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EPISODE SUMMARY:
Stress and burnout are rampant in today's incredibly uncertain and constantly changing business landscape. How can leaders protect themselves and continue to thrive in the face of adversity? In this episode, you will learn the Endurance Leader four-part framework to help you build your mental, physical, and interpersonal longevity, and get practical tips to help you embed these philosophies and practices into your leadership approach.
Leaders often face overwhelming demands in fast-paced environments. As a consultant and coach, Dr. Ann Bowers-Evangelista noticed a recurring pattern: leaders struggling to sustain their energy and purpose while navigating relentless pressure. Yet, they need to stay motivated, inspired, and productive in their leadership, becuse this has a trickle-down effect on their teams.
Her Endurance Leader framework offers a way to strategically plan for sustainable success by blendiung resilience, self-awareness, and long-term strategies to help leaders thrive without compromising their well-being. She will share how to develop and implement this plan, prepare to face inevitable obstacles, and remain focused, adaptable, and resilient to drive meaningful results over time.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Ann Bowers-Evangelista is a master leadership psychologist, with almost 30 years of consulting and coaching with organizations of all sizes and complexities. As a clinical psychologist with an MBA and also an Ironman triathlete, Ann brings her range of expertise to help her clients develop more satisfying, meaningful, and productive leadership. Her first book, The Endurance Leader (released last November) leverages the principles of endurance athletes to help leaders develop a long-term approach to leadership. She is the founder and President of Llumos, LLC and The Endurance Leader, LLC.
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
https://www.llumos.com
https://www.theenduranceleader.com
www.gotowerscope.com
#theenduranceleader
#leadershipignited
#mission
#mentaltoughness
#pacing
#TheHardSkills
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Dr. Mira Brancu introduces Season 8 of The Hard Skills with a focus on endurance in leadership, welcoming Dr. Ann Bowers-Evangelista, a psychologist and Ironman triathlete, whose work bridges elite athletic training with long-term leadership performance. Dr. Ann shares that endurance leadership isn't about suffering—it’s about purpose-driven resilience, sustainable habits, and redefining what success looks like beyond traditional achievements. Her personal journey—from a traumatic bike accident to becoming a powerful teammate and supporter—demonstrates how reframing goals from outcome-based to process- and purpose-oriented can lead to deeper fulfillment and longer-lasting leadership impact.
Dr. Ann Bowers-Evangelista unpacks the foundation of her Endurance Leader model, emphasizing the importance of anchoring one’s mindset in deep intrinsic motivation rather than fleeting external rewards. She explains the critical distinction between outcome, performance, and process goals—arguing that true leadership longevity stems from focusing on the process and internal growth, especially when external conditions are unpredictable. In a world of shifting goals and constant upheaval, leaders must prioritize pacing, adaptability, and self-alignment to remain resilient and effective for the long haul.
Dr. Ann Bowers-Evangelista explores common challenges that derail leadership endurance—like “shiny object syndrome,” instant gratification, and resistance to discomfort—and underscores the value of small, consistent actions rooted in identity-driven goals. Drawing from behavioral psychology and concepts like minimum viable effort, she shares how tiny, intentional changes—such as muting oneself to avoid interrupting—can create outsized impact when repeated over time. Endurance leadership, she explains, isn’t built through quick fixes but through deliberate planning, consistent accountability, and a deep alignment with who you truly want to become as a leader.
Dr. Ann Bowers-Evangelista highlights the critical role of intentional recovery and periodization in sustaining long-term leadership performance, drawing from elite athletic practices to emphasize rest as a strategic advantage—not a luxury. She explains how micro-recoveries, clear boundaries, and accountability partners can help leaders avoid burnout and perform at their peak without compromising health or energy. By embedding small but consistent habits into their routine and shifting from reactive recovery to proactive planning, leaders can build endurance and resilience that supports both personal well-being and professional excellence.
00:00:51.940 --> 00:01:18.269 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills show where we take a deep dive into the most challenging soft skills required to navigate leadership, uncertainty, complexities and change today and into the future. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Branku, psychologist, leadership consultant and founder of towerscope, and I want to welcome you to the new season. Season 8, where we are focusing on endurance and leadership.
00:01:18.360 --> 00:01:26.859 Mira Brancu: and I literally cannot think of a better guest to kick this season off someone who knows how hard
00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:33.999 Mira Brancu: leaders struggle to sustain their energy and purpose while navigating relentless pressure.
00:01:34.390 --> 00:01:37.779 Mira Brancu: She's going to share with us the endurance leader model.
00:01:38.080 --> 00:01:43.210 Mira Brancu: and one that's not just for elite performance types, but also for lasting performance.
00:01:43.710 --> 00:02:01.520 Mira Brancu: And she's going to talk about cultivating ways of thinking, acting, and engaging that are satisfying and sustainable. So let me introduce her to you right now, Dr. Ann Bowers, Evangelista in inner circles, and you can see if you're watching right now. She
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:12.430 Mira Brancu: refers to herself as Dr. Anne be for short, I don't know why you would want to give up Bowers, Evangelista. I love saying that Bowers Evangelista, but.
00:02:12.430 --> 00:02:13.040 Ann B-E (she/her): To.
00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:38.989 Mira Brancu: For some folks it's much easier to say, Nbe, she is the author of endurance, leader, leadership, longevity in a fast-paced world which leverages the principles of endurance athletes to help leaders develop a long-term approach to leadership. She's the founder and president of Lumos Llc. And the endurance leader. Another Llc. As a clinical psychologist with an Mba, a master's
00:02:39.210 --> 00:03:01.089 Mira Brancu: and leadership, a master leadership psychologist, with almost 30 years of consulting and coaching, with organizations of all sizes and complexities, and as an ironman, triathlete, and brings her range of expertise to help her clients develop more satisfying, meaningful, and productive leadership, so welcome and great to have you on Ann.
00:03:01.430 --> 00:03:05.289 Ann B-E (she/her): Thank you, Mira. It is a huge pleasure for me to be here.
00:03:05.540 --> 00:03:17.455 Mira Brancu: Yeah, it is a pleasure for me, for many reasons. Number one, you're one of the few who danced with me to my own music. So that means a lot.
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:18.690 Ann B-E (she/her): Absolutely.
