Mondays 7:00pm - 8:00pm (EDT)
WHAT WILL THE AUDIENCE LEARN?
- Learn how to stay present to the difficult conversations and actions around dismantling racism - which includes discovering our own blind spots.
- Understand the process of deeper internal listening - tuning into your sacred intelligence - and how to make choices from that empowered place.
Rev. Dr. TLC - Terrlyn Curry Avery - is the creator of Pastology, the cutting edge field that focuses on the synergy between pastoring and psychology. She holds a Ph.D. from Hofstra University and a Masters of Divinity from Yale University. She calls herself a pastologist (licensed psychologist and ordained minister) and is a transformational leader, coach, speaker, author and retreat leader. Rev. Dr. TLC has a unique approach to healing, transformation, and manifestation.
We will talk about Terrlyn's new book, Sacred Intelligence: The Essence of Sacred, Selfish & Shared Relationships , and of course, her podcast Dismantling Racism on TalkRadio.NYC. Terrlyn instills hope and provides comprehensive tools to move beyond symbolic gestures toward actively embodying what we wish to create—true racial equity.
Tune in for this edgy conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Sandra welcomes us to the 41st episode of the Edge of Everyday. She introduces her heist for tonight, Terrlyn Curry Avery, aka. Rev. Dr. TLC. TLC is a licensed psychologist, ordained minister, author, TedX Speaker, and podcast host of Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC right here on TalkRadioNYC. Sandra doesn’t know TLC personally but has listened to her podcast and has read her books. Rev. Dr. TLC talks about finding her work and finding TalkRadioNYC. She says that she knows Sam (Director & Executive Producer of TalkRadioNYC) from an organization that they are both a part of. Sam mentioned to her about doing a radio show a year before she considered joining. At the time, she focused on her company Sacred Intelligence LLC. Although she was familiar with the media, she stopped to focus on the wounds of religion. She mentions that it was after the tragedy of George Floyd that she returned to doing work on dismantling racism. Dr. TLC also talks about what identity or identities she leads with. She also talks about infusing race into everything that she does to help others understand how race shows up in different ways and how we can understand one another.
Sandra and Rev. Dr. TLC discuss dismantling racism. Dr. TLC believes that racism is a spiritual disease because it's when we are disconnected, self absorbed and it's about “othering folks instead of loving folks.” She says that racism impacts us all whether it's positive or negative. Sandra and TLC give examples of this such as economics, the housing market, and businesses who are diverse vs businesses that lack diversity. They also discuss the feeling of offense, shame and guilt that white people may go through or anyone who may not fully understand racism and the issues that people of color experience. Sandra mentions the topic of police brutality trending even more going into the 2010s up until today. To heal ourselves and the world, TLC says that we have to go to “the edge”; it's hard work but must be done. Dr. TLC talks about George Floyd and mentions the reactions seen with everyone but also the interesting reactions from white people. Sandra says that she also saw rageful reactions from white people who were saddened and angry about this situation. She encourages everyone to understand that you're going to make mistakes but learn, listen, and lean into this like you've never done before. Dr. TLC talks about taking things one pace at a time.
Dr. TLC talks about the phrase “sacred intelligence” and where it comes from. She says that it comes from the two things that she loves which are her love for God and her love for psychology. She talks about her three pillars which are sacred, selfish, and shared: what is your sacred motive for doing this work? How do you have to engage or shift your selfish mindset in how you believe if you can dismantle racism? How do you take who you are and help make the world a better place? She wants people to understand that racial equity isn't about being in the streets marching everyday or talking about race everyday. Rather it's a lived experience where you are conscious about where it shows up and ask who is missing and why things are a certain way. Rev. Dr. TLC also speaks about how she works with people to help with their fears and understand how race shows up in ways they don't realize. She tries to create a safe space where people can ask questions and feel comfortable enough to even laugh and explore the inner self.
Rev. Dr. TLC talks with Sandra about racial equity and how many people may not see how it shows up in democracy. She mentions abortion rights as an exmaple. She says that during the 60s, white people took their kids out of schools wanting to put them in private schools. Though, they couldn't get federal funding if it was about integration. But if they spoke about something like abortion as a relgiious issue, they could then get money. This idea shows how white people were able to segregate themselves. She describes it as when you take away from one group, it then impacts us all. It is power and control that hits hard because we are all connected. Rev. Dr. TLC also talks more about humor and integrating this when working with others because she knows how scary it can be to open up and explore the bias and other “edges' ' within dismantling racism. But she also mentions that you should also live in discomfort. Dr. TLC also mentions continuing to do training on dismantling racism. She is also currently working on rebuilding her church. She also leaves us with a message that we have the power to change the status quo. The power of one contributes to the power of community. You can find Rev. Dr. TLC at sacredintelligence.com. On the website, you can contact her directly as well as her books.
00:00:05.420 --> 00:00:08.540 Welcome everyone. I'm Sandra Bardman.
00:00:08.550 --> 00:00:19.419 A few years ago I wrote and performed a solo show called the Edge of every day, which was an exploration of the rough edges and contradictions We all face and grapple with
00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:28.859 the show hit a nerve, and the relevance of the topic would only grow over time more than I could have seen. So here we are,
00:00:28.870 --> 00:00:41.139 real talk with real people, sharing stories and perspectives that spark provocative invitations to leap out of what's on the edge of
00:00:41.450 --> 00:00:42.690 Down on you.
00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:57.430 Sandra Bargman: Hello, everyone! We are live in the hive. Thank you for joining me on this. The forty first episode of the edge of every day here on talk radio, dot Nyc,
00:00:57.440 --> 00:01:12.699 Sandra Bargman: for those of you who are tuning in for the first time. And for those of you who don't know me yet. I encourage you to check out my bio on talk radio and Nyc. Or of course, you can visit my website, Sandra bargeman, dot com,
00:01:12.710 --> 00:01:18.709 Sandra Bargman: and please tune in to any of my previous episodes with my inspiring guests,
00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:29.020 Sandra Bargman: As all my loyal listeners know, this show is about celebrating triumphs, pushing boundaries, and exploring rough edges
00:01:29.030 --> 00:01:44.490 Sandra Bargman: through conversations, and shared stories with friends and colleagues. It's my hope that we can begin to understand our edges, and What I mean by edges is those places where we are fearful,
00:01:44.500 --> 00:02:03.800 Sandra Bargman: those places where we are resistant to change those places where paradoxes and contradictions live in our beliefs and in our understandings both about ourselves and about the world around us. Those places where we don't want to look,
00:02:04.150 --> 00:02:16.070 Sandra Bargman: listen! We live in turbulent times, and we are coming to understand that life simply Isn't, black or white. It must be an embrace of both,
00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:25.600 Sandra Bargman: and the more we look within recognize our own edges and get real about them, the more we can help others to do the same.
