Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, September 7, 2023
Facebook Live Video from 2023/09/07 - The Impact of Racism on Mental Health

Facebook Live Video from 2023/09/07 - The Impact of Racism on Mental Health


2023/09/07 - The Impact of Racism on Mental Health

[NEW EPISODE] The Impact of Racism on Mental Health

The audience will hear how racism impacts mental health.

Racism is a public health crisis that impacts each of us on every level of life - education, medical, relationships, politics, communities, personal (how we see ourselves), judicial, the church, mental health, criminal justice, LGBTQ, academia, etc. We all have a lifelong journey to help each other and ourselves to be free without fear. We can no longer be content to walk through our lives, hoping we make it without impacting others for freedom. We must be intentional in encouraging one another to do better until we are all free the breach is repaired, and the restoration is complete.

Join Rev. Dr. TLC and her guest, Reverend Renee Rouse as they discuss the multilayered impact of racism, particularly as it relates to mental health, on people of color.





Tune in for this important conversation at

Show Notes

Segment 1

Segment 2

Segment 3

Segment 4


00:00:50.770 --> 00:01:04.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we are back with my guests, Reverend Renee Rouse. I'm so excited to have you here today, and before the break, II said, when we came back, I want to know what is the repair of the breach.

00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:09.139 Pastor Renee Rouse: A breach is where there has been an intentional

00:01:09.490 --> 00:01:23.270 Pastor Renee Rouse: formation, something created to be used one way, and then something or someone has come along and broken it, or intended to use it in a different way. Creator.

00:01:23.370 --> 00:01:26.170 Pastor Renee Rouse: the Divine Creator created

00:01:26.790 --> 00:01:34.140 Pastor Renee Rouse: human beings to work in community, together with all kinds of different gifts.

00:01:34.220 --> 00:01:47.670 Pastor Renee Rouse: with the intent to work together, to create beauty, to create community. And there's been a breach. And so, just like me and Maya, who came along

00:01:47.740 --> 00:01:56.649 Pastor Renee Rouse: to rebuild the wall. There has been an intentional de desire to violate

00:01:56.690 --> 00:02:00.869 Pastor Renee Rouse: community. The beloved community

00:02:00.930 --> 00:02:02.660 Pastor Renee Rouse: has been broken.

00:02:03.570 --> 00:02:08.650 Pastor Renee Rouse: and there must be an intentional decision

00:02:09.130 --> 00:02:11.529 Pastor Renee Rouse: to repair

00:02:11.600 --> 00:02:12.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that

00:02:12.790 --> 00:02:31.919 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breach. So I love this word intentional. So how does that show up when we talk about whether it's in our own community as African Americans. Or if we're talking about more globally, how do we begin to repair that breach to repair the breach in the African

00:02:31.990 --> 00:02:50.340 Pastor Renee Rouse: people of African descent community, we must first look at our history and recognize a breach has occurred that the very reality that I, as a woman of African descent, did not know my history.

00:02:50.340 --> 00:03:09.479 Pastor Renee Rouse: I did not know where I came from. Originally I had been led to believe I came from enslavement. That was a lie, that I did not know that I was not created as a slave. That's right.

00:03:09.610 --> 00:03:29.400 Pastor Renee Rouse: but that was what. When I look at what little history I knew about who I was. It looks like that was what my history was. That is a breach right there. Yeah. So I wanna just say, I wanna just jump in here if I could, because

00:03:29.600 --> 00:03:41.509 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when I think about this from a spiritual place, none of us were born enslaved, right born as free individuals. But even as you talk about history, what I love

00:03:41.550 --> 00:04:04.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about watching those shows where people uncover their history. Many of us believe that we were naturally we come from enslaved people, but there were so many of us that were born free. There were many of us where when we were born, enslaved. That's that someone in our family became free, and then they bought our freedom. And so

00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:09.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I think it's important for us to know our history, because history tells us

00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:22.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that we are less than. And history tells not only people of color that were less than it also tells white people. So therefore, when we're looking at the impact of racism

00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:39.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on society and on us. We don't even recognize it as such, because we've been sold a bill of goods. And that's why I love about this idea of saying Covid it is to go back and to retrieve, because once we know our history.

