Extra Innings

Monday, June 14, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/06/14 - Forgiveness, Healing, and Change After A Loved One’s Suicide

Facebook Live Video from 2021/06/14 - Forgiveness, Healing, and Change After A Loved One’s Suicide


2021/06/14 - Forgiveness, Healing, and Change After A Loved One’s Suicide

[NEW EPISODE] Forgiveness, Healing, and Change After A Loved One’s Suicide

Laura Sandstra is from the small town of Rocky Mountain House in Alberta, Canada. After 15 years of owning a backhoe & plumbing company, she is taking a step back from management and enjoying some time of refreshing. Laura has suffered a deep loss of losing a husband of 18-1/2 years to suicide. Left with a company to run and a family to raise, she now has a story of forgiveness, healing, and change.

Some of the things that stir her soul are singing and playing piano at church, riding motorcycle with her husband, gardening, and cruising in her old classic truck with the music cranked. Laura has two daughters, Brea and Megan, and is newly married to Jonathan for two years now.

Tune in for this important conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

The show begins by introducing the guest Laura Sandstra who is a native of Alberta, Canada. She is 1 of 4 siblings. She was married for over 18 years to her husband before he took his own life. He was the type of guy who was able to help solve other people’s problems but had trouble with his own. He was a business owner with two daughters. Laura explains how he developed depression which contributed to his anger issues. He was known to chastise people worse than needed for the offense. Also, the two speak on how difficult it is to diagnose and treat people with mental health problems. Resentment is common and nobody truly knows what someone is thinking unless they say it.

Segment 2

The death of Laura’s husband Dennis had a big impact on the whole family. Laura was left to run a business and family. The two daughters, Brea and Megan, were the ages 12 and 13 at the time. Each person copes differently. One daughter enjoys being in the company of others while the other would rather sit quietly in their room. Laura and Brea were open to going to therapy right away. Brea is an extrovert and was very open with the counselor. Later, Megan was willing to join a few sessions but was not enjoying it. Next, the two talk about group meetings that people join to discuss their circumstances. Laura did not join one but Albert attended one recently and found it to be very helpful. It is a way for people to feel not alone and cope with their losses.

Segment 3

Looking back, Laura admits that there may be some things that she could have done differently in the past. For example, her ex-husband’s love language was gifts while that was the opposite of Laura’s. Previously, she was given extravagant gifts that drove her crazy but he thought he did not know. Now she can say that maybe she should have spoken his love language more and shown him he loved through gifts more like he wanted. Furthermore, Albert asks if any guilt set in after the death. Many people start to blame themselves when a loved one dies because they feel they could have done more. She did feel guilt because for the last month of his life, he was very difficult to live with and she felt relief after it was over. In addition, she felt guilty when telling other people about some awful things he would do.

Segment 4

As time passed, anger set in and Laura grew very angry towards Dennis for over three years before she started to forgive. Every year on his anniversary she would be angry but on the fourth year she forgave him. It was important for her to move on from the situation because Dennis was already at peace so she should be too. Years later, Laura finds out that the attempt on his life was not his first. He had two previous attempts. She remembers him making subtle comments about it in arguments but could never realize what he was hinting at. Also, Laura stresses the importance of sharing experiences with others so people can realize that they are not alone.


00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:53.010 Albert Dabah: hi there, welcome to extra innings covering all the bases, my name is Albert dabba I am a therapist life coach and a filmmaker.

00:00:54.420 --> 00:01:01.380 Albert Dabah: Tonight we will be talking about different subjects that deal with mental health.

00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:10.950 Albert Dabah: Extra innings is a show that I created about four months ago and we talk about all kinds of challenges that people have.

00:01:12.090 --> 00:01:25.380 Albert Dabah: Such as mental illness depression bipolar disorder disorder and all different kinds of anxieties and including the suicide, and these are subjects that are universal.

00:01:26.730 --> 00:01:44.490 Albert Dabah: The guests i've had on this show have been from all over working in all different kinds of professions that have had to deal with certain kinds of challenges and have gone through their lives and their journeys where they're able to come on the show and talk about it.

00:01:45.750 --> 00:02:04.230 Albert Dabah: Extra innings actually came from a movie that I produced directed and written and also acted in, and it is now on Amazon prime and it is based on my family growing up in the 1960s in brooklyn New York and what my family endured and all the different.

00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:27.270 Albert Dabah: problems that came up and I was the youngest of four and how I survived through the different challenges of my family I guess that's extra innings on Amazon prime tonight's guest is Laura Sandra Sandra she lives in Alberta, Canada.

00:02:28.920 --> 00:02:30.900 Albert Dabah: And she has gone through some of these.

00:02:31.920 --> 00:02:43.380 Albert Dabah: different kinds of challenges herself and she'll talk about them tonight and I what I think is really important is for people to be able to have these discussions, so they can understand that they're not alone when.

00:02:44.100 --> 00:02:55.170 Albert Dabah: different things come up and they can learn and listen to what our guests have to say so Laura how are you this evening or it's probably earlier over there, right now, and now.

00:02:56.070 --> 00:02:58.980 Laura Sandstra: it's just four in the afternoon but doing great today, thank you.

00:02:59.700 --> 00:03:00.210 Laura Sandstra: Great thanks.

00:03:01.590 --> 00:03:02.220 Laura Sandstra: Very honored.

00:03:02.490 --> 00:03:08.850 Albert Dabah: sure you would tell me that you've had all these thunderstorms there today, so I hope we don't lose you why.

00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:09.840 Albert Dabah: Yes, that as.

00:03:10.380 --> 00:03:10.800 well.

00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:12.930 Albert Dabah: Okay.

00:03:14.100 --> 00:03:16.050 Albert Dabah: So tell us about yourself.

00:03:17.670 --> 00:03:20.970 Albert Dabah: Did you grew up in Alberta, or you from somewhere yeah.

00:03:21.330 --> 00:03:35.220 Laura Sandstra: i'm born and raised in a really small town rocky mountain house Alberta spot 8000 people that's about it and i'm one of four, I have three brothers on the second one in the family so yeah i'm a fighter.

00:03:36.930 --> 00:03:50.310 Albert Dabah: fighter who good okay um so we have talked several times before tonight, and you have expressed to me that you lost your husband to suicide so.

00:03:51.930 --> 00:04:04.110 Albert Dabah: I know, for many people so that's a subject that people don't want to hear or talk about because there is such a big stigma about that about suicide so tell us a little bit about your experience.

00:04:05.790 --> 00:04:12.810 Albert Dabah: of dealing with that and anything that you can, and you know I know we're going back a bit in time and.

00:04:13.950 --> 00:04:17.070 Albert Dabah: You know we'll just talk about it and see you know how it goes.

