Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Listeners will learn to define leadership in a way that incorporates your personal experience - The first step in your leadership signature. They will get a preview Dr. Pennington's six key areas to "signature leadership" with an example of a pathway to their areas of identification and development.
Dr. Greg Pennington is an expert in leadership and team development and Managing Partner of Pennpoint Consulting Group, and has a mission "to help you be the leader you imagined you could be". Dr. Pennington's experience includes leadership roles in Human Resources, diversity consulting, consulting psychology, high potential development, and succession planning. He leverages over 30 years of experience in internal and external roles to provide a thought-provoking and practical approach to executive coaching, targeted leadership development, and accelerating high-performing teams. By positioning diversity as "the full utilization of all resources" he offers a lens to the impact of diversity and inclusion on an organization's values and business outcomes.
Dr. Pennington will discuss elements of his book and framework on how to develop your Leadership Signature. A "Leadership Signature" highlights the importance of defining influence and impact in a way that fits for the individual. The session underscores the value of intentional effort in developing leadership effectiveness and provides practical pathways to identify and develop key areas of effectiveness. Though anchored in research, the episode will lean into how glimpses of our personal journeys help us be more effective.
linkedin.com/in/gregpenningtonphd; www.pennpointconsultinggroup.com
Your Leadership Signature: Mapping your personal pursuit of influence and impact - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0882NXSCD
I Give to You Book: https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Greg-Pennington/dp/B09LGTN8XJ
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
On this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Brancu is joined by guest Dr. Greg Pennington, an expert in leadership and team development. They will be discussing how to develop a Leadership Signature and what it entails. They also will be talking about how personal journeys help individuals to be more effective in their daily lives. To start the conversation, Dr. Brancu and Dr. Pennington discuss how they met and connected. Dr. Pennington goes on to share his framework, including his book Your Leadership Signature, and how he got into his line of work and started to discuss different kinds of mindsets.
After the first break, Dr. Brancu and Dr. Pennington continue to discuss the foundation of leadership and more about a “Leadership Signature.” Dr. Pennington highlights and begs the viewers to think about different questions about a workplace environment and how it can affect the development of leadership identity. They continue to talk about how to lean into leadership and how to find productive tension in the workspace
As the discussion progresses, Dr. Pennington shares more about his book/workbook on leadership development and strategies. He has a six-stage model that he utilizes and dissects each stage for the listeners. The stages Dr. Pennington talks about include (1) How to define leadership and what have you come to expect in the definition, (2) What is your mission? What is your purpose? (3) Leaders need to have a vision, the need to connect the dots, (4) Impact and influence, and (5) How are you wired to become capable in your leadership development?
As the episode comes to a close, Dr. Pennington shares the last stage in the six-stage model and it is, (6) What is your legacy? From everything you have done so far, what message or impact do you want to leave for others? Dr. Brancu highlights the importance of being intentional when developing your legacy, your leadership signature. Something Dr. Pennington would love for others to take away is that there is agency that happens to himself and others. He can have his own style in his leadership signature, understanding that he puts his own spin to everything he does.
00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:52.189 Mira Brancu: welcome to the hard skills podcast and show with me Dr. Mira Branku.
00:00:52.200 --> 00:01:03.369 Mira Brancu: On this show we discussed how to develop the nuanced hard skills needed to become an exceptional leader who can drive significant systemic change to make real impact.
00:01:03.510 --> 00:01:08.830 Mira Brancu: I work with leaders in healthcare research stem and other technical fields working toward that goal. But
00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:23.009 Mira Brancu: we also go beyond that to under other industries as well because it applies right now, this is the second season as a reminder. So we're naturally focused on the second stage of my strategic leadership pathway model
00:01:23.060 --> 00:01:34.390 Mira Brancu: developing leadership identity. So today is a perfect guest for this particular topic. We're speaking with Dr. Greg Pennington
00:01:34.610 --> 00:01:37.030 Mira Brancu: on your signature
00:01:37.180 --> 00:01:38.260 Mira Brancu: leadership.
00:01:38.310 --> 00:01:40.459 Mira Brancu: your leadership signature. Okay.
00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:48.270 Mira Brancu: how you map your personal pursuit of influence and impact. He's created a framework. I'm super excited to learn from him. So welcome.
00:01:48.380 --> 00:01:49.900 Mira Brancu: Welcome, Greg.
00:01:50.630 --> 00:01:57.940 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: thank you very much, Mira. It is my pleasure to be here with you and just looking forward to having a great conversation with you.
00:01:58.090 --> 00:02:01.530 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. Now, as a reminder, everybody.
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:09.740 Mira Brancu: we value evidence based practical solutions. So be ready. Take notes. I always do reflect deeply
00:02:09.860 --> 00:02:16.539 Mira Brancu: and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills. Muscles based on what we talk about today.
00:02:17.140 --> 00:02:27.180 Mira Brancu: Let me introduce Greg's background. Dr. Greg Pennington is an expert in leadership and team development, and is the managing partner of Pen Point consulting group.
00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:31.559 Mira Brancu: and his mission is to help you be the leader you imagined you can be.
00:02:31.850 --> 00:02:37.870 Mira Brancu: Dr. Pennington's experience includes leadership, roles and human resources, diversity, consulting
00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:39.610 Mira Brancu: consulting psychology.
00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:42.909 Mira Brancu: high potential development and succession planning.
00:02:43.140 --> 00:02:55.300 Mira Brancu: He leverages over 30 years of experience in internal and external roles to provide a thought provoking and practical approach to executive coaching, targeted leadership, development, and accelerating high performing teams
00:02:55.810 --> 00:03:01.900 Mira Brancu: by positioning diversity as the full utilization of all resources.
00:03:02.060 --> 00:03:07.810 Mira Brancu: he offers a lens to the impact of diversity and inclusion on an organization's values and business outcomes.
00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:16.510 Mira Brancu: He's always focused on learning through sharing. and he dedicates a significant amount of time and resources
00:03:16.570 --> 00:03:21.869 Mira Brancu: to professional associations and individuals in early stages of their careers and at transition points
00:03:22.170 --> 00:03:24.189 Mira Brancu: in that. In fact.
00:03:24.450 --> 00:03:32.039 Mira Brancu: that is how I got to know him. When I was first transitioning from clinical to consulting psychology.
00:03:32.210 --> 00:03:38.619 Mira Brancu: I took a beginner's peer supervision and training experience with him through the Society of Consulting Psychology.
00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:40.890 Mira Brancu: which he previously served as president
00:03:41.270 --> 00:03:45.829 Mira Brancu: and he was offering this opportunity, and I jumped at it.
00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.150 Mira Brancu: And now I've never let go.
00:03:49.650 --> 00:03:50.390 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:03:50.540 --> 00:03:59.349 Mira Brancu: so welcome, Greg, to the show. Thank you. Thank you again. And it's been a pleasure, even Friday, obviously, from that very beginning, when you showed up in that
00:03:59.610 --> 00:04:07.159 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: a group coaching, counseling support circle so. And you know, I said, then I'll always keep saying
00:04:07.430 --> 00:04:14.980 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: it's it's what makes it work well, is it being a 2 way street? So whatever you got from it. Just trust I got something from it as well.
