This week's show - The Importance of Finding the Relevant Executive.
The Making SEAMless Sales Show featuring Art Fromm, founder and owner of Team Sales Development (TSD) plans to have three segments for each show:
✅ Updates and Insights from Art - 10 minutes.
✅ Guest speaker - 30 Minutes - this week Dr. Stephen J. Bistritz.
✅ “Ask Art” - 10 Minutes. We’re looking for your challenges or questions which Art will answer live on the show.
Please submit your questions and ideas here: https://teamsalesdevelopment.com/contact-tsd/
Dr. Stephen J. Bistritz - Author of Selling to the C-Suite and Sales Opportunity Snapshot (SOS) methodology TSD partner - will join us for the guest interview spot.
We'll discuss the importance of identifying the Relevant Executive for your opportunity and the danger of not doing so. Unlike "Economic Buyer" or "Champion" or "Mobilizer" or "User Buyer" or "Technical Buyer" or "Coach" the Relevant Executive is a truly unique, often misidentified, and woefully under utlized key Decision Maker.
For SOS alumni this session will be a great reinforcement. For those of you who aren't familiar with SOS, this will be a pivotal introduction.
Steve is offering a complimentary PDF of Chapter 4 of his book, which dives into this topic in much more detail.
For more information visit https://teamsalesdevelopment.com/12-week-podcast-series-on-talkradio-nyc/
https://sellxl.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Selling-C-Suite-Second-Executive-Successfully-ebook/dp/B0764M9KCL
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevebistritz/
#presales #sales #SalesManagement #SalesEnablement #SEAMlessSales
Tune in for this informative conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Art Fromm opened the latest episode of Making SEAMless Sales by highlighting that sales is not just about transactions but about influence, persuasion, and ensuring customer satisfaction. He explained that in today’s subscription and SaaS-driven marketplace, the real measure of success is not closing a deal but securing ongoing client consumption and happiness. Using examples from customer service and enterprise software, he emphasized the importance of identifying decision-makers, keeping clients satisfied, and building long-term loyalty that fuels recurring revenue.
Art Fromm introduced longtime colleague Dr. Steve Bistritz, co-author of Selling to the C-Suite, who shared insights from decades of sales experience and research on executive decision-making. Bistritz emphasized that sales professionals must continually ask three core questions during every campaign: should we pursue this opportunity, can we effectively compete, and can we reasonably expect to win—and winning often hinges on aligning with the “relevant executive,” the person with the most to gain or lose from the outcome. He and Art highlighted how modern sales requires identifying this executive through probing questions, organizational awareness, and understanding true business needs, since alignment with procurement or lower-level contacts alone rarely secures long-term success.
In this segment, Art Fromm and Dr. Steve Bistritz stressed that aligning with the “relevant executive” goes beyond org charts and formal authority—it’s about identifying the person with the most to gain or lose and earning their trust as a true advisor. Bistritz explained that trusted advisor status is demonstrated when executives share confidential insights or seek your input because they believe you prioritize their success over simply closing a deal. Real-world examples showed how informal influence often outweighs procurement or price-driven discussions, and how communicating value to the right executive secures long-term relationships and protects against competitors.
In the closing segment, Art Fromm applied the concept of the “relevant executive” to a real-world case, showing how selling to the wrong level—like a head of design without authority—leads to stalled deals. He explained that true progress comes from helping intermediaries sell internally and connecting with the executive who has both the most to gain and the most to lose, since they control budgets, resources, and outcomes. Wrapping up, Art reminded listeners to access the free chapter of Selling to the C-Suite, previewed next week’s guest Candy Gray, and emphasized that long-term sales success is built on aligning with the right decision-makers and delivering client-focused value.
00:00:48.820 --> 00:01:08.520 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Making Seamless Sales show. I'm Art Fromm, and I'm coming to you live from Mars, Pennsylvania, north of Pittsburgh. If anybody's familiar with Pittsburgh, it's in the northern suburbs, and ironically enough, I was on a webinar today, and … we were all saying where we are from.
00:01:08.600 --> 00:01:16.160 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And somebody said, oh, I've been to Mars. So, it's, interesting. It's a small little town here up in northern Pittsburgh.
00:01:16.170 --> 00:01:34.000 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Hey, thanks so much, everybody, for joining last week. That was, really fun, and I appreciate all the feedback. Had, surprisingly, and I'm really happy about this, a lot of people on Facebook, LinkedIn, and other streams, so there's a bunch of different ways you can join, which I'll talk more about in a minute.
00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:52.100 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But I was also very encouraged that family and friends were joining in, and they were able to, you know, watch and participate, and had a lot of comments and things like that, which I found very interesting, because I am trying to keep this, both, you know.
00:01:52.100 --> 00:02:09.259 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: specific to sales, and some of the heavy-duty sales, but also, I want to make this available and understandable by others who may not be doing sales as a profession, because after all, sales is influence. Sales is persuasion.
00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:27.329 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And we are doing persuasion and influence all the time in our lives, whether it's in our family, or in our community, or whatever. So, the ability for others to take away key lessons is very important to me, and I'll try to keep mixing that in as we go through.
00:02:27.500 --> 00:02:32.450 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Today we have a special guest with us. We'll talk more with him shortly.
00:02:32.500 --> 00:02:50.360 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And one of the things that I want to give everybody a preview to is that there's going to be a free giveaway of a chapter of his book when we get to that point, so I'll explain that more when we get into that segment. I also wanted to say that we are streaming live on all the different
00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:56.940 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: medias, so we've got Facebook, we've got LinkedIn, we've got…
00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:15.039 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: other methods, so if you are live, and Jesse, the producer, is watching all those streams right now, live, then if you wouldn't mind, just maybe put a comment on there and say where you're calling in from. And I know a bunch of you are calling in from Mars as well, in the neighborhood here, even in my very own household.
00:03:15.110 --> 00:03:22.980 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But, if you don't mind, just put in there maybe where you're calling from, or what your job title or your job function is. And then I want to remind you that
00:03:23.230 --> 00:03:36.320 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We're doing a small segment at the beginning here to get things going. Then the guest, Steve Bistreitz, will be coming on for about half an hour or so, a quarter past the hour. And then the final segment is what I'm dubbing
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:44.250 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Dear Artie, I kind of figured that out last week when I was talking about this on the show, because I wanted a segment where I'm answering
00:03:44.390 --> 00:03:59.120 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: your questions, either live, and Jesse will let me know if anybody has a live question that we'll answer at the end of the show, or if you want to submit it to me, you can submit it through the teamsalesdevelopment.com.
00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:13.710 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: website. So that's my website, teamsalesdevelopment.com, and if you just go to the contact form, you can submit a question, which I'll review and potentially answer live on air next week.
