EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Professor, Pastor, and Author, Douglas M. Gillette.
Douglas Gillette, has a master of religious studies degree from the University of Chicago and a master of divinity degree from the Chicago Theological Seminary. He taught in the Emeritus Program at Oakton College for nearly two decades as well as served as a pastor, pastoral counselor, and a Jungian-influenced life guide.
The bestselling author of several books, including King, Warrior, Magician, Lover coauthored with Robert Moore. His latest book is Soul Making - The Realization of the Mystical Life.
Through his own story of spiritual self-realization, Douglas explores the paradox that lies at the heart of the quest for union with the Divine. Those of us on the mystical path are each working on our souls to better reflect their Divine nature, yet we are already reflections of the Divine. To help you embrace this paradox, Douglas provides mythic stories of soul development and intuition from Maya and Pythagorean traditions, ancient Egyptian thought, and Zoroastrianism.
He shows how embracing the power of emotions like wonder, dread, and awe, provide a mirror that allows us to see ourselves as infinite and immortal people on finite and mortal adventures.
Tune in and share all of your questions and comments about having a mystical life on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
Segment 1
Sam Liebowitz explores how vulnerability within a supportive community can be a powerful catalyst for healing, emphasizing that since trauma often occurs through human relationships, it is through shared connection that we heal most deeply. He reflects on the importance of balancing individual and group work, highlighting the transformative potential of witnessing and being witnessed in a safe, intimate space. Joined by Douglas Gillette, they delve into the mystical path, discussing how glimpses of transcendence—whether through dreams, depth psychology, or shared presence—can bring meaning and comfort to everyday life.
Segment 2
Douglas Gillette shares that his connection to the mystical began in early childhood, sparked by a profound attraction to the moon and a lifelong sense of wonder and awe. He reflects on vivid experiences—including what he believes may be memories of pre-birth existence—describing a realm of light and unity that shaped his belief in reincarnation and the continuity of consciousness. Rather than adopting external beliefs, Gillette emphasizes grounding his spiritual writing in direct personal experience, encouraging others to honor the mystical glimpses they might otherwise suppress.
Segment 3
Sam and Douglas explore the idea that we are not here to escape the physical world, but rather to infuse it with divine energy by embodying creativity, awareness, and light. Douglas shares that true spiritual depth comes from acknowledging a larger context beyond the material, yet fully participating in life with an open, mystical orientation. His book Soul Making aims to evoke a sense of wonder and remembrance in readers, helping them reconnect with forgotten spiritual experiences and awaken to their transcendent nature—whether through reflection, depth psychology, or intentional practice.
Segment 4
Douglas Gillette shares that the unifying thread across traditions, disciplines, and spiritual systems is the human journey toward expanded awareness, soul realization, and eventual union with the divine. In a rapidly changing and often chaotic world, he encourages listeners to remember that this life is just one layer of a much larger spiritual reality—and that our role is to embody light, love, and meaning while grounded in this realm. His book Soul Making is meant to evoke wonder and inner remembrance, helping readers reconnect with their deeper nature and realize they are far more than what they seem.
00:00:45.610 --> 00:01:15.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Good morning. Good evening. Wherever you're tuning in from welcome to the conscious, consultant hour of awakening humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We've got another fascinating guest in store for you, and a wonderful show. I can't wait to bring him on. But first, st of course, we do have my blog from a couple of years ago.
00:01:15.520 --> 00:01:27.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just kind of going through them in order, and this one's a pretty good one. I like this one a lot. So let's get to it, because I really want to bring my guest on quick. So this blog is entitled
00:01:28.510 --> 00:01:35.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Vulnerability in community is the greatest greatest path of healing.
00:01:36.740 --> 00:01:41.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We have all experienced trauma, whether we realize it or not.
00:01:41.870 --> 00:01:45.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that trauma usually involves other people.
00:01:46.250 --> 00:01:48.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So we put up walls to feel safe.
00:01:49.090 --> 00:01:52.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We close ourselves off to connection.
00:01:53.730 --> 00:02:00.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to guard a wounded heart, and keep away from what might be dangerous situations.
00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:06.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for the pain of the trauma we have experienced drives our behavior
00:02:07.330 --> 00:02:10.199 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from deep in our nervous system.
00:02:10.440 --> 00:02:16.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and unwinding that trauma in those patterns requires deep work.
00:02:17.350 --> 00:02:24.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We often think that doing deep work means we have to dive into our past by ourselves or with a therapist.
00:02:25.630 --> 00:02:31.460 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yet if that is all we do. We are missing a great opportunity.
00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:40.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for when we do our work together in community, we can access something greater, okay.
00:02:41.140 --> 00:02:45.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sometimes far deeper than healing in isolation.
00:02:46.130 --> 00:02:49.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Since our trauma usually comes from other people.
00:02:49.780 --> 00:02:56.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we include other people in our healing, we can greatly accelerate our process.
00:02:57.300 --> 00:03:01.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for every time we are in a safe container with others.
00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:06.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and we can share our wounds.
00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:10.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We can feel not so alone with our pain.
00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:17.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and seeing others being vulnerable, helps us to be vulnerable with them
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:25.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that shared vulnerable space is the most intimate space to cultivate.
00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:30.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In that shared intimacy we can find wholeness.
00:03:31.260 --> 00:03:39.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a wholeness that only comes from a sense of community, from feeling safe with others.
00:03:40.040 --> 00:03:43.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and having the courage to speak our truth.
00:03:44.430 --> 00:03:48.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: If we speak our truth, and there is no one to hear it.
00:03:48.410 --> 00:03:54.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How can we feel validated to share our truth with others
00:03:54.270 --> 00:04:01.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: who do the same creates a bond that transcends families and friends.
00:04:02.540 --> 00:04:07.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It brings us to a deeper level of connection that we never knew was possible.
00:04:07.720 --> 00:04:15.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: feeding our hearts and our souls as it disrupts the patterns that caused our trauma.
00:04:15.870 --> 00:04:21.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We are also very different. Yet in this way we are the same
00:04:23.070 --> 00:04:26.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to feel the acceptance, the love.
00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:33.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the connection with others who are also on their healing journey is beyond words.
00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:40.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It must be experienced to understand how profound it can be
00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet to be vulnerable with people can be scary.
00:04:46.390 --> 00:04:52.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet it is the path to a joy that fills us in the depths of our souls.
00:04:53.730 --> 00:04:59.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Is the is not the reward for that kind of vulnerability worth it.
00:04:59.940 --> 00:05:04.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can you find a community that can support you on your healing path?
00:05:07.110 --> 00:05:12.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I wrote this post a while ago because.