00:04:39.730 --> 00:04:55.959 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know, we we are better able to serve ourselves and others, as you, as you say, our best sales. And as I was reading your bio, I'm like we're so much in sync with with one another in the ways in which we see life, and one of the things

00:04:56.260 --> 00:04:59.289 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know, I used to have a T-shirt that says,

00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:10.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ignorance is bondage. Know your heritage just as easily as know your history. So talk to me a little bit

00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:12.709 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as a repair of the breach.

00:05:12.750 --> 00:05:30.259 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and as one who uses all forms of more modality to heal that. What do you noticing when you interact with people about the impact of racism? One of the realities for people of African descent. In particular, there is a resistance

00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:31.959 Pastor Renee Rouse: to learning

00:05:32.190 --> 00:05:41.139 Pastor Renee Rouse: what the true self actually is. Who are we? Where do we come from? It is easier to accept.

00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:46.079 Pastor Renee Rouse: I'm nobody. I'm nothing except

00:05:46.870 --> 00:05:57.060 Pastor Renee Rouse: you have value. You matter that it's it's not accepted. It should not be acceptable to you that

00:05:57.230 --> 00:06:04.289 Pastor Renee Rouse: you don't matter. It's easier, after all these generations, to believe.

00:06:05.430 --> 00:06:10.850 Pastor Renee Rouse: No, I don't matter then, to accept the hard work

00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.580 Pastor Renee Rouse: somebody

00:06:13.650 --> 00:06:16.400 Pastor Renee Rouse: has invested

00:06:16.520 --> 00:06:38.110 Pastor Renee Rouse: in your success because you have failed for so long doesn't mean that's the intent for you. In reality, you have settled for that for so long, because it's been so hard to get up when it reality. What you have to remember is somebody

00:06:38.390 --> 00:06:51.599 Pastor Renee Rouse: somebody generations before struggled and went through so much so you could make it, as far as you have. What are you leaving for the next generation? If you're not willing to get up?

00:06:51.600 --> 00:07:10.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's right, that's right. And so that's why we need to know our history need to know the pain of what people like Harriet. Something went through what she overcame. And still, and I'm so glad that you said that somebody, even if it was generations before invested in you. I'm very curious, reverend

00:07:10.870 --> 00:07:25.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: cause I have my opinion on this, but I'd love to hear your opinion when we talk about racism impacting almost every aspect of our lives. Talk to me about your beliefs, and how religion

00:07:26.550 --> 00:07:37.589 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: has perpetuated racism. If you if you think so, and how we have learned to respond in that context, based on what we've been taught.

00:07:37.910 --> 00:07:44.800 Pastor Renee Rouse: I believe that religion has been a culprit. It has been a facilitator

00:07:45.050 --> 00:07:46.600 Pastor Renee Rouse: in supporting

00:07:46.620 --> 00:07:57.989 Pastor Renee Rouse: racism. I think that people of African descent have believe that it has been the intent of the divine

00:07:58.110 --> 00:08:12.939 Pastor Renee Rouse: to keep racism in place, and that people of African descent, were the chosen people to suffer, and that suffering is part of the religious

00:08:13.090 --> 00:08:33.579 Pastor Renee Rouse: process when in actuality that was never true, ever ever, and that our religion used racism as a way to say, Well, you know, this was. This was God's will for you, that was a lie when in actuality, I believe that in particular, in the area of Christianity.

