You will discover your strategy style and how to navigate your ambition, career, and change with purpose.
In this episode, we dive into ambition, career direction, and the ten powerful strategy styles from the book “Strategy Safari.” Whether you're a planner, visionary, learner, or culture-shaper, there’s a path for you. Discover your strategy style and how to navigate change with purpose.
Sazerac Cocktail Recipe - The Sazerac is one of the oldest known American cocktails and a New Orleans classic. Here's how to make it:
Ingredients:
• 2 oz rye whiskey (or cognac, for a traditional twist)
• 1 sugar cube (or ½ tsp simple syrup)
• 2–3 dashes Peychaud’s bitters
• 1 dash Angostura bitters (optional, but common)
• Absinthe (for rinsing the glass)
• Lemon peel (for garnish)
Instructions:
1. Chill the glass – Fill an old-fashioned glass with ice and set aside.
2. Muddle – In a separate mixing glass, muddle the sugar cube with the bitters and a few drops of water until dissolved.
3. Add whiskey – Pour in the rye whiskey and stir well with ice to chill.
4. Prepare the serving glass – Discard the ice from your old-fashioned glass and rinse it with a small amount of absinthe (swirl to coat and pour out the excess).
5. Strain and serve – Strain the whiskey mixture into the absinthe-rinsed glass.
6. Garnish – Twist a lemon peel over the drink to release the oils, then drop it in or discard.
Notes:
• The Sazerac is traditionally not served over ice, making it a strong, spirit-forward drink.
• Peychaud’s bitters are essential for that signature New Orleans flavor.
• Swap rye whiskey for cognac if you want the original 19th-century French Quarter version.
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The hosts introduce the episode’s theme—strategy—framing it as the bridge between ambition and achievement across personal, professional, and organizational contexts. Nawtej outlines four overarching schools of strategy based on Strategy Safari: Planning (structured, deliberate), Visionary (entrepreneurial, ambition-driven), Learning (adaptive, data-informed), and Cultural (value-based). Bruce and Angie share personal reflections on how strategy has shown up in their careers, with Bruce leaning into planning and metrics, and Angie realizing her shift from corporate planning to an entrepreneurial style rooted in intuition and collaboration.
In this opening segment of Serving Up Success with a Splash, the hosts introduce their focus on the concept of strategy schools, framing strategy as the bridge between ambition and reality. Nawtej outlines four grouped strategy approaches—planning, entrepreneurial (visionary), learning, and cultural—based on the book Strategy Safari. Bruce shares how he incorporates tools like SWOT and SMART goals, but adapts depending on external unpredictability, while Angie reflects on moving from a planning-based corporate role to a more entrepreneurial, intuitive path. They emphasize that the right strategy depends on both external conditions and personal alignment, encouraging listeners to choose approaches that suit their temperament—not just their talents.
Nawtej invites Bruce and Angie to guess which strategic "school" he belongs to, prompting thoughtful praise of his perceptiveness, adaptability, and transformative mindset. The discussion evolves into a recognition that people often embody multiple strategy types and should work in ways that align with their values and personality. Nawtej emphasizes that while different approaches suit different contexts, kindness and constructive disagreement are core to the podcast’s model. The segment concludes with a sharp critique of relying on rigid planning in chaotic environments—particularly given the disruptive force of AI—and praises adaptability and reinvention as keys to modern strategic success.
Nawtej proposes hosting a future panel to explore strategy, AI, and leadership across industries, sparking enthusiastic agreement from Bruce and Angie. They then explore how different careers may align with strategy schools like Planning, but quickly realize that no job exists in a vacuum—engineers, analysts, and even creatives must now blend adaptive, learning-oriented mindsets, especially in the age of AI. The segment closes with reflections on key takeaways: Bruce realizes he shifts across strategy types out of necessity, Angie gains confidence in her strategic instincts, and Nawtej acknowledges that traditional strategy models need updating in light of evolving technology.
00:00:47.830 --> 00:00:53.940 nawtej dosanjh: Welcome to serving up success with a splash. How is everyone, Angie? How are you.
00:00:53.940 --> 00:00:55.789 Angie Snowball: I'm good. How are you?
00:00:55.790 --> 00:00:57.520 nawtej dosanjh: Bruce, how's it going.
00:00:57.750 --> 00:00:58.560 Bruce Cramer: Awesome.
00:00:59.370 --> 00:01:09.120 nawtej dosanjh: I'm so thrilled to have my co-hosts Angie snowballed the Renaissance woman, Bruce Kramer, the corporate cockroach, and.
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:11.949 Angie Snowball: It's so cool when Natash says it, doesn't it? The rainy.
00:01:11.950 --> 00:01:13.640 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah, it does.
00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:15.480 Bruce Cramer: Bloody.
00:01:15.922 --> 00:01:22.170 nawtej dosanjh: Listen. Do not try an English accent. No, you haven't rehearsed. Okay?
00:01:25.710 --> 00:01:46.769 nawtej dosanjh: And, as usual, as usual, everybody and I'm not Nortej Desange. Dr. Nortej desange your strategy, doctor, and, as usual, everybody, we're going to dive into a big topic today. It's we're calling it the strategy schools or the 10 strategy schools. But really it should be more appropriately called
00:01:46.900 --> 00:02:02.610 nawtej dosanjh: ambition. More about that later. We're going to talk about. If you're a planner, you're a visionary, you're a learner. You're a cultural shape, shifter. You're a cultural shaper. There's a path for you.
00:02:02.850 --> 00:02:23.880 nawtej dosanjh: and we're going to delve into this in great detail. This is a big lift, and it's unrehearsed as usual. We could do this in hundreds of hours, and we're going to attempt to do this in 1 h. And so of course we start with a drink. Angie, what have you got on offer this week?
00:02:24.290 --> 00:02:34.570 Angie Snowball: So this guy is not easy. It's a Sazerac. It is the drink of New Orleans, and what you do 1st is you take an old fashioned glass
00:02:34.570 --> 00:02:58.599 Angie Snowball: and chill it, and rinse it with absinthe, or something called Arab Saint Arab saint. I don't even know what that was. I used absinthe. Then you take a cube of sugar and you put it in here, and you get out your little muddler, Guy, and you muddle him away. I already made this because it was so hard. Then you pour in the whiskey, so you want one and a half of these one and a half ounces of whiskey, then you stir
00:02:58.600 --> 00:03:10.629 Angie Snowball: in the ice, then you strain it, then you dump it in the other glass, then you put in a lemon dress, then you mix it up, and
00:03:11.070 --> 00:03:12.599 Angie Snowball: this better be good.
00:03:14.050 --> 00:03:16.060 nawtej dosanjh: It is good. I've already tasted it.
00:03:16.060 --> 00:03:18.890 Angie Snowball: Oh, yeah, okay. Here we go. Cheers.
00:03:19.190 --> 00:03:20.530 Bruce Cramer: Cheers.
00:03:21.370 --> 00:03:31.040 nawtej dosanjh: So I'm not in my usual place. Everybody. I'm in a slightly different place. So if you, if the background looks different, it is because the background is different.
00:03:31.991 --> 00:03:38.849 nawtej dosanjh: But, Angie, thank you for the drink. Let's move right along. So let's talk about ambition for a second.
00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:42.639 nawtej dosanjh: What is it that you want to achieve? What is it that you desire?
00:03:42.850 --> 00:03:48.470 nawtej dosanjh: What's where do you want to be in your professional life, your personal life.
