EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes Speaker, Blogger, and Author, Carol Orsborn, Ph.D.
Dr. Orsborn is a true pioneer in the conscious aging movement. With over 35 best-selling books under her belt, appearances on Oprah and The Today Show, and decades of thought leadership, Carol brings a profound, uplifting perspective on growing older that you won't want to miss.
Dr. Orsborn will be sharing insights from her upcoming book, Spiritual Aging: Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life, set to release this December. Known for her soulful, empowering voice, she invites us to see aging not as decline, but as a powerful, spiritual unfolding, a message that promises to inspire people of every age.
Through her work curating Fierce with Age: The Archives of Boomer Wisdom and founding Sage-ing International, Carol has created spaces for people to reimagine what it means to live fully and fiercely as we grow older. Her approach is rich, wise, and surprisingly refreshing, even if aging isn’t usually on your radar, this conversation will open your heart.
Join us for a vibrant and thought-provoking discussion that will challenge the old narratives about aging and leave you seeing the next chapter of life in a whole new light!
Tune in and share all of your questions and comments about aging on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
In this episode of The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam Liebowitz explores the vital truth that success alone cannot replace the need for deep personal and spiritual work. He emphasizes that many high achievers—even in spiritual communities—may stop evolving inwardly, leading to imbalance and harm when the ego overshadows the heart. As the conversation turns to guest Dr. Carol Orsborn, the focus shifts to embracing aging as a sacred journey of inner unfolding, not decline—a theme that resonates deeply with anyone seeking a more conscious, soul-centered life.
Dr. Carol Orsborn shares how aging itself can be a profound spiritual teacher—stripping away ego, masks, and distractions to reveal a deeper, more honest experience of being alive. She describes a mystical moment during the isolation of COVID, where walking through a cemetery shifted her perception from fearing decline to feeling called back to unconditional love. Through this awakening, she reframes aging not as a loss, but as a sacred journey toward becoming "a nobody" in the most liberating and soul-affirming way.
Dr. Carol Orsborn delves into the emotional and existential challenges of aging, such as outliving loved ones, physical decline, and confronting loneliness—not as burdens, but as gateways to spiritual awakening. She shares mystical insights and personal experiences, including a profound realization during her mother’s death and her own walk through a cemetery, which helped her reframe mortality as a return to love and purpose. Through aging, illness, and solitude, she invites us to release illusions, embrace truth, and live more fully by connecting with the eternal soul rather than clinging to fleeting identities.
Dr. Carol Orsborn discusses Spiritual Aging, a reflective guide born from years of mystical dreams, which offers weekly insights into the emotional and existential dimensions of aging—encouraging honesty, humility, and shared wisdom. Drawing inspiration from 12-step traditions and contemplative practices, she emphasizes the importance of community, particularly through her work with Saging International, which helps elders transform isolation into meaningful connection. She reminds listeners that aging need not be feared or endured alone, but embraced as a sacred unfolding toward completion, purpose, and the soul’s return to love.
00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:32.759 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good.
00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:57.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon. Good evening. Good morning. Wherever you're tuning in from welcome to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We have an amazing guest coming on shortly, going to have a very important conversation today, not always a very comfortable one, but an important one.
00:00:57.700 --> 00:01:06.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But first, st of course, we have my blog post from a couple of years ago. Just kind of taking these in order, and they somehow do seem to be very apropos.
00:01:06.832 --> 00:01:14.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So let's get to it, because I really want to bring my guest on soon. So this week our blog is entitled.
00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:20.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Even when we achieve success, we must still do our inner work.
00:01:21.650 --> 00:01:25.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This world is very achievement oriented.
00:01:25.310 --> 00:01:30.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We are taught to set goals and do something big with our lives.
00:01:31.070 --> 00:01:34.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like becoming a best-selling author or a movie star.
00:01:35.510 --> 00:01:44.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Fame and fortune are so deeply prized that we forget things of value in the process of achieving them.
00:01:45.250 --> 00:01:52.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is not uncommon to meet people who have achieved some level of status and then stop growing.
00:01:53.520 --> 00:01:57.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They may keep pursuing more money or more fame.
00:01:58.060 --> 00:02:03.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet they forget to keep honing their skills or trying something new
00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:15.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in the world of self-improvement. We might find someone who has become the top of their field. They have published books, sold out appearances, and made their fortune.
00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:17.439 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and when we see them
00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:24.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in a setting where they are not on stage, we may find they're still looking to be the center of attention.
00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:30.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or just stay with their group of close friends and never mingle
00:02:31.470 --> 00:02:36.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it can make you wonder are they really doing their work
00:02:36.790 --> 00:02:45.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: just because we have achieved a level of success does not mean we still do not have our own challenges to face.
00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:55.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All too often we have heard the tale of someone who has achieved some success only to abuse or traumatize others with their own shadow.
00:02:56.060 --> 00:03:02.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Success in the material world does not equal personal and spiritual development.
00:03:02.980 --> 00:03:08.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We do not become enlightened by making millions of dollars.
00:03:09.420 --> 00:03:16.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: which is why it is important to deal with the shadow aspects of fame and fortune before we achieve them.
00:03:17.290 --> 00:03:30.480 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for when we have dealt with our own triggers, masks, and traumas. Only then can we be whole enough to hold the spotlight without it going to our ego.
00:03:31.290 --> 00:03:42.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of course this is not true of everyone who achieves success. Many people who have struggled to make it continue to do their work as they become successful.
00:03:43.450 --> 00:03:52.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the reminder of continuing to do our work, of going deeper with our own process is one we cannot forget.
00:03:54.370 --> 00:04:02.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for while we remain humble and know that we do not know everything, no matter how far we've come.
00:04:02.880 --> 00:04:07.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we can continue to serve others in the greatest way possible
00:04:08.820 --> 00:04:13.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: by achieving success and forgetting our lessons, we serve no one.
00:04:15.330 --> 00:04:23.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet when our hearts are open, and our intention remains to serve. We have truly learned our lessons
00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:29.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: until we come to another lesson to learn, and we keep learning
00:04:30.390 --> 00:04:36.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: until the day. We no longer breathe, and we keep learning
00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:42.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: as we keep learning and growing, we continue to thrive.
00:04:43.080 --> 00:04:48.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not just in making money, but in enriching our soul.
00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:53.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Are you continuing to do your own deep work?
00:04:54.940 --> 00:05:00.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I kind of wrote this blog post a couple of years ago.
00:05:01.110 --> 00:05:12.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I don't remember exactly what was the incident. I have a feeling it was there was some movie star that was in the news.
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:19.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or some or some musician, or someone who had gotten arrested or had done some horrendous things.
00:05:19.820 --> 00:05:33.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you're thinking to yourself, you know, this person has millions of dollars. They have fame and fortune yet they're abusing people. They're doing this horrible stuff they get got themselves arrested. I'm like what is going on here.
00:05:34.700 --> 00:05:36.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and the thing is, it's not
00:05:36.940 --> 00:05:44.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: reserved to the entertainment industry. It's not reserved to the business world. I have seen
00:05:44.710 --> 00:05:52.150 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: spiritual teachers and coaches and people who are the top of their game in the personal development field
00:05:54.710 --> 00:05:57.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: treat other people like garbage.