00:08:33.669 --> 00:09:03.119 Pastor Renee Rouse: It took me a while to realize that when people of African descent during the enslavement period were looking at the Israelites, they could see themselves. This looks like us, not realizing that was African history, and that when when I when I think about when I went to seminary and was never told, that was African history, I was just

00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:32.700 Pastor Renee Rouse: overwhelmed when I realized when I kept looking, looking, trying to find myself somewhere in the Hebrew text, and still no one in my seminary time would say, you know that any of those women in the Hebrew text were of African descent. They denied me that freedom that looked like me. Even if you think about it right

00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:39.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Boaz, and you know Boaz is coming from

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:47.599 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I believe he came from Kaydenite, Kane and I, either he or Ruth. 1 one of them did that. My memory is blanking on me at the moment. But Canaanite are people

00:09:47.600 --> 00:10:11.409 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: color, and and what's interesting is I can remember years ago. I'm so grateful for this older gentleman who was one of my spiritual mentors. I understood as I got older he talked about the first people being of African descent, that we were born there right, and they even history has shown it. II watched a whole episode on the History Channel one night. The first

00:10:11.410 --> 00:10:31.589 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: May man, they say, was of African descent, and so I think that it is important. One of the things I think is really important for us is to always ask questions, and we don't do enough of that. I don't care if you're black person of color, white people. We don't ask enough questions. We continue

00:10:31.650 --> 00:10:33.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in a system

00:10:33.750 --> 00:10:39.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of racism, because that's what it's been for so long. But we know questioning

00:10:39.320 --> 00:11:04.749 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: starts to open the door for us to find new answers so so spiritually. Then, when you are working with people, whether it is people of color or people who are predominantly white, because II know you serve or have serve predominantly white congregations. It is about opening the door to show people that impact. And so how are you received

00:11:04.790 --> 00:11:11.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when you talk to people about the impact of racism, whether it be people of African descent or white people?

00:11:11.910 --> 00:11:16.209 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How are you received to try to open the door to

00:11:16.370 --> 00:11:19.699 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: education so that they can live their best selves.

00:11:19.790 --> 00:11:36.279 Pastor Renee Rouse: The the resistance is, I have been living my best self, and what you're doing is trying to disrupt my best self, because what you're saying is just not true that to me is a byproduct of voice supremacy, because that means

00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:56.400 Pastor Renee Rouse: you're trying to take what I've grown up with and say it's been a lie, and what I usually have to say I'm not trying to disrupt it. What I'm trying to do is free you from something that's kept you in bondage. Being at being your best self is to have you free of the fear that

00:11:57.090 --> 00:12:10.340 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you might have to learn something that will set you free. I want us both free. Yeah. You know what's interesting when people say that they're living their best lives. That means you think you've stopped.

00:12:10.340 --> 00:12:29.909 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, have any other growth you might be. You might be here right now, but you could grow more. You gotta go and who doesn't want to to grow. And so it's interesting that you talk about the resistance because people don't want their views to be challenged. And

00:12:30.290 --> 00:12:41.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I think it's really important for people to understand what Dr. Joy Daburu was saying about pro post traumatic slave syndrome, because even I saw a video the other day

00:12:41.820 --> 00:12:44.249 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: where she was explaining

00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:51.059 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that even when we are in conversations, for instance, as a as a black person.

00:12:51.280 --> 00:12:58.519 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: For example, if I am in a conversation with a white woman, and that white woman is talking all about how wonderful her kids are.

00:12:58.800 --> 00:13:19.749 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and then she says, but your kids are doing great, too. Blah! Blah! Blah! Blah blah blah blah blah! And if I start out with yes, but they're over here giving me trouble in this area, as opposed to thinking about the good they're doing is not that I don't want to highlight my kids proud of them. But what she says is.

00:13:20.050 --> 00:13:26.859 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when we do that it harkens back to end this enslavement period, because if the overseer

00:13:26.890 --> 00:13:29.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or NASA, you know.

00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:36.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: were to say, Oh, your kid is brought brilliant. They can work hard. Blah blah blah blah! We knew

00:13:36.470 --> 00:13:45.279 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that in order for them not to be sold we would have to denigrate that. Kids say, Oh, no, they're shiftless, lazy, blah, blah blah.

