🔥 Deals don’t only fall apart because of the competition — they often fall apart because of what happens (or doesn't) inside the sales team.
In this week's episode of Making SEAMless Sales, I’m joined by Yumei Peterson, a dynamic sales leader who built and led top-performing sales teams at Palo Alto Networks, and now Cato Networks.
We dig into:
👉 Why SDR-to-Sales and Sales-to-Presales handoffs so often break down.
👉 The hidden cost of poor communication and missed context.
👉 How aligned teams create faster deal velocity and higher win rates.
➡️ In this episode, Yumei Peterson, a seasoned sales leader who built and led high-performing sales teams, shares how to fix one of the biggest hidden challenges in B2B sales — broken handoffs between SDRs, Sales, and Presales. Yumei brings her deep experience in sales leadership, enablement, and go-to-market strategy to reveal how alignment, communication, and shared accountability can transform internal friction into faster deals and stronger customer relationships.
✅ If you’ve ever watched opportunities stall because teams weren’t fully aligned, Yumei’s practical advice and proven frameworks will show you how to bridge those gaps, empower collaboration, and create seamless sales execution that drives measurable results.
www.linkedin.com/in/yumeipeterson/
📗 Making SEAMless Sales Book Info: teamsalesdevelopment.com/making-seamless-sales-book/
💻 Making SEAMless Sales Podcast Page: teamsalesdevelopment.com/12-week-podcast-series-on-talkradio-nyc/
📝 Don't forget to submit your questions for the "Dear Arty" segment, where Art addresses your sales challenges live, and to request Art's services for SKOs, Keynotes, Seminars, or Workshops! teamsalesdevelopment.com/contact-tsd/
The conversation opens with an exploration of how sales development is evolving, emphasizing collaboration and alignment between SDRs, sales reps, and leadership. Guest Yumei Peterson discusses the importance of viewing sales as a connected ecosystem rather than a series of isolated steps. Together, she and Art introduce the idea of solution enablement — building strong relationships from the first “hello” through renewals. Their dialogue sets the tone for a deep dive into how teamwork and communication drive customer satisfaction and revenue growth.
In this segment, Yumei expands on the concept of uniting every role — from SDRs to engineers — under a shared mission and rhythm. She compares effective teamwork to the fish swimming together in Finding Nemo, where coordinated effort leads to breakthroughs. The discussion highlights “pods,” a collaborative structure that promotes accountability, shared priorities, and consistent communication. Through humor and passion, Yumei paints a clear picture of how collaboration not only improves workflow but also builds happier, more loyal customers.
The tone turns heartfelt as Yumei closes her interview with a message to sales reps — to “love on your SDRs.” She reminds listeners that these team members are the first line of contact and deserve recognition, coaching, and empathy. Art echoes her point, reinforcing how appreciation and partnership strengthen the entire sales process. The conversation ends blending professional insight with personal gratitude and encouragement to create a culture of support.
In the final segment, Art transitions into a “Dear Artie” Q&A, tackling common challenges between SDRs and sales reps — especially around lead qualification and communication gaps. He emphasizes redefining what “qualified” truly means and aligning expectations across every role, from sales to pre-sales and customer success. Drawing from his book Making Seamless Sales, Art urges teams to adopt a continuous, collaborative mindset that treats the buying process as a shared journey. The episode concludes with a call to action for sales professionals to build unity, focus on customer success, and carry the message of seamless collaboration into every interaction
00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:47.669 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Making Seamless Sales show.
00:00:47.810 --> 00:00:51.910 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Whether you're listening live or to a replay of the show on any of our channels.
00:00:52.170 --> 00:01:09.570 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Please drop a note in the chat, like, subscribe, and share so that you can spread the good word about this show. Also, feel free to submit a question for the Dear Artie segment at the end of the show, where we take questions from viewers about their real-life sales challenges.
00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:21.400 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: As usual, we're coming to you tonight live from Mars, Pennsylvania, and this is episode 10 of the Making Seamless show. I can't believe that we're only going to have 2 left in this,
00:01:21.610 --> 00:01:33.999 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: in this series, I suppose you want to call it, debating, you know, what exactly I'm gonna do may take a little hiatus and then come back again, but it's been a real blast, and I appreciate everybody for tuning in.
00:01:34.090 --> 00:01:52.700 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The show hasn't even been on the podcast channels for 30 days, and we've already got over 4,800 downloads, which I think is a really good sign. So keep up the good word, share it with others, and let's, see what we could do to learn from each other and help each other out.
00:01:52.720 --> 00:02:03.089 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, on this show, after the break, we're going to be joined by Yumi Peterson, who specializes in helping sales development and business development
00:02:03.230 --> 00:02:11.000 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Representative teams, To get the best out of their… engagements,
00:02:11.770 --> 00:02:25.840 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: She helps with the buying process, and traditionally, where this was responsible for getting the prospect to talk with the salesperson, realize that they're critical to the entire buying process, so not just the very beginning. We'll talk about that.
00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:40.479 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Also, a subtle but significant distinction that we're gonna get into at the second segment of the show, so stay tuned, because while it might be a role that typically is seen at the beginning, the idea of it
00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:45.509 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Setting the stage for all the rest of the sales processes is what we're gonna dig into.
00:02:45.810 --> 00:02:50.349 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, I'm Art Fromm, founder and president of Team Sales Development.
00:02:50.510 --> 00:03:02.190 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And I'm focused on sales transformation, helping B2B sales teams increase revenue, win rate, and client satisfaction through workshops, keynotes, and my book.
00:03:02.590 --> 00:03:15.830 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Making seamless sales of the same name as the podcast, I provide actionable sales transformation frameworks and systems for the pre-sales and sales community, based on my experience.
00:03:15.970 --> 00:03:23.409 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I've mentioned this before, but just so that those of you who may not know, I was initially a customer and implementer of
00:03:23.440 --> 00:03:27.720 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Product lifecycle in information management technology for 8 years.
00:03:27.730 --> 00:03:44.709 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Then I was in, sales and sales management and pre-sales roles for 8 years, 8 to 10 years with software companies, and then all leading to the past 25 years, focused on sales enablement, and I formed my own company in 2009.
00:03:44.710 --> 00:03:53.889 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, I never thought this is where I'd be at, I didn't plan on it, but it's been a blast, and I'm so blessed and honored to be able to share with you what I've learned.
00:03:54.180 --> 00:04:02.459 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Speaking of which, in the book, I've curated key interconnected concepts from my entire
00:04:02.900 --> 00:04:08.300 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Consultative Sales Portfolio for your benefit, and that includes portions of
00:04:08.330 --> 00:04:26.250 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Great demo, which I provide, Mastering Technical Sales, and Opportunity Snapshot, selling to executives, Customer Buying Process, and so much more. So, tonight, we're going to dive into, as I started to mention, the beginning of the sales process, and the importance of that early engagement
00:04:26.810 --> 00:04:46.419 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: when the buyer or stakeholder first starts to talk to a human, and then how that sets the stage all the way through sales, pre-sales, implementation, and client success. So feel free to pick up the book to learn more about all those stages, or your e-book at your favorite online store.
00:04:46.710 --> 00:04:49.959 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Before we get into tonight's show, I just wanna…
00:04:50.170 --> 00:04:56.520 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: have a shout-out to last week's guest on Episode 9, which was October 2nd, Peter Cohan.
