Rediscovering New York

Tuesday, August 31, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/08/31 - Hard Cover New York: How some great authors conceived of and portrayed the City

Facebook Live Video from 2021/08/31 - Hard Cover New York: How some great authors conceived of and portrayed the City


2021/08/31 - Hard Cover New York: How some great authors conceived of and portrayed the City

[NEW EPISODE] Hard Cover New York: How some great authors conceived of and portrayed the City

On this week’s show we will explore how some of America’s great authors thought of and portrayed New York City in their writing.  

My solo guest will be Rediscovering New York regular and the show’s Special Consultant, David Griffin, Founder and CEO of Landmark Branding.  

Tune in for this fascinating conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Jeff introduces the topic of today's episode about portrayals of New York by authors, as well as introduces the guest for today’s episode David Griffin, the Founder and CEO of Landmark Branding. David retells how he became interested in architecture history, as well as what drew him to New York architecture history specifically. David brings up how living history can be experienced through architecture and buildings. Jeff outlines how the two have picked out five specific authors and their depictions of New York, and that this might be part one of two depending on how many authors they get through in today’s episode. The two start off with F. Scott Fitzgerald and his most well known novel The Great Gatsby. David explains what about The Great Gatsby makes it a quintessential New York book. He continues to explain how New York City is not described in concrete terms within the novel, in part as the book is a Long Island book rather than a New York City, but it is still a quintessential New York book, for the themes of the book. Throughout the book Fitzgerald focuses on how those who live in the suburbs on Long Island interact with the city. David continues to explain how the Plaza Hotel is the New York Landmark that Fitzgerald makes use of the most. The two discuss other New York landmarks that can be found throughout The Great Gatsby.

Segment 2

Jeff and David discuss the valley of ashes within The Great Gatsby, and why Fitzgerald might have included it as much as he did within the novel. David explains the different motifs and symbols found within the valley of ashes, and how this scene is written poetically. The two continue to talk about the real life version of the valley of ashes, which is an ash dump in Corona, NY. Jeff and David continue on to discuss other aspects of New York that Fitzgerald portrays in The Great Gatsby, including what is now considered Washington Heights where the character Mabel lived in. David brings up the original cover of the novel that depicted Coney Island, which Fitzgerald wasn’t happy with as he removed the section of the novel that included Coney Island, and the history behind the cover that lead to Fitzgerlad keeping that cover.

Segment 3

Jeff starts off the segment by thanking the sponsors, as well as requesting the listeners to feel free to reach out to him about the show. Jeff and David discuss David’s recent articles that he has had published in different publications. The two then begin discussing the second author they had picked out, Joseph Mitchell. David explains that Joseph Mitchell was an important figure in New York writing and journalism, as he was one of the first writers for the New Yorker. Mitchell was an important figure in the change of how journalism was written through the school of writing that diverged from how the high end newspapers of London wrote their articles. David explains Mitchell’s journey through journalism and how he worked for the New Yorker up until his death. Jeff and David discuss the kinds of things that Mitchell wrote, and how he was most interested in the outcasts of New York rather than the glitz and glam other journalists focused on. They also discuss Mitchell’s later years of writing

Segment 4

The two discuss the other aspects of Mitchell’s life, including the play he wrote for Broadway and the different societies he was a part of. David goes in depth about the racist slur for the Roma people, who Mitchell was sympathetic for but continued to use that slur. The two also discuss Mitchell’s love for the waterfront, and his time spent there and how much effort he put towards the preservation of the waterfront and the architecture there. The two end the episode with discussing how Mitchell’s love of New York City impacted his writing style.


00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:57.240 Jeff Goodman: Hello everyone, welcome to our listeners in the big apple from across the US and around the world i'm Jeff Goodman and you've tuned into rediscovering New York.

00:02:58.110 --> 00:03:03.780 Jeff Goodman: professionally i'm a real estate broker with brown hair Stevens, but our show is not about real estate.

00:03:04.470 --> 00:03:11.700 Jeff Goodman: rediscovering New York as a weekly program celebrating New York City, its history, its texture its vibe its uniqueness.

00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:22.380 Jeff Goodman: And we do with through interviews with historians local business owners nonprofit organizations preservationists local musicians and artists and the occasional elected official.

00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:32.370 Jeff Goodman: On some shows we bring in individual New York neighborhood to life we explore that neighborhoods history and its current energy what makes that New York neighborhood special.

00:03:33.450 --> 00:03:41.460 Jeff Goodman: and on some shows like tonight's we showcase and interesting and vital color of the city and its history that's not focused on one particular neighborhood.

00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:51.480 Jeff Goodman: On prior episodes you've heard us talk about topics as interesting and illuminating as American presidents who came from lived in or who had some interesting history here in the city.

