziel is a recognized expert on leadership, law, geopolitical risk, and disruptive tech whose insights have shaped decision-making across Fortune 500 companies, law firms, and US and allied militaries. She is a Life Member of the Council on Foreign Relations. ***Dr. Goldenziel is speaking in her personal capacity. Her views are her own and do not necessarily represent those of her University, the Department of Defense, or any other arm of the US Government.***
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FIND OUR GUEST HERE:
Website: www.jillgoldenziel.com
Jill's Newsletter The Strategic Lead: bit.ly/jillnewsletter
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jillgoldenziel/
Twitter: @JillGoldenziel twitter.com/JillGoldenziel
Instagram: @JillGoldenziel instagram.com/JillGoldenziel
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Bluesky: @JillGoldenziel bsky.app/profile/jillgoldenziel.bsky.social
Threads: @JillGoldenziel www.threads.com/@jillgoldenziel
Youtube: @JillGoldenzielStrategy www.youtube.com/channel/UCGpU8acgBZZb6o3L6yFBWhg
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In the opening segment, Dr. Mira Brancu introduces guest Dr. Jill Goldenziel and discusses Jill's background, including her family's long history in law and her transition from practicing law to teaching at Marine Corps University. Jill explained her work on lawfare and her experience as one of the few female professors at the institution. They both touch on the importance of strategic thinking in leadership and how military frameworks can be applied to business and other fields. Jill shares insights from her work with military leaders and her approach to helping executives navigate global uncertainty.
In the second segment, Jill shares with us her experience as a PhD holder integrating into a Marine team, initially facing challenges but eventually becoming accepted and valued for her unique perspective. She highlights the importance of Socratic questioning and strategic thinking in military contexts, noting that military leaders often lack time for conceptual thinking due to their high operational tempo. Mira emphasizes the translational value of these skills for civilian leaders facing similar pressures, and the show will explore further insights into strategic thinking and leadership development.
In this segment, Jill and Mira discuss the importance of practicing strategic thinking and scenario planning through techniques like red teaming and wargaming. Jill explained that red teaming involves critiquing ideas from different perspectives, while wargaming involves creating competitive scenarios with multiple sides negotiating or competing. They both agree that these practices help generate ideas, identify weaknesses, and prepare for potential disruptions.
In this closing segment, Jill discusses the role of AI in strategic thinking, noting that while AI can serve as a "devil's advocate" or red team, it cannot fully replace human judgment, particularly in complex scenarios involving emotional intelligence and life-or-death decisions. She shares insights from military experience about maintaining calm during chaos, which she applied to civilian leadership contexts. Jill emphasizes the importance of having clear strategic goals and the ability to adapt plans while maintaining focus on long-term objectives, even in rapidly changing environments. She also highlights the growing need for businesses to consider geopolitical risks and international developments, as these can significantly impact operations regardless of a company's scope.
00:00:52.110 --> 00:00:59.429 Mira Brancu: Welcome, welcome to The Hard Skills. Today, we are talking about something every leader I work with struggles with.
00:00:59.770 --> 00:01:07.990 Mira Brancu: How do you think strategically when it feels like everything you do is on fire.
00:01:08.210 --> 00:01:16.210 Mira Brancu: Or, you're just putting out fires constantly. It just, like, feels like the world is on fire, and you're just putting them out, and you're putting them out.
00:01:16.340 --> 00:01:20.400 Mira Brancu: And all you want to do, all you want to do is think strategically, right?
00:01:21.190 --> 00:01:27.370 Mira Brancu: And we're gonna learn this from an unexpected perspective that I'm super excited about.
00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:32.740 Mira Brancu: Frameworks that military leaders use to manage geopolitical crises.
00:01:33.080 --> 00:01:52.230 Mira Brancu: that can help you build a stronger workplace culture, lead through disruption, and feel less reactive. So, let me introduce our guest, Dr. Jill Goldenziel. She is a leadership coach, speaker, and strategic advisor who helps executives lead smarter in a world on fire.
00:01:52.450 --> 00:02:04.159 Mira Brancu: As CEO of JG Strategy, she equips business, government, and military leaders to manage risk and turn global disruption into competitive advantage.
00:02:04.250 --> 00:02:13.529 Mira Brancu: She's a professor at National Defense University, a fellow at the Fox Leadership International Program at the University of Pennsylvania.
00:02:13.890 --> 00:02:17.669 Mira Brancu: and columnist for Forbes and Bloomberg Opinion.
00:02:17.990 --> 00:02:21.740 Mira Brancu: She's also a life member of the Council on Foreign Relations.
00:02:22.070 --> 00:02:36.789 Mira Brancu: She has advised companies and governments on international and constitutional law, information and cyber warfare, lawfare, we'll find out what that is later, political and regulatory risk, and so much more.
00:02:37.060 --> 00:02:52.450 Mira Brancu: And her audiences have included 193 UN member states, Congress, military leaders from over 80 countries, and corporate teams looking to make smarter decisions in the face of global uncertainty.
00:02:52.770 --> 00:03:09.990 Mira Brancu: Now, with all of that wealth of information, we do want to make a note here that Dr. Goldenzeal is speaking in her personal capacity. Her views are her own and do not necessarily represent those of her university, the Department of Defense, or any other arm of the U.S. government.
00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:17.910 Mira Brancu: So, that's an important disclaimer. I used to say that when I used to work for the government, too. All right, so welcome, Jill, to the show.
00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:21.260 Jill Goldenziel: Thank you, Mayor, for having me. It's really great to be here.
00:03:21.630 --> 00:03:31.819 Mira Brancu: Yeah, super excited to have you. So, let's just start with how you got into, this kind of work. You know, you got into law, and then what?
00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:45.219 Jill Goldenziel: So, I am a fourth-generation lawyer. I… my family has, and still has a firm in Scranton, Pennsylvania, since the turn of the last century.
00:03:45.220 --> 00:04:00.820 Jill Goldenziel: And so I always knew that I wanted to be a lawyer, and I got to college and started doing my independent academic work, writing long papers, delving into research, and I discovered, wow, I really love this too.
00:04:00.820 --> 00:04:17.919 Jill Goldenziel: So, I looked around me, and I talked to all of the people who were my mentors, who all worked on law in some way, and I realized, first of all, that they were all very connected in the real world, which is where I wanted to be. And I realized that it was probably not a coincidence that I chose these people as my mentors.
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.529 Jill Goldenziel: And they all agreed on one thing, which academics never agree on anything.
00:04:21.529 --> 00:04:37.260 Jill Goldenziel: Which is that if you wanted to get a JD-PhD, you should go to law school first, because a PhD is a long slog, and you need to make sure that you, A, want to do it, and B, also have a degree that enables you to support yourself if you should need that.
00:04:37.260 --> 00:04:41.779 Jill Goldenziel: And, so I took their advice, figuring if that many academics agreed, it must be truth.