00:04:17.340 --> 00:04:30.600 Laura Sandstra: yeah sure so um I was married for 18 and a half years to Dennis and we ran a bunch of companies together is very entrepreneurial very aggressive businessman anything he touched he.

00:04:31.110 --> 00:04:38.910 Laura Sandstra: turned to gold, so it was great I always said that I had to run to keep up to them so yeah we worked side by side i'm administrative.

00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:49.740 Laura Sandstra: that's what I went to school for and that's numbers make sense to me i'm very nice, so I would always run alongside him, and you know, keep things tidy and organized.

00:04:50.190 --> 00:04:59.010 Laura Sandstra: And yet, he was successful and I think that's why suicide can be so hard to understand you know, like I loved him and he knew it.

00:04:59.460 --> 00:05:10.710 Laura Sandstra: He had two daughters at the time they were 12 and 13 and so they're 17 and 18 now and a successful company live in a beautiful home out in the country on four acres of land.

00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:23.340 Laura Sandstra: So from the outside looking in everything was perfect and so many people came to me after he passed away and said I don't get it doesn't make any sense why, like everything everything looks so good from the outside.

00:05:23.880 --> 00:05:34.680 Laura Sandstra: And I think that's why it's important to talk about mental health rate on Dennis was the kind of guy that everybody came to with their problems and he could fix everybody else's problems but.

00:05:35.010 --> 00:05:43.200 Laura Sandstra: Obviously, heaven forbid him actually open up about having problems right, and I think that Stigma is stronger on men.

00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:50.640 Laura Sandstra: Like that they can't they can't tell people they have problems they can't talk to their friends when they're having issues because.

00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:57.960 Laura Sandstra: I don't know why I, you know us women were okay to get together and have a little hen party or have a little husband bashing session or say.

00:05:58.230 --> 00:06:06.000 Laura Sandstra: You know my marriage sucks and the other girl be like mine too right but guys don't do that well anyways he didn't have friends that did it.

00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:12.720 Laura Sandstra: So, and I don't know, maybe there's a degree of pride, or whatever that he wasn't willing to.

00:06:13.260 --> 00:06:20.910 Laura Sandstra: To put down I don't know I wish I wish he could tell a story from the other side, but he can't right so, all I can do is is trying to piece together what made sense and.

00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:28.140 Laura Sandstra: I mean we were married, so we live together we slept together and we work together so I was with him 24 hours a day, and when he killed himself, I was like hey wait what.

00:06:29.130 --> 00:06:35.850 Laura Sandstra: So, then you stop and look back and go Okay, did I did I miss some cues that I miss.

00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:48.900 Laura Sandstra: And it was easier to piece together, but when you've never been exposed to it when you've never lived through it when you've never been like side by side losing somebody to suicide you don't even know to look for those cues.

00:06:49.530 --> 00:06:57.090 Laura Sandstra: And after he left there was some guilt there that I did deal with like Oh, my goodness of anybody on the earth why didn't I see.

00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:07.380 Laura Sandstra: Right, I mean and married to him for 18 years, but the thing about it is is it's the whole like boil the frog in a hot pot of water kind of concept, I believe.

00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:10.560 Laura Sandstra: I think you know you and I were talking about earlier that.

00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:24.630 Laura Sandstra: suicide is not a selfish decision it's it's like a sickness that starts so subtly like you kind of have the sniffles and then you get used to the sniffles and then you get a cough, but you have the call for so long that you kind of get used to coughing and.

00:07:25.080 --> 00:07:30.540 Laura Sandstra: I don't know it just think you entertain that thought long enough, and then it it eats you alive.

00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:45.060 Laura Sandstra: But that's a process, and I can see his struggle that worsened over a period of about two years where he became a very difficult person to live with that the last two months were horrendous did you.

00:07:45.090 --> 00:07:47.790 Albert Dabah: Did you before those last two years.

00:07:50.610 --> 00:07:54.510 Albert Dabah: Was there anything that you recognize and did you.

00:07:56.010 --> 00:08:00.570 Albert Dabah: Did you ever think that he was a guy that I mean did you get depressed.

00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:06.660 Albert Dabah: You get really down at times that you know you had you sat and talked about it.

00:08:07.320 --> 00:08:18.810 Laura Sandstra: As he I think he was depressed but he would only react in anger so because I think that anger, even in his home that he grew up in anger was an acceptable emotion, where.

00:08:19.770 --> 00:08:36.840 Laura Sandstra: Depression was not an acceptable emotion or sadness wasn't an acceptable emotion, it was like will suck it up and get over it, and that's what he was raised in which is not as uncommon as one would think just, especially in men right just not encouraged.

00:08:36.900 --> 00:08:48.060 Albert Dabah: wow yeah I remember once a therapist saying to me, or maybe was why because I have a an msw degree and I studied this and still do at times and.

00:08:49.470 --> 00:08:52.620 Albert Dabah: Remember someone saying you know anger is the other side of depression.

00:08:54.480 --> 00:09:00.090 Albert Dabah: That, and I think anger is definitely more acceptable for men anyway.

00:09:00.150 --> 00:09:06.240 Laura Sandstra: Yes, I 100% degree view I do so, I think the deeper that that struggle became.

00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:19.530 Laura Sandstra: He became more and more angry, to the point that, like working together, and obviously we had employees when when he left we had nine men in the field, so we owned a backhoe services and i'm a company that did backhoe services, so any kind of trenching or.

00:09:19.830 --> 00:09:28.200 Laura Sandstra: sewer system installed, we would dig your basement build a driveway whatever and plumbing so complete plumbing for a house, so we had nine men working for us and.

00:09:28.920 --> 00:09:33.300 Laura Sandstra: those last two months, it was just like oh my he's you could do nothing right.

00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:46.620 Laura Sandstra: So his struggle just became so loud, but we couldn't understand it right, because of the things that he would get so angry I didn't match, you know my dad always said that the crime has to kind of equal the punishment right.

00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:59.340 Laura Sandstra: So you know someone would do something way down here and his punishment was like so far fetched it was like dude where's this coming from it wasn't adding up so yeah I never would have guessed.

00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:00.930 Albert Dabah: It was the someone that.

00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:02.880 Albert Dabah: Basically.

00:10:04.530 --> 00:10:12.180 Albert Dabah: Thought a lot about what he did and professionally low right he was you know kind of.

00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:17.160 Albert Dabah: You know, have you know, a free counseling like.

00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:26.040 Laura Sandstra: yeah i'm actually spoke with one of his close friends after he left in that and we both agreed that his value of himself.

00:10:27.090 --> 00:10:38.100 Laura Sandstra: was reflected in his business success so if business wasn't kind of rip and then his value was lower to right and.

