The Hard Skills

Tuesday, November 28, 2023
Facebook Live Video from 2023/11/28 - Self-Reinvention: Thinking Strategically About Your Career

Facebook Live Video from 2023/11/28 - Self-Reinvention: Thinking Strategically About Your Career


2023/11/28 - Self-Reinvention: Thinking Strategically About Your Career

[NEW EPISODE] Self-Reinvention: Thinking Strategically About Your Career

Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)                              


The audience will learn about long-term thinking, Career Reinvention, and the real reason you feel so busy!

How can you finally take control of your busy life? Dorie Clark shares how long-term thinking and Career Reinvention helped her and many others have a career transformation and the challenges we must overcome to get there. 

Dorie Clark helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in a crowded, noisy world. She has been named one of the Top 50 business thinkers in the world by Thinkers50. She was honored as the #1 Communication Coach in the world by the Marshall Goldsmith Leading Global Coaches Awards, and one of the Top 5 Communication Professionals in the World by Global Gurus. She is a keynote speaker and teaches executive education for Columbia Business School. She is the Wall Street Journal bestselling author of The Long Game, Entrepreneurial You, Reinventing You, and Stand Out, which was named the #1 Leadership Book of the Year by Inc. magazine. Dorie has been described by the New York Times as an “expert at self-reinvention and helping others make changes in their lives.” She is a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and you can download her free Long Game Strategic Thinking Self-Assessment at She has a TED talk, “The real reason you feel so busy.”

 #self-reinvention, #careerreinvention #careerdevelopment #leadershipdevelopment #leadershipcoaching

Tune in for this empowering conversation at

Show Notes

Segment  1

On this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Brancu is joined by Dorie Clark, a communication coach, TEDTalk speaker, author, and keynote speaker, as they will be discussing long-term thinking and career reinvention. To start the conversation, Dr. Brancu asks how Dorie got to where she is today since she has a history of reinventing herself and her career. Dr. Brancu also shares that she too has reinvented herself, going through different types of careers and asks what types of challenges a person may face if they are considering reinventing themselves. Dorie answers that why people may be hesitant or may be facing hardships is because of temporary loss of status and the fact they have to take a step back career-wise.

Segment 2

After the first break, we return to Dr. Brancu and Dorie return to the topic of some of the different challenges one may face when reinventing themselves. Dorie then shares what she thinks are important to think about and what actions they need to take to address different challenges. Dorie highlights that there will be people like family and friends that will add a dynamic that will attempt to “save” a person who wants to reinvent themself from making a mistake. In preparation to reinvent an individual’s identity, Dorie then shares that it is worth it to do the research and explore different paths a person wants to potentially make. Dorie then becomes curious about Dr. Brancu’s journey from being a clinical psychologist to an organizational psychologist. So, Dr. Brancu shares her journey and how she reinvented herself to the career she has today. 

Segment 3

Moving on, Dorie shares their thoughts on how someone moving into a new leadership position, may think about the concepts they have previously discussed into their own workplace. Dorie highlights that our brains run on auto-piolet once we have developed a routine and have a steady state of mind. Our brains will be challenged if someone is trying to reinvent themselves while staying in the same organization because it is out of the normal for a person. Dr. Brancu and Dorie also discuss long-term thinking and how it applies to reinventing our identity. They also discuss a quote from one of Dorie’s books about the risk of putting in the time and work to reinvent have the chance of no success. Dorie highlights that it is important to recognize that not everything happens in an instant, some things take time to develop. Guarantees don’t happen immediately, so being patient and having the courage to roll the dice will determine the outcome of the risk someone is taking. 

Segment 4

As the episode comes to an end, Dr. Brancu and Dorie pick up where they left off in the previous segment, which was if the risk worth it despite putting in all the work and the calculations when making that choice. From there, Dr. Brancu asks what Dorie wants viewers and listeners what they should take away from their discussion. Dorie shares that if the listeners can take anything away is that change happens a lot, so find ways to keep things fresh in your mind and to make it an effort to put yourself out there when learning something new. To learn more about Dorie or if you have any questions, to reach out to her on her website at


00:00:36.410 --> 00:01:00.389 Mira Brancu: welcome. Welcome to the hard skills showing podcast, with me. Dr. Mirabu, I work with leaders in healthcare research stem and other technical fields, who want to develop an authentic leadership identity and create a healthy, inclusive workplace environment to retain the best people doing the best work, in other words, developing the hard skills

00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:10.210 Mira Brancu: needed to make a greater impact. Now, this season, we're focusing on developing identity, which is the second stage of my strategic leadership pathway model.

00:01:10.340 --> 00:01:20.769 Mira Brancu: And to day we have a really special guest, Dorie Clark, and we're going to talk about self reinvention and thinking strategically about your career.

00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:25.359 Mira Brancu: Now, we value evidence-based practical solutions.

00:01:25.380 --> 00:01:37.140 Mira Brancu: And so I take notes. I want you to take notes to reflect deeply and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills muscle based on this conversation.

00:01:37.660 --> 00:01:51.319 Mira Brancu: Let me introduce Dorie Clark. She helps individuals and companies get their best ideas heard in crowded, noisy world. She's been named one of the top 50 business thinkers in the world by thinkers 50.

00:01:51.450 --> 00:02:14.199 Mira Brancu: She was honored as a number one communication coach in the world by Marshall Goldsmith, leading global coaches and awards, and one of the top 5 communication professionals in the world by global Gurus. She's a keynote speaker and teaches executive education for Columbia Business School. Among other things, she's the Wall Street Journal, best-selling author of the Long Game

00:02:14.350 --> 00:02:16.210 Mira Brancu: entrepreneurial. You

00:02:16.470 --> 00:02:22.880 Mira Brancu: reinventing you and stand out, which was named the number one leadership book of the year by Ink Magazine.

00:02:22.930 --> 00:02:30.039 Mira Brancu: Dory has also been described by New York Times as an expert at self reinvention. Which is true. We're going to get into that

00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:32.839 Mira Brancu: and helping others make changes in their lives.

00:02:33.090 --> 00:02:44.749 Mira Brancu: She's a frequent contributor to the Harvard Business Review. and you can download her free, long game, strategic thinking, self assessment, which we'll talk

00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:48.009 Mira Brancu: backslash the long game.

00:02:48.330 --> 00:03:10.089 Mira Brancu: She has also a Ted Talk. The real reason you feel so busy that I bet every single person listening to this is going to be interested in. So Dori, I learned about you and a number of different ways, one of them being that you're part of Marshall Goldsmith Goldsmith 100 Coaches agency community.

00:03:10.100 --> 00:03:18.049 Mira Brancu: and I joined as a founding member of the forefront program, which is like his next step, legacy powered by 100 coaches.

