Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, January 19, 2023
Facebook Live Video from 2023/01/19 - How to Create a Social Movement

Facebook Live Video from 2023/01/19 - How to Create a Social Movement


2023/01/19 - How to Create a Social Movement

[New Episode] How to Create a Social Movement

Thursdays 11:00am - 12:00pm (EDT)


The audience will gain valuable steps on what it takes to create social change.


Change does not happen overnight, especially when it's radical change. Movements such as the Civil Rights Movement, Women's Rights, LGBTQIA Rights, and more started because a group of people saw injustices and wanted to take a stand. These movements took preparation, strategy, education, and deep commitment to social ideals that are centered on equity and human rights. These movements took individual people getting involved and working with the collective to shift the times, accepted cultural norms, and systemic roadblocks. 

Join Rev. Dr. TLC as she sits down with her guest, the Rev. Dr. Andrea Ayvazian, as they discuss the work of the Sojourner Truth School for Social Change Leadership. Under the leadership of Rev. Dr. Ayvazian, the school's mission is to teach movement building skills and prepare social change leaders to win movement struggles. 

Tune in for this important conversation at

Show Notes

Segment 1

You can find a copy of Rev. Dr. TLC’s Dismantle Racism on Amazon. You can also look for her meditations on streaming sites. Rev. Dr. TLC also invites you to the Talking Alternative youtube stream to ask any questions. Rev. Dr. TLC begins her show with a guided meditation. She introduces the topic for the episode, which focuses on how to start a social movement. Rev. Dr. TLC talks about MLK day and the significance of Coretta Scott King. One of the reasons we celebrate MLK day is because Coretta was such an advocate. She also discusses some of the other activists that go unnoticed. Some of the martyrs she mentions include Vernon Ferdinand Dahmer, William Lewis Moore, and Viola Greg Liuzzo. The reason that Rev. Dr. TLC is discussing this topic is that we rarely hear about these people’s accolades. Another takeaway is realizing that it takes a village to make a difference. Rev. Dr. TLC welcomes Rev. Dr. Andrea Ayvazian. She shares some of her background and accolades before going to break.

Segment 2

Rev. Dr. TLC asks Dr. Andrea what keeps her grounded when she has such a demanding job dismantling racism. Dr. Andrea says being aware of her privileges and having strong faith keeps her going and pushing through difficult times. She says she is called to be a change agent because of her faith, heritage, and beliefs. Rev. Dr. TLC confronts the usage of the word dominate and how it perpetuates the mindset that white is superior. Rev. Dr. TLC and Dr. Andrea debate over specific terms that come up when discussing racism. They both were trying to explain that words evolve, and as a society, we learn better ways to express ourselves.

Segment 3

Rev. Dr. TLC asks Dr. Andrea, how do we stay focused on the mission and keep from saying “I’m tired”. Dr. Andrea explains that it’s okay to own fatigue. Self care is important and it’s okay to take a couple of days off. Dr. Andrea breaks down the difference between taking a break and quitting. She says that white people do this work because denial does not serve them. She adds that our rightful place comes with activism. Dr. Andrea says the reasons she keeps going is for her children and grandchildren. Rev. Dr. TLC asks if there are times Dr. Andrea feels like giving up hope. Dr. Andrea explains that she is meant to do this work whether she is hopeful or not. Being hopeful is a discipline and a choice. Dr. Andrea says she is not hopeful everyday but that doesn’t give her a reason to stop doing the work.

Segment 4

Rev. Dr. TLC asks Dr. Andrea for her opinion if people of color should read White Fragility. Dr. Andrea explains that there is no new information that people of color will learn. She goes on to say that it is an excellent book and a great read. Nice Racism is a book that people of color would be interested in reading because it talks about liberal racism. Dr. Andrea gives the listeners some pointers on how to create a social movement. You can also find Dr. Andrea’s course at


00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:51.000 On Youtube to please put your comments in, because we want to hear what you have to say.

00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:58.000 We want to try to answer your questions in the moment we want you to be active in this show.

00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:15.000 So, and I invite you, please, if you would, to find a comfortable place, to sit and to plant your feet on the floor, and I want you to close your eyes if you will

00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:20.000 Just take a moment to take a deep breath in

00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:25.000 And then let it out

00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:29.000 Another deep breath in

00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:34.000 And let it out

00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:38.000 One more deep breath in

00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:58.000 And let it out, and then just begin to breathe normally connecting with who you are, connecting with your inner, sacred intelligence, your divine wisdom.

00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:06.000 That part of you that helps you to make intelligent choices that are going to manifest your greatness.

00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:12.000 While helping others to do the same

00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:18.000 So just breathe in and out, connecting

00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.000 With your soul and your spirit

00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:34.000 And with the spirits of others. The people that you know, the people that you don't know, because we're all interconnected

00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:43.000 And just breathe in and out, and see yourself encircled by a light of love

00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:51.000 Which held you to realize that you are loved and you are love itself.

00:03:51.000 --> 00:04:01.000 And then that light is one wonderful power that helps you to change the status quo

00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:08.000 Breathe in and out, recognizing that what you do matters

00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.000 And that the power of one

00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:17.000 Contributes to the power of many

00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:27.000 You matter. Your story matters, your input matters.

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:33.000 Breathe in and out.

00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:37.000 Connecting with your foundation

00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:43.000 Honoring your commitment for social change

00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:50.000 Recognizing that the power of one contributes to the power of community

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:55.000 So take take a deep breath in

00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:59.000 And exhale

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:07.000 When you're ready, open your eyes and let's begin

00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.000 Today, as I said, we're going to be talking about.