00:04:41.780 --> 00:04:51.939 Jill Goldenziel: And, ended up practicing law for a couple of years, and during which, they're pretty consequential, actually. I went to Israel for a year after college.
00:04:51.940 --> 00:05:10.829 Jill Goldenziel: Second of FDA happened, came back to New York, and six weeks later, 9-11 happened. And so that, pushed me from constitutional law, where I was, more into international law, and into really wanting to make a difference in the policy space, because it was clear that everything was changing in the world of chaos and geopolitical risk.
00:05:11.060 --> 00:05:29.289 Jill Goldenziel: went to Harvard for grad school and, ended up at a place that I never expected. I was laughing internally when you said this was a surprising perspective, because it's a perspective that surprised me, to expect me to have. I was, I…
00:05:29.380 --> 00:05:35.169 Jill Goldenziel: went through grad school at Harvard, taught at the law school and the college for a while, and then moved over to the Belfer Center, which is
00:05:35.170 --> 00:05:49.460 Jill Goldenziel: an internal think tank at the Harvard Kennedy School, and a job came over the listserv for Marine Corps University, which I had never heard of. But I had certainly heard of the Marine Corps, and one of my closest friends in grad school was a Marine.
00:05:49.490 --> 00:06:08.239 Jill Goldenziel: And I knew that, I could work for the Corps, based on all of my, long conversations with him about nation building, and how he found the work so meaningful, and his most meaningful nation building was the most meaningful work he had ever done, no matter how dangerous it was. Brotherhood was so strong.
00:06:08.260 --> 00:06:23.889 Jill Goldenziel: And I just knew the Marines would appreciate me. They would appreciate the intellectual rigor, but also the crazy side, and certainly the physical fitness that I find to be so important. And so, I wanted to do policy-relevant academic work since I was 20,
00:06:24.660 --> 00:06:41.049 Jill Goldenziel: I thought this is a chance to do it in my teaching every single day, and the Marines hired a refugee expert to teach the law of war, and the rest is history. Almost 10 years later, I am still in professional military education. Marines left a,
00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:57.780 Jill Goldenziel: left their mark on me. I like to think I left somewhat of a mark on them as well. And, we celebrated their belated birthday today at the National Defense University. They rescheduled it so that we could all be there after the furlough, which was phenomenal of them. And,
00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:07.950 Jill Goldenziel: And here I am now, teaching senior military officers and senior U.S. civilians, foreign military officers, cyber and information strategy.
00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.719 Jill Goldenziel: And law… lawfare, as well.
00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:19.620 Mira Brancu: Amazing, okay, okay. So, first of all, yes, happy birthday to Marines, belated, 250 years. So…
00:07:20.540 --> 00:07:34.860 Mira Brancu: first of all, I can't imagine the kind of conversations you all had at the dinner table if everybody in your family… it's like four generations of law. There's probably a lot of debating.
00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:42.690 Jill Goldenziel: A lot of debating. I mean, my dad was a trial lawyer, and I, I grew up literally playing with his jury exhibits.
00:07:43.330 --> 00:07:52.610 Jill Goldenziel: And, certainly the old ones, but sometimes they had to keep me off of them during… during the course of a… of a trial, and I just never… he… he would…
00:07:52.660 --> 00:08:05.050 Jill Goldenziel: murder board or moot, whatever you want to call… choose your preferred term, his arguments at the dinner table with… with me and my mom. And if we could poke holes in them, we could… we could spot the…
00:08:05.150 --> 00:08:15.220 Jill Goldenziel: the holes in them, then, you know, maybe the jury could too, or the other side could as well. And I just really never found anything as fascinating as that.
00:08:15.550 --> 00:08:25.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I mean, what great training for the law field. You mentioned lawfare. I promised our audience that you would define it, so what is lawfare?
00:08:26.030 --> 00:08:34.210 Jill Goldenziel: Law… lawfare is law… using law as a tool of strategy, or as a weapon of war.
00:08:34.210 --> 00:08:51.379 Jill Goldenziel: And in short, what that means is using law to achieve what might otherwise be achieved through a… through kinetic military means, or for a strategic purpose to achieve a strategic goal. I have a more technical definition, but that's the
00:08:51.380 --> 00:08:56.020 Jill Goldenziel: Law as a Weapon of War is the catchier one that people tend to remember.
00:08:56.250 --> 00:08:58.960 Mira Brancu: Yeah, fascinating. Well…
00:08:59.180 --> 00:09:03.180 Mira Brancu: I know we can go down that road on a different podcast, but not on the.
00:09:03.180 --> 00:09:03.850 Jill Goldenziel: this one.
00:09:03.850 --> 00:09:09.779 Mira Brancu: We're gonna go back to You, you mentioned, You know, there's…
00:09:10.020 --> 00:09:17.870 Mira Brancu: a lot that you learned from your 20, you know, year experience with the Marine Corps University and teaching Marines
00:09:17.970 --> 00:09:24.920 Mira Brancu: And hope, you know, hoping that they've picked up something from you as well. So I'd love to hear, kind of, like.
00:09:25.680 --> 00:09:34.479 Mira Brancu: what has your experience been? I know one of the, you know, experiences is that you were the only female full professor
00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:46.639 Mira Brancu: at Marine Corps University, and you're also civilian, working among a male-dominated, leadership-focused organization. So let's just start there. What was that experience like?
00:09:47.930 --> 00:10:07.849 Jill Goldenziel: It took some getting used to, for sure. But the amazing thing about it is that the Marines are so good at team building, and so good at absorbing people, that once we, I would say, got used to each other, both they got used to the fact that
00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:23.830 Jill Goldenziel: I had a PhD in a very different background, but was really genuinely wanted to learn. And, I got used to the… adjusting to a different language and a different culture.
00:10:24.400 --> 00:10:36.099 Jill Goldenziel: I became part of the team, that was assumed. Trust was really mine to lose from the beginning, and then it took probably a couple of years.
00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:37.160 Jill Goldenziel: But…
00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:45.299 Jill Goldenziel: we got from the point where I would walk into a room and immediately become keenly aware that I was the only woman in it.
00:10:45.470 --> 00:10:51.249 Jill Goldenziel: To my not realizing I was only the only woman in the room until I had walked out of it.
00:10:51.410 --> 00:10:54.150 Jill Goldenziel: And that was just because I…
00:10:54.260 --> 00:11:00.069 Jill Goldenziel: was there for long enough that I had gained a certain amount of respect and was seen as… was seen as part of the team.
00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:08.429 Mira Brancu: Incredible. And so then, what did you realize you could teach them?
