Thursdays 12:00pm - 1:00pm (EDT)
This week, on The Conscious Consultant Hour, Sam welcomes the Bestselling Author, Daniel Pinchbeck.
Daniel Pinchbeck is the bestselling author of How Soon Is Now, Afterlife: Is There Consciousness After Death? When Plants Dream, Breaking Open the Head, and 2012: The Return of the Quetzalcoatl. He co-founded the web magazine Reality Sandwich and the online platform Evolver.net.
His essays and articles have appeared in a vast range of publications, including The New York Times, Esquire, Rolling Stone, and ArtForum, and he has been a columnist for Dazed & Confused.
Join Sam and Daniel as they discuss the various world crises we are facing collectively, and what we can do about them.
Tune in for this enlightening conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
00:00:35.720 --> 00:01:05.690 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Good afternoon. Good morning! Good evening. Wherever you're tuning in from around the world. Welcome to the conscious consultant hour awakening humanity. I am very, very pleased that you are all here with me today. We've got a wonderful show in store for you with an amazing guest who I had on once before, but there were some technical difficulties, so we didn't quite get him on for the full show, so i'm very pleased to to have
00:01:05.700 --> 00:01:09.309 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: them back again today. But before I bring on my guest
00:01:09.320 --> 00:01:25.890 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: um, let me just quickly go through uh my little section of my book, Everyday Awakening um, and this little section is entitled to heal our deepest wounds. We must speak the truth about our pain
00:01:26.450 --> 00:01:46.280 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in order to begin a healing process. There is something we must be willing to do. It is not just about taking better care of ourselves or changing our lifestyle. It is about something far deeper and far more difficult to start a journey to wholeness, we must be willing to speak our truth.
00:01:46.630 --> 00:02:04.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: This is the truth about how we feel deep inside the truth about our pain and suffering, the truth about our desires and secret wishes, without admitting to ourselves that we are experiencing feeling, and truly want to have happen now.
00:02:04.100 --> 00:02:13.350 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: We cannot move forward. What we hide inside of us will continue to control us. What we shun in fear will continue to affect our life.
00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:32.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: The truth we deny will fester and grow until it comes out. It is not easy to admit the truth to ourselves. It takes courage to be brutally honest about how we feel and what we want, yet we do it not for ourselves, but for others,
00:02:32.430 --> 00:02:35.979 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: so that we may be whole again and at peace.
00:02:36.090 --> 00:03:04.400 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, yeah, we do it not for others, but for ourselves. So that may be all again. Not a piece reverse that tonight it is only by shining the light of our own truth into the blackest corners of our soul, that we free ourselves from the shackles of the deepest wounds that stay with us our whole lives. These are the wounds that kill us if we do not address them. These are the wounds that drive us. If we do not speak them out loud.
00:03:05.020 --> 00:03:12.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: What is your truth that you have been afraid to speak? What pain is there in there that needs to come out
00:03:12.820 --> 00:03:32.529 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: So this section of my book. Um, I wrote uh after um seeing a movie that that one of my teachers recommended and it, and it's extensively a movie based on a kids book called A Monster Calls, and it's a wonderful, wonderful movie. I highly recommend it
00:03:32.540 --> 00:03:49.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: about a boy who's who's going through a very difficult time in his life because his mother has cancer. And uh liam Neason plays the voice of of the monster, which is like this giant tree that comes and visits him and tries to to sort of teach him about life.
00:03:49.930 --> 00:03:58.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But the end of the movie it's. It's really brilliant. I don't want to spoil it for you. But it really comes down to speaking. The boy. Learning to speak is truth,
00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:05.339 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and this is something that at the time had such a deep impact on me
00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:08.180 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to really see how
00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:13.499 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we all have these deep pains, these deep
00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:15.029 um um
00:04:15.150 --> 00:04:17.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: challenges within us
00:04:17.390 --> 00:04:36.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that we're afraid to admit that we're afraid to sort of speak out loud. Yet until we do, they actually control us in an unconscious way that these these truths cause us to make little decisions that make a big impact on our life.
00:04:38.030 --> 00:04:41.709 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But it's only by recognizing these truths,
00:04:41.730 --> 00:04:50.929 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: admitting them, speaking them out loud, or speaking them to ourselves, and just admitting them that we begin
00:04:50.940 --> 00:05:03.129 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: to heal from it, that we bring light to it, consciousness to it, that we bring more awareness to it, so that these dark truths Don't, continue to troll it, control us to the rest of our lives.
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:16.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um! So if you haven't seen the movie yet definitely check it out. I know it's on Netflix. It's probably other places as well amongst our calls it it's a wonderful story for kids of all ages. It's actually very adult movie.
00:05:16.890 --> 00:05:33.300 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um, but the message in it it is really amazing. And and that's what inspired this section of my book. Um, Again, that's entitled to heal our deepest wounds. We we must speak the truth about our pain. So uh
00:05:33.310 --> 00:05:44.230 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: your assignment this week is uh to see what truth are you not speaking. Um, that's a painful truth that will help you to heal if you let it out.
00:05:45.170 --> 00:06:04.649 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um! So that's from my book every day, awakening hope you have a chance to. Uh uh take a listen to it. And now it is my extreme pleasure to welcome back to the show. Daniel Pinch Back Daniel is the best-selling author of several wonderful books, including how soon is now,
00:06:04.660 --> 00:06:33.980 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: after life is their consciousness after death, when plants dream breaking open the head and two thousand and twelve, the return of Quatso Coeto um He's, the co-founder of the Web magazine Reality sandwich, and the Online Event platform evolver net his essays and articles have appeared in a vast range of publications, including the New York Times, Esquire. Rolling Stones Art Forum and He's been a columnist for dazed and confused, and it is my pleasure to welcome
00:06:33.990 --> 00:06:40.459 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: someone I consider to be a very deep thinker um onto the show. What welcome Daniel.
00:06:40.510 --> 00:07:08.549 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Uh, thank you. Stem thanks for having me. It's my pleasure I've I've been, you know, even from before I had you on the show i'd met you a long, long time ago at an evolving meeting down in the village. I I think we're talking about alternative currencies at the time, and I've been following you since then. I've been subscribed to your blog, and so much of what you write about and talk about really resonates with me, and rings a chord.