00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:27.000 How do we start a social movement? Change doesn't happen overnight, especially when it's radical change movements such as the civil Rights Movement, Women's Rights Lgbtqis, a rights and the light.

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:34.000 We're started because a group of people saw injustices and said, I want to do something about this.

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000 Now we're coming off of the heels of celebrating Dr.

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:58.000 Martin Luther King's Holiday, and for some reason this year, as we were celebrating, I really was thinking about Missus King Greta Scott King, because we don't really hear a lot about the women necessarily of the movement, or the women who supported even the men who were out there, in front but

00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:10.000 there story matters. Did you realize that 4 days after her husband was assassinated she was marching in the streets of Memphis.

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:17.000 She didn't even have time to catch her breath. Good to grieve, of course, which took, I'm sure, years.

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:24.000 She was still in the movement. Did she do it because she wanted to honor him?

00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.000 Who did she do it because she understood it was also her life purpose to be involved in the movement.

00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:37.000 We all have different roles to play, and she was a powerful woman.

00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.000 In fact, the reason why you have the holiday for Dr.

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:45.000 Martin Luther King is because she was an advocate of that.

00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:50.000 She continued the movement long after he was gone, but not just Mrs.

00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:55.000 King, as I was going through and preparing for a program that I had at my church this weekend on or this past weekend on Dr.

00:06:55.000 --> 00:07:21.000 King, I really took a look at who were some of the other people involved in the movement, and there's some martyrs that I just want to call your attention to today because I think we don't know enough about the people who gave their lives for this movement Vernon Ferdinand

00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:43.000 Dahmer was a wealthy business businessman. He offered to pay the poll taxes for all those individuals who couldn't pay their own poll tax so that they could vote the night after he made this broadcast on a radio station his home was fire bones and he died from severe burns then

00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:48.000 There's Paul Gilhard. It was a reporter for French news service.

00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:58.000 He was killed by gunfire from a white mob to protest over the admissions of James Meredith to the University of Mississippi.

00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.000 William Lewis Moore was a postman from Baltimore, was shot and killed during a one-man march against segregation.

00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:15.000 Moore had planned to deliver a letter to the Governor of Mississippi, urging, an end to intolerance.

00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:33.000 Then there's Viola Greg, Louiso, a housewife, and a mother from Detroit drove alone to Alabama to help with the Selma March, after seeing televised reports of the attack at the Edmund Pattis Bridge, she was Burying Marshers between Selma

00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:41.000 and Montgomery when she was shot and killed by Klansmen in a passing car.

00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:46.000 I'm not advocating that you go out and put yourself in danger.

00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.000 If you do, that is your choice. Of course that's not the point of me sharing these names with you.

00:08:49.000 --> 00:09:01.000 There are 2 points. One is this, these people sacrifice their lives, and we hardly ever hear their names.

00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:15.000 The majority of those names that I read were white people who sacrificed their lives to be a part of the movement, because today, on our show, we're actually going to be talking about white people being involved in creating a movement and what happens when white people are actually called out if they don't get it right?

00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:20.000 Well, these folks decided, I'm not going to sit back.

00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:32.000 I'm gonna step up because there's an injustice happening, and I will be a part of the change.

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:33.000 So I want you to recognize that we have people from all different races who've been involved in the movement.

00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:50.000 And so the second thing I want us to take away from reading these lists of names is this, it takes all of us for a movement to happen.

00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:55.000 Don't buy into this concept that it's a black problem.

00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.000 It's a brown problem. It's a white problem.

00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:02.000 It's an Lgbtqi Ab. Problem is an agism problem.

00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:08.000 No, it is our problem. And we all have to do something about it.

00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:15.000 So I invite you to really lean in to our discussion today and see where you fit in.

00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:26.000 This show is about a moral issue that is happening, and you have to decide which side of history do you want to be on?

00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:41.000 So I'm delighted today to have a dear friend and colleague, who I've only known for a couple of years, but she is so wonderful, and she has been involved in the movement for quite a long time today.

00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:45.000 My guess is the Reverend Dr. Andrea of Asian.

00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:53.000 She's been a Social Change activist since she was radicalized in the 1,900 sixtys during the Vietnam War.

00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:56.000 She's adorned a pastor in the United Church of Christ.

00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:02.000 She serves on the ministerial leadership team at Alden Baptist Church and Springfield.

00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:08.000 She is the former dean of religious and spiritual life at Mount Holyo College.

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:16.000 She is the editor for Psalms in ordinary voices I invite you to pick up a copy of that.

00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:17.000 If you haven't done so. I used it last year during lint, and it is wonderful.

00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:29.000 She's also for the past dozen years been a regular monthly columnist at the Daily Hampshire Gazette.

00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:50.000 In Northampton, Massachusetts, and Andrea is the founder and director of the Sojourner Truth School for Social Change leadership that offers free movement built in classes, free movement, building clouds in person and online for all ages.

00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:59.000 So there is no excuse. If you want to get involved in this work, and you need to take some classes so that you know what to do.

00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:00.000 So we are going to take a quick break, but I want to.

00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:09.000 Welcome, Reverend back to Andrea of Asian to the show today.