00:05:13.936 --> 00:05:26.393 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know. My wife and I hold groups sometimes, and and we do this working do healing work in groups, and and we also work with people individually. My wife's a therapist, as most people know.
00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:34.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And people ask like, why, you know, do a group over just working one-on-one with someone?
00:05:36.110 --> 00:05:43.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and I've really thought about it, because I've experienced this sort of group work for many years, and it's been 11 years now.
00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:55.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and I really see the I see the aspects that unfold when you're doing group work together
00:05:56.040 --> 00:06:00.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that just aren't there when you're doing it, one on one or by yourself.
00:06:03.690 --> 00:06:07.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and what I often say to people is just.
00:06:08.950 --> 00:06:15.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: our trauma happens with other people, friends, families, strangers, neighbors.
00:06:16.190 --> 00:06:24.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So when our healing involves other people as well, they can be sort of surrogates for all these different people.
00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:32.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and that actually increases the speed with which we can heal with which we can come back to wholeness.
00:06:34.520 --> 00:06:41.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And so, while individual work can be very deep and is very important to do.
00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I really see there as a need for a balance
00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to both, do individual work and group work together
00:06:50.440 --> 00:06:55.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so that we can go very internal. But then we can also work with others.
00:06:56.400 --> 00:07:05.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you know sometimes that working with others is not that pleasant sometimes, being in a group. And there are other people there that trigger us.
00:07:05.750 --> 00:07:10.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: which is actually a gift, but can be very uncomfortable in the moment.
00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:18.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and sometimes somebody can do something unconsciously, not realizing how it affects someone else, and it can almost re-traumatize them.
00:07:19.350 --> 00:07:28.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But then that incident can become the the fuel for going deep into a process.
00:07:31.550 --> 00:07:35.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's just so many aspects to it. And and
00:07:35.940 --> 00:07:42.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've probably written about it before, but not quite this way. And so I really felt the need to
00:07:43.370 --> 00:07:46.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: really express the importance.
00:07:47.780 --> 00:07:53.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Finding a safe community to do our healing work in.
00:07:53.530 --> 00:07:57.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: where we can really be vulnerable with others who are vulnerable with us.
00:07:59.270 --> 00:08:03.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and sometimes the magic I've seen happen is how
00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:13.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 2 people show up to the group as strangers, and sometime during the process they start sharing their trauma with each other and find out they have a very similar trauma.
00:08:14.090 --> 00:08:23.669 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And suddenly they don't feel so alone. It's like, Oh, there's somebody else in the world who feels exactly the way I do. And just that intimacy of connection
00:08:24.550 --> 00:08:27.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is so healing in and of itself.
00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:35.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We don't have to feel like we're all alone in the world anymore. And sometimes that's the greatest gift we get
00:08:35.929 --> 00:08:38.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: from doing our healing work with others.
00:08:40.230 --> 00:08:44.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's our blog post for this week.
00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:50.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Again, that's entitled Vulnerability in Community is the greatest path of healing.
00:08:51.070 --> 00:08:57.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and of course you can always find my blog on my personally branded website, the conscious consultant
00:08:57.850 --> 00:09:01.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: dot com, or on the station's website.
00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:18.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: talkradio dot Nyc slash blog. And don't forget, if you like my blog posts. I do have a whole book called Everyday Awakening, which you can get at all, Major Booksellers, that you might be interested in as well.
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: all right. It is now my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show.
00:09:24.910 --> 00:09:28.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Pastor, teacher, and author, Douglas Gillette
00:09:29.180 --> 00:09:54.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Douglas has a master of religious studies degree from the University of Chicago, and a Master of Divinity degree from the Chicago Theological Seminary. He's taught in the Emeritus program at Oakton College for nearly 2 decades as well as served as a pastor, pastoral counselor, and a union influenced lifeguide. I'm definitely going to ask him about that.
00:09:54.280 --> 00:10:20.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The best-selling author of several books, including King, warrior, magician, lover, co-authored with Robert Moore. And today we're going to talk about his latest book, soul making the realization of a mystical life. I have it right here. Through his own story of spiritual self-realization, Douglass explores that paradox that lies at the heart of the quest for union with the divine.
00:10:20.430 --> 00:10:22.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Those of us on the mystical path
00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:45.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: are each working on our souls to better reflect their divine nature. Yet we are already reflections of the divine to help you embrace this paradox. Douglas provides mythic stories of soul development and intuition from Maya and Pythagorean traditions. Ancient Egyptian Thought and Zoroastrianism Welcome to the conscious consultant hour, Doug.
00:10:45.990 --> 00:10:48.350 Douglas M. Gillette: Thanks, Sam. It's great to be here.
00:10:48.350 --> 00:10:49.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's more.
00:10:49.130 --> 00:10:50.040 Douglas M. Gillette: Oh yes!
00:10:50.040 --> 00:11:04.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's wonderful to have you wonderful to have, you know. This is why I do the show to talk about topics like this, and and especially, you know, I just got booked the other night, but I was looking at the back cover.
00:11:06.810 --> 00:11:22.959 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and there was this just these 2 lines that made me like, yes, this is like the person I love to have. But how do we manifest our transcendent nature in everyday life? How can we construct our lives in the material world. So they reflect the divine nature of our souls.
00:11:23.280 --> 00:11:27.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you know, that's the point. That's what really gets me is.
00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:43.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how do we take these spiritual, mystical, divine things, divine? A paths, journeys, effort.
00:11:43.530 --> 00:11:49.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But how do we bring it into our day-to-day life, so that we have a better day-to-day life.
00:11:49.980 --> 00:12:04.669 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, I don't think there's a simple answer to that that I have, anyway. But I and people often, myself, included experience at least 2 levels of reality
00:12:05.260 --> 00:12:19.819 Douglas M. Gillette: more actually. But 2 basic levels of reality, this level with all the wonder, beauty, pleasure, joy, but also all the pain and and suffering and struggle
00:12:20.737 --> 00:12:43.600 Douglas M. Gillette: and then at least a layer above, and I think many in which they feel we can feel expansive, one with the All, and beyond that, in my view with the divine, they seem to be so. These 2 levels seem to be so out of sync with each other.
00:12:43.780 --> 00:12:47.540 Douglas M. Gillette: and I think that is real.
00:12:47.870 --> 00:12:57.880 Douglas M. Gillette: They are at at a certain level of consciousness and being. But there are many ways.
00:12:58.040 --> 00:13:02.320 Douglas M. Gillette: There are spiritual disciplines. For example, as you know.
00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:14.229 Douglas M. Gillette: meditation techniques and and what you're talking about on your blog and so forth, that people can use to to bring this stuff more
00:13:14.680 --> 00:13:16.490 Douglas M. Gillette: into conjunction.