00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:08.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've even experienced it myself, and to me it was completely
00:06:08.950 --> 00:06:18.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: unfathomable. Why, how these people could still act like this, who supposedly know so much and have been so successful
00:06:19.830 --> 00:06:27.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: till I realized, you know, people just don't keep doing their work.
00:06:29.140 --> 00:06:33.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that when we achieve a certain level of success.
00:06:35.230 --> 00:06:39.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We kind of take it for granted we take it easy on ourselves.
00:06:40.300 --> 00:06:45.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and we stop paying attention to the lessons that life brings us every day.
00:06:49.410 --> 00:06:58.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and even in the most sacred of traditions, you know, even in the monasteries, whether they're they're
00:06:59.380 --> 00:07:05.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Catholic or Buddhist, or in whatever religion, even there
00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:08.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you'll find people abusing their power
00:07:09.180 --> 00:07:16.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and showing up in a way that their shadow is just spewing forth garbage all over the people around them.
00:07:19.260 --> 00:07:28.119 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And for me, you know. Sometimes I write my blog posts. They're just for me to for reminders, for myself, because I work with people. I help people
00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:34.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that I always have to keep doing my work, that that keeping, that little bit of humility.
00:07:35.910 --> 00:07:39.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that there's always something more to learn, that there's always
00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:46.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: some way in which we can improve ourselves, that we're not perfect.
00:07:49.310 --> 00:07:53.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that keeping that little bit of humility is so so important.
00:07:57.450 --> 00:08:03.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: especially for those in the helping professions, especially for those people like myself who work with people
00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:06.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: who people put their trust in.
00:08:08.670 --> 00:08:11.049 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's it's a reminder to me
00:08:11.380 --> 00:08:16.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to hold that trust very sacredly to honor that trust.
00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:19.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and to do the best I can.
00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:27.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now look, are we human beings absolutely? Do we make mistakes? Do we fall down?
00:08:27.620 --> 00:08:37.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do we hurt people. Yeah, absolutely. It's all part of the human experience. I'm not saying we're robots, and we've got to be absolutely perfect.
00:08:39.520 --> 00:08:51.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But we also should not, you know, give ourselves a pass too easily, and that, recognizing
00:08:52.210 --> 00:08:55.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: where we have some real work to do.
00:08:56.260 --> 00:08:58.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that that is important as well.
00:09:01.870 --> 00:09:08.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'll never forget that I saw this video many years ago by this gentleman by the name of Matt Khan.
00:09:08.620 --> 00:09:14.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: who's an extremely heart-centered spiritual teacher, and he talked about how
00:09:15.310 --> 00:09:44.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know when you meet some of these spiritual teachers, and they seem to have access to all this great information and all these amazing skills. Yet their interpersonal activity and relationships is such a mess. You know. I've seen it. I've seen it myself personally, over and over again. It always confused me, and he said, well, the reason why is because their crown Chakra, is way open. So they're open to the messages of the universe. They're open to spirit. They're able to receive all these gifts.
00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:51.950 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But their heart, Chakra, which is how we relate to people, isn't as as open as their crown, Chakra.
00:09:52.680 --> 00:09:56.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So there are issues here. They need to work on.
00:09:57.060 --> 00:10:05.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And suddenly it made so much sense to me because I've seen people. I've experienced that exact same phenomena.
00:10:07.900 --> 00:10:11.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So to me there's always more to learn.
00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:17.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's always the opportunity and the invitation to do better.
00:10:17.790 --> 00:10:19.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and to show up in a way
00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:25.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that helps ourselves and helps others in a better way.
00:10:27.170 --> 00:10:28.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that's really what this
00:10:29.250 --> 00:10:52.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: blog post is all about. So I hope you liked it. The title, again, is even when we achieve success. We must still do our inner work. And you can always find my blog post on my personally branded website at theconsciousconsultant.com. And of course, on the radio station's website@talkradio.nyc slash blog
00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:57.006 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: all right, and don't forget if you do like my blog post.
00:10:57.550 --> 00:11:04.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I have a whole book full of them, called everyday awakening. Just take a look for it on Amazon, or at all the major booksellers.
00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:34.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: All right. Now it is my pleasure to welcome to the show speaker Blogger and author, Dr. Carol Osborne. Dr. Osborne, is a true pioneer in the conscious aging movement, with over 35 bestselling books under her belt. Appearances on Oprah and the today show and decades of thought leadership. Carol brings a profound uplifting perspective on growing older that you don't want to Miss
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:58.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dr. Osborne will be talking about her newest book, spiritual Aging, weekly reflections for embracing life set to be released this December known for her soulful, empowering voice. She invites us to see aging, not as decline, but as a powerful spiritual unfolding, a message that promises to inspire people of every age.
00:11:58.560 --> 00:12:23.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: She has also curated her work through fierce with age, the archives of boomer wisdom, and founded the Sage International a wonderful foundation. Carol has created spaces for people to reimagine what it means to live fully and fiercely as we grow older. Welcome to the conscious consultant era. Dr. Osborne.
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:42.389 Carol Orsborn: Well, thank you so much. I just like to mention that my book is. It's 2 years of weekly readings, and it came out last December. So this coming December, it starts year 2. But you can hop into the book anytime. You want.
00:12:42.390 --> 00:13:10.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes, and we'll have a link to the book in the show notes so definitely check out the summary in the show notes after the show. But yes, spiritual aging, which is what we've entitled this episode. We'll want to get into it, but we just have a couple of minutes before our 1st break. So first, st I want to ask, like, how did you even decide to focus on this topic of aging? It's not your kind of typical field of endeavor. Is it.
00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:19.450 Carol Orsborn: Well, happily, I wasn't the first, st but I was.
00:13:20.330 --> 00:13:38.359 Carol Orsborn: I wasn't finding what I needed in Academia. I was going for my doctorate in life stage development at Vanderbilt University, and I did get my doctorate, but I went all the way through all the social sciences, and never really found a good explanation of
00:13:38.420 --> 00:13:41.590 Carol Orsborn: aging is anything more than an afterthought.
00:13:41.630 --> 00:14:11.039 Carol Orsborn: You know all of the great life stage theorists peak at forties, fifties, and some of them like Piaget. You know your character supposedly set when you're 6 years old, and so, after I got my doctorate, I thought, who can tell me more about? You know I don't feel like the rest of my life. I was 49 when I got it so. It was considered a late in life which to me is so young, but you know it was a late in life, Doctorate, right.
00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:11.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:30.130 Carol Orsborn: And I slipped and slid back to where my heart has always been, and that is with the mystics. And that's where I found aging as a spiritual experience, a spiritual practice aging, not as something to be forgotten about, but as a culmination.
00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:35.880 Carol Orsborn: And and it does go right back to your blog. I was very interested in listening to your blog.
00:14:36.020 --> 00:14:44.500 Carol Orsborn: because, you know, you sort of you get old enough. You outgrow the nonsense that being successful means anything.