00:03:18.690 --> 00:03:35.990 Mira Brancu: Yeah, it's a little things. Second is, you know, you and I are part of the Society of Consulting Psychologists Division 13 of the American Psychological Association, and you were one of those 1st people to welcome me in and to
00:03:36.210 --> 00:03:51.679 Mira Brancu: be so kind and accommodating. And just you know, I think you you focus without even realizing it, on the making sure people feel of have a feeling of belonging. And that is
00:03:51.690 --> 00:04:07.750 Mira Brancu: something that is rare for someone who was already at your. You know the height of your career at your level, who like, doesn't really need, you know, any larger of a network like, you know so many people. You're so connected. But it's those little things that I think
00:04:07.910 --> 00:04:20.600 Mira Brancu: not only you know, make me appreciate more about who you are. But I think as we start talking today probably adds to this endurance leadership framework. I suspect.
00:04:20.940 --> 00:04:27.490 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, I think you're right. Thank you. That is so kind. And I'm so glad that you had that experience. I I feel like
00:04:27.610 --> 00:04:40.890 Ann B-E (she/her): in the Society for Consulting Psychology. We have so many great opportunities to learn from one another, and there's so much talent. I'm super excited about all of the talent we.
00:04:40.890 --> 00:05:01.259 Ann B-E (she/her): you know, I saw when you came through, and there's lots of talent we see coming forward, and I hope that some of our conversation today will help people who are in those talent pools to think about how they can sustain that over 2030 years which many of them are looking at in terms of their leadership, longevity.
00:05:01.420 --> 00:05:08.540 Mira Brancu: For sure, for sure. And so let's start with the thing that I find most fascinating about
00:05:08.850 --> 00:05:29.120 Mira Brancu: how you got into this. You know writing about speaking about endurance, leadership, and I think you know the most obvious to me. There are, you know, probably some ways that is not obvious to me. But the most obvious is this Ironman triathlete. This is your background, like what it takes to be an ironman triathlete, which
00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:35.799 Mira Brancu: I can't even imagine. But it is endurance, leadership, right? It's it's embedded in it. And I love to hear about
00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:47.000 Mira Brancu: your your experience. Learning how to just embody this mindset of you know, doing the ironman and what
00:05:47.230 --> 00:05:53.160 Mira Brancu: what did you learn from it? What were those pivotal moments, the lessons that you extracted from it that connect to this idea.
00:05:53.640 --> 00:05:55.525 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, thanks for that. And it
00:05:55.940 --> 00:06:11.599 Ann B-E (she/her): something I don't think I've ever said before, but in what you just said made me realize like I wasn't born doing this. I did my 1st triathlon in 2,002, and it was like a quarter of the distance of a full ironman, and I was like.
00:06:11.710 --> 00:06:17.010 Ann B-E (she/her): never again. Why is enough. Why would I ever do this again? I.
00:06:17.010 --> 00:06:17.700 Mira Brancu: Oh, that's a.
00:06:17.700 --> 00:06:25.640 Ann B-E (she/her): And and not because I was happy. So like my initial experience, was really not great. And then.
00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:50.590 Ann B-E (she/her): I think, when it really started to build was. A few years later I heard about an organization called Team and Training, which may seem adjacent, but it's really fundamental to the 1st part of the book, and it is an organization that operates as a fundraising arm of the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, and they train people from nothing to do. Marathons and triathlons.
00:06:50.590 --> 00:06:51.080 Mira Brancu: Wow!
00:06:51.080 --> 00:07:11.860 Ann B-E (she/her): And bike rides and all sorts of things, and you raise money for leukemia photo society through that organization. And when I heard about that I got really interested, because suddenly there was purpose in the activity. Suddenly there was meaning for me in a way that there had not been before.
00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:39.700 Ann B-E (she/her): and that was really the foundational element at that point. I also wasn't. I thought people who did ironman were crazy. I was like, never in a million years would I do that, and I am. I will disclose to your listeners that in 2 months, when I will be 57 years old I will do an ironman race as a fundraiser for pancreatic cancer research. And I've raised.
00:07:39.700 --> 00:07:40.020 Mira Brancu: Yes.
00:07:40.020 --> 00:07:41.559 Ann B-E (she/her): Dollars already for.
00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:41.900 Mira Brancu: Amazing.
00:07:41.900 --> 00:08:00.909 Ann B-E (she/her): For me. It's a huge part. So this connection of something very purposive like it it there's some agency in it like there's something beyond just myself, and I think it's fine to do any of these activities, because there's a
00:08:01.130 --> 00:08:17.890 Ann B-E (she/her): big fancy metal at the end. However, it's not particularly sustainable, and especially when you get to these longer distances that will not hold you. And that is absolutely a key element in understanding endurance. Leader concepts.
00:08:17.890 --> 00:08:25.610 Mira Brancu: That makes a lot of sense, you know, when when we think endurance leader or endurance in leadership, we only think about.
00:08:25.850 --> 00:08:38.380 Mira Brancu: you know the the part about sustaining through arduous, tumultuous, exhausting experiences. But the why, that's the important part.
00:08:38.650 --> 00:08:49.510 Mira Brancu: The purpose keeps you going, and that, you know it makes it worthwhile. So I really, I really appreciated hearing that piece of it. I hadn't thought about that, but that makes a lot of sense.
00:08:50.090 --> 00:09:03.332 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, thanks. And and I'll just share that. Recently I was sharing with a number of colleagues about the concept. And one of my colleagues says on this call with, like 20 other people, you know, I really don't like the word endurance.
00:09:03.640 --> 00:09:04.070 Mira Brancu: Interesting.
00:09:04.070 --> 00:09:06.850 Ann B-E (she/her): Well, thank you for bringing that up.
00:09:06.850 --> 00:09:07.670 Mira Brancu: Because.
00:09:07.670 --> 00:09:12.569 Ann B-E (she/her): I think he was. He was expressing. What a lot of people think about. These terms
00:09:12.730 --> 00:09:19.040 Ann B-E (she/her): are not things we like. We think of enduring as something horrible.
00:09:19.040 --> 00:09:19.370 Mira Brancu: Right.
00:09:19.370 --> 00:09:32.929 Ann B-E (she/her): Have to just get through right. And my thought is, we are all going to have things in life that we are going to have to get through that are difficult and are just and sometimes self imposed.
00:09:33.640 --> 00:09:42.780 Ann B-E (she/her): Don't we want to know how to get through those the best possible way we can. Don't. We want to thrive in those moments.
00:09:42.780 --> 00:10:05.640 Ann B-E (she/her): So to me, it's kind of like taking the word back and giving giving it our own power and agency around it rather than having it be something we like are afraid of and and try to avoid. So that's a huge part of why it we'll talk about. Mental toughness is somewhat similar, like that whole term is hard for people to get their their arms around.
