Stephen Holgate has vast experience in partnering with clients to create their L&D and Sales Enablement strategy, and lead teams delivering customized corporate training programs. Clients include global brands such as TikTok, Indeed, Justworks, First, Bank of America, AIG, Hearst, QVC, Ogilvy, and many small to medium companies. He's also passionate about helping charities, and has partnered with organizations including the SF Marin Food Bank, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, and the Doe Fund to help develop their leadership teams. We'll explore what it really takes to develop global partnerships.
Tune in for this insightful conversation at TalkRadio.nyc or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.
Host Graham Dobbin opens the episode by introducing the guest, Stephen Holgate. Stephen gives the audience background on his upbringing, groin up in Brisbane, Australia, before moving to England at 23, where he lived for 4 and a half years. After temporarily relocating to Sydney, he moved to New York City to work for his company. Stephen discusses his experiences moving around to different countries and the jobs that he had held throughout these years. He continues to speak about his early aspirations to create his own business, and how gaining skills in sales was important knowledge before starting. They discuss the mindset of working in the sales field, and what qualities would be necessary when working in the industry.
The second segment opens with Stephen speaking on his early experiences in selling, starting out in Australia where he had more experience. Working in the corporate training field, he discusses how different companies held varying perspectives of training. Additionally, methods of selling differentiate between countries as well. Stephen speaks on his unique experiences in selling, since his product is not tangible. In offering a service or intangible product, it completely comes down to the trust and relatability in the sales person. When ranking his positions, Stephen reveals that he does consider himself a trainer first, before a seller. Stephen speaks on his long lasting partnerships, leaving him in a comfortable position in his career. Additionally, Stephen does believe that his authenticity in selling gives him an advantage in the industry.
The third segment begins with Stephen describing the best deal he had ever made in his selling career. After he had moved to New York City for a few months, he had convinced the director of his sales office to let him become a seller as well as a trainer. One of the first deals that he had closed gave him the financial security to stay in New York City after a few months of financially struggling. After reflection, Stephen shares his philosophy that if he was not the right person to sell something to a company, he has learned to not have hard feelings against a company. Stephen speaks about his mental self image, which involves a somewhat laid-back and fun personality, it serves as a surprise when people in the executive team acknowledge his help in helping their companies grow in revenue and worth.
The final segment opens with a discussion on the current state of the salesforce. Stephen stresses the importance of forgiveness and understanding during the pandemic, sharing Indeed’s current initiative to help its clients. However, if sales aren’t being made, then the company may experience financial struggles, leaving a bigger responsibility for sales people to make more deals for their companies. Stephen also speaks on problem solving and the role it plays in the sales industry. There may be problems with companies that salespeople can help solve, or with a specific person that they may be working with. Stephen reveals how he built the trust in order for someone to trust him in being a problem solver, remaining vulnerable, honest, and being open to sending a potential customer in another way if their product may not be right for them. Stephen ends by sharing the key traits for salespeople including belief in yourself and in your product, being a problem-solver, and being authentic.
00:00:31.560 --> 00:00:42.330 Graham Dobbin: Welcome to the mind behind live here on talk radio dot nyc my name is Graham dobbin and every week we look at different aspects on the people say the business.
00:00:42.810 --> 00:00:50.790 Graham Dobbin: And we've discussed leadership over the last few weeks, we had a Ward emmy award winning and Nobel Peace Prize nominee Dr Sean depend on.
00:00:51.210 --> 00:00:59.160 Graham Dobbin: who spoke about forgiving leadership just a couple of weeks ago with a New York Times bestselling author make massive Donegal on the product connections.
00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:07.770 Graham Dobbin: And just a few weeks ago, Tony Dr Tony our Sandra who has been the author of 30 books about the influence of behavioral styles.
00:01:08.160 --> 00:01:15.270 Graham Dobbin: And attitude in business now they're all available on stitcher apple podcast spotify if you want to watch them, but this evening.
00:01:15.570 --> 00:01:20.700 Graham Dobbin: we're going to look at probably the most important part of business, not selling.
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:30.300 Graham Dobbin: let's face it, I don't know many businesses that would survive without good reliable developing customer base yet regularly as an area of people skills that's neglected.
00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:36.510 Graham Dobbin: And i'm delighted, I have managed to use my selling skills and persuaded this evening's guest to join us.
00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:48.750 Graham Dobbin: i've seen as guest is Stephen Holgate know Stephen is a global partnership manager and Dale Carnegie and also I kind of a master trainer and just listen to the kind of businesses, he works with.
00:01:49.350 --> 00:02:01.860 Graham Dobbin: His some of the people, he partnered with a company is like indeed tick tock AIG PVC it's a way dream, it has got, in fact, is what with clients and 40 cities in 15 countries.
00:02:02.490 --> 00:02:13.590 Graham Dobbin: And it develops in certified trainers as well, and also runs a team of those trainers, who are dedicated to helping to develop thousands of sales people a year in these global businesses.
00:02:14.070 --> 00:02:22.530 Graham Dobbin: And is also the system we need to know about armies are noisy in New York and he's come via London so there's probably a lot of depth that we need to discuss.
00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:29.190 Graham Dobbin: And when he's not doing this he's passionate about improv comedy participating and watching so testimonies comedy skills.
00:02:29.790 --> 00:02:33.780 Graham Dobbin: basketball and snowboarding but not going to do those and.
00:02:34.260 --> 00:02:41.850 Graham Dobbin: here's the thing there's a common theme, with a lot of our guests, and this is one of them something else he's passionate about is using his business skills to do some good.
00:02:42.150 --> 00:02:58.650 Graham Dobbin: And in this time is helping charities these partner with the likes of the San Francisco mountain food bank, the American foundation for Suicide Prevention and the door fund, we still need his help develop their leadership teams i'm Stephen great to see you.
00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:00.270 Stephen Holgate: Good to be here, thank you.
00:03:01.650 --> 00:03:04.830 Graham Dobbin: Know talk slowly this evening, because when you've got an accent I can.
00:03:04.830 --> 00:03:07.770 Stephen Holgate: Yes, it's my accent that's the real challenge but.
00:03:08.850 --> 00:03:24.690 Graham Dobbin: We want to get into what global sales means what it's like to develop people and everything that I think it's really important, just to begin with Brisbane London London Sydney and then on to New York just give us a bit of a background, how did you get here how did that happen.
00:03:25.290 --> 00:03:36.750 Stephen Holgate: um just to confuse nomad who didn't know where I wanted to be for a long time it's true I grew up in Brisbane Australia on the east coast north of Sydney was there until I was 23 years old and then.
00:03:37.410 --> 00:03:47.310 Stephen Holgate: I did what I guess a decent percentage of Australians do, which is a explore the motherland England actually my mother reads English my dad Australian.
00:03:47.940 --> 00:03:56.040 Stephen Holgate: So it just seemed like the the rite of passage or the cool thing to do, as a 23 year old kid my plan at that time was to be in London for six months.
00:03:56.580 --> 00:04:04.530 Stephen Holgate: I enjoyed it so much it turned into being four and a half years and that's actually where I started working with Dale Carnegie which now 20 years later I flights to work for the same company.
