EPISODE SUMMARY:
This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam is pleased to welcome Educator, Author, & Leader in Psychedelic Wellness, Matt Zemon.
Matt is the author of two best-selling books: Psychedelics for Everyone: A Beginner’s Guide to These Powerful Medicines for Anxiety, Depression, Addiction, PTSD, & Expanding Consciousness and Beyond the Trip: A Journal for Psychedelic Preparation and Integration.
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Matt holds a Master’s degree from King’s College London and specializes in the impact of psychedelics on mental health, focusing on their potential to catalyze profound personal transformations.
Matt’s latest book, The Veterans Guide to Psychedelics, was developed in collaboration with the Heroic Hearts Project. This workbook unlocks the transformative power of psychedelics with guidance tailored specifically for veterans.
Bridging ancient healing traditions with the latest in preparation and integration practices, it offers a comprehensive path toward peace, understanding, and lasting change. Designed to support veterans in overcoming challenges such as PTSD, anxiety, or depression, it features expert insights, and practical exercises, offering a holistic approach to healing and growth. All proceeds from the book are donated to the Heroic Hearts Project.
Tune in and share your questions and comments about your experiences with psychedelics and healing on our YouTube livestream or on our Facebook page.
https://heroicheartsproject.org/
00:00:45.410 --> 00:00:55.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon, my conscious co-creators. Welcome to another edition of the conscious Consultant hour awakening humanity.
00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:10.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We've got another wonderful show in store for you. I have an amazing guest that I'm really looking forward to having a wonderful conversation with.
00:01:10.450 --> 00:01:24.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But first, st of course, we have my blog post from a couple of years ago, just taking them in order and seeing how they align with our show each week. And so today's blog post is entitled.
00:01:24.830 --> 00:01:32.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Myths are powerful metaphors to inspire us to live a better life.
00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:36.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We all love stories.
00:01:36.510 --> 00:01:41.880 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: ancient stories, modern stories and everything in between.
00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:45.329 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Some of these stories are more profound.
00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:47.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so they turn into myths
00:01:48.320 --> 00:01:52.539 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and myths, turn a story into something very special.
00:01:53.420 --> 00:01:58.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Myths, touch upon something very deep and fundamental to our nature.
00:01:59.350 --> 00:02:04.009 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They capture the essence of what it means to be human.
00:02:04.490 --> 00:02:11.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and they raise our awareness and our consciousness of how to live a better life.
00:02:12.980 --> 00:02:15.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There is something very.
00:02:15.090 --> 00:02:18.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There's something very archetypal about myths
00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:22.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that that yet they are not to be taken literally.
00:02:23.090 --> 00:02:28.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Unfortunately, there are many myths in the world that are taken too literally.
00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:35.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When that happens, we hold on to the allegory or the metaphor tightly.
00:02:35.970 --> 00:02:38.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We believe they are true and real
00:02:39.530 --> 00:02:45.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when they are meant to be an indication of something, not the thing itself.
00:02:47.090 --> 00:02:49.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is what happened in religion.
00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:56.940 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: powerful myth around. How to grow spiritually has been codified and turned into a history.
00:02:57.490 --> 00:02:58.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when, in fact.
00:02:58.750 --> 00:03:04.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the stories were meant to inspire and inform our own spiritual journey.
00:03:06.050 --> 00:03:11.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They were not meant to limit us or raise us above anyone else.
00:03:12.390 --> 00:03:19.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: These stories are archetypal stories of how to transform our own consciousness into something greater.
00:03:19.570 --> 00:03:21.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: something grander.
00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:23.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: something more heroic.
00:03:25.070 --> 00:03:26.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The myth is a map.
00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:29.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not the territory.
00:03:30.230 --> 00:03:33.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It is something to stir up our soul
00:03:33.420 --> 00:03:38.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and call us to be the greater person we dream of being.
00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:44.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Myths are powerful symbols and characters to inform us and teach us
00:03:45.160 --> 00:03:47.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to teach us how to be better people.
00:03:48.010 --> 00:03:50.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how to deal with challenges.
00:03:50.230 --> 00:03:55.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and how to rise above the confusion of life.
00:03:56.350 --> 00:04:01.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The same way a modern movie can be a myth for modern times.
00:04:01.610 --> 00:04:05.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet they are not something to be taken as reality.
00:04:07.440 --> 00:04:15.600 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, too, the myths of ancient times are not to be taken as a literal story of actual events.
00:04:16.290 --> 00:04:18.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They are so much greater than that
00:04:19.390 --> 00:04:25.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to take a myth as a literal story does a great disservice to the myth
00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:28.170 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and to ourselves.
00:04:29.610 --> 00:04:34.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So is there a myth that inspires you in your own life
00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:38.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can you learn from myths old and new?
00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:44.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So I wrote this post a couple of years ago?
00:04:44.899 --> 00:04:50.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It was after a session with my mentor, Armand.
00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:55.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and he talked about how the myth is not. That
00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:58.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is the map, not the territory.
00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:01.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and that kind of inspired me
00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:05.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: inspired this blog post.
00:05:05.990 --> 00:05:08.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because I find
00:05:09.400 --> 00:05:10.699 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so often
00:05:11.900 --> 00:05:13.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that we
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:14.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: tend to take these
00:05:15.670 --> 00:05:18.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: very powerful stories.
00:05:18.130 --> 00:05:23.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the sometimes these origin stories of of where ideas
00:05:23.640 --> 00:05:24.800 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: come from
00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:27.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and take them so literally.
00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:34.450 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and you know, I say they're not real stories, but perhaps they are. Maybe there is
00:05:34.470 --> 00:05:38.100 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: a real story behind these myths
00:05:38.110 --> 00:05:40.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that inspire us so, and and
00:05:41.200 --> 00:05:44.399 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: take us to a deeper place in ourselves.
00:05:46.440 --> 00:05:53.519 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it's almost that the real story behind the myth isn't really
00:05:54.880 --> 00:05:56.159 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that important.
00:05:57.030 --> 00:05:58.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not as important to
00:05:59.110 --> 00:06:02.260 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: compared to what the myth is trying to teach us
00:06:03.550 --> 00:06:05.739 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: as to the lessons of
00:06:06.170 --> 00:06:14.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how we can transform ourselves, how what it is like for us to go on our own personal spiritual journey.
00:06:15.490 --> 00:06:19.530 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the challenges, the tragedies, the triumphs.
00:06:22.960 --> 00:06:24.360 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: One of the
00:06:24.750 --> 00:06:30.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: most popular myths that's used over and over again that Joseph Campbell
00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:31.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: really
00:06:31.750 --> 00:06:32.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: made
00:06:32.860 --> 00:06:36.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: aware to people, is the hero's journey.
00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:44.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and these days I see many takes on the hero's journey.
00:06:44.340 --> 00:06:46.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and in some ways
00:06:46.220 --> 00:06:58.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it's gone from an individual hero's journey to a collective hero's journey, or or or or a team, a group of heroes, their journey.
00:07:02.200 --> 00:07:06.639 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and when we feel lost. And when we feel like we're not sure
00:07:07.190 --> 00:07:09.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: where to go next. And what to do.
00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:11.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: These myths.
00:07:12.130 --> 00:07:14.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: these archetypal stories.
00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:16.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: these
00:07:16.850 --> 00:07:21.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: these tales that are infused with so much energy
00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can give us a roadmap
00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:28.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can give us guidance
00:07:28.820 --> 00:07:31.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: even in modern times.
00:07:31.940 --> 00:07:38.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: even when we feel that all these ancient myths they're so old. They have no relevancy to today.
00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:44.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No. The reason why they've endured and they've survived over the centuries
00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:48.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: is because they are timeless
00:07:48.150 --> 00:07:50.640 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: because they are relevant
00:07:50.940 --> 00:07:55.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: regardless to what we're going through in any given era.