00:10:05.710 --> 00:10:06.310 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:10:06.310 --> 00:10:32.320 Mira Brancu: absolutely. So. I also know, in addition to like having a purpose, there's always going to be things that throw you off of that purpose, or, you know, throw you enough for a loop that you start wondering like, why am I here? And why am I doing this? And I know as a ironman. Triathlete, you also had, you know, some of those kind of like pivotal moments questioning, you know, so I'd love to hear more about.
00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:41.209 Mira Brancu: You know. Did you have any setbacks anything that made you question whether you would continue? And then what did you do with that kind of experience?
00:10:41.210 --> 00:10:41.720 Ann B-E (she/her): Same.
00:10:41.920 --> 00:11:06.510 Ann B-E (she/her): That's yeah. Thank you for that. My, I have a very, very specific setback. I was training for my 1st ironman through team and training in 2,011, and I was in a pretty horrible bike wreck, and I broke my hip and it was very traumatic. I had to undergo emergency surgery. I lost a lot of blood transfusions, the whole thing. It was not.
00:11:06.510 --> 00:11:06.900 Mira Brancu: Scary.
00:11:06.900 --> 00:11:20.999 Ann B-E (she/her): It wasn't. It was very scary and I remember very clearly, like thinking in my head that somehow I was gonna be able to recover between August and November, and my Co. One of the coaches was like
00:11:21.801 --> 00:11:32.350 Ann B-E (she/her): not in the cards, you know, and I was a little bit deaf, I mean, of course, I had been training so hard for so long. And you just like it's just gone overnight. But
00:11:33.420 --> 00:11:38.129 Ann B-E (she/her): because I had been doing my racing through team and training, and I had been
00:11:38.370 --> 00:12:03.090 Ann B-E (she/her): really engaged. There was a team of 50 of us doing this race. It was incredible how many people. Maybe it was less than that, but it was almost 50 people, which was incredible. And what I realized is what I cared so much about was being able to raise the money and being part of the team. And my mission really was okay, I'm going to raise the money. In fact, I doubled the amount of money.
00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:03.690 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:06.280 Ann B-E (she/her): People. It was pity money. But that's okay, that's fine.
00:12:06.780 --> 00:12:28.059 Ann B-E (she/her): But I started showing up to practice just to support the team in a wheelchair because I couldn't do anything else but that part of my identity. That part of being a teammate, was what really mattered to me getting a medal at the end of that race wasn't what mattered. And I think this is
00:12:28.060 --> 00:12:43.780 Ann B-E (she/her): can be really true if we allow it to be in the leadership space to? How are we defining what our success really means to us? Right? The organization might have a sense of what it is, but what does it mean to us?
00:12:44.380 --> 00:12:49.189 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I, I really wanna highlight a couple of things that you mentioned, which is
00:12:50.400 --> 00:12:52.349 Mira Brancu: how we choose to
00:12:52.810 --> 00:13:04.839 Mira Brancu: connect our identity makes a big difference in kind of like the longevity, the sustainability, the outcomes, and our own feeling about our own successes like, if we tie our identity to
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:33.580 Mira Brancu: you know 1 point in time, one gold medal, whatever that is. And then you're not able to reach that. You're gonna feel a lot more disappointed, a lot more frustrated. You're gonna put some negative experiences. But you ended up choosing. And this is a choice. You ended up choosing to see your identity as a teammate, and what you can do to continue on for your team and be there for your team. And that is a different mindset in and of itself, that.
00:13:33.580 --> 00:13:34.380 Ann B-E (she/her): That's right.
00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:59.579 Mira Brancu: Kind of shifts, and then the other that you mentioned was that you were willing to be adaptable in the role that you took on the team and the role that you took in just finishing the race, and that once you were, you shifted into that new role you were able to then embrace and continue regardless of kind of like, how you were engaging, which I think is like very powerful.
00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:19.759 Ann B-E (she/her): It was a very powerful experience, and I would. I went to the race I mean. I was on crutches, and I went to Arizona to cheer the team on, and I was exhausted. But it was such a meaningful experience. In a way it would have been. It would have been a very meaningful experience had I done it. But I had such a different and and in some ways
00:14:19.760 --> 00:14:42.430 Ann B-E (she/her): like a valuable experience I couldn't have had in any other way, being this cheerleader, you know. And so you're picking up something, and we can talk some more about it that I emphasize in the book in in one way, and then in the sport and performance psychology language. There's a lot around the different kinds of goals. We have outcome goals, process goals and performance goals. And
00:14:42.640 --> 00:14:51.450 Ann B-E (she/her): so often we focus on outcome goals. And that's the equivalent of saying I want to win the race. Well.
00:14:51.590 --> 00:14:56.089 Ann B-E (she/her): the reality is whether or not, you win. The race depends on who shows up
00:14:56.190 --> 00:15:07.409 Ann B-E (she/her): like. If if the world's best marathoner shows up, you know, no matter how good you are. But if you're good, you're, you know, a regional marathon. You might. You might win the race. So
00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:19.229 Ann B-E (she/her): if if your identity is in that outcome, you can be really, really disappointed. And but if you think about process and performance goals which are much more
00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:41.300 Ann B-E (she/her): intrinsic motivators versus an extrinsic motivator, both can be motivating. But our intrinsic motivators. We have a lot greater sense of self efficacy, a lot greater confidence. And we typically perform better when those are our primary motivators. And I think this becomes again really, really important in the leadership and team space.
00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:45.970 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I am noticing we're reaching an ad break
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:50.760 Mira Brancu: when we come back from the ad break. I want to quickly sort of go into
00:15:51.310 --> 00:16:00.499 Mira Brancu: what you took from that experience that changed, how you approached the ironman triathlete experience, and then
00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:24.100 Mira Brancu: how you extracted that into your own model and your own framework on endurance leadership. Okay, so we're at this ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today. Dr. Ann. Bowers, Evangelista or Ann, be author of the Endurance leader. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you're here right now, watching us live, you can
00:16:24.170 --> 00:16:33.479 Mira Brancu: drop us a line. Say, Hi, send us questions. We're on Linkedin Youtube, several other locations@talkradio.nyc. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:18:15.030 --> 00:18:22.769 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Bronco and our guest today, Dr. Ann. Bowers, Evangelista, and
00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:29.889 Mira Brancu: one of the things that I wanted to find out before we get into your framework. I actually have 2 questions. Now. One is.
00:18:30.290 --> 00:18:36.810 Mira Brancu: what did you take from the mind shift that you made
00:18:37.040 --> 00:18:42.594 Mira Brancu: after that experience, and you started thinking much more about
00:18:43.630 --> 00:18:54.720 Mira Brancu: the process you mentioned outcome process and performance goals. That sort of like led to this long, bigger framework of how you think about endurance, leadership.
