[NEW EPISODE] What Is This Thing Called Spirituality?

In this episode we explore what spirituality is, what it really means, how it differs from religion and why so many seek it for deeper meaning and connection.

My guest John-Paul Anderson shares his own journey and how it led to him creating Ritune.me, a platform for spiritual exploration and growth. Discovery how spirituality can support mental health and overall wellbeing.

Ritune.me

Website: restoretranquility.com
IG: instgram.com/restoretranquility
YT: youtube.com/@restoretranquility
LI: linkedin.com/in/shervonlaurice
Circle: the-expansion-room.circle.so

‍Tune in for this visionary conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

In the First segment Shervon and her guest John-Paul talk about the definition of spirituality and what it means to each of them, as well as the path that they each took in search of spirituality. They also talk about their past beliefs and how they changed and developed into more complex unique systems. The first segment concludes with Shervon and John talking about limbic resonance and how it was present even within our ancestors.

Segment 2

The second segment starts off with Shervon giving us a definition of Religion and talking about how recently people have moved away from religion and started replacing it with spirituality. John then goes on to talk about how religion is a necessary evil, that despite all of the negative impacts and uses of religion, it was what brought us together as a society. Shervon and John bring together everything they've talked about so far by telling us that even if we choose to follow a more spiritual path, that we as humans are social creatures by nature, and that spirituality works best when practiced in groups

Segment 3

John starts the segment by giving us a deeper look into his own journey through religion and into spirituality, explaining what helped him connect with his more spiritual side. Shervon follows up with questions that lead into both talking about how the placebo effect is also present within spirituality, just like with medicine and hypnosis. We have to believe in spirituality and the positive effects of it before we actually can benefit from spirituality.

Segment 4

Shervon begins the final segment by asking John what some of his favorite mindfulness practices are, and both agree that nature has a huge impact on both mindfulness and spirituality, and that beneath every religion there is a thread of truth. “All paths lead to the same place” is a quote Shervon brings up to help us think about the bigger picture of despite everyone's differing religion, all of them at the root help us to become intune with ourselves and spirituality. John concludes the final segment by talking about his website Ritune.me, and what drove him to create the website and connect with people of varying spiritual and religious practices. 

Transcript

00:01:08.730 --> 00:01:10.600 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Hello, and welcome…

00:01:13.270 --> 00:01:29.739 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome to the expansion room. I'm glad that we are back, and this is the space for deep healing, clarity, and growth, and so today's topic is really in line with that. We'll be talking about spirituality today. More specifically.

00:01:29.890 --> 00:01:33.210 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What is spirituality?

00:01:33.820 --> 00:01:53.640 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: a lot more people are using that word rather than religious or religion. And so I wanted to allow for a couple of episodes where I take a deeper dive into spirituality and how it can…

00:01:53.900 --> 00:02:00.399 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Bring about better well-being, And improve our mental health.

00:02:01.060 --> 00:02:12.779 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So, when we… or when I think about spirituality, I think of it as, deeper meaning, like the search for deep meaning.

00:02:12.920 --> 00:02:20.539 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Connection, practices that help us to feel more grounded and connected to who we really are.

00:02:20.990 --> 00:02:25.940 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And today, my guest is John Paul Anderson.

00:02:26.320 --> 00:02:36.859 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And he is going to share a conversation with me about this important topic, and share in a later segment

00:02:37.150 --> 00:02:48.119 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What brought him to the search for spirituality, and what helped him to… create this platform called RetuneMe.

00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:53.089 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: John Paul, could you share a little bit about your background?

00:02:53.200 --> 00:02:58.389 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And then we'll move into what is this definition of spirituality?

00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:09.680 John-Paul: Yeah, that's definitely a tough one. So, yeah, my name's John Paul Anderson, I have a PhD in Physiology and Pharmacology out of the University of Texas, and

00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:14.030 John-Paul: I mostly… grew up…

00:03:14.370 --> 00:03:24.510 John-Paul: actually Mormon, and then I went through an atheist phase, and now I'm in kind of a reawakening phase, but I know we're gonna get through that later, but yeah. Yeah, I've found it's,

00:03:24.950 --> 00:03:31.910 John-Paul: It's an evolutionary part of us and a necessity. But, yeah, we'll talk about it a little bit later.

00:03:31.910 --> 00:03:34.059 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, I like how you put that.

00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:43.190 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I like how you put that, for sure. I'm seeing and meeting more and more people who identified as atheists or agnostic.

00:03:43.420 --> 00:03:48.740 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And find themselves on the path, because they let go of

00:03:49.780 --> 00:03:53.220 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Definitions that were given to them, or handed down to them.

00:03:53.410 --> 00:03:54.150 John-Paul: Definitely.

00:03:54.150 --> 00:04:02.769 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And I think that's part of the key, right, is the letting go of these old ideas, or ideas maybe that were not yours in the first place.

00:04:03.260 --> 00:04:13.209 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: You know, so… So… we'll talk about how spirituality also differs from religion in this episode as well, because that's huge.

00:04:13.210 --> 00:04:13.650 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:04:13.650 --> 00:04:16.130 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, big part. So…

00:04:16.230 --> 00:04:27.800 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: In defining spirituality, I, of course, went to the books to make sure I have the right words as it's defined in a kind of a dictionary sense of

00:04:27.900 --> 00:04:41.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: the meaning. Spirituality is defined as a broad and highly personal concept, generally understood as a search for meaning, purpose, and a sense of connection.

00:04:41.300 --> 00:04:49.420 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: to something bigger than ourselves, right? Something that maybe we can't even define and put into words.

00:04:50.130 --> 00:05:05.960 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Most people use the word God or higher power, right? But for some people, those words have too much, baggage to them, right? Yeah. And so they may use other terms like universe or universal truth.

00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:09.750 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: For some people, it's nature. Like.

00:05:09.880 --> 00:05:10.310 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:05:10.310 --> 00:05:17.809 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: vast… outdoors, and I totally get that. Or the deep inner self.

00:05:18.520 --> 00:05:24.480 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right? I've also, for myself, started to use the term higher self.

00:05:25.380 --> 00:05:25.940 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Alright…

00:05:25.940 --> 00:05:26.800 John-Paul: I like that.

00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:36.900 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Those are all terms that are kind of floating around in the ether. For some people, I've heard them describe that as

00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:42.749 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It just is. Like, it needs no definition, right? It just is.

00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:49.200 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so, I'm like, now that kind of leaves us broad and open.

00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:51.640 John-Paul: Very, metaphysical.

00:05:51.640 --> 00:06:01.179 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yes, exactly, exactly. And I think there will probably be some future episodes where I take the deep dive into some of the metaphysics.

00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:01.730 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:06:01.730 --> 00:06:07.910 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So, maybe we'll have you back for one. That is, like, right now, my favorite subject.

00:06:07.910 --> 00:06:08.640 John-Paul: We're deep.

00:06:08.640 --> 00:06:18.289 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, a client asked me recently a deep metaphysical question, and man, we went down a complete rabbit hole.

00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:20.449 John-Paul: Those are the… those are my favorite kind.

