Employment Law Today

Tuesday, June 28, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/06/28 - Pride All Year Round: LGTBQ Inclusion In The Workplace

Facebook Live Video from 2022/06/28 - Pride All Year Round: LGTBQ Inclusion In The Workplace


2022/06/28 - Pride All Year Round: LGTBQ Inclusion In The Workplace

[NEW EPISODE] Pride All Year Round: LGTBQ Inclusion In The Workplace

Our audience will learn how to make the workplace more inclusive for the LGBTQIA+ community so that employers and employees have a more harmonious co-existence.

June is pride month - a time of year where we acknowledge, recognize, embrace and celebrate our gay, lesbian, bisexual, and queer fellow humans in all aspects of life. This is an endeavor that should go on every month. For many LGTBQ+ people, inclusion in the workplace remains a challenge. 

How do employers ditch the "tolerance" approach and move towards embracing and recognizing their LGTBQ+ employees? 

Join us on Employment Law Today when my guest, Jennifer Brown, CEO / Founder of Jennifer Brown Consulting, and I will discuss ways to make the workplace more inclusive for the LGBTQ+ community. 

LinkedIn Profile:

Company Website:

 Personal Website:

Twitter: @jenniferbrown

Tune in for this informative conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Eric introduces his guest Jennifer Brown, CEO / Founder of Jennifer Brown Consulting. Her team designs and executes inclusion strategies that have been implemented by some of the biggest companies and nonprofits in the world. She is also a co-author of the book Beyond Diversity and has a podcast called “The Will to Change.” Jennifer says that she came to New York City in her 20s to become an opera singer. She even got her Masters in vocal performance. She unfortunately injured her voice and couldn't sing long term. Jennifer took what she knew how to do, which was to be on stage and improvise and transitioned into the world of training and development. She fell into the topic of leadership and was fascinated by organizations and how hard they are to change. Jennifer has had roles in HR and more. She says that she had struggled with bringing herself into her career. Being women certified and lgbtq+ certified, she feels very proud. Jennifer also mentions being able to be the most effective teacher, facilitator, and messenger for the work because she's now able to be herself and be authentic.

Segment 2

Jennifer mentions some challenges and impact lgbtq employees have in the workplace. She says that some challenges are a lack of role models. She talks about leadership and how people who have power and a platform to create influence and change have the ability to show their true selves and be very open. But if they don't show that, for example, with topics like these, it can lead to hiding, fear, suspicion, etc. It can lead to ideas of penalties because of the fear that others won't understand or allow our true selves and values. Jennifer mentions that the younger generation who are early in their careers and leaders are very comfortable talking about lgbtq+ identities as well as topics like pronouns. But there is also a lot of pressure for them to push the workplace to truly “walk the talk.” Eric also mentions the impact of fear and hiding from being your true self in the workplace like anxiety, depression, productivity and even employee retention. Jennifer mentions telling leaders that we have to reflect the world that we do business in.

Segment 3

Eric continues his conversation with Jennifer about the changes happening in today's world with the upcoming generation of employees and leaders. He mentions the changes also happening with the great resignation where unfortunately, he says that some companies still prefer the original 5 day work week in the office. But there is room for change and to listen to those who want change not only in this case but also in being able to welcome and celebrate everyone of all kinds in the workplace. Jennifer makes a point that “difference” wants and needs to be seen, because the “play field” is still uneven. There's an unevenness in the workplace from pay to other biases. She also mentions how we need to train managers in inclusive language and inclusive leadership and hold people accountable in their way of operating. Jennifer gives advice that employers give an engagement survey to their team to understand the work that is needed. It is to understand, address as well as communicate what is being done.

Segment 4

Eric discusses with Jennifer about her new book Beyond Diversity. Jennifer also highlights her book How to Be An Inclusive Leader. She says that what we really need in order to get where we need to go is the individual commitment that we can make to understand and implement diversity, especially those people who may have never had to deal with challenges because of the color of their skin or how they identify. She gives an example of how one can learn to even be open to sharing their own pronouns like herself. It can signal that you are someone who cares about this and not assuming that everyone identifies just like her. She also talks about leaders holding each other accountable and more about the need to respond to what's going on and the need for greater representation. You can learn more about Jennifer Brown by searching for her on Amazon on her author page at Jennifer Brown. You can also visit as well as to learn about her books, podcast and more.


00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:58.200 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Good evening welcome today i'm your host erick sondra i'm an employment law and business law attorney.

00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:05.670 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: hostess live weekly talk radio show this live video broadcast every Tuesday night from 5pm to 6pm.

00:01:06.060 --> 00:01:17.220 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: right here on talk radio nyc brand gets discussed intervals novel challenging and relevant issues that employers and business owners face during these trying times.

00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:32.250 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And, in the spirit of that purpose of my show we'd like to welcome tonight, very pleased with our guest miss Jennifer brown CEO and founder of Jennifer ground consulting she's an author writer a speaker and Jennifer welcome to the show.

00:01:32.610 --> 00:01:34.590 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Thanks Eric i'm so happy to be here with you.

00:01:35.190 --> 00:01:47.700 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Great i'm happy that you can make it as well it's great to have you on tonight, I think we have an excellent topic that we can discuss it's really relevant and timely and especially my two weeks in advance so it's great to have you here with us this evening.

00:01:48.810 --> 00:01:51.900 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Thank you, I know, especially in light of recent events will I.

00:01:51.900 --> 00:02:06.690 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): know we will unpack that together, and hopefully give some good advice for organizational leaders that might be listening to this and leaders of all kinds, because we are all leaders at some level and in some in some contexts.

00:02:07.980 --> 00:02:15.660 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: that's right, I think we will, I think we'll give that same level of leadership and knowledge and insight to the audience who consists of.

00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:30.660 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: As you mentioned, business leaders and also employers, employees and everyone, as you pointed out, can be a leader, which we'll get into as well, so let me just targeting limited value by reading your bio kind of you know who we're speaking with this evening.

00:02:32.010 --> 00:02:42.840 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: My guest tonight, as I mentioned, is Jennifer brown identifies and she her, she is an award winning entrepreneur speaker author and diversity inclusion expert.

00:02:43.230 --> 00:02:51.150 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Who is deeply passionate about building more inclusive workplaces, where more of us can feel welcome and valued respected and hurt.

00:02:51.750 --> 00:03:04.560 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: As the founder and CEO of Jennifer brown consultant which ABC a certified women and LGBT own firm Jennifer hundred team design and execute inclusion strategies that have been implemented.

00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:08.130 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: By some of the biggest companies and nonprofits in the world.

00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:23.160 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: She was also the best selling author of two books inclusion diversity, the new workplace and the world to change and further off of the book how to be inclusive leader your role in creating cultures of belonging, where everyone can thrive.

00:03:23.760 --> 00:03:32.130 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Jennifer has a shortlist winner of the wl of work and winner of the 20 $19 book of business and leadership category.

00:03:32.670 --> 00:03:42.870 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: She also recently co authored a groundbreaking book on diversity equity and inclusion in society with thought leader and felt that's another rohit bhargava.

