On this week's show we will explore the great art of photography, through the lens of New York City.
My guests are David Campany, Managing Director of Programs at the International Center of Photography in New York; and Alex Harsley, documentary photographer and Curator of the 4th Street Photo Gallery in the East Village.
The topic of photography is mentioned first. It is an artform that means a lot to the state of New York. Today’s guests are David Campany who is an author and the managing director of programs at International Center of Photography. In addition, Alex Harsley has joined who is a documentary photographer and Curator of the 4th Street Photo Gallery in the East Village. When David first came to America, it was in the late 1980’s. He is from England but loves the people and the light of New York. The city is so theatrical it seems to be asking to be photographed. David also mentions versatility and how one can walk just two blocks in New York and feel like they’re in a new place. He states how important it is for his program to build strong relationship with their surroundings and community He was able to open a gallery featuring hundreds of images
David is asked what attracted him to the ICP and he explains how it is a perfect fit for him. He enjoys the creative side to his work by taking a space that is given and presenting it in different ways. He also likes collaborating with others to produce a quality finished product. Next, he talks about how in a photography institution, everyone will have a variety of reactions towards an image. That is less likely to occur with painting and drawing. The ICP has a show running currently featuring the theme of life and how it just goes on. He says that it is very gentile and observational work. His staff works with the artist to coordinate the gallery.
The second half of the show will be with the guest Alex Harsley who has photographed a number of historic figures throughout the years. After being taught to be a farmer, he concluded that was not what he wanted to do and moved to New York. He first got into photography in 1957. He eventually got into photojournalism and got to see a different perspective on situations that others did not. Furthermore, he talks about how much he wanted to take photography in school because equipment was not very accessible for him. Most people only used cameras for capturing portraits and significant moments. His family had a camera but was not allowed to touch it. After he got his equipment he began capturing moments of his life, friends and environment.
Alex is asked about if racism was an issue while transitioning from North Carolina to New York in the 1950’s. He explains how there was some discrimination but the neighborhood he grew up in was a melting pot and nobody was racist. Alex first started the 4th Street Photo Gallery after observing what was occurring in Far Rockaway New York. He took some documentary shots which contributed to opening the gallery in 1974. Next, Alex confesses how it is the diversity and ability to dream of the East Village citizens that motivates him to continue doing work in that area.
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:39.630 Jeff Goodman: Hello everyone, welcome to our listeners in the big apple from across the US and around the world i'm Jeff Goodman, and this is rediscovering New York.
00:00:40.410 --> 00:00:45.240 Jeff Goodman: professionally i'm a real estate broker with brown hair Stevens, but our show is not about real estate.
00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:51.060 Jeff Goodman: rediscovering New York is a weekly program celebrating new york's history texture and vine.
00:00:51.690 --> 00:01:00.120 Jeff Goodman: And we do it through interviews with historians local business owners nonprofit organizations preservationists artists and the occasional elected official.
00:01:01.080 --> 00:01:09.420 Jeff Goodman: On some shows you know we bring an individual New York neighborhood to life we explore its history and its current energy what makes that particular New York neighborhood special.
00:01:10.620 --> 00:01:17.910 Jeff Goodman: On some shows like tonight we celebrate an interesting and vital color of the city and maybe its history that's not focused on one particular neighborhood.
00:01:18.510 --> 00:01:25.890 Jeff Goodman: On prior episodes you've heard us covered topics as diverse and eliminate he has presidents who came from New York who lived here at some point in their lives.
00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:34.770 Jeff Goodman: we've looked at the history of women activists in the women's suffrage we've been we've looked at the history of different immigrant communities, including people who were brought here in slaved.
00:01:35.460 --> 00:01:42.930 Jeff Goodman: we've looked at the history of the city's LGBT community in the gay rights movement we've explored bicycles and cycling they've been here for more than 200 years.
00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:47.970 Jeff Goodman: we've looked at the history of pumpkin opera those are separate shows, by the way, by the way.
00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:58.350 Jeff Goodman: we've looked at our library systems we actually have three in this incredible city that we're in we visited the subway public art visitor our greatest train stations and even some of our bridges.
00:01:59.190 --> 00:02:07.980 Jeff Goodman: After the broadcast each show is available on podcast you can hear us on apple spotify Amazon podcasts stitcher Google podcast and other services.
00:02:08.490 --> 00:02:15.450 Jeff Goodman: Today is one of the special shows where we're not going to journey to enable it but we're going to look at something in New York that's particular to the city, but a very.
00:02:15.930 --> 00:02:32.400 Jeff Goodman: Something is vital to the color and vibe of our city and i'm calling this episode number 113 photography New York style, we have two great photographers with with us and we're going to look at photography through the eyes of two different kinds of.
00:02:33.720 --> 00:02:47.520 Jeff Goodman: Institutions one is with an institution that is well established with the photographer who runs programs, and my second guest will be a photographer who has his own gallery but I wouldn't say as quite as an institutional as the organization with the first guest.
00:02:48.780 --> 00:02:57.270 Jeff Goodman: My first guest is David captaining David is a curator writer and managing director of programs at the International Center photography here in New York.
00:02:58.140 --> 00:03:07.290 Jeff Goodman: David his work worldwide with institutions, including moment here in New York, the tape that's in London, the sounds of the pump you do that's in Paris, the state museum, which is an Amsterdam.
00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:12.090 Jeff Goodman: The photographers gallery in London, the national portrait gallery in London and many others.
00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:23.100 Jeff Goodman: David is an author has many books include on photographs that's, the most recent it was published in 2020 another is so presence so invisible conversations on photography.
00:03:23.700 --> 00:03:31.830 Jeff Goodman: A handful of just the open road photography and the American road trip photography and cinema and art and photography just to name a few.
00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:41.940 Jeff Goodman: David has written hundreds of essays for monographs and museums, David has a PhD for is writing he's received the international Center photography infinity award.
00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:54.840 Jeff Goodman: The crash crash book award the Alice award a GA photo price I hope i'm pronouncing that right my Germans little rusty and the Royal photographic society word from the United Kingdom, David company, welcome to rediscovering New York.
00:03:55.140 --> 00:04:09.270 David Campany: hi Jeff great to be here by is a funny and they they sound so impressive just inside one to scale like a bunch of curiosities easy hasn't been when you really talk like that it just sounds like another person anyway.