00:06:20.730 --> 00:06:28.040 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Indeed, indeed. So that's… that's the kind of working definition that we're going to be working with today.

00:06:28.440 --> 00:06:42.809 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And some of the aspects of spirituality includes the fact that it's very individualized or subjective, right? When people use the term spiritual or spirituality, there's no one to say

00:06:43.330 --> 00:06:47.480 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What their experience is, Or is not.

00:06:48.410 --> 00:06:49.340 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yep.

00:06:49.340 --> 00:06:50.550 John-Paul: It's very personal.

00:06:50.550 --> 00:07:02.149 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Very personal, indeed. It's an inner journey focused on the personal experience, beliefs, direction, unmitigated connection.

00:07:02.320 --> 00:07:03.770 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: To the divine.

00:07:04.380 --> 00:07:09.780 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The other aspect is focus, meaning, and purpose.

00:07:09.890 --> 00:07:11.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: People often…

00:07:11.520 --> 00:07:22.679 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Either stumbling on or finding their purpose on a path of spirituality, and that could literally be the work they do in the world.

00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:23.860 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right?

00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:41.490 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I am a preacher's kid. I grew up in preachers' households. I was in church every Sunday, and sometimes on Wednesday and Friday as well, and for events sometimes on a Saturday. And so…

00:07:41.730 --> 00:07:46.529 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I kind of knew what religion said.

00:07:46.850 --> 00:08:06.549 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: about God, and there are people in my family who have moved up into ministry, and my whole thing was, I'm not going into ministry. That is not my thing. That is not for me. I'm not… not here for that. I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna get a degree, I'm gonna be a doctor!

00:08:08.460 --> 00:08:16.260 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And somewhere… In that first semester of sophomore year, I took a class that made me go.

00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:21.309 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And I changed my major to religious studies.

00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:23.730 John-Paul: That's funny. Came back for you, huh?

00:08:23.910 --> 00:08:26.350 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It did, it did in a big way.

00:08:26.490 --> 00:08:30.129 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And… still, I was like, nope, I'm not gonna be…

00:08:30.290 --> 00:08:34.590 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: you know, a minister or a pastor of any kind. And,

00:08:34.909 --> 00:08:42.250 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: when later, working, you know, in the real world after graduating, I started looking for a master's degree.

00:08:42.710 --> 00:08:53.309 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: nothing. I knew I wanted to do counseling, but none of the programs near me resonated until I found the pastoral counseling degree, and I was like.

00:08:53.470 --> 00:09:01.210 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Oh… And it all just kind of came together in this interesting package.

00:09:01.950 --> 00:09:06.070 John-Paul: Followed… followed the path of your parents you so desperately tried to avoid.

00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:13.469 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Indeed, indeed. So, I did not start a church, but my work is definitely my ministry.

00:09:13.930 --> 00:09:14.280 John-Paul: Steve.

00:09:14.280 --> 00:09:15.810 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And, two birds thought.

00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:19.150 John-Paul: Exactly.

00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:28.930 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So, focus, meaning, and purpose. And then, another aspect of spirituality is that it's broad, right? When we think of religion.

00:09:29.140 --> 00:09:32.380 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: There's a structure and limits.

00:09:32.740 --> 00:09:39.680 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And when people use the word or terminology of spiritual or spirituality, it is broad.

00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.020 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And it's inclusive.

00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:47.609 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And it's really hard to say to another person, well, what you're doing is not really spiritual.

00:09:47.780 --> 00:09:48.280 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:09:48.280 --> 00:09:51.269 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Because it's so subjective, right?

00:09:51.270 --> 00:09:51.710 John-Paul: Ted.

00:09:51.710 --> 00:09:52.550 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So…

00:09:52.550 --> 00:09:54.299 John-Paul: Definitely not something you should,

00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:58.879 John-Paul: You should try and bucket spirituality and non-spirituality.

00:09:58.880 --> 00:09:59.310 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Dude.

00:09:59.310 --> 00:10:03.859 John-Paul: They often inter… intertwine and enhance each other, interestingly enough, but…

00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:04.980 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely.

00:10:05.140 --> 00:10:21.489 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely. So, and then the last aspect is the sense of personal growth. I have never met a person who identified as spiritual, who did not feel they were on a path of spiritual growth, personal growth.

00:10:22.310 --> 00:10:24.880 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yep. Which changes everything.

00:10:25.160 --> 00:10:25.770 John-Paul: Yep.

00:10:26.160 --> 00:10:27.090 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:10:27.090 --> 00:10:30.149 John-Paul: It's, helps you get out of bed in the morning.

00:10:30.390 --> 00:10:31.130 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It does.

00:10:31.130 --> 00:10:31.780 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:10:31.780 --> 00:10:39.470 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It does. It elevates us, I think. And I think for… for me, and this may be also for you.

00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:45.370 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: That personal growth spills into other aspects of your life.

00:10:45.880 --> 00:10:52.460 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right? Spills into how you connect with the people that you love, maybe the people that you work with.

00:10:52.570 --> 00:10:57.770 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Friends, and in the kind of work you choose to do.

00:10:58.980 --> 00:10:59.630 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:10:59.630 --> 00:11:04.690 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Or the way you do so, because you might already be in the path, of work.

00:11:04.970 --> 00:11:07.709 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: But you may shift How you work.

00:11:08.630 --> 00:11:10.539 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We're lined with that growth.

00:11:11.580 --> 00:11:15.350 John-Paul: Yeah, definitely. I think, it will,

00:11:16.030 --> 00:11:22.880 John-Paul: It depends on how… how strong your faith is, I guess, but yeah, it'll influence…

00:11:23.060 --> 00:11:24.659 John-Paul: Everything about you.

00:11:24.810 --> 00:11:29.230 John-Paul: So… For me, I feel like…

00:11:29.530 --> 00:11:32.270 John-Paul: I… I have kind of a strange…

00:11:32.590 --> 00:11:41.769 John-Paul: belief system, I guess. I kind of believe in something called the meta-organism. I don't know if you believe or heard of that, but that we're all kind of cells in this giant body.

00:11:41.870 --> 00:11:43.500 John-Paul: That's the human race.

00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:46.119 John-Paul: And depending on how much we…

00:11:46.590 --> 00:11:58.950 John-Paul: communicate with each other, and how much we… how much love we give to certain people. It's the same thing as, like, cell-to-cell communication, and we're so connected to each other that, especially now with the internet and everything.

00:11:58.950 --> 00:11:59.390 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So…

00:11:59.390 --> 00:12:06.560 John-Paul: it's something that you… Are almost the same organism.

00:12:06.670 --> 00:12:16.789 John-Paul: And you have similar thoughts, and I find more and more with strangers, I'm finishing their sentences, and they're finishing mine, and so we're all kind of one big…

00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:34.319 John-Paul: one big creature, the human species, and I feel like that helps influence my decision that if I'm hurting another person, it's like I'm hurting myself. So, and I do that, especially with my kids. I'm like, well, the more love and communication and,

00:12:34.570 --> 00:12:40.550 John-Paul: cytokine signals I give them to use the molecular biology term, which.