00:03:48.770 --> 00:04:04.829 nawtej dosanjh: your corporate life, your your, what's your ambition for your family? What's your ambition for your friends? What's your ambition for? Where do you want to live? Okay. So ambition is where I want you to fix your mind for a moment. Strategy
00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:12.170 nawtej dosanjh: is the plan you adopt or create, to turn your ambition into reality.
00:04:12.590 --> 00:04:20.339 nawtej dosanjh: Strategy connects where you are now to where you want to go by making smart decisions.
00:04:20.589 --> 00:04:21.709 nawtej dosanjh: So
00:04:22.260 --> 00:04:31.409 nawtej dosanjh: what about strategy? So this is why we're discussing discussing strategy. But there are a lot of different ways to talk about strategy. There are
00:04:31.590 --> 00:04:42.049 nawtej dosanjh: 10 points of view. I didn't make that number up. We didn't make that number up. There are 10 points of view, and we call them schools. But they're essentially points of view.
00:04:42.320 --> 00:04:58.889 nawtej dosanjh: You've heard the analogy before about an elephant or 10 blind people. A number of blind people trying to figure out what an elephant is, and you know the the 1st one grabs its trunk, another one grabs its ear.
00:04:59.010 --> 00:05:09.380 nawtej dosanjh: The 10 schools of strategy. And it's a good way to think about these schools of strategy that they offer different points of view about an elephant.
00:05:09.630 --> 00:05:12.390 nawtej dosanjh: So 10 points of view
00:05:12.550 --> 00:05:28.559 nawtej dosanjh: about how we do strategy or 10 approaches. How we do strategy. I'm going to delve into these in a moment. We're going to start by delving into. We're going to group them a little bit in this 1st segment. Then we're going to make them practicable. We're gonna we're gonna
00:05:29.080 --> 00:05:38.710 nawtej dosanjh: you choose some examples about how you might use them. But 1st I want to come to Bruce and Andy. Angie Bruce, let's start with you this week.
00:05:38.880 --> 00:05:46.050 nawtej dosanjh: Where and how have you used strategy? What strategies have you adopted in in the past?
00:05:49.460 --> 00:05:50.355 Bruce Cramer: Well,
00:05:51.740 --> 00:05:58.939 Bruce Cramer: So a multitude of strategies. I've used it in my professional career in terms of myself.
00:05:59.140 --> 00:06:11.530 Bruce Cramer: Where did I want to go? Where did I see myself in 5 years? 10 years, and then, of course, in business, around initiatives and things that we were tackling.
00:06:11.750 --> 00:06:38.859 Bruce Cramer: And you know it's interesting, because I'm kind of anxious to hear these 10 schools in greater detail, because when I think of how I've done it, you know, just to your point. And this actually ties back to our 1st episode, where we talked about awareness, action, and accountability. That big step 1st big step, is, where do you want to go. So you have this ambition
00:06:38.900 --> 00:06:45.850 Bruce Cramer: clearly defined where you are, and where do you want to go? And what's that gap?
00:06:45.970 --> 00:07:09.820 Bruce Cramer: So that's actually the 1st thing I always think through, and when I'm coaching clients I have 2 fairly young entrepreneurs right now that I'm working with, and we're kind of going through these steps. The second thing is, you kind of do a real life assessment. You got to do some analysis as to where you're at in terms of what might be if it's a professional
00:07:09.820 --> 00:07:32.669 Bruce Cramer: career development, what are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? What do I see as the opportunities? And if you're talking about this as a business. It's the old Swot analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and of course threats. The other thing, then you start to say, is, Well, what are some things.
00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:35.659 Angie Snowball: Hey? Wait! Time out! Do they still use swat! Is that still a thing.
00:07:35.900 --> 00:07:36.140 Bruce Cramer: Yeah.
00:07:36.140 --> 00:07:37.090 Angie Snowball: Did he retire, then.
00:07:37.090 --> 00:07:37.580 Bruce Cramer: Yes.
00:07:37.580 --> 00:07:38.980 nawtej dosanjh: It is still a thing, Andrew.
00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:39.370 Angie Snowball: Thanks.
00:07:39.370 --> 00:07:40.199 Bruce Cramer: Yes, it is.
00:07:40.200 --> 00:07:42.549 nawtej dosanjh: But good interruption. Angie, I like it. Yes.
00:07:43.870 --> 00:07:49.990 Angie Snowball: I would forget. If I didn't ask now I'd forget, and then I'd be sad. It'd be like, did they retire that guy? He's still there. Okay, that's cool.
00:07:53.920 --> 00:08:16.149 Bruce Cramer: And then you start thinking about you know, what's the path am I taking? Is it to? Am I going to grow through innovation? Is it about? If it's my business? Am I growing through partnerships? And you know what's going to be my differentiator? What's going to make me unique? If it's just in my personal career development. What's going to set me apart from everyone else?
00:08:16.150 --> 00:08:34.710 Bruce Cramer: And then I have to think about. Well, what are those things that I identified earlier, that are my weaknesses or capabilities or skills that I'm going to need. If I'm really going to move from where I am to where I ultimately I want to be. And then I would say, the last thing is, you start putting
00:08:34.710 --> 00:08:55.860 Bruce Cramer: you start putting, you know, actions, pen to paper. What are the things I'm going to do? And we we also bring up another tool in the. It's called smart goals. So you start establishing some objectives that things you need to accomplish to get from point A to Point B, and you want those to be smart, measurable.
00:08:56.070 --> 00:09:13.639 Bruce Cramer: attainable, relevant, and timely. So you use the smart goal framework. And then the last thing I always do is I tell everyone, and then myself personally, as a coach, you know, is that you got to monitor.
00:09:13.730 --> 00:09:33.060 Bruce Cramer: you got to keep track. How am I doing? You have to have some established key performance indicators that you track objectively. So you don't bullshit yourself that things are better than they really are, but also to celebrate when you achieve these milestones. So it's important to monitor
00:09:33.150 --> 00:09:46.620 Bruce Cramer: and learn, no matter what you set out to do. It's going to change along the way, and that comes from learning and adapting. So that's did I answer your damn question.
00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:48.950 nawtej dosanjh: I forget what they're question is, too.
00:09:48.950 --> 00:10:09.339 nawtej dosanjh: I'm gonna come to you in a minute. But what's clear here? What's really clear here, Bruce, is that you've got long experience, professional experience in doing strategy in thinking about what your ambition is, we can call it different words. We can say objectives. Where do you want to be? But I like the word ambition.
00:10:09.460 --> 00:10:31.880 nawtej dosanjh: what your ambitions are, and how you're going to get there. And so you've done a lot of strategy. So this is going to be. It's going to be a really interesting session for us, and I'm going to repeat, we have not rehearsed this at all. So. But, Angie, coming to you to so talk about how have you done? Strategy? What have you done to meet your ambitions over your success?
00:10:31.880 --> 00:10:32.290 Angie Snowball: Well.
00:10:32.290 --> 00:10:33.369 nawtej dosanjh: Accessible career.
00:10:33.950 --> 00:10:54.170 Angie Snowball: Yeah, I mean, yeah, different times, different ways. I think what's interesting is, if you'd asked me this before last week when I took a look at. You know the strategy, safari and all that stuff, I would say, I don't do strategy, I wing it. I don't do things well, that's why, I have coaches, and they say, Oh, my God, Angie, sit down! You have to do this, and you have to do this.