00:13:45.440 --> 00:14:04.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so when we do that in modern daytime, when we fail to highlight our kids, because we know the dynamics of black, white conversations that goes back to post traumatic slave syndrome. So we may be free on the one hand, as you're saying, live in our best life because we

00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:16.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: maybe they're in bit good schools, nice car, nice home. We think we're free. Yes, but in actuality we're not totally free when we hold on to those old

00:14:16.290 --> 00:14:30.479 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ways of thinking. And so I believe that that's what you're saying about freeing people. Reverend, we have to take a break. But I want to talk about some other ways that you have noticed

00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:41.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the impact of racism. I know that. We. We talked a little bit beforehand, and we talked about in Academia

00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:54.139 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the Lgbtqia community is still very pervasive. And so I would love love, love, love, love, love, love, love to talk to you about that. You know.

00:14:54.140 --> 00:15:22.559 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I just wanna thank one of our listeners before we go to break for commenting. Hello, Marlisa! Who said, thinking about? Be mindful of my why? And she said, Let me sit with my why and move. Yes, can't wait for this. So on time for her. So I'm so grateful, Marlisa, for you tuning in and for sending us the comment we love to hear from our listeners. We're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna come back and continue our conversation.

00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:25.739 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let the Reverend Renee rouse. We'll be right back.

00:17:27.170 --> 00:17:36.629 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with the dismantle racism. Show my guest today is the Reverend Renee Rouse and Reverend, before we.

00:17:36.790 --> 00:17:45.419 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know, took a break. We had been talking about some of this ways. Racism impacts us spiritually. And

00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:50.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know, just just before we go into just thinking about some other areas.

00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:57.299 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I can. I understand, how people of color connect with

00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:08.119 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the Israelites. And it's like liberation, theology, what you and I learned, but I also believe, even when we go beyond that, in the ways in which we structure

00:18:08.230 --> 00:18:13.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our lives and the ways in which we structure, our home life.

00:18:13.180 --> 00:18:21.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is based on colonization if you think about it historically, as people of African descent.

00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:25.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Many times it was the women who were leading.

00:18:25.530 --> 00:18:36.289 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for instance, in in particular tribes. But when we look at Christianity it teaches us men are supposed to be the head of the household, and some people get caught up in that

00:18:36.510 --> 00:18:38.939 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and don't honor who we are

00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:57.159 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as people of color. And so if we could just invite our audience to really think about how we have been shaped by colonization. Yes, that's what that works. And really all is all about, you know is is is really knowing your history, and knowing the power

00:18:57.780 --> 00:19:03.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of your community, knowing the power of us coming together as that beloved community

00:19:04.050 --> 00:19:11.139 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as opposed to there having to be this hierarchy in the way that it is. So. I just wanted to just point that out.

00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.749 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to encourage people to go deeply into your religious beliefs

00:19:16.040 --> 00:19:34.469 Pastor Renee Rouse: and see how they're showing up with us, not manifesting our best sales. And so I don't know if you want to comment on that, or if you want us to move on to the other areas. Well, if they look back into their history far enough at what you just said is true. The women were, in fact, keeping the beloved community

00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:39.600 Pastor Renee Rouse: not only being their best selves, but they were were respected

00:19:39.610 --> 00:19:49.680 Pastor Renee Rouse: and seen as equal, not seen as lower, and therefore had to be kept in check. But there was that

00:19:49.740 --> 00:20:13.250 Pastor Renee Rouse: S that was reality of they were equal to. And then what began to happen is that they were dehumanized, and through that dehumanization process the women began to not only not have a face, they began to not be seen as able to think.

00:20:13.420 --> 00:20:20.699 Pastor Renee Rouse: and therefore they began to be seen as only reproductive reproductive

00:20:20.840 --> 00:20:22.820 Pastor Renee Rouse: tools

00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:30.949 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: over time. And so how does that show up? II love that you're saying that because how does that show up then?

00:20:31.170 --> 00:20:43.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And the African American community? So we talked about racism impacting all aspects socially, culturally, and all that. So how does that show up in the ways in which we might dehumanize one another.