00:11:10.710 --> 00:11:25.439 Jill Goldenziel: I realized how important it was to have somebody around in the classroom and teaching who comes from a very different perspective, and also how important to them it was
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:39.110 Jill Goldenziel: to avoid groupthink, because they realized, and I think certainly after… in the… those who had served, really, in the… in the war on terror, realized that
00:11:39.280 --> 00:11:40.710 Jill Goldenziel: groupthink.
00:11:40.950 --> 00:11:49.180 Jill Goldenziel: Could cause a lot of problems, and they would have been better off bringing in people who had very different perspectives.
00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:50.270 Jill Goldenziel: And…
00:11:50.380 --> 00:12:09.999 Jill Goldenziel: as long as I approached the classroom with genuine curiosity for them, and mutual respect for them and their experiences, despite the fact that I chose to spend, you know, my 20s and 30s in a very different way than the military officers that I was teaching.
00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:14.820 Jill Goldenziel: We were able to learn from each other.
00:12:14.970 --> 00:12:24.929 Jill Goldenziel: I also really, I think, help them break down certain stereotypes, and I would, I would often, you know, address them head on.
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:39.080 Jill Goldenziel: the classroom training of really being able to moderate a discussion without… and ask Socratic questions without injecting one's views into a conversation.
00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:53.579 Jill Goldenziel: was extremely valued by them in ways I really didn't understand until afterwards. I don't think I realized how much they were getting from it until…
00:12:53.790 --> 00:13:06.750 Jill Goldenziel: Probably about a year in when I really started getting feedback from my former students about how much they… how much they gained from the class, and how much they gained from just having a vastly different perspective.
00:13:07.230 --> 00:13:14.800 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Can you say more about the Socratic questioning, and how that… how different that was from what they were used to, and why it was so valuable to them?
00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:30.919 Jill Goldenziel: Well, I think, first of all, they're just so busy operationally. Their operational tempo, or off-tempo, as they call it, is so high when they're in the fleet that they just really don't have time to think about concepts from
00:13:31.300 --> 00:13:36.899 Jill Goldenziel: the 40,000 foot level, which of course is all we do in the ivory. They didn't really have the chance
00:13:36.930 --> 00:13:42.980 Jill Goldenziel: to step back in their careers. And these were… my students at that time were majors, they were about
00:13:42.980 --> 00:14:04.449 Jill Goldenziel: you know, late 30s, mid to late 30s, let's say, and they really hadn't had the time in their careers to step back and think about, you know, what they were doing, and what was happening at the strategic level in… at the really political level, that was really driving what they were doing operationally during the war on terror, and why.
00:14:04.450 --> 00:14:18.140 Jill Goldenziel: And there tends to be a stereotype that they're just… the military's just disinterested in this. They're not disinterested in this. It's that they're deploying every 3 months, and they… they're doing workups for deployment in the 3 months before they're deploying every 3 months, and they can't
00:14:18.140 --> 00:14:21.959 Jill Goldenziel: Necessarily take the… take the time for that.
00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:38.960 Jill Goldenziel: So, really being able to unpack views that they had had or developed while they were deployed abroad was very, very new for them, but also welcome for them, because they certainly had questions.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:43.500 Jill Goldenziel: About what they were doing that they didn't have the time to dig for answers for.
00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:47.170 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I, I think that that is a,
00:14:47.640 --> 00:14:56.260 Mira Brancu: Just really great way to think about some of the translational stuff that we'll be talking about, later on in the show.
00:14:56.590 --> 00:15:00.890 Mira Brancu: is… You know, all leaders are…
00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:13.199 Mira Brancu: Under high pressure, and, frazzled, and, managing competing demands, and stretched thin, and little time to slow down and think
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:22.949 Mira Brancu: with those kind of skill sets, like Socratic questions, right? And where you're, like, taking a step back and getting a broader perspective, for example.
00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:40.620 Mira Brancu: And, if military leaders can do it and learn it, so can you. So, we're gonna get into it in a little bit. We are nearing an ad break, so you're listening to the Hard Skills with me, Dr. Mira Brancou, and our guest today, Dr. Jill Goldenzeal.
00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:48.449 Mira Brancu: The Hard Skills is sponsored by Towerscope, my leadership and team development consulting firm. Learn more about it at gotowerscope.com.
00:15:48.450 --> 00:15:55.890 Mira Brancu: The Hard Skills Show itself livestreams on Tuesdays at 5pm Eastern Time on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, Twitch, and all over the place.
00:15:55.890 --> 00:16:12.970 Mira Brancu: through talkradio.nyc, and if you are here right now at, you know, between 5 and 6 p.m. Eastern on a Tuesday, you can also leave us messages or questions or comments, and we will respond live to you, okay? We will be right back with our guests in just a moment.
00:17:54.340 --> 00:18:02.050 Mira Brancu: Welcome, welcome back to The Hard Skills with me, Dr. Mira Brancou, and our guest, Dr. Jill Goldenzeal. So…
00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:04.140 Mira Brancu: Let's get to the meat of it.
00:18:05.170 --> 00:18:18.290 Mira Brancu: I think… I do think that, military leaders, and especially the Marines, are exceptional at developing teams.
00:18:18.510 --> 00:18:28.360 Mira Brancu: and leadership, right? They're focused on that, continuously, and so there's just so much that we could learn from their experiences, so…
00:18:28.530 --> 00:18:36.810 Mira Brancu: I would love to hear what is it that military leaders, especially senior military leaders, understand about strategic thinking?
00:18:37.290 --> 00:18:40.810 Mira Brancu: During times of chaos and upheaval and uncertainty.
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:43.130 Mira Brancu: That the rest of us do not.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:53.700 Jill Goldenziel: So many things. So, first of all, I think most people don't understand the importance of
00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:55.829 Jill Goldenziel: And the focus of…
00:18:56.690 --> 00:19:07.540 Jill Goldenziel: education… focus on education and planning in the military. So you asked during, but I can't separate that from what happens before. So…
00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:17.739 Jill Goldenziel: Most people don't realize that our service members go to school every few years, and they have continuing education programs and requirements throughout.
00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:25.490 Jill Goldenziel: And they have continuing education programs. There are also, then, in-person master's degree programs.