00:02:25.850 --> 00:02:30.790 Sandra Bargman: That I fully believe can help to change the world.
00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:41.389 Sandra Bargman: So thanks again for tuning in, and without further ado. It is time for me to introduce our guest this evening,
00:02:42.220 --> 00:02:57.589 Sandra Bargman: Reverend Doctor Terlin Curry Avery, affectionately known as Rev. Dr. Tlc. Is a licensed psychologist, ordained minister, coach, retreat, leader, Tedx, speaker,
00:02:57.600 --> 00:03:11.030 Sandra Bargman: author, and podcast host. She is the creator of pastology. The cutting edge field that focuses on the synergy between pastoring and psychology.
00:03:11.200 --> 00:03:26.720 Sandra Bargman: She holds A. Ph. D. From Hofstra University and a masters of divinity from Yale University. Rev. Dr. Tlc invites people into transformation through the journey of sacred intelligence,
00:03:26.730 --> 00:03:43.640 Sandra Bargman: tapping into one's internal source in order to make intelligent choices that manifest the good of humanity. She helps leaders discover how their sphere of influence can change the status quo and dismantle racism.
00:03:43.650 --> 00:04:03.620 Sandra Bargman: She is the author of dismantling racism, healing separation from the inside out and sacred intelligence, the essence of sacred, selfish, and shared relationships. She is the host of dismantle racism on talk, radio and Nyc.
00:04:03.690 --> 00:04:14.040 Sandra Bargman: Rev. Dr. Tlc. Is the pastor of Martin Luther King, Junior Community Presbyterian Church in Springfield, Massachusetts.
00:04:14.450 --> 00:04:33.269 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Hello! And a warm welcome. Reverend Dr. T. L. C. Hello, Hello! Hello! Thank you so much for having me. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It is such a pleasure to have you. It's been, as I was saying in our preacher. It's just been such a joy to
00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:48.060 Sandra Bargman: do my research on you, and to listen in and to read about you, and learn from you, and begin to desire to purchase all of your books, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you. Yes, totally
00:04:48.070 --> 00:05:05.550 Sandra Bargman: so. Um. I'd like to start off with. How I know my guests, and I don't know Turling personally. But um! But I've known of your podcast, and i've, you know, just really been eager to listen in.
00:05:05.630 --> 00:05:10.809 Sandra Bargman: Have enjoyed what I've listened to thus far. So
00:05:10.950 --> 00:05:19.350 Sandra Bargman: do you like to be called Rev. Doctor Tlc. Let's go with that. That's what you go by on your podcast. I'm going to go with that rather than
00:05:19.380 --> 00:05:28.720 Sandra Bargman: so. How did you come to? She's got her podcast, as I mentioned dismantle racism here on talk radio, Dot. Nyc:
00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:35.700 Sandra Bargman: So how did you come? How did you find Sam? And how did you come to talk Radio Nyc
00:05:35.710 --> 00:06:01.309 Sandra Bargman: and podcasting in general? I mean, I can so understand it as a natural fit for you. Given your background in education and your pastoring, and you're speaking. It, of course, makes sense to me that it's a complete natural fit. But then again, it would make sense for me as an actor as a natural fit, and an interfaith minister; but it wasn't for me,
00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:13.569 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so so speak to how you came to this. And what was this? So I know, Sam, from an organization that we belong to, and what's really interesting.
00:06:13.690 --> 00:06:21.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sam had asked me about a radio show, probably about a year or so before I ever considered,
00:06:22.020 --> 00:06:35.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and at the time I was really focusing on the wounds of religion, and I have all of my workers around sacred intelligence, whether it's manifesting your greatness, It's all on the umbrella of sacred intelligence, and
00:06:35.470 --> 00:06:39.019 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I didn't feel like I had something that I was ready
00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:54.289 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yet to do a a radio show on. Ah, I had done public access Tv before, and that was around sacred intelligence. And I know people loved it, You know. I ran into people on the street who would say, Oh, i'd love listening to you show.
00:06:55.160 --> 00:07:07.460 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I stopped for a bit of doing media, and there's so many other things that we do, you know. And And so I was focused on really looking at the wounds of religion,
00:07:07.580 --> 00:07:10.299 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and when George Floyd was murdered
00:07:11.200 --> 00:07:18.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I returned to doing work on dismantling racism. I had done it for years, and sort of
00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:36.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: put it aside in terms of the formality of it. I'm. Always engaged in racial equity. Work. Yes, you are never put it down, but in terms of just the training. So once I really started, you know, getting back out there and talking about it more, Sam said. You know.
00:07:37.490 --> 00:07:42.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Have you thought about doing a radio show about it? And that way you can broaden your message.
00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:44.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yeah. So I think
00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:52.299 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: racial equity is really important. So I started the show. Probably actually it's been over a year ago
00:07:52.370 --> 00:08:22.109 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: over Wow. So you started just before I did it. It. Didn't work. You did it. October. Yeah, Because, of course, I've heard about your since I started. Ah, that's so fascinating. Well, and it's just you. You have a fantastic show and an an amazing presence. And yes, you do weave in of naturally. And of course you do all of these other understandings and this tapestry of all the work that you do your educate, your background and education
00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:39.109 Sandra Bargman: all the different hats that you've worn and pulled together to form this incredible tapestry. So this is a great Segue into the question that I want to next ask you is so many of my guests like you like me,
00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.790 Sandra Bargman: have had these very rich and seemingly
00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:52.619 Sandra Bargman: varied careers and twists and turns, and they continue to synthesize
00:08:52.730 --> 00:09:03.240 Sandra Bargman: the work and really unique ways and synthesize the identities. And it all comes together into this one
00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:17.260 Sandra Bargman: track, this one vision. But and it speaks so much about exploring rough edges and pushing, expanding our boundaries. But those identities,
00:09:17.270 --> 00:09:35.589 Sandra Bargman: those are those are all interesting things. So this was a question that was asked of me recently, and I was so fascinated by it. I want to ask you what identity or identities do you lead with in your day-to-day life?
