Fridays 12:00pm - 1:00pm (EDT)
Understand how work and life experiences can contribute to better service.
This week’s guest is Rod Biermann, a colleague of mine at the law firm of Offit Kurman. Rod practices in the field of Labor & Employment Law, but is also a former actor. We will discuss how experiences in other careers and other aspects of life inform and equip entrepreneurs and service-providers in their present endeavors. We’ll also take a look at issues of ownership of documents, graphics, processes, and other intangibles between employers and their personnel.
00:00:42.230 --> 00:00:49.380 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: hi there, I'm Matthew as well and welcome to in tangible. This is my inaugural webcast.
00:00:49.410 --> 00:00:58.970 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: where we discuss the intangible aspects of business. It's often the intangible aspects of business. That is what makes them successful.
00:00:59.080 --> 00:01:07.840 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and there are many different aspects of what's intangible that can that can be helpful to the business. My particular area
00:01:07.850 --> 00:01:24.580 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: is intellectual property law, where I talk about the rights and and the things that people create in their businesses. But other aspects are personnel, and and the experience of of the of those personnel and the culture of the business
00:01:24.790 --> 00:01:38.930 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: or digital assets, data formulations, the pros, the art, the music, the designs, the processes, all different aspects of business, can be intangible, and often this is really what makes a business successful.
00:01:39.950 --> 00:01:51.480 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So in this program we'll talk about how people obtain the and create. retain, and maintain, and even transfer in tangible aspects of their business.
00:01:52.820 --> 00:02:10.080 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I mentioned my name is Matthew as well. I'm an intellectual property lawyer, and that's really the law of creation. So my area of practice deals with what people make, whether it's expressive art or music or pros. They write, or if they create new inventions or designs.
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:23.970 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: they have brand names. They have ways in which they're found on the Internet. All of these are the areas in which in which I practice, I also serve as a professor at at Fordam and Cardoso law schools.
00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:30.860 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and and I frequently mentor entrepreneurs, young lawyers and students through various organizations.
00:02:31.810 --> 00:02:42.480 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: My interest is really about languages, and speaking to people in the language that they understand, and it often requires you to transform. You know how you convey something.
00:02:44.530 --> 00:02:46.000 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Today's topic
00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:55.300 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: is bringing experience to beerman. It's bringing experience to Beerman because my guest is Rod Bierman from the law firm of offered Kerman.
00:02:56.370 --> 00:02:57.160 and
00:02:57.710 --> 00:03:04.800 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: you know, before I introduce Rod, I want to tell you a little bit more about myself, because it will relate to what what Rod's experience is
00:03:05.740 --> 00:03:14.800 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: prior to becoming a lawyer I lived in. I lived many other lives. some of those lives included. I attended medical school.
00:03:15.030 --> 00:03:18.370 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I taught proprietary software.
00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:22.510 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and I managed singer-songwriters and recording artists for about 10 years.
00:03:23.540 --> 00:03:30.670 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I even waited tables at 1 point and somehow all of those different experiences and skills
00:03:30.860 --> 00:03:40.260 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: they They came together in what I do now. I use them. I refer to them, and I remember them and the people i'm speaking to
00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:43.590 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: understand their perspectives, and
00:03:43.630 --> 00:03:50.220 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I use some of the skills I learned in those different careers and those different experiences towards my legal practice.
00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:56.930 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So you know, having different life experiences can really be about
00:03:57.930 --> 00:04:02.340 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: having applicability, even when it seems unrelated.
00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:06.810 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: it having applicability to your current business or your current practice.
00:04:07.160 --> 00:04:20.550 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and and for this reason I I've asked my colleague Rod to join us, and and that's because Rod is, you know what he'll tell you a little bit about his his career path. But formerly he was an actor.
00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:32.860 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and and we're really going to talk about at least 3 examples of how he, as an actor, had different experiences, and how they apply in his law practice. Today
00:04:33.790 --> 00:04:37.660 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: those are particularly how he dealt with character studies.
00:04:37.670 --> 00:04:44.950 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: auditioning, and being in the spotlight, all of which are things he uses. Our goal is really to help our listeners
00:04:45.110 --> 00:04:49.660 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: think about the application of seemingly different life experiences to their business.
00:04:49.890 --> 00:04:59.690 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So with that i'd like to welcome Rod Berman and Rod. Could you please introduce us to you by telling us a little bit about your your current and your your former professions.
00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:09.250 rbiermann: sure. So I was an actor in Los Angeles, out in Hollywood for a number of years, about 11 years.
00:05:09.410 --> 00:05:11.730 rbiermann: and
00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:23.330 rbiermann: prior to coming to law school I I was very involved in doing that, and then, and decided to go to law school, and became shortly there after an employment lawyer.
00:05:23.450 --> 00:05:26.240 rbiermann: And so right now, what I do is I
00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:37.750 rbiermann: i'm an employment lawyer who works with companies, and there's really 3 areas of of work that I do. My primary work is with companies. I also do what's called executive compensation.
00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:57.120 rbiermann: so I help executives who are exiting business or entering business, and negotiate their contracts as an exit, negotiate their their their contracts when or their severance packages when they leave, and then contracts from the enter; and I also do sexual harassment prevention training, which here in
00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:05.990 rbiermann: New York is a mandatory requirement for all companies, whether you have one employee or 1,000 employees.
00:06:06.170 --> 00:06:14.340 rbiermann: So and it's it's started in 2,018 to be mandatory, and I've been doing it for many years prior to that. But then.
00:06:14.870 --> 00:06:28.360 rbiermann: since 2,018. It's really been a a a nice, not it's. You know it. It's really important, actually service that I provide. I think so. Those are the 3 areas of of my practice currently.
00:06:29.770 --> 00:06:47.450 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So, it seems to be a long way to go in some senses to go from, you know, acting in television movies to to being a labor and employment lawyer, though I can certainly see the parallels, at least for the sexual harassment training. I don't know how many, how many people in the audience have done sexual harassment training.
00:06:47.450 --> 00:06:54.870 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: And you know you you watch a lot of videos with actors all the time, so I guess it's sort of ties in, but it seems like a long way
00:06:55.180 --> 00:07:07.980 rbiermann: it does it. It was, you know. It was a very, very hard transition. There were many, and we could. But obviously we'll talk about some of those later. But there are many aspects of it that we're transferable, but going from a
00:07:08.140 --> 00:07:18.340 rbiermann: from a field of practice where you're taught not to think, but to feel. to a practice where you're taught, not to feel, but to think so it was
00:07:18.350 --> 00:07:31.690 rbiermann: it was. It was a very, very rough and and and plus I. When I went to law school I had 2 young kids. So it the whole process was very, very arduous, but well worth the with the the effort for sure
00:07:32.830 --> 00:07:36.070 to tell us how you got started in the entertainment business.
