EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes psychopharmacologist and author, Anton Gomez-Escolar MSc, MPH, MIR.
Anton is a psychopharmacologist who works on psychedelic research, drug education, and harm reduction. He is the founder of the social media channel @Drogopedia, author of several peer-reviewed scientific articles on psychedelics and three published books on the topic, including The Psychedelic Reawakening.
He has worked at public health and drug organizations like the European Union Drugs Agency (EUDA), Kosmicare and Energy Control, and has presented on psychedelics at several international scientific conferences and policy forums, including the European Parliament and the United Nations, being also invited to several important European meetings on psychedelics held at institutions like the European Medicines Agency, the Spanish Government or the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology.
He is a member of the UNAD Global Drug Policy Commission, and cofounder and board member of the Spanish Society of Psychedelic Medicine (SEMPsi), the inawe Foundation for psychedelic research and education, and the Psychedelic Society of Madrid.
We will be exploring the benefits, risks, and growing acceptance of modern psychedelic therapy.
Tune in and share all of your questions and comments about psychedelic medicines on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
Sam Liebowitz opens the latest Conscious Consultant Hour by reflecting on his blog post, A Sacred Space Is More Than a Location, reminding us that sacredness is not about a physical site but the presence, awareness, and trust we bring into a moment. He shares how true sacred space can arise between people, in a group, or even within a fleeting instant, whenever open hearts create safety for deep inner work and transformation. This theme sets the stage for his conversation with guest Anton Gomez Escolar, a psychopharmacologist exploring how psychedelics can awaken healing and new perspectives on consciousness.
Anton Gomez Escolar explains that psychedelics alter consciousness by acting like “keys” that unlock specific receptors in the brain, dramatically shifting connectivity and brain activity. These changes can temporarily create new states of perception, such as synesthesia, and may also enhance neuroplasticity, helping neurons grow new connections that support healing and transformation. He highlights the promising potential of psychedelic-assisted therapy for treatment-resistant depression, PTSD, anxiety, and even addiction, offering new hope where conventional treatments have often failed.
Anton Gomez Escolar explains that the default mode network (DMN) is the brain system linked to self-reflection, ego, and the models we hold about how the world works—but in depression, anxiety, and trauma, it often becomes overactive, trapping people in cycles of rumination and fear. Psychedelics quiet this network, dissolving rigid patterns of thought and allowing new connections, perspectives, and healing to emerge, which is why many describe experiences of ego dissolution or profound presence. He emphasizes that this recalibration not only brings peace and openness during the journey but also supports lasting change, while stressing the importance of safe, guided, and harm-reduction-based approaches to ensure these powerful tools are used for true healing.
Anton Gomez Escolar explains that he titled his book The Psychedelic Reawakening to highlight that humanity has turned to psychedelics multiple times throughout history, and he hopes this current resurgence becomes a lasting awakening for healing and growth. He wrote the book to be accessible to anyone—whether newcomers, curious seekers, or professionals—balancing plain explanations with deeper technical insights so all readers can benefit. In closing, he draws parallels between meditation and psychedelics, noting how both quiet the default mode network and bring presence, though psychedelics can provide an immediate breakthrough for those struggling with depression or trauma, potentially opening the path to meditation and long-term integration.
00:00:44.130 --> 00:00:53.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Welcome to another edition of the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity.
00:00:53.400 --> 00:01:08.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, if those of you who regularly tune in, if you feel like my voice feels a little different, I do have a bit of a chest cold, my energy is a little low today, but I'm still committed to bringing our show to you live every week.
00:01:09.130 --> 00:01:28.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did you catch last week's show with Kara Jean, my guest? It was a wonderful conversation. She's a great coach, and I hope you check it out. And I have a wonderful guest this week, but before we get to my guest, of course, I have my blog post.
00:01:28.790 --> 00:01:40.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from a couple of years ago. And, today's blog post, again, just taking these in order, is entitled, A Sacred Space Is More Than a Location.
00:01:41.890 --> 00:01:44.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There are special places on this earth.
00:01:45.550 --> 00:01:48.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Places where our souls soar.
00:01:49.070 --> 00:01:51.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Where we feel a tingle in our spine.
00:01:52.070 --> 00:01:55.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And where it feels that anything is possible.
00:01:56.530 --> 00:02:00.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We call these places sacred spaces.
00:02:01.470 --> 00:02:04.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But what makes a place sacred?
00:02:04.900 --> 00:02:06.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is it the location?
00:02:07.340 --> 00:02:08.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or the design?
00:02:09.720 --> 00:02:14.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can a place be sacred in an ordinary or common way?
00:02:15.210 --> 00:02:21.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why is it that the place we chose so long ago is now considered sacred?
00:02:22.390 --> 00:02:29.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There are so many things we can point to and say, that is what makes this place sacred.
00:02:29.610 --> 00:02:35.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet a space may feel sacred and not be any of those things.
00:02:36.510 --> 00:02:44.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why is that Because it is about the feeling we get when we enter the space.
00:02:44.670 --> 00:02:48.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That special feeling of safety and peace.
00:02:49.780 --> 00:02:54.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Our subtle senses tell us This is a safe place.
00:02:55.100 --> 00:02:56.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is sacred.
00:02:57.540 --> 00:03:08.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For it is only in a sacred space that we can do our deep inner work and feel free enough to confront our darkest fears.
00:03:10.010 --> 00:03:17.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The fascinating thing is that a sacred space does not have to be a physical location.
00:03:17.880 --> 00:03:25.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It can be the space that forms between people who are open-hearted and compassionate.
00:03:26.390 --> 00:03:29.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The space we think of as sacred.
00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:38.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is there… is the feeling that is generated by the trust that forms between people.
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:43.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is why doing group work can be so powerful.