00:10:54.170 --> 00:11:08.329 Angie Snowball: But when I was looking at this, I realized one. I did come from a planning school, so I was in the corporate world, too, and I did. Boatloads of excel spreadsheets and strategies and volume projections and all that kind of stuff.
00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:14.980 Angie Snowball: And what I realized was just because you're good at something doesn't mean it's what you want to do.
00:11:15.050 --> 00:11:43.449 Angie Snowball: I think I stayed there way too long in that planning strategy of numbers and spreadsheets because I was good at it. I was getting paid very well for it. And so I thought, Hey, isn't that what we're supposed to do? But through time I just found myself a little bit more and realized. No, I hate this doesn't matter how good I am at it. I hate every day I come to work. Sorry, Kim, and other old bosses, but that sucks.
00:11:43.764 --> 00:11:45.019 nawtej dosanjh: She's not that sorry.
00:11:45.020 --> 00:12:02.099 Angie Snowball: Sorry. That was a terrible job, but now and I say I'm a wing it. But that is a strategy. That entrepreneurial type school is a strategy in itself. It's just finding the right people like, Bruce said, to help you
00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:21.309 Angie Snowball: put the pieces together. So you have this strategy. But you need other people to bridge the gap of. Okay, this is where I want to be. This is the school that I use. I need a little more of those schools I'm not using. So who has that? That can help me put the whole school together so I can have a university of strategy and be successful.
00:12:21.310 --> 00:12:42.940 nawtej dosanjh: Angie, it's clear you've been. You've done strategy. I know you said you're winging it, but it's clear to me you've done strategy. So, guys before we go off to break. What I want to do is I want to talk about the 10 schools. But I don't want to talk about the 10 schools and name them like a lecture. And one by one I'm going to group them into 4 schools.
00:12:43.140 --> 00:12:47.980 nawtej dosanjh: These 10 schools fit neatly into 4 different types of schools.
00:12:48.150 --> 00:13:05.059 nawtej dosanjh: Angie and Bruce have talked about one of them at least or 2 of them. They talked about the planning school. The planning school is where you you plan meticulously, and we're going to talk about when it when this is a good school or this is a good approach to meet your ambitions. So there's the planning school.
00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:14.639 nawtej dosanjh: There is the vision school or the entrepreneurial school where you establish your ambition, your vision.
00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:18.759 nawtej dosanjh: and you march towards it, and and nothing gets in the way.
00:13:18.950 --> 00:13:27.839 nawtej dosanjh: And that's a different way to do strategy. It's not the same as the planning school. It's different to the planning school. We are not saying, by the way.
00:13:28.180 --> 00:13:40.480 nawtej dosanjh: that one is better than the other we're going to. We're going to talk about when they're appropriate. In the second segment after the break. But for now we've got these 2 schools planning and vision school.
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.840 nawtej dosanjh: And then there's a 3rd school which Bruce alluded to about learning.
00:13:47.170 --> 00:13:53.200 nawtej dosanjh: I don't know that he called it the learning school, but monitoring learning, and then adapting.
00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:59.540 nawtej dosanjh: you know. Remember he he! But Bruce, in his own way, in his own inevitable way, talked about. No. Bs.
00:13:59.650 --> 00:14:12.960 nawtej dosanjh: absolutely no. Bs, this is the you learn properly. You don't. You don't work your way through it inappropriately or without data, you learn. So there's the there's that. That's the adaptive and learning school, or the learning school.
00:14:13.400 --> 00:14:23.249 nawtej dosanjh: And then all the other schools fit into what we would call the cultural school. You start, your ambition starts with your values.
00:14:24.250 --> 00:14:35.490 nawtej dosanjh: What are your values? And then you do strategy based on your values? All these can be found in the book strategy safari, which is what we're basing on
00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:47.599 nawtej dosanjh: this talk on. It's by 3 authors, one of those authors, Joseph Lampel. He's a such a good friend of mine. I've known him a long time a long time. I've learned so much from him.
00:14:47.980 --> 00:15:07.119 nawtej dosanjh: and I'm grateful for the book and and all all his wisdom. So let us leave this segment before we go to break. We've got 4 schools, and we're going to go into them in much more detail. In the next piece, the planning school, the Vision school, or the or the entrepreneurial school, the learning school, and then the cultural school.
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:12.060 nawtej dosanjh: Stay tuned. We'll be back to talk about these in much greater detail.
00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:14.720 nawtej dosanjh: Take us away for the break, Jesse.
00:17:01.450 --> 00:17:24.840 nawtej dosanjh: Welcome back, guys, welcome back. So we're talking about ambition. It's called the strategy schools. But we're talking about ambition. We in the 1st segment. We outlined Angie and Bruce outlined some schools, we grouped them, we grouped them into 4 schools, the the planning school, the visionary school, the entrepreneurial school, the learning school and then the values or the cultural school.
00:17:25.050 --> 00:17:44.240 nawtej dosanjh: So which school to use. Well, it depends a lot on your personality depends on your environment. It depends on your your personal likes and your dislikes. It depends on the experience of your team. But there are some rules. Okay, so we're going to talk about these rules. Now.
00:17:44.260 --> 00:18:02.809 nawtej dosanjh: one of these is to think about what the external world wants. Bruce, in every single episode that we've talked about often is talking about what the world needs. What is your unique proposition that matches what the world wants?
00:18:02.930 --> 00:18:16.660 nawtej dosanjh: He doesn't always use those words. But that's that's where where Bruce is. Bruce is always thinking about what the market wants, what the world needs. And so the we call that the external world, or we can call that the external world.
00:18:16.970 --> 00:18:17.830 nawtej dosanjh: And
00:18:18.250 --> 00:18:39.229 nawtej dosanjh: it depends, therefore, what the external world, how we characterize the external world. So we're going to just use this one variable. And then I'm going to come back to the guys in a moment. So warning, guys, I'm coming up with a question in about 30 seconds. So if the if the external world we're going to use the word, the variable predictability.
00:18:40.100 --> 00:18:45.790 nawtej dosanjh: So if the external world is predictable or unpredictable.
00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:51.919 nawtej dosanjh: what would you do? What strategy school would you employ? So
00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:58.790 nawtej dosanjh: it's a continuum we're going to use the continuum. So, Angie, why don't we start with you?
00:18:58.970 --> 00:19:01.570 nawtej dosanjh: Which strategy school would you use
00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:09.349 nawtej dosanjh: if the external world is predictable, there are no wars, there is no economic turbulence. Inflation is low.
00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:19.200 nawtej dosanjh: trade is trade is flowing in all directions. What strategy school would you use.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:21.410 Angie Snowball: I think the planning school.
00:19:22.120 --> 00:19:22.790 nawtej dosanjh: Today.
00:19:22.790 --> 00:19:50.350 Angie Snowball: You've got. You have all the factors there. Nothing's going to change on you, or at least not much, because it's predictable. So I think you're going to use a planning school? Or was that other one the positioning school where you're basically you're analyzing. I would say, when you're strategizing, you're using plans to collect your data, to analyze your data and predict things because it is predictable. And you're able to
00:19:50.490 --> 00:19:53.100 Angie Snowball: do things when it's stable. Am I correct.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:58.469 Angie Snowball: Fail. This is a pass. Fail, please make it a pass. Fail because I don't.
