Natasha Tracy B.Sc. is an award-winning writer, speaker and consultant who lives with bipolar disorder. She is mental health thought leader and subject matter expert in bipolar disorder. Natasha is the author of the acclaimed book, Lost Marbles: Insights into My Life with Depression & Bipolar.
Natasha has been the proud recipient of many awards including a WEGO Health Award for health activism, being named an Invisible Illness Champion by Healthline, and an Erasing the Stigma Leadership award by Didi Hirsch. Natasha works to bring high-quality, insightful and trusted information on bipolar disorder and related illnesses to the public while engaging with the mental health community.
Tonight’s guest is Natasha Tracy who is an award winning author, speaker and life coach. She was born and raised in Canada. Growing up, she was taught that mental illness was not important or severe. By the time she turned 19, she became depressed and suicidal. Eventually, she was on the brink of taking her own life so she decided to see a doctor who diagnosed her as depressed when she knew that she was bipolar. In the future, it becomes revealed that she was in fact bipolar which resulted in her taking treatment for the wrong disorder for an extended period of time. When she started the new treatments they all failed. Then her last resort treatment becomes what saved her. There was relief and she started to heal. After many years of trial and error, she has a treatment that worked. Later, she got introduced to writing after meeting a man who was a writer. After seeing what his job entailed, she knew she could do the same.
She started writing about her personal experiences. She was able to put her thoughts on depression and mental health into words. After writing her blog for an extended period of time, she was contacted by someone saying that she saved her life. Natasha’s writing is what gave that person that strength to move forward. Her love for writing is what propelled her to move towards writing books. She said that even if she stopped getting paid she would still have to write. Writing books allowed her to say more to her audience and elaborate on certain topic that could not previously be said. Her book titled Lost Marbles features insights on depression and bipolar disorder.
Laughter is also something that can heal people. When people are down, making them laugh is like instant relief. Next, the stigma of mental health is discussed. Many people do not believe in it. In addition, Natasha states that discrimination is being faced towards mental health victims. Some people treat them unjustly. Since Natasha is bipolar, people think that she has anger issues when she does not. Furthermore, people with depression choose to take their lives because they believe that their pain will never end. Mental health awareness is partially used to educate people so that the numbers decrease.
Growing up, Albert was a huge baseball fan. He has memories of going to games with his family and watching a NY Mets double header. The first game lasted a regulation nine innings while the second game got extended to 23. He left during the 17th and got home to watch the end. He treated that game of extended innings as a sign of hope. Natasha strongly believes that with time things get better. If Natasha would have taken her own life that one day, she never would have gone skydiving over a hundred times. Depression was telling her that she would never be able to continue but she beat it. Since then, she has been able to help countless other people. It is important to know when to make changes in life. Sometimes it is hard to speak up against certain people with titles but it is important when needed.
00:00:45.120 --> 00:01:09.420 Albert Dabah: hi there, welcome to extra innings covering all the bases on extra innings we talk about subjects like a mental health mental wellness bipolar disorder depression and suicide and we talk about how we deal with this stigma of all these challenges that are universal.
00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:27.360 Albert Dabah: My name is Albert dabba I am a filmmaker life coach and therapist and I made a film called extra innings which is now on Amazon prime and it deals with my family growing up in the 1960s.
00:01:27.990 --> 00:01:42.630 Albert Dabah: With the disorders within our family, so we talk about all these subjects with people from all over the map, who work in all different kinds of professions and.
00:01:43.080 --> 00:01:59.010 Albert Dabah: have overcome or work with people who overcome or work on doing their best to overcome all these different challenges that we talked about, and one of the main things that I feel is so important is erasing the stigma of mental illness.
00:02:00.030 --> 00:02:11.190 Albert Dabah: tonight on our show we have a really wonderful guests we've talked several times her name is Natasha Tracy and she's an award winning writer.
00:02:12.210 --> 00:02:22.350 Albert Dabah: consultant, and has written speaker and has written thousands of articles on mental illness so Natasha how are you today.
00:02:23.370 --> 00:02:25.560 Natasha Tracy: Doing pretty well Albert thanks for having me on.
00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:29.460 Albert Dabah: Sure welcome, we were really glad to have you on the show tonight.
00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:47.490 Albert Dabah: So uh tell us a little bit about your journey, where you were maybe where you live, and where you come from and how did you get into the whole field of mental health mental illness.
00:02:48.720 --> 00:02:53.790 Albert Dabah: We talked a little bit about bipolar disorder over the phone tell us about that.
00:02:55.020 --> 00:03:00.900 Albert Dabah: And you know we'd love to hear you our guests are always very interested in learning about different people's journeys.
00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.340 Natasha Tracy: Sure, so i'm born and bred in the Pacific Northwest.
00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:17.190 Natasha Tracy: Actually, in Canada, which is where i'm calling from today in British Columbia and it turns out that my family doesn't have a very good history when it comes to mental health and mental illness.
00:03:18.390 --> 00:03:29.670 Natasha Tracy: I didn't understand this, when I was younger and growing up, but by the time I was about 19 years old, I was suffering from a really drastic depression and that depression.
00:03:30.480 --> 00:03:39.360 Natasha Tracy: was so severe that I was suicidal and I was self harming and I was crying all the time for no reason and I.
00:03:39.810 --> 00:03:49.590 Natasha Tracy: Remember what happened to me was I was actually traveling in Europe, I had taken a semester off from university and I was traveling in Europe, and I was at this beautiful little tiny hotel in Spain.
00:03:50.130 --> 00:03:58.710 Natasha Tracy: And I got about a bed, and I shuttered the windows, so that the beautiful sunlight wouldn't come in my room and then I got into bed, and I just started to cry.
00:03:59.130 --> 00:04:11.640 Natasha Tracy: And I cried and I cried and I realized at that particular moment that if I could be in that amazing place surrounded by these amazing people then there and be just sobbing in bed.
00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:19.980 Natasha Tracy: Then there was something really wrong with me, but I had no idea what it was, I was brought up to not believe in mental illness.
00:04:20.340 --> 00:04:32.040 Natasha Tracy: And in fact I was brought up to think that mental illness was just about you know people's own frailty and depression was about weak moral character and you know all of the stigmatic.
00:04:32.790 --> 00:04:44.880 Natasha Tracy: beliefs, that people had I had them, but as a person who was very severely depressed I decided that I had to go see a counselor because I actually was concerned, I was going to take my own life.
