In this illuminating conversation, host Shervon Laurice sits down with author Stephen Gray (Cannabis and Spirituality, Returning to Sacred World, How Psychedelics Can Help Save the World) to explore how plant medicines and psychedelics can serve as catalysts for both personal awakening and collective transformation.
Together, they discuss Indigenous wisdom, spiritual practice, and how plant medicines and psychedelics may hold a key to a global shift in consciousness. Leading to humanity rediscovering the sacred as we navigate the crises of the modern world.
Stephen Gray is a teacher and writer on spiritual subjects and sacramental medicines. He has worked extensively with Tibetan Buddhism, the Native American Church, and with entheogenic medicines. The author of Returning to Sacred World: A Spiritual Toolkit for the Emerging Reality; Cannabis and Spirituality: An Explorer's Guide to an Ancient Plant Spirit Ally; and How Psychedelics Can Help Save the World: Visionary and Indigenous Voices Speak Out (Editor/Contributor). He has also been a conference and workshop organizer, leader, and speaker for many years. He lives in Vancouver, British Columbia.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-gray-506616b8?utm_source=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=member_ios
In this episode of The Expansion Room, Shervon welcomes guest Stephen Gray as they kick of the first segment with a discussion about consciousness, psychedelics, and their potential role in global evolution. Steve then shares with us his spiritual journey and how cannabis influenced his path. Explaining that cannabis amplifies experiences, both positive and negative, and helped him recognize his need for healing. Steve also touches on the cultural context of the 1960s and 1970s, when cannabis and psychedelics became popular among the baby boomer generation, challenging the conservative mindset of the time.
Steve begins the second segment by touching on his background in organizing a Spirit Plant Medicine Conference in Vancouver and shared personal experiences with plant medicine and healing spirits. Both Shervon and Steve agree that personal experiences of divine connection could translate into collective healing and global consciousness. Steve ends the second segment by telling us more about the potential impact of psychedelics on planetary affairs, noting that while some people are skeptical, these substances can open channels to personal and unconditioned realities. He emphasizes the importance of using psychedelics with intention and proper guidance, highlighting the need for rigorous training for ceremonial leaders.
Steve and Shervon start the third segment by discussing the transformative power of love and intelligence, comparing it to the creative process of artists and creators. They explored how psychedelics and cannabis can open individuals to understanding these concepts and the idea of a tipping point where a significant percentage of people on the planet might shift due to such experiences. Steve shares personal experiences with psychedelics, describing them as opening up to the peace that passes all understanding and the ultimate potential for enlightenment.
In the final segment Steve discusses the potential of psychedelics to lead individuals to their true nature, emphasizing the importance of humility and self-examination in this journey. He highlights the challenge of translating these insights into collective action, given the limited number of people using psychedelics and the need for these insights to naturally spill into compassionate action. Steve also touches on the current global crisis, suggesting that humanity has reached a pivotal moment where ignoring our true nature is no longer sustainable. He emphasized the need for a compelling narrative that aligns with our true nature and encourages action, while also acknowledging the diverse ways in which individuals can contribute to this collective awakening.
00:00:50.520 --> 00:01:01.299 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Hello, and welcome back to the Expansion Room. I am your host, Shervon Laurice and this is where we believe that inner work meets impact.
00:01:01.760 --> 00:01:19.200 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And today, we are going to be talking a little bit about the edges of consciousness, and the evolution of our species on this planet, basically. My… my background
00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:26.790 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Has been very much so entrenched in the last 6 or 7 years in…
00:01:26.910 --> 00:01:45.340 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: psychedelic exploration and bringing psychedelic healing, into the mental health sphere with the trainings that I have received. And today, we'll be talking about how plant medicines and psychedelics may hold the key
00:01:45.340 --> 00:01:48.749 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: To the global shift in consciousness.
00:01:48.780 --> 00:02:01.760 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And today, my guest is Stephen Gray, who's a teacher and a writer on spiritual subjects and sacramental medicine. And he is the author of several books.
00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:08.830 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Returning to Sacred World, a spiritual toolkit for the emerging reality.
00:02:08.870 --> 00:02:21.089 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Cannabis and Spirituality, An Explorer's Guide to an Ancient Plant Spirit Ally, and How Psychedelics Can Help Save the World.
00:02:21.210 --> 00:02:24.799 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Visionary and Indigenous voices speak out.
00:02:25.230 --> 00:02:31.190 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so today, I'm looking forward to having a very riveting conversation.
00:02:31.430 --> 00:02:40.729 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So, Steve, why don't you unmute yourself and maybe share a little bit, about yourself with the audience, and then we'll dive in.
00:02:41.480 --> 00:02:44.570 Steve: Sure, I don't know, what do you want to know?
00:02:44.570 --> 00:02:49.690 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What are we up to these days?
00:02:49.850 --> 00:03:00.089 Steve: Wasting as much time as possible. I have a new book coming, but it hasn't really… that'll be next year, with the same publisher, Inter Traditions Park Street Press. That one is a collection of
00:03:00.090 --> 00:03:18.850 Steve: stories from the path… path… yeah, the path. I almost said the past, but it's that too. And, yeah, just, like, all the best stories that I've recollected from my own experience, and from those of friends and colleagues, and some… a few from major figures in the world of psychedelics, they're all…
00:03:18.850 --> 00:03:28.350 Steve: really short chapters, one or two or three pages, and then I threw in a few little chapters, mini chapters of insights, but…
00:03:28.350 --> 00:03:29.270 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: That's lovely.
00:03:29.270 --> 00:03:47.489 Steve: That's one thing coming along. I'm actually spending a lot of time… I'm not a professional musician, although I did teach music as a career for about 20 years, but I compose music using Virtual Studio, Logic Pro, you know, on your computer, and
00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:58.140 Steve: all the different sounds that I have access to, and so on, and I… I do… I've done things like created slideshows using my music as the background for that. My latest
00:03:58.180 --> 00:04:05.219 Steve: focus or attempt with that, that I've been working on this summer, is I looked up,
00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:20.510 Steve: on Spotify, I looked up playlists, or psychedelic journeying, or psychedelic-assisted therapy music playlists, and I thought, oh, there's some really neat music on these. I'd like to make music that could be used for those purposes, so I've been focusing on that a bit.
00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:21.059 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Whoa.
00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:22.369 Steve: Yeah, I love it.
00:04:22.370 --> 00:04:23.159 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I have…
00:04:23.610 --> 00:04:32.800 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: coming, appointment with a guy, who apparently is a DJ and loves to put together playlists.