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:45.609 Jill Goldenziel: that some of them are selected for, and if they're selected for an in-person master's degree program at Command and Staff, or at the War College level, like I teach at now at the National Defense University, it's usually because they're being fast-tracked for some sort of leadership opportunity later. And then there are other opportunities, besides the year-long
00:19:45.610 --> 00:19:47.930 Jill Goldenziel: You're away from the service that… that…
00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:59.649 Jill Goldenziel: you may be lucky enough to get if you, if you do the master's programs. And I know a number of Marines who also have master's degrees from the Naval Postgraduate School. Most people don't realize that all of
00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:08.880 Jill Goldenziel: our general officers have master's degrees from four colleges, as well. All of them, every single one. It's a prerequisite to be a general. So…
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:18.259 Jill Goldenziel: They understand, first of all, that it is really important every few years to be able to take that break, to look at
00:20:18.260 --> 00:20:29.669 Jill Goldenziel: what they're doing from the 40,000-foot view, and to be able to, first of all, understand what's going on at the strategic level, but secondly, these are… a lot of these are planning schools. We teach planning at
00:20:29.730 --> 00:20:39.209 Jill Goldenziel: at each of these schools, which was something that was very, very new to me. I mean, the military faculty that tend to teach planning, but the civilians are very much involved. And,
00:20:40.450 --> 00:20:58.669 Jill Goldenziel: you know, you… you can't, not… you can't plan for everything, but the DoD certainly tries. DOD has plans on the shelf for just about every single agency, and baked into that planning process is the second thing I was going to mention, which is
00:20:58.870 --> 00:21:18.010 Jill Goldenziel: wargaming, or red teaming, or comparing your options for various plans. Generally, all of those things together. Really working on a problem and then playing it out against a thinking adversary played by members of… members of your community, but also
00:21:18.340 --> 00:21:41.600 Jill Goldenziel: they understand very much that it's important to have, you know, anthropologists, political scientists, refugee experts, lawyers, civilians who don't know anything about the military playing members of the red team, or participating in a war game in order to shoot holes in a plan. And this is something they've always done, but it's become increasingly important in recent years.
00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:47.660 Jill Goldenziel: And I don't think civilian organizations really understand this, that this is…
00:21:47.740 --> 00:22:01.010 Jill Goldenziel: As well. And, you know, no… you… there's, expletives involved in the way that the military says it, so I'll say it the way that Mike Tyson says it, which is, you know, any plan is great unless… until you get punched in the mouth, or something like that. And,
00:22:01.010 --> 00:22:09.089 Jill Goldenziel: the, and, like, this is true, right? You can't plan for everything, but if you've been through every iteration of a plan.
00:22:09.090 --> 00:22:18.600 Jill Goldenziel: The more iterations you go through, the easier it becomes to adjust in a moment when things get difficult.
00:22:18.830 --> 00:22:36.430 Jill Goldenziel: Military is also great about having lots of processes for everything. Unfortunately, this creates bureaucracy, and sometimes it can get frustrating, and sometimes there are just too many acronyms, but when you have so many processes in place, and really menus of them to draw from.
00:22:36.430 --> 00:22:55.529 Jill Goldenziel: then when you're faced with a crisis, and you have a million fires that you need to put out, you can more easily pull back, rely on that framework, rely on first principles, rely on your framework for who does what within an organization to really be able to pull apart that problem and put out that fire quickly. And not only that.
00:22:55.530 --> 00:23:00.120 Jill Goldenziel: Be able to focus on the overall intent and long-term goals.
00:23:01.010 --> 00:23:09.500 Mira Brancu: Yeah, and what I'm hearing, in all of this is that, the more you practice.
00:23:09.860 --> 00:23:23.250 Mira Brancu: and learn from what you're practicing, and also get lots of input from diverse perspectives who, you know, can poke holes, so you can consistently revise, revise. The more your…
00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:36.460 Mira Brancu: ready for lots of different scenarios without having to become overwhelmed, which most of us do, right? Like, when you haven't practiced all of the different scenarios.
00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:39.050 Mira Brancu: Our emotions,
00:23:39.310 --> 00:23:51.390 Mira Brancu: Our anxiety, our reactions, our stress level overwhelm our ability to think through the different options, because we haven't had enough practice to make it a little bit more natural for us.
00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:53.989 Mira Brancu: Would you say that that applies?
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:57.349 Jill Goldenziel: Absolutely, and you… you start to…
00:23:57.600 --> 00:24:22.529 Jill Goldenziel: I mean, it's like playing a sporting event over and over again. Like, you can practice, practice, practice, you're not necessarily going to be ready for what happens on game day, but the more that you play on… the more that you play your game against different teams in your league, you realize… you start to really understand what the options are for what teams will do in response to the moves that you've practiced, or what your team is used to, and you're operating well as a team, so then you
00:24:22.530 --> 00:24:28.390 Jill Goldenziel: You can understand how to respond whenever new scenarios, new plays pop up.
00:24:28.790 --> 00:24:33.940 Mira Brancu: Yeah, and the other thing that I'm hearing Also, in that connection with…
00:24:34.260 --> 00:24:40.170 Mira Brancu: How you work, you know, you practice, practice, practice on sports teams is…
00:24:40.320 --> 00:24:50.189 Mira Brancu: That you learn to overcome and not be bothered by, or take personally, mistakes or,
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:58.090 Mira Brancu: quote-unquote failures, or when, you know, other people point out what,
00:24:58.560 --> 00:25:17.089 Mira Brancu: doesn't work. Most of us don't have that kind of thick skin. Most of us get defensive, most of us will bristle, most of us will not even invite, people to look at how we're doing something and give us feedback, because we're so afraid of
00:25:17.130 --> 00:25:26.590 Mira Brancu: getting that feedback, but in fact, that's shooting ourselves in the foot. It's really sabotaging. And, we can learn a lot from that, like.
00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:36.319 Mira Brancu: Leaning into just Learning and iterating, and, that it's just a continuous improvement process, really.
00:25:37.030 --> 00:25:53.699 Jill Goldenziel: when being shot down, not literally, is part of the process, you begin to take it as such, right? When having holes poked in your argument is part of the process, you learn to take it as such, and you also don't get as attached to
00:25:53.900 --> 00:26:05.749 Jill Goldenziel: Whatever… whatever plan it is you've come up with, because you realize that it can fail, and then you'll… what the real skill is, is being able to pivot and come up with a better one.
00:26:06.030 --> 00:26:11.830 Mira Brancu: Yeah, makes me think back, you know, to your story about sitting around the dinner table debating, is like.
00:26:11.830 --> 00:26:12.190 Jill Goldenziel: Yes.
00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:23.679 Mira Brancu: get used to getting your idea shot down and not taking it personally, but, like, engaging in the process from, like, a curious perspective to see where it takes you, right? So,
00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:28.580 Mira Brancu: Now, how… Can we translate this?
00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:32.770 Mira Brancu: to… Everyday,
00:26:33.490 --> 00:26:51.829 Mira Brancu: civilian leaders, right? Whether they're in organizations or they own their own business, they're not necessarily facing the kind of threats that military leaders are. But what can they sort of take from this and apply to their own role?
00:26:52.470 --> 00:27:04.989 Jill Goldenziel: I think that scenario planning, wargaming, whether or not they want to call it that, or, or red teaming is really something that can be incorporated into any organization.