00:04:45.570 --> 00:04:57.690 Natasha Tracy: And when I saw the counselor he said to me, you have to see a doctor he recognized right away, but what I was having was not just mental concerns but actually a mental illness.
00:04:58.260 --> 00:05:03.420 Natasha Tracy: And I didn't want to see a doctor, as I said, I was, I was brought up not to believe in that sort of thing.
00:05:04.140 --> 00:05:10.500 Natasha Tracy: But I was so scared I was so scared as a 19 year old, and so I agreed to go see a doctor.
00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:20.010 Natasha Tracy: And when I finally did actually see a psychiatrist he did actually diagnosed me with a mental illness, unfortunately, he diagnosed me with the wrong one.
00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:30.690 Natasha Tracy: He diagnosed me with depression and actually what I have is bipolar disorder, this is actually a very common thing in terms of getting misdiagnosed and so.
00:05:31.980 --> 00:05:41.490 Natasha Tracy: I actually knew at the time that it was a misdiagnosis I told him that I had bipolar disorder, I had done reading and that's what I came to understand.
00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:55.110 Natasha Tracy: But he didn't listen to me, and so I basically I was put on incorrect treatments for a couple of years because of this incorrect diagnosis and myself, I just didn't feel that I could stand up to him.
00:05:56.070 --> 00:06:07.050 Natasha Tracy: Because I was 19 and because he was a doctor, so it took a couple of years to get the correct diagnosis and to get put on some treatment that actually was successful.
00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:12.570 Natasha Tracy: And it was a very long journey, for me it took years to get on a medication that actually helped me at all.
00:06:13.320 --> 00:06:23.850 Natasha Tracy: And, in the end, what I ended up taking was medication that wasn't actually approved for bipolar disorder, but that my then psychiatrist, which was a different one he said.
00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:31.230 Natasha Tracy: Take this, we think that it might work there's some upcoming research that suggests that it might and so.
00:06:31.980 --> 00:06:37.110 Natasha Tracy: I tried it because, basically, I was desperate and I had tried everything that was supposed to work and it didn't.
00:06:38.010 --> 00:06:51.330 Natasha Tracy: And it was basically a miracle for me that particular medication and that guests that my then psychiatrist took was an incredible miracle that actually turned my entire life around.
00:06:52.920 --> 00:07:01.110 Natasha Tracy: And that was when I started to heal from bipolar disorder now, unfortunately, for me, my my history since that has been really bumpy.
00:07:02.130 --> 00:07:18.300 Natasha Tracy: As is the case with many people with bipolar disorder those that medication stopped being effective within a couple of years, unfortunately, and then that led to many more medication trials and cocktail trials and all kinds of things looking for something else that would work.
00:07:19.830 --> 00:07:31.740 Natasha Tracy: And, basically, what happened was in 2009 I was working at a fancy tech company in the states, and I was laid off, thanks to reverberations of the 2008 highest housing crisis.
00:07:32.880 --> 00:07:55.440 Natasha Tracy: And I had to go back home to Canada, which I did, and when I went back home, I had to get a new psychiatrist because I had been living in the States and I moved back home again and I went and was assessed by a psychiatrist there and the psychologist who assessed me decided that.
00:07:56.730 --> 00:07:59.490 Natasha Tracy: I wouldn't get a psychiatrist that's what she decided.
00:08:00.540 --> 00:08:08.730 Natasha Tracy: and her reasoning was that I had tried every treatment and they'd all failed so there was no point in me having a psychiatrist.
00:08:09.960 --> 00:08:16.170 Natasha Tracy: Unfortunately, this led to a very bad time for me and, in fact, led to a suicide attempt.
00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:27.330 Natasha Tracy: After that I was able to find a psychiatrist who would actually see me and I did find a cocktail that was effective at that time.
00:08:27.990 --> 00:08:36.930 Natasha Tracy: So it was around about this time that a friend of mine said to me that I should be a writer i'd gotten laid off, and I couldn't find another job.
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:50.070 Natasha Tracy: And I said I can't be a writer I don't know anything about being a writer, and he says to me, being a writer is really easy all you do is print up a business card that says writer on the front of it so that's what I did.
00:08:51.570 --> 00:08:58.620 Natasha Tracy: I became a writer at that particular moment I had been writing professionally for seven years, at that time.
00:08:58.920 --> 00:09:07.980 Natasha Tracy: And that was how I became professional was in that particular moment when I had gotten laid off and i'd had the suicide attempt, and then I was finally getting better again.
00:09:08.370 --> 00:09:15.390 Natasha Tracy: That was the moment that I became a professional writer advocate speaker and basically i've been running with it ever since.
00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:20.010 Albert Dabah: wow um let me ask you a couple of questions.
00:09:23.070 --> 00:09:26.670 Albert Dabah: bipolar disorder, how would you characterize it.
00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:37.380 Natasha Tracy: So bipolar disorder is is characterized by experienced a very elevated periods, and those are known as manias or hypomania.
00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:47.070 Natasha Tracy: And then very low periods and those of course are known as depressions so in order for you to be diagnosed with bipolar disorder, you have to have had both the elevated periods.
00:09:47.400 --> 00:09:54.060 Natasha Tracy: And the depressed periods in order to get that diagnosis now for me, I actually have something called bipolar Type two.
00:09:54.510 --> 00:10:02.160 Natasha Tracy: Now, in bipolar type to you don't suffer from classic mania classic mania is what you usually see in the movies, and on TV.
00:10:02.430 --> 00:10:10.650 Natasha Tracy: Where the person is running around and they're spending all their money and they're having all the sex and they're doing a lot of things they're very unusual becoming psychotic all that kind of stuff.
00:10:11.640 --> 00:10:22.800 Natasha Tracy: I don't get as elevated as that so I get something called hypomania which means mania light basically so i'm in that elevated direction but not to the height of mania.
00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:31.980 Natasha Tracy: And so that's what makes me bipolar Type two instead of bipolar Type one, and I do want to mention that well, those are the classic mood.
00:10:32.430 --> 00:10:42.870 Natasha Tracy: episodes that people with bipolar disorder face, there is another kind of mood episode which is a mixed mood where there are symptoms from the elevated mood and the depressed mood.
00:10:43.410 --> 00:10:54.000 Natasha Tracy: occurring at the same time and that's actually a very common experience is once the one that I have and it's actually a very dangerous experience.