00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:16.200 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and so there are a few things that I really wanted to touch upon uh on the show with you, and I would like to start with
00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:26.570 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: the the ecological crisis that we're facing, and humanity's apparent lack of response to it.
00:07:26.900 --> 00:07:32.419 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and it's really it's something that it is. It's kind of mind boggling
00:07:32.520 --> 00:07:42.289 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: that this is a a real major world crisis. Yet we don't seem to really be taking it seriously, do we?
00:07:42.760 --> 00:07:44.889 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, I mean um,
00:07:45.580 --> 00:08:04.389 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh it's. Yeah, it's It's you know we're It's such a big question the question how how to how it, how it again. But I mean um, I mean, yeah, Now the even the head of the Un is warning that there may be a global, you know, food crisis uh next year, you know.
00:08:04.450 --> 00:08:33.209 Daniel Pinchbeck: Um, yeah, I mean, uh well, you know we were ideological creatures, and we are embedded in uh ideologies that have functioned well for the last, you know few centuries uh the idea of progress technology as the Savior capitalism as constantly creating like growth and opportunity. And um, it's not that easy for people to realize that. Um. Some of this ideology is now proving to be to be
00:08:33.220 --> 00:08:43.220 Daniel Pinchbeck: false or or wrong, or misguided, and that actually um we would have to move into a different kind of um system to uh
00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:57.199 Daniel Pinchbeck: avert the uh the consequences of our of our actions. Um. So yeah, I mean um. I think that's part of the problem. We don't, you know one There, there's ideology and the other hands. There's like systems and structures, because even for those people who wake up to it,
00:08:57.210 --> 00:09:14.830 Daniel Pinchbeck: What do you do I mean? You know your individual actions seem kind of hopeless, like you could stop eating meat, you could, you know, do a little composting? Um, But So that's not going to make a big difference, you know. Um: So yeah, we we don't really have systems systemic support
00:09:14.850 --> 00:09:22.880 Daniel Pinchbeck: for the types of changes that would be necessary or kind of like. We don't even get kind of um societal approval,
00:09:22.900 --> 00:09:27.900 Daniel Pinchbeck: for, like you know, doing things that that would be a value. Um.
00:09:27.910 --> 00:09:55.349 Daniel Pinchbeck: So the support structures aren't there, and our ideology is to is still trapped in older ways of seeing our situation like this idea of us expecting technology, technological solutions and progress. Um. And unfortunately, a lot of the actual solutions would require changes in lifestyle on a on a mass scale and doing things like um
00:09:55.360 --> 00:10:04.579 Daniel Pinchbeck: shifting from industrial farming, you know, reducing the amount of animal farming uh, drastically, but also shifting to more like permaculture and organic farming practices
00:10:04.590 --> 00:10:18.749 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh traveling less. Uh, you know, bicycling, more insulating houses, and a lot of is not very glamorous. Not what people want to hear about. They want to hear about um. You know the what you know, the the faster cooler, you know.
00:10:18.760 --> 00:10:34.109 Daniel Pinchbeck: Next thing uh the idea that actually we have to slow down and go backwards for for our for our survival. Uh is um nobody's selling that you know It's not what it's being sold in the super bowl ads, or whatever you know. So that's that's part of the problem,
00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:45.550 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Right It It It it's kind of like the the this unwillingness to recognize the lack of sustainability of the type of society that we've created,
00:10:45.640 --> 00:10:52.420 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and that the the solution to it is something that nobody wants to admit to um
00:10:52.430 --> 00:11:10.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and it and I I feel like It's it's even. And and as you mentioned it's it's bigger than just what we can do individually. And and somebody said to me, and I don't really know if this is true or not, that, like seventy percent of the pollution is being generated
00:11:10.150 --> 00:11:32.089 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: by like ten mega corporations like energy companies, you know we're still burning fossil fuels, factories, and mills, you know. There's still like these major industrial complexes that are continuing to spew into the atmosphere stuff that we know, for a fact is bad, for the environment is bad for the climate,
00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: yet it it's.
00:11:34.410 --> 00:11:52.570 Daniel Pinchbeck: I I mean. I don't know it's it's it. Individuals, is it? I don't. I can't really see. That makes sense to, you know, single out in a way it doesn't make sense to sing out the corporations because they're just responding to, you know, pressure from shareholder and the one that, but also what consumers want. I mean, we all want the new
00:11:52.600 --> 00:12:09.280 Daniel Pinchbeck: thing. You know these things are made of, you know rare materials and rare minerals that have to be mined in places like the Congo, and so on. Um, you know our grandparents or parents Pension funds are tied up, you know, in in those those corporations.
00:12:09.290 --> 00:12:23.640 Daniel Pinchbeck: So it's um. It's really systemic. I mean that I wrote a book called How Soon is Now, which was sort of a consolidation of like ten years of reading and and researching and thinking about the situation and um in that book I kind of
00:12:23.650 --> 00:12:30.090 Daniel Pinchbeck: argued that we'd have to look at this. You know, three different main areas like just to get a handle on a very abstract level, which is, like,
00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:51.630 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, social systems like little economic system, technical infrastructure things like energy and agriculture and transport and um waste management and then sort of consciousness ideology, you know, indoctrination through media and so on, that we'd have to step back and be like, okay, like we kind of need to like, you know, In the same way,
00:12:51.710 --> 00:13:01.179 Daniel Pinchbeck: when a computer system gets too old you have to do it upgrade. You have a You have to install a new system software um to actually deal
00:13:01.190 --> 00:13:29.540 Daniel Pinchbeck: in reality with the situation that we've created on the planet. We actually need a new, like a system upgrade and um. So all this talk about like green capitalism, or you know the one point five degree, you know, warming, and so on. I mean none of that's even conceivable. Uh, until we really, you know, rethink our our economic system, for instance. And you know the kind of technologies that um, you know, need to be supported. I mean
00:13:29.550 --> 00:13:32.980 Daniel Pinchbeck: because we have an economic system that's based on um,
00:13:33.130 --> 00:13:46.399 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, publicly traded companies have to maximize a profit shareholder value. So they have to go for short term financial gain. So, for instance, Apple, you know, was constantly changing, even just like the Power Court, and said, you have to plug into
00:13:46.410 --> 00:13:55.819 Daniel Pinchbeck: um, you know. So they do that because every time they do that they make fifty bucks per core they really buy, you know ten to ten trillion chords, but it's totally unsustainable. It's just creating more,
00:13:55.830 --> 00:14:24.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: you know. So we have. We have a waste, intensive system, but basically conspicuous consumption planned up to lessons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And And all all it's doing is is like you said, creating more waste, more toxicity, making things more and more unsustainable. Um, I want to get into a little bit more. This idea of that. We need a a consciousness shift, but we got to take just a little quick break. And so when we come back Um! Let's talk about that, and talk about what?