00:07:36.410 --> 00:07:43.430 rbiermann: Well, I was pre met in college, and I had been swamped with with chemistry and biology classes, and
00:07:43.450 --> 00:07:49.100 rbiermann: and and generally some sort of math mathematics class. When I took a semester it for you
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:57.490 rbiermann: was going to take the cats to go and kind of see what else is out there academically, and I took an acting class.
00:07:57.630 --> 00:08:02.720 rbiermann: and all of a sudden realized that this is what I wanted to do.
00:08:02.770 --> 00:08:13.110 rbiermann: So I had to have a very interesting conversation with my parents telling him that I wasn't going to go to Med school, that I was gonna go out to Los Angeles and be an actor.
00:08:13.210 --> 00:08:32.730 rbiermann: That was that was an interesting conversation. I said a series of conversations, but once they realize that I was serious, that I wasn't just hey, you know, trying to get an extended vacation of some sort. They were all for it, and they they supported me, and I couldn't have done it without their sort of moral moral support.
00:08:33.070 --> 00:08:43.919 rbiermann: so packed up my bags a week after graduation drove out to Los Angeles. I I knew my parents knew one person who had lived there who lived there currently.
00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:49.940 rbiermann: and was able to. I stayed in a room of her house and started my journey.
00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:56.450 rbiermann: And it was. It was quite an interesting and incredibly fun experience. For sure.
00:08:57.270 --> 00:09:00.870 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I can definitely relate to that, as
00:09:00.880 --> 00:09:14.280 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: as my my mother is, is still working as a as a physician, and was so excited and proud when I was in med school, and when I when I told her I was leaving Med school to manage recording artists.
00:09:14.410 --> 00:09:24.580 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I I I I think, a little a little bit of her dive. She's listening to this conversation, so she so you know i'm sure she would deny that. But in any case.
00:09:24.660 --> 00:09:34.560 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but it sounds awfully glamorous, you know, so you know I don't know. I want to fast forward and ask you like. Why would you? Why would you leave such a such a profession?
00:09:34.620 --> 00:09:44.180 rbiermann: Well, so just really quickly. When I, When I went out to Los Angeles I was very fortunate to, you know, come across this manager who was legitimate.
00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:50.660 rbiermann: She she was able to get me a commercial agent. I'd started doing commercials did about 10 or 15 commercials
00:09:51.010 --> 00:09:54.250 rbiermann: that commercial agent was
00:09:54.310 --> 00:10:10.650 rbiermann: worked within a larger agency that also manage talent. So they ended up managing, I mean, you know, signed me on as a talent for for acting, and I did small roles, tiny little things here and there, and one thing led to another. I started doing guest spots on TV,
00:10:11.220 --> 00:10:18.730 rbiermann: and that's when independent films were really big around that time, and so I did a number of independent films that never saw the light of day.
00:10:18.820 --> 00:10:37.860 rbiermann: But then I got into larger movies and it started, and I think my to the probably the 2 biggest movies that that people may or may not remember is one called the Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle, with Robert de Niro, Renab R. So Jason, Alexander Jonathan Winters, a number of of of individuals, and was produced by Robert de Niro.
00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:42.400 rbiermann: and then after that that movie called Pearl Harbor, which was with Ben Affleck, and
00:10:42.490 --> 00:10:54.760 rbiermann: and you know, they directed by Michael Bay this big Pearl Harbor big, you know. Action, sweeping action, epic kind of movie. And that was incredible.
00:10:55.100 --> 00:11:02.320 rbiermann: really, really a lot of fun. So but I had 2 kids, 2 young babies and a wife.
00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:12.390 rbiermann: And I started realizing that I had about 10% input into whether I worked or not, right? So I, you know, in order to get a job. You have to go through
00:11:12.400 --> 00:11:15.880 rbiermann: directors, casting agents, producers, riders.
00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:31.110 rbiermann: you know, lawyers, managers, agents, there were all these people that were involved in. You know, any particular role that I achieved, and so I realized that you know I could go in, and whether it was a meeting or an audition, and knock it out of the park.
00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:34.910 rbiermann: but at the end of the day it wasn't up to me, and so
00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:43.480 rbiermann: the idea of not having any control over my own destiny really was a bit unnerving when it wasn't just me.
00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:45.640 rbiermann: So.
00:11:46.470 --> 00:12:00.130 rbiermann: So I decided to figure out what what, what can I do to I I I knew how to rough that transition was for me to get into entertainment business. What can I do that has some similarities, so I do. I'm not just starting over completely.
00:12:00.140 --> 00:12:11.530 rbiermann: My mother, my mother in law, was a judge at the time. My father in law was a civil rights attorney. and still they, you know, still are. So he still is, and she's a lawyer, now retired, but
00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:30.860 rbiermann: and getting to know my wife and marrying her, and and you know the the extended family. I realized that I could be a lawyer, and in specific I could be a litigator and use a lot of the skills that I had gained through the entertainment business and and use them as a litigator.
00:12:30.860 --> 00:12:34.430 rbiermann: So that's really why I changed.
00:12:34.590 --> 00:12:47.770 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I'll tell you just a real quick anecdote to give you another perspective
00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:55.300 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: for a break. But coming up, we're going to talk about Rod's experiences as an actor, doing character, studies, auditioning and being in the spotlight.
00:12:55.380 --> 00:13:00.240 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and the application of those experiences to his day to day practice of law. We'll be right back.
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00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:44.350 You're listening to talk radio, Nyc: uplift, educate in power
00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:46.800 the
00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:55.920 the
00:15:03.820 --> 00:15:04.510 you
00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:07.550 to
00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:19.280 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: welcome back to intangify.
00:15:19.490 --> 00:15:38.430 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So my guest is Rod Bierman, and we've been talking about bringing experiments to bear or to Beerman and Rod. You know, as we were talking in our in our last segment, you you started to say that you had some interesting anecdotes. You wanted to share about your your acting career. So let's let's go back to that
00:15:38.430 --> 00:15:44.480 rbiermann: sure. So what I was thinking of first is that you know, when I was thinking about leaving it's one of those
00:15:44.760 --> 00:15:55.960 rbiermann: situations where you, for example, if you want to buy a white car, you you want to buy it because nobody else has white cars that you know, and then you get on the road, and all you see is white cars.