00:04:04.980 --> 00:04:20.760 Stephen Holgate: Just bounced around a few different countries, so it was in London for a few years, I actually followed a girl back to Australia and ozzy girl who was living in London, we met she was moving to Sydney I followed her there that one didn't work out those.
00:04:21.570 --> 00:04:23.280 Graham Dobbin: Did she know that you were following her.
00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:25.260 Stephen Holgate: face that.
00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:28.740 Stephen Holgate: We together decided.
00:04:29.820 --> 00:04:33.780 Stephen Holgate: That we would be living together in Sydney before I moved back from London.
00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:42.960 Stephen Holgate: So it was it was a with her there for four years, still working with Dale Carnegie and then, when that relationship didn't work out I said well.
00:04:43.710 --> 00:04:52.170 Stephen Holgate: You know the company I work for is headquartered in New York City, I was 3132 years of the time, I thought, well, maybe the New York office.
00:04:52.650 --> 00:05:03.120 Stephen Holgate: will give me a shot on me hang out for a year or so, so I packed my bags from Sydney told my Australian friends, I would be going just for one year and they said.
00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:10.290 Stephen Holgate: No, you won't you'll meet an American girl you'll fall in love you'll end up saying there and I said no, the chance, I am definitely coming back to Australia.
00:05:11.430 --> 00:05:21.720 Stephen Holgate: So yeah that's a guarantee it and then anyway moved to New York fell in love with a girl and American girl and got married I coming up to our five year anniversary in a couple of months time so.
00:05:22.200 --> 00:05:31.470 Stephen Holgate: As I bounced around the world, I think the US is going to be home for the rest of my life and yeah it's been fun hanging out having different experiences and different countries um.
00:05:31.770 --> 00:05:40.560 Graham Dobbin: So what what's what's behind that you go to London for six months you're there for four and a half years you come to New York for a year and you're you're here for what 11 years 1011.
00:05:41.070 --> 00:05:43.020 Stephen Holgate: Just over 11 years coming up to 12.
00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.820 Graham Dobbin: So what, what do you think that's about so there's obviously an adventure streak there.
00:05:49.020 --> 00:05:51.390 Stephen Holgate: there's an adventurous streak and there's also.
00:05:52.680 --> 00:06:03.000 Stephen Holgate: What I tell myself to make myself comfortable with any decisions I make i've thought about this before that I think when I moved to London as a 23 year old it seemed very palatable.
00:06:03.390 --> 00:06:13.980 Stephen Holgate: So just think Oh, this is like a six month working vacation working holiday all all doing our job, make sure i'm making enough money to take over and six months I can do that go back to Australia i'll be fine.
00:06:14.880 --> 00:06:19.890 Stephen Holgate: And then, while I was enjoying it there was just as easy to stay as it was to return to Australia.
00:06:20.910 --> 00:06:26.220 Stephen Holgate: And I think the same thing when I like I thought I was leaving London to return to Australia for good.
00:06:27.810 --> 00:06:35.820 Stephen Holgate: But then when the relationship side of things didn't work out and it was the case well i've got another opportunity was I really ready to to be settling down in Australia.
00:06:36.210 --> 00:06:54.480 Stephen Holgate: I think I told myself just one year in New York, anyone can do that it's a working holiday sort of thing again and so adventurous, and to some extent risk taker but convincing myself with wasn't much of a risk, because it was only a short term thing anyway, and then just changing my plan.
00:06:55.110 --> 00:06:57.030 Graham Dobbin: So you always had a way out our.
00:06:58.170 --> 00:06:58.950 Stephen Holgate: meeting that.
00:06:59.190 --> 00:07:06.540 Graham Dobbin: You mentioned that when you went to London you've said i'll do some more jobs carried around and then come back what were the odd jobs.
00:07:07.200 --> 00:07:12.180 Stephen Holgate: I was willing to do our jobs, so I was thinking I would work in a bar work in a coffee shop.
00:07:12.990 --> 00:07:27.480 Stephen Holgate: What ended up happening was getting a job for a recruitment company not old calling a phone calls per day was the sort of work that i've worked for a management consultancy in Australia and straight out of university and.
00:07:28.530 --> 00:07:31.860 Stephen Holgate: I knew, one of my goal was, I wanted to own my own businesses in the future.
00:07:32.370 --> 00:07:46.770 Stephen Holgate: And I said, well, I actually completely have a fear of cold calling reaching out to new people, as I think, even in the consultancy, if I had to call or email somebody I didn't know just for a research aspect I was so nervous about it.
00:07:47.790 --> 00:07:56.970 Stephen Holgate: I knew that I needed to get over that if I was going to be a leader be in business, etc, so yeah I am I ended up when I landed in London.
00:07:58.170 --> 00:08:02.070 Stephen Holgate: Using the gum tree newspaper I don't know if that's still a thing I think it's maybe yes.
00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:04.170 Stephen Holgate: i'm.
00:08:04.380 --> 00:08:07.560 Stephen Holgate: i'm 43 years old, now, it was I was 23 when I was in London.
00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:10.650 Stephen Holgate: and looking for jobs in.
00:08:11.790 --> 00:08:21.240 Stephen Holgate: In any sort of cold calling jobs, and so I went for a bunch of interviews and the one that ended up working out was it with a large multinational recruitment company tmp.
00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:35.280 Graham Dobbin: um it's interesting about it, people I speak to both sales to kind of stumbled into it it's not a plan is kind of something we do job would you say that's fair is that your experience.
00:08:35.760 --> 00:08:40.710 Stephen Holgate: I think it's fair that that's the case for many people mine was mine was different mind was.
00:08:41.790 --> 00:08:44.490 Stephen Holgate: It somewhat too liberal i'll expand on it so.
00:08:44.970 --> 00:08:52.650 Stephen Holgate: When I was at university I did a marketing degree and my belief of the time which i'm partly embarrassed to say this now, but in full disclosure.
00:08:52.890 --> 00:09:03.540 Stephen Holgate: I believe, at the time was marketing was what the people with college degrees did sales is what the people who didn't quite stick around university with to, especially in Australia, that would be the perception I know people in the US.
00:09:04.380 --> 00:09:13.170 Stephen Holgate: Do a four year degree in sales and they go out and looking for a job in sales, but in Australia, the mentality was sales is what you do if you didn't have a university degree.
00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:22.320 Stephen Holgate: And so I was always very sophisticated I did a marketing degree, you know very smart, so it never lower myself to to a media sales position.
00:09:22.830 --> 00:09:37.890 Stephen Holgate: And then yeah with a little bit of experience and realized how moronic I was that fails when done properly is true consulting Problem Solving helping people, and there is a.
00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.910 Stephen Holgate: different set of skills of being in marketing versus in sales.
00:09:42.930 --> 00:09:52.320 Stephen Holgate: But it was it was a for me, it was a strategic decision once I was in London that I needed to get sales skills in order for me to one day have my own business.
00:09:52.950 --> 00:10:02.310 Graham Dobbin: Did you see that as being a career as a sales being a career or did you just see as a path to I normally the cost for got more business, I need to get customers sometime.
00:10:02.670 --> 00:10:12.930 Stephen Holgate: Definitely, the second definitely the path a means to an end, having to learn sales having to specifically having to overcome the fear of cold calling the nervousness of speaking to people.