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:50.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um As as we both know that there are certain tools to help us with shifting consciousness. And maybe what roles do those have to play um in the potential future that we have. So everyone, Please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consult now are weakening humanity. I see loyal listeners, William and Patty. Uh on the Youtube live. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we'll be right back with our guest, Daniel Pinchbeck in just a moment.
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00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:15.140 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and welcome back to the conscious consult now awakening humanity. So we're speaking this hour with author, Daniel, Pinch back. So, Daniel,
00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:21.310 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: we we we're in this situation as we've talked about where there really needs to be a shift
00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:33.989 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in in just how we live in our awareness and our consciousness. Okay, I mean, there doesn't need to be anything. Oh, okay, for well, if we would like to survive as a species, let's use that qualifier. Okay,
00:17:34.590 --> 00:17:37.040 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um. And
00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:40.380 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and and, as you said, there there's like
00:17:40.530 --> 00:17:56.389 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: in in order for us to sort of change the systems to change the way we're living. Then it it it's kind of like upgrading our computer. There needs to be an upgrade and consciousness to be able to fully make that shift to fully embody it.
00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:25.229 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And um you've been involved in the psychedelic industry for many years. I I was recently at the Horizons Conference, and and had an opportunity to to hear about. You know what's kind of the latest stuff going on in the industry. Colorado just uh legalized psilocybin after Argon. Did there a lot of concerns in the industry? But um! How can psychedelics help us to move forward. Is it a way, or or or is it
00:18:25.270 --> 00:18:29.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: not really something that's going to make a big enough impact?
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.740 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh yeah, I mean, I mean? Um,
00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:52.420 Daniel Pinchbeck: Obviously we're seeing among other problems, like a huge mental health crisis. Uh, you know, massive upsurge like depression and anxiety, and so on. And um, you know, obviously at the root of a lot of that Anxiety and depression is fear of death. Um, you know Psychedelics,
00:18:52.470 --> 00:19:01.029 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, can help people address their fundamental fears uh, and also
00:19:01.110 --> 00:19:10.800 Daniel Pinchbeck: give them a sense that there are, uh, more possibilities within consciousness, more dimensions of consciousness, exploration, uh, which can make them happier,
00:19:10.870 --> 00:19:13.450 Daniel Pinchbeck: um, I believe.
00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:19.750 Daniel Pinchbeck: But uh, they're also very powerful tools, and they're also easy to misuse. Um.
00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:35.590 Daniel Pinchbeck: But I my first book breaking up in the head, was all about. It's like no Shamanism, and I've written about it a lot. I wrote about Ayahuasca recently in another book when plant stream, like a sort of cultural biography in a way of Ayahuasca. So I do see great utility and potential in these substances.
00:19:35.750 --> 00:19:53.429 Daniel Pinchbeck: But for me the the mental health aspect which is what horizons. What the sort of industry is focused on is is, you know, one important aspect of it. But there's other pieces of the puzzle, too. Uh, which is, you know, if it could help people to really reach almost like a different um
00:19:53.600 --> 00:20:11.750 Daniel Pinchbeck: understanding of uh, You know our our possibilities as a species. You know what, what, what what consciousness is uh, and so on, you know, I mean. I remember the first time I took mushrooms. I I had this experience of feeling like very connected to the natural world and
00:20:11.760 --> 00:20:29.690 Daniel Pinchbeck: watching people use money. It was so strange like, Why are we valuing this sort of uh these dirty bits of paper so much? And why are people so disconnected from the present moment? Why do they all seem to be like fixated on what's in the past and the future, I guess. In a way it was like very power of. Now you know kind of insight. But before before totally
00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:52.599 Daniel Pinchbeck: Um. So yeah, I think there's a lot they can do but by themselves they're not going to do the job. Uh. And actually, if you look at how indigenous cultures use um visionary plants, and so on their tools for initiation. But then also it's very important that the elders of the community hold space for the process of the younger people are going through, and also kind of uh help
00:20:52.630 --> 00:21:07.509 Daniel Pinchbeck: take their visions and kind of weave them back into the narrative of of the of the community over time. Um, you know kind of um. So yeah, So i'm a little concerned about how a lot of the psychedelic kind of um
00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:15.629 Daniel Pinchbeck: movement is kind of it being sort of pulled back into capitalism. Uh what seconded Alex. Are being. See this tools for um
00:21:16.050 --> 00:21:27.919 Daniel Pinchbeck: kind of If you're an entrepreneur, you can get more creative ideas rather. But run your business, or if you're um, you know an overworked Google Executive, you can. You know, become more mindful in a piece.
00:21:27.930 --> 00:21:36.479 Daniel Pinchbeck: So uh, but hopefully, it's just a step in a deeper process, and it is great that um! They're becoming more accepted culturally. Again,
00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:57.299 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: one of the things, though, that I noticed is not always, but in general, when people use psychedelics they tend to feel more connected to the environment more connected to nature around them. And now they're more mindful about our impact on the planet, and it does seem to create a more
00:21:57.310 --> 00:22:06.920 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: holistic perspective, you know. Not not necessarily about everything or or always. But but there is a tendency to sort of move in that direction.