00:10:54.750 --> 00:11:07.620 Natasha Tracy: Because you get all this energy that you have with an elevated mood, but you have extreme depression and possibly even suicidality so it can be a very dangerous combination so that's a mixed mood and that happens, a lot as well.
00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:28.470 Albert Dabah: wow um you know i've often thought about bipolar disorder in terms of my sister, who I don't think was ever diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but in looking over and knowing her I definitely feel she had bipolar disorder and.
00:11:29.550 --> 00:11:37.200 Albert Dabah: You know, things have changed over the years, just like you're saying you went to different psychologists I think medications change over the years.
00:11:38.580 --> 00:11:44.700 Albert Dabah: New things come up people scientists are studying them and the effects of them so uh.
00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:53.430 Albert Dabah: With in talking about bipolar disorder like now, how are you on medication now on a regular basis.
00:11:53.730 --> 00:12:00.150 Natasha Tracy: Yes, so today i'm on quite a complex cocktail of medication, in order to maintain stability.
00:12:00.540 --> 00:12:07.770 Natasha Tracy: Unfortunately, for me, I am not one of those people who are really lucky and can be on a simple regimen i'm actually on a fairly complex one.
00:12:08.010 --> 00:12:18.390 Natasha Tracy: But that's what works best in order to keep me stable and keep me functional and it is very complicated, but but it's something that I have found that works, after many years of trial and error.
00:12:19.110 --> 00:12:30.810 Albert Dabah: I say so, you said you you're a writer and you've written all these different articles so, but you but you wrote, he said i'm professionally for years.
00:12:31.140 --> 00:12:43.920 Albert Dabah: So tell me about that, like you, you obviously had a gift a talent for writing to be able to write professionally but you were writing on professionally what will you writing what would tell me about that.
00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:45.630 Natasha Tracy: So um.
00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:51.480 Natasha Tracy: So, as all good stories start with this story begins with a boy.
00:12:52.230 --> 00:12:52.830 Albert Dabah: i'm a.
00:12:54.300 --> 00:12:54.900 Albert Dabah: star.
00:12:54.990 --> 00:13:03.030 Natasha Tracy: yeah so I was working actually at a tech company and I met this man who was wonderful and he was a professional writer.
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:08.250 Natasha Tracy: And I thought he was great and I was really taken with him, like the second I met him.
00:13:08.730 --> 00:13:20.730 Natasha Tracy: And so, one weekend I actually had a cold and I was at home in bed, and I couldn't do anything so I looked him up and it turned out, he had this blog and he'd written all this stuff over time.
00:13:21.090 --> 00:13:30.000 Natasha Tracy: And I read it, and it was amazing he was amazing and so after reading all this work that he had done I literally said to myself, I can do that.
00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:35.820 Natasha Tracy: Which is kind of ridiculous honestly it's hubris for me to think that I could do that.
00:13:36.450 --> 00:13:47.250 Natasha Tracy: But as it turned out, I did start writing and I thought that I wouldn't continue, I thought I would try it and I thought I would set it aside, I didn't think i'd be necessarily brilliant at it.
00:13:48.180 --> 00:13:57.300 Natasha Tracy: But it just turned out that I actually had a knack for writing and, over time, I just kept writing more and more, I was writing every single day I couldn't stop.
00:13:57.930 --> 00:14:02.520 Natasha Tracy: and, eventually, I was writing about my my experience with mental illness primarily.
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:17.550 Natasha Tracy: and eventually I started getting comments on the blog and these comments were from other people with mental illness, who had just found me I was reading anonymously, so no one I knew knew where I was no one knew what I was saying, and these people would write to me and say.
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.980 Natasha Tracy: You know, thank you so much for writing this you could be writing about me.
00:14:24.450 --> 00:14:27.330 Natasha Tracy: And it was that kind of feedback that made me want to continue.
00:14:27.690 --> 00:14:35.310 Albert Dabah: So basically you were writing stuff that was relatable to people and you connected that way.
00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.400 Albert Dabah: That right now, which I think is you know.
00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:53.580 Albert Dabah: fabulous because that's the way to go, you want to connect with people with your writing we're gonna have to take a break, right now, but i'd love to continue on this conversation of writing because it's a wonderful way to express yourself thanks we'll be right back.
00:17:22.020 --> 00:17:30.030 Albert Dabah: hi there we're back with Natasha Tracy so Natasha um i'd love to hear more about how you got started in writing, you said.
00:17:30.990 --> 00:17:43.200 Albert Dabah: You had a friend, a guy and he was writing all these blogs, and you felt like hey you could do that, so how did, and you started connecting with other people um what were you writing about when you were.
00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:53.610 Albert Dabah: You were writing about yourself and how you felt and bipolar disorder and you will you writing about your experiences and stuff like that.
00:17:54.180 --> 00:18:04.860 Natasha Tracy: yeah So when I started writing I wrote very raw pieces about my experiences with mental illness so bipolar disorder and a lot of depression, a lot of suicidality.
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:15.540 Natasha Tracy: That kind of stuff I mean that was very much what I was writing in those beginning periods, because that's very much what I was experiencing and those periods was a lot of depression, a lot of suicidality and.
00:18:16.050 --> 00:18:29.460 Natasha Tracy: And I didn't really know how to process at all, but writing gave me a way to actually get those thoughts out and put them somewhere else right get them out of my head and put them somewhere else.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:44.070 Natasha Tracy: And it was not until someone said to me, you know you're saving people's lives right and I didn't believe this person right, I did not believe in, when he said that to me, I thought that's ridiculous i'm just reading a blog anonymously online.
00:18:45.660 --> 00:18:47.730 Natasha Tracy: And then someone wrote to me.
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:52.350 Natasha Tracy: and said that I had saved their life my work had done that.
00:18:54.210 --> 00:19:02.310 Natasha Tracy: And I was so touched, it was the first person to write me and tell me that and, to be honest with you i've had many, many people write me and tell me that now.
00:19:02.970 --> 00:19:12.660 Natasha Tracy: Over the years that i've saved their lives and that's I think the power of writing when someone can actually see themselves in your in your words and they can see that.
00:19:13.020 --> 00:19:19.320 Natasha Tracy: You have survived this horrific thing that can be mental illness you've survived, and you are continuing.