00:19:58.790 --> 00:19:59.990 Angie Snowball: Agencies.
00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:00.716 Bruce Cramer: So like.
00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:17.410 nawtej dosanjh: Listen. I gotta say I gotta say the the only, the only thing out that would have made that sound so fantastic is, and I would bring the Swat school, the Swat retirement, and use the Swat analysis. I would I would have loved it if you'd said I brought the Swat school.
00:20:17.410 --> 00:20:18.777 Bruce Cramer: Bring it, swap back.
00:20:19.120 --> 00:20:23.653 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah, absolutely right. You would if you know what the world
00:20:25.020 --> 00:20:42.249 nawtej dosanjh: How the world is configured. Yeah, you'd sit down and plan you'd design, and and you'd use. You'd use swat you, you would use smart, you would use excel. You would use all these tools because everything is entirely predictable.
00:20:42.930 --> 00:20:58.599 nawtej dosanjh: Bruce. Tough question for you, because you've you've you got strategy down to a T in your corporate career. So tough question for you. Where would the strategy school, do you think? Where would the planning school? Why would the planning school
00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:06.029 nawtej dosanjh: be inappropriate in an unpredictable environment? What do you think.
00:21:06.310 --> 00:21:10.070 Bruce Cramer: There's just too many variables that are unknowing.
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:25.120 Bruce Cramer: There's not enough stability to do the level of analysis or to validate the analysis you typically do in a more stable marketplace. So to me you could be wasting a lot of time
00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:28.230 Bruce Cramer: because there's just too many unknowns.
00:21:28.760 --> 00:21:31.039 Angie Snowball: I think that was Covid right like.
00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:33.079 Bruce Cramer: Is that a good answer?
00:21:33.080 --> 00:21:42.829 Angie Snowball: Yeah, like, they've been living in this predictable environment. And they had all these processes, and everybody knew their charts. And then Covid was like nobody knows anything anymore. So just hang tight.
00:21:42.830 --> 00:21:45.849 Bruce Cramer: And and you know I got a question for you.
00:21:46.050 --> 00:21:46.510 nawtej dosanjh: Sure.
00:21:46.510 --> 00:21:49.090 Bruce Cramer: The doctor, the Doc.
00:21:49.330 --> 00:22:04.670 Bruce Cramer: you know, as we're having this discussion. Isn't it possible, though, you know, because I find myself because where I thrive is where it's unpredictable, or at least that's what I think. The jury's.
00:22:06.310 --> 00:22:09.420 nawtej dosanjh: Coming to that. I'm coming to that about both of you. I'm coming to.
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:11.420 Bruce Cramer: But but
00:22:11.650 --> 00:22:23.579 Bruce Cramer: what I like to do is typically, I start in that learning adapt mode. And then I kind of make the bold statement around the environmental. But then I go back to planning
00:22:23.740 --> 00:22:34.669 Bruce Cramer: once I kind of go through. So is it? I mean, I find, like I skate across those 4 schools to some degree. But what I lead with
00:22:35.070 --> 00:22:43.040 Bruce Cramer: is absolutely based on the predictability or unpredictability of whatever it is I'm trying to do is that.
00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:49.050 nawtej dosanjh: You know there is. The key is to do what you've just described. The key is
00:22:49.210 --> 00:22:54.190 nawtej dosanjh: to combine what fits best, and your personality, in my view
00:22:54.360 --> 00:22:59.920 nawtej dosanjh: that your personality or your predisposition is an important factor in this
00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:02.780 Bruce Cramer: So I'm not just psychotic.
00:23:02.780 --> 00:23:04.759 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah, you know, doesn't say that
00:23:04.760 --> 00:23:10.346 nawtej dosanjh: you've never. We have never said that. You say it all the time. I think you need to stop.
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.956 Bruce Cramer: Oh, but the non verbal.
00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:30.180 nawtej dosanjh: Totally, and I and I I think you know, knowing you the the way I do. I think the way you do that you work. Is that? You skate as you? You're using your words. You skate across the 4 schools.
00:23:30.855 --> 00:23:55.679 nawtej dosanjh: I think I think you've got a bent, though. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think you've got a bent for the entrepreneurial school, and I think Angie has also she calls it winging it. Okay, but I think she's got a bent for the entrepreneurial school school, Angie, I'd love to hear your thoughts. And then Bruce's on this. Am I right? Do you think you've got the bent for the entrepreneurial school.
00:23:56.290 --> 00:24:19.890 Angie Snowball: Yeah, I think I definitely do. And one reason I say that is because I'm happy doing that. I don't second guess myself. I feel very comfortable doing what I'm doing. I feel very confident, maybe not that I'm right about it, but I don't care what other people think about it, because I'm happy with what I'm choosing that strategy to be, and I'm confident in what I'm doing. And, like, Bruce said, if it
00:24:19.890 --> 00:24:34.700 Angie Snowball: fails, fail, forward, go back to the learning school and then go to the adjusting school and come back again before you go to planning school. But yeah, I think that's definitely it, whereas before, when I was all strictly in planning mode, I was missing.
00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:35.470 nawtej dosanjh: Them off.
00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:39.619 Angie Snowball: So, yeah, I think entrepreneur is a good place for me, because I'm happy here.
00:24:39.850 --> 00:24:51.139 nawtej dosanjh: Personal personality matters, Bruce, before I come to you. So you on on the disc profile. I'm just combining what we talked about last week. You are definitely not a C right?
00:24:51.350 --> 00:24:54.159 nawtej dosanjh: No Uc was close to 0.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:54.800 Angie Snowball: Yes.
00:24:55.020 --> 00:25:04.389 nawtej dosanjh: Okay, so you are. You would not be happy in the planning school. So do do not go and do a job which requires you to sit down and do swat.
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:11.230 nawtej dosanjh: Excel 5 forces. All of those models do not do those things.
00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:19.474 Angie Snowball: No, I learned that the hard way that's the other thing. When I read these I was like, man. Something really important to me about this conversation is
00:25:19.760 --> 00:25:31.650 Angie Snowball: yes, look for the ones that you are. Look for the ones that you want to be, but don't look for the ones you're good at, because that may not be. What's going to make you happy? You can. I can be very good at it.
00:25:31.930 --> 00:25:50.459 Angie Snowball: I just don't like it, and so you can get very. You can trick yourself, I think, and start settling for the wrong stuff, you know. Like you said, Don't do that job. This is where you are. Know who you are. You're going to be miserable. But for 15 years I was miserable because I didn't know that. You know I was good at it.
00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:51.310 nawtej dosanjh: You could do.
00:25:51.310 --> 00:25:52.139 Angie Snowball: You're supposed to do.
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:59.964 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah, but great, great point. And Bruce. So I said, just a few minutes ago, I think you you have this
00:26:00.650 --> 00:26:29.790 nawtej dosanjh: you know desire to be, not desire. Desire is the wrong word. I think you. You crave unpredictability, you crave innovation on entrepreneurship. You know, in all our conversations. You have ideation, you have massive ideation. You come up with a lot of ideas at the same time. Would I be right in thinking you're at the entrepreneurial school, or am I only half right?
00:26:29.900 --> 00:26:39.940 Bruce Cramer: No, you you hit the nail on the head, and Angie just made my life crystal clear with one of your comments.
00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:42.909 Bruce Cramer: The reason why I skate across
00:26:43.180 --> 00:26:51.139 Bruce Cramer: these different schools is that if I was ever held captive in one I would bow out.