00:22:06.930 --> 00:22:28.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I totally agree with you. That's a good. That's a that's a great positive good point I should have. I should have mentioned that. Yeah. But but I think what you brought up about the elders is so important because so many people think like, Oh, I can just get some mushrooms and and trip on my own, and without sort of guidance, without an elder without um, someone who is there to hold the space.
00:22:28.070 --> 00:22:44.090 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Then it's it's it's a recreational, maybe a celebratory experience. But it's not necessarily a a deep spiritual experience, or it's not something that can help to inform and shape and and help the person to change their life? Is it
00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:54.049 Daniel Pinchbeck: not as my phone still could be? But um um, yeah, I mean I I I about this and break up. And they had in other books, but it's sort of like, um,
00:22:54.130 --> 00:23:13.640 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, to have to have a void of an initiation succeed. The endpoint of that initiation is the reintegration into the community. Um, and otherwise people just end up, you know, isolated in in their um realizations. You know
00:23:13.670 --> 00:23:35.820 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: it. It. It highlights the need for like an integration process that you know so many people because it's hip and fad going down to Peru going down to South America somewhere doing I was, and they come back, and there's no support. They're back in the exact same environment they left in, and they're not necessarily have the support to make the fundamental changes in their life that they need to.
00:23:35.830 --> 00:23:37.619 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, although although you know,
00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:53.340 Daniel Pinchbeck: having said that there is a huge new kind of a you know, career path for integration counselors, you know I don't know many people. We're doing that with psychedelics. So um, so it's that that is happening in some sense.
00:23:53.470 --> 00:24:02.069 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Now, you know, psychotics are looking as a tool to sort of change people's consciousness around sort of the way we live.
00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:05.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And um
00:24:05.210 --> 00:24:21.879 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: one of the things is like There are viable alternative methods to how society is structured. I think sometimes we get a little too stuck in like. Well, what else is there like? We don't. We think, because capitalism is what's dominant right now like That's all there is.
00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:31.179 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: But but there are examples of other ways of living that are successful, that that we could adopt.
00:24:32.230 --> 00:24:39.350 Daniel Pinchbeck: Right there are, but and you know, even within what's called capitalism, there's different flavors, I mean, if you go to like um.
00:24:39.810 --> 00:24:44.269 Daniel Pinchbeck: I was just in New York for a couple of months. I was in Paris. I was in Norway. It's on,
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:46.920 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know. You have a feeling of a more
00:24:47.230 --> 00:24:51.079 Daniel Pinchbeck: sort of caring society that you find in the Us. Um,
00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:56.910 Daniel Pinchbeck: and you know they do that by, you know, progressive taxation, so that um,
00:24:56.930 --> 00:25:13.169 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know there, you know, particularly in the Scandinavia, you know there's this idea that um people Aren't supposed to be like so much better than everybody else, you know. I think that's actually very healthy, and and our model is is very unhealthy. Just come back, flew back to Jfk. Yesterday, just like
00:25:13.300 --> 00:25:16.389 Daniel Pinchbeck: I was just shocked by how ugly
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:46.390 Daniel Pinchbeck: the airport is, and how like the it doesn't work and nothing works, and it's it's it's like, you know. There's no sense of like cultural pride. You know all the money that you know I mean America is supposed to be the richest country in the world, or it was, you know, all, all the money that we could have used to really create a beautiful infrastructure and a social network has all been siphoned off by uh the rich people, you know, by the Viking elite, you know. And and you know right now I just wrote a piece about Sam Bankman freed and the ftx collapse, and you know he was basically
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:54.159 Daniel Pinchbeck: he doing what Wall Street does like Black Rock? You know, Sequoia, these big cap, you know, these big capital investment firms. We're totally behind
00:25:54.180 --> 00:26:11.549 Daniel Pinchbeck: what he was doing, which was clearly and openly stated, A Ponzi scheme, you know. Um. So yeah. So I mean, we could certainly be doing that, or even within capitalism. But then, beyond that, if you look at something like, you know, the you know, different natural native American
00:26:11.770 --> 00:26:30.020 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh ways of organizing society. Uh, like I in how soon is now? I looked at a book by an anthropologist, Pr. Klaus uh society against the State. We talked about how a lot of these digital societies were actually organized, designed so that hierarchical relationships with power domination could not occur,
00:26:30.030 --> 00:27:00.020 Daniel Pinchbeck: and even if they had a chief, the chief would never be able to like order. Somebody into battle like Putin is doing. The chief was more like the mediator, the one who was the best suited to kind of deal with disputes in the in the community, who also had the the most knowledge of the the plants and the sacred history. The mythology of the community, and so on. So it was like the wisest person in the community. The favor got too powerful. Actually the the women the council grandmothers would would would cut them down, and they would be um kind of uh exile.
00:27:00.030 --> 00:27:17.339 Daniel Pinchbeck: Um, If you look at the Iroquois constitution, which was very much the basis for the American Constitution. I mean it also enshrined kind of like equality of wealth. So there wasn't supposed to be massive inequalities of wealth, and actually in in Iroquois and other native American societies, the Um,
00:27:17.350 --> 00:27:43.129 Daniel Pinchbeck: the chiefs or the leaders, were actually the ones to possess the least uh, because they would actually, you know, have all these complicated reciprocal relationships. They would give their wealth away through poplashes or through gifts, and that was actually a sign of their nobility of spirit. So we've kind of converted everything where we now associate uh quality and character with, uh, you know, material possession which is completely the opposite of any intelligent culture.
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:44.760 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm. Hmm.
00:27:44.910 --> 00:27:54.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Given that. That's like what's being so popularized. Are Are there any? Do you see sort of any movements or any
00:27:54.030 --> 00:28:07.930 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: opportunities for for again things to shift, to change, to sort of break that mold and and to and to really help them present it a different model in the popular culture.