00:10:14.790 --> 00:10:20.940 Stephen Holgate: It means to an end it's so that I could be a business entrepreneur and leader that that's the end goal.
00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:30.120 Graham Dobbin: or push your thought we talk about perception of the law you're seeing in the show you that the sales has got a certain perception, which is exactly the same as the UK.
00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:40.110 Graham Dobbin: think is a slightly different than the US, but you know it's not it's not the exact opposite I really think it's undervalued so much.
00:10:40.590 --> 00:10:50.820 Stephen Holgate: I think it's undervalued, I also think it's stigmatized I think if you look at our pop culture movies, that when people think of sales in movies, they think of wolf of Wall Street.
00:10:51.390 --> 00:10:53.040 Stephen Holgate: Wall Street boiler room.
00:10:53.610 --> 00:10:56.220 Stephen Holgate: They also think of the used car salesman.
00:10:56.490 --> 00:11:10.110 Stephen Holgate: And there's this image and this character and this story around sales being the sort of person who can talk a good game and convince you to do something against your will and a higher if you're good at sales you've been neglected them and got them into.
00:11:10.710 --> 00:11:14.970 Stephen Holgate: You know thinking what you wanted them to think, so I think that's the stereotype the image.
00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:23.130 Stephen Holgate: And that's why i've seen is that sort of I guess either cheesy or harsh bullish manipulative.
00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:31.740 Stephen Holgate: In beneath them against their will, I think that's that's still the stereotype more so in the UK and Australia i'm still in the US just.
00:11:33.270 --> 00:11:38.910 Graham Dobbin: You know, essentially run it, you know run a lot of networking groups, I see a lot of.
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:42.300 Graham Dobbin: owners of small businesses.
00:11:43.410 --> 00:11:47.010 Graham Dobbin: being very careful didn't want to see small business owners, because I know where that would go with us.
00:11:48.150 --> 00:12:02.100 Graham Dobbin: But when there's a small businesses and very, very good at what they do experts at what they do and study for maybe a lot of years at university i've got all the qualifications technically exceptional.
00:12:02.910 --> 00:12:15.210 Graham Dobbin: But really struggled to bring in business on the shuttle with a sales process and being like I would say the probably clumsy sales people, more than anything else it's just seems to be that natural fear of it.
00:12:16.470 --> 00:12:29.730 Stephen Holgate: there's a fear of it because of I think the pressure people put on themselves because of that stereotype people, people are wondering that say oh i'm not like Gordon gekko from Wall Street i'm not like Jordan, the guy from north of Wall Street Leonardo dicaprio.
00:12:29.760 --> 00:12:30.480 Graham Dobbin: Sorry, yes, yes.
00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:33.510 Graham Dobbin: begins with the be sure.
00:12:34.350 --> 00:12:41.790 Stephen Holgate: And so they're like oh i'm not that sort of person, am I doing sales wrong oh I wasn't able to be stupid charismatic there I mustn't be a good salesperson.
00:12:43.290 --> 00:12:56.850 Stephen Holgate: charisma can be really useful in sales I don't think is the most important skill, because we come on to that later, but so I think it's this this perception of a small business owner and sorry a owner of a small business.
00:12:58.260 --> 00:13:03.810 Stephen Holgate: Being somebody who was like well i'm really good at my technical skills, you know I maybe it's.
00:13:04.350 --> 00:13:11.910 Stephen Holgate: somebody who has a furniture manufacturing company, maybe it's somebody who has their an engineer, whatever it is, and they're really good at their technical skills.
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:25.980 Stephen Holgate: And I said, well, I know that this sales thing is a completely different set of skills, who am I to play at school, my am I doing it right i'm not like the movie stereotype for that I think that's what concerns them it.
00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:27.300 Graham Dobbin: was a Jordan Belfort.
00:13:27.630 --> 00:13:28.650 Stephen Holgate: Yes, thank you.
00:13:29.130 --> 00:13:34.860 Graham Dobbin: Something like that um yeah it's interesting we're going to come on we're going to break in a couple of minutes.
00:13:35.490 --> 00:13:46.500 Graham Dobbin: we'll come on to kind of the conversational selling because what I see but Pelosi clumsy is people seem to be not themselves yeah and think they need to be a certain way.
00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:57.630 Graham Dobbin: And what we definitely want to explore them when we come back from it just how do we, how do we become authentic, how do we have those kind of conversations and just walk through it without the fear.
00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:03.750 Graham Dobbin: And what the differences, maybe we've touched on that already kind of London.
00:14:04.620 --> 00:14:14.400 Graham Dobbin: Sydney New York, what do we need to be aware of which i'm sure will come into dealing with global brands you're listening to the main behind sales this evening.
00:14:14.760 --> 00:14:25.800 Graham Dobbin: we've got Stephen Holgate who's the global partnership manager at Dale Carnegie and he Carnegie master trainer and we will be back right after these messages.
00:17:27.690 --> 00:17:35.460 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the mind behind I live on top radio dot nyc my name is Graham dobbin we're speaking with Stephen hawking this evening.
00:17:36.330 --> 00:17:50.010 Graham Dobbin: Stephen let's just kind of so it's interesting Australian went to London began selling in London, then went back to Australia to do it, what i'm curious we're going to kind of come on Sunday dealing with global sales.
00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:56.730 Graham Dobbin: i'm curious about what cultural differences, you saw between maybe the UK and Australia, to begin with.
00:17:57.840 --> 00:18:05.790 Stephen Holgate: And there's a couple differences, specifically in relation to selling yeah and it's interesting i've thought about this before and.
00:18:07.020 --> 00:18:15.960 Stephen Holgate: For me it's hard to isolate the differences, I experienced between my own personal experiences so intertwined with my.
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:21.060 Stephen Holgate: Differences in cultural experiences differences in how I was being deceived and.
00:18:21.510 --> 00:18:33.450 Stephen Holgate: received by my clients and prospects, is my level of experience so in the UK That was my first four years of selling, so I could say, well, yes, selling in the UK is much more difficult than selling in the US or Australia.
00:18:34.170 --> 00:18:47.640 Stephen Holgate: Okay That was my first four years of ever selling so maybe that had something more to do with it in Sydney it was on back in my own turf now I got a slight English accent I had more of an English accent after anyway.
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.760 Graham Dobbin: that's a different conversation.
00:18:51.120 --> 00:18:53.880 Stephen Holgate: yeah I did that'll take the rest of the radio show.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:02.010 Stephen Holgate: But it was so I had a little bit more experience, I felt comfortable back in in Australia, knowing how Australians do things.
00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:17.130 Stephen Holgate: and New York was I knew that I had to adapt, but I was more experienced so in differences, especially in the reigning industry, which is what i've been selling for 20 years corporate training programs, you know sales training programs presentations leadership, what have you.
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.140 Stephen Holgate: The Brits I know this is a mass generalization Brits perspective of training.
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:34.530 Stephen Holgate: Generally speaking, is often the training is a remedial activity people by training because you're not doing your job well enough, we better send you on a training course.
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.520 Stephen Holgate: At the other end of the spectrum is an A again generally speaking.
00:19:39.060 --> 00:19:48.120 Stephen Holgate: People in the UFC training as a privilege and honor my company is investing in me they see me as a rising star why don't all and Australia sit somewhere in between the two.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:57.810 Stephen Holgate: So that's, specifically in terms of bringing i've had to adapt because of the perception of the product that i'm selling and then just culturally in terms of how people buy.