00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:39.820 Mira Brancu: Awesome. Yes, it's always wonderful when you can find that mutually beneficial experience with with somebody, and I had another mentor who said the same thing when I was telling him. You know, I just I fee I felt so grateful for everything that he sort of poured into me. And he's like, Mira, you do know that this was mutually beneficial as much out of this as you.
00:04:40.730 --> 00:04:43.120 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so.
00:04:43.130 --> 00:04:53.600 Mira Brancu: but it's true. Yeah, okay, so let's ease into this conversation. With something simple a simple conversation. I like to just chat a little bit. I'm on travel right now.
00:04:53.650 --> 00:05:00.709 Mira Brancu: I'm in Denver for a team development engagement. It's about 30 degrees colder here
00:05:00.940 --> 00:05:06.460 Mira Brancu: than it is where I live, and I suspect where you live, too, Greg, which is even further south than where I live.
00:05:06.610 --> 00:05:11.540 Mira Brancu: So this is on my mind as a for a fun question to start with. What is your ideal weather?
00:05:12.820 --> 00:05:15.119 Mira Brancu: Oh, my, yeah, I do.
00:05:15.170 --> 00:05:17.409 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: No, that's that's a good question. So am I.
00:05:17.940 --> 00:05:25.190 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Ideal weather is probably a 75 degrees. Steady temperature. Would
00:05:25.230 --> 00:05:27.849 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know? Sometimes you call it sweater weather
00:05:28.140 --> 00:05:32.070 Mira Brancu: 75, 80. During the day, and
00:05:32.140 --> 00:05:40.599 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know 75, 70 ish in the evening, so you can put on a little bit of sweater. But I got options then, and
00:05:40.810 --> 00:05:52.550 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and those options don't include me shivering and so forth. So that'll be yeah. A little bit of change and weather. So here in Atlanta we get, we get a piece of all the seasons. I don't know about it.
00:05:52.990 --> 00:05:55.909 Do 90 degrees all year long, or.
00:05:55.940 --> 00:06:03.459 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, 40 degrees all year long. But that that's what I would say. 75 degrees sounds. I mean Fahrenheit, and I'm good to go.
00:06:04.230 --> 00:06:09.979 Mira Brancu: I agree. That is absolutely perfect. Some people might say that is too warm.
00:06:10.110 --> 00:06:19.309 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: but they're crazy. I agree, you and I, yeah, well, I tell tell those people now, my floor heater is at 73 degrees. So
00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:39.620 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: yeah, perfect. Yes, I do. I do keep the weather in our house about 73, and I'm not sure there's 7 or 8 degree difference between this second floor where I hang out and the first floor. My wife hangs out so since I need to get that stuff called Jared Geritol.
00:06:42.130 --> 00:06:46.530 Mira Brancu: Very funny. Okay. Let's move into your
00:06:46.630 --> 00:06:54.090 Mira Brancu: framework. You have a book actually on this right? It's called the Leadership Signature. Tell us about
00:06:54.140 --> 00:07:03.139 Mira Brancu: what experiences have you had with leaders that led you to think about the importance of this leadership signature.
00:07:03.490 --> 00:07:09.280 Mira Brancu: Yeah, and it's called your leadership signature. So that, yeah, yeah, what's your leadership signature?
00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:13.869 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So a couple of quick reactions. When I, when I asked my son about
00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:18.730 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: had he read the book, he said, you mean that book where you have to do some work.
00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:29.829 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So it's somewhere between a book and a workbook. Right? But to your to your point question II would tell you from a from a practice standpoint. I just remember real clearly
00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:35.259 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: first job as our human resources manager for savings and loan.
00:07:35.350 --> 00:07:45.670 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And I was working with the president of that savings and home. And one day. I don't have to get a whole context. But one day he said, isn't that what a President is supposed to do?
00:07:45.940 --> 00:07:57.010 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So it's just like moments like that from that early first job out of graduate school to recent times where somebody reflects on, what am I supposed to do
00:07:57.290 --> 00:08:04.440 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: in in that particular role. So that's just a real trigger to are you trying to feel?
00:08:04.530 --> 00:08:07.519 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Prototype. or are you trying to?
00:08:07.580 --> 00:08:22.610 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Yeah. And what does it take for you to compromise, to fill that prototype. So there's something valuable like you said that everything we talk about is evidence base, even if even though I don't want to spend all that time given citations. But but there's some. There's some data that would suggest
00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:24.890 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: if you generally said
00:08:24.940 --> 00:08:33.250 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: a leader president of a savings and all financial institution coach of a football team, whatever the list is. Parent.
00:08:33.289 --> 00:08:41.659 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: yeah. So there's always some data that says. statistically speaking, and this is what those types people doing those roles.
00:08:41.970 --> 00:08:47.669 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: But I just appreciate, Mira, that someone that I'm trying to figure out. I like that suit to look pretty good. And
00:08:47.850 --> 00:08:52.909 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, in the window, but when I put it on it didn't quite look right. So
00:08:53.130 --> 00:09:02.159 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: do I just need to alter it a little bit, or do I need to go to a different store? Or do I need to lose some weight, gain some weight? But what's the
00:09:02.180 --> 00:09:10.989 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: what's the productive tension between. Here's what people expect in that role. and then what would be natural
00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:19.130 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: fluid almost on and on it automatic for me to fill it. But that that would be the I mean, if I was videotaping, it would be one that
00:09:19.140 --> 00:09:25.259 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: when Bob Bob said, and you know. thought, well, he's working with the president of institution.
00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:27.479 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and he said, Well, isn't that what a
00:09:27.540 --> 00:09:30.639 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: present supposed to do? And it was just not.
00:09:30.890 --> 00:09:36.390 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I mean, intuitively, what we're talking about didn't seem to fit as character or style. So
00:09:36.460 --> 00:09:47.609 Mira Brancu: yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh, there are so many ways we can take this that I'm thinking right now. And I really like your term productive tension.
00:09:48.310 --> 00:09:51.080 Mira Brancu: because for me.
00:09:51.140 --> 00:09:56.220 Mira Brancu: the the reason that I'm so interested in developing leadership identity is usually
00:09:56.380 --> 00:10:00.019 Mira Brancu: a lot of people come to me. And usually they're women in leadership
00:10:00.030 --> 00:10:06.679 Mira Brancu: with tension. It's not feeling productive, right? But it's it's tension around
00:10:06.810 --> 00:10:13.590 Mira Brancu: the messages that they've heard or seen about what a leader is supposed to be. you see.
00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:15.960 Mira Brancu: and whether they
00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:18.180 Mira Brancu: believe they can fit that mold.
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:20.480 Mira Brancu: or whether they
00:10:20.510 --> 00:10:24.920 Mira Brancu: want to fit that mold. Yeah.