00:13:18.750 --> 00:13:22.039 Douglas M. Gillette: I myself have largely not done
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:29.350 Douglas M. Gillette: spiritual exercises. To tell you the truth, I've done. I've done a lot of depth psychological work.
00:13:30.370 --> 00:13:35.626 Douglas M. Gillette: Which is similar in many ways, but but anyway
00:13:36.400 --> 00:13:43.779 Douglas M. Gillette: But most of my experiences of transcendence have come just just shown up
00:13:44.835 --> 00:13:52.294 Douglas M. Gillette: sometimes music, thinking, sharing. As you talk so eloquently about
00:13:53.533 --> 00:13:58.250 Douglas M. Gillette: visual. I mean, there are all kinds of triggers that can. Can.
00:13:58.690 --> 00:14:01.980 Douglas M. Gillette: You know it's it's like that higher level
00:14:02.410 --> 00:14:09.409 Douglas M. Gillette: is just. It's like the corner of your eye. You could just turn your head if you could just see. And it's right there.
00:14:09.580 --> 00:14:10.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, right.
00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:11.310 Douglas M. Gillette: There.
00:14:12.285 --> 00:14:17.797 Douglas M. Gillette: So I think there are many techniques. None of them
00:14:18.860 --> 00:14:22.320 Douglas M. Gillette: are, gonna in my view, produce complete
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:26.529 Douglas M. Gillette: convergence or conjunction between these levels.
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:32.660 Douglas M. Gillette: But I think that's the way it's supposed to be.
00:14:33.160 --> 00:14:39.210 Douglas M. Gillette: I don't think we're here only to get out of here.
00:14:39.550 --> 00:14:40.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:14:40.830 --> 00:14:47.160 Douglas M. Gillette: You know. I I think we're here to live it for some reason, and that is the
00:14:48.060 --> 00:14:56.349 Douglas M. Gillette: but living it with the awareness that we are at our core is transcendent.
00:14:57.110 --> 00:15:02.839 Douglas M. Gillette: is a whole different way of living from thinking that we're trapped here.
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:03.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:15:05.430 --> 00:15:15.540 Douglas M. Gillette: And you were talking about that, too, on your in your blog briefly, recently, couple weeks ago.
00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:20.251 Douglas M. Gillette: I mean, I'm going through a kind of a dark period in some ways.
00:15:21.332 --> 00:15:28.197 Douglas M. Gillette: with not my wife, but other things in the family and
00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:32.449 Douglas M. Gillette: And I had a just a dream
00:15:33.060 --> 00:15:40.889 Douglas M. Gillette: that I I won't go to in in great detail. But I was in a play. I was in a university.
00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:42.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:15:44.050 --> 00:15:47.550 Douglas M. Gillette: Everything was filled with light.
00:15:47.710 --> 00:15:50.010 Douglas M. Gillette: It wasn't just sunlight, it was light, light.
00:15:50.020 --> 00:15:51.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm, hmm.
00:15:51.390 --> 00:15:59.970 Douglas M. Gillette: And there's more, there's a lot more to it. But but my point is that
00:16:00.830 --> 00:16:07.600 Douglas M. Gillette: having had that dream, it's not the 1st one, but it's certainly really dramatic.
00:16:07.790 --> 00:16:09.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A powerful one for you.
00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:14.746 Douglas M. Gillette: Powerful a big dream, as Young would call it.
00:16:15.910 --> 00:16:18.820 Douglas M. Gillette: that just keeps washing over me.
00:16:19.698 --> 00:16:21.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that when I'm.
00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.700 Douglas M. Gillette: Discouraged, frustrated.
00:16:25.940 --> 00:16:33.370 Douglas M. Gillette: sad. Whatever about that part of the family situation that that dream is right there, and it just floods right back in.
00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:35.720 Douglas M. Gillette: and I can.
00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:39.439 Douglas M. Gillette: The Egyptians had a saying
00:16:40.650 --> 00:16:47.599 Douglas M. Gillette: that God has given us the gift of the awareness of our deaths, and what lies beyond it.
00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:48.980 Douglas M. Gillette: Beyond them.
00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:50.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:16:50.580 --> 00:17:01.460 Douglas M. Gillette: And that sounds like, okay. But this stream was indicating clearly an experience of.
00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.910 Douglas M. Gillette: I think, a post biological me.
00:17:05.910 --> 00:17:07.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, experience.
00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:13.890 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah. And and I see how wise the Egyptian saying was.
00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:14.839 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:24.210 Douglas M. Gillette: I mean it. It's not just that it urges us not to be procrastinators, but it's also that
00:17:24.349 --> 00:17:29.750 Douglas M. Gillette: it's it's saying, earthly life.
00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:34.780 Douglas M. Gillette: mortal mortal mortal life on this level is
00:17:36.340 --> 00:17:46.699 Douglas M. Gillette: incomparably more meaningful, more enhanced, more joyful, more centered, more. I mean all the words that you can use. It's it's just
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:55.450 Douglas M. Gillette: almost occulted by the hidden by the light that lies just.
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:57.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Just on the veil.
00:17:57.360 --> 00:18:09.450 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, just beyond the veil. So there, there's a there's a practical. If you want to put it that way, effect that having these things flood into your consciousness.
00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:14.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. That's a great. That's a great example. I'm really.
00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:22.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I can really appreciate that. It's it's when we we have that feeling when we're reminded of the
00:18:22.430 --> 00:18:32.661 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what's beyond. This physical world somehow makes dealing with the physical challenges a little bit easier. So we gotta take our 1st break when we come back.
00:18:33.170 --> 00:18:56.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I just want to ask you a little bit about your background, because this is not what you would say is a normal course of endeavor for most people. So I'd just be curious as to how you got on this path of these studies and and and and this curiosity around it, and and how you came to write a book all around having a mystical life. Okay.
00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:56.930 Douglas M. Gillette: Hmm.
00:18:57.470 --> 00:19:16.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday 12 noon to one Pm. Eastern time right here on Talkradio, Dot, Nyc. And all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest, Douglas Gillette, author of the Book Soul, making in just a moment.
00:21:02.990 --> 00:21:09.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious, consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Douglas Gillette.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:16.417 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: author of the book Soul, making the realization of a mystical life. So,
00:21:17.250 --> 00:21:34.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Douglas, I'm curious, like, what got you initially involved in things mystical and spiritual, because that's not, I mean, although I've been into this stuff most of my life. Most people I find, haven't been interested in these topics most of their life.
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:40.920 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah. Well, I believe I was born with it.
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:21:42.384 --> 00:21:50.889 Douglas M. Gillette: My early. Some of my earliest memories are I'm 2 years old. Actually, I think I have a memory of my birth night, too.
00:21:50.890 --> 00:21:51.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Boom.