00:03:43.600 --> 00:03:55.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For when there is a deep trust between everyone in the group, the sacredness is enhanced, and we feel safe enough to dive in deep.
00:03:56.870 --> 00:04:02.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That special place may be only a moment in time.
00:04:03.250 --> 00:04:07.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Once the group disperses, the space dissolves.
00:04:07.290 --> 00:04:13.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And what was just a sacred space is now a regular space for anyone to use.
00:04:14.200 --> 00:04:21.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can make sacred spaces in our lives that are both physical and non-physical.
00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:27.989 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As the sense of what is sacred to us is internal and intuitive.
00:04:29.500 --> 00:04:35.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So we can create an altar in our home, And it is sacred.
00:04:35.610 --> 00:04:40.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Or we can gather a group of friend… trusted friends to do healing work together.
00:04:41.290 --> 00:04:44.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that is sacred, too.
00:04:45.730 --> 00:04:49.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, I wrote this blog post a couple of years ago.
00:04:51.700 --> 00:04:55.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I forget who I was having the conversation with.
00:04:58.310 --> 00:05:00.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But they pointed out that
00:05:01.830 --> 00:05:07.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I don't know, we got on the topic of sacred spaces, and they said that…
00:05:08.170 --> 00:05:10.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We make a place sacred.
00:05:10.850 --> 00:05:15.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's not about… the physical location.
00:05:16.250 --> 00:05:19.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is about how we enter into the space.
00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:26.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so it just got me thinking on this whole track about how
00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:38.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A sacred space does not have to be a church, or a temple, or a synagogue, or a mosque. It doesn't have to be an ancient ruin site.
00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It doesn't have to be where ley lines criss-cross each other.
00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:49.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A sacred space is the… Space that comes together.
00:05:50.200 --> 00:05:55.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we come… it's a space that's created when we come together.
00:05:56.680 --> 00:05:58.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For a sacred purpose.
00:06:00.890 --> 00:06:05.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And actually, I was at an event recently.
00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:20.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And the officiant of the event said something very profound, and it was just a little piece, and then he kept going about other things, but I heard it, and I caught it, and it's really stuck in my mind.
00:06:23.130 --> 00:06:30.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He said, we make A moment or a place sacred.
00:06:31.130 --> 00:06:35.849 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: By our awareness of the sacredness of the moment.
00:06:38.110 --> 00:06:39.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I thought,
00:06:42.230 --> 00:06:44.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The sacredness is always there.
00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:51.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's our presence to the sacredness.
00:06:51.840 --> 00:06:54.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That creates the sacred space.
00:06:55.670 --> 00:07:00.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it's interesting, because this just… I just, heard him say that,
00:07:00.410 --> 00:07:06.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Couple of weeks ago, and now that this is my blog post this week, so timing is quite interesting.
00:07:07.170 --> 00:07:08.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Anyway, so…
00:07:08.850 --> 00:07:19.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, sacred space is something we talk a lot about in healing work, and I think my guest will probably have something to say about this.
00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:22.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But, something to think about.
00:07:22.810 --> 00:07:25.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What makes a place sacred for you?
00:07:26.840 --> 00:07:31.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How are you present to the sacredness of a moment in time?
00:07:32.580 --> 00:07:37.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, how do we… Create a sense of the sacred.
00:07:38.830 --> 00:07:40.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we're with someone.
00:07:40.550 --> 00:07:42.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we're engaged in something.
00:07:42.930 --> 00:07:46.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Whether it's a physical space or just a moment in time.
00:07:48.240 --> 00:08:01.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, that's my blog post. It's entitled, A Sacred Space is More Than a Location. And of course, you can always find my blog at my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com.
00:08:01.750 --> 00:08:07.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And, of course, on the station's website at talkradio.nyc slash blog.
00:08:07.780 --> 00:08:16.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, it is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show psychopharmacologist and author Anton Gomez Escalar.
00:08:17.200 --> 00:08:24.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Anton is a psychopharmacologist who works on psychedelic research, drug education, and harm reduction.
00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:39.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He is the founder of the social media channel Drogopedia, author of several peer-reviewed scientific articles on psychedelics, and has 3 published books on the topic, including his latest book.
00:08:39.179 --> 00:08:41.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A psychedelic reawakening.
00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:45.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hope you can see that.
00:08:45.620 --> 00:08:54.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He has worked at public health and drug organizations like the European Union Drugs Agency, Cosmicare and Energy Control.
00:08:54.380 --> 00:09:06.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and has presented on psychedelics at several international scientific conferences and policy forums, including the European Parliament and the United Nations.
00:09:06.150 --> 00:09:20.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Being also invited to several important European meetings on psychedelics held at institutions like the European Medicine Agency and the Spanish government, and the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology.
00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Anton.
00:09:25.160 --> 00:09:28.160 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Thank you very much. It's a big pleasure to be here today.
00:09:28.310 --> 00:09:46.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it's wonderful to have you coming all the way from Spain. I believe… I've had guests from Europe on my show in the past, but it's been a while. It's been a number of months since I've had someone from across the pond, as they say, so I'm glad you're here with us today.
00:09:46.640 --> 00:09:54.629 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious, like, as a psychopharmacologist, I mean, there are many different directions that
00:09:54.630 --> 00:10:10.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: endeavor can take someone. What got you so interested in psychedelics, and what motivated you to really become an expert on the topic to the point where, you know, you're writing papers and books about it?
00:10:11.150 --> 00:10:18.919 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Well, that's a great question, because originally I was not someone that was very inclined or very interested.
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:32.120 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): in drugs, in particular, but as I became older, as I was in my teenage years, I started to become more and more interested about these substances that were able
00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:54.599 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): change our mind, to change the way we think, to change the way we behave, and to me, it was very interesting to have, like, molecules, or crystals, or different substances that were able to change human mind and to change human behavior. So, I got more and more interested in this topic.