00:03:18.390 --> 00:03:29.570 Mira Brancu: I'm also in Dori's recognize expert community a fantastic resource if you haven't checked it out to grow as a recognized expert in one's field.

00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:44.419 Mira Brancu: And Dorie, you and I both have appointments at Duke University. You in the business school, me in the School of Medicine, so we seem to kind of travel in parallel, I guess.

00:03:44.820 --> 00:04:05.439 Mira Brancu: Welcome, welcome. Glad to have you on the show. Thank you, Mira. Glad to. Glad to be here, and thanks so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely so. I did have a chance to binge a number of your books in the past few days. And and when I say binge read. It was like so pleasant and so easy

00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:18.550 Mira Brancu: to read your books like there's still you write in such a way that it is like so easily digestible, and so readable for so many people, so applicable for so many people, so before we get into that, though.

00:04:19.790 --> 00:04:26.449 Mira Brancu: help us understand like, how did you get to this? You know? You help busy people

00:04:26.580 --> 00:04:34.890 Mira Brancu: take control of their lives through things like long game thinking and career reinvention. But you started out in journalism

00:04:35.050 --> 00:04:38.450 Mira Brancu: and campaign management

00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:52.730 Mira Brancu: with a college major in philosophy and a graduate degree in theology. And so you're kind of the epitome of reinvention yourself. How? How did you get to this point in your career? Transformation?

00:04:53.050 --> 00:05:08.430 Dorie Clark: Yeah, thank you. Mira. So one of the the things that I talk about. And actually, my, my first book reinventing you is the difference between what I call capital R. Reinvention and lowercase, our reinvention and lowercase. Our reinvention

00:05:08.430 --> 00:05:30.470 Dorie Clark: is the kind of, you know, sort of pleasant like. Oh, let's let's keep our skills fresh, you know. We sometimes forget to do that, but it's a very helpful thing. But when we think about reinventing ourselves, what we typically think about is the capital r, the big change, the you know, changing changing careers or some kind of trauma or whatever. And the the truth is,

00:05:30.470 --> 00:05:46.639 Dorie Clark: the way that I got to what I am doing now is definitely a product of capital or reinvention. It was things not working out the way that I had anticipated. And so it's true that in many cases it can lead you to better places or places that you can't predict.

00:05:46.980 --> 00:06:16.040 Dorie Clark: But originally I wanted to be an academic, and so I got a Master's degree. But then I got turned down by all the doctoral programs that I applied to, so I had to kinda scratch, scratch that off the list although I did later come back to Academia in a different form. So that's another possibility. And then I thought, I'll be a journalist and II was but then I got laid off pretty early on as well. So I think that one of the key elements of reinvention in our modern society is just recognizing

00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:24.359 Dorie Clark: we have hypotheses and the truth is, sometimes they work out a lot of times they don't, and we just have to be nimble enough to kind of keep going.

00:06:25.100 --> 00:06:38.560 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. This is bringing up so many memories and about my own career path. Many have seen my own reinvention. Several times I went from a school counselor

00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:47.050 Mira Brancu: to a clinical psychologist, for like a day before, I went into management and leadership, and then an organizational psychologist who

00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:52.570 Mira Brancu: at the time. Everyone only knew me as a researcher in PTSD.

00:06:53.160 --> 00:07:18.129 Mira Brancu: And I really wasn't gonna keep doing that. At that point I wanted to be known as someone who worked with women leadership, you know, into women leadership. So reinventing myself, took quite a bit of work and rethinking, and as I was reading your own books, I was seeing myself in in that path, you know. And so

00:07:19.650 --> 00:07:23.159 Mira Brancu: what are the what are the challenges

00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:28.000 Mira Brancu: that you see, some people experience when

00:07:28.630 --> 00:07:33.190 Mira Brancu: when they think about this sort of daunting idea of

00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:39.170 Mira Brancu: having a new career, or, you know, being able to help other people see them in a different way.

00:07:40.470 --> 00:07:58.800 Dorie Clark: Yeah, it's it can feel very daunting for people. II think I ironically, it's it's not. It's not so much. You know people people sometimes talk about. Oh, well, you know, it's easy if you're in your twenties, but you know I'm older. It's you know, hard for me, or it's impossible for me, and

00:07:58.880 --> 00:08:07.680 Dorie Clark: I really want to say it's not that it is impossible for people, once they hit a certain threshold, whether that's 40, or 50, or 60, or or whatever it is.

00:08:07.700 --> 00:08:21.440 Dorie Clark: but I think that the part that is troubling for people and makes them perhaps feel emotionally, that it's impossible is that there is a temporary loss of status, and that is really hard to deal with, because, you know.

00:08:21.640 --> 00:08:50.700 Dorie Clark: the truth is, if you're 24, and you lose your job, and you you have to switch to something else, you know. Okay, you were probably the lowest ranked employee at your in your old firm. Now you're the old, the lowest ranked employee at your new firm. It's not that big of a of a deal, but if you have built up, you know, 20 or 25 years of seniority somewhere. It can feel really emotionally damaging and precarious to have to quote unquote step back because the the truth is.

00:08:50.700 --> 00:09:05.289 Dorie Clark: in almost all cases you're not going to be able to immediately parachute into a position of equal stature in terms of reputation or in terms of money or whatever in a totally different industry right away.

00:09:05.670 --> 00:09:33.820 Dorie Clark: But it's also equally true that you, as you know, more senior professional, have learned transferable skills. You've made connections. You've built a network that actually does allow you to rebound fairly quickly. But there's but there's usually that moment where you have to sort of feel like you're taking a step back. And that's the part that I think is so challenging for most people is kind of dealing with that interstitial period of of, you know, feeling like a schlub.

00:09:34.010 --> 00:09:39.340 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, you know. I wonder what you think about this? So

00:09:39.400 --> 00:09:55.439 Mira Brancu: as you're talking, I think about like this is an identity crisis in some ways. Right? And okay, yes, this season, we're talking about leadership, identity development. But it is, you know, when I think about my own career

00:09:55.820 --> 00:10:02.430 Mira Brancu: and a couple of pivotal moments where I made a decision to you know, reinvent myself.

00:10:02.560 --> 00:10:05.520 Mira Brancu: One of those was I was on a leadership track.

00:10:05.610 --> 00:10:17.650 Mira Brancu: I was really like being supported and continuing to go and one of the next step up. Opportunities didn't work out.

00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:21.400 Mira Brancu: And I thought to myself, like, What is my next step?

00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:23.109 Mira Brancu: And I decided

00:10:23.150 --> 00:10:32.910 Mira Brancu: ultimately to go back to an individual contributor role which some people would see as like, why would she do that? That's a step back.

00:10:33.060 --> 00:10:52.309 Mira Brancu: But my professional identity has never been my identity. It's been just something I did in my profession. But I know that like this, this connection to identity is a big piece. I'm sort of just curious to to hear what your perspective is on working through, like how we see ourselves as part of this process.

