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If you are identify as neurodivergent, queer, or a woman leader and find it challenging to walk that "narrow band of acceptable behavior" between people-pleasing, kindness, and holding others accountable, this episode is for you. Dr. Brancu gives you a sneak peek into a live coaching session with such a leader and aims to offer a way to validate the challenges, find a way to lean into your strengths, while also learning some practice tips for effective communication within such a complex context.
This is a live coaching call with a leader, Alisa Herr, who identifies as a neurodivergent and queer business owner and is looking for guidance about how to balance being an authentic, kind, supportive leader while also giving straightforward and direct feedback. We discuss the impact of gender, ADHD, autism and identity as it relates to these challenges.
Alisa Herr is the founder and CEO of Unity Web Agency, a Certified B Corp that specializes in helping nonprofits and socially-responsible businesses make their websites more inclusive, accessible, and sustainable. Driven by a deep-seated desire to foster a sense of belonging and collective purpose, Alisa has cultivated a network of like-minded collaborators and clients who share a common ethos. As a neurodivergent and queer entrepreneur, she navigates the professional world with moxie, challenging the toxic hustle culture prevalent in the creative and tech industries. Alisa's commitment to authenticity shines through in her leadership style, as she embodies the principles she champions. Alongside her work at Unity Web Agency, she co-founded Unit of Impact, a platform empowering mission-driven companies to track and report their social impacts. Alisa holds an MS in Library Science from UNC-Chapel Hill and a BS in Psychology from Appalachian State University.
#autism, #ADHD, #neurodivergent #genderbias #gendersocialization #effectivecommunication #feedback #leadershipdevelopment #leadershipcoaching #leadershipidentity
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Dr. Mira initiates the segment by presenting herself and providing an introduction to her guest, Alisa Herr. She proceeds to highlight Alisa's professional background and the key objectives she has set for herself. Alisa then delves into her career trajectory, detailing the path that led her to her current position. In the course of the conversation, Alisa shares insights into the foundation of her company, recounting the challenges she encountered during its establishment. Additionally, she addresses the complexities associated with autism, shedding light on the hurdles she faces in the context of her experiences with the condition.
Dr. Mira resumes the segment by continuing the ongoing conversation. Alisa then proceeds to elaborate on the specific obstacles she has encountered in her pursuit of her goals. Dr. Mira offers guidance and assistance to Alisa, facilitating a constructive dialogue aimed at addressing and resolving these challenges.
Dr. Mira opens the segment by addressing the inherent challenges of delivering negative feedback to individuals. She proceeds to delve into the specific professional obstacles encountered by Alisa and offers constructive suggestions to navigate through them. Alisa actively engages in the discussion by seeking guidance from Dr. Mira, asking pertinent questions related to her own professional challenges.
In the final segment of the show, Dr. Mira underscores the significance of self-care, emphasizing the importance of prioritizing one's own well-being. Alisa expounds upon her personal perspective on self-care and articulates the value of engaging in uncomfortable experiences, recognizing them as opportunities for personal growth. Dr. Mira proceeds to offer Alisa practical strategies to address some of her challenges. In response, Alisa reflects on her strengths and discusses how she can leverage them to enhance her leadership skills and capabilities.
00:00:45.910 --> 00:01:03.990 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome to the hard skills show with me, Dr. Mira Branku. I work with leaders in healthcare research stem and other technical fields who want to develop an authentic leadership identity and create a healthy, inclusive workplace environment to retain the best people
00:01:04.019 --> 00:01:06.010 Mira Brancu: doing their best work.
00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:11.420 Mira Brancu: in other words, developing the hard skills needed to make a greater impact.
00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:27.210 Mira Brancu: This is the second episode, actually, of our second season. This season, we're focusing on developing leadership identity which is the second stage of my strategic leadership pathway model.
00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:35.489 Mira Brancu: And today we're talking with Alisa Fur, who is here for a live coaching call.
00:01:35.690 --> 00:01:45.040 Mira Brancu: So you will hear her tell her leadership story, and we're going to dig into addressing one leadership challenge that I think many leaders are going to really resonate with.
00:01:45.350 --> 00:01:51.220 Mira Brancu: So listen carefully. We do value evidence-based practical solutions here. So be ready.
00:01:51.390 --> 00:01:52.860 Mira Brancu: Take notes.
00:01:52.900 --> 00:02:00.479 Mira Brancu: I always do reflect deeply, and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills muscle.
00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:17.760 Mira Brancu: Now, Elisa, her is an award winning founder, and CEO of Unity web agency, a certified B core that specializes in helping nonprofits, and socially responsible businesses make their websites more inclusive, accessible, and sustainable.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:29.890 Mira Brancu: To that end. Her company loves working with organizations that serve marginalized communities, women-owned businesses and other certified bee corporations. Among other groups.
00:02:30.330 --> 00:02:43.090 Mira Brancu: as a neurodivergent and queer entrepreneur, she navigates the professional world with Moxie challenging the toxic hustle culture prevalent in creative and tech industries.
00:02:43.650 --> 00:02:54.910 Mira Brancu: Elisa has a true commitment to authentic leadership, and you can tell that in how she embodies the principles she champions in her own business
00:02:55.650 --> 00:03:07.080 Mira Brancu: alongside her work at Unity Web Agency. She co-founded unit unity of impact, a platform empowering mission driven companies to track and report their social impacts.
00:03:07.220 --> 00:03:17.730 Mira Brancu: Alisa holds an MS. In library science from Unc. Chapel Hill and A. BS. In Psychology from Appalachian State University. Welcome, Elisa, glad to have you on the show.
00:03:21.610 --> 00:03:30.269 Mira Brancu: Thank you absolutely. Now, as a reminder, folks, this is a live coaching session.
00:03:30.510 --> 00:03:41.779 Mira Brancu: So instead of my typical interview, I'll be focused more on supporting Lisa in her stated goal of balancing 2 important aspects of being a business owner, number one
00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:53.140 Mira Brancu: being the kind of leader who is kind and well liked, and also number 2 being the kind of leader who is seen as confident and can deliver critical, direct feedback when it's needed.
00:03:53.250 --> 00:03:57.669 Mira Brancu: Elisa, does that sound right for what we discussed focusing on any tweaks you have to this.
00:03:58.100 --> 00:04:00.770 Alisa Herr: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
00:04:01.160 --> 00:04:18.960 Mira Brancu: Excellent. And I really what I fully appreciate about Elisa honestly. Is that she is on the show, truly embodying exactly what she hopes to see in the world, and this is something that I love as someone who has been in leadership. Roles is,
00:04:19.283 --> 00:04:37.389 Mira Brancu: you know, practice what we preach right, and she wants to help other business owners like her and through this work that you know Fo, for being on the show alone says a lot about what kind of leader she is and how she wants to show up in the world for others. Right?
00:04:37.650 --> 00:04:43.920 Mira Brancu: So very excited to have you on Alisa. Let's start with your job history.
00:04:44.210 --> 00:04:45.590 Mira Brancu: And importantly.