00:10:54.600 --> 00:11:01.840 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Until I started suffering from a quite major depression, unfortunately.
00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:12.370 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And I had the opportunity to try… to try most… most of the legal treatment for… for depressions, including, like,
00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:20.090 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): serotonin reuptake inhibitors, also anxiolytics.
00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:34.669 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): benziazepines on all these substances, but I didn't, felt better after using them, so I was still suffering a lot at that time. I'm talking about maybe 15 years ago, 20 years ago.
00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:44.670 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So, a good friend of mine suggested me to try a new approach, approach that has been used in the past in the United States and other
00:11:44.670 --> 00:11:55.040 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): places of the world, but that, unfortunately, nowadays was illegal. But he… he knew someone who was working in a… in a… in a…
00:11:55.040 --> 00:12:09.070 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): In a trial, in a trial, in order to investigate whether or not these substances had the efficacy and safety for treating depression, anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder, addiction.
00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:30.940 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So I was very happy, and I enrolled in this study, and I was completely mean-blown when, with just one session of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, I completely changed my way of thinking, my way of feeling about the world, and most importantly, the way I was feeling about myself.
00:12:31.030 --> 00:12:37.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, after only one psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy session.
00:12:37.030 --> 00:12:54.779 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I completely changed the way I was feeling, and it was a turning point, because I never felt sad or empty again after that day. So, I was so impressed with the efficacy and the potency of these substances, of these experiences.
00:12:54.780 --> 00:12:59.530 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): that I decided that I wanted to, fight in order for
00:12:59.530 --> 00:13:14.750 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Other people that were probably in situations that were much more terrible than mine, that people, maybe suicidal people, people that were, like, suffering a lot, to have access to these treatments someday.
00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:28.980 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Always through the science, always through the legal pathways, but to have this possibility of fighting for a better and more secure and more efficacious
00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:49.029 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): treatment for mental health for people suffering from these conditions. That was the moment, I would say, I changed completely my mission in life, because prior to that, I was kind of lost. I didn't know what to do with my life. I work in many different areas.
00:13:49.310 --> 00:13:57.749 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I was a happy guy, anyway, but still feeling that there was something lacking inside me, like a mission, like a direction.
00:13:57.750 --> 00:14:10.409 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And after this experience, where I felt things different, where I saw many things that I wasn't seeing in my daily life, I completely decided that I wanted to fight for
00:14:10.410 --> 00:14:24.070 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): for this thing to become a reality. I wanted this psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy to become a reality someday, and I'm happy to say that nowadays, I'm feeling that we are getting closer and closer to that mission.
00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:30.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious, just, what substance did they use on the trial, and what dosage?
00:14:30.930 --> 00:14:45.199 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Well, it was a trial using two different substances in different moments, so it was not two at the same time. So, the first, my first approach was, using MDMA. MDMA to, like.
00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:55.650 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): In my opinion, it was the perfect, the perfect choice, because as someone who has never had any mind-altering
00:14:55.650 --> 00:15:11.590 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): substance, aside from alcohol and maybe cannabis, I needed to have, like, a soft introduction to the topic, and MDMA provided that. And also, MDMA helped me a lot to reconnect with myself, to reconnect with others.
00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:29.870 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): to reconnect with my family and with people that I… I was feeling they were far away from me, but in reality, I was just… it was me that I was keeping them, like, aside, no? So that was… that realization was amazing. I was with… only with MDMA. But after that, I had a session with,
00:15:29.880 --> 00:15:41.429 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): with a high dose of psilocybin… psilocybin mushrooms. That one was… that one was completely mind-blowing, was extremely powerful experience, very deep, very strong.
00:15:41.530 --> 00:15:50.359 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And that one, to me, was, like, the one that really made the changes in the inside of my core, of myself.
00:15:50.640 --> 00:16:11.480 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): of the way I think, of the way I see the world, no? But both experiences, in my opinion, were very useful, and I can't credit any of those for having all the value, but I guess both in combinations were really, really good for me, and that's why I wanted all the people to be able to have
00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:26.370 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): access to these therapies, because probably a lot of people can find amazing results with these therapies as well. And don't forget that we are nowadays in a mental health crisis all around the world.
00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:36.309 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So it's nothing… we can't compare this with what's happening in the 50s, or 60s, or 70s, where, of course, there were mental health problems, but
00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:55.960 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): It was not the first main problem when it comes to harm to society, but nowadays, mental health issues are the number one reason for people having incapacities, or difficulties working or, having trouble in fulfilling
00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:56.980 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): a good life.
00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:10.650 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I think we are in a different context, and now we really need to go after these new treatments in order to find alternatives that might be much more… if you can choose that, the ones that we already have that, unfortunately.
00:17:10.650 --> 00:17:17.540 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Are not very efficacious many times, and we end up with a lot of chronic, chronic patients.
00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:27.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, wonderful, wonderful. I've got a lot of questions for you, because you're… I've had many guests come on, talk about psychedelics, but you're the first one
00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:28.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that,
00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:53.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can talk about it from a very scientific and technical point of view, so I want to ask you some technical questions, but I want to try and keep the answers not too technical for our audience, okay? So we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, I'm gonna… I've got millions of questions. We probably don't have enough time in the show to get to all of them. So, everybody, please stay tuned. You're listening to the Conscious Consultant Hour.
00:17:53.069 --> 00:18:03.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Anton Gomez Escalar, author of the book, The Psychedelic Reaawakening, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:20:19.110 --> 00:20:35.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. We're speaking this hour with Anton Gomez Escala from Spain, about psychedelics, and his book, The Psychedelic Reaawakening.
00:20:35.090 --> 00:20:44.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Anton, I admit I haven't gotten all the way through the book. I did just start off in the beginning, but even just looking through
00:20:44.080 --> 00:20:48.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the table of contents. One of the things I really appreciate about your book
00:20:48.950 --> 00:20:56.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is, you're in the beginning talking about the neuroscience and the neurophysiology.