00:04:09.450 --> 00:04:18.660 Jeff Goodman: Oh no it's you're quite accomplished, in fact, sometimes I surprised myself I speak at conferences, sometimes when people read my bio i'm just i'm just an estate agent is like really i've done all that stuff it's.
00:04:19.110 --> 00:04:20.310 Jeff Goodman: hard to believe, sometimes.
00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:22.110 David Campany: He would plan on via.
00:04:23.700 --> 00:04:25.110 David Campany: People sound so remote.
00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:29.490 Jeff Goodman: Well you're a little remote because you're broadcasting from London.
00:04:30.780 --> 00:04:31.260 David Campany: Yes.
00:04:31.530 --> 00:04:35.790 Jeff Goodman: And i'm going to guess from your actions that you're from the United Kingdom originally what part of the UK you're from.
00:04:36.300 --> 00:04:51.030 David Campany: i'm from just outside of London sex so that's where the Thames river that runs through the city meets we lived in London, for a long, long time and then move to New York in what turned out to be a week before coven to join ICP.
00:04:51.690 --> 00:04:56.070 Jeff Goodman: wow well when did you first become interested in photography David.
00:04:57.570 --> 00:04:58.980 David Campany: I think that was actually on a.
00:05:00.840 --> 00:05:11.310 David Campany: Family vacation to Disney world Miami and I insisted, I was to take the family photographs, so it would have been about 10 or 11.
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:17.760 David Campany: and towards the end of the vacation I actually lost the camera and all of the film.
00:05:19.170 --> 00:05:24.750 David Campany: And I remember my mother declaring that it was as if we hadn't taken the vacation at all and I thought.
00:05:26.280 --> 00:05:37.410 David Campany: wow photography excuse me photography is powerful so even the absence of pictures, who is powerful maybe more powerful than any any photographs, I actually took on that trip.
00:05:37.830 --> 00:05:46.890 David Campany: But that made me that made me take it seriously, but I then fell in love with cinema and from cinema cinema I fell in love with film stills.
00:05:47.940 --> 00:06:07.290 David Campany: And then kind of backed into photography that way and it's never left me that that that fascination with what they are and how they communicate and you know they're always partly documents but they're partly artworks they're kind of enigmatic fragments of things.
00:06:08.700 --> 00:06:09.360 David Campany: fascinating.
00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:11.880 Jeff Goodman: And you also teach photography.
00:06:13.110 --> 00:06:30.270 David Campany: yeah I taught from quite a young age and actually excuse me, and that was actually part of the attraction for joining ICP because over the years i've developed a background as a educator but also as a curator of exhibitions and a writer publisher.
00:06:31.710 --> 00:06:35.490 David Campany: And ICP has all of those things with under its umbrella.
00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:46.590 David Campany: So my role is within the gallery and gallery programming, but also the public talks and I have excuse me, I have a role in the school as well.
00:06:47.820 --> 00:06:49.800 David Campany: So it was a perfect fit for me.
00:06:51.360 --> 00:07:00.540 Jeff Goodman: And how old were you when you first came to New York David and you said you went to adjust the as a 10 year old What was your first trip to to this amazing city living that.
00:07:00.840 --> 00:07:04.110 David Campany: I first came in 1999 I was.
00:07:05.130 --> 00:07:22.950 David Campany: I was an undergrad and I actually taught just in Massachusetts and talk photography in a summer camp and after the camp, I decided I would spend a few weeks turned into a month or so in the city of New York.
00:07:24.750 --> 00:07:29.880 David Campany: And just photographed every day, just to explore the city on foot.
00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:43.950 David Campany: took endless pictures I knew, its history in photography you know I mean everybody in in the world, even if they're not interested in photography now knows pictures of New York knows how much of that kind of image.
00:07:44.940 --> 00:07:49.860 David Campany: city, it is so it takes a while I think for first visitors to kind of overcome.
00:07:50.970 --> 00:08:01.200 David Campany: The idea that it's kind of preceded by its image and it actually puts a lot of photog serious photographers off even trying to make images of New York because.
00:08:01.950 --> 00:08:10.980 David Campany: There are so many of them and their standards are set so high, and you know some of the best pictures ever made were made in New York, particularly within the history of street.
00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:13.380 David Campany: street photography.
00:08:15.630 --> 00:08:17.670 David Campany: But yeah I got used to it, I got used to it.
00:08:18.780 --> 00:08:24.330 Jeff Goodman: Well, unlike our second guest, who spent his formative years in New York and that.
00:08:25.410 --> 00:08:34.380 Jeff Goodman: might have shaped his photography which will ask him about this segment you didn't, why do you find New York is such an amazing place with.
00:08:34.470 --> 00:08:36.090 Jeff Goodman: photography but as someone who.
00:08:36.390 --> 00:08:38.730 Jeff Goodman: started shooting here and living here as an adult.
00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:41.310 David Campany: it's unpredictable.
00:08:42.630 --> 00:08:44.280 David Campany: it's very concentrated.
00:08:46.560 --> 00:08:52.020 David Campany: The light is fantastic and the people are amazing, and I think if you put all of those things together.
00:08:53.400 --> 00:09:08.490 David Campany: That kind of churn and that kind of energy just produces you know occasions for picture, making and that that might be within documentary it might be within architectural photography or fashion photography.
00:09:11.550 --> 00:09:16.650 David Campany: And so there's something kind of innately theatrical about New York.
00:09:18.300 --> 00:09:27.210 David Campany: It feels like a stage set for its own existence somehow it's a fairly image conscious place in in that sense.
00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:30.540 David Campany: and
00:09:31.620 --> 00:09:35.970 David Campany: it's it's it's almost too tempting to take pictures, in a way.
00:09:38.760 --> 00:09:45.210 David Campany: And I mean I often wonder just how many pictures of being taken every every minute in in the city.
00:09:46.530 --> 00:09:56.640 David Campany: And to try to compare that to other cities, I knew New York must be one of the one of the highest one of the most intense key photographed of places I would I would have thought.
00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:00.840 David Campany: it's also so varied you know i'm from London and you can.
00:10:01.710 --> 00:10:11.880 David Campany: You can walk half a mile and you're in a neighborhood of a completely different character and that's the same in New York, that I think that's quite unusual to have in a cities of that.