00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:54.480 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: The book on diversity 12 not an obvious way to go, the more inclusive world is a 2022 action award Gold Medal winner in the women VIP oC category.

00:03:54.990 --> 00:04:06.060 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: A Wall Street Journal bestseller a 2022 countries creative awards platinum winner the 2022 for word in his award finalist in the multicultural category.

00:04:06.600 --> 00:04:16.740 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Now one of ink magazine 22 books to read or reveal the 2022 drivers podcast will change is downloaded by nearly 15,000 listeners per month well.

00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:25.920 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And she's a sought after keynote speaker and an expert for leading research institutions and business groups, she lives in your city with a partner over 20 years Michelle.

00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:39.480 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You can learn more at www time Jennifer grounds speaks calm with that backdrop, I think it's great to go to our topic this evening and then i'll ask a few questions for discussion.

00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:48.990 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: So our topic tonight folks is pride all year round in praising LG BT Q inclusion in the workplace.

00:04:49.680 --> 00:05:00.210 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And you know June is pride month and time of year, where we recognize embrace and celebrate our gay, lesbian bisexual transgender queer fellow humans, but all aspects of life.

00:05:00.840 --> 00:05:17.700 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: This is, this is an endeavor that should go and every month, but for many LGBT people inclusion in the workplace, remains a challenge and how employers fixed the quote unquote tolerance approach and moves towards embracing and recognizing the LGBT Q employees.

00:05:18.840 --> 00:05:28.230 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: What are some ways in which us employers corporate leaders can eradicate implicit bias and reinforce and inclusive and affirming workplace.

00:05:28.590 --> 00:05:35.790 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Whether through the use of language, communication and at conception and, lastly, what is the changing role responsibility.

00:05:36.150 --> 00:05:44.010 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: of an inclusive player for its all of its workers were the LGBT Q persons of color women, the disabled.

00:05:44.520 --> 00:05:52.530 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: In our other minority workers with the courts and government sell two answers efficient protections during these times so choppy so.

00:05:53.490 --> 00:06:04.680 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: This is a great topic for all they can relate tonight, I think our our audience will learn a lot from guests tonight, as I mentioned Jennifer ground co founder of Jennifer ground consulting so with that.

00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:08.340 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: First question Jennifer i'm a.

00:06:08.790 --> 00:06:18.360 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: tour all right let's do it opens up this part you know the discussion, the back and forth i'm going to share a people's insights So the question our first question I have for you Jennifer is.

00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:28.830 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: tells people about yourself, maybe having your career first starting out and what prompted you to become an advocate for inclusion in the workplace and to found Jennifer brown consulting.

00:06:29.220 --> 00:06:31.170 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Well, thanks for asking Eric.

00:06:31.740 --> 00:06:36.300 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): sure you know if this story makes most sense in hindsight, as as our stories often do.

00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:42.240 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So I came to New York City in my 20s to be an opera singer.

00:06:42.750 --> 00:06:45.360 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And I know a lot of people look at me.

00:06:45.450 --> 00:06:52.710 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): When I walk on stage I guess in the pre pandemic days and now more and more as I returned to the stages, people say, well, you don't look like an offer.

00:06:53.760 --> 00:07:03.210 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And that's that's the first bias of many that we we explore together me and the audience, but I am a small petite white blonde woman.

00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:12.300 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And so I did study opera and diligently practice I got my masters in vocal performance, I had plans to be.

00:07:12.900 --> 00:07:24.780 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): A career performer in opera and music theatre and unfortunately I injured my voice and couldn't really Reno couldn't really sing long term I knew that.

00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:30.360 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): The fact that this had happened and kept happening because I had several surgeries on my voice.

00:07:30.900 --> 00:07:41.610 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): meant that I would really need to find another career and I took what I knew how to do, which was be on stage and and be courageous and and in creative in those moments of.

00:07:42.090 --> 00:07:49.770 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): improvisation, as well as just performing what I knew and what I had studied and I transitioned into the world of training and development actually.

00:07:50.310 --> 00:07:57.600 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): I didn't know that was a career, but I had some friends who'd parlayed their stage time and expertise into this new field.

00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:09.270 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And I fell in love with the topic of leadership and it felt so relevant so personal to me, I was fascinated by organizations and how they why and why they don't change.

00:08:10.020 --> 00:08:20.310 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): How hard they are to do the role of leaders in that change, and I would subsequently get a second master's at fordham university and organizational change and leadership.

00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:30.630 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): and go on to hold some HR roles and then go out of my own and found Jennifer brand consulting and, over time, as i've been running my company now for almost 20 years.

00:08:31.470 --> 00:08:38.790 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Being you know the Di piece was always a piece of my life and my identity, because i'm a member of the LGBT Q plus community.

00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:55.140 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): But I had struggled with bringing my full self to my career, both you know first as a singer and wondering if I should be out and then as a corporate person or a lot of people are still closeted I mean half of us are still closeted in the workplace, but that's a statistic from.

00:08:56.610 --> 00:09:01.770 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And then, as an entrepreneur we I became a woman on certified and LGBT owned and certified.

00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:10.500 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): and very proudly kind of put that on my website and on my business cards and it helped me really I think step into the light about all of who I am.

00:09:10.830 --> 00:09:19.920 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And it helped that I, you know our firm is focused on dni diversity equity and inclusion, so I could I could sort of you know, bring all these pieces together align them.

00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:29.430 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And I think, be the most effective teacher facilitator messenger for the work because i'm able to be all of who I am now.

00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:41.640 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): But I definitely definitely struggled throughout as you heard in my story with the voice, with the ability to tell the truth and be authentic and and that really hurt me I think in my reaching my potential.

00:09:41.880 --> 00:09:44.340 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Until I kind of aligned it and that's what's happening in.

00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:51.120 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): workplaces and has been happening in workplaces all over the world is it's not a place of authenticity, it is not a place.

00:09:51.420 --> 00:10:03.900 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Where all of us is welcomed because it is such a it's so molded in the in an old way that I think is not has not been updated and it's you know slowly happening because of the pandemic, but I would like it to happen, a lot faster.

00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:11.100 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: yeah that's a great background surgeon, or just that good shape you're sharing with us your background, their experience.

00:10:12.300 --> 00:10:20.460 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: it's interesting you talked about the voice injuries starting to hear about that happening, but the way you're able to recover from that group rate and take I guess your passion.

00:10:20.880 --> 00:10:31.020 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: and your drive and the skills and talents, that you have being in front of people communicating and speaking and then pulling that into organizational change leadership.

00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:41.670 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Is are inspiring I think it's great to hear that I think a lot of times, people have injuries and Simon their initial career and then they have to find something else but 17 piece i've heard.

00:10:42.060 --> 00:10:49.980 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: i've heard about you know the whole eggs, of being your authentic self and feeling like it was insane oh needed report or stymie are not your fault self if you're.

00:10:50.370 --> 00:10:59.310 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Not out and then of course the the concept that I think you said there's the statistic or so, being a 50% you know the corporate work basic not being.

00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:06.060 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Open out about their sexual orientation, you know very understandable reasons which we had to tonight.