00:10:52.560 --> 00:11:20.150 Dorie Clark: Yeah, you raise, you raise an incredibly important point, Mira, which is that for so many people, especially. In American society you know where the the default question is always, you know, what do you do? We we do kind of conflate our professional identity with our identity. And you know, there's there's there's kind of a just total overlap with those things for many people, which is why, of course, as you know. The statistics are so

00:11:20.470 --> 00:11:42.410 Dorie Clark: damning and alarming. When it comes to the health outcomes of retirees that you know. Oftentimes, you know, basically within 5 min of someone retiring. If their life has been their job and they suddenly don't have their job anymore. They get sick, they get depressed and things go downhill really rapidly. So

00:11:42.760 --> 00:12:09.780 Dorie Clark: obviously, that's an outcome that we want to to try to avoid. So it it is useful and important to try to, you know. Think how well, how can we broaden this? Because it's inevitable, you know, over the course of a lifetime or a professional career. You're gonna have some kind of a setback, I mean, maybe maybe you get fired. Maybe there's layoffs at your company. Maybe you don't get the promotion you're counting on, you know, whatever it is. It would be

00:12:10.050 --> 00:12:27.499 Dorie Clark: the vast vast exception if literally every phase of your career was totally smooth sailing. And so, as a result, we need to be thoughtful about cultivating other pieces of ourselves in our lives. In my latest book, the long game. I talk about Google's 20% time

00:12:27.770 --> 00:12:53.619 Dorie Clark: concept where they encourage their employees sort of expand in new areas. And that's something that I think that all of us, you know whether our employers officially encourage that or not. I think we need to kind of do that for ourselves, you know, asking ourselves in the context of our overall life, what's the 20% or 10 or 5, or whatever it is that we are cultivating? That is for our development, for our interest. So that we're not just mono dimensional.

00:12:54.420 --> 00:13:00.369 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And there the other piece that I'm picking up on here is

00:13:00.530 --> 00:13:04.329 Mira Brancu: not just what we do as part of our identity.

00:13:04.420 --> 00:13:07.079 Mira Brancu: but what we're told we can't do.

00:13:07.140 --> 00:13:24.519 Mira Brancu: And your book outlines a lot of this really open, refreshing experiences with rejection, and I've had plenty of my own where I was like the only one who didn't get XY. And Z. Like I didn't. You know

00:13:24.690 --> 00:13:28.870 Mira Brancu: every one in my graduating class got a post stock offer? I did not.

00:13:28.930 --> 00:13:37.829 Mira Brancu: but that led to amazing other opportunities. I would have never imagined had my eyes been close to it had I been upset about it, had I

00:13:37.870 --> 00:13:45.940 Mira Brancu: connected the rejection to my full identity. Instead of like this situation in time. Not right? Not being right.

00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:59.059 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah. Okay. So when we return, we'll be talking a lot more about the 20 identity piece, and how you

00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:10.179 Mira Brancu: can start this long game process of reinventing yourself. So we're nearing an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabranku and our guest, Dory Clark.

00:14:10.450 --> 00:14:20.850 Mira Brancu: We now air on Tuesdays, at 5 Pm. Eastern time. find us on Linkedin or Youtube Talkradio, Dot, Nyc. And we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.

00:16:26.660 --> 00:16:47.759 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Maya Branku, and with our guest today, Dori Clark, where we're talking about reinvention, we talked about some of the challenges that can get in the way of reinventing ourselves, and some of them being related to how we see ourselves in terms of our identity, how we define that

00:16:47.950 --> 00:16:56.900 Mira Brancu: now, I'm kind of wondering what have you found to be most important for people to think about and do in order to address these kind of challenges?

00:16:58.330 --> 00:17:27.800 Dorie Clark: Yeah. So when it comes to challenges around identity something that bears mentioning Mira. And I'm sure you've probably seen this and and talked about this as well is our relationship. You know, while we're in the process of reinventing with our family and friends, because this this is kind of the tricky part right? Because if I meet a stranger, and I tell them, oh, II do ex. I'm a coach. I'm a garden design consultant. I'm a filmmaker.

00:17:28.020 --> 00:17:35.619 Dorie Clark: you know. They're just gonna be like, oh, okay, cool, nice to meet you. They're they're not gonna interrogate that they're just gonna accept it as a fact.

00:17:35.620 --> 00:18:00.620 Dorie Clark: But if you try to express that new identity with somebody that has known you before and has known you for a while. They often feel highly empowered to say, What are you thinking? Why are you doing that, you? What do you know about that? And it can be really upsetting if you're not prepared for it, because we often intuitively expect the people closest to us

00:18:00.620 --> 00:18:19.769 Dorie Clark: to be our biggest champions, and often the truth is, they can kind of, you know, unless you are really thoughtful about prepping them. They can sometimes be our biggest critics, because they think that they are, you know, somehow saving us from making a terrible mistake, that clearly we've not thought through. So that can be a tough dynamic

00:18:20.320 --> 00:18:28.680 Mira Brancu: totally. Totally. I am remembering both when I switched from a math major to psychology.

00:18:29.110 --> 00:18:30.530 Mira Brancu: and

00:18:30.610 --> 00:18:37.530 Mira Brancu: that is not a normal thing. By the way, for a Romanian in person to be thinking about doing psychology.

00:18:37.570 --> 00:18:38.800 Mira Brancu: and

00:18:38.870 --> 00:18:50.570 Mira Brancu:  that was hard to just share that. That's what I was doing with with my parents, because I was worried that they would

00:18:50.620 --> 00:19:06.260 Mira Brancu:  think I had no no future in this right. And then and then, later on, when I told them I was switching from clinical psychology to organizational psychology which makes no sense to most people in my family. They're like, what is that? I don't understand.

00:19:06.350 --> 00:19:09.830 Mira Brancu: you know, and I think it just comes from

00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:19.129 Mira Brancu: like you said of fear and anxiety. That What if it doesn't work out, and a desire to protect you from failure?

00:19:19.150 --> 00:19:33.179 Mira Brancu: When in fact, it might be nice if it was like oh, you you can do this, you know, and there are plenty of friends and family that that do that as well, but some just are really protective of.

00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:44.659 Mira Brancu: you know of us, and it's helpful for us to just think about it that way that that it's coming from a good place usually, that they're just worried that we won't succeed, but not to sort of like.

00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:45.979 Mira Brancu: take it in.

00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:52.819 Dorie Clark: Yeah, it's it is. It is important to to hold both of those things simultaneously.

00:19:52.870 --> 00:19:55.620 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely so.

00:19:55.990 --> 00:20:05.599 Mira Brancu: what else have you found to be? Really important?  as like as as people are preparing to enter this like

00:20:06.710 --> 00:20:14.170 Mira Brancu: idea, generation machination around like my next steps. What does that first preparation phase look like?