00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:02.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So it does not matter how quote unquote, advanced. We are
00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:04.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: technologically
00:08:05.470 --> 00:08:08.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how advanced we are as a civilization.
00:08:08.850 --> 00:08:14.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: these myths, these stories that inform our souls.
00:08:15.020 --> 00:08:17.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They're quite powerful indeed.
00:08:18.080 --> 00:08:25.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: this is not to say they don't evolve, and this is not to say that we don't find new ways of applying them
00:08:25.960 --> 00:08:28.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to our current life.
00:08:32.880 --> 00:08:36.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it's just to bring to awareness and to honor
00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: these ancient stories, and how they play out in our own life.
00:08:41.760 --> 00:08:46.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And this is why astrology is such a powerful tool.
00:08:46.680 --> 00:08:51.809 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: When we we used to have a gentleman who has since unfortunately passed
00:08:51.990 --> 00:09:06.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Monty Taylor, who did a show with us, living consciously. It was all about the myths and the archetypes behind astrology, and and looking at astrology, and how these stories play out in our lives.
00:09:06.980 --> 00:09:10.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and it's really a very rich show.
00:09:11.030 --> 00:09:17.240 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and one of my favorite show of my of the old shows on the network. So I highly recommend it.
00:09:19.630 --> 00:09:20.490 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So
00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:25.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we're in the middle of a great transition right now.
00:09:25.930 --> 00:09:27.799 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe there's some myths.
00:09:28.090 --> 00:09:32.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Maybe there's some legends. Maybe there's some stories out there
00:09:32.630 --> 00:09:35.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that can support us and guide us
00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:40.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: through this time of great transition, whether we're struggling with it or not.
00:09:40.920 --> 00:09:45.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: about how to be present to what our reality is today.
00:09:47.450 --> 00:09:48.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So
00:09:48.490 --> 00:09:51.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: take a look. What are your favorite myths.
00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.580 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: what inspires you.
00:09:53.870 --> 00:09:57.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and what can continue to inspire you throughout this time.
00:09:58.870 --> 00:10:07.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hope that helps. I hope you liked it. That's my blog for this week. It's myths are powerful metaphors to inspire us to live a better life.
00:10:07.790 --> 00:10:22.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Of course, you can always find find my blog post on my personally branded website, theconsciousconsultant.com, and on the talk radio website, talkradio, dot Nyc slash blog.
00:10:23.030 --> 00:10:32.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And now it is my extreme pleasure to welcome to the show educator, author, and leader in psychedelic wellness. Matt Zaman
00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:47.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Matt is the author of 2 bestselling books, psychedelics for everyone, a Beginner's Guide to these powerful medicines for anxiety, depression, addiction, Ptsd and expanded consciousness. And beyond the trip a journal for Psychedelic preparation and integration.
00:10:48.010 --> 00:10:54.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Matt holds a Master's degree from King's College, London, and specializes in the impact of psychedelics on mental health.
00:10:54.760 --> 00:10:59.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: focusing on their potential to catalyze profound personal transformations.
00:10:59.960 --> 00:11:07.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: His latest book, The Veteran's Guide to Psychedelics, was developed in collaboration with the Heroic Hearts Project.
00:11:07.880 --> 00:11:15.269 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This workbook unlocks the transformative power of psychedelics with guidance, tailored specifically for veterans
00:11:15.430 --> 00:11:39.290 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: bridging ancient healing traditions with the latest preparation and integration, practices. It offers a comprehensive path towards peace understanding and lasting change designed to support veterans and overcoming challenges, such as Ptsd. Anxiety or depression. It features expert insights and practical exercises, and a holistic approach for healing and growth.
00:11:39.510 --> 00:11:47.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And I just want to point out that all proceeds from the book are donated to the Heroic hearts. Project a wonderful nonprofit.
00:11:47.530 --> 00:11:49.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Welcome to the show, Matt.
00:11:49.910 --> 00:11:53.019 Matt Zemon: Sam, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:11:53.020 --> 00:12:10.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful to have you. I've been really looking forward to this. I always like to start off my interviews, kind of asking the background questions to give my audience a little bit of an idea of who you are as a person. So let's just start with.
00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:12.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like, what is it about
00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:17.520 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: psychedelics and healing. That sort of attracted you to this
00:12:17.570 --> 00:12:32.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: aspect of it, because there's so many different modalities, so many different paths towards healing. What was it about psychedelics that really attracted you, that that it really called you to make this a staple in what you do.
00:12:33.444 --> 00:12:43.930 Matt Zemon: That's a funny question. Because I I really fell into this by accident, Sam. I had a some friends invited me to a guided magic mushroom experience.
00:12:44.290 --> 00:12:52.419 Matt Zemon: I didn't do that kind of thing. I was a father and a husband and a business owner, and that wasn't in my wheelhouse, but something inside of me said yes.
00:12:52.770 --> 00:12:57.699 Matt Zemon: and that 1st experience completely changed the way I look at the world I mean
00:12:58.270 --> 00:12:58.940 Matt Zemon: hell.
00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:11.690 Matt Zemon: I felt completely connected to everything I felt unconditionally loved. I reconnected with my mom, who had died when I was 22, and she was 49, and that 1st experience
00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:18.940 Matt Zemon: and I knew I left, and I was like, what the hell was this? And I knew I wanted to learn more, and I went back to school.
00:13:19.070 --> 00:13:25.049 Matt Zemon: I got a master's in psychology and neuroscience focused on psychedelic medicine. And I traveled the world and I tried
00:13:25.140 --> 00:13:31.229 Matt Zemon: different psychedelics with Shaman and Maestros and Taitas and Mds and Phds, and.
00:13:32.660 --> 00:13:41.470 Matt Zemon: yeah, I'm just trying trying to learn as much as possible. I'm now in a doctor of Ministry programming. This is such a radical shift in my life.
00:13:42.425 --> 00:13:42.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Since.
00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:44.920 Matt Zemon: 1st experience, and
00:13:45.020 --> 00:13:47.939 Matt Zemon: I can't imagine not having done this.
00:13:47.940 --> 00:14:04.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'm curious. As you said, you're a father. You were a husband, a business owner after you had that experience, and you started to make all these shifts in your life. Your family, your friends, must have been, Matt. What the hell's going on with you.
00:14:05.110 --> 00:14:07.882 Matt Zemon: You know what it just fell into place. My
00:14:08.290 --> 00:14:20.070 Matt Zemon: I formed better relationships with my children and my wife. I have more time for friends. I used to just work all the time, and now I spend quite a lot of time community building.
00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:20.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: More.
00:14:21.084 --> 00:14:28.760 Matt Zemon: Yeah. So I think it fell into place. And and they, yeah, they say, there's there's definitely something different. But it's it's not at all in a negative way.
00:14:29.237 --> 00:14:33.359 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful, wonderful! And and how long ago was that 1st experience for you.
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:34.820 Matt Zemon: About 6 years, now.
00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:38.270 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: About 6 years. Wow! So actually, not all that long.
00:14:38.270 --> 00:14:45.689 Matt Zemon: No, not not relative to to the the indigenous wisdom keepers who've been holding this for thousands of years. No, not that long at all.
00:14:45.690 --> 00:14:46.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, that's kind of it.
00:14:46.790 --> 00:14:49.750 Matt Zemon: The trick about this space is that all of us
00:14:49.790 --> 00:14:51.470 Matt Zemon: are new into this space.
00:14:51.470 --> 00:14:52.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:14:52.450 --> 00:15:06.560 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yes, oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I've sat with the tribes. I've sat with the Hunikun tribe down in Peru last year, and and you know, I've met people who've studied with many of the indigenous elders.