00:11:06.540 --> 00:11:10.110 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I think you know you're talking about just reaching your potential and you are authentic and I think.

00:11:10.650 --> 00:11:21.540 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Everyone, I never know who sort of became more in line with their authentic self that's when I started to really blossom and flourish and so i'm glad that it sounds like you've really hit your stride.

00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:29.340 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Just by reading your bio I rented out to the audience today my way of your your books in your company so appreciate all that background.

00:11:30.900 --> 00:11:35.820 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I have another question I wanted to ask you, of course, if you question.

00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:51.360 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: let's see and the question i'm also about a minute shy of our first commercial break wonder if we can take that break a minute early and negative term questions I don't ask you a brand new question and then break and 45 seconds.

00:11:52.650 --> 00:12:01.680 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: But I think if we can take that break, I will just note for the audience that you're listening to watch him play Milan today i'm your host erick songbird.

00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:14.910 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Our guest tonight is miss Jennifer brown CEO and founder dare program consulting when we come back we'll talk more about some of the challenges and obstacles in the workplace, that LGBT Q employees often face.

00:12:15.540 --> 00:12:26.190 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Including the detrimental impact that obstacles pose for the employer and the employee, I will discuss ways to resolve these issues and to create a better, more inclusive workplace so.

00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:34.620 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: there's into employment today with Jeff brown stick around folks will be back very shortly we own special Reagan back in.

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00:14:49.710 --> 00:15:07.290 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Welcome back to plan a lot today once you have your summer and my guest tonight is Mr Brown CEO and founder Jeff brown something she is an author and activist and tbi specialist leadership trainer and around.

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:18.510 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And Jennifer mentioned you those to our topic tonight was happy being about LGBT inclusion in the workplace and solutions you is.

00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:31.110 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: What are some challenges and obstacles that LGBT Q employees often faced in the workplace and what detrimental impact these obstacles presented to both the employer and employee.

00:15:31.530 --> 00:15:42.270 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): yeah yes, there are continuing challenges for so many kinds of identities that are traditionally underrepresented in the workplace, and so we can really think about it.

00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:50.160 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Through that lens so i'll highlight though some particular to the LGBT Q plus community, but I do want to always say.

00:15:50.610 --> 00:15:57.360 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): there's diversity within the diversity, you know there, there are both people have different gender identities and expressions.

00:15:57.810 --> 00:16:02.730 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): There are different sexual orientations there's also different ethnicities their different abilities.

00:16:03.660 --> 00:16:09.930 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So it's fascinating to to view this in in an intersection of way, which is what I just described.

00:16:10.350 --> 00:16:15.780 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And it's really important to see it that way, because a group of people that might fit an acronym.

00:16:16.170 --> 00:16:23.580 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Is it is a very diverse group of people, both in visible and invisible ways, so we always have to make space for that and we need to account for it in our strategies.

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:30.000 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So what makes it difficult, there are a couple things first of all, a lack of role models, who are out.

00:16:30.510 --> 00:16:39.330 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And who are you know i'll say senior So when I study the organization and I I study how change happens and and who leads it and.

00:16:39.690 --> 00:16:49.920 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): That is usually done, you know change happens through partially someone stepping forward, who has power and influence and visibility and Platform and is very open about who they are.

00:16:50.400 --> 00:17:01.500 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): and has the bravery to do that, and when they don't do that it sends a message throughout organizations that leads to hiding and fear and suspicion that there will be penalties.

00:17:02.250 --> 00:17:13.920 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know my manager won't get it, so I stay in the closet or I just conveniently don't speak about my partner, maybe people know about me but I don't highlight it I don't confirm it I don't elaborate on it.

00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:23.430 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Some of this stuff can be really our subtle way of testing the waters, and I think our fear which is baked into who so many of us are.

00:17:23.850 --> 00:17:34.500 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Is is it's not going to go well i'm not going to be accepted i'm not going to be celebrated and that fear I think holds us back to and it's something we have to work on in ourselves.

00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:48.300 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Because I do think sometimes more and more these days as the world changes and people become more comfortable with all things LGBT Q and it's in our media and it's all you know it's all around us, and there are more out executives.

00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.730 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): It is a safer time than it's ever been.

00:17:50.760 --> 00:18:00.480 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): But saying that I have to also say that parts of the US parts of the global economy and workplace are not safe, and in fact they're dangerous to be who we are.

00:18:00.870 --> 00:18:09.780 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So if you work for a multinational you've got to know that you may have degrees of comfort and safety and being who you are, that your colleagues around the world do not.

00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:17.970 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And so I think being mindful of you know that this hiding behavior the safety that we need and that we're afraid we don't have.

00:18:18.780 --> 00:18:34.860 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Where we work in the world and then and then our colleagues just common biases common unconscious bias conscious biases you know when we say something around someone or and you know who's in earshot of us and it's a micro aggression that we've never really.

00:18:35.610 --> 00:18:48.840 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): been you know given feedback on that can have a very chilling effect on someone's journey towards disclosing who they are so really the you know how do you listen to organizations So how do you.

00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:50.130 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): pick up on.

00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:55.200 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): what's missing, how do you provide that, how do you talk about what's not been talked about in the past.

00:18:55.890 --> 00:19:09.780 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): All of these things are the ingredients that go into cultures of openness, you know, but I think those circumstances have to be around the individual so that they really feel encouraged and safe and if they leap, the net will appear.

00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:22.350 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: To those challenges with a, you know as describing them just in terms of from clients of mine and business owners and employees and i've heard from people, but I have to say.

00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:31.740 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You have a lot there you mentioned micro aggressions and unconscious bias well that's trapped in a topic that's gaining more and more attention.

00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:45.660 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Among HR consultant and diversity inclusion experts, you know this idea that discrimination or an unwelcome work environment is beyond just like the most egregious obvious.

00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:52.560 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: hostility, if someone using a hearty racial slur or you know, a plasma a terrible name or.

00:19:53.100 --> 00:19:58.710 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You know, having a sign up now, it says, you know if you're you know effin blank don't bother applying in this job.

00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:08.190 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Those are usually rare smoking gun scenarios and there are a lot more equally equally damaging micro aggressions and implicit bias nothing to people say.

00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:16.500 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: The team stereotypes or or inappropriate jokes in the workplace and right, I think I think the Internet to pull it out for the damage, you can do.

00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:25.890 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And I think that that here you're practically can reinforce the hiring for the employee and then, when the employees, hiding and that out.

00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:36.570 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Their co workers don't get to really maybe challenge their own internal bias bias is because they're not seeing like Oh, you know the person I thought you know is.

00:20:37.290 --> 00:20:46.530 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Your quote unquote typical forget the face, you know lesbian or gay man or whatnot you know the person is not what they may have thought, some stereotypical you know image.

00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:55.800 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: So I think we talked about having communication also role models and that's really key I think we're having seen around us we're not saying to.

00:20:56.190 --> 00:21:11.490 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: themselves that's like, how do we get them to feel safe and as a company, if what does that play into this right like you know, make sure the seniors and safe enough, and then they set the stage for the junior people to come out, so I think.