00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:52.440 Laura Sandstra: yeah and that could be I don't know found it in any anything I made the low self esteem I I don't know all of that right like we never know the heart of a person unless they tell it to us.

00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:53.700 yeah.

00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:58.950 Albert Dabah: I think it's really I think I really feel like it's it's.

00:11:00.270 --> 00:11:04.230 Albert Dabah: it's difficult for anyone to really open up and close on how they feel.

00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:12.360 Albert Dabah: The deepest feelings, even if someone says, well, I love you what does that really mean to them what is a meeting with them.

00:11:14.130 --> 00:11:14.520 Albert Dabah: and

00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:28.020 Albert Dabah: And equating your value in terms of what are your occupation of what you do, of how well you're doing to how well how how you are, as a person I think is very common, particularly in men because.

00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:38.280 Albert Dabah: You know, we look around us and there's so much media going on, you can see, all these different people that are successful and making whatever is making money or just.

00:11:38.790 --> 00:11:44.820 Albert Dabah: Their publicity gets so high that even people like that, and sometimes take their lives because.

00:11:45.300 --> 00:12:05.790 Albert Dabah: Even as as well known, they are, as we know for a fact they they take that people like that have also taken their lives and it's it's one of these things that they think that it's a it's not just a I think a difficult problem to diagnose but it's it's difficult to treat.

00:12:07.470 --> 00:12:30.600 Albert Dabah: Because people are sometimes I think the way they're raised and how they go about their lives, sometimes they get so constricted that is hard for them to really open up yeah that's what i'm one like in those last two months, other than getting angry that he ever open up to you and.

00:12:30.810 --> 00:12:46.950 Laura Sandstra: Actually, in those last two months you actually closed down even harder and i've talked to a couple of people and they suggest this theory that when someone is getting back close to ending their life that they begin to push close people away so that they.

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:54.510 Laura Sandstra: Logically, they won't miss me as much when i'm gone because they kind of are mad at me right now.

00:12:55.020 --> 00:13:11.820 Laura Sandstra: Right so logically that makes sense, but emotionally it doesn't right, you know so that's what was happening is that he was getting farther and farther away and nastier and nastier so just pushing anybody, that was a true friend just pushing on way harder so.

00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:18.000 Albert Dabah: To me like because you work together and did you grow up together in the same damn.

00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:27.300 Laura Sandstra: Well, same town, yes, were both born and raised in this little town, but we were 12 and a half years difference, so I was when we met I was 21 and he was 34.

00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:40.650 Laura Sandstra: Oh that's a pretty significant age difference, so I mean 12 and a half years right i'm just coming into kindergarten and he's just graduated so that's pretty crazy when you're a kid, but when you're an adult it's all a big muddy mess perfect doesn't really matter.

00:13:40.920 --> 00:13:43.320 Albert Dabah: we've got together and how old were you and I will see.

00:13:43.710 --> 00:13:55.590 Laura Sandstra: I was so when when matt so I was 19 rage and he would have been 32 or whatever yeah so and then we got married when I was 21 us 34 and we didn't start having kids till he was 40.

00:13:56.610 --> 00:14:02.940 Laura Sandstra: So yeah it's it was a wild ride and and and raised very differently so I was raised in church.

00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:10.380 Laura Sandstra: always raised in kind of a Christian bubble went to the Christian school had Christian friends from church whatever my family is all religious so it's like.

00:14:10.830 --> 00:14:26.250 Laura Sandstra: This was me and my little bubble over here, and he was raised, you know his dad was oil patch totally hard ass kind of gnarly dude good good morals good people really good people, but just rough I don't know how else to say a little rough around the edges and just.

00:14:27.780 --> 00:14:34.500 Laura Sandstra: work hard or you're worth nothing you know so yeah different different sides of the track, so to speak.

00:14:35.730 --> 00:14:38.970 Albert Dabah: And you said he was 40 when you had your first child.

00:14:39.270 --> 00:14:42.450 Laura Sandstra: yeah that's right yeah crazy so.

00:14:43.410 --> 00:14:44.910 Albert Dabah: yeah well, I was, I believe.

00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:59.250 Laura Sandstra: two daughters so they're 18 and 17 now so yeah no it's good I mean and i'm so thankful, I had them, I never wanted to kids but he wanted kids right away, and I was like no give me five years and then we waited five years and oh my word like what would I do without them now.

00:14:59.880 --> 00:15:00.360 Albert Dabah: Like.

00:15:00.570 --> 00:15:06.750 Laura Sandstra: they're everything now everything I remarried now but there's nothing like babies i'll tell you they're the best.

00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:08.490 Laura Sandstra: best.

00:15:08.550 --> 00:15:22.530 Albert Dabah: Well we're going to take a break and we'll come back and love to talk about how this affected your kids and you know how it is next to them now, because obviously losing their dad's got to be a real heartbreak so.

00:15:24.060 --> 00:15:30.360 Albert Dabah: we'll be right back with Laura and thank you stay tuned.

00:17:58.860 --> 00:18:08.640 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with lower sansa on extra innings i'm Laura we started to talk about your kids so tell us how.

00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:13.350 Albert Dabah: How did they react to the losing your husband well.

00:18:13.410 --> 00:18:32.940 Laura Sandstra: The crazy thing was after he died, I had to try and grieve myself and sort out so much stuff left with a business left with two girls left with everything right and I you kind of go into survival mode yourself and then there's the two of them 12 and 13 at the time, who still need.

00:18:34.050 --> 00:18:45.390 Laura Sandstra: A parent who is functional raid so I needed people in my life i'm a total people person I can shoot the breeze with pretty much a crocodile so.

00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:53.790 Laura Sandstra: I need people in my house all the time, I need to talk about what's bothering me whatever so my oldest daughter Maria is the same she needs people.

00:18:54.180 --> 00:19:03.660 Laura Sandstra: megan my youngest is an introvert all the way and she needs peace and quiet and she likes to go into her bedroom and just recharge in quiet right.

00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:17.400 Laura Sandstra: So that was crazy because I needed people, and I was not sensitive to the fact that megan needed not people like megan was fine with me and find with her sister, but not a house, full of people right.

00:19:17.850 --> 00:19:25.800 Laura Sandstra: But you don't know like if you haven't walked through that before you don't know how to do it right so just even watching them.

00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:42.330 Laura Sandstra: process it as only a kid brain can do right it's it sucks it sucks and I think the biggest part of walking through that that bugs me is i'll feel okay about the situation until it bothers them.

00:19:43.140 --> 00:19:52.410 Laura Sandstra: And it bothers me again right because that's the parent like feel like most parents will put their kids in front of their own feelings whenever it's necessary right here, your kids end up.

00:19:53.100 --> 00:20:04.140 Laura Sandstra: I don't know you lay your life down for your kid in whatever what to whatever extent That means, so I tried to start a couple of different I don't know if you want to call them traditions but.