00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:08.729 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And it it's
00:15:08.990 --> 00:15:11.689 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so fascinating. And we do have this
00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:35.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: very short-sighted view sometimes of these healing practices. And we think this is new and amazing, because because Lsd was 1st discovered in 1944, the same year that the atomic bomb was dropped. But actually, these practices and these medicines have been around for thousands and thousands of years, haven't they.
00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:41.269 Matt Zemon: They really have. We have. We have cave paintings, we have, lots of art and archeology from
00:15:41.400 --> 00:15:51.139 Matt Zemon: certainly 4, 5, 6,000 BC, and then, yeah, and and everywhere in the world. And that's, I think, something I did not know. Going into this, I had always thought that
00:15:51.380 --> 00:16:10.119 Matt Zemon: psychedelics were kind of Central and South American Mexican. I didn't realize that we had mushroom shaman in Africa, that we had iboga over there, that we had witches burned all across Europe that we had mushroom shaman in Siberia. Yeah, just. I didn't realize that we all have a psychedelic lineage.
00:16:10.350 --> 00:16:14.909 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and I, I just remember hearing not that long ago that
00:16:15.020 --> 00:16:27.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: they found traces of ergo, the the mold that Lsd is derived from in vessels in the In, like some ancient Greek temples, or something that were, you know, thousands of years old. So
00:16:27.680 --> 00:16:29.770 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it's definitely
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:31.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: been around.
00:16:31.760 --> 00:16:33.752 Matt Zemon: Absolutely. Yeah. That particular
00:16:34.280 --> 00:16:36.270 Matt Zemon: study you're talking about is, is.
00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:52.569 Matt Zemon: there are a couple different theories of the origins of Christianity, and one of them is that the early Christians took the wisdom from the mysteries of the Eleucian mysteries in Greece that had happened for 2,000 years. I mean, these ceremonies lasted
00:16:52.880 --> 00:17:01.689 Matt Zemon: 2,000 years, and they took him into a underground caves, and it became kind of the initial communion, for Christianity is is the.
00:17:01.690 --> 00:17:03.250 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thesis.
00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:16.310 Matt Zemon: Carl Ruck up in Boston. The Immortality Key is kind of a fun book if you want to explore that, and so are the psychedelic Gospels is another good fun book to explore those theories.
00:17:16.490 --> 00:17:26.540 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Again, the idea that that there's this myth that we hold on to so literally, and and maybe it's a little more allegorical than we'd like to
00:17:26.609 --> 00:17:36.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: give credit for. All right, we got to take our 1st break when we come back. Let's dive into why, you became an author and started to write about this and what that
00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:45.740 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: path has been like. And then we'll eventually get around to your most recent book specifically for veterans. And why that's such an important topic. Okay?
00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:47.020 Matt Zemon: That sounds like a plan.
00:17:47.150 --> 00:18:05.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We do this every Thursday 12 noon to one pm, Eastern time, right here on Talkradio, dot Nyc. And all over social media, and we'll be right back with our guest, Matt Zayman, in just a moment.
00:20:21.380 --> 00:20:39.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And welcome back to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. We're speaking this hour with Author Matt Zayman, author of the book, Psychedelics for everyone beyond the trip, and a veteran's guide to psychedelics. So, Matt, you had this powerful experience.
00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:47.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You went and you started to study all about it. It really affected your life. It changed. You know how you showed up in the world.
00:20:47.300 --> 00:21:01.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Why did you just start to write about this? Why did you decide that like. Oh, especially your 1st book, Psychedelics for everyone like what inspired that. And what made you feel like this was a message that you needed to get out there in the world.
00:21:02.740 --> 00:21:12.990 Matt Zemon: So I got frustrated, Sam. A lot of the literature out there is either too scientific, and I couldn't understand it or read it, or it was too woo woo!
00:21:13.060 --> 00:21:16.249 Matt Zemon: And I felt like we needed something in between.
00:21:16.590 --> 00:21:26.129 Matt Zemon: I also felt I really wasn't qualified to write about it. So what I did in the 1st book is I wrote my personal, a few personal stories of how
00:21:26.340 --> 00:21:28.489 Matt Zemon: psychedelics have impacted me.
00:21:28.670 --> 00:21:33.030 Matt Zemon: But then I hired really amazing writers to
00:21:33.260 --> 00:21:37.519 Matt Zemon: create each of the different sections because we talk about a number of different
00:21:38.215 --> 00:21:40.539 Matt Zemon: psychedelics. And then I hired
00:21:41.190 --> 00:21:46.140 Matt Zemon: medical people to review the chapter. So I had kind of a two-step process.
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:46.510 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Rachel.
00:21:46.510 --> 00:21:52.099 Matt Zemon: Thing to make sure that while it was accessible and in kind of common language
00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:53.339 Matt Zemon: it was accurate.
00:21:53.560 --> 00:21:59.020 Matt Zemon: So that's what psychedelics for everyone was the beyond. The trip came out of
00:21:59.140 --> 00:22:13.070 Matt Zemon: just doing more and more of this work and wanting a process. How do I prepare and set my intentions? Then, when I have my journeys, how do I quickly document my notes in some kind of structured format.
00:22:13.300 --> 00:22:17.350 Matt Zemon: and then following it that 30 days of neuroplasticity.
00:22:17.550 --> 00:22:26.619 Matt Zemon: how do I kind of do an exercise each week? And then maybe a gratitude journal every day for those 30 days to help retrain my mind for the positive.
00:22:26.830 --> 00:22:34.710 Matt Zemon: So that's what that book was about. It's really a hands-on workbook for people to use for preparation and integration. And then the veterans guide
00:22:35.528 --> 00:22:38.320 Matt Zemon: was my 1st attempt to.
00:22:38.540 --> 00:22:39.720 Matt Zemon: How do I make?
00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:46.499 Matt Zemon: How do I help enable veterans to make an informed decision on whether they want to use psychedelics or not
00:22:46.750 --> 00:22:57.250 Matt Zemon: so at this point in my life. I felt like I was more than competent to write that, but I also wanted help. So I worked with a guy named Ken Weingard, who is a 20 years with the Va.
00:22:57.420 --> 00:23:03.600 Matt Zemon: And I worked with Jared Reinhart, who is the integration specialist for Heroic Hearts Project.
00:23:03.790 --> 00:23:16.650 Matt Zemon: To make sure we got the language right, that it was accessible, that we put in things like checklists and things that would be big, bigger fonts think that things that are important to people who have Ptsd or traumatic brain injury.
00:23:17.207 --> 00:23:23.449 Matt Zemon: And then added some more exercises. And then we have coming out soon a coaching therapist edition
00:23:23.470 --> 00:23:29.629 Matt Zemon: that a coach and therapist can use alongside of their their veteran participants.
00:23:29.790 --> 00:23:34.960 Matt Zemon: Or again informed consent. Preparation, journey, notes, integration.
00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:45.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow! Wonderful, wonderful! Well, I love the fact that you created the beyond the trip, specifically focusing on preparation and integration, because
00:23:45.700 --> 00:23:59.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: while there is a lot of talk around psychedelics these days, and you know, I mean, there's a lot of talk, pro and con and everything going on. But it's definitely more in the public eye than ever before.
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:02.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But you don't hear quite as much about
00:24:02.230 --> 00:24:04.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how do you prepare properly?
00:24:04.350 --> 00:24:14.889 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How do you choose a guide properly. What do you do afterwards? The integration aspect, and in speaking with people who, I feel are very.
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:35.659 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not so much professional, but very serious about this work, and really well informed, well trained. They all say like integration is the key right? Because you go. And you have this extreme experience, and it's great and can be life transformative. But unless you're applying it to your day to day life, it's not really doing you that much good, is it?