00:10:12.660 --> 00:10:24.300 David Campany: scope and that kind of intensity and density, but also that that variety that changes, you know you can walk two blocks in New York, can you feel like you're in a completely different city.
00:10:25.770 --> 00:10:30.270 Jeff Goodman: that's one of the reasons I do the program about because because of the neighborhoods of New York.
00:10:30.630 --> 00:10:34.320 Jeff Goodman: You know one thing I will say about London know this is one of the things I love about it, and having lived there.
00:10:34.830 --> 00:10:46.050 Jeff Goodman: In some form by formative years was you know the mile after mile of incredible Georgia and architecture and just have a whole classical you go from neighborhood to neighborhood and it's just really, really beautiful.
00:10:47.280 --> 00:10:51.090 Jeff Goodman: let's talk about the international Center of photography when did it start.
00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:56.010 David Campany: started in 1974 so we're actually approaching our 50th anniversary.
00:10:57.570 --> 00:11:04.740 David Campany: And it comes about at a very interesting time and a lot of the institutions of photography that are now really on the map.
00:11:06.510 --> 00:11:11.220 David Campany: came into being around that time late 60s early 70s and.
00:11:12.630 --> 00:11:16.140 Jeff Goodman: there's also Is this also around the world, and not just in the states where.
00:11:16.530 --> 00:11:25.260 David Campany: Yes, and I think it, I mean there were a number of factors it's partly the art world getting interested in photography, but it was also, I think, to do with.
00:11:26.910 --> 00:11:34.740 David Campany: A kind of slight eclipse of photography I mean for much of the 20th century photography was really the Center of culture.
00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:45.330 David Campany: But clearly TV and video we're on the rise, and you have you know, perhaps the defining a little illustrated magazine.
00:11:49.350 --> 00:11:53.100 David Campany: Life magazine, which was founded in 1936.
00:11:54.120 --> 00:12:05.220 David Campany: Actually fold in 1972 just can't sustain itself any longer, but there's still an enormous energy and interest in photography and it's it's sort of shift slightly towards.
00:12:06.510 --> 00:12:19.230 David Campany: museum culture and gallery culture so ICP set up in 1974 with a mission to be the champion of socially concerned photography.
00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:36.420 David Campany: So it has its roots in a kind of documentary photojournalistic rapport taj practice but it's really interested in photography that's that perhaps can change the world or adjust people's thinking about the world somehow.
00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:43.050 David Campany: And in the course of the last nearly five decades there's been 800 plus exhibitions.
00:12:44.550 --> 00:12:51.210 David Campany: And the interesting thing about photography institutions is you know they're they're cherished by those who, like photography.
00:12:53.130 --> 00:13:09.330 David Campany: And that means you have an audience this very local so for a long part of its history ICP was in midtown and it's now moved to the lower East side, so a big part of our project is establishing a connection very much with the area.
00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:12.990 Jeff Goodman: Was it first a New York based institution David.
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:25.860 David Campany: yeah it was always a New York based institution set up by geico cornell Kappa brother photographer himself, but also the brother of the Kappa very famous for to journalist and.
00:13:28.710 --> 00:13:39.360 David Campany: established itself as a kind of beacon as as a kind of place for debate for seeing you know the most kind of interesting and urgent photography.
00:13:42.030 --> 00:13:50.010 David Campany: and also a cultural institution that's dedicated to photography has to has to stay on its toes has to has to be reactive to the culture.
00:13:51.390 --> 00:13:52.260 David Campany: around it.
00:13:53.670 --> 00:14:00.420 David Campany: And so, interestingly, when we moved to the lower East side we opened in January of last year, but by March we closed.
00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:08.430 David Campany: As most cultural institutions did with the coming of the pandemic So what does it, what do you do if you're closed well are.
00:14:08.910 --> 00:14:18.870 David Campany: renowned school of photography switched online and our public program of debates and discussions switched online, but what do you do with the gallery, can a gallery even exist.
00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:33.030 David Campany: Online well, I noticed that most museums we're putting on virtual tours of the shows that they had been forced to close, but that didn't seem quite right for us, I thought we should be connecting with our audience and thinking about what's really going on.
00:14:33.090 --> 00:14:45.600 David Campany: In the world right, so we actually launched a hashtag social media hashtag I P concerned just asking our audience to take and upload images of whatever was going on in their lives.
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:52.920 David Campany: like wildfire I mean currently there are 60 65,000 images.
00:14:53.790 --> 00:15:10.380 David Campany: But in the course of the pandemic we actually decided to make an make an exhibition in the space out of these images, so a whole bunch of US staff at ICP selected pictures we reached out to photographers ended up putting on a show of 820 images.
00:15:11.730 --> 00:15:22.290 David Campany: While the pandemic was was still unfolding and we presented the images criminal chronologically and the gallery so as you walk around you what rounds through the month of.
00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:38.670 David Campany: March, April May, June, July August September actually finished around November 3 that the date of the election, so that that's a good indication of us, you know being very much responsive to the times that we're in but we show historical shows.
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.590 David Campany: And we also have a very international sense of what we do.
00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:55.740 David Campany: So the ICP concern show had had images from 70 different countries around the world, people look to us to be picking up on what's going on, you know different continents.
00:15:56.640 --> 00:16:06.930 David Campany: And at the same time, we have a commitment to the neighborhood that we're in so it's it's always been a fine balance and you find this in photography institutions all around the world that they.
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:16.080 David Campany: They have a kind of following that's international, but they are also quite rooted in places where there were their buildings all.
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:24.210 Jeff Goodman: Right we're gonna take a short break and when we come back David we're going to continue our conversation i'm listeners will be back in a moment.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:31.710 Jeff Goodman: we're back to rediscovering New York and our episode photography New York style well as much as you possibly can talk about photography and you know within an hour's time which we really can't but we're going to give it our best shot.
00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:38.550 Jeff Goodman: My first guest is David campaigning David is the Managing Director of programs at the International Center of photography.
00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:46.440 Jeff Goodman: Not only here in New York City, but on the lower East side and on Essex street actually it's not far away from the gallery of our second guest but we'll get to that in a couple of minutes.
00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:54.060 Jeff Goodman: David you've worked with many institutions around the world, including galleries and museums museums in New York and Paris.
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:57.810 Jeff Goodman: London Amsterdam in other cities um.
00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:03.540 Jeff Goodman: What attracted you to ICP why why here and why now.