00:20:43.230 --> 00:20:57.530 Pastor Renee Rouse: Well, the way, I think, in the African American system is through, unfortunately, through slavery, through that impact of slavery. Women were used to reproduce more

00:20:57.850 --> 00:20:59.080 Pastor Renee Rouse: slaves

00:20:59.150 --> 00:21:04.450 Pastor Renee Rouse: and women were also put in positions of

00:21:04.590 --> 00:21:18.750 Pastor Renee Rouse: being dehumanized where you had that concept of women were not seen as people, as humans, but just as a reproductive tool, so that they could produce more

00:21:18.940 --> 00:21:43.480 Pastor Renee Rouse: people to, not even people, but as slaves who were not seen as people. Men were used to reproduce more slaves. The women were used to bear those slaves because they were none of them were people, and after a time they began to lose sight of the fact that they were people at all to one another.

00:21:43.480 --> 00:22:04.909 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and and you know, I just wanna say, because I understand the context of how you're using the word slave. But we were not actually slaves, slave, and that need to understand, because I've I've recently years just changed that terminology. I don't say slaves, because I'm like, no, there was an enslaver

00:22:04.910 --> 00:22:22.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: exactly, and that enslaved my people, because to say that we're slaves really still dehumanizes us exactly says that we're not worth it. So I think in in our communities today there are many ways that we dehumanize one another, and we don't

00:22:22.570 --> 00:22:32.670 Pastor Renee Rouse: hold value for one another. And that process began when you take people and you take them out of their community

00:22:32.830 --> 00:22:56.980 Pastor Renee Rouse: of origin, put them in another environment and then dehumanize them. And then they're forced to learn another language or another culture while they're being dehumanized. And then we so called from a legal perspective, call this in this particular nation called. We're going to free you now.

00:22:56.980 --> 00:23:05.130 Pastor Renee Rouse: But the freedom wasn't freedom without fear, it had fear involved. And then you add religion.

00:23:05.810 --> 00:23:18.050 Pastor Renee Rouse: and then you add music. Hmm! Then you add all these other sub cultural things that began to happen, and in order to survive

00:23:18.120 --> 00:23:24.020 Pastor Renee Rouse: the a subculture was created. and when that subculture began

00:23:24.190 --> 00:23:39.899 Pastor Renee Rouse: you develop your own way of trying to survive. And with that came this way of this is how men will behave. This is how women will behave. This is how children will be treated.

00:23:39.950 --> 00:23:46.089 Pastor Renee Rouse: And then what came with that was the violence toward children, the violence toward women.

00:23:46.280 --> 00:23:57.329 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that with that came. This is how men are perceived as being in charge. It's so it interesting, though. Because even if you think about

00:23:57.360 --> 00:24:03.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you, you use the the example of how we were basically breeders

00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:09.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: sometimes, I believe. And I know this will set people off of some people, but I also believe that

00:24:10.100 --> 00:24:11.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: many

00:24:11.610 --> 00:24:37.669 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: people in our culture have bought into. I need to have multiple babies by by multiple men or men believing that. Oh, I need to have multiple women. That is a form of post traumatic slave syndrome. That's what you're. That's what's gonna make you have value. And that's the sad part that we don't know that. So when we talk about the impact of racism.

00:24:37.670 --> 00:25:00.599 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's one of the ways in which, and I know that we can spend lots of time talking about the medical disparities. And we can talk about the justice system. How so many of our people are in the justice system? But again, that's a direct impact of the racism, that system. I'm a mother, who is adopted

00:25:00.980 --> 00:25:07.400 Pastor Renee Rouse: many, many children living here in New Hampshire that are children of color, and I

00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:19.949 Pastor Renee Rouse: had to fight to get and didact out of one of my children's record because a doctor made a decision because I was a woman of African descent.