00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:16.289 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Creator of the Great Demo Methodology and book, as well as the author of Doing Discovery, and his new story compilation, Suspending Disbelief. Peter and I have been partners for a long time, and I'm a Great Demo Certified provider, so we discussed how slowing down the sales process
00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:28.939 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: and focusing on teamwork between the sales rep, so the AE or the AM, at the beginning of the deeper engagement, and then the pre-sales or sales engineer person.
00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:46.809 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: can actually speed up the end results. So, yes, it takes a little longer on the front end, and today we'll even go farther to the left with Yumi. However, all of those stages can help with a nice, smooth close as it moves toward the end of the engagement, and then the start of
00:05:46.810 --> 00:05:57.800 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: implementation and success for the client. We unpacked how discovery is the engine of successful demos, and how skipping it can lead to generic, forgettable presentations.
00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:12.000 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We talked about this, the, how Peter's own frustrations when he was trying to buy a CRM system inspired Great Demo, and why the Harbor Tour demos, often called the Golden Demo.
00:06:12.910 --> 00:06:24.010 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Those long, one-size-fits-all walkthroughs are sales and buyer killers. We do not want to be doing those type of demos, believe it or not. So we explored the preferred alternative.
00:06:24.010 --> 00:06:35.729 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Which is a story-driven demo that's aligned with stakeholder-specific needs. And that's going to truly inspire the stakeholders and drive action to implement the solution.
00:06:35.930 --> 00:06:53.889 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We also introduced the situation slide, which is a game-changing way to ensure that the delivery of the demos is laser-focused on the client's needs and specific capabilities, and avoids the ineffective and dangerous spray-and-pray approach, delivering
00:06:54.260 --> 00:06:56.480 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: To buyers what matters most.
00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:21.339 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, if you missed it, go back and have a listen, and also check out all the other shows and episodes and many more resources on TeamSalesDevelopment.com, that's my website. Look under the Events and Articles tab, where you can find all the other show information, as well as other webinars and things like that that I've been involved with. By the way, a couple of other things you'll see on there is that
00:07:21.650 --> 00:07:40.820 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The photos and the video of the NASDAQ billboard event where I was on the billboard in Times Square a week or so ago has been posted, as well as, other information, including… I want to show those of you who are watching, or if you can go back and watch the replay.
00:07:40.820 --> 00:07:43.479 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I'm also going to be in a new.
00:07:43.480 --> 00:08:04.450 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Blue Talks compilation book, it's gonna be Volume 15, which is not published yet, and it's gonna feature John Gray, who's the author of Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus. That book, the new compilation book, Volume 15, is in final days of pre-launch, so if you wouldn't mind, go to the website.
00:08:04.670 --> 00:08:16.639 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Teamsalesdevelopment.com under the events and articles page. Check out the pre-launch information and sign up to help us get this to a number one bestseller, internationally.
00:08:16.900 --> 00:08:23.240 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: when it does get launched. One side… one side note about this, which is kind of synergistic, is
00:08:23.330 --> 00:08:38.849 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I live, as I mentioned, in Mars, Pennsylvania, and I am male, so I'm a man from Mars. And, in my chapter in the book, which is… turns out it's gonna be chapter 1 of the compilation book, I…
00:08:38.980 --> 00:08:41.970 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: titled it, The Art of Persuasion.
00:08:42.140 --> 00:08:58.569 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So you may be familiar with John Gray's book, which addresses common disconnects between men and women as far as communications, and then ways that they can work together better. And in a similar way, I'm writing about the challenges that
00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:04.800 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Anyone has, in terms of persuasion or sales, to help somebody to make a decision.
00:09:04.860 --> 00:09:15.179 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And the disconnects that can occur that would derail that agreement. You know, and this can be anything from convincing somebody that's on a committee, or a…
00:09:15.180 --> 00:09:25.520 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: family member, or a C-level executive or decision maker, so check that out. Please help with the pre-sale by ordering now on the webpage.
00:09:25.590 --> 00:09:33.709 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Now, just a bit about tonight's guest, Yumi Peterson, who we will get to after the first break, which will be coming up here in a little bit.
00:09:33.800 --> 00:09:38.860 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Interesting story. I just want to rewind the clock a little bit here, and…
00:09:39.680 --> 00:09:47.900 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: help you out with how this all got started, and how Yumi, and I first met. So, we actually met early in 2019,
00:09:47.900 --> 00:10:05.789 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: when I was delivering yet another business value discovery and whiteboarding workshop for an all-sales engineer audience, which Yumi attended. Now, key point here is, it was for pre-sales, it was all sales engineers, but Yumi attended. And this is why it's interesting, is because Yumi was not
00:10:05.790 --> 00:10:17.050 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: in pre-sales, or even a sales engineer at that time. So, as I've mentioned many times on this show, and in my webinars, and in my book.
00:10:17.170 --> 00:10:34.170 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Whenever I deliver a workshop for a pre-sales-only audience, and some… a lot of times it is pre-sales only, sometimes it's sales only, sometimes it's combined, but in this case, it was a pre-sales-only audience, and what I typically find is, inevitably.
00:10:34.170 --> 00:10:38.310 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Within the first hour or so of my workshop.
00:10:38.350 --> 00:10:42.999 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: One of the pre-sales people will say, my sales rep needs to hear this too.
00:10:43.560 --> 00:11:02.619 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And with the idea being that whatever pre-sales is getting, there's some really good nuggets in there, and they apparently don't see their salespeople doing this, so they would like their salespeople to hear some of it as well. So, it turns out, at the time that Yumi was a corporate sales development program manager.
00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:21.770 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: who's responsible for setting a strong foundation for early-in-career sales professionals. Not SEs, but sales professionals. And even very, very early in the engagement, as I alluded to a moment ago, in a business development-type role, a business development representative role.
00:11:22.050 --> 00:11:27.970 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: BDRs are typically one of the first points of contact for a potential buyer.
00:11:28.570 --> 00:11:35.530 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And they handle, typically, inbound and outbound calls, qualifying the prospect to determine fit.
00:11:35.530 --> 00:11:54.209 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: and then passing them along to sales, who digs in deeper, so a sales rep, like an account manager or account executive, and then they typically work with a sales engineer. So I was doing this workshop for sales engineers, and Yumi, who was really working on the very, very early sales engagement
00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:55.950 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: personnel.
00:11:55.970 --> 00:12:08.789 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: was sitting in on the class. So what was Yumi doing sitting in on a workshop for SEs? And we could probably check in with her as far as how she heard about it, but the reason that she was there is because she believed
00:12:08.790 --> 00:12:16.579 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: it would be helpful for those early-in-career sales professionals. So she sat in for the full 2-day workshop. Now.
00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:17.770 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: After that.
00:12:17.880 --> 00:12:32.769 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We talked, obviously, and based on portions of what Yumi experienced with the SEs and portions of my portfolio, we crafted modules specific to the sales development needs and plugged them into her overall BDR program.
00:12:32.770 --> 00:12:42.029 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, for several years, I had the pleasure of working with Yumi as we developed and continued to refine the program, delivered it each year, and even
00:12:42.340 --> 00:12:58.330 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Then, Yumi was still advancing in her career to become Sales Academy Program Manager, and then strategic go-to-market program manager. Yumi had a vision for seamless sales, and she executed on it. That's why I invited her on the show.