00:09:37.810 --> 00:09:43.569 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, first and foremost, I leaked with being a sole, being,
00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:46.579 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and being called to a higher purpose
00:09:46.590 --> 00:10:05.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that I understand that I don't exist in this world just me that we're all connected right. And so I lead from that place of having grown up all my life with an understanding of God in my life, and how God calls us.
00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:06.390 Sandra Bargman: Yes,
00:10:06.400 --> 00:10:18.589 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that we each have a purpose, and it may be different. But God calls us. And even if it's in the same area it's something different. So I lead with that, because that's the family that I grew up in. Okay.
00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:37.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We were not fundamentalists by any stretch of the imagination, and we didn't define ourselves as born again, both. Ah! In the sense of born again, Christians, but we I grew up Presbyterian in a predominantly African-american community.
00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.319 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It was very tight-net in the South
00:10:42.090 --> 00:10:46.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Church was a critical part of my upbringing
00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:56.769 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So when I do this work, whatever work that I do, it begins from this place of knowing that I am a part of a bigger universe,
00:10:57.030 --> 00:11:11.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and that I am created from divinness, which is what I talk about with sacred intelligence. So I start all of my work from that place. And then, secondly, I would say,
00:11:11.630 --> 00:11:14.919 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: growing up as an African-american.
00:11:15.620 --> 00:11:19.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I saw the disparities that existed,
00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:25.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I also grew up, knowing how rich my heritage
00:11:25.100 --> 00:11:29.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is, and I love who I am
00:11:30.920 --> 00:11:36.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as a person presenting as a black woman in this world. I love that,
00:11:37.050 --> 00:11:39.329 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I always
00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:52.760 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: seek to have justice in the world and equity in the world. So for me, I love that you talked about all my different hats that I wear, because everything that I've ever done.
00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There's always been this lens of race,
00:11:57.090 --> 00:12:03.710 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so that even when i'm looking at things like education, and i'm teaching my classes,
00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:17.529 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I can be at at the college where I would teach, and i'm teaching a group of white kids. But I was always going to infuse race in there. The help students who had never even gone to school with a black person
00:12:17.540 --> 00:12:19.939 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to understand how race shows up.
00:12:20.060 --> 00:12:27.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I've in everything I've done. I've just infused it in there, because I think it's important, so that we can understand one another.
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:34.930 Sandra Bargman: Oh, my goodness! Well! And there's so much I want to dive into here. It It sounds like you have such a uh
00:12:34.940 --> 00:12:57.529 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a healthy relationship to spirit as a child as I did, and while my parents I was also raised Presbyterian, my parents, we did not have a big church life. We were very involved, and I had a time in the church, but it was through the music and the ritual that I was very attracted to it.
00:12:57.540 --> 00:12:58.730 Sandra Bargman: Um!
00:12:58.920 --> 00:13:18.639 Sandra Bargman: It doesn't sound like you're We have a minute to break it. Doesn't, and so let's just begin the the well. Actually, you know what i'm going to say, Dylan. Let's take us to break, please, because the question that I've got I can't. I can't. I can't ask Reverend Dr. Tlc to do one minute on it.
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:25.909 Sandra Bargman: It's too big. So we're gonna just go right into break when we come back with Dr.
00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:44.500 Sandra Bargman: Reverend, Dr. Tlc. We're going to dive into dismantling racism. And did did you have any kind of woundedness which is in your religious upbringing, which is another portion of your the work that you do in the world when we come back
00:13:44.510 --> 00:13:47.699 Sandra Bargman: on the edge of every day. Stay tuned.
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00:14:54.510 --> 00:15:08.469 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you on edge, hey? We live in challenging any time. So let's lean in. I'm Sandra Bgeman, the host of the edge of every day, which airs each Monday at seven Zero, P. M. Eastern time on top Radio Dot Nyc.
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:23.290 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Here in live with me and my friends and colleagues as we share stories of perspectives about pushing boundaries and exploring our rough edges. That's the edge of every day on Mondays at seven Pm Eastern time on top radio, Dot. Nyc:
00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:24.030 It's a
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:31.600 www.TalkRadio.nyc: You're listening to talk radio, Nyc: uplift, educate, and power
00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:46.890 to the
00:15:46.900 --> 00:15:47.910 been around.
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:54.060 Keep my brain. These are the days of No,
00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:01.509 on the edge of every day,
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:21.070 Sandra Bargman: and we are back on the edge of every day with Reverend Dr. Tlc. You know what i'm going to I'm going to hold off on the woundedness, and we're going to get into that when we speak more about sacred, your sacred intelligence, which and I love that phrase. So
00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:36.349 Sandra Bargman: the intersectionality of your work, which I again just incredible to read about, and all of the offerings that you do around this. You know what What I came away with was that
00:16:36.420 --> 00:16:42.940 Sandra Bargman: i'm always reminded of now that it's on in a huge way on my radar that
00:16:43.120 --> 00:17:01.980 Sandra Bargman: racism isn't a Ah, a black and brown person problem. And I think that that's been the biggest thing or an Asian problem or a marginalized communities problem. It's, you know it's the it's the oppressors problem. It is the
00:17:01.990 --> 00:17:04.360 Sandra Bargman: they need to be doing the work.
00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:20.140 Sandra Bargman: In addition to everyone else, This is not to say that everyone else isn't to do their work. But but but it comes it comes back to sacred intelligence. And this understanding all the ills of the world being this separation
00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:40.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: within from spirit and the common unity, the community of humanity. Can you speak to that? And when you started to move into very clearly, wanting to speak overtly about dismantling racism.
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:52.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Um, that's a great question. So I do believe that racism is a spiritual disease, because we've disconnected from our greater cells,
00:17:52.200 --> 00:18:07.389 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and we're in this place where we're self-absorbed, and it's about ego and it's about othering folks as opposed to loving folks and seeing the manifestation of the divine in everybody. However, you can define the divine
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:23.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what. I also think that we miss in this whole conversation. Ah, particularly when I think about ah white folks who will say, Well, it's not. I don't experience racism. I'm not a racist right?
00:18:23.270 --> 00:18:32.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I think that people fail to understand how racism one it impacts us all, whether it's positive or negative. It impacts us all,
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.280 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: hey?