00:20:15.090 --> 00:20:44.649 Dorie Clark: Yeah. Well, I mean, the honest truth is that oftentimes the very first phase, the preparation phase, is just one of dissatisfaction. That's kind of the starting point. Right is, you know, most most people don't feel I mean, some people are forced to reinvent right? I mean for me, I was laid off from my job as a journalist. So it's like, Okay, better better find something else. But for those who are undertaking reinvention voluntarily. Usually it is because the thing they were doing is not doing it for them.

00:20:44.650 --> 00:20:48.550 Dorie Clark: and so they they might not necessarily even know

00:20:48.550 --> 00:21:03.539 Dorie Clark: what they're seeking. But they know what they're not seeking, and it's usually the thing they've been doing. So there's kind of this amorphous period where it can feel hard to articulate because it's not. It's not too like

00:21:03.540 --> 00:21:30.839 Dorie Clark: it. It doesn't look that put together, I think, ma, you know, maybe many people feel to be like I'm just not happy. And then people are like, but what do you want? And you're like, I don't know, like you kind of feel a little bit like a loser if you don't have a very clear thing to articulate. But I think it's also important to recognize that sometimes you just don't know. There's like this liminal period, and we have to be kind to ourselves in it, because it actually is a little bit dangerous and counterproductive

00:21:31.150 --> 00:21:41.649 Dorie Clark: to try to leap too quickly into. Oh, gosh! I'm not happy. So therefore I should do. XYZ. Because if you haven't properly vetted whatever that is.

00:21:41.750 --> 00:22:09.849 Dorie Clark: you're just as likely to sort of race headlong into another thing you don't want. So it actually pays to be thoughtful in the investigation process about, you know, taking the time to have a million informational interviews and coffees with people. And what's your job really like. And what do you spend your day doing? And you know, reading biographies or memoirs of people who are doing the job that you want? Or you know all those kinds of exploratory things

00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:20.069 Mira Brancu: absolutely. And so some coaches call this the messy middle, right it the messy middle. Is that transition time

00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:22.279 Mira Brancu: from the end of something

00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:27.529 Mira Brancu: to the beginning of something else. And during that messy middle it feels like

00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:30.420 Mira Brancu: you're lost all over the place.

00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:39.729 Mira Brancu: It feels like you're going nowhere, when in fact, you are going somewhere. You're just not quite sure you haven't clarified it for yourself. Right? So

00:22:40.350 --> 00:22:52.190 Mira Brancu: this makes me think about your own book. Journey. We've been talking about reinvention for a little bit. That was one of your first books. Right? The long game

00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.640 Mira Brancu: is your most recent book. and

00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:02.800 Mira Brancu: I am wondering how you see the long game applying to this messy middle

00:23:02.820 --> 00:23:06.950 Mira Brancu: and not getting lost in or stuck in the messy middle.

00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:24.440 Dorie Clark: Yeah, that's a great question. Obviously, I'm I'm always glad to talk about my book, but just a quick question for you, Mira, beforehand. Talk to me about your your shift. You know. Let's let's say, to pick one of them from clinical psychology to organizational psychology. How how did that pass?

00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:41.629 Mira Brancu: How did that arise for you? How did you sort of realize, like, oh, not this, but that. Yeah, it's a great question. I think all along I wasn't your typical clinical psychologist, in fact, in graduate school. My advisor even said

00:23:41.630 --> 00:23:58.329 Mira Brancu: I don't think clinical psychology is what you want to do, and I'm feeling like a administrative vibe here. I'm like, I don't know what talking about. And I decided, why did he or she say that to you. I think I was leaning into

00:23:58.520 --> 00:24:01.530 Mira Brancu: supporting his lab in very different ways.

00:24:01.550 --> 00:24:14.170 Mira Brancu: like, I was curious about taking the lead on certain things. And I was thinking in systems, level ways. And I was thinking in operational ways, you know,

00:24:14.580 --> 00:24:22.570 Mira Brancu: And the same thing happened immediately in my first job out after I finished my degree is, yes, I was doing the

00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:29.149 Mira Brancu: job of a clinical psychologist on a research study. But I was spending a lot of time saying.

00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:43.679 Mira Brancu: Can I just create a standard operating procedure for this so that we can get a better workflow and so that the team can work better. And can we create, like some ways to resolve conflicts among team members around this? And eventually, I mean that led

00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:48.349 Mira Brancu: right into management of leadership positions. And what I didn't realize

00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:51.320 Mira Brancu: until probably

00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:52.980 Mira Brancu: 8 years in

00:24:53.160 --> 00:25:13.630 Mira Brancu: is that I had informally res specialized myself into a team at organizational development psychologists because I loved the process of developing myself and others as leaders and developing the team and focusing on organizational stuff. I just didn't realize that was like the label the thing that I was doing.

00:25:14.330 --> 00:25:18.729 Mira Brancu: That's very interesting. Cool? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

00:25:18.850 --> 00:25:23.370 Mira Brancu: And then at at some point.

00:25:23.410 --> 00:25:34.270 Mira Brancu:  I was wondering what's next. You know, I feel I felt like I was just checking all the boxes, and I wasn't really being challenged as much.

00:25:34.370 --> 00:25:40.920 Mira Brancu:  And I asked myself. What are all the things that I do? Well.

00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:48.429 Mira Brancu: then, out of those? What do I see enjoying out of the things that I do? Well

00:25:48.610 --> 00:26:02.239 Mira Brancu: and out of those. What are the things that people actually pay other people to do? Worthy questions? Yes. By the way, we see a cat in your background. It's this. Ha, ha! Yes, this is Philip.

00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:29.829 Dorie Clark: Philip, has made it his mission to get extremely famous by crashing all of my zoom calls. So yeah, love it. Philip is gorgeous. Thank you. He's a very. He's a very social kitty. Oh, he might even he likes that compliment. Thank you, I know. Just keep telling him how beautiful he is, and soon he'll be right here.

00:26:32.280 --> 00:26:36.690 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So it was a long game for me as well. It was

00:26:36.910 --> 00:26:47.320 Mira Brancu: a tenure process of realising kind of where I was going, and taking a step back and thinking about what that was, in order to inform

00:26:47.470 --> 00:26:49.810 Mira Brancu: my next step.

00:26:49.930 --> 00:26:51.700 Mira Brancu: And the final piece

00:26:51.890 --> 00:26:59.319 Mira Brancu: that help me sort of like get over the hump of. Now I know what my next step is. How will other people know what I do

00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:06.100 Mira Brancu: is something, I think, similar to some of the ways that you have handled. This is

00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:29.890 Mira Brancu: I looked for the largest national platform I could to start talking about things I was interested in and pitched to all kinds of places and ended up in psychology today. As a blog series contributor, focused on women's leadership. And that was how I got known for my new interest.