00:14:44.670 --> 00:14:45.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:14:45.300 --> 00:14:49.320 Carol Orsborn: It's it's something else entirely. And the older you get, the more you
00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:55.970 Carol Orsborn: the more you want to develop those qualities that have nothing to do with being paid, or or even approved of.
00:14:56.330 --> 00:15:06.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right? Right? Yeah, it's kind of one of the gifts of aging, they always say, is that you? You care less and less what other people think about you. So then you're more and more true to yourself.
00:15:06.380 --> 00:15:09.449 Carol Orsborn: Yeah. Well, what other people think of me is none of my business.
00:15:09.450 --> 00:15:15.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right. I say that all the time. Oh, we're gonna get along famously, I can tell you.
00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:28.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, we're going to take our 1st break. So when we come back, let's talk about what you've learned and how we can use aging as a spiritual practice. Okay, Carol.
00:15:28.430 --> 00:15:29.170 Carol Orsborn: Yep.
00:15:29.260 --> 00:15:45.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday 12 noon to one Pm. Eastern time, right here on Talkradio, Dot, Nyc. And all over social media. And we'll be right back with our guest.
00:15:45.370 --> 00:15:50.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Dr. Carol Osborne, author of the book, spiritual Aging. In just a moment.
00:17:36.810 --> 00:17:45.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Dr. Carol Osborne, author of the Book Spiritual Aging.
00:17:45.890 --> 00:17:48.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Carol, may I call you Carol.
00:17:49.090 --> 00:17:49.910 Carol Orsborn: Sure.
00:17:50.903 --> 00:17:51.726 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Great
00:17:54.560 --> 00:18:20.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You mentioned in the 1st segment how you know you were looking for some information around aging from sort of develop in the developmental psychological world wasn't really finding it. And then you you found it more from mystics and from ancient sages. Tell me about that. How did you? What did you 1st find, and what intrigued you about it, that it kept you going.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:24.295 Carol Orsborn: Wow!
00:18:26.330 --> 00:18:33.260 Carol Orsborn: I guess I have spent enough time on meditation pillows and the like
00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:35.909 Carol Orsborn: to know how hard it is
00:18:36.250 --> 00:18:41.100 Carol Orsborn: to cut, to become detached from your ego as you were talking about.
00:18:41.320 --> 00:18:54.570 Carol Orsborn: to truly simplify your life, to become individuated from other people's opinions, to be courageous. All that I mean, I have paid a lot of money in a lot of workshop settings
00:18:54.730 --> 00:19:06.179 Carol Orsborn: to achieve something, and maybe my crown shocker is overflowing. I don't know. I have a lot of information, but when push came to shove, I just couldn't.
00:19:06.340 --> 00:19:07.720 Carol Orsborn: I couldn't quite
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:24.319 Carol Orsborn: get that last 1020%. I know there's a sense that I have, that we're not meant to peak at midlife at the height of external success, and then only have to look forward to a slow, sad decline that we're dreading.
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:42.879 Carol Orsborn: and I do believe, I believe, very much in evolution and in God, that if there is a later part in life where we're physically diminished or even mentally diminished. There still must be some purpose to living that life. I don't believe that we're just floundering around waiting to die.
00:19:43.070 --> 00:20:00.959 Carol Orsborn: And so I started to. Really, I've been reading mystics all my life. It's just that all of a sudden it all made sense. For instance, if you want to get over your sense of ego
00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:15.439 Carol Orsborn: being the dominant force in your life, you know. How do I look? You know. How are people perceiving me? You know who am I, and all that all you have to do is get old enough and look in the mirror. I don't have to go sit on a meditation pillow.
00:20:16.360 --> 00:20:18.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right.
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:24.149 Carol Orsborn: You know, it's like aging is an organic teacher. It starts stripping away all of our masks.
00:20:24.280 --> 00:20:35.379 Carol Orsborn: It starts stripping away our defenses and our tools and the resources that we use to defend ourselves from being willing to tell the truth about reality.
00:20:35.550 --> 00:20:41.180 Carol Orsborn: And as long as you don't take refuge in drinking a lot.
00:20:41.848 --> 00:20:48.949 Carol Orsborn: A lot, you know, drugging yourself, continuing to drive yourself as if you were still at midlife when you're not.
00:20:48.950 --> 00:20:49.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:20:49.625 --> 00:20:54.100 Carol Orsborn: You know, there's lots of ways you can be addicted to busyness. You could be addicted to your kids.
00:20:54.210 --> 00:21:04.080 Carol Orsborn: I mean, there's any addiction. Any anything that takes you away from being able and willing to experience
00:21:04.320 --> 00:21:06.410 Carol Orsborn: what it means to be fully alive
00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:10.449 Carol Orsborn: and aging will do that for you if you let it.
00:21:10.570 --> 00:21:13.360 Carol Orsborn: and being fully alive is not just the good stuff.
00:21:13.520 --> 00:21:34.999 Carol Orsborn: You know you're talking about shadow. It's also the bad stuff. So you know, hopefully. You get to live long enough to live past your persona and have a more direct experience of life, including joy and including pain. And that's that's a spiritual awakening, and it's very I think it's very hard to get there before you're very old.
00:21:35.910 --> 00:21:42.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, I can see that I can see that because there is something to experiencing in life
00:21:44.270 --> 00:21:51.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the sense that there, as they say there's more days behind you than there are in front of you.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:52.570 Carol Orsborn: Yeah, I've heard that.
00:21:52.570 --> 00:21:54.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know the sense that
00:21:55.530 --> 00:22:05.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we are going back to what we came from before we were born, that imminent demise that really.
00:22:05.930 --> 00:22:09.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I think, brings us even more present if we allow it to
00:22:10.316 --> 00:22:17.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've heard that a lot of ancient mystics, they would keep a human skull on their desk to remind them of death.
00:22:18.270 --> 00:22:22.239 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and they would use death as one of their greatest tools
00:22:22.870 --> 00:22:26.749 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to help them to honor the present moment, regardless of their age.
00:22:28.090 --> 00:22:35.800 Carol Orsborn: Yeah. Well, I I 1st of all, my father's a physician, and he had a skull in the attic.
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:22:36.700 --> 00:22:42.179 Carol Orsborn: Just when you said that I remembered that that was my favorite possession of his. I would go up there
00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:47.009 Carol Orsborn: and studied this thing for hours like the teeth, kind of wiggled.
00:22:47.470 --> 00:22:48.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh no!
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:55.019 Carol Orsborn: You know. Maybe I went into this training very young, that I was so so fascinated at the age of 4 or 6, or whatever you know.
00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:56.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow! Wow!
00:22:56.668 --> 00:23:12.910 Carol Orsborn: But I had a mystical experience, and I had it during Covid in the heart of Covid when we were isolated, and I wasn't seeing people. The only place I could really walk safely was a cemetery near my house, and so I spent a lot of time walking the cemetery
00:23:13.070 --> 00:23:13.909 Carol Orsborn: and
00:23:15.202 --> 00:23:25.509 Carol Orsborn: I really I was. I was one of the people that enjoyed the isolation of Covid, but but even so, I felt like I needed. It was an opportunity to grow. And I
00:23:25.570 --> 00:23:45.400 Carol Orsborn: sometimes you have this feeling. It's like, why aren't I enlightened yet? You know I put so much time in and during Covid here I was paying my dues, and I was meditating and everything. You know. Why aren't I enlightened yet? So I took this long walk, and I swear to God my life, pivoted like upside down, related to what you just said.