00:04:33.380 --> 00:04:44.070 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: people based on them specifically, and we… me and another therapist are going out to meet with him to see if he could also do that
00:04:44.210 --> 00:04:49.869 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: specifically for psychedelics. So that… I'm looking forward to that conversation.
00:04:49.870 --> 00:04:50.679 Steve: Oh, yeah.
00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:51.670 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Intriguing. I love it.
00:04:51.670 --> 00:05:05.779 Steve: Yeah, there's at least a half a dozen playlists on Spotify with titles like that, and we're just people who have collected music they thought was appropriate. It's not all amazing, but, you know, there's some really interesting pieces on there.
00:05:05.780 --> 00:05:15.340 Steve: So that, and then, I'm not really… I'm not doing this yet, but my next project, along with continuing to do some of this music, is,
00:05:15.450 --> 00:05:24.829 Steve: I want to get a… I have a… I have a newsletter with MailChimp, but I've… I want to migrate that as much as possible over to Substack and get rid of the MailChimp one.
00:05:25.380 --> 00:05:37.449 Steve: And I want to start putting out content there, you know, short essays and stuff, and I might use, as I say, some, you know, do some video recording with my own music as the background for that, for example.
00:05:37.590 --> 00:05:39.020 Steve: But as you probably…
00:05:39.020 --> 00:05:41.750 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: on your email list, then. I'd love to know about that.
00:05:41.750 --> 00:05:43.139 Steve: Oh, okay, sure.
00:05:43.290 --> 00:05:56.490 Steve: But probably, you know, that question that you asked often is, like, implies, if doesn't state directly, necessarily, you know, what got you into all this? So I had thought about…
00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:13.100 Steve: Assuming you want to know. I thought about this a couple of minutes before we got on together today, and the one thing I want to say is that, you know, with a sort of a woo-woo alert disclaimer for some people, probably, but I don't think
00:06:13.270 --> 00:06:23.389 Steve: We can talk about what formed us and what appointed us in the directions we go in our life, especially for people who are active about change and growth.
00:06:23.390 --> 00:06:34.630 Steve: Without considering, or without acknowledging that we carry a stream of history that goes way back before the birth of this particular incarnation.
00:06:34.630 --> 00:06:53.870 Steve: I could spend the hour telling you about some of the information that's come my way that leads me to think that I have a history, just like probably everybody else, you know? I'm fairly sure I knew my… the Buddhist teacher that I studied with in this life in past lives. It was probably a student of his in past lives.
00:06:53.870 --> 00:07:04.190 Steve: I'm pretty sure I've been around spiritual and religious environments. I've been told that by some pretty powerful psychics a couple of times as well.
00:07:04.190 --> 00:07:06.480 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: In the past.
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.420 Steve: Not necessarily always successfully.
00:07:09.550 --> 00:07:26.450 Steve: But, basically, so that… so one answer as to how I got into this current work that I do is, it's a continuation of a long history, I would say. So in this particular incarnation.
00:07:27.230 --> 00:07:32.370 Steve: I've just always been… well, for one thing, when I was growing up.
00:07:32.400 --> 00:07:48.740 Steve: I didn't have a good handle on myself. I was quite shy in a lot of ways. You know, it's kind of a classic that people that get involved in healing work of one kind or another are typically because
00:07:48.860 --> 00:08:03.539 Steve: they need healing. They recognize that they need healing, right? So I… by the time I hit early adulthood, I was pretty sure I needed to go to the repair shop, you know? And by the way, cannabis
00:08:03.710 --> 00:08:14.349 Steve: had an influence in that. You know, as you know, I've been an educator on cannabis and a ceremonialist for a long time as well, but .
00:08:14.350 --> 00:08:21.929 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: How did it kind of influence, along with psychedelics, or shape your life and the work?
00:08:22.350 --> 00:08:24.689 Steve: Well, for starters.
00:08:24.790 --> 00:08:40.749 Steve: and this was, how would you put it, accidental or unconscious, in a sense. It wasn't part of any kind of a plan. What cannabis does, this is essential to how it can work as a spiritual ally, is in the same way that it can go wrong, so to speak.
00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:51.220 Steve: Is that it amplifies things. It amplifies. It amplifies biochemically, pharmacokinetically, it amplifies mentally, you know, spiritually, emotionally, physically, all those things.
00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:57.270 Steve: Opens up channels, et cetera, et cetera, but it amplifies, and if you're thinking, this is the sort of the…
00:08:57.270 --> 00:09:19.940 Steve: harmful or negative side of it, so to speak. If your thinking is negative or harmful to yourself or others, but particularly if it's in my case and many others, if it's, you might say, self-sabotaging, then cannabis can amplify that out of all perspective. And that's what I meant by it kind of thrust me onto the path in some ways, because until I started using cannabis in my late teens.
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:34.450 Steve: I don't think I realized that. I was always… I was already interested in, reading about spiritual and psychological, you know, psychology kind of things, starting around the end of high school, but once I… once I got
00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:42.249 Steve: using cannabis more. It… it… it triggered… there were times where it triggered some pain, you know?
00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:53.270 Steve: So that's what I meant by driving me onto the path, in that sense. But also, the first time I ever tried cannabis, I recognized that there was a,
00:09:53.940 --> 00:10:13.259 Steve: there was a dimension of experience, even perceptual experience, that was… that was obscured, or hidden, or unavailable to me, that cannabis brought out, right? It brought out, just in that amplifying way, it brought out, you know, increased sensual sense perceptions in a variety of ways, and different
00:10:13.570 --> 00:10:28.420 Steve: ways of thinking about or seeing and experiencing things as well. So that's what kind of got me going. But also, I happened to be… happened to come of age at a very ripe time in the culture, in Western society.
00:10:28.420 --> 00:10:45.349 Steve: Which, this is not one of those my generation, you know, above all, uberales or something ideas. It's just that there were a… there was a particular configuration of, forces and circumstances which will probably never be repeated.
00:10:45.410 --> 00:10:48.639 Steve: Partly because, for one thing,
00:10:48.970 --> 00:10:58.460 Steve: a whole bunch of people came back from World War II and started, coupling like rabbits, right? And so that produced, what is
00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:19.479 Steve: in my mind, somewhat pejoratively referred to as the baby boomer generation. That was a major, a huge uplift or, you know, uptick in the number of people being born in the 10 years or so after World War II. Combine that with the fact that the generation of the people
00:11:19.520 --> 00:11:35.710 Steve: who were producing those kids had lived through, many of them, two world wars, and at least one world war, and a lengthy, serious economic depression. So they had a particular mindset that was influenced by that, and one of those things was it was a kind of, like.