00:21:51.610 --> 00:21:58.060 Douglas M. Gillette: But my earliest memories that I can say are for sure memories.
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:07.150 Douglas M. Gillette: I'm 2 years old, and it's bedtime, and I
00:22:07.830 --> 00:22:15.020 Douglas M. Gillette: won't go to bed without going from window to window to window in the house, looking for the moon.
00:22:15.800 --> 00:22:16.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:22:16.540 --> 00:22:17.710 Douglas M. Gillette: So the moon.
00:22:19.460 --> 00:22:23.879 Douglas M. Gillette: Well, I actually think it was, as I said, born with it. But the moon started it.
00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:24.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: For me.
00:22:24.730 --> 00:22:29.699 Douglas M. Gillette: The kind of what about it? Well, the beauty.
00:22:29.860 --> 00:22:36.290 Douglas M. Gillette: a sense of mystery and awe and wonder and peace, and
00:22:36.540 --> 00:22:50.000 Douglas M. Gillette: I felt there was something that the I didn't think this at the time, but I felt, and that there was something behind what the moon was triggering in me.
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:58.520 Douglas M. Gillette: and that started it, and then I've lived my life backwards in a sense.
00:23:00.130 --> 00:23:05.509 Douglas M. Gillette: I I didn't go on vacations.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:14.510 Douglas M. Gillette: I traveled when I when I traveled in my youth and early into into my forties. Fifties
00:23:15.050 --> 00:23:17.199 Douglas M. Gillette: all over the world.
00:23:17.510 --> 00:23:28.700 Douglas M. Gillette: And yeah, and and in special felt tremendous power of special places, mostly in Mexico.
00:23:29.313 --> 00:23:33.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Ruins of and so forth. The city, the ancient cities.
00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:44.780 Douglas M. Gillette: And I just I don't know. I've structured my life so that I had the time and energy
00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:52.599 Douglas M. Gillette: to follow my my deep passions, which are be is what we're talking about the the mystical life.
00:23:52.790 --> 00:23:56.360 Douglas M. Gillette: I never thought of myself as a mystic. Actually.
00:23:56.993 --> 00:24:04.284 Douglas M. Gillette: I thought most people or everybody at some point had these experiences, and
00:24:05.290 --> 00:24:13.810 Douglas M. Gillette: it's only later in life that I realized that if they do, if most people have these experiences, they they shut them out.
00:24:14.560 --> 00:24:18.660 Douglas M. Gillette: Press them, or they just say, Oh, well, that's you know, and go on.
00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:30.910 Douglas M. Gillette: And for me these were all gates or openings, or doorways to a much, a fabulous.
00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:42.829 Douglas M. Gillette: and beyond that reality that that our reality here in this little sliver is a segment of, or part of, but by no means a whole thing.
00:24:43.320 --> 00:24:51.439 Douglas M. Gillette: And so I mean it. Just it just happened. And as it was happening, I started structuring my life
00:24:51.760 --> 00:25:03.550 Douglas M. Gillette: around it. But I I was born with this, I think this desire to ex- expand, expand.
00:25:03.550 --> 00:25:15.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So kind of innate. So let me ask you, do you believe in reincarnation? Do you think this is something that that sort of pre-existed your existence here.
00:25:15.250 --> 00:25:23.400 Douglas M. Gillette: I certainly I would say that for me. I think it's real reincarnation.
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:24.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:30.898 Douglas M. Gillette: I don't know for sure from personal experience, and I try to
00:25:31.870 --> 00:25:42.289 Douglas M. Gillette: I try to base all of my writing, whether it's in the depth psychological field history of Religions, field or spirituality, as in in the present book
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:49.869 Douglas M. Gillette: on my actual experiences, so I never borrow anybody else's purported experiences.
00:25:49.970 --> 00:25:57.459 Douglas M. Gillette: So I would say that I have had experiences that seem like they are memories of former wives.
00:25:57.460 --> 00:25:58.449 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, okay.
00:25:58.450 --> 00:26:01.119 Douglas M. Gillette: Or maybe even of future lives.
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:08.300 Douglas M. Gillette: So believe in is not, I would say I.
00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:11.009 Douglas M. Gillette: I strongly suspect. Yes.
00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:12.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm, hmm.
00:26:12.430 --> 00:26:17.048 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah. And and part of that is from the these
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:27.039 Douglas M. Gillette: experiences of other lives. And part of it is my my birth, birth, night thing, and I remember
00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:29.989 Douglas M. Gillette: if that's the word, for I think it's some memory.
00:26:30.010 --> 00:26:30.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:26:31.476 --> 00:26:38.930 Douglas M. Gillette: Lying in the bassinet in a darkened room facing the viewing window and feeling
00:26:39.070 --> 00:26:49.370 Douglas M. Gillette: paralyzed, as babies are kind of little newborns, and I'm remembering where I was before I came here.
00:26:49.670 --> 00:26:50.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.619 Douglas M. Gillette: And I it was the immediate
00:26:54.820 --> 00:27:03.389 Douglas M. Gillette: preceding thing. I don't know what was before that, but the immediate preceding thing before my birth was, I'm in a vast.
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.779 Douglas M. Gillette: perhaps infinite space in a ball of light.
00:27:08.100 --> 00:27:27.399 Douglas M. Gillette: and there are many, many bubbles or balls of light around me, and we're all together, and there's a warmth and and joy, and I'm remembering that. And then I have the thought, not in English, of course, but animals think without words too.
00:27:27.690 --> 00:27:29.610 Douglas M. Gillette: Then I have the thought.
00:27:30.590 --> 00:27:38.330 Douglas M. Gillette: what is this place? It's so cold I can't move, it's so heavy, and I think oh.
00:27:38.950 --> 00:27:47.860 Douglas M. Gillette: that's where I was in these bubbles of light kind of descending. And I thought, Okay.
00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:56.940 Douglas M. Gillette: I'm gonna forget all that and be a baby. And in that moment I became a baby.
00:27:57.360 --> 00:27:58.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow!
00:27:59.470 --> 00:28:01.190 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow! Wow!
00:28:01.800 --> 00:28:04.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's interesting. You know. I've I've heard
00:28:04.750 --> 00:28:10.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of a lot of instances of children sort of remembering
00:28:10.270 --> 00:28:16.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what it was like before. As a matter of fact, a friend was telling me the story
00:28:16.910 --> 00:28:20.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of her
00:28:20.140 --> 00:28:34.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: niece and nephew her sister was telling her they had the you know baby monitors right, and they had the girl. She was like 2 or 3 years old, and then they had the newborn son.
00:28:34.590 --> 00:28:36.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and the girl was like.