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:17.010 David Campany: it's a it's a very good fit for me, I mean it has absolutely glorious galleries in his new space, perhaps the best spaces dedicated to photography and in the city.
00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:23.580 David Campany: But also the new building has brought the ICP school under the same roof.
00:20:24.990 --> 00:20:38.040 David Campany: And that's very unusual to have a place that's dedicated to exhibiting photography and also educating and that's been my background so it's just a lovely role perfect role for me.
00:20:39.630 --> 00:20:55.800 David Campany: And I think there's a very interesting way of experiencing photographs on in exhibition spaces, which now feels very different to how most people experienced them, which is, which is on screens, perhaps not even in printed matter so much anymore.
00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:07.230 David Campany: So i'm really interested in making exhibitions that could only be exhibitions you know, using the architecture of the space and the way an exhibition unfolds, as you walk around it.
00:21:08.790 --> 00:21:13.710 David Campany: To really kind of heighten the attention to the image and really fold people into it.
00:21:15.600 --> 00:21:26.430 David Campany: And it's also nice having curated, as you say, in a kind of freelance way all over the world, often doing no more than one show with one museum.
00:21:27.570 --> 00:21:39.390 David Campany: I wanted to put down roots, so that you could I could get used to working in one space make make an exhibition and then maybe in the next cycle of exhibitions you completely reinvent the space and use it in different ways.
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:50.100 David Campany: it's also a really interesting time just in the way that photographers are thinking about presenting their work, you know it's not like painting, you know it when you paint a painting.
00:21:51.390 --> 00:22:04.710 David Campany: it's the size that it is when you paint it when when you take a photograph it it almost has no scale so photographers are interested in really exploring the size of prints or maybe using projection or screens and not just printing them.
00:22:06.030 --> 00:22:14.280 David Campany: So just in terms of making an installation so many things are possible with photography, perhaps more than than any other medium.
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:27.990 David Campany: And that's always exciting that's always exciting just to kind of keep pace with the way image makers think thinking about how they want to present their work so i'm the kind of curated that.
00:22:29.550 --> 00:22:42.660 David Campany: takes his lead from what artists and photographers really want to do so it's a very collaborative institution, so if an artist shows with us they're very involved with the whole with the whole process of how the work is presented yeah.
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:52.110 Jeff Goodman: let's talk about location, I remember the international Center of photography being right on sixth avenue the the the the street level facade was incredibly.
00:22:53.730 --> 00:23:08.940 Jeff Goodman: Present you know when it was always there and all of a sudden it wasn't how did ICP find its new home and and and why, in the lower East side, of all places it's a very different environment from you know midtown in the business district to to the lower side.
00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:17.610 David Campany: It is a different environment, but you know how it is in New York, you know the cultural energy shifts around all the time, you know, for a long for a long while it was Chelsea.
00:23:19.410 --> 00:23:30.360 David Campany: And I mean it's partly to do with real estate but it's but it's also it's also to do with what feels kind of culturally energetic so we're right on the corner of Essex and glancy.
00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:39.120 David Campany: and, interestingly ICP has the has the archive of weegee you know the very famous you know New York photographer.
00:23:40.650 --> 00:23:52.530 David Campany: And when we opened, we had will be showing a substantial number of his images from the collection taken in in the lower East side it's always been an interesting area for artists and photographers.
00:23:54.360 --> 00:23:55.290 David Campany: and
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:08.490 David Campany: I think if you if you set up an institution in in a particular place, particularly in New York, you have a chance to.
00:24:09.330 --> 00:24:25.530 David Campany: be a part of a Community while shifting the gravity of the city, the cultural gravity of the city, a little bit so it's a brave move to go from midtown to to the lower East side, but you know ICP has a following it has it has a kind of presence.
00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:35.040 David Campany: And it also just architecturally it was it was a chance to build this year absolutely state of the art building, you know with the most beautiful library and.
00:24:35.490 --> 00:24:51.960 David Campany: sweeter facilities for the school and the galleries so it's an incredible place to be in once you step into the once you step in through the glass doors, you find your in this kind of citadel for photography so great feeling I feel it every time I step in the building.
00:24:53.580 --> 00:24:59.700 Jeff Goodman: i'm probably less than an amateur photographer i'm an amateur radio host but less than an amateur photographer i'm looking forward to visiting the.
00:25:00.210 --> 00:25:09.660 Jeff Goodman: ICP when I can David, we have a couple of minutes left i'd like to talk about the history of ICP is programming How has it changed over the years, has it changed over the years.
00:25:10.110 --> 00:25:12.540 David Campany: Yes, he has and.
00:25:12.630 --> 00:25:14.250 David Campany: As I said before, it's always.
00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:20.520 David Campany: been committed to socially concerned photography but what counts is that is actually pretty broad.
00:25:22.230 --> 00:25:39.540 David Campany: So that might be documentary and photojournalism or it might be work that's quite autobiographical in nature, or it might be quite philosophical you know there's been a number of shows over the years really asking you know what a what a photograph is you know in our.
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:51.150 David Campany: Can the definition of photography being separated from let's say painting or sculpture or performance or writing even.
00:25:52.350 --> 00:25:53.760 David Campany: And it's always had.
00:25:54.870 --> 00:25:56.160 David Campany: Ambitious programming.
00:25:58.260 --> 00:26:09.090 David Campany: But mindful of what you just mentioned, actually, which is the amateur and the interesting thing about photography is that everyone has a strong relationship to it it's never alienating.
00:26:10.770 --> 00:26:20.910 David Campany: everyone feels they have a stake in photography and so photography institution has to be quite mindful of that everyone that steps through the door has a really strong opinion about it.
00:26:22.260 --> 00:26:38.520 David Campany: And that's great because you're already engaging with something you're already engaging with strong feelings strongly experiences strong opinions I don't think you could say the same sculpture painting let's say which which feel quite remote people, especially when they're young.
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:46.440 David Campany: So when our young audience comes through the doors is it's funny photography it may not be photography quite as they know it.
00:26:48.570 --> 00:26:58.140 David Campany: But it's definitely photography and so there's always a, the door is always open in that sense it's not a it's not a medium that that puts off a viewer.
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:04.470 David Campany: And that's always been very consistent in the way I see peace thought about it it's it's.
00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:14.280 David Campany: It might be a high art but it's also a kind of common practice, it may, it may be done by specialists, but it's also done by everybody.