00:12:40.550 --> 00:12:40.970 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yes.

00:12:40.970 --> 00:12:50.330 John-Paul: Basically love, the more they'll grow and the happier they are, whereas if you starve cells, if you send them bad signals.

00:12:50.650 --> 00:12:56.500 John-Paul: then they kind of rot and fade away, and so I feel like we're all just one…

00:12:56.760 --> 00:13:07.029 John-Paul: one big thing in this together, and yes, there's competition, but if you hurt another person, you're basically just damaging the body whole, so…

00:13:07.280 --> 00:13:10.479 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Indeed, kind of that collective consciousness.

00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:17.429 John-Paul: The collective consciousness. I think it's… we're pretty much there with how connected we are as a species. I think we're all kind of…

00:13:17.540 --> 00:13:21.259 John-Paul: Writing the same frequency these days, whether we like it or not.

00:13:21.530 --> 00:13:29.280 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Agreed. Agreed. What you were saying about the connection there reminded me of the…

00:13:30.030 --> 00:13:33.109 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: research, I think it was in Japan, with the water.

00:13:33.650 --> 00:13:35.070 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: and speaking…

00:13:35.450 --> 00:13:43.919 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Bad words, or mean words to the water, kind words, loving words, and the effect that it had on.

00:13:43.920 --> 00:13:45.300 John-Paul: resonated differently.

00:13:45.300 --> 00:13:45.960 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:13:46.380 --> 00:13:48.160 John-Paul: Yeah, yeah, there's something called.

00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:48.870 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: favorites.

00:13:48.870 --> 00:13:58.989 John-Paul: Limbic resonance, where you're actually syncing up with a person's, like, breath and heart rate and everything, and the closer you are, the more you sync up, so…

00:13:58.990 --> 00:13:59.870 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yes.

00:13:59.870 --> 00:14:07.940 John-Paul: There's definitely auras and things like that. I think ancestors felt it, but they didn't know how to explain it, and we're kind of figuring it out the more we…

00:14:08.300 --> 00:14:10.659 John-Paul: The more sensitive our equipment gets.

00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:27.460 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely, absolutely. Great. Well, we're about to take a break, and so when we come back, we're going to be talking more about what this thing is called spirituality, and why people are seeking

00:14:27.460 --> 00:14:33.339 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: spirituality more now than religion. So come on back.

00:14:34.530 --> 00:14:35.100 John-Paul: Great.

00:16:50.380 --> 00:16:56.530 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the Expansion Room, and today we are talking about spirituality.

00:16:56.630 --> 00:17:14.720 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And what it is, and how it can benefit our mental health and overall well-being. And my guest is John Paul Anderson, and in the first segment, we talked a little bit about the definition of spirituality, and

00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:35.070 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I would be remiss to not give the definition of religion before we move forward, so that going back to the dictionary, so to speak, religion is defined as an organized, institutionalized system of beliefs, practices, and traditions.

00:17:35.180 --> 00:17:43.069 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And it provides a structure, a structured framework for understanding the divine and one's place in the world.

00:17:43.690 --> 00:17:55.900 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And what we're finding with more and more people who are seeking spirituality, rather than religion these days, is that they want to

00:17:56.320 --> 00:18:02.080 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: have a more broad experience of the divine, and not…

00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:10.289 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: one's, not someone else's experience. When we look at almost all of the religions of the world.

00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:14.339 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Each of them were started by someone.

00:18:14.610 --> 00:18:19.300 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Or a group of people that had a specific experience.

00:18:20.030 --> 00:18:23.760 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right? And then eventually it gets codified.

00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.600 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And institutionalized, and then handed down with

00:18:29.010 --> 00:18:37.199 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: what now a lot of people use the word dogma. And so people are trying to let that go and find their own paths.

00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:40.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so, what do you think about that, John Paul?

00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:47.349 John-Paul: Yeah, I think… I think religion, is unfortunately

00:18:47.650 --> 00:18:58.239 John-Paul: unnecessary evil, I guess, for lack of a better word, and I feel a lot of people use it in nefarious ways, but at the same time,

00:18:58.840 --> 00:19:10.650 John-Paul: it's kind of what brought us together as a species, I feel, and I feel most countries, cultures, societies, benefit a lot from it.

00:19:10.860 --> 00:19:14.790 John-Paul: So, even though there's a lot of evil done in the name of religion.

00:19:14.930 --> 00:19:25.599 John-Paul: there's a lot of necessary good that gets done. There's this book called Sapiens that talks a little bit about it, but he talks about the shared myth. I don't…

00:19:26.270 --> 00:19:38.769 John-Paul: want to go into what's… what's true and what's not. Those are his words, not mine, but a shared myth is what really brought people together who otherwise would just try and kill each other and take their resources, and so…

00:19:39.010 --> 00:19:40.320 John-Paul: I feel like…

00:19:40.560 --> 00:19:45.510 John-Paul: I didn't feel it as strongly when I was kind of single, but now as a parent.

00:19:45.810 --> 00:19:56.780 John-Paul: I… I get it. I get why religion exists, because it's like, oh, I know that person has the same beliefs as me, they can watch my kids, right? I know… I know them…

00:19:58.350 --> 00:20:04.999 John-Paul: Whether from church, or a gathering, or something, and so it's… it's a necessity.

00:20:05.330 --> 00:20:06.470 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. And…

00:20:06.470 --> 00:20:12.049 John-Paul: In some ways, it's… Spirituality has to be tied into that, because…

00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:15.629 John-Paul: You have to believe in something, I guess, to get together. Right.

00:20:15.760 --> 00:20:19.900 John-Paul: As a, community, and so… but, you know…

00:20:20.100 --> 00:20:23.479 John-Paul: A lot of times it's been used for evil, and it's unfortunate, but…

00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:32.579 John-Paul: I think, you know, religious people, generally, they're happier, and they have more kids, and so they're always gonna outbreed the atheists either way.

00:20:32.830 --> 00:20:35.670 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: That's true! It's.

00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:41.680 John-Paul: It's a necessary… I don't want to say evil, but it's just a necessary part of being a human, right?

00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:51.129 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, and I think with the rise of spirituality, when people are able to pair their expansiveness

00:20:51.250 --> 00:20:57.569 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Of their spirituality with the religion that they've chosen, hopefully as an adult, right?

00:20:57.570 --> 00:20:57.930 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:20:57.930 --> 00:21:06.769 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: it becomes a bigger experience. Religion becomes a bigger experience. Yeah. I think there's still too many people who…

00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:14.010 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Use religion or the practices of religion in a kind of default?

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:26.139 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: rather than taking their own inner deep dive to know, number one, does this really resonate with me, or is this something I do because I was raised to do this?

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:27.120 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:21:27.470 --> 00:21:28.710 John-Paul: Yeah, it's.

00:21:28.710 --> 00:21:29.340 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: wedding.

00:21:29.340 --> 00:21:31.510 John-Paul: It's hard to tell the difference, but .