00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:06.120 Stephen Holgate: i've also gone from London, where I do some on the phone that some in person at follow up meetings were.
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:18.060 Stephen Holgate: Always in zone one central London walking to every possible meeting because there's a few thousand businesses within a couple of Blocks walk the tube a couple of stations to get to every meeting.
00:20:19.170 --> 00:20:24.990 Stephen Holgate: I always found I thought, maybe they just were nice to me because I was younger, but always found the very pleasant always open the tea and coffee when I.
00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:32.610 Stephen Holgate: came into the office, even though i'd be selling to them all these a little bit and then Americans very offended when I first came here I would be going to some meetings in Manhattan.
00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:41.280 Stephen Holgate: Nobody offered me to copy when I arrived it's very, very upsetting and the stereotypes of new Yorkers versus the rest of the US as well.
00:20:42.330 --> 00:20:58.590 Stephen Holgate: But new Yorkers was shorter meetings get to the point quicken I needed to develop more of a I needed more resilience more brashness more assertiveness yet still a conversational authentic true style but get there faster than what I ever had to do in Sydney and even in London.
00:20:59.970 --> 00:21:03.780 Graham Dobbin: You must have been good to see their own customers, because in London, I did most of my business over beer.
00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:05.100 coffee.
00:21:07.020 --> 00:21:17.910 Graham Dobbin: yeah London was really interesting to sell a really interesting market and it's entered you just mentioning that I did it was very friendly, it was very welcome we're very open and.
00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:27.960 Stephen Holgate: I had nothing to compare it to the time that's the name of my sales career doing any face to face sales and so that's like Oh, this is what sales is they welcome sales people with coffee years ago.
00:21:28.320 --> 00:21:35.040 Stephen Holgate: I bounced around to different client meetings and they're very hospitable and they might not buy from me that you know I got a free cup of coffee.
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:41.880 Graham Dobbin: you've taken me back a few years and yeah, that is, that is absolutely not what is like know.
00:21:42.360 --> 00:21:52.800 Stephen Holgate: All of the all of the Americans, listening to the radio show, please when a salesperson comes into your office back in once we're all safe and vaccinated please offer them coffee or tea, especially if they have an accent like grams or mine.
00:21:53.490 --> 00:21:56.370 Graham Dobbin: In a paper Cup, so you can kick them out still and.
00:21:58.080 --> 00:21:59.340 Graham Dobbin: You got no product to sell.
00:21:59.970 --> 00:22:01.350 Graham Dobbin: and interested in that.
00:22:03.210 --> 00:22:12.840 Graham Dobbin: Because there is there is different types of selling and you're selling, something that is nobody can really touch or feel, how do you think that's different.
00:22:14.220 --> 00:22:22.830 Stephen Holgate: I absolutely agree that it's different and it's been interesting because all i've ever sold is intangible product I guess you'd say services.
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:34.080 Stephen Holgate: I would say that's that's all i've still solid in terms of recruitment and then 20 years selling training it's also pretty much the only clients i've had our services that they're selling they're not doing a product.
00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:47.580 Stephen Holgate: companies like indeed that there i'm helping their sales people sell a recruitment platform online companies like tick tock i'm helping their sales people sell something that you can't touch it feel it experience it it's advertising space on tick tock.
00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:56.640 Stephen Holgate: same with clients i've had in the past, so that's my that's been my only experience and what I am aware of, though, is if.
00:22:57.120 --> 00:23:05.790 Stephen Holgate: As a sales person who's selling themselves selling their services and not selling a physical tangible touch it feel it and.
00:23:06.360 --> 00:23:19.320 Stephen Holgate: it's The relationship is a hugely important thing, and not looking, not that I would think it's not important to build a relationship if you're selling a tangible product I would think that if somebody is buying a tangible product.
00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:26.970 Stephen Holgate: They would put up with a bad salesperson because, like well I love that products, I guess i'll deal with them.
00:23:28.110 --> 00:23:44.580 Stephen Holgate: In selling a service or an intangible product it completely come down to the salesperson the trust the the the reliability, the fact that if something goes wrong in the service delivery will use it for me.
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:47.580 Graham Dobbin: um.
00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:56.640 Graham Dobbin: So you've you've got from the UK to share your to New York, and we need to touch them, they should also training.
00:23:57.030 --> 00:23:57.360 Stephen Holgate: um.
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.680 Graham Dobbin: Do you see yourself as a trainer for sales person second or the other way around.
00:24:03.090 --> 00:24:07.410 Stephen Holgate: I do i'd still that's how I define us as sorry as a trainer first sales but.
00:24:07.620 --> 00:24:08.040 Stephen Holgate: i'm a.
00:24:08.250 --> 00:24:20.700 Stephen Holgate: and actually i've said this casually to other people, I see myself as a trainer who sells not a sales person who trains okay now maybe that's just maybe that's just a cute little expression that i've come over the years.
00:24:22.290 --> 00:24:36.270 Stephen Holgate: But it's I I genuinely enjoy both i've been very fortunate in my Korea now we've got about 1000 sales people at Dale Carnegie where I work now i've finished number one in the world, the last couple of years number two before that.
00:24:37.260 --> 00:24:42.660 Stephen Holgate: So some of the senior leaders in the company I think laugh at me when I say well i'm i'm a trainer who sells i'm not really a salesperson.
00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:58.740 Stephen Holgate: But I think that's been my mentality, so please don't take that the wrong whether i'm a very proud salesperson, but I think that mentality of trainer equals consultant trainer equals problem solver trainer equals.
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:10.380 Stephen Holgate: building relationships and being there for clients and look yeah okay there's some revenue to be spoken about there's there's a cost to be able to purchase the services.
00:25:11.100 --> 00:25:21.000 Stephen Holgate: cool and my sort of thoughts on that are that you know if it's the right product and the price works and it's you seems think it's the right services, then then great i'm here for you, if it's not.
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:25.830 Stephen Holgate: cool if there's somebody out there, that you think is a better fit for your company that's right.
00:25:27.330 --> 00:25:27.690 Graham Dobbin: So I.
00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.490 Graham Dobbin: guess.
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:42.870 Graham Dobbin: we're working with sales teams, etc, everybody tries to avoid the know what i'm hearing from us and i'm quite comfortable getting know if that's if that's how it is that's how it is i'm not saying that's what you want.
00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:45.300 Graham Dobbin: And just be your cup but you're comfortable hearing it.
00:25:45.780 --> 00:25:53.790 Stephen Holgate: This is it yes it's really become a philosophy of mine in the last few years, where I have self reflective itself analyzed.
00:25:55.080 --> 00:26:01.320 Stephen Holgate: On the on on who I want to be how I want to show up what I want to achieve all of that sort of good juicy stuff.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:07.110 Stephen Holgate: yeah I think I think one on one part of it is, I think i'm in a very fortunate position.
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:21.540 Stephen Holgate: If right now you're interviewing me and all of my major clients I just said, Stephen my counseling I contracts we're not doing anything hey maybe i'd be out i'd be out there prospecting i'd be lead generation i'd be doing every promotional seminar free of charge possible.