00:03:52.020 --> 00:04:02.940 Jeff Goodman: we've looked at the history of women activists and the women's suffrage movement we've looked at the history of different immigrant communities, including those people who were brought here and slaved we've looked at.

00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:12.720 Jeff Goodman: The history of the city's LGBT community and the gay rights movement we've explored the history of bicycles and cycling, we just had the all borrow bike ride this past weekend.

00:04:13.290 --> 00:04:23.940 Jeff Goodman: we've looked at punk in opera those were separate shows, by the way, we've explored public library systems or train stations public art and even some of our bridges, just to name a few.

00:04:25.230 --> 00:04:34.710 Jeff Goodman: After the broadcast each show is available on podcast you can catch us on apple spotify Amazon podcasts stitcher Google podcast and some other services.

00:04:35.430 --> 00:04:50.880 Jeff Goodman: Tonight we are going to have one of our special programs we're not going to look at a neighborhood but we're going to look at writers and about how they portrayed New York, the title of this show number 127 is hard covered New York how some great authors portrayed life in the city.

00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:59.280 Jeff Goodman: My only guest tonight is no stranger to rediscovering New York, he is David Griffin, who is also the program special consultant.

00:05:00.150 --> 00:05:06.240 Jeff Goodman: David is a lifelong architectural enthusiasts providing creative sales enhancing services for the national real estate community.

00:05:06.780 --> 00:05:10.110 Jeff Goodman: When he's not talking about authors and other great things about the city.

00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:19.350 Jeff Goodman: David is the founder and CEO of landmark branding his clients include architects and design firms in addition to developers brokers and marketing companies.

00:05:20.070 --> 00:05:28.080 Jeff Goodman: David like me hosts his own events or is it's cold room at the top it's co hosted with Jennifer wallace of nascent or New York.

00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:33.690 Jeff Goodman: it's the only ongoing networking series and real estate to feature tourists of manhattan's greatest buildings.

00:05:34.590 --> 00:05:45.540 Jeff Goodman: David has published his latest blog was called every building on fifth the documents every single building on fifth avenue from Washington square park right up to where fifth avenue ends at the Harlem river in Harlem.

00:05:46.320 --> 00:06:00.630 Jeff Goodman: His writing has appeared in real estate weekly metropolis dwell and the national trust preservation magazine and David how many times have I said it, but I mean it every single time a hearty welcome back to rediscovering New York so glad you joined us tonight.

00:06:02.760 --> 00:06:03.360 Jeff Goodman: you're muted.

00:06:04.950 --> 00:06:05.430 Jeff Goodman: Sorry.

00:06:07.140 --> 00:06:10.440 David V. Griffin: own thanks Jeff it's great to be here, as always.

00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:17.940 Jeff Goodman: it's always great to have you you haven't been on the show in a couple of months, and our listenership grows and changes so i'd like to ask you.

00:06:18.540 --> 00:06:26.070 Jeff Goodman: How you got interested mostly an architectural history, which is what we talked about but in New York City history and things about New York in particular.

00:06:26.700 --> 00:06:35.460 David V. Griffin: Well, my my siblings and I were the first actual ever child employees of the New York state parks department.

00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:44.940 David V. Griffin: We were costumed interpreters, we were small children at a site called old bethpage village respiration which is out on long island in Nassau county.

00:06:45.450 --> 00:06:54.810 David V. Griffin: And it was one of my favorite things to do when I was a kid was to go out there and participate in certain festivals and programs that that site would have.

00:06:55.140 --> 00:07:05.730 David V. Griffin: We would actually wear clothing, that was a replica of the 1850s clothing and we will demonstrate toys and games and things of that nature.

00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:17.400 David V. Griffin: And we actually have the chance, several times to stay overnight, and some of the old historic houses that make up the park, they were they were sort of.

00:07:18.210 --> 00:07:28.200 David V. Griffin: Their friends as places where people could could spend the night, and I just got very, very interested in the idea of buildings being that old and that kind of the fact that it was a form of different time.

00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:35.010 David V. Griffin: And it just something really stayed with me I think throughout my entire you know childhood and adulthood.

00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:47.820 David V. Griffin: And then you know I went to vassar as you and I took a double major in English at an art history and my focus was on architecture, I could always find that fascinating.

00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:59.430 David V. Griffin: And I really feel that you know buildings are history in a way that so many other things are not because they can be you know 50 years old 100 years old, they can be 500 years old.

00:07:59.970 --> 00:08:06.990 David V. Griffin: they're still used in a sense, you know they haven't become artifacts they're not things under bell glass jars.

00:08:07.350 --> 00:08:18.660 David V. Griffin: There things that are there and are expected to kind of repeat a return of you know profit or or serve a function and That to me is you know the essence of history living history is.