00:21:32.070 --> 00:21:42.880 John-Paul: Spirituality works okay on your own, like, if you're out in nature or something like that, but it only really starts to kick in when you're in a big ol' group, like, whether you're in the…

00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:56.680 John-Paul: one of those non-denominational churches where the music's going, and people are waving their hands in the air, or saying prayer together. That's really when spirituality kind of comes out and shines, and…

00:21:56.840 --> 00:22:07.420 John-Paul: Like I said, I… I think it's a necessary part of who we are, and I think it's… I think we evolved this way. I think people who…

00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:16.099 John-Paul: weren't religious. Like I said, they were less happy, they didn't breed, and they were off in the woods and got killed by a tiger or something.

00:22:16.100 --> 00:22:18.160 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Maybe, right?

00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.900 John-Paul: Whereas the religious people, they stuck together, and so…

00:22:21.930 --> 00:22:27.240 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It does bring about a deeper sense of connection and community for a lot of people.

00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:28.309 John-Paul: For sure, yeah.

00:22:28.430 --> 00:22:37.809 John-Paul: there's really no replacement for it. There's, you know, there's secular groups and Freemasons, although Freemason's kind of a religious thing as well.

00:22:37.950 --> 00:22:42.069 John-Paul: But there's really nothing else out there, and so…

00:22:42.250 --> 00:22:45.770 John-Paul: I feel like, in order to feed that spiritual side.

00:22:45.910 --> 00:22:49.919 John-Paul: You need to have some sort of religion, and it's… it's…

00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:59.889 John-Paul: I've seen people turn to drugs and alcohol and things like that, trying to fill it, but even as an agnostic or an atheist or something like that, you need to find something.

00:22:59.910 --> 00:23:15.719 John-Paul: And it doesn't matter what it is necessarily, you know, as long as it's not evil, but whether it's some kind of nature-loving group, or… because it's… it's… it's in us. It's inherent. It's… I think they're gonna find the gene for it at some point.

00:23:16.890 --> 00:23:31.680 John-Paul: I'm not joking, I think it's there, and I know they've done some experiments where they've, like, shocked the brain a little bit, and it shuts off your religious side, which is crazy, right? You become, like, more cynical and atheist and stuff like that.

00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:32.710 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Wow.

00:23:32.710 --> 00:23:51.040 John-Paul: people attribute DMT, the chemical in your brain, you know, some people take it as ayahuasca, and they have this spiritual experience, like, that's the spirit chemical, or something like that. But, yeah, like I said, I don't profess to know which religion is true or not, or even if it matters, it's…

00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:56.870 John-Paul: I think people just need to accept that it's a part of who you are as a person, and find something that…

00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:05.810 John-Paul: You can accept and believe, to a certain extent at least, and… go with it. Otherwise…

00:24:06.370 --> 00:24:11.630 John-Paul: There's nothing else to fill it, and you're missing out on a key part of what it means to be a human.

00:24:12.350 --> 00:24:18.539 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I would agree with that. I know my partner and I have had many conversations over the years

00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:24.740 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: About this shift away from organized religion.

00:24:26.280 --> 00:24:42.700 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Some of the… some of the benefits of that, but also because people are going more to spirituality, but also the downfall of that is that lack of connection, the lack… the… the lowering of morals that we're starting to see.

00:24:42.910 --> 00:24:49.069 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The things that we're seeing in the news, we never used to see before, like, of how people treat one another.

00:24:49.120 --> 00:24:50.480 John-Paul: No, definitely. And…

00:24:50.750 --> 00:25:03.269 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We feel like there's this sense of moving away from religion, therefore also moving away from a moral code that we all used to kind of carry and agree with.

00:25:03.270 --> 00:25:04.420 John-Paul: Yeah. You know?

00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:11.820 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Every time I hear a story of a young person assaulting a senior citizen, I'm like.

00:25:11.990 --> 00:25:19.520 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I've never heard of things like that when we were growing up. We were all raised with this idea to respect your elders, right?

00:25:19.520 --> 00:25:20.940 John-Paul: Yeah. No, they need…

00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:24.880 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: These ways of treating one another seem to be kind of falling away.

00:25:25.230 --> 00:25:31.119 John-Paul: I agree, and I think with school… whether it's school shootings or just general violence.

00:25:32.580 --> 00:25:40.639 John-Paul: I do feel like the… whether it's the Christians or whoever, they're right. Maybe they're right for the wrong reasons, but,

00:25:40.820 --> 00:25:46.550 John-Paul: It's that… that community, if that fades, and people start slipping through the cracks.

00:25:46.550 --> 00:25:47.210 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:25:47.210 --> 00:25:53.190 John-Paul: They become dark and strange and twisted, and so…

00:25:53.390 --> 00:26:03.649 John-Paul: Unless some secular prophet or something can come along and figure out a way for all the non-believers to unite, and… and,

00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.509 John-Paul: not… not be forgotten, I feel like…

00:26:07.510 --> 00:26:08.080 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:14.320 John-Paul: We… we ignore religion, and we ignore spirituality as a society at our peril.

00:26:14.560 --> 00:26:20.099 John-Paul: I feel like… It's… it's responsible for a lot of the rise in mental illness.

00:26:20.110 --> 00:26:23.869 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It's… it's the cause of a lot of drug use, and…

00:26:23.870 --> 00:26:43.799 John-Paul: and people becoming outcasts. I think, there's something… there's a Christian apologist named G.K. Chesterton, I don't know if you've read any of his books, but, there's something called the Chesterton Fence, and the analogy is, is a person walks up to a fence, and he's like, oh, this fence is in everybody's way, let's knock it down.

00:26:44.020 --> 00:26:48.550 John-Paul: But… Before you knock down that fence, you should…

00:26:48.810 --> 00:26:57.030 John-Paul: you should find out why that was there, right? And then… and then the bulls all run out, and then everything turns to chaos, right? But it's like, oh, I knocked down this fence, you're welcome, everybody.

00:26:57.340 --> 00:26:57.900 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Right.

00:26:57.900 --> 00:26:59.480 John-Paul: These things, they…

00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:13.499 John-Paul: evolve, for lack of a better word. I use evolve way too much because I'm a biologist, but, over, you know, thousands of years, maybe even tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years, these religions, as kind of a bulwark to

00:27:13.850 --> 00:27:15.190 John-Paul: our greater…

00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:28.720 John-Paul: evils, and if we just throw it all in the trash for the sake of enlightenment, we don't know what's on the other side of that fence, right? We don't know what's gonna come rushing through once we tear down

00:27:29.470 --> 00:27:37.129 John-Paul: all the religions, all spirituality, what if there's nothing else there? And… or what if there's evil there? And I think we're actually finding

00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:54.380 John-Paul: there is evil there, and whether it's the Bible or the Quran, they're… they're warning… they're warning us about it. They're like, hey, if you ignore all this stuff, the other side is evil. And I think we're starting to see that, like, hopelessness, despair, where we're losing what…

00:27:54.490 --> 00:27:56.080 John-Paul: What we evolved to be.

00:27:56.590 --> 00:27:59.790 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: There we go. A sense of our humanity.

00:27:59.790 --> 00:28:01.510 John-Paul: Yeah, who we are.