00:12:58.750 --> 00:13:18.089 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: She supplemented the standard corporate and product knowledge onboarding training for young and emergent BDRs with consultative sales knowledge, starting with the end in mind, and teaching them about the buying process, qualification, initial discovery, even virtual presentation mastery and closing the deal.
00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:34.490 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, some of this was directly needed for the BDR role, yet, here's the important point. Many of these topics that I worked on with Yumi and she introduced to them was for downstream functions, and this is key. So, the BDRs gained a sense of the rest of the process.
00:13:34.580 --> 00:13:52.370 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So their job could be made better, and they could tee that off, that relationship, off in a way that led to greater success. Eventually, her predecessor, Celia, who was also a visionary, expanded the program to include professional sales, services, and renewals, which rounded out the buying cycle.
00:13:52.370 --> 00:13:59.669 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So the result was really a model for how early and late-stage sales roles can be equipped for success.
00:13:59.670 --> 00:14:18.769 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: While in the background, or supplemental to that, the SEs are being equipped with complementary consultative selling capabilities, and all that leading to success in streamlining sales and removing friction for the buyer. So with this as a backdrop, we're gonna, in a minute here, be
00:14:18.790 --> 00:14:37.570 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: tuning in, Yumi, so we'll explore critical challenges facing the sales organization, the often broken handoff between the business development representatives on the front end, and the downstream sales teams. So we'll be back in just a minute, and we'll be talking with Yumi Peterson. Stay tuned.
00:16:20.710 --> 00:16:28.819 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Welcome back, everybody, and it is my pleasure to introduce Yumi Peterson to the show. So, hello, Yumi.
00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:29.800 Yumei Peterson: Hi!
00:16:30.010 --> 00:16:40.850 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Hey, as I mentioned in the previous segment, everybody, Yumi is a dynamic leader with over 11 years of experience building and leading high-performing inside sales teams.
00:16:40.850 --> 00:16:52.590 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: During her 8 years at Palo Alto Network, she trailblazed a career path with the creation of 3 new roles in the company, which was during the time when we were working together, so she was just, like.
00:16:52.590 --> 00:17:00.460 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: creating new roles as she went, and then off she went, onward and upward. Her expertise spanned sales leadership, enablement.
00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:20.410 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: operations, go-to-market strategy, strategic program management. Beyond professional achievements, Yumi is also deeply committed to giving back to the community. She's served as an active advisor and leader within employee network organizations, including the Women's Network and Early in Career Network.
00:17:20.410 --> 00:17:36.800 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: fostering an inclusive, empowering workplace. On a personal note, Yunmi and her husband of over 20 years are proud parents of two thriving teenagers, aged 20 and 18. As her children gain independence, she's embracing new adventures, spending more time in nature, hiking and camping.
00:17:36.800 --> 00:17:43.350 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: while investing in her growth as a writer and public speaker. So, Yumi, welcome to the show.
00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:46.149 Yumei Peterson: Thanks, Ard. Great to be here. I'm excited.
00:17:46.290 --> 00:17:54.779 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I'm so glad you're here. So, maybe you could briefly describe your current focus, how you got here, and maybe even just give… just rewind to that prelude that I gave, and…
00:17:54.780 --> 00:17:55.480 Yumei Peterson: Yeah.
00:17:55.480 --> 00:18:03.540 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: What made you sit in on that SE training so many years ago that launched our relationship and what we've been able to do together?
00:18:03.540 --> 00:18:28.389 Yumei Peterson: Yeah, I was glad you told that story, because I was going through memory lane with you, and I remember sitting in that meeting because we were trying to figure out the best way to equip our early and career academy reps. We had created a brand new academy for Palo Alto Networks, where we hired a lot of college graduates to come in for their first sales-type role as they kick off their career, and it was evident that as a part of the sales academy, we need to provide
00:18:28.390 --> 00:18:52.539 Yumei Peterson: them with some sales training, and we wanted to be better aligned with what the engineers were getting prepped to do, because at the end of the day, we were selling IT technology, and we've worked very closely with the engineers, so when, I think it was Martin or somebody said, hey, we're doing this, you want to come sit in and see what it's like, and maybe we can take parts of this and leverage it for your program, and I said, I'm always down to learn, it can't hurt in any way, so I did. I sat in on two.
00:18:52.600 --> 00:19:15.939 Yumei Peterson: days with you, I took a lot of no's. I started to tinker and think about, man, did these parts is the right things for us to teach the development reps at this time, so that they can have a firm foundation to be successful in the future. And Art, you'll be really proud to know that a lot of those reps who are part of those first, second cohorts with us, they're all in the field, many of them in the field, being very successful.
00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:24.330 Yumei Peterson: being great sellers, and I do believe that we played a little part in their success and in their progression in their sales journey.
00:19:24.330 --> 00:19:27.509 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Wow, that… yeah, that warms my heart. That's wonderful. Excellent.
00:19:27.510 --> 00:19:33.030 Yumei Peterson: So, your current focus and how you got here, I mean, we covered a lot of the story.
00:19:33.770 --> 00:19:57.959 Yumei Peterson: You did, yeah, I had a very dynamic career at Palo Alto Networks, and I have left Palo since. I've been at this new company called Cato Networks the past, I guess, 8 months now. I'm trailblazing here again, creating a brand new team from the ground up. We started out as an inside sales organization initially, but now we are a full-fledged commercial sales organization. We grew from 3 reps to 10 people, and we're gonna continue to grow.
00:19:58.060 --> 00:20:16.969 Yumei Peterson: And we service our customers in the SMB commercial segment. So now, I am a full-blown sales leader, so taking all those things that I've learned throughout my time at Palo and HP, and putting that to use here, leading out and building out this team to be successful in our market.
00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:31.150 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Awesome. So, let's start with, the idea about the SDRs and sales rep handoff, and what… what can cause, some of the handoffs to not go as smoothly as they should?
00:20:31.550 --> 00:20:55.419 Yumei Peterson: Yeah, you know, unfortunately, I've seen this happen more often than not, and I see people talking about it from both sides of the spectrum. I've seen SDRs being frustrated that they hand off a lead that they think is really great, but then it kind of sits there, never gets converted, and they don't get credit for that, right? And then I've heard from the sales rep side, they'll say, oh, I never get any great leads from the SDRs, and they're not bringing us a ton of value. Now, of course.
00:20:55.900 --> 00:21:05.199 Yumei Peterson: It's a little bit of both, and I really think at the crux of it, the real issue here is the misalignment of
00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:29.629 Yumei Peterson: I think, one, appreciation for each other, and the teamwork that is needed to make this very functional. We need to have our lanes, we need to know what each of us are bringing to the equation, and that the SDRs are playing a critical role in the initial portion of a sales cycle, and then the reps have their role to play, and then the pre-sales engineers have their role to play, and then, all together, we gotta get a deal to the finish line.
00:21:29.820 --> 00:21:51.519 Yumei Peterson: And so, when we talk about those handoffs, I think a lot of the times, it is that… the lack of accountability, or maybe accountability for themselves. Like, hey, I, as the SCR, and I'm gonna own this aspect of my job, and then the accountability as a rep to say, hey, I'm gonna own this aspect of it, and the team really coming together to working together as one unit.