00:08:19.170 --> 00:08:28.350 David V. Griffin: Through architecture, I think there's nothing else that kind of provides that sense of a link with how we have developed, who we are and what we're doing within buildings.

00:08:29.550 --> 00:08:31.440 Jeff Goodman: Well, I have two words for that here here.

00:08:32.730 --> 00:08:33.060 Jeff Goodman: today.

00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:49.620 Jeff Goodman: David it's it's kind of fitting tonight that we're going to be talking about authors in New York, and I want to tell our listeners that we've identified five authors, that we want to talk about we may actually make this a part one of a two part.

00:08:51.120 --> 00:09:01.500 Jeff Goodman: program depending on how the conversation goes so just wanted to give everyone, an idea that we may not cover everything that we want to we usually don't get to doing that, but especially.

00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:08.910 Jeff Goodman: With talking about some authors, who have portrayed New York we're actually thinking about it back continuing the conversation in the future.

00:09:10.050 --> 00:09:16.290 Jeff Goodman: I think it's very fitting that we start off with an author, who wrote, one of the most quintessential books about New York.

00:09:16.890 --> 00:09:20.010 Jeff Goodman: that's kind of historical but I dare say that it's also.

00:09:20.550 --> 00:09:32.790 Jeff Goodman: On the mark in terms of its verisimilitude and his portrayal of human beings and different kinds of people rich working class jealous good hearted innocent guilty those who lived in rich suburbs.

00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:44.670 Jeff Goodman: And the those who may have lived in the underbelly of an urban experience and i'm speaking about F Scott Fitzgerald and his novel his great novel the great gatsby.

00:09:45.270 --> 00:09:55.080 Jeff Goodman: Yes, before we talk about individual things about it um you want as a whole in entirety what what made this a quintessential book about life in New York and.

00:09:55.650 --> 00:10:14.850 David V. Griffin: I think the thing that really makes this book magical is the fact that it encapsulates a world without getting bogged down in too many details actually I think you know people respond to the richness of gatsby's pros but it's highly elliptical it's a it's a prose of insinuation.

00:10:16.020 --> 00:10:23.850 David V. Griffin: There is nothing really in the book that describes New York in concrete terms, and you know Obviously this also novel of long island.

00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:33.090 David V. Griffin: very much an awful long island, more so than it is York City, but New York City is there it's at the end of the island it's the things producing this type of lifestyle.

00:10:33.540 --> 00:10:45.600 David V. Griffin: And I remember reading this book and I have read other books from this period, now there are a few others that almost do this but gatsby is such an incredible book because.

00:10:46.110 --> 00:11:03.090 David V. Griffin: He goes for something timeless he doesn't lead you to the period that he's writing about he Wednesday to an idea that was very prevalent in the in the period that he's writing about and that's that with great wealth comes great irresponsibility.

00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.640 David V. Griffin: Not me that's the story of New York, in a nutshell, unfortunately.

00:11:09.540 --> 00:11:11.430 Jeff Goodman: Especially new wealth, without mentioning any one.

00:11:11.430 --> 00:11:11.910 Jeff Goodman: Particular.

00:11:12.390 --> 00:11:13.980 David V. Griffin: Yes, without mentioning any one are.

00:11:16.230 --> 00:11:19.290 David V. Griffin: They they are, they are their name is legion, as you know.

00:11:19.950 --> 00:11:32.550 David V. Griffin: But it's sort of it's very interesting because you know I I look at that novel and I just think you know if you really just updated a few of the things technologically and maybe you pushed East and West and East East Hampton in westhampton.

00:11:33.780 --> 00:11:39.330 David V. Griffin: You can write this novel and he said it in this time our time and it would make just as much sense.

00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:40.950 Jeff Goodman: Great naked little neck even.

00:11:42.030 --> 00:11:50.910 Jeff Goodman: To me, you know, even though it does cover long island and as well as part of long island, the city and as we'll talk about later, when we talk about another one of our authors ED white.

00:11:51.300 --> 00:11:57.870 Jeff Goodman: Part of the city is very much intertwined into into the life of the suburbs and people who live in certain suburbs, who.

00:11:58.230 --> 00:12:01.170 Jeff Goodman: Is the Center of their lives, is also the city is also in New York City.

00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:08.910 David V. Griffin: Yes, well there is that wonderful you know series of scenes both in maples apartment upon I believe 145th street.

00:12:09.270 --> 00:12:15.090 David V. Griffin: And then the scenes at the Plaza hotel and possibly at the Plaza hotel is really the only New York City landmark.

00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:24.870 David V. Griffin: That is really mentioned in the great gatsby everything else is just sort of there it's like Oh well, the train station, the jewelry shop the restaurant that this that the other thing so.

00:12:25.410 --> 00:12:36.120 David V. Griffin: The Plaza we're gonna if we get through the material, you want to get through time we may not, but in future we're going to be talking about the Plaza the different contexts, but it's interesting to see how that was very much.