00:28:01.510 --> 00:28:04.409 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, and the divine that goes with it.

00:28:04.410 --> 00:28:05.100 John-Paul: Damn.

00:28:05.100 --> 00:28:06.540 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, for sure.

00:28:07.090 --> 00:28:09.999 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We're about to take our next break.

00:28:10.370 --> 00:28:14.950 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about…

00:28:15.070 --> 00:28:25.189 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: This idea of, like, this move towards spirituality and how religion, affects our mental health.

00:28:25.370 --> 00:28:30.529 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: But before even that, we'll hear more of John Paul's story and how he got here.

00:28:30.830 --> 00:28:32.020 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So come on back.

00:30:39.230 --> 00:30:45.980 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to the Expansion Room, and today's topic is on spirituality and what it is.

00:30:46.300 --> 00:30:55.199 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And some of what it is not. And my guest today is John Paul Anderson, and we're going to talk a little bit about

00:30:55.340 --> 00:31:03.200 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: how you got here, John Paul? Like, where did your… Begin to get you here.

00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:23.370 John-Paul: Yeah, so, I grew up Mormon, they don't like to use the word Mormon anymore, they like including the word Christ, so Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, most people know them as Mormon. I was a… I was a missionary in Japan for a couple years, came across a lot of different religions over there, Shinto, Buddhist, that kind of thing.

00:31:23.490 --> 00:31:32.790 John-Paul: And, I came back, and I had a bit of a falling away from Mormonism, and it was primarily due to their history.

00:31:34.390 --> 00:31:53.019 John-Paul: they were a product of their time, unfortunately, just like a lot of religions are. You know, they… they tried to teach what was moral and ethical at the time, but, you know, if you preach the words of their prophet nowadays, you'd immediately be labeled probably a pretty bad person, at least some of their teachings. Most of it was good, but some of it is just…

00:31:53.290 --> 00:31:58.849 John-Paul: monstrous, but anyway, so I had a bit of a falling away for a few years,

00:31:59.850 --> 00:32:11.429 John-Paul: And I wouldn't say I despise the religion. I grew up pretty good life because of it, and I was happy, and good childhood, but

00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:16.940 John-Paul: I never really got it, I feel like. I never really understood…

00:32:17.130 --> 00:32:34.859 John-Paul: why people were getting these feelings. I thought I was born without the religious gene, because everybody was having all these spiritual experiences, and I was like, hey, what's going on here? I don't feel the… I don't feel the Holy Spirit, or none of these things, and so,

00:32:35.340 --> 00:32:40.849 John-Paul: Later… I ended up doing a holotropic breathwork practice.

00:32:40.850 --> 00:32:41.610 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Mmm…

00:32:41.610 --> 00:32:54.669 John-Paul: And that… that did it. I was like, oh, I see. And I, like, stared into the void, and there was, like, a goth-like creature on the other side, and all this stuff, and I was like, oh…

00:32:54.970 --> 00:33:00.759 John-Paul: For me, it just takes a little bit more to get that… those spiritual juices flowing.

00:33:00.830 --> 00:33:16.849 John-Paul: And, you know, I don't think I really saw God or anything like that, but I got it. I was like, oh, and it was a good feeling, right? And I felt like it opened up different horizons, different ways of thinking, probably a certain part of my brain, maybe it just needed enough blood flow.

00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:19.139 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: To open up, and so.

00:33:19.150 --> 00:33:32.239 John-Paul: I do think that stuff can be dangerous, though, because it puts you in a very susceptible state of mind, where whatever that person might be saying, or whatever you happen to be thinking at the time, can really get embedded in you.

00:33:32.540 --> 00:33:40.859 John-Paul: So I think that's what, stare into the void long enough, the void starts to stare back. I think that's where that expression comes from.

00:33:40.860 --> 00:33:41.860 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yes.

00:33:41.860 --> 00:33:54.060 John-Paul: probably what Paul was talking about, about staring into the mirror darkly, eventually you start to see things, the brain starts creating things, but anyway, so I ended up…

00:33:55.310 --> 00:34:05.279 John-Paul: exploring spirituality more, and I've interviewed dozens of people, like, oh, this is their experience, this is their experience, I see what's going on. And so, yeah, I created this website called,

00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:24.849 John-Paul: retune, which is basically… it's a combination of two words, ritual and tuning, where you use breathwork, meditation, and sound frequencies to kind of open up that part of your brain and become receptive to change and improving yourself. So…

00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.810 John-Paul: I… there's actually a ton of scientific research on breathwork, and…

00:34:29.810 --> 00:34:30.280 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It's out there.

00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:43.719 John-Paul: frequencies and that kind of stuff, and so what I did is I combined all these different things, and I put them into a program, and it's on my website, but basically, yeah, if you're struggling with

00:34:44.139 --> 00:34:55.659 John-Paul: depression or anxiety. I can't say that this stuff will cure you, because it won't, but it will kind of open up your mind to a point where you can kind of figure it out for yourself.

00:34:55.659 --> 00:35:06.449 John-Paul: Like, the vasculature in your brain, you'll get more blood flow, and parts of your brain that would be otherwise blocked, ideally, will open up, and you can say, oh, aha.

00:35:06.580 --> 00:35:12.850 John-Paul: Like, that's… this is what's hurting me. This is what I'm holding on to. And a lot of times, you can kind of…

00:35:12.850 --> 00:35:17.639 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Figure these things out yourself, and that's really the only way true healing begins.

00:35:17.670 --> 00:35:23.360 John-Paul: Talking it out with a person helps, but, change comes from within to,

00:35:23.490 --> 00:35:26.029 John-Paul: To say a banal phrase, but…

00:35:26.140 --> 00:35:32.189 John-Paul: That's the idea behind it, and it's… it's for religious people, I suppose, but…

00:35:32.530 --> 00:35:44.619 John-Paul: I think it's more for non-religious people, and people who, maybe like me, who didn't have those spiritual experiences, and they felt left out, and those type of things. And so with this.

00:35:44.890 --> 00:35:50.190 John-Paul: maybe you'll be like me, and you'll do this, and you're like, oh, oh, I see. I get it.

00:35:50.190 --> 00:35:50.800 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I get it.

00:35:50.800 --> 00:36:06.829 John-Paul: And you'll, you know, you'll get that surge, that rush, and you're kind of tapping into something that you can't tap into otherwise. So that's the whole point of the website. And then, what I'm also doing is I go around and I interview different people.

00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:23.930 John-Paul: for my podcast as well, where I've talked with, like, Hare Krishna leaders, and Druids, and Vikings, and all these people who, you know, they… they sound a… they sound like, something that maybe died a long time ago with their religions and things, but there's a lot of ancient wisdom in there that's fascinating.

00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:32.040 John-Paul: and these forms of spirituality that evolved. And I interview them, and a lot of them have made content for my website as well.