00:11:35.810 --> 00:11:59.399 Steve: very material time for a lot of people, like a very conservative, very conformist, button-down, let's get things solid here, let's get a home, let's get, you know, we're talking, you know, mostly middle-class Westerners that did this, because the hippies, so to speak, the counterculture, were primarily middle class, so they came out of that generation of parents who had worked hard, to create this safe
00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:02.770 Steve: sort of base for themselves and their children and so on. But…
00:12:03.410 --> 00:12:08.079 Steve: Large for a whole bunch of reasons that many… we probably don't even know, but…
00:12:08.160 --> 00:12:24.460 Steve: Largely because of that, this generation that came of age at the same time started to recognize the great limitations of that mindset that had determined the way that those people lived in the 1950s, and
00:12:24.460 --> 00:12:30.010 Steve: Into the early 60s. And then the cannabis and other psychedelics.
00:12:30.010 --> 00:12:48.780 Steve: when people started going, oh, wait a minute, that's really barren, that's really empty in a lot of ways, that's really restrictive, this is not good, this sort of ultra-safe, conservative, conformist, materialist, approach to life, you know? And that, for probably no…
00:12:48.780 --> 00:13:09.619 Steve: accidental reasons dovetailed or, you know, synchronized chronologically with an explosion of interest in spirituality, especially that of Asia, but not solely. If you look at the top 40 charts of around 1970, you see blatantly spiritual-themed songs, like.
00:13:09.670 --> 00:13:17.279 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: you know, number one hits, or whatever, they'll put your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee, you know?
00:13:17.280 --> 00:13:36.270 Steve: musical plays like Hair or Godspell, you know, all that kind. It was all over the place, and so that… I was right in the middle of all that, influenced me deeply. I had a number of experiences with LSD, some of them quite enlightening, and then there was this idea
00:13:36.270 --> 00:13:45.459 Steve: Well, we may never get to the present at the rate I'm going here, but I'll try to keep it relatively short. This is not saying it to talk about myself, but to
00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:52.239 Steve: put a little context on where all this, you know, on the cultural level came from and went, or has gone. So…
00:13:52.450 --> 00:14:02.129 Steve: there was an, I don't know if you call it a meme, or a kind of an idea floating around with my, with my cohorts, as it were, at the time.
00:14:02.130 --> 00:14:11.609 Steve: Which was something like, okay, so you've had some divinatory, breakthrough or experience on LSD, that was the main psychedelic of the time.
00:14:11.610 --> 00:14:28.609 Steve: But now what are you going to do? You can't… you can't take LSD every week… every weekend for the rest of your life. You have to find a way to make this real in an ongoing way. Today, we call that integration. We didn't… we didn't have that term back then.
00:14:28.610 --> 00:14:41.060 Steve: So for a lot of people, including myself, it was find a spiritual tradition or practice of some kind. For me, it was Tibetan Buddhism, and I was very involved with that for 25 years or so.
00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:56.650 Steve: eventually started to fall away as I started to see some serious cracks in some of the ways that things were being done, in that organization, and so on and so on. And that dovetailed with my discovery of Terrence McKenna, who I credit
00:14:56.650 --> 00:15:08.060 Steve: with, turning me back onto the path of psychedelics as spiritual allies. Because that's what he was talking about in the late 80s and early 90s, was he was saying, hey, folks.
00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:20.739 Steve: There are ancient traditions here of people who have used these substances not recreationally, not for Friday night partying, not for sensation or colorful pictures, but for healing, for spiritual awakening.
00:15:20.740 --> 00:15:29.170 Steve: And they're quite powerful, and they produce amazing possibilities, and so I got re-interested in all that around that time.
00:15:29.170 --> 00:15:48.080 Steve: And I'll give you the very short version. One thing led to another. I started working with psychedelics again. One thing that led me to was a Native American church with the peyote prayer ceremonies, and I had about 10 years of very active participation with them. That was amazing. I would like to say for people that,
00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:50.070 Steve: Excuse me, that,
00:15:50.070 --> 00:16:13.880 Steve: I've been around a lot of ritual containers with and not with medicines, in particular, like, the Tibetan Buddhists… I mean, I grew up in the Christian church, too. I've been around all kinds of ritual containers, you might say, and in my experience, the container created in those Native American church all-night peyote prayer ceremonies is unparalleled.
00:16:13.920 --> 00:16:16.130 Steve: It's essentially impeccable.
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:25.679 Steve: You know, the road man who ran a lot of those meetings, who I call Canucus. It's part of his name, that's not his full name,
00:16:26.140 --> 00:16:34.720 Steve: once said, in response to somebody who thought there was a bit of a dark energy had come to visit her during the night. He said, well, you know.
00:16:35.310 --> 00:16:50.499 Steve: We don't have that here, because we keep the space protected, we keep it clean. So, you know, in all those, you know, 150 years of peyote prayer ceremonies throughout the western United States in particular.
00:16:50.630 --> 00:16:54.840 Steve: they're generally… If there's a spirit coming in, it's…
00:16:54.840 --> 00:17:04.060 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Grandfather peyote, Holy Spirit, right? The healing spirit. So anyway, that was wonderful. And I've also spent a bunch of time sitting with the Santo Daimi.
00:17:04.180 --> 00:17:23.410 Steve: people who use ayahuasca, so had that experience as well. And one more thing I'll say about my own personal background. I just retired from 13 years of being the lead organizer, essentially, for an iconic conference here in Vancouver called a Spirit Plant Medicine Conference.
00:17:23.450 --> 00:17:29.129 Steve: For which we've brought in many, influencers and leaders in psychedelics.
00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:30.300 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Here we go.
00:17:30.300 --> 00:17:31.010 Steve: We are.
00:17:32.100 --> 00:17:41.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Bringing it to modern time. And so, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, I would love to start with
00:17:41.550 --> 00:17:44.549 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Based on your personal experience.
00:17:44.550 --> 00:17:45.040 Steve: Yes.
00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:50.710 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Of divine connection, how does that translate into collective healing?
00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:54.720 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: consciousness, so that's where we'll begin when we come back.
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.379 Steve: Sure, big, big question.
00:17:57.300 --> 00:17:57.990 Steve: Yeah.
00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:57.320 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the Expansion Room, where today we are talking about the role of plant medicine in humanity's return to the sacred. And my guest today is Stephen Gray, and we…
00:19:58.270 --> 00:20:02.759 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Broke right at the point of thinking about
00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:12.049 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: How his personal experience of oneness or divine connection translates into…
00:20:12.320 --> 00:20:26.509 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: collective healing for our planet, or global consciousness as it's rising now. And so, I'll leave the floor to you, Steve. How would you think about that as a larger
00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:27.880 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Collective.