00:21:12.510 --> 00:21:12.900 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: it's you know.

00:21:13.530 --> 00:21:20.400 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): yeah I think the younger people are really leading the way the younger generation and up and coming leaders are early in career talent.

00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:29.250 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): is very comfortable talking about LGBT Q plus identities and they're the generation that wants to be asked what their pronouns are and.

00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:42.840 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): expects that we aren't going to not ask and that we're going to be comfortable like we're going to understand why it's important and not just the the you know young people who identify as they would they them pronouns either.

00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.660 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): it's also all of the allies and.

00:21:45.750 --> 00:21:50.670 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We know the other word for ally as accomplice co-conspirators all of the.

00:21:50.670 --> 00:21:51.150 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: folks.

00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:54.180 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): In the younger generation who believe and inclusion.

00:21:54.540 --> 00:21:55.290 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And may not.

00:21:55.350 --> 00:22:11.790 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): per se, be the affected Community they may not be the affected identity and the way that they advocate for greater inclusion, because it is the way they've grown up in the world they've grown up in they I think they have stronger ally ship muscles.

00:22:12.840 --> 00:22:17.670 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And aren't afraid to flex those on behalf of or in solidarity with.

00:22:18.060 --> 00:22:19.380 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Their their.

00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:26.790 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Their co workers or a culture that doesn't talk about things they know how to use their voice and so there's a lot of pressure Eric happening.

00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:39.780 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): on behalf of that younger generation sort of pushing the workplace to be to truly walk the talk and not to say, hopefully, yes, to say the right things, because some companies aren't even doing that, but really to you know walk that talk to really.

00:22:40.050 --> 00:22:40.410 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know.

00:22:40.470 --> 00:22:46.800 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): put their money where their mouth is to really live it and breathe it every day versus doing it once a year at pride, or when.

00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:47.460 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We say is.

00:22:47.490 --> 00:22:48.870 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Is performative Lee.

00:22:50.010 --> 00:23:03.750 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know, giving you know donating a certain causes, but then when nobody's looking donating to anti LGBT Q people and causes and organizations, the ability is really in the end there's there's no ability to hide the.

00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:17.310 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Currency now because of social media and because this generation is so used to wielding social media to make things visible there really isn't you know tell leaders we've got to look at this you've got to.

00:23:18.030 --> 00:23:20.100 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): assume that you are behind.

00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:31.140 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): That there is no bias everywhere in you know in all of your organizational processes, because they weren't built with bias in in with anti bias in mind if you will.

00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:48.300 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So there's a lot of ketchup work that we've got to do in order to provide welcoming and psychologically safe workplaces for the incoming generation to get them in and keep them, which is the idea, the idea and and also to get the the workforce, we already have.

00:23:48.330 --> 00:23:49.350 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Two key network for.

00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:57.990 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): US and grow all of that wonderful talent, but if our culture is not sort of you know retrofitted or adjusted or.

00:23:58.020 --> 00:23:59.850 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We invented in some cases.

00:23:59.850 --> 00:24:00.180 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: To.

00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:05.460 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know accommodate that we're going to lose and go and continue to lose by the way we lost.

00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:09.510 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Millions of women from the workforce, a couple years ago in the middle of the pandemic.

00:24:09.990 --> 00:24:16.800 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): and think think about that meant that the system failed, and it was not prepared and we we roll back the clock so and.

00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:19.590 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Now the clock is being rolled back again yeah.

00:24:21.750 --> 00:24:22.080 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You know.

00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:32.700 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So so employers have a lot of choices to make I hope they make the right ones, and they lean into all of this because it's really going to make the difference between relevance going forward or irrelevance.

00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:42.960 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You know a lot of faith and confidence in the younger generation as well, I wish i'm no longer a Member, I can't promise that the younger person to say, maybe young ish but not so much.

00:24:43.770 --> 00:24:55.140 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Being squarely in generation X, which is my generation and seeing how he is gen gen Z and Linda younger millennials really think having taken to social justice, as you mentioned and causes.

00:24:55.770 --> 00:25:08.700 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Such justice in the work in the workplace as well, I agree, I think it's important to listening to them and to empower them and to follow their their their leads and speak and I think, too often, you know those in power.

00:25:09.750 --> 00:25:16.770 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: tend to be older and older generation, especially in corporate American companies they climb the ladder to be senior VP or Director.

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:24.810 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And sometimes when they're threatened, they want to just disqualifying this credit to that voice the younger people you know write it off as just you know this so called quote Unquote.

00:25:25.290 --> 00:25:33.690 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: won't get or snowflake generation, in fact, I see a more resilient strong organized group, you know marching to their lines and just.

00:25:34.020 --> 00:25:38.430 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: All kinds of great things they're doing out there for the environment, positive, so I hear you about.

00:25:38.910 --> 00:25:50.430 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: harnessing their harnessing their talents and harnessing your leadership in the workplace, I also think it's key to talk about like you know some of the benefits to an employer have been more.

00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:57.120 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Equal and more affirming of everyone again more inclusive, because you know when when people are hiding a feeling.

00:25:58.230 --> 00:26:03.960 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: excluded or or you know say threatened or that that safe they're not out as who they are.

00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:12.960 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I think that productivity somewhere else suffers right, I think you know more instances where I sit inside say of depression or anxiety, or perhaps some.

00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:19.020 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: addictions or substance abuse disorder may take effect right and people can't be themselves so know that.

00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:23.610 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: hurts the bottom line I mean I think there's a moral and ethical obligation to do the right thing.

00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:29.940 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: But even if they if you're listening and you're like well I don't care about that stuff I don't care about what's morally right, I want to make the most money, I can.

00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:38.430 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I would argue that person that business owner that Okay, if you want to maximize your profits and keep you know employee retention to a high.

00:26:38.850 --> 00:26:55.860 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Then, make sure that you're not alienating you know, a large portion of your transgender bisexual gay, lesbian workforce and, as you mentioned, people of color you know this it's a big umbrella it's not just like LGBT Q or ready for women to cover that you know disabled yeah.

00:26:56.430 --> 00:27:04.020 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): I mean, I would add them it's perfect and I know we'll go on a break in a moment, but but I tell employers as we've got to reflect the world that we do business in.

00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:07.260 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And we right now we don't you know our.

00:27:07.320 --> 00:27:16.260 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Creative table our product design our marketing decisions don't reflect, especially as you move up and look at the top of organizations, perhaps.

00:27:16.260 --> 00:27:26.520 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Like the top third right it doesn't look like the world and those missed those missed opportunities the the lack of understanding of lived experience the representation of what people really want to see and.

00:27:26.760 --> 00:27:35.760 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): How they want to be spoken to when they buy your product or engage with your organization those those mismatches really, really drive on the bottom line.

00:27:35.850 --> 00:27:38.010 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And that's another imperative.

00:27:38.430 --> 00:27:47.670 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): For how you know we how and why we need to work for us that looks like that diversifying world it's so critical and again relevance right.

00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.300 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We can't lose folks we need them at the table, creating.