00:20:56.180 --> 00:20:58.009 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): behind it, and…
00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:07.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know, my audience are not medical professionals, they're regular people, but I'm wondering if you could
00:21:07.870 --> 00:21:15.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just in a very broad way, explain to our audience what causes…
00:21:15.340 --> 00:21:28.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a substance, like a psychedelic, whether it's MDMA, psilocybin, DMT, or ayahuasca, what causes that to alter our state of consciousness?
00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:41.029 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Well, at a micro level, so if we are talking about the level of the molecules and very small things, what happens when someone ingests a psychedelic substance.
00:21:41.030 --> 00:21:50.419 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Is that this substance gets into the brain, and into the brain it attaches to a specific kind of what is called
00:21:50.420 --> 00:22:06.149 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): neuroreceptor. A neuroreceptor is just, like, the lock that you find in the door, that's a neuroreceptor, and the receptor, that is this chemical… and the neurotransmitter, that is this chemical substance that
00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:14.740 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): that is released in the brain at… with different conditions. It is, like, the key. So, the key gets into the lock.
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:35.450 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): that makes the effect that the person is expecting to have when ingesting a drug. This is a very simple way of explaining how this works. What is important is that these changes that are at micro level, very small level, we can see them with microscope.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:48.750 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): When we go one step back, and we see the entire rain, we can see that all these small keys getting into different logs and opening some of those.
00:22:48.760 --> 00:22:57.070 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Makes the entire brain connectivity, so the way the neurons in the brain are interconnecting among each other, change.
00:22:57.070 --> 00:22:58.930 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): They change dramatically.
00:22:58.930 --> 00:23:19.240 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): If we compare it with how they used to connect when someone is in an ordinary state of consciousness, when we are in our daily lives. So there is a big change in the way the brain connects. There is a big change in which areas of the brain are more or less activated.
00:23:19.350 --> 00:23:27.460 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And as a result of all this, there is a change in the person, in the cognition, so in the way they think.
00:23:27.460 --> 00:23:46.490 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): in the way they feel, and in the way they behave. So, all these areas, all these asphras, are all changed because you are touching on the biological substrate, let's say, of that cognition. So, by changing the way the neurons
00:23:46.490 --> 00:23:59.409 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): fire, by modulating those connectivities, by using these substances that act as keys, you are making the entire brain change the way
00:23:59.410 --> 00:24:09.460 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): it should be working. And you enter into a new state, a state where equilibriums, balances of different areas are different.
00:24:09.460 --> 00:24:22.039 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): where you have, for example, synesthesia, you have this mixing or melting of different senses, like, I'm tasting color, or I'm smelling…
00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:34.110 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I'm smelling, I don't know, a colder as well. So, all these things happen because the brain is suffering a big change in connectivity, in electrical signaling.
00:24:34.110 --> 00:24:46.830 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): For a few hours, mostly, for during the time of the psychedelic effect. What also happens is that at a morphological level, so at the level of the…
00:24:46.830 --> 00:25:02.830 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): neurons, we can see that also there are changes happening there because of the psychedelic effect. One of the most important changes that has been more and more attractive in the last years
00:25:02.830 --> 00:25:08.840 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): is the possibility of increasing neuroplasticity, so increasing the capability
00:25:08.840 --> 00:25:13.880 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): of the neuronal networks, of reconnecting, of growing.
00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:31.029 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): or looking for new connection, what is called synaptogenesis. So this makes, basically, the brain not only work in a different way for a few hours, but also makes neurons, axons, dendrites.
00:25:31.090 --> 00:25:38.179 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): to start looking for new neurons, no? Looking for connection, looking for synapses.
00:25:38.250 --> 00:25:55.600 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And that is a physical, or a physiological process. It's not only about electricity, and not only about receptors, and all these neuroscientific speech, it's also happening at the level
00:25:55.600 --> 00:26:07.339 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): That we can measure, we can see that there is this connectivity, these neurons are growing neurites, these small cords that are
00:26:07.340 --> 00:26:09.590 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Looking to connect with a different.
00:26:09.600 --> 00:26:23.499 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): neuron known. And this is really, really promising, because we have a lot of mental illness problems related with conditions, like, for example, the inability of the brain to
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:42.990 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): adapt to harms or changes. For example, in the case of Alzheimer's disease, it would be extremely useful if we can use a substance that promotes neuroplasticity and allows the brain to recover from the harm that has been already done, or at least to onset
00:26:42.990 --> 00:26:51.770 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): or to retard the beginning of the symptoms of the illness, no? But also, we are having a lot of potential.
00:26:51.770 --> 00:27:07.150 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): for these substances to be used in a very controlled setting, like, for example, psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy settings, for treatment especially of depression, especially in people that didn't find
00:27:07.250 --> 00:27:14.170 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): benefit from the conventional treatments. As myself, I… that was my case in particular. I wasn't having…
00:27:14.170 --> 00:27:28.580 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): good results with, conventional, SSRIs and, and all these, anti, antidepress… depressives, and I had the, the wonderful experience, life-changing, with, with,
00:27:28.600 --> 00:27:36.699 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): with, psychedelics. But also, things like, Like, anxiety, things like,
00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:38.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: PTS, PTSD… Yeah.
00:27:38.890 --> 00:27:50.669 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): PTSD, very important, especially with MDMA, that one is working really good in terms of the results and the safety profile. And also, and this is especially interesting for me.
00:27:51.350 --> 00:27:58.509 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): to fight against addictions. So, we can frame it as worst against worst.
00:27:58.690 --> 00:28:07.140 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Drugs against drugs, sorry. Having this possibility of having drugs that can fix people that is addicted to other drugs, so…
00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:12.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So this… these are the main, potential areas that we are now exploring, and.