00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:12.540 Laura Sandstra: He was buried in a cemetery that we drive past every day to get into town and it's one of the biggest ones and rocky and.

00:20:12.870 --> 00:20:20.100 Laura Sandstra: So I would often like even before it's going home, I would just turn in go into the cemetery and they're like what are we doing i'm like i'm just going to hide a dead.

00:20:20.670 --> 00:20:30.390 Laura Sandstra: So I would just make it kind of a light hearted kind of a very acceptable you're not weird to go do this or whatever and.

00:20:30.810 --> 00:20:37.650 Laura Sandstra: Just drive over to his headstone and make sure it looks good and whatever and then drive out like not weird or awkward or anything and.

00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:48.660 Laura Sandstra: There were days when I would go there and take a lawn chair and I would sit right there and I would yell and I would cry and I don't know what to do, and why did you leave and.

00:20:49.050 --> 00:20:54.900 Laura Sandstra: It felt like a point of contact and I wanted the kids to understand that you know I just didn't want it to be weird.

00:20:55.350 --> 00:21:07.980 Laura Sandstra: that's all I didn't want it to be creepy because it's it's a beautiful cemetery so anyways uh I was telling you, the other day that actually yeah I I track my kids because they're young on their cell phones I know where they're at and.

00:21:09.090 --> 00:21:18.870 Laura Sandstra: I looked at various location and she was cemetery and I was like oh so I texted her said, are you good she's like yeah I said, are you alone, no i'm with my friend Alina so that was fine.

00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:28.560 Laura Sandstra: And then I just kind of backed off and I thought okay awesome like she's obviously having a crappy day and she went to go talk to her dad which I love and i'm.

00:21:29.370 --> 00:21:35.730 Laura Sandstra: Actually it's tricky with teens because I haven't been able to flat out asked her why did you go there.

00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:42.690 Laura Sandstra: it's super tricky like where's that line of like really honoring what's super tricky for them and.

00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:54.030 Laura Sandstra: versus like pushing into their space and saying what's bothering you what's bothering you what's bothering you and, anyway, so uh I think it's to do with Greg because she's graduating grade 12.

00:21:55.170 --> 00:22:08.040 Laura Sandstra: In June June 29 it's less than two weeks away, and her dad is not here so during the week then her dad used to have a 1941 Ford truck with a huge engine in it and.

00:22:08.910 --> 00:22:16.710 Laura Sandstra: Excuse me, she did hundred foot shootouts within one year and so she came to me it was about couple days after the cemetery day and she said.

00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:23.460 Laura Sandstra: We sold it to a gentleman that we know, would you call him and see if I could drive that truck for the Grad parade i'm like.

00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:31.500 Laura Sandstra: There we go that's that connection to dad that she needed right and he's graciously said yes i'm so thrilled he said yes.

00:22:31.890 --> 00:22:44.400 Laura Sandstra: So I think I think that was kind of the process, but as a parent you're not always able to just get into their brains and say what's going on and I honestly think like Albert I honestly think they don't know what's going on.

00:22:45.300 --> 00:23:01.410 Laura Sandstra: They can't can't piece it together i'm 45 years old, and I still some days i'm like I still don't understand it, I can't you know grief is such a crazy layered complex thing, so I still struggle with it.

00:23:01.830 --> 00:23:02.850 Laura Sandstra: yeah bill.

00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:10.140 Albert Dabah: Did you have you gone for any kind of therapy when this occurred.

00:23:10.230 --> 00:23:23.730 Laura Sandstra: Yes, I did with my pastor and then I sent my girl so bria was willing to she's the extrovert so she was willing to so she did, and she she actually found it very helpful, she was really open with this lady and just really.

00:23:24.570 --> 00:23:33.090 Laura Sandstra: want megan I think it was two and a half years after he passed away that I finally like.

00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:41.940 Laura Sandstra: convince slash pushed her into it, and she only went for maybe three sessions and.

00:23:43.260 --> 00:23:55.740 Laura Sandstra: megan's personality is one that requires excessive trust before she opens up to you that's a typical introvert rate so for her to open up to a therapist or counselor.

00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:03.510 Laura Sandstra: And it would take her a year to establish that trust I feel so that I feel like it wasn't as productive.

00:24:04.350 --> 00:24:13.770 Laura Sandstra: And I do worry about her a little bit because she'll if she keeps herself excessively busy she can keep those feelings pushed aside right.

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:20.100 Laura Sandstra: But I remind her like if you don't let them out, and you don't speak about them and you don't express them.

00:24:20.520 --> 00:24:35.850 Laura Sandstra: they're just they're just boiling under the surface and they will blow up eventually and they do you know every six to nine months we'll have like a little bit of a whoa what's going on and often they don't know they'll tell me I don't know.

00:24:36.540 --> 00:24:40.320 Albert Dabah: So this this happened about six years ago 556 years ago.

00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:50.430 Laura Sandstra: Almost five in November it'll be five years ago mm hmm which honestly, on one hand feels like three days ago I feel like anything to do with the kids it.

00:24:51.090 --> 00:25:00.300 Laura Sandstra: that the time span is shorter anything to do with me, it feels like because, like forever ago in some aspects like i've since closed the company.

00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:07.140 Laura Sandstra: I auctioned all of the stuff off last July so from last July till today i've i've not worked.

00:25:07.530 --> 00:25:23.400 Laura Sandstra: On and i've just had to tidy up the books and whatever i'm still selling the land and property I haven't I haven't sold the buildings or anything yet so i'm working on that so it's like that chapter still waiting to close, but that's the final page is to sell the place the workplace.

00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:24.390 Albert Dabah: Is you ever.

00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:28.620 Albert Dabah: Within this time that has passed.

00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:34.950 Albert Dabah: Have you ever been part of any groups of people that have lost their loved ones to suicide.

00:25:35.370 --> 00:25:46.110 Laura Sandstra: No, I haven't i've never really looked into stuff like that I think the reason for that is because I still attend church, excuse me, and I don't know I just.

00:25:47.190 --> 00:25:49.230 Laura Sandstra: I have great great support there.

00:25:50.310 --> 00:26:08.160 Laura Sandstra: And yeah I just love those people, and because i'm an extrovert I process through my mouth right, so I think that is helpful everybody does have to figure out how they process there's, no doubt, but on even introverts when they can get it out of their mouth, it helps.

00:26:09.810 --> 00:26:16.410 Albert Dabah: Why, I bring it up, because I never went to a group I you know i'm losing my brother sister to suicide until.

00:26:17.490 --> 00:26:33.960 Albert Dabah: Maybe six months well no actually was before covert I started going to a group, it was suggested as I was talking to different i'm Jewish soca different rabbis I was showing the film and different synagogues and different festivals.