00:26:51.690 --> 00:27:08.189 Bruce Cramer: I would become, you know. But you're right. That's why I have to lead with the unpredictable type stuff. And I can honestly say in my career the bulk of my career has been in problem solving, you know, Mr. Fix it.
00:27:08.566 --> 00:27:24.379 Bruce Cramer: You know I've had many tags that were around once. We can't figure it out, or we don't really understand. Those were the assignments that I would receive, and I would absolutely thrive. But I've had to learn to do the planning.
00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:41.610 Bruce Cramer: because, even though I'm playing with unpredictable in an unpredictable environment. It's still important to lay out clearly, especially when you're working across. In some cases I was working across more than a couple 100 people. It's important. There's some structure.
00:27:42.090 --> 00:27:43.190 Bruce Cramer: And so.
00:27:43.190 --> 00:27:45.660 Angie Snowball: Do we get to guess what you are? Natesh.
00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:50.480 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah, yeah, you get to guess you get to guess what I am. But after the break.
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:51.030 Bruce Cramer: Yes.
00:27:51.030 --> 00:27:51.640 Angie Snowball: Okay.
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:54.070 nawtej dosanjh: Take it away, Jesse. We'll be right back.
00:29:31.770 --> 00:29:51.569 nawtej dosanjh: Hey, guys? Well, welcome back. So we're still on unpredictable, unpredictable environments. So, Angie, you wanted to guess what I am, so I could easily, conveniently. Just pretend that I didn't hear that. But yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. What do you think? And, Bruce? You can. You can guess, too.
00:29:54.170 --> 00:30:13.899 Angie Snowball: Sorry I forgot to unmute myself. No, I kind of don't want to guess, because I'm afraid I'll be wrong, and I'll fail. But I see 2 things in you. I see one. You're one of the most perceptive people I've ever known, like on so many levels. So part of me sees you in that cognitive school because you're so perceptive. And you're
00:30:13.900 --> 00:30:31.639 Angie Snowball: you're a good decision maker. But you challenge assumptions and you get in there. And you do that stuff. So I see that part of you. But I also like the what was the configuration, the transformative one? Because I feel like that crosses everything like the the reinventing. When you know on both
00:30:31.710 --> 00:30:38.219 Angie Snowball: whether you can go from stable to unstable and still figure it out. So those will be my 2 guesses. Bruce. What do you guess.
00:30:39.515 --> 00:30:48.144 Bruce Cramer: God! I think you nailed it, and and I'll be honest as we've had this discussion, and, like you having had the notes
00:30:48.810 --> 00:31:01.740 Bruce Cramer: you know. I I would also say, though adapt and learn is a big part of who you are. So I think what makes you so special. And you really are is that while you're.
00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:02.250 nawtej dosanjh: Fine.
00:31:02.450 --> 00:31:13.099 Bruce Cramer: While you're grounded, and everything that Angie said, that you learn things to the umpteenth degree, and you have a high capacity to digest
00:31:13.310 --> 00:31:17.949 Bruce Cramer: information different, which is what makes you so perceptive.
00:31:18.100 --> 00:31:26.310 Bruce Cramer: But I also see you take all of that. And then you do look out there and say, Okay.
00:31:26.500 --> 00:31:32.110 Bruce Cramer: what am I learning from this? How could I adapt to be even more effective? So
00:31:32.600 --> 00:31:33.980 Bruce Cramer: that's my 2 cents.
00:31:33.980 --> 00:31:42.485 Angie Snowball: He's 1 of those guys that probably uses like his whole brain. Or like, you know, this little part. He's like using the whole thing. We're all like, man that's crazy.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:43.790 Angie Snowball: My!
00:31:43.790 --> 00:31:50.690 nawtej dosanjh: Gotta say, I gotta say, I just love you guys. I don't care what you would have said. I love you. I totally love you guys.
00:31:50.850 --> 00:31:57.510 nawtej dosanjh: I think, what's I think what's important in this exercise that we're doing, as far as I'm concerned, is that
00:31:59.520 --> 00:32:06.299 nawtej dosanjh: it doesn't matter really which school you use right? It doesn't matter which approach you use.
00:32:06.630 --> 00:32:10.389 nawtej dosanjh: Let's understand, though, that there are. There are approaches.
00:32:11.930 --> 00:32:15.319 nawtej dosanjh: and there are different approaches for different circumstances
00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:26.100 nawtej dosanjh: and personality matters. So go and find something you enjoy doing. So you can. You can do the things you like doing in the way you like doing it.
00:32:26.290 --> 00:32:35.299 nawtej dosanjh: I've got to say I don't mind. I don't mind planning after I've done some, you know.
00:32:35.860 --> 00:32:43.149 nawtej dosanjh: thinking about my values, about my, you know vision about my ambition where I want to get to.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:50.630 nawtej dosanjh: But I but I I that's not what I want to do. 24, 7, you know, but historically.
00:32:50.630 --> 00:32:51.200 Angie Snowball: Nobody.
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:51.570 nawtej dosanjh: The first.st
00:32:51.570 --> 00:32:53.879 Angie Snowball: We know you want to drink in there, too.
00:32:53.880 --> 00:33:17.479 nawtej dosanjh: I want to have a drink that you're making, and you're good. At that I would say. I would say that the 3 of us are quite similar. I'm going to move on to another question for you, for you guys. In a moment I think that there is a similar. I talked about you 2 being in the entrepreneurial school. But I also do think that
00:33:18.126 --> 00:33:20.610 nawtej dosanjh: you are partly in the
00:33:20.850 --> 00:33:25.199 nawtej dosanjh: Bruce used the term skating across all of them. I'm going to use a different word.
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:29.240 nawtej dosanjh: Both of you can do invention.
00:33:31.890 --> 00:33:36.330 nawtej dosanjh: Both of you can do invention. This podcast is an invention.
00:33:37.370 --> 00:33:40.520 Angie Snowball: Yes, it came right out of Bruce's head. It's amazing.
00:33:42.350 --> 00:33:47.659 nawtej dosanjh: It it, but it did. I mean it really did. It came out of Bruce's head. It totally came out of Bruce's head.
00:33:48.170 --> 00:33:54.630 nawtej dosanjh: Angie and I winged it. We thought, Oh, yeah, okay, that sounds sounds okay. We don't know.
00:33:54.630 --> 00:33:59.039 Angie Snowball: Yeah, he basically said, Do you like to drink? I was like, Yes, I do. He goes good. You're on the podcast?
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:10.890 nawtej dosanjh: So I think I think you. I think I think both of you have got this this desire. I want to call it desire and ability to reinvent.
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:14.730 nawtej dosanjh: So you're you're you're not doing. You're not doing deep
00:34:14.949 --> 00:34:31.690 nawtej dosanjh: analysis. But you've got this intuitive sense about what the world needs, what innovations the world wants, and then you reinvent towards it. It's a real pleasure to see and observe the way you 2 work. It's.
00:34:31.690 --> 00:34:35.520 Angie Snowball: Gosh! My head's getting so big it's not gonna fit out the door.
00:34:35.520 --> 00:34:41.400 nawtej dosanjh: Move on. Okay, I'm going to move on now. So let's Bruce. You had it. You I saw your finger do this, so you had a.