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:48.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can I go see? You know little Johnny, or whatever his name is? I have to talk to him. I have to talk to him, and and she was very adamant about it, and they were a little concerned. But they were like, Okay, okay, you can go in the room and talk to him.
00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:54.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and they were listening on the baby monitor, and she goes to her little brother and goes.
00:28:54.870 --> 00:29:04.209 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: listen, I need you to tell God, I'm okay. I'm starting to forget. But I'm okay. Please tell him I'm okay.
00:29:04.775 --> 00:29:06.470 Douglas M. Gillette: I'm starting to.
00:29:06.470 --> 00:29:07.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Forget.
00:29:07.390 --> 00:29:12.460 Douglas M. Gillette: Yes, yes, and that that wow! And then
00:29:12.610 --> 00:29:24.279 Douglas M. Gillette: some of us, anyway, begin to remember bit by bit. And that's another source of, or an additional source of the mystical life that I've had.
00:29:24.280 --> 00:29:31.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful. Okay, we we gotta take our next break when we come back. I wanna
00:29:31.470 --> 00:29:35.301 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: talk about what does it mean to have a mystical life.
00:29:36.020 --> 00:29:40.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and I actually want to get back to what you were saying before about
00:29:40.460 --> 00:29:43.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we're not here to escape this life
00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:50.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because I have my own particular view of it that's shifted over many, many years. So I'd like to get into that with you. Okay.
00:29:52.150 --> 00:30:11.829 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious, consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Douglas Gillette, author of the book, Soul, making a wonderful book. Highly recommend it kind of thick. It's a good reading project for the summer, and we'll be right back with more in just a moment.
00:31:47.050 --> 00:31:53.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So so, Douglas, back at the 1st segment of the show you you kind of made a comment about how?
00:31:56.080 --> 00:32:09.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I guess, in your your experiences and in your your research, that you feel how like we're not here to escape this life necessarily. And and it was kind of interesting to hear that comment, because in the past
00:32:10.570 --> 00:32:15.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I had studied with different spiritual teachers and mystery schools and all that stuff.
00:32:16.090 --> 00:32:17.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And
00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:26.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a lot of those people were like, this is my last lifetime. After this I'm going straight back to Source, and I can't wait to get out of here, and that kind of a thing.
00:32:27.150 --> 00:32:33.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and you know they talk about spiritual ascension, you know, ascending out of the body.
00:32:35.800 --> 00:32:41.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and I've come over the last 10 years or so to more feel like
00:32:41.800 --> 00:32:57.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we're not here to ascend so much as we are to descend these spiritual energies and bring them into this world so that we can create a more beautiful world around us.
00:32:57.722 --> 00:33:01.590 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So it sounds like you might have a similar kind of feeling.
00:33:02.090 --> 00:33:05.380 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, I I do. I I would say.
00:33:06.070 --> 00:33:09.639 Douglas M. Gillette: about the escape part, yes and no.
00:33:10.040 --> 00:33:20.670 Douglas M. Gillette: A. A life lived without that awareness of the larger context, which is apparently infinite and wondrous.
00:33:21.514 --> 00:33:29.070 Douglas M. Gillette: As we talked earlier in the show is a life lived in in
00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:35.189 Douglas M. Gillette: personality, spiritual poverty, I think.
00:33:35.490 --> 00:33:38.090 Douglas M. Gillette: to think that we're just here.
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:48.869 Douglas M. Gillette: I I have not, through choice, but through temperament innate, I think, been a creator
00:33:49.481 --> 00:34:00.789 Douglas M. Gillette: art and music and thought, and you know, writing and and and I think a lot of people are. The the creating.
00:34:01.510 --> 00:34:15.110 Douglas M. Gillette: The creating is a large part I for has been for me, of of bringing that higher reality.
00:34:15.389 --> 00:34:17.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: In into this one.
00:34:18.604 --> 00:34:27.519 Douglas M. Gillette: And so, and also I I think it is the irradiation of this realm in my life
00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:30.679 Douglas M. Gillette: that has made my life magical
00:34:30.870 --> 00:34:41.949 Douglas M. Gillette: and has attracted to me the things that pertain to me that I wished for or envisioned.
00:34:43.552 --> 00:34:46.917 Douglas M. Gillette: So there there is that
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:50.219 Douglas M. Gillette: but I at the same time.
00:34:50.739 --> 00:34:53.400 Douglas M. Gillette: and it's real. I think we're here
00:34:53.550 --> 00:35:10.099 Douglas M. Gillette: to about 10 or 12 different at least, purposes. But for being here, and not everybody has the same purpose. But we're here for real and to be here. I think.
00:35:10.210 --> 00:35:12.189 Douglas M. Gillette: however, as I said.
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:22.809 Douglas M. Gillette: we're most here most fully here, authentically here, beautifully here, if we are aware of the larger context.
00:35:22.810 --> 00:35:23.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:35:23.570 --> 00:35:27.729 Douglas M. Gillette: The expansive and the light filled context.
00:35:28.380 --> 00:35:33.919 Douglas M. Gillette: As I've gotten older, I have come
00:35:34.240 --> 00:35:41.059 Douglas M. Gillette: more and more to feel like, Okay, I mean, there's more
00:35:41.290 --> 00:35:45.509 Douglas M. Gillette: I would like to do. There's more I feel called to do.
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.769 Douglas M. Gillette: At the same time, I'm getting a little tired.
00:35:51.910 --> 00:35:53.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:35:53.350 --> 00:35:55.000 Douglas M. Gillette: Of the world as it is.
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:56.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No, no, no.
00:35:56.620 --> 00:36:06.780 Douglas M. Gillette: And and so I'm I'm I feel I'm not. It's not a conscious effort. I feel myself withdrawing.
00:36:08.250 --> 00:36:13.869 Douglas M. Gillette: Disengaging as much as I can. I mean, I'm not intending it. It just is happening.
00:36:13.870 --> 00:36:15.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right, right.
00:36:15.010 --> 00:36:19.052 Douglas M. Gillette: And I think the dream that I mentioned
00:36:19.600 --> 00:36:23.530 Douglas M. Gillette: earlier of of this light filled.
00:36:24.200 --> 00:36:31.170 Douglas M. Gillette: quote unquote university, in the truest sense of the word is
00:36:32.040 --> 00:36:35.789 Douglas M. Gillette: that and some other things are assigned that I'm getting ready.
00:36:37.330 --> 00:36:38.469 Douglas M. Gillette: To leave.
00:36:39.980 --> 00:36:41.310 Douglas M. Gillette: And to move on.
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:43.339 Douglas M. Gillette: So I think
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:53.090 Douglas M. Gillette: all of the levels. And I think there are multiple. We're just kind of simplifying it to 2 right now, are real.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:37:02.810 Douglas M. Gillette: and for a reason that I believe is ultimately maybe not obviously, but ultimately benevolent.