00:18:55.190 --> 00:19:14.539 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, I think that ultimately the the thing that shifted the most was this notion of having your mindset anchored in something that is intrinsic to you. And so I talk about it in the book, you know. That's kind of the whole 1st part of the framework is anchoring your mindset. And
00:19:15.130 --> 00:19:39.339 Ann B-E (she/her): again, you know, extrinsic motivators, you know, rewards, recognitions, raises, promotions. Those things can be motivating, but research shows they are not as motivating overall as those that are really intrinsic and lead to some better internal outcomes. Like I said, self efficacy. So I started realizing, like what
00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:41.340 Ann B-E (she/her): without that.
00:19:41.610 --> 00:20:04.080 Ann B-E (she/her): without kind of I I like to think of it as more than just knowing your why? Because, knowing your why, the answer is because and I'm like it leaves something. It's like a response to something. No, this is like deep like, what is it that is driving you? And if we can connect with that and keep that going. It helps us through those
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:26.990 Ann B-E (she/her): inevitable, horrible moments. I talk about a lot in the chapter. Run the mile you're in when it's, you know, pro, you know, metaphorically pouring rain and 42 degrees, and you're, you know, 20 miles into a marathon, right? Like all you want to. If if the only thing motivating you is a medal at the end.
00:20:26.990 --> 00:20:38.559 Ann B-E (she/her): You're not gonna finish. It's too it's like, it's too much. You you're literally going. What am I here for? What in the world am I doing this for? And so that's where that connection really
00:20:38.560 --> 00:20:43.790 Ann B-E (she/her): started from. And then the rest kind of built around that notion.
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:59.620 Mira Brancu: Beautiful. Okay? So last quick question. Before we get into this, some people might want to know what's the difference between outcome process and performance goals, and especially, I was thinking, between outcome and performance goals. Some people might see that as the same.
00:20:59.770 --> 00:21:22.370 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, great question. And I am I'm going to do my best to represent the sport and performance psychology. Well, for those who might be on the call from that space they can correct me. But outcome goals really are the results, the results of some performance effort. Right? So it is things like, you know, in a in sport it would be an award, or, you know, a
00:21:22.937 --> 00:21:41.080 Ann B-E (she/her): super bowl. Sure, you know when in business it might be us, you know. Salesperson of the year award, it might be, even winning a particular client contract. Those are outcome goals as a result of these things, we will achieve this outcome right? A
00:21:41.340 --> 00:21:58.320 Ann B-E (she/her): a performance goal is essentially saying I or we are going to try to get maybe X percent better in this thing. Our performance is going to improve. We don't know if it's going to lead to this outcome. But
00:21:58.790 --> 00:22:06.090 Ann B-E (she/her): you know again, in in athletics. It might be, I'm gonna try to reduce my minute per mile, pace.
00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:33.449 Ann B-E (she/her): 15 seconds, right and so that's the the difference is one is only gauged by like some internal metric that we're utilizing. Another is, does it result in something so certainly a a performance goal could lead to an outcome goal. But an outcome goal might not always lead to a performance goal. And then a process goal is really like the deepest level. It's like.
00:22:33.450 --> 00:22:56.009 Ann B-E (she/her): I want to get better at. So I want to. One of the ways I'm going to get faster is if I pay more attention to my stride length, or I work on my balance on my running. So you know, if I'm gonna get that salesman of the year award, I need to make
00:22:56.220 --> 00:23:08.270 Ann B-E (she/her): 10 calls a day instead of 3 calls a day, whatever those things are, or I want to get better at engaging with my potential clients. Those are the differences.
00:23:08.530 --> 00:23:14.200 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so few people.
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:14.820 Ann B-E (she/her): Focus.
00:23:14.820 --> 00:23:23.530 Mira Brancu: On that last one the process right? Because it's like the sort of boring. Where is it taking me? Kind of thing right? And yet.
00:23:24.164 --> 00:23:40.080 Mira Brancu: As you say, it's the deepest level. It's probably gonna get you the furthest. So now let's connect it to your endurance leader model. And let's let's start sort of like talking about the 4 part framework. And I'm curious like how that connects to the this process.
00:23:40.080 --> 00:23:48.830 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, yeah. So you know, the 4 parts are, you know, as we just discussed kind of anchoring your mindset right? Starting with this whole notion of
00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:51.920 Ann B-E (she/her): what is driving you, and then
00:23:52.120 --> 00:24:15.520 Ann B-E (she/her): really understanding that at a very deep level. And I I do things like talk to people about hugging their headstone, you know, like, what do you want said about you at the end of your life, or what? What do you want to be known for? Or you know, if that's the really deep level, or even what do you want to be known for as a leader? But people don't often think about that and make that deep connection. And then it's like.
00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:25.080 Ann B-E (she/her): Well, where am I on that journey now? So then, we do things that you and I would know about. Let's collect some baseline data. It's exactly how you would train for a marathon. I want to run this Marathon.
00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.689 Ann B-E (she/her): Have I ever run before.
00:24:28.070 --> 00:24:55.520 Ann B-E (she/her): Did I run a half Marathon last week? How I go forward might matter, depending on my baseline data. So looking at those pieces and then really doing some planning around that. And then we're really focusing on the execution of that like, what? Okay? Now I know where I am. I know where I'm going right? How do I actually execute? And how do I deal with the inevitable challenges around that execution? Things like, you know.
00:24:55.520 --> 00:25:00.139 Ann B-E (she/her): running a mile you're in when things are not going well, how do you hold yourself there?
00:25:00.300 --> 00:25:08.100 Ann B-E (she/her): The action, reflection cycle? Am I paying attention to the data that I'm collecting and making adjustments along the way.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:24.230 Ann B-E (she/her): Rest, am I getting my recovery right? So these are the concepts that really are critical in that execution place in discipline, and they're closely related. But in discipline you're really looking at, how do I ensure that I'm staying kind of
00:25:24.770 --> 00:25:43.130 Ann B-E (she/her): mentally and physically and emotionally ready? And that's mental toughness. It is things like you were just talking about adaptability kind of resilience, being able to shift and be agile. Right? It's also learning from failure.
00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:57.139 Ann B-E (she/her): So you know all of those pieces, and then the last piece is around support, and we just can't do any. I mean, as a species. I don't know how you do it without support, but really understanding how to leverage support like
00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:10.933 Ann B-E (she/her): an external coach or internal coaches or data that you're collecting, and I even talk about gratitude as a source of support. And I tell a personal story about that, and how there's research that shows that
00:26:11.790 --> 00:26:34.249 Ann B-E (she/her): when leaders and athletes do more gratitude work or giving themselves away. They actually have better outcomes. And they also have higher levels of self efficacy and confidence. So it's that's kind of the entirety of the model. So I can go into more about the specifics of the goals, because I talk about it a little differently in the book.