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:45.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh!
00:23:45.990 --> 00:24:09.239 Carol Orsborn: I perceived. So here I am studying the arc of human development, and have been to the point of getting my doctorate in it. So for many years. You know we're born. What happens next? Then we move into adolescence, and then, young adulthood that you know the differing things that move us forward, and all that, but I realized that none of them, they all started at birth and ended at death.
00:24:09.450 --> 00:24:26.080 Carol Orsborn: and I had this apparition at that moment of what comes before we're born and what happens after we die, and that the lifespan, the limitation and understanding that I felt in Academia was that they didn't take that into consideration.
00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:38.389 Carol Orsborn: So you know I am a mystical person, whether I'm quoting other people or just. It's how I view the world. But I was able to articulate it, I felt that I had come from love.
00:24:38.550 --> 00:25:06.909 Carol Orsborn: and that the birth process is terrifying, and that the 1st part of life is being pushed behind by fear, you know. Where did it go? How do I get it back? Will this job help me? Will this spouse help me? Will having my child help me. We're just trying so hard to get it back. But it's really being driven by this sense of being pushed from behind by this sense of desperation. That's just under the surface. It's like, maybe I'll never get it back, you know.
00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:27.879 Carol Orsborn: And what happened to me at that day walking in the cemetery halfway through Covid is that I suddenly felt well, yes, I think that push is real. But I for the 1st time felt in the far future or not far future, just ahead of me, that same loving force calling me to it, embracing
00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:39.899 Carol Orsborn: me in. And that shift I consider as the beginning of of the aging process, which I personally think aging spiritual aging is is a high state.
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:54.250 Carol Orsborn: you know. So for me, it's like to get to the point of of initiating spiritual aging to admitting I'm growing old, and and that I'm in a serious aging process. It's gonna end with death.
00:25:54.570 --> 00:26:07.539 Carol Orsborn: It. It was the difference between living my life being pushed by fear versus feeling myself being called forth in a loving embrace to reunite with love
00:26:07.770 --> 00:26:15.329 Carol Orsborn: well, and that very much changes the experience of growing older. If if you feel that growing more and more powerful.
00:26:15.330 --> 00:26:29.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious. Was there a particular place in the cemetery where that happened like? Were you near a particular person's tombstone, or by a tree or something. I'm just wondering if there was a certain energy you hit when that happened.
00:26:29.060 --> 00:26:56.030 Carol Orsborn: Wow! I can picture exactly where I was. It's a military cemetery, and so it's very to me. It reminds me of a musical score. I mean, it's very rhythmic. You know that every single tombstone looks exactly the same, and they're all in these lines. Regimented lines, and the individuality of every tombstone is barely existent.
00:26:56.030 --> 00:26:56.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No, you.
00:26:56.660 --> 00:27:09.670 Carol Orsborn: You just who is it and what what's their story? And it just that's not important. What's important is. And I've never even nobody's ever asked me that question. So this is kind of fun. I was on a pathway.
00:27:10.155 --> 00:27:24.919 Carol Orsborn: That was higher than this than this at the top of the cemetery, and so when I looked down, it was like this span of it felt like like, almost like looking up in the stars. You know, it's like there's a harmony to it. But it wasn't personal.
00:27:25.040 --> 00:27:34.720 Carol Orsborn: and I don't know if that's if that filtered in. But it's also true. I wasn't seeing people, you know, when you're when you're in in covid isolation.
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.360 Carol Orsborn: It was a very impersonal period.
00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:37.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As well.
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:38.370 Carol Orsborn: And.
00:27:38.370 --> 00:27:39.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:27:39.100 --> 00:27:42.680 Carol Orsborn: So it was more about feeling.
00:27:45.050 --> 00:27:52.110 Carol Orsborn: Wow, well, I mean, this brings me to my second point, you know, it's like, and you were talking about this. That was a great start to what I'm talking about. RAM Das
00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:57.069 Carol Orsborn: talks about becoming a nobody. Many of the mystics talk about becoming a nobody.
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:03.680 Carol Orsborn: and that's really more of that was coming from. If if it's not about how
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.229 Carol Orsborn: much my last book sold, you know.
00:28:07.340 --> 00:28:09.969 Carol Orsborn: and and if it's not
00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:14.409 Carol Orsborn: how I was interacting with people every day who were like affirming.
00:28:14.420 --> 00:28:43.620 Carol Orsborn: oh, you look good, or you know, wow! Tell me about your latest trip, or whatever, if it's not that. And this is years into Covid, you know, a year and a half or 2 without without that kind of level of affirmation. Then who am I? And what am I? And and it's like the whoosh of the push of the past to be that thing left, and it's like for me. There's there's 2 fundamentals to spiritual aging. The 1st is
00:28:43.630 --> 00:28:50.489 Carol Orsborn: to accept reality as it is for what can't help being, and the second is to know that you're beloved, no matter what.
00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:51.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:28:51.620 --> 00:28:56.130 Carol Orsborn: Neither of those have anything to do with persona or mask.
00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:58.850 --> 00:29:06.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But but I'm still curious. If you got an answer to that question, you just said before, what are you? If you're not all that other stuff.
00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:09.060 Carol Orsborn: Yeah.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:14.819 Carol Orsborn: Well, ultimately, I think the only thing
00:29:17.270 --> 00:29:23.959 Carol Orsborn: that matters to me now. And increasingly so, since that moment that moment was maybe
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:26.930 Carol Orsborn: when was Covid 7 8 years ago, longer.
00:29:26.930 --> 00:29:28.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 5 years ago.
00:29:28.260 --> 00:29:29.470 Carol Orsborn: Is that all custom.
00:29:29.470 --> 00:29:30.445 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, that's all.
00:29:31.715 --> 00:29:32.660 Carol Orsborn: Right.
00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:33.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:29:38.170 --> 00:29:44.079 Carol Orsborn: When I feel that I'm home inside my in my.
00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:55.510 Carol Orsborn: this this carnation, it's all about to what degree I'm open to knowing that I'm beloved unconditionally, there isn't
00:29:57.460 --> 00:30:03.589 Carol Orsborn: unconditionally, is such a great word. Because if you are doing anything to earn that love, you have conditions.
00:30:03.590 --> 00:30:04.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:27.680 Carol Orsborn: You know, if in your story about the famous people, how do they know they're loved unconditionally? Everybody's trying to get stuff from them all the time, or trying to be like them, or whatever it's like to me that when I speak, and maybe you're the same way. When I look at my audience the the people that really get my message. They tend to have been through a brutal illness or or divorce, or they're strange from their kids.
00:30:27.860 --> 00:30:38.900 Carol Orsborn: you know. Something has broken their persona and and left them shambles and shambles on the floor, and then they can begin, and there's a a
00:30:39.070 --> 00:30:47.839 Carol Orsborn: a fullness to their life and to their you see it in their eyes, even if they're even if they're sad, even if there's tears in those eyes, they're alive.