00:27:51.570 --> 00:28:00.840 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): generating ideas checking our checking our intuition about like how to represent certain communities, identity and um yeah I think that's a really key business case.

00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:10.440 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Absolutely absolutely you know next commercial break when we come back folks will have more Jennifer on.

00:28:11.550 --> 00:28:20.460 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: The show we want to talk about how some companies recently have stepped up to provide inclusion and support for the LGBT Q and a minority workers.

00:28:20.760 --> 00:28:34.020 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And also companies have dropped the ball and we'll talk about you know what to do in this regard and respect so stay tuned we've got a great show tonight so still going going on on target my co host Eric Sabra and we will be right back.

00:28:38.850 --> 00:28:39.840 To the new podcast.

00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:44.970 gateway to the smokies it airs on talk radio dot nyc every Tuesday night.

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00:29:37.860 --> 00:29:48.660 Small Business trying to navigate the coven 19 related employment laws Hello i'm Eric savoured employment law business law attorney and host of the new radio show employment law today.

00:29:49.320 --> 00:30:01.980 On my show who have guests, to discuss the common employment law challenges business owners are facing during these trying times tune in on Tuesday things from 5pm to 6pm Eastern time on talk radio dot nyc.

00:30:06.810 --> 00:30:15.540 you're listening to talk radio nyc at www talk radio dot nyc now broadcasting 24 hours a day.

00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:48.750 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: folks welcome back to employment law today i'm your host erick solver i'm an employment law attorneys so topics around employment and the workplace are very near and dear to my heart.

00:30:49.230 --> 00:30:52.380 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And you with me tonight, and I can see is dear to her heart as well.

00:30:52.860 --> 00:31:03.150 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Is miss Jennifer brown she identifies as she or a nurse and Jennifer is the CEO and founder of general ground can something she is a diversity inclusion ddi that is.

00:31:04.050 --> 00:31:13.770 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: A consultant and somebody who helps with leadership and i'm really glad that she's joining us this evening and the timing, to the last Tuesday of the month, you know the end the talent.

00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:23.340 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: of pride month and after the big pre the city, this weekend so it's good to have you on, and I think I mentioned in the topic, you know pride should be.

00:31:24.150 --> 00:31:32.400 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Every month right and that's the whole thing about you mentioned earlier, this idea that a company has to do more lip service it can't just be like we know when to take our company logo.

00:31:32.760 --> 00:31:41.610 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And they get renewed covenant from June 1 to June 30 right and maybe, will you know put out a few nice words the tweets of them will go back to be sent you know.

00:31:42.300 --> 00:31:54.630 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Working with partners other corporations, who are not LGBT friendly or knowing you know gender disparities in the workplace, so I just think it's really great that we're having this conversation, you know tonight on the show.

00:31:54.930 --> 00:31:57.090 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): me too me too thanks Eric for having me.

00:31:57.930 --> 00:32:05.700 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Sure interesting Jennifer you know before it's nice question, something that you said it kind of reminded me the same idea it's not about the younger generation.

00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:19.830 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And how, in your observations in the workplace and they seem to be much more insane vocal about the social justice and equality and about the LGBT Q, we don't work as being embraced and celebrated you know we're moving away from this archaic.

00:32:20.850 --> 00:32:29.310 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Really messed up language I remember from the early 90s, you know, and even more so called allies, you know would use the phrase of tolerance right, we have to tolerate.

00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:33.630 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You know demonizing people, which you know, as I said to you that we spoke, the other day.

00:32:34.020 --> 00:32:41.190 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: It always struck me as such a weird phrase, because you told me like a canker sores all goes well, you told me to call you you put up there, thank you, no, thank you do.

00:32:41.430 --> 00:32:50.520 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You think you know you know you accept you kind of brace for it, you don't really welcome, but no one ever said, you know I am three and 29 powering them quite well you know it's.

00:32:51.150 --> 00:32:59.250 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Your embrace them you love me a power to them, so I think the language is changing, but when you talk about just one thing I was saying, the younger generation, you know, adapting.

00:32:59.910 --> 00:33:05.610 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: To change i've noticed that, with your resignation and work from home, you know, like it seems as if.

00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:14.100 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: The world is changing and companies and this audience tonight, listening to the audience if you're a company business owner and acquire you're not.

00:33:15.030 --> 00:33:22.380 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Changing with the times and it can be very dire you know you have to really listen to you and read the writing on the wall about changes in.

00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:32.040 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Justice, social justice and what your workers want in the power dynamic between you, because i've seen companies that you know there's still insisting on a five day in office work week.

00:33:32.820 --> 00:33:38.340 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And losing good talent, because that was great for decades, and I can understand one is a collaborative.

00:33:38.670 --> 00:33:44.370 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: hybrid maybe two or three days a week, you know, two and a half, three days, whatever because you want people to be somewhat together but.

00:33:44.760 --> 00:33:51.210 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: it's just one of those examples of how unless you really have to be there, people are starting to say I don't want it, you know.

00:33:51.720 --> 00:34:04.800 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Two and a half, three hours round trip every day, five days a week, I work most any computer, so I just pointed out that you know I think there's a lot of room to listen to voices like yours and of young people, and if people want to see change yeah.

00:34:04.860 --> 00:34:12.960 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We really We really do need to be I think guided and steered at this point because we don't know what we don't know and i'm saying we because i'm also gen X.

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.080 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: So I wasn't sure yeah.

00:34:17.190 --> 00:34:17.700 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Thank you.

00:34:17.970 --> 00:34:23.130 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): very kind but yeah so yeah we are, we are the original disaffected generation.

00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:24.510 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Yes, we were no.

00:34:24.600 --> 00:34:27.570 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): I love to reminisce about you know the 80s and all that but.

00:34:28.020 --> 00:34:30.330 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We you know we don't know what we don't know.

00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:47.520 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And yet we how we hold leadership positions, we have the responsibility to you know to be very, very aware of the limitations of our lens you know our generational lens we remember you know a lot of us grew up hearing well you're supposed to say and believe I don't see color.

00:34:47.580 --> 00:34:53.610 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): For example, or I don't care, you know who you sleep with you know just don't bother me with it or.

00:34:53.640 --> 00:34:55.410 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know what does it have to do with.

00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:04.200 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Business you know and and what we've come to understand is that is that difference really wants to be seen and actually needs to be seen, because the.

00:35:04.740 --> 00:35:16.650 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): playing field is still uneven, you know it's not there's still so many of us laboring in workplaces, where we aren't seen and heard, where there are additional obstacles because of bias.

00:35:17.130 --> 00:35:24.540 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And every day, we have to work doubly hard to kind of overcome those in addition to doing what we're being paid to do.

00:35:25.080 --> 00:35:31.650 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): yeah and not to mention the diminishment that we might feel every single day kind of hearing sort of often comments and jokes and.

00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.850 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): we're not hearing anything.

00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.930 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Hearing silence.

00:35:33.990 --> 00:35:41.250 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know when things are happening outside of the company and in our society, you know those things I call it death by 1000 cuts, you know.

00:35:41.310 --> 00:35:51.090 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Over time, it really adds up to feeling diminished and when you don't feel anyone's advocating for you, you aren't sure if you have any allies.