00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:16.130 Jill Goldenziel: And the process of planning, developing multiple courses of action, comparing those courses of action is really something that… that can work for
00:27:16.130 --> 00:27:21.629 Jill Goldenziel: Almost any, you know, whether it's a program planning process, whether it's planning an offer, whether it's
00:27:21.630 --> 00:27:39.599 Jill Goldenziel: Just figuring out how some kind of event is going to work, and it's… it's extremely important and useful for being able to pivot when something goes wrong, and it also helps you… it helps you generate ideas for what you may want to do next, even if it's not something that… that applies.
00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:42.249 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I,
00:27:42.630 --> 00:27:56.870 Mira Brancu: in the beginning of, building my own business, I had an advisory team. They're not, like, a group of people that have been staying with me as my advisory board, but, like, just a team I pulled together.
00:27:57.010 --> 00:28:00.899 Mira Brancu: from different perspectives, and I,
00:28:01.320 --> 00:28:08.919 Mira Brancu: presented in front of them what my plan was and how I was thinking about it, and then I asked them to poke holes, and it was really hard, but it was…
00:28:09.170 --> 00:28:18.220 Mira Brancu: So useful just that one time that it probably took me for, you know, the next 7 years, to work through all of the things that they recommended, and
00:28:18.630 --> 00:28:37.800 Mira Brancu: I think I need to do it again, now that you're saying… now that you're describing how, like, it's really good to keep practicing. Tell us about, for those who aren't familiar, and I think you kind of described it, but I want to double check, red teaming, wargaming. What are they, and, how do they look different?
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:45.220 Jill Goldenziel: Red teaming is really having a… it could be… it's a term that is…
00:28:45.510 --> 00:28:55.420 Jill Goldenziel: very… it's used loosely in a variety of contexts. It could be used to, like, play the bad guy or the red cell in a planning exercise.
00:28:55.420 --> 00:29:11.160 Jill Goldenziel: And it can be used more loosely to just have a group of people really picking apart your ideas, as you go through any particular planning process, or to figure out ways to… to disrupt it.
00:29:11.230 --> 00:29:23.139 Jill Goldenziel: And then wargaming is actually coming up with a plan, or a scenario, and having two sides play it out, or fight it out.
00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:24.690 Jill Goldenziel: So,
00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:48.149 Jill Goldenziel: the key to… and you can have various countries, you can… I've designed them for… I just designed one for a conference where we had, you know, China, the US, but we also had a Pacific island, and then we had a private sector team, and they had to negotiate over, a certain influence in a certain Pacific island, and of course, then the government had a…
00:29:48.520 --> 00:29:56.040 Jill Goldenziel: had a, the government of that island had their own equities and things that they wanted as well. And,
00:29:56.470 --> 00:30:15.900 Jill Goldenziel: So, it doesn't necessarily have to be just one side versus another. There can be various teams representing various interests, but the key is that you have some kind of competition and some kind of, you know, thinking adversary. Those are the key words, really. A thinking adversary who's going to respond to what you do, not just what you
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:21.429 Jill Goldenziel: Might not imagine they would do, but be able to respond and react to what your team does in real time.
00:30:21.700 --> 00:30:37.850 Mira Brancu: Got it, got it. Okay, so I think she's driving home this idea of, like, it is important and good to poke holes in your ideas, and try it lots of different ways, and practice, and think about it from different perspectives, and invite different perspectives.
00:30:37.850 --> 00:30:43.580 Mira Brancu: to give you feedback. So, we're reaching another ad break. When we come back, we are going to
00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:53.230 Mira Brancu: Look at, how new issues in the world today, like cyber and informatics and AI, is…
00:30:53.410 --> 00:31:06.509 Mira Brancu: causing us even more disruption, and what to do with that when we're trying to do some strategic thinking. So you're listening to The Hard Skills with me, Dr. Mira Brancou, and our guest today, Dr. Jill Goldenzeal, and we will be right back in just a moment.
00:32:46.050 --> 00:32:51.130 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills. Okay, Jill. So,
00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:57.799 Mira Brancu: Has anything changed about how the military is doing things now with
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:12.090 Mira Brancu: the education, the playing it out, the practicing, the poking holes, the, you know, bringing out diverse perspectives, the war games, the red teaming, with the, increasing
00:33:12.560 --> 00:33:18.940 Mira Brancu: online disruptions, like AI and, you know, cyber and informatics and things like that.
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:21.620 Jill Goldenziel: So, I can…
00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:30.949 Jill Goldenziel: really only speak to my corner of the world, I would say, which includes education, and then also the, some of the units that I advise and work with, and…
00:33:30.950 --> 00:33:55.429 Jill Goldenziel: mainly legal offices, I can't, I can't really speak to what the military is doing overall. I don't, I, I don't know what's going on with weapon systems, and that's probably a good thing. So, but I think that it's really similar to what's going on in the business world, quite honestly. We're figuring out how we can use it, and how we can use it safely, and as educators, we are…
00:33:55.780 --> 00:34:04.530 Jill Goldenziel: really trying to figure out what the best way to use it is to serve our students. And I don't think what we are dealing with at,
00:34:05.020 --> 00:34:21.079 Jill Goldenziel: I can't, you know, fully speak to everything that's going on in my college, because I think… I think we still have not quite, you know, figured it out yet. We have an AI policy, but I think that, I mean, my comments on it when it was written was this needs to be revisited every three months at the rate that technology is changing, so I don't think any
00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:28.699 Jill Goldenziel: Full decisions have been made, and instructors, as at most universities, have a certain amount of discretion as to what we could do, but the core question
00:34:28.699 --> 00:34:42.119 Jill Goldenziel: is how do we best serve our students? This isn't going away, right? It would be… I think it would be unrealistic to say, no, students can't use AI at all. In fact, my son's high school is doing that, and I don't…
00:34:42.120 --> 00:34:59.160 Jill Goldenziel: think it's necessarily a good thing. Like, I'm glad he's learning research skills without the use of AI. I imagine that could be really difficult to police at the high school level, but in… I don't want him to have no exposure to it either, because he's gonna go out into the world, and certainly in college, and
00:34:59.160 --> 00:35:10.099 Jill Goldenziel: Plenty of kids are, so I don't want him to be behind as we're all developing and learning this. And that's… then I look at my students, of course, who are not 15, but who are now in their 40s.
00:35:10.100 --> 00:35:17.969 Jill Goldenziel: And it's the same sort of question. It's like, okay, well, this is my… my one year of where they have, you know, in…
00:35:18.210 --> 00:35:27.030 Jill Goldenziel: person postgraduate education, some of them already have master's degrees, some of them don't, but this is a master's degree program. I am failing with them. I am failing them if I don't…
00:35:27.370 --> 00:35:30.900 Jill Goldenziel: Get them out of… school with
00:35:31.120 --> 00:35:34.729 Jill Goldenziel: research and writing skills. And if they can't write better.