00:26:34.520 --> 00:26:40.910 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I love this the 1st thing that comes up for me as I'm writing these things down and thinking about
00:26:41.190 --> 00:26:45.509 Mira Brancu: it is like right now, right people are.
00:26:46.130 --> 00:26:49.170 Mira Brancu: I have many clients that are feeling
00:26:49.320 --> 00:26:55.379 Mira Brancu: lost with whether they should do strategic planning even in the midst of so much
00:26:55.690 --> 00:27:13.599 Mira Brancu: constant change, potential reorganizations where they don't know what will happen or loss of you know, funding, or those kinds of things. And on the one hand, this is the perfect model to apply to get through this. And, on the other hand, there's this piece about
00:27:14.290 --> 00:27:28.799 Mira Brancu: trying to identify. Where am I on the journey might be hard to answer. And even like the execution or the discipline. And I would love to hear more about how you would think about this
00:27:28.970 --> 00:27:34.599 Mira Brancu: in times of major uncertainty, upheaval, and those kinds of experiences.
00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:58.800 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah, it's such a good question. And I think that we are seeing unprecedented change upheaval. You know the things that you know, for most people. Even the psychological contract with which they've understood their work for years or decades is changing. So it's very, very difficult to know
00:27:59.340 --> 00:28:11.409 Ann B-E (she/her): where to start, where to end, how much effort to put in what is gonna happen next? Am I gonna have to keep sprinting, do I? Slow down? We don't know. And it
00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:29.359 Ann B-E (she/her): it's it's like, Well, does this model work. And I kind of my contrast to that is what other models do we use if you're like? I think of this, as you know, leading self, leading others, leading the organization. This is leading self in a lot of ways, and
00:28:29.850 --> 00:28:35.499 Ann B-E (she/her): we may have so little control over some of these other factors.
00:28:35.670 --> 00:28:51.989 Ann B-E (she/her): So we kind of need to get right with ourselves. And so it's not the be all end all. But it's gotta at least start there with. Like, what am I about? Am I? Am I connecting with what really drives and matters to me? And if I don't have that.
00:28:52.010 --> 00:29:08.520 Ann B-E (she/her): Then, you know I am probably destined to be somewhat dissatisfied, no matter what happens. So there's that element of it. But I also think you're bringing up something, you know. I talk a lot in the run the mile you're in that when you have that connection.
00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:28.560 Ann B-E (she/her): it holds you through these times of uncertainty, but I think there's a fair argument, and I can't say I have. The answer to it right now is like, what if they keep changing the race course, and it's become a maze, and no, there's no way out of it yet, like nobody knows where the exit is, and so
00:29:28.750 --> 00:29:48.689 Ann B-E (she/her): I'm running, and I don't like the finish line isn't where I thought it was. It's somewhere else. And I will say like this, my, my book, I mean some of this was happening, but I think even now it's changing so much. But it really brings me to the concept of pacing, which is, you know.
00:29:49.460 --> 00:29:53.419 Ann B-E (she/her): if you go out hard, think of any run.
00:29:53.480 --> 00:30:23.170 Ann B-E (she/her): you go out hard. You're gonna burn up. You gotta know, unless you can see the finish line hold something back because you will need it at the at some later point you will not perform at your best, and so I often talk to people about, you know, is is life a sprint or a marathon? And people will say, could you know it could be both? I say it's often a series of Marathon series of sprints within a marathon, and what it means is
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:35.950 Ann B-E (she/her): we have to sometimes speed up, but we also have to intentionally slow down, and the organizations may never give us those opportunities, but it might. They might not call us for taking them.
00:30:36.030 --> 00:30:38.100 Ann B-E (she/her): and that's where I think people
00:30:38.540 --> 00:30:43.330 Ann B-E (she/her): lose sight. We don't necessarily say, hang on a second.
00:30:43.530 --> 00:30:57.520 Ann B-E (she/her): I need a minute to breathe, and maybe the organization won't fall apart or fire us. In fact, they might. We've seen a lot of that and that, but we don't seem to know what might create the firing right now. So it's like.
00:30:57.870 --> 00:31:00.910 Ann B-E (she/her): I gotta take care of being able to
00:31:01.220 --> 00:31:06.910 Ann B-E (she/her): sustain and hold on for the long term and allow my team to do the same. I know I said a lot.
00:31:06.910 --> 00:31:21.730 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, I have a million questions. But we're reaching an ad break. So we will come back in just a moment. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronco and our guest today, Dr. Ann. Bowers, Evangelista, author of The Endurance Leader, and we will be right back in just a moment.
00:32:53.240 --> 00:33:14.499 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Ann, be of the endurance leader, and as you were sharing with me about kind of what leaders need to be thinking about right now, and especially around like
00:33:14.650 --> 00:33:20.719 Mira Brancu: the journey, the execution, the discipline, a bunch of things started running through my mind about
00:33:20.970 --> 00:33:42.540 Mira Brancu: like people who have shiny object syndrome like me, who get excited about everything and all the things, and sometimes have trouble with the pacing, and I started thinking about like derailers, or what's most difficult for different kinds of people and different eras. Right? And so one thing I thought about was.
00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:52.129 Mira Brancu: are there generational differences right with different folks, you know, in in younger generations, having gotten kind of
00:33:52.240 --> 00:34:02.620 Mira Brancu: comfortable with a rapid pace of information or a greater boredom. If it takes too long. For example, or people who.
00:34:02.950 --> 00:34:17.840 Mira Brancu: you know are still learning to sit with discomfort, or have patience or hate the messy middle stuff right? And it requires an incredible amount of work
00:34:17.989 --> 00:34:31.529 Mira Brancu: to have some level of discipline to stay in the iron man right? And therefore in a long, like a prolonged uncertainty.
00:34:31.810 --> 00:34:34.049 Mira Brancu: And so I'm curious like,
00:34:35.670 --> 00:34:37.149 Mira Brancu: Are there?
00:34:37.634 --> 00:34:51.809 Mira Brancu: Some of these elements that you mentioned that are harder than others? Have you found ways to work through them? Any success stories, or any insights that you've learned as you've worked with clients. With all of these experiences.
00:34:51.810 --> 00:34:59.129 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's such a good question. Shiny object syndrome, you know. I I think that there are.