00:37:03.560 --> 00:37:04.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:37:05.220 --> 00:37:11.839 Douglas M. Gillette: That leads to our transcendent or transfigured
00:37:12.930 --> 00:37:20.410 Douglas M. Gillette: being at at higher registers of us. So.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:29.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm I'm curious. There are people I know, who who are, are big what you call non dualists, right? Who who
00:37:30.090 --> 00:37:32.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like everything, is one, and and
00:37:33.390 --> 00:37:50.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: some of them have this sort of attitude. Well, everything is perfect, like if the universe is perfect and everything is perfect, just maybe from our human perspective. We don't see the perfection in it, but everything is perfect. I'm curious. Do you subscribe to that philosophy?
00:37:50.700 --> 00:37:52.450 Douglas M. Gillette: Again, yes and no.
00:37:53.285 --> 00:37:53.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:37:53.700 --> 00:37:57.949 Douglas M. Gillette: I think ultimately everything is the way.
00:37:58.080 --> 00:38:03.410 Douglas M. Gillette: and I'm going to use the word God or the divine intends it to be
00:38:03.550 --> 00:38:15.289 Douglas M. Gillette: for ultimately benevolent purposes. However, down here in this sliver of reality. It doesn't feel like that.
00:38:15.310 --> 00:38:16.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:38:16.110 --> 00:38:19.820 Douglas M. Gillette: And there are choices that we have to make
00:38:20.310 --> 00:38:25.750 Douglas M. Gillette: for. Admittedly, they're often complicated, but for light
00:38:26.770 --> 00:38:31.549 Douglas M. Gillette: versus darkness, good versus evil, kindness versus cruelty.
00:38:33.130 --> 00:38:46.659 Douglas M. Gillette: and let let me just say, we did not. We humans, this, our version of humans did not reach the apex of the evolutionary mountain
00:38:47.570 --> 00:38:49.199 Douglas M. Gillette: by being nice.
00:38:50.590 --> 00:38:51.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:53.550 Douglas M. Gillette: We are the fiercest
00:38:54.205 --> 00:39:01.329 Douglas M. Gillette: in our animal natures we're the fiercest, most relentless, and even cruelest species on the planet.
00:39:02.766 --> 00:39:07.050 Douglas M. Gillette: With the possible exception of cats. No, I script.
00:39:09.140 --> 00:39:11.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, my! My engineer might take exception.
00:39:12.034 --> 00:39:14.399 Douglas M. Gillette: It's a joke. It's a joke.
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:15.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's a joke.
00:39:16.670 --> 00:39:20.719 Douglas M. Gillette: So yeah, there there is the animal thing.
00:39:21.850 --> 00:39:27.400 Douglas M. Gillette: And then there's the animal thing tinged with intelligence.
00:39:27.720 --> 00:39:36.100 Douglas M. Gillette: And and also we've inherited our quote unquote positive characteristics from our from animals too.
00:39:36.100 --> 00:39:36.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:48.939 Douglas M. Gillette: The chimpanzees, and so forth, and the common ancestor of humans and chimps, and so that that was there too, and we, I think, are called upon
00:39:49.910 --> 00:39:58.379 Douglas M. Gillette: to magnify or enhance that part of the spectrum of what we are.
00:40:00.740 --> 00:40:07.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious. First, st I mean, this book is a wonderful book. How long did it take you to write it?
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:20.000 Douglas M. Gillette: if you leave out the editing, and so forth, and so on. The work with the publisher. The actual writing was probably 6 months
00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:27.319 Douglas M. Gillette: maybe less. But while I was writing it I became the full time
00:40:28.154 --> 00:40:31.960 Douglas M. Gillette: daytime, Nanny, for our newborn granddaughter.
00:40:33.410 --> 00:40:36.199 Douglas M. Gillette: So it actually took longer than that.
00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:37.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Got it. Got it.
00:40:37.150 --> 00:40:37.530 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah.
00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:48.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I mean, you've written several books before this. What was the inspiration or the impetus to to say like, why write a book around the mystical life.
00:40:49.676 --> 00:40:52.760 Douglas M. Gillette: Because that is my life.
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:53.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:40:53.540 --> 00:41:01.033 Douglas M. Gillette: And all the other things I've written in the areas of deaf psychology and couples work, and and
00:41:01.560 --> 00:41:11.090 Douglas M. Gillette: the book on Maya spirituality, the Shaman secret. All of that. All of it flows from what
00:41:11.210 --> 00:41:13.149 Douglas M. Gillette: is in the new book.
00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:19.280 Douglas M. Gillette: I don't know. I just I just why write it now.
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:20.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well.
00:41:20.680 --> 00:41:40.358 Douglas M. Gillette: Probably because I had a lot of other things to do and say and helping that I wanted to do through the books on depth, psychology and couples counseling and and expanding people's hearts and minds to view.
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:51.430 Douglas M. Gillette: the Maya in particular, as an important source of wisdom. I had a lot of things to do, and this is my life.
00:41:51.560 --> 00:42:03.439 Douglas M. Gillette: I mean, obviously not the whole of it. But this is the core. The the soul making is the core of my spiritual and mortal journey.
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what do you hope people get from reading this book.
00:42:07.210 --> 00:42:15.140 Douglas M. Gillette: What I really hope they get most is this sense of
00:42:16.270 --> 00:42:18.919 Douglas M. Gillette: that they feel evoked by it.
00:42:19.270 --> 00:42:22.230 Douglas M. Gillette: and that they reach that threshold
00:42:22.780 --> 00:42:35.660 Douglas M. Gillette: of feeling and thinking and life experience where there's a breakthrough into the higher dimensions I hope they get.
00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:42.920 Douglas M. Gillette: I hope this enhances and maybe triggers their realization
00:42:44.980 --> 00:42:48.080 Douglas M. Gillette: that we are more than what we seem to be here.
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:49.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mean.
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:58.730 Douglas M. Gillette: And that that fills them with joy, exaltation, wonder, awe, gratitude.
00:42:59.730 --> 00:43:03.070 Douglas M. Gillette: and many other things, and ultimately love.
00:43:03.380 --> 00:43:04.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:43:04.160 --> 00:43:09.609 Douglas M. Gillette: For themselves and and for others, as far as that is possible in this
00:43:10.170 --> 00:43:13.849 Douglas M. Gillette: bit of react. So I hope they have an experience of the divine.
00:43:14.020 --> 00:43:23.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Gotcha. And and so you feel that's possible without quote, unquote, having spiritual practices, whether you don't really have a spiritual practice that you know.