00:27:15.990 --> 00:27:21.810 David Campany: it's not it's not a kind of remote marginal practice as part of people's everyday lives.
00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:27.570 David Campany: And that does make it quite special makes it quite quite unusual, I think.
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:33.450 David Campany: And, but it's also a challenge you know, because if you're if you're trying to put on an exhibition.
00:27:35.310 --> 00:27:43.230 David Campany: you're catering to an audience that's already already got quite strong stake in photography because everybody because everybody has in a way.
00:27:44.340 --> 00:27:45.510 David Campany: That keeps me on my toes.
00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:58.500 Jeff Goodman: David, we have a minute left what kinds of programming is ice going to have over the summer that you would encourage our listeners to check out either online to find out more about are actually to visit.
00:27:59.580 --> 00:28:00.180 Jeff Goodman: The premises.
00:28:00.390 --> 00:28:10.080 David Campany: How will the show that we have on at the moment is completely glorious it runs through to middle of August it's called but still, it turns.
00:28:11.010 --> 00:28:22.410 David Campany: Recent photography from the world but still, it turns is actually the phrase that Galileo used when he was forced to recant his observation about the circulation of planets in the heavens.
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:28.050 David Campany: But the show takes that as an idea that life goes on.
00:28:29.070 --> 00:28:45.750 David Campany: It just carries on and it's a show of nine photographers who photograph everyday life in the United States sometimes they photographing communities that they really know sometimes they've arrived from elsewhere, and they are encountering getting to know the world.
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.760 David Campany: it's very gentle work it's all very observational work.
00:28:52.110 --> 00:29:04.200 David Campany: And we've worked with the artists to really shape it into a number of almost solo project exhibition so as you move around the space you're really entering into the world of an image maker.
00:29:05.040 --> 00:29:24.450 David Campany: And the Community or the place that they're photographing and then you're stepping out and stepping into another one, and then another one and we mix in video and projected image, because often photographers are kind of blurring out from the still image in into the moving image.
00:29:25.890 --> 00:29:33.510 David Campany: And it's a that's have been a very strong strand of photography in the US for 2020 or so years.
00:29:34.110 --> 00:29:46.980 David Campany: Although it's not shown so much bye bye museums so everyone's excited about the show I love watching people come into the space and just absorbing themselves in it.
00:29:47.790 --> 00:29:59.250 David Campany: You people stay for an hour an hour and a half and just you know really immerse themselves in these in these visions is great to see and, as I said that once that runs right the way through the summer.
00:29:59.790 --> 00:30:01.740 David Campany: Great robust and.
00:30:01.770 --> 00:30:05.040 Jeff Goodman: what's the Web address that people can find out more about ICP.
00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:08.160 David Campany: yeah we do is icp.org.
00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:09.450 Jeff Goodman: So both.
00:30:09.870 --> 00:30:18.090 David Campany: of our physical addresses 79 Essex street and we're open Thursdays two Sundays at the moment 11 to seven.
00:30:19.050 --> 00:30:29.550 Jeff Goodman: All right, well, David company curator writer and managing director of programs at the International Center of photography in New York and the lower East side on Essex street a couple of blocks, from where I used to live.
00:30:29.910 --> 00:30:31.440 Jeff Goodman: Thanks so much for being our guest today.
00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:32.970 David Campany: i'm great Thank you.
00:30:33.870 --> 00:30:41.490 Jeff Goodman: we're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to spend some time with our second guest, who also has a gallery in the neighborhood.
00:30:41.850 --> 00:30:49.140 Jeff Goodman: gallery a little bit different and you someone who's been shooting photographs in New York for more than 60 years we'll be back in a moment.
00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:44.070 Jeff Goodman: we're back support for rediscovering New York comes from our sponsors Christopher Pappas mortgage specialist to TD bank.
00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:58.860 Jeff Goodman: To find out how Chris can help you with all your residential home mortgage needs and tailor a mortgage that's right for you please call Chris at 203-512-3918 and support also comes from the law offices of Thomas sciatica.
00:33:59.190 --> 00:34:01.800 Jeff Goodman: Focusing on wills estate planning probate.
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:15.630 Jeff Goodman: and inheritance litigation Tom and staff can be reached at 212-495-0317 you can like the show on Facebook and you can follow me on instagram and Twitter my handle is on all three are Jeff Goodman nyc.
00:34:16.290 --> 00:34:22.770 Jeff Goodman: If you have comments or questions about the show, or if you'd like to get on our mailing list, please email me Jeff at rediscovering New York that nyc.
00:34:23.640 --> 00:34:28.500 Jeff Goodman: One of the note before we get to our second guest, even though rediscovering New York is not a show about real estate.
00:34:28.950 --> 00:34:35.250 Jeff Goodman: When i'm not on the air i'm indeed a real estate agent or amazing city or help my clients buy sell lease and rent property.
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:48.180 Jeff Goodman: If you or someone you care about is considering a move into out of a within New York I would love to help you with all those real estate needs, you can reach me and my team it's 646-306-4761.
00:34:49.410 --> 00:34:58.410 Jeff Goodman: Our second guest is photographer Alex horsley Alex has curated the fourth street photo gallery in the minority photographers nonprofits since the early 1970s.
00:34:59.310 --> 00:35:10.980 Jeff Goodman: His own reported style of photography started in 1958 as the first black photographer for the New York district attorney since that time, he has continued to capture the true intimate moments and personality of New York City.
00:35:12.030 --> 00:35:20.640 Jeff Goodman: His collection contains the historical than in lineage of musicians politicians street folk landscapes and neighbors from the 1950s, to the present day.
00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:30.930 Jeff Goodman: Alex is photograph john call screener Ray Charles at the Apollo Sarah Vaughan at birdland Muhammad Ali draw Michel basquiat and shirley chisholm his nomination for President.
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:39.360 Jeff Goodman: He photographed activists Harry belafonte curtis got King Paul robeson jr and Angela Davis when they met for the first time in a benefit in 1972.
00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:44.850 Jeff Goodman: Is documentary medium consists of film digital photography and digital sound and video.
00:35:45.750 --> 00:35:59.520 Jeff Goodman: Perhaps another way to describe it is a as a quintessential New York photographer Alex hartley i'm sorry yes Alex horsley a hearty welcome to rediscovering New York, I always say hardy and I got confused a little welcome Alex.