00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:45.290 John-Paul: So, you can experience different things, like Chinese Qigong, and why that helps people, and I include a lot of scientific literature behind it. What I do with it is I try and separate the

00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:52.640 John-Paul: the truly kooky stuff, I mean, like you said, if it works for you, it works, but,

00:36:53.280 --> 00:37:11.679 John-Paul: scientifically backed, I guess, is what I work for. So there's some things that the scientific method doesn't work for, charging crystals, that kind of stuff, but but some things, it does work, and it's repeatable, and it's evidence-based, and so with my website, I only put things on there that have, you know, NIH

00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:24.859 John-Paul: peer-reviewed stuff behind it, so people can actually trust it and know that, you know, I'm not trying to scam… scam them or… or give them fake spiritual experiences. It's something that's, you know…

00:37:25.370 --> 00:37:33.660 John-Paul: evidence-based, if that's even possible, but the ones that do have some evidence, I've brought together and put on my website, so…

00:37:33.850 --> 00:37:49.519 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Wonderful. And that, that, I think, is so key, because we're living in a time where people want real information. Yeah. And so they're looking for the scientifically-backed, evidence-based kind of work. And so…

00:37:49.640 --> 00:37:58.189 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I'm glad that you shared that piece, because that helps for people who are a little bit more skeptical, right? Yeah.

00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:06.830 John-Paul: And they should be skeptical. There's a lot of stuff out there that, you know, it's… it leans too heavily on the placebo effect.

00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:12.920 John-Paul: I feel like a lot of the spiritual stuff, it does lean on the placebo effect a bit, and…

00:38:13.150 --> 00:38:21.439 John-Paul: It's kind of like hypnosis, right? The only way you can be hypnotized is if you believe it, and there's something in,

00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:32.260 John-Paul: pharmacology called the open placebo effect, where basically, even if the person believes that it's fake, the drug will actually work better if

00:38:32.490 --> 00:38:45.760 John-Paul: if they believe that it's real. And so, even though they know it's fake, sorry. So, if they know it's fake, but you tell the person, hey, this is real, and then they believe it, it'll open… it'll open up your vasculature, your blood flow.

00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:53.600 John-Paul: and the drugs will work better. I don't know if I… it's kind of a strange concept to understand, but it's, like, if you…

00:38:53.770 --> 00:39:00.699 John-Paul: If you believe something will work, even though you know it's a sugar pill, it still will work better.

00:39:00.870 --> 00:39:06.139 John-Paul: Kind of strange, right? So, and that's how a lot of these practices work, where

00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:17.139 John-Paul: It's placebo effect, but if you add the placebo effect plus, you know, like, breathwork, or meditation, or that kind of stuff, where that person believes it will help them, it will actually help them.

00:39:17.220 --> 00:39:19.030 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. Right, so you can't…

00:39:19.450 --> 00:39:33.939 John-Paul: you can't help people who don't think it will work, and so it's fine to be skeptical, but at the same time, I feel like if you truly want the best out of it, just believe it will work. That's it! And then you're…

00:39:33.940 --> 00:39:52.850 John-Paul: you know, the cortisol levels will drop, and your blood will flow better, and you'll actually get the benefits from these different things. And it's not just meditation, that's, you know, drugs, relationships, I mean, human beings, we're strange creatures where we can almost

00:39:53.030 --> 00:39:56.760 John-Paul: Influence our outcome just through beliefs.

00:39:57.030 --> 00:39:57.810 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: example.

00:39:57.970 --> 00:40:01.630 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Our thoughts and our beliefs. Our thoughts and our beliefs. That's gonna be a future episode as well.

00:40:01.630 --> 00:40:04.220 John-Paul: Yeah, yeah, I've already…

00:40:04.220 --> 00:40:06.690 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: into some of the metaphysics behind.

00:40:06.690 --> 00:40:19.410 John-Paul: Yeah, I probably did a terrible job explaining it, but it's the same thing with, with my website. I encourage people, you know, like, if you're really trying to fix yourself, you need to believe that this stuff will work, and then you kind of…

00:40:19.730 --> 00:40:26.760 John-Paul: are receptive to it, and you open up your mind, and… and it will help more. You don't… if you go into it.

00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:46.560 John-Paul: And you're like, oh, this is all nonsense, it's not gonna work as well, because, you know, humans are human, and we block things that we don't think are good, and we accept things that we think are good. And so, whether it's… doesn't matter what it is, if it's my program, if it's your therapy sessions, whatever it is, you have to go in with an open heart and an open mind.

00:40:46.600 --> 00:40:52.760 John-Paul: And thinking that it will actually help you, but if you don't, you're not gonna get anything out of it, and so…

00:40:53.070 --> 00:41:00.139 John-Paul: you know, you should… you should be a… be a… be a yes man, or a yes woman, like that Jim Carrey movie. And…

00:41:00.390 --> 00:41:02.419 John-Paul: What's the worst that could happen, you know?

00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:03.020 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: strength.

00:41:03.380 --> 00:41:04.270 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: That's…

00:41:04.270 --> 00:41:09.060 John-Paul: That's how we are as people, and that's how I approach it with a scientific mind.

00:41:09.370 --> 00:41:12.320 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And how the placebo effect is so real.

00:41:13.080 --> 00:41:14.570 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Thank you for sharing that.

00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:19.059 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And thanks for sharing how you started Retune.

00:41:20.990 --> 00:41:29.909 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: How has your understanding of spirituality evolved since that moment that you had that breathwork practice?

00:41:29.910 --> 00:41:41.560 John-Paul: Oh, I think, being a lot more willing to accept that people's experiences are real.

00:41:41.560 --> 00:41:46.909 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I guess. Because, like, when I went through my atheist phase, I was kind of a know-it-all.

00:41:46.910 --> 00:41:52.040 John-Paul: douchebag, and was like, oh, that's not real, you're just a crazy person. But.

00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:58.210 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I've kind of… I feel like I'm kind of past that, and I do acknowledge that people have these experiences.

00:41:58.210 --> 00:42:02.080 John-Paul: And they're extremely personal, and they're life-changing to them. And…

00:42:03.030 --> 00:42:08.199 John-Paul: whether they're scientifically approvable or not, it doesn't matter. You know, to them…

00:42:08.200 --> 00:42:09.110 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yo.

00:42:09.110 --> 00:42:13.279 John-Paul: It's printed, and it's real, and… There's no reason to…

00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:19.820 John-Paul: you know, dunk on it to talk like the Gen Zers, it's… It's,

00:42:20.200 --> 00:42:28.679 John-Paul: it's who they are, and it's who we are as people. We need that. We need those spiritual experiences, whether they're, you know, scientific or not.

00:42:28.690 --> 00:42:32.289 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely. I would, I would wholeheartedly agree.

00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:38.780 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: The research has shown that spirituality.

00:42:39.390 --> 00:42:42.610 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Even connected to religion or not.

00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:56.299 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Helps us to build resilience. It helps us to manage anxiety and reduce stress. It helps us to lift out of depression, and helps us to create meaning for our lives in this world.

00:42:56.830 --> 00:43:09.810 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I think it also helps us to not just see the bad, or what everybody calls, like, the craziness of this world, but to also tune into what's good.

00:43:09.980 --> 00:43:11.630 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It's always there.

00:43:11.780 --> 00:43:14.730 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: But if we're only focused on the bad.