00:28:08.600 --> 00:28:29.679 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh, it's complicated because um the you know kind of um power of technology is more and more serving the interest of the powerful, you know whether it's uh, you know drones, or whether it's surveillance or uh manipulation, and by algorithms and so on. So um! At the moment it feels like people, have been more fully um
00:28:29.690 --> 00:28:41.029 Daniel Pinchbeck: confused and duped. So i'm even less optimistic that I was maybe ten or twelve years ago, You know. There was, uh, you know briefly the occupy movement, and so on. But even that wasn't very well
00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:51.079 Daniel Pinchbeck: organized or well architected, Let's say so. Yeah, it's hard to see from where we are now, how a uh alternative movement could gather enough force
00:28:51.090 --> 00:29:04.319 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh, and what we're seeing instead is a lot of the rebellious energy being siphoned off into kind of neo fascism, you know, with the Trumpians and the the you know the proud boys. And all this nightmare
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:20.020 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: um a a I need to take another break. But when we come back I want to. Yeah, I I I want to um delve into something that you've started to talk about in in your blog a bit about how
00:29:20.300 --> 00:29:41.579 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: or maybe this crisis is all meant to be sort of an initiatory process for humanity alright, at that one. And when I, when I saw you start to talk about that, it was like, Oh, this is really juicy. This is something to dive into. So Let's talk about that. A real quick break, everyone. Please stay tuned uh we'll be right back in just a moment.
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00:31:45.150 --> 00:32:00.869 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and welcome back um, Daniel. So uh, we just ended last segment. I wanted to touch upon this really fascinating concept you came up with about how, perhaps maybe
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:18.609 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: this this global crisis that we're facing is actually something that will service in the long run should we get through it as terms of it being some kind of an initiatory process. I'm wondering if you could sort of explain that for our audience and let's dig into that a little bit.
00:32:19.030 --> 00:32:25.390 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, Sam, Thanks for bringing that up. It's uh, definitely one of my favorite thought streams. Um,
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:44.340 Daniel Pinchbeck: yeah. So I mean, you know, Pre modern, if you look at all cultures around the world. There was almost always initiatory uh processes, usually, for you know, adolescents so young adults to become a full adult of the community. I to go through this process that could involve, You know, fasting walk about, but basically,
00:32:44.820 --> 00:32:50.039 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, push you towards visionary experience through some type of intense privation.
00:32:51.230 --> 00:33:01.629 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh, Joseph Chilton versus an interesting writer wrote the transcendence. He proposes that. Um, you know, in a way. Um, maybe there's some
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:12.379 Daniel Pinchbeck: kind of developmental process uh, even in terms of our neuro chemistry. That, um, you know, requires this kind of initiation. Uh: to reach a kind of level of adult maturity.
00:33:12.540 --> 00:33:28.480 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh and yeah, modern civilization, you know, kind of shifted from initiation to indoctrination. Uh, we don't go through these types of processes as a bar mitzvah. Maybe if you're Jewish. But if you don't really do anything. Just learn a bunch of, you know language, or whatever um you know. So maybe
00:33:28.490 --> 00:33:43.559 Daniel Pinchbeck: um, you know, while we but but you know May. Maybe this kind of initiatory threshold is something that we can't evade or escape, and so subconsciously like we've known about the ecological emergency since the sixties uh we haven't really been able to
00:33:43.570 --> 00:34:02.960 Daniel Pinchbeck: course correct. Maybe we're actually self willing subconsciously a collective uh crisis to force a uh mutation of human consciousness to bring us to a a a more adult stage of cooperation and symbiosis uh Another part of the thought stream is um.
00:34:02.970 --> 00:34:13.469 Daniel Pinchbeck: If you look at the biological evolution over a long period of time. There's a sort of inevitable movement from competition domination of an aggression to the cooperation. It's
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:43.070 Daniel Pinchbeck: symbiosis. So, for instance, like a tree. It's a much older species than us, and you know it. It provides shelter for many, many other species. Um, it's very generative, you know. Food, sources, and everything, and you know we're still quite a young species, I mean. You can even look at uh le Margolis. What about called micro Cosmos, where she looks at, how you know our own bodies are made of these huge colonies and microorganisms that learn that maybe we're fighting originally and learn how
00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:50.899 Daniel Pinchbeck: to be symbiotic and cooperative, and to create more complex structures which became our organs like our lungs and heart. All this stuff.
00:34:50.909 --> 00:35:05.570 Daniel Pinchbeck: So Um: yeah. So So maybe we're pushing ourselves to an evolutionary crisis to force the kind of initiatory uh process and a kind of mutation of human consciousness. So we can develop a truly cooperative and symbiotic planetary civilization.
00:35:05.720 --> 00:35:17.719 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, I I I know there are many people who who study mushrooms who who are looking at sort of the mycel network, and how um someone was stating how like it's a truly
00:35:17.730 --> 00:35:35.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: um decentralized sort of process where um the way of my sale network functions it. It's very symbiotic with the environment around it. And also it it's constantly popping up, and there's no one sort of hierarchy to it.
00:35:35.070 --> 00:35:47.980 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, I think I wrote about that one of my recently. There's a really wonderful book, but it's got Merlin shelled right, called Entangled Life Totally recommend it along with Paul Stamens's work on on my cellular networks and actually like um. You know, the Internet itself
00:35:47.990 --> 00:36:08.059 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh developed in the you know sixties because of the uh concerns about nuclear war, and how that could lead to a dismantling of our capacity to communicate, and so on. So they felt they needed to build a decentralized network sort of like um almost like It's almost biomimicry like following the model of uh, You know my cellular networks, and so on.
00:36:08.070 --> 00:36:24.289 Daniel Pinchbeck: So yeah, I mean, um, I think that's all very interesting, like maybe um um. You know this sort of egoic hyper individuated condition that we're in now gives way to something that you know we understand our subjectivity a little differently.
00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:37.809 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh we um! We live in communities in a more embedded way again. Uh, and we, you know, take care of those things that are primary, um, you know, for us, for for life itself, you know, like
00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:51.859 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, biodiversity, a health of ecosystems, wetlands, and all that stuff. Um, You know that that that's a possible trajectory, and then our that our technologies would actually be servants for us in how to
00:36:51.870 --> 00:36:58.540 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, evolve our own consciousness and how to create a harmonic planetary culture.