00:30:48.060 --> 00:30:50.709 Carol Orsborn: I mean to me there's dead people and alive people, you know.
00:30:51.060 --> 00:30:51.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:30:51.820 --> 00:30:55.509 Carol Orsborn: And I want to be one of the the living people, and sometimes I'm
00:30:56.250 --> 00:31:17.960 Carol Orsborn: whining, and you know but I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty in touch with what's going on with me most of the time, and some of it is neurotic as heck. But I'm not masking very well anymore. And you know, that's part of the thing about growing older. You know, people if they find it harder and harder to maintain their masks.
00:31:18.070 --> 00:31:21.379 Carol Orsborn: So that's why you get cranky old men, and you know
00:31:23.010 --> 00:31:26.320 Carol Orsborn: you get women that you know come out of nowhere and speak their minds. Tell you.
00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:26.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know.
00:31:26.660 --> 00:31:30.220 Carol Orsborn: Which end is up. It's like you lose your filter.
00:31:30.220 --> 00:31:30.680 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.069 Carol Orsborn: Better or for worse.
00:31:32.770 --> 00:31:40.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. Alright. Well, listen. We need to take another break when we come back. I'd love to talk about some of the challenges
00:31:40.610 --> 00:31:51.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: around aging, and how, taking a more spiritual approach of looking at aging as a spiritual practice can actually help with overcoming some of those challenges. Okay.
00:31:51.340 --> 00:31:55.669 Carol Orsborn: Yeah, but challenge me with what some of the challenges are, and I'll I'll tell you what I think.
00:31:55.670 --> 00:32:16.489 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You got it. You got it all right. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Our guest this hour is Carol Osborne. I'm sorry I mispronounced your name before author of the Book Spiritual Aging Weekly Reflections for embracing life, and we'll be right back to learn how to embrace more of life.
00:33:53.270 --> 00:34:03.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Carol. I would love to talk about some of the challenges, and how this can help us, and you asked me to come up with some challenges. So I think of my mom
00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:07.369 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because my mom lived to the ripe old age of 99 and a half.
00:34:07.370 --> 00:34:08.440 Carol Orsborn: Nice.
00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:24.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I was really quite fortunate for a couple of many reasons, many reasons, one of which she was cognitively with it until the end also she moved close to my sister. And so my sister actually, you know, took a lot care of her towards the end of her life.
00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:33.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But I also saw how she outlived almost everybody of her generation.
00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:37.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the relatives. She was close to her friends.
00:34:38.310 --> 00:34:43.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: She outlived them all that can be kind of challenging for somebody, can't it?
00:34:46.060 --> 00:34:47.239 Carol Orsborn: Yeah.
00:34:47.370 --> 00:34:50.399 Carol Orsborn: And you think about the grieving with every passage.
00:34:52.670 --> 00:34:56.470 Carol Orsborn: You know, aging is not for sissies. It's just not
00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:06.630 Carol Orsborn: i i i think, in order to age, spiritually takes a radical leap of faith.
00:35:07.230 --> 00:35:07.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:35:08.210 --> 00:35:17.219 Carol Orsborn: That it's all for something. And you know, Tolstoy and Hospice workers.
00:35:17.550 --> 00:35:27.179 Carol Orsborn: almost everybody that's worked with people on on at the point of death, or written about them as Tolstoy did, and the death of even Ivan Ilyitch.
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:32.460 Carol Orsborn: They all say the same thing like, there's this thing that happens at the moment of death.
00:35:33.439 --> 00:35:34.160 Carol Orsborn: Of
00:35:34.330 --> 00:36:03.820 Carol Orsborn: Aha, you know it's like, even even if up to the moment of death, they are struggling and holding on, and and not wanting to go, and all that. There's this thing all of a sudden there's this relaxation that comes back over them, and people who've come back been resuscitated, say the same thing as Tolstoy puts it, it's as if all the baggage of life falls away, and you are in direct
00:36:04.060 --> 00:36:09.979 Carol Orsborn: embrace of of a belovedness. That is the the greatest joy you can possibly imagine.
00:36:10.180 --> 00:36:25.620 Carol Orsborn: And I began to ask myself. I also had a well. My mother had a difficult death until the very end, and then I had a mystical experience in that. The only reason I knew that she died is that the room started sparkling.
00:36:27.390 --> 00:36:37.300 Carol Orsborn: effervescent. I thought maybe I was going to pass out, or something. It was the same feeling you do get. But just before you pass out, but I wasn't passing out, you know there was like this sense of
00:36:37.770 --> 00:36:41.959 Carol Orsborn: all the particles being infused with something more.
00:36:42.180 --> 00:36:43.080 Carol Orsborn: And
00:36:43.230 --> 00:36:55.230 Carol Orsborn: you know, when you have experiences like that, you. Then you you begin to ask yourself questions. And the question I asked myself was that I don't want to die the way my mother did, because she was lonely.
00:36:55.470 --> 00:37:06.489 Carol Orsborn: She didn't feel like life was meaningful. She couldn't find a purpose anymore. She kept asking me if I would help her die. You know I I didn't want that for myself. And yet here I had this
00:37:06.790 --> 00:37:17.850 Carol Orsborn: growing belief that there was like this ecstatic experience that's going to happen to you at the moment of death, and I asked myself, What can I do to have that experience earlier.
00:37:18.020 --> 00:37:18.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.300 Carol Orsborn: It possible to live in that space
00:37:21.580 --> 00:37:32.179 Carol Orsborn: earlier on. And that's where the mystics come in, because some mystics, genuine mystics, are living in that space. And I wanted to live in that space.
00:37:32.180 --> 00:37:32.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:37:32.750 --> 00:37:59.539 Carol Orsborn: And others of them were aspiring to live in that space, and very good at recording their struggles with it. So that's RAM Dass is one of my favorites. I love RAM Dass because he's so honest about his struggles, you know, and he's trying to hold on to his midlife persona, and how Spirit kept calling to him, and eventually took over more and more of him, but partly because he had a debilitating stroke.
00:37:59.540 --> 00:38:00.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right, right.
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:05.020 Carol Orsborn: So, you know. Is there a way that we can merge with this?
00:38:05.860 --> 00:38:06.790 Carol Orsborn: I haven't.
00:38:07.430 --> 00:38:12.780 Carol Orsborn: with what I call the promise of life's fulfillment before we die, and before we have the stroke.
00:38:13.640 --> 00:38:33.810 Carol Orsborn: you know, and maybe we have. I mean, maybe you've had your stroke, and you haven't had that experience yet I believe it's possible, wherever you are today, as happened to me in the cemetery a 1 day conversion experience, where all of a sudden you get more curious than afraid you get more
00:38:34.561 --> 00:38:37.220 Carol Orsborn: excited about being a person
00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:48.229 Carol Orsborn: looking at life, even even the things that you've been dreading and resisting as some kind of mystery and some kind of adventure.
00:38:49.300 --> 00:38:50.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm!
00:38:50.700 --> 00:38:57.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And you know, the thing I always find curious is that different cultures have very different attitudes towards aging.