00:04:45.770 --> 00:04:50.440 Mira Brancu: how you started your business. What were the pivotal moments that got that got you here?
00:04:51.630 --> 00:05:02.149 Alisa Herr: Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you so much for having me on here. It like you said in my introduction. I have,
00:05:02.430 --> 00:05:12.639 Alisa Herr: master's degree in library science. That was actually one of my pivotal points and getting where I am, I actually
00:05:12.650 --> 00:05:22.529 Alisa Herr: When I was in middle school, started learning how to code. This is in the nineties. I learned HTML, my dad got me started, but it was just
00:05:22.990 --> 00:05:35.230 Alisa Herr: for me. I think that coding is a special interest of mine. And so that's why I spent the majority majority majority of my time.
00:05:35.300 --> 00:05:39.149 Alisa Herr: outside of school doing. And
00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:40.700 Alisa Herr: I
00:05:41.410 --> 00:05:55.309 Alisa Herr: thought as I was going through, you know. transitioning from school into career, thinking about what I wanted to do with my life, and seeing how my parents and other people in that generation had a lifelong
00:05:55.860 --> 00:06:07.089 Alisa Herr: job in one place, you know, finding the career ladder. And I had that idea for myself, too. And so I thought, I'll be a librarian. I love research. I love
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.400 Alisa Herr: helping people. I
00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:24.469 Alisa Herr: really love organization all of these things. And when I graduated from my master's program, it was 2,009 was the middle of the recession. Jobs were scarce.
00:06:24.570 --> 00:06:34.229 Alisa Herr: and I was born and raised in North Carolina. I didn't want to move somewhere else, just to find a job when my
00:06:34.580 --> 00:06:36.200 Alisa Herr: life was here.
00:06:36.210 --> 00:06:47.130 Alisa Herr: So I ended up looking for a job, doing anything, anything that I could and where I landed actually was doing web development
00:06:47.300 --> 00:06:56.999 Alisa Herr: and so I worked for several years as a web developer at another design agency
00:06:57.320 --> 00:07:14.250 Alisa Herr: and after about 4 and a half years I was head hunted to be the founding CTO of a nonprofit and that was an incredible opportunity really started. I think that that was like
00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:16.760 Alisa Herr: I was.
00:07:17.910 --> 00:07:24.040 Alisa Herr: I was a leader at the at the agency. I was a lead developer there.
00:07:24.290 --> 00:07:29.620 Alisa Herr: but going into a C-suite position for the first time.
00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:38.470 Alisa Herr: in my early thirties was a big jump for me. And so that was
00:07:39.430 --> 00:07:53.230 Alisa Herr: That was a really big transition for me. But after working at this nonprofit for a while, as much as I loved the work that I was doing there, and the people that I worked with. I had the itch to get back into serving a variety of clients.
00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:54.890 Alisa Herr: and
00:07:56.120 --> 00:08:00.230 Alisa Herr: was thinking about finding another agency to work for. But
00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:08.760 Alisa Herr: you mentioned the toxic hustle culture that is so prevalent, and it's something that
00:08:08.910 --> 00:08:23.909 Alisa Herr: was a huge barrier for me in deciding to join another agency. I didn't think that I would fit in my lifestyle my need for
00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:39.229 Alisa Herr: just accommodations as somebody that is autistic and has adhd and at the time I did not know this, but you know there's all the high effort that comes with masking and
00:08:39.289 --> 00:08:42.190 Alisa Herr: accommodating yourself through
00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:51.869 Alisa Herr: experiences that are just uncomfortable. And so, anyway, that's when I decided it would be easier for me to start my own company than it would be to
00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:57.080 Alisa Herr: find a job. So I started Unity Web Agency in 2016.
00:08:57.250 --> 00:09:08.169 Alisa Herr: I also knew that I did not want to be a freelancer. I wanted to build a team. So from the beginning, it was really about making a company that was bigger than myself.
00:09:09.040 --> 00:09:26.409 Mira Brancu: Yeah, you know, not everybody would agree that it would be easier to build a company, as compared to, you know, finding another job. So I guess I'm wondering what what was important to the those considerations, as you started thinking about building this company, and, as you St. You know, build the company itself.
00:09:27.070 --> 00:09:30.920 Alisa Herr: Big part of it for me.
00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:47.100 Alisa Herr: As I mentioned. It's just sort of my personality, the way that I fit into an office environment but also, being a woman in tech. it's really hard to be respected.
00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:54.210 Alisa Herr: because the first impression that people have when they see me is that I
00:09:54.710 --> 00:10:06.759 Alisa Herr: not experienced or I am. Maybe I'm miss, or I'm just not as talented as somebody that looks different for me, and it just
00:10:07.350 --> 00:10:12.890 Alisa Herr: It's straining to feel like that for so long. And
00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:17.780 Alisa Herr: I the thought. The thought of going through interviews was just
00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:28.460 Alisa Herr: so daunting. After after having interviewed for months and months and months after getting my master's degree and not getting a job it was.
00:10:28.710 --> 00:10:30.879 Alisa Herr: I was afraid to go back into that again.
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:38.410 Alisa Herr: Yeah. But I knew that if I started my own company that I wouldn't have to do those things.
00:10:38.510 --> 00:10:41.029 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So I hear,
00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:46.180 Mira Brancu: some of the things that were draining were around managing
00:10:46.780 --> 00:10:48.609 Mira Brancu: biases.
00:10:49.100 --> 00:11:08.099 Mira Brancu: And you know, impression management around being a young woman in tech. So there's ageism and sexism. There's how people perceive young women in tech as not as experienced, not as talented, and constantly getting up against that. The additional challenge I heard was also
00:11:08.270 --> 00:11:12.070 Mira Brancu: having to feel like you were masking
00:11:12.470 --> 00:11:24.300 Mira Brancu: you know, and the need for accommodation for Adhc and autism, even though it sounds like back then you weren't diagnosed necessarily. But you sort of have had a sense of it. Is that right?
00:11:24.490 --> 00:11:36.630 Alisa Herr: Yes, absolutely I always felt like I didn't fit in. There's always a question in the back of my mind of like, am I just not trying hard enough to
00:11:38.420 --> 00:11:45.339 Alisa Herr: fit in with these people? Or like? What's what's wrong with me like? Why am I weird.
00:11:45.520 --> 00:11:47.709 Alisa Herr: that kind of thing, and
00:11:51.900 --> 00:11:54.059 Alisa Herr: I got to as
00:11:55.100 --> 00:12:04.100 Alisa Herr: starting as as founding a company and and creating the corporate culture from the beginning. I got to define it by
00:12:04.340 --> 00:12:11.210 Alisa Herr: the core values that I said at the beginning, and the types of people that I hired and
00:12:11.280 --> 00:12:17.479 Alisa Herr: it all like being able to create a culture of inclusivity and understanding and
00:12:20.380 --> 00:12:28.339 Mira Brancu: harmony collaboration. All those things. Yeah, and just for the benefit of the audience to understand
00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:33.779 Mira Brancu: whether they're undiagnosed, and they might resonate or
00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:45.310 Mira Brancu: company leaders who may not know what this means, what is masking? What does it look like? What is the experience of people with autism when they're masking.