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:28.599 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And I have to say, this is very promising, and it's very exciting at the same time. It's been many, many decades without any big development in the field of mental health. We are still working with the same tools that we knew 50 years ago.
00:28:28.600 --> 00:28:33.439 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): But now, at least, at last, it looks like we're gonna have
00:28:33.570 --> 00:28:41.090 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Access to tools that might help us to curb down that epidemic in mental health.
00:28:41.090 --> 00:28:41.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:28:42.730 --> 00:28:54.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, absolutely. I know from my wife, who's a psychotherapist, they call it, treatment-resistant depression, right? They try all the… this is what happened to you. They try all these different treatments.
00:28:54.890 --> 00:29:12.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And nothing seems to be able to make a lasting change. And they found that different psychedelics have been very effective in treating treatment-resistant depression, as well as, you know, many other conditions, as we said.
00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:17.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We just, like, got a minute before break.
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:28.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm just going to mention this, and then when we come back from break, we'll talk about it. And that is the idea of the default mode network. That this is something that is really…
00:29:28.550 --> 00:29:38.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: come to be understood in the last 20 years or so, and that's something that psychedelics really affects and changes.
00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:49.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So when we come back from break, let's talk about that. What is the default mode network, and how do psychedelics change it, and why, okay?
00:29:51.340 --> 00:30:06.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So, everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity, and we'll be right back with our guest, Anton Gomez-Escalar, author of the book, The Psychedelic Reawakening, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:32:14.430 --> 00:32:21.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the Conscious Consultant Hour, Awakening Humanity. So Anton, one of the…
00:32:21.820 --> 00:32:37.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: recent developments in the field of psychology that they've come to understand that there's this thing called the default mode network that controls a lot of our behaviors. What is it, and how come psychedelics help to change that?
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:56.669 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Well, the default mode network is a functional network, so it's a network we have in our brains that we know because we can see how firing gets together, like, we can see that they fire together in these different areas, in particular.
00:32:56.670 --> 00:33:00.889 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And it's related to many processes in human brain.
00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:21.570 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): For example, we see that the default mode network is activated when we are engaging in nothing, so we are not doing nothing, we are just daydreaming, thinking about our things, or whatever. So, in that situation, the default mode network is activated.
00:33:21.570 --> 00:33:31.780 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): There's also, activation… When we're referring to ourselves, so we're thinking about us, myself, my story.
00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:50.440 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And all this made people think that the default mode network is probably connected with the ego, the concept of the ego that might be located in this default mode network. And also, it guards, or it's in charge of building
00:33:50.440 --> 00:34:03.020 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): the models about how the world works. So we… we use the default mode network as a place to keep our egos, and also as a place to,
00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:10.820 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Keep our beliefs about how the world… how the world works, what happens in the world, everything.
00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:16.449 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Yeah, it's very interesting, because when we see, for example, people suffering from depression.
00:34:16.690 --> 00:34:24.230 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): People that are suffering from depression, from addictions, anxiety, they train to be people that have
00:34:24.449 --> 00:34:32.390 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): the default mode network overactive, so it's overactive. It's very, very awakened, and it's working a lot.
00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:47.769 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Meaning that this default mode network is probably preventing them to see the world as it is, and is imposing a worldview that is coming from within. Probably very contaminated or polluted.
00:34:47.770 --> 00:34:53.809 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): by the self-assumptions or beliefs of the person itself. So…
00:34:54.020 --> 00:35:06.810 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): If someone has a very activated default mode network and is suffering from depression, what we have seen is that by deactivating that default mode network, by
00:35:06.950 --> 00:35:22.369 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): doing different activities that force that default mode network to switch off. The person is more engaged in the moment, in the here and now, is entrance to be happier, entrance to be much better than when he's only daydreaming and thinking about
00:35:22.370 --> 00:35:37.950 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): stuff that is inside your brain, no? And this is very interesting because we can draw this parallel to a lot of mental health conditions, because in many of those conditions, we find this overactivity at the default mode network.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:54.369 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And the person is all day ruminating. Ruminating, thinking about the same negative thoughts once and once and again and again. So I would say that the default mode network is the network that is in charge of things that are not happening here and now.
00:35:54.660 --> 00:36:10.020 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): When we are here and now, when we are connected with the present moment, when we are connected with our surroundings, with ourselves in this present moment, then the default mode network is not working as much as in other moments of the day.
00:36:10.430 --> 00:36:17.839 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So, in that regard, psychedelics, what they do, what they train to do, most of them, is to,
00:36:17.990 --> 00:36:20.609 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Diminish, a lot, the activity.
00:36:20.650 --> 00:36:38.990 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): in the default mode network. And by diminishing this activity in the default mode network, you can see these phenomenological experiences, like, for example, the ego death that a lot of people describe when they take psychedelics, or, for example.
00:36:39.980 --> 00:36:40.930 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): M…
00:36:41.230 --> 00:36:50.949 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): The dissolution of the identity of the person, the person is no longer knows who he is, or where he is, all that kind of information.
00:36:52.420 --> 00:37:17.229 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): this is one of the most interesting mechanisms of action of the psychedelics, because when you switch off the default mode network, that is also a network that is kind of keeping order in the brain, so it's like deciding what happens in this area and this other area. It's like the big policeman, or the big brother inside the brain.
00:37:17.410 --> 00:37:25.499 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): When the default mode network relaxes, then you see a surge in communications in the brain.
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:40.400 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): among different areas that normally don't communicate. So you get to see, like, a chaotic pattern of activation and communication that, in particular, is very useful, because if someone is in a pathological situation.