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:52.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But it's there's a cost. There's a financial cost to white people. If you really look at economics of raising them. If you look at the housing market, who gets to own a house, and who doesn't, and how that impacts the economy.
00:18:52.080 --> 00:19:07.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There are people much more fluent than I am who talk about this. But look at it that way, and look at it in businesses. Exactly the most diverse are the ones that are most productive. Exactly. All of my business leaders I have on. Say exactly that
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:08.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: this is
00:19:08.800 --> 00:19:19.319 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because you're missing out on so much talent, And when people say, Oh, I can't find anybody of color to be in this position. Well, where are you looking
00:19:19.330 --> 00:19:43.009 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right? So it impacts us from that perspective. It impacts us when we think about um, even just from our mental health place an emotional place of what white people experience when they're not connected when they want to have a conversation, for instance, about race, but they're too afraid, and they live in that place of fear, or, worse yet,
00:19:43.020 --> 00:19:50.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Shame! Yes, gills. Oh, I I have to interject here I must. The shame and the guilt
00:19:52.100 --> 00:20:11.960 Sandra Bargman: around. Two thousand and thirteen, fourteen, fifteen. I was really noticing that the increase because it was coming on our radar. Increase me as a white person's radar. Thank you very much of the increase what appeared to be, but it was just because it was in the news, more
00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:30.229 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of police brutality, and I was noticing it in the news all over my Facebook. All of my whole entire social media and people getting into rages and ah, and fighting about this and and the white people
00:20:30.370 --> 00:20:50.359 Sandra Bargman: getting taking a fence at all of it which I was, it was, exploded my mind, for so many reasons about what bubble I lived, in, what New York City bubble I lived in, what white persons bubble. I lived in, et cetera, but I I was shocked at
00:20:50.430 --> 00:21:06.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the taking of offense and and hearing you say the shame and the guilt, and the connection of that with shame and guilt and resistance to learning about all of this, and in bidding White privilege well and and so all of that
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:20.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right and that cost that really is the cost. The other thing that I hear why people say all the time I just had a conversation with another white woman about this earlier today who was really annoyed with another white woman for saying this,
00:21:20.690 --> 00:21:31.069 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that, like I just can't do this work because it's too overwhelming, and it's draining. And she said, It just makes me so mad because think about what people of color
00:21:31.810 --> 00:21:32.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we live it.
00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:40.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, you get to walk away from it, White person. But I think that even with that walking away, because once you've been awakened
00:21:40.860 --> 00:21:56.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when you walk away it's still going to eat at you to close it off. We can't wait for another, George Floyd, because, like you said, in two thousand and thirteen, one thousand four hundred and fifty, actually in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:08.379 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When President Obama came in there. Was it It started then, I mean, of course it did Look at Trayvon, Martin, and all of that. And so here's the thing.
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:18.789 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What was happening when George Floyd was murdered? People are like Oh, my gosh! But I think people paid more attention to it for two reasons:
00:22:18.860 --> 00:22:32.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: one because we were in the midst of Covid, and and we needed something else really from a psychological place something else to focus our attention on right, and people wanted to get out.
00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:33.430 Yeah,
00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:36.589 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but the second thing is, it was so heinous,
00:22:37.610 --> 00:22:57.389 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and people couldn't justify it. See, I have. I have had white people say to me, Well, why didn't the police when the police shoot someone um at a stop? Well, Why, didn't they just do what the police told him to do? Oh, my up! I'm like, Are you kidding? We can watch that. We can watch that on video. Now they did do
00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:08.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: every single thing that they were asked right. Well, one woman said it to me when the man was walking like this and got shot in the back.
00:23:09.290 --> 00:23:20.829 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So this is. This is what I'm talking about about waking up and deciding that you're going to live on the edge, because this is hard work,
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:33.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but it's necessary work if we are going to heal our own souls. And if we're going to heal this world, we have to be willing to go to the edge. Indeed,
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:43.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and sometimes we might have to step over the edge just to just go right over, just fall right over and expect that the wisdom,
00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:52.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: knowledge, and the growth will meet us. Yes, and the mentoring
00:23:53.510 --> 00:23:59.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: mansion will meet us, you know. Can I just say one other quick thing.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So when George Floyd was murdered,
00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:06.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I saw a lot of white people
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in Toronto
00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:15.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: angry, crying couldn't believe that this was happening,
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:25.129 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: whereas and they would come to me and say, Oh, my gosh! If i'm feeling this way, you must be feeling blah blah blah, I said, I didn't just wake up black today.
00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:27.559 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I've always known this.
00:24:27.570 --> 00:24:39.039 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: None of this surprises me. But was I saddened by it, of course. But here's what I want to say. If people come to the edge, and they do this work every day.
00:24:39.930 --> 00:24:45.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Then, when something like George Floyd happens again,
00:24:45.290 --> 00:24:59.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the emotions that one experience are very different. The intensity is different, and you're not reactive. You simply go into responding.
00:24:59.340 --> 00:25:19.689 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So for those people who saw what happened to George Floyd and I never watched the video by the way, but for the people who saw it, and they kept watching it over and over and over again they would be so intense that they worked so hard that they got burn out. What I asked people to do in this work on dismantling racism is, be consistent, as
00:25:19.700 --> 00:25:20.630 it's a
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:22.539 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in your commitment,
00:25:22.590 --> 00:25:39.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so that when something happens you know how to move within the flow of that you've already prepared yourself psychologically and emotionally, and you have your community of support that's in danger. Well, totally, I think
00:25:39.940 --> 00:25:52.840 Sandra Bargman: you know, and I to some extent I would put myself in this category. It's it's for those, and i'll speak as i'm a part of that bubble for those of us that were in that bubble that knew of
00:25:53.520 --> 00:26:04.659 Sandra Bargman: that We're not completely unaware to all of these things, but did not, for whatever reason, did not understand the extent of it. I think all of the things that you
00:26:04.690 --> 00:26:06.489 Sandra Bargman: you already knew
00:26:06.850 --> 00:26:17.479 Sandra Bargman: the people waking up to it. And then Ah, George Floyd, I mean it really. I did also see a lot of of white people go rageful, and I think
00:26:18.550 --> 00:26:30.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it was necessary. But those of us who were in the bubble like the childish, rageful reaction, because
00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:36.900 Sandra Bargman: it is a lot of overwhelming. It is a lot of
00:26:36.910 --> 00:26:53.260 Sandra Bargman: how have I been unaware of this? How have I contributed to this? So all of those questions exploding within to you know, and that's what I want. My listeners to understand is to get
00:26:53.770 --> 00:27:09.980 Sandra Bargman: to get with those contradictions, to get to explore that edge and to stay present to that awkwardness, and be willing to ask seemingly stupid questions and seemingly obvious questions, and to to
00:27:11.790 --> 00:27:25.140 Sandra Bargman: understand that you know you are going to. You are going to make mistakes, but to listen, to stop and to listen to the people of color.