00:15:56.070 --> 00:15:59.160 rbiermann: So you know I started thinking about
00:15:59.270 --> 00:16:13.300 rbiermann: leaving, and once I started thinking about leaving. I started seeing things differently, you know, and I I done a soap opera for Cbs for for a little while, and then some shows for Cbs in addition to Cbs for a long time, and Cbs had this
00:16:13.300 --> 00:16:27.640 rbiermann: casting offices time where they had it kind of administrated, for you know, Secretary of office, up front and along the hallway, back to the casting offices, and i'd walk that hallway. Probably I don't know 50 times, and this time
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:38.100 rbiermann: I started walking down the hallway and realized that they had posters of all their famous shows. That shows that they considered to be their top shows. And I remember looking at these posters and saying.
00:16:38.670 --> 00:16:46.930 rbiermann: Really, for the first time. I remember that show. But where are all these people? I remember that show where all these people.
00:16:46.970 --> 00:16:56.860 rbiermann: and I realized that you could have a show that Cbs consider to be one of the top shows that they've ever done and never work again. And so those are the kind of things that
00:16:57.430 --> 00:17:13.470 rbiermann: I started, you know, realizing, and really even lit a fire under my desire to to leave and pursue a different career, because there were no guarantees at all, and but you know, in terms of anecdotes in an in the entertainment business.
00:17:13.470 --> 00:17:24.900 rbiermann: I guess the one that comes to mind is when I did Pearl Harbor. I got to know Jerry Bruckheimer fairly well. Jerry Brooklyn is very soft, spoken incredibly smart.
00:17:25.040 --> 00:17:27.220 rbiermann: but it unbelievably driven.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:33.910 rbiermann: And so we're off the coast on a nuclear aircraft called the Uss status.
00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:38.100 rbiermann: and we're there first of all, because
00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:53.640 rbiermann: Jerry and Michael they wanted to watch these super hornets when and take off the aircraft carrier. So we're all there, you know, hand handful of us sort of. They're watching these, you know. Jets, take, you know. Come on and off the aircraft carrier, and then
00:17:54.050 --> 00:17:57.700 rbiermann: they flew in these b 25 bombers, which were for the actual
00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:01.290 rbiermann: footage, and so.
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:12.420 rbiermann: anyways, they they're setting up, and they they've lit this, and every set is lit incredibly generally, and I see Jerry and he's out there taking pictures of all this of the bombers of the aircraft car. And he
00:18:12.510 --> 00:18:20.460 rbiermann: and I thought, oh, that's kind of nice, you know. I'm he's, you know, memorializing this big movie for himself or whatever.
00:18:20.800 --> 00:18:22.900 rbiermann: And about.
00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:36.170 rbiermann: you know, maybe a month before the movie comes out, i'm at Barnes and Nobles and I look down, and you know they have, that they used to have this table, that with all their boat books that they're showcasing for them for the time. And here is this leather bound
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:42.320 rbiermann: thick book of, and it says Pearl Harbor photographs from the set by Jerry Bruckheimer.
00:18:43.530 --> 00:19:01.610 rbiermann: I was saying to myself, this guy is more money than God. He's incredibly busy. But he's thinking, you know what i'm going to take a bunch of pictures, and i'm gonna stick him in a book in charts, and it was like it was like a $400 book, George. 400 bucks, and, you know, may make some additional money on the side. I mean this is. But you know
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:09.510 rbiermann: it was just bizarre, I mean. But that's that's his mind, you know. Not never to waste an opportunity, I guess.
00:19:11.030 --> 00:19:23.360 rbiermann: But you know, anyway, so so I've got a 1 million sort of celebrity encounters and and those kind of things that that I could tell you about. But that's the one that kind of comes to mind that is so unique. And I think.
00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:27.410 rbiermann: and yet, you know, he had certainly had a reputation of being a
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.360 rbiermann: hell razor when he was younger. But he was just a smart guy, and really mild mannered.
00:19:32.370 --> 00:19:35.980 rbiermann: you know, had some really really wonderful conversations with them.
00:19:36.990 --> 00:19:50.320 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: It sounds like he was really just anticipating social media. I mean, you know the people at our firm are always like oh, don't forget to take a picture when you, when you give that speech, and I inevitably always forget.
00:19:50.320 --> 00:20:01.660 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: But but but you know that's what we're supposed to be doing these days, you know, you know, whatever it is, take the picture of it posted on social media. It's gonna be some. No clicks or right right? Right? Right?
00:20:01.990 --> 00:20:10.600 rbiermann: Yeah, absolutely. And, as I said, film sets are always lit incredibly so it this this photograph almost make, you know it takes itself.
00:20:10.770 --> 00:20:20.510 rbiermann: but not to take anything away from his photography skills. I'm sure they would. They were, you know. Wonderful, but that just this is interesting, interesting thing that to find out about him.
00:20:21.140 --> 00:20:29.560 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Well, I wasn't planning on hiring him for my, you know upcoming permits, you know i'm kidding. So, so, Rod, you know
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:39.060 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: we we I think you know we've come up with. You mentioned several examples of how your your acting career has impacted your your practice.
00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:45.100 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I think i'm about this need, so we'll see it hopefully. If that's not gonna happen, we'll see what happens here.
00:20:45.210 --> 00:21:07.700 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: But I I think one of them, you know, and it's funny, because you know, just prior to to the start of of the podcast this afternoon. You and I were even talking about, like, you know, looking at the camera and the struggles to look at the camera on your laptop, right? The camera, instead of the person like these are sort of these types of skills that you would think an actor. You know that sort of the kind of thing they they
00:21:07.700 --> 00:21:18.840 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: they they know how to do. I think we were talking about the example of Rocky and bullwinkle, where you you know it's part live and part animated, and you got to to the character that's over here, even though there's nobody there
00:21:19.610 --> 00:21:35.780 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but you mentioned some some other nice examples that I think you know apply really well in in your in your life and in your practice, and I think one of them was character studies, so I wanted to know. Understand. What's a character study. What are you talking about?
00:21:35.780 --> 00:21:45.100 rbiermann: So you know, when I started to learn what it meant to become an actor. I did a number of things to familiarize myself with the business.
00:21:45.120 --> 00:21:46.900 rbiermann: one of which
00:21:46.910 --> 00:21:55.980 rbiermann: probably the most key component is learning what it means to act right. My one acting class in in college did not prepare me to.