00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.500 Alex Harsley: Thank you.
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:08.340 Jeff Goodman: Alex you would want to North Carolina and when did you move to New York and what had you move to the city.
00:36:09.540 --> 00:36:18.030 Alex Harsley: I will brought up to be a form of back in 1940 when I became three years of age.
00:36:19.080 --> 00:36:24.420 Alex Harsley: Until that time period was basically taught how to be a master pharma.
00:36:25.890 --> 00:36:36.570 Alex Harsley: But in 1948 I decided I didn't want to be a farmer anymore, I wanted to basically leave all of that, and can I get into understanding what was going on in the rest of the world.
00:36:38.070 --> 00:36:42.090 Alex Harsley: So, at that point, I emigrated to New York City in 1948.
00:36:43.380 --> 00:36:52.770 Alex Harsley: And that was the beginning of my I would say exploration in this unusual wonderful over oversized reality.
00:36:53.850 --> 00:36:58.440 Alex Harsley: And it came to me that the lights are on 24 hours a day, so.
00:36:59.460 --> 00:37:09.660 Alex Harsley: Now I could go anyplace I want to it anytime good night and basically take a better look at what New York City is all about on a 24 hour schedule.
00:37:10.530 --> 00:37:11.820 Jeff Goodman: not sure having.
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:18.240 Jeff Goodman: Having 24 hour lights is great for photography always always have something to shoot.
00:37:19.650 --> 00:37:23.670 Jeff Goodman: How old were you when you first started to shoot photography regularly Alex.
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:32.910 Alex Harsley: I got into photography I would say about 1957 58 and basically came all together and 59.
00:37:34.170 --> 00:37:42.870 Alex Harsley: So that was my really you know early exploration into understanding the whole nature of the photographic process.
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:52.200 Alex Harsley: Because essentially coming from the south and trying to kind of educate and I got was based in physics, that I had no knowledge of.
00:37:52.740 --> 00:38:02.940 Alex Harsley: So when they came to New York I get a better understanding of the whole idea of physics, so now, I was able to explore the reality of physics utilize the photography.
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:12.720 Alex Harsley: So I need subjects, so the subject became a story, in other words, I would look at things that had no knowledge Joe and photograph it.
00:38:13.530 --> 00:38:30.720 Alex Harsley: So that's how he got into understand the whole nature save life as it kind of like evolved out of New York City, especially in a different type of architectural and different type of environments here in New York City so as a kid my favorite thing was just get on the subway.
00:38:32.100 --> 00:38:36.600 Alex Harsley: Take a long ride come up and then find my way back home by walking.
00:38:37.830 --> 00:38:46.620 Alex Harsley: Along the way I was still these interesting things so Neil became this very mosaic reality that I got used to so now, when I got it would.
00:38:47.040 --> 00:38:58.200 Alex Harsley: Be I would be able to go back to those spaces and now I could see that, with the photography taking pictures of those things and then coming back and storing that information away so that's.
00:38:58.410 --> 00:39:09.930 Alex Harsley: begin to eliminate this this collection of images so, then I got into photojournalism and that gave me a free pass and TV sacred reality.
00:39:11.100 --> 00:39:21.750 Alex Harsley: So now, I found myself behind the scenes and the secret realities that very few people got a chance to explore so that became another part of my documentation.
00:39:23.040 --> 00:39:26.970 Jeff Goodman: And you get your position with the district attorney as as photographer.
00:39:30.690 --> 00:39:31.590 Alex Harsley: When I was.
00:39:32.730 --> 00:39:36.060 Alex Harsley: Born I was born, not out of.
00:39:37.110 --> 00:39:38.820 Alex Harsley: overt say plan.
00:39:40.170 --> 00:39:41.970 Alex Harsley: I came out of circumstances.
00:39:43.020 --> 00:39:50.700 Alex Harsley: So I always worked in that area of circumstances when something comes up in front of me I gotta be able to deal with it.
00:39:51.540 --> 00:40:02.610 Alex Harsley: So when photography came into existence my mind, it was basically as a child in the south, and they would have this box Cameron look down into you can see another image.
00:40:03.210 --> 00:40:13.110 Alex Harsley: That was my first introduction to photography that other reality that exists in that ground, glass and ever since then i've been curious as to how that actually work.
00:40:13.740 --> 00:40:25.470 Alex Harsley: and early on a mother took me in my other brothers and sisters to photo studio to have before they have taken the bus, I must have been about seven years old, at that point.
00:40:26.160 --> 00:40:33.750 Alex Harsley: And I was curious as to what happened when this guy went inside the dog and he did something inside this box and came out with a picture.
00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:36.570 Alex Harsley: Nice, so I did do that.
00:40:37.620 --> 00:40:49.800 Alex Harsley: And that was the early examples of me on you know, say, well, that eventually I get around that so in 1958 they had photography classes in school, I had no really.
00:40:50.340 --> 00:41:01.980 Alex Harsley: interested in actually you know being applauded for photography club, because this is always seen photography as somewhat of a like a dividing area between cultures and have and have not.
00:41:03.030 --> 00:41:11.820 Alex Harsley: And if you don't if he couldn't afford photography it meant, first of all, you had no real necessity you actually get into doing it.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:26.700 Alex Harsley: The other area was people just get account to photograph the vacation so the family trips, or what have you I had no real connection to any of that because my family already had a box gym and I wasn't allowed to touch.
00:41:30.450 --> 00:41:34.110 Alex Harsley: That was the pressures object don't get don't text don't drop it.
00:41:35.670 --> 00:41:40.890 Jeff Goodman: I remember when I was when I was young, my dad had a polaroid and also a Kodak.
00:41:42.060 --> 00:41:53.700 Jeff Goodman: Eight millimeter camera I you know I couldn't touch him either you know, it was a first I got to use the polaroid and then it was, I think I was maybe 13 when he let me use the use the Kodak eight millimeter camera.
00:41:54.270 --> 00:42:01.410 Alex Harsley: So I by circumstances I used to come down to watch the St Paul little my bicycle bicycle, by the way.
00:42:02.370 --> 00:42:15.240 Alex Harsley: So I came down the park and somebody said, you want to buy a camera and i'm asked myself, would it be taught by camera so out of nowhere, I say yes and set up a rain to go and buy the camera.