00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:25.689 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Also, speaking of next week, we have a great guest coming up. Candy, who's from, actually, a great friend of ours, Candy Gray. She is one of the early…
00:04:25.860 --> 00:04:43.560 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: reviewers and implementers of my book, for which this program is actually named. So, Making Seamless Sales is the name of my book and the name of this show, and it is all about making sales as seamless as possible as a sales team, but also for
00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:54.979 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: our buyers, or whoever is, you know, we're trying to sell or influence. So, Candy was very involved at the beginning of this when I was writing the book, and she's gonna come on next week to share some insights about
00:04:54.980 --> 00:05:12.630 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the way that she has implemented it, and what she does, so that'll be something you can look forward coming up. But, again, if you go to the contact form, and you want to submit any questions or go through the live streams and submit questions, that would be great. And then that's the way you're going to get the free giveaway at the end of the show for today.
00:05:13.510 --> 00:05:26.220 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, a couple things, just to preview where we're gonna be landing for today, is that whenever we're doing sales, or whenever we're trying to influence somebody, have you ever noticed that
00:05:26.300 --> 00:05:40.640 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: sometimes you can get things to happen when you run into the right person, and sometimes you just get stalled when you are, you know, talking with what turns out to be the wrong person. I think one really good example of this is
00:05:40.640 --> 00:05:59.919 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: whenever you have some kind of problem, whether it's with your cell phone or your internet or whatever, and you're calling a typical, you know, call agent, and they have to go through all the typical questions and all those things, and you're sort of making some progress, but not really making progress, and then I think we've all figured out that one of the ways you can get
00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:11.829 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: better results is to ask for a manager. And of course, now, they're a little bit wise to that, so sometimes they will say, well, there's no manager available, they'll call you back later, and then maybe they call, maybe they don't.
00:06:11.870 --> 00:06:23.850 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But the idea with that is we're trying to get to somebody that's of a higher authority, or somebody that has more skin in the game to try to help us, because we're in the middle of some kind of problem.
00:06:23.850 --> 00:06:42.260 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We're an unhappy customer, and we want resolution, and you would think that they should want resolution as well. And believe me, I'm not disparaging anybody that does call centers, I know it's a very, very hard job, and we've all had good experiences, and we've all had challenging experiences.
00:06:42.260 --> 00:06:55.169 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But one of the things is that that person who's on the other end of the phone should realize and see us as a customer and a client who they're trying to make happy, and they should do everything in their power to help us.
00:06:55.350 --> 00:06:59.630 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The problem is, they may be limited in what they're allowed to do.
00:07:00.010 --> 00:07:10.339 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And I don't know if you're anything like me, but I'm pretty well convinced that in many cases, they just, unfortunately, and I think this is the company, not the individuals.
00:07:10.790 --> 00:07:21.870 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Many companies seem to make these processes very difficult, to where, you know, maybe they put you on hold for a while, and they have terrible hold music, by the way, if you've ever experienced that.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:31.750 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Or, you know, they go through it, and you think you've got it resolved, and you write their name down and everything, and lo and behold, they don't follow up on it.
00:07:31.750 --> 00:07:34.879 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I've had numerous cases where I've had to call back
00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:54.109 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: you know, 2 or 3 times after a week or two when they said that the refund was going to be issued or whatever, and it just doesn't happen. So, what do we do? We short-circuit that by trying to ask for manager, and very often, I've had great success with getting a manager. Now, why would a manager matter, besides the fact that
00:07:54.110 --> 00:08:08.709 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: you know, they are in charge of the people. Well, it's because they would have probably more of a vested interest in addressing our concerns. They don't want to lose us as a customer. And anybody that's, you know, involved with sales or marketing.
00:08:08.890 --> 00:08:15.859 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And for those of you who may not, the concept is, if you have a customer, and you can keep them, and they're happy.
00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:21.260 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: then they will continue to be the customer. If they are unhappy.
00:08:21.390 --> 00:08:25.649 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Not only will they most likely potentially not be a customer.
00:08:25.950 --> 00:08:30.709 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: They will also probably tell 10 other people about the bad service.
00:08:30.710 --> 00:08:46.420 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, again, whether we are just providing a service to our community, to a social organization or church, whatever, we want to do the best we can to help others so that they are satisfied, and that's a big theme of making seamless sales. It's about
00:08:46.420 --> 00:08:50.970 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Making and making sure the customer, the client, is satisfied.
00:08:50.970 --> 00:09:07.829 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And in a sales environment for business-to-business sales or SaaS-type sales, and if anybody doesn't know about SaaS sales, that's recurring subscriptions. So think about those free apps that you got on your iPhone or your Android phone.
00:09:07.830 --> 00:09:25.429 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And then it usually has something where you hit a limit, and they go, okay, now you gotta pay for it. Well, if you're happy with it, and you continue to pay for it, that's great for them. So, customer service should be focused on making a client happy. Sales should have the idea in mind of making the client happy.
00:09:25.430 --> 00:09:37.300 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: It's not really about… it shouldn't be about us trying to sell, it should be about making the client happy. So, when we have an issue as a customer, and we call in and that
00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:57.309 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: customer service person is not making us happy, one thing we can and should do is ask for a manager, because they are measured on satisfaction of the customer. They don't want to lose the customer, and therefore, they would be more likely to help us out. So, that's just one, you know, example of the type of thing we're going to talk about today.
00:09:57.310 --> 00:10:06.709 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: in more of a business environment. And what I would recommend is, again, if you are trying to work on any type of sales.
00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:22.289 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: one thing that I coined in the book, and again, I'll show you at the break, there's going to be a place where you could get this, and if you're on the audio, you can go to Teamsalesdevelopment.com to get more information. But one of the things in the book that I point out is that
00:10:22.450 --> 00:10:27.559 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Especially when it comes to these subscription or consumption-type sales.
00:10:27.950 --> 00:10:41.859 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the sale does not end at the point where what traditionally would be called a close of the deal, or a close of the sale. Back in the day, and I think I have one of these ancient artifacts here, back in the day.
00:10:42.270 --> 00:10:58.459 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: many of us were involved with software sales, where the software would come on a CD, or a DVD, as the case might be, and when we completed the sale, when we got the sign-off for the sale, we would ship the CD to the client.
00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:07.199 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And I'm talking about big enterprise-type stuff that's, you know, very, very critical for business continuity and other purposes. And…
00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:25.350 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Technically, once we shipped that to them, we could consider that a sale, and that entire million, two million, whatever it was, you know, $5 million deal, or $100,000 of deal, was actually put on the books as a sale, because the software had transferred over to that client.