00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:38.370 Albert Dabah: Jewish festivals and regular festivals and.

00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:45.930 Albert Dabah: Somehow my name back around and someone said hey why don't you join this group hmm and.

00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:59.520 Albert Dabah: i'll never forget the rabbi who I spoke to around the group said oh yeah you will you can join, but I don't want you to sit there and talk about like promote the film hmm one wasn't I don't think it was out yet or anyway.

00:27:01.170 --> 00:27:18.360 Albert Dabah: I said no, I never joined a group, like this i'm curious what it would be like so when I got to the group I was the first one there that night was about 10 people that came and many of them recurring come, I think it was once a once a month right okay um.

00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:32.970 Albert Dabah: I started thinking let's see how long ago was that my brother and sister died I realized that my mom my brother had died 50 years previous Oh, and my sister about 20 2030 years or something and.

00:27:34.650 --> 00:27:41.250 Albert Dabah: And so, in other words, I had never been to a group and was 4050 years and.

00:27:42.690 --> 00:27:45.450 Albert Dabah: But I got a lot out of it and.

00:27:47.160 --> 00:28:01.200 Albert Dabah: And I guess i'm bringing it up, because you know you never know what you can get out of something no matter when it is and what time it is, and you know, like, I thought, well, I could just breeze through this but I got very emotional about it.

00:28:02.580 --> 00:28:08.520 Albert Dabah: You know I, because here, I am in a room where everyone and I got emotional just listening to someone who just lost their.

00:28:08.970 --> 00:28:21.510 Albert Dabah: 13 year old kid suicide, I mean I, like some of these things I heard was like wow and it was a room full of people like 1012 people who lost their loved ones to suicide and.

00:28:22.590 --> 00:28:31.350 Albert Dabah: I really felt wow this is such you know this is live right in front of me now they now they do it on zoom during Colin and I intended one.

00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:53.640 Albert Dabah: couple of weeks ago, but I felt it helpful just to you know I I don't go to it, I regularly to a synagogue I used to, but I don't anymore, but I found it and it's run by this Jewish board and very delicately and you know it's something that I feel is another ways to be able to.

00:28:55.170 --> 00:28:59.310 Albert Dabah: deal with such a terrible loss a tough.

00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:03.810 Laura Sandstra: One I believe when when you don't feel alone it's just better.

00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:12.510 Albert Dabah: yeah yeah it is so alright well we'll be back in a minute and talk more with Laura.

00:29:14.070 --> 00:29:19.830 Albert Dabah: And how she has a on about dealing with her loss Thank you we'll be right back.

00:32:08.430 --> 00:32:10.770 Albert Dabah: Laura what I wanted to ask you, was.

00:32:11.850 --> 00:32:22.830 Albert Dabah: From this experience that you had and that it's not just to me and experiences, this is a life changing event that you have gone through that.

00:32:24.060 --> 00:32:35.820 Albert Dabah: As you just said it's like you know, sometimes think what happened How did this happen, you know it will come to your mind, and I can definitely understand that what what have you learned.

00:32:36.870 --> 00:32:46.350 Albert Dabah: Are there any things that you when you look back about yourself that you've learned that you didn't see before that you see now that.

00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:58.110 Albert Dabah: You know kind of like helps you think how to put this in in a place where you know that it may be, you can understand it more but that.

00:32:58.590 --> 00:33:13.080 Albert Dabah: Is kind of settles a little bit since it's been about he said five years that that 510 15 years makes it any easier, but where you like, where you are you're on the show right now talking very openly about it.

00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:21.990 Albert Dabah: I think is wonderful to do because I really believe this helps other people dealing we're dealing with a situation such as this yeah.

00:33:23.550 --> 00:33:39.990 Laura Sandstra: yeah um I had an opportunity to share it at a ladies meeting with our church and it was good, it was hard, it was a lot fresher my mind when it happened, but i'm telling what have I taken from it honestly it's humbled me a lot because.

00:33:41.100 --> 00:33:48.270 Laura Sandstra: I don't know and the older we get I swear the more humble we get because we just get wiser and we realize how much we don't know the older we get right.

00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:49.020 Albert Dabah: Well, I.

00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:54.690 Laura Sandstra: feel like throughout my marriage and whatever obviously i've reflected back on that marriage and.

00:33:55.140 --> 00:34:02.610 Laura Sandstra: have realized that she shares the things that I could have been probably should have done differently, but I didn't know I didn't know to do it.

00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:10.860 Laura Sandstra: And like love languages, I think, are so so important like there's only what five of them on the planet, so it's not even complicated.

00:34:11.250 --> 00:34:19.260 Laura Sandstra: So learn your spouse's love language and speaking their language don't speak in your own right, I think that's huge huge and I think I think.

00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:31.830 Laura Sandstra: I think I caused unintentional damage in my ignorance, I know I did, but you know, for example, Dennis when we were married his love languages gifts giving gifts.

00:34:32.490 --> 00:34:42.750 Laura Sandstra: So if I were to give him a gift or something that's the loudest way that I can say I love you well that's my lowest but often we express our love to each other in our own language.

00:34:43.170 --> 00:34:50.520 Laura Sandstra: Right so Dennis would buy me gifts and they were extravagant and It made me crazy, it may be completely crazy because I would right away, be like.

00:34:51.330 --> 00:34:59.490 Laura Sandstra: Oh, my gosh how much did you just spend on that, so I wasn't grateful I now like devalued the gift by worrying about how much money he had just spent on it.

00:35:00.090 --> 00:35:10.740 Laura Sandstra: And so I just like you know deflated the whole situation where I should have recognized okay he's not speaking my language, however, it is ultimate form of saying I love you right.

00:35:11.310 --> 00:35:18.630 Laura Sandstra: And I would I didn't recognize that till after he left but to to admit to admit that.

00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:28.560 Laura Sandstra: Okay, I did play a part, I was not the cause of the suicide I don't believe that I don't believe that at all, I believe that it was a thought that was entertained and it grew and it grew.

00:35:29.160 --> 00:35:38.880 Laura Sandstra: But I do believe there's contributing factors right that pull in the depression and pull in the worthlessness or whatever that humans struggling with.

00:35:39.630 --> 00:35:50.310 Laura Sandstra: So just to like reflect back and go Okay, how could I have done that differently or maybe if I ever get a chance to remarry Maybe I should.

00:35:51.090 --> 00:35:58.920 Laura Sandstra: walk into it with my eyes very open and then I never dreamed i'd have a second chance rate, I mean our marriage wasn't great.

00:35:59.580 --> 00:36:08.910 Laura Sandstra: But I always say it was like an 8020 split 80% of time it was find 20% was not fine, but that 20% was really not fine so.