00:34:41.400 --> 00:35:03.000 Bruce Cramer: We've got like 1 min. I do have a comment to make, you know. Angie says she's she wings it, but I want to come back to that because she never wings anything. But she's the true. There are people, I mean. She knows how to learn, so we'll come back to that I want to explain that because I see a.
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.900 Angie Snowball: Oh, I can't wait. This is my favorite.
00:35:04.900 --> 00:35:05.660 Angie Snowball: Your podcast.
00:35:05.660 --> 00:35:07.789 Angie Snowball: Everybody says such nice things.
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:14.230 nawtej dosanjh: Okay, Bruce, I'm gonna I'm gonna move on. We don't have 1 min. We have. We have. We have in this segment. We have about 7 or 8 min, so
00:35:15.770 --> 00:35:17.190 nawtej dosanjh: let let me.
00:35:17.190 --> 00:35:17.580 Bruce Cramer: Let go.
00:35:17.580 --> 00:35:18.839 nawtej dosanjh: Head. Go ahead, and then I have a question.
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:33.759 Bruce Cramer: Yeah, well, so and Angie, there's people that absorb information, and they memorize information and things they hear along the way. And then there's people like you that apply.
00:35:33.990 --> 00:35:36.270 Bruce Cramer: it becomes part of their muscle.
00:35:36.670 --> 00:35:48.260 Bruce Cramer: It's not just academically there in their mind, because I see all 4 schools. When I 1st contacted you. You walked me through a strategy.
00:35:48.260 --> 00:35:48.830 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah.
00:35:49.030 --> 00:36:08.559 Bruce Cramer: As to how you were going to take me. But what I like about this is, you do have Dr. Natez that does that as well, but he also has that really strong understanding and academic mind frame at all times. You just naturally absorb and then start behaving
00:36:08.750 --> 00:36:13.029 Bruce Cramer: accordingly. So it's not winging it. You're actually banking everything.
00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:15.730 nawtej dosanjh: No, no, you you! It's great intuition. It's it's.
00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:18.930 Angie Snowball: Fantastic, so I don't have to try is good news.
00:36:19.160 --> 00:36:22.530 nawtej dosanjh: No, you don't have to try right that
00:36:22.530 --> 00:36:46.879 nawtej dosanjh: you are trying. But I think one of the things before I move on to the next question is that I want to say to you know our listeners, is that what we try and do on these sessions is to model the type of interaction, and the type of dialogue and the type of narrative and the type of questions we try and model how we think
00:36:47.330 --> 00:37:01.229 nawtej dosanjh: we'd love everybody everybody else to be. So we put some information out there. We put some frameworks out there and then we sometimes we're flattering about each other, but we disagree with each other, and we do it.
00:37:01.300 --> 00:37:29.949 nawtej dosanjh: do it in a, in a, in a productive, thoughtful, kind way. And I think if there's 1 word that could describe what we do here. It's kindness, and I and I know, Bruce. This was a great philosophy of vision for you. When you started this, you started with this vision. I want to see kindness. I want to see disagreement, and I want to see kindness. So I just thought this was a good place to to to mention that.
00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:54.120 nawtej dosanjh: But before you respond, I want to get a question in, because we've only got about 5 min in this segment left. So the question is, I want to go back to these unpredictable environments because we focused a lot on the predictable environments and the the less predictable. But what about the really chaotic. What about the really chaotic
00:37:55.715 --> 00:37:57.770 nawtej dosanjh: environment? So, Bruce.
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:04.170 nawtej dosanjh: for no other reason that I can see you before I can see Angie on my right on on the phone.
00:38:04.170 --> 00:38:06.160 nawtej dosanjh: Lucky me so.
00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:08.641 Angie Snowball: It's not really good, Bruce. Maybe we'll get to me.
00:38:08.890 --> 00:38:17.920 nawtej dosanjh: What are the examples in which precise examples? Not just sort of oh, the world is unknowable, the future is unknowable. What
00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:23.209 nawtej dosanjh: I don't know sectors, circumstances, types of business.
00:38:23.350 --> 00:38:33.600 nawtej dosanjh: Would the the unpredictable, the entrepreneurial school be most appropriate.
00:38:34.590 --> 00:38:39.209 Bruce Cramer: Okay. So I'm gonna take a shot at this and I'm going to keep it brief. I'm gonna try.
00:38:39.210 --> 00:38:39.910 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah.
00:38:40.650 --> 00:38:45.369 Bruce Cramer: I would say something. And and this ties back to the second episode.
00:38:46.670 --> 00:38:50.490 Bruce Cramer: I would say the impact of AI
00:38:51.390 --> 00:38:59.030 Bruce Cramer: has made just about every freaking sector a little unpredictable right now.
00:39:00.135 --> 00:39:11.469 Bruce Cramer: And that goes down to individual jobs. But I'm talking, you know, coming from a a huge and very successful distribution organization.
00:39:11.980 --> 00:39:29.096 Bruce Cramer: I mean, AI is wreaking havoc on everybody and causing everybody to be thinking, oh, shit! That future isn't so predictable anymore. And so that's that's the best way I can answer that.
00:39:29.690 --> 00:39:58.269 Bruce Cramer: you know, because I can think of different sectors. Education I could think of. Well, it's hard for me to think of some sector right now that isn't sitting in a conference room somewhere going. We got to get a handle on this AI, not only in its existing form. But, as you pointed out to us, Nataj, the futures, there's even more unknowns out there.
00:39:58.270 --> 00:39:58.750 Bruce Cramer: Trash
00:39:58.750 --> 00:40:19.899 Bruce Cramer: the impact. So to me, I've been really caught up in that, because, as I work with small medium sized businesses, while I see a lot of advantages right now with AI. And I do think it's all an upside. But you better figure that out because somebody will, and if you don't, you're going to get left behind.
00:40:20.330 --> 00:40:27.470 Angie Snowball: Yeah, I think that's that's really, that's where this like environmental or configuration. I don't know all the names of all your stuff, because
00:40:27.490 --> 00:40:35.839 Angie Snowball: Dr. Natez again is smarter, but that the ability to adapt and not be afraid of that change. Because, like you, said Bruce, there's.
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:59.699 Angie Snowball: I mean, I remember when people came to me 3, 4 years ago, and they were 1st using chat, gpt, and like, Oh, my, gosh! Aren't you worried? You're not gonna have a job. What are you going to do with your business? And I said, I don't know. Maybe I'll teach AI. I'll figure something out like. At that point. I was no longer afraid of it. I embraced it. I learned how to use it. It's the greatest tool that ever happened. I have 3 times more clients than I had then, because I have the ability to, because I embraced it.
00:40:59.720 --> 00:41:01.749 Angie Snowball: and I changed the way I did things.
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:11.649 Angie Snowball: So I think that's where a lot of companies are being left behind or making poor decisions because they're stuck in this traditional planning mode
00:41:11.690 --> 00:41:36.589 Angie Snowball: faced with very unpredictable futures. And there's just no one bridging that gap, and they just keep going straight towards the wall. You know I'm like eventually, if you don't turn, if you don't veer, if you don't change something, you're gonna hit the wall. And I think it's really hard for big companies, because it's, you know, trying to right a ship. You know it's easy when you're on a little boat right, Captain.
00:41:36.829 --> 00:41:45.219 Angie Snowball: But if you're in a big ship that's hard to turn around, you know, and steer it around. I think that's where a lot of companies are going to be hurting because they can't adjust.