00:12:36.660 --> 00:12:45.270 David V. Griffin: kind of a hallmark I think for Fitzgerald of the New York experience shoulders on a native new yorker you know so he stayed at the Plaza hotel.

00:12:46.110 --> 00:12:54.210 David V. Griffin: You know, many times, you know, during his life, and I think that that was kind of the the be all end all of the.

00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:05.370 David V. Griffin: The New York experience for people who are not rooted in the city when he shows us the characters converging at the Plaza for cocktails he's suggesting that, even though they do live quote unquote in New York.

00:13:06.090 --> 00:13:18.480 David V. Griffin: They live quote unquote a long island, this is their their their their space, this is there, Peter Tara this is their new philly area, this is their place where they go, you know drink cocktails get messed up and.

00:13:19.770 --> 00:13:23.460 David V. Griffin: it's it's a very specific environment.

00:13:24.300 --> 00:13:25.770 Jeff Goodman: And during prohibition We might add.

00:13:26.130 --> 00:13:34.200 Jeff Goodman: which was also very much a very, very New York, it was prohibition everywhere, but, but you know New York has such a such a rich history of prohibition.

00:13:34.650 --> 00:13:46.230 Jeff Goodman: David one of the most memorable things for me about the great gatsby and the thing that that lingers in my head more than the description of any other part of New York, except maybe the Plaza which I love.

00:13:47.640 --> 00:14:00.150 Jeff Goodman: The valley of ashes, and you know he talks about that, and he talks about the number of times in his book what's the significance of the valley of actions, and you know what is it where is it what What was it about.

00:14:00.510 --> 00:14:10.290 David V. Griffin: The thing that really was remarkable to me, you know as a reading the book, but also, you know growing older and learning more about New York yesterday was realizing that what he describes what appears to be.

00:14:10.650 --> 00:14:19.830 David V. Griffin: fantastical and you know I am going to read the opening quote because it is it's that good it deserves to be heard in the context of any discussion of it.

00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:34.080 David V. Griffin: So he describes a fantastic farm where ashes row like week ridges and hills and grotesque gardens where ashes take the form of houses and chimneys and rising spoke.

00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:45.210 David V. Griffin: And finally, with a transcendent effort of men who move dimly and already crumbling the powdery air occasionally a line of grey cars crawls along and invisible track.

00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:58.410 David V. Griffin: gives out a ghastly creek and comes to rest and immediately the ashtray men's warm up with lead in spades and stir up an impenetrable cloud which spans their OPS or operations on your site.

00:14:59.430 --> 00:15:10.680 David V. Griffin: And the thing that's really remarkable is that at the time that Fitzgerald was writing this was a real place this was a huge garbage dump.

00:15:11.250 --> 00:15:32.340 David V. Griffin: It was privately owned and it was a place where the ashes of New York City were delivered during the time that gets me is writing of which is the 1920s oil heating was pretty much something that only very wealthy people it wasn't you know prevalent people hated buildings by coal.

00:15:33.540 --> 00:15:46.170 David V. Griffin: Imagine the skies over New York City heated by call the smog must have been absolutely incredible and every day, you had to take out a hamper of the sender's and give it to them.

00:15:46.770 --> 00:15:56.190 David V. Griffin: And so the city was sort of like there were there wasn't actually enough space in the official New York City dump of the time and we're talking Staten island here kids.

00:15:56.970 --> 00:16:12.720 David V. Griffin: For all these ashes, so they started farming them out to private management and the largest one of the largest private managers in New York at the time was the company that handled what became the value of ashes, which is hunts point in Queens and.

00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.900 Jeff Goodman: Queens hunts point a college point hunts point isn't.

00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:16.620 Jeff Goodman: isn't the bronx.

00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:20.190 David V. Griffin: Oh sorry, yes, no corona crime and.

00:16:21.450 --> 00:16:31.410 David V. Griffin: So this became this this like amazing kind of environment and you know Fitzgerald obviously observed it from you know driving past it.

00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:41.430 David V. Griffin: And you know symbolically in the novel you know, some people have argued that the value of as just seems to mark the separation between a kind of an older American aristocracy.

00:16:42.810 --> 00:16:46.590 David V. Griffin: You know which you could argue that you can, and this represent represent.

00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:58.800 David V. Griffin: You know, basically men tenacious people as they are, and the new urban American, so we have kind of the the fantasy of aristocratic life on one side.

00:16:59.280 --> 00:17:05.070 David V. Griffin: And we have New York City, on the other, and in between them a veil that really separates them and serves as a demarcation.

00:17:05.760 --> 00:17:15.840 David V. Griffin: Is this kind of sense of a veil horror it's like a ring of dante's inferno in fact that separates the halves from the have nots.