00:26:22.860 --> 00:26:30.540 Stephen Holgate: I am, however, in a very fortunate position that I have a number of key clients with long established partnerships that.
00:26:31.350 --> 00:26:41.400 Stephen Holgate: See value in the work that myself and my team deliver for them, and so, because I have this baseline of partnerships.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:54.150 Stephen Holgate: i'm fortunate that i'm not in a position right now desperately seeking to grow absolutely enticed by new clients and excited by potential of working with your company's sure, but i'm not.
00:26:55.170 --> 00:26:57.120 Stephen Holgate: i'm not begging for it i'm not desperate.
00:26:58.080 --> 00:27:05.850 Graham Dobbin: But that's very different from your for sure so it's interesting you're working with indeed when you talk about recruitment in the in that kind of space, but your fourth rule was very much hunting.
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:15.690 Stephen Holgate: Both roles very much wanting, and then, when i've moved when I started with don Carnegie in London hunting and when I moved to Sydney wanting, and when I moved to New York hunting.
00:27:16.890 --> 00:27:24.000 Stephen Holgate: But then being able to transition into farming, which is probably what i'm more comfortable in enjoy more get more.
00:27:25.050 --> 00:27:27.690 Stephen Holgate: you'll feel more you get more enjoyment from it.
00:27:27.990 --> 00:27:30.840 Graham Dobbin: Will dig into the relationships and how you've done that.
00:27:32.190 --> 00:27:48.720 Graham Dobbin: Because that's going to be really important because farm is a large large part of it, you know the this eat what you kill mentality, it is a challenge, a box for the break, how do you differentiate yourself how do you think you stand out from other people.
00:27:50.070 --> 00:28:05.850 Stephen Holgate: But i'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that my accent in the US helps that is a meet me to see me I just look like average person I open my mouth there's some level of connection there's something different, so there is, I think I am very fortunate as an Australian living in New York.
00:28:06.990 --> 00:28:20.790 Stephen Holgate: Back to i'd like i'd like to pretend it was all based on my my skills and my problem solving ability, but there, there are there is a particular that's just what it is the the brand image of Australians I think I really benefit from probably the opposite to scotts where he must Center.
00:28:22.110 --> 00:28:22.320 Stephen Holgate: That.
00:28:24.540 --> 00:28:24.960 Graham Dobbin: button.
00:28:27.810 --> 00:28:32.970 Stephen Holgate: No, I think the Scottish accent in any any variety of different British and European accents are also very well like it.
00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:34.800 Graham Dobbin: Was not safe.
00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:36.840 Stephen Holgate: Okay, I know I wasn't even close I just.
00:28:37.650 --> 00:28:39.720 Stephen Holgate: I don't know defending us to show listeners, are you.
00:28:41.970 --> 00:28:47.790 Stephen Holgate: So, yes it's finding what makes me unique and leaning into it, I think that's helpful and then it's.
00:28:49.560 --> 00:28:59.820 Stephen Holgate: All of my clients would say there's there's an authenticity there's a realness that even from the first conversation that they got a sense of he's not loving me blogging bs in me.
00:29:00.870 --> 00:29:06.240 Stephen Holgate: I can trust this guy he's gonna make recommendations is going to say some stuff if we choose those recommendations are going to cost me money.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:16.680 Stephen Holgate: But at least atrocities guy i'm hoping that in every interaction prospect client whoever that they sense the realness behind me, trying to help them.
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:24.750 Graham Dobbin: will take into that when we come back, how do we show that authenticity, how did maybe we have the confidence, why don't we why don't we show it.
00:29:25.260 --> 00:29:36.780 Graham Dobbin: And really want to have i'll touch on what's been a good time you've mentioned some of that some of the global accounts or you're working with you know what's the what's what's the city, what would you regard as the big success and maybe.
00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:52.380 Graham Dobbin: times but it's not being is joining us as you would like it to be and you're listening to the mind behind selling we're on talk radio dot nyc live in New York City source the evening and we'll be back we'll be back after these messages.
00:29:56.250 --> 00:29:59.250 Stephen Holgate: And my scene and lift educated.
00:29:59.610 --> 00:30:00.270 In happen.
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.760 Graham Dobbin: and welcome back to the main behind selling with Stephen Holgate this evening on talk radio dot nyc.
00:32:52.230 --> 00:33:01.950 Graham Dobbin: what's the one deal that jumps out to you, we haven't we're hearing some big names what's the one that you go that was it now, that was a big one.
00:33:03.270 --> 00:33:05.220 Stephen Holgate: i'd go back in my career.
00:33:06.540 --> 00:33:14.820 Stephen Holgate: which actually loop, so one of the stories are telling other about moving and bouncing around to different countries and only expecting to be in New York City for 12 months.
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:23.160 Stephen Holgate: When I came over here, I was it you mentioned my role is July, in addition to selling corporate training I don't about the training, but let's help.
00:33:24.120 --> 00:33:31.800 Stephen Holgate: So when I moved to New York, because I didn't expect to be here for a very long time yeah a year, or there abouts.
00:33:32.490 --> 00:33:38.760 Stephen Holgate: I was focusing more on the training side of my role, and we had other sales people who would sell training, who are not trying to themselves.
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:45.930 Stephen Holgate: And they would engage me to be the one who delivers the program and that was most of all, I would do, and it was on a contract basis.
00:33:46.470 --> 00:33:56.010 Stephen Holgate: So I moved up to New York with a small amount of savings to sort of get me by for a year and after I forget the exact time, maybe living here 10 months 12 months, whatever it exactly was.
00:33:57.120 --> 00:34:04.290 Stephen Holgate: pretty much ran out of any savings and my money, I was making from being a contract trainer was like.
00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:19.560 Stephen Holgate: Eating enough to get through barely for a couple of months, I was like wow um I decided, I did want to say in New York, there were things that within one year I didn't think I had done enough seen enough experienced enough all that sort of stuff.
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:30.000 Stephen Holgate: And so I was like okay well i've sold in London i've sold in Australia and maybe I can transition into doing more sales in.
00:34:30.990 --> 00:34:41.820 Stephen Holgate: The US as well if i'm going to stay here for longer so convince the Managing Director of the Office at the time to allow me to be a sales person, as well as a trainer.
00:34:42.930 --> 00:34:48.540 Stephen Holgate: Very new very different very, very unusual of the time within the business model in in our particular office.
00:34:49.890 --> 00:35:03.990 Stephen Holgate: And I was actually really fortunate in that this is maybe just being completely open about how this happened, I think it was a salesperson left the company and he was midway through.
00:35:05.070 --> 00:35:22.110 Stephen Holgate: closing a deal, so you open the conversation I was going to be the trainer if it went ahead, but then he left the company left they'll kind of your company here, and so I was allowed to pick it up as the salesperson and then Commission if it's old.
00:35:23.490 --> 00:35:33.210 Stephen Holgate: ended up with a few weeks, maybe a month later, close the deal, and the Commission on that deal literally.
00:35:33.810 --> 00:35:43.650 Stephen Holgate: allowed me to stay in New York City for at least another six months, like if I it to the point that if I hadn't closed that deal, I would have been booking a flight back to Australia.
00:35:44.520 --> 00:35:51.960 Stephen Holgate: And having to re establish myself now, by the way, I my bank account still would have been zero dollars, if I landed back in Australia, so I don't know why I felt.