00:27:30.300 --> 00:27:55.779 Dorie Clark: Yeah, that's that's fantastic. And and you raise an important point, which is that one of the things that people sometimes forget about when they think about reinvention or transition. You know, they focus rightly, of course, on like doing the thing making the transition. But we have to recognize that's kind of only half the battle, because the second part that's really important is like making sure. Other people know you've done the thing and getting known for that new thing

00:27:55.780 --> 00:28:02.519 Mira Brancu: right? Right? So how? How do people make sure that other people know what cause a lot of people

00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:06.060 Mira Brancu: don't realize that nobody is like

00:28:06.280 --> 00:28:09.579 Mira Brancu: watching them every minute of the day

00:28:09.590 --> 00:28:33.649 Dorie Clark: figuring out what they do? Right? Yeah, I mean, we we in our heads, because, of course, it's a you know, our transition is a very big deal to us. We sort of imagine. Like, okay, you know, II told them now they know. But the truth is, it takes so many iterations, because even very well, meaning people. They're just used to thinking of you in a certain way. They're gonna you know, they're gonna forget, even if they try.

00:28:33.650 --> 00:28:58.630 Dorie Clark: And so we need to essentially keep reminding them. So that's where things like, I mean, in your case. For people who have a public platform it can be about, you know, writing articles in a magazine or something like that? On a more private level it can be. What are you sharing on your social media feed? Are you talking about your old thing? Are you talking about your new thing? Cause you? You know it's a useful opportunity to remind people when you see people in person. Are you talking about

00:28:58.630 --> 00:29:16.100 Dorie Clark: about your new thing? And and you know, reminding them so that on a consistent basis? Oh, right, she does this now? Because in politics this is saying that no one's gonna vote for you, they won't even remember your name until they hear it 7 times, and the same is true. I think of your reinvention

00:29:16.260 --> 00:29:26.959 Mira Brancu: definitely, definitely okay, we are nearing an ad break. So as a reminder, you're listening to the hard skills with me, Mirabu and our guest, Dorie Clark.

00:29:27.070 --> 00:29:36.589 Mira Brancu: We air Tuesdays, 5 Pm. Eastern find us on Linkedin or And we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.

00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:55.080 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome back to the heart skills with me, Dr. Mayor Broncu and our guest, Tori Clark. We're talking about reinventing ourselves and the long game, the strategy that it takes to get there. Because of the fact that

00:31:55.190 --> 00:31:57.030 Mira Brancu: we are

00:31:57.140 --> 00:32:07.390 Mira Brancu: a podcast and show that focuses on leadership, identity and development. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on

00:32:08.670 --> 00:32:21.700 Mira Brancu: how people who are moving into a new leadership role might think about these concepts internal to their own organization when they're like thinking about vision and communicating

00:32:21.850 --> 00:32:26.530 Mira Brancu: and they're not, maybe completely reinventing themselves.

00:32:26.590 --> 00:32:32.239 Mira Brancu: But in some ways they need to be seen differently than they've ever seen bef been seen before.

00:32:33.260 --> 00:32:47.010 Dorie Clark: Yeah, absolutely it can. It can definitely be harder in many ways when you are trying to reinvent yourself within the same organization. Because you

00:32:47.060 --> 00:32:59.299 Dorie Clark: people have a a template of you in their minds, and as as you know, Mira, and some of your listeners may know. One of the abiding

00:32:59.430 --> 00:33:23.449 Dorie Clark: elements of the human brain. Is, it's desire to be what is known as a cognitive miser. And basically that means that, like at all costs your brain wants to conserve energy and not think about things. And so if something seems stable, if something seems the same, your brain is basically gonna go on autopilot. Your brain is

00:33:23.450 --> 00:33:34.689 Dorie Clark: so busy thinking about new things or new developments that if something is kind of steady state, they're just like, Oh, yeah, okay, fine, you know. And and they they didn't never consider it again. And the problem is that

00:33:34.720 --> 00:34:00.440 Dorie Clark: for a lot of us our reputation with our friends and colleagues has gone into a steady state, and so, if you met them 5 years ago, they probably think of you the way that they thought of you 5 years ago. Meanwhile, I mean, you might have whatever gotten a doctorate you might have learned to speak a new language. You might have gotten married and had kids, you might have, you know, developed some incredible new ability.

00:34:00.780 --> 00:34:18.639 Dorie Clark: But it's not really in their brain. And even if they quote unquote, know it. That's not really how they're thinking about you. And so we have to very consciously break those patterns and interrupt those patterns so that people are thinking of you in a new way. So that means

00:34:18.699 --> 00:34:21.709 Dorie Clark: we have to be very thoughtful upstream about all right.

00:34:22.060 --> 00:34:36.879 Dorie Clark: How am I gonna get them to take notice, you know, what? What am I gonna do? Differently? How am I going to create the conditions so that they recognize these things? So maybe it's looking for opportunities so that things can really break through. Oh, you know.

00:34:36.880 --> 00:35:00.879 Dorie Clark: if I if I am a a speaker at the workshop about this, and they actually have to hear me deliver a speech about it. That's different. Okay, maybe they'll see. Oh, she's doing this now, or are there different things that you could be talking about regularly, or, you know, ways to sort of demonstrate. Maybe you even start dressing slightly differently, you know, if you're the boss now, maybe dress up a little bit more as a visual queue.

00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:06.130 Dorie Clark: There's a lot of possibilities, but I think that's that's one of the keys that we have to be mindful of.

00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.050 Mira Brancu: Yes, I'm remembering how

00:35:10.390 --> 00:35:20.159 Mira Brancu: my supervisor had to actually kick me into doing these kinds of things, you know, and and tell me when I was doing my old stuff, you know.

00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:23.850 Mira Brancu: And so he pushed me into

00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:34.440 Mira Brancu: talking on our behalf, for example, and that was extraordinarily intimidating. But it was important for people to see me in a different way. He would.

00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:38.430 Mira Brancu: ultimately say. you know, at meetings

00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.570 Mira Brancu: you sound like

00:35:41.770 --> 00:35:54.480 Mira Brancu: you're, you know, thanking everyone and appreciating everyone, and very tentative. And as if you're still being mentored by everyone in the room, you know. And you you have to sort of break that

00:35:54.500 --> 00:35:56.660 Mira Brancu: so definitely

00:35:56.990 --> 00:36:01.260 Mira Brancu: agree agree with with with that? What about like

00:36:01.460 --> 00:36:03.409 Mira Brancu: if you're moving to a different

00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:08.780 Mira Brancu: leadership role in a different organization and they don't know you.

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:12.379 Mira Brancu: obviously, in that situation, what you're combating is there?