00:43:14.870 --> 00:43:26.599 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: then that's all we see, right? Yeah. I think spirituality and religion helps us to then say, oh, right, lift your head up a little bit, and notice what else is around you.

00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:27.330 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:43:27.330 --> 00:43:33.930 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: You know, and that's one of the, I think, biggest benefits

00:43:34.410 --> 00:43:39.330 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: to mental health, and what… it's funny, I've been a therapist for 22 years.

00:43:40.010 --> 00:43:48.880 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: as my client population gets older, right, or I attract older clients, I get more people who are

00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:51.600 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Walking down this spiritual path.

00:43:51.740 --> 00:43:59.069 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Stepping either back into religion, or finding one that resonates with them more.

00:43:59.130 --> 00:44:15.460 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: When I only saw people who were, say, in their 20s, maybe early 30s, everybody was an atheist, everybody was agnostic, everybody was leaving their own religion. Even myself, right? I grew up in the Pentecostal faith.

00:44:15.730 --> 00:44:25.029 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: But there was a point where I just backed way off, because I, too, didn't have the same kinds of experiences that people in church had.

00:44:25.350 --> 00:44:39.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It took me going down the path of yoga philosophy, stepping into taking the deep dive and getting trained as a yoga teacher, yoga therapist, meditation therapist, all the things.

00:44:39.410 --> 00:44:47.089 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: For me to go, oh… I get what they were saying, because I could see, from a different lens.

00:44:47.350 --> 00:44:49.080 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What it was all about.

00:44:49.820 --> 00:44:55.159 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: You know, and so that's the shift. But we all have to make that… that trek.

00:44:55.570 --> 00:44:58.110 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. Find out what works for you.

00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:00.040 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:45:00.040 --> 00:45:01.300 John-Paul: Everyone's different, so…

00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:17.669 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Indeed. So we're about to take our final break, and so when we come back, we're going to tie this all together and talk about some practical ways of bringing spirituality into, or back into, your life. So, come on back and join us.

00:47:04.220 --> 00:47:08.469 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Welcome back to this episode on spirituality.

00:47:08.580 --> 00:47:14.519 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: what it is and what it's not. And we've had a really great conversation, John Paul. Thank you.

00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:16.329 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I think…

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:26.960 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We definitely want to tie this together for the audience and discuss, like, what are ways that people can actively

00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:31.730 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Bring a sense of spirituality into their lives.

00:47:32.080 --> 00:47:41.089 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And… broaden, basically, their perspectives, right? And so, for me, I know, like.

00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:57.980 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I've already done a couple of episodes around mindfulness practices, including meditation, yoga, breathwork, so I'm always advocating for those kinds of practices with my clients. But what are some others that

00:47:59.170 --> 00:48:00.740 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Come to your mind.

00:48:02.150 --> 00:48:08.429 John-Paul: My favorite is nature. I went through a druid phase for a little bit, but… Nice!

00:48:08.540 --> 00:48:22.969 John-Paul: It's, the more I learned about it, the… it's not the less I wanted to do it, the more I realized that it was mostly just a New Age religion. I guess there's no real surviving records of druidry, it's all third-party accounts by the Romans who…

00:48:23.120 --> 00:48:26.540 John-Paul: Thought they were child-sacrificing monsters, but

00:48:27.560 --> 00:48:36.150 John-Paul: But yeah, at the same time, I feel like getting in touch with nature is probably the quickest and easiest way to do it.

00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:44.709 John-Paul: Go… go for a walk, and… in… in your most beautiful place you can find.

00:48:44.830 --> 00:48:53.000 John-Paul: and really breathe in the spirits of the forest. You don't have to go full-on crazy about it, but

00:48:53.120 --> 00:48:58.530 John-Paul: You know, there's… there's something about it where you're… you're happier outside, and…

00:48:58.530 --> 00:48:59.460 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yes.

00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:03.499 John-Paul: And, most religions back in the day, you know, they worshipped

00:49:03.750 --> 00:49:08.049 John-Paul: The moon, or the sun, or the trees, and…

00:49:08.190 --> 00:49:14.779 John-Paul: when you're out in nature enough, you kind of see why. You're like, oh, this is where you're happy, and so…

00:49:15.060 --> 00:49:20.660 John-Paul: That would be… that would be the easiest way. You could go to my website, that would fix it.

00:49:22.450 --> 00:49:28.509 John-Paul: But, I mean, that's a good tool for it, but, you know,

00:49:28.820 --> 00:49:31.779 John-Paul: There's a book I read called Improv.

00:49:32.250 --> 00:49:36.860 John-Paul: which talks about masks, and I…

00:49:37.470 --> 00:49:42.620 John-Paul: I'm still struggling the best way to solve this problem, but,

00:49:42.820 --> 00:49:48.699 John-Paul: It talks about how, in acting, they would wear masks, and they would become that person.

00:49:49.330 --> 00:49:53.230 John-Paul: And there's some African tribes and things who…

00:49:53.680 --> 00:50:12.839 John-Paul: would attribute so much power to a mask that they would have to hide it, except for the ceremonies, because that mask could bring so much power. The point I'm getting to is sometimes maybe you have to wear a mask at first. So you go to, whether it's your local church or something like that, and you can put on the mask.

00:50:12.990 --> 00:50:14.749 John-Paul: Of a believer.

00:50:25.790 --> 00:50:32.150 John-Paul: In that church, and feel your old self and your new self. But, maybe stop, start…

00:50:33.100 --> 00:50:35.760 John-Paul: With something light, whether it's, you know.

00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:41.449 John-Paul: Going for a walk in nature, becoming a nature lover, or, you know…

00:50:41.700 --> 00:51:01.230 John-Paul: universalist church, where it's just, you know, they believe in just about anything, and they take it from everywhere, so maybe for full-on jumping on into a hardcore religion, just do something, you know, light, and put on that mask for at least a moment while you're in there, and soak it all in, and become…

00:51:03.040 --> 00:51:12.489 John-Paul: a follower, at least for that session, and feel what those other people are feeling, at least during that time, and be like, aha, this is what's going on here. And…

00:51:12.830 --> 00:51:20.659 John-Paul: Like I said, that kind of stuff can be a little dangerous, because you're looking into the void, and the void will look back, but,

00:51:21.070 --> 00:51:21.890 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:51:22.350 --> 00:51:40.919 John-Paul: Wear a mask, at least for a little bit, and then kind of open up to what spirituality is, and then when you find the thing that actually works for you, whether it's finding a yogi, or breathwork, or things like that, you can recognize it, and kind of accept it, and have that become part of who you are.

00:51:41.470 --> 00:51:42.250 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:51:43.190 --> 00:51:45.619 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Beautifully said, because there was…

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:55.150 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: When I was in school, undergrad, and had switched to religious studies, I got a chance to study almost every world religion.

00:51:55.460 --> 00:51:56.130 John-Paul: Oh.

00:51:56.130 --> 00:51:57.260 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And…

00:51:58.120 --> 00:52:08.679 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I came away from that experience understanding that there's a thread that runs through every… a thread of truth that runs through every single religion.