00:36:09.510 --> 00:36:15.960 Laura Sandstra: Still, the 80% i'm like whatever I can still I can still make this happen, you know I never would have left him, I know that for sure, I never would have left the guy.

00:36:16.530 --> 00:36:29.340 Laura Sandstra: But to have a second chance like Okay, I feel like I need to do a few things a little differently and i'm ever so grateful for that for real but it sucks how I had to get there.

00:36:29.700 --> 00:36:33.270 Albert Dabah: So you've been married you married a couple years ago is that right now.

00:36:33.330 --> 00:36:38.700 Laura Sandstra: yeah not even not even two years yeah January will be two years, no that's not true, it has been two years January.

00:36:40.650 --> 00:36:54.630 Laura Sandstra: Yes, and totally different obviously but yeah just a and that's a dynamic shift in itself so especially dealing with children right where they knew their dad and the dad hung the moon right.

00:36:55.140 --> 00:37:06.180 Laura Sandstra: So then another man comes into the House and it's a whole different dynamic of like blending a family it's not just like a divorce in a divorce it's like a suicide so it's like a dad left me.

00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:20.430 Laura Sandstra: And now, another Dudes coming into the House and where does that all fit and what do we call him and how do we act around him, and it was it was not wonderful, for the first year and a half.

00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.760 Albert Dabah: Has it has it changed since then, as it has.

00:37:23.790 --> 00:37:27.420 Laura Sandstra: It has it settled right out and i'm.

00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:38.040 Laura Sandstra: Not that they're excessively closed megan my introvert is actually very close to him because he's an introvert as well, so they just feed off of each other right there's that peacefulness between the two of them.

00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:49.560 Laura Sandstra: Were bria my oldest is more like me super chatty or whatever, she didn't have any use for him whatsoever and that took a long time that took a year and a half before was even just neutral.

00:37:50.910 --> 00:37:57.900 Laura Sandstra: And now it's now it's a lot better they're actually getting along really well but um yeah it's crazy I don't know.

00:37:58.830 --> 00:38:05.340 Albert Dabah: yeah so you live in a you learn a different home now you do live in a.

00:38:05.580 --> 00:38:07.740 Laura Sandstra: We still live in the same home at.

00:38:07.830 --> 00:38:14.520 Laura Sandstra: home yeah and and I did that quite intentionally because I just felt at the time that the girls were 12 and 13.

00:38:15.240 --> 00:38:20.820 Laura Sandstra: What are a few things that I can do to just really reinforce that their life is in fact stable.

00:38:21.690 --> 00:38:28.980 Laura Sandstra: i'm not going anywhere I don't want it to make any changes because the dad leaving was a massive change, like all the carpet yanked.

00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:36.510 Laura Sandstra: You know, so I thought Okay, what can I do so, I intentionally stayed in this House and and then Jonathan and I got married and.

00:38:37.110 --> 00:38:42.660 Laura Sandstra: We had talked about selling it and building, so that you know it was something that we could build together and whatever but.

00:38:43.470 --> 00:38:54.150 Laura Sandstra: just not the right time and and he said home and the girls are so comfortable here, you know there'll be moving out right she's breeze 18 megan Scott one more year of high school and she'll be going to university and.

00:38:55.110 --> 00:39:09.600 Laura Sandstra: I don't know, but I think it's important just to create like natural stability for them as well right that it nothing's changed they go to school, they come home same home just come on right so yeah I felt that was important.

00:39:10.230 --> 00:39:11.730 Albert Dabah: What I wanted to bring up is.

00:39:13.140 --> 00:39:13.680 Albert Dabah: The.

00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:20.850 Albert Dabah: web before the show we were talking and we talked about guilt that comes up.

00:39:23.190 --> 00:39:33.060 Albert Dabah: When someone does take your life, and it will take you out and I talked about how it was for me so um talk to me about how that.

00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:38.370 Albert Dabah: Because I think I think that's such a common universal feeling that someone has.

00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:53.160 Albert Dabah: And it doesn't just go with someone who takes their life, it goes with you know life goes to someone who passes on and i'm to feel we could have done better in taking care of them.

00:39:53.640 --> 00:40:05.430 Albert Dabah: or in many different ways we can feel guilty about how many different things in our lives and we you know in work, we could have I screwed that up, and you know I try to do that.

00:40:06.450 --> 00:40:09.360 Albert Dabah: So there's so many different levels, but obviously.

00:40:10.530 --> 00:40:19.800 Albert Dabah: When someone takes their life, particularly in your situation your husband had how did it make you feel when when it came to you said you felt extremely guilty.

00:40:20.130 --> 00:40:34.800 Laura Sandstra: yeah yeah so the obvious one is like Oh, my goodness, did I cause this right so that's the obvious skills and I think everybody would assume that that's, the main one actually wasn't, the main one for me because I couldn't take the blame because.

00:40:36.060 --> 00:40:44.790 Laura Sandstra: Man I did a lot for this guy because I loved him right so whatever I could do I did, and like I said sure I could have done things differently, and I do now, but.

00:40:45.090 --> 00:40:54.780 Laura Sandstra: My biggest guilt was because the last two months of his life, he was so incredibly difficult to live with as as a boss, as a fellow employee and as a husband was just awful.

00:40:55.470 --> 00:41:05.640 Laura Sandstra: That actually when he left, I had such a feeling of relief and that caused me such great guilt, to the point that I was so scared to admit to someone.

00:41:06.090 --> 00:41:24.840 Laura Sandstra: That I was relieved, he was gone and that was super tricky right, but it was such a deep sense of relief and like a huge exhale but at the same time that guilt just screamed right in my face like How dare you how dare you be relieved that he killed himself and definitely wasn't.

00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:31.440 Laura Sandstra: happy that he killed himself it wasn't happiness, it was just relief that the battle was over.

00:41:32.010 --> 00:41:44.310 Laura Sandstra: Right just that the like walking on eggshells, every day, and just like not knowing what kind of a mood you're walking into are you going to get blasted are you going to get an attaboy it was just horrendous and.

00:41:45.330 --> 00:41:48.450 Laura Sandstra: So that that guilt for sure and.

00:41:49.650 --> 00:41:58.830 Laura Sandstra: I lived under the type of personality that always said what happens at home stays at home, therefore, I I eliminated.

00:41:59.520 --> 00:42:09.570 Laura Sandstra: 95% of my friends and I hung out with zero other women because I was not allowed to talk so anything that.

00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:20.040 Laura Sandstra: ate me alive, if he found out that I spoke to anyone, I would never hear the end of it, so I decided I don't want to get yelled at so I just won't talk, so I would only journal.

00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:32.850 Laura Sandstra: So after he left I finally I was safe to go and talk to friends and I would, and I would still hear him in the back of my mind, although he's already gone.