00:11:25.350 --> 00:11:35.540 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Now, our goal, of course, was to still make them happy, but usually the salesperson went on to go do something else. They went on to the next deal, and it was up to the
00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:43.420 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: support people, like the people that you call when you're, you know, having a problem with your phone or whatever, it was up to the support people to
00:11:43.640 --> 00:11:50.579 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: have that customer be happy. They might pay a maintenance fee to get some software updates, but
00:11:50.580 --> 00:12:06.980 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: sometimes they didn't do anything with it, or they might have bought a full capability, and they only used a small part of it. So there used to be this term that was called shelfware, and any of you that have been around long enough have probably heard of that, and it's where the sale was done.
00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:22.580 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: and the CD was shipped, or the thing was delivered, and we took that as a sale, but yet the customer never did anything with it. And that certainly wasn't, like, advocated as an outcome, but it was often an outcome that
00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:28.060 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Frankly, didn't really matter to the salesperson, because they got the sale.
00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:45.649 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Now, it's way different, and this is one of the big changes that made me write the book, and also is why I did this show, is because now, a sale doesn't mean that you're taking all that revenue. The revenue often doesn't come until the customer starts to use your solution.
00:12:45.730 --> 00:12:48.610 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I've done work for a lot of different companies where
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:54.539 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the sale is just what I've coined now, is a commitment to consume.
00:12:54.550 --> 00:13:03.140 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So we're getting the client to agree they like the solution, they are going to use it, and they will consume it, and they only pay
00:13:03.140 --> 00:13:27.530 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: if they actually consume it. I have some clients that it's based on how many connectors somebody used to connect different systems. I have another client who it's based on the bandwidth that's used, so the more bandwidth that's used, the more the client pays for it. In some cases, it's the amount of data that's stored, and we've all got those iPhone plans where all of a sudden it says, you know, you're running out of space on your iCloud.
00:13:27.770 --> 00:13:45.089 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: spend another $9.99 per month, and you can get another terabyte of storage or whatever. So those are the examples of client success that happens after the quote-unquote sale. In a big B2B sale, we do a lot of work, you know, qualification, discovery.
00:13:45.370 --> 00:14:02.069 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: demonstrations, site visits, a lot leading up to that moment of that would normally used to be a sale that was done, but instead, it's about getting the customer to consume. So, what we're going to talk about today after the break, is we're going to talk about the way that we can have the
00:14:02.110 --> 00:14:22.079 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: what we're going to call the relevant executive identified who is going to be interested in consuming and making sure that the success is there, and how we can find that person, and the importance of it. So we'll be coming back in just a minute or so here, and we'll have Steve Bistritz joining us live, so I'll see you right after the break.
00:16:19.030 --> 00:16:20.850 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Alright, everybody, welcome back.
00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:25.070 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And I'd like to go ahead and introduce our guest.
00:16:30.160 --> 00:16:34.010 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Hey, Steve, glad to have you with us.
00:16:37.010 --> 00:16:54.839 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Thanks, Jesse. So, Steve, is a dear colleague of mine. We've actually been working together now 25 years. It's hard to believe that, but we got introduced late 20… I have to think about the way I say 2005, I want to say 2005, but in 2005,
00:16:54.840 --> 00:17:11.500 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: We got introduced because, Steve was working for a global learning company, and I was as well. I was based here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and the global learning company was based in Sydney, Australia. Steve's out of Atlanta. And Steve had a solution that
00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:20.070 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: we wanted to use for a client who was based in Toronto, Canada, and I was, like, the closest proximity working with the Global Learning Company, so…
00:17:20.069 --> 00:17:37.520 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Steve brought me up to speed on a methodology called the Sales Opportunity Snapshot, and we implemented that for a client in Toronto, Canada, and I'm very humbled and proud to say that I still have that client to this day, and they are still doing
00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:53.260 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: workshops that involve the things that Steve has invented and that Steve and I have partnered with on. So, just very briefly, Dr. Steven Bistritz is, was… started out in IBM sales, so he carried a bag, he did all the sales roles, and
00:17:53.260 --> 00:18:10.979 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Knew a lot of different sales methodologies back in the day. Eventually, he was running target market systems and implementing target account selling. So, if any of you remember Taz, back in the day, that was a big deal of the way that you could identify the market you were going after.
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:28.459 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And then, eventually, Steve, developed not only the sales opportunity snapshot, but also a workshop called Sell Excel, Selling to Executives. And as a result of that work that Steve did, he did research and
00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:34.489 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: wrote this book with his co-author, Nick Reed, who I also know and have worked with.
00:18:34.490 --> 00:18:52.029 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And so Steve's book, Selling to the C-Suite, which is normally up here on my bookshelf, underneath there, but I got it out for today, he wrote that, and what we're going to talk about is, what the importance of the… what we call the relevant executive, somebody who should be
00:18:52.030 --> 00:19:08.729 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: very interested in making sure that they are successful in the company, and whatever you're selling is successful, so that they can get what they need to get out of it. So, coming from Atlanta, Georgia, again, nice round of applause for Steve. I'll do it myself.
00:19:08.840 --> 00:19:16.560 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Do you want to just say just a little bit more about maybe the book and the way that ties in with the Selling to Executives workshop?
00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:35.060 Steve Bistritz: Sure. Well, back when I was working for this small sales training company here in Atlanta, after I had spent 28 years at IBM, we did some research on why and how executives get involved with salespeople, and why executives even want to see
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:37.170 Steve Bistritz: professional salespeople.
00:19:37.550 --> 00:19:48.939 Steve Bistritz: So, we went about doing some research, asking them some questions about selling, and about when they get involved in the buying cycle, and sales cycle, and things of that nature.
00:19:49.040 --> 00:20:05.700 Steve Bistritz: And as a result of that, I came up with a lot of content that we used then to develop a number of different sales training programs, but then I also thought, well, this probably would make a good book. And the content of it, the research that we did.
00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:17.079 Steve Bistritz: And also, the sales training programs we put together now form the basis for the book, which is now really in its second edition. It's published by McGraw-Hill.
00:20:17.110 --> 00:20:27.699 Steve Bistritz: So it's… it's still available and still out there. But before I talk about this concept of the relevant executive, which I think is so important, I want to back up for a minute.
00:20:27.850 --> 00:20:36.029 Steve Bistritz: And talk about a sales campaign that, you know, a B2B salesperson, business-to-business salesperson, would be getting involved in.
00:20:36.220 --> 00:20:52.169 Steve Bistritz: And I tell salespeople that no matter what the sales campaign is, there are 3 compelling questions that they need to answer in every sales campaign that they're working on, and they ought to be asking these questions multiple times during the sales campaign.
00:20:52.350 --> 00:20:53.740 Steve Bistritz: Number one.
00:20:53.950 --> 00:21:03.090 Steve Bistritz: Should we pursue this opportunity? What's changing in the client environment that's creating the need for our solution?