00:38:58.610 --> 00:39:05.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know my wife comes from China, from the East, and they're older. People are not
00:39:05.590 --> 00:39:10.899 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: treated the same way that they're treated here. They're treated with a lot more respect and honor.
00:39:11.430 --> 00:39:23.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I'm curious in in researching and learning about spiritual aging. Did you find any differences in culture and the contrast that that you found helpful.
00:39:24.180 --> 00:39:26.029 Carol Orsborn: Yeah. Well, America's the worst.
00:39:26.030 --> 00:39:29.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:36.829 Carol Orsborn: You know our strength is our weakness right? Our strength is being able to manifest power and materialism and
00:39:38.730 --> 00:39:39.930 Carol Orsborn: muscle.
00:39:39.930 --> 00:39:40.440 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:46.409 Carol Orsborn: And our weakness is that the weak are defiled, and, you know, dreaded.
00:39:46.850 --> 00:39:47.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:39:47.230 --> 00:39:51.100 Carol Orsborn: So it's it's all part of a package. I
00:39:51.190 --> 00:39:57.250 Carol Orsborn: I encountered the life stages in the Hindu tradition as a really healthy model.
00:39:57.310 --> 00:40:26.100 Carol Orsborn: and found it really exciting when I discovered that they start out kind of the same as the Western models of life stage development. You know you you are born you, you develop your skills, you get a career, you get educated, you start a family. But again, in the Western tradition, they get us to that point. And then the kids, you know, leave the nest and leave you empty, and we're dropped off a cliff. You know the snow white right?
00:40:26.970 --> 00:40:38.289 Carol Orsborn: And in the Hindu tradition. They have, like 3 or 4 more stages. So the stage, the stage that I really like, and that I think I'm at, or at least approaching is called Forest Dwellers.
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:44.340 Carol Orsborn: and that's people who leave there
00:40:44.610 --> 00:41:02.320 Carol Orsborn: they were in the mainstream of their life, in their big house, full of children. They actually leave the cities, go out into nature, into the forest, or whatever maybe in community, though I mean, there may be other people there, and they relate to each other. But they're living very alternatively and more inwardly.
00:41:02.390 --> 00:41:22.409 Carol Orsborn: and they're not trying. They're not promoting themselves. They're not going back. And, you know, writing bestselling books, or speaking, or anything. They're there, though if the kids want to come out to the forest and seek them out, they do so. I think I'm on the verge of that. I am. I'm just turning that page to
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:32.819 Carol Orsborn: to that stage. But that's not even the last stage, because the last stage is called the Renunciate, and there you are, living alone, pretty much like a hermit.
00:41:32.900 --> 00:41:40.660 Carol Orsborn: And I'm thinking about your mother's story. You know there are people that self choose to be in a Hermetic kind of
00:41:40.820 --> 00:42:02.069 Carol Orsborn: relationship with their inner life, or with God, or whatever, where all of the the veil between the divine, and their own consciousness gets very, very thin. And anybody the children, the world, the Daily News, whatever becomes less and less important.
00:42:02.670 --> 00:42:27.279 Carol Orsborn: And even disappears. So if you, I'm not saying you personally. But if a person has a fear of being alone at the end, and so many do, then the thing. If you want to face your fear, you start reading about the contemplative traditions and people who choose solitude, and don't think of loneliness as punishment or failure. That's a very American way of looking at things.
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:27.990 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:39.020 Carol Orsborn: You know Thomas Merton was really upset to the day he died, because all he wanted to do was be a solitude contemplative.
00:42:39.020 --> 00:42:39.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:45.499 Carol Orsborn: Able to pray to God, and they, his order, kept calling him back to publish another book and go on a speaking to her.
00:42:46.423 --> 00:42:48.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:42:48.270 --> 00:42:53.170 Carol Orsborn: He died before. Yeah, at a young age relatively young age, before he ever got to.
00:42:53.966 --> 00:42:57.690 Carol Orsborn: Ever got to his goal of just being one with God, you know.
00:42:57.690 --> 00:42:58.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:07.109 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So that that kind of brings me to the next kind of challenge. We just have a couple of minutes before break, which is, you know, the
00:43:07.240 --> 00:43:16.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I think most people see. The biggest challenge of getting older is the physical decline and the disease and the body not working anymore.
00:43:17.070 --> 00:43:31.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So what can spiritual aging? How can spiritual aging help us to kind of deal with those kinds of challenges when suddenly this vehicle that we've been used to working a certain way. Our whole life doesn't work that way anymore.
00:43:32.910 --> 00:43:39.379 Carol Orsborn: Right? Well, yeah, we realize how invested we are in illusion.
00:43:39.380 --> 00:43:40.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:43:40.760 --> 00:44:06.620 Carol Orsborn: You know, we, any one of us, at any point, could have gotten run over or gotten a terrible disease. I think the secret to my career. Really, you asked at the beginning, why'd you start writing about this I was talking about when I got my doctorate. I had breast cancer at the same time I had breast cancer when I was 49, and and got my doctorate a year later. So it all came as part of a package that turned to the mystic
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:14.550 Carol Orsborn: For me. Illness I see as metaphor and as ritual, and
00:44:14.670 --> 00:44:18.010 Carol Orsborn: while I don't want a bad diagnosis.
00:44:18.180 --> 00:44:27.480 Carol Orsborn: I see it as a teacher. And and again, if if your game is not to live forever, which you're never going to do anyway, which is the illusion, part of it.
00:44:28.072 --> 00:44:35.970 Carol Orsborn: If you're not going to live forever, then then there's something else that is really going on for you, and that is the development of your soul.
00:44:36.190 --> 00:44:43.229 Carol Orsborn: and having a serious illness, is such a great teacher and contributor to your
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.840 Carol Orsborn: to your personal growth. If you look at.
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.200 Carol Orsborn: if you're willing to look at it, not as the enemy.
00:44:49.320 --> 00:45:16.009 Carol Orsborn: and not as see. I wrote a book when I had breast cancer called speak the language of healing. You know all the metaphors about breast cancer were, you know, fight it, you know it's trying to kill you. You got to kill the cells, you know all that kind of stuff. It didn't appeal to me then, and I guess it was a prodigy, because I mean, the thing is is that when you get breast cancer at 49, even a serious case. You have the hope of recovering, and I did.
00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:16.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:20.378 Carol Orsborn: But I'm 77, and I'm not gonna recover from life.
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:21.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:45:21.330 --> 00:45:32.320 Carol Orsborn: Not, you know. It's like the positive thinking, and the and the and the the beat. It kind of metaphors. They don't work, anyway, but I already knew that when I was 49, so.
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:32.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:45:33.260 --> 00:45:43.960 Carol Orsborn: I've had a lot of years living with a lot of stuff since then, and I look at it as healing my soul, not as sickness of my body.
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:46.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm, yeah, yeah.
00:45:48.055 --> 00:45:52.127 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the gentleman who started this network Georgio was
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: He became a Buddhist monk, but he was an acupuncturist.
00:45:56.910 --> 00:46:02.769 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: but he used to say, we don't heal anybody of anything, because we're all eventually going to die. So what do you.
00:46:02.770 --> 00:46:03.220 Carol Orsborn: Good.