00:21:56.010 --> 00:22:14.440 rbiermann: you know. Take take the world by storm, or or take Hollywood by storm for sure. So I I got into a a method class which is a a type of acting where it's a lot of internalization, and you know that I could tell you all about it. But it would take much too much time, and and it's a different podcast. But
00:22:15.030 --> 00:22:22.730 rbiermann: but you really look at characters, the characters who you're gonna play, and and i'll give you a perfect example. I played a
00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:34.200 rbiermann: for a lack of a a better word. It was an Nbc. Movie of the week back when they had movies of the week, and and I played a preppy rapist. Okay?
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:42.950 rbiermann: So which was I had not I. I was dating my wife at the to my soon to be wife at the time, and had not met my mother in law, and my my
00:22:43.320 --> 00:22:49.810 rbiermann: soon to be wife said, hey, Rod's going to be on TV, You know. This is the kind of dating, you know. It's just like
00:22:50.200 --> 00:23:01.560 rbiermann: I. I I could not get over that for the longest time, and overcome it to try to over compensate for that when I met her. But anyways that wasn't me, obviously. And
00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:09.580 rbiermann: so you have to figure out when you play characters, especially characters. You don't like, or or may not be like a bull.
00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:15.890 rbiermann: What makes them tick? Why do they do the things that they do? What's their motivation?
00:23:16.230 --> 00:23:26.990 rbiermann: Because they think it's normal or they think it's that's okay, or it's acceptable, or whatever their mindset is, get into the head of the the character and figure out.
00:23:27.410 --> 00:23:31.290 rbiermann: You know what their perspective is on life and and all that kind of stuff.
00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:32.590 rbiermann: right? So
00:23:33.550 --> 00:23:37.210 rbiermann: what I found was that method of.
00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:39.010 rbiermann: you know.
00:23:39.300 --> 00:23:47.220 rbiermann: figuring out the other side. The other thing the other person became very, very intangible with negotiations. Right
00:23:47.580 --> 00:24:02.940 rbiermann: so part of my practices, as I said, I negotiate settlement packages, negotiate contracts when they're entering the employment and defending lo, defending lawsuits that are brought by. You know individuals against companies.
00:24:03.490 --> 00:24:06.200 rbiermann: and oftentimes, you know.
00:24:06.230 --> 00:24:07.620 rbiermann: cases will settle
00:24:08.730 --> 00:24:21.030 rbiermann: so in the negotiations, whether it's severance packages or or or lawsuits, I always try to figure out what? Where is the other side coming from? What's their point of view? What are they trying to achieve.
00:24:21.650 --> 00:24:23.880 rbiermann: and how can I get
00:24:24.350 --> 00:24:41.880 rbiermann: so get there with them while still being in the zealous advocate for my my my client, right so, and a lot of people don't approach it that way. A lot of people say i'm going to be a bulldog, and i'm gonna i'm gonna demand this. And i'm going to demand that. And and you know oftentimes those kind of negotiations don't go anywhere.
00:24:43.050 --> 00:24:45.920 rbiermann: and people confuse, being a zeal for your client
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:53.480 rbiermann: that you you know that you have to be a bulldog, and it's not the case. You can still be a zealous advocate.
00:24:53.630 --> 00:24:59.470 rbiermann: but, understanding what the other side wants or their perspective will help you
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:10.490 rbiermann: get get to a middle ground, you know. Get to a place where things can settle, and part of that is talking to your clients and having helping them understand it.
00:25:10.590 --> 00:25:19.450 rbiermann: But in the first instance that's always what I do. I look at the other side from the other side's perspective, and it. I think it really benefits those negotiations.
00:25:20.110 --> 00:25:26.000 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: It's pretty funny, I think, because in the in the first, in our first segment, when you're talking a little bit about
00:25:26.030 --> 00:25:33.830 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: the transition from actor to to lawyer. You you said you know you were.
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:41.690 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: You were taught to. What was it? Feel, Don't think? And then you're gonna take a job where we're where, and then you have to think, Don't feel. and I think
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:55.090 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: your your description of how character studies applies to to law is essentially well. No, it's not really think Don't feel it. It's actually i'm going to use some of that feel. And and you know, I mean
00:25:55.660 --> 00:26:00.770 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: in working with clients, You know I, An important part of
00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:18.570 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: client communication is about empathy, right? We need to empathize with those clients and understand where they're coming from, and their motivations and their goals. And when you have an adversary, I think similarly, being able to put yourself in their shoes without giving in whatever necessarily they they want.
00:26:18.700 --> 00:26:30.430 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but putting yourself into their shoes to understand what drives them, it makes a lot of sense. It it helps, you know what the thing to offer that's going to get the thing that you need for your client is right.
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:32.730 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: so that makes a lot of sense to me.
00:26:34.100 --> 00:26:37.620 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So we are.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:48.150 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: We're about to go on another another break. So I think, when we come back for the third segment, i'm going to ask you a little bit about a auditioning and about being in the spotlight.
00:26:48.220 --> 00:26:57.600 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: But for now let me say that we'll go and break. You've been listening to and tang. If I on talk review, Dot Nyc.
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:09.320 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So coming up, we'll talk about Rod's experiences in the actor dealing with auditioning and being in the spotlight, and the application of that experience is day to day practice of law.
00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:25.860 Are you passionate about the conversation around racism? Hi I'm, Reverend Dr. Tlc. Host of the disnatural racism show which airs every Thursday at 11 a. M. Eastern on talk, Radio and Nyc
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00:27:41.010 --> 00:28:08.860 In at the moment you may have many unanswered questions regarding your health. Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle? Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health, and enhance your quality of life? Or do you just want to participate in self-understanding and awareness? I'm. Frank R. Harrison, host of Frank about health and each Thursday? I will tackle these questions and work to enlighten you. Tune in every Thursday 5 P. M. On talk radio and Nyc. And I will be frank about help to advocate for all of us.
00:28:14.100 --> 00:28:38.200 Hey, everybody! It's Tommy D, the nonprofit sector connector coming at you from my adding each week here on talk, radio and Ny: Z. I hosted program a lamb of main focus nonprofits in cocktails each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen each week at 10 a. M. Eastern standard time until 11 a. M. Is from standing time right here on talk radio, Dot: Nyc.
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:49.670 You're listening to talk radio and Yc: at Www: Talk radio, live scene now broadcasting 24 hours a day.
00:28:49.790 --> 00:28:51.150 You
00:29:00.860 --> 00:29:01.530 me
00:29:11.370 --> 00:29:28.320 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: welcome back to in tangible on talk radio that Nyc: my guest is Rod Bierman from the law firm of offered in Co. Off at Kerman, where he practices labor and employment law. But in another life he was an actor, and we were to. We've been talking about how those experiences as an actor
00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:40.720 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: really lend themselves to his practice neighborhood employment. But the idea, as it is an intensified to think about how that might work in helping you with your business, supplying your prior prior experiences.