00:17:16.320 --> 00:17:31.110 David V. Griffin: And the rural fantasy the pastoral fantasy, which is incredibly increasingly artificial in the context of a novel from the hellish reality of the city itself in terms of the criminal impulses the funding, all of this.

00:17:31.620 --> 00:17:39.690 David V. Griffin: So it's like there's no, you have to pass through this zone of almost Meyer like biblical excrement in order to get.

00:17:40.170 --> 00:17:53.250 David V. Griffin: To the world of gatsby and I think that you know Fitzgerald wants you to wrote to remember that this is a two way street now he's describing it if you see it from gatsby's to New York, you see it from New York to gatsby's you're still seeing it and.

00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:59.730 Jeff Goodman: I want to stay on the topic of the valley of ashes in the great gatsby, but we need to take a short break.

00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:12.000 Jeff Goodman: we're going to take a short break everyone, and when we come back we're going to continue our conversation with David Griffin and hard covered New York how some great authors portrayed life in the city and the city will be back in a moment.

00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:29.160 Jeff Goodman: we're back to rediscovering New York and or episode in hardcover New York.

00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:40.320 Jeff Goodman: How some great authors portrayed life in the city and also New York, in general, my guest my solo guest is David Griffin of landmark branding David is also the special consultant for the show.

00:20:40.860 --> 00:20:51.570 Jeff Goodman: And he's been on many, many times, thankfully, David continuing our discussion about the valley of ashes in the great gatsby by F Scott Fitzgerald.

00:20:52.050 --> 00:21:09.210 Jeff Goodman: um do you think he included the valley of ashes so profoundly only because it portrayed the difference in the portal between different kinds of people or was this something very significant about New York and about the city that he that that Fitzgerald also wanted to portray.

00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:19.620 David V. Griffin: I think you know you were talking about a novel where people realize their dreams all and have them crumble away in front of them, I mean.

00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:33.540 David V. Griffin: Yes, be works and works and works and works to kind of create an aristocratic fantasy, from which to give them pursue the love of his life days cannon um you know anybody.

00:21:34.470 --> 00:21:39.900 David V. Griffin: The thing that is really remarkable about this book for me and said it's also my can you look at this new thing, how can you make this work.

00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:53.850 David V. Griffin: How can you be this dumb she's not gonna leave leave her husband what doesn't matter she doesn't love you she doesn't love him either she loves she loves herself she loves anybody she's you know the the quintessential.

00:21:54.600 --> 00:22:03.420 David V. Griffin: You know self involved narcissist none of this is going to make any sense and it's all going to be a disaster, you know and it turns out to be an even bigger disaster that I think, as it feels.

00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:13.110 David V. Griffin: I think what what Fitzgerald is sort of saying is that perhaps there's no way to achieve dreams that don't.

00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:23.970 David V. Griffin: Have the danger of failing it's like and there's a thought on the part of some critics and semi enters that he was critiquing the idea of the American dream itself was saying, yes, you think.

00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:41.730 David V. Griffin: That you know you can flee the city and go into this kind of suburban you know archetype and you know what is all of long island about 100 million thousand little gatsby estates all one after the other, when you're down to it, a fantasy of like you know living out among the trees lawns.

00:22:42.990 --> 00:23:02.340 David V. Griffin: It all turns to ashes, I think, and fitzgerald's it's, it is a sterile world it's a world in which things decay and that wonderful kind of idea about the people with the spades stirring up an impenetrable cloud which screens their operations from our site that is a burial but.

00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:12.120 David V. Griffin: Those are grading symbolically, so I think he's saying that you know dreams have come here to die in a sense.

00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:20.760 David V. Griffin: And it's paired with that idea of the imperishable and very fresh what he calls the green breast of America, but the settlers per se.

00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:34.080 David V. Griffin: Is the kind of you know, the richness of the sponsor that and I think Fitzgerald says that has been lost, that is spoiled that has been transformed that has been turned artifice.

00:23:34.830 --> 00:23:47.550 David V. Griffin: That is now basically an archaic fantasy and it's one that's destructive and consumes the people that fall for it, I mean gatsby his dad at the end of the novel sorry spoilers.

00:23:50.340 --> 00:23:54.360 David V. Griffin: For the 16 year old, who happens to be listening to this and the point is.

00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.530 Jeff Goodman: By by 16 they should have read the great gatsby in freshman year and this will.

00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.060 David V. Griffin: be right.

00:24:01.350 --> 00:24:09.510 David V. Griffin: I mean the phrase ashes to ashes dust to dust I think it's also a real tribute to to fitzgerald's talent as a novelist really as an artist.

00:24:09.990 --> 00:24:19.500 David V. Griffin: But he's able to take a scene like this that should be completely kind of like nearly went there, I mean a valley of ashes you're going to be bad obvious about things.