00:36:58.550 --> 00:37:27.279 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Hmm. Hmm. One of the things you you also write about. You. You tend to write about a lot of things sort of on the edge. Um, you you write about crop circles and an extra extra terrestrials. Um, Sometimes to me it feels like certain community. Certain people kind of feel like they're waiting for the flying sources to land and save us from ourselves in a way. But it doesn't really seem like that's going to happen, is it?
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:40.669 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh probably not like that? I mean um. You know my experiences and all sorts of psychedelic states, including Ayahuasca and Dmt. That middle trip to mean, you know, indicate
00:37:40.680 --> 00:38:01.419 Daniel Pinchbeck: that there are, I mean to me. I'm sort of convinced that there are other dimensions other forms of consciousness uh some of it benevolent, some of it malevolent, like basically a whole ecology of a sentence that we don't really understand as of yet. And so, for instance, my my theory is that you know some of the crop circles
00:38:01.430 --> 00:38:20.309 Daniel Pinchbeck: are um kind of a messages to us from other types of consciousness. You know, in the galaxy that um are pointing towards kind of an integration of a neolithic and shematic knowledge systems with modern technologies, um or science,
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:36.830 Daniel Pinchbeck: and a fractal math, for instance, and so on. I see you have the the seat of life behind you framing your head perfectly. Um. So. Yeah. So so. Um, that's all very interesting. Yeah. And um, yeah, I don't think it's a question of I mean, you know, there there may certainly be
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:53.659 Daniel Pinchbeck: other other forms of consciousness. Uh whether they're flying around in saucers, or whether they're in other dimensions that are observing and and and you know, playing with us, maybe uh um, um, but um, it's It's really when we we go through an evolutionary
00:38:53.670 --> 00:39:10.789 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: stage, maybe that becomes more apparent to us like how we can work with those other forms of consciousness
00:39:10.890 --> 00:39:28.999 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: of of sort, of the the This idea of um implants, you know, a cybernetic implants of of of using artificial intelligence like to keep up with artificial intelligence. We're going to need to augment ourselves kind of almost taking us away from
00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:36.220 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: our natural evolution to to sort of a more unnatural evolution. Do you share concerns about that?
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:42.049 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah. But I've written about that a lot. I mean, you're talking about the the singularity or transhumanism. Um:
00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:46.770 Daniel Pinchbeck: yeah, I think a lot of that is is very problematic. Um,
00:39:46.970 --> 00:40:14.720 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh, However, i'm not a what I like. I think I think that we should be using technology a book that I really loved. Um! It's called uh by this guy, Tom Roberts called the Psychedelic Future of the mind, and he argues that we kind of, you know, rethink the direction of progress toward actually consciousness. Like the many different types of body, mind states, experiences that we can have, and it seems that they almost have different types of State specific knowledge that we can access in these different, you know,
00:40:15.050 --> 00:40:33.840 Daniel Pinchbeck: altered states of consciousness. So I feel that that's really a more interesting direction for our, you know future revolution than yeah, putting chips in our brains or trying to become immortal through um kind of uploading our consciousness to computers. Silicon: silicon matrices.
00:40:33.850 --> 00:40:53.800 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, The big question is whether Ai can become conscious in itself, or whether there's something in our metabolic processes that actually consciousness, you know, requires a kind of a metabolic systems. You know that that it's not really going to be the same through a mechanized interface.
00:40:53.980 --> 00:41:00.599 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, it it's a conversation I've had with people in in the past, and just just recently talking to someone about it
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:09.620 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: about our brains like, you know. There was this um um belief before that our brains generate consciousness,
00:41:09.790 --> 00:41:27.949 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and there's a different kind of theory now about our brains being a receiver of consciousness that consciousness is actually something outside of the physical organ of the brain or the body, but that the brain is sort of an an an antenna that's receiving the consciousness from outside of us.
00:41:27.970 --> 00:41:47.829 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, that's what I I think is the case. And and even beyond that i'm an idealist in a way like I believe I mean I'm very excited by this philosopher, Bernardo Castro, who wrote a book called Why Materialism is Baloney, and he was actually a scientist who was working at Cern. Uh, and um went through a kind of self interrogation process and ended up
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:59.400 Daniel Pinchbeck: realizing that it was, you know much more probable hypothesis that actually consciousness is the sort of the ontological primitive, the foundation, and rather than matter. So it's not that our consciousness,
00:41:59.410 --> 00:42:17.419 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, just appears through kind of uh accidental processes and physical evolution. It's more like um Consciousness is the underlying ground, and uh to you know know itself to explore itself, to investigate itself, and ultimately has to create.
00:42:17.430 --> 00:42:27.219 Daniel Pinchbeck: Um, you know, kind of separated beings like ourselves, which possess, you know, which which can hold a certain frequency of consciousness. And and um, you know, kind of
00:42:28.090 --> 00:42:39.450 Daniel Pinchbeck: to kind of participate in the evolution of consciousness, the evolution of awareness.
00:42:39.460 --> 00:42:55.390 Daniel Pinchbeck: Yeah, I mean I'm i'm a huge supporter of Vedanta into Tibetan Buddhism. Uh I mean um. I think that. Um yeah. I mean, I recently I spoke to a a a llama happened to meet, and a visa, and I was just once again just blown away by, like
00:42:55.400 --> 00:43:10.130 Daniel Pinchbeck: just the the clarity and the wisdom, and also the matter of factness with which they understand things like reincarnation. And um, you know, Nirvana and other states of consciousness, and so on. Yeah, I feel like It's a you know. We should. We have a lot to learn from uh cultures like that?