00:20:28.110 --> 00:20:29.760 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: issue.
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:34.930 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Oh, and you'll have to unmute. Sorry.
00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:46.350 Steve: Okay, it's a really big question, and I really would feel, you know, for me, it would be inappropriate to try to nail that one down.
00:20:46.350 --> 00:21:01.320 Steve: with some kind of authoritative carved-in-stone answer. There are lots of different opinions about how likely the use of psychedelics is to be able to have any kind of significant influence on the trajectory of planetary affairs.
00:21:01.320 --> 00:21:09.749 Steve: Some people are quite skeptical. Some very astute, you know, deeply considered, philosophically oriented writers and thinkers,
00:21:09.820 --> 00:21:26.089 Steve: think that there's not much hope for psychedelics. It's just that our problems are too overwhelming for too many… for too many people. There's 8 billion people on this planet, and how many of those people are using psychedelics, and how many of those people are using them
00:21:26.090 --> 00:21:44.680 Steve: with, you know, right intention, you might say. And how many of those people are able to translate, as you're implying in your question, their personal awakening, or insights or catharsis into collective action. So it's a really big question.
00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:53.439 Steve: Let's go back to the basics about what they actually do, though, or can do. So, you know, in the right circumstances.
00:21:53.440 --> 00:22:05.270 Steve: And occasionally, you know, accidentally, you know, you just… somebody wasn't thinking about why they were taking some psilocybin mushrooms, and they ended up having an amazing insight or experience, fine, but…
00:22:05.270 --> 00:22:09.720 Steve: You're, you're, of course, as you would know, Shirvan,
00:22:10.060 --> 00:22:24.100 Steve: You are lifting up your percentage chances dramatically by taking these substances, first of all, with the intention of healing and awakening, and secondly.
00:22:24.170 --> 00:22:40.350 Steve: in the right, circumstances, the right conditions, preferably with a sitter, a guide, or in a ceremony, guided by somebody who really knows what they're doing. And we could actually spend an hour talking about what
00:22:40.350 --> 00:22:51.909 Steve: knows what they're doing means as well, but we won't. I'll just say in sort of 27 and a half words or less that, that, in my view, and that of many other people.
00:22:51.910 --> 00:23:04.590 Steve: Anyone who's… who has the balls to, the cojones, to set themselves up as a ceremonial leader, like an ayahuascaro, needs to do a rigorous and oftentimes long period of training.
00:23:04.590 --> 00:23:18.420 Steve: keep under a mentor, and remain humble, and be really clear about why you're doing this, because it's too easy to be in it for sex, power, money, you know, influence, etc.
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:22.519 Steve: Especially with… You know, we know there's so much ayahuasca arrow.
00:23:22.520 --> 00:23:43.359 Steve: or, you know, ayahuasca ceremonies around. I mean, I don't know what people are charging $300, $400 for a 5-hour ceremony, and you get 15, 20 people in that room. Just do the math, right? You know, there's a chance of making good money there, and then if you think of yourself as some sort of a guru or wise person, then, you know, you could be…
00:23:43.590 --> 00:23:51.160 Steve: seduced into, seducing, as it were. So, that said,
00:23:52.320 --> 00:24:00.490 Steve: Spiritually, biochemically, whatever, you know, that combination is, that sort of potent brew is,
00:24:00.670 --> 00:24:12.979 Steve: psychedelics, open up channels that are existing already. You know, the Buddha… the Buddha said, we're already Buddhas, we are… Buddha… the word Buddha just means awake, or when he was awake.
00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:24.719 Steve: And, you know, basically, the core Buddhist teaching is we're all that already, it's just that we've covered it over with layers and layers of thought and concept and belief and confusion.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:28.980 Steve: But underneath all that is the pure light of our true nature.
00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:52.629 Steve: So, because we're physical meat bodies, chemical beings, we do a lot of that by the chemicals that move through our brains, in particular, right? What psychedelics do is they muck with the mix, and they open up some of those channels that have been shut down or lain dormant.
00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:54.870 Steve: And so,
00:24:55.190 --> 00:25:11.019 Steve: you can go astray with that, of course, but, but, you know, in the best circumstances, they open up to… open one up, potentially, to… to re… reality. You know, first of all, the real… the way I often think of psychedelics is.
00:25:11.410 --> 00:25:21.579 Steve: is, is, is having two sort of overlapping or interwoven, functions. One is that they can,
00:25:21.670 --> 00:25:32.229 Steve: open up the channels to see your own personal history clearly. So oftentimes, people will recognize traumas from their past that need to be addressed.
00:25:32.230 --> 00:25:45.449 Steve: That's the more on the personal psychology kind of level. And the other side of that is they can open up to what's beyond that. That's what I would call the unconditioned reality. That's sort of a Buddhist term as well.
00:25:45.450 --> 00:26:04.039 Steve: They can show you that there… you know, ultimately, they can show you that there's some… that, you know, that love… love steers the stars, I think they said, in that hair musical that I referred to, you know? I think the song was called The Dawning of the Age of Aquarius, you know? Yeah.
00:26:04.040 --> 00:26:23.630 Steve: that love will steer the stars, and I think love does steer the stars. You know, whatever you think of as God, or the Holy Spirit, or the Creator, we don't really know what that is, and it's not really possible to know that, I don't think, you know, while you're in human form exactly, but you can…
00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:41.039 Steve: ultimately, you can recognize the fruits of the Lord's labor, you might say. In other words, you know, I'm not resting in a state of enlightenment or anything like it, but I've been there, I would say, you know? I've had experiences such as
00:26:41.280 --> 00:26:51.459 Steve: at the Native American church, peyote prayer ceremonies, where time stopped, everything stopped, everything went completely still, and, the space just felt
00:26:51.610 --> 00:27:09.700 Steve: you know, one of my favorite phrases of all time, I don't even know if anything Jesus said got accurately translated through all the many centuries and languages and, you know, gatekeepers, but he supposedly said… referred to the peace that passes all understanding.
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:12.579 Steve: Well, if any… whoever said that.
00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:28.029 Steve: you couldn't make that up. You can't just say, oh, yeah, there's this thing called the peace that passes all understanding, right? It's real, you know? It's our ultimate possibility, it's our ultimate potential, our ultimate destiny is to be able to…
00:27:28.030 --> 00:27:43.269 Steve: Rest in the nature… my Buddhist teacher called it rest in the nature of a laya, like the true state, right? Rest there. So, I've had several, always with psychedelics, actually, I've had several experiences that were brief,
00:27:43.270 --> 00:27:53.079 Steve: And but when you're there, you go, oh, yeah, there's no discussing this. This… this quote passes all understanding.