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:26.790 Natasha Tracy: Then it gives them just that tiny bit of hope and that tiny spark that they need to continue forward.
00:19:27.540 --> 00:19:41.040 Natasha Tracy: And what's important to know is that while people certainly have said that it's me that save their life it's not really what it really is is those people finding strength with in themselves to move forward and continue.
00:19:41.430 --> 00:19:53.580 Natasha Tracy: The power, the strength is in those people, it is in all of those people and but sometimes it takes a few extra words for people to find it in themselves.
00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:56.940 Albert Dabah: yeah well, I think.
00:19:58.050 --> 00:20:08.760 Albert Dabah: When people feel one of the things that I say a lot and believe in is that when you're feeling challenged, that is really debilitating.
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:16.440 Albert Dabah: You feel you can feel like there's nothing else in the world you're lost.
00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:33.600 Albert Dabah: And living it within my family and at times in my own times, where i've been depressed and you know there were times that I thought I would turn out like my brother or sister, and for me writing the film was just a wonderful.
00:20:34.800 --> 00:20:42.750 Albert Dabah: Wonderful experiences, not even saying it right, it was just an experience that I was able to relive and look at.
00:20:43.770 --> 00:20:55.500 Albert Dabah: What I was writing and look at my family and understand it better, you know from afar, and then actually shooting in the film and then seeing it on film.
00:20:56.100 --> 00:21:04.740 Albert Dabah: Like now I haven't watched it in quite a while, but I wouldn't when we're editing the film and there was a time when we were editing the film I went to my really best friend and.
00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:12.180 Albert Dabah: I was really feeling depressed I go what am I doing this all for, and you know, like, I felt like I was torturing myself.
00:21:12.690 --> 00:21:21.840 Albert Dabah: Because it was a difficult to just you know go in and see it and relive it and and he said, if you can save one life is worth it.
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:43.590 Albert Dabah: And it really touched me, and you know it was it was a momentary feeling that I had over a few days that was like you know just tough and, but I understand exactly what you're saying is that when you can touch people with whatever it is what you've written what you say.
00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:55.050 Albert Dabah: Like if you are you do you do public speaking so someone could be there, I would think and just hear a couple of phrases sometimes that could hit them.
00:21:55.830 --> 00:22:12.330 Albert Dabah: That is that they can connect with it is it's remarkable how people have the strength to dig deep into themselves now, it always doesn't always happen that way, as we know, unfortunately.
00:22:13.530 --> 00:22:15.690 Albert Dabah: What I What I wonder is when.
00:22:17.130 --> 00:22:29.370 Albert Dabah: When you decided to keep writing what motivated you to to actually you've written books, so how did you get from writing blogs to writing books.
00:22:30.030 --> 00:22:40.290 Natasha Tracy: um yeah so that's a great question I guess you know, I was so driven to write at from a personal perspective just internally, I was really driven to write.
00:22:40.650 --> 00:22:49.710 Natasha Tracy: And I, and I think a lot of writers are right So even if you stopped paying me this exact Second, I would still have to write because writers right and it's what they do.
00:22:50.190 --> 00:23:01.890 Natasha Tracy: And so I felt that pressure to write regardless, and so, sometimes I would feel pressure to write about what was going on in my life because I needed the catharsis of actually writing it down.
00:23:02.370 --> 00:23:11.100 Natasha Tracy: Other times, I felt compelled to write for other people to try to explain to them something you know point that I wanted to make or something I wanted to bring forward.
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:24.030 Natasha Tracy: But, for me, the challenge has never been motivation to write, for me, the challenge has been putting my writing in the right spot putting it in the right way for people to digest it and that's how the book came about.
00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:39.840 Natasha Tracy: The book is called lost marbles insights into my life with depression and bipolar and you can get it on Amazon and it's been very well received and it takes basically what i've done on the blog and expand on it so that.
00:23:40.470 --> 00:23:49.200 Natasha Tracy: You can get a full sort of a full sense of a subject matter like suicide, or like depression or something like that so.
00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:56.910 Natasha Tracy: I took basically what I had there and then I just filled in all the blanks and so that I could give someone a complete package.
00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:10.410 Natasha Tracy: Because you know blog articles are great, but you only have a couple thousand words to make a point you know, in a book, you have a whole lot more space where you can actually say something to people and create.
00:24:11.130 --> 00:24:15.660 Natasha Tracy: Almost a movement and a sense of a sense of movement within the reader.
00:24:16.170 --> 00:24:31.320 Natasha Tracy: And that's really what I wanted to do with that particular project, and in fact i'm working on a second book right now and it's the goal, again, is a movement again in that reader to try to get them to see their illness and new ways to handle that illness.
00:24:32.130 --> 00:24:43.950 Natasha Tracy: Because learning about the illness is great and that's the first step, but then the next step is how are you going to take that illness and how are you going to handle it every single day for the rest of your life.
00:24:45.810 --> 00:24:52.890 Albert Dabah: I love I love the title, you have lost mom lost marbles it's it's.
00:24:54.060 --> 00:24:56.490 Albert Dabah: it's a great title, how did you come up with that one.
00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:09.960 Natasha Tracy: You know um I was brainstorming for titles over a long period of time actually like over a couple of weeks kind of thing I was thinking about different titles and I couldn't come up with anything that I liked and.
00:25:10.860 --> 00:25:23.130 Natasha Tracy: So you know I had a bunch of suggestions and none of them felt right to me but i'm I have a dark sense of humor that's my my personal thing, and so, when last marbles hit me in the head, if you will.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.980 Natasha Tracy: It was, if you will.
00:25:27.030 --> 00:25:37.350 Natasha Tracy: that's right exactly that just felt right to me because it was like I actually have a piece in the book and it's very early in the book and it talks about how our brains are.
00:25:37.830 --> 00:25:48.270 Natasha Tracy: are like a big jar with marbles in them, and so I use this metaphor, to talk about why some people develop mental illness and why some people don't develop mental illness and I talked about how.
00:25:48.900 --> 00:26:02.490 Natasha Tracy: Some people have many marbles and their jar because of genetic factors, and some people have them because of trump traumatic life experiences and some people have them because of all these different reasons, and then eventually if your jar gets full you lose your Marbles
00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:18.510 Natasha Tracy: that's the joke so that's the metaphor and that's the joke, and so that dark sense of humor is very me and I wanted to bring that forward, because a serious as mental illness is and make no mistake about it.