00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:57.979 Yumei Peterson: A lot of the times, I would say that qualification is a big miss. Discovering qualification
00:21:58.040 --> 00:22:10.469 Yumei Peterson: can be a challenge, right? And if we don't… we're not aligned on what really that means for each other, then there could be that disconnect, right? The SDR, the BDR could come out thinking, like, oh man, I really qualified this lead.
00:22:10.490 --> 00:22:20.699 Yumei Peterson: And then if the receiving rep feels like this is not fully qualified, I still have so many questions, I really needed you to ask these questions first. Well, then immediately, right, there is going to be a disconnect.
00:22:20.710 --> 00:22:45.379 Yumei Peterson: So I think it's really important that those two partners come together and really establish what does a good lead look like, and what kind of questions do we need to be asking a prospect or a customer in those initial conversations, right? We don't have to go into the nitty-gritty of every single thing about this customer in those initial conversations, but we do need to understand the high-level band's qualifications, right?
00:22:45.380 --> 00:23:09.509 Yumei Peterson: hey, do you have a budget? Do we have any kind of line of sight to a budget, right? Are you the right person? Who is the authority figure here? What is the need? I think that is the most important thing. Not all customers are going to give you dollars right away on the first call. Not everyone will be able to tell you, like, hey, go and talk to so-and-so, but we can have a real conversation around, hey, why are you looking for something? What is that need in your environment, right?
00:23:09.510 --> 00:23:25.540 Yumei Peterson: what are you really looking for, and how could I help you? And if we can at least get to that, I feel like we'll have a really fruitful next call, which can lead to a successful demo and technical calls and things like that to the finish line. So I would say one of those things is definitely,
00:23:25.620 --> 00:23:32.450 Yumei Peterson: Qualifications and misalignment on expectations on what a good qualified lead looks like, so that we can
00:23:32.560 --> 00:23:34.030 Yumei Peterson: move that forward.
00:23:34.030 --> 00:23:34.650 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Oh.
00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:36.350 Yumei Peterson: Go ahead.
00:23:36.350 --> 00:23:55.869 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: If I could just ask real quick, so, I mean, it would seem so obvious that qualification, which also is the start of discovery, should be logical, natural thing to do. You mentioned that there could be some things, like maybe it wasn't done properly or not shared. So, what are some of the causes for the situation of lack of qualification? It would just seem like that should be natural.
00:23:56.860 --> 00:24:01.060 Yumei Peterson: You know, I think the most obvious one is the lack of training.
00:24:01.060 --> 00:24:17.379 Yumei Peterson: Right? A lot of SDRs and BDRs in the IT industry, anyways, that I have been privy to, a lot of these folks, it's their first job, you know, out of college, or maybe one of their first jobs, even… even with a little bit of experience, so they're still pretty early in career, and they don't know what they don't know.
00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:34.419 Yumei Peterson: And so they have a lot of hustle, they have a lot of heart, they're out there, they're making the dials, and they're getting on, but they don't really have that guidance around what good looks like. So I would say that lack of training and enablement is a big thing, which is why the Academy was such an important part of what we've established, you know, at Palo
00:24:34.420 --> 00:24:38.549 Yumei Peterson: Alto Networks at that time, and we're trying to get established here at Cato Networks.
00:24:38.550 --> 00:24:40.080 Yumei Peterson: As well.
00:24:40.150 --> 00:25:00.059 Yumei Peterson: And I would say, this is an interesting thing, but I've seen this happen, is when the leaders put the wrong emphasis on metrics over the quality of the leads, we start to see different types of behaviors. So, some leaders will say, hey, I want you to make 100 dials and send out 200 emails, and that's what good looks like, versus
00:25:00.290 --> 00:25:13.000 Yumei Peterson: For me, personally, I lead my team to outcomes. And so I'll say, I don't care how many dials or how many calls you're making, but what we do need to get are these outcomes. And so quality matters more to me, because ultimately, we look at
00:25:13.190 --> 00:25:31.200 Yumei Peterson: revenue impact, right? All of the things that you're doing, if you're making 100 dials, but you're not able to convert those opportunities to close, then it's meaningless to the organization. So sometimes we need to put… when we put the wrong emphasis on the wrong things, it drives a certain behavior that is not
00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:33.839 Yumei Peterson: Conducive to what we're really trying to get to.
00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:48.969 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah, and specifically on training, it seems like there's a lot of training that happens during onboarding, but one of the things that you and I worked on that was so important was the idea about, and we'll get into this a little bit more after the break, but…
00:25:48.970 --> 00:25:56.210 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The idea of knowing more about the entire process, as opposed to just corporate, you know, corporate training and
00:25:56.210 --> 00:26:12.799 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: product training, which is needed, but a lot more. So, what are the implications, then, if this isn't happening, you know, qualification's not happening, the information sharing isn't happening and things, when those critical things are not shared before this continues on in the process.
00:26:12.800 --> 00:26:19.380 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: What… what are some of the, dire consequences? What are some of the downside of that?
00:26:19.670 --> 00:26:22.720 Yumei Peterson: Oh, goodness, do we have enough time to talk about all the different…
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:23.500 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Listing them, right?
00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:26.420 Yumei Peterson: Because there are so many, and…
00:26:26.830 --> 00:26:37.289 Yumei Peterson: the… I think the biggest thing is wasted time, on all sides. Wasted time for the customer, wasted time for the SDR, for the rev, for the pre-sales engineer, for the whole organization, because
00:26:37.290 --> 00:26:55.369 Yumei Peterson: it is just as important to qualify out an opportunity as it is to qualify in an opportunity. And if we start spending time on deals that should not have been… been spent that much time and effort on, then, you know, woe to us. So I would say that time is a big thing. And then the next big thing is…
00:26:55.370 --> 00:27:01.619 Yumei Peterson: just loss of credibility with the customer, right? Everybody gets frustrated in that whole process, right? What…
00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:18.420 Yumei Peterson: I… it's too painful to say this, but I've been on too many calls where we would get on that second or third call with the customer. The customer's second or third call with this company, but they've had that first call with an SDR, and then they had another call with so-and-so, and then another call. And then I've seen customers say, like.
00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:41.200 Yumei Peterson: guys, I feel like I said the same thing over and over again, right? Do you guys share notes? Like, do you guys talk at all? And that was so painful to watch, and when we are not effectively communicating with each other throughout these stages, then we're really putting really bad branding out there, quite frankly, for the whole company, because we are the face of the company, to say, like, hey, you're not important enough for us to take a couple minutes to
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:58.459 Yumei Peterson: debrief prior to coming to you and doing our homework before we come to you. And then we get into that whole mode of just call after call after call after call, and we're not stopping to really make the most of those engagements. So I would say those two things are big ones, but there are so many other implications we can definitely dive into.
00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:01.369 Yumei Peterson: As we discussed.
00:28:01.370 --> 00:28:06.959 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, salespeople, and BDRs included, of course.
00:28:07.020 --> 00:28:25.349 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: don't come with trust, so you're already at a deficit, and now doing the things you just mentioned is gonna make it worse. So, real quick, before we go to break in one minute, how does this then translate into, you know, what is the impact on the team's ability then to have proper business outcomes?