00:21:03.530 --> 00:21:22.520 Steve Bistritz: The second compelling question, can we effectively compete for this opportunity? Do we have a solution that can be integrated into the client environment? And have we been able to articulate the specific business value of our solution to the client executive?
00:21:22.660 --> 00:21:30.610 Steve Bistritz: And thirdly, most important of the three compelling questions, is can we reasonably expect to win?
00:21:30.690 --> 00:21:44.800 Steve Bistritz: this opportunity. Are we aligned with the most powerful people in the client organization who can help us win the deal? And that powerful person is typically what we call the relevant executive.
00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:50.879 Steve Bistritz: And I'm going to give you another definition, and I'm going to repeat the definition because I think it's so important.
00:21:51.080 --> 00:21:58.109 Steve Bistritz: The relevant executive is the executive who stands to gain the most, or lose the most.
00:21:58.420 --> 00:22:01.349 Steve Bistritz: As a result of the outcome.
00:22:01.470 --> 00:22:12.659 Steve Bistritz: of the project or application that's associated with the sales opportunity. So what I tell salespeople is that they have to sit on the other side of the desk.
00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:17.870 Steve Bistritz: And view their sales opportunity from the client's perspective.
00:22:18.250 --> 00:22:24.189 Steve Bistritz: So, sit on the other side of the desk, find out who is key to that deal.
00:22:24.300 --> 00:22:39.300 Steve Bistritz: in terms of who's gonna either win the most or lose the most as a result of the outcome of that project or application that's associated with your sales opportunity. And if you can both identify
00:22:39.300 --> 00:22:51.730 Steve Bistritz: that relevant executive, and then align with that relevant executive. That's the person who can help you win the deal. And if you're not aligned with that relevant executive.
00:22:51.770 --> 00:22:57.149 Steve Bistritz: Your competitor probably is, and that's why you're gonna lose the deal.
00:22:57.540 --> 00:22:59.619 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So when I give workshops.
00:22:59.650 --> 00:23:06.979 Steve Bistritz: on this topic, I'll tell salespeople, look at an opportunity that you lost.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:11.120 Steve Bistritz: And were you aligned with that relevant executive?
00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:22.420 Steve Bistritz: I would bet you weren't, and that's why you lost. So that's the importance of, you know, identifying and aligning with that relevant executive.
00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:35.619 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Exactly, and everybody, if you think about it for a minute, if it's the person that has the most to gain or the most to lose as a result of implementation of the project, and we'll conclude this by coming up with maybe some more
00:23:35.710 --> 00:23:47.449 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: secular or basic type examples, but just think of anybody who's got skin in the game. Because they have skin in the game and because it directly affects them, just think about what that means for you.
00:23:47.450 --> 00:23:56.410 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Well, that means they're interested in getting the proper solution. They're interested in an outcome that's successful. So, once again.
00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:14.049 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the ability to use what you have and make sure that it's really successful for them. And I think the classic example is that in a lot of cybersecurity and IT-type sales, there's very often involvement with a procurement person, a purchasing person.
00:24:14.070 --> 00:24:17.300 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Who's gonna be the one that does the paperwork?
00:24:17.430 --> 00:24:35.089 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But if you think about it, they're not the one that has the most to gain or most to lose. If you're selling a cybersecurity solution, a software solution, that's going to be somebody in the business. So, very often, and one thing for everybody to sort of check yourself on right away is, as Steve said.
00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:49.449 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Who are you engaged with, and are they really the one that's got the most to gain, or the most to lose? So that's a key aspect of why the relevant executive matters. Now, what about finding the relevant executive, Steve? And by the way, everybody.
00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:57.720 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: The chapter we're gonna give you is the chapter 4 in the book, which is how to find the relevant executive and all the things around it.
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:09.789 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So tell us a little bit more about what, what, as far as, finding and discovering the relevant executive, because very often we might get blocked, or we might be stuck with somebody like Sherman.
00:25:10.370 --> 00:25:28.859 Steve Bistritz: Yeah, and I think, you know, times have really changed, because, you know, what happened 20 years ago when we were selling, or 10 years ago, even 5 years ago, most of the, you know, calls on clients were face-to-face. You know, you were in the client's office, and you were visiting with the client.
00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:37.210 Steve Bistritz: In some respects, that made it a lot easier, because you could navigate through the client organization, talk to multiple people there.
00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:43.769 Steve Bistritz: And get a sense for who is asking the right questions, who is asking the key questions.
00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:51.389 Steve Bistritz: And who initiated the project or application that you're involved with, that your solution is going to address?
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.509 Steve Bistritz: So, that made it a lot easier.
00:25:54.520 --> 00:26:08.950 Steve Bistritz: Now, when we're conducting a lot of these meetings on Zoom, as we are right now, for example, it's a little bit more difficult to identify, you know, who's the right person in that client organization.
00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:16.110 Steve Bistritz: But, you know, you gotta go back and look at, sometimes, the organization structure, the organization chart.
00:26:16.170 --> 00:26:19.000 Steve Bistritz: That'll give you an idea of the formal
00:26:19.080 --> 00:26:29.749 Steve Bistritz: power. It won't show you the informal power, you know, that person who's got the most skin in the game for this particular application or project.
00:26:29.790 --> 00:26:46.099 Steve Bistritz: But you've got to kind of start asking some good questions of different executives, and finding out the answers to those questions, and that will help you navigate the client situation a little bit easier.
00:26:46.190 --> 00:26:55.660 Steve Bistritz: And sometimes then you can sort of sense out, who's asking the right questions? Who has told you that this
00:26:56.040 --> 00:27:01.260 Steve Bistritz: Application or project is so important to them for whatever reason.
00:27:01.590 --> 00:27:10.230 Steve Bistritz: And you have to start asking those right questions, and thinking about some provocative questions that you can pose
00:27:10.300 --> 00:27:24.310 Steve Bistritz: To those executives, so that you get an understanding from them about the answers that will, again, feed you the information that tells you if they're the relevant executive or not.
00:27:24.390 --> 00:27:33.219 Steve Bistritz: Now, you're dealing with multiple executives in the client organization. The thing that you have to understand is irrelevant executives.
00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:39.790 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: will never tell you that they're irrelevant, okay? So you've got to find that out for yourself.
00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:43.300 Steve Bistritz: And sometimes, you have to find out the hard way.
00:27:43.430 --> 00:27:57.789 Steve Bistritz: Okay? But, you know, you've got to keep your eyes on the ball, you've got to keep asking the right questions, and you've got to talk to multiple people in the client organization, because that's the only way you're going to get a sense
00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:01.130 Steve Bistritz: For who that relevant executive might be.
00:28:01.470 --> 00:28:02.050 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah.
00:28:02.050 --> 00:28:09.419 Steve Bistritz: And part of the sales opportunity snapshot methodology, of which Steve described those three questions as we started this.