00:29:40.730 --> 00:29:46.980 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: even though they may seem unrelated to your actual practice and and business.
00:29:47.190 --> 00:29:49.410 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So, Rod, when we were
00:29:50.020 --> 00:30:08.630 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: when we were last speaking, you talked a little bit about character studies, but something else. You started to talk about earlier was about this experience you had at Cbs waiting in line or walking down the halls as you were preparing for it for a soap opera that you were participating in acting in.
00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:14.610 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: And you were talking about, You know, kind of going up and down those halls and the picture in my head is, I was, you know.
00:30:14.710 --> 00:30:31.520 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: thinking of you walking down the halls and Cbs what what was maybe you're waiting in line in those halls to to audition. I was. I was picturing all these people just in front of you, and you're pacing up and down this hall. I probably not really accurate, but
00:30:31.520 --> 00:30:40.090 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but but envisioning what it must have been like, you know, to audition. I've seen some auditions, and I gotta say like.
00:30:40.510 --> 00:30:42.730 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: like I don't know how you do that, but
00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:49.960 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: tell us what auditions like auditioning is like, and how frequently you had to do it. Give us a sense of.
00:30:50.050 --> 00:30:50.880 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: You know
00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:57.210 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: the amount of rejection you had to face. And then how does that experience apply to your your law practice?
00:30:59.350 --> 00:31:00.350 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: You're muted?
00:31:00.610 --> 00:31:13.130 rbiermann: Yeah. So you know it's funny how you put it! How many times you had to do it? I mean you. Is it after you dying for auditions? Right? Because it's the entry way to to work. So you know, you wanted to have a lot of auditions.
00:31:13.130 --> 00:31:25.540 rbiermann: and and the audition process varies. The audition process can be as simple as a meeting with somebody at a restaurant. It can be also, you know, auditioning in front of 50 people.
00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:33.010 rbiermann: And so you know, the the process is again when it, when I quickly realized that I had very little
00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:41.110 rbiermann: say in it. All I could do is go in and do my best, and and the chips would fall where they make
00:31:41.740 --> 00:31:47.870 rbiermann: it. It can be. It can be nerve racking, especially when there's a lot of
00:31:48.160 --> 00:32:00.340 rbiermann: money on the line or a bit, you know, big part on the line. I remember I was auditioning for a a new television show to be one of the regulars. and I was at Fox, and
00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:13.120 rbiermann: the most bizarre thing happened to me, and I addition probably 5 or 6 different times for this role. All you know. Each time it was more and more and more people, and I was about to go into a room with all the
00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:20.850 rbiermann: fox TV execs and all their underlings, and you know it was going to be about 50 people
00:32:21.870 --> 00:32:28.690 rbiermann: to do this. You know this scene that I've been doing for now? Probably. Did you know 5 or 6 other times.
00:32:29.520 --> 00:32:31.370 rbiermann: and their account, and came up to me.
00:32:32.650 --> 00:32:39.740 rbiermann: and he said, I need you to. I need you to look over this paperwork, I mean. I'm sitting in the chair of how to go in. Because I I want you to look over this paperwork.
00:32:39.930 --> 00:32:50.960 rbiermann: and i'm kind of like. Why, he said, Well, this is this is the contract. I need you to sign the contract. So you know, if we decide to go with you, you'll be we'll have you. We have you now.
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.670 rbiermann: because what they didn't want is me to go in.
00:32:53.760 --> 00:33:05.460 rbiermann: you know whoever to go in. Still it. Have everybody go crazy for them, and now they hold them hostage and say, Well, i'm not gonna do it for X. I want to do it from 4 X. I've got you. I've got the leverage, so they get you before the audition.
00:33:05.830 --> 00:33:12.730 rbiermann: I said, You mean on this piece of paper you're gonna i'm gonna sign, and i'm gonna see how much you're gonna pay me if I do well in this audition.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:18.650 rbiermann: And he kind of looked at me strange, and I said he said, yeah, I guess so, I said. I don't want to see it.
00:33:19.130 --> 00:33:28.060 rbiermann: I said. Give it. This is kind of you know, not a great business, for I said, give me the newspaper. I'm signing it. I'm not looking at it. You said you don't want to look at it. I said, absolutely not.
00:33:28.390 --> 00:33:35.860 rbiermann: What's the last thing I want to do is look at something to say you're going to be paid X amount of dollars. If you do well in this audition I don't need the additional pressure. you know.
00:33:36.300 --> 00:33:41.730 rbiermann: But anyway, so the thing that they're auditioning really help me with
00:33:41.770 --> 00:33:47.300 rbiermann: you know it's not only dealing with the nerves and all that kind of stuff. But
00:33:47.780 --> 00:33:50.820 rbiermann: you realize that you're going in there to convince
00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:55.280 rbiermann: a group, a person, or a group of people that you are right for something.
00:33:55.860 --> 00:34:08.690 rbiermann: and you have to convey that message to them. You have to communicate. That message to them, however, is you have to get them interested in what you're doing and saying and believing what you're doing and saying, and
00:34:09.469 --> 00:34:12.480 rbiermann: you want them to be on your side right?
00:34:12.989 --> 00:34:18.159 rbiermann: And I realized that that that mentality applied to
00:34:18.750 --> 00:34:21.230 rbiermann: when I was when it as an attorney.
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:34.780 rbiermann: What a judge, you know, arguing in front of a judge getting the judge to understand, being able to communicate to the judge what I'm trying to, you know, say, and have the judge understand it, and and want to be behind my position.
00:34:35.290 --> 00:34:36.780 rbiermann: and also with juries
00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:54.280 rbiermann: right when we would have trial, speaking to juries, conveying those messages to juries just like the the the 50 people in that room, you know, 12 people sitting in a jury box, the same concept being able to to communicate a message, what you wanting them to stay engaged in that message
00:34:54.690 --> 00:35:03.660 rbiermann: and and understanding it, and being, you know, behind you at the end of the day when that when that verdict this is time to to get to the verdict.
00:35:04.940 --> 00:35:07.460 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:35:07.590 --> 00:35:14.920 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: you know. On the other hand, as I think about the way it is, the way I envision you doing it when you're when you were doing an audition.
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:22.790 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: The persuasion that you're that you're doing to try to get them to say, yeah, you're the right, Guy, for that
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:26.240 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: is less verbal. I mean it's verbal in the sense that you have lines to read.