00:35:52.920 --> 00:36:07.050 Stephen Holgate: It just magically being in my home country, I would be any safer than staying in New York, but that was my mentality was you know if I don't have enough money to survive in New York get my backside Australia, but that one deals with an insurance company.
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:17.520 Stephen Holgate: Is a smaller insurance company I dude like shipping insurance, but I, it was a larger deal to train leadership skills for all of their staff and.
00:36:18.450 --> 00:36:32.610 Stephen Holgate: that's what kept me in New York that's what allowed me to then have a stronger relationship with my then girlfriend now wife, because I was sticking around when everything else seemed to work out because of that one company, who said, yet my life would be very different.
00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:35.940 Stephen Holgate: If that client didn't say yes.
00:36:36.060 --> 00:36:38.520 Graham Dobbin: If that previous salesperson have done so.
00:36:38.550 --> 00:36:42.510 Stephen Holgate: Well, also, that so Jeff if you're listening buddy thanks man.
00:36:43.410 --> 00:36:45.330 Graham Dobbin: You did by surely you bought him a coffee.
00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:49.860 Stephen Holgate: So I know we pulled up a lunch like five years ago, or there abouts.
00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:52.260 Stephen Holgate: We pay for food.
00:36:53.010 --> 00:37:01.530 Graham Dobbin: centric so sales natural business natural that we kind of focus on the big ones we focus on the trophies we focus on it and so.
00:37:01.950 --> 00:37:16.350 Graham Dobbin: Obviously, when you come in i'm talking about indeed tick tock a gq BC I know you know you've dealt with a lot more, but you pick one that's a little bit smaller that had a significant impact on you um what were the ones that didn't happen.
00:37:20.610 --> 00:37:22.500 Graham Dobbin: It doesn't sound like you've got too many of those.
00:37:23.100 --> 00:37:26.010 Stephen Holgate: know many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many.
00:37:26.580 --> 00:37:28.470 Graham Dobbin: what's the one that jumps out in that one.
00:37:28.470 --> 00:37:29.310 stone.
00:37:31.050 --> 00:37:31.710 Stephen Holgate: Which one.
00:37:32.730 --> 00:37:33.300 Stephen Holgate: i'm.
00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:47.580 Stephen Holgate: gonna guess, this goes back to what I was saying, a little bit earlier um look as a salesperson and sales, people are usually making a sale as attached to income and, hopefully, without it being greedy, but just.
00:37:48.810 --> 00:37:55.410 Stephen Holgate: earning money is is good at allows us to live a certain lifestyle so yeah so we want to close and I want to close every every deal but.
00:37:56.040 --> 00:38:09.630 Stephen Holgate: I was thinking about this because I thought this sort of question might come up and, on reflection, they really hasn't been deals that standards yeah it's slightly disappointed, but I guess it's a philosophy that I have of.
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:17.670 Stephen Holgate: If i'm if i'm not the right person because of you know i'm selling myself or my team to deliver training, if I if i'm not the right person.
00:38:17.850 --> 00:38:24.570 Stephen Holgate: either, because my prices are too high or because the cultural fit not there between companies or because of whatever other reason.
00:38:24.870 --> 00:38:33.300 Stephen Holgate: And the company that I was talking with if they found somebody else or a different company who they feel is the right cultural fit the right price the right whatever.
00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:42.690 Stephen Holgate: better than I would be well no hard feelings my baby that's my Australian so the thing was just like well okay that's cool that.
00:38:43.170 --> 00:38:52.320 Stephen Holgate: That other person gives you what you want, so i'll just be back here and i'll just go look for those clients who want me because you know, this is a pretty big city pretty big country.
00:38:53.490 --> 00:39:04.350 Stephen Holgate: there's other companies out there, so if this one doesn't want me and that one doesn't want me in this probably like when I was dating I went through many people not having any interest whatsoever in me it says again how long's your radio show for those stories.
00:39:07.410 --> 00:39:14.880 Stephen Holgate: But just the level of cool if this they don't want me all hang out until I find the company that does all ago.
00:39:15.210 --> 00:39:24.930 Graham Dobbin: here's the thing I think personally it feels like there's a there's a special kind of person who can who can provide that and then maybe a cultural differences, well then maybe.
00:39:25.470 --> 00:39:36.450 Graham Dobbin: Slightly back let's come on to the people that you're working with now you you've got not pill to swallow appointment you've got responsibility.
00:39:37.290 --> 00:39:55.620 Graham Dobbin: for helping to develop and sales people whose their careers, they can afford for those business, you know for for those deals to go and you've got global brands that are trusting you to design the right type of training, the right type of development and the right type of culture.
00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:59.310 Graham Dobbin: yeah within within the team to actually grow their business.
00:40:00.390 --> 00:40:03.060 Graham Dobbin: Do you ever sit and talking about how far that's come.
00:40:03.750 --> 00:40:04.200 Stephen Holgate: well.
00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:05.550 Graham Dobbin: I mean a relatively short.
00:40:05.580 --> 00:40:08.070 Stephen Holgate: I am right now, when you pointed out, like that yeah and show.
00:40:09.570 --> 00:40:10.080 Thank you.
00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:12.300 Stephen Holgate: I do, I do.
00:40:13.320 --> 00:40:30.720 Stephen Holgate: I reflect on the line i'm a big reflection, so the guy like I had my life plan that I started working on the age of 23 and I updated every month or two, we could refine what I wanted to do part of that life plan is looking back on whether by achieve have I done what have I done.
00:40:32.190 --> 00:40:37.590 Stephen Holgate: So I do think about that a lot and I do I do like my mental self image.
00:40:39.060 --> 00:40:48.690 Stephen Holgate: I sometimes get surprised when I walk by a mirror it's like oh there's an old bald guy with glasses because that's not like my mental self image is a 25 year old kid just having fun this Australia and who's hanging out in New York.
00:40:49.170 --> 00:40:57.270 Stephen Holgate: grabbing the is with people when I can just just just you know, being able to honestly to live a very privileged life, and one that I recognize the privileges of i've had in life.
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:08.760 Stephen Holgate: And so, because my mental self image is just that all like i'm having fun i'm doing what I enjoy i'm getting to help other people in selling to help other people in delivering presentations.
00:41:09.210 --> 00:41:20.400 Stephen Holgate: that's fun helping people and they pay me for that cool so here, it is sometimes a bit of a shock or surprise when I take a step back and go oh wow um the.
00:41:21.180 --> 00:41:29.880 Stephen Holgate: People in the executive team of very large global cool savvy tech brands trust me to lead a team to train their people in a house or sell.
00:41:32.160 --> 00:41:35.370 Stephen Holgate: Companies that is I guess the part of our our growth.
00:41:35.850 --> 00:41:52.410 Stephen Holgate: has, in part, i'm not trying to overplay they're all i've had on and be very cautious with that, but acknowledge that there, there has been some level of help that I provided in literally helping their companies grow into the source of revenue very large revenue for a few of those companies.
00:41:53.310 --> 00:41:57.870 Graham Dobbin: is again we talked service we've got platform companies here that.
00:41:59.130 --> 00:42:08.940 Graham Dobbin: Are online so let's let's take something like indeed and tick tock we've got companies that are online not really selling a huge product is supposed to tick tock there's that there's a bit there.