00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:23.680 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: is to identify what is the business issue? What is the business need? What are they actually working on? And I know, with a number of different clients that I've had, when we really think about the person we're working with.
00:28:23.830 --> 00:28:30.610 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: If the business need is, like, to, you know, get an alternate supplier, or to
00:28:30.610 --> 00:28:46.969 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: find the lowest-priced provider of a software solution, you'd really have to ask yourself, is that the relevant executive? Probably not. There's a business need. They're doing this for a purpose, and that purpose is what we want to identify, because that's going to help point us to the right person.
00:28:46.970 --> 00:28:56.559 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, one of the things is to ask questions of whoever you are involved with, of what is the purpose of this project? Who… one thing I learned many, many years ago was.
00:28:56.560 --> 00:29:11.539 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: what are you going to do with what we give you? So, even if you sign off on the dotted line with a purchasing person, what is our solution going to be doing inside that company? How is it going to enable something? And they should be able to help lead us in the direction of.
00:29:11.560 --> 00:29:14.869 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: who's asking for this project? Where does it…
00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:27.020 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: where does it happen? And if anybody's in, like, cybersecurity, IT, or any type of software applications, be aware if you're involved at a lower level, like just the IT department, because they are…
00:29:27.020 --> 00:29:35.350 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: A service to the rest of the organization, and the rest of the organization is who's benefiting, and that's probably where the relevant executive comes from.
00:29:35.350 --> 00:29:40.229 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, when we come back from the break in just a couple minutes, we're gonna dig into
00:29:40.250 --> 00:29:52.830 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: how do we, you know, how do we align ourselves with that person? Because finding them and understanding who they are is one thing, but alignment to that person is really critical, and we'll talk more about that when we come back from the break.
00:32:00.630 --> 00:32:13.889 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: All right, welcome back, everybody. So, we're talking about the relevant executive, the person that has the most to gain or to lose as a result of the outcome of the project, or the solution that we are
00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:22.860 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Helping them to buy, to solve a problem. And, we talked about identifying them and, you know, some of the ways that we can
00:32:22.860 --> 00:32:24.760 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Get at the relevant executive.
00:32:24.760 --> 00:32:47.360 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: That's not enough, though. There's other methodologies. Sometimes you might be advised to find a champion or something, or, you know, look for maybe an economic buyer and things like that. And while those are part of what we're talking about, this is a much broader and deeper… Steve already mentioned about their formal power or authority, which comes from their level in the organization.
00:32:47.360 --> 00:32:58.759 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But what we're really talking about here is the informal influence to get things done, because they're motivated to want to have the right solution. So let's talk a little bit about the challenge and the importance of
00:32:58.790 --> 00:33:09.840 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Being a trusted advisor, which I know is an overused term, but what does it mean, Steve, in terms of being a trusted advisor, or aligning with the relevant executive, and the importance of that?
00:33:10.340 --> 00:33:17.389 Steve Bistritz: Right, and as Art said, you know, that term, trusted advisor has been bantied around for many, many years now.
00:33:17.490 --> 00:33:32.280 Steve Bistritz: And I first heard it, I don't want to tell you back when, okay, but it was from an executive at Hewlett Packard, actually, who coined that phrase the first time I ever heard it used, and I don't know how many years ago that was, but anyway.
00:33:32.290 --> 00:33:40.780 Steve Bistritz: The concept of the trusted advisor is so critical, because in order to become a trusted advisor of an executive.
00:33:41.030 --> 00:33:53.280 Steve Bistritz: you have to do some things for that executive. And most importantly, when I ask a salesperson, okay, do you think you have a trusted advisor level relationship with this executive?
00:33:53.320 --> 00:34:06.540 Steve Bistritz: And they'll raise their hand and just say, absolutely we do. And then I'll say, okay, tell me what that executive has done for you or to you to demonstrate that they perceive you as a trusted advisor.
00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:22.369 Steve Bistritz: And if they can't answer that question, you probably don't have a trusted advisor relationship. Now, in going back to my sales history with IBM many years ago, and back when I was selling at Target Account Selling, and
00:34:22.370 --> 00:34:34.100 Steve Bistritz: when I'm in my own company, I probably could talk to you about 50 or 60 executives who I truly had that trusted advisor level relationship with.
00:34:34.290 --> 00:34:40.510 Steve Bistritz: And that's where, when they would call me in and share with confidential information with me.
00:34:40.570 --> 00:34:59.829 Steve Bistritz: They would put me on their team sometimes to help develop a particular application or project, so that I had some inside information about how my solution would fit in with that particular application or project. So it gave me some advantages.
00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:11.759 Steve Bistritz: But I always look at, you know, what does that customer executive done for us? And then, how did you become perceived as a trusted advisor? How long does that take?
00:35:11.950 --> 00:35:21.479 Steve Bistritz: Well, it can take anywhere from a single meeting, I've had it happen in a single meeting, where the customers start asking some good questions.
00:35:21.600 --> 00:35:27.859 Steve Bistritz: I'll give you an example. We had a major professional services company
00:35:27.970 --> 00:35:40.670 Steve Bistritz: come to our, … when I was working for Target Account Selling, and they came to our office, and they said, well, we'd like to implement your solution, but we want to make some changes to the content.
00:35:41.000 --> 00:36:00.320 Steve Bistritz: And our CEO was a hawk on not making changes. He didn't want to change anything within our workshop content. Any of the material, he didn't want to change for almost for any reason. It was really designed, first of all, for high-tech computer hardware, software.
00:36:00.350 --> 00:36:11.329 Steve Bistritz: technology companies and that nature. And here we had a professional services company come to us, and they wanted to make some changes.
00:36:11.580 --> 00:36:27.250 Steve Bistritz: And when I talked to the executive, I found out who the relevant executive was pretty quick, because he was asking the pointed questions, he was asking the difficult questions, and he said to me, Steve, he said, I want to make some changes to your content, is that okay?
00:36:27.580 --> 00:36:33.020 Steve Bistritz: And I said, Norm, I said, I'll make the changes to the content if…
00:36:33.220 --> 00:36:40.599 Steve Bistritz: It does not impact the integrity of our solution, because we know that this solution works.
00:36:40.990 --> 00:36:47.979 Steve Bistritz: And if you want to make some cosmetic changes, we might be able to accommodate those, but we might not
00:36:48.370 --> 00:36:53.420 Steve Bistritz: Do everything that you wanted to do when you initially asked us to make that change.
00:36:53.750 --> 00:37:00.579 Steve Bistritz: And we won that deal. It was a $2 million deal for implementing workshops throughout the world.
00:37:00.730 --> 00:37:08.400 Steve Bistritz: And later, I went to that executive, and I said, Norm, I know we had a number of competitors out there, why don't you pick us?