00:27:25.150 --> 00:27:44.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Learn, listen, learn um, really. Lean into this in a way that you've never done before, you know. I just want to say I I totally agree with you there. There is a place for anger. And actually I began my book by talking about that anchor, because there's
00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:46.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: effective and righteous anger.
00:27:46.200 --> 00:28:05.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Right? Yes, information. So yes, I totally agree with you how to channel that. I Yes, So that's That's my point in this, that if we engage in this work on a consistent basis, we'll know how to challenge that a channel that anger.
00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:14.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But I also know, and we can look at the research now that if we don't wake up, and if we don't do the work
00:28:14.650 --> 00:28:30.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when something else happens, we go back into this intense way of doing things, and then we burn out. So what we see when we look at the research is that there was this really big charge that people wanted to talk about race. And now it's dead.
00:28:30.280 --> 00:28:37.460 Sandra Bargman: And now everyone just went. Oh, my God, i'm exhausted. And Yeah, And because you're allowed to be exhausted.
00:28:37.470 --> 00:28:39.609 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Um, hmm.
00:28:40.490 --> 00:28:42.580 Sandra Bargman: Oh, my goodness,
00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:51.489 Sandra Bargman: I just i'm going to have to have you back. That's very clear. I have so so much that I want to ask. But we've got to go to a break,
00:28:51.790 --> 00:29:04.940 Sandra Bargman: and I want to come back after our glorious break, where you, the listener get to hear about all of the fantastic shows that we have here on talk radio and Nyc.
00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:11.439 Sandra Bargman: When we come back we're going to learn about sacred intelligence, and hear about
00:29:12.040 --> 00:29:31.590 Sandra Bargman: continue to explore sacred intelligence, looking within, and how that we can continue to inform how all of us work towards dismantling racism. We come back with Reverend Dr. Tlc. On the edge of every day. Stay tuned
00:29:33.150 --> 00:29:59.939 www.TalkRadio.nyc: passionate about the conversation around racism. Hi! From Reverend Dr. Tlc. Post of the dismantled racism show which airs every Thursday at eleven A. M. Eastern on talk radio, dot Nyc join me and my amazing guest as we discuss ways to uncover dismantle, to eradicate racism. That's Thursday. At eleven o'clock, A. M. On talk radio, dot Nyc.
00:30:03.340 --> 00:30:08.590 www.TalkRadio.nyc: Are you a small business trying to navigate the Covid. Nineteen related employment laws.
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00:30:34.670 --> 00:30:51.189 www.TalkRadio.nyc: everybody it's coming, Dean, and non-profit sector can actually coming at you from my attic each week here on top radio that Nyc: I host a program in the land of the main coalition. Nonprofits in God does what you get every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story.
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00:31:16.810 --> 00:31:18.410 Chip in a ride.
00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:24.529 Keep my brain around. These are the days of
00:31:28.810 --> 00:31:31.899 on the edge of every day,
00:31:31.910 --> 00:31:36.750 www.TalkRadio.nyc: and we are back with Reverend Dr. Tlc.
00:31:37.010 --> 00:31:43.730 Sandra Bargman: So tell us about this wonderful phrase, Sacred intelligence.
00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:51.889 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Well, secret intelligence actually comes from merging my two loves, and that it
00:31:51.900 --> 00:32:11.749 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know my my love for God and my love for psychology, because I've always asked a million questions, and I ended up becoming a psychologist, and it's interesting because ah! I was raised in a family where I could ask a million and one questions about Bible, and my family always tried to entertain, and
00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:22.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they couldn't answer them, but at least they would try to entertain. Stay present to you. I love them Exactly. Exactly so. So this term sacred intelligence came from
00:32:22.870 --> 00:32:33.370 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Really, good friend, understanding my mission what I was trying to explain to her, and when I was doing a lot of therapy
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:47.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's the name I had for my practice, because for me. Sacred intelligence is about really understanding two things that we are loved unconditionally, and we're divinely created.
00:32:47.630 --> 00:32:59.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And within that there's a going inward where we tap into the greatest part of ourselves, where we can make choices that are intelligent,
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:02.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and those choices are designed to manifest
00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:17.400 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my greatness; while at the same time I'm. Helping you and other people manifest their greatness. It's not about solely saying, Oh, it's the choice that's best with me, because that's very egocentric unhealthy Ego but
00:33:17.520 --> 00:33:28.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's really about saying, Let's go inside. So in my first book on Sacred Intelligence, I talked about the importance of developing that sacred relationship
00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:46.410 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting with something much higher than yourself, whatever that is for you. And then there's a selfish part which is the reflection, the self reflection, setting boundaries, learning how to say no getting rid of unhealthy relationships,
00:33:46.540 --> 00:33:49.909 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: cleaning out your own psychological stuff,
00:33:50.040 --> 00:33:54.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that their third piece is the shared relationship,
00:33:54.850 --> 00:34:10.889 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: those relationships that we have with other people, and how to create healthy ones with other people, how to help them again to manifest their greatness. So how does that relate, then, to sacred? I mean to dismantling racism,
00:34:10.929 --> 00:34:22.589 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because that's my model, sacred, selfish, and shared. The three pillars that I talk about in my book is what's your sacred motive for doing this work.
00:34:22.600 --> 00:34:39.729 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And then how do you have to ah engage or shift your selfish mindset in terms of whether you believe that it's possible to dismantle racism because it starts with a belief.
00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:43.329 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, Then what's the shared movement?