00:27:53.080 --> 00:28:06.530 Steve: You know, you can't explain it, you can't justify it, you can just go, yes. You know, the Buddha, another one, you have no idea what he actually said, but there's a story about the Buddha himself, was that, when he…
00:28:06.850 --> 00:28:26.680 Steve: after he, realized, you could say achieved enlightened, I would say landed on enlightenment, somebody said, how do you know you're enlightened? And the story, or apocryphal as it may be, was that he then reached out and put his palm down on the earth beside him, and said, this earth is my solid witness.
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:36.410 Steve: In other words… It's just what's real, okay? So the psychedelics ultimately can, open those kinds of channels.
00:28:36.620 --> 00:28:42.879 Steve: And, you know, the Buddhist term for, enlightenment or awakened mind is Bodhicitta.
00:28:42.930 --> 00:28:58.630 Steve: And Bodhi means awake, and cheetah means one who is traveling… cheetah means mind. So basically, what Bodhi cheetah means… pardon me, that's Bodhisattva, I'm getting mixed up here. Bodhi means awake, cheetah is mind, but mind, as defined in Sanskrit that way, is
00:28:58.630 --> 00:29:07.709 Steve: what we would call mind and heart mixed together. The mind… there's no such thing as a mind separate from the heart in that way, right? So,
00:29:08.040 --> 00:29:15.260 Steve: Bodhicitta is our… is our ultimate nature, and I mention this because it requires, or it…
00:29:15.930 --> 00:29:20.399 Steve: Inevitably involves the heart, you know?
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:21.960 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So.
00:29:22.210 --> 00:29:26.800 Steve: My Buddhist teacher's term was… for it was awakened heart.
00:29:26.800 --> 00:29:29.459 Steve: That's enlightenment. Awakened heart, right?
00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:50.880 Steve: So love does, as far as I can tell, although I'm not, you know, swimming in the deep waters all the time by any stretch, as far as I can tell, love does indeed steer the stars. But it's an intelligent love. It's intelligence. You know, Terrence McKenna talked about this a lot, too. It's very common that people who've had these kind of experiences talk about how
00:29:50.990 --> 00:29:54.200 Steve: The ultimate source, if you will.
00:29:54.580 --> 00:30:09.680 Steve: Of life altogether. The eternal, beyond time and space source is, something… you know, words are so frail in comparison to actual truth, you know, but, you know, something like intelligent love.
00:30:09.770 --> 00:30:16.760 Steve: creator… I like to think of the creators, and I think there are many, as artists.
00:30:16.910 --> 00:30:30.630 Steve: And, players, they play, and it's kind of like, you know, I can imagine them sort of sitting around in their quote-unquote room going, oh boy, what can we try now? You know? Oh, oh, here's one! You know?
00:30:30.630 --> 00:30:32.170 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right, right.
00:30:32.170 --> 00:30:36.120 Steve: Yeah. And so that would be an interesting way of thinking about…
00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:45.819 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: How the… how psychedelics and cannabis open us up To understanding that possibility.
00:30:46.050 --> 00:30:48.760 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And maybe, going back to the question.
00:30:48.760 --> 00:30:49.470 Steve: Right.
00:30:49.930 --> 00:30:50.790 Steve: getting there.
00:30:50.790 --> 00:30:57.589 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: A tipping point, and I do keep hearing from some people in metaphysical and psychedelic spaces.
00:30:57.980 --> 00:31:02.370 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: There's a tipping point, that the percentage, whatever the percentage is.
00:31:02.370 --> 00:31:02.800 Steve: Mmm.
00:31:02.800 --> 00:31:07.550 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: People on the planet who step into these realms.
00:31:07.550 --> 00:31:08.070 Steve: Yeah.
00:31:08.070 --> 00:31:12.399 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And learn to integrate, and come back and
00:31:12.550 --> 00:31:23.360 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: inhabit or express from that place within themselves, that's what will shift the planet. So I don't know what that percentage supposedly is.
00:31:23.360 --> 00:31:24.250 Steve: No.
00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:27.870 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: But that's… that's the whole idea, I think.
00:31:27.870 --> 00:31:28.220 Steve: No.
00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:28.750 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: bed.
00:31:29.290 --> 00:31:34.019 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And it doesn't necessarily have to be, and we'll talk more about this later today.
00:31:34.210 --> 00:31:37.810 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Plant medicine, because there's holotropic breathwork, there's.
00:31:37.810 --> 00:31:38.170 Steve: Yum.
00:31:38.300 --> 00:31:46.800 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: other practices, you know, I'm in the yoga tradition, you in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, there are other practices that can help people get…
00:31:46.800 --> 00:31:48.620 Steve: Of course.
00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:50.219 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We'll take our next break.
00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:50.830 Steve: Oh, no.
00:31:50.830 --> 00:31:54.490 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: when we come back. Yeah. Time is flying, right?
00:31:54.490 --> 00:32:02.269 Steve: Well, I hadn't even gotten to fully answering your question. What I was giving you was the background of what the psychedelics can ideally do, so…
00:32:02.270 --> 00:32:02.620 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.
00:32:02.620 --> 00:32:03.539 Steve: From there, yeah.
00:32:03.540 --> 00:32:05.550 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Then we'll get the other half on the next…
00:32:05.550 --> 00:32:05.990 Steve: Yeah.
00:32:05.990 --> 00:32:08.680 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: After this break. So come on back, y'all.
00:33:51.730 --> 00:34:07.680 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the expansion room. Steve, would you share with us a little bit more of your answer to that question? Oh, and you'll have to unmute yourself. Just taking a brief moment, and then we'll move into…
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:08.130 Steve: Truebra.
00:34:08.130 --> 00:34:10.189 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Of the… this segment.
00:34:10.190 --> 00:34:27.029 Steve: Yeah, okay, so we have a bit of a problem. This is a huge topic that we're talking about. We could easily do a couple of hours like this, easily. So I'll try to narrow it down to what I hope might be some of the essential points here. So, in the previous little segment, I tried to
00:34:27.030 --> 00:34:52.009 Steve: point out, or try to, you know, explain what psychedelics can ultimately do. They can lead us to our true nature, ultimately, you know. However, the next step, or the translation, as you think… I think you put it, from there into collective action, into action in the world, that's a whole other issue, and it's complicated, because for one thing, as I say, there are 8 billion of us, and there aren't that many people using
00:34:52.010 --> 00:35:03.309 Steve: psychedelics. It's a relatively small number, so, you know, where that tipping point is, who knows? Secondly, how many of the people that are embracing psychedelics are making that step? And that's a question.