00:35:51.120 --> 00:36:04.200 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): If you do their private you know they don't follow up they don't follow through you know you don't feel like you're on the radar screen of anybody because you're you fall outside of maybe, who is traditionally.

00:36:04.650 --> 00:36:06.030 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): promoted and advanced.

00:36:06.030 --> 00:36:12.990 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Right you fall outside of that and whatever way, so this is really I think breaks that relationship that.

00:36:13.020 --> 00:36:19.980 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We want so much to strengthen between employer and employee and it's so avoidable.

00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:25.410 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Certainly that companies have to kind of go on a journey and figure it out and really we need, by the way, we need to.

00:36:25.410 --> 00:36:26.910 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Train managers.

00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:28.740 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): On inclusive language.

00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:29.790 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): inclusive leadership.

00:36:29.850 --> 00:36:35.010 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): and hold people accountable from a performance perspective so that Eric so that you don't get.

00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:40.980 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Some you know the mess dumped in your lap that happens as a result of somebody just cluelessly.

00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:43.740 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): generating and the way that they've always operated.

00:36:43.740 --> 00:36:45.030 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): But it's very turned off.

00:36:46.080 --> 00:36:48.510 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And I you mean it as an attorney with the.

00:36:49.560 --> 00:36:50.970 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: lawsuit exactly letter.

00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:58.020 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: To me i'm 100% you know this doesn't really good point about the whole slide basis of.

00:36:58.530 --> 00:37:04.530 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Maybe a wall intention, you know I don't see color you know I don't care if you're black white brown red purple that stuff people say.

00:37:05.010 --> 00:37:10.860 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Oh, I don't care, who you sleep with that kind of thing it's like you mentioned, you know people are different your i've heard people say.

00:37:11.220 --> 00:37:17.880 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: If you don't see color you don't see me right, because you know, like say i'm in a black woman or you know black man and and you don't often see also just.

00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:22.350 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: The even the way that a cultural difference might impact the way someone is.

00:37:23.070 --> 00:37:31.380 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: say you know speaks interaction or is how you interpret what they're saying, and I think you know that seems like you know color or or gender, sexual orientation.

00:37:32.310 --> 00:37:42.570 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: It actually almost half an effective meeting the person and who they are, and, as you pointed out it's not a level playing field and they are given a has I think is kind of an they even.

00:37:43.200 --> 00:37:51.690 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: believe that Oh well, you know we're all equal now because the legislation was passed in 1964 and speaking of which we will be reading the moment but.

00:37:52.830 --> 00:38:00.840 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I think you know if someone said I don't care, you know if you have you know, say, if you have blue eyes green eyes green eyes are brown eyes.

00:38:01.350 --> 00:38:09.120 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Typically it's not a way to screen i'm going to people I color and so, but don't says that, because you know the truth is it's.

00:38:09.540 --> 00:38:16.110 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: A non issue, but when it comes to gender and race absolutely I think language is important and you're talking about you know training companies.

00:38:16.410 --> 00:38:23.790 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Maybe a good segue into my next question about you know talking about two companies out there and corporate responsibility and the question I have is.

00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:37.230 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: What some companies recently or how some companies recently stepped up to provide inclusion and support for the LGBT Q employees and workers and have some companies, maybe dropped the ball on this regard.

00:38:37.590 --> 00:38:46.320 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): huh yes, I mean so there's a lot of social issues swirling around right now right as I sit here and.

00:38:47.280 --> 00:39:05.070 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And I think that i'm the best and most inclusive companies are and they're keeping a careful eye on the external environment and and paying attention to what is important and critical and life saving for different identities in their workforce.

00:39:05.550 --> 00:39:12.690 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know so they're not ignoring it or treating everybody, the same like eat the point where you were just making is the old like meritocracy argument is sort of like.

00:39:12.720 --> 00:39:15.090 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Oh, the best will rise to the top and we just need.

00:39:15.090 --> 00:39:16.320 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): To treat everybody equally.

00:39:16.680 --> 00:39:17.730 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Well, that would work.

00:39:17.910 --> 00:39:24.930 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): If we're all equipped, similarly to succeed, and if we're not facing you know unconscious bias unconscious bias honestly every day.

00:39:25.890 --> 00:39:35.610 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So, but companies that are paying attention to, for example, if anything, ever happens to something like gay marriage, you know which has been codified in the you know in our.

00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:43.650 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Law, however we've seen recently that some surprising decisions are made that actually dismantle protections.

00:39:44.580 --> 00:39:56.910 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know, progressive companies might think ahead and begin to prepare for that just to educate their employees about legal protections or begin to think about different benefits that can be offered.

00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:04.470 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Or how they're going to counsel their employees to just just feel protected and to be protected in the world.

00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:12.870 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know, and I think it's an interesting moment, because as perhaps political and legal protections fall away.

00:40:13.470 --> 00:40:31.050 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): What what our employer is going to take on and make sure that, at least within their purview they are stepping forward and providing monetary support at their training leaders and HR knows exactly how to you know guide the company through this shifted landscape.

00:40:31.470 --> 00:40:32.040 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So that.

00:40:32.070 --> 00:40:42.120 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know folks feel you know, feel that the company has their back, I think, at the end of the day, that's the feeling that everybody wants to have, like you, you know what's important to me.

00:40:42.390 --> 00:40:51.450 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): you're advocating and for me and you're ensuring that I am I am have fair access to all of the benefits, I need.

00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:53.280 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And this is not an afterthought.

00:40:53.700 --> 00:41:03.390 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And that you'll stand by those things and you'll you'll be in the arena, you know I think employers have to really kind of dig deep and say okay so.

00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:11.520 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Are we walking the talk, where are we doing one thing and then doing another behind the scenes, because that will eventually be exposed yes.

00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:28.560 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): What are our leaders doing individually on their own personal dime which I think is an interesting and fraught i've seen you know i've seen things come to light and leaders be removed so so anyway there's great peril I think here on many levels and and the only answer.

00:41:28.950 --> 00:41:30.510 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): is the right one, which is.

00:41:31.050 --> 00:41:36.750 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): protect your employees, think about what's going on in their life, think about what they're afraid of thinking about where they're exposed.

00:41:37.200 --> 00:41:54.960 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And you know i'm not just saying legally but i'm also saying internal culture and say what is the experience of belonging here like who who feels they can they can thrive it's an equitable system that they are supported or not, and all you need to do is do an engagement survey and.

00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:56.880 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): cut the data usually by identity.

00:41:57.060 --> 00:42:03.630 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And all that stuff will show up and you'll be might be shocked and say wow we have a lot of work to do, which is most of the time.

00:42:03.630 --> 00:42:17.520 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): What happens, but please you know gather information from your workforce around these things and be relentlessly investigating and then and then addressing as much as you possibly can communicate about what you're doing.

00:42:17.970 --> 00:42:26.490 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And really know that in doing this, you are literally updating your operating system and your company, I mean you've got to do it and, most of us are really behind.