00:42:33.450 --> 00:42:44.400 Laura Sandstra: About you know what happens in our House should stay in our House and it was like torture right because it was so relieving to get off my chest, finally, because I process out of my mouth.

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:56.580 Laura Sandstra: Yet the guilt of actually doing what he's always said i'm not allowed to do you know, like it's it's a crazy convoluted back and forth inconsistent argument in your brain that you don't.

00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:11.100 Laura Sandstra: quite know how to balance out right your heart wants the relief, but your brain is scared that you're going to get yelled at you know, like where's that balance, and so there was a guilt of just.

00:43:12.330 --> 00:43:23.910 Laura Sandstra: Telling a couple of people just close friends how awful he was when he was awful but oh man it produced such healing and me just to let that garbage out of my mind and out of my heart.

00:43:24.450 --> 00:43:41.220 Laura Sandstra: You know, and they say, if you don't get it out, whether it be to a therapist or a friend it'll rot inside of you and you'll either get physically sick or you'll lose your mind, so I do believe it's really important to talk about it.

00:43:42.270 --> 00:43:54.150 Albert Dabah: yeah no I definitely agree with you, I think you know even you sharing this tonight with us and with the audience out there who are listening, who will be listening.

00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:57.540 Albert Dabah: I think it's something that.

00:43:58.620 --> 00:44:05.100 Albert Dabah: We all can take in and assimilate into who we are to whatever degree we can.

00:44:07.140 --> 00:44:19.320 Albert Dabah: So we're going to take another break and we'll come back and talk some more with Laura about some of these challenges, and you know what it's like to move on from this, because I think.

00:44:20.520 --> 00:44:28.260 Albert Dabah: that's one of the things we all have to do in any of these situations is where we are now and how do we move on from there.

00:44:29.790 --> 00:44:32.160 Albert Dabah: we'll be right back Thank you Laura.

00:44:37.110 --> 00:44:37.890 Albert Dabah: And my Co.

00:46:49.200 --> 00:46:57.540 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with Laura Sandra Laura you had mentioned about the emotion of forgiveness tell us.

00:46:59.160 --> 00:47:03.300 Albert Dabah: About that How does that come into play with what you're talking about.

00:47:03.660 --> 00:47:13.170 Laura Sandstra: yeah sure sure so obviously anger is a natural step of grief any any research you do and I was super mad at.

00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:18.570 Laura Sandstra: him for leaving me leaving me with a company that I didn't feel like I could run by myself.

00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:30.960 Laura Sandstra: Leaving me with two teenage daughters and I was super super bitter about it for a long time, I would say honestly, if I have to honestly say how long, I would say almost three years.

00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:39.360 Laura Sandstra: And I would I would you know okay well whatever I have to let that go, but I never like actually process that as forgiveness and and.

00:47:40.020 --> 00:47:47.490 Laura Sandstra: there's a little bit of an element of abandonment here to right like he he left me and he left his children.

00:47:48.060 --> 00:47:55.770 Laura Sandstra: And that causes anger that causes like crazy feelings of like hey wait what, and so I really had to process that and.

00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:02.670 Laura Sandstra: there's a lot of freedom attached to forgiveness, but it doesn't mean that it's a five minute process.

00:48:03.300 --> 00:48:08.940 Laura Sandstra: And you know any grief counseling that you go through anger is a super important step and.

00:48:09.270 --> 00:48:17.190 Laura Sandstra: You know my mom always says, you know you can't jump to the next step, you have to walk through everything to get to the next step and.

00:48:17.610 --> 00:48:29.520 Laura Sandstra: walking through unforgiveness is a crappy road I don't know it's gross I don't I don't like it, I don't like to be angry I don't like to be that's not my natural bent that's not where I like to land and.

00:48:30.180 --> 00:48:40.560 Laura Sandstra: So I just had to really start to you know search my heart go okay like i'm holding this against him pretty darn hard and it's only eating me alive right he's good he's gone.

00:48:41.100 --> 00:48:46.770 Laura Sandstra: So yeah forgiveness, was a big deal and it took me a long while, to get there and.

00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:55.080 Laura Sandstra: I think, on his fourth anniversary of him, leaving, I think it was yes, because we're four and a half, so it's not that long ago, like last November.

00:48:55.530 --> 00:49:01.080 Laura Sandstra: I wrote on if I always do a nice post them on Facebook and just say that it's the anniversary of or whatever and.

00:49:01.770 --> 00:49:12.780 Laura Sandstra: And I said, this is, I feel like this is the first year that I can look back and go i'm for real not angry anymore, I and it's and it's changing.

00:49:13.470 --> 00:49:21.120 Laura Sandstra: The memories that I remember, like the good stuff starting to bubble to the top, not the fights we've had not to have difficulty was not that.

00:49:21.690 --> 00:49:30.840 Laura Sandstra: And that's when I could really tell I had forgiven because when you're when you're a negative and you're in unforgiveness all the negative is the first thing it's right in front of your face.

00:49:31.410 --> 00:49:43.320 Laura Sandstra: And yeah just funny memories and things he was amazing at and I don't know just I could even be grateful for certain things that happened in our life, even though he wasn't here to share them any longer rate.

00:49:43.890 --> 00:49:55.050 Laura Sandstra: And it's very liberating my goodness, like, I would just really encourage anyone who's walked through this and and feels that bitterness it's okay and it's a good process.

00:49:55.680 --> 00:50:06.150 Laura Sandstra: just keep walking forward and keep pushing towards that forgiveness it's that's a big deal and i'm a journal, or so I I wrote him a letter.

00:50:07.140 --> 00:50:13.620 Laura Sandstra: And I wrote that I forgive him I forgive him for leaving I forgive him for the hurt that was caused and.

00:50:14.070 --> 00:50:25.260 Laura Sandstra: just tried to more empathize with his struggle right I don't know what was going on in him and his personality, was a strong fighter and a problem solver and.

00:50:25.680 --> 00:50:39.660 Laura Sandstra: A producer and you know, like he was kind of a rock star so for a rock star to just say i'm out there was a definite battle going on in there, that I have to acknowledge so.

00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:42.690 Albert Dabah: I believe you told me that.

00:50:45.030 --> 00:50:47.010 Albert Dabah: A friend of his had told you that.

00:50:48.930 --> 00:50:49.560 Albert Dabah: He had once.

00:50:50.820 --> 00:50:52.560 Albert Dabah: tried this before that you.

00:50:53.520 --> 00:51:03.780 Laura Sandstra: had no idea I found out after he was gone that this was actually his third attempt on his life and his friend was around on his second attempt when he was 19.