00:41:46.350 --> 00:42:09.529 nawtej dosanjh: Guys. Seriously, I in these last 3 min that you 2 were just speaking. I promise you I have learned so much. You're absolutely right, Bruce, just talking about. Well, all environments are unpredictable right now. Of course they are bots are using. They're inventing their own language to talk to one another. We have to switch them off so they can't do that.
00:42:09.790 --> 00:42:23.710 nawtej dosanjh: What could be more unpredictable? And Angie talking about? Why are we still using the planning school. You 2 are strategy geeks. You 2 are imposters. You 2 are strategy geeks. You're pretending that you didn't know strategy. You're total strategy. Geeks.
00:42:24.215 --> 00:42:25.460 nawtej dosanjh: okay, absolutely absolutely.
00:42:25.460 --> 00:42:29.419 Angie Snowball: Here's to us, Bruce. Strategy geeks, who knew.
00:42:29.420 --> 00:42:30.225 Bruce Cramer: That.
00:42:31.030 --> 00:42:46.159 nawtej dosanjh: We are, gonna we're going to go to break now and but seriously, that was fantastic guys, absolutely. Just to sum that up before we go to break. We're using planning schools for an unpredictable or a planning approach for our ambitions
00:42:47.370 --> 00:42:49.790 nawtej dosanjh: in an unpredictable environment.
00:42:50.850 --> 00:42:53.460 nawtej dosanjh: Is that stupid? I think it's stupid.
00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:54.730 Angie Snowball: Think it's.
00:42:54.730 --> 00:43:07.510 nawtej dosanjh: When we come back. When we come back. When we come back we are going to change tack. We're going to talk about. Well, when are each of these schools appropriate for career decision making?
00:43:07.670 --> 00:43:11.790 nawtej dosanjh: How about that? We'll be right back, Jesse Cue the music.
00:45:00.520 --> 00:45:03.245 Bruce Cramer: All those drinks kick in eventually.
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:13.502 nawtej dosanjh: Welcome back, guys. So for a moment I'm going to turn to career. But one thing for the guys, Angie and Bruce.
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:25.459 nawtej dosanjh: So we've we've we've done. So far we've done. AI, we've done accountability, action, awareness, action. We've done a personality profiles. We've we've done
00:45:26.096 --> 00:45:40.249 nawtej dosanjh: strategy. Schools we've we've we've started. We've started linking, linking these these things together. Do we? Do? We want a session a panel. And and I'm sorry I'm surprising you totally unrehearsed.
00:45:40.560 --> 00:45:59.890 nawtej dosanjh: Do we want to at some future event? Do we want to host a panel? Do we want to get some people who are, who are deep thinkers about all this sort of stuff, all this combined stuff, not one thing or the other. Do we want to get a panel, and we want to quiz. The 3 of us want to quiz, quiz a panel. I would love to do that with you guys.
00:46:00.200 --> 00:46:06.410 nawtej dosanjh: My God, it can look just like the muppet screen we can get like 9 people on there. That'll be so fun.
00:46:07.340 --> 00:46:11.469 nawtej dosanjh: Well, I was thinking of something more serious than the muppets, Angie.
00:46:11.900 --> 00:46:14.160 nawtej dosanjh: Sure we can entertain that for a short while.
00:46:15.640 --> 00:46:27.800 Bruce Cramer: Well, I think many of the subjects that we've been discussing we can all agree. There's much deeper Dives we can do. I like the idea of the panel, and now I'm thinking out loud, so I don't.
00:46:28.040 --> 00:46:31.969 Bruce Cramer: you know, want to surprise you, too, but I also think it would be
00:46:32.070 --> 00:46:58.800 Bruce Cramer: pretty cool to have this the impact of AI and have a few different business sectors. Represent it. So you know, because you know the thing, Natej, that you know you really, the thing is, you can't fear unpredictability, unpredictability is the greatest opportunity for huge success.
00:46:59.130 --> 00:47:16.990 Bruce Cramer: because the people that figure out or are able to navigate that unpredictability are going to do really? Well. So you lead with that curiosity. As we've talked in the past, you do have these different schools of strategy you can apply. There's no reason to fear.
00:47:17.100 --> 00:47:23.489 Bruce Cramer: but you need to acknowledge, and you need to move forward and not retreat or freeze.
00:47:24.680 --> 00:47:30.320 nawtej dosanjh: Bruce. I tell you, when you talk about unpredictability, your face lights up.
00:47:30.560 --> 00:47:51.299 nawtej dosanjh: You've got. You've got opportunity written all over your forehead, your eyes, your cheeks. It's sort of you thinking. Wow! I've got some opportunities. You get really excited. Your fatal face lights up. You look like a sort of teenager ready to embark on your.
00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:51.710 Bruce Cramer: God.
00:47:51.710 --> 00:47:52.070 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah.
00:47:52.365 --> 00:47:52.660 Angie Snowball: Yeah.
00:47:52.660 --> 00:48:18.299 Angie Snowball: it would be so cool to have a panel of people that are from very different industries or positions, and just ask them like how they're using AI like, what are they using? I know I have this like marketing mastermind once a month, and we talk a lot about what everybody's ais they're using and what they like and what they don't like. And that's 1 of my favorite times of the month I learned so much from that. So I think it'd be awesome to have a panel.
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:18.820 nawtej dosanjh: Okay. Then.
00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:20.580 Angie Snowball: And just hear what people are doing.
00:48:20.580 --> 00:48:46.409 nawtej dosanjh: Let's absolutely let's do it. Okay, we're we're into the home straight for this evening, though, and I do want to hit this topic because it's important, because everyone has a career. Everyone has ambition, everyone has career, ambition. So and each and each way of thinking we call them schools. But but let me, you know, I'll be less pompous. There's a way of thinking. Strategy is just a way of thinking so.
00:48:46.710 --> 00:48:48.869 nawtej dosanjh: Which careers. Do you think
00:48:49.820 --> 00:48:58.779 nawtej dosanjh: we'll start with the the easy schools, the planning schools which careers, do you think would be
00:48:59.990 --> 00:49:06.203 nawtej dosanjh: the best or most appropriate for
00:49:07.940 --> 00:49:20.759 nawtej dosanjh: sorry which which planet which schools of strategy would be most appropriate, for which career. So we'll start with the the planning schools. So which careers are they most appropriate. For do you think.
00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:42.040 Angie Snowball: So I think it's gonna be like, like what I used to do. So anybody who's like in certain data analytics volume forecasting that type of thing. But also I would guess it's just a guess I'm I'm kind of looking at Dr. Like, oh, I hope I pass I would guess like engineers.
00:49:42.350 --> 00:49:42.970 Angie Snowball: you know.
00:49:42.970 --> 00:49:57.080 Angie Snowball: I would guess, like engineers like engineering, because they they want everything about. An engineer wants to be very predictable, and they want to be able to play. They want to work with facts, you know, and plan things and equations and all those things. I'm not good at.
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:02.510 nawtej dosanjh: Any others, Bruce? I I think so, I agree. But any others what- what other careers.
00:50:03.430 --> 00:50:26.490 Bruce Cramer: You know I this is a great conversation, because my mind is racing. And, by the way, I have a couple of comments. Jesse, our producer engineer. Yes, my hairline is retreating, but I can't say the other one on air, but she's she's a gas.
00:50:26.490 --> 00:50:26.880 nawtej dosanjh: Job, too.