00:35:03.310 --> 00:35:23.090 Steve: You know, and in fact, there's a study that indicates that depending on certain, you know, variables, factors, psychedelics can actually make you more of what you already were in your way of being in the world. So if you are already an arrogant person.
00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:33.200 Steve: The insights that you gain, you know, that seem to be quite powerful spiritual insights could potentially make you more arrogant, a lot less, right?
00:35:33.200 --> 00:35:33.570 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Mmm.
00:35:33.570 --> 00:35:44.820 Steve: So, humility is absolutely essential in all this work. Absolutely essential. Continuing self-examination, integration, etc.
00:35:44.820 --> 00:36:05.109 Steve: But also the recognition that it's just the starting point, you know? I mean, I've been around this kind of stuff long enough. I was involved with the sort of encounter groups and healing groups of the 70s and so on, and, you know, people would get obsessed endlessly with their, quote, case history, you know? Because there's always something.
00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:23.839 Steve: You know, that you can unravel in yourself. You know, my old Buddhist teacher once said, you'll never know all of it. You know, you've got past lives. You've got a kit… a giant, you know, library full of traumas from your past lives and so on. You'll never, you know, unravel all that stuff, so…
00:36:24.200 --> 00:36:35.929 Steve: all you can do is just, you know, be as present as possible. Do the, you know, the famous psychologist William James said that, you know, the unexamined life is not worth living.
00:36:35.930 --> 00:36:59.049 Steve: I mean, it's a bit of a harsh statement, but in some key sense, it's true, because otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels, and from the Buddha's point of view, you're just going to come back the next time exactly where you left off this time, facing the same problems that you need to deal with. So if you don't deal with them now, you're just putting off the inevitable, and you may not have even the conditions next time around to be able to…
00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:05.100 Steve: That you do now, you know, if you have the money to go to all these healing retreats and therapists and all this kind of stuff, you know?
00:37:05.100 --> 00:37:24.400 Steve: So, you know, that's another aspect of that, you know, when I say a limited number of people are using psychedelics, a lot of those people are the privileged. You know, they're the people who can afford to do it in a small, a relatively small portion of the planet. So that's one thing. However, that said.
00:37:24.560 --> 00:37:27.549 Steve: And I don't need to go on about this,
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:39.569 Steve: Ideally, of course, the clarity, the healing that one gains would, you would think, naturally spill out into compassionate action.
00:37:39.610 --> 00:37:56.649 Steve: But I think people have to recognize that, you know, because there seems to be commentary that I'm reading that it's not happening as much as it should. I get Daniel Pinchbeck's newsletter, and he's a really, really astute observer of culture.
00:37:56.650 --> 00:38:02.649 Steve: From both a spiritual and political perspective, and he says he has a lot of really intelligent, wonderful
00:38:02.900 --> 00:38:14.840 Steve: you know, sort of acquaintances and friends that are just tuned out to the political world, essentially, you know? They think, oh, well, there's nothing I can do, or, you know, it's hopeless anyway, sort of idea.
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:22.499 Steve: But, those people should be, you know, strapped to a chair and forced to read Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Buddhist master who said.
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:47.100 Steve: You know, that a spiritual life without action in the world is meaningless, right? So that's what has to happen, and we don't know what the potential is. What the bottom line is, this is what… this is the most important thing of all of this, is, you know, and it's difficult to condense this down to a short, praise, if you will, but I'll try for a couple of minutes here.
00:38:48.450 --> 00:38:51.729 Steve: There is essentially one story on this planet right now.
00:38:51.980 --> 00:39:03.389 Steve: As far as I can tell, and that is that… and this is where it gets potentially really complicated, I'm trying to keep it simple, for a whole bunch of reasons.
00:39:03.970 --> 00:39:08.569 Steve: We have reached a nexus point as a species on this planet.
00:39:08.570 --> 00:39:31.079 Steve: It's been visualized, vision, I mean, by mystics and psychics and, deep exploring psychedelic psychonauts. It's been, you know, it's been imprinted all over the indigenous prophecies, which were also received in visions more often than not, all pointing at this particular time. You know, and
00:39:31.080 --> 00:39:42.029 Steve: naysayers, eye rollers, will say, oh yeah, every generation says this. No, no, no, this is, in fact, different, because we have never reached the carrying capacity of the planet, for one thing.
00:39:42.080 --> 00:39:54.009 Steve: you know, 100 years ago, what did we have, like, 2 million people on the planet or something like that? You know, we have reached, essentially, the carrying capacity of this planet. But…
00:39:54.010 --> 00:40:06.599 Steve: There's just something inevitable about this moment. It was coming to this. It was going to come to this. It did come to this. And what this is, is that we can no longer live with ignorance of who we are.
00:40:06.600 --> 00:40:21.780 Steve: of our true nature. It's no longer sustainable. And so, we're at an unprecedented moment in the history of human beings. Absolutely unprecedented. Yes, there have been, you know, moments of great crises and novelty in the past, but not…
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:36.990 Steve: Not to this extent. This is the sort of the ultimate final one, you might say, almost what Terrence McKenna called the end of history, the end of a certain kind of history. He was talking about, you know, at a deeper level than that, but nonetheless.
00:40:37.220 --> 00:40:46.970 Steve: So, what… the story, you know, we live on… we live based on stories. It's whatever story we hear that we believe is what determines the way we live, you know.
00:40:46.970 --> 00:40:56.029 Steve: And, so what needs to happen now is the real story, the best story, needs to be told in ways that people can understand.
00:40:56.030 --> 00:41:08.880 Steve: referring to Terrence again, McKenna, he had a… I think he borrowed this and rephrased it for modern days, but it was, if the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.
00:41:08.910 --> 00:41:16.219 Steve: In other words, once you've seen, this is where the psychedelics translating into collective action of one kind or another goes.
00:41:16.220 --> 00:41:30.599 Steve: is once you've seen that love steers the stars, if you will, that there's an eternal reality behind this, that there's a loving, creative reality that we're all part of, that we're all Buddha to, then,
00:41:31.020 --> 00:41:37.650 Steve: you know, what do you do then? You know, you have to get out there and participate. And by the way.
00:41:37.650 --> 00:42:01.510 Steve: there's no rule about how you do that. Nobody should try to get too dogmatic about saying, oh, well, you must march, or you must do this, or you must do that. It's different for everybody, depending on their talents and predilections and so on. You know, for some people who are, you know, whose life… lives and minds are relatively simple, it might just simply be, every time you step out your door, you're in a state of love and peace.