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:51.130 Matt Zemon: That's certainly what I believe. I mean, I think there are ways. There are 3 main ways that people access psychedelics in America. Some want a medical model. They want to be greeted by a person in a white coat. They want a diagnosis, and they want to
00:24:51.590 --> 00:24:54.880 Matt Zemon: take a psychedelic in relation to a treatment plan.
00:24:55.020 --> 00:24:55.660 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Think that's beautiful.
00:24:55.660 --> 00:24:59.560 Matt Zemon: And that's important. That's and we have legal ketamine in all 50 states, and the.
00:25:00.150 --> 00:25:11.899 Matt Zemon: Oregon and Colorado have their access points. So I think that's important. Others take more of a decriminalization approach. They say no adult should tell another adult that they can't put nature in their body.
00:25:12.241 --> 00:25:18.350 Matt Zemon: Okay? And that can be recreational. It can be an access issue. So people can't afford the medical model.
00:25:18.350 --> 00:25:18.700 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Can, still.
00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:20.930 Matt Zemon: Have access. Okay, I think that's important.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.119 Matt Zemon: And then we have the ceremonial
00:25:23.622 --> 00:25:27.510 Matt Zemon: use, which is really, historically, how it's been used.
00:25:27.510 --> 00:25:27.850 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: -
00:25:27.850 --> 00:25:40.919 Matt Zemon: And in ceremony there is typically some type of preparation for the ceremony. So in Ayahuasca, which you referenced earlier, it's this whole diet that takes a few weeks or longer where you're preparing your body
00:25:40.970 --> 00:25:46.970 Matt Zemon: and your mind and your spirit for what's about to happen. Then there's the ceremony.
00:25:47.100 --> 00:25:52.769 Matt Zemon: and then there is historically, there's there's integration back into the community in our society
00:25:52.860 --> 00:25:58.249 Matt Zemon: because we are so isolated and we don't have community built into our everyday lives.
00:25:58.250 --> 00:25:58.750 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:25:59.410 --> 00:26:06.540 Matt Zemon: We kind of need to force it with with activities and with either working with a therapist or a coach or a spiritual community.
00:26:07.208 --> 00:26:10.529 Matt Zemon: But there. So there's multiple ways to do integration.
00:26:10.850 --> 00:26:18.209 Matt Zemon: But if the intention of the person taking the psychedelic is real, meaningful, lasting change.
00:26:18.740 --> 00:26:20.419 Matt Zemon: the work starts
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:23.480 Matt Zemon: well before the the psychedelic is ingested and.
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:23.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes.
00:26:23.820 --> 00:26:25.450 Matt Zemon: Use for the rest of your life.
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:36.139 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I've heard many people say that the journey actually begins the moment you commit to going to the journey, not when you actually show up for it.
00:26:36.380 --> 00:26:38.820 Matt Zemon: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a good. That's a good statement.
00:26:38.820 --> 00:26:40.340 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah.
00:26:43.040 --> 00:26:44.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So
00:26:44.407 --> 00:26:56.559 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: when you came out with psychedelics for everyone, I mean, that's a pretty bold statement, meaning like, anybody can take this stuff. Anybody can use this stuff. Do you really believe this is for everyone.
00:26:56.850 --> 00:27:00.979 Matt Zemon: So what I meant by the title is that they're good for society, but.
00:27:00.980 --> 00:27:01.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Sir.
00:27:01.430 --> 00:27:07.409 Matt Zemon: Don't mean that everyone should take a psychedelic. There are definitely people who have existing pre-existing conditions.
00:27:07.410 --> 00:27:08.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:11.880 Matt Zemon: Are people who are taking various medications for supplements.
00:27:11.990 --> 00:27:24.140 Matt Zemon: I am not a medical doctor, so if this is something you're considering, I strongly recommend you. You talk to a healthcare professional, or go to spiritpharmacist.com and talk with Ben Malcolm.
00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:24.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And Malcolm, yeah.
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:26.619 Matt Zemon: Yeah, do it. Do an intake there.
00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.639 Matt Zemon: but no, psychedelics aren't for everyone to take
00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:40.289 Matt Zemon: And I also like talking about how I never use the word safe when it comes to psychedelics. I use risk reduced so.
00:27:40.290 --> 00:27:41.110 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I don't know.
00:27:41.110 --> 00:27:58.869 Matt Zemon: I introduced, I'd like to talk about is this concept of relative risk? So we can say, Okay, let's look at this. This Dr. Nut study from Imperial College of London, where he said, What's the harm to self and harm to others? And alcohol is the most dangerous as a 72, and you go all the way down his chart, and you get to Psilocybin, which is a 6. Okay, great.
00:27:58.870 --> 00:27:59.410 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm.
00:27:59.410 --> 00:28:01.899 Matt Zemon: Way less dangerous, and
00:28:02.010 --> 00:28:05.139 Matt Zemon: a lot of harm can happen in that sex.
00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:06.120 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: It's just like.
00:28:06.120 --> 00:28:07.900 Matt Zemon: Likely to happen.
00:28:08.030 --> 00:28:13.650 Matt Zemon: We talk about acetamidopen in this country, so it's an active ingredient in in over the counter painkillers.
00:28:14.100 --> 00:28:17.129 Matt Zemon: 458 people a year die from Acetaminophen.
00:28:17.570 --> 00:28:18.620 Matt Zemon: So.
00:28:18.620 --> 00:28:19.080 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hello!
00:28:19.080 --> 00:28:24.080 Matt Zemon: When it comes to psychedelics there are risks there are people who have.
00:28:24.130 --> 00:28:26.440 Matt Zemon: and those risks can be mitigated.
00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:33.339 Matt Zemon: but there are risks, and people should know that going in and then make the informed decision. That's right for them.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:38.720 Matt Zemon: and we can certainly talk about how to mitigate risks if you would like, or wherever else you want to go.
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Well, I'd be curious about.
00:28:42.110 --> 00:28:45.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know a lot of people being attracted to it.
00:28:45.320 --> 00:28:51.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What do you think is an appropriate reason for someone to decide to engage with psychedelics.
00:28:52.470 --> 00:28:54.769 Matt Zemon: So appropriate, so tricky. And I'm gonna use again.
00:28:54.770 --> 00:28:55.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Excuse me.
00:28:55.260 --> 00:28:56.450 Matt Zemon: As the example.
00:28:56.620 --> 00:28:57.010 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay.
00:28:57.010 --> 00:29:05.417 Matt Zemon: I did it out of curiosity. I did. Some friends invited me. I really had low expectations. I thought it'd be fun.
00:29:06.250 --> 00:29:07.319 Matt Zemon: And then
00:29:07.700 --> 00:29:10.120 Matt Zemon: I was served a big dish of medicine.
00:29:10.540 --> 00:29:12.150 Matt Zemon: and it was phenomenal.
00:29:12.300 --> 00:29:20.079 Matt Zemon: So I think the medicine meets people for a variety of reasons. Now, that being said, if you're if you have intentions. Okay, I'm curious about this. Okay?
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:21.210 Matt Zemon: Well, then.
00:29:21.370 --> 00:29:25.450 Matt Zemon: do we have the I want to connect with source or spirit great.
00:29:26.060 --> 00:29:33.070 Matt Zemon: I want to remember who I am, and and kind of see the stories that I've layered on myself that makes sense. I want to
00:29:33.100 --> 00:29:39.659 Matt Zemon: find the root of some kind, some trauma or depression or anxiety that I'm experiencing, that makes sense.
00:29:39.890 --> 00:29:46.209 Matt Zemon: I want to reconnect with my ancestors that makes sense. I want to figure out how to think through a problem.