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:39.619 Bruce Cramer: You know. So when you asked me again, now I'm I'm I'm I'm sorry this is happening. Live. But I I think of
00:50:41.540 --> 00:50:58.970 Bruce Cramer: again. I think of back to the AI stuff where my mind is racing as to, I think I think as you gotta be careful to to pretend, there's 1 lane like one school.
00:50:59.340 --> 00:51:03.600 Bruce Cramer: Well, you I we gotta! We gotta wipe that paradigm away.
00:51:03.890 --> 00:51:05.820 Angie Snowball: I think you have to be
00:51:06.410 --> 00:51:12.680 Angie Snowball: that are coding. They want the planning, but they have to adapt because of Bruce's AI thing right.
00:51:12.680 --> 00:51:13.030 Bruce Cramer: Well.
00:51:13.030 --> 00:51:14.290 Angie Snowball: Be in 2 schools.
00:51:14.290 --> 00:51:39.250 Bruce Cramer: What I'm yeah. I think it's important to read the book, and just like we did the spot where you're weak, where you're weak in terms of the different schools of thought and strategy that can only complement you, and it has to complement you. Because if you're stuck in one school of thought or strategy that I think will be a liability in no time.
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:47.119 nawtej dosanjh: Yeah, you know something. I'm glad you mentioned this because I I hadn't thought about it that way. I was just gonna I was just gonna
00:51:47.230 --> 00:52:08.180 nawtej dosanjh: talk about careers in each of the 4 schools. You know, which would be inappropriate. And and you said engineering, I think she's right. I could have. I may have added finance. But, Bruce, I think you're right. I think you're right. This has got to be even the questions that we've I've posed here.
00:52:08.590 --> 00:52:23.940 nawtej dosanjh: I've got to be much more careful about posing them. Because engineers, Cfos data analysts, they've they've got to be able to use AI. Yeah, they? They can't be in the planning school, even though that is a career.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:26.470 Bruce Cramer: Yeah, oh, absolutely.
00:52:26.470 --> 00:52:38.229 nawtej dosanjh: You're right. You're right. That's yeah. You know, you've really challenged my assumption there. And I and I and I think you're right. I think the question was weak.
00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:56.469 nawtej dosanjh: I think the question was too simple. No, I think you're right. I think the question was too simple. It's too weak. It was, too. You know our listeners are great people. You're right. There needs to be a better, a better way of framing.
00:52:57.680 --> 00:53:12.840 Angie Snowball: I think every curator needs all 10 of these schools at every point. And even before AI, like I worked in automotive right? And there's a ton of engineers running around with their pocket protectors and talking about numbers and stuff. But guess what machines would go down
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:35.880 Angie Snowball: and we'd have deadlines. Something would break, a tolerance wouldn't come in, and they have to change things on the fly they have to adjust. So even though yes, they want to live in the planning world that I think any career has. That, you know, like this is my comfort zone. This is where I want to be, but I can't think of a career that doesn't at some point in time need to be all of these, especially learning right. Everything has to keep learning.
00:53:36.430 --> 00:53:58.999 Bruce Cramer: And it's bringing me back to last week where you need all of the disc types. So I'm thinking, as an organization, not so much as an individual. But you have friends and colleagues and stuff you can pull in. I think it's important to understand predominantly your strengths in terms of these different strategy schools
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:07.020 Bruce Cramer: and then go out and get help, you know. Invite others on the team that have the strength, maybe more, in
00:54:07.060 --> 00:54:19.719 Bruce Cramer: the planning side of things, etc. So compliment yourself as you learn as well. So to me, it's, you know, if if that's something you're not strong at, get it. Get the help.
00:54:20.210 --> 00:54:22.109 Angie Snowball: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
00:54:22.410 --> 00:54:23.794 nawtej dosanjh: You know, you know.
00:54:24.563 --> 00:54:34.580 nawtej dosanjh: it's great that we we you know I always enjoy this hour that we have. It's it's it's too short. But I don't know about you guys, but I always learn something
00:54:34.770 --> 00:54:36.909 nawtej dosanjh: in this one. I always learn something.
00:54:36.910 --> 00:54:37.500 Angie Snowball: Oh, yeah.
00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:56.109 nawtej dosanjh: Guys, and I take great joy in the fact that we just don't bother rehearsing this, because if we try, it would be totally unnatural. So I have one question because we we're going to end in it. We've got 30 seconds or a minute left. One thing that we've all learned
00:54:56.450 --> 00:54:58.130 nawtej dosanjh: just in the last hour.
00:54:59.174 --> 00:55:00.710 nawtej dosanjh: Bruce, you go first.st
00:55:01.970 --> 00:55:28.579 Bruce Cramer: There's more than one thing, but but I think you know what I like is that the 10 schools kind of break down for me in a more structured, deliberate, purposeful way as to what it is I actually do. So, you know, it was this conversation that I realized I do skate for lack of a better term, but I do it on.
00:55:28.580 --> 00:55:30.229 nawtej dosanjh: Good word. Skate's good word.
00:55:30.850 --> 00:55:39.609 Bruce Cramer: But I but I do it out of necessity, so that to me was. And then Angie's Aha! Moment was big for me.
00:55:40.930 --> 00:55:43.990 Angie Snowball: What was my Aha moment? Tell me later. It must have been good.
00:55:43.990 --> 00:55:46.820 Bruce Cramer: You made me realize that I skate.
00:55:47.275 --> 00:55:49.460 Bruce Cramer: You're the one that taught me to speak.
00:55:49.580 --> 00:55:50.729 Angie Snowball: Oh, goodness!
00:55:50.730 --> 00:55:51.690 nawtej dosanjh: Right. I didn't.
00:55:52.910 --> 00:55:56.150 nawtej dosanjh: Angie, what was your what was your one thing? Because we are gonna just.
00:55:56.150 --> 00:55:56.730 Angie Snowball: Yeah.
00:55:57.190 --> 00:56:10.159 Angie Snowball: think the one thing is just that it's I would encourage everybody to know what these 10 schools are, because one you'll be able to identify. It's like, Swat, we're really bringing swat back, man, you gotta know your strengths and weaknesses.
00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:27.740 Angie Snowball: but I think that was important to me, because one, it built some confidence like, Oh, I do have some strategy. I didn't even know it. And 2, it more specifically made me realize you know what I probably need more help in that, and that instead of just Hey, I don't know what I'm doing, so.
00:56:27.740 --> 00:56:42.520 nawtej dosanjh: Wonderful. I tell you what I what I've learned, and I've just learned it in the last 7 or 8 min, and then we got to go. What I've learned is that these schools need a little bit more work because of AI. Like everything else.
00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:48.160 nawtej dosanjh: these schools now need a little bit of work they need a little bit of updating
00:56:48.490 --> 00:57:01.279 nawtej dosanjh: because of because of AI, and that's that's where we're going to leave it. Guys. Thank you so much for making this such a pleasurable episode, like all the others. But thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
00:57:02.210 --> 00:57:03.910 nawtej dosanjh: Take us away.
00:57:03.910 --> 00:57:04.840 Bruce Cramer: Thank you for everyone.
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:05.610 Angie Snowball: Everybody, join.
00:57:05.610 --> 00:57:06.940 Bruce Cramer: Does we love you?
00:57:07.110 --> 00:57:08.450 nawtej dosanjh: Thank you. Thank you.
00:57:08.450 --> 00:57:10.679 Angie Snowball: We have a guest come back next week.
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