00:42:01.510 --> 00:42:10.010 Steve: And, you know, people pick that up. When you go into the store to buy some bread, it's like you could smile at that person, and it looks like a real smile, and they…
00:42:10.010 --> 00:42:26.140 Steve: their day just brightens up a little, right? Or other people might be writers, educators, musicians, activists, you name it, right? So, that… but that's the story that has to get out, is that, that has… that people… because people are, people are believing
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:37.129 Steve: harmful stories, right? They're believing stories of fear. Fear is the great liar. Fear is planet Earth's great, effing liar, right?
00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:37.500 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.
00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:42.560 Steve: fear always tells you what the worst
00:42:43.140 --> 00:42:55.989 Steve: part of you is susceptible to hearing. You know, don't trust life, don't trust love, don't trust the movement of energies, don't trust other, etc, etc. Find
00:42:55.990 --> 00:43:03.699 Steve: find sources to blame for your own inability to, you know, land on Buddha nature, etc, etc.
00:43:03.700 --> 00:43:23.380 Steve: But there's another story, and it's the only story, in a sense, right? It's the real story. It's the story that we are these awakened beings by nature, and we need to find that. Quite honestly, again, this is not just something I made up or an opinion that I've come up with on my own.
00:43:23.430 --> 00:43:31.209 Steve: from a lot of the sources of wisdom that I drop on, I would say, I fear… not fear.
00:43:31.410 --> 00:43:37.209 Steve: I believe that things are gonna get worse before they get better, but that's
00:43:37.210 --> 00:43:57.239 Steve: all the more reason why we do need the real story, the believable story that makes sense, that there is a true nature, that humans are capable of arriving at it, achieving it, and manifesting it individually and collectively. So, we need, I think, ideally, we need to be thinking ahead.
00:43:57.240 --> 00:44:01.120 Steve: You know, that, we may see.
00:44:01.120 --> 00:44:12.000 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I mean, because this system has reached its comeuppance point, right? It's… it's unraveling because it's unsustainable, because it's based on spiritual misunderstanding. It just…
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:28.249 Steve: it had to unravel at some point, and this seems to be the point, sometime in… happening already now, and developing over the next several decades. So, material life might look a lot more rugged, and that in the near future, and that might cause a lot more fear and confusion.
00:44:28.250 --> 00:44:36.240 Steve: But the more people can hear the story from people who are… who have some sense that it's real, and they're not just theorizing.
00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:52.189 Steve: the more likely it is that we'll be able to make that transition, that kind of tipping point that you were talking about, can result in us arriving at one of the contributors to my book called A Mature Planetary Civilization.
00:44:53.290 --> 00:44:55.980 Steve: Yeah. You're probably at time for your.
00:44:55.980 --> 00:45:00.830 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We are at time for a break. Perfect timing for a break.
00:45:01.250 --> 00:45:02.540 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: When we come back.
00:45:03.350 --> 00:45:14.250 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: In our last segment, we'll talk about how to bring, like, the two worlds together in the sense that those who are exploring with psychedelics
00:45:14.450 --> 00:45:18.720 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And those who are not, but who are still on the path.
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:28.970 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: how do we then collectively bring that waking up, or that tipping point, into being? So, come on back.
00:47:01.680 --> 00:47:12.699 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the expansion Room, and today we're talking about the ways in which plant medicines could possibly bring humanity
00:47:12.890 --> 00:47:16.320 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: back to its sacred self. And…
00:47:17.120 --> 00:47:20.960 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The question that pops up for me right now, Steve, is that…
00:47:21.690 --> 00:47:29.149 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: That question around… For those who are not in psychedelic spaces, but they are in sacred spaces.
00:47:29.150 --> 00:47:29.610 Steve: Right.
00:47:29.610 --> 00:47:33.919 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: They are people who, are people of prayer.
00:47:34.350 --> 00:47:38.749 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: who are doing conscious service, who,
00:47:38.970 --> 00:47:51.000 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: engage in going inward through meditation and all the other sacred practices, which I also include mental health in that, because doing the work, the shadow work, doing
00:47:51.560 --> 00:47:59.920 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: the mental wellness deep dives, as some people like to call it, can also help you to get to the other side. For some people.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:00.450 Steve: It might take.
00:48:00.450 --> 00:48:13.779 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Longer, but those are the ways people can tap into, sacred space within themselves to then hopefully integrate that experience out into the world.
00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:14.240 Steve: And so how…
00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:26.189 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: How can the two parts come together, psychedelic spaces as well as non-psychedelic spaces, to bring about the collective waking up?
00:48:28.530 --> 00:48:36.919 Steve: Well, I'm probably no more of an authority on that than a few million other people around, including some of the people watching and listening to this right now, so I'll just…
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:52.730 Steve: just kind of, you know, free-range ramble here for a minute. First of all, we have been talking about that, you know, in this conversation. It's like, you know, the walking the bridge across from your own healing work to collective action.
00:48:52.730 --> 00:48:54.420 Steve: So…
00:48:54.660 --> 00:49:06.059 Steve: Yeah, again, I don't know, you know, how that happens with any particular individual, but, you know, obviously, when successful.
00:49:06.060 --> 00:49:16.109 Steve: healing work, however it's done, is bringing us closer to what you just called our sacred nature, our true nature, and
00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:28.399 Steve: what that true nature is, as far as I can tell, is, is one of inner peace and love and compassion. It's really straightforward, it's really simple, you know, it's sort of like…
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:36.050 Steve: woo-woo dependent, almost. But it's true, you know? And,
00:49:36.350 --> 00:49:39.780 Steve: And that, in itself, should be
00:49:40.340 --> 00:49:43.810 Steve: enough guidance, I would think, or enough impetus.
00:49:43.860 --> 00:49:54.870 Steve: to… to participate. I mean, we have to see ourselves, even, you know, even if we're kind of, like, for… temporarily faking it to make it, as connected.
00:49:54.870 --> 00:50:13.359 Steve: I mean, this is… this is the other sort of great open secret, in a sense, is that, you know, that the masters have been telling us for a long time, is we are one, so to speak, you know? You know, we are intimately interwoven into everything. Everything is interdependent.
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:32.290 Steve: on this planet. We, you know, and this is… I noticed in one of your questions, which we may, you know, that you would put on paper, but we may not get to, is, you know, where Indigenous wisdom comes into this. Well, not to overgeneralize or romanticize Indigenous wisdom, because Indigenous communities all over the world have been just about everything from
00:50:32.550 --> 00:50:53.679 Steve: you know, embodying great wisdom to, you know, violent cultures, etc, etc. However, there does seem to be a somewhat common thread amongst many Indigenous people, certainly, you know, Native Americans and Native Canadians that I'm aware of, and I have met a lot of these people and studied and read a lot of this stuff as well.