00:10:24.990 --> 00:10:26.899 Mira Brancu: and I guess I'm wondering.
00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:30.409 Mira Brancu: how do you see?
00:10:30.690 --> 00:10:37.040 Mira Brancu: Productive tension? What? What is productive tension? Where? Where? Can people
00:10:37.130 --> 00:10:41.170 Mira Brancu: so find that feeling of like this is good tension.
00:10:41.220 --> 00:10:47.390 Mira Brancu: It's the right amount of attention. It's not so much where I'm questioning like, do I even belong here?
00:10:47.600 --> 00:11:01.169 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Yeah, no, I mean, that's a helpful question for me, too. I so if I was to put a number on, it's probably in this 50 50 arena, right? So what? I'm so I'm giving up something. And what do I get in return?
00:11:02.370 --> 00:11:06.419 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I have to put forth some effort, but I don't get totally exhausted by that.
00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:17.489 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I have some responsibility for changing fit man, you know. The others around me, including the institution, has some degree of
00:11:17.560 --> 00:11:18.810 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: tolerance, some.
00:11:18.890 --> 00:11:21.360 and of tolerance and band of flexibility.
00:11:21.390 --> 00:11:23.890 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So we're in that space.
00:11:23.950 --> 00:11:31.230 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, becomes productive tension. I mean, those who are, I mean really are research on you probably heard similar conversations around
00:11:31.300 --> 00:11:48.820 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: maximal learning. You know. Where is that? Where's that level? That? Oh, this is a slam dunk. This is easy, you know. Motion for me, I can. Just I was. I was born to feel this role right? So I just move into it. I said earlier, you can do some things automatically, and I do think that's
00:11:48.850 --> 00:11:51.670 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: valuable in many, in many ways.
00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.110 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: It doesn't necessarily push you to do more.
00:11:54.150 --> 00:12:04.389 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and doesn't necessarily prepare you for something that was unexpected. So somewhere in that realm, from there's no way in the world, you know, I could fill this role
00:12:04.470 --> 00:12:16.020 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: either from technical expertise or psychological wiring so forth. Absolutely no way at best, is like a 98%, you know, probability of failure right?
00:12:16.650 --> 00:12:20.630 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: But all the way to the other extreme, like, it's there's is.
00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:27.959 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know. There's there's an opportunity for me to to be successful here. So the productive pieces
00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:32.510 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I put forth some effort and I get some feedback.
00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:38.299 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and that feedback is developmentally orient enough like, you worked
00:12:38.380 --> 00:12:43.609 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: 5 h for that presentation and it bombed. So I've got some data points.
00:12:43.810 --> 00:12:55.949 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And then I've got some productive tension there in there to say that. Well, maybe I work too long, too many hours, too many hours. So some of that productive part of the tension is, do I have some options.
00:12:56.030 --> 00:13:04.679 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know? Can I change some of the behavior? Can I get some different input can actually reframe it differently. Those are the things that make it productive part for me.
00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:09.790 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: The tension part is what's going to get me activated enough.
00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:12.250 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, to even care about this.
00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:17.639 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and activated enough in the caring part, is.
00:13:17.680 --> 00:13:28.709 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, what are the consequences of my my behavior? What are the rewards? What are the risks related to that? What's the pleasure I get from it? And you know those things kind of come together.
00:13:29.010 --> 00:13:47.089 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And it's like, even like we start today and said, I'm both eager and anxious. Right? So if I was to write it out back, okay, read the script if you give me all the questions in advance. I can prepare for them. But it's like, sort of know where we're going and I'm gonna find some stuff along the way to.
00:13:47.210 --> 00:13:49.380 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I probably didn't even expect. And that's okay.
00:13:50.410 --> 00:13:52.820 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So that's the other part. I think that makes it productive.
00:13:52.860 --> 00:14:11.230 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: If in the end I'm still in this growth mindset, and everybody around me is in that. Oh, what could we do? What could we do differently? What could we do again, both in those moments that we would have said were successful as well as those moments in which somebody was said. No, that was that was a failure that made it. There's still some learning.
00:14:11.330 --> 00:14:13.639 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, in in both of those areas.
00:14:14.290 --> 00:14:16.879 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And I think that
00:14:17.370 --> 00:14:37.470 Mira Brancu: is what I was thinking of when you were mentioning proximal development, right? For those who aren't familiar. You know the the zone of proximal development. I think it's an educational psychology and counseling term is like what Cal? What coaches sometimes call growth edge. Right? It's like
00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:53.889 Mira Brancu: what is like a right adjacent to your ability. But the next step up in your growth that we're learning but you're just like a little, just a little out of, not so far off that it feels like this is an impossibility.
00:14:53.950 --> 00:15:00.409 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: but close enough that you have to work at it. Right? Yes, yes, yeah. Get activated
00:15:00.590 --> 00:15:11.740 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: zone of development for sure. And that. And it's just so many different metaphors on that. And I think when so, those of those that are listening in that are coaches. I think that coaching model is says,
00:15:11.930 --> 00:15:16.880 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: when have you been successful in a similar way?
00:15:17.180 --> 00:15:29.259 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Any of that opportunity of grabbing on, you know, a positive, successful, productive experience, and then using that like you, said Mirror. What's the adjacency to that? What's the approximation.
00:15:29.270 --> 00:15:42.540 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know? If I, if I made a presentation to to my direct reports, could I make a presentation to my peers if I made a presentation? Now there was a point how I was sharing this with
00:15:42.670 --> 00:16:04.369 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: a colleague of friend of mine whose career had gone internal career, and she had managed a group of X number of people in a slightly larger than a slightly larger. She reminded me that all the growth, all that approximation, all that adjacency, some of it, is stepwise, but in some organizations is exponential.
00:16:04.410 --> 00:16:14.279 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So that's the kind of the interesting caveat. To that I mean, step by step, give me a little bit more, a little bit more, and then at some point there, for different reasons, there may be
00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:16.779 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: much more of an exponential leap
00:16:17.870 --> 00:16:22.709 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: from what I've done in the past to what you're now asking me to do, you know? Going forward.
00:16:22.850 --> 00:16:33.109 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So a couple of things that I heard about like, how do you know it's productive tension? Yeah, it's number one. Do I feel like I have options. I can try
00:16:33.410 --> 00:16:34.820 Mira Brancu: and number 2,
00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:40.909 Mira Brancu: am I motivated like, it's worth it to try. Is that right? Yeah, exactly.
00:16:41.150 --> 00:16:44.420 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. And and
00:16:45.110 --> 00:16:50.400 Mira Brancu: that means finding what?
00:16:50.810 --> 00:16:56.439 Mira Brancu: some level of discomfort I'm willing to accept as part of this
00:16:56.450 --> 00:17:10.679 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: process, because it's it's worth leaning into. Right? Yeah, yeah, I think I think that what I would add to that list of the 2 digit mirror would be you know, the product of the productive part of productive tension would be
00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:22.789 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: being in some kind of environment environment, meaning, you know, in connection with at least one other person. But but all the way up to some. you know, organizational culture. But if I'm in that kind of environment.