00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:52.470 Alisa Herr: Well, so I'm not an expert in this, only in my own experience. But
00:12:52.640 --> 00:13:00.449 Alisa Herr: masking is the word that's used to describe
00:13:01.130 --> 00:13:06.920 Alisa Herr: hiding your true self in a way to be able to
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:17.710 Alisa Herr: kind of cover up your awkwardness. So for me, it's very much like, I'll study how people interact and the
00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:30.970 Alisa Herr: phrases that they'll use and at what times do they do what things. And so then I'm I'm making a schedule in my own head. And then the script and everything like that. And so it's not coming naturally to me to do that.
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:35.090 Alisa Herr: So I have to work extra hard to
00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:41.859 Alisa Herr: appear as if I'm just as normal. Quote unquote, normal as everybody else.
00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:46.270 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of stereotypical ways.
00:13:46.490 --> 00:13:48.180 Mira Brancu: That
00:13:48.390 --> 00:14:02.649 Mira Brancu: we learn to be socialized and how to interact in in a work culture environment. And we don't really realize we're socialized to act, a certain way is like what's appropriate behavior, what's not what's appropriate interaction, what's not?
00:14:02.680 --> 00:14:13.120 Mira Brancu: And When you feel like you're struggling with trying to fit into that mold. Then you're gonna feel like
00:14:13.130 --> 00:14:25.530 Mira Brancu: either. You're being inauthentic to yourself. You're you don't feel like you belong, or you have to sort of pretend which can be exhausting right? So
00:14:25.800 --> 00:14:39.510 Mira Brancu: it sounds like there was a lot about working within certain corporate environments that was really exhausting. From, you know the tech world. And you know, woman in tech and the the masking. So
00:14:39.540 --> 00:14:52.539 Mira Brancu: we're gonna dig into a little bit of that in terms of what led you to think about, you know, coming on the show today related all to all of that. But we're gonna take a break right now, we're needering this. Add break.
00:14:52.590 --> 00:15:19.880 Mira Brancu: And just as a reminder, you are listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Alisa Hur. The hard skill now, airs on Tuesdays, at 5 pm. Eastern time. If you'd like to join us online and ask questions, you're welcome to on Linkedin when this airs. Otherwise you can see the recording also on talkradio, dot Nyc. And we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:42.099 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills you are listening to me, Dr. Mirabanku and Alisa her and we're doing a live coaching call right now. And we've been talking a lot about Alisa, how you transitioned from
00:17:42.130 --> 00:17:46.159 Mira Brancu: the work environment that felt like you were
00:17:46.210 --> 00:18:10.119 Mira Brancu: exhausted all the time, working so hard to try to fit in, find a place of belonging you know, feel valued for what you brought, and feel authentic right? And realizing that the only way that maybe you were going to create that was to create it for yourself through a business and to create it for others that you hired? Right? So I am.
00:18:10.210 --> 00:18:13.710 Mira Brancu: curious at this point. How long have you been in your business
00:18:15.310 --> 00:18:29.300 Mira Brancu: since 2016? So a little over 7 years. 7 years. Okay? Which is actually an important mark. By the way, for a business. You know, most businesses.
00:18:29.300 --> 00:18:45.969 Mira Brancu: Have a hard time making it to the one year. Mark, then the 3 year, then the 5 year. But the 7 is like a big deal, right? So congratulations, absolutely absolutely so. You've hit a lot of milestones here just getting to the 7 year mark.
00:18:46.100 --> 00:18:47.700 Mira Brancu: But I'm wondering.
00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:52.640 Mira Brancu: what do you see? As the current challenges. Now, related to your goal.
00:18:53.620 --> 00:18:56.039 Alisa Herr: Yeah. So I mean.
00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:14.189 Alisa Herr: yeah. All along, I've struggled with interpersonal communication. Like, I said, I study how people say things. But then I have a really hard time reflecting it back. So then I end up just being awkward. But
00:19:14.560 --> 00:19:21.040 Alisa Herr: I really struggle with finding the right words and a big challenge for me. that
00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:29.260 Alisa Herr: I've been dealing with all along, but has been coming to a head recently with
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:40.029 Alisa Herr: managing a bunch of people and working with a variety of personalities both on my team, but also with clients and
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:41.010 Alisa Herr: it's
00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:53.530 Alisa Herr: really hard for me to give straightforward and direct feedback when I'm concerned about how that person's gonna receive it. I very sensitive and I
00:19:53.880 --> 00:20:08.599 Alisa Herr: can. You be a highly sensitive person and autistic at the same time. Or is that a spectrum, anyway? But I yeah, I I'm a people pleaser. I er on the side of being nice and agreeable. I want people to like me. But
00:20:10.180 --> 00:20:12.699 Alisa Herr: that results in me not
00:20:12.830 --> 00:20:21.939 Alisa Herr: being able to. It feels like a complete block like I know the words, I might have written it down, but as soon as it has to come out of my mouth I'm
00:20:23.210 --> 00:20:31.430 Alisa Herr: Inc. I feel incapable of actually saying the things that they need to hear, even if it's gonna hurt their feelings.
00:20:32.670 --> 00:20:38.609 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And that's there's a lot there. There's a lot there. So we're gonna like, break it down right?
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:40.120 Mira Brancu: So
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:46.489 Mira Brancu: first, there's the just finding the right words
00:20:46.820 --> 00:20:49.080 Mira Brancu: right? And
00:20:49.520 --> 00:20:57.790 Mira Brancu: finding yourself worried about other people's reactions. which if you just take that by itself.
00:20:58.910 --> 00:21:00.980 Mira Brancu: is like the most common
00:21:01.340 --> 00:21:14.779 Mira Brancu: stressful experience of most people who care about what other people think like period, like, regardless of autism. Adhd being a woman like if you just remove all of that, most people struggle with that, anyway.
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.239 Mira Brancu: So I just wanna sort of just normalize how hard it is to give feedback
00:21:19.540 --> 00:21:21.220 Mira Brancu: period if
00:21:21.790 --> 00:21:30.139 Mira Brancu: you're the kind of person that cares about other people. So now that said that, said.
00:21:30.260 --> 00:21:33.010 Mira Brancu: let's explore
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:42.969 Mira Brancu: what compounds that experience? What makes it even harder? Right? So let's start with like just different pieces of your identity. And who you are.
00:21:43.090 --> 00:21:50.020 Mira Brancu: let's take it with with gender. Are there any
00:21:50.070 --> 00:21:56.870 Mira Brancu: gendered messages that you've received in your life about how you're supposed to present as a woman that adds
00:21:57.130 --> 00:22:00.939 Mira Brancu: to this sort of stress of giving hard feedback.