00:29:46.370 --> 00:29:48.830 Matt Zemon: I mean lots and lots of reasons.
00:29:49.208 --> 00:29:55.180 Matt Zemon: And certainly also breaking of repetitive thinking patterns. I have. I am thinking this way over and over and over.
00:29:55.210 --> 00:29:59.370 Matt Zemon: and I don't want to do that anymore. And I want to use this medicine to
00:29:59.510 --> 00:30:09.549 Matt Zemon: to help me. So the example I give is is when we were kids. Our minds ran all over the playgrounds, and at some point we were put on a treadmill, and no one told us.
00:30:09.830 --> 00:30:21.279 Matt Zemon: Well, the psychedelic puts our minds back on that playground, and we remember that we don't have to think about our lives or our relationships or our jobs, the way we've been thinking about them. There's other ways to think about them.
00:30:21.280 --> 00:30:22.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: No.
00:30:22.030 --> 00:30:27.599 Matt Zemon: And I love that breaking of repetitive thinking pattern component of psychedelics.
00:30:27.770 --> 00:30:31.042 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right? Right? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It definitely
00:30:31.530 --> 00:30:38.910 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: changes the way we can look at ourselves, at the world, at others in our life, a hundred percent.
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Okay, we're going to take our next break when we come back.
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:50.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Let's talk about why you decided to focus on veterans in your most recent book, and and what you see as the
00:30:51.230 --> 00:30:55.710 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: as the real benefit for veterans in dealing with psychedelics. Okay.
00:30:55.710 --> 00:30:56.440 Matt Zemon: Perfect.
00:30:56.800 --> 00:31:07.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome. So everybody, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, and we'll be right back with our guest, Matt Zaman in just a moment.
00:33:16.040 --> 00:33:33.169 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Matt, in your latest book that just came out a couple of months ago, the Veteran's Guide to Psychedelics. You're really focusing on a very target audience. Why did you decide to focus on veterans? And what do you see as being like the real benefits for veterans.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:39.589 Matt Zemon: Yeah, I appreciate that, Sam. I mean, right now, in America we have over 17 veterans killing themselves every day.
00:33:39.690 --> 00:33:41.020 Matt Zemon: and while
00:33:41.030 --> 00:33:44.960 Matt Zemon: I think 7 a little bit over 7,000 soldiers have died in
00:33:45.090 --> 00:33:47.290 Matt Zemon: active combat since 9 11,
00:33:47.530 --> 00:33:54.870 Matt Zemon: more than 30,000 soldiers and veterans have killed themselves in the same time period. It's 4. It's more than 4 times the number.
00:33:54.870 --> 00:33:55.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wow!
00:33:55.890 --> 00:33:59.810 Matt Zemon: Yeah. And and we have a population here where
00:34:02.600 --> 00:34:13.130 Matt Zemon: too many the Ssri antidepressants, which is the medicine most often prescribed, just doesn't work on enough people, and science is trying to solve for this.
00:34:13.610 --> 00:34:23.630 Matt Zemon: but it's challenging. So there was some. There was a phase, 3 trial, that a lot of us have heard about with mdma, and they gave people with treatment, resistant post-traumatic stress disorder.
00:34:23.650 --> 00:34:27.099 Matt Zemon: 3 sessions of Mdma and therapy before and after.
00:34:27.710 --> 00:34:31.399 Matt Zemon: and 77% emerged without having a
00:34:31.420 --> 00:34:33.519 Matt Zemon: Ptsd diagnosis anymore.
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:41.970 Matt Zemon: So just letting that sit in for a moment. I mean, these are when we talk about treatment resistant. That means none of the pharmacological or talk therapies have worked.
00:34:42.460 --> 00:34:49.160 Matt Zemon: And now something has worked. So unfortunately, this wasn't enough information for the FDA. They've requested another trial.
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.480 Matt Zemon: but it gives us a direction of where we're headed.
00:34:51.489 --> 00:34:59.169 Matt Zemon: And when I think about a population that really needs support, because what's happening now is, they're nonprofits like
00:34:59.683 --> 00:35:08.700 Matt Zemon: heroic hearts, project the mission within vets who are sending sending our veterans down to Central and South America into Oregon where they can legally access psychedelics.
00:35:09.660 --> 00:35:13.359 Matt Zemon: So I'm trying. I was trying to give them tools
00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:22.569 Matt Zemon: to to help them on this process. And really the idea came from Jesse Gould, who is the the founder of Heroic Hearts project. And he reached out and said, Hey, I saw one of your
00:35:22.740 --> 00:35:26.360 Matt Zemon: preparation integration books. Can you do one just for veterans
00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:27.070 Matt Zemon: and.
00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:27.589 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's a guess.
00:35:27.590 --> 00:35:28.950 Matt Zemon: Of course, let's do this.
00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:33.539 Matt Zemon: But yeah, it's just a population that really really benefits from
00:35:33.700 --> 00:35:35.000 Matt Zemon: from this type of work.
00:35:35.904 --> 00:35:46.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and why don't you speak for a moment just about heroic hearts, their mission, and and what they're really doing today for veterans.
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:50.089 Matt Zemon: I love this group. I mean they. They are really trying to
00:35:50.210 --> 00:35:53.079 Matt Zemon: help veterans with Ptsd
00:35:53.566 --> 00:36:11.170 Matt Zemon: find peace and they raise. They raise money, they offer full scholarships. So so if you get accepted into their program and you can't afford to pay for it, they will send you to Central or South America, or to Oregon on their expense. They pay for 3 individual preparation sessions, 3 group sessions.
00:36:11.170 --> 00:36:11.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: That's good.
00:36:11.550 --> 00:36:16.960 Matt Zemon: And then they do the same thing on the other side of it. So you get, I think it's 12 sessions of
00:36:17.180 --> 00:36:21.913 Matt Zemon: of coaching as well as a week of of
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:30.829 Matt Zemon: practice. So when I went down to Peru we were working with Shipibo healers with the with the veterans, and we did 3 nights of ayahuasca
00:36:31.191 --> 00:36:36.969 Matt Zemon: and it was beautiful to watch those ceremonies, and it was also beautiful to watch the integration sessions.
00:36:37.150 --> 00:36:37.500 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: See.
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:42.260 Matt Zemon: How those veterans turn those insights and awakenings and awarenesses into
00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:44.890 Matt Zemon: real, meaningful, lasting change.
00:36:45.190 --> 00:36:52.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, you you know, I've heard one. The only kind of criticism I've ever heard around
00:36:52.220 --> 00:36:57.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: using psychedelics to help veterans was, Oh, what are we doing? Just
00:36:57.600 --> 00:37:08.730 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: patching up people's Ptsd and then sending them back out to the front? Because because what happens when a veteran who's been suffering now they have this awakening, and they feel better.
00:37:09.220 --> 00:37:17.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've heard that many times. They want to rejoin and go back and and and be with their their compatriots.
00:37:18.350 --> 00:37:33.800 Matt Zemon: So a couple of things are coming up, as you say. That question, Sam. One is, I had the privilege to go to Walter Reed a few weeks ago, and spend time at their intrepid center of excellence, which is kind of like the Mayo clinic for Ptsd and traumatic brain injury.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:34.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:37:34.930 --> 00:37:40.339 Matt Zemon: Such a beautiful facility. I think they spent 75 million dollars, and they have, I think.
00:37:40.660 --> 00:37:48.279 Matt Zemon: 20 soldiers at a time that are all rotating in and live there for 30 days, and everything they need medically is there.
00:37:48.980 --> 00:38:02.499 Matt Zemon: The only sad part I heard about that is, that many of those soldiers wait to their 18th or 19th year before raising their hand and asking for help because they don't want to derail their career. So when we talk about active duty soldiers, that's kind of one thing
00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:07.649 Matt Zemon: when you talk about the veterans. These are people who've now come back into civilian life.