00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:27.709 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: it adds that other level of support. So those first 2 are in some ways pretty internal.
00:17:27.800 --> 00:17:31.020 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know. I have options, and I'm I'm motivated to do it.
00:17:31.070 --> 00:17:41.809 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: But the truth is, we do want some reinforcement, you know, from that other person or others around me. So I do think that's that's absolutely, you know, true as as well.
00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:44.660 Mira Brancu: But okay.
00:17:46.570 --> 00:18:13.360 Mira Brancu: yes. So let's we're we're gonna go into an ad break. Let's come back after the ad break to talk about that external environment as part of this as well. So again. You are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Dr. Greg Pennington. We air Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern. If you would like to join us online to our online audience and ask questions that we can answer in real time.
00:18:13.360 --> 00:18:18.509 Mira Brancu: You can find us on Linkedin or Youtube at talk radio and Nyc.
00:18:18.590 --> 00:18:20.919 Mira Brancu: And we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:57.799 Mira Brancu: welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest today, Dr. Greg Pennington. Now, because we're always authentic and real on the show. I'm gonna say we had some serious technical issues in the background that hopefully none of you knew about. But our production person, our engineer. Logan, lost power for a split second, and
00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:15.400 Mira Brancu: I'm conversing, chatting on the side while I'm having conversation with Dr. Pennington, hoping everything was okay, and that people were still able to hear us. And when it comes to leadership sometimes that is exactly the way it goes right, Greg. Sometimes
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:33.180 Mira Brancu: you are looking like a duck, and everything's rolling off your back, and everything's chill. But you're paddling underneath the water like crazy, because something is happening that you're not wanting to make any waves about. And that's exactly what was happening.
00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:34.819 Mira Brancu: Okay.
00:21:35.130 --> 00:21:44.210 Mira Brancu: so we were getting into this like really interesting conversation about your leadership signature. This is Greg's
00:21:44.310 --> 00:21:49.730 Mira Brancu: framework. and how you think about that productive tension.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.870 Mira Brancu: between
00:21:53.190 --> 00:21:55.030 Mira Brancu: finding
00:21:55.060 --> 00:22:11.469 Mira Brancu: sort of meeting the sort of ideal expectation or perception of what a leader should be based on your experiences versus what it makes sense for you to be like as a leader. And you know some of the things that we talked about were
00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:27.990 Mira Brancu: being able to know. Your options being able to feel motivated, to lean into some of that question or tension, or unknown and try things out. And then also, though recognizing your external environment.
00:22:28.110 --> 00:22:41.960 Mira Brancu: So let's talk a little bit more about that, because I think this is really important. What is it about the external environment that is important to a leader being able to truly develop their their leadership signature.
00:22:43.080 --> 00:22:46.050 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Yeah, I think a couple of things. One is
00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:56.800 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Well, before I even answer, I will say, Ex, when I talk about external environment. II would include that environment of origin. So how did you grow up.
00:22:57.040 --> 00:23:00.749 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know. Cause that's really kind of the foundation of defining.
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:02.590 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, leadership. And
00:23:02.710 --> 00:23:07.529 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know what's where you're going to get your feedback, your positive reinforcement.
00:23:07.590 --> 00:23:08.930 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and so forth on him.
00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:13.229 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: But then the environment part to me is is
00:23:13.590 --> 00:23:18.389 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Is this calibration of what I thought I was doing.
00:23:18.890 --> 00:23:23.949 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and what I expected as an outcome? And what's the feedback that I need to tell me I'm on track
00:23:25.110 --> 00:23:36.330 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: now, even saying it that way. maybe maybe begs the question of what do we mean by leadership? So for me? And again, we do libraries full of things about defining leadership.
00:23:36.350 --> 00:23:39.970 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So for me, it really is someone I captured in
00:23:40.070 --> 00:23:43.670 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: the intentional exercise of influence
00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:48.750 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: to impact the way others feel, think, and what they do.
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:54.260 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So this intentionality of of effort. It's not accidental.
00:23:54.280 --> 00:23:58.970 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, that I don't think that falls in category leadership. It isn't title.
00:23:59.580 --> 00:24:02.059 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: it isn't self-centered.
00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:07.909 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And so that notion of what am I trying to impact?
00:24:09.600 --> 00:24:12.219 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And who am I trying to impact
00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:17.200 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: just absolutely underscores that I can't do this in
00:24:17.570 --> 00:24:18.270 vacuum.
00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:21.469 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So part of reading that environment
00:24:21.490 --> 00:24:24.709 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and maybe dumping a bunch of terms here. But
00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:33.229 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: the same things you were talking about Mira, about personally as a leader on a leadership role. I want to. I get more confidence
00:24:34.050 --> 00:24:38.349 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: when I think I have options that when I think has some clarity about where the organization is going.
00:24:38.390 --> 00:24:44.049 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: When I think I have some clarity about and some confidence about what impact I can have in that
00:24:44.270 --> 00:24:55.180 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and all that just gets magnified and replicated with people around me, because that whole definition of leadership and imp has to do impacting others. So to the degree
00:24:55.540 --> 00:25:00.419 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I can read. And let's give some some, perhaps stark, stark examples.
00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:11.119 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Those organizations that we put in this category are as totally bottom line oriented, you know, as all the numbers be productive. That's a set of environmental
00:25:12.010 --> 00:25:13.170 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: clues.
00:25:14.090 --> 00:25:15.030 hacks some
00:25:15.150 --> 00:25:22.530 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: leadership in different ways, not totally to the exclusion. But I need to know that in this environment the question is going to be
00:25:22.580 --> 00:25:25.410 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: much money did we make? How much money did we save?
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:38.599 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Even if part of conversation is, how diverse are we, how we're treating people. But I need to have some sense. Think about emotional intelligence from an organizational standpoint. First, I need to have some sense about. What is this environment?
00:25:39.090 --> 00:25:43.349 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: You know? What? What are the goals and objectives and missions of this environment?
00:25:43.420 --> 00:25:49.800 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And I said, A little bit during the before the break, too. What's the band of tolerance for that organization?
00:25:50.600 --> 00:25:54.180 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Do things differently? You know you could say, do things differently, because.
00:25:54.250 --> 00:26:04.630 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: for the organization has been successful for the last 50 quarters in a row, or the one that's been unsuccessful for the last 50 quarters in a row. There is something about what's the appetite
00:26:04.660 --> 00:26:10.180 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: doing something different. And so as a leader, somebody coming in trying to influence an impact.
00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:14.249 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: this organization, I somehow now the need to know.
00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:21.079 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Well, they don't care about the money that they left off on the table. They're making so much money, anyway.
00:26:21.320 --> 00:26:25.570 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I've worked with some organizations where they they didn't care about the money that they were
00:26:25.610 --> 00:26:30.179 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: leaving on the table or losing because they're about to be sold, anyway.