00:37:08.530 --> 00:37:16.680 Steve Bistritz: And he said, well, Steve, when I asked that question of some of your competitors, they said, oh yeah, sure, we'll do anything you want, we'll make any changes you want.
00:37:17.090 --> 00:37:25.789 Steve Bistritz: And I saw that all they were out for was to win the deal. But you were looking out for our best interests when you answered that question for me.
00:37:25.970 --> 00:37:40.189 Steve Bistritz: So, that… I became a trusted advisor to him very, very quickly, you know, in a single meeting. And we had a relationship that lasted a number of years as he implemented our solution, you know, around the world.
00:37:40.190 --> 00:37:51.229 Steve Bistritz: So, again, a real quick example. Now, you know, Art talked a little while ago about formal power and informal power, and I want to give you an example
00:37:51.350 --> 00:37:58.930 Steve Bistritz: Of how that plays out in the political environment, okay, that's away from business-to-business selling.
00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:04.439 Steve Bistritz: And if you go back to the first George W. Bush administration.
00:38:05.130 --> 00:38:12.709 Steve Bistritz: he had a Secretary of State, and asked the question, how many remember who that was? Most people do. Colin Powell.
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:18.829 Steve Bistritz: Okay? Colin Powell was the Secretary of State. But where did George Bush go
00:38:19.180 --> 00:38:22.830 Steve Bistritz: To get answers on affairs of state.
00:38:23.230 --> 00:38:26.409 Steve Bistritz: He didn't go to the formal power.
00:38:26.630 --> 00:38:32.979 Steve Bistritz: the Secretary of State, he went to the informal power, and that was Condoleezza Rice.
00:38:33.190 --> 00:38:39.009 Steve Bistritz: And Condoleezza Rice was the National Security Advisor. She didn't even sit on the Cabinet.
00:38:39.150 --> 00:38:44.730 Steve Bistritz: Okay? But George Bush talked to her virtually every day.
00:38:44.890 --> 00:39:01.180 Steve Bistritz: He had lunch with her often, she would come and have dinner with Laura and George at the White House, and she would accompany him and his family to Camp David on weekends. So they had a great personal relationship that went beyond that.
00:39:01.180 --> 00:39:19.340 Steve Bistritz: So that was where the center of informal power was. And that was more important than the formal power that Colin Powell had. So just an example of how this translates across lines, not out of the sales environment, for example.
00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:20.260 Steve Bistritz: But….
00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:20.910 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah.
00:39:20.910 --> 00:39:26.149 Steve Bistritz: In the sales environment, you're looking for that relevant executive because they can exert
00:39:26.290 --> 00:39:34.360 Steve Bistritz: A level of informal power that can usurp The formal power that's
00:39:34.370 --> 00:39:50.390 Steve Bistritz: given by the organization chart, for example. And the reason they'll win in that particular situation is because they've got the most to gain or the most to lose. So their neck is on the line for that project or application.
00:39:50.390 --> 00:40:00.690 Steve Bistritz: So that's why it's so important to find out who that relevant executive is, and then to, as quickly as you can, align with that executive.
00:40:01.020 --> 00:40:17.539 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Yeah, and I don't want everybody… I want everybody to make sure you don't miss the distinction between that formal and informal that Steve just described, because if we looked at an org chart, which is usually about all that a sales organization has to go on, is the org chart of the client.
00:40:17.540 --> 00:40:30.840 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: that shows you the hierarchy. Now, that will tell you something, because the higher up, probably the quicker they can decide, and the more power they have to move things around, but even the idea of, like, an economic buyer or a champion.
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:32.709 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Doesn't describe the whole story.
00:40:32.710 --> 00:40:53.480 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: It's about that informal influence, the connections behind the scenes that we really want to do, and the methodology that we have, the Sales Opportunity Snapshot methodology, which, by the way, for anybody that has CRM apps, it is available in Salesforce and in Dynamics 365, so it's embedded in the CRM system, which is important.
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:59.189 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But… that informal influence is so important, and I'll give you a quick example.
00:40:59.190 --> 00:41:12.039 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the client that Steve and I initially got engaged with, who I still thankfully have a client to this day, they were starting to track, you know, we used to have, and you remember this, Steve, like, quarterly business reviews with them.
00:41:12.040 --> 00:41:22.000 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And we would track exactly based on their salespeople's testimony of the methodologies we're implementing, which is exactly what we're talking about here.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:32.889 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Sales Opportunity Snapshot, and selling to executives. That's what they were implementing initially. And they would… they would look at their salespeople to find out the impact on their salespeople.
00:41:32.890 --> 00:41:55.210 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Well, the numbers were off the chart. I mean, they increased their win rate by 16 points from 58% to 74% in the first 2 years, and this was a large company. They increased their bookings by, like, 22%. So, from the CEO, who was the one that drove this project, so talk about formal influence, right? Formal authority, I should say, or power.
00:41:55.210 --> 00:42:04.099 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the CEO was driving it. They knew from the top that this project was successful, and that's why I'm still engaged with them to this day. Now, here's what happened.
00:42:04.120 --> 00:42:05.820 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: About 3 years in.
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:23.600 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: their procurement people, the purchasing people, came to me, because I was running the deal at the time, and they said, Art, we've done a lot of workshops with you already, we're going to be doing a lot more in the future, because, you know, this seems to be working, and therefore you need to give us a discount.
00:42:24.040 --> 00:42:32.740 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And they said they want, you know, they wanted the workshops discounted based on volume. And I said, well, there's two problems with that. Number one.
00:42:32.740 --> 00:42:41.359 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: It doesn't work like that, because everybody that goes to the workshop gets value. So, the amount that's invested by the company is directly paid back.
00:42:41.360 --> 00:43:06.230 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And I said, secondly, if you really are serious about that, I'm gonna have to, unfortunately, tell the VP of Sales and the CEO of the company that I can no longer implement the solution that's making them so successful. And it was a little bit tongue-in-cheek, and I don't know if the wording was exactly like that, but almost as quickly, because they knew who those people were, and they knew that they had the formal power, but also they were the relevant executive.
00:43:06.380 --> 00:43:14.009 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: they kind of said to me, okay, never mind, we'll pay what you're asking for. So that's an example of that procurement person had no…
00:43:14.150 --> 00:43:30.309 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: vested interest in the actual outcome and was trying to beat me up based on price, when in reality, the relevant executive who was getting the gain out of it, they saw the value, and they could then influence that purchasing person to say, no, we're gonna go forward because it's worth the investment.
00:43:31.540 --> 00:43:44.780 Steve Bistritz: One last point on that, and I know we're short on time here, but Art pointed out some real key points there. Number one, when you're talking at the procurement or purchasing level.
00:43:44.900 --> 00:43:50.140 Steve Bistritz: Okay, those people don't understand and can't communicate value.