00:34:59.910 --> 00:35:29.499 Ann B-E (she/her): You know I I laugh about like generational differences, and people complaining and literally Aristotle, like, wrote about the next generation, and like how horrible they were, so like it's been going on for forever. But I do think that we've got some realities around the instantaneous gratification that just weren't possible in other eras. And so, when we live in such a niche. If I personally nationified gratifying, you know.
00:35:29.530 --> 00:35:39.820 Ann B-E (she/her): you know, gratify seeking space. People can very quickly find something to distract them from their discomfort.
00:35:40.030 --> 00:35:55.029 Ann B-E (she/her): I think it'd be interesting to hear from your guests and your and some of your clients and my clients as well about like, how does that really work like, does it? Is it really satisfying? I think it's in the moment satisfying?
00:35:55.512 --> 00:35:58.770 Ann B-E (she/her): But it's not like long term gratifying. And so.
00:35:58.770 --> 00:35:59.190 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:19.299 Ann B-E (she/her): In the messy middle is exactly the part around discipline, and what I will say is that I think it's easier when you have a plan. So if I just said, You know, I'm gonna do this ironman. And I know I've got to just kind of
00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:24.939 Ann B-E (she/her): keep training and just do a little more and more every week. Right?
00:36:25.410 --> 00:36:33.030 Ann B-E (she/her): It would be hard. There would be points I'd be, especially I'm traveling, or I don't feel like it, and it's like, I could do something else.
00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:45.490 Ann B-E (she/her): but I have every single day my tiny, slightly demented coach like puts on my schedule exactly what I have to do. And so.
00:36:45.640 --> 00:36:51.409 Ann B-E (she/her): while the goal itself might feel far away, and I might not feel, I'm like, Well, I'm just gonna do this.
00:36:51.630 --> 00:36:59.089 Ann B-E (she/her): I'm just gonna do this. So if it's like, Well, okay, you want to be better
00:36:59.520 --> 00:37:23.700 Ann B-E (she/her): at delegating and not trying to get everything done yourself. So let's try to build a plan with 2 of your direct reports, and we'll work through like the tasks that you want to transition over. And when you find yourself doing what's the one little thing you could do, and this leads into the whole notion of minimum viable effort which a lot of people know from atomic habits.
00:37:24.050 --> 00:37:30.779 Ann B-E (she/her): You know you can do this one thing, and it'll keep you closer on your on your path
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:34.489 Ann B-E (she/her): that in and of itself can help people stay motivated.
00:37:34.810 --> 00:37:36.030 Ann B-E (she/her): Somebody's not there.
00:37:36.310 --> 00:37:52.009 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, let's get into the planning and the goal setting. And like the behavior change stuff. Because I think there's a lot there. And of course, as a psychologist, you know. We have lots of tools in our toolbox around this, and a lot of people
00:37:52.458 --> 00:38:13.629 Mira Brancu: do get overwhelmed with kind of like thinking about the long term or the heaviness of everything. Or you know those kinds of things. So tell me more about the minimal viable effort and kind of like this. This idea of planning, and even the accountability piece you mentioned coaching as one accountability piece.
00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:28.719 Ann B-E (she/her): For sure. Yeah. And I'll just mention that one of the ideas that I really love from atomic habits, and all credit to James clear for putting it together. And I talk about in the book is really thinking about goals differently, like he talks about. You know, most of us start with a goal.
00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:35.249 Ann B-E (she/her): I wanna lose 20 pounds, and then we develop habits. And then we take our identity from whether or not we did that.
00:38:35.250 --> 00:38:35.970 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:38:35.970 --> 00:38:40.820 Ann B-E (she/her): And so if we don't lose that 20 pounds somehow, we're a horrible person, right? Instead of saying.
00:38:40.930 --> 00:39:02.757 Ann B-E (she/her): I would like to be healthier. That's an identity. And then I can create habits around that. And then there's outcomes related to those habits. So it's reversing the order of that which again goes back a little bit to mission like, who do I want to be? And so what what he talks about he takes from
00:39:03.630 --> 00:39:26.210 Ann B-E (she/her): Bj. Fogg, who's a researcher at Stanford who talks about this whole notion of minimum viable effort is like you're making a change so small it seems stupid to even say it out loud. That's really how he describes it. Like, it's not even worth saying. It feels so small. But that's where change really happens. And most of us, even though everybody knows about smart goals or scamp goals, or whatever.
00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:36.655 Ann B-E (she/her): We make our goals sometimes way too big. And so instead, if we can just break it down into little things right where?
00:39:37.890 --> 00:39:54.599 Ann B-E (she/her): I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about a success story. And it might be that the person whose success story it is, is actually listening. So somebody who's trying really hard around how much they're engaging with their team and and like talking too much right? And so
00:39:55.130 --> 00:40:03.860 Ann B-E (she/her): this person was really wanting to contribute, really wanting to say something, and felt himself getting really
00:40:03.970 --> 00:40:08.999 Ann B-E (she/her): eager to say something, and he just put his mute button on so he could not.
00:40:09.060 --> 00:40:17.999 Ann B-E (she/her): And he's like I I knew that if I did not have the mute button on I was gonna just go ahead. And provided it's this tiny little thing.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:41.339 Ann B-E (she/her): right? It's just the button on the thing. But that little tiny change actually produced a really positive yield in terms of the impact it had with this team and with the other people in the space. And so we can do these small things. We can say, you know. Go back to our delegation. You could delegate this task right? It's 1%
00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:46.640 Ann B-E (she/her): effort. What's 1%. The other thing that I think. And going back to support from coaches.
00:40:46.640 --> 00:40:55.020 Ann B-E (she/her): I think, as coaches. We sometimes do a disservice to our clients, because we'll have them trying to work on things that they might only practice like
00:40:55.150 --> 00:41:14.380 Ann B-E (she/her): maybe once a week. I want to get better at speaking in like executive meetings. Well, how often are you in those once a quarter like we. So if you think about an athlete, that's not how they work, they practice every single day. So instead, breaking it down and saying, well, what's the thing we want to go for? We want to get better at
00:41:14.730 --> 00:41:24.699 Ann B-E (she/her): voicing your ideas in a very clear way. Can you do that every day. Sure, right? And then we build that 1% that way.
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:30.659 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I've I'm reflecting on how connected
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:45.057 Mira Brancu: developing an endurance leader mindset is to even becoming an expert in something or being admired for something. That is hard for most people to do like
00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:50.709 Mira Brancu: obviously the iron man for you. It was both about
00:41:51.365 --> 00:41:59.820 Mira Brancu: the process of sitting with discomfort for long periods of time, and how you get there, as well as
00:41:59.980 --> 00:42:08.730 Mira Brancu: reaching this phenomenal expert outcome that most of us think we can't reach.