00:51:04.590 --> 00:51:22.410 Laura Sandstra: And I had I did, that was a skeleton that he kept tucked away in his closet I never knew that till after he was gone so that's wild and his friend is like man like 40 years I thought he had beaten this you know or whatever it was like from.

00:51:25.050 --> 00:51:29.520 Laura Sandstra: Like 30 some years that's craziness so yeah.

00:51:30.240 --> 00:51:31.920 Albert Dabah: I do, that twice.

00:51:32.100 --> 00:51:34.380 Laura Sandstra: No, no, I was like.

00:51:34.830 --> 00:51:42.780 Laura Sandstra: that's great I had no idea that that was even a struggle, because if I had I feel like I would have reacted in a couple of situations, a little differently, because we had had.

00:51:43.410 --> 00:51:52.830 Laura Sandstra: Well, we fought and we're kind of a normal married couple, but also when you own your own business there's just there's heat you you gotta you gotta battle it out once in a while and.

00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:03.930 Laura Sandstra: I would say in our marriage, maybe 10 times, he would just throw in in the heat of the battle, a little suicide threat.

00:52:04.470 --> 00:52:12.000 Laura Sandstra: And I never took it seriously I just took it as manipulation like oh you're gonna play that card, are you that's really playing dirty.

00:52:12.750 --> 00:52:30.240 Laura Sandstra: Not knowing it was actually real I didn't know right, so I didn't know the past either had I known the past I probably went Oh, I think we need to go talk to someone, but what he would he would he have talked to someone this I don't know I don't think he would have.

00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:33.240 Laura Sandstra: Just that natural personality.

00:52:33.660 --> 00:52:36.930 Albert Dabah: What would you say to someone who is.

00:52:40.140 --> 00:52:43.500 Albert Dabah: In the situation that you were in and.

00:52:44.550 --> 00:52:44.850 Albert Dabah: Like.

00:52:45.930 --> 00:52:51.420 Albert Dabah: How do you think you get help I mean I think you're helping people writing about what you're talking about but.

00:52:53.010 --> 00:52:53.550 Albert Dabah: I think.

00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:02.070 Albert Dabah: What you've been through and why you process and what you've learned is extremely helpful to people.

00:53:04.050 --> 00:53:09.990 Albert Dabah: But if you had a friend that was dealing with a marriage right now that was kind of rocky and stuff and.

00:53:10.470 --> 00:53:24.060 Albert Dabah: See let's say the husband said hey i'm going to kill myself, you know you know, some people say it sometimes just throw that out, yes, anger or and you know they want some trying to get something from it, what what How would you what would you tell them.

00:53:24.450 --> 00:53:29.460 Laura Sandstra: yeah I don't I don't think there's a quick fix I don't because, if I put myself back in that that time.

00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:37.320 Laura Sandstra: it's easy to say oh will tell him he needs to go get counseling well I don't think he would I don't think he would have heard that.

00:53:37.890 --> 00:53:53.340 Laura Sandstra: Like I think that would have just been an explosive fight, and I understand that and I think that it just has to be small subtle things like what can you do as the other spouse, as the healthier spouse if that's even fair to say, because we're all in the sludge together right but.

00:53:54.900 --> 00:54:00.300 Laura Sandstra: What are other little things that could contribute to a more stable calm environment.

00:54:01.080 --> 00:54:20.850 Laura Sandstra: don't poke the bear I don't know and I don't I don't think I did because i'm i'm a peacemaker, and I prefer happy and peaceful he was happy with confrontation, so I always tried to just bring it down bring it down bring it down at all I don't want to you know I didn't want to fight.

00:54:22.080 --> 00:54:28.320 Laura Sandstra: But I don't know you're not alone know what you think your marriage is the worst one and you think that.

00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:38.610 Laura Sandstra: Your fights are the ugliest but it's not true it's not true we're all in this together it's like a flat playing field like nobody's up here nobody's down here.

00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:46.020 Laura Sandstra: we're all here, and we all need each other, we need to hear each other's experiences, we need to just link arms.

00:54:46.530 --> 00:55:03.840 Laura Sandstra: And I don't know if if you are encouraged, not to say something to anyone, I don't like that, because you're not taking care of yourself and your own heart, then, and you cannot be a better spouse right, and I think that's kind of manipulation and all that too so.

00:55:04.260 --> 00:55:09.990 Albert Dabah: yeah what I think what you just said is really, really true you know you're not alone and.

00:55:11.490 --> 00:55:16.140 Albert Dabah: This is not just a you know we're all in this together, basically, what you're saying.

00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:21.060 Albert Dabah: You think that you have the worst marriage when you're having this terrible fight.

00:55:22.080 --> 00:55:26.130 Albert Dabah: calculate you know all these things come in your mind, I know I mean i'm.

00:55:27.750 --> 00:55:34.890 Albert Dabah: divorced, so I remember when you know i'm good friends with my ex wife, but I remember I time thinking oh my gosh this.

00:55:35.430 --> 00:55:44.850 Albert Dabah: over how can, how can we go on with this, and yet we're able to stay friends and still you know, I have three children and we saw all get together.

00:55:45.540 --> 00:56:02.100 Albert Dabah: um but it takes work and it takes, I think, like you said it takes talking about it and that's that's the hard things to be I think one of the things i've learned is to love is to really be vulnerable to open yourself up again.

00:56:03.150 --> 00:56:08.160 Albert Dabah: it's a it's a very it's hard to do, particularly.

00:56:09.300 --> 00:56:21.780 Albert Dabah: You know, when you when you don't know how the other person is going to react, yes I think you'd be surprised to see I mean you'll know more about that other person when you're vulnerable to them and find out how they react to that I really.

00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:29.340 Albert Dabah: And I think we're you know, but the one thing that i'm really getting out of this from hearing you is we're not alone.

00:56:30.180 --> 00:56:40.950 Albert Dabah: And I think that's really important and as that's a big thing that the film that I made extra innings is really about and made it to share with people, so they can really see you're not alone.

00:56:41.370 --> 00:56:55.380 Albert Dabah: And are so many people out there struggle with all kinds of different challenges and it's important to get help if you need help or any way that you can get help yeah that's right so i'd like to.

00:56:56.460 --> 00:57:01.080 Albert Dabah: end by just saying thank you so much for sharing the story on the show tonight.

00:57:03.060 --> 00:57:16.470 Albert Dabah: and wish you all the best and keep going out there, and you know, listening to your heart and I mentioned again the movie is called extra innings it's on Amazon prime.

00:57:17.040 --> 00:57:29.940 Albert Dabah: I believe it's a movie that moves people and, if you like, it share it with other people so Laura Thank you so much for being on tonight so it's been a pleasure and.

00:57:31.200 --> 00:57:35.280 Albert Dabah: let's stay in touch all the best, thank you, thank you over.

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