00:22:01.510 --> 00:22:05.399 Alisa Herr: Yes, definitely. I mean, I was
00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:18.029 Alisa Herr: raised to be polite and deferential, and you know little girls are quiet and stay out of the way. And you know a lot of times
00:22:19.810 --> 00:22:31.100 Alisa Herr: things that I that I remember when I would bring up a difficult situation I was having with a friend. With my parents there was always the will. What do you think? How do you think they feel about it was like
00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:36.469 Alisa Herr: one of the main messages that I got from parents. Any time I was talking about.
00:22:36.850 --> 00:22:39.810 Alisa Herr: You know, I had a fight with So-and-so, and it's like, Well.
00:22:40.600 --> 00:22:42.160 Alisa Herr: how do you, Mcveigh, feel
00:22:43.270 --> 00:22:48.909 Alisa Herr: how I feel? And so it felt like yes, as as a little girl.
00:22:49.090 --> 00:22:51.639 Alisa Herr: My feelings were not as important as other people's.
00:22:51.910 --> 00:22:54.130 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And that is a big deal.
00:22:54.170 --> 00:22:58.989 Mira Brancu: Just feeling like your feelings were
00:22:59.110 --> 00:23:04.219 Mira Brancu: less important, invalidated, not considered.
00:23:04.800 --> 00:23:14.889 Mira Brancu: And how damaging that kind of feedback is when you hear it over and over and over again through a lifetime of
00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.730 Mira Brancu: personal and professional experiences. Right? How much you have to sort of
00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:21.670 Mira Brancu: tamp down
00:23:22.580 --> 00:23:24.810 Mira Brancu: about
00:23:27.040 --> 00:23:28.769 Mira Brancu: how much you share about your needs.
00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:37.470 Mira Brancu: Right? So we're going to add that piece to the already difficult piece about giving hard feedback. Right?
00:23:37.810 --> 00:23:40.030 Mira Brancu: Now, let's add.
00:23:40.600 --> 00:23:44.210 Mira Brancu: are there other pieces about
00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:50.010 Mira Brancu: having autism and or Adhd, or the combination that make this
00:23:50.030 --> 00:23:53.390 Mira Brancu: even additionally harder? That compounds
00:23:54.250 --> 00:23:55.400 Mira Brancu: the difficulty
00:23:56.610 --> 00:23:57.860 Mira Brancu: from your perspective.
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:05.700 Alisa Herr: I think so.
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:14.620 Alisa Herr: without scripting something. It's really hard for me to find the right words in the moment.
00:24:14.830 --> 00:24:24.670 Alisa Herr: and so I spend a lot of time and energy scripting things out whether it's written down or just in my head, and rehearsing it over and over and over again.
00:24:25.040 --> 00:24:33.360 Alisa Herr: so finding the right words? Yes. Is that in every situation, or is it only
00:24:33.390 --> 00:24:34.490 Mira Brancu: in these
00:24:34.630 --> 00:24:37.390 Mira Brancu: critical feedback type conversations?
00:24:40.560 --> 00:24:43.010 Alisa Herr: I would say that
00:24:44.510 --> 00:24:50.290 Alisa Herr: primarily in these critical feedback situations, but even in like times.
00:24:50.390 --> 00:24:55.440 Alisa Herr: where it would be nice to complement somebody or
00:24:56.100 --> 00:25:06.039 Alisa Herr: congratulate them on a job well done. Things like that. I just forget to do that. It's not that I'm not appreciative. But it doesn't occur to me that
00:25:07.570 --> 00:25:10.620 Alisa Herr: that would be a nice thing to do.
00:25:11.010 --> 00:25:17.120 Mira Brancu: So yeah, social niceties. Okay, so
00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:20.130 Mira Brancu: what
00:25:20.260 --> 00:25:23.750 Mira Brancu: have you done so far to
00:25:24.870 --> 00:25:26.010 Mira Brancu: manage
00:25:26.370 --> 00:25:37.650 Mira Brancu: both the social niceties, giving giving people good feedback, positive reinforcement. positive praise, as well as giving them critical feedback about performance.
00:25:37.810 --> 00:25:42.200 Mira Brancu: How have you done it so far like what do you? What do you do? And what does it look like?
00:25:44.540 --> 00:25:50.950 Alisa Herr: if it's
00:25:54.540 --> 00:25:59.679 Alisa Herr: if somebody has recently told me that it's important to them to
00:25:59.700 --> 00:26:01.040 Alisa Herr: receive praise.
00:26:01.060 --> 00:26:08.050 Alisa Herr: then it's on top of mind. I try to remember to do it. And I kind of have like a
00:26:10.010 --> 00:26:13.310 Alisa Herr: I don't know, like
00:26:14.760 --> 00:26:28.160 Alisa Herr: I put people into categories in my head, you know. It's sort of like love languages like, are they? Words of affirmation? Person? How they give people like, and then I can. I can kind of remember that
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:33.239 Alisa Herr: but in terms of the hard feedback
00:26:34.170 --> 00:26:58.980 Alisa Herr: I usually talk it out with somebody else, and then I really like the way that I heard them say something and wish I'd recorded it, but I could have transcribed and then I take frantic notes, and I spend hours crafting it to be an imperfect, perfect way that feels like a very kind way of saying something, but it's also
00:27:00.350 --> 00:27:03.230 Alisa Herr: telling them how it is. But then.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:14.319 Alisa Herr: when I actually get in the conversation. I'm not reading from the script, because then it sounds like I'm reading from a script. So I end up winging it and
00:27:14.350 --> 00:27:20.790 Alisa Herr: looking at my notes, and then stumbling and not being able to just spit it out.
00:27:21.270 --> 00:27:26.020 Alisa Herr: So I'm just. I get more awkward. People are like, oh, no, this is gonna be bad, cause she's
00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:31.080 Mira Brancu: not saying something, and they can tell them not saying something. Yeah, yeah.
00:27:31.270 --> 00:27:32.730 Mira Brancu: So
00:27:33.580 --> 00:27:39.649 Mira Brancu: let me go back to the positive praise, because there's something about that that
00:27:40.120 --> 00:27:51.689 Mira Brancu: is easier for you like once somebody tells you what their love language is. You put them in the category, and then it's it sort of comes more easily and naturally. Why do you think it?
00:27:51.710 --> 00:27:53.760 Mira Brancu: It's easier to remember
00:27:54.010 --> 00:27:57.800 Mira Brancu: that? And it comes more easily to just
00:27:58.100 --> 00:27:59.710 Mira Brancu: state something off the cuff.
00:28:02.870 --> 00:28:05.730 Alisa Herr: Well. I
00:28:06.060 --> 00:28:07.929 Alisa Herr: think one of the
00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:19.130 Alisa Herr: deep seated parts of why this is so hard, why not? Negative feedback is so hard is that I'm a people pleaser, and so I like to make people feel good, and I want them to like me. And
00:28:19.190 --> 00:28:25.140 Alisa Herr: positive feedback accomplishes those things. So it's easier.