00:43:50.370 --> 00:43:56.059 Steve Bistritz: Okay, they only understand price and discounts. That's how they're motivated, that's how they're measured.
00:43:56.180 --> 00:44:05.210 Steve Bistritz: But people at the top, or the, you know, the relevant executive and higher, of course, those people understand value.
00:44:05.330 --> 00:44:09.270 Steve Bistritz: And when you're communicating value to them, they understand it.
00:44:09.430 --> 00:44:23.959 Steve Bistritz: And they understand the value of doing business with you, as opposed to dealing business with your competitor, for example. And when you're embedded in an account, like Art has described, that value is, year after year.
00:44:24.010 --> 00:44:35.499 Steve Bistritz: And for them to make a switch now, they have to really consider what the difference in value is going to be if they change to a competitor. And that's what's really stopping them from doing that.
00:44:35.890 --> 00:44:48.650 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Exactly. So, listen, everybody, first of all, Steve, thank you so much for the time and for the insights. Connect with Steve on LinkedIn. There's information in the show notes and in my website, teamsalesdevelopment.com.
00:44:48.650 --> 00:45:05.369 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And then, please, please either through… well, preferably, go to the website, fill out the contact form, and just mention that you want the PDF chapter of Steve's book. He's gracious enough to provide that to us, or you could pick up his book on Amazon or any of the other outlets.
00:45:05.370 --> 00:45:23.950 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Selling to the C-suite with Steve Bistritz. So, Steve, it's been a pleasure, I really appreciate it. I know we'll be talking again, because we always do throughout, and everybody else, thank you so much for allowing Steve this time to share with you some insights. When we come back from the break, we'll finish up with a
00:45:23.970 --> 00:45:29.960 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Dear Artie segment, and that'll include, perhaps an example of a more common
00:45:30.220 --> 00:45:35.360 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: relevant executive that we might run into on a daily basis. So, thanks again, Steve. Appreciate it.
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:38.070 Steve Bistritz: Good to be with you. Good to be with you, Art. Thanks.
00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:23.279 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Alright, everybody, welcome back.
00:47:24.430 --> 00:47:39.360 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Welcome back. So, what I wanted to do just now, and a reminder, if you want that free chapter from Steve's book, the complimentary chapter of Steve's book, just go to TeamSalesDevelopment.com, go to the contact
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:51.520 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: page, and then fill out the contact form, and mention that you heard it here on talkradio.nyc, or on the Making Seamless Sales show. Either one, I'll know exactly where it came from.
00:47:51.530 --> 00:48:05.179 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But we'd love to share that with you. And by the way, I didn't mention this before, but if anybody's been around long enough, Spin Selling, and I have that book up here too, Spin Selling is really what got a lot of this started in terms of consultative sales.
00:48:05.180 --> 00:48:13.960 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And Neil Rackham, who wrote Spin Selling, is the one who did the forward for Steve's book. So, you could tell it's a tight community.
00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:20.949 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: All focused on building on each other's ideas and expanding them further, and Steve has really taken it to the next level.
00:48:21.090 --> 00:48:34.369 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, I didn't see Jesse put anything in the comments yet about any live questions that we have, which is fine. I know we're just building the viewership, and if you're watching this recording.
00:48:34.370 --> 00:48:48.540 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: feel free to jump into the website and use the contact form to provide a question, a challenge, something you'd like me to address live on a future show. I'm happy to do that. I do have a situation, though, that came up
00:48:48.540 --> 00:48:57.290 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: that I was asked about, and I wanted to share this with you so we can maybe diagnose this a little bit in the context of the relevant executive.
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:13.869 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, I was working with a client, and they said, we have a problem, because they, happen to sell design services, so they would go in, and they have, you know, architects, and they have designers, and engineers, and others, and they have all the systems and equipment to do that.
00:49:13.870 --> 00:49:18.479 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: They can help a company when either they don't have enough
00:49:19.060 --> 00:49:30.720 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: person power, because they have a big project they need to take on, or their other typical client is somebody who is lacking some level of expertise. Maybe there's a certain type of
00:49:30.720 --> 00:49:43.990 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: design for manufacturability or other type of design constraints that the client that they're trying to service cannot do on their own. So, they provide the people, the systems, and the brainpower
00:49:43.990 --> 00:49:58.839 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: to help anybody with what their designs are. And they were saying that they were having challenges because there was this one company that they were trying to sell their services to. It was definitely a company that needed their services, but what they said would happen is.
00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:06.919 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: They were working with the head of design, so there's one clue for you right there. They were working with the head of design, the people, the person that ran the design department.
00:50:06.990 --> 00:50:08.869 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And they said what would happen is.
00:50:08.900 --> 00:50:24.519 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: he would get all fired up about a new project that they needed, and presumably was gonna bring on this person that I'm talking about who sells the services. He wanted to bring them on board to ramp up for this big, huge, new, amazing project.
00:50:24.520 --> 00:50:34.950 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And they would just start to sort of get ramped up and not quite sign the contract yet, and all of a sudden, the head of design would say, oh, never mind, that really didn't go anywhere.
00:50:35.010 --> 00:50:50.460 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And then there wasn't the need for the design services. So this happened several times, they were telling me, and their question was, what do you think is going on here, and what can we do about it? So, I thought, this is perfect for our show about the relevant executive, because
00:50:50.460 --> 00:51:02.239 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: what I started to say was, let's ask some questions. What was it that made that head of design think that they had such a great idea that they got all fired up, and they were about to hire you.
00:51:02.270 --> 00:51:21.570 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But then it seemed like it died, and it did that multiple times over. I said, who were they trying to sell to internally? I mean, was this head of design coming up with these ideas themselves? And it turned out, as this person was, you know, being retrospective about what's going on, they said, yeah, it seems like
00:51:21.570 --> 00:51:34.319 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: They had a great idea, and they were trying to push it into the organization as this new thing that the company, that their company, the client company, should do, and it seems like that's when it was dying.
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:45.310 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So I said, well, let's take a look at what's the business need here, what's really going on. Sounds like the business need is design services, but it isn't really… that isn't really the business need.
00:51:45.310 --> 00:51:55.099 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: That's an enabler. The design services are what helps that business to make their machines, or do their manufacturing, or do their… their…
00:51:55.100 --> 00:52:00.149 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: computer programming to make their milling machines work, or whatever the case is. I said.
00:52:00.430 --> 00:52:07.110 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I think what might be going on is we're not working with the relevant executive. What if we were able to help the head of design
00:52:07.160 --> 00:52:18.729 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: think about the way that they can make themselves more relevant or interesting. And again, going back to what Steve said about value, somebody in that company is not valuing
00:52:18.730 --> 00:52:33.780 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: what the head of design is proposing. And it might be the best idea since sliced bread, and it might be exactly what the organization needs, but that head of design's running up to resistance. So what we did was we planned together ways to ask questions around
00:52:33.810 --> 00:52:49.339 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: What are those projects? And for the head of design, and this is important, everybody, help the head of design to essentially sell internally so that he or she could get to the relevant executive inside that company.