00:38:08.080 --> 00:38:17.369 Matt Zemon: They're having challenges with being productive members of society. They're having challenges with their family. They're having in some cases suicidal ideation.
00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:24.780 Matt Zemon: And and really experiencing profound depression and anxiety and hopelessness.
00:38:24.860 --> 00:38:26.210 Matt Zemon: so
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:33.810 Matt Zemon: unlike Western medicine, where we try to numb the pain or hide the pain with pain. With these antidepressants
00:38:33.820 --> 00:38:42.780 Matt Zemon: psychedelics bring that pain brings that pain close where they can discover it, they can understand it, and then they can transform it.
00:38:42.970 --> 00:38:48.510 Matt Zemon: and it's and I say all the time that their psychedelics aren't a cure for anything. These are catalysts.
00:38:48.700 --> 00:38:59.169 Matt Zemon: and and what I mean by that. And I'm going to continue with the veterans, and mdma, is that that doesn't magically change at the stories inside the veterans head. It puts them into a position where they can rewrite their own stories.
00:38:59.170 --> 00:38:59.830 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right.
00:38:59.830 --> 00:39:07.469 Matt Zemon: And I. And that's just so powerful, because now it's not. I've been told to feel this way or do this. It's I know what to do, because I did it.
00:39:07.640 --> 00:39:20.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right right now I've I've talked with some different facilitators, some who have worked with with veterans, and they all say, you know, veterans are a very special category. They're not like
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:25.370 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: everyone else. What do you feel are like the unique
00:39:25.580 --> 00:39:32.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: needs for veterans or the unique aspects of working with a veteran with psychedelics
00:39:32.970 --> 00:39:38.429 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: compared to just you or me coming off the street saying, Oh, I'd love to try a ceremony.
00:39:39.770 --> 00:39:41.586 Matt Zemon: So I think actually the
00:39:42.110 --> 00:39:46.850 Matt Zemon: one of the surprising things for me has been how much they are like everybody else. So when.
00:39:46.850 --> 00:39:47.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Think about.
00:39:47.620 --> 00:39:50.860 Matt Zemon: Range of human that wants to use psychedelics.
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:52.530 Matt Zemon: Some have
00:39:52.560 --> 00:40:01.539 Matt Zemon: are experiencing mild cases of depression or anxiety, or having an existential crisis, or trying to figure out what the last, the next chapter of their life is like or figuring out their relationships.
00:40:01.660 --> 00:40:03.599 Matt Zemon: Okay? Great. That's kind of.
00:40:03.790 --> 00:40:06.130 Matt Zemon: but relatively healthy, normal.
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:11.410 Matt Zemon: And then we have others who are experiencing much more profound levels of depression and anxiety.
00:40:11.410 --> 00:40:11.819 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Need zoom.
00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:13.270 Matt Zemon: Suicidal ideation.
00:40:14.520 --> 00:40:20.640 Matt Zemon: Those are harder populations to work with, regardless of whether they are. They are veterans or not. Veterans
00:40:20.660 --> 00:40:21.986 Matt Zemon: veterans sometimes
00:40:23.080 --> 00:40:26.670 Matt Zemon: or maybe more universally, have seen things
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:35.470 Matt Zemon: that we haven't seen veterans more universally. Not all have had rougher childhoods which led them to the military. To begin with.
00:40:36.210 --> 00:40:49.460 Matt Zemon: And so they have early childhood trauma that then, is compounded by trauma within the military. So maybe there's there's some more layers, but all of that can happen in non-veteran populations as well.
00:40:49.930 --> 00:40:52.850 Matt Zemon: and then I guess the last thing is, their veterans are
00:40:53.140 --> 00:40:55.930 Matt Zemon: are used to the physicality of
00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:58.160 Matt Zemon: being in the military.
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:01.280 Matt Zemon: and sometimes they want the harder.
00:41:01.290 --> 00:41:05.030 Matt Zemon: stronger experiences and things like ayahuasca
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:13.270 Matt Zemon: really resonates with them. But I also know heroic hearts has been sending people up to Oregon for back to back
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:21.380 Matt Zemon: mushroom journeys. And they've been having really powerful experiences with those as well. So I think there's almost a
00:41:21.870 --> 00:41:28.760 Matt Zemon: a myth to all we need to do. Ayahuasca, when you're seeing powerful mdma in the science side, and we're seeing power.
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:29.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:41:29.180 --> 00:41:31.050 Matt Zemon: Rooms in the spiritual side.
00:41:31.300 --> 00:41:31.779 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, and
00:41:32.020 --> 00:41:34.340 Matt Zemon: I guess the psychedelic treatment center side.
00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:36.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes.
00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:39.070 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yeah. The and the.
00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:56.679 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: There were a lot of people who were very upset at the FDA's ruling against mdma this year, and that being like a real setback for moving forward, do you feel that? And I know a lot of people were focusing on
00:41:57.120 --> 00:42:04.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: applying Mdma for for helping veterans as as like a key, because it's really a bipartisan
00:42:04.720 --> 00:42:14.099 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sort of area. It's not one that people are divided on, based on what party they are. But maybe it's based on some other things.
00:42:14.120 --> 00:42:17.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Do you? Are you hopeful that that
00:42:17.990 --> 00:42:24.870 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Mda will will eventually be legalized, or or mdma treatment will be legalized for veterans at the very least.
00:42:25.120 --> 00:42:35.210 Matt Zemon: I remain optimistic that we haven't really had a change in mental health care in America since the creation of the antidepressant. We need something else. They when they work, they work, but when they don't.
00:42:35.220 --> 00:42:40.049 Matt Zemon: And we're talking about 50, 60, 70% depending on which which medication
00:42:40.370 --> 00:42:41.260 Matt Zemon: they don't.
00:42:41.410 --> 00:42:49.369 Matt Zemon: So we need another option. The results from both Mdma and psilocybin studies are very promising.
00:42:50.226 --> 00:42:54.330 Matt Zemon: The FDA has given both breakthrough therapy diagnoses and.
00:42:55.610 --> 00:43:00.940 Matt Zemon: Yeah. And and we do have really great numbers. And even if we take the things.
00:43:01.160 --> 00:43:03.469 Matt Zemon: many of the things the FDA said.
00:43:03.630 --> 00:43:08.949 Matt Zemon: okay, we? We pull out a couple of these, we add in a few adverse events, the numbers are still phenomenal.
00:43:09.010 --> 00:43:14.929 Matt Zemon: Right? So hopefully we'll have both mdma and psilocybin in the not too distant future.
00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:20.159 Matt Zemon: so that all of us can have access to these these powerful tools for for healing, and and
00:43:20.410 --> 00:43:24.129 Matt Zemon: by making these legal, truly legal.
00:43:24.180 --> 00:43:28.430 Matt Zemon: We bring it above ground. We bring the conversations above ground, we reduce stigma.
00:43:28.460 --> 00:43:30.201 Matt Zemon: It changes a lot of
00:43:30.580 --> 00:43:32.690 Matt Zemon: changes a lot of things for a lot of people.
00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:36.509 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right right. Do you feel that they'll
00:43:36.620 --> 00:44:03.969 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: always be a place for sort of the underground movement? Because, as you mentioned before, to do this in a therapeutic setting can be very expensive because of the cost of having, you know. The model is to have 2 therapists there. You have to have several hours of preparation, several hours of integrations. You add that all up and right now, insurance is not covering. That, you know, that's not really accessible for most people. Is it.
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:06.241 Matt Zemon: It's not accessible at all.