00:42:08.870 --> 00:42:10.680 Mira Brancu: And it's both
00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:18.730 Mira Brancu: right, I think, about you know, people who give me, you know, feedback about like
00:42:19.115 --> 00:42:30.134 Mira Brancu: you're so great at that, or how did you? You know, and I'm like I've been doing this for like 10 to 20 years practicing every single day. It didn't just come, and it wasn't easy most of the time.
00:42:30.410 --> 00:42:53.160 Ann B-E (she/her): Right. That's exactly right, and I think because there are so many people, and and some of them very well intended, some not who will tell us that there are quick fixes right? And I very clear like in the beginning of the book, that if this is, you're looking for tools and tips and tricks. This probably isn't the book for you, because I don't.
00:42:53.440 --> 00:43:10.860 Ann B-E (she/her): I don't see a singular thing as being the effective component of change. So I sometimes say to my clients like when we're talking about change, like just saying, Well, what thing can I do is like saying, How can I? You know. Let's try to
00:43:10.950 --> 00:43:25.780 Ann B-E (she/her): change the molten core temperature of the earth by rearranging the lawn furniture like it doesn't. You might think you're having an effect. But what we really need to do is dig more deeply into why these things are that way in the 1st place, and to your point, like
00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:33.550 Ann B-E (she/her): to start making that change, we have to find a at least one small way. We are
00:43:33.640 --> 00:43:46.129 Ann B-E (she/her): practicing that, getting uncomfortable, putting ourselves in spaces or just thinking, really challenging ourselves to think differently. Use a coach. Who's gonna say, wait a minute.
00:43:46.130 --> 00:44:06.790 Ann B-E (she/her): You told me that you wanted to get better at this, and yet you're also saying all these reasons why you had to take over that responsibility, you know. Which is it, you know? And what can we do differently in the future? People who can hold you accountable peers who can hold you accountable. I think we way under, utilize the people around us as coaches.
00:44:07.170 --> 00:44:12.600 Ann B-E (she/her): To help us stay on that task day in and day out.
00:44:12.890 --> 00:44:19.990 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious. Before we get to the ad break, what kind of person seeks out this kind of work.
00:44:21.350 --> 00:44:43.779 Ann B-E (she/her): Really good question. I will say that I think people come to it a couple of different ways. People come to parts of it. They're like I. Sometimes they're like, I'm on the verge of burning out, and I don't know what else to do. So help me right, how can I, how can I get out of this place? Sometimes they will be like, I need
00:44:43.780 --> 00:45:05.770 Ann B-E (she/her): to build a a better like. I know my goal is further away than I that I like. It's not gonna just happen. And I need to do some things differently. And then sometimes I'll get people who are really like I had a woman not too long ago who came to me. It was in a brand new job in a brand new role, and said.
00:45:06.060 --> 00:45:10.799 Ann B-E (she/her): I just think this model is exactly what I need to help me
00:45:10.910 --> 00:45:28.269 Ann B-E (she/her): start this role and lead this team in the right way, going forward so really can can differ. And one of the things I try to help people remember about it is you don't? I think the mission is really important, but otherwise it's not. It's not sequential. You can kind of pick up any part of it.
00:45:28.790 --> 00:45:48.599 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, excellent. Okay, we are at the Ad break. So we're going to take a moment to hear some of the other radio shows that you can listen to. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronco and our guest today, Dr. Ann. Bowers, Evangelista, author of The endurance leader, and we will be right back in just a moment.
00:47:33.980 --> 00:47:41.930 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Ann, be of the endurance leader.
00:47:42.180 --> 00:47:42.930 Mira Brancu: So
00:47:45.730 --> 00:47:52.159 Mira Brancu: what? What I want to sort of turn it into that you also include, which is so critical
00:47:52.300 --> 00:48:01.570 Mira Brancu: when you're thinking about a marathon or enduring anything else. Long term is how
00:48:01.710 --> 00:48:07.750 Mira Brancu: you are able to sustain that level of focus discipline
00:48:08.020 --> 00:48:20.449 Mira Brancu: constantly sort of like working on your habit. And I'll give an example that I don't. I have not codified, and I'm curious to hear how you have codified this
00:48:21.910 --> 00:48:24.779 Mira Brancu: over the last 6 to 7 years
00:48:24.910 --> 00:48:30.229 Mira Brancu: I have been building a company in addition to my day job, as you know.
00:48:30.510 --> 00:48:54.160 Mira Brancu: and I work nights. I work weekends. I work all the time, and people are like. Aren't you exhausted? How have you been able to do this for so long? Most people cannot sustain that level of energy, and the only response I generally have is, I have a lot of energy for things I'm interested in, you know, but the reality is.
00:48:54.610 --> 00:48:58.799 Mira Brancu: then I do pay attention to my body, and I do.
00:48:59.330 --> 00:49:06.729 Mira Brancu: Listen when I'm exhausted. That's it. It's over. I'm not doing any more, and I pay attention and closely enough
00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:34.080 Mira Brancu: to not push myself ever. I take my 9 h of sleep. Every night I work out in the morning, almost every day. That is like. I do not compromise right on those kinds of things. And you talk about that in your book around. This is a new term for me, periodization and recovery. So I'd love to hear more about what that actually looks like. How can people think about this implemented.
00:49:34.560 --> 00:49:49.860 Ann B-E (she/her): Great. I love that you are talking about discipline like that is the essence of discipline, and people know that on some level. But lots of people still believe in like the Brene brown, like, you know, exhaustion is status symbol, right? It is.
00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:50.210 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:49:50.210 --> 00:50:08.040 Ann B-E (she/her): It's there's no one who is benefiting from your exhaustion, least of all you and so you know, I love to ask people, and in the book I ask about. You know Lebron James, you know he sleeps 10 to 12 h out of every 24 h period, and he sleeps in a very climate. Controlled environment.
00:50:08.370 --> 00:50:35.029 Ann B-E (she/her): Is he lazy? I think most people would say, no right. It is what he needs to do to be able to produce the best possible outcome. And so what I believe around recovery is that it should be very intentional. And what I see people doing, and this is no offense to you, but like there's the whole notion of like people, just they hit a point of just hitting a wall, and then they feel burned out, and then they're resentful, right? You're not.
00:50:35.030 --> 00:50:35.390 Mira Brancu: Right.
00:50:35.390 --> 00:50:41.849 Ann B-E (she/her): But lots of people get to that point, and they're like, this is way too much. I can't believe I'm being asked of that which is all critical parts of burnout.