00:28:25.350 --> 00:28:29.309 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: What are some of the metrics that get impacted as a result of these things?
00:28:29.820 --> 00:28:42.029 Yumei Peterson: So one of the main metrics that we would look at is conversion rates. We look a lot like conversion rates to make sure that the deals are starting from pipeline all the way to the finish line.
00:28:42.070 --> 00:29:04.470 Yumei Peterson: In the time that we're given. So I think that is a really important conversion… conversion rates are really important. And people don't talk about this, but I believe forecast accuracy… Forecasts people typically think happens towards the end of a sales cycle, but I believe that real forecast accuracy starts at the beginning, because if we're asking the right questions all the way through the cycle, from the very beginning, then the rep…
00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:14.109 Yumei Peterson: It's foolproof. If they know the answers to the questions that your sales leader is going to know, to qualify an opportunity to be an actual committable deal.
00:29:14.110 --> 00:29:27.530 Yumei Peterson: It can only happen if you have been asking the right questions all the way throughout the line, so you can answer all those MedPit questions, or band questions, or however way, you qualify them. So I think forecast accuracy is a huge impact to this.
00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:37.829 Yumei Peterson: And sales cycles. If you do this right, time. We save so much time being able to shorten those cycles and get the deals to the finish line even faster.
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:49.749 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Alright, so with that in mind, when we come back from the break, we're going to talk about what can be done to avoid these pitfalls, and then the benefits of that. So we'll be back in a couple minutes here.
00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:50.489 Yumei Peterson: Sounds good.
00:31:24.670 --> 00:31:42.339 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Alright, welcome back. So, talking with guest Yumi Peterson, and we just talked about some of the, challenges for SDRs in terms of proper handoffs for the rest of the sales cycle, and then what are the implications of that, and the pitfalls of that as far as the…
00:31:42.340 --> 00:31:50.470 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: especially effect on the sales, forecast and those types of things. Now let's shift, Yumi, to…
00:31:50.470 --> 00:31:59.580 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the idea about what can be done about this. So, what are some of the things that you've seen that effectively helps SDRs
00:31:59.610 --> 00:32:07.849 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: help the sales reps, and then ultimately help pre-sales. What are some of those steps that can be done by management or by themselves?
00:32:08.190 --> 00:32:09.870 Yumei Peterson: Yeah, for sure.
00:32:10.250 --> 00:32:14.260 Yumei Peterson: In my time, I have been so fortunate to
00:32:14.610 --> 00:32:31.009 Yumei Peterson: to work with so many amazing SDRs, right? Age is but a number. And they come out guns a-blazing out of their college or whatever career they've had prior, and they're just so eager to get to the next step and to be successful. And sometimes they just get caught up in all of that.
00:32:31.010 --> 00:32:38.259 Yumei Peterson: craze. And so, the main thing I want the SDRs to understand in terms of how they can really help the salespeople is, one.
00:32:38.840 --> 00:32:48.219 Yumei Peterson: Remember that a lead is not just a number, it's not just a lead. A lead is basically you on a piece of paper getting out to the entire sales organization.
00:32:48.370 --> 00:33:04.899 Yumei Peterson: So, be proud of it. Make sure that every lead, if, let's say, a CEO gets a piece of that email that has all of your lead information in it, how would you feel? Would you feel really proud of the work that you've done and all the information that you've gathered so that the rest of the team can really benefit from them?
00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:18.600 Yumei Peterson: I've seen some real incredible leads where I will read through them, and I'm like, wow, I mean, I guess we can go just straight to a demo. I don't even know that we need another call in between, because this person's done all that work to get us from Stage 1 to stage two, right?
00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:38.459 Yumei Peterson: I've also seen, unfortunately, a lot of SDRs that do the bare minimum, and they'll just take a template and fill it out, and have all kinds of typos in it, and it's not even fully done, empty slots, right? That's sloppy work. And so, for me, it's back to the whole quantity versus quality. If you don't… if you're not going to be proud of what you're putting out there, it's not worth it.
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:44.169 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah, I think you've even mentioned and called it, like, their personal brand, right?
00:33:44.170 --> 00:33:49.350 Yumei Peterson: Absolutely. It is your face on a piece of paper. It is this… the lead equals your brand.
00:33:49.350 --> 00:34:06.840 Yumei Peterson: And you never know where that brand is gonna take you. There are many times I took a lead and I forwarded it straight to someone and said, wow, look at this person, they're gonna be the next superstar. Because that is how important it is. And so that will be the most important thing. And also, don't limit yourself by your title or your role.
00:34:06.840 --> 00:34:21.390 Yumei Peterson: No one's gonna be mad at you because you were able to take the process a little bit further, and you were able to dig a little bit deeper with the customer to get even more information out of them and do proper qualification, because you're saving the sales rep and the pre-engineer's time.
00:34:21.389 --> 00:34:45.819 Yumei Peterson: precious time, and then they start to trust you. And that trust and credibility, there's not an amount of money that you can pay to gain that, and that starts with every good lead, that now, as they get one good lead, and another good lead, and another good lead, that's what leads into credibility and trust. So I would say, slow down and really look at the kind of work that you're doing, and the only way that you can get a really good lead is if you're not afraid to ask.
00:34:46.020 --> 00:34:54.530 Yumei Peterson: the questions. A lot of the time, CSCRs don't have anything to put on paper because they didn't ask the questions. Therefore, they have no answers.
00:34:54.530 --> 00:35:19.160 Yumei Peterson: And too many cycles go, even some reps I've seen, too afraid to ask certain questions. Some reps I know definitely afraid of asking the customer, do you have budget? I'm like, what's gonna happen if you ask that question? They're gonna throw something at you through the phone call? I don't know what you think is gonna happen. The worst thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna say, I don't feel comfortable telling you that, or they'll tell you something else and you dig in. But it is our job in order to help the customer to ask the right
00:35:19.160 --> 00:35:23.279 Yumei Peterson: question at the right times in order for us to get the right outcomes.
00:35:23.410 --> 00:35:41.490 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I think it's critical, and you mentioned before the break that one of the things to not measure on is, like, just how many meetings are you making, how many calls are you getting? It's about the quality of the calls and the quality of the meeting, and I've seen too many times when SDRs or BDRs are just trained, your job is to get the meeting.
00:35:41.490 --> 00:35:49.619 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But there's more than that. So what else is needed for SDRs to be prepared for more ownership of the sales process, then?
00:35:50.120 --> 00:36:13.959 Yumei Peterson: Enable yourself. Don't wait for somebody else to teach you something. There is so much content out there. You can become an expert at the product with all the content that your company is throwing at you, I'm sure. There are videos and decks and all that. You don't need to wait for somebody else to teach you a skill set, you can go and find it. There's so much content out there on YouTube, there's so much content, even from someone like you out there on podcasts and things like that.
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:18.330 Yumei Peterson: If you've got the desire to be better, and yeah, you've got a book, you've got a book that you can read.