00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:29.220 David V. Griffin: And he makes it this kind of lyrical thing he doesn't get introduced to something that should be like an animal dropping on your head and it took me.

00:24:29.850 --> 00:24:42.450 David V. Griffin: Many years to see the reality of what he was going for I think with that and why that was such an important place for him in the context of New York City in the context with the people that he was writing.

00:24:43.470 --> 00:24:52.980 Jeff Goodman: Well let's talk about the real value of ashes for a moment, because it was part of New York that's the the dump in corona uh what's the history of the dumping corona and what happened to it.

00:24:54.060 --> 00:25:02.580 David V. Griffin: Well, the value of ashes was a marsland of approximately 3000 acres that surrounded the mouth of what is called the flushing river.

00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:15.930 David V. Griffin: In the north shore of long island and the town and portion of Queens called flushing is named after the river, you know which flushes out from a number of central veils.

00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:26.730 David V. Griffin: The major for the water in the little river is actually titled though it's not fresh primarily, it is an inlet what is known as flushing Bay, which is itself an army's forever.

00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:33.030 David V. Griffin: Now originally these Martians were extraordinarily beautiful, of course, and they were also biologically significant.

00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:45.270 David V. Griffin: But by the 1920s when gatsby was written they had been entirely contaminated by urban garbage the marshes we're also the final resting place for the ashes, that I mentioned.

00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:57.090 David V. Griffin: And at that time, as well as i've said the city's on dumping grounds are insufficient so pay private operators, including the brooklyn ash removal company, which was the one that sort of.

00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:10.800 David V. Griffin: was running cron at the time, other privilege of dumping on the property and there was a chief executive officer john a quote unquote fish hooks McCarthy, which might give you some ideas for judgments characters.

00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:29.640 David V. Griffin: And he was referred to a sat under a beach umbrella on an old rocking chair and personally tallied every single truckload is it arrived, the national company also allow people to scavenge on down for items that have been thrown in the trash cans they waited for the removal trucks.

00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:34.410 Jeff Goodman: I asked cans that's where that I haven't heard that phrase in a long time asked hands.

00:26:34.770 --> 00:26:36.270 David V. Griffin: As opposed to trash can.

00:26:36.360 --> 00:26:36.750 Jeff Goodman: or exam.

00:26:38.610 --> 00:26:39.390 David V. Griffin: So.

00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:51.090 David V. Griffin: Basically, this was like a huge place for all this rubbish to come, arrest and, ironically, very description of the valley in the novel gatsby.

00:26:51.840 --> 00:27:08.430 David V. Griffin: Which some critics have said was intended by Fitzgerald as a symbol of an unchanging fate and other words he felt the add the valley of ashes would never become fertile remains sterile That was the the The end result of the American dream um.

00:27:08.670 --> 00:27:10.620 Jeff Goodman: But Fitzgerald was wrong because it's.

00:27:11.610 --> 00:27:11.940 Jeff Goodman: All.

00:27:12.030 --> 00:27:13.920 Jeff Goodman: It did become food and, in many ways.

00:27:14.190 --> 00:27:32.670 David V. Griffin: Robert Moses, who was the parks, Commissioner, was responsive to Fitzgerald sort of description and he said in 1934 quote read gatsby remained a good your and even after the depression has leveled off the moraine of gold deposited on the North shore and the delirious 20.

00:27:33.690 --> 00:27:45.420 David V. Griffin: Now Moses, is a person about whom I think a lot of people are really very rightfully ambivalent but he did open up the the plans for what is now flushing meadows park.

00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:54.480 David V. Griffin: And he did that in a very you know kind of roundabout way when he realized he couldn't get the city on board for a park.

00:27:54.840 --> 00:28:04.920 David V. Griffin: You couldn't get the city on for to the ashes removal he could get the city on board for potential world's fair, which was held in flushing meadows park.

00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:16.470 David V. Griffin: And that is the thing that was the progenitor for the cleaning up of the valley of ashes, and if you go out there now you find the flushing meadows park is actually larger than central park.

00:28:17.100 --> 00:28:28.050 David V. Griffin: It has two lakes, one of which is sailboats and art museum of golf course the zoo the national tennis Center and then your call science.

00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:39.360 David V. Griffin: So, plus the remains of the 1964 world's fair then of people are trying to restore some of those buildings in New York state for going by Philip Johnson particular is kind of seen as a.

00:28:39.690 --> 00:28:54.180 David V. Griffin: Last landmark of modernism and maybe rejuvenated at some point in the future, but yeah you go out there now, and I think Fitzgerald would be amazed and I think he'd be kind of impressed to in a way, I think he'd be a little bit.

00:28:55.260 --> 00:28:56.130 David V. Griffin: Baby kind of.