00:52:08.680 --> 00:52:09.310 John-Paul: Yep.

00:52:09.560 --> 00:52:18.790 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Every single one. And so there's this saying that I've… I now hear in my adulthood, all paths lead to the same place.

00:52:19.520 --> 00:52:29.979 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so, yeah, trying out the different religions or different practices to see which one resonates for you is so key.

00:52:30.110 --> 00:52:32.339 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: It's so key. Yeah.

00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:34.710 John-Paul: Yeah, go ahead.

00:52:34.710 --> 00:52:41.950 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah, I was gonna say, so yeah, so stepping into, like, these kinds of spaces to see what works for you.

00:52:42.200 --> 00:52:47.520 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Adding meditation or yoga to your life, breathwork, prayer.

00:52:48.150 --> 00:52:53.360 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I don't think we talk enough about prayer, but prayer is important.

00:52:54.160 --> 00:52:59.160 John-Paul: Yeah, a lot of scientific benefits to prayer, and it's kind of akin to meditation, it's kind of a similar.

00:52:59.160 --> 00:53:00.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely.

00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:02.710 John-Paul: Similar type thing, and it's something that…

00:53:02.870 --> 00:53:07.370 John-Paul: Because we're ritualistic creatures, it's something you have to do regularly.

00:53:07.410 --> 00:53:12.479 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. To get the benefit from it. Otherwise, just every now and again, it doesn't really…

00:53:12.610 --> 00:53:15.190 John-Paul: do anything. It's like practicing guitar or something.

00:53:15.190 --> 00:53:15.660 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:53:15.660 --> 00:53:22.079 John-Paul: Like, you practice guitar once a month, nothing's gonna happen, but you do it every day, and then you start to see the benefits, so…

00:53:22.430 --> 00:53:24.570 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely, absolutely.

00:53:24.810 --> 00:53:31.889 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So those are some of the keys, and then, yes, definitely getting out in nature. There is nothing like, for me, walking in a forest.

00:53:32.020 --> 00:53:34.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Or walking by water.

00:53:34.620 --> 00:53:35.310 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:53:35.310 --> 00:53:43.350 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So the beach is my happy place. But also, as I've grown older, taking a trail in the forest.

00:53:44.220 --> 00:53:52.700 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah. And without… without earbuds. Without an audiobook in my ears, without music in my ears, and just listening to the wind…

00:53:52.820 --> 00:53:55.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Rustling through trees.

00:53:55.050 --> 00:53:55.610 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:53:55.850 --> 00:53:56.740 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:53:56.740 --> 00:53:57.770 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Does it for me.

00:53:57.770 --> 00:54:01.710 John-Paul: That's where we belong. I think being indoors all the time, we've…

00:54:01.830 --> 00:54:05.069 John-Paul: We've sacrificed mental health for comfort.

00:54:05.070 --> 00:54:11.170 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We really have, and the research bears that out. The research has totally bared… borne that out.

00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:18.250 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: all the things that I've been reading, the fact that we've all become indoor cats instead of outdoor cats.

00:54:18.250 --> 00:54:18.750 John-Paul: Really bad.

00:54:18.750 --> 00:54:19.799 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: and your mental health.

00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:20.170 John-Paul: Yeah.

00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:22.879 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I did an episode recently on just…

00:54:23.660 --> 00:54:39.130 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: the benefits of the sun itself, getting out into the sun and taking a good 15-minute, 20-minute walk every morning, or in the evenings, and what it can do for our mental health. So yes, I think… I think that is very key.

00:54:39.700 --> 00:54:40.210 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Alright.

00:54:41.240 --> 00:54:43.290 John-Paul: I agree, I feel like,

00:54:43.700 --> 00:54:54.269 John-Paul: Yeah, we're not getting swarmed by mosquitoes, or eaten by lions, or freezing to death, but so we have to do our best to get out there and be what we evolved to.

00:54:54.630 --> 00:54:56.120 John-Paul: To be in.

00:54:56.470 --> 00:54:57.260 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Absolutely.

00:54:57.260 --> 00:55:13.589 John-Paul: Because, yeah, if you… if you go against nature and what you are as a person, Mother Nature punishes you with depression and sadness until you do what you're supposed to be doing, which is, you know, being out in nature and doing what Mother Nature wants you to do.

00:55:13.740 --> 00:55:19.970 John-Paul: You're… you're gonna pay the price for… For fighting who you are.

00:55:20.330 --> 00:55:21.110 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:55:21.240 --> 00:55:22.050 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Yeah.

00:55:22.590 --> 00:55:27.720 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And on that note… spirituality

00:55:27.860 --> 00:55:32.350 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: I think I want to leave it with, spirituality is not a rigid path.

00:55:32.700 --> 00:55:36.609 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: No. It is a flexible resource.

00:55:37.250 --> 00:55:40.659 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: That enhances our mental health and well-being.

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:47.770 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And so if we can think about it in those terms, and step towards something that resonates for us.

00:55:48.300 --> 00:55:50.679 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: We can enhance our own lives.

00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:51.720 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: So…

00:55:52.040 --> 00:56:10.290 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Thank you for joining me for this conversation, John Paul, and I hope that, each person listening to this conversation finds a piece that resonates for them, and that they can then step into something new for themselves.

00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:14.439 John-Paul: Yeah. Can you share, how people can reach you?

00:56:14.630 --> 00:56:18.170 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: What website or, social?

00:56:18.170 --> 00:56:29.980 John-Paul: Yeah, so my website's retune.me, R-I-T-U-N-E dot me, and then, like I said, I've interviewed a lot of different spiritual leaders, as well as, you know.

00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:48.479 John-Paul: witches, and I've kind of kept a completely open mind, you know, and it's really helped me out. And so, my, my podcast is called Empirical Enlightenment, and it's on YouTube, Spotify, all that, so you can just Google that and find me, and find all sorts of…

00:56:48.730 --> 00:56:58.330 John-Paul: interesting interviews with the entire spectrum of spirituality. I'm… I'm very open-minded, unless it deals with, like, drinking blood or something, but…

00:56:58.520 --> 00:56:58.970 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: He's that?

00:56:58.970 --> 00:57:14.150 John-Paul: But, no, most of these groups, they've just been demonized by other religions trying to stop them from stealing their members and converts and stuff, and it's all… I wouldn't say it's all similar, but like you said, it's on the same wavelength.

00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:19.300 John-Paul: It's the same frequency that people are tapping into with just different… different methods.

00:57:21.220 --> 00:57:23.350 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Indeed. Thank you.

00:57:23.430 --> 00:57:43.529 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And thank you all for joining us here on the Expansion Room. If this conversation resonated for you, and you feel like it would be of benefit to someone else, please pass it on to a friend or family member. And if the content that we talk about on these shows and these episodes resonate for you.

00:57:43.530 --> 00:57:49.020 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: Please subscribe on whichever platform you're watching or listening.

00:57:49.040 --> 00:57:57.269 Shervon Laurice | The Expansion Room: And join us next week for another topic here at the Expansion Moon. Take care, have a good week.

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