00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:45.439 Pastor Renee Rouse: and I had gone to a doctor's appointment and he saw all of these children. He made a decision, very unprofessional decision, to put in her record that I was a woman with all of these children. They obviously in his mind, were all fathered by different fathers, and he put that in her record. And so I had to fight

00:25:45.440 --> 00:26:07.389 Pastor Renee Rouse: to get that all removed. Because, I said, I've adopted all these children. And who do you think you are? And even if I had thought, had all these children fathered by different fathers. Who do you think you are writing that in a a record of a child? And that's that's just one example of what happens

00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:20.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to us medically and hopefully. And the other thing that happens medically to us is that often when we go to the doctors our voices are not heard. No, and research has shown

00:26:20.140 --> 00:26:30.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that people believe that we can tolerate pain. So that is why, when we go to the hospital to the hospital doctors office, wherever

00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:42.839 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're not taking that seriously. So when we talk about the impact of racism, we are talking about life and death situations that it takes longer for us to be diagnosed

00:26:42.850 --> 00:26:53.979 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: doesn't take white people, even if we talk about things like breast cancer, you know. Because

00:26:54.400 --> 00:27:04.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: people don't take us seriously. And that's why we have to look at what is the impact of our thinking which is based on a system of white supremacy? Yes.

00:27:04.780 --> 00:27:26.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: how does it impact us daily. So you've talked about it from a spiritual place. We're talking about it from really, we talking about it from a justice place, too, because we know that more of us get locked up for the same crime that white people commit, and we're talking about it from a medical perspective as well. And so what I hear you saying.

00:27:26.360 --> 00:27:28.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know, as a mother.

00:27:28.340 --> 00:27:39.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as a spiritual leader. These are everyday experiences, and we must understand the history from where they come from, and in order to to repair that breach.

00:27:39.940 --> 00:28:05.289 Pastor Renee Rouse: we must also be willing to listen to one another, but help those who also begin to believe there's no point in doing anything about it. Those who experiences in the workplace those who experience this in churches there are those of African descent who may go to a church, and they're the only person in their church when they go to complain

00:28:05.290 --> 00:28:10.329 Pastor Renee Rouse: to their minister. I'm SII believe this is happening to me, and the ministers goes.

00:28:10.570 --> 00:28:39.820 Pastor Renee Rouse: Oh, I can't believe anybody would do that to you. That in itself is a form of racism happening within that church minister is facilitating racism within their church. Right? And I wanna you just remind it because at 1 point, actually a church that I used to Pastor. I was before pastoring it. I attended that church for years as one of the few African Americans in that church.

00:28:40.100 --> 00:28:46.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and when your examples never include anything that is race related

00:28:46.390 --> 00:29:03.389 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to me. You're also perpetuating braces society where things are happening all the time. I know when I attended this church, and I've never told this pastor this. And we, you know we we're very friendly when when we see each other and all of that. But I just remember

00:29:03.990 --> 00:29:05.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when

00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:09.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Senator Obama was elected as President.

00:29:09.990 --> 00:29:14.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I remember going to church that Sunday after that.

00:29:14.330 --> 00:29:18.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and there was never any mention of that

00:29:18.130 --> 00:29:24.349 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to me. That is a perpetuation of racism, because I don't care what you're voting

00:29:24.600 --> 00:29:36.059 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: stance is who you vote for. I don't. Well, I should say I don't care cause. Sometimes I do care about who you're voting for, but I don't. Typically your politics or your politics. I get that.

00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:49.309 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But this was the first African American president. and you can't say anything about it, even if you're saying to the audience, Look at how our world is changing. Yes.

00:29:49.640 --> 00:30:12.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: say something. And so I want spiritual leaders to know that racism. Why spiritual leaders has impacted some of you so much that you can't even get up on a Sunday. Speak and speak right. But we do have to take a quick break and we are going to be right back so we can continue our conversation on the impact of racism. We'll be right back.

00:32:16.490 --> 00:32:43.849 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we're back with the dismantle rate system show. I can't believe we're we're almost near the hour. But before we engage in further conversations, I just want to comment. One of our Facebook comments. Is that what is resignating with her is is what you heard that women of African descent were respected and seen before being dehumanized, and there's also a comment.

00:32:43.850 --> 00:33:03.449 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's often when I go to the doctor with some of my doctors, I have to advocate for myself while being ill. I have to ask questions, not just about my health and healing, but frame the way I will be talked to and treated what I need from the doctor as a human and

00:33:03.580 --> 00:33:04.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: patient.