00:34:43.429 --> 00:34:48.089 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Now, how do you take who you are and go out into the world
00:34:48.100 --> 00:34:54.939 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and help the world to become a better place. So it's still all about the sacred, selfish, and shared. So in my book
00:34:55.020 --> 00:35:08.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I talk about the sacred intelligence journey of faith. And I say, faith, because I believe that we have to have faith that it is possible to do this,
00:35:08.580 --> 00:35:10.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and we have to have faith in
00:35:10.890 --> 00:35:16.119 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our fellow, he would be a Because why else would we incarnate?
00:35:18.390 --> 00:35:21.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We're here to serve and and do this work?
00:35:21.700 --> 00:35:23.949 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's signed up for this party.
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:46.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know It's It's certainly we did, and that's what i'm like. You're in the right place at the right time. You're the right body, the right socioeconomic, that's all of it. You chose to be here. Not everybody can handle that. Ah, that understood. So So I try to be careful. Which settings, I'm saying, But but we're here.
00:35:46.610 --> 00:36:07.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We're here because there's so for us to do, and no matter how small, do you know that during the Civil rights movement there were people who made sandwiches for people who were marching, or people who were photocopying because it was. Oh, yeah, photo, coffee didn't. We didn't have social media to get everyone organized.
00:36:07.900 --> 00:36:17.089 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Exactly so. There were people who were doing whatever they could do to help the movement. They're people for my show
00:36:17.250 --> 00:36:26.549 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who will do things for me. Sometimes i'll have people when I have an event coming up. They'll say, Oh, it's no charge to do it. That's their way
00:36:26.560 --> 00:36:29.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of hoping in the movement.
00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:29.890 Yes,
00:36:29.900 --> 00:36:50.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so what I want people to understand the consciousness around racial equity isn't about you being out in the street, marching every day or every second of your mouth, saying, Oh, what about race? What about race? It's a lived experience for your conscious
00:36:50.950 --> 00:36:58.729 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about how in equities show up so that you're always asking the question in your circle. Who's missing?
00:36:58.850 --> 00:37:03.889 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Who's missing in this conversation? Who's missing in my all-white neighborhood?
00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:05.649 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why is it all white?
00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:25.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know. So that's what it's really about, and I it's what I want people to understand, because folks will say, Oh, it's too heavy. I can't deal with that every day, or I don't know enough. All I want people to do is raise their awareness, and we know better. You do better,
00:37:25.050 --> 00:37:33.190 Sandra Bargman: indeed, and awareness. How do people continue to raise their awareness?
00:37:33.200 --> 00:37:57.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: They listen to your podcast. They read your book, they take some of your your offerings, your workshops, and things. So how do you work with leaders? And how do you, and specifically how do you work with white leaders and white people, and begin to expand their understanding their racial consciousness. I love that phrase,
00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:07.189 Sandra Bargman: racial consciousness, and and and how do you respond to the phrase? I don't see color. How are these? You know all of these I know. I know
00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:15.379 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you're asking me like five questions. Exactly. This is why you have to come back.
00:38:15.970 --> 00:38:20.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So first and foremost. Let's see? Let's see. I'll tackle this one first.
00:38:20.700 --> 00:38:23.840 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Hmm. It's absolutely not true that you don't see? Color.
00:38:23.850 --> 00:38:25.229 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Okay, of course.
00:38:25.240 --> 00:38:27.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: How could you not see that i'm a black.
00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:33.210 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So to say that you don't see color is not true. What people actually mean is that
00:38:33.460 --> 00:38:49.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Um! I am not treating you differently, based on your cover, or at least they don't think they. I don't think as we are. So there's a lot that I could talk about in there. But really to tell me that you don't see Color denies who I am,
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:57.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that you. You know that you think that I need to just lend in into what is the standard
00:38:57.510 --> 00:39:09.689 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that's really been based on whiteness, right? And when you say I don't see color, it's not really about honoring me and my differences.
00:39:09.700 --> 00:39:13.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's not, and so I hope your listeners will take that out of their vocabulary
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:14.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in the meat.
00:39:15.020 --> 00:39:18.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Because then you don't want to even know about me,
00:39:18.470 --> 00:39:22.949 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and That's why, when I show up, if I speak differently,
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:24.689 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or if I dress differently
00:39:24.700 --> 00:39:30.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or wear my hair differently, you won't. Take the time to understand that some things are cultural,
00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:44.489 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and i'm honoring my culture by doing that. Or if, for instance, you won't, know that when I walk into a room, and I see um a black person that I know, and maybe sometimes someone that I don't know
00:39:44.500 --> 00:40:02.270 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: my tendency. I don't care if it's if it's professional or not, we hug, because that's a part of culture. But if the expectation is, I don't see color. You might expect me to, you know. Come in, and I don't know, be a bit more reserved, or something like that,
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:10.510 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: even though I have to say most of my friends white friends, whoever is my friend, they know we're hugging, and they're
00:40:10.520 --> 00:40:16.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so it doesn't matter if you got the memo i'm just using that as an example, of course.
00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:37.839 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But how do I work with folks. So there's several ways I do one on one coaching with people. Try to work with them through whatever their fears, whatever their unconsciousness is around race and try to help people to see. How is that showing up in your company, even with the best of intentions, and how we're showing up
00:40:37.850 --> 00:40:59.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: um what I do in my groups. I actually go through like I have a six week course where we take a look at What's the cost of racism? How to get over your fear of getting it right, because that's really really a big. I would think that that's at the top of the list. Oh, My goodness, it really is. It really is because
00:40:59.490 --> 00:41:04.160 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: people are so afraid that they're going to say the wrong thing and guess what you are.
00:41:04.210 --> 00:41:05.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yeah, it's not great,
00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but you know what can happen forever.
00:41:08.460 --> 00:41:09.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Exactly.
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:24.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Thank you. Yeah. And And so you know, here's the deal. You've just come out of the closet and said, I want to change this. And so, while I stumble through and learn, you're going to hold me.
00:41:24.110 --> 00:41:27.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yeah. But it goes back, though, to
00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:38.889 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, Yes, you have been saying the wrong thing, and then people have just been silent about it. But now that you've become awakened to it, the embarrassment that
00:41:38.900 --> 00:41:55.389 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, exactly the mirror. And so what I wanted to say is, you've got to be on the shame. So in the programs that I have, I try to create that safe space where people can ask questions, and sometimes we laugh together.
00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:57.220 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I would hope so.