00:44:06.680 --> 00:44:18.539 Matt Zemon: so I want to divide underground into kind of 2 categories we have. We have our underground kind of therapist coaches working on a 1 on one basis with people they have ongoing relationships with, okay, that's great. And and
00:44:19.330 --> 00:44:25.630 Matt Zemon: there's still a cost to that. I still recommend. If you can have 2 people in the room instead of one for safety sake, it's better
00:44:25.750 --> 00:44:28.719 Matt Zemon: still expensive. And then we have kind of group
00:44:28.780 --> 00:44:34.650 Matt Zemon: ceremony. So we have somewhere between 500 and a thousand enthiogenic churches in America.
00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:36.200 Matt Zemon: They're running.
00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:39.469 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Whoa! Whoa! 500 to a thousand!
00:44:39.470 --> 00:44:41.350 Matt Zemon: I think it's every bit that many. Yeah.
00:44:41.370 --> 00:44:52.539 Matt Zemon: yeah, there's not an exact number. So so let's let's we have 4 churches that have religious exemptions from our Government right? And then we have a bunch of a bunch of us who operate
00:44:52.590 --> 00:44:58.010 Matt Zemon: protected by law and statute with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and
00:44:58.110 --> 00:44:59.350 Matt Zemon: but our our
00:44:59.830 --> 00:45:07.834 Matt Zemon: very quiet for the most part there, with some exceptions, there's some that are out there saying, Hey, come to our church, but but most are quiet and
00:45:09.100 --> 00:45:11.070 Matt Zemon: and those
00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:17.300 Matt Zemon: because in many cases there's there's volunteer labor components. There's philanthropy components.
00:45:17.430 --> 00:45:20.540 Matt Zemon: They're in their group components. They're able to offer
00:45:22.160 --> 00:45:28.459 Matt Zemon: psychedelic ceremonies, entheogenic ceremonies at a completely different price point. Now
00:45:28.580 --> 00:45:30.050 Matt Zemon: that being said.
00:45:30.180 --> 00:45:35.620 Matt Zemon: if there's no medical claims, so there shouldn't be any medical claims. It's it's it's religion.
00:45:35.910 --> 00:45:39.000 Matt Zemon: If people are doing it for medical reasons.
00:45:39.130 --> 00:45:39.729 Matt Zemon: That is, it.
00:45:39.770 --> 00:45:40.610 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: They!
00:45:40.610 --> 00:45:56.400 Matt Zemon: Need to be careful, because that's not what those groups do, or they need to supplement. So I'll give again the example of the veterans if they go down to Peru, and they work with the shipebo healers. That's ceremony, and the things they do with their coaches before and after we could call that medical.
00:45:58.810 --> 00:46:04.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I see. I see. Yeah, yeah, I I mean, I I knew about the distinction between the
00:46:04.950 --> 00:46:24.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: churches and the the ones that have the Dea exemption. So I knew that weren't that there were only less than a handful that had the Dea exemption. But I hadn't realized that there were that many ethnogenic churches around. And yeah, I think that's an important point to make. We've got to take our last break of the show when we come back
00:46:24.250 --> 00:46:42.860 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I'd actually like to touch upon. Since we've been talking about churches a bit the spiritual side of psychedelics a little bit, you know, we hear so much about the the mental health and the healing aspects of psychedelics. But there also can be a spiritual practice which I'd like to focus on for the last segment. Okay?
00:46:42.860 --> 00:46:44.040 Matt Zemon: Perfect. Let's do that.
00:46:44.890 --> 00:46:51.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Awesome, wonderful. So everybody, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity.
00:46:51.810 --> 00:46:55.919 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and we'll be right back to tie it all up with our guest, Matt, Zaman.
00:49:04.680 --> 00:49:18.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So, Matt, we've started talking about the the ethnogenic churches, the ceremonial use of psychedelics, not as a quote, unquote healing modality, but as more personal exploration, modality. But in
00:49:19.100 --> 00:49:27.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the public, you know, in the common conversations most of the attention is really focused on how psychedelics can help us heal.
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:34.970 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But for centuries and and and beyond healing there's a much deeper
00:49:35.130 --> 00:49:38.840 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: relationship with psychedelics that we can develop, isn't there.
00:49:39.070 --> 00:49:55.760 Matt Zemon: Yeah, I mean, in the old days there were just healers, and the healers were both spiritual healers and medical healers, and we in our Western society have separated those roles, and we've given pure science to the doctors and and death to the clergy and and the reality is these.
00:49:56.030 --> 00:50:01.749 Matt Zemon: these substances occasion spiritual experiences, whether you want them to or not.
00:50:02.680 --> 00:50:13.320 Matt Zemon: So if you were to say then well, this should belong in the clergy's hands. Well, it's fair to argue that they don't have the latest knowledge of my brain and body to keep me safe, totally fair.
00:50:13.510 --> 00:50:19.319 Matt Zemon: Conversely, if we give them just to doctors, they don't have any spiritual training whatsoever.
00:50:19.520 --> 00:50:29.399 Matt Zemon: So we need a new collaboration. We need a new way of delivering these medicines that involve both medical people and spiritual people. And we need this to become
00:50:29.510 --> 00:50:34.660 Matt Zemon: legal, so that these can happen without medical providers being worried about their licensure.
00:50:34.680 --> 00:50:35.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And that.
00:50:35.390 --> 00:50:39.010 Matt Zemon: That's true, whether they're a nurse, or a therapist, or a doctor.
00:50:39.010 --> 00:50:39.390 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: -
00:50:39.734 --> 00:50:54.210 Matt Zemon: It's. And and so that spiritual providers aren't worried about insurance and arbitration and all those things that go there. So there, there's some very practical reasons to to bring this above ground also changes where these medicines are purchased or grown.
00:50:54.210 --> 00:50:54.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:50:54.863 --> 00:51:00.810 Matt Zemon: It changes a lot to make it legal but spiritual use. We go back, pick your pick, your culture
00:51:00.870 --> 00:51:04.130 Matt Zemon: thousands of years all throughout the world.
00:51:04.240 --> 00:51:08.109 Matt Zemon: This is how they were they. They were delivered. They were delivered for
00:51:08.170 --> 00:51:18.309 Matt Zemon: for personal healing, for connecting with spirit, for for reminding us that we are connected to all things, that we are not separate and apart from nature, but that we are nature.
00:51:19.208 --> 00:51:22.790 Matt Zemon: They were designed to help us foster stronger community.
00:51:23.170 --> 00:51:26.930 Matt Zemon: and all of those things can happen in a spiritual setting.
00:51:27.200 --> 00:51:37.039 Matt Zemon: and there are different. Every entheogenic church is different. They use different sacraments, and they have different beliefs. So you, as the consumer.
00:51:37.180 --> 00:51:43.730 Matt Zemon: need to ask questions. What am I walking into? What do you believe? What are you going to tell me or not. Tell me
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:54.239 Matt Zemon: and there's also support groups like, if you're Christian in psychedelics, you can go to Ligare. LIGA. re.com. If you're Jewish in psychedelics, you can go to Shefa.
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:58.039 Matt Zemon: There's lots of different organizations around different
00:51:58.410 --> 00:52:04.159 Matt Zemon: traditional wisdom traditions and psychedelics. And then there's a whole bunch of people who have.
00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:07.420 Matt Zemon: who are kind of modern modern churches.
00:52:08.030 --> 00:52:14.229 Matt Zemon: But asking those questions, what do you believe? What are you going to tell me? What? Because we are very susceptible
00:52:14.470 --> 00:52:17.310 Matt Zemon: when we're in that non-ordinary state of consciousness.