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:27.000 So, Andrea, when we come back, we're gonna dive right in with hearing your story of how you started, and then how to create this channel. We're gonna be right back with the dismantle races

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00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:32.000 You're listening to talk radio and Yc uplift. Educate.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:43.000 We are back of the dismantle racism. Show my guest today is the Reverend Dr.

00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:54.000 Andrea of Asian, who is the founder and director of the Suggestionner Truth School for social change and leadership

00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.000 Dr. Evasion. I just want to jump right in. There.

00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:13.000 Because you have been doing this work for a really really long time, and I always start by asking my guests this question, which is, what keeps you grounded?

00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:19.000 And for you. I really want to want you to kind of share with me.

00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:26.000 How do you stay in this for so long? Because we saw when George Floyd was murdered?

00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.000 But there were many folks who jumped on the bandwagon.

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:35.000 And where are those folks now? So what keeps you grounded in this work?

00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:40.000 I'm so happy to be with you, and please call me Andrea, and I'm so touched by your very generous introduction.

00:15:40.000 --> 00:16:04.000 Thank you so much. What keeps me grounded, and what keeps me going is an ongoing awareness that I have come into this world in a rig.

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.000 Hmm.

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:11.000 Society, where I was by chance very favorable hand and by no chance of my own, because I didn't choose these characteristics.

00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:16.000 I came into the world with a lot of unearned advantage, and with a lot of privilege.

00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:32.000 And so there are multiple forms of systematic oppression in society, and I am white and middle class and currently able-bodied still, at 71 I am Christian.

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:46.000 I I am many things that gives unearned advantage to me on a daily basis, and, my faith, we are both women of faith.

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.000 Hmm.

00:16:47.000 --> 00:17:05.000 We are both ordained pastors. My faith calls me to be a changing, and to recognize that because society is rigged, and because I lifted a very good hand at birth, by chance I am called to make change, to name, injustice, to call out a oppression, and to do what I can as a member of

00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:11.000 the dominant group in so many areas of systematic oppression.

00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:31.000 When we think about anti-semitism, transphobia, homophobia, classism, racism, agism, when we think about the forms of systematic oppression, I am overly advantaged and receive the honored advantage in every one of them except by sexism except that I'm female in the other

00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.000 Hmm.

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:44.000 areas that's an awful lot of privilege dripping off me when I enter any group when I walk down the street, when I travel, when I pick up the newspaper and see myself over represented.

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:49.000 So I'm called because of my faith. I'm called because of my heritage.

00:17:49.000 --> 00:18:01.000 I'm a first-generation Armenian American.

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.000 Hmm.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.000 I'm called because of my beliefs to be a change agent and to work with others who are in dominant positions in areas of systematic oppression, to name, to be active?

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:10.000 Do we get it right all the time? No. Do we? Full?

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:16.000 Do we when you said a minute ago that white people are afraid of being called out when we get it wrong.

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:25.000 Dominance, people who are in the dominant position in forms of systematic oppression, who are working for change will get it wrong.

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:37.000 We will get it wrong. Whites get it wrong, and and Christians get it wrong and able-bodied people get it wrong when they're working for justice, and we go on anyway, and we continue anyway.

00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:55.000 We we do, and so so. So there are 2 things I want to pull out of what you said, cause I have to address this word dominant for 1 s, and then the other thing that I want to do is to say a lot of people who are in your position or our position we might be call and a lot of

00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:01.000 Christian folks, but we don't do the work, and so there's something that you have that really drives you to do this work.

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:02.000 That's different than other people. And so maybe we can tease that out a bit.

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:21.000 But but in recent years I've stopped using the word dominant culture and majority a minority, because I think psychologically, what that does is that we hear, oh, I'm but part of the dominant culture.

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:28.000 So that already puts us over that other group in some way or I'm part of the minority culture.

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:39.000 It makes us feel like, okay, there's something inferior about us, and I believe that a part of changing systemic racism and institutionalized racism and a world that's racist is that we have to change the language.

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:45.000 So I just want to offer that to you and to offer that to our listeners to kind of just think about.

00:19:45.000 --> 00:20:02.000 It things that we've been used to using. Perhaps if we start to change those things, then it becomes a way of saying, Oh, wait I'm not dominant, but I am.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:09.000 I could be privileged. I understand that and could be very privileged, because I know as a Christian in this country, I'm privileged, and what that privilege means is that there are some ways I can walk in the world that perhaps other people.

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:23.000 Cannot. Now there's some other things that might come up, but I do understand the concept of of what you're saying.

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:27.000 So I just want to address that. And you you're free to to jump in

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:33.000 I wanna I wanna jump in and say words are imperfect words in movements are imperfect.

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:39.000 I started doing antiracism work in the Eightys, and we actually used to say, perpetrator and victim.

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:45.000 We don't say that anymore. Then we started saying, victimizer and victim, we don't use that anymore.

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.000 I never use majority in minority. I never use that because people of color are the global majority, and because majority.

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:57.000 And and minority is so inaccurate.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:08.000 I do use the dominant and targeted and I'm going to push back because if you noticed in my introductory comments every time I said dark, dominant, I said, receives unearned advantage.

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:09.000 Yes.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:14.000 I said, receives unearned advantage, I think probably 4 times, and I'm a broken record on that.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:20.000 So we're imperfect. We no longer use perpetrator victim, victimizer.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:31.000 We no longer use those. We' however, and we don't use majority minority.

00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:32.000 Okay.