00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:33.650 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I mean, so some of us that nuance. So what's what's needed?
00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:37.540 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Same thing about the individuals around me and in the team. And
00:26:37.740 --> 00:26:47.799 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I have a client I was talking with yesterday who said that? And this is so common a new hired, newly hired senior person? If you ask them
00:26:47.870 --> 00:26:51.029 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: at some point, they may say I was brought in to be a change agent.
00:26:51.430 --> 00:26:59.250 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and then they might. They might wanna laugh and say, but nobody told the people that are working for me that I'm the change agent, right? So
00:26:59.270 --> 00:27:07.059 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: so I come in with this passion and this permission. and make this difference. But I have to understand that
00:27:07.300 --> 00:27:16.040 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I have somebody who's working with me that's been doing it for 30 years in the last 15 leaders that he or she had said, don't worry about me, or you're doing a fine job.
00:27:16.430 --> 00:27:20.439 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Now I come in, wired to change things in a hurry.
00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:24.550 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: then they are not ready to roll.
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:37.519 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: so now I have to have this mindset of. Can I see what they see, feel what they feel? And I go back again to what are my options? So if I have options about how to get them on board. I'm just going to be that much more
00:27:38.280 --> 00:27:41.830 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: effective in the long run, versatile in the short run.
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.030 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and then I think, also
00:27:44.450 --> 00:27:49.659 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: more impactful as a leader, because part of me on the leadership piece is certainly not
00:27:49.760 --> 00:27:51.730 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: not just doing it myself.
00:27:52.010 --> 00:27:57.680 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So over the years I've come to accept that by various measures
00:27:57.810 --> 00:28:01.029 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I resisted this for a long time, but by various measures
00:28:01.050 --> 00:28:03.240 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: happen to have this I need for power.
00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:12.059 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Now I can say that comfortably, because sometimes I say that's the same as having high need for influence. But if you really want to cut through it?
00:28:12.270 --> 00:28:19.909 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Am I driven by the need for power, slash influence? Are you driven by the need for affiliation? Are you driven by the need for achievement?
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:26.709 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I need to be clear about what really is satisfying my itch and my urge and my my motivation.
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.429 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Then I've got to be able to have some degree of flexibility.
00:28:31.040 --> 00:28:36.779 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: some diversity of of my options, because I've got diversity of resources all around me
00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:47.169 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: to be able to adjust it. That's part of what I mean by the environment. The organization is also the people and then layered into, and both of those is kind of this tolerance for
00:28:47.390 --> 00:28:49.919 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: tolerance, exception, absorption, rate.
00:28:50.010 --> 00:28:53.780 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: or doing things differently than than before.
00:28:54.190 --> 00:29:01.630 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So I'm hearing a couple of things person, fit environment for leaders is important.
00:29:01.790 --> 00:29:09.419 Mira Brancu: and clarity of, do you have enough clarity of what the organizational needs are the clarity of the impact that you can make
00:29:09.580 --> 00:29:14.660 Mira Brancu: and I really appreciated that your definition of leadership
00:29:15.090 --> 00:29:17.440 Mira Brancu: around influence and impact.
00:29:17.660 --> 00:29:34.810 Mira Brancu: Did not necessarily have any piece of it that involves positional power, necessarily influence from ever anywhere. Really, as long as you're put in the right position with the right environment and a charge.
00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:38.860 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and that's intentional as well. Right? So that's another part of it, because I don't.
00:29:39.070 --> 00:29:39.770 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I don't.
00:29:40.520 --> 00:29:48.559 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I don't know if I would get check marks of effective leadership if someone's literally said. And by observation we saw that.
00:29:48.860 --> 00:29:52.889 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know they came in and did what they got to do, and people
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:55.170 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: looked at it and took something from it.
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:01.529 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I don't know if that's what follow my category of leadership. If along the way they said, Well, let me show you how to do this.
00:30:02.580 --> 00:30:04.999 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Now you go do it on your own. Don't bug me anymore.
00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:10.219 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I didn't think of that as leadership, because it was intentional. I want to tell you something that I do
00:30:12.310 --> 00:30:14.020 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and then the leak give you room
00:30:14.610 --> 00:30:16.440 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: to do it on your own.
00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:44.769 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So let's talk some more about your framework when we come back. Also, I just wanna say, Hi, Catherine Hall, I see Linkedin comment. She's tuning in from New Mexico. Nice to see you here. If you do have questions, let us know but thanks for tuning in. So you are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest, Dr. Greg Pennington. We air at 5 Pm. Eastern. On Tuesdays. We'll be right back
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.640 Mira Brancu: after these advertisements.
00:32:48.350 --> 00:32:58.819 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Maya Bronku and our guest, Dr. Greg Pennington. Now we have been talking about
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:05.230 Mira Brancu: the right stage and circumstances for how to lean into leadership
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:10.720 Mira Brancu: and how to find that productive tension when it comes to finding that leadership, identity.
00:33:10.830 --> 00:33:13.839 Mira Brancu: and a leadership signature. So
00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:21.520 Mira Brancu: I would love to hear more about Greg, how you help leaders specifically think through and develop
00:33:21.780 --> 00:33:33.589 Mira Brancu: their leadership signature as they're thinking through all of these things there's so many factors to consider. I know you have a 6 stage model as you help people work through the workbook.
00:33:34.090 --> 00:33:41.220 Mira Brancu: so I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you help leaders, either through the workbook or just through your your coaching, and work with them.
00:33:41.430 --> 00:33:45.979 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Sure, and the the the book slash workbook really was
00:33:45.990 --> 00:33:52.170 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: my efforts to put in one space what I found myself consistently doing
00:33:52.300 --> 00:33:54.959 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: over coaching engagements. So
00:33:55.080 --> 00:34:07.669 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: It really is me in print, and me working with others in print. But let me go quickly through those 6 stages with a little bit of of why, they're there. And you know we've been talking about the first one, which is
00:34:07.810 --> 00:34:10.290 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: You know how to even define
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.809 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: leadership. And what have you come to expect
00:34:12.820 --> 00:34:15.500 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: in that definition. Now the
00:34:15.510 --> 00:34:24.809 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Pathway for people. for me that has worked has been to have them talk about real live examples of leaders that they've experienced
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:31.540 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and doing that in a fairly detailed way. And I say, leaders, that experience. I don't want you to talk about Lee. Aya cocoa. If you never worked
00:34:31.650 --> 00:34:35.880 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: with him or for him. Real people, because it's just much more genuine data
00:34:36.060 --> 00:34:40.590 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: has embedded in, and all the emotional attractions that you had there.
00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:51.669 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and every step really is driven by this notion of patterns. So who are the 3 leaders that come to mind? And then what's common about them? What are the patterns you see in them, and
00:34:51.690 --> 00:34:57.949 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: how do you define them? So the definition I gave earlier really is mine. Others may even have something that's very different.
00:34:58.080 --> 00:35:04.000 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: But I think you start off by saying, what do I even mean by you know leadership? So that's the really the first stage.