00:33:04.950 --> 00:33:20.779 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How II am treated! Talk to what medical options are discussed! Often they have left things out of own out, or only excuse me, offered what they think is best without talking to me again while being

00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:33.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ill, and that's the impact. And if doctors only knew how much we have to advocate for ourselves. You're causing this particular person more stress. You cause me more stress

00:33:33.870 --> 00:33:39.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when I have to try to get you to see me and think of me as human. Any thoughts about that.

00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.530 Pastor Renee Rouse: I think this is a common phenomena going on all over the country.

00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:49.570 Pastor Renee Rouse: and when I think, about our

00:33:51.160 --> 00:34:01.789 Pastor Renee Rouse: people of African descent who are mixed. They have parents that are of European descent. who? And then a parent that's of African descent

00:34:01.820 --> 00:34:07.429 Pastor Renee Rouse: that they fall in between the cracks. They may not be, as

00:34:08.139 --> 00:34:10.630 Pastor Renee Rouse: they may not look as African descent.

00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:21.540 Pastor Renee Rouse: but they may identify as African descent. and walk into a doctor's office, or walk into a lawyer's office, or walk into a dentist's office

00:34:21.620 --> 00:34:23.590 Pastor Renee Rouse: and find themselves

00:34:24.610 --> 00:34:27.900 Pastor Renee Rouse: denied. Hmm,

00:34:27.949 --> 00:34:55.699 Pastor Renee Rouse: It's those very realities is where racism has its greatest impact and they do not know what they're supposed to do. If they now have become adults and have married someone of African descent or Asian descent, and now have children who now look African descent, it becomes even more problematic because the white supremacy of our nation that has permeated every area of life

00:34:55.770 --> 00:35:18.760 Pastor Renee Rouse: makes it clearer and clearer. And because we want to believe in the Church, in the academia, in the schools, that this is all been settled, it makes it more and more clear that if we're not willing to truly look at our history, and if we're not really willing to repair

00:35:18.810 --> 00:35:22.709 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the breach and do the work that needs to be done.

00:35:22.910 --> 00:35:44.619 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This will continue to be a problem here in these United States. And you know, it's really interesting about what you're saying. There's so so much II could say. But what's interesting is, even when folks like desantis who doesn't wanna talk about history. Yes, and say we do a disservice when we don't talk about history, because that means we can't see

00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:52.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the value in all people. We began to continue to think, well, black people are

00:35:52.650 --> 00:36:00.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it. No dude. They're not human. Black people are no good. They're lazy, blah, blah, and that kind of thinking right? There

00:36:00.850 --> 00:36:09.779 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: goes into the mindset of a person who wants to go and shoot up a bunch of black folks because they don't think that we're worth it because they've not been taught

00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:22.259 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that we are valuable. And that's how racism impacts us all over. Not talking about our history will not settle the problem, it will only perpetuate. It

00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:29.699 Pastor Renee Rouse: only can allow fear from the foundation, and therefore healing.

00:36:30.200 --> 00:36:39.439 Pastor Renee Rouse: which is what's necessary for breach to be repaired, because, you see, the breach gets repaired by, you know.

00:36:39.930 --> 00:36:43.499 Pastor Renee Rouse: Th there has to be something that comes along

00:36:43.570 --> 00:36:48.610 Pastor Renee Rouse: that heals that breach. It's it's no different than when you're trying to

00:36:48.710 --> 00:36:55.019 Pastor Renee Rouse: heal somebody's body, or if you're working with the earth, is the same thing with earth. The earth

00:36:55.050 --> 00:37:05.550 Pastor Renee Rouse: was experiencing healing during Covid, because we stop doing things to it requires healing.

00:37:05.830 --> 00:37:11.929 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So let me ask you, Reverend, because we're you know, our time is is gonna run out very quickly. What?