00:46:03.220 --> 00:46:04.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Absolutely talking about yeah.
00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:10.469 Carol Orsborn: That's why age is so. I mean again, look in the mirror and see. I'm not who I who I used to be.
00:46:10.470 --> 00:46:10.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:46:10.790 --> 00:46:15.479 Carol Orsborn: You know, and it scares us because I can see my skull beneath my you know my.
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I can see.
00:46:17.090 --> 00:46:18.880 Carol Orsborn: Remember, you know, when I was 4. I was
00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:23.329 Carol Orsborn: see it in there now, and and in my friends. I see it.
00:46:23.330 --> 00:46:23.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So.
00:46:23.860 --> 00:46:33.930 Carol Orsborn: So, you know, it's like there's no more hiding, and and it quickens things. But you know, spirituality, it's it's it's not like a game in order to get happy. Today.
00:46:33.930 --> 00:46:34.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I.
00:46:34.730 --> 00:46:42.539 Carol Orsborn: Spirituality really is about telling the truth, including embracing our mortality and
00:46:44.420 --> 00:47:00.880 Carol Orsborn: and to find the liberation in that. But it's not for everybody, you know. If if you can take your last $10,000 and go on a cruise to Europe, and you know, die while you're climbing. You know the Alps, or something, you know. God bless you!
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:01.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:47:01.470 --> 00:47:18.899 Carol Orsborn: But there's a lot of you know, not not everybody. Is that good at hiding from the truth of what it means to be a human being. I think those people who can't hide are blessed, and those are the people I'm interested in talking with and being with, and frankly, I find everybody else a little boring.
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:22.189 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. Good for you.
00:47:22.190 --> 00:47:25.570 Carol Orsborn: I'm not good at small talk anymore. If you haven't noticed.
00:47:25.570 --> 00:47:39.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes, I love it. I love it. Okay, we're going to take our last break of the show when we come back. I do want to ask you at least one question around your book, spiritual aging. And I also want to ask you about saging international because that sounds
00:47:39.660 --> 00:47:50.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like a fascinating organization. Okay, we'll finish up the show. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We've been speaking this hour
00:47:51.330 --> 00:47:57.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: with Dr. Carol Oarsborne, author of the Book Spiritual Aging, and we'll be right back to finish it all up.
00:49:39.650 --> 00:49:42.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Carol your book spiritual Aging?
00:49:43.120 --> 00:49:46.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Who did you write it for? And and
00:49:46.730 --> 00:49:50.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like, what's the purpose behind the book? How does it help people.
00:49:50.690 --> 00:49:53.549 Carol Orsborn: Well, let me let me just show it to you. So people know what we're talking about.
00:49:53.550 --> 00:49:54.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:49:54.110 --> 00:50:03.000 Carol Orsborn: Here it is. It's spiritual aging, weekly reflections for embracing life. It's a little book you can put on your bedstead, carry it in your purse.
00:50:03.380 --> 00:50:14.009 Carol Orsborn: Well, I love the 12 step programs, and they all have these reading companions, you know, daily and weekly readers, and I've always felt there should be a 12 step program for aging.
00:50:14.550 --> 00:50:27.300 Carol Orsborn: because we're addicted to youth, right? And all the principles in the 12 step programs about, you know, surrender asking for forgiveness, making inventories and making amends. And
00:50:27.450 --> 00:50:36.988 Carol Orsborn: you're making peace with God. All that stuff it all applies, you know. But, I've been writing about spiritual edging since I got
00:50:37.780 --> 00:50:47.309 Carol Orsborn: about the around the time I got my doctorate. So there have been like 5 or 6 books, and I wouldn't have written another one. However.
00:50:47.310 --> 00:50:47.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:50:47.630 --> 00:50:57.520 Carol Orsborn: I started dreaming, and during Covid very rich period for me, I started, not only recording my dreams, and not only analyzing them, but drawing them.
00:50:57.980 --> 00:50:58.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh!
00:50:58.730 --> 00:51:25.519 Carol Orsborn: I really had fun just. I'm a cartoonist, if anything, you know, but you know there would be the monster sitting on the mushroom, and I had so much fun I really did, but it felt like every dream was teaching me something, and so what I did is on a separate piece of not not paper, because I was at my computer, but I would just record the meaning of the dream. All the imagery would drop away so it would be something like
00:51:26.606 --> 00:51:40.350 Carol Orsborn: you don't need people's approval anymore, because you've reached a point of your life when you know and at at a certain point. I had a thousand dreams.
00:51:40.730 --> 00:51:46.940 Carol Orsborn: and and I thought, you know, and it was on a sort of a trajectory of learning. And I thought.
00:51:46.940 --> 00:52:12.550 Carol Orsborn: I want to do something with these. What shall I do with them? And that's when I came up with the idea of weekly readings. And so I went through my 1,000 dreams, and I picked well, let me see this 52 weeks in a year. So I picked 2 years worth so but then I also have a 5th week for the bonus years. You know, we have 5 weeks. So there's, you know, close to 200 readings, and they're on every subject, because you know what was going on in my Psyche
00:52:12.550 --> 00:52:33.480 Carol Orsborn: had to do with jealousy, insecurity. What does it mean to be a nobody, you know. Why aren't I enlightened yet? I'm sick. What do I do? Somebody I love is sick, and I organized them, which took a lot of time, so that over a 2 year period you're going to touch. You're going to have a daily reading
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:54.590 Carol Orsborn: that's going to touch every topic that could possibly happen to you in aging with an index in the back. So you know, there's a lot of serendipity. So you know right now at what week are we in? We're in the 1st week of May right now. The reading is about regret, and there's a lot to regret right now, same as your blog. You know. It's like.
00:52:55.170 --> 00:53:06.999 Carol Orsborn: it's serendipity. Gee, it's really perfect. People are regretting like crazy. So you read that reading. But let's say you're dealing with jealousy. And that's not this week's reading, go to the index, and then look up jealousy and go to that date.
00:53:07.170 --> 00:53:07.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:53:07.560 --> 00:53:16.669 Carol Orsborn: So after this book, while it was being circulated, a lot of people were saying this would really be fun to talk about with a group.
00:53:16.820 --> 00:53:31.490 Carol Orsborn: So you may remember the women's movement of the seventies, and also the men's movement of people just talking, and there was also nothing like that about aging. And so I went to substack, and for every reading in the book I did a study guide
00:53:31.610 --> 00:53:32.150 Carol Orsborn: and.
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:54.600 Carol Orsborn: And that's where saging comes in. Individuals subscribe to my sub stack, and it's not surprisingly it's spiritual aging at substack. But people were coming and doing it individually, journaling, using the study guides timed. They come out one a week with the book.
00:53:54.820 --> 00:54:11.010 Carol Orsborn: but they were also finding each other. We have a chat function, and people were finding out. Oh, let's do it online, or I'm going to take this to my church, or I'm going to do this at my senior center. And then I landed a really really big fish, because saging international
00:54:11.080 --> 00:54:32.339 Carol Orsborn: is the largest global organization dealing with conscious aging. But conscious aging is the bigger umbrella that includes spiritual aging, and it was founded by Reb Zalman Shakhtar Shalomi, who wrote a book called From Aging to Saging.