00:35:04.100 --> 00:35:09.579 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: then the second part of it is you know that. And people talk so much about this. Why.
00:35:09.620 --> 00:35:24.380 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, what's the mission? What's your personal mission? I never thought of myself as a natural born leader. I can give you examples early on where? Well, why are they calling on me? I just rather sit in the background and leave leave me alone. So there's something
00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:31.230 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: activation of all our behaviors and energies that I think fall in that category of why do you do what you do?
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:44.240 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Not? What do you do? But why do you do what you do? And some of the the work in the in terms of pathways on there is, I don't know. It's just lots of different questions. I mean, what have you been? What have you been doing all of your life for most of your life.
00:35:44.310 --> 00:36:03.999 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: When you have downtime, when you have discretionary time, when you what are the things that you do that you suddenly realize, hey? It's been 2 HI didn't realize that there's something that I'm wired to do as early as you pick them child development people. Maybe it's as early as 3, 4, 5 years of age, but there's something that gives you pleasure.
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:10.189 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: For me, and we could talk more about this. I've been doing Jood, since I was 10.
00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:13.070 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I've been drawing since kindergarten.
00:36:13.640 --> 00:36:29.889 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I've been dancing for probably last 40 50 years, so but all those things become metaphors, for how I do coaching, how I look at organizations! But there are also sources of satisfaction. And so, if I was to dissect any one of those. There's something about taking
00:36:30.120 --> 00:36:40.560 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: patterns and creating creating something out of those patterns like we said in the early music, what are those specs, and how do they work together? So there's something as pleasurable about for me.
00:36:40.650 --> 00:36:46.890 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Whatever the personal pursuit is, professional or passion pursuit is that's related to
00:36:47.130 --> 00:36:51.269 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: what do I see, what can I add to it? How do I pull these things together?
00:36:51.460 --> 00:37:09.180 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So the mission, your why is that second part there? And I do think between the work that we do mirror. Sometimes people would say, I just assume, be an individual contributor, you know, then, a leader. So such a credit in some ways an obvious question, but in some ways, many ways a critical one.
00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:11.170 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Why do you even do this one?
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:15.489 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Can I ask you something about that before we get to the third
00:37:15.590 --> 00:37:21.390 Mira Brancu: I feel like you need to know yourself well enough to know why you do the things that you do.
00:37:21.720 --> 00:37:26.789 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Well, I wouldn't disagree with that. I would just say that.
00:37:27.470 --> 00:37:28.499 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I'm I'm I'm
00:37:28.670 --> 00:37:34.419 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: lean in on this because I have a 4 year old grandson, and or 1 one year, grand granddaughter, but
00:37:34.580 --> 00:37:39.680 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I do believe early, early early on you're getting
00:37:39.720 --> 00:37:40.730 patterns of
00:37:40.790 --> 00:37:46.520 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: satisfaction. So the know yourself. Part of it, I think, is always a valid question.
00:37:46.660 --> 00:37:57.710 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I also think also would say that sometimes when I've asked people to say, Give me 3, give me 3 examples of of, and make it even work related. Give me 3 examples at work
00:37:58.030 --> 00:38:01.709 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: that you would say would be your highlight reel
00:38:01.810 --> 00:38:04.370 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: terms of I was totally satisfied with that
00:38:04.710 --> 00:38:27.670 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: so? It isn't even necessarily them. Say, well, when I was the leader of this, or when I had this special project is somewhere. By the time you get to the third one, they will say, Oh, you know, seem like at every one of those I was most excited, so is to know yourself sometimes that know yourself is just waiting for you to put those specs on the paper, and then we step back and you say, Oh, that
00:38:27.870 --> 00:38:30.640 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I used to think that it was 3 dots. It's actually
00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:37.509 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: a triangle, you know. So that revelation. I think, is, is arguably just right there.
00:38:37.580 --> 00:38:39.220 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: But it's also
00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:44.739 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and Aha! Because most many people don't pause long enough to say.
00:38:45.150 --> 00:38:49.959 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: why do I do the things that I do? And what is it about those things
00:38:50.080 --> 00:38:52.869 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: that I actually am trying to replicate
00:38:53.190 --> 00:38:57.960 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: in every other thing that I do. So good point do I know myself, and
00:38:58.010 --> 00:39:03.729 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: happens at various times. But if you think, knowing yourself is related to
00:39:03.750 --> 00:39:10.130 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I am inclined to go after things that give me pleasure. and I'm disinclined to go after things that give me pain.
00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:23.399 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and if you are older than 5 or 6, you got through the terrible twos, you get ample data to begin to answer that one is, especially if you don't answer it in the context of a specific job or role.
00:39:23.510 --> 00:39:27.439 Mira Brancu: it's in the context of you as a you help people
00:39:27.930 --> 00:39:36.089 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: get to look at their data points. Yeah, yeah. And just asking the question is part of that part. So
00:39:36.230 --> 00:39:43.550 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I do recognize this third one is that you know, leaders have to have some vision.
00:39:43.690 --> 00:39:46.990 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: be able to see what's not there, or see what's on the
00:39:47.330 --> 00:39:51.200 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: horizon, and that's not really myst mystical.
00:39:52.340 --> 00:39:53.440 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Think there's a
00:39:53.530 --> 00:39:56.229 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: true, if people believe that part.
00:39:56.810 --> 00:40:00.340 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: the question becomes, where do you get the data points?
00:40:00.640 --> 00:40:06.149 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And someone talked to me to share with me the the metaphor of
00:40:06.190 --> 00:40:16.900 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: You know the connective connective dots. So do I collect dots. So I read, I read this book and that book and that book. I went to this podcast on what they're. So I'm accumulating stuff.
00:40:17.080 --> 00:40:30.479 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So in the process of working with people, I would ask for what do you usually read, where do you get your? Where do you get your dots from? Where do you get your pixel dots from? Now? Work with a CEO? And when we did the talent reviews.
00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:35.809 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: the the least obvious question he would always ask was, I wonder what she reads.
00:40:36.750 --> 00:40:58.069 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: which I thought was fascinating, because the truth was, when I've worked, talked to many of those executives. Some of them only read technical journals, journeys, journals, some of them read. I mean, it's just isolated, limited stuff, but I find it a a fair number of senior leaders read autobiographies. Read, non, you know. Read fictions, read. It's something that stimulates your thinking.
00:40:58.220 --> 00:41:15.099 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: which gives you the platform and as someone who reasonably created from a join standpoint. Ii sometimes used to think that people just magically pull things out. But it's more factual that I've seen something on. And I unconsciously connect them together.
00:41:15.170 --> 00:41:39.479 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So how do I gather? How do I input all of the stuff in order to be able to see the the vision is out there. So the book has some several pathways about that. What do you? Where you accumulating stuff? And do you even have some with some fun exercises? Years ago there was this, a book called Freakonomic, something like that idle, and it was just fascinating from the sense of somebody would say.