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:39.000 I use dominant and targeted, because I always connect dominant with receiving unearned advantage, and I also say people who are systematically targeted in the political, social, and economic spheres.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:53.000 So I am. I am searching for better words. We have dropped some of the old language which was actually became destructive when I started doing this work I was schooled in words.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:00.000 Right.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.000 Hmm.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:09.000 I would never use now, but I will say dominant culture is another way of talking about white supremacy, culture and and systematically targeted, is another way of saying oppressed by the forms of systematic oppression.

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.000 That exist in this country today. So I love that we have this little.

00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.000 Well, I do, too, because because here's

00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:17.000 I love that we have this little controversy good for us.

00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:21.000 Right, right it is is absolutely good, because I want to tell you.

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:37.000 You know most people are going to sit down and explain, dominant in the way I heard every word you said in it, but I, the dominant, kept hitting me hitting me, hitting me because there's something I tried not to use because people say well, I'm a part of the dominant culture

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.000 or those in the dominant culture. And and there's not this full explanation.

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:50.000 And what this shows is that 2 people who are fully committed to the movement can also have different points of views, because at this point I know, longer use anti-racism, and I have to tell you, I think she was a white woman.

00:22:50.000 --> 00:23:02.000 I'm not positive, but someone wrote to me one day and said, Do you think that you could stop using anti-racism?

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:12.000 And the reason that she explained, is, she said, because we want to talk about what we want and anti feels like you're you're you're you're talking about.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.000 You're pushing back, and then, of course, we're gonna push back.

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:21.000 But it just feels like heavy, and it feels like th this whole big force.

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:22.000 And so let's call into the space what we want.

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:30.000 And of course, I initially had to say, Well, who was she to be telling me not to use anti-racism?

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.000 I've been doing this work for 20 years, but but I sat with it because we all can learn.

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:42.000 And so I did start thinking about, okay, that's why, use the phrase, dismantle right?

00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:55.000 Like sometimes people don't use anti violence anymore. The bottom line, though, with all of this, and I really want people to take this this, there are going to be disagreements sometimes, and how we do things.

00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:04.000 But do it, do it, do it, do it so that gets back to the second part of what you said in your

00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:11.000 Can I? Can I say something about the anti-racism, or would you rather not

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.000 Okay.

00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.000 I I I think what you want to say is important. Let's take it wherever you let it go.

00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.000 My dear Caroline, I work with a lot of white people.

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:22.000 I don't know who reached out to you and said, Don't use anti-racism.

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.000 Can't we talk about what we're for? I don't know who that was.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:35.000 I will tell you that in my workshops with white people they say that a lot that I stand there and say as antiracist, and then someone will raise their hand.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.000 You can almost set your clock by it, and I will just say that in workshops with a lot of white people they would much rather talk.

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:49.000 We? We? I'm white would much rather talk about what we're for, what we dream about.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:54.000 What we're working towards much anything that lets white people off the hook.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:55.000 Hmm.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.000 And I say, of course, talk about what you're for.

00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:06.000 Of course, talk about your dreams, of course, give language about what you're working towards.

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.000 Because exactly.

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.000 But first being an anti-racist, first say I am bumped up against white supremacy culture, because it actually needs to be dismantled and only talking about my dream.

00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:16.000 That's right.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.000 Hmm.

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.000 I'm going to tell you it. Let's write people off the hook, so I use it, and I get pushed back in my workshops.

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:26.000 People have been. People have been gone silent and not wanted to engage, because I pushed back, and I offended them.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.000 But I'm in the business of offending white people.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.000 So that's okay.

00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:33.000 Oh, I you know what! And and so I'm glad that you actually did say that.

00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:48.000 That's important for our listeners to hear, because again, we all have different approaches, you know, for me, and I know that you come from a place of love when you're teaching as well and it's so funny because Andrea actually reviewed my book, and there were a couple of times just

00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:53.000 Like, you're talking to white people why don't you just say you're talking to white people up here?

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:58.000 And so thankfully, even though my audience was primarily white.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:05.000 I'm so blessed, though, because people of color have also read the book and said, Wow, I needed to hear this.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:13.000 This is fortifying me, but the journey and I do this work all the time, but it's always important to know, like white people.

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:14.000 I'm talking to you at this particular thing right here.

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.000 So.

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:23.000 And and and Caroline, when I say in workshops first you're an anti-racist, and you dismantle racism then told me all about your dreams, even in the same sentence.

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:33.000 But first name, that you were combating racism, and then you'll hear people of color in the workshop if it's a mixed group.

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:34.000 Say, thank you. Okay.

00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:42.000 Yes. Well, because the bottom line is, we can't dismantle it unless we're pushing up against it.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.000 Yup! Yup!

00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.000 Otherwise, we're we're walking on on that walkway that that Dr.

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.000 Tatum talks about when you're in the airport.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.000 We just keep walking forward, and we may not be be walking.

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.000 Sometimes we're standing on that little moving, walked away.

00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.000 Moving Sidewalk

00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.000 I'm times we're we're walking. But either way, we're still going towards it.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:06.000 And so she says, you have to turn around and bump up against it. Right?

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:19.000 So you have to really bump up against the system. We do have to take a break, of course, Andrew, but I do want to talk about when we come back, because you talk about letting white people off the hook.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.000 And it is too easy for white people to decide. I don't want to do this anymore.

00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:30.000 I mean, people were hot and heavy in 2020, and some of those people have fallen off.

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.000 There's still something about you that keeps you moving.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:41.000 The 1,900 sixtys was a little while ago, and you're still doing it right there.