00:36:19.020 --> 00:36:30.609 Yumei Peterson: listen to this podcast series. There are so many avenues these days where there's no shortage to learn, and I would say go and teach yourself some of these skill sets, and then go and practice, because practice is really what
00:36:30.610 --> 00:36:43.810 Yumei Peterson: practice makes perfect, right? I'm definitely a big fan of that phrasing, and because it's true, you've got to go and get after it, and don't wait for someone to define what your success looks like. You need to go and show them what success
00:36:43.810 --> 00:36:48.000 Yumei Peterson: Success can be, right? Based on your outcomes and your work effort.
00:36:48.170 --> 00:36:53.660 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah, and one of the things that we've worked on together is also just starting with the end in mind.
00:36:53.660 --> 00:36:54.360 Yumei Peterson: Absolutely.
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:59.570 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: what, you know, the end isn't the meeting that an SDR gets, the end is the client being successful.
00:36:59.570 --> 00:37:03.129 Yumei Peterson: And implementing and consuming your solution.
00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:13.329 Yumei Peterson: I oftentimes… I've interviewed a lot of SDRs and BDRs who want to get their first chance at being in a sales rep, and I ask them, like, what are some metrics that you think that you should know?
00:37:13.460 --> 00:37:29.700 Yumei Peterson: What are some metrics as an SDR that you think will matter in this next role? And I asked them about conversion rates. I asked them about, okay, you tell me that you had this many leads and created this much pipeline. I'm more curious about how much of that pipeline is… has actually closed.
00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:30.870 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yep.
00:37:31.120 --> 00:37:48.169 Yumei Peterson: Tell me the whole story. So, I always, ask the SDR as they're preparing for an interview for their first quota-carrying role, like, me, as an interviewer, I want to know the whole story. What is your true impact, right? Because that lead, that first lead, if that just ended there.
00:37:48.170 --> 00:38:03.979 Yumei Peterson: then it doesn't really tell a meaningful story. But if you can tell a real meaningful story about how you strategically went after a customer, and you were able to get them engaged, and you were able to get this lead going, and that lead turned into a demo, and that demo turned into a POV, and that POV turned into a PO in the end.
00:38:04.030 --> 00:38:22.609 Yumei Peterson: now you've got something there, because this is a repeatable process that we can do. So, 100%, I tell the reps, like, the end goal for you, if that is to be a quota-carrying rep, then think that way in your job today. Don't wait until you get a promotion to start thinking and looking and acting like a salesperson.
00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:27.450 Yumei Peterson: Right? Own that title and own that responsibility in the given role that you have right now.
00:38:28.020 --> 00:38:37.229 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Absolutely. And one of the… one of the things that I learned way, way, long, long, long time ago, and it has to do with, like, Six Sigma and continuous improvement and things like that, is…
00:38:37.490 --> 00:38:47.540 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: think about what is somebody going to do with what you give them. So, you know, if you're setting up a meeting, like you said, it's got to be something that helps continue. We want
00:38:47.540 --> 00:39:01.319 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: momentum to continue this right through the rest of the process, and as you said, that sets up easy success for sales and for pre-sales and everybody down the road. And now the client has a great experience, and they're going to be more likely to renew, come back, expand.
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:02.020 Yumei Peterson: Absolutely.
00:39:02.020 --> 00:39:02.790 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: like that.
00:39:03.130 --> 00:39:04.060 Yumei Peterson: Yeah, yeah.
00:39:04.700 --> 00:39:18.200 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, in terms of what sales teams need to implement these types of things, talk briefly about, you know, systems or methodologies and the importance of that, because it shouldn't be
00:39:18.200 --> 00:39:28.450 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: just a paper process, it shouldn't be just a check-in-the-box type thing. Should be more of a mindset, right, in terms of thinking about implementation of a methodology, for example.
00:39:28.450 --> 00:39:34.779 Yumei Peterson: 100%. So, at Palo, it was MedPick, and a lot of people know about MedPick. At Cato, it's…
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:55.089 Yumei Peterson: Apollo is Medic, and then here is Medic, so it's just slightly different. And I think… I do agree with you that it is definitely more of a mindset. It shouldn't be a checklist, but it's very logical, right? As you're going through a sales cycle, sure, you're going to want to know who the economic buyers are, you're going to want to know what the decision process is, you're going to want to know what the paper process is.
00:39:55.090 --> 00:40:08.399 Yumei Peterson: Like, all those things, we need to know all that. I think people get overwhelmed, right? Because, like, oh, there's so many things I have to know right away. But the thing is, we have time, and we need to know the right things at the right times of the sales cycle, right?
00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:31.199 Yumei Peterson: The paper process is not really important to us when we're just trying to get them to agree to a meeting, right? As we get further down the sales cycle, yes, we absolutely need to know who needs to sign the papers, what is the process, what does all those things look like, but we can help identify the champion. We can identify, hey, what do you have in there today? What other solutions are you considering? Like, there are definitely things that
00:40:31.250 --> 00:40:41.629 Yumei Peterson: an SDR or BDR or a rep can discover and qualify earlier on in the sales process. So I think those are pretty fundamental things. I used…
00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:56.770 Yumei Peterson: bant a lot, because it's very… it's very simple, and it's not overwhelming, and it does cover a lot of the bases, so I do use that. I think in your book, too, Art, you… you mentioned something called SOS, and I think that is a really great model, too. What are your thoughts on that?
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:03.560 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah, well, the key thing, and I'm glad that you mentioned discovery along with qualification, because we should look at this as
00:41:03.610 --> 00:41:23.359 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: All of these things are discovery. It's like qualification shouldn't just be looked at as the checklist of should they go or shouldn't they go. It's learning about what they're doing. So, from hello, it's discovery. And I think that's the key piece of the mindset. And then, like you said, it doesn't stop at any point. It continues all the way through, even implementation, where you start to realize.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:34.239 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: What's it going to take for them to renew? What's it gonna take to expand? So, it is a continuum, it really is. In fact, you know, in my book, one of the things I talk about is this overarching idea of
00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:40.739 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: solution enablement from Hello through renewals, and then overall account management. So.
00:41:40.740 --> 00:41:52.849 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So glad to hear that you're not… we want to make sure we're not looking at it as a step function process. It's a continuum. Couple minutes left here. What are some of the,
00:41:52.930 --> 00:41:56.339 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: tangible improvements. So, what are the things that…
00:41:56.520 --> 00:42:05.849 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We kind of did the flip side of it at the beginning of what can go wrong, but where did you see that things are improving and some of the metrics around that that
00:42:06.120 --> 00:42:08.490 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Proved out that this is the right thing to do.
00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:16.459 Yumei Peterson: Yeah, I mean, the metrics we talked about, so those things will improve, but tangibly, here's the thing, when we can get a…
00:42:16.710 --> 00:42:26.750 Yumei Peterson: a line team headed in the same direction, with the same motive, kind of like in that movie, the Dory movie, you know, the Just Keep Swimming, what is that?
00:42:26.750 --> 00:42:29.369 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Alright, yeah, oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about, I can't.
00:42:29.370 --> 00:42:36.170 Yumei Peterson: The movie with the fish! Oh my goodness, I can't believe I can't remember this. This is, like, one of my favorite movies. This is gonna, this is gonna kill me later.
00:42:36.170 --> 00:42:37.319 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: can write it and tell us.
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:38.689 Yumei Peterson: Corporate Nemo, Binding Nemo.