00:41:57.230 --> 00:42:23.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I I mean, I love laughing, and i'll and i'll say, you know that was a silly question, or something like that. But it's because I set the stage for that where people can feel if it's. We don't say yes, and we don't judge each other, and whatever we say in the confines of that group is in in that group, and you know, like in in in in October, at the end of October. I'm doing like a two day
00:42:23.260 --> 00:42:30.980 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: retreat. That's a full immersion of taking a look at my book, but going into let's do the inner work.
00:42:31.040 --> 00:42:42.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What does it take for you to do this work? So it moves beyond. Just do A, B, C and d, because often white people will say to me, Can you just tell me what to do?
00:42:42.550 --> 00:42:44.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No, I can't.
00:42:44.900 --> 00:42:52.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I have a I have a class that I teach. Do this, not that. And so we break down. What does that mean?
00:42:53.160 --> 00:42:55.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Some things you just have to learn.
00:42:56.570 --> 00:42:58.359 Sandra Bargman: Oh, my goodness!
00:42:59.410 --> 00:43:10.699 Sandra Bargman: Ah! So much in there, so so so so so much in there. Well, we are a minute to break, so i'm just going to move forward into the break
00:43:10.940 --> 00:43:12.930 Sandra Bargman: when we come back,
00:43:13.250 --> 00:43:18.129 Sandra Bargman: want to speak with you about something that
00:43:19.590 --> 00:43:21.629 Sandra Bargman: maybe you'll comment on.
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:30.409 Sandra Bargman: That, I think dismantling racism is is the number is our number. One thing
00:43:30.950 --> 00:43:34.879 Sandra Bargman: we, as Americans, we as humans, of course,
00:43:35.050 --> 00:43:41.930 Sandra Bargman: must handle. But here in the United States, thinking about democracy,
00:43:42.150 --> 00:43:46.520 Sandra Bargman: I think racism is inextricably
00:43:46.700 --> 00:44:03.410 Sandra Bargman: linked to democracy, because you cannot have a democracy without an attention to diversity and attention to equity, attention to equality. You cannot have it, and we are here
00:44:03.560 --> 00:44:06.549 Sandra Bargman: at the edge of
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:16.609 Sandra Bargman: that of that understanding that there is no turning back from it; that the everyone is too awakened to this now,
00:44:16.620 --> 00:44:32.069 Sandra Bargman: and we are at the crossroads, where we must begin to make, do this hard work in a bigger way, and really begin to heal it and choose democracy and choose quality and equity and freedom for all,
00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:34.340 Sandra Bargman: or we can
00:44:34.730 --> 00:44:37.370 Sandra Bargman: step away from it and
00:44:37.850 --> 00:44:46.689 Sandra Bargman: dig in our heels in and choose authoritarianism and white supremacy, and and the continuance of
00:44:46.700 --> 00:44:49.170 Sandra Bargman: of what's already been happening.
00:44:50.600 --> 00:44:57.320 Sandra Bargman: So when we come back with Reverend Dr. Tlc, we will
00:44:57.600 --> 00:45:10.790 Sandra Bargman: get a comment on that, perhaps, but we will also move into what is What's next? What's on your next leading edge when we come back on the edge of every day. Stay, tuned
00:45:13.620 --> 00:45:30.189 www.TalkRadio.nyc: everybody, it's Tommy Dean and non-profit sector connector coming at you from my attic each week. You're on top radio, that nyc I host the program, the lab of main focus nonprofit steam cocktails which you can every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their stories.
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00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:48.489 Yc: at Ww: talk radio and Yc. Now broadcasting twenty four hours a day.
00:46:55.010 --> 00:46:56.549 Chip in a ride,
00:46:56.890 --> 00:47:02.659 Kick my brain. These are the days and no no rain
00:47:06.930 --> 00:47:10.049 on the edge of every day,
00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:16.840 Sandra Bargman: and we are back on the edge of every day with Reverend Dr. Tlc. So
00:47:19.250 --> 00:47:27.990 Sandra Bargman: is there. Do you have a comment for how I ended up our last bit, I mean, is there really a common for that? It's so. It's so
00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:30.540 Sandra Bargman: overwhelmingly obvious to me.
00:47:31.330 --> 00:47:35.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I do have a comment, and I and it's yes, I agree with you,
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:51.609 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I think that what happens is people don't see the ways in which racial equity is tied into a democracy or lack thereof. And I will take abortion rights as a prime example,
00:47:52.390 --> 00:48:02.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I had a gastron in my show who actually talked about how abortion rights were rooted in racism,
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:13.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and it came out of during the sixtys when integration began to happen in the fiftys and sixtys when
00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:21.219 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: white people took their kids out of school, and they wanted to put them in in private schools,
00:48:21.490 --> 00:48:27.099 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: um or different in school, and so they couldn't get Federal funding.
00:48:27.170 --> 00:48:31.269 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It was about integration and right
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:47.189 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: all of that. But if they talked about abortion, and it being a religious thing, religious freedom, and all of that, they could then get money. So that's how right people were able to segregate themselves.
00:48:47.840 --> 00:49:04.439 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Also, I believe that i'm not real clear about this one, but I heard a story on another radio show around the the Roe Roe V. Weight and the particular organization that still
00:49:04.450 --> 00:49:23.369 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ah engaged in helping women get abortions down in Mississippi. It was an area that was highly ah populated by people of color and black people. Right So when we talk about these issues, we think that they don't matter. But look at how they take
00:49:23.380 --> 00:49:25.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you. Take away from one group
00:49:25.520 --> 00:49:28.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: eventually. It hits us now.
00:49:28.300 --> 00:49:38.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Oh, totally regardless of what your personal beliefs are about abortion. Look at how many people are impacted by that! Oh, come and look at how many women of color
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:41.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: are going to be impacted low indeed,
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:53.799 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or going to be impacted by this, You better believe it. It's all about power, power and control for sure. And so when we say that we don't have to stand up
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:58.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when you don't stand up for one group. It's going to hit home. It didn't
00:49:58.400 --> 00:49:59.700 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: eventually,
00:49:59.830 --> 00:50:06.159 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because we're all connected, and the power is all connected. That's right.
00:50:06.240 --> 00:50:07.430 That's right.
00:50:09.740 --> 00:50:11.700 Sandra Bargman: Oh,
00:50:13.160 --> 00:50:17.530 Sandra Bargman: remember that, listeners when you go to the voting booths.