00:28:25.350 --> 00:28:48.570 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, okay, good. So we are reaching another ad break. So we're going to take a pause there. And when we come back, we're gonna look at the hard feedback piece because this is the the hardest part about it. So as a reminder, you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest, Alisa, her
00:28:48.570 --> 00:29:00.889 Mira Brancu: the hard skills airs on Tuesdays, at 5 Pm. Eastern, we you can find us on Youtube and Linkedin and other places at talk radio, Nyc, and we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:31:01.260 --> 00:31:17.760 Mira Brancu: welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabu and our guest, Alisa, her and we are talking about how difficult it is to give hard feedback and finding the right words. And
00:31:18.340 --> 00:31:21.049 Mira Brancu: you know, for for many people.
00:31:21.340 --> 00:31:27.029 Mira Brancu: and especially if you were socialized to be a people pleaser, and many women are.
00:31:27.250 --> 00:31:30.420 Mira Brancu: it is
00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:32.410 Mira Brancu: it? It can be excruciating
00:31:32.820 --> 00:31:38.490 Mira Brancu: to give people what you consider to be negative
00:31:38.790 --> 00:31:40.819 Mira Brancu: feedback when
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:49.009 Mira Brancu: especially not just a people pleaser. But if you're just focused on supporting others. you know. And
00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:57.669 Mira Brancu: one of the things that we talked about. Alisa is not only were you sort of socialized to
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:03.649 Mira Brancu: not think about your own needs. but also think a lot
00:32:03.870 --> 00:32:10.540 Mira Brancu: about other people's needs and how to support them and how to please them. And and this is
00:32:11.060 --> 00:32:17.749 Mira Brancu: an extremely common experience. for when many women who are coming into their own
00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:20.000 Mira Brancu: probably
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.880 Mira Brancu: right at mid-career, which is exactly where you are
00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:30.800 Mira Brancu: when they're starting to realize that all of those learned messages are not serving them well.
00:32:31.510 --> 00:32:34.849 Mira Brancu: But now, what? Because you've only learned one way to do it
00:32:35.190 --> 00:32:38.419 Mira Brancu: right, and the one way that you learn to do it.
00:32:38.830 --> 00:32:45.680 Mira Brancu: was reinforced over and over as a good thing until now. And now you're like, wait! But
00:32:46.830 --> 00:33:00.120 Mira Brancu: now it's not not now, it's not serving the purpose it previously served. So how do I let go of all of that stuff. Right. so you're at a really important crux in your leadership development
00:33:00.140 --> 00:33:01.720 Mira Brancu: and
00:33:02.190 --> 00:33:07.259 Mira Brancu: and so many women are, you know, go through this, and it doesn't help
00:33:07.510 --> 00:33:21.559 Mira Brancu: that. In addition. You're you're working through. The effects of Adhd and autism. The the Adhd piece makes it hard to hold on to the information.
00:33:21.810 --> 00:33:22.960 Mira Brancu: So you're like.
00:33:22.990 --> 00:33:29.699 Mira Brancu: you know, you're writing furiously, and you're trying to remember everything, and then you're distracted by, you know.
00:33:30.070 --> 00:33:38.630 Mira Brancu: the emotion of it, which again, like it, is very normal when we're really stressed out about having to give hard feedback that
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.630 Mira Brancu: Our
00:33:41.860 --> 00:33:46.060 Mira Brancu: fight-or-flight response is overactivated. and
00:33:46.310 --> 00:33:58.479 Mira Brancu: the amygdala is like screaming, get out of here! This is a threat. This is bad. This is horrible. Whatever it is. But
00:33:58.840 --> 00:34:07.670 Mira Brancu: it it sort of over floods our ability to think straight and people with Adt already have
00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:15.039 Mira Brancu: a lot of those executive functioning challenges, meaning challenges in organizing their thoughts
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:25.900 Mira Brancu: and being really structured or clear. And so when you're really stressed out. it's really going to overwhelm the system.
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:27.739 Mira Brancu: So
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:33.179 Mira Brancu: one of the things just to keep in mind is that
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:38.709 Mira Brancu: it might take a little bit longer, and that's okay for you to organize your thoughts
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:47.659 Mira Brancu: and to say what you want to say. But in a moment that is well past your flight or flight response, like
00:34:47.670 --> 00:34:49.960 Mira Brancu: you. You have to let the
00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:51.780 Mira Brancu: emotional flood
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.510 Mira Brancu: sort of die down just a little bit. And
00:34:55.650 --> 00:35:00.299 Mira Brancu: in the beginning that could take several weeks.
00:35:00.430 --> 00:35:05.890 Mira Brancu: I'm not gonna lie. It can take several weeks. And I'm I'm sort of curious like, is that your experience?
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:09.210 Alisa Herr: That's
00:35:09.710 --> 00:35:16.469 Alisa Herr: I had never ever heard that it could take several weeks, and it makes so much sense because
00:35:17.630 --> 00:35:30.480 Alisa Herr: I think I heard 30 min, or something like that. No, no, when I heard that, but that was the number Admins. Like, if you get flooded, you need to like wait 30 min, or whatever. But my gosh! Or a day, or something like that.
00:35:30.520 --> 00:35:32.869 Alisa Herr: Weeks. Yeah, I mean, I
00:35:32.940 --> 00:35:40.119 Alisa Herr: I had a friend. I have a friend. She's still friend. We're friends. But there was something that
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:44.350 Alisa Herr: didn't feel great like an interaction we had that didn't feel great. And
00:35:45.070 --> 00:35:55.919 Alisa Herr: it took it took me a while like a at least a week to say something to her about it? Yeah. And I think it's very yeah, I think it's very normal
00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:57.219 Mira Brancu: go ahead.
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.960 Alisa Herr: II think it had to do with that,
00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:04.959 Alisa Herr: yeah, excruciating to you, said that word earlier and
00:36:05.570 --> 00:36:09.890 Alisa Herr: it's that is very distracting
00:36:09.990 --> 00:36:12.710 Alisa Herr: the emotions of it all.
00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:20.610 Alisa Herr: especially when it's that painful. And I really like that. You're using a word like that, too.
00:36:20.690 --> 00:36:23.899 Alisa Herr: validate. How painful it is.
00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:25.360 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:31.429 Mira Brancu: yes, comfortable. It's excruciating. Yes, yes, and
00:36:31.870 --> 00:36:34.460 Mira Brancu: And it really isn't that unusual
00:36:34.590 --> 00:36:39.139 Mira Brancu: for it to take several weeks to process through. Because
00:36:39.170 --> 00:36:41.129 Mira Brancu: your your
00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:51.949 Mira Brancu: your your entire like fight or flight response is over activated, and it could be agitated for quite a while, as your
00:36:52.000 --> 00:37:01.450 Mira Brancu: sort of getting gaining equilibrium again, you know, and gaining your footing. And so in the beginning, when you're practicing these skills.
00:37:01.670 --> 00:37:11.270 Mira Brancu: give it the time that you need and but don't sit with it. So it sounds like you're already really good
00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:15.189 Mira Brancu: to people and processing through
00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:20.680 Mira Brancu: like trying to get some feedback trying to get some reactions. What do you think of this?
00:37:21.640 --> 00:37:35.290 Mira Brancu: that is really helpful to get yourself out of your own head. Because if you sit with yourself you're just gonna spin. you gonna ruminate and spin and overthink and over worry.