00:36:12.490 --> 00:36:18.750 Mira Brancu:  preconceived expectations of you, whatever they've read online about you and what they think

00:36:18.940 --> 00:36:24.659 Mira Brancu: that implies in your role? What are your thoughts on that kind of transition?

00:36:24.930 --> 00:36:30.120 Dorie Clark: Yeah. So it's it's important, you know, to your point, Nira. to

00:36:30.250 --> 00:36:40.819 Dorie Clark: try our best, you know it's not. It's not always easy for us, cause we're so close to it. So this is where bringing in a friend might be helpful as well, but but as best you can, or with the help of a friend.

00:36:40.940 --> 00:37:05.290 Dorie Clark: try to essentially imagine what are what are the straw men that you're battling against right like, what? What are the things that they are worried about, or that they might assume, or whatever I mean? I'm just making things up. But like, Oh, they see, you went to an Ivy League school. So they're gonna think you're stuck up, and that you think you're better than everyone, right? And so if that's the thing, you might say, oh, okay, well, if that's

00:37:05.380 --> 00:37:31.139 Dorie Clark: you know, if that's different from everybody else, if it's gonna sort of stand out. Maybe I need to over index, you know, at least in in the you know, the first month, or whatever, on being super accessible and super friendly. Just so. There's no way that they could be getting that impression. Or, you know, whatever whatever the thing is, as long as you're aware of what they might be thinking. Then you can just make a little bit of an extra push to try to neutralize that thing.

00:37:31.330 --> 00:37:34.220 Mira Brancu: That's a great strategy. Great.

00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:44.520 Mira Brancu: Okay, let's go back to thinking now, the long game. Those are like tiny strategies. Right? Big picture, long game. You talk about career waves.

00:37:44.580 --> 00:37:46.850 Mira Brancu: What are, what are these things about?

00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:56.039 Dorie Clark: Yeah. So so in the long game? Ii do talk about the concept of of career waves. As you mentioned, basically, what I mean by that is that

00:37:56.510 --> 00:38:20.270 Dorie Clark: a challenge, a a sort of potential rut that we can fall into as humans? Understandably, is that if you are doing a thing that is getting you results. If you're doing a thing that is working, quote unquote people tend to keep doing it for a very long time, if not forever, and you know that makes sense as far as it goes. But

00:38:20.970 --> 00:38:25.550 Dorie Clark: it does become problematic. And I think we need to be aware that

00:38:26.080 --> 00:38:43.420 Dorie Clark: we we are cyclical creatures we are, we are not machines. A machine can do the same thing forever, and it's great cause that it just can keep rocking it. But for humans, you know, our whole lives are rhythms. You know. We're on circadian rhythms. Every day we need to sleep. Our

00:38:43.850 --> 00:38:56.789 Dorie Clark: our digestion. Our energy is on rhythms, and the truth is, our career arc is on rhythms as well. And so, for instance, we we tend to just get caught in the trap of

00:38:56.790 --> 00:39:20.259 Dorie Clark: doing the thing, either that we like a lot when we just do that or doing the thing that we're good at, and we do that a lot. But ultimately you need to recognize that at a certain point you kinda need to work on your weaknesses as much as you need to work on your strengths. Otherwise eventually, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually a crack in the armor is going to form, and the world is gonna move on.

00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:29.920 Dorie Clark: So I talk about 4 key waves. The first one II call the learning wave, of course, because you start in a job, you start in an industry, all you can and should be doing right away

00:39:30.150 --> 00:39:36.010 Dorie Clark: is just taking in information and learning, you know. And okay, great. Here's here's who.

00:39:36.080 --> 00:40:00.619 Dorie Clark: too. Here's how this place works. So that's great. But eventually you need to stop doing that. I mean, you know, okay, fine. You never officially stop learning. But you need to, just, you know, go out of sponge mode and begin to realize, you know. Okay, I gotta earn my keep around here. I need to start sharing and creating, and that is, once you get the lay of the land, you need to start sharing your ideas, you need to make it a proactive contribution, so that people see

00:40:00.620 --> 00:40:09.830 Dorie Clark: why you're there. You also, at a certain point, need to shift into connecting mode where you're building relationships, and you're sort of embedding yourself in that organization.

00:40:09.830 --> 00:40:22.109 Dorie Clark: And then finally, you get to what I call reaping mode, which is where? Oh, great! Every, you know all, all cylinders are on. Go. You're extremely comfortable there. Everybody knows you. You're you're rocking it. But

00:40:22.390 --> 00:40:26.910 Dorie Clark: if you just keep milking things, if you just keep sort of extracting.

00:40:27.180 --> 00:40:40.770 Dorie Clark: It's not going to go well forever. You need at a certain point to disrupt yourself and go back into learning mode, because you can't keep doing things the same way forever, or it gets ossified and eventually you get displaced.

00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:42.750 Mira Brancu: Yeah.

00:40:44.020 --> 00:40:52.860 Mira Brancu: II like your point about getting the fear, the the worry about getting displaced. Because you're not learning and growing and developing and changing along with

00:40:52.900 --> 00:40:57.880 Mira Brancu: the rest of the world. And sometimes I do see people

00:40:57.930 --> 00:41:02.690 Mira Brancu: getting complacent in where they are. And

00:41:02.870 --> 00:41:08.910 Mira Brancu: you know, that can be okay for a while, depending on your life circumstance. But

00:41:09.550 --> 00:41:22.059 Mira Brancu: they will find themselves at some point feeling like they've they've been left behind in some way. Or they've lost out, or just don't feel that kind of

00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:23.649 Mira Brancu: depth of

00:41:23.670 --> 00:41:37.160 Mira Brancu: life, satisfaction and career satisfaction that you could have the potential to feel if you're sort of constantly thinking about iterating. And wh, you know, what am I sort of learning and growing into next?

00:41:38.210 --> 00:41:39.150 Dorie Clark: Totally.

00:41:40.670 --> 00:41:42.010 Mira Brancu: So

00:41:43.150 --> 00:41:45.619 Mira Brancu: career waves is one thing that like, I really

00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:49.789 Mira Brancu: sort of resonated with as a concept. The other one was

00:41:49.930 --> 00:41:52.630 Mira Brancu: strategic patience.

00:41:52.810 --> 00:42:05.119 Mira Brancu: And I'm just gonna I'm gonna read one piece of it because I just I don't know why I like this so much in your book, but I'm gonna read it. If it were easy to be patient.

00:42:05.300 --> 00:42:08.010 Mira Brancu: been easy to do the work, then every one would do it.

00:42:08.110 --> 00:42:20.570 Mira Brancu: What I've come to love about patience is that ultimately it's the truest test of merit. Are you willing to do the work, despite no guaranteed outcome. And I thought,

00:42:20.900 --> 00:42:32.550 Mira Brancu: that's that's tough for some people to not have any guarantee to put in all the work. no guarantee of success. I'm really curious to hear more about this.