00:52:49.530 --> 00:53:09.009 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, if the design was to help the manufacturer of, let's say it's a brand new product, well, certainly there must be a product manager or marketing manager whose butt is on the line to make sure that that product goes out the door on time and on budget and with proper quality.
00:53:09.010 --> 00:53:24.499 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And the head of design could very well have this revolutionary idea that would enable his company to be able to produce that product in a way that would satisfy one of those people. And if you just think about an org chart for a minute, going back to the formal
00:53:24.570 --> 00:53:38.410 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: power. The head of design is not going to be one of the C-suite executives. So again, we were talking about selling to the C-suite, a CXO, a COO, a CMO, or a CFO, a lot of C's there.
00:53:38.410 --> 00:53:44.660 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: But one of the people I think would be very important would be, maybe it's the chief technology officer.
00:53:44.660 --> 00:54:03.290 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: who has started to implement a new technology for their customers. Or maybe it's the chief marketing officer who's responsible for a marketing campaign that introduces this new product, which allows their company to win more business. Now, if the head of design can go to
00:54:03.290 --> 00:54:16.509 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: a chief marketing officer and say, hey, you know that new product design? Well, let's collaborate together and see what we could come up with for a new design to help that. And, oh, by the way, and this is where my client comes into play.
00:54:16.510 --> 00:54:29.289 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: oh, by the way, I have somebody I can partner with who has cutting-edge new design capabilities that will allow us to work together to design that product, to make it something that's gonna
00:54:29.620 --> 00:54:46.120 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: compete in the market that's going to allow them to gather more market share and get it out on time, on budget, so that they are first to market with it. Now, all of a sudden, that's the relevant executive that my client, who's trying to sell their design services, should be looking for.
00:54:46.120 --> 00:54:49.839 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, one of the methodologies here, one of the things to think about is.
00:54:49.900 --> 00:55:03.500 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: how can we help whoever we're working with, whether it's that procurement person that's trying to renew a contract for training and wants to look like a hero to the CEO by doing the right thing by them and, you know.
00:55:03.510 --> 00:55:17.970 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: fulfilling the contract in a way that's satisfying for everybody, or it's the head of design who probably has been frustrated a number of times because they tried to do something internally and it wasn't going anywhere. If we can work with them.
00:55:18.040 --> 00:55:27.339 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: to help them sell internally. Now, they work with the true, relevant executive who has skin in the game, who can make things happen.
00:55:27.390 --> 00:55:37.830 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: They can allocate budget, they can allocate resources, they're gonna see what the value is, and now the head of design isn't just a service organization.
00:55:37.830 --> 00:55:47.989 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: providing some designs or providing ideas that don't go anywhere, they're a key enabler of that capability. And whether it's this type of situation.
00:55:47.990 --> 00:56:05.790 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: or whether it's an IT situation or other type of situation where you're dealing with sort of a service person or intermediary, like a procurement person, think about the way that you can make them successful. And the key thing here is who's the most… who's got the most to gain or to lose?
00:56:05.790 --> 00:56:09.349 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Not the head of design in this case, it's who they are helping.
00:56:09.350 --> 00:56:13.229 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Once we find that person, and they can introduce us to them.
00:56:13.230 --> 00:56:32.420 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Now, our enablement of design, and design's enablement of the product solution, makes everybody win. And when we focus on a client's success, then that means we will be seen as a trusted advisor, and guess what's gonna happen the next time they come up with an idea?
00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:44.889 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I think not only could the head of design come to us, but maybe the CMO says, hey, you know that company that helped you with that last design that was so successful? The CMO may proactively
00:56:44.890 --> 00:56:57.659 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: want to work with not only the head of design, but with us to come up with what's the next greatest, best idea, because they might see, and again, back to Steve's point about being that trusted advisor, how we can move forward.
00:56:57.820 --> 00:57:16.920 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So that's a sales, that's a heavy-duty, business-to-business, consultative sales example that, probably a lot of the audience and many of my connections on LinkedIn can relate to. For those of you that are on, you know, Facebook or friends or family or whatever, again, boiling it down to something practical, I would say
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:33.659 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: If you are involved with somebody who doesn't seem to be getting it, or doesn't seem to have an interest in what you are trying to do, see if you can escalate it. And yes, in that case, we're talking about formal power, but that formal power, like the manager of a call center.
00:57:33.700 --> 00:57:39.979 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: Not only has formal power to make things happen to satisfy you as the customer, but they also should have
00:57:39.980 --> 00:57:54.320 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: the vested interest in satisfying you and making things right. And don't be surprised if they start to offer, you know, a free month of services or other types of things for you that they can do to help you move forward. So.
00:57:54.550 --> 00:58:07.960 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: keep that in mind. Maybe another idea is maybe the hostess or the person that you meet at the front end of a restaurant might put you in a queue, but maybe if you know the maitre d', or maybe you know the chef.
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:15.200 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: You know, that's how you could get the good seat at the restaurant. So once again, they're a person that has a vested interest in the outcome.
00:58:15.220 --> 00:58:17.269 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: So, with that in mind.
00:58:17.300 --> 00:58:29.179 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: I will be, putting up on the website the results from the show today, so if you take a quick look here, we've got the,
00:58:30.050 --> 00:58:43.239 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: graphic that I've been showing you, and then I also just wanted to show you quickly the ability for you to find out more about the show, so go to TeamSalesDevelopment.com. The show information is there.
00:58:43.240 --> 00:58:53.859 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: You'll be able to see the replays of the shows, you'll be able to dig into more information about Steve, and then tune in next week when my special guest Candy Gray comes on.
00:58:53.860 --> 00:59:11.080 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: And Candy's going to help us understand the way that she's put some of this into action in the business that she's in, which is to help design very, very complicated security and other type of systems for large, large clients, including huge chains, restaurant chains, and other people like that.
00:59:11.200 --> 00:59:25.679 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: In the meantime, feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. Happy to help you if you have any sales needs, and if you're interested, you can dig in deeper by getting ahold of the Making Seamless Sales book on any of your favorite
00:59:26.710 --> 00:59:42.980 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: outlets. So, thank you all, everybody, for being here, really appreciate the time, and thank you again, Jesse, for producing, and for Steve, for really great insights on selling to the executives, selling to the C-suite. Until next week.
00:59:42.980 --> 00:59:51.900 Art Fromm - Team Sales Development: If I don't hear you before then, from you before then, I'll see you in a week, 7pm, next Thursday night. Thank you, everybody, and take care.
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