00:28:58.260 --> 00:28:58.740 David V. Griffin: happy.

00:29:00.540 --> 00:29:06.090 Jeff Goodman: Well, the valley of ashes does have a happy ending well, it has a happy present it, hopefully, hopefully, will never end, you know.

00:29:07.980 --> 00:29:15.150 Jeff Goodman: What other aspects of New York did gatsby portray what were portrayed by Fitzgerald and gatsby.

00:29:16.020 --> 00:29:18.930 David V. Griffin: I mean, I think you have a sense of.

00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:30.330 David V. Griffin: mabel, who is the mistress of tron Buchanan as a kept woman, she has an apartment and now place that I think people would consider Washington heights.

00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:45.600 David V. Griffin: may have considered during the 60s and 70s Harlem um there's a sense that that's a place that is kind of well when he's talking about these buildings when they're relatively new that it's a he refers to the apartment building and she lives in as a.

00:29:47.010 --> 00:30:00.270 David V. Griffin: slab of white wedding cake and I checked on Google streets for the address where maples building may have been, and the buildings are actually aren't as fussy, I think, as he, as he describes them.

00:30:00.510 --> 00:30:06.570 Jeff Goodman: Well, I know a big thing that there's a hotel on 120 fifth and Adam clayton Powell boulevard is that.

00:30:07.620 --> 00:30:10.050 Jeff Goodman: You know it's gone through a number of iterations it's like.

00:30:10.560 --> 00:30:14.100 Jeff Goodman: 14 stories or something and it, you know when you said a white wedding cake that.

00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:16.830 Jeff Goodman: That that's what that's the image that comes to my mind.

00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:24.930 David V. Griffin: I think Fitzgerald made some assumptions about about places, but he also made assumptions about what people were willing to entertain about.

00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:40.710 David V. Griffin: So one interesting thing the the cover of the great gatsby very famous original cover of breakouts be shows a woman weeping and her tear becomes the green light off the dark have.

00:30:41.340 --> 00:30:59.460 David V. Griffin: off days is dark stuff these luminous eyes and, at the very bottom of the cover is this kind of hurricane of colored lights and those lights refer to a deleted part of the narrative where the characters not they go into New York and they don't go Applause

00:31:00.750 --> 00:31:04.140 David V. Griffin: In the very original draft of the breakouts be.

00:31:05.370 --> 00:31:16.170 David V. Griffin: gatsby and daisy and Tom and neck, though, and mabel, I think, maybe you know, maybe, whoever they are, in the very first round, they go to coney island.

00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:20.610 David V. Griffin: And so, when you see the the famous cover painting.

00:31:21.630 --> 00:31:29.940 David V. Griffin: Which is the first edition cover the lights on the foreground represent coney island and evidently Fitzgerald is a little bit unhappy about that.

00:31:30.570 --> 00:31:39.240 David V. Griffin: Anyway, he said to me, is there any way we can change the skyline instead which by the way, did not have most of the famous skyscrapers.

00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:44.460 David V. Griffin: 1929 a Chrysler building hadn't been built the empire state building have felt.

00:31:45.120 --> 00:31:53.130 David V. Griffin: There were a lot of tall buildings for a lot of very colorful buildings, but the the art DECO skyline that we try to think we associate with Kathy.

00:31:53.700 --> 00:32:12.150 David V. Griffin: Was not accept it didn't it didn't happen until a few years later um and the artist wrote him back and said, Mr Fitzgerald I understand you've taken out that chapter there's nothing set in coney island as I speak as a poor artist and a non new yorker for me all of New York is calling.

00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:18.780 David V. Griffin: And Fitzgerald said yeah you're right actually it is.

00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:25.380 David V. Griffin: coney island it's like it's a carnival it's a freak show it's a masquerade so so they kept it.

00:32:27.870 --> 00:32:32.190 Jeff Goodman: Well, and of course he but he did write about the Plaza in there were several scenes at the Plaza.

00:32:33.630 --> 00:32:39.030 Jeff Goodman: All right, David we're going to leave Fitzgerald in the great gatsby we're going to take a short break.

00:32:39.600 --> 00:32:46.890 Jeff Goodman: And when we come back we're going to speak about a couple of other authors, maybe more than a couple, but at the rate that we're going maybe only a couple.

00:32:47.490 --> 00:32:55.740 Jeff Goodman: On this episode called hard covered New York how some great authors portrayed life in the city and portrayed the city itself will be back in a moment.

00:32:56.490 --> 00:32:56.940 David V. Griffin: In a bit.

00:35:34.650 --> 00:35:36.390 Jeff Goodman: Are we on the air I didn't hear the music.

00:35:42.930 --> 00:35:58.680 Jeff Goodman: Okay, we are live well everyone welcome back to discovering New York it's like pavlov's dog you get used to a certain things and didn't have the music bringing those back, but we're back support for rediscovering New York comes from our sponsors.