00:54:32.540 --> 00:54:48.809 Carol Orsborn: and he was buddies with RAM Dass and the whole gang from the sixties. That whole consciousness movement gang, as I got older, started coming together, and being part of this thing called saging, which continues today.
00:54:48.930 --> 00:54:55.500 Carol Orsborn: And it's a new generation of leadership. Those guys are gone. And then we who, you know, grew up
00:54:55.780 --> 00:55:04.870 Carol Orsborn: imbibing on. These people are ripening right? And so they asked me to lead a year of reflection
00:55:04.890 --> 00:55:34.570 Carol Orsborn: based on the book. And so I'm really excited. I lead it once a month. But people come from around the world and and are in small groups. The group I lead is quite large, but they're in small groups led by facilitators that are trained by this aging group, and to meet with the same group for a whole year, multiple times a month. So you know you don't have to age alone anymore. I would love to have seen your mother join one of these, and I do. I have people, you know.
00:55:34.570 --> 00:55:43.109 Carol Orsborn: joining these from hospital beds and assisted living facilities. And it's really a different experience
00:55:43.670 --> 00:55:46.429 Carol Orsborn: if you don't feel that you have to age alone.
00:55:46.830 --> 00:55:47.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:55:47.230 --> 00:55:51.729 Carol Orsborn: If you could share your experiences and and be heard.
00:55:52.020 --> 00:55:56.099 Carol Orsborn: And so, you know, I've got several 1,000 doing this.
00:55:56.560 --> 00:55:57.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful.
00:55:57.540 --> 00:55:58.320 Carol Orsborn: Yeah.
00:55:59.200 --> 00:56:01.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful! Oh, I love that! I love that.
00:56:02.250 --> 00:56:15.409 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know, since you mentioned Rob Dass a couple of times, and people from the sixties. So I just have to ask, because one topic I touch upon on my show, many quite often is psychedelics. And they've done a number of psychedelic studies
00:56:15.600 --> 00:56:31.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: for the end of life, anxiety helping people to to get to a point where they're more at peace with, you know, especially people with terminal cancer and things like that. I'm curious. Your view of that.
00:56:32.060 --> 00:56:32.740 Carol Orsborn: Huh!
00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:43.749 Carol Orsborn: I guess I should learn more. I really haven't thought of much about it. I personally, I I don't like the idea of bad trips, you know, especially at the end.
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:49.860 Carol Orsborn: I'm I'm doing it the old fashioned way, you know. Meditation, journaling, dream analysis.
00:56:50.697 --> 00:56:52.340 Carol Orsborn: You know. I
00:56:53.350 --> 00:56:59.179 Carol Orsborn: I like to have control over my life, and that's the thing about aging and mortality that kicks our butts, isn't it?
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.785 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's absolutely.
00:57:02.330 --> 00:57:02.700 Carol Orsborn: Yeah.
00:57:02.700 --> 00:57:27.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You know, I've just always felt since I was a kid, and you know I was a voracious reader when I was younger of Science Fiction, and I've read all these Science Fiction books and some that expose you to crazy ideas like, you know. In the future we'll be able to live to a thousand years old or something, and it just always appealed to me because I always felt like, Okay, look, I don't have to live forever, but a hundred years, or even 70 to 80 years, just doesn't seem like that long like I felt like.
00:57:27.500 --> 00:57:28.350 Carol Orsborn: If we could just.
00:57:28.350 --> 00:57:30.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Extended a bit to like
00:57:30.870 --> 00:57:37.292 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: 2, 3, 400 years like. Then at least, we find some real maturity in society, right.
00:57:37.670 --> 00:57:41.750 Carol Orsborn: Yeah, but I don't know. So it's 77, I think.
00:57:42.100 --> 00:57:47.002 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: As the aches and pains accumulate. I think a hundred sounds about right.
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:55.030 Carol Orsborn: It's really, that's the other thing I mean our society. It's like, you know, how long is your lifespan? You know. It's like.
00:57:56.130 --> 00:57:56.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Come!
00:57:56.450 --> 00:58:03.890 Carol Orsborn: Varying lifespans, as if having a longer lifespan, is just another way of stroking your ego.
00:58:03.890 --> 00:58:05.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes.
00:58:05.080 --> 00:58:10.080 Carol Orsborn: We. We all live exactly the length of life we ought to be living, and
00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:22.779 Carol Orsborn: one does not compare to another. And I'm a big believer in quality of life. And I also feel that that we've come. We we are here for a purpose, and once we've achieved that purpose.
00:58:22.780 --> 00:58:45.239 Carol Orsborn: it's wonderful if God wants us to keep us hanging around for a while to enjoy, you know, to bask in it. But I also think there is something about that, that sense that I was talking about Tolstoy and the Hospice people, that that sense of completion, if you're kicking around long enough, you know, waiting, waiting for something better to come along. It's like, maybe maybe it's a blessing to get it.
00:58:45.340 --> 00:58:46.360 Carol Orsborn: you know.
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:48.814 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, well, Carol, unfortunately we have to leave it there.
00:58:49.060 --> 00:58:52.401 Carol Orsborn: Oh, my God, no! It's a terrible place to leave it there.
00:58:52.680 --> 00:59:04.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I could talk with you for hours. It's it's been a pleasure having you on the show. And I love talking about these important topics that aren't necessarily talked about enough in in polite company, as they say.
00:59:04.450 --> 00:59:07.089 Carol Orsborn: When you look at my last statement, you know why they're not talk to me.
00:59:07.090 --> 00:59:22.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, though, I do have to say what you said before about sort of the mystical experience. When someone dies, I have a couple of friends who were Death Doulas. And they often talk about what a beautiful experience is when they help someone transition.
00:59:22.720 --> 00:59:33.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So if people want to learn more about you or and and we'll have the link to your book, or about saging International. Where can they find you? How can they get in touch with you?
00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:38.780 Carol Orsborn: Great. The Central Repository is just my name carolorsborne.com.
00:59:39.040 --> 00:59:48.649 Carol Orsborn: And it's it's on the book title. So if and I'm sure it's on your website. But just notice that Oarsborne is spelled with a couple of R's in it.
00:59:48.650 --> 00:59:51.210 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah. Osborne, ORSB. OR.
00:59:52.310 --> 01:00:01.349 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Carol, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. If if you make it to New York City. Please let me know I'd be happy to get together and take you out for a couple of.
01:00:01.350 --> 01:00:01.710 Carol Orsborn: Thank you.
01:00:01.710 --> 01:00:02.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Something. Okay.
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:04.409 Carol Orsborn: Thank you very much.
01:00:04.410 --> 01:00:05.320 Carol Orsborn: Absolutely.
01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:07.119 Carol Orsborn: Thanks, Sam. I'm glad we made it happen.
01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:25.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, me, too, me, too, and of course thank you, my loyal listeners, for tuning in each week. Without you there is no show, and don't forget. If you did miss any part of today's show, you can always catch the replay on talkradio, dot, Nyc. And on all the major podcasting platforms. Thank you all for tuning in. We will talk to you all next week.
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