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:13.140 Graham Dobbin: But the technology companies and they're still using sales people.
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:15.030 Stephen Holgate: Right yeah.
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:27.180 Graham Dobbin: You know I everybody's telling me sales was dead years ago it was all going online and everybody's going to do through social media we're going to post an advert and everybody would rush to buy from us that's not the case.
00:42:27.750 --> 00:42:35.880 Stephen Holgate: No, there is, there is still a human interaction in sales, there is still a problem solving interaction I look i'm sure there's some products that you.
00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:49.440 Stephen Holgate: know there you go on to the websites Amazon, and then you just buy a product and my new vacuum cleaner just arrived from Amazon, the other day cool that there are other products that people buy that it's a human interaction there's the people want to know.
00:42:50.730 --> 00:42:56.250 Stephen Holgate: Even if you're selling product not services, going back to what we're talking about before they want to know that if something goes wrong.
00:42:56.520 --> 00:43:04.410 Stephen Holgate: Will a human be there to help me they want to know that if I if I want more information, will the human be there and in business to business sales.
00:43:04.710 --> 00:43:11.880 Stephen Holgate: Then it's when when I have this team of people can rely on my one point person for our companies to partner together, for there is.
00:43:12.120 --> 00:43:25.470 Stephen Holgate: Absolutely, a human role now assuming role now is done usually virtually on zoom and esteem Skype whatever it might be so it's not a physical handshake but there's still a human being to human being, for business to business partnerships.
00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:37.440 Graham Dobbin: i'm hearing everything that you've done is built been built through relationships, so when we come back after break really want to dig into what does that mean, I hear about relationship selling all the time, but what was what does that actually mean.
00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:49.260 Graham Dobbin: And what you're saying, because my guess is that yeah we're doing this virtually no but My guess is there's actually been a maybe a slight difference in approach in the last year or how people are selling.
00:43:50.910 --> 00:43:57.630 Graham Dobbin: And kind of the things that let's talk we're talking about the main behind selling the things that they're having to deal with what's what.
00:43:58.230 --> 00:44:10.050 Graham Dobbin: You know what do sales people need to dig into another resilience is going to be high on the list there before what's changing the rules, how they need to hide the need to approach it and.
00:44:10.590 --> 00:44:17.880 Graham Dobbin: What do you see this good why, why is that human interaction still going to be needed that just one or two little bit questions and.
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:33.120 Graham Dobbin: you're listening to them find behind sales on talk radio dot nyc is Thursday evening is getting dark out there it's a New York City, and we are speaking with Stephen hawking we'll be back right after these for the last section of the show.
00:44:34.890 --> 00:44:37.260 Stephen Holgate: or listening to radio.
00:44:39.870 --> 00:44:41.040 Education in.
00:46:54.600 --> 00:47:00.690 Graham Dobbin: Every week at happens and it's not a way, this section that the guests are dancing to the future that's great.
00:47:00.900 --> 00:47:07.590 Stephen Holgate: move on we're thinking you must love having that that really uplifting thing whenever you walk into a room somebody displays that music.
00:47:07.740 --> 00:47:10.230 Graham Dobbin: I think, whoever chose it had great taste.
00:47:12.210 --> 00:47:12.870 Stephen Holgate: Really wasn't you.
00:47:13.170 --> 00:47:29.280 Graham Dobbin: It was me anyway um so let's let's talk about sales teams let's talk about what's changed in the last year, what do people need to do it if you're a sales person out there for what's happened what's what's the difference now.
00:47:30.540 --> 00:47:35.220 Stephen Holgate: I imagine it depends on the sort of product that you're selling with that, I think, for a lot of people.
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:48.720 Stephen Holgate: we've had a 12 month period where there's been a challenge of I believe needing to show some patients to customers show not even just patients but respect understanding sympathy.
00:47:50.550 --> 00:47:59.610 Stephen Holgate: togetherness he taking data, an example all of our salespeople so the the motto right indeed is, I help people get jobs.
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:11.400 Stephen Holgate: Over the pandemic they've changed their motto to I help and the message from the chief revenue officer and his name's nolan and for all of his sales people globally was.
00:48:11.730 --> 00:48:29.610 Stephen Holgate: We are here to help convey that to our clients, we want them to know that we're here to help so quotas changed metrics changed because the focus of the company said we want our client facing people, yes, we call themselves people that have sales for this show but client facing people.
00:48:30.750 --> 00:48:32.220 Stephen Holgate: demonstrate they hope.
00:48:33.660 --> 00:48:42.540 Stephen Holgate: So that's changed and there's one example of a company that's that's shifted with that, but then, at the same time, yes, companies and their client facing people need to show that.
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:48.570 Stephen Holgate: they're understanding they're empathetic they're they're truly wanting to to relate to the company.
00:48:49.320 --> 00:49:03.330 Stephen Holgate: But you know the reality is if sales aren't being made then staff are being laid off and staff are taking fellows and staff are in more difficult position so sales people have a least I feel a responsibility.
00:49:04.290 --> 00:49:10.110 Stephen Holgate: To keep the company they work for a float in part that's actually a burden, I feel, quite openly.
00:49:11.610 --> 00:49:16.980 Stephen Holgate: So there is that sort of thing if we're willing to be respectful to clients wanting to be respectful to others who have human beings in those client companies.
00:49:17.220 --> 00:49:24.300 Stephen Holgate: And also, knowing that perhaps some employees back at our company rely on us winning some business to keep them employed.
00:49:25.140 --> 00:49:33.870 Stephen Holgate: So I think that the challenge that a lot of sales people have felt over 12 months is is trying to get that balance for their own livelihood to the company's livelihood being respectful the clients.
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.580 Stephen Holgate: and balancing that in a compassionate caring understanding way.
00:49:39.390 --> 00:49:52.920 Graham Dobbin: How did I know you lead a team of trainers to train all these thousands of sales people with an annual basis, how is your approach changed to walk you know the companies are needing where the companies are seeing also what the sales people need.
00:49:54.450 --> 00:50:02.760 Stephen Holgate: And it's interesting because our philosophy around how we train people and the companies that would choose to partner with us buy into this philosophy is about.
00:50:03.150 --> 00:50:12.150 Stephen Holgate: building relationships are collaborating with companies having a partnership approach consulting to hear their needs, before presenting solutions so.
00:50:13.710 --> 00:50:20.340 Stephen Holgate: Actually, that hasn't really changed because I guess, we should do those things, whether there's a pandemic or not we should do other things in economic downturn, or not.
00:50:22.710 --> 00:50:30.180 Stephen Holgate: I guess where the differences, where the role between us as external trainers versus their sales directors on a day to day level.
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:44.400 Stephen Holgate: We can train them in all the skills to be collaborative relationship builders authentic problem solvers all of those things that sales directors day to day, they need to hold them accountable to a sense of urgency, make it happen.
00:50:45.750 --> 00:50:49.710 Stephen Holgate: Bringing the line, so I think i've been the difference of.
00:50:50.850 --> 00:50:55.320 Stephen Holgate: till this time to training, but knowing there is that extra pressure in the marketplace as well.
00:50:55.620 --> 00:51:00.570 Graham Dobbin: You mentioned problem solvers three or four times in the last you know just the last older so.