00:35:26.390 --> 00:35:32.310 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but it is more that you need to show them that you're right for the part. Then you need to
00:35:32.700 --> 00:35:35.100 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: tell them that you're right for the part
00:35:35.160 --> 00:35:42.110 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and part of me sort of thinking about sort of drawing conclusions to that I'm trying analogy to that into legal practice.
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:45.980 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Part of that is the same in that
00:35:46.210 --> 00:35:49.540 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: you to be persuasive. You should show rather than tell.
00:35:49.870 --> 00:35:54.330 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: On the other hand, your tools as a lawyer are largely words.
00:35:54.420 --> 00:36:02.700 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: so I I I sort of struggle with Essentially you are telling them. Why, your your why, you know
00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:05.320 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: you know they should listen to you, and
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:16.900 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and that that seems less persuasive. I i'm sure that you're using the audition skills, you add. You probably apply more of the show versus the tell
00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:21.230 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: concept. But I I I'd love to hear what you have to say about that
00:36:21.790 --> 00:36:23.580 rbiermann: I mean, yeah, I I see that
00:36:25.230 --> 00:36:38.160 rbiermann: you know. One of the things that I I learned pretty early on is that people want. You know those those folks in the room wanted to find the right person. They wanted to be excited. They wanted to be engaged.
00:36:38.270 --> 00:36:43.780 rbiermann: you know. The casting people wanted to be excited that they found somebody in one, you know.
00:36:43.900 --> 00:36:50.790 rbiermann: and one of the ways that you can do that is, you want to strip away their ability to have to try to imagine
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:56.200 rbiermann: you as this person right? So you go in dressed as
00:36:56.270 --> 00:36:57.170 rbiermann: the person
00:36:57.220 --> 00:37:09.250 rbiermann: as simple as that may sound. So immediately they look at you and go. Oh, okay, I think he's he's the right guy. I could see him playing this person, you know, so you know you wouldn't want to show up.
00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:18.920 rbiermann: you know, for your first day in trial in a T-shirt and jeans. you know. But looking to part is part of the part of the
00:37:18.940 --> 00:37:25.770 rbiermann: process, whether it's, you know, speaking to a jury or a judge. or meeting a client, even.
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:28.340 rbiermann: you know.
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:44.220 rbiermann: But it yeah for for auditioning. You wanted to be able to go in and really show them you. You're the part. Be able to read the lines, be able to convince them that they're your your guy and realize that they want to be convinced. They want to find they want to, you know, be engaged.
00:37:44.260 --> 00:37:48.150 rbiermann: They want to have all those things all those, you know.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:38:04.800 rbiermann: those things being triggered so they can get excited about what they're doing, and they can, you know, tell the folks that they need to tell that they found somebody, you know. In the same way a jury wants to be able to get in that jury room and said I, you know, and talk to one another and say, yeah, I believed him. I believed what he said. I understood it.
00:38:04.820 --> 00:38:10.730 rbiermann: and you know I I want to. I want to back this position that that he's taking.
00:38:11.860 --> 00:38:16.700 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Yeah, I mean, I I gotta say, though, I don't know in the Post Covid world
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:20.510 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: looking the part, but like actually looking the part.
00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:28.500 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I'm. Not so sure that that has as much validity as it used to. But I also believe that you know
00:38:28.970 --> 00:38:47.090 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: you don't just look the part, and it's not just the words you speak it's how you speak them, you know, and and that i'm sure is a skill that you that you know that you learn as an actor in in terms of being persuasive, right in terms of in yeah meeting the
00:38:47.550 --> 00:39:00.330 rbiermann: it was. It's intangible. I mean you. You know you'd be surprised how many lawyers are, You know. I've I've done a lot of public speaking at the New York city bar, for example, i'm do. And
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:14.230 rbiermann: and he was a professor certainly know that that there are people who just do not understand what means to communicate. And so you know it's when you have that skill. When you understand that it's important.
00:39:14.740 --> 00:39:19.180 rbiermann: you know it. It. It makes it makes your job so much easier.
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:20.540 rbiermann: It really does.
00:39:21.500 --> 00:39:34.590 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So you know just I. I I guess I have to put this out there. I want it to ring a bell like when you said, intangible. I feel like any time I hear the word intangible now on this show. I'm gonna have to have a little bell, you know. But
00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:42.400 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: But no, that was. That's great. The other thing that you you mentioned in in that discussion a little bit earlier in this discussion
00:39:42.540 --> 00:40:01.390 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: about the accountants coming up to you like right before the audition. And it it was pretty interesting. You Where you went with. That was was quite different from where I thought you were going, but I wanted to to, to to share my vision of of of where I thought you were going, because it might actually be interesting as well.
00:40:01.490 --> 00:40:06.890 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: which is that you know a lot of what we do is about communication
00:40:07.070 --> 00:40:17.610 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: and and the timing of communication, and it could mean it could mean the difference between you know, getting what you want and not
00:40:17.690 --> 00:40:29.690 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: You know. The other day, when, when when you know I was really hoping to come, talk to you. You know about the podcast, about potential client matter that we were talking about, and
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.760 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: whatever like I could sense
00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:41.210 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: the amount that was going on on your on your plate at the time, and there was no way. I was coming into your office right at that moment
00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:58.040 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: to talk to you about stuff that I knew could could weigh. That was not urgent, etc. But you know, you know, people don't people don't always respect that, or else people try to try to use that. I mean, it's interesting. I I was. I was sort of joking during the break, but you know, like
00:40:58.040 --> 00:41:10.590 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: the program started, and i'm live, and i'm getting text messages and calls from from people asking how to lock onto the show. I'm like, you know now is not exactly the best time to be
00:41:10.590 --> 00:41:21.470 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: so. I I think that you know it's worth pointing out right an awareness of the recipient of your communication. The accountant clearly did not have that or was using it
00:41:21.660 --> 00:41:25.910 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: intentionally. And sometimes you do that in legal practice.
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:39.940 rbiermann: Yeah, he was definitely not. He. He was definitely not using it intentionally. I don't think he was thinking about it at all, and it was totally top caught off guard when I said I would sign it. I didn't want to look at it. You know it just thought Well, this is an idiot actor
00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:46.710 rbiermann: who you know it's just doesn't care about that time. Really cared. But I, you know. Now, now is not the time.
00:41:47.600 --> 00:41:48.660 rbiermann: Yeah. So
00:41:48.700 --> 00:41:55.650 rbiermann: and you and you bought the Brooklyn Bridge. So that's that's good.