00:42:38.690 --> 00:42:39.690 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: There you go, finally…
00:42:39.690 --> 00:43:04.520 Yumei Peterson: And finding Nemo, and they're trying to get out of the net, and then they try to get all the fish to go in the same direction, and that's what ends up breaking through. I think it's the same kind of energy. If we can get the SDRs as a point of the sphere, doing the right things, heading in the right direction, and getting that entry in, and then the sales reps coming in there and really supporting that, and then the pre-sales engineers coming in to really sell that technology, when we can all work together in the
00:43:04.520 --> 00:43:09.170 Yumei Peterson: same direction, with the same kind of intensity, I think that's where magic happens.
00:43:09.170 --> 00:43:32.109 Yumei Peterson: We have a thing called a pod here at Cato, where we do get different members of the team all getting together on a certain cadence and talking about what is our priority, where do we need to spend our time, what's not working, how are you going to help, keeping each other accountable. I think that level of collaboration, it is most needed. But most importantly, when we do these things right, the most tangible thing is that customers are happy.
00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:57.779 Yumei Peterson: firms are used to sloppy engagement, and when they're like, oh, you sent out a note to everybody, so I don't have to say the same thing for the third time in a row. They appreciate little things like that, right? Or when even I've seen SDRs or BDRs will join that first initial call with the sales rep and the engineer and do the recap themselves, and say, hey, we met, and we talked about these things, has anything changed? And they kick it off for the sales team.
00:43:57.780 --> 00:44:00.990 Yumei Peterson: I mean, there's so many best practices where we really should…
00:44:01.020 --> 00:44:04.640 Yumei Peterson: Focus on customer's experience and making that
00:44:04.890 --> 00:44:07.959 Yumei Peterson: as seamless, no pun intended, you know, per…
00:44:08.770 --> 00:44:19.010 Yumei Peterson: It's really about… it's about a seamless experience for the customer, so that we can get from the start to the end as fast as possible, making fans of our solutions and of our work together.
00:44:19.210 --> 00:44:38.760 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Nice, excellent. All right. Well, thank you so much for all this insight, and everybody, go back and rewind this and listen again, because there's so many nuggets in there. Greatly appreciate it. Any final wrap-up remarks, and then how to contact you? Which, by the way, everybody, it will be in the show notes as well. But, again, Yumi, thank you so much. Any final thoughts, and…
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:43.040 Yumei Peterson: Final thought is a memo to the sales reps, to the sales reps.
00:44:43.120 --> 00:45:07.370 Yumei Peterson: Go love on your SDRs and BDRs. They are doing a hard job out there, right? It is hard to pick up that phone and cold call customers, and they're getting it done and getting you leads. It's easier to be nice to your SDRs than to go and hunt for those leads yourself, so give them kudos when it's needed, recognize them, you know, take them under your wings, enable them, give them feedback on how they can be better, because that is going to really motivate them to even work harder for you for both of your
00:45:07.370 --> 00:45:25.229 Yumei Peterson: your successes, so I wanted to leave with that. And how you can contact me is on LinkedIn. You can go find me, there's not very many Yumi Petersons out there. If you find another one, you let me know, if my twinsie's out there, but look forward to meeting all of you on LinkedIn, and friend me, and thank you for the time, I really appreciated the conversation.
00:45:25.590 --> 00:45:36.310 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yes, thank you so much, and it's Y-U-M-E-I-P-E-T-E-R-S-O-N, so just everybody knows. Thank you so much, Yumi, it's been great.
00:45:36.560 --> 00:45:37.340 Yumei Peterson: Take care.
00:47:09.030 --> 00:47:22.110 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: All right. Well, that was amazing, once again. I mean, every guest that we've had on has been so helpful with so many ideas and key takeaways, actionable items that you can use.
00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:31.059 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And even if you're not in specifically an SDR role, maybe you're just thinking about getting into sales, there's tons of insights there, and
00:47:31.060 --> 00:47:44.030 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: for anybody that's downstream in the sales process, I love the final word of advice that Yumi had, is love on your SDRs, because they do help the whole thing happen. And in fact, some of the questions that I'm going to entertain right now
00:47:44.030 --> 00:47:50.350 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: we'll address some of this, but you know what? We can all learn from each other, throughout the whole process, so…
00:47:50.470 --> 00:48:02.259 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: check that out, and apply as you see fit. Okay, so for this segment, the final segment here, we'll do the Dear Artie patterned after Dear Abby.
00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:13.180 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And instead of your life questions, I will address your sales questions. And, there's a few of them here that fall into the category. Let me just pick this one.
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.930 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Our, and this is exactly what we were just talking about.
00:48:15.970 --> 00:48:22.169 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Our SDRs say they're doing proper qualification, so they think they're doing proper qualification.
00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:37.719 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But the sales reps are complaining that they're still getting unqualified leads. What's the disconnect here? And by the way, I hear that absolutely for the sales engineers as well, from the sales reps, so I think there's a little bit of transitivity going on here.
00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:42.220 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: all of us can do a better job of that. So, what is the disconnect?
00:48:42.510 --> 00:48:58.330 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Fundamentally, the issue is that SDRs and sales reps are operating with different definitions of qualified. In my personal experience working with sales teams, SDRs think they've done the job of
00:48:58.490 --> 00:49:04.079 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: qualification if, like Yumi was saying, they confirm budget and timeline and set up a meeting.
00:49:04.200 --> 00:49:13.590 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And as we discussed, that's just not adequate enough. What sales really needs is the understanding of the true business pain, or gain.
00:49:13.740 --> 00:49:14.760 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And…
00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:24.700 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: how the decision is getting made. So, when the lead is passed along, not just what did that lead say, but what is their role, and what are they expecting to do, and…
00:49:24.700 --> 00:49:37.719 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: What are we doing to help them along in their buying process? This is a very important mindset change from just selling something or walking through our sales process, step one, step two, stage 1, stage 2.
00:49:37.730 --> 00:49:56.580 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: but instead being the buying process. So, if you're just checking the boxes and avoiding the harder discovery questions, the meetings that get set by the SDR will not have the momentum required to help drive that buying process. Also, something to think about, SDRs.
00:49:56.640 --> 00:50:15.379 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: even though you may be, you know, pounding and out and getting a lot of meetings, if those meetings are not converting, then at a personal level, you're not setting yourself up for career advancement. And this is one of the big themes of Yumi's career, and why she kept progressing to bigger roles, is because she knew it wasn't just about the tactical
00:50:15.530 --> 00:50:28.680 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: motions, it was about setting everybody up for success. So, please look at that, and if you're in sales management, this is super important because what you will have is healthier, happier SDRs, which
00:50:28.680 --> 00:50:37.619 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the ideal career path, and we alluded to this, is that they become the field sales, and I'm so happy to hear that Yumi said that many of those that we touched back in
00:50:37.620 --> 00:50:49.750 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: 2020, you know, 2019, 2020, 2021, are now field sales reps and doing really, really well because they got started out successfully. So, as a manager, as sales enablement.
00:50:49.750 --> 00:51:01.380 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: This is something to think about, too, for retention. What does it cost you to get a new BDR in and then start another cohort, right? Everybody that comes in into that entry point
00:51:01.410 --> 00:51:05.250 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Can and should be successful in the rest of their career.