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:49.000 So there's something that makes you continue. And I wonder what you can offer after the break to white people.

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:50.000 Just say, Hey, we've got to do this, so we'll be right.

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:55.000 Back with the dismantle racism show. Call your friends, tell them they should join us now, because it's a hot show today, and we want you all to be a part of it.

00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:04.000 We'll be right back with the dismantle racism show

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.000 Are you passionate about the conversation around racism? How from rubber?

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:16.000 Dr. Tlc. Host of the dismantled Racism Show, which airs are free. Thursday at 11 Am.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:21.000 Eastern on top radio dot men. Yv join me and my amazing guests.

00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:27.000 As we discussed ways to uncover this mantle, and eradicate racism that's Thursday.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:35.000 At 110'clock A. M. On top radio. Dot. Nyc, yeah.

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00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.000 Tuesday things from 5 Pm. To 6 pm.

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:06.000 Eastern time on talk radio, the Nyc

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:07.000 Hey, Buddy, it's coming, Dean, and nonprofits sector.

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00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.000 And it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story.

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00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.000 We're back with my guest today. The Reverend Dr.

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:12.000 Andrea evasion, Andrea. So tell us, how do we stay in it?

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:19.000 How do we keep from saying I'm tired not doing this anymore, or something else has pulled our attention away.

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:22.000 What do we do?

00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.000 Oh, you're muted, Andrea!

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.000 I thank you. I think we do say I'm tired.

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.000 I think we own fatigue. I think our work for justice.

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.000 Ebsen flows. I think self-care is very important.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000 As long as it's not self indulgence.

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:54.000 There's a big difference between very healthy, self-care and self-indulgence, and I think there's a difference between taking a few days off and regrouping and taking a few months or years off and dropping out there's a big difference how I keep going is such a

00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:09.000 Good question I do have to say that as you said in the introduction, I was radical on during the Vietnam war, when I was in college in Ohio, at Overland College, and I'm 71.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.000 Hmm.

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.000 So I started being active in social movements at 18. So that's we're talking about 50 years, I think.

00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:32.000 Now being, active in social change, movements, and now, being a movement elder, I think it's in my DNA, and I think a long time ago in my family and in my church, and in my circle of friends, I and so many other people around me, chose not to have a life of ease but a

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:40.000 Life of purpose and a life of meaning, and to commit to uplifting what was in the common good.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:49.000 And so I do this work and other whites do this work when we come to the realization that denial does not serve us.

00:31:49.000 --> 00:32:04.000 And does not help us claim our full humanity. Apathy does not serve us, and does not help us claim our full humanity, and if we want to be and take our rightful place in the human family.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:26.000 Our rightful place comes with activism as Alice Walker has talked about that activism is the rent we pay for being present on this earth, and Mary Oliver, poet Mary Oliver, also talks about us, taking our rightful place in the circle of the human family and of all living beings

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:39.000 Not more than our place, not too much of a place, and not too little, and my rightful place, when I claim my full humanity, is to care about full humanity.

00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:42.000 Other humans, everywhere of every in the great diversity and beauty.

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:49.000 That is all God's people. And so right now it is now in my DNA.

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.000 And why else do I keep going? Because I'm a mother?

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.000 Hmm.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:59.000 Because I'm a grandmother, because I look at 2 year old, Fiona, and think, Oh, my heavens!

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:07.000 If I don't work to stop gun violence to stop a oppression, to to turn around climate change, to prevent nuclear war.

00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:13.000 What legacy are relieving our kids, our grandkids, and the 7 generations

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:17.000 Yeah, you know. So I just want to reiterate you said so many powerful things.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:29.000 And that sentence, but there, there's something that I I wanna make sure our audience take this away doing the work of social justice means making a choice, a commitment claiming your humanity and being a part of the circle of humanity.

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:47.000 You like those 3 seat those 4 seas right there. So you just gotta do the work because it is important to do this work and to recognize that if one of us suffers we all suffer so are there.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:55.000 Times that you lose hope with doing this work, particularly around racism.

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000 I,

00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.000 I I would flip the question, and this is gonna going to sound very stark to your listeners.

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:07.000 And I'm gonna flip the question you said, are there times when I lose hope?

00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:13.000 I would rather say there are times when I gave gain hope.

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:14.000 Hmm.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:20.000 I lose hope a lot, because to be very transparent and to be very honest, I think in my life hope is a luxury.

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.000 I think in my life hope is a discipline, and I think hope is a choice.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:29.000 My work is to keep going and to continue in the struggle, whether I'm hopeful or not.

00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.000 Hmm.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.000 It's just a discipline. I wake up and say, God give me the strength and the hope and the convention to do the work that is before me.

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:47.000 This day, this day I know pray in the morning and say, Make me useful for the next decade, or I hope I was helpful. Yesterday.

00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:55.000 I asked for the strength and the convention to do, and the hope to do the work that is performing this day.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.000 So when you say what wh, what keeps me going and do?

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:02.000 I have hope some days I don't, and you work.

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:07.000 Anyway, I have so much to earn advantage that hope is just a luxury.

00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:14.000 I'm call to this work. I think it's a discipline, and I think hope is a choice.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:18.000 Hmm.

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.000 Hmm.

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:20.000 And today I'm finding this hopeful and Tuesday I took care of Fiona, and I found that hopeful and Sunday in worship.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.000 I heard a good sermon, I found that hopeful.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:37.000 If I can get a blessing and a source of hope, even if it's fleeting each day, that is good enough.