00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:32.910 Natasha Tracy: I take it extremely seriously, I also know that we have to be able to smile at ourselves, we have to be able to laugh, we have to be able to look at it and see even if it's really dark a dark humor to it.
00:26:34.590 --> 00:26:45.600 Albert Dabah: Well, you know I totally agree with you, I think the again, you know losing all your marbles is really funny to hear that, but the having a sense of humor is so important.
00:26:46.350 --> 00:26:59.610 Albert Dabah: I was talking to a good friend of mine who's a comedian and I may or may not have him on the show, but he says, I don't want to talk about anything personal and he's a pretty well known guy in the entertainment field and.
00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:06.210 Albert Dabah: I thought, and I know he's got some personal you know everyone's got personal issues you know and so.
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:17.970 Albert Dabah: I thought about it and I woke up the next morning after talking to him and I thought well you know, and I called them and said, we can talk about how umer helps people I mean immensely.
00:27:19.050 --> 00:27:20.250 Albert Dabah: How we can be.
00:27:21.690 --> 00:27:34.950 Albert Dabah: Whatever it whether it's watching a film or going to the club and listening to a comedian and you know a lot of times you know, depending on who it is and who you are, you can really connect with that kind of.
00:27:35.490 --> 00:27:52.530 Albert Dabah: comedy whether it's dark whether it's slapstick whatever it is, whoever you are, like the other night I just happen to watch regular TV because normally i'll be watching netflix or Amazon a movie or something or sports i'm a big baseball fan, and I ended up watching back to back.
00:27:53.580 --> 00:28:10.770 Albert Dabah: Jerry seinfeld and the honeymooners and I was like thinking how hilariously you know some of it, how stupid, it was, but yet funny and thinking how here I am years later, watching shows i've already seen and.
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:29.850 Albert Dabah: Thinking oh my gosh it's it's hilariously weird and funny and and you and seeing you know, knowing what they're going to say because i've seen it before multiple times, and this is years later and i'm going wow it's it's it's great to be able to laugh and.
00:28:31.110 --> 00:28:38.520 Albert Dabah: You know, make a fool of yourself at times and whatever whatever whatever it is that makes you laugh and makes other people laugh.
00:28:40.800 --> 00:28:50.910 Albert Dabah: So I think that's a great point that I don't know if it's discussed enough in you know, in situations where we're talking about mental illness, particularly.
00:28:53.130 --> 00:28:58.950 Albert Dabah: just trying to think, but I never heard of a therapist say, do you ever laugh or you know laughing is really great for you yeah.
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:10.620 Natasha Tracy: I mean, I really believe that laughing lightens your soul right when you can do it, and you can genuinely feel like something's funny than I do believe that lightens everything in your life for.
00:29:11.040 --> 00:29:20.550 Natasha Tracy: Even if it's a split second right, I think that that's that's a huge like when you are depressed if you can get even half a smile that's a good day.
00:29:21.030 --> 00:29:39.570 Albert Dabah: Absolutely absolutely well we'll come back to talking about laughing and how I want to talk more about the whole stigma of mental illness which is you know huge and we'll be right back with Natasha Tracy right after these commercials coming up, thank you.
00:32:26.340 --> 00:32:29.850 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with Natasha Tracy we were just talking about how.
00:32:30.870 --> 00:32:34.890 Albert Dabah: Really, how laughter can heal the soul and just make it feel good.
00:32:36.600 --> 00:32:47.220 Albert Dabah: I wanted to ask you about how because you, you have mentioned in your bio and i'm sure what you talk about and what you write about.
00:32:47.760 --> 00:32:57.270 Albert Dabah: there's a lot about the stigma of mental illness and I think you know i've heard some people say well it's not so much a stigma anymore.
00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:08.610 Albert Dabah: And, and because it's it's all out there now people are talking more about it and it's good that people are talking more about it, and people are coming out about it.
00:33:09.750 --> 00:33:15.420 Albert Dabah: On the other hand, people are still taking their lives people still are.
00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:28.050 Albert Dabah: Dealing with depression dealing with bipolar disorder dealing with all kinds of anxieties because life has you know a lot of ups and downs, a lot of challenges from wherever it comes from.
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:36.420 Albert Dabah: So tell me what you think and how you deal with when you're talking to people or writing about it, about the the whole stigma.
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.510 Albert Dabah: of mental illness there's.
00:33:39.810 --> 00:33:57.690 Natasha Tracy: there's so much to say on the topic of stigma and one of the things i'd like to say is that the word stigma and the concept of an anti stigma campaign is really um it's irritating to me, because what I want to focus on the word Stigma is a very Lucy goosey word.
00:33:58.080 --> 00:33:59.880 Natasha Tracy: What I want to focus on is prejudice.
00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:09.390 Natasha Tracy: and discrimination, because that is what people with mental illness face, you know, yes, people talk about anxiety disorders people talk about depression that's true.
00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:20.040 Natasha Tracy: But you know what people don't talk about bipolar disorder people don't talk about suicide attempts people don't talk about self harm that is not stuff that people talk about.
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:30.060 Natasha Tracy: When they when you look at mental illnesses, for example, schizophrenia is one of the most maligned mental illnesses those people are highly discriminated against.
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:37.950 Natasha Tracy: So Stigma is a Lucy goosey word for discrimination, which is what most people are experiencing you know when.
00:34:38.850 --> 00:34:47.730 Natasha Tracy: When you see a person on the street, perhaps and they're talking to someone who you can't see but that person is having a conversation with someone that you can't see.
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:58.470 Natasha Tracy: Are you scared that's my question, are you scared now, my answer is no i'm not I understand very well what mental illnesses and I can tell you.
00:34:58.770 --> 00:35:06.690 Natasha Tracy: That that person who's having a conversation with someone you can't see is likely more scared than you will ever need to be, I can tell you that right now.
00:35:07.140 --> 00:35:19.500 Natasha Tracy: But many people would look at a situation like that and think that that person is a danger to them, this is not true, people who are experiencing psychosis, for example, are not a danger to you.
00:35:20.070 --> 00:35:25.920 Natasha Tracy: But there is a perception that they are there's a perception that because I have bipolar disorder.
00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:32.910 Natasha Tracy: i'm going to become violent or abusive I have never been violent or abusive one moment of my life.