00:43:23.070 --> 00:43:36.910 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, I do. I do, because the book invites people to reflect on experiences that they may have written off or ignored, or that that are similar to the experiences I recount here.
00:43:37.670 --> 00:43:42.479 Douglas M. Gillette: I do think for many, many people. I don't know if it's most or not.
00:43:45.274 --> 00:43:54.490 Douglas M. Gillette: that spiritual practice, depth, psychology, spiritual practice of it. Things you were talking about in your blog
00:43:55.470 --> 00:44:00.490 Douglas M. Gillette: are probably necessary.
00:44:01.080 --> 00:44:06.649 Douglas M. Gillette: Or yeah, I think they're probably necessary for many, many people.
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:14.210 Douglas M. Gillette: My, the the book is not a
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:19.739 Douglas M. Gillette: how to exactly. You know it's supposed to be evocative.
00:44:19.940 --> 00:44:28.180 Douglas M. Gillette: and if you, if you feel evoked, then, spiritual practice.
00:44:28.410 --> 00:44:37.409 Douglas M. Gillette: and both, as you mentioned individually and in groups. You know, and so forth. Spiritual practice, slash depth, psychology.
00:44:37.410 --> 00:44:43.435 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you. Thank you, Douglas. All right. We're gonna take our last break of the show.
00:44:44.390 --> 00:44:46.358 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we come back.
00:44:47.110 --> 00:45:07.219 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I would love actually to know a little bit about your your Mayan book, but but also, like the intersectionality like you talk about Egyptian thoughts or Aastrianism. Mayan Pythagorean. What's the through line? What's the thing that ties all these different areas together? Okay.
00:45:07.990 --> 00:45:08.550 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah.
00:45:08.700 --> 00:45:22.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We've been speaking this hour with Douglas Gillette, author of the book soul making, and we'll be right back to finish it all up.
00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:12.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back.
00:47:13.990 --> 00:47:17.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Douglas, you've studied many different
00:47:18.070 --> 00:47:24.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: traditions, many different histories, many different aspects of human civilization.
00:47:25.120 --> 00:47:30.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What have you found like pulls them all together. What's sort of been the through line for you?
00:47:32.100 --> 00:47:33.630 Douglas M. Gillette: The through line
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:46.000 Douglas M. Gillette: has been for me in all of it, in fact, all of reality that I am aware of in all these fields of study. The through line is the journey
00:47:46.210 --> 00:47:54.009 Douglas M. Gillette: toward through this life, through the wounding, through everything to
00:47:55.040 --> 00:48:01.770 Douglas M. Gillette: awareness of ourselves at higher registers, and ultimately oneness with the divine.
00:48:02.240 --> 00:48:12.149 Douglas M. Gillette: I mean, I worked so hard with with deaf psychology, with and so forth in writing, but practice too.
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:27.950 Douglas M. Gillette: and individually, couples, groups, so forth, that that consumed 20 years of my life. Same thing goes for the church and pastoral counseling, though I never was a perfect fit. Let's put it that way.
00:48:28.390 --> 00:48:29.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know.
00:48:31.510 --> 00:48:39.350 Douglas M. Gillette: It was all to help people move
00:48:40.120 --> 00:48:52.959 Douglas M. Gillette: breakthrough to what I regard as as a more fulsome consciousness, consequently more full life.
00:48:53.270 --> 00:49:05.350 Douglas M. Gillette: both here and after biological death. So the through line is is what I was saying about about soul making, and that is
00:49:05.650 --> 00:49:07.070 Douglas M. Gillette: evocative.
00:49:07.470 --> 00:49:08.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:49:08.160 --> 00:49:12.699 Douglas M. Gillette: All the work I've done in depth, psychology, and so forth, for myself and others.
00:49:12.850 --> 00:49:31.479 Douglas M. Gillette: and the work. 20, some years of teaching everything from quantum physics to the origins of Hebrew monotheism. And you know, Hinduism, all of it, all of it has been really
00:49:31.660 --> 00:49:41.260 Douglas M. Gillette: to evoke wonder, awe, gratitude, appreciation for each other, too.
00:49:42.832 --> 00:49:52.000 Douglas M. Gillette: relating to what we're talking about last segment. I think it was to modulate.
00:49:52.460 --> 00:49:55.449 Douglas M. Gillette: The animal animals are great.
00:49:55.700 --> 00:49:57.010 Douglas M. Gillette: We're animals.
00:49:57.330 --> 00:50:06.650 Douglas M. Gillette: More than that. But we're also but to modulate and move people from the spectrum of predation
00:50:08.020 --> 00:50:14.590 Douglas M. Gillette: and all the things, all the feelings, and that go with that toward this sense of
00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:21.739 Douglas M. Gillette: oneness with each other and and all things that can't be perfectly realized. Here. Obviously.
00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:28.880 Douglas M. Gillette: we have to go to the grocery store and buy what's left of dead animals and and dying plants.
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:35.035 Douglas M. Gillette: yeah, and so forth. But we must.
00:50:36.120 --> 00:50:50.310 Douglas M. Gillette: But yeah, the evocation of the richness, the complexity, the layered mess of the Psyche soul spirit.
00:50:50.930 --> 00:51:00.959 Douglas M. Gillette: and moving upward as far as possible into those higher registers of what else we are.
00:51:01.190 --> 00:51:07.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right moving up, but without losing the fact that our feet are on the ground. And we're here in the real world.
00:51:08.850 --> 00:51:26.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know life is changing so rapidly these days faster than either of us have probably ever seen in our lifetime. Between the upheaval in the world, technological change, political change all this stuff happening?
00:51:27.220 --> 00:51:31.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What can you offer to our listeners?
00:51:31.950 --> 00:51:37.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: From what you've learned in putting this book together to help with
00:51:37.790 --> 00:51:46.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: dealing with just this massive change in chaos and feeling like the ground, is like, not solid anymore.
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:56.020 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, I I would say, to realize that we also are at these higher levels. This is just one level.
00:51:56.230 --> 00:51:57.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:51:57.100 --> 00:51:59.499 Douglas M. Gillette: We have to live it, we have to get through it.
00:51:59.650 --> 00:52:02.199 Douglas M. Gillette: It is not dependable.
00:52:03.670 --> 00:52:14.640 Douglas M. Gillette: It's not a foregone conclusion that our species is moving as individuals or as a whole species, toward greater and greater benevolence, justice, fairness, kindness, etc.
00:52:16.420 --> 00:52:20.800 Douglas M. Gillette: But we are not confined to this.
00:52:22.474 --> 00:52:30.490 Douglas M. Gillette: This is a learning experience, for whatever reason, which escapes me largely.
00:52:30.995 --> 00:52:31.500 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah.