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:38.000 Yeah.

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.000 But do? Am I hopeful every day? No, but that does not give me license to stop so many times in this Internet.

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:58.000 You have used the 3 words, do the work you've said it over and over and over. You've said, do the work, and that as a white person with so much advantage and so much given to me, and so many blessings, I'm called to do the work, whether I'm having a good day or not

00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:06.000 Yeah. But but tell me, because I know you and I have talked because we talk about laps when we talk, we've talked about how white people will retreat when they're called out.

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:27.000 So I want you to speak about that calling out, and then if you could talk about just a little bit about the difference between calling in versus calling out, and then I'm sure we're gonna end up bumping up against a break, but we have to we want to end today's show by saying

00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:28.000 All there's some things to do where we can create that movement.

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:38.000 Do you want to leave some tips for that? So let's start first about this whole idea of retreating when when white folks are called out

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:46.000 I want to credit the person who has taught me the most about calling in the call out culture, and that is Larretta Ross, who is a professor at Smith, a long, long, long time activist.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:54.000 Now, Macarthur, genius winner. She won a Macarthur genius Grant, and she is about to come out with a book, I think, called calling in the Callout Culture.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:24.000 So Loretta Ross activists visionary. I honor you and Loretta Ross says you keep going when you're called out, and that calling out on the part of the person doing doing it is a way to acquire some power and accurate some strength and not to feel so bad about your own

00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:30.000 Hmm.

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:33.000 Flaws that you'll call out someone else's misuse of language that you'll call out where they misstep, rather than seeing that if we call people in, if we say I've done what you just did.

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:37.000 And here's what I've learned along the way I've said what you just said.

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:40.000 I've used that word and then learned that language has changed, and that there are new ways to express ourselves.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:49.000 I've misstepped in meetings like you just did, and I've dominated.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:52.000 I've had too much to say. I've used up too much air time to actually call in, because every person with unearned advantage has missteped.

00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:07.000 Countless times, and so you can reach out to somebody who has just missed, stepped, and said, Come back into the fold.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.000 I've done that, and here's what I've learned.

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:17.000 Let me help you. Let's walk this this journey together.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.000 Hmm.

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.000 Yeah.

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:25.000 So Loretta Ross says, calling out, makes people burn out, and it makes people drop out and calling in, keeps people in the movement.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.000 I don't want to be a source of burning people out or helping people drop out.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.000 I want to say I get it, I get it that you just use that language that we don't anymore.

00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:39.000 I get it that you did badly in the meeting. It doesn't make you a totally bad person.

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:44.000 It means you're learning and growing welcome to the rest of the great unwashed

00:38:44.000 --> 00:39:00.000 Right. But you know what, Andrea, I think that's that is a bit frustrating sometimes as a as a black person and as a black person who's actually out front doing the work because we all do the work in a different way, or we're we're confronted with this every

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.000 Day is this luxury that white people can say? Oh, I've been called out.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:09.000 You hurt my feelings, and so I'm I'm not going to do this anymore.

00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:12.000 Even as a person who does this work. There's always learning that I have to do as well.

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:20.000 People correct me on things I say, and and you better believe people within the culture are going to correct me on things that I say or do, or call me out on something.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:45.000 But I don't. Also I don't have the advantage of saying I'm not going to do the work, because my life, my children's life, my nephews, my kindred's life, depend on this, and and I think that for white people to be under the assumption, that we also and maybe they're

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:54.000 not assuming it. I don't know that we don't experience something going through this as well, but we're committed to doing this.

00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:11.000 There is when I am teaching, I have to really ground myself before teaching, because what people don't understand is that, as a facilitator, and you might have this experience too, we're actually absorbing all that people are sending our way.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:23.000 We're holding space for so many people. And if we don't try to create a container for ourselves, we're absorbing all of that.

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:34.000 And I actually had someone to say to me recently she said to me, even after your shows, you really need to do a cleansing, because just from what you're hearing on those shows and just navigating you're taking on.

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:48.000 And so I really want white people who are listening to really think about we're all making a sacrifice in doing this work.

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:54.000 And just because your feelings are bruised, it doesn't mean that you don't keep going so I want to give you a chance to to respond to that.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:06.000 If you want to, and then we have to take a quick break, and when we come back we'll wrap up the show. Talking about the movement that you help people to create at the sojourner true School

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:21.000 I know we're coming up on a break, and what you just said, my dear, my friend, is, I'd like to unpack, and maybe we can continue it after the break, but I want to remind you that Robin d'angelo a white woman wrote a book called white fragility and Talks about

00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:27.000 the power of white tears. When white people break down because they've been so wounded because they've been called out.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:33.000 And you know, we need to recognize that white fragility then inspires white people to retreat.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:38.000 I've just been hurt. I meant well, white people don't understand that they do mean well.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:42.000 And do Babysitter? They mean well and do badly.

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:48.000 And so the meaning, well, okay, good. We can celebrate that the doing badly we have to correct.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:57.000 They has to be a course correction. There so white for Jury and white tears is really a powerful way that white people retreat, and I name it.

00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.000 I say, come back! Come back! We don't need to be that fragile you're tougher than that.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.000 You're stronger than that. You're in this movement.

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:08.000 Nobody just said that you should be buried under the building.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:13.000 We said you did a little bit badly, which white people do all the time.