00:42:27.600 --> 00:42:35.640 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: yeah Jen different it's really you know so true, I think I mean it kind of ties to the other question I have for you, which you just open it just now.

00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:45.180 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: decide, you know if you overturning roe V Wade and always potential going back possibly of gay marriage listen to your parents Thomas speak these days horrible things that are happening.

00:42:45.930 --> 00:42:49.920 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: We have become the question becomes What role is the employer, the company, what kind of.

00:42:50.310 --> 00:42:56.220 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: The social responsibility we're kind of it's a responsibility to their employees, you know they want to keep people feeling included.

00:42:56.490 --> 00:43:05.370 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: and welcome and safe to come out and be themselves, their authentic selves you can be happy and productive and and they feel better and the company does better so when when.

00:43:06.120 --> 00:43:14.940 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: There are so many ways to do that and, like you said it's not just about legal issues and certainly legal employment lawyers come up to the forefront, for example, say if you're a company that gave.

00:43:15.750 --> 00:43:24.630 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Marriage benefit rights to say you know domestic partners let's say just to married folks right and then people cannot get married anymore it starts with that happens nope none.

00:43:24.930 --> 00:43:31.200 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Right in a gay marriage right and then do you pride same sex Union benefits that you would to.

00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:38.370 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: A married couple of employees, even if the law says you don't have to in certain States, how do you have a company writes about that.

00:43:38.640 --> 00:43:44.670 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You know i'm reading about companies that are paying for their employees to get travel expenses in the motion in a safe state.

00:43:45.120 --> 00:43:57.600 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And to me that show the secrets of women that you know hey right we respect you, we are trying to look out for you in light of what's happening is this one interpretation some companies that they're doing that, hopefully, not just for the publicity and PR.

00:43:58.890 --> 00:44:02.970 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: But I do believe you can do things for good press and good motivation, at the same time right.

00:44:05.220 --> 00:44:07.740 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And you and you should brag about what you have.

00:44:08.040 --> 00:44:09.450 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): That you're offering because it's a.

00:44:09.870 --> 00:44:21.480 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: differentiator and actually maybe even as far as your competition and say hey you know what you know it starbucks is it doing this, maybe you know we you know peet's coffee, whatever the other team might be viewed as well.

00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:30.090 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I think that preparation, you mentioned, this is a great time these concrete, you know we were talking about the the sort of the lofty ideals of what we're aspiring for, but how do we get there.

00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:38.490 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: We get there through um you mentioned like gathering informational surveys and and communication with employees and education about what the issues are, I think that.

00:44:38.850 --> 00:44:43.920 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Education should go both ways I think leaders to encourage their employees to educate them right.

00:44:44.310 --> 00:44:52.890 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: What is the mission why your pronouns important you know i've heard people have different generations say you know I don't understand the pronoun thing right, you know you know.

00:44:53.550 --> 00:45:02.070 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: My generation and it's just she in him, you know he and her and she is no day you can't be both and it's like you know people that Oh well, I think.

00:45:02.520 --> 00:45:06.750 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: you're you're one of the other and that's my generation, where we think of things, and you know.

00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:13.260 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: generationally speaking people had certain language for African American people in the 50s that was acceptable terms that are now.

00:45:13.830 --> 00:45:23.040 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Quite insulting and the whole idea of like wow we do this in my day is not really it doesn't cut it, you know it doesn't connect with your employees and with your and frankly with your run.

00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:29.970 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Your customers and clients, you know looks most tone deaf commercial to come out or even turned up decisions like Disney and that's that you know the way they.

00:45:30.330 --> 00:45:36.060 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: react to certain issues involving transgender and gay employees, you know Florida, the whole.

00:45:37.020 --> 00:45:48.150 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Is the issue with don't send a bill, and so I just think it's interesting that you know you're talking about this issue and reminding employees to be educated and be mindful of what their employees needs to thrive assumption.

00:45:50.700 --> 00:46:00.360 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Absolutely I 100% on everything you just said, and you know get with them get with the program and do a lot of listening and a lot of them, let.

00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:10.710 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Let a Community tell you what progressive policies look like like what does enough look like, and I would say not just enough, but what beats the average what beats the required.

00:46:11.250 --> 00:46:17.100 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): The compliance right that's a baseline, but I think differentiating yourself in the minds of client of talent.

00:46:17.430 --> 00:46:27.750 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And you just brought up clients and customers, by the way, are also watching all of this, so great transparency means that everybody is looking to spend their dollar in a way that they're proud of.

00:46:28.170 --> 00:46:33.180 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And that that matters and that's that's not going away so that accountability is coming from all sides.

00:46:34.140 --> 00:46:39.120 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And it's not about what we think is right in our generation honestly because.

00:46:39.570 --> 00:46:44.340 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): we're going to miss a lot of things and we and we're not going to have the lived experience of a lot of other communities.

00:46:44.730 --> 00:46:52.680 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So the really important point about leadership is it's it's it's it's done in service of but determined by.

00:46:53.400 --> 00:47:04.080 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Others who you want to be in solidarity with and that's why that listening piece, and the consulting piece is so important to say what does equity in the workplace look like Where are you not experiencing it.

00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:11.940 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): What is your daily experience here, what do you hear what you see what do not know you wish you saw and heard.

00:47:12.690 --> 00:47:22.320 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know, those were that kind of data is gold in terms of pointing out the spots, that you will not perceive are missing, because you just won't generationally you won't.

00:47:22.620 --> 00:47:30.420 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Identity wise you won't unless you're just a very, very practiced ally and, unfortunately, you know a lot of us are still learning.

00:47:31.230 --> 00:47:39.690 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: So absolutely That was a great really great point there and great for people to sit with and process always take our final commercial break.

00:47:40.260 --> 00:47:55.320 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: When we come back i'm talking with Jennifer about a couple of different books and her initiatives as well as their company so stay tuned on quite a lot today i'm your host Aaron sovereign plaintiff attorney can with Jennifer brown I talked to nyc we'll be right back.

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00:49:55.260 --> 00:50:02.310 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Welcome back to employment law today i'm your host Aaron solver here tonight with our guest judge Joe brown Joe brown consulting.

00:50:02.700 --> 00:50:11.130 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: and wish I hadn't really great conversation I think about LGBT Q with retention the workplace about diversity and inclusion and also invited to that.

00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:20.130 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Diversity is more than just based on one particular group versus another that there are layers within subsets within each group that people of color.

00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:29.430 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: different religions different nationalities and reasons and so really great to have them for on show the stage Jennifer when you can be in spring competition where.

00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:31.770 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): This has been great thanks for having me here.

00:50:32.130 --> 00:50:42.180 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Sure, we talked about responsibility and employers and leadership what i'm wondering is, if you can tell us about your new book, but how do you let her movements more inclusive leadership.

00:50:42.540 --> 00:50:47.670 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: and improve the rest of the workplace and also want some key takeaways when you look at the audience for now.

00:50:48.270 --> 00:50:54.450 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): yeah Thank you I you know i've kind of landed these days on thinking about our individual journey.

00:50:55.020 --> 00:51:02.280 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): of learning about inclusive leadership, you know, so we do a lot of organizational consulting, of course, to build strategies for companies and.