00:43:10.140 --> 00:43:21.810 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, Absolutely. Absolutely. I know you're gonna cringe but one last break, and then we're gonna come back. We we'll take a break, and when we come back um,
00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:35.780 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I want to just touch upon, uh whether you are hopeful or not hopeful. And and uh, maybe prognosticate a little bit about what we think is going to happen in the next twenty, thirty, fifty years for humanity. Okay,
00:43:35.790 --> 00:43:51.670 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: awesome. So everyone, please stay tuned. You're listening to the conscious consult. Now awakening humanity. We've been speaking this hour with Daniel Pinchbeck, author of such books as How soon is now after life, and when plants dream, and we'll be right back in just a moment,
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00:46:03.050 --> 00:46:31.630 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um, so, Daniel th the just one more thing I want to touch upon before we get to the future actually was um in in one of your blogs Recently you had reference to gentlemen. I watched the video. Who's talking about how to describe sort of higher states of consciousness like what happens when you're on high doses of of Dmt. And and he was talking about how there's like more and more information being sort of folded into
00:46:31.730 --> 00:46:34.619 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: space and and time,
00:46:34.630 --> 00:47:03.859 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and and it it I thought it was really fascinating, especially in context of what we were talking about before about. Are there these other dimensions of higher uh, uh, uh states of consciousness that might be really um just packed with so much information that it takes these kinds of of of of symbols and and and and patterns to really uh, uh uh represent that dense amount of information.
00:47:04.570 --> 00:47:23.629 Daniel Pinchbeck: Well, first of all, Sam i'm. I'm. You know i'm nice talking to you, because it's clear that you've really been paying attention to my to my stuff, and it's cool to to get you know. Think that reflection? Um: yeah. This is this guy. Andres from the Kuala Foundation. Who Um has been doing this extraordinary kind of phenomenological and kind of mathematical study of the um
00:47:23.640 --> 00:47:35.010 Daniel Pinchbeck: kind of different geometrical structures that you that you enter into at these different levels of Dmt intensity. And he talks about hyperbolic. You know Java trees and um
00:47:35.020 --> 00:48:01.060 Daniel Pinchbeck: kind of how space-time kind of functions differently within them. And how you know these leads to different. You know. Kind of uh, yes, you know, at potential to access different levels of like state, specific knowledge, and so on. Yeah, I think he's really uh I just met him a few months ago in in England at this conference in York share, and I definitely think he's at the cutting edge of the cutting edge at the moment, and he's also quite funny, and it goes all the time, which is always a good sign. So yeah, that's super fascinating stuff.
00:48:01.070 --> 00:48:29.960 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um, I don't know what else to say about it, but people can check it out. I I mean it it to me. It's kind of interesting, because when I think about some of the spiritual teachers I've studied with, who've talked about, you know, sort of higher spiritual beings, and how like in their consciousness they're able to overlight, like solar systems and galaxies, and and the presence to be able to um be aware of like so much more information. And it felt like
00:48:29.970 --> 00:48:37.000 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: this is kind of like the scientific mathematical approach to sort of that spiritual concept.
00:48:37.250 --> 00:48:44.119 Daniel Pinchbeck: I think he's on to something he's out of something big, maybe bigger than Bitcoin. You never know.
00:48:44.130 --> 00:49:08.320 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Um, yeah, sure. Hope so. So I mean, I do know some people who are like hardcore technologists who believe like technology is going to save us from from our our challenges that we'll, we'll come up with some kind of technology technological solution to get enough Co. Two out of the air, or or some other kind of thing.
00:49:08.610 --> 00:49:25.259 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How are you feeling about the future right now? Because you you read so much? You're aware of so much a I, I I i'm sure you've been through processes and highs of lows, of being optimistic and being less optimistic or or pessimistic.
00:49:25.270 --> 00:49:32.989 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: How are you feeling today. Are you feeling more optimistic, more pessimistic, or or something in between?
00:49:33.410 --> 00:49:52.210 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh? Well, today I've been you know, just last weekend. I was re-reading, and I wrote a little about Nissar Gadata. You know that book. I am that Yeah. And some level. That's where i'm at, you know, like you know, there's you know everything is perfect as it is like some Sars Nirvana. This is just the unfolding, the perfection.
00:49:52.220 --> 00:49:55.109 Daniel Pinchbeck: Um, you know everything, you know. So
00:49:55.170 --> 00:50:01.969 Daniel Pinchbeck: um, it's incredible. I mean, I think we we don't, you know, reckon enough with the miracle
00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:19.529 Daniel Pinchbeck: of the fact that you know we're just here. I mean, how did the this happen. There's like a huge fireball like ninety-two million miles away, and that's like creating enough heat that over like billions of years. This strange little globe starts to develop all these like, you know, processes like photosynthesis, and you know,
00:50:19.540 --> 00:50:32.609 Daniel Pinchbeck: oxygen, oxygen breathing, and all that stuff. And then suddenly we're like sitting in cities and talking on zoom. I mean for me those you know. The whole thing is the kind of a magic uh, you know, like a spectacle. I think that you know
00:50:32.930 --> 00:50:51.739 Daniel Pinchbeck: our free will is less than what we think it is in this circumstance. We can, you know, on some level. It's all just kind of like happening, and we're just part of this process in a way. So yeah, what I, you know ultimately in sub level, I feel it's not even just hopeful, like. I feel that
00:50:51.750 --> 00:50:54.430 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know the underlying,
00:50:54.530 --> 00:51:11.750 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know basis of this reality is this consciousness that is us that is, into the infinite love and benevolence, and is exploring. You know it's different capacities, you know, through us, and into further circumstances that we can't even imagine. At this point, just as a
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:26.639 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, a a a monkey couldn't imagine how the our society developed. Um so. Yes, that I think I mean, I think that actually the more you can relax into that and surrender into having like a no fear kind of perspective.
00:51:26.650 --> 00:51:55.529 Daniel Pinchbeck: Then maybe transformation, you know, does become possible, like we don't know what's going to happen in five twenty years. I mean. This guy Sam Backman freed was suddenly worth twenty-six billion dollars now he's worth, you know, negative two dollars, you know. So at any moment we don't know what's going to happen. It's all just kind of happening. Yeah, Yeah, it it it. At least I believe in my experiences that miracles do happen. Um, we may not recognize them all the time, but that miracles
00:51:55.680 --> 00:52:05.019 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: can happen and do happen all the time. Um it I I had a thought, and it escapes me for the moment. Um!