00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:40.300 Mira Brancu: Does that sound common? For you as an experience?
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:45.280 Alisa Herr: Yeah. And I'm I'm an external processor like it's like.
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:51.909 Alisa Herr: a paradox, I guess, for me
00:37:52.050 --> 00:37:56.340 Alisa Herr: that I'm an external processor. And so it helps for me to talk stuff out.
00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:00.690 Alisa Herr: Umhm. But then I also have a hard time finding the right words.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:02.410 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah.
00:38:02.530 --> 00:38:05.000 Mira Brancu: Okay. So
00:38:05.510 --> 00:38:06.729 Mira Brancu: once I
00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:10.770 Mira Brancu: I will. Say that once you
00:38:11.950 --> 00:38:23.490 Mira Brancu: do this a lot and get better and better at it. The 2 weeks, or whatever it takes, will turn into one week. and the one week will turn into a few days.
00:38:24.350 --> 00:38:32.790 Mira Brancu: maybe some days you'll be lucky enough for it to only take a day. That's probably going to be less likely. But
00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:38.409 Mira Brancu: one of the things that you can notice about yourself when you're practicing this more and more
00:38:38.420 --> 00:38:40.520 Mira Brancu: is
00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:47.879 Mira Brancu: instead of negatively judging yourself about how long it's taking you for for you to be able to give this feedback that you want to give.
00:38:48.010 --> 00:38:50.500 Mira Brancu: Judge yourself with.
00:38:50.710 --> 00:38:52.480 Mira Brancu: How much shorter the
00:38:52.590 --> 00:38:53.770 Mira Brancu: that
00:38:54.100 --> 00:38:59.580 Mira Brancu: length of time to recover takes. because that's really the progress
00:38:59.750 --> 00:39:02.890 Mira Brancu: right there the length of time that it takes to recover
00:39:04.990 --> 00:39:10.819 Alisa Herr: amazing perspective. I have a question about
00:39:11.520 --> 00:39:15.210 Alisa Herr: about allowing for this time. when
00:39:16.110 --> 00:39:24.089 Alisa Herr: best practice. I don't know who's best practice. But I've heard, you know, it's like it's good to give timely feedback, especially when it's something that you
00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:27.070 Alisa Herr: want somebody to change about
00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:31.870 Alisa Herr: something so, or you know, how do you
00:39:31.950 --> 00:39:40.029 Alisa Herr: give timely feedback with also allowing yourself that space to be able to process so that you can
00:39:42.200 --> 00:39:43.340 Alisa Herr: say the thing.
00:39:43.490 --> 00:39:46.080 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that's a great question.
00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:54.270 Mira Brancu: and I do have an opinion on it. So since you asked my advice and opinion, I'm gonna share it.
00:39:54.420 --> 00:40:01.030 Mira Brancu: I think timely feedback is only useful if it's also
00:40:01.220 --> 00:40:14.330 Mira Brancu: worthwhile useful feedback if you give immediate feedback. But it's emotion laden. It's not helpful feedback. so there's no purpose in giving timely feedback that is not
00:40:14.630 --> 00:40:15.800 Mira Brancu: useful.
00:40:16.660 --> 00:40:19.619 Mira Brancu: I would rather you wait.
00:40:20.080 --> 00:40:26.029 Mira Brancu: you know, even several months to take in more data
00:40:26.600 --> 00:40:30.149 Mira Brancu: to identify a pattern of of problems
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:36.250 Mira Brancu: and then find a time when you're less emotionally activated
00:40:37.580 --> 00:40:46.189 Mira Brancu: to have a conversation about a pattern of behaviors instead of like one specific incident. and I find that that
00:40:46.540 --> 00:40:49.340 Mira Brancu: is sometimes more useful to people, anyway.
00:40:49.430 --> 00:40:57.439 Mira Brancu: So like, let's say, one time it happens you're just like, hmm! That's interesting. Let me just keep that in the back of my mind.
00:40:57.650 --> 00:41:06.799 Mira Brancu: And then the second time the same thing happens. Hmm! This looks like a pattern. I'm gonna just keep track of like, what's happening with this? Why, why is this happening?
00:41:06.820 --> 00:41:13.330 Mira Brancu: What is the purpose of this behavior? How do I feel about it. And then let's say that third time it happens.
00:41:13.420 --> 00:41:18.020 Mira Brancu: You have gathered enough information and thought about it. Enough
00:41:18.630 --> 00:41:20.540 Mira Brancu: that you can say like.
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:25.169 Mira Brancu: Hey, I just wanna sort of call this out because
00:41:25.290 --> 00:41:32.000 Mira Brancu: I'm finding like this has happened this and has happened a couple of times. And I'm just wondering about it.
00:41:32.070 --> 00:41:40.110 Mira Brancu: you know. So now, it's not like immediate every time, you know, kind of but but really like thoughtful
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:53.079 Mira Brancu: and again, it takes it it sort of takes some. It helps you separate from the emotion
00:41:53.170 --> 00:41:57.379 Mira Brancu: of the first situation or one situation.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:05.440 Alisa Herr: So then, a new emotion arises, which is that fear of conflict in the moment of bringing it up. Yeah.
00:42:07.170 --> 00:42:12.580 Mira Brancu: yeah, absolutely. Okay. So let's let's talk about that cause. I think that's really the bigger
00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:13.980 Mira Brancu: challenge here.
00:42:14.080 --> 00:42:24.860 Mira Brancu: Let's talk about this people. Pleasing thing. What?
00:42:25.030 --> 00:42:26.440 Mira Brancu: What do you think that's about?
00:42:29.660 --> 00:42:35.819 Alisa Herr: That one feels a little bit more tied to the the gender,
00:42:37.040 --> 00:42:45.270 Alisa Herr: training. It's not the right word. Here, I, am, but yeah, the conditioning as a little girl
00:42:45.610 --> 00:42:49.530 Alisa Herr: where it's my job to make people
00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.960 Mira Brancu: comfortable. Yes, yes, okay.
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:54.479 Mira Brancu: So
00:42:57.050 --> 00:43:01.659 Mira Brancu: It's everybody's job to help each other feel
00:43:02.230 --> 00:43:11.930 Mira Brancu: supported. Right? that's a it needs to be mutually mutually beneficial, though.
00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:16.529 Mira Brancu: like you need to feel comfortable and made comfortable as well.
00:43:18.620 --> 00:43:25.069 Mira Brancu: So what we're socialized to be is just thinking about the other person's comfort.
00:43:25.310 --> 00:43:30.420 Mira Brancu: but not really paying attention to like. Am I comfortable in this situation.
00:43:30.500 --> 00:43:34.679 Mira Brancu: and has someone made me uncomfortable? And what what does that mean?
00:43:35.210 --> 00:43:38.010 Mira Brancu: If they haven't made me uncomfortable.
00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:42.610 Mira Brancu: Right? So do I call that out
00:43:42.950 --> 00:43:46.380 Mira Brancu: or do I not? And if I do, do I create a conflict or not?