00:51:01.080 --> 00:51:01.440 yeah.
00:51:02.910 --> 00:51:03.870 Graham Dobbin: And by that.
00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:05.130 it's.
00:51:06.270 --> 00:51:16.080 Stephen Holgate: Okay, I guess that's how I define sales let's go back to the example I use before, so the image we get a wolf of Wall Street and boiler room and glengarry Glen Ross and.
00:51:17.220 --> 00:51:20.910 Stephen Holgate: All of those is this salesperson push this product and investors you.
00:51:21.330 --> 00:51:32.100 Stephen Holgate: know I don't that's not what i'm saying good sales with lulu i'm now fortunate enough to be in some networking groups with top 1% of sales people for various companies it's been awesome speaking to that group of people.
00:51:32.370 --> 00:51:40.590 Stephen Holgate: Because the consistent theme is if you're in the top 1% of sales people in your particular company finance manufacturing pharmaceuticals blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
00:51:40.950 --> 00:51:50.310 Stephen Holgate: And if you're a problem solver problem solver relationship builder etc, etc, and the people i've spoken with in that position, who have achieved that sales success.
00:51:50.940 --> 00:52:00.540 Stephen Holgate: they'll say that their view is they need to understand clients problems and then help them be able to solve those problems and is always at two levels.
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:11.280 Stephen Holgate: And at the corporate level, so our company says, our This is our challenge, we need to grow our revenue, we need to improve improve employee engagement, we need to do whatever there's a problem that the company has.
00:52:11.640 --> 00:52:26.640 Stephen Holgate: That they might partner with a salesperson to solve but there's also a problem that the human being has that we're solving maybe the problem, the human being has is new to this company, I want to look good i'm overworked overstressed how just need somebody to unload my problems too.
00:52:27.990 --> 00:52:37.440 Stephen Holgate: And I see our role as salespeople is being problem solvers both to solve the problems of the company and to solve the problems of the human beings who were working with.
00:52:38.910 --> 00:52:46.920 Graham Dobbin: You don't want got a couple of minutes and less part, how did you build the trust let's just get right to how do you build the trust for somebody to trust you to be a problem solver.
00:52:48.690 --> 00:52:51.210 Stephen Holgate: And combination of different things.
00:52:53.160 --> 00:53:10.410 Stephen Holgate: That sound like this being our true self Okay, what does that really mean, and I think this mistake some sales people make is wearing a mask oh i'm now in the meeting I, I have a process to follow if there's five steps that are sold on various us five steps one through five is step one.
00:53:11.370 --> 00:53:12.420 Stephen Holgate: wow that's.
00:53:12.990 --> 00:53:14.700 Stephen Holgate: Intense and.
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:23.190 Stephen Holgate: Sales hopefully we've got frameworks and guidelines in mind, and we know we want to weave in a client success story and okay cool and.
00:53:23.700 --> 00:53:37.800 Stephen Holgate: But not in a structured process see sort of way I think people see it naturally when we are asking questions listening showing vulnerability letting people know where we're not perfect and.
00:53:39.270 --> 00:53:39.960 Stephen Holgate: We can't.
00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:49.140 Stephen Holgate: solve all their problems here's where we can help them I think it's also knowing when to say no to a client i've had experiences where clients come to me and say hey Steve.
00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:55.770 Stephen Holgate: yeah we know we've got the budget for this can you guys help us on this training that we need and i've looked at him for.
00:53:57.690 --> 00:54:01.890 Stephen Holgate: Thanks, I mean I could take your money but actually we're not the best company to do that.
00:54:02.490 --> 00:54:09.030 Stephen Holgate: there's another company that would do that better I just being open to say that keep using us for xyz eccentric cetera et cetera.
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:19.350 Stephen Holgate: Maybe there's somebody else that can do that, so that being willing to have those real conversations if we if we miss a small amount of business but we've still got the partnership we're good.
00:54:19.770 --> 00:54:26.610 Graham Dobbin: It takes a lot of confidence to be able to do it, you, you mentioned vulnerability and that that tends to be certainly in sales almost cancer.
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:32.160 Graham Dobbin: In today is counter what we've been told what the perceptions are coming back to perception.
00:54:32.790 --> 00:54:44.580 Graham Dobbin: Because always coming full circle here we're coming back to perception we're coming back to what I mentioned about the owners of small businesses feeling that they almost have to get into a role to sell rather than be themselves yeah.
00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:45.450 Stephen Holgate: stop that.
00:54:46.470 --> 00:54:58.260 Stephen Holgate: This is a small businesses stop doing that and he people people buy from people who are authentic and real and the show vulnerability and have that connection, they don't want.
00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:01.800 Stephen Holgate: The gimmick they don't want a brochure if if if.
00:55:02.190 --> 00:55:09.090 Stephen Holgate: it's saying exactly the right words, one after the other, with exactly was what people bought then then your marketing brochure on your website, we do enough.
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:21.780 Stephen Holgate: If a salesperson is there, they want to see if they if they're willing to entertain a conversation with you on zoom on the phone whatever they're willing to do that, then it's because they want to have a human being, be human with them.
00:55:22.140 --> 00:55:35.010 Stephen Holgate: And to slightly circle back to the question on covert what's changed yet people need that even more now than it's ever been it's like wow working from home or your kids walk in the room, and while your puppy needs a walk and while that something else is happening.
00:55:36.660 --> 00:55:37.650 Stephen Holgate: We need to be there for them.
00:55:38.130 --> 00:55:47.250 Graham Dobbin: it's interesting because I think the word for the last year has actually tolerance we've all become more tolerant because we just allow you know, but no being invited into people's homes to sell.
00:55:47.730 --> 00:56:00.060 Graham Dobbin: Right we've only got a couple minutes left i'm really keen just really quickly what the traits that you would say a sales person, a really successful good salesperson needs now just two or three.
00:56:01.620 --> 00:56:05.220 Stephen Holgate: belief in yourself and in your product if you don't believe in the product that you're selling.
00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:13.230 Stephen Holgate: Get out on a different company on a company you believe in, you can sell their product to me for Dale Carnegie I can i'm talking about stuff I believe in.
00:56:13.650 --> 00:56:19.080 Stephen Holgate: So that's number one number two another trait would be being a problem solver spoken about that.
00:56:19.770 --> 00:56:28.590 Stephen Holgate: Number three being authentic lean and authentic includes leaning into what makes us different I lean into being an Australian in New York.
00:56:29.490 --> 00:56:38.340 Stephen Holgate: Are all the listeners if there's things that makes you you that makes you unique leaning be that amplifiers and that's how we stand out from the crowd.
00:56:39.510 --> 00:56:44.820 Graham Dobbin: Stephen Holgate Thank you thanks for some of the insights there, thank you for listening in.
00:56:45.240 --> 00:56:56.550 Graham Dobbin: and getting involved with it you'll be listening to the mind behind I sales this evening live on talk radio dot nyc my name is Graham dobbin join us again next Thursday, you can get a catch up on this you just come in at the end.
00:56:57.060 --> 00:57:06.120 Graham Dobbin: Through spotify and the podcast platforms, thank you to some leibovich our producer will see you next week good night.
00:57:07.710 --> 00:57:08.370 Stephen Holgate: Thanks everyone.