00:35:33.570 --> 00:35:42.810 Natasha Tracy: And so it's that perception so when people say Oh, people are talking about it and it's out in the open, people are talking about it and that's really great.
00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:49.440 Natasha Tracy: But if you ever want to kill a dinner party conversation tell them that you've attempted suicide like.
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:58.950 Natasha Tracy: This is not something that people talk about and it's and they don't talk about it in a real way so some things are being talked about that's great.
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:06.990 Natasha Tracy: But we need to talk more and we need to talk more forthrightly about what the experience is like you know someone saying that they have depression.
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:20.850 Natasha Tracy: We can identify with being sad but the experience of having depression is so much more than just being sad that is one of a myriad of effects that you have when you're actually depressed.
00:36:21.240 --> 00:36:35.190 Natasha Tracy: You have the inability to make decisions, you may have insomnia, you may overeat you may under eat, you may have suicidal plans there's a whole list of things that are going on for a person with depression beyond simply being sad.
00:36:35.670 --> 00:36:48.870 Natasha Tracy: So what are people talking about the experience of sadness that doesn't change that's Okay, but that's a tiny, tiny part of what a mental illness really is so what my job is is to.
00:36:49.440 --> 00:37:03.030 Natasha Tracy: Try to illuminate the spectrum of what the experience of having a mental illness and particularly in my case, a very serious mental illness really is like that's my job and that's what I think.
00:37:04.050 --> 00:37:07.740 Natasha Tracy: defeats the concept of stigma and this prejudice and discrimination.
00:37:09.720 --> 00:37:11.310 Albert Dabah: So in.
00:37:12.990 --> 00:37:18.240 Albert Dabah: and suicide attempts let's say when people have a suicide attempt um.
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:26.460 Albert Dabah: I had one situation that I thought, if I take all these pills, I could end this.
00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:36.990 Albert Dabah: was a breakup I could I could end it all right now, and I did, but I had a thought, and it was the only time I ever had that thought and.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:46.350 Albert Dabah: uh you know I had toast asleep, but I felt, let me just take the whole thing, but I did, but I had that thought it was the only was the really the only time I had that.
00:37:47.610 --> 00:37:53.910 Albert Dabah: And I knew I was in a situation that I saw this was happening I this woman was breaking up.
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.500 Albert Dabah: But I don't know I mean I saw.
00:37:59.610 --> 00:38:13.680 Albert Dabah: My own brother try to take his life once and unsuccessful I didn't see it, but I saw the after results he went in front of a car and got it, but then, when he did finally take his life, he took all these pills, I found them.
00:38:15.180 --> 00:38:22.410 Albert Dabah: So when you survive that attempt like for yourself how how did, how did you feel.
00:38:23.790 --> 00:38:30.090 Natasha Tracy: Well, first of all, I just want to say, from the bottom of my heart i'm so sorry that you had to go through that experience.
00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:38.640 Natasha Tracy: project for you and for everyone involved in that situation, so my heart goes out to you for that.
00:38:39.900 --> 00:38:47.820 Natasha Tracy: Now, when it comes to my own suicide attempt My belief is that suffering plus homelessness is what tends to bring about suicide.
00:38:48.450 --> 00:38:52.470 Natasha Tracy: So it's the idea that you're suffering will never end.
00:38:52.830 --> 00:39:01.230 Natasha Tracy: that's what brings about suicide this hopeless feeling you're suffering is so severe and your suffering isn't going anywhere.
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.320 Natasha Tracy: that's what brings about a suicide is how fast what brought about my and that's what tends to bring about people suicide attempts is.
00:39:07.650 --> 00:39:22.080 Natasha Tracy: The idea that they're suffering will never end, and believe me when I tell you it is a grave suffering, it is not mild, it is not stubbing your toe it is severe and it is soul crushing the pain and suffering of having depression.
00:39:22.770 --> 00:39:28.920 Natasha Tracy: And so that hopelessness that tells you, it will never end that's what does it, and for me.
00:39:30.630 --> 00:39:42.030 Natasha Tracy: I was in a very bad place in my life and, as I mentioned earlier, I was told I wasn't allowed to have a psychiatrist that no psychiatrists would see me because I was hopeless.
00:39:42.330 --> 00:39:52.590 Natasha Tracy: And so I knew that if I couldn't get a psychiatrist, then I couldn't get treatment and if I couldn't get treatments that I couldn't get better if I couldn't get better than there was absolutely no point in going on.
00:39:53.070 --> 00:40:06.450 Natasha Tracy: That was my train of thought at that time, and so, when I woke up from my suicide attempt it was like a flash of light hit me and I said in my head, it was.
00:40:07.290 --> 00:40:22.230 Natasha Tracy: That woman's wrong but that woman who assessed me is wrong, I need a doctor she's wrong like that was what if it took me being at that lowest of low points to actually get to the point where.
00:40:22.680 --> 00:40:33.060 Natasha Tracy: I was prepared to stand up for myself and say no that's not right, I need a doctor and I took proactive steps to make sure that I could get a psychiatrist at that time.
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:54.060 Natasha Tracy: But certainly people who have attempted suicide have many experiences of doing that sometimes people feel instantaneous regret, with a suicide attempt I can't say I felt regret I actually didn't all I felt was positive forward motion.
00:40:55.110 --> 00:41:00.030 Natasha Tracy: that's what I felt out of my suicide attempt, but it varies dramatically from person to person.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:07.560 Natasha Tracy: And, but what I will say is that if you do attempt suicide and you don't change something if something in your life doesn't change.
00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:16.950 Natasha Tracy: If you don't get treatment if you don't get a new doctor if you don't get a new assessment if you don't get something that is different and new you're headed for another suicide attempt.
00:41:17.490 --> 00:41:27.270 Natasha Tracy: Because that that suffering that drove you to a suicide attempt is going to keep driving you until you make a change and do something different.
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:38.610 Natasha Tracy: And that's much easier said than done, no doubt about that, but I do believe that that change is absolutely necessary to point you in a different direction because.
00:41:39.120 --> 00:41:44.790 Natasha Tracy: Even if you can alter your life by just two degrees just two degrees that's all you have to alter by.
00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:57.780 Natasha Tracy: That is enough just to keep your life and that's what I want that's what everyone wants is to keep your life changes so that you aren't in that kind of suffering every single day.
00:41:58.230 --> 00:42:14.190 Natasha Tracy: No matter how bad the suffering is, and I have been there, I know how horrendous it is to live through but there's always a way through it and there's always a way to change, I believe this to be true for everyone.