00:37:40.570 --> 00:37:54.430 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And the default mode network is overactive, and it's keeping things the way they are, and it's, like, hanging very strong to the situation in order not to change anything. If you are able to get rid of that,
00:37:55.050 --> 00:38:01.749 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Of that network, then the brain is way, way,
00:38:02.060 --> 00:38:17.099 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): It has more freedom in order to start new patterns of communication, to draw new conclusions that were impossible in other moments, to see things different.
00:38:17.140 --> 00:38:40.719 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): to think outside of the box, as you guys would normally say in America. So, all these processes are usually very controlled by the default mode network, and once you get rid of that, or you just diminish the activity, or discordinate the network, then you start having other very positive things happening that were not happening
00:38:40.720 --> 00:38:43.109 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Because of this default mode network, so…
00:38:43.110 --> 00:38:56.640 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I would say that the development network is very important for us as a species, it's very important for survival, it's very important for self-reflection, for many things. But when someone is in a…
00:38:57.380 --> 00:39:07.659 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): situation where they need to improve their mental health. They need to make big changes in their life. They need to have this kind of treatment.
00:39:08.740 --> 00:39:22.859 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): the default mode network could be one of the main problems to address at the beginning, and this is why psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy is such an efficacious and powerful tool to use, because.
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:27.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It attacks, among other areas, it attacks especially.
00:39:27.210 --> 00:39:45.349 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): the default mode network, and recalibrates it, recalibrates it in a way that the person, when it comes back from the trip, they are still, of course, the same person that were taking the trip, so nothing dramatical has changed inside their brain, but it's true that they are
00:39:45.350 --> 00:39:57.770 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): More relaxed, more open, more willing to see the world in a different thing, with different priorities in their lives, and all this is because of this softening of the activity, or the…
00:39:58.180 --> 00:39:59.839 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Of the default one network.
00:40:00.180 --> 00:40:06.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, it sounds like if someone has a condition, like, They're…
00:40:06.380 --> 00:40:12.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: super anxious, or they have something like OCD.
00:40:12.550 --> 00:40:16.080 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): That… that that's the default mode network.
00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:21.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Telling them, like, watch out for this, this is a problem, that's gonna be a problem, that's gonna be a problem, that's gonna be a problem.
00:40:21.430 --> 00:40:26.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Constantly taking them out of presence and taking them into their worst fears.
00:40:26.780 --> 00:40:40.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And when they ingest the psychedelics, that suddenly that default mode network is now lessened, so now they're not thinking about all the different things that are… could go wrong, and they're more able to just
00:40:40.830 --> 00:40:47.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Be here now, as the expression goes, and suddenly there's more peace, more calm.
00:40:47.560 --> 00:40:57.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that… that peace and calm, though it might not be as intense during the ex… afterwards than it was during the experience, that even afterwards.
00:40:57.210 --> 00:41:02.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: there's more peace in Calm than they had had before the experience.
00:41:02.520 --> 00:41:09.209 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Yeah, sure, and also keep in mind that I haven't talked about… a lot about this, but
00:41:09.210 --> 00:41:22.789 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): But when we're dealing with the models that we build about the world that surrounds us, there is a process that starts when we are babies, very young babies, and it develops throughout our life.
00:41:22.790 --> 00:41:27.170 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): These models are like lenses. When we…
00:41:27.340 --> 00:41:40.380 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): for example, discovered that if I throw a glass, it falls to the floor and it breaks, then this is a kind of thing that is gonna be always there telling me or predicting
00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:50.979 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): that this thing is going to happen. And it usually is going to happen, so this model is going to become very strong, because it's gonna have a lot of confirmation over time. People falling in glasses are gonna be… always be breaking.
00:41:51.100 --> 00:41:52.500 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): But,
00:41:53.360 --> 00:42:11.420 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): What happens when we need to change one of these models that is very well established? It can be very difficult, especially in old people, it can be almost impossible. Imagine that your model was built during your teenage years.
00:42:11.560 --> 00:42:16.999 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): When, some, unfortunate event ends up in,
00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:31.739 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Person raping you, for example. And then this is so stressful that it sets a model in your brain that means that if you are alone in a dark place, that is probably gonna end up in a rape.
00:42:31.810 --> 00:42:46.899 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So this is a model of how, for example, a trauma is built, and it's very difficult to change these models. And that's where psychedelics are very useful, because they not only break down this,
00:42:47.130 --> 00:43:00.170 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): default mode network that is in charge of keeping those models of the world, but it also allows for a higher amount of neuro… of, neuroplasticity.
00:43:00.170 --> 00:43:02.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, the interconnections, right?
00:43:02.070 --> 00:43:13.959 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So you are… you are, fixing, in the… in the… at the same time, the… the fear, or the situation, and also you are making the brain
00:43:14.080 --> 00:43:30.200 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): easier to remember that this is not dangerous. This was just a bad experience, but now the danger is over. There's no more worrying about this, I don't know, dark room, or whatever may
00:43:30.530 --> 00:43:43.469 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): the person feel anxious. So, there are so many opportunities that we can use, working with the brain, working with the development network, working in general with psychedelics, because they are super interesting substances.
00:43:43.470 --> 00:44:00.910 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): They have many, many things for us to discover yet, and this is still the beginning of a big revolution in mental health. And I really hope that we're gonna see this not only in the mental health area.
00:44:00.910 --> 00:44:04.309 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Which is very important, of course, but I think that this is gonna
00:44:04.550 --> 00:44:21.320 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): get into neurology, for example, to treat people with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or stroke, or concussions, all this kind of thing, where you need, like, the neurons to get repaired, to reconnect.
00:44:22.250 --> 00:44:24.989 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): It's probably also gonna be working as,
00:44:25.020 --> 00:44:35.169 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): neuro-antinflammatory in other conditions. So I'm really, happy, and… and I really hope that this is gonna.