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:53.449 Mira Brancu: I'm gonna I'm going to hold on to this and let you think about it for a moment
00:43:53.500 --> 00:43:56.340 Mira Brancu: as we enter another
00:43:56.470 --> 00:43:57.950 Mira Brancu: little break here.
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:03.699 Mira Brancu: So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Alisa, her
00:44:04.070 --> 00:44:06.769 Mira Brancu: and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:09.410 --> 00:46:14.630 Mira Brancu: welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mayor Bronku and our guest, Alisa hair.
00:46:14.670 --> 00:46:36.699 Mira Brancu: Now we're doing this coaching call. And I just wanna make sure that people know that you don't resolve these things in one coaching session. This is a lifetime of unhelpful learned experiences and behaviors that we're trying unlearn that often takes a whole lot more coaching sessions. But we're gonna target just a few more things here with Alisa.
00:46:36.770 --> 00:46:43.760 Mira Brancu: and that is what it means to finally care for yourself.
00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:51.670 Mira Brancu: Right? And I'm wondering, like, we're kind of what are you thinking right now about like what we just discussed about that.
00:46:52.780 --> 00:47:03.900 Alisa Herr: So I cope by taking frantic notes. And one of the things that really resonated with me was like, you know.
00:47:04.170 --> 00:47:10.029 Alisa Herr: bringing up. There's this mutually beneficial agreement that we have in society that we're
00:47:10.060 --> 00:47:15.579 Alisa Herr: but you know it's everybody's job to make people feel supported and comfortable. And so.
00:47:16.390 --> 00:47:17.570 Alisa Herr: when
00:47:17.600 --> 00:47:30.900 Alisa Herr: something happens that makes me not feeling like make makes me uncomfortable, and I want to say something about it. Bringing it up makes us both uncomfortable.
00:47:31.350 --> 00:47:38.629 Alisa Herr: And it, I mean, is it just? Do you just push through the uncomfort? Is that you just do that
00:47:38.910 --> 00:47:47.960 Mira Brancu: for the greater in the beginning. You're pushing through the discomfort because it's new and new things are uncomfortable
00:47:48.610 --> 00:47:50.760 Mira Brancu: and
00:47:51.080 --> 00:47:59.409 Mira Brancu: over time, though you get better and better at it. But if you avoid it. it will stay uncomfortable. because you haven't had enough practice.
00:48:00.100 --> 00:48:11.179 Mira Brancu: and that you can apply that to literally any new risk or challenge that you face. I'm sort of like if you go. If you go back to like starting your business early, early, early early on.
00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:14.770 Mira Brancu: I bet there were things that you did that were super
00:48:14.810 --> 00:48:19.419 Mira Brancu: scary and uncomfortable. And you just pushed past because it was more important to you
00:48:19.750 --> 00:48:22.450 Mira Brancu: to have this business. Is that right?
00:48:22.630 --> 00:48:24.320 Alisa Herr: Yeah, you're right.
00:48:26.130 --> 00:48:36.970 Mira Brancu: It's the same risk as just about emotions. you know and and many of many of us who have been trained to
00:48:38.610 --> 00:48:44.069 Mira Brancu: ignore and not express our true, accurate emotions about things.
00:48:45.090 --> 00:48:49.060 Mira Brancu: It takes some time to practice doing that like as a normal thing.
00:48:49.490 --> 00:48:59.850 Mira Brancu: Yeah, when we think about what you know, how how most men are socialized. They're socialized to also not feel certain emotions and only allowed to feel anger.
00:49:00.210 --> 00:49:06.540 Mira Brancu: Right? We're we're socializing it in a different way. But it's the same issue.
00:49:06.550 --> 00:49:08.320 Mira Brancu: like, if you, if you cannot
00:49:08.370 --> 00:49:20.230 Mira Brancu: sort of allow yourself to experience the full experience of normal human emotion. Then it's going to feel uncomfortable until you practice
00:49:20.270 --> 00:49:22.760 Mira Brancu: and recognized that like, hey.
00:49:22.930 --> 00:49:24.280 Mira Brancu: this is normal.
00:49:24.330 --> 00:49:37.430 Mira Brancu: It's normal for me to be uncomfortable. It's normal for this to feel awkward. It's normal for me to be anxious. everyone does feel anxious in those situations, even if you've practiced quite a bit.
00:49:37.610 --> 00:49:39.130 Mira Brancu: So
00:49:40.130 --> 00:49:42.810 Mira Brancu: some of it is just like accepting like, it's okay
00:49:43.060 --> 00:49:46.490 Mira Brancu: to to feel a little bit of discomfort.
00:49:46.540 --> 00:49:50.419 Mira Brancu: But it's worthwhile if you want to deepen relationships.
00:49:50.690 --> 00:49:56.990 Mira Brancu: And if you want to sort of strengthen the way that people work together and strengthen trust on your team.
00:50:04.060 --> 00:50:09.979 Mira Brancu: I can't wait to listen to this episode so that I can take better notes.
00:50:11.240 --> 00:50:15.949 Mira Brancu: the final thing that I want you to think about is
00:50:18.790 --> 00:50:23.729 Mira Brancu: You're doing something that is upsetting or annoying somebody else.
00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:27.499 Mira Brancu: How would you want to be approached?
00:50:27.680 --> 00:50:31.540 Mira Brancu: Would you want to be approached, or you? Would you want them to hold it in and not tell you.
00:50:32.180 --> 00:50:35.579 Alisa Herr: Yeah, II absolutely would want
00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:39.279 Alisa Herr: them to approach it with like kindness and compassion.
00:50:41.410 --> 00:50:45.270 Alisa Herr: Yeah, so yeah, I mean, and it's hard. I mean, sometimes
00:50:45.810 --> 00:50:46.540 Alisa Herr: it
00:50:46.900 --> 00:50:51.600 Alisa Herr: is painful to hear. But yes, it is better to hear it.
00:50:52.290 --> 00:50:55.950 Mira Brancu: Okay. So if you are the kind of person
00:50:56.080 --> 00:50:59.629 Mira Brancu: that would rather know than not know.
00:50:59.850 --> 00:51:03.729 Mira Brancu: But she want to know in a specific way, which is with kindness and compassion.
00:51:04.620 --> 00:51:07.629 Mira Brancu: how would you ideally imagine
00:51:08.350 --> 00:51:11.740 Mira Brancu: someone approaching you with that?
00:51:15.140 --> 00:51:25.190 Alisa Herr: be private. gentle tone of voice.
00:51:28.380 --> 00:51:32.299 Alisa Herr: I feel like I'm struggling with describing
00:51:32.630 --> 00:51:34.170 Alisa Herr: describing it. But
00:51:34.490 --> 00:51:38.980 Alisa Herr: yeah, being able to
00:51:41.740 --> 00:51:47.699 Alisa Herr: give me the direct feedback. It's all the things that I'm I'm not great at. But yeah, the it's
00:51:47.870 --> 00:51:55.900 Alisa Herr: you're being able to say it in a non emotional way, and a
00:51:56.570 --> 00:52:08.369 Alisa Herr: having specific examples, you know, being willing to talk if I have questions about it. And and being able to sit with feelings that arise?