00:41:40.110 --> 00:41:49.899 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: wonder if we put that house next to you? Know him? Lines on skirts. What we see is related, just asking the questions about
00:41:50.680 --> 00:41:54.280 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: so again, and grand grandchild reference
00:41:55.230 --> 00:42:05.690 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Sesame Street. I wonder what if let's try so just that natural curiosity, I think, is pretty compelling as as a leader.
00:42:05.860 --> 00:42:08.210 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: 2, 3 more, I think. Impact.
00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:23.230 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know. Cause you do have to have some impact. I mean, II referenced this earlier. And then, for the sake of representing how I think of it, and maybe even narrowing it, I do think of impact as what buttons can I push?
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.419 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Where do I? What am I? So what are my sources of power
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:32.690 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and influence and impact? And one of them really is this need for power? I can be real, direct.
00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:36.300 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I can be an intentional. I can take the lead.
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:38.420 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I can build
00:42:38.830 --> 00:43:03.190 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: collaborations. You know, I can make people feel safe number of those things. So in the in the book, and then the coaching engagements I will talk about you know, we'll give me some examples. So all this is around. Give me some examples. What are some real live experiences that you had? Give me 3 examples of you trying to convince someone to do something different. What did you say? What were you thinking? What did you do?
00:43:03.270 --> 00:43:11.630 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And they can dissect that one you can do some thematic analysis of that. You can do some, you know. patterns in that.
00:43:12.150 --> 00:43:27.009 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: So sometimes it's very oriented to words. You know, if somebody says that well, in this instance I want to make sure people felt good. or in this instance I want to make sure people will clear about what we're working on. Just that subtle difference gives the person some other feedback about.
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:33.790 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: You know the things that come to your mind about when you are demonstrating leadership. having to have these similarities.
00:43:33.810 --> 00:43:41.770 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: If that's true, then how could you be even more intentional about that one cause? That's the natural part. You know part of your leadership signature piece on it.
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:49.109 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And then the capability is is the next one in it for me, because as a leader. I think we're all challenged to get more from more.
00:43:51.030 --> 00:44:10.529 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I want to get more out of more people. I want to fully utilize all my resources. This is the most explicit connection to me about diversity. Because I have a diversity of orientations, a diversity of lives have a diversity of experiences, and you know, list goes on and on. If I have diversity, I'm guaranteed to have more complexity.
00:44:10.690 --> 00:44:40.430 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and if have more complexity, I benefit from having more options. So there's an old exercise, probably from social psychology. We support the your least prefer coworker. So from a practical pathway standpoint, sometimes I'll ask leaders said, well, give me. Let's talk about the last 3 teams that you had, whether you inherited them or not. So give me their names. Who are they? And tell me if you had to choose someone to lead this really important project? Who will be your most preferred
00:44:40.870 --> 00:44:47.299 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: person? Right? So you stack them up. and then to the degree. Somebody can see
00:44:47.650 --> 00:45:12.669 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: an opportunity to utilize all of them. Then that's a higher level of capability, fully utilizing all of my resources, but some people are pretty obviously when they give to the listing. I don't know what to do with Mira. I don't know what to do with Greg, or you know I'm not gonna put them on the project, because that's a limiting part. And again, if I see that the next part for me. I'm kind of figuring out what your signature is is
00:45:13.040 --> 00:45:15.979 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know. Are you wired to build capability?
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:23.230 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Are you a leader as coach? I work with someone who said, what my metaphor for leadership is, coach like
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.350 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: athletic coaching. The truth is, he was really
00:45:26.610 --> 00:45:31.889 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: autocratic. Close to that one of those bullied bosses. And and so I said.
00:45:31.990 --> 00:45:44.039 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: as a coach, are you? Are you? How are you as a game coach compared to a practice coach? And he paused for a second and said, well. actually, I'm much more game, coach
00:45:44.370 --> 00:45:48.029 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: difference being if you didn't make the block. I pulled you out.
00:45:48.260 --> 00:45:51.199 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: put somebody in. you know. Practice coach.
00:45:51.290 --> 00:45:55.029 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: what happened on that plane? What were you missing? So
00:45:55.100 --> 00:46:04.440 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: they were clear about their style. less clear about the implications of it and the limitations of it. So you get some of that places there as well. Yeah.
00:46:04.570 --> 00:46:06.080 Mira Brancu: awesome.
00:46:06.620 --> 00:46:20.220 Mira Brancu: let's continue the conversation about being wired to build capability after the next add break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Maya Branku and our guest, Dr. Greg Pennington. We'll be right back in just a moment.
00:48:18.550 --> 00:48:30.170 Mira Brancu: welcome back to the heart skills with me, Dr. Maya Broncu and our guest, Dr. Pennington. Now we have talked about the first 5 of his 6
00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:41.479 Mira Brancu: steps to developing that signature leadership, that leadership signature. Define leadership. Right?
00:48:41.600 --> 00:48:44.110 Mira Brancu: Why, you do the things that you do
00:48:44.980 --> 00:48:52.060 Mira Brancu: vision. How do you get to it? Impact and influence
00:48:53.090 --> 00:48:54.590 Mira Brancu: and capability?
00:48:54.610 --> 00:49:03.549 Mira Brancu: And also, how are you wired to build that capability? And that's where kind of the diversity piece starts hitting as well.
00:49:03.820 --> 00:49:05.650 Mira Brancu: There's one more piece
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:12.049 Mira Brancu: that's left. What is that last piece, Dr. Pendleton? The last piece is, what is your legacy?
00:49:12.130 --> 00:49:16.630 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And that was interesting in that and you actually def
00:49:16.750 --> 00:49:27.320 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: buying your legacy, do you purposely build it? And maybe there's an argument for both of those. The truth is that others talk about your legacy. So what
00:49:27.340 --> 00:49:32.070 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: what difference did you make to home. and what is said? About you
00:49:32.140 --> 00:49:41.389 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: after you're gone, or what have you set in motion? That survives your your your transitioning, you know afterwards? So no.
00:49:41.430 --> 00:49:49.099 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: on the on the legacy pieces. That's probably the least self-centered one in in the book. But is is that
00:49:49.300 --> 00:49:55.349 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: but the push in the in the book is to get a sense about what would people say about you.
00:49:56.290 --> 00:49:57.220 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: What
00:49:58.120 --> 00:50:19.930 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: in the organization still exists about you? And so that's been fascinating, too, to get people to say you know, you know my legacy. I see it in the people that were left behind after I was gone. Here the systems are put in place. So that list is of really more sobering in a sense of
00:50:19.950 --> 00:50:22.950 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and it's in some ways a transition from the
00:50:23.180 --> 00:50:35.130 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: from the personal responsibility that's implied and everything else. What's your signature? What have you done? How do you impact? And so it's an attendant or noticeable shift from
00:50:35.270 --> 00:50:37.220 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: After you've done all you can do.
00:50:37.770 --> 00:50:49.439 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: what difference it didn't make in the eyes of others. And that's a humbling piece of it, Mira. And you know, for people to say oh, yeah, she was here, or he was here. But I remember what they did.