00:52:17.510 --> 00:52:22.379 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yes, yes, and and sometimes I find in talking to people
00:52:22.620 --> 00:52:23.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: like
00:52:23.730 --> 00:52:48.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: sometimes people don't really do enough research of who they're going to work with, and what the environment is going to be like before they get there. Just hear like, oh, this is the latest craze this is going to help me see God, and they just try and find somebody, and and they may or may not have a good experience with them. What would you recommend if someone's interested in having a relationship with these
00:52:48.730 --> 00:52:50.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: powerful substances.
00:52:50.600 --> 00:52:59.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: how should they go about researching it? How should they find a guide, a facilitator, a church, a group that that
00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:01.900 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: they they can feel comfortable is going to
00:53:01.910 --> 00:53:14.650 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: hold them in a sacred way or in a professional way, and and like mitigate the risk. As you talked about before that they're actually going to have the kind of experience they're looking for.
00:53:15.040 --> 00:53:23.560 Matt Zemon: Yeah, I mean, Sam. 1st is the confession I did. I was exactly that person. I did not ask enough questions. I just trusted the process and got lucky
00:53:23.830 --> 00:53:35.479 Matt Zemon: but but I've heard stories of people who don't get as lucky. Yeah. So I think a couple things. First, st there's 3 things that I ask everybody to pay attention to. It's source set and setting.
00:53:35.520 --> 00:53:42.080 Matt Zemon: And then if you think about those things, you can think of the questions around those things. So sources. Where did the psychedelics come from?
00:53:42.080 --> 00:53:42.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And.
00:53:42.620 --> 00:53:55.170 Matt Zemon: Damage can happen if the psychedelics are laced or contaminated. So, asking your provider, where do you get your psychedelics from? Is a reasonable question set is the mindset. So are you, Provider going to help me
00:53:55.170 --> 00:54:13.039 Matt Zemon: set my intentions? Are you going to tell me whatever medicine we're working with, how it might interact with my body. So that I'm aware, are you going to give me support after the session in case I have some kind of psychological trauma? Or do I need to find that on my own? Not all providers do the post support. And that's okay.
00:54:13.040 --> 00:54:13.470 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah.
00:54:13.470 --> 00:54:14.639 Matt Zemon: But we need to know
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:19.579 Matt Zemon: and then setting is, what is the physical environment? What are the rules of engagement?
00:54:19.720 --> 00:54:31.719 Matt Zemon: What are the or is there touch? Is there no touch? Is there one person in the room serving medicine? Is there 7 people in the room serving medicine? Are there 10 of us, or a hundred of us taking medicine.
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:34.499 Matt Zemon: So what is that setting? Are we going to be interrupted?
00:54:35.061 --> 00:54:40.219 Matt Zemon: How do you? How are you keeping me safe when I'm on this medicine. So source set and setting
00:54:40.600 --> 00:54:43.350 Matt Zemon: in terms of finding this what I,
00:54:43.610 --> 00:54:53.540 Matt Zemon: every, not every every major city, most major cities have some kind of psychedelic society or a Decriminalization society. Chapter
00:54:54.056 --> 00:55:01.130 Matt Zemon: going to those meetings meeting people asking questions. What else is happening locally? Who should I meet?
00:55:01.636 --> 00:55:04.899 Matt Zemon: Are good ways to figure out what's happening near you.
00:55:05.190 --> 00:55:13.150 Matt Zemon: and certainly people can fly. They can fly to. They can hear about a good service happening somewhere and flying in or driving in, sure
00:55:13.210 --> 00:55:19.580 Matt Zemon: and ideally, though if they have a community that they're building a consciousness community around them.
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.760 Matt Zemon: that real, meaningful, lasting change is is more likely to stick
00:55:24.374 --> 00:55:29.750 Matt Zemon: and again you can fly and have the psychedelic experience. But maybe then you
00:55:30.443 --> 00:55:36.850 Matt Zemon: join a Yoga, or a faith-based tradition community for ongoing needs. Afterwards.
00:55:37.140 --> 00:55:48.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right? Right? Yeah, it's it's really important to understand that it's not just about the ceremony. It's about what happens afterwards, and what kind of support. What kind of community, what kind of connection?
00:55:48.867 --> 00:55:52.039 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and you said the magic word you said consciousness
00:55:52.160 --> 00:55:52.865 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and
00:55:54.370 --> 00:56:02.149 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I've heard a lot of people say that they feel that psychedelics are key to raising the consciousness of the planet
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:05.050 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to help us to deal with
00:56:05.590 --> 00:56:07.330 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the what's
00:56:07.770 --> 00:56:15.479 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: all around us? What's happening with the environment? What's happening with the political upheaval in in different places?
00:56:17.770 --> 00:56:19.249 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How do you feel?
00:56:19.340 --> 00:56:24.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How do you feel? Psychedelics has changed your consciousness.
00:56:24.730 --> 00:56:28.910 Matt Zemon: Yeah, I love that, Sam, because because I actually, I believe it all starts
00:56:29.050 --> 00:56:32.499 Matt Zemon: incredibly local meaning. It starts with us. It starts with me
00:56:32.690 --> 00:56:42.279 Matt Zemon: that this is my practice. This is my work well beyond, before I share it with anybody. I need to do this for my own learning, healing, and growing period. Then
00:56:42.310 --> 00:56:50.849 Matt Zemon: that ripple extends, and it becomes me and my family. And then that ripple extends a little bit more, and it's me, and whoever I'm talking to in the community.
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:59.680 Matt Zemon: and the hope is that as I'm sharing my practice, and as we are doing individual healing in community, that those ripples just keep moving out.
00:56:59.900 --> 00:57:02.220 Matt Zemon: But I believe all change starts
00:57:02.240 --> 00:57:04.349 Matt Zemon: all change, for the world starts with.
00:57:04.350 --> 00:57:05.160 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And with.
00:57:05.390 --> 00:57:07.660 Matt Zemon: Me individually, you individually.
00:57:07.670 --> 00:57:09.349 Matt Zemon: and we can go from there.
00:57:09.970 --> 00:57:26.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful wonderful. Well, Matt, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. I could talk with you around this for hours. Unfortunately, time is limited. If people want to learn more about your work, get your books. Where can they find you online? Where can they learn more.
00:57:26.380 --> 00:57:29.329 Matt Zemon: Yeah. So Matt zeman.com is my website.
00:57:29.894 --> 00:57:42.210 Matt Zemon: and they can drop me a note there. There's lots of videos. There's a free guide to Microdosing. So all@mattzeman.com Amazon has all my books audible. Has the psychedelics psychedelics for everyone book.
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:55.859 Matt Zemon: and if they want to order if they run either retreats or ceremonies, or or medical clinics, and they want bulk books. They can do that on my website. We have a yeah, pricing for for people who are buying in bulk
00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:58.550 Matt Zemon: by a hundred at a time.
00:57:58.950 --> 00:58:01.939 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: MATT ZEMO n, that is it.
00:58:02.173 --> 00:58:08.249 Matt Zemon: Matt, zeman.com. And then Instagram and Linkedin is where I'm active socially, and those are also good places to to reach out to me.
00:58:08.570 --> 00:58:16.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Wonderful wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Matt. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to come on my show today. It's been a pleasure to have you.
00:58:16.200 --> 00:58:18.559 Matt Zemon: It's been wonderful, Sam thanks so much for having me.
00:58:18.560 --> 00:58:42.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: You're quite welcome. You're quite welcome, and of course, thank you, my loyal listeners, who tune in every week without you there is no show and of course. If you did miss any part of today's show, please remember, you can always catch the replay on talkradio dot, Nyc on all the major podcasting platforms, apple spotify Pandora, Iheartradio and all over social media, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter linkedin, twitch.
00:58:42.810 --> 00:58:47.319 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Thank you. All for tuning in. We will talk to you all next week.
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