00:41:55.940 --> 00:41:58.310 rbiermann: Oh, awesome. Yeah.
00:41:59.700 --> 00:42:01.100 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: cool. Well.
00:42:01.370 --> 00:42:12.320 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I I think we are getting ready for another another break. So let me say that you know you've been listening to in tangible on talk radio, Dot Nyc.
00:42:12.590 --> 00:42:17.600 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: And and coming up, Rod and I will talk a little bit about being in the spotlight.
00:42:17.660 --> 00:42:26.680 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: And then, after that, a little discussion about the things people create in in the employment context.
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.140 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: So we'll be back. Look forward to seeing you afterwards.
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:58.570 Everybody it's Tommy gee the non-profit sector connector coming at you from my attic each week here on talk radio and Nyc: I hosted program the lab of game focus non-profits in cocktails each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen: Each week at 10 a. M. Eastern standard time until 11 a. M. Is from standing time right here on talk radio, Dot Nyc.
00:42:59.390 --> 00:43:27.200 In at the moment world, you may have many unanswered questions regarding your health. Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle. Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health and enhance your quality of life? Or do you just want to participate in self-understanding and awareness. I'm. Frank R. Harrison, host of Frank about health and each thursday I will tackle these questions and work to enlighten you tune in every 3 day. 5 P. M. On talk radio and Nyc. And I will be frank about help to advocate for all. Of us.
00:43:30.730 --> 00:44:01.020 Are you a conscious co-creator. Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness? I'm Sam Leibowitz, your conscious consultant, and on my show the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity, we will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen. Live at our new time on Thursdays, at 12, noon, Eastern time. That's the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. Thursday's 12 noon on talk radio and Nyc.
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:15.340 You're listening to talk radio, Nyc: at Ww: Talk radio and Yc: now broadcasting 24 h a day.
00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:26.370 you
00:44:28.780 --> 00:44:29.400 to
00:44:32.930 --> 00:44:34.240 you.
00:44:37.310 --> 00:44:41.030 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Welcome back to in tang. If I on talk radio.
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:58.940 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: We've been talking about bringing experience to beerman with Rod Bierman. No, he's not a bartender, the beer man. No, he is actually a a lawyer, a labor and employment lawyer, and prior to that he was an actor.
00:44:58.940 --> 00:45:02.800 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: And we've been talking about your experiences, Rod.
00:45:02.850 --> 00:45:22.520 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: as an actor and taking those and applying them in your in your law practice, really for the benefit of our listeners to think about how they're seemingly different. Experiences really might apply in their in their current businesses and current things that they're they're trying to do.
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:34.420 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: You talked a little bit about character studies and about auditioning, wanted to ask you about what it's like being in the spotlight, and how that really impacts you in your legal practice.
00:45:34.510 --> 00:45:41.100 rbiermann: So I think what when we talked about this in the beginning, or you know earlier, what I really mean by that is.
00:45:41.140 --> 00:45:44.260 rbiermann: and it really is a public speaking concept. I think.
00:45:44.300 --> 00:45:46.180 rbiermann: You know we are a lot of people who
00:45:46.380 --> 00:45:59.100 rbiermann: our our reticent to be to, you know, speak in public, whether it's at a dais and a gathering of of you know people who are there to honor somebody, or whether it's.
00:45:59.130 --> 00:46:06.620 rbiermann: You know you are giving a a, a lecturing, a you know, a a a students, or even giving a to stead wedding.
00:46:06.750 --> 00:46:17.040 rbiermann: or even being on a live recorded podcast being on a live recorded podcast. But but what I mean by those examples is that you are the center of attention.
00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:32.360 rbiermann: Right you are. Everybody is looking at you, and oftentimes you you who are nervous in those settings, don't like that kind of attention right? And it's really not about. Excuse me liking or not liking
00:46:32.770 --> 00:46:49.840 rbiermann: that attention. But it's being comfortable with the attention right? And so I mean, I never really like that attention. But you have to understand, to be comfortable with it. Otherwise you're going to shut down. You're not going to be able to execute whatever it is you need to execute, and how this worked in the entertainment business
00:46:49.880 --> 00:47:00.890 rbiermann: what you know, and this is a little bit like what it means to audition, because you know that example I gave you. I was adding in front of 50 people. I mean, that's that's you know, Pretty nerve racking. But
00:47:00.950 --> 00:47:03.050 rbiermann: when you're actually on a set
00:47:03.190 --> 00:47:12.810 rbiermann: and there is a crane with a camera on it. It's that is is going to sweep through whatever it's going to sweep through and then end up right it looking, you know, right at you
00:47:13.270 --> 00:47:14.110 rbiermann: and
00:47:14.120 --> 00:47:22.440 rbiermann: and everybody there, the director, the producers, if they are on set, and you know, 100 to 150 crew Members are all looking to you.
00:47:22.970 --> 00:47:26.270 rbiermann: and I got to tell you something Those crew members
00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:30.150 rbiermann: are wondering how many takes is going to take before they get to go home.
00:47:31.150 --> 00:47:35.040 rbiermann: you know. So it's not not everybody's there rooting for you
00:47:35.140 --> 00:47:53.820 rbiermann: to to do a good job. They're rooting for you to just do it, and and you know so they can. They can either set up for the next shot, and but it's all about. How do we get to the craft table sooner, or, you know, get home quicker. And so you know the directors hopefully, your champion but everybody else is.
00:47:53.820 --> 00:48:00.100 rbiermann: you know. So, looking at the wristwatch and figuring out, you know how much time they're going to be there. So you know
00:48:00.170 --> 00:48:18.010 rbiermann: again, being in situation where you're, you know, in a jury. But I mean you, you, you know, addressing a jury, addressing a judge, or just being in a courtroom, and and you know, talking to a judge, there are people there in the courtroom. We're all looking at you that that are, you know, there, either
00:48:18.080 --> 00:48:20.180 rbiermann: observing or waiting to go on.
00:48:20.370 --> 00:48:35.390 rbiermann: If it's a if it's a setting like a trial. You've got a lot of people that are there. Clients, you know, are looking at you. There is looking to you the judges looking to you. The posing Council looking you. You are the center of attention, whether you like it or not, and
00:48:35.720 --> 00:48:51.260 rbiermann: if you are not comfortable and can't figure out a way to get comfortable in those situations. You're gonna, you know, end up being a different type of lawyer, not not not saying an unsuccessful lawyer. But you could be a you know
00:48:51.480 --> 00:49:09.140 rbiermann: business attorney, or you'd never set foot in a courtroom, and, you know, always working with the team of people. So it it just for me. It was of you know. I understood it. I I got it, and I I've always been very comfortable in those situations, because I had to learn to get comfortable
00:49:09.210 --> 00:49:12.170 rbiermann: as an actor being in the spotlight.