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:21.390 Alex Harsley: Unless I got the camera it was it was like everything else that I had I had to understand how it works.
00:42:22.290 --> 00:42:29.940 Alex Harsley: So I began to take it apart and springs and things is popping all over the place, and I realized I had destroyed the camera.
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:39.240 Alex Harsley: So now, I have to go and buy me a real camera so that was my first first introduction to photography so now, I have to get a photographic book.
00:42:39.660 --> 00:42:50.310 Alex Harsley: All information that was in the book understand that go back to the store and ask the guy all these different things and got to develop my first roll of film in the bathroom.
00:42:52.020 --> 00:42:53.160 Jeff Goodman: With a red light, no data.
00:42:55.800 --> 00:43:05.460 Jeff Goodman: With we're going to take a break in a minute Alex, but I wanted to ask you, first what subjects, did you become interested in after shooting after your work for the district attorney.
00:43:06.270 --> 00:43:15.690 Alex Harsley: It was always about documenting my own personal life, my friends and other reality that's around obviously whatever was happening in the world at that time.
00:43:16.590 --> 00:43:27.900 Alex Harsley: And that became somewhat of a obviously official book that I began to put together about my life here in New York City and different things that I have encountered.
00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:44.790 Jeff Goodman: Alright we're going to take a short break and when we come back we're going to continue our conversation with Alex parsley lifelong new yorker and the founder of the fourth street photo gallery will be back in a moment.
00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:11.010 Jeff Goodman: we're back to rediscovering New York and our hundred 13th episode photography New York style my second guest on this show is Alex horsley Alex is the founder and curator.
00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:18.840 Jeff Goodman: Of the fourth street photo gallery on East for street nice village and also the minority photographers nonprofit boston's early 1970s.
00:46:19.350 --> 00:46:27.210 Jeff Goodman: Alex i'd like to ask you a personal question because i'm guessing that the answer to this helped to shape the artists that you became as a photographer.
00:46:27.870 --> 00:46:37.590 Jeff Goodman: Did you experience different kinds of racism here in New York, compared to what you grew up with in North Carolina and and how did that impact your work as a photographer.
00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:41.760 Alex Harsley: that's an interesting.
00:46:44.880 --> 00:47:07.320 Alex Harsley: area to talk about especially come from the south and a howdy discriminatory environment, but at the same time, really understanding how I felt and how I dealt with personally to me it wasn't an issue in terms of you know them having that and i'm having that drip except water fountain.
00:47:08.640 --> 00:47:22.350 Alex Harsley: Going into the movie house on the balcony accountant account like like that you know it gave it gave the coach of presence version promos and that that gave the culture.
00:47:23.580 --> 00:47:31.140 Alex Harsley: assistant proud in terms of growth, there was no kind of like thing in front of the growth part of the all of that.
00:47:31.560 --> 00:47:43.560 Alex Harsley: It was up to you to prove yourself, you can grow it becomes somebody in that kind of reality, so when I came to New York, it was almost like a diffuse type of discrimination.
00:47:44.520 --> 00:48:01.260 Alex Harsley: Once you got in something that was highly specialized that requires a certain amount of money, and so it amount of education, then all of a sudden, he began to realize that that area is have you know it's close to most black folks so that became to me.
00:48:02.700 --> 00:48:06.630 Alex Harsley: Not so much as an obstacle, but something to Beijing me to overcome.
00:48:08.310 --> 00:48:18.570 Alex Harsley: And the way I dealt with is like all my friends was different everything with one group and that group he communicated with each other.
00:48:19.170 --> 00:48:32.670 Alex Harsley: So when I came to New York City, I came into a very diverse neighborhood it was all black or Puerto Rican all that all that it was mixed, and we all get along together in fact We grew together.
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:43.260 Alex Harsley: So that was always my obvious a starting point in terms of how to deal with discrimination here in New York City, especially in the photograph area.
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:56.940 Alex Harsley: So in 1971 I got a chance to actually start my own educational institution dealing with that area of discrimination that was getting rid happening in New York, especially photography wise you.
00:48:57.810 --> 00:49:09.270 Alex Harsley: So you've only had to take a very now and look at what has happened in the arts and coach in New York City in terms of evil that is taking place over the past four years dealing with.
00:49:09.870 --> 00:49:21.690 Alex Harsley: The culture and the arts we've been managed by specific group of people who basically had no real interest in the undercurrents that was happening in the coach it at the time that it was happening.
00:49:22.290 --> 00:49:30.510 Alex Harsley: So I took a stance and I began to work with different artists who had all these different issues of getting into the system.
00:49:31.770 --> 00:49:38.850 Alex Harsley: And over the years i've been extremely successful in terms of number of people that I got over that barrier and to the system.
00:49:39.510 --> 00:49:51.300 Alex Harsley: To is currently shown showing at the Whitney now very few people know i'm i'm behind most of those artists who helped him overcome the stuff that they were dealing with it at the time of their early career.
00:49:52.080 --> 00:49:59.760 Alex Harsley: So now most of those artists, that I work with are extremely successful in the air that they chose to be especially photography.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:10.380 Alex Harsley: but very few people talk about that area of my success deal with minority photographers instead they prefer to focus on again the whole area of black and white.
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:22.770 Alex Harsley: So now it gets into I see I hear I said it's a language okay you got to speak the king's language in order to run the institution, but as far as the groundwork.
00:50:23.910 --> 00:50:46.920 Alex Harsley: of actually work in the whole area for a default graphic arts with all different people or different ideas that became forestry photo gallery and nobody is it had provided basically a platform for different artists to go, either from ICP or back into the ICP perfect, you know that okay.
00:50:47.910 --> 00:50:53.790 Alex Harsley: But that that's what you call you know i'm allowed assert them i'll say.
00:50:55.230 --> 00:51:00.300 Alex Harsley: Communication insurance people how they deal with me, as the person.
00:51:00.840 --> 00:51:07.860 Alex Harsley: They see me publicly and the terms what they want to see, they don't see my entire history of why i'm really all about in terms of.
00:51:08.220 --> 00:51:18.750 Alex Harsley: Bold idea of pulling this family of artists together from around the world, they came all around the world to get a platform year in order to go back home become somebody.
00:51:19.560 --> 00:51:20.100 Jeff Goodman: That.
00:51:20.340 --> 00:51:26.550 Alex Harsley: I provided here in this little small crack in the world, with no outside support, mind you.