00:37:12.090 --> 00:37:25.539 Pastor Renee Rouse: What are some of the first approaches that you take to healing and repairing that breach? What can you tell our audience something? They could walk away with some of the things I do with when I look at healing is trying to establish a relationship

00:37:25.720 --> 00:37:30.229 Pastor Renee Rouse: relationship with people who are hostile

00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:44.739 Pastor Renee Rouse: and some people that are hostile don't want a relationship, some of them will walk away. And so I accept their walking away. And so you work with relationship with people that are willing to be in that community. And that takes

00:37:44.900 --> 00:37:53.329 Pastor Renee Rouse: time. Relationship means that you spend time at their level, and that could be anything from a meal.

00:37:54.130 --> 00:38:03.170 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a meal with people. A meal. Food is a primary reinforcer. It's just time eating together.

00:38:03.180 --> 00:38:07.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and when you spend time eating together you get to learn what people's

00:38:08.040 --> 00:38:18.029 Pastor Renee Rouse: heartaches are. You get to hear listening and hearing what people's heartaches are about learning who they are.

00:38:18.310 --> 00:38:24.429 Pastor Renee Rouse: what they struggle with. and then finding out what your common denominators are

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:37.160 Pastor Renee Rouse: to know what people's common denominators are. As long as you're spending time fighting about what your differences are, you will never get to that place of being able to find out what the healing

00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:39.310 Pastor Renee Rouse: staff what should be.

00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:48.620 Pastor Renee Rouse: If you can plant a garden together, work in the dirt together.

00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:52.969 Pastor Renee Rouse: You had to have common ground.

00:38:53.130 --> 00:38:56.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I love that. You're saying that because, you know people.

00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:21.409 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they want to take a course on dismantling racism. And of course I want them to, because that's what I teach it. But but the thing about it, when I do teach it is exactly what you said to walk outside of these doors and put it to practice. But a lot of times people wanna you wanna they wanna take a course with only people who look like them. Well, how are you gonna establish so many of folks

00:39:21.560 --> 00:39:50.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that I work with don't have one person of color that they have, that they could trust to talk to conversations. And I love that you're saying, start with the relationship. And then like, Oh, I love a meal, and I love the gardening as well as I wanted to say to my listeners, because I know we don't have a lot of time here. Find something that you can do to establish that relationship. I do. Wanna ask you, Rev. Before we go.

00:39:50.490 --> 00:39:59.029 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How can people get in touch with you if they want to to talk with you about how to repair the breach.

00:39:59.890 --> 00:40:09.240 Pastor Renee Rouse: I'm at the Northwest Congregational Church at Northwood, New Hampshire. I am the solo pastor there. and

00:40:09.510 --> 00:40:17.740 Pastor Renee Rouse: you can reach me there. We have a Facebook page, and I have a personal Facebook page, and it's not hard to find me there, either.

00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:26.429 Pastor Renee Rouse: I'm willing and able to talk to people about it. I I'm here as long as

00:40:27.230 --> 00:40:36.989 Pastor Renee Rouse: Divine Creator gives me breath to be here and I truly believe that as long as we've got breath we have an opportunity to be about

00:40:38.700 --> 00:41:08.290 Pastor Renee Rouse: preparing this breach together, because I can't do it by myself. Well, with that note in about 30 s. Could you offer us just some form of blessing or going for it? My blessing to each and every one of you that are listening is to know that you were created with a purpose, and your purpose is to have relationship with those who need to make a difference, and everybody can make a difference. It's very simple.

00:41:08.330 --> 00:41:11.020 Pastor Renee Rouse: Just smile.

00:41:11.450 --> 00:41:15.900 Pastor Renee Rouse: You will make a difference in someone's life when you see someone hurting.

00:41:15.930 --> 00:41:28.340 Pastor Renee Rouse: having a hard time instead of walking away. Just say, can I help make a difference? You will put here to make a difference. Go about doing that today? Started today.

00:41:28.410 --> 00:41:51.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No, you matter, thank you. Thank you so much, Reverend Renee, for being my guest. Thank you to our listeners. Please don't forget to subscribe and and share the show with other people. Stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam Leibowitz, where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of ease and joy. Be well, be safe until next time. Bye, for now.

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