00:50:49.780 --> 00:51:04.660 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Now, can I predict that? I don't know. But maybe that goes back to where we started that productive tension, you know. Am I doing this for me? Am I doing it for the organization? Am I doing it for this moment in time, or am I doing it for some.
00:51:04.940 --> 00:51:09.329 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, continuation of of time after I'm gone, after I've moved on.
00:51:09.580 --> 00:51:13.059 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And and I think what's important here is intentionality.
00:51:13.330 --> 00:51:18.360 Mira Brancu: Right? This is really what we're talking about in terms of how you help leaders.
00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:22.180 Mira Brancu: how I help leaders. What we try to pull out
00:51:22.230 --> 00:51:28.470 Mira Brancu: is if you're going to get all the way to that legacy piece, you do have to be intentional all the way.
00:51:28.490 --> 00:51:30.400 Mira Brancu: and if you're going to be
00:51:30.690 --> 00:51:32.960 Mira Brancu: intentional
00:51:33.010 --> 00:51:39.259 Mira Brancu: about what's important to you? Why is it important? How do you go about doing it?
00:51:39.350 --> 00:51:42.559 Mira Brancu: You will get there, but it does take
00:51:42.700 --> 00:51:54.149 Mira Brancu: slowing down and thinking through. And that's exactly it sounds like what you help leaders do through your books, through your work is helping them slow down and think more intentionally around their
00:51:54.500 --> 00:52:13.900 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: leadership signature. Yeah, yeah. And you know, and here you say it to me, or just reminds me and pulls out even more explicitly that each one of those steps is, you know, to contribute into each of the other steps. You know, my vision really should include we can do some things now.
00:52:14.200 --> 00:52:18.470 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, I can see some things that are happening in the next 3 months. 6 months.
00:52:18.580 --> 00:52:34.539 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: How far out can I see beyond that, because that does inform and influence everything else I do. How far can I see clearly? The capability part is is that as well? I mean. Sometimes I talk about. And then in this interaction, sometimes we talk about delegation.
00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:41.239 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and it's it's another Aha! Moment for people to realize that sometimes they delegate for delivery.
00:52:41.540 --> 00:52:43.999 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and sometimes they delegate for development.
00:52:44.470 --> 00:52:46.140 Mira Brancu: Thank you.
00:52:46.420 --> 00:52:51.339 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Project to you because it's due on Friday, and the Board can't take any mistakes.
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:55.430 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I'm gonna give another person a project that they can stumble with.
00:52:55.730 --> 00:53:01.890 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Next year, next quarter they have that much more capability. So even in the capability arena.
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:06.240 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: it's there's a legacy focus is everything about legacy is continuity and
00:53:06.430 --> 00:53:10.179 Mira Brancu: and a sustainability absolutely. So
00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:16.789 Mira Brancu: what is one thing you would like people to take away? And where can they find you
00:53:16.870 --> 00:53:18.269 Mira Brancu: if they need more?
00:53:18.670 --> 00:53:22.500 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Yeah, I think what I would. What I would love for people to take away
00:53:22.530 --> 00:53:24.039 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: is that
00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:34.859 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: you know, just just I would love people take away, except in the fact that I have some agency about what happens to me and what happens to others, and
00:53:35.870 --> 00:53:45.090 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: do it in a genuine way. That really does represent my signature, my style, and there's some value in me bringing my whole self to this
00:53:45.250 --> 00:53:47.669 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: and and making a difference in that regard.
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:50.730 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: And People can find me.
00:53:50.990 --> 00:53:53.150 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: I'm so easy to find. So
00:53:53.370 --> 00:53:57.460 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: if my website is pinpoint consulting group.com.
00:53:57.520 --> 00:54:20.769 Mira Brancu: There it is! There it is! Isn't it gorgeous? I'm if you're watching, live, or if you're gonna watch the recording here it is. I'm always drooling over his website. Obviously, he adds his own artistic spin to everything. So it's just beautiful. Yeah. And it feels like me, too. Even the Pcg pinpoint consulting group. You know, passion and commitment lead to growth.
00:54:21.470 --> 00:54:34.939 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: Pinpoint hasn't pinning to. I can go on and on, but that's certainly an example of somebody who's a little introvert and somewhat humble, saying, I want to find the blend that says I'm confident and and proud of myself without it. Come across as cocky.
00:54:35.030 --> 00:54:43.410 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: but that's where you can find me and Linkedins as as well, and don't hesitate to reach out to me comment. I try to respond to. I probably respond to
00:54:43.450 --> 00:54:45.419 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: 95% of the people who
00:54:45.450 --> 00:54:51.869 Greg Pennington, Ph.D.: say you have a minute, so would love to say, get connected and stay connected to any and all of you
00:54:52.240 --> 00:55:06.339 Mira Brancu: awesome. Thank you again. That's pen, PENN point, pen point consulting group.com. You can find him, or, of course, at Linkedin. So thank you, Dr. Greg Pennington, for being on the show.
00:55:06.510 --> 00:55:15.010 Mira Brancu: Thank you for those of you looking for a structured results driven method to develop your leadership, identity and effectiveness.
00:55:15.720 --> 00:55:20.829 Mira Brancu: especially a women's centered group applications for our 2024
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:26.430 Mira Brancu: tower Scope Leadership Academy as a reminder of open through January 20 s.
00:55:26.550 --> 00:55:28.530 Mira Brancu: you can head over to our website.
00:55:28.560 --> 00:55:35.490 Mira Brancu: WWW. Go towerscope.com click on Leadership Academy. If it seems like a good fit.
00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:48.720 Mira Brancu: I would recommend not staying, staying in your head, wondering if you should apply. Just apply right away. Set up the interview early, because we do make decisions as we begin interviewing, and we have limited slots, you might as well just try.
00:55:49.390 --> 00:55:51.210 Mira Brancu: So. Audience.
00:55:51.220 --> 00:55:55.469 Mira Brancu: what did you take away from our conversation with Dr. Pennington?
00:55:55.730 --> 00:56:17.989 Mira Brancu: And, more importantly, what's one small change you can implement this week, based on what you learned from Greg. He shared a lot of implementable and implementable practical things that you can start right away, and you can also buy his book and work through it because it's in a workbook. So what's one small thing, one small change. Share it with us on Linkedin.
00:56:18.590 --> 00:56:38.450 Mira Brancu: at Mirabranku or@talkradio.nyc. so we can cheer you on. As also at Greg Pennington. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter Twitch at talk radio and Nyc all over the place. But Linkedin is where I live. I'm pretty sure it's where he lives online. So come, join us there.
00:56:38.780 --> 00:56:58.880 Mira Brancu: In addition to being live show we're on itunes and spotify. Come, join us there, leave a review, share with others, and thank you to talk radio and Nyc for hosting. I'm Dr. Mirabanku, your host of the Heart Skills show. Thank you for joining us today with Dr. Pennington. Have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning it from. Thank you, Greg.
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