00:35:34.940 --> 00:35:50.619 Jill Goldenziel: when they're come out than when they came in. At the same time, they're gonna go out and probably be able to use AI in their commands. So it's now an additional skill I have to teach as to what AI can do, what AI can't do.
00:35:51.050 --> 00:36:07.719 Jill Goldenziel: well, and it thinks it can do everything, that's part of the problem. So what AI can do well, and then make sure they have the critical thinking skills to be able to check it and make sure it's not hallucinating on some kind of big decision.
00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:09.730 Jill Goldenziel: So,
00:36:09.740 --> 00:36:24.990 Jill Goldenziel: And I think that's probably a microcosm of what's going on elsewhere in the military, but really in any other workplace worldwide, except the stakes are greater, right? If the military makes some kind of decision based on AI,
00:36:24.990 --> 00:36:36.689 Jill Goldenziel: Seeks could be greater for the world when, rather than the, you know, the lawyer who, who cites fake cases and puts it before a court and, and,
00:36:36.970 --> 00:36:49.740 Jill Goldenziel: you know, gets called out and perhaps has some kind of sanction against him. There's a much bigger… there's much more at risk if the military misuses it, so I just… I think the adjustment for me is
00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:53.980 Jill Goldenziel: how do I balance this? How do I help them learn
00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:03.729 Jill Goldenziel: the skills that they are going to need, in addition to everything else I have to teach.
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:12.610 Mira Brancu: Yeah, and so going back to then strategic thinking in, during a time of chaos and upheaval.
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:26.079 Mira Brancu: What is your current thinking, knowing that it could change in 3 months? What is your current thinking about how AI can help with strategic thinking, and how it could get in the way of strategic thinking?
00:37:26.910 --> 00:37:27.910 Jill Goldenziel: So…
00:37:28.490 --> 00:37:42.259 Jill Goldenziel: AI can be your… be your red team, or your first, you know, line of effort, I guess, I guess, with a red team, which is a lot of how I use it. I'll say, you know, I wrote this argument, poke holes in it.
00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:53.410 Jill Goldenziel: And, sometimes it does a better job than others, but, so that's something I think that can be very, very useful.
00:37:53.450 --> 00:38:05.209 Jill Goldenziel: But it doesn't, at the same time, replace independent human judgment, and as we've found out when running various scenarios, and it certainly doesn't understand, you know, military strategy.
00:38:05.210 --> 00:38:17.340 Jill Goldenziel: So, we can… you can put information into it, but it's not necessarily gonna understand how a certain maneuver might affect enemy actions. So…
00:38:17.340 --> 00:38:21.770 Jill Goldenziel: Yeah, it can be your, your, first…
00:38:22.170 --> 00:38:37.840 Jill Goldenziel: you know, you're devil's advocate, I guess I would say, more than your red team, but it's not necessarily going to understand your industry, it's not necessarily going to understand, you know, how your actual adversary would think.
00:38:37.930 --> 00:38:48.590 Jill Goldenziel: will it get there? Will we be able to, you know, will any industry be able to program it to think like us, or think like an adversary?
00:38:49.060 --> 00:38:49.950 Jill Goldenziel: I don't know.
00:38:50.150 --> 00:39:04.930 Jill Goldenziel: We… I mean, if you believe the, people who really believe in artificial general intelligence, then sure, but I am more skeptical, based on what I've seen, that it can really
00:39:05.080 --> 00:39:15.550 Jill Goldenziel: emulate human judgment. I certainly don't think it can emulate emotional intelligence, and I don't think it can weigh the trade-offs of
00:39:17.670 --> 00:39:27.090 Jill Goldenziel: Trade-offs involving loss of human life the way that a real commander or military officer, would.
00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:34.410 Mira Brancu: Hmm. Really great points. Yeah, yeah. So then, let's,
00:39:34.820 --> 00:39:43.400 Mira Brancu: Let's take a real-life scenario, just to… Bring some, you know.
00:39:43.990 --> 00:39:52.109 Mira Brancu: Kind of connection or relatedness to somebody who might not be in the military, but is in a leadership role.
00:39:52.400 --> 00:40:05.809 Mira Brancu: They are facing, you know, like, a situation where they're constantly putting out fires. Everything's changing, almost daily. They're trying so hard to be strategic.
00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:09.640 Mira Brancu: And yet… They feel like…
00:40:10.060 --> 00:40:20.479 Mira Brancu: every time they make a decision, something else happens, and they have to go back on it, right? And they're starting to feel like,
00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:27.660 Mira Brancu: what's the point? You know, like, throw my hands up, just put out the fires, that feels like…
00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:41.490 Mira Brancu: I have more control, right, than, long-term… thinking long-term, or, you know, thinking about, all of the scenarios. So I'm curious, what… what would you…
00:40:41.630 --> 00:40:49.410 Mira Brancu: Well, have you… Have you worked with leaders like that, and what have you seen as
00:40:49.630 --> 00:41:06.730 Mira Brancu: kind of, ways that they've been able to extract themselves from that and become more strategic thinkers. Or if you've seen kind of the opposite, when they've really struggled over and over, what were kind of, like, the common pitfalls?
00:41:08.290 --> 00:41:23.170 Jill Goldenziel: Yes. So, I think what it really comes back to is having a clear sense of what your overall intent is, and what your overall goal is, and then
00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:32.189 Jill Goldenziel: figuring out a way to progress towards that. So, if you're looking at the fires, you…
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:36.550 Jill Goldenziel: May not be looking at the right thing.
00:41:36.550 --> 00:41:51.360 Jill Goldenziel: What you need to be looking at is the way through the fires, or around the fires, or perhaps putting out the fires, but you have to figure out what the best way is to get to where you want to go.
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:57.139 Jill Goldenziel: And what that requires is really being able to take that step back
00:41:57.430 --> 00:42:05.370 Jill Goldenziel: And focus on what the overall goal is, and then figuring out the best way to get there.
00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:17.029 Jill Goldenziel: I'd say another thing that came to mind during the course of our conversation, and it can… I can bring it back to a very real-world example that everyone can relate to.
00:42:17.540 --> 00:42:22.360 Jill Goldenziel: Anyone who's ever been on a plane can relate to, which is that
00:42:22.510 --> 00:42:31.299 Jill Goldenziel: Marines have this cultural way of getting very calm at moments of chaos, and
00:42:31.580 --> 00:42:50.190 Jill Goldenziel: you know, I just noticed this over… over the course of time, and you just knew it was… it was going to… it's… it's the opposite of what anybody thinks it's gonna be, right? Because everybody imagines that there's, like, this crisis, and people are yelling and screaming at each other, and then, like, one general is barking orders, and everybody falls into line, or something like that.
00:42:50.430 --> 00:43:00.060 Jill Goldenziel: Instead, what happens when there's some kind of crisis and something goes really wrong is everybody gets really quiet, sometimes even, like, talking in a whisper, and slows down.