00:42:33.410 --> 00:42:57.890 Dorie Clark: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's true that I guess there's a certain percentage of people that even if something were guaranteed, if it was, gonna take a while they they still wouldn't do it, because they're so impatient. Th, those are probably some some pretty hardcore extreme hedonists out there. But for for most people, yeah, I mean, II feel pretty confident that

00:42:57.890 --> 00:43:09.710 Dorie Clark: if if you said to someone. All right, you know, it's gonna take a while, but you're guaranteed to succeed by doing it. Then, you know, I think most people will be like, okay, okay, I can do it. But

00:43:09.710 --> 00:43:10.609 Dorie Clark: you know.

00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:14.860 Dorie Clark: we have to recognize I am a big fan of

00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:25.689 Dorie Clark: embracing reality and the reality of everything in life. I mean, you know, I'm sorry, like somebody. Somebody says I'm gonna marry you. It's forever

00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:49.059 Dorie Clark: oh, really, okay, I mean, let's hope that's the case. But it actually, for a variety of reasons, some in your control and some out of your control, that that is not something that you can be guaranteed and similar for anything in your career, anything in this world. And so if we're really gonna be honest with ourselves, we have to say.

00:43:49.310 --> 00:44:15.909 Dorie Clark: does it matter to you enough, anyway. Does it matter to you enough to say alright, all I can do is roll the dice, and and hope that that, I get where I'm gonna go. You know I'm I'm making the best strategic bet that I can. You know you're not foolishly rolling the dice. But but you are taking a calculated risk that your time and your effort is worth it. For this outcome. I have to have

00:44:15.910 --> 00:44:34.379 Dorie Clark: respect for those people because it's not always gonna work out. But when it does, I really do feel it's it's richly deserved, because they've taken not just a time, risk or an energy risk. They've taken an existential risk and said, Alright, let's let's stare it down. It might not work. But I'm gonna do it, anyway.

00:44:34.740 --> 00:44:36.550 Mira Brancu: Oh, love, it!

00:44:36.580 --> 00:44:39.580 Mira Brancu: Does it matter to you enough, anyway?

00:44:40.060 --> 00:44:53.340 Mira Brancu: That's a great message, and that is how we're going to go into our next ad break for people to mull that one over. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Dory Clark. We'll be right back in just a moment.

00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:18.809 Mira Brancu: Welcome! Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Mirabu and our guest, Dory Clark, behind the scenes for any of you who are watching right now. All we've been talking about is everyone's cats. Our engineer is talking about his cat, peanut butter, the flabby, Tabby, having way. Too much fun in the background here.

00:47:20.330 --> 00:47:22.829 Mira Brancu: all right where we left off.

00:47:23.110 --> 00:47:29.880 Mira Brancu: which I just really love. Here is if you're thinking strategically and long term.

00:47:30.200 --> 00:47:35.490 Mira Brancu: Then you're gonna have to make some calculated decisions, some some calculated risks

00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:43.059 Mira Brancu: to decide is the effort worth it? And if it's worth it, it's about. Does it matter to you, anyway?

00:47:43.380 --> 00:47:46.390 Mira Brancu: Are you willing to do it just because it matters to you?

00:47:46.420 --> 00:47:52.129 Mira Brancu: And I really like that message? One of the the things that it got me

00:47:52.450 --> 00:48:10.299 Mira Brancu: thinking about is how sometimes I will say that being an entrepreneur is an exercise of being patiently impatient, or may. Maybe it's impatiently patient. I'm not sure which one but this I think about that like you're you're constantly feeling like

00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:22.420 Mira Brancu: a bit on edge that you're not moving fast enough, and you have all of these big dreams, and you want to get to that end stage. But you know some of the stuff takes 10 years to achieve

00:48:22.600 --> 00:48:32.139 Mira Brancu: right? And and that's not just, you know, that's being realistic, which which is what we were talking about being real realistic about

00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:39.180 Mira Brancu: how much time change takes it also reminds me of a project that I was

00:48:39.540 --> 00:48:44.710 Mira Brancu: working with a group of people on where they were creating action plans.

00:48:44.730 --> 00:48:48.279 Mira Brancu: and they're working in a large complex system.

00:48:48.570 --> 00:48:54.520 Mira Brancu: And when I was listening to their ideas, I said, I love this idea. This is a 3 year goal.

00:48:54.700 --> 00:48:58.309 Mira Brancu: This is a 10. This is culture change. This is 10 to 20 years.

00:48:58.610 --> 00:49:05.980 Mira Brancu: Right? How can you think about this as like the first 6 months. What will it take in this first 6 months?

00:49:06.210 --> 00:49:10.939 Mira Brancu: And then, if if you achieve that, then what will it lead to? I don't want to overwhelm people.

00:49:11.040 --> 00:49:15.940 Mira Brancu: but I do want to right size the the goal so that they don't feel

00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:21.019 Mira Brancu: frustrated that they aren't meeting it as if they can't.

00:49:22.250 --> 00:49:23.909 Dorie Clark: Yeah, that's an important point.

00:49:24.590 --> 00:49:26.969 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So

00:49:27.590 --> 00:49:31.269 Mira Brancu: what's one thing, Dorie. that you would like to

00:49:31.510 --> 00:49:34.730 Mira Brancu: have people take away from from today about our talk.

00:49:35.500 --> 00:49:42.070 Dorie Clark: Yeah, Mira, thank you that we've covered so much great ground here. And I think it is an important

00:49:42.310 --> 00:49:45.610 Dorie Clark: topic or question for people.

00:49:46.140 --> 00:49:54.369 Dorie Clark: you know, a colleague of mine, named Bruce Filer, wrote a great book recently talking about career shifts, and

00:49:54.370 --> 00:50:17.449 Dorie Clark: one of the pieces of research that he had is that for for most people. There's what he calls a work quake, you know, some kind of professional disruption of whatever form. Every every 3 to 5 years it. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, an apocalyptic one. But it it could be something fairly substantial that impacts you, you know. Maybe you do change

00:50:17.450 --> 00:50:27.900 Dorie Clark: jobs or careers, you get promoted, or you get a new boss, and maybe you used to get along with your old boss really? Well, and you don't get along with your new boss, or whatever it is, but

00:50:28.120 --> 00:50:32.719 Dorie Clark: it's never really a a static set of affairs. And so I think.