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:17.000 Anyone. And I'm going to use in the dominant group with unearned advantage does badly heterosexuals do badly around homophobia.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:31.000 Men do badly around sexism. Rich people do badly around issues of poverty, because it's not Olympic experience of their being oppressed.

00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:43.000 But we go on anyway, and we show up, and we gather with others, and we don't let ourselves drift away because we were so hurt. That's why, for fragility

00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:49.000 Right. That's right. Well, that's a good place for us to take a break when we come back.

00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.000 We're going to hear just a bit, because there's probably needs to be a part.

00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:04.000 2 of this show about, how do we really create a movement? We'll be right back with the dismantle races and show

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:12.000 Hey, everybody! It's Tommy De, the nonprofit sector Connector

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:22.000 I hosted program, philanthropy, nonprofits in contact each and every day. And it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.000 Listen each week at 10 Am. Eastern Standard time until 11 A.

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:34.000 M. Is from standard time right here on talk radio dot. Nyc, yeah, you may have many unanswered questions regarding your health.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:41.000 Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle? Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health and enhance your quality of life?

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:44.000 Or do you just want to purchase in self understanding and awareness?

00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:51.000 I'm Frank R. Harrison, host of Frank about health, and each Thursday I will tackle these questions and work to enlighten you.

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.000 Tune in every Thursday at 5 0 P. M.

00:43:52.000 --> 00:44:01.000 On talk radio, Nyc. And I will be frank about help to advocate for all of us

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00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:23.000 Listen! Live at our new time on Thursdays, at 12 noon Eastern time.

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:27.000 That's the conscious consulting our weakening humanity.

00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:35.000 Thursday's 12 noon on talk radio dot Nyc.

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00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.000 We're back with the dismantle racism.

00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.000 Show, and I feel like the hour has gone so very quickly.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:29.000 I did get a a text message with a question, and of course I have an answer that in my mind I'd love to hear what you think about it. And the person asked me whether white for jility was a good book for people of color

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:31.000 Yeah, you're muted. You're muted

00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:35.000 Is white fragility, a good book for people of color to read.

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:41.000 There won't be one sentence that is new to people of color, but she puts it well.

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:46.000 She does a good job. She it's right behind me.

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:56.000 She talks about how fragile white people are she talks about the power of white tears, she talks about how white people circle the wagons and defend each other.

00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:10.000 It won't be news to people of color at all, but it will lay out for people of color what the tricks and the smoke and mirrors that white people use to not do the work.

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:15.000 Her recent book, Robin d'angelo's recent book is called Nice Racism, and that might be more interesting to people of color because nice racism talks about liberal racism.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:32.000 Good Liberals and Progressives that do badly every day, and nice races is really powerful because it's not the clan.

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.000 It's good white church folks and it's good white book Group folks, and it's good white neighbors who do really badly and are nice.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:58.000 So I would recommend nice racism over white for fragility and white fertility is now a little bit dated, but nice racism, I think, came out last year, and she talks about pockets of nice racism where nice racism is flourishing like all these good little enclaves of progressive white people.

00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:05.000 Like in Ann arbor, Michigan, and Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and she names my town.

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:06.000 Hmm.

00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:09.000 She names Northampton, Massachusetts, and I write for the local paper.

00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:18.000 So when I read nice races, I said, Hey, folks, here's we're being called out in this book in this book on page like page 6.

00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:27.000 So we've got more work to do that. So I I would say, next, racism is a very helpful book.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:28.000 Alright! So, Andrea, we have to make sure that we get to the question.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:38.000 The topic is How to create a social movement, and we are near the end of the show.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:39.000 They'll do, we'll do.

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:44.000 So tell us you you've just got to give us some pointers now, creating social movement and then tell folks how they're going to be able to take classes because you teach it.

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.000 That's right.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.000 Oh, cool! So talk to us

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:50.000 You know, movement building is relational. It is based on relationships.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:59.000 Sometimes people are radicalized by reading a book or seeing a film, but often they're radicalized by the modeling of others.

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:05.000 So when Caesar Chavez was asked how he did all the organizing that he did during his lifetime, and as an old man, they said, What was your key?

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:12.000 What did you do and show this point? Paused in any?

00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:21.000 He said, well, first I talked to one person, and then I talked to another person, and then I talked to another person, and then I talked to another person. Movement.

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:27.000 Building is about modeling and talking about what you believe in.

00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:28.000 Hmm.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:34.000 And taking other people along. Just take them to meetings and taking them to vigils and taking them, inviting them to book groups that are reading nice races.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:43.000 And it's it's it's about modeling and coming out of the closet as somebody who cares about these issues and is willing to go out on a limb.

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:49.000 And yes does badly. Sometimes I say to people, Don't let your fear be bigger than your cause.

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.000 Don't let your fear that you're going to do badly.

00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:59.000 Be bigger than your commitment to your cause. I also say to white people, I mentioned this before, you will do badly.

00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.000 It's not if you're going to do badly.

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:08.000 If you're talking about race which you were raised not to talk about, and no one helped you with this.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:17.000 You are going to do badly. Go forward, anyway. I also think that we need to recognize that activists are not solo warriors.

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:18.000 Right.

00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:19.000 Join groups, put yourself in diverse situations, and white people be useful.

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:24.000 Don't enter a diverse group and take over and run the meeting.

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:33.000 Get the mailing out. Do the child care? Bring the snacks, do something that is supportive.

00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:49.000 I also say, white people. There are 3 words to remember. Whites have not been raised to be effective in multi-ethnic groups, but we have to remember is, we have to listen and believe.