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:08.069 Jill Goldenziel: And… there's… I was on an international trip. I was stuck in Iceland.
00:43:08.080 --> 00:43:24.349 Jill Goldenziel: stuck in Reykjavik in the middle of the summer, and they… I was stuck there for 2 days, and, like, the second time the flight got canceled, they told us at the air… the airline told us at the airport, and by the way, you're all on your own for hotel rooms because there's nothing booked in the city, there's nothing open in the city, and the crew has no idea where we're going to stay.
00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:27.199 Jill Goldenziel: Okay, so at that moment.
00:43:27.290 --> 00:43:38.730 Jill Goldenziel: a Marine friend of mine, a colonel, texted me and said, are you home yet? And I said, I explained, I'm like, no, I'm stuck here. And then, it was like we both moved into this very quiet and calm.
00:43:38.730 --> 00:43:55.299 Jill Goldenziel: And I started looking for hotels for me, and he immediately, sitting in Virginia, started looking at hotels for me, and figuring it out, and we were going back and forth with the plan of who looked at the Hiltons and who looked at the Marriott, and then I finally figured out a place
00:43:55.590 --> 00:44:00.159 Jill Goldenziel: And then, you know, walked out and was, you know, back in normal mode at normal speed, and I…
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:02.940 Jill Goldenziel: That's what I thought, what just happened? Like…
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:09.909 Jill Goldenziel: It's across the ocean, he's not even here, we're doing this by text message, and yet we both knew
00:44:09.910 --> 00:44:25.680 Jill Goldenziel: You know, and I hadn't even been working with him for 2 years at that point. We both knew to immediately, at this moment where everybody's panicking, move back into calm, and what exactly to do, and how to communicate with each other, and I thought, this is so weird. I mean, this… this…
00:44:25.680 --> 00:44:39.139 Jill Goldenziel: marine green stuff has steeped into my blood, but this is a very good thing, because I would not have been handling it well if he had not been there, bizarrely on text message, at the right time, to, like, bring me into that state.
00:44:39.550 --> 00:44:48.009 Mira Brancu: I love this story, yeah, and we often call that slowing down to speed up, right? The same thing happens, you know, with,
00:44:48.120 --> 00:45:02.289 Mira Brancu: speed racers is, you know, they see the curve coming up, they can't continue speeding at the way that they, you know, have been. In order for them not to crash, they're gonna have to slow down to manage the curve.
00:45:02.290 --> 00:45:10.219 Mira Brancu: Right? It's the same idea, and a lot of leaders do not slow down in order to speed up. But if you do the kinds of things that
00:45:10.650 --> 00:45:14.490 Mira Brancu: Jill has been talking about, it…
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:30.499 Mira Brancu: it becomes ingrained in the way that that colonel did, where he, like, knows when to slow down and how to use that slowdown process in order to help you speed up and get into what you need. But that takes so much
00:45:31.040 --> 00:45:39.219 Mira Brancu: practice, right, and experience to know that this is the time and, you know, how to get focused. So…
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:54.830 Mira Brancu: We are reaching another ad break, and I'd love to kind of open this up now more broadly when we come back about, you know, what other ways we can think about why strategic thinking helps, whether it's
00:45:54.900 --> 00:46:11.319 Mira Brancu: through trust, creating trust among people, creating alignment, all of those things that we need in organizations for positive culture. So, you're listening to the Hard Skills with me, Dr. Amira Brancou, and our guest today, Dr. Jill Goldenzeal, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:47:36.650 --> 00:47:51.539 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills! Okay, Jill, so, what are some applications of strategic thinking besides
00:47:51.710 --> 00:48:09.809 Mira Brancu: managing crises and chaos. You know, some of the things that I was thinking about were, like, how you think about developing a positive work culture. But you might have, like, real specific ways that, folks can start thinking about, like, the applicability of this
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:13.380 Mira Brancu: This kind of… Competency.
00:48:15.130 --> 00:48:22.870 Jill Goldenziel: I think it is mainly about having a plan, and and then figuring out concrete steps.
00:48:22.890 --> 00:48:35.690 Jill Goldenziel: to align leaders within an organization with that plan or with that vision, and then concrete steps involving, involving how to execute it. This is going to sound familiar to you.
00:48:36.110 --> 00:48:43.340 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And so then, when we think about
00:48:43.830 --> 00:48:51.290 Mira Brancu: The… the situations where we need to have, a really strong plan.
00:48:52.160 --> 00:48:57.780 Mira Brancu: And… We think about, like, leaders who…
00:48:57.890 --> 00:49:04.160 Mira Brancu: You know, are, as you said, like, thinking about their… their intention, their goal.
00:49:04.330 --> 00:49:12.999 Mira Brancu: As for, you know, front and center, as the most important thing, so that they're not allowing those fires to take them away from that focus.
00:49:14.610 --> 00:49:17.069 Mira Brancu: Do you think it's still realistic
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:25.879 Mira Brancu: To have 10-year plans, to have even 5-year plans? I get this question all the time, so I'm curious what you think about that.
00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:29.890 Jill Goldenziel: Yes, I think it's important to have that
00:49:30.590 --> 00:49:49.609 Jill Goldenziel: plan for where you are going to go, and then to keep revisiting it as circumstances arise along the way. And it's fine to adjust your goals, it's fine to adjust your end state based on market conditions, or life conditions, or whatever may happen in the meantime.
00:49:49.610 --> 00:49:56.240 Jill Goldenziel: But you need to be able to have something to focus on and move towards.
00:49:56.950 --> 00:49:57.540 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:49:57.790 --> 00:50:22.110 Jill Goldenziel: And you need to be able to have concrete steps how to get there, and then revisit, well, what worked, what didn't? What opportunities are new that I've opened up? What happens now that there's AI and I can have ChatGPT on my desktop, and what can I build that I can, you know, team… where I can team better with AI in order to do a job better or get to a milestone faster, etc.
00:50:22.690 --> 00:50:27.560 Mira Brancu: Yeah, and I think a lot of this, comes down to the…
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:35.980 Mira Brancu: the reason that you plan is actually to be flexible. This is what I'm hearing from you, right? Like.
00:50:35.980 --> 00:50:36.380 Jill Goldenziel: Yes.
00:50:36.380 --> 00:50:38.449 Mira Brancu: It's not to be rigid.
00:50:38.570 --> 00:50:39.970 Mira Brancu: It's to be ready.
00:50:40.210 --> 00:50:41.280 Mira Brancu: And…
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:42.450 Jill Goldenziel: I like that.
00:50:42.450 --> 00:50:45.710 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, well, I just made it up, I heard it from you, and I'm just…
00:50:45.710 --> 00:50:49.550 Jill Goldenziel: I… I'm gonna use that!
00:50:49.550 --> 00:50:51.619 Mira Brancu: Excellent. High five! Go on!