00:42:14.310 --> 00:42:23.670 Albert Dabah: yeah I think what what happens when people from seeing into my own family two suicides is that.
00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:38.730 Albert Dabah: That it got to the point, for both of my brother and sister where there was no hope anymore, they came to that point where nothing will change the way they feel.
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:50.070 Albert Dabah: Dr feinberg when I had him on the show and other times when I spoke to him we've talked about the whole idea, because there are people that say well with it's a selfish act.
00:42:51.930 --> 00:43:01.950 Albert Dabah: And he said oh it's not a selfish act it's it's an act of it's like think of it, he said, think of it as like a hammer pounding on your head.
00:43:02.430 --> 00:43:17.430 Albert Dabah: A hundreds of times and you just can't take that pain anymore and that's how he described it very visually I felt and I really believe in that, from my own vision and I never felt it selfish, I think you know people who.
00:43:18.120 --> 00:43:23.130 Albert Dabah: have not been around it or don't have the sensitivity to understand that.
00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:27.870 Albert Dabah: What that kind of suffering is like so I.
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:31.680 Albert Dabah: was able to see it firsthand.
00:43:33.570 --> 00:43:43.440 Albert Dabah: and experience it through the family and all that and and and that's what I think is important, what you're doing is so important, the writing.
00:43:43.830 --> 00:43:59.220 Albert Dabah: The re you know talking to people about your own experiences and people writing you back and telling you how whatever they say, and if they say they you saved their life that's that's wonderful to hear I just had a client I work with and.
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:15.090 Albert Dabah: He went through a really tough tough time in his life, he lost his wife and a fire and his house and everything and and he's coming out of that deep deep deep depression and he asked me if he would write something for to him to get a.
00:44:16.560 --> 00:44:18.840 Albert Dabah: A dog, you know, a.
00:44:19.890 --> 00:44:20.580 Natasha Tracy: Service animal.
00:44:20.610 --> 00:44:31.260 Albert Dabah: yeah service dog, and you know it was just wonderful that I felt it was just a great letter he wrote me to ask them to write my you know credentials and so he can get a.
00:44:31.890 --> 00:44:41.010 Albert Dabah: dog like that anyway we'll come right back with them take another break and we'll be back with Natasha Tracy with all this great information, thank you.
00:46:57.390 --> 00:46:59.580 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with the Natasha Tracy.
00:47:00.690 --> 00:47:10.740 Albert Dabah: One of the things I thought oh during the break was we were just talking about how suffering is can get so bad.
00:47:11.790 --> 00:47:20.730 Albert Dabah: For someone where they have that those thoughts of taking their life and they don't see any chance of hope at all and.
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:30.600 Albert Dabah: You talked about the the name of your book, the last marbles and how you had different titles and stuff and I love the title.
00:47:31.740 --> 00:47:46.020 Albert Dabah: When I wrote my film, I had a like a working title that I was never happy with I just and then one day I took this I had studied, a lot of acting and I was.
00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:57.720 Albert Dabah: Taking this four or five day seminar on learning about how people see you, it was only about eight people over four full days and we had homework at night.
00:47:58.350 --> 00:48:07.500 Albert Dabah: And at the end, the two guys that led the seminar over the workshop over the four days said they came out with.
00:48:08.220 --> 00:48:24.780 Albert Dabah: What they called your essence and they came out with different ones, but they would have one one main one of what they felt your essence was and, for me it was you know what I love extra innings and then they explained it and.
00:48:26.160 --> 00:48:36.810 Albert Dabah: You know, when I first heard it, I was one you know, but I had each each one of us had to do some homework and come back with an amazing experience they had so when I was 12 years old.
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:47.520 Albert Dabah: Again i'm a big baseball fan I learned baseball from my older brother and I went to a double header met giant doubleheader it was on Memorial Day.
00:48:48.060 --> 00:48:58.950 Albert Dabah: When I was 12 years old, and the first game was nine innings of regular game, and the second game back then they'd wait a half hour and then play the second game that went 23 innings.
00:48:59.550 --> 00:49:12.000 Albert Dabah: And I was only 12 years old, and I think I stayed till about the 17th and I had a I figured I better get home ready and I got on justin I ran to the TV and I saw the last out the 23rd any.
00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:24.930 Albert Dabah: So I hope I told the whole story in great detail, because I went back into the box scores, and I looked at it and I really had it in my head and reminded me of it, and it really comes from the sense of.
00:49:26.130 --> 00:49:37.350 Albert Dabah: In baseball is not regulated by time it's regulated by after nine innings I don't know if you know baseball enough but it's like who has more runs and if it's tied to goes into another inning.
00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:43.860 Albert Dabah: And, and it can go, I think the longest game i'm not even sure, maybe 28 innings or something like that.
00:49:45.180 --> 00:49:47.400 Albert Dabah: But, for me it was like hope there's always hope.
00:49:48.900 --> 00:49:49.650 Albert Dabah: and
00:49:50.670 --> 00:49:55.320 Albert Dabah: The weird thing is now in baseball because a coven last year they changed the rules where.
00:49:57.180 --> 00:50:05.100 Albert Dabah: They if it goes into extra innings they put a runner on second it's like an artificial way to kind of get the game over faster.
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:18.630 Albert Dabah: Right I pisses me off every like the Yankees played one last night i'm a big Yankee fan it's just because you and I played adult baseball like with really great players up until maybe five years ago.
00:50:19.080 --> 00:50:33.450 Albert Dabah: And we would do that and then made sense because i'm playing with guys in their 50s 60s 4070s even so you don't want to play their foot for out, you know, but these guys are in their prime of their careers and there but.
00:50:34.590 --> 00:50:35.610 Albert Dabah: it's something that.
00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:40.110 Albert Dabah: is my own thing but i'm sure there's other people that feel the same way, but.
00:50:40.770 --> 00:50:54.270 Albert Dabah: I think I mentioned it, because about hope, and I really think that if we can touch on hope by whatever it is by you know engaging with someone and having some great laughs and really can turn the switch.
00:50:54.690 --> 00:51:03.180 Albert Dabah: And it might be just for a while, but then you like you said I think it's so important is, you have to make a change if you go through.
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:13.680 Albert Dabah: The are suffering and you feel like you're going to take if you attempt suicide and you get through it and you live through it you're going to have to make a change to keep going.