00:49:13.460 --> 00:49:20.790 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Yeah, I I so i'm i'm one of those attorneys who who who really never goes in the courtroom. I deal with some disputes.
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:27.350 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but but I I I don't have to appear live, and you know the the
00:49:27.700 --> 00:49:39.630 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: at least in most instances, and that doesn't come from a discomfort in in sort of being the center of attention for periods of time. I wouldn't be doing a podcast, if
00:49:39.890 --> 00:49:41.150 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: all right.
00:49:41.410 --> 00:49:45.780 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: but rather being able to be
00:49:46.170 --> 00:49:48.230 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: maybe quick enough on my feet
00:49:48.240 --> 00:49:50.840 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: to to
00:49:51.130 --> 00:50:04.000 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: to notice something or catch something or raise something in that live live setting. I like, i'm so like singularly focused on whatever is i'm doing in the moment that
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:16.490 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: it's hard to get things in the periphery. So the idea of, you know, like an attorney. Does, you know, calling out objections to evidence or evidentiary state, you know, or or statements made in the in the courtroom, or stuff
00:50:16.510 --> 00:50:19.910 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: I would be so worried about. Well, the thing that I was trying to.
00:50:20.380 --> 00:50:25.300 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: you know to to say next, to make sure I get that straight, but I might like you know this that
00:50:25.630 --> 00:50:31.880 rbiermann: Well, it's it's it's interesting. You You bring that up because you know
00:50:31.930 --> 00:50:43.720 rbiermann: I took a lot of improv classes, and took a class or 2 at the groundlings, which is this sort of famed la improv studio that produce will far on a bunch of the snl
00:50:43.930 --> 00:50:46.880 rbiermann: current and former players.
00:50:47.200 --> 00:50:50.920 rbiermann: and you know, improv is really about listening
00:50:52.110 --> 00:51:07.280 rbiermann: and thinking on your feet is really about listening. And what happens when you get nervous, or you get concerned about, You know, being in the spotlight, you tend to shut down. You tend not to hear things, and you start getting in your own head.
00:51:07.330 --> 00:51:13.450 rbiermann: which is sort of, you know, the worst thing you could possibly do
00:51:13.470 --> 00:51:21.530 rbiermann: in it in. You know the setting where you have to think on your feet. So really, the the quickest way to be able to think on your feet is to listen
00:51:21.570 --> 00:51:27.200 rbiermann: and be able to be present and listen to what people are saying. and that's half the battle.
00:51:27.350 --> 00:51:36.910 rbiermann: because, as lawyers, you know, if we hear what is being said, chances are we will have a response. You know I will. We will be able to think on our fee.
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:48.270 rbiermann: But as soon as you stop listening, and because you're consumed with your own nervousness, or whatever it might be, you'd be distracted because you're thinking about. You know
00:51:48.270 --> 00:52:02.070 rbiermann: who you're gonna see tonight at the restaurant or what you're gonna. You know what you have, how you're gonna get home from this, or whatever it might be, that you know that you're thinking about as soon as you get into that mode. Thinking on your feet is almost impossible.
00:52:02.730 --> 00:52:11.250 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Yeah. So I think, going back to the your, your kind of point. It's sort of that about being relaxed in the environment. So that you so that you, you Aren't.
00:52:11.570 --> 00:52:30.580 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: stressing out about something that needs to. You need to be thinking about. Well, thanks, Rod. I I really appreciate your being here, and and those were some fascinating examples, and I wonder whether you have a message, for you know the entrepreneurs and other business owners or service providers that are
00:52:30.630 --> 00:52:37.150 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: that are in our audience today about. You know the application of their experience, anything, anything you'd like to share.
00:52:37.300 --> 00:52:50.050 rbiermann: Yeah, I mean, I I can tell you that when I went to law school I was one of the older folks in the in my class, right. Most most trajectory trajectories are. You? Go to college
00:52:50.510 --> 00:52:51.870 rbiermann: and you go to law school
00:52:52.130 --> 00:53:00.780 rbiermann: them, you know, and maybe it take a year, and you go to law school because you didn't like what you were doing. You don't know what you want to do, so you can go to law school right?
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:02.120 rbiermann: And so
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:09.990 rbiermann: it was. It was. It was so clear when I was in class, the people that had no life experience.
00:53:10.530 --> 00:53:26.700 rbiermann: and their inability to see a a bigger picture of whether it be a a pace or whatever it might be, in the law that we were studying the the the folks that had some real world experience. We're heading shoulders above everybody else
00:53:27.710 --> 00:53:29.080 rbiermann: in many respects.
00:53:29.200 --> 00:53:38.940 rbiermann: and and you know so those kinds of of experiences that you've had really try to mind them and and and look back and figure out.
00:53:39.070 --> 00:53:44.140 rbiermann: You know what you can use, how you can use it, and you may be doing it
00:53:44.220 --> 00:53:46.080 rbiermann: without even knowing it.
00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:49.700 rbiermann: But there's always valuable
00:53:49.720 --> 00:53:53.630 rbiermann: nuggets there in your prior experience that you've had.
00:53:53.650 --> 00:53:57.770 rbiermann: that you can apply to your everyday, everyday life.
00:53:57.860 --> 00:54:05.220 rbiermann: and I have to tell you that. you know, when I started law as a second career I felt like I needed to. I was playing catch up.
00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:17.640 rbiermann: but my growth was, was exponentially quicker than somebody's growth that came out of law school. So I was able to catch up pretty quickly because of all this experience that I was able to apply.
00:54:17.870 --> 00:54:23.980 rbiermann: So you know, those those prior experiences are are, you know, invaluable?
00:54:24.020 --> 00:54:31.770 rbiermann: So, as I said, mind them, figure out what you can use, and if you're using them, figure out how you can use them even more.
00:54:33.100 --> 00:54:48.410 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: Thanks so much, Rod. My guest has been Rod Bierman of the labor employment practice at off at Kerman. Thank you for listening to intangify. In our next episode we'll discuss the free mentoring services available to small businesses and entrepreneurs through score
00:54:48.690 --> 00:54:58.190 Matthew D. Asbell, Esq: tune in weekly on talk radio, dot Nyc on Fridays at 12 Pm. Eastern for the next in tang. If I podcasts. Thanks so much. Take care