00:44:35.170 --> 00:44:47.090 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): keep going and bringing us all these… all these great discoveries. In the book, I try to mention a little bit of everything, so the way I wrote it is in order to
00:44:47.090 --> 00:44:48.200 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): for anyone
00:44:48.200 --> 00:45:02.090 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): really need, starting with level zero, or starting with any level, to be able to understand all the different areas that are important to understand when it comes to psychedelics. Not just talking about psychedelics, but also talking about
00:45:02.100 --> 00:45:13.829 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Pharmacology in general, in very plain terms, what is psychopharmacology, which, which kinds of psychedelics there are, the history of psychedelics, the uses that now
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:15.519 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): People is having, and even…
00:45:15.660 --> 00:45:29.369 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I always want to include in the last of my books, in the last few pages, a lot about harm reduction, like practical advice, and if you're gonna do it, how can you do it in order to minimize the risk?
00:45:29.370 --> 00:45:40.490 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): as much as possible. That's the… the… the… my intent with… with all of these books, to be able to… to be also useful, not only… not only interesting or interesting.
00:45:40.490 --> 00:45:57.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right, because harm reduction is such an important part of engaging in this, because they are so powerful and so potent, if you are doing it in an unsafe environment, you can actually re-traumatize people. Yeah.
00:45:57.190 --> 00:45:57.690 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Of course.
00:45:57.690 --> 00:46:17.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I actually was going to ask you a bit more about the book, but let's do it after we come back from break. Like, who did you write it for? Because the way you wrote it is very accessible, even though there's some technical terms in it. And yeah, a couple of last questions I got for you, okay, Anton?
00:46:17.500 --> 00:46:18.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So…
00:46:18.040 --> 00:46:18.860 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Yeah, thank you.
00:46:18.860 --> 00:46:35.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to The Conscious Consultant Hour. Our guest this hour has been Anton Gomez-Escalar, author of the new book, The Psychedelic Reaawakening, which is what we've been discussing, and we'll be right back to finish it all up in just a moment.
00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:32.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back. So, Anton, one quick question about your book. Why did you title it The Psychedelic Reaawakening?
00:48:33.490 --> 00:48:35.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And make sure you unmute yourself.
00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:38.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You gotta unmute.
00:48:40.810 --> 00:48:41.900 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Yeah, sorry.
00:48:41.900 --> 00:48:42.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:48:42.740 --> 00:48:43.639 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Can you hear me now.
00:48:43.640 --> 00:48:44.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:48:44.540 --> 00:48:58.869 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Yeah. Well, the thing is that, I wrote a book in Spain that was called, The Psychedelic Renaissance, which is a term that is quite common these days to refer to these last,
00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:13.529 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): this last push of the psychedelic science becoming mainstream, becoming something everyone knows about and everyone is excited about. But in this… in the case of the… writing the American book.
00:49:13.530 --> 00:49:23.200 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I thought that, first of all, this book, this word is now very used there, so it's quite common in the editorial market, like the secondary renaissance.
00:49:23.200 --> 00:49:31.180 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So I wanted to find something original, but that reflects, somehow, the idea that psychedelics
00:49:31.560 --> 00:49:38.280 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): has been awakening for quite a few times. It's not just… it's not the first time that they're awake.
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:41.160 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): It's not the second time that they are awake.
00:49:41.160 --> 00:49:41.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:49:41.620 --> 00:49:53.009 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And I really hope this is gonna be the last time that they awake, because I hope this is gonna be the main one, but for the time being, what we know is that this process of,
00:49:53.060 --> 00:50:04.880 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Psychedelics appearing, psychedelics becoming important, psychedelics being very interesting for the society, and using them, and everything has happened a few times in the past.
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:13.210 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): So I just wanted to use that title of the book to make this point, to make this point about this is…
00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:31.560 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): reawakening again, because it was awakened in the past in some… in some times, but this is, like, the… the reawakening, hopefully, the final reawakening for… for a much better and much longer, use of these substances for… for the betterment of humanity, and…
00:50:31.620 --> 00:50:33.200 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Mental health, especially.
00:50:34.060 --> 00:50:46.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the book is a very comprehensive book. You touch upon a lot of different aspects, you touch upon, you know, some very technical aspects.
00:50:46.420 --> 00:50:59.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who is the book written for? Is it written for professionals who want to become psychedelic-assisted therapists? Is it for facilitators? Is it for the average person who just is curious about psychedelics?
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:17.199 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): That's a great idea, because at the beginning, I wasn't sure who could be my goal reader, and I spent quite time thinking about what would be the best idea. And finally, my decision was to write a book
00:51:17.200 --> 00:51:32.160 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): in a way that is accessible for everyone. Everyone, let's say, with minimum school-level knowledge, I would say, but also allow for some specific areas of the book
00:51:32.180 --> 00:51:43.040 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): to grow a little bit more, and get into a more technical arena. So, meaning that everyone can read that book, everyone can enjoy that book.
00:51:43.040 --> 00:51:45.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But probably, people reading it from a…
00:51:45.460 --> 00:51:55.460 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): less academical background will enjoy and get and understand well the general idea, and people that is coming from a
00:51:55.470 --> 00:52:09.510 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): from a higher academic level, probably will find that aside from the plain language and everything, they have also things that are more complex and more in-depth in specific
00:52:09.510 --> 00:52:26.139 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): places of the book, no? But, well, I wasn't trying to make the book only for one kind of people, or only for the other. I was just trying to melt both kind of interests of both kind of people in order to have something that could be useful for everyone.
00:52:26.140 --> 00:52:38.820 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And that's what I tried. I hope I can kind of succeed, but not sure for the time being. But I hope people will like it, no matter what their background or academic level is.
00:52:39.050 --> 00:52:54.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, I find it very accessible, but comprehensive, so I think it can be… touch a lot of people, and I highly encourage people who are listening, if you have any interest in psychedelics, or you want a deeper understanding, to pick up the book.