00:51:27.540 --> 00:51:35.490 Jeff Goodman: wow well that actually is a great launching point to talk about the fourth street photo gallery most people who are going to listen to this will hear us on podcast.
00:51:35.910 --> 00:51:46.740 Jeff Goodman: A couple of well some will see us on Facebook live and Alex is broadcasting from the fourth street photo gallery and behind him our wall to wall photographs that he has taken Alex when did you start the gallery.
00:51:48.180 --> 00:52:05.010 Alex Harsley: The gallery came out of when I first started minority photographers I was working on a project deal with urban renewal, I spent pretty close to you and I have documenting what was going on out in the far rockaway place called offer New York.
00:52:06.210 --> 00:52:15.150 Alex Harsley: And once I pull all that, together, including tapes and interviews and all kind of visual impact images of what was happening out there, dealing with urban renewal.
00:52:16.200 --> 00:52:20.430 Alex Harsley: Somebody told me to take it up to cornell Kappa was also.
00:52:21.660 --> 00:52:26.790 Alex Harsley: A photographer who's working on a project dealing with the flower children as the fountain.
00:52:27.870 --> 00:52:33.300 Alex Harsley: So I took my project to him and he kind of like say we don't do that kind of stuff anymore.
00:52:35.100 --> 00:52:42.900 Alex Harsley: Why is there no we don't we don't do that anymore so then that's when I got a chance to start my own nonprofit organization.
00:52:43.650 --> 00:52:51.660 Alex Harsley: realizing that you know a lot of people go out there and do all these different projects and have no place to take them, especially dealing with controversial subjects.
00:52:52.050 --> 00:52:52.470 yeah.
00:52:53.850 --> 00:52:55.290 Jeff Goodman: When did you open the forestry gallery.
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:02.880 Alex Harsley: After I started my knowledge photography at 155 Essex street bind you okay.
00:53:03.930 --> 00:53:14.610 Alex Harsley: I began to have shows all over the city bars restaurants theaters you name it couldn't go to know place without see show that i've put up, I had to show.
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:18.270 Alex Harsley: Different bars, it can you match.
00:53:18.660 --> 00:53:21.510 Jeff Goodman: yeah I can imagine i've seen some something i've actually.
00:53:22.200 --> 00:53:25.200 Jeff Goodman: What are from bar set from from exhibitions and bars.
00:53:25.620 --> 00:53:33.480 Alex Harsley: Work became a little too controversial, so I realized I didn't want to innovate, that you know they personal space so, then I have to find a gallery.
00:53:34.350 --> 00:53:41.340 Alex Harsley: So I somebody told me that's the place on fourth street I came over here and they looked at me say yeah sure.
00:53:41.850 --> 00:53:49.080 Alex Harsley: So, then, I knew how the system works, I went down challenges that in about a month that guy finally relented and gave me the space up here.
00:53:49.860 --> 00:54:00.750 Alex Harsley: So that was the beginning forestry photo gallery that was 1973 so this place was like dust, I mean like the four inches of dust on the floor and hadn't been been.
00:54:01.710 --> 00:54:13.380 Alex Harsley: So I had to clean the place up get it all straightened out and by 1974 75 I was in business, then it began to the big the whole culture began to change down here.
00:54:14.580 --> 00:54:20.610 Alex Harsley: And then, as a change people looking at me well what's he doing there you know, like.
00:54:21.900 --> 00:54:28.800 Alex Harsley: I did get in there, so i'm the pioneer who basically hope, help open up the lower East side, excuse me.
00:54:29.070 --> 00:54:37.200 Jeff Goodman: Well, your gallery is quintessentially East village Alex we have a minute left time goes so fast, you want to ask you one question about.
00:54:37.620 --> 00:54:50.490 Jeff Goodman: When something in one of your collections you've done collections into the detail Ireland musicians black political leaders, but also low reciting the East village quickly, what is it about the East village that captured your creative intention.
00:54:51.570 --> 00:55:05.130 Alex Harsley: is very city basically and people will to dream and to grow out of that dream and get there, get their offsprings to move further up into up into the stratosphere of.
00:55:05.700 --> 00:55:19.260 Alex Harsley: Having and not so much you know saying, well, we live in property will live in this by a neighbor this become a very upper middle class neighborhood over that period of time, because the people able to keep roots in place and grow.
00:55:20.850 --> 00:55:25.200 Jeff Goodman: And I used to live in the east village and then, when I moved I moved up to Harlem and so.
00:55:25.830 --> 00:55:33.720 Jeff Goodman: Here I am right now Alex i'm sorry we're out of time Thank you so much for joining me on this on this program about photography and New York style.
00:55:34.170 --> 00:55:46.590 Jeff Goodman: Alex is the founder and curator at the fourth street photo gallery, you can find it on esports street between the bowery on second avenue, I visited several times recently, I highly recommend it thanks Alex.
00:55:47.610 --> 00:55:54.510 Jeff Goodman: If you have comments or questions about the show, or if you'd like to get on our mailing list, please email me Jeff at rediscovering New York dot nyc.
00:55:55.050 --> 00:56:02.130 Jeff Goodman: You can like us on Facebook that's rediscovering York with Jeff Goodman and also follow me on instagram and Twitter my handles are Jeff Goodman nyc.
00:56:02.610 --> 00:56:12.330 Jeff Goodman: Once again i'd like to thank our sponsors Chris Pappas mortgage banker TD bank and the law offices of time sciatica focusing on wills estate planning probate and inheritance litigation.
00:56:12.870 --> 00:56:19.770 Jeff Goodman: One more thing, before we sign off i'm Jeff Goodman a real estate agent have brown hair Stevens in New York and whether you're selling buying leasing or renting.
00:56:20.190 --> 00:56:34.650 Jeff Goodman: My team and I provide the best service and expertise in New York City real estate to help you, with your real estate needs, you can reach us at 646-306-4761 our producers Ralph story or our engineer is Sam leibowitz.
00:56:35.310 --> 00:56:40.560 Jeff Goodman: Our special consultant is David Griffin of landmark branding will actually be one of our hosts on the show next week.
00:56:41.160 --> 00:56:42.450 Jeff Goodman: Thanks for listening everyone.
00:56:42.540 --> 00:56:43.350 Jeff Goodman: will see you next time.