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:59.000 Listen deeply to what people of color are telling you. If they are giving you the gift of their truth, talent, and believe them.

00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:08.000 White people have been socialized to finish sentences, to refute the information they're giving to defend other white people and to tell the person of color their wrong.

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.000 No no Harry, didn't mean that. He doesn't have a racist phone in their in his body.

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:17.000 Listen to people of color deeply, draw them out if they're willing to spend time with you and to share their truth telling and believe them and ask, How can I be useful?

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:26.000 And then step out on a limb. Don't burn out, don't drop out!

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:36.000 Don't give up. Stay with it. I mean I serve a predominantly black church in Springfield.

00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:37.000 I serve a predominantly black church into Springfield.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:53.000 I don't know how we're doing on time, but I have to say I've been there 6 years in the ministerial team, and recently in African American man in the Church who's a leader, said to me, they call me Doc, and he said to me you know Dac, I didn't like you for the

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:57.000 first 2 years, and I said, I know I know so and so I know you didn't.

00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:04.000 And I said I tried to show up and shut up, and to not take over, and to listen to be useful, he said, Yeah, I just didn't like you.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.000 And I said, I know. And he said, Why would I like you?

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.000 I grew up in Mississippi I was tormented.

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:18.000 I was hurt by white people. I was targeted. Why would I start by liking you?

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:22.000 And he said, I like you now. And I said, Why do you like me now?

00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:26.000 And he said, You did show up and show up, and you just kept coming back.

00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:36.000 This makes me cry, and you just kept being useful, and you just kept bringing dishes to the potluck suppers, and you just kept being up there and leading prayers that were meaningful.

00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:52.000 And you cried in church, and you hug us. You stay with it because trust is earned.

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:53.000 Hmm.

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:54.000 Acceptance is a gift. It is not a given it's a gift, and I am grateful that he likes me now, and white people stay with the work.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:00.000 Engage in diverse settings, drop hopes of perfection.

00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:05.000 You will not be the perfect ally. Men will never be the perfect ally to me.

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:19.000 They will get it wrong. It it is just a given that Allies will miss step, just swallow hard.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:20.000 Yeah.

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:23.000 Say apologies, ask for forgiveness, and keep going, and I will say one last thing about forgiveness.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:30.000 Forgiveness is also not a given. It is granted forgiveness can also center white people in the discussion.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:39.000 Suddenly, it's all about white people's pain and how they need to be forgiven, and how they've become this person who's pleading forgiveness is not a given.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:48.000 It is granted by magnanimous hearts. And basically, we apologize, we learn, we do better, and we go on.

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:52.000 So I would say, those are some of my tips

00:52:52.000 --> 00:53:01.000 So we are the end of the show, Andrea. I have enjoyed you enjoyed you so much.

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:02.000 Great

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:06.000 Tell people how they can take a course true school, and I just want to point out about the courses.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:10.000 The courses are not just for white people I know we've talked about, but the work of white people on today's show.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:11.000 But the school itself is for anybody who is in the movement.

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:22.000 I actually teach a course. There, I have one coming up in a couple of weeks on 2 Saturdays.

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:33.000 So just tell people how they can get in touch with the school, and then I want you to just close this out with a short blessing, if you will, of about 30 s, because we don't have long left for the ship

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:38.000 Great, the sojourner to school for social change. Leadership has every semester spring and fall 40 to 50 classes on zoom.

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:49.000 We're now on Zoom. Anyone can take them all of our classes are taught by people of color.

00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:55.000 We do not hire any white people or any white pairs to teach in the sojourner to school.

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.000 Some white people teach, but they must be in a biracial pair.

00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:03.000 So if you take one of our this catalog has 46 classes.

00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:04.000 If you take one of these 46 classes in the semester coming up, it will be taught by a person of color.

00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:15.000 We have lifted up the leadership of people of color and amplified their voices.

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:25.000 The classes are varied, and are for every age and for all regist and all ethnicities and religions.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:26.000 You can find us by going to Www. Two-school org, just Google Sodjourner.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:36.000 True school, aren't you

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:42.000 Alright in 30 s. Give us a worse inspiration to sale out of here

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:51.000 You know? I asked the Holy One who is known to us by so many different names, and is revealed to us in so many different ways.

00:54:51.000 --> 00:55:08.000 I asked the Holy One to give us all the strength to do the work that needs to be done, to give us the clarity to go forward and to put our egos aside, to give us the friendships and the colleagues that help us go forward and help us stand back upright

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:28.000 When we have fallen or misstep. I asked for the strength and the energy, the vision, and the courage to do the work that is before me to do, and I ask that we stay connected, that we stay connected in love, and we take our rightful place in the circle of humanity amen

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:35.000 Amen and shay. Thank you so much. Dr. Andrea of Bayesian, for being on the show.

00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:49.000 Please reach out to hurts. Take a course. It will help to fortify you as well for the journey. And so, please, and she said, go to to the the Truth school, and look up all the classes that they have to offer thank you

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:57.000 And read this book. This book helps us all. Read this book

00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.000 Bless you, bless you!

00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:01.000 This mantling racism. Thank you so much for pointing that out, and I want to thank you for listening. Today.

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:04.000 I want to invite you back every week at this time.

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:09.000 Please stay tuned, for the conscious consultants hour with Sam Leibowitz.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.000 Where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:23.000 Ease and joy. Be well, be safe for encouraged until next time. Bye, for now

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