00:52:08.770 --> 00:52:15.300 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So And then, if they did, that, would that feel like they cared about you?
00:52:15.340 --> 00:52:16.809 Alisa Herr: Yeah. And your growth?
00:52:17.130 --> 00:52:18.980 Alisa Herr: Yeah, definitely would. Yeah.
00:52:20.370 --> 00:52:24.200 Mira Brancu: So something to just keep in mind is
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:35.489 Mira Brancu: if you can approach it with the recognition that, like the only reason you would ever be interested in wanting to give feedback to someone is because you actually care about them.
00:52:35.610 --> 00:52:37.270 Mira Brancu: And you want to retain them.
00:52:39.020 --> 00:52:41.760 Mira Brancu: Yeah, like, if you could not care less.
00:52:42.030 --> 00:52:45.460 Mira Brancu: you didn't want to retain them. you wouldn't put that effort in.
00:52:47.270 --> 00:52:53.170 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So making sure that you're approaching it with like, I'm doing this because I care.
00:52:53.450 --> 00:52:56.490 Mira Brancu: and I'm so I'm supporting them in their growth
00:52:57.580 --> 00:53:01.800 Mira Brancu: as a mentor. as a leader, who cares
00:53:03.210 --> 00:53:08.109 Mira Brancu: as someone who wants to see them succeed. And you could literally say that
00:53:09.490 --> 00:53:17.100 Mira Brancu: I have to say something really hard, and it's only because I care. And I want to see you succeed. And this is like so important to me to help you do this
00:53:18.700 --> 00:53:23.380 Alisa Herr: right beautiful like II just love to ken up that
00:53:23.720 --> 00:53:39.829 Mira Brancu: exact phrase and say it. Yeah, I've been very, very hesitant, Alisa, to give you words, because I know you were saying like, this is your thing that you wanna like just bottle up other people's words, and I don't want it to be unnatural to you. I want it to be your thing.
00:53:40.390 --> 00:53:42.809 Mira Brancu: Cause if you, if you
00:53:42.970 --> 00:53:44.900 Mira Brancu: make it about like
00:53:45.150 --> 00:53:55.479 Mira Brancu: capturing the way that other people say it. It's always going to be stressful to you. So I'd rather you come up with, like your own words about why this is important
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:59.429 Mira Brancu: to you to share with other people. When you give feedback.
00:54:00.630 --> 00:54:03.899 Mira Brancu: Yeah, cause it'll it'll just be much more natural if you do it that way.
00:54:03.950 --> 00:54:06.269 Alisa Herr: Yeah, that's true.
00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:13.669 Alisa Herr: yeah, it's it's so interesting. It's like, you know, this, the advice of like, how treating
00:54:14.140 --> 00:54:16.640 Alisa Herr: people, how you'd like want to be treated.
00:54:18.170 --> 00:54:19.360 Alisa Herr: And
00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:23.369 Alisa Herr: yeah, I don't know. It's
00:54:26.250 --> 00:54:32.259 Alisa Herr: of course I've thought about it before. How would I want somebody to give me feedback? But
00:54:32.470 --> 00:54:37.569 Alisa Herr: yeah, this perspective is really helpful. Thanks.
00:54:37.640 --> 00:54:42.169 Mira Brancu: good, good. I do think that you actually have a very
00:54:42.950 --> 00:54:47.579 Mira Brancu: naturally thoughtful caring way about you.
00:54:47.670 --> 00:54:50.220 Mira Brancu: And so
00:54:50.860 --> 00:54:54.789 Mira Brancu: I would rather you pull more of that out of yourself
00:54:55.510 --> 00:54:57.469 Mira Brancu: and write down like
00:54:57.860 --> 00:54:59.160 Mira Brancu: from your heart
00:54:59.710 --> 00:55:04.669 Mira Brancu: what you want someone to know about how much you care about giving them this feedback
00:55:05.050 --> 00:55:08.720 Mira Brancu: than trying to capture the exact words of somebody else.
00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:16.659 Mira Brancu: because that's where that's where you're getting stuck right now. I think this is your greatest challenge is feeling like it's gotta be perfect
00:55:16.870 --> 00:55:22.440 Mira Brancu: so that it's palatable. But the most palatable to people is when it's coming from your heart.
00:55:24.190 --> 00:55:25.870 Alisa Herr: Yeah, you're right.
00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:41.910 Alisa Herr: And actually, that's the kind of feedback I've gotten from my team. Is that like I am a caring and compassionate person and caring and compassionate leader and and that that is a strength that I have, and that they really appreciate about me.
00:55:44.600 --> 00:55:45.510 Mira Brancu: hmm!
00:55:47.270 --> 00:55:52.630 Mira Brancu: So don't dismiss what they appreciate most about your strength.
00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:56.090 Mira Brancu: And and when you
00:55:57.010 --> 00:55:57.910 Mira Brancu: seek
00:55:59.220 --> 00:56:01.629 Mira Brancu: other people's words.
00:56:01.890 --> 00:56:05.769 Mira Brancu: then you're taking away from the strength that they appreciate so much about you.
00:56:10.690 --> 00:56:15.350 Alisa Herr: Yeah. And it's all about comparing myself to others.
00:56:16.170 --> 00:56:24.190 Mira Brancu: So yeah, when they when when your team already sees that you have your own unique strengths.
00:56:24.530 --> 00:56:25.790 Mira Brancu: But they appreciate.
00:56:28.900 --> 00:56:35.850 Mira Brancu: all right. We can go on and on and on. I know it. But we are reaching the end at this point.
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:57.220 Mira Brancu: So this was, you know, so so good for you know so many people, I think, that are struggling with the same thing. So I really appreciate Alisa, you coming on sharing this challenge and sharing, you know yourself with with others, and hopefully, you got some some helpful tips out of this.
00:56:58.120 --> 00:57:02.389 Alisa Herr: I really appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you so much, absolutely.
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:07.600 Mira Brancu: In this episode, we discuss so many aspects of leaning into the hard skills.
00:57:07.630 --> 00:57:17.920 Mira Brancu: What did you audience get from this what you take away importantly, what is one small change you can implement this week, based on what we talked about with Elisa.
00:57:18.190 --> 00:57:19.869 Mira Brancu: You couldn't share it with me.
00:57:20.080 --> 00:57:33.850 Mira Brancu: On Linkedin, at Mirabranku firstname.lastname@example.org, so we could cheer you on. We're on itunes and spotify. Please subscribe to the podcast leave a review and share with others. So we can increase visibility, reach and impact.
00:57:34.890 --> 00:57:38.420 Mira Brancu: Thank you for talkradio, dot, Nyc for hosting.
00:57:38.530 --> 00:57:45.279 Mira Brancu: I'm Doctor Mirabu, the host of the Hard Skills show. Thank you for joining us today with Elisa. Her
00:57:45.510 --> 00:57:49.180 Mira Brancu: have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from