00:52:54.570 --> 00:53:08.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious, I remember I heard about a study a few years ago where they looked at brain scans of longtime meditators who had been meditating 20, 30 years, Buddhist monks and stuff.
00:53:08.350 --> 00:53:14.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And they found that there were some similarities to people who engaged in psychedelics in terms of the.
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:23.459 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): I guess the density of the neural activity and stuff. I'm curious about why you think that would be, and…
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:25.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, what that correlation might be.
00:53:27.170 --> 00:53:40.860 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Well, I think that this… it's a very normal result to find in a study like this. I mean, it's something that a lot of people was expecting to find, because if you think about it.
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:43.980 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Both meditation and the use of psychedelics
00:53:44.010 --> 00:53:46.360 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Share a lot of characteristics in common.
00:53:46.380 --> 00:54:01.960 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Of course, the methodology is very different. It's not the same ingesting a substance wherever you are and having, like, a very strong trip than just sitting, for some minutes or even hours, focusing on your breathe and trying to
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:15.259 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): to be there, and to disattach from your thoughts and everything. But, in the… if you go to the brain, if you see what happens in the brain, you see that the processes happening are very similar.
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:24.039 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): For example, there is this reduction of the activity of the default mode network that we said before, that is in charge of
00:54:24.080 --> 00:54:33.490 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Keeping the high-level beliefs or belief models of the world that we have, that we have built over our life.
00:54:33.530 --> 00:54:47.200 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Also, the… you see, like, how the brain can get very calm in a state where the frequency of electrical signals of the different neurons
00:54:47.200 --> 00:55:02.110 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): is low, but also the person is not sleeping, so it's there, it's feeling the bee here and now. So this idea that psychedelics can make you feel here and now, and kind of stop any kind of…
00:55:02.110 --> 00:55:10.410 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Rumination that might be in your brain for whatever that you're thinking about, or any preoccupation that you can have in your head.
00:55:10.430 --> 00:55:30.210 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Psychedelics and meditations both are able to get you there. But the difference, in my opinion, and this is a very important one, is that when someone is already having problems because they have a pathological situation, like, for example, depression or anxiety, it's very difficult to train that person into meditation.
00:55:30.210 --> 00:55:35.419 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): as a way to improve. It's much easier to give them a psychedelic
00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:56.799 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): for them to have the experience, and to have all the benefits that we have been talking about, and later, after that, when a person is feeling better, to start building the skill of meditation. Because meditation is a skill that you cannot develop while you are in a bad place, or it's very difficult to develop when you are in a bad place.
00:55:56.810 --> 00:56:10.249 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): is a tool that should be developed when you are in a good moment, to use it when you are in a bad moment. But it's important to have this possibility, and that's why psychedelics, in my opinion, are going to be preferable
00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:22.440 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): If we compare them to meditation, in order to take someone with a major depression that is gonna struggle a lot to be every day for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or half an hour.
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:35.190 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): focus in breathing and everything. It's gonna be probably much easier for them just to take a substance in a controlled and very well-supervised environment with professional mental health.
00:56:35.450 --> 00:56:49.279 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): and then have the experience, and later, after that, they can start developing the capacity on the… or the natural way of accessing these states without the Saxons, no? Anyway, the…
00:56:49.510 --> 00:56:53.939 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): The depth and the intensity of the psychedelic experience
00:56:53.940 --> 00:57:02.080 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): It's still way higher than the depth and the intensity of the meditator.
00:57:02.080 --> 00:57:17.119 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): achieving that thing, no? But it's very interesting to see that there is a mechanism that is shared by these two different techniques. And this points out that… to a very interesting, also, path, that is the path of why do we have
00:57:17.120 --> 00:57:20.159 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): These things in our brain, name it…
00:57:20.160 --> 00:57:30.460 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): neuroreceptors for psychedelics, or for meditation. What is the role of this receptor there? And the…
00:57:30.460 --> 00:57:46.850 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): why they are so important for our survival, that we have kept them over millions and millions and millions of years. So we are touching here in something that is important for the survival of the human being, and it's not just
00:57:46.990 --> 00:58:06.970 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): people having hallucination with using recreational drugs, and having unuseful experiences. We are talking about having useful, important experiences in a good setting, with good control, and especially with good outcomes, and hopefully with,
00:58:06.970 --> 00:58:09.650 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Curation as the end of the, of the path.
00:58:10.520 --> 00:58:29.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, Anton, unfortunately, we have to leave it there. As I said, I have many more questions for you that I knew we wouldn't get to, but if you ever come out with a new book or anything new, I would love to have you back on the show in the future. If people want to learn more about you or get in touch with you, how can they find you online? Where would they reach out to you?
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:36.150 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Yeah, well, on my social networks, my name is Anton Gomez Escolar.
00:58:36.180 --> 00:58:48.869 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): But everyone can find me easier by typing Drogopedia. Drogopedia is the website I developed for drug education purposes and harm reduction.
00:58:48.870 --> 00:58:57.669 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And it's also an account that is in TikTok, in Instagram, in YouTube, in X, in all the social networks, so…
00:58:58.270 --> 00:59:06.200 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): Both are places you can find me, easy, and I would be super glad and happy to answer to anyone.
00:59:06.450 --> 00:59:07.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Alright.
00:59:08.030 --> 00:59:26.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Anton. So much for taking the time to come on the show today and share your knowledge and wisdom. And again, the name of his new book is The Psychedelic Reaawakening. This is what it looks like if you're watching the livestream. Highly recommend the book. Thank you, Anton.
00:59:26.540 --> 00:59:28.010 Anton Gomez-Escolar (@drogopedia): And, and, of course…
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:44.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you, there is no show, and if you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio.nyc, or on any of the podcasting platforms, Apple, Spotify, Pandora, iHeartRadio, Amazon.
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:50.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you for tuning in. Take care, everyone. We will talk to you all next week.
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