00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:12.930 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): get a lot of people trained and educated, but at the end of the day, what we're really meeting, I think, to go get where we need to go is the individual commitment that we can make.

00:51:13.230 --> 00:51:20.820 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Especially those of us who've never really kind of clicked into what diversity means to us like, especially those of us who.

00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:28.320 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): May walk around the world and not really be impacted by the color of our skin or the way that we express our gender and identify.

00:51:29.310 --> 00:51:39.000 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Or you know who we express affection to we you know there there's an opportunity, I think, for some of us who've been sitting on the sidelines, to really step in.

00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:48.300 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): and begin to take the steps in, and I wanted to write the books I write and the model in how to be an inclusive leader, which is the book that I think we want to highlight.

00:51:48.780 --> 00:52:03.390 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Is is where, am I in my journey, am I in my unaware phase, which is phase one which is I don't know there's a problem I don't think this has to do with me somebody else is going to figure it out, I i'm not diverse, which is.

00:52:04.410 --> 00:52:08.070 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Never true if we define it as I define it, which is much more broadly.

00:52:08.970 --> 00:52:18.660 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): We want to come out of that unawareness into awareness which is phase two, and this is the model in the book where it's okay Now I know what I don't know now, I know I need to learn and need to get exposure I need to.

00:52:19.020 --> 00:52:27.690 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): surround myself with different information I need to you know dive into you know let's use LGBT Q experience you know what what is true about this Community.

00:52:28.110 --> 00:52:32.130 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And where do they experienced biases and micro aggressions and where there are gaps.

00:52:32.130 --> 00:52:33.600 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): In their economic outcomes.

00:52:34.410 --> 00:52:45.090 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): what's their buying power which by the way, as a community is like the trillions of dollars so it's important customer base but that really struggles with basic safety.

00:52:45.870 --> 00:52:46.200 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: You know.

00:52:46.290 --> 00:52:47.280 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Certainly around the world.

00:52:47.730 --> 00:53:04.470 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So so coming into awareness is key, but then the third phase of the models active, which is implies that I take that awareness and I take action, you know I started to lose my voice I start to broach topics I begin to maybe share my pronouns, for example as a signal that hey.

00:53:04.560 --> 00:53:07.560 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): On somebody on my ally journey, for instance, so.

00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:10.380 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): You know i'm assistant I Jennifer Mrs gender woman.

00:53:10.650 --> 00:53:17.160 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): My pronouns are she her hers, which means that you know my sense of my gender matches the gender of the body, I was born in.

00:53:17.250 --> 00:53:19.830 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): So that means i'm sister gender and.

00:53:19.890 --> 00:53:34.380 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): She comes with certain privileges which is, I can share my pronouns and there's no drama about it, because my pronouns communicate to people that that I identify as female and I happened to look female in the normative sense right.

00:53:34.980 --> 00:53:35.190 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: And I.

00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:36.720 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Other interview.

00:53:36.870 --> 00:53:37.110 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): But.

00:53:37.890 --> 00:53:48.720 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): he's not the bias to so but for me to share my pronouns is is an action I can take it signals that i'm somebody who cares about this and that i'm doing my homework.

00:53:49.200 --> 00:53:51.960 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And i'm not assuming that everybody around me identifies.

00:53:52.020 --> 00:53:59.460 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): As sister under like me and that's why i'm offering my pronouns so if we could do this just one example of an action.

00:53:59.880 --> 00:54:07.140 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And then, and then, if i'm really, really practiced my model ends with the advocate phase, which is phase more which is sort of that.

00:54:07.890 --> 00:54:21.780 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): That squeaky wheel that super confident very knowledgeable person who you know is kind of constantly pushing a guest guess against systems to change them right to make them more inclusive and.

00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:25.710 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Sometimes you'll meet someone who's just tireless who is relentless who's.

00:54:26.070 --> 00:54:27.390 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): knows how to wield.

00:54:28.140 --> 00:54:37.140 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Their their knowledge, their persuasive their storytellers there you know they hold each other accountable and hold themselves accountable, you know, so I know some executives like this.

00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:48.120 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And it's really powerful to witness somebody stepping up and even when they don't share and carry a certain identity, they are in there swinging.

00:54:48.450 --> 00:55:01.230 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): About unconscious bias, about the need for greater representation, about the need to respond to things that are going on, so you know so there's there's some of us who were pretty advanced but we're not always advanced about all things you know I.

00:55:01.230 --> 00:55:01.560 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Think we're.

00:55:01.590 --> 00:55:12.720 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): All learning about certain identities and we're all kind of beginners at the same time as we may have some more skill and muscle developed, you know about certain identities and not others and that's okay.

00:55:13.110 --> 00:55:14.700 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): we're all on a journey.

00:55:15.300 --> 00:55:25.770 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Yes, i'm so sorry we have about a minute and 20 seconds after a great show, I want to thank you for being I want to ask you how do people get in touch with you the floor is yours and telephone or website and then I will take us out.

00:55:26.160 --> 00:55:26.700 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: Thank you.

00:55:27.930 --> 00:55:30.630 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): yeah you know there's never enough time to talk about all these things, but I hope I.

00:55:30.630 --> 00:55:31.410 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): was what I.

00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:42.450 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): What the audience is appetite to learn more the books i've written our inclusion, how to be an inclusive leader and beyond, diversity, so you can look me up on Amazon on my author page Jennifer Brown.

00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:52.080 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And you'll see all these books and my second edition of how to be an inclusive leaders out in October, so please pre order that you'll see it up on Amazon, if you don't it will be there soon.

00:55:52.590 --> 00:56:01.020 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): And then i'm our websites are Jennifer brand consulting, which is the consulting work we do, and then Jennifer brown speaks if you're interested in having me come in and speak.

00:56:01.740 --> 00:56:13.560 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): Or, more about the books and the podcast, which is the will to change, thank you for reminding me about that and then all the socials i'm at Jennifer brown on Twitter at Jeff brown Jennifer ground speaks on instagram.

00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:20.520 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): On linkedin Facebook wherever so we're pretty ubiquitous I would invite everyone to just join our community get on our.

00:56:20.520 --> 00:56:27.090 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): mailing list attend our webinars there's so informational there so they're welcoming spaces, you can come.

00:56:27.390 --> 00:56:38.370 Jennifer Brown (she/her/hers): As you are with it, you know, with or without the you know the quote unquote right knowledge and we will have you we will welcome you into the conversation always so you know, please feel that you can reach out to us.

00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:46.380 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: I wish we had more time with Jennifer I think you covered it all perfectly a great way to encapsulate the ending there Thank you so much for joining us tune in for.

00:56:47.070 --> 00:56:53.040 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: formula today, Tuesday nights at 5pm on Saturday minimize see me oh sorry sorry Jennifer brown a pleasure, having you on the show.

00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:54.900 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: That we have a wonderful night a great.

00:56:54.900 --> 00:56:59.700 Eric Sarver - Employment Law Attorney: week and we'll be back next Tuesday so everyone have a great week, and thank you once again.

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