00:51:14.220 --> 00:51:29.310 Albert Dabah: So I really feel like what you're saying makes total sense to me, and hopefully total sense to other people out there who may be thinking thoughts of whether a suicide, or just feeling depressed or by whatever it is.
00:51:30.570 --> 00:51:36.090 Albert Dabah: I think there's so many challenges in life, and you never know what's going to happen next, but that's also the exciting thing about life.
00:51:36.750 --> 00:51:42.150 Natasha Tracy: And I think what you said, is exactly true which is you never know what's going to happen next.
00:51:42.630 --> 00:51:53.460 Natasha Tracy: Now, depression will tell you that you do know depression will tell you that you are in pain and you will be that way forever it tells you that it tells you that every minute of every day but.
00:51:53.760 --> 00:52:06.780 Natasha Tracy: What you said is correct, which is you really don't know you really don't know what's coming So if you can remember that and try to maintain some curiosity about what's coming next.
00:52:07.830 --> 00:52:18.180 Natasha Tracy: That actually can really help on a day to day basis and say I know it feels like this pain is never going to end it that's a real feeling and it's horrendous but.
00:52:19.290 --> 00:52:39.060 Natasha Tracy: Tomorrow, something new may happen and I truly believe that something new, will happen when you have time and when you wait it out, you made a lovely analogy talking about extra innings sometimes life needs to go into extra innings before you get the result that you need.
00:52:40.110 --> 00:52:52.740 Natasha Tracy: And that's why you have to live to see that I wrote an article about what would have happened, had I have killed myself when I originally became suicidal in my 20s.
00:52:53.580 --> 00:53:06.360 Natasha Tracy: And I talked about how you know I never would have done a skydive right I ended up doing 150 skydives in my 20s right, I never would have done that I never would have gone to Venezuela and flown with the eagles.
00:53:06.450 --> 00:53:06.810 Albert Dabah: You say.
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:08.820 Albert Dabah: You say 150.
00:53:09.030 --> 00:53:09.240 yeah.
00:53:11.940 --> 00:53:16.800 Natasha Tracy: yeah so I never would have flown with the eagles in Venezuela, which I did under a paraglider.
00:53:17.160 --> 00:53:27.480 Natasha Tracy: You know I never would have done all of these different life experiences that depression told me, I would never have depression told me, I would be in pain and suffering forever.
00:53:27.990 --> 00:53:37.980 Natasha Tracy: And you know it just turns out that depression is a liar depression is wrong when that suicidal feeling comes around and it's real.
00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:50.130 Natasha Tracy: it's lying to you, it says there's no hope it says, you will be like that forever, but that's a lie and that's what I think people need to remember you know I have.
00:53:50.610 --> 00:54:00.870 Natasha Tracy: Like I said, you know i've written the book in the last 10 years so since the day, then I attempted suicide, I have done so many new things.
00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:10.320 Natasha Tracy: That I never would have had a chance to do, and I would have not had a chance to affect so many people that I have now had a chance to speak with and.
00:54:10.950 --> 00:54:21.210 Natasha Tracy: make a difference for them, I wouldn't have had that opportunity, had I have died, that day, and so, while it's very hard to talk back to depression.
00:54:21.750 --> 00:54:31.770 Natasha Tracy: You have to you have to tell it that it's a liar and you have to say, you know, a year from now i'm going to look back on this and i'm going to see that something changed something was different.
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:48.450 Natasha Tracy: and eventually it comes to that that's you know that's what will happen, but you know you have to make a change, you have to do something, but eventually you will look back and realize had you have you know actually died there were so many things, you would have missed.
00:54:49.230 --> 00:54:54.750 Albert Dabah: You know I love the what you had just said, and you use the word curiosity.
00:54:55.770 --> 00:55:01.740 Albert Dabah: I think you know when you lose your curiosity you're losing a huge sense of what's out there and.
00:55:04.740 --> 00:55:07.410 Albert Dabah: You really have in this last.
00:55:08.700 --> 00:55:16.650 Albert Dabah: Almost hour or so really have given me something really beautiful of just your optimism and.
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:34.500 Albert Dabah: I didn't even know if optimism is the right word but it feels very optimistic to hear you talk about know that depression is a lie, you know all these things are you're lying to yourself you're you're you're feeling something and you're getting all swelled up inside and.
00:55:36.060 --> 00:55:47.820 Albert Dabah: I think the whole idea is like you said you have to make changes, you have to see that you can make changes like you knew you needed a psychiatrist you knew you needed you knew you needed it and sometimes it's just.
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:56.010 Albert Dabah: it's hard to speak back to people, especially when you're younger, but even when you're older at times you always feel like someone knows more than you.
00:55:56.700 --> 00:56:11.580 Albert Dabah: You can feel that way because they have a title or they're this or that so I really I want to thank you so much for what you've added to the show tonight, because I think your information, and your insight into.
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:18.930 Albert Dabah: Mental illness or just human life is so important for people to understand because.
00:56:19.950 --> 00:56:33.180 Albert Dabah: Whether you're you know you never get depressed or you do get depressed it it's important for people to really be kind to others and try to empathize with others, so.
00:56:33.660 --> 00:56:45.960 Albert Dabah: we're gonna be ending the show, and I want to say thank you Thank you so much for being on the show tonight it's been a pleasure speaking with you and let people know in real quickly, where they can find you.
00:56:47.370 --> 00:56:56.370 Natasha Tracy: You can find me online and it's tasha Tracy calm and at my website there you'll see that i'm on all the social media sites so Natasha underscore Tracy.
00:56:56.670 --> 00:57:07.380 Natasha Tracy: On Twitter and Natasha underscore Tracy underscore writer APP on instagram i'm pretty much everywhere so go to Natasha Tracy calm and check out there's.
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:24.000 Natasha Tracy: I think about 700 articles on mental illness on that website that you can access for free i've also got on demand on demand masterclasses there's information about my book there's so much information that I can give to you that I think will help, so I hope people go there.
00:57:24.210 --> 00:57:31.620 Albert Dabah: All right, i'm sure they will and extra innings is on Amazon prime that night and be well and.
00:57:33.120 --> 00:57:34.500 Albert Dabah: Have a great evening.
00:57:35.520 --> 00:57:38.490 Albert Dabah: enjoy Thank you again thanks bye bye.