00:51:05.330 --> 00:51:22.889 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: For the SDRs who excel are the ones who think strategically about what their sales counterpart wants. This goes back to what I said of, think about what somebody's gonna do with what you give them. And if you just line up a meeting, it can only go so far. So, we want…
00:51:22.890 --> 00:51:31.920 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The sales counterpart, you know, to get what they need to take that buyer all the way through closed one, consumption, you know, renewals, and all that.
00:51:32.140 --> 00:51:34.930 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Increasing annual recurring revenue.
00:51:35.740 --> 00:51:47.370 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: For pre-sales and sales, the significance of this is that when this disconnect exists, unfortunately, then sales reps are going to waste their time requalifying.
00:51:47.370 --> 00:51:56.429 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And then the demos, you know, are just not well prepared, leading to that generic demo that Peter and I talked about last week, which is not where we want to be.
00:51:56.770 --> 00:52:02.020 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So instead of having needle-moving business conversations, it just becomes…
00:52:02.210 --> 00:52:12.269 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: you know, tactical, and things can fall apart. The buyer is also affected when the information is not adequate all the way through.
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:22.790 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We don't want to make assumptions, we want to make sure that we've asked questions, but then pass the answers along so that it doesn't feel like an inquisition every time
00:52:22.790 --> 00:52:41.320 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the buyer is engaged with us, so we want to make sure that that happens, so that whatever happens from hello, and oh, by the way, we didn't get into this at all, but there's automated systems at the very front end of this, oftentimes, that are doing some of that initial discovery, so every bit of information that's gathered from hello
00:52:42.100 --> 00:52:50.739 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Through to the first human contact, and then on through successful client implementation is gonna make an effect on everybody.
00:52:51.230 --> 00:52:56.220 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, those are some really good guidelines and reinforces what we were talking about.
00:52:56.470 --> 00:53:00.679 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Let's see here, I just want to see, I've got a couple of them here.
00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:10.189 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Okay. So, here's the opposite, and this is what, Yumi kind of finished off with the end, is sales reps love on your SDR, so…
00:53:10.190 --> 00:53:27.609 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: My sales reps keep complaining about SDR handoffs, but they don't give the SDRs any feedback on what they actually need. So, how do we fix this communication gap? And Yumi already started that with the idea of just share information, you know? Do those, as Yumi called them, pods.
00:53:27.610 --> 00:53:37.799 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: where you can do the after-action review, take a little bit of time, and even along the way have touchpoints of when the SDR is done and has handed it off.
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:53.540 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: what can we do better the next time? And as sales brings pre-sales into it, what can be done to make that better? And then for client success and customer success, as you get involved in the sales process leading toward
00:53:53.560 --> 00:54:05.770 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the implementation by the customer, what feedback do you have that they can help you with that? So it's this overlap, this healthy overlap of not just the smooth.
00:54:05.770 --> 00:54:20.489 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I don't even like to call it a handoff, it's the smooth transition, but also giving that feedback, and not being afraid of giving the feedback either, so that's really important. The other thing is, is that when it comes to
00:54:20.540 --> 00:54:26.560 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The types of feedback that you're giving to each other. Make sure, sales reps, that you
00:54:26.650 --> 00:54:32.130 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Don't let those organizational silos that I've been talking about work against you.
00:54:32.210 --> 00:54:45.970 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: One of the things that we want to make sure is that the most successful sales teams that I've ever seen have the clear communication in both directions, and are open to it. And that's the thing. Even as an SDR, ask the salesperson.
00:54:45.970 --> 00:54:55.319 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: How did this help you? What can I do differently? Take that one or two extra minutes to do that. And then that way, we can have the continuum all the way through. So sales reps.
00:54:55.450 --> 00:55:05.519 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: please articulate exactly what information you need. Or, ask, because maybe, and I talk with pre-sales about this too, when it comes to sales reps.
00:55:05.790 --> 00:55:24.269 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: everybody that was upstream, they may already have the information, but maybe they aren't sharing it because you didn't ask. If they don't have the information, maybe they don't think you really need it, unless you ask for it. So, have a commitment together that it's a transparent and open.
00:55:24.380 --> 00:55:33.540 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: process, that you're all working together to help the client, and then you can, work together better. So, to be successful.
00:55:33.750 --> 00:55:53.160 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the SDRs need to be coachable, open-minded, and willing to dig deeper. And then what, again, I think you should define internally what qualified means. In the book, you know, that I have, Making Seamless Sales, I talk a lot about this, from hello all the way through client success and renewal.
00:55:53.160 --> 00:56:06.560 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And a big part of that is that there's not any given point that's, like, a stopping point. Even qualification continues, because if something changes, we need to know the change, and then kind of requalify at that point in time.
00:56:06.560 --> 00:56:23.039 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And that could come a little ways down. Let's say a stakeholder drops out. Let's say that you realize that this deal is an expansion deal, and things like that. So, while some people may say that they're doing Medic, MedPick, or some variation of it, what do we really mean by that?
00:56:23.390 --> 00:56:35.570 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Is it just a checkbox, or is there good information that's being gathered that helps drive the sales forward? I find that oftentimes it's surface level. It's done reluctantly.
00:56:35.570 --> 00:56:45.119 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And it doesn't add value. So all client-facing roles need to understand that we're working toward the same goal, customer success. Start with the end in mind.
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:59.729 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And that renewals and consumption and annual recurring revenue is what's going to help all of us, including the company, but most importantly, the customer. So why is this important? Without this alignment, the entire sales process becomes inefficient.
00:56:59.730 --> 00:57:07.070 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And that forces sales and pre-sales to conduct discovery that should have happened earlier. That's gonna extend the sales cycle.
00:57:07.070 --> 00:57:20.580 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And therefore, use of a proper sales methodology, like the sales opportunity snapshot that I describe in the book. And you can use the concepts, by the way, from it, you don't have to do the full-blown thing, but if you like the concepts in the book and how it helps you with this.
00:57:20.810 --> 00:57:40.099 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: let me know, and we can work together on that, because it is robust, and it's built into the CRM system, too. And that helps with the forecasting that Yumi talked about that's one of the main measurements of success. So, as we're wrapping up here, thanks again for those questions. Please continue to add the questions. I want to thank
00:57:40.470 --> 00:57:50.829 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yumi Peterson for being here today and sharing all of her ideas about SDRs that not only will benefit from them, but all client-facing roles, and most importantly, the customer.
00:57:50.830 --> 00:58:02.619 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Please, before you go, check out TeamSalesDevelopment.com website, including the events and articles page for today's show, as well as previous shows you can listen to and upcoming events.
00:58:02.620 --> 00:58:10.420 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And these are now out on all the podcast streams that you use. Contact me to discuss your plans for sales kickoff.
00:58:10.420 --> 00:58:25.240 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: or anything that you need to improve sales results, I offer keynotes, seminars, workshops, CRM integrated tools that helps sales sell. And that's the key, and helps buyers buy, and avoids the rush of the demo. So, please like, sh…
00:58:25.240 --> 00:58:43.089 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: share and subscribe, comment on the show, and join me next week at 7pm when we welcome Nikhil Sharma, who is going to be talking about value discovery and the value discovery map, which helps sales teams focus on the buyer's what, why, and how.
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:52.769 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And allows us to do a better job of providing them solutions. Until next time, here's to making seamless sales. Thanks, everybody. Take care.
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