00:50:41.990 --> 00:51:05.560 Ann B-E (she/her): Instead of saying, I will intentionally take breaks at these junctures. I'm going to take my vacation. Lots of people plan their vacations, you know, that are really thinking longer. Term. Plan them well in advance, and they still look out for those moments where they need to take that time, and people say I can't take my vacation, you know it won't. It wouldn't work. I really challenge that mental model
00:51:05.785 --> 00:51:06.459 Ann B-E (she/her): because the only
00:51:06.460 --> 00:51:21.910 Ann B-E (she/her): person really stopping you. It's it's only when people feel like the the world will fall apart without me. And then, if I go and it doesn't, then what does that mean about me like I might actually be like replaceable, or like people could work around me.
00:51:21.910 --> 00:51:22.360 Mira Brancu: Right.
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:36.770 Ann B-E (she/her): So there's all of those elements. And then just real quickly on periodization. It's the notion in endurance athletics in particular, where you you kind of build up your abilities, and then you take some recovery.
00:51:37.070 --> 00:51:37.440 Mira Brancu: Yes.
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:44.379 Ann B-E (she/her): Finding that that that kind of cadence really builds your
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:56.170 Ann B-E (she/her): ability to perform at higher levels better than somebody who is just increasing their output kind of in a, you know, a 1-to-one correlation over time. And so
00:51:56.310 --> 00:52:03.609 Ann B-E (she/her): take recognizing, especially as we're building skills with our, you know. Again, we're not great at teaching this, either, as coaches like.
00:52:03.890 --> 00:52:10.610 Ann B-E (she/her): maybe we work on a different skill. We really focus on this skill for a month, and then let's take a break from that, and let's.
00:52:10.610 --> 00:52:11.419 Mira Brancu: Work on this other.
00:52:11.420 --> 00:52:25.830 Ann B-E (she/her): Thing to give you a chance, maybe a different level of success, maybe working a different part of your leadership assets or your brain. So these, these things can be really important to people building longevity.
00:52:26.110 --> 00:52:36.556 Mira Brancu: Oh, that is that's brilliant, and I need to start inserting some of that stuff in my own life. So that is the next question,
00:52:37.330 --> 00:52:38.920 Mira Brancu: what is like
00:52:39.040 --> 00:52:46.019 Mira Brancu: one or 2 immediate next steps that people can do to build that piece into their regimen, their discipline.
00:52:46.170 --> 00:52:59.879 Ann B-E (she/her): Yeah. So what I would say is, if you do not have a a recovery strategy, or you know. And again, this is different than taking a Spa day like that's lovely. But that is not a consistent plan. So
00:52:59.980 --> 00:53:27.129 Ann B-E (she/her): okay, we have a really hard project that we know we have to deliver at work for the next 6 weeks. I am going to intentionally take, you know, a long weekend, or I'm gonna take a a full 5 days off at the end of that, so that I can recover even things like boundaries at night. I will make sure that after 8 Pm. I do not check my emails anymore that you have to decide. They could be micro. They could be macro. But
00:53:27.210 --> 00:53:37.434 Ann B-E (she/her): pick a couple of things that you could do to take charge of your recovery, because no one will do it for you. So that's the 1st thing.
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:39.849 Ann B-E (she/her): the the second is
00:53:39.890 --> 00:53:50.979 Ann B-E (she/her): accountability. Right? So again, we are very accountable around our work products, but we're not really great about getting others to hold us accountable for taking
00:53:50.980 --> 00:54:16.870 Ann B-E (she/her): care of our recovery. And again, the language of self care. Yes, it's good, but this is this is like, think like an athlete, think like I need to perform at my best, and if I am not doing this, I will not be able to do that. So find somebody, whether it's a family member, or whether it's somebody at work, and you know or use an app. The apps are great for things like that to hold you accountable. So those are the strategies I'd recommend.
00:54:16.870 --> 00:54:26.229 Mira Brancu: Excellent, excellent! I love it. And if people want to learn more about you and work with you, where can they find you? What can they learn?
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:38.929 Ann B-E (she/her): Yes. Well, they can find me@www.theenduranceleader.com, which you can see right there. And I also have this book, the endurance leader. I will say that I have.
00:54:39.299 --> 00:55:00.540 Ann B-E (she/her): just as of yesterday, put up a self assessment to determine your level of endurance leader capacity. So you should be able to find it on the website. I don't. Unfortunately, I don't even know where it is. I have to. I have to make sure it's up. Pardon me, I might be speaking out of turn. We might not have released it yet, but it will be up later today.
00:55:00.540 --> 00:55:01.530 Mira Brancu: Exciting.
00:55:01.530 --> 00:55:11.109 Ann B-E (she/her): And I'm also@ww.lumos.com, which is another page, where you can find out more about my services and book time with me.
00:55:11.110 --> 00:55:16.009 Mira Brancu: Great, and Lumos is LLUM. os.com
00:55:16.510 --> 00:55:34.700 Mira Brancu: excellent. So the endurance leader pick up your copy. I have mine. It's excellent. In fact, I have both this copy and a digital copy, you know, just in case I'm out somewhere, and you know, just need to pick it up, read it, remind myself about the recovery piece.
00:55:34.700 --> 00:55:39.240 Ann B-E (she/her): Thank you very much. I also have it in the audible version, and I do that all the time with books.
00:55:39.240 --> 00:55:47.550 Mira Brancu: Amazing, amazing. So, audience, what did you take away? And more importantly, what is one small change.
00:55:48.500 --> 00:56:01.539 Mira Brancu: one small change? Remember those little atomic habits we just talked about that you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Ann. Share it with us on Linkedin and@talkradio.nyc, so we can cheer you on
00:56:02.338 --> 00:56:13.349 Mira Brancu: talk, radio is also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, twitch, apple spotify Amazon podcasts all over the place. So if today's episode resonated, for you
00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:37.079 Mira Brancu: share it with a colleague or leave a review. And if you're looking for more personalized support or leadership or team coaching, you can definitely reach out to Anne. You could also reach out to me gotowerscope.com is my website. The stuff that I talk about on this show is part of my research based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that I use to help
00:56:37.190 --> 00:56:41.996 Mira Brancu: socially conscious organizational misfits on their leadership journeys and
00:56:42.740 --> 00:57:10.560 Mira Brancu: thank you to talkradio Dot, Nyc. For hosting together. We will navigate the complexities of leadership and emerge stronger on the other side. Thank you for joining me and Dr. Ann bowers, evangelista today on this journey. This is Dr. Mara Branco, signing off until next time. Stay steady, stay present and keep building those hard skills, muscles, including the ones that Ann just shared with us today. Thank you all. Take care.
00:57:10.700 --> 00:57:11.750 Mira Brancu: bye.
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