00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:57.669 Steve: That is Earth-connected in a way that the modern
00:50:57.670 --> 00:51:02.350 Steve: Western culture is not, particularly. And that's…
00:51:02.590 --> 00:51:15.360 Steve: That's also a huge topic because, you know, it involves our history and the kind of conditioning that's been laid upon us to see ourselves as a separate and above from dead nature, right? You know, this was… this was a…
00:51:15.630 --> 00:51:24.680 Steve: Rousseau, or I forget who it was, one of these French philosophers that, you know, posited that, you know, nature is dead. There's nothing… there's nothing alive.
00:51:24.680 --> 00:51:36.129 Steve: This is the great, sort of, uncovering that has to happen, or one of the great uncoverings, is to recognize that there's absolutely immense intelligence in everything, even rocks, you know?
00:51:36.130 --> 00:52:01.100 Steve: Native American medicine people have communicated with rocks, believe it or not, you know? Certainly, plant-human communication is extensive, animal-human connection is extensive. This is one thing the psychedelics can do, is they can open up these channels, but it's not, in terms of the kind of question you were leading this into, is that
00:52:01.100 --> 00:52:16.920 Steve: It doesn't have to be the psychedelics, they just happen to be, because of their biochemical function, at the very least, the most powerful and dramatic, you know, openers of the door, as it were. You know, gateways to opening.
00:52:17.210 --> 00:52:41.500 Steve: you know, and everyone's coming from a different place, too, you know, like, when I talk about, you know, all these past lives that we have, we've had lots of people come into this life ready to hit the road running, as it were, you know? So they don't necessarily have to do psychedelics to be able to, you know, to be of service. I come back to this notion that self-examination, not narcissistic.
00:52:41.500 --> 00:52:48.709 Steve: You know, self-analyzing, self-examination, but honest, Observation of oneself.
00:52:48.710 --> 00:52:55.919 Steve: Is essential. And if you know that you're already fairly peaceful, that you're happy.
00:52:55.930 --> 00:53:01.690 Steve: You know, more or less, and that, you're connected to your heart, then…
00:53:01.820 --> 00:53:15.750 Steve: you know, maybe that's all you need to know, and then find out what your way of being in the world is. One of my favorite terms is, following the golden thread. Following the golden thread essentially means
00:53:15.750 --> 00:53:25.820 Steve: The golden thread is the natural way of… that energy moves. You would even say the love energy moves in the world, but creative energy, or just energy, period.
00:53:25.820 --> 00:53:46.099 Steve: moves, and we have the potential of aligning ourselves with that. And so it transcends, our ego agenda, if you will. And it involves intuition. That's also a huge topic. That's one of the other, sort of, top five great open secret things, is
00:53:46.100 --> 00:54:02.329 Steve: intuition as a, as, as an innate capability has largely been buried in Western culture, and it's key, its, its, development is key to our future, but, following,
00:54:02.330 --> 00:54:08.319 Steve: your own… Inborn, not opinions, but actual intelligence.
00:54:08.640 --> 00:54:22.819 Steve: sort of unconditional intelligence is how to proceed, as far as I can tell. So, we ultimately know, we have the antenna, or atennae, to know, you know.
00:54:22.820 --> 00:54:46.350 Steve: does this feel, you know, is this the golden thread? Am I feeling this way? You know, am I feeling my way in here? I'll just briefly say that there was a book about 20 years or so ago called The Celestine Prophecy. It wasn't highly regarded by people who thought highly of good writing, but it had some interesting ideas, and one of them was this guy's… it was a sort of a metaphorical journey.
00:54:46.350 --> 00:55:10.990 Steve: But he had, like, 10 clues that would lead him to where he's going, which you could say, metaphorically, was enlightenment. The very last one was, you're going to come to… he's up in the mountains now, there's nobody around, it's just nature. He says, you're walking along this kind of, like, dirt road or whatever, and you're going to come to a fork in the road, and one of these ways is going to take you to your destination, and one of them is not.
00:55:10.990 --> 00:55:16.289 Steve: And the only way you're going to know is one side is going to light up a little bit more.
00:55:16.290 --> 00:55:25.979 Steve: It's going to be very subtle, so I could be a little brighter. These are the subtle clues that we have essentially allowed to go dormant in this culture, most of us, but…
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:41.940 Steve: That might be the best I could say in a short little summation to your question, is how we, you know, no matter whether it's psychedelics or whatever it is, how people act, is just trust your own intelligence, trust yourself, pay attention.
00:55:41.940 --> 00:55:53.830 Steve: Stay humble, stay open-hearted as much as possible, and find out what your way is, and trust that you can be guided into doing the work that you are capable of, and need to do, and want to do.
00:55:55.060 --> 00:55:56.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Beautifully said.
00:55:56.610 --> 00:56:02.959 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And woven into that, I hear integration, embodiment.
00:56:04.140 --> 00:56:08.590 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Self-expression out in the world. You'll know what to do.
00:56:08.970 --> 00:56:28.559 Steve: Yeah, and by the way, we haven't even talked about cannabis, and it looks like we're not going to be able to today, but I… several of the contributors to my cannabis book have said the same thing. They see cannabis as a potential sacrament of peace for the planet, because when it's used wisely and effectively, and that's a big question in itself.
00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:36.689 Steve: It can calm us down, settle us down into the moment, and deepen our connection to the moment, and help us be present in those ways.
00:56:36.690 --> 00:56:56.240 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation, today. I think it's an important one, and I hopefully will get a chance to have you back, and we can expand on that, in… sometime in the future. And so, for my audience.
00:56:56.310 --> 00:57:03.740 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: if there was something that you heard that really resonated for you, I encourage you to
00:57:03.740 --> 00:57:16.440 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: take some time and go inward, and allow for that reflection on that. And to, if you want to read one of Stephen Gray's books, they were also listed in the show notes.
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:22.150 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I think it's important to really allow for the questions to bubble up.
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:36.510 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: around what can plant medicines do for us, not only as individuals, but for the collective consciousness. And this is… this is definitely an ongoing conversation.
00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:53.780 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Also, if you are interested in having these kind of conversations in real time, we have a community, online through the Circle platform called The Expansion Room. And so, you can check us out there and join, and…
00:57:54.670 --> 00:58:00.179 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Allow for some more of this expanded conversation around these conversations.
00:58:00.690 --> 00:58:12.080 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Thank you so much for joining us this week, and I hope to see you all here next week, on Wednesday at 5pm on TalkRadio.nyc.
00:58:12.190 --> 00:58:13.130 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Have a good week.
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