00:50:19.190 --> 00:50:22.619 Sandra Bargman: So switching gears,
00:50:22.630 --> 00:50:28.259 Sandra Bargman: you know It's funny. You brought up something. We laugh a lot in our in our
00:50:28.610 --> 00:50:37.410 Sandra Bargman: our workshops, and I loved that. You said that. And when when I was asked the question about what identities I
00:50:38.040 --> 00:50:39.470 Sandra Bargman: put forward.
00:50:39.790 --> 00:50:43.259 Sandra Bargman: Of course, spiritual leader was the first, but
00:50:43.540 --> 00:50:47.670 Sandra Bargman: just right up there with it was a comedian,
00:50:48.180 --> 00:50:55.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the sacred power of humor getting us out of our own way and disarming us.
00:50:55.900 --> 00:50:57.200 Yeah,
00:50:57.290 --> 00:50:58.660 yes,
00:50:58.750 --> 00:51:01.490 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: it's so important, because I think,
00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:08.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I can't speak for all white people. I can only speak to about the white people who I talk to.
00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:19.889 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I understand how scary this is, and I understand that people wonder. Am I judging them in the moment, and that's why I have to create the space to say
00:51:20.130 --> 00:51:31.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: this isn't about what i'm thinking, What is it that you think about yourself, and less move to that right. You know I am very fortunate
00:51:31.730 --> 00:51:34.429 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: at this point in the work that I do.
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:37.080 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Folks are self-selected to come to me.
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:57.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I used to do this work. People were there because they had to be there, and they would sit there like this the whole time. And it was so so draining it was draining for me. People had no idea, as a facilitator how emotionally draining this is for people to come
00:51:57.050 --> 00:52:07.509 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: um! And when i'm working with people now, because it's self-selected. They know that I can be direct with them, because I am also very direct,
00:52:07.520 --> 00:52:20.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but I could be direct, but they know it's going to be all from a place of love, and I will say, i'm going to challenge you a little bit sick to go deeper with this right? That's the time
00:52:20.600 --> 00:52:30.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I mean, that's and that's you know why we need to do this work. We have to move past. Yes, it's challenge, and Yes, move forward.
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:36.079 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's right. But you know what. I also give people um
00:52:36.320 --> 00:52:40.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the tools to help regulate themselves
00:52:40.100 --> 00:52:44.099 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: aspect, because that's the whole psychology part of it too right
00:52:44.120 --> 00:52:52.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that I don't just take it to the edge and the whole like. Here's schools to deal with it. But sometimes you just got to be outcome.
00:52:53.250 --> 00:53:01.489 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Live in the discomfort you've got to limit it. But that holy discomfort that is polishing you.
00:53:01.500 --> 00:53:03.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, pastor,
00:53:04.220 --> 00:53:05.660 indeed
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:11.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: indeed it is so. We We just, I think, Have
00:53:12.510 --> 00:53:13.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we have
00:53:15.110 --> 00:53:23.069 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: open space and open heart where we're there to learn, and everybody just kind of connects with one another.
00:53:24.520 --> 00:53:25.680 Sandra Bargman: Amen.
00:53:25.730 --> 00:53:33.610 Sandra Bargman: Amen, amen, Amen. And you know I want to take one of your courses to Btw. But we'll talk about that later.
00:53:34.730 --> 00:53:53.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So what's next for you? What's what's your leading edge. Um, do you have something that's brewing a new thing? I mean. You just came out with dismantle racism. Maybe you're still in it. And podcasting as we were talking about is is no tiny bit of work,
00:53:53.700 --> 00:53:58.909 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so maybe maybe you don't have. You know you're focusing on on
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:25.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: putting that forward and and doing your work on the podcast. But is there some project that's coming down the pike for you? Oh, ah! So I will be doing this for a bit um, and and so i'm doing a lot of trainings around dismantling racism. But I know we're at almost at the close of the show. But One thing that i'm actually working on is the rebuild of my church, which was fine
00:54:25.060 --> 00:54:26.309 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: as a result of May.
00:54:26.350 --> 00:54:43.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So, of course, I say that at the last minute. I as a psychologist, you never do that. But what? So i'm working on the rebels of that. And this shows people like. Look, this is real stuff. I'm not making up racism. My charge was burned out as a result.
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So this is why it's important to do this work.
00:54:46.820 --> 00:54:48.290 Sandra Bargman: Oh, my goodness
00:54:48.300 --> 00:54:50.140 Sandra Bargman: uh Amen.
00:54:50.150 --> 00:55:15.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So how do people find you? How do people find your books? They can find me at? Ah, sacred Intelligence! Dot com! There's a link there for the book as well. There's a link there for all of the work that I do. You can contact me through the website if you want to work personally with me if you want to have income in your organization. Um! But just do the work. Find somebody to do this work with.
00:55:17.860 --> 00:55:29.910 Sandra Bargman: Oh, my goodness so and before. Well, no, I'm going to thank you first. I'm going to just say, My goodness gracious! Thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:43.890 Sandra Bargman: Thank you for sharing your wisdom, your knowledge, your sacred space, your full heart, and your beauty with me and with our listeners. It has been such a joy to have you on.
00:55:43.900 --> 00:55:58.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Hmm. Thank you so much, Stan: Thank you to our listeners. Thank you so much for engaging in this listening, in going out and doing the work, going out, and and and follow up
00:55:58.510 --> 00:56:15.179 Sandra Bargman: and look and read these books, and and go over her website, and and move more deeply into this work, and look more deeply within, and be willing to challenge yourself. So before we we say goodbye,
00:56:15.380 --> 00:56:21.040 Sandra Bargman: Rev. Dr. Tlc. What is the last nugget that you can leave us with.
00:56:21.560 --> 00:56:32.669 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to remind people that each of us has the power to change the status quo, and that the power of one contributes to the power of community.
00:56:33.260 --> 00:56:34.529 Sandra Bargman: Amen.
00:56:35.010 --> 00:56:39.839 Sandra Bargman: Remember, you are always at the edge of the miraculous
00:56:40.270 --> 00:56:43.489 Sandra Bargman: till we see each other next week. Take good care.
00:56:44.030 --> 00:56:45.369 This is a
00:56:48.870 --> 00:56:49.960 is I.
00:56:51.970 --> 00:56:54.369 This is our
00:56:59.740 --> 00:57:00.850 I'm. Sure
00:57:03.100 --> 00:57:05.100 under pressure