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:58.009 Mira Brancu: Yeah, you know, If you set…
00:50:58.120 --> 00:51:01.900 Mira Brancu: A long-term, goal or intention.
00:51:02.050 --> 00:51:08.499 Mira Brancu: It doesn't mean you're going to follow a very rigid, clear path. It just means
00:51:08.510 --> 00:51:26.600 Mira Brancu: you have to figure out how to constantly pivot every time you get thrown a curveball. And there's only one way you're going to learn how to pivot constantly and well. It's to practice those skills that you just described, right? About planning and scenario setting and, you know, simulation and those kinds of things.
00:51:26.670 --> 00:51:31.369 Mira Brancu: So, in the last bit here, I'm curious…
00:51:31.580 --> 00:51:38.490 Mira Brancu: You work in the realm of lawfare and geopolitical risk.
00:51:38.640 --> 00:51:49.289 Mira Brancu: Do business owners need to know that kind of information if, like, if they're not operating globally, do they still need to know that? And if so, why?
00:51:50.210 --> 00:51:58.329 Jill Goldenziel: Yes, I think I need to explain this less than I used to, because everyone has been hit by terrorists.
00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:18.070 Jill Goldenziel: And very few people, if any, saw it coming, that there were going to be global tariffs levied on the entire world, and then brought back, and then move forward, and everybody that I know and have worked with has been hit by them in some way, shape, or form.
00:52:18.070 --> 00:52:34.189 Jill Goldenziel: This is not the only major shock we're going to see. It's just the most tangible and most visible to a lot of people, but as, I don't… I don't want to get alarmist, but as strategic competition with China ramps up, and
00:52:34.190 --> 00:52:38.519 Jill Goldenziel: If it should… certainly, if it ever should come to conflict.
00:52:38.720 --> 00:52:54.820 Jill Goldenziel: we're going to be hit with much worse. And every household's going to feel it, every business is going to feel it, and every business needs to be thinking about it, monitoring it, and being prepared. COVID was another one. I mean, who wasn't affected by supply chains at some point during COVID?
00:52:55.000 --> 00:53:14.460 Jill Goldenziel: most people hadn't spent a lot of time thinking about supply chains before COVID, and suddenly it was very much a household topic of discussion. So, even if countries don't operate internationally, what happens internationally affects the products and processes they use here.
00:53:15.030 --> 00:53:17.559 Jill Goldenziel: It's no longer something businesses can avoid.
00:53:17.780 --> 00:53:22.989 Mira Brancu: Yeah, honestly, what I'm reflecting as you're talking is that
00:53:23.170 --> 00:53:28.740 Mira Brancu: We really can no longer afford to have this sort of
00:53:29.530 --> 00:53:35.989 Mira Brancu: America bubble where, you know, you stay optimistic and in denial.
00:53:36.120 --> 00:53:40.229 Jill Goldenziel: Like, you have to be realistic and pragmatic, and you have to sort of.
00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:55.639 Mira Brancu: plan for all scenarios and be tracking the trends and concerns, you know, looking at what's happening at one… in one place in the world and another place, and how that might potentially affect you. And it doesn't mean
00:53:55.640 --> 00:54:13.970 Mira Brancu: that you're being negative or, you know, morbid or whatever, it means you're just being planful and pragmatic and realistic, and if it never comes to fruition, great. At least you plan for it, and if it does, you're ready. Even better.
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:23.510 Jill Goldenziel: You're probably becoming a more informed citizen of the world in the process, which is not a bad side effect, even if nothing comes of it.
00:54:23.510 --> 00:54:36.730 Mira Brancu: Not such a bad thing, great. Okay, so if people want to learn more about you and working with you, because you also do a lot of work outside of that, you know, with teams and things like that, if they want to learn more, how can they find out more?
00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:44.649 Jill Goldenziel: Sure. I'm at Jillgoldenseale.com. I am at Jill Goldenzale on just about every platform.
00:54:45.060 --> 00:54:56.070 Jill Goldenziel: And, I'm Jill Goldenzale Strategy… oh, thank you, Mira, there I am. There's the website. I am Jill Goldenzeal… at Jill Goldenzale Strategy on YouTube as well.
00:54:56.910 --> 00:55:11.489 Mira Brancu: Excellent. And for those of you who are watching the recording or live right now, I'm showing thejillgoldensile.com. She's, got information about consulting and speaking and arbitration and all the millions of things that she does, and I…
00:55:11.610 --> 00:55:16.220 Mira Brancu: Honestly, I'm drooling over your website also.
00:55:16.700 --> 00:55:20.999 Mira Brancu: Thank you. It's fabulous. It's very impressive. So, audience.
00:55:21.410 --> 00:55:23.719 Mira Brancu: What did you take away from today?
00:55:23.980 --> 00:55:29.790 Mira Brancu: And, more importantly, what is one small change You can implement this week.
00:55:29.900 --> 00:55:47.690 Mira Brancu: Based on what you learned from Jill. We talked about lots of great ideas. We talked about education and planning in advance. We talked about continuous learning, taking breaks and reflecting, right, and planning during those breaks. We, talked about playing it out and practicing.
00:55:47.890 --> 00:56:06.879 Mira Brancu: bringing diverse perspectives. We talked about poking holes in things, and who can do that for you? Who do you trust besides AI that can also do that for you? We talked about red teaming and wargaming, and how can you apply that, even if you're not in the military?
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:16.359 Mira Brancu: And that there's a process for everything in the military. Can you have a process for everything for yourself, so that you're ready, right?
00:56:16.520 --> 00:56:20.229 Mira Brancu: So… What is one small change?
00:56:20.690 --> 00:56:33.900 Mira Brancu: that you can implement this week, based on anything that you've learned. Share it with us on LinkedIn, so we can share you on. That's where Jill and I live, online, and also, talkradio.nyc is also there.
00:56:33.910 --> 00:56:47.690 Mira Brancu: The hard skills is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, Apple, Spotify, Amazon. I hear we're going to Substack now, that's exciting. So, if today's episode resonated with you.
00:56:48.010 --> 00:57:03.399 Mira Brancu: Share it with a colleague, or leave a review. And if you're looking for more personalized support, leadership, or team coaching, you could also head to my website, Gotowerscope.com, to schedule a consultation. I want to thank, talkradio.nyc for hosting.
00:57:03.710 --> 00:57:18.210 Mira Brancu: Together, we will navigate the complexities of leadership and emerge stronger on the other side. Thank you for joining me and Dr. Jill Goldenzeal today on this journey. This is Dr. Amira Branco signing off, and until next time, stay steady!
00:57:18.450 --> 00:57:22.950 Mira Brancu: Stay present, and keep building those hard skills muscles.
00:57:23.300 --> 00:57:24.600 Mira Brancu: Take care, everybody.
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