00:50:33.100 --> 00:50:56.119 Dorie Clark: understanding that we need to to just try to hold things lightly. It's hard to hold things lightly when it's your life and when it's your career. But ultimately, change happens a lot. And we began the conversation by talking about lowercase, our reinvention and capital R reinvention where lowercase R reinvention comes in handy

00:50:56.120 --> 00:51:14.380 Dorie Clark: is just finding ways on an ongoing basis to keep yourself fresh, to keep yourself at sort of the edge of your abilities, learning new things, never, never sort of saying, Oh, now I'm set. Now I'm done. Now I can sort of sit back but but to recognize you know what

00:51:14.540 --> 00:51:36.769 Dorie Clark: we need to make it a habit to read the book about the new emerging trend, or to make the effort to invite the person for coffee, so that your network. Your professional network doesn't stagnate. If we can make those small things have it, then it means that whenever there is a disruption it's a heck of a lot less of a disruption that it would have been otherwise.

00:51:37.750 --> 00:51:48.890 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. And I've already named a number of things that I took away from it. But positive miser is a new one for me. So I'm gonna I'm gonna hold on to that one.

00:51:48.930 --> 00:51:56.269 Mira Brancu: Where can people find you? And while you are sharing this. I'm actually gonna share my screen. Oh.

00:51:56.280 --> 00:52:03.200 Mira Brancu: looks like I can't share today. So I'm gonna have to read out. If you go to one of my favorites.

00:52:03.490 --> 00:52:09.600 Mira Brancu: Oh, now I can share it. Okay, go ahead. Where can people find you? And I'm gonna show people while they're watching

00:52:09.600 --> 00:52:33.619 Dorie Clark: and listening here a couple of my favorites for you. Oh, amazing! Thank you, Mira. I appreciate it. Yeah, people can find me. My website is And if they're interested in reinvention in particular, if they go to slash reinvent, they can download the free reinventing you self assessment to help you think through questions of reinvention in your own life.

00:52:34.070 --> 00:52:35.330 Mira Brancu: Hmm.

00:52:36.540 --> 00:52:40.210 Mira Brancu: re, in vent, yeah, that should work

00:52:40.530 --> 00:52:45.540 Dorie Clark: there it is. Build the career that you want.

00:52:46.020 --> 00:52:54.270 Mira Brancu: Awesome. Thank you for sharing all of these great resources and tools for for people.

00:52:55.830 --> 00:52:56.820 Mira Brancu: audience.

00:52:57.540 --> 00:53:07.040 Mira Brancu: what did you take away from today? And importantly, what is one small step. one little change that you can implement

00:53:07.090 --> 00:53:15.500 Mira Brancu: this week. based on what Dory shared. Share it with us on Linkedin. at Mira Broncu or Dorie Clark

00:53:15.580 --> 00:53:21.650 Mira Brancu: or Talkradio and Mit, so we can cheer you on. We're also on Facebook.

00:53:21.720 --> 00:53:22.910 Mira Brancu: Instagram.

00:53:23.010 --> 00:53:25.040 Mira Brancu: Twitter Twitch

00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:33.129 Mira Brancu: all over the place. But I happen to live on Linkedin, which is why I keep saying Linkedin, okay, in addition to

00:53:33.230 --> 00:53:43.969 Mira Brancu: the live show, we're on itunes and spotify. So please subscribe. Leave a review share with others to help us increase our visibility, reach and impact.

00:53:44.600 --> 00:53:51.369 Mira Brancu: So in this episode, we discuss one of many aspects of developing a nuanced hard skills needed

00:53:51.930 --> 00:54:06.200 Mira Brancu: become an exceptional leader who can drive significant systemic change and make real impact. If you would like to explore how we can help you with leadership and team development services. You can also go to go Towerscopecom.

00:54:07.100 --> 00:54:20.070 Mira Brancu: and you can also learn about our towerscope Leadership Academy. Full membership starts early 2024. So be sure to subscribe to our newsletter to hear more about it when the application process opens up.

00:54:20.470 --> 00:54:32.080 Mira Brancu: and thank you again to talkradio dot Nyc. For hosting. I'm Dr. Mira Baranku, the host of the Hard Skill show. Thank you for joining us today with Dorie Clark.

00:54:32.240 --> 00:54:39.910 Mira Brancu: Have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from and don't forget. Does it matter to you enough.

00:54:40.100 --> 00:54:46.310 Mira Brancu: anyway? Don't be a cognitive miser. Google, 20%

00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:56.590 Mira Brancu: messy middle. These are all things to think about when you're thinking about where you are in your process and where you're heading.

00:54:56.990 --> 00:55:04.350 Mira Brancu: And if you need more help, I'm going to share these websites again. I'm going to share my screen also for those who are watching.

00:55:05.890 --> 00:55:07.449 Mira Brancu: You can go to

00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:12.280 Mira Brancu: Dory backslash reinvent

00:55:12.820 --> 00:55:14.120 Mira Brancu: to get yourself

00:55:14.150 --> 00:55:18.749 Mira Brancu: some free access to resources about reinventing yourself.

00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.770 Mira Brancu: you can check out her courses.

00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.329 Mira Brancu: This is the recognized expert one that I'm a part of

00:55:25.490 --> 00:55:28.619 Mira Brancu: which is great. You can even get

00:55:28.900 --> 00:55:34.590 Mira Brancu: a recognize expert backslash toolkit

00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:38.360 Mira Brancu: to build the career you want and get your knowledge recognized

00:55:38.550 --> 00:55:42.189 Mira Brancu: any parting words besides that door.

00:55:43.630 --> 00:55:49.650 Dorie Clark: Mira. Thank you so much. It's wonderful to be on the show, and I would I would just say

00:55:49.910 --> 00:56:13.990 Dorie Clark: one comment, 1 one hope for people that I talk about in my book, the long game. It's about optimizing for interesting. We all get a little confused sometimes when it comes to finding you know what is our passion in life, or what should we be doing? It's a very high bar, and what I like to say is, let's lower it. Let's make it a little easier for ourselves.

00:56:13.990 --> 00:56:24.199 Dorie Clark: And instead, let's ask the question, what do you find interesting? And how can you do more of it in your life. That's a question that we all, I think, know the answer to, and it can lead us to good places.

00:56:24.550 --> 00:56:28.719 Mira Brancu: I like ending on that because I have found myself.

00:56:28.910 --> 00:56:50.670 Mira Brancu: that when I just dial up the time I spend on things that energize me and dial down the time I spend on things that de energize me whenever I can. I don't always have that opportunity, but when I can, and I just follow where my feet go, I don't make an assessment about it. I don't make a judgment. I don't ask too many questions. I just follow where my feet are going.

00:56:51.100 --> 00:56:55.470 Mira Brancu: It has made all of the difference. So we'll close on that.

00:56:55.800 --> 00:57:15.250 Mira Brancu: And, by the way, more cat pictures are happening in the background. Here we are having a blast back here with cat pictures. Okay, thank you. Again. Talk radio, dot. Nyc, and if you haven't had a chance to watch this live, you can always follow up later with the video recording or the podcast take care, everyone

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