00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:24.720 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Oh, what I wanted to mention was I? I tried for the first time the five meo Dmt uh earlier this year on my sixtieth birthday. And it was such an experience of you know, with what's typically term the ego death when you feel like you're connected to everything, and you have all this awareness,
00:52:24.730 --> 00:52:35.079 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and I just remember coming out of it feeling like, Oh, my God. If this is what we go back to after we die, what is everybody so afraid of?
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:44.790 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: And and it felt like very liberating to kind of say, like there's nothing to be scared of about death
00:52:44.800 --> 00:53:12.059 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: and get, you know there's so much in society there's so much fear around death. We don't even talk about it most of the time. I I I've actually been having some conversations lately with some people around death just because of parents having passed and stuff, but it's really quite interesting that that it it feels like we're starting to come to terms with death in a way that in modern society we haven't come to terms with before.
00:53:12.850 --> 00:53:30.069 Daniel Pinchbeck: Uh, yeah, And I think you know five hundred is a is a very powerful tool uh and um, you know, it can also be very. I'm very happy that you had a beautiful experience for some people. It's very jarring. I think it's the you know the the of you know, separate self identity or ego density,
00:53:30.080 --> 00:53:42.850 Daniel Pinchbeck: if you're holding on to that very tightly. That's that's a very difficult uh thing. Um, But yeah, I mean, I mean basically it, you know, for me five and ao guinea was, you know, direct uh confirmation
00:53:42.860 --> 00:53:51.819 Daniel Pinchbeck: of what uh, you know, Buddhism talks about as Nirvana or the void or not Duality? Uh, you know it, you know visually. It's a little bit like
00:53:51.830 --> 00:54:20.879 Daniel Pinchbeck: islamic kind of patterning on mosques, but it goes off all directions forever. It's continuously moving, and you are that you're not separate from that until you start to come out of it. Your ego begins to, you know, reassert itself or your capacity to have a separate, you know cognition. And then you're like, Whoa? You know what the hell? Um. So yeah, I think It's it. You're right. I mean, that's like. If you look at you know Buddhism. Their whole idea is um,
00:54:20.890 --> 00:54:39.839 Daniel Pinchbeck: you know, by going through lifelong meditation uh you realization you can reach a point where you become a non returner. So you don't logo, you you you that's probably the white light of the void. It's it's just to dissolve into that to that infinite bliss. State Um, However, if it, if any of you is clicking to separate identity,
00:54:39.850 --> 00:54:56.300 Daniel Pinchbeck: and then you're going to return. And uh, you know, Then there are all sorts of levels to which you can return. Um, you know, as a you know body, software you take that kind of body soft of out to help the liberation of all suffering beings and all that stuff. But yeah, And I think it's incredibly interesting that as we approach this
00:54:56.390 --> 00:55:07.780 Daniel Pinchbeck: kind of evolutionary Cul-de-sac as a species, we have tools like ayahuasca and a buff over five amo, which um you know can give us this um
00:55:08.230 --> 00:55:22.429 Daniel Pinchbeck: kind of tell us a bit of awakening uh and remind us that. Uh, you know, these these uh ancient uh mystical ideas are completely true, and actually more true than uh a lot of the voice. And what we think is true.
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:52.430 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's. It's funny. I just had a discussion yesterday with someone who's uh works for Nasa. She she's um. You know what works in one of the departments working on the future Artemis launches, and and a very spiritual person comes from Afghanistan originally. I'm going to have her on the show in the summertime, but but I just find it fascinating that the more that I've talked to people who understand quantum physics so understand, like the really leading edge of science,
00:55:52.440 --> 00:56:22.419 Daniel Pinchbeck: that it seems to all be folding back into sort of this ancient mystical view of reality, and that to me. Yeah, exciting. By the way, since I see where we have one minute to end. I got a note on the thing here. I just want to mention that my main creative outlet right now is my newsletter. So people are interested in in the sort of following up on these ideas and continuing with them. It's Daniel Pinch back sub-stackcom. And um yeah, I mean, there's there's a paid level on a free level of subscription. But I try to get a lot of content
00:56:22.430 --> 00:56:38.789 Daniel Pinchbeck: for the free subscription. And yeah, it seems like it's having an effect on you, as you seem to be quoting them so. Yes, I I I actually to mention you to a lot of my friends and stuff, and what I've learned. And also just if people want to just learn a little bit more about you and your books, What's your website
00:56:38.980 --> 00:57:08.830 Daniel Pinchbeck: uh? The website is a pinchbec io, and also I have a course platform which is limited on news. I do like a writing class and other lectures and different topics uh, and then the books are breaking open the head. Two thousand and twelve. They're sort of catch some quaddle. How soon is now, when plan stream afterlife uh the cold control system and a few others. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, wonderful. Thank you, Daniel. And And we'll have links to all that in in the show notes. Um. And I also see that my loyal listeners, Paddy S. And I, William, the role
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:15.029 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: on the on the youtube live going like I have to re-watch this. I'm like taking notes. I can't.
00:57:15.040 --> 00:57:45.030 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I would. There's probably of too much information. You know. To share. It's like. What do you do you know. Yeah, exactly. Well, well, Daniel, it's been wonderful to reconnect. Thank you so much for taking time and scheduling. I like your your your seat of life framing there. Thank you. Thank you. I get a lot of good comments on it, and and please keep up the good work. Keep up the deep thought and the the critical analysis of where we are. I enjoyed a lot, and I I try and spread it as much as
00:57:45.040 --> 00:58:14.130 Sam Liebowitz | The Conscious Consultant: I can. That's very sweet. Thanks so much. All right. You got it and thank you. You, my loyal listeners, for tuning in Don't forget. If you missed any part of the show, you can always catch the replay on Youtube on talk radio, Dot Nyc: And we're on all the podcasting platforms, Apple Google Stitcher, Spotify Pandora. I heart radio anywhere you find podcast. You'll find us. Take care we will talk to you. Oh, actually, we won't. Be talking to you next week because it's Thanksgiving um. But we'll talk to you the week after next. Take care everyone.