00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:33.580 Douglas M. Gillette: But but it is that
00:52:35.580 --> 00:52:40.440 Douglas M. Gillette: And while we're here to do good, love, mercy, and walk humbly with the divine.
00:52:43.332 --> 00:52:54.167 Douglas M. Gillette: Something out of. I never can remember if it's the prophet Joel, or I can't remember who. But anyway, yeah, live
00:52:55.420 --> 00:53:02.880 Douglas M. Gillette: As if this were not the only level of reality at which we are.
00:53:03.120 --> 00:53:03.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:53:04.940 --> 00:53:06.989 Douglas M. Gillette: You know I mean, do what you can.
00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:10.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right? Right? But no like this is not everything.
00:53:10.680 --> 00:53:16.589 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, the whole picture. Yeah, this is just one little piece of a much bigger jigsaw puzzle.
00:53:16.590 --> 00:53:17.220 Douglas M. Gillette: Right?
00:53:17.220 --> 00:53:20.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That we can't necessarily see all the other pieces.
00:53:20.700 --> 00:53:28.989 Douglas M. Gillette: We cannot. I mean, we can intuit some. We can experience some. We don't have final answers, because those are infinite.
00:53:30.410 --> 00:53:35.230 Douglas M. Gillette: and we are not even in our transcendent States.
00:53:35.893 --> 00:53:44.550 Douglas M. Gillette: There's a lot we could talk about around that. But yeah.
00:53:44.550 --> 00:53:47.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So. So let me ask you, in in writing this book.
00:53:48.190 --> 00:54:04.060 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Did anything really surprise you once you put it all down on paper? Was there something in the coming together of all this and putting this work together, that just once you did it, and you looked at it, or in the process of doing that you were like, Oh, wow! Like.
00:54:04.580 --> 00:54:04.990 Douglas M. Gillette: Like.
00:54:05.120 --> 00:54:07.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: A recognition that maybe wasn't there before.
00:54:07.850 --> 00:54:14.470 Douglas M. Gillette: 2 things, one, the the publisher chose the title and the subtitle.
00:54:15.730 --> 00:54:23.930 Douglas M. Gillette: And it was a little surprise, not, you know, like, Wow, really but it was a little surprising to me that I
00:54:24.430 --> 00:54:32.120 Douglas M. Gillette: was viewed by the publisher, presumably others, too, as soul, making.
00:54:33.250 --> 00:54:39.930 Douglas M. Gillette: Because I wasn't conscious of making my soul, you know, not really
00:54:40.598 --> 00:54:46.460 Douglas M. Gillette: and that I was termed a mystic, as I mentioned before.
00:54:47.070 --> 00:54:54.682 Douglas M. Gillette: Never thought of myself as soul making well depth at the level of depth. Psychology, maybe. But
00:54:55.240 --> 00:55:03.529 Douglas M. Gillette: I realized, oh, yeah, I mean, whatever else this is for some of us, anyway, this reality we are making soul.
00:55:03.940 --> 00:55:11.340 Douglas M. Gillette: or another way to say it. It feels like making. But it's also realizing.
00:55:11.720 --> 00:55:14.909 Douglas M. Gillette: And that's in the subtitle, too, the realization
00:55:16.020 --> 00:55:18.949 Douglas M. Gillette: of the mystical life. So so
00:55:20.740 --> 00:55:26.149 Douglas M. Gillette: I forget the other thing I was gonna mention. But but that, yes, was surprising.
00:55:26.150 --> 00:55:27.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Beautiful, beautiful.
00:55:28.300 --> 00:55:38.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, Douglas, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule and away from your little grandchild to come on the show today. I truly appreciate it.
00:55:39.030 --> 00:55:48.160 Douglas M. Gillette: I I can't thank you enough, Sam. I I really enjoyed it. This is fantastic work that you're doing from my, from my perspective.
00:55:48.160 --> 00:55:48.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Go ahead!
00:55:48.640 --> 00:55:53.420 Douglas M. Gillette: It really is, and especially as you mentioned in such dark times.
00:55:53.420 --> 00:55:55.073 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:03.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I I hesitate to call them dark times, because there's also a lot of light going on out.
00:56:03.060 --> 00:56:03.700 Douglas M. Gillette: There is.
00:56:03.700 --> 00:56:08.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Doesn't get as much publicity, but they're very chaotic times. I'll say.
00:56:08.420 --> 00:56:11.629 Douglas M. Gillette: Chaotic and and hurtful to many people.
00:56:11.630 --> 00:56:19.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, absolutely absolutely. If people want to learn more about you, is there a website? They can go to.
00:56:19.200 --> 00:56:28.200 Douglas M. Gillette: They can go to. It's Douglas Gillette. Creations dot calm. I.
00:56:28.200 --> 00:56:29.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Calm. Probably. Yeah.
00:56:30.032 --> 00:56:34.859 Douglas M. Gillette: I have. There's a guy that tends that website for me.
00:56:34.860 --> 00:56:35.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:56:35.470 --> 00:56:42.589 Douglas M. Gillette: So they can do that. They can. I'll give out my personal email, too.
00:56:42.590 --> 00:56:43.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh!
00:56:43.657 --> 00:56:50.459 Douglas M. Gillette: Yeah, because, but if they're gonna use this email, they need to say, you know, in the title
00:56:50.820 --> 00:56:58.389 Douglas M. Gillette: or subject box, who? Who? What who they are and what they're looking for, because otherwise I delete it
00:56:59.470 --> 00:57:04.390 Douglas M. Gillette: so that is gillette d
00:57:04.510 --> 00:57:17.319 Douglas M. Gillette: at sbcglobal.net. That would be a way to for for people to connect with my ongoing book discussion group, zoom book discussion group. If they were interested.
00:57:17.844 --> 00:57:20.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, that would be wonderful! That would be wonderful.
00:57:21.220 --> 00:57:36.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Douglas. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you. I know you said you don't have another book in the works, but if you do come out with another book, you let me know you can come back on, and I may want you to have you come back on to talk about the Mayan Shamanism book.
00:57:36.310 --> 00:57:40.510 Douglas M. Gillette: That'd be great, that'd be great. Thank you, Sam, so much.
00:57:40.510 --> 00:58:09.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Absolutely thank you. And of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you there is no show, and please don't forget. If you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on all the major podcasting platforms, apple, spotify Pandora iheartradio. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find the conscious consultant hour, enjoy the show. Please share it with your friends. If you're watching the video on Youtube, please share it on social media. Don't keep us the best kept secret.
00:58:09.650 --> 00:58:26.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you all for tuning in. Don't forget later today at 5 pm. It's Frank Harrison and his show, Frank about health, and after that, of course, our newest show on the network serving up success with a splash at 6 pm. Eastern time. Thank you all for tuning in. We will talk to you all next week.
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