00:35:59.970 --> 00:36:10.710 Jeff Goodman: To rock modi Morgan strategist at freedom mortgage for assistance in any kind of residential mortgage ciara can be reached at 718-210-1167.

00:36:12.450 --> 00:36:25.110 Jeff Goodman: and support also comes from Jacqueline hostage interior design specializing in residential and commercial renovation and decorating Jacqueline can be reached at 3474821 700.

00:36:26.130 --> 00:36:38.970 Jeff Goodman: You can like to show on Facebook and you can also follow me on instagram and Twitter my handles on all three are Jeff Goodman nyc us comments or questions or if you'd like to give her a mailing list, please email me Jeff at rediscovering New York ny saying.

00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:50.340 Jeff Goodman: One other note before we get back to David and hardcover New York, even though rediscovering New York is not sure about real estate when i'm not on the air, I am indeed a real estate agent now amazing city.

00:36:50.910 --> 00:36:58.080 Jeff Goodman: Where I help my clients buy sell lease and property, if you or someone you care about is considering a move into out of a within New York.

00:36:58.530 --> 00:37:05.940 Jeff Goodman: I would love to help you with all those real estate needs, you can reach me and my team at 646-306-4761.

00:37:06.660 --> 00:37:17.820 Jeff Goodman: our guests on the show is David Griffin David is the founder and CEO of landmark branding David before we go back to the authors let's talk about landmark branding for a moment for a moment what is landmark branding What do you do.

00:37:18.750 --> 00:37:28.140 David V. Griffin: Well Jeff landmark branding is my own business which i've had since 2013 where I provide marketing support for developers real estate brokers.

00:37:28.830 --> 00:37:39.180 David V. Griffin: designers architects and other real estate associated professionals, I do everything from websites and listings to VIP programming and tours.

00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:57.300 David V. Griffin: I have co hosted, as you mentioned, for many years, a portion of taking a loan to the Coleman but with the the talented and fabulous Jennifer wallace and her husband James wallace room at the top, which is a very special networking.

00:37:58.620 --> 00:38:07.290 David V. Griffin: sort of series of sessions, where we tore the historic skyscrapers of New York City no office foreign to them as we can, and then have as much campaign as.

00:38:09.660 --> 00:38:13.620 David V. Griffin: You mentioned my blog every building on fifth it's available on my website, which is.

00:38:13.830 --> 00:38:16.350 Jeff Goodman: A blog it's it's like page after page.

00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:17.760 Jeff Goodman: How many buildings, yes, and I know.

00:38:18.210 --> 00:38:35.430 David V. Griffin: It is it's been finished for a while, I would like to get back to it post cold it and start sort of revisiting certain places, but it turned out to be over 500 entries, and I think about 480 different buildings.

00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:39.690 David V. Griffin: And it's every single one of them from the Washington square arch all the way up to the.

00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:49.020 David V. Griffin: Harlem armory which is kind of amazing art DECO masterpiece, but I think, very few people know about well worth the well worth the visit.

00:38:49.590 --> 00:38:57.360 David V. Griffin: And currently I have been writing for numerous other magazines i've been writing for brown stoner i'm writing for a weekly i'm very proud.

00:38:57.720 --> 00:39:02.850 David V. Griffin: To have written another recent article for well for their website on an amazing.

00:39:03.570 --> 00:39:11.640 David V. Griffin: Absolutely amazing house out in Los Angeles designed by Chris schemes and Ben wallace very, very talented designers.

00:39:12.180 --> 00:39:19.770 David V. Griffin: them warmest as a designer christine's like attached to work with frank gehry very, very happy to have a chance to kind of feature bad and.

00:39:20.190 --> 00:39:27.390 David V. Griffin: yeah so looking forward to you know moving into the fall season of 2021 and then 2022 after that and.

00:39:28.110 --> 00:39:43.680 David V. Griffin: See what's what things will happen, I have a book project i'm working on which is on the history of the penthouse is an American architectural type so fingers crossed that got screen and we'll see what this the rest of this and the new your brain.

00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.070 Jeff Goodman: And if people want to get in touch with you how can they do that.

00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:51.150 David V. Griffin: My website is landmark

00:39:52.290 --> 00:40:01.890 David V. Griffin: website design i'm just going to give a quick shout out Tommy for corporate pounds pawn soup should have been doing that for a while, but yeah great great designer.

00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:14.760 David V. Griffin: And my email address is D Griffin at landmark branding calm and all the phone number and other relevant information on the website, as the link to the blog.

00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:24.960 Jeff Goodman: Well, the next author, I want to talk about David is probably not as well known as F Scott Fitzgerald and that's Joseph Mitchell, who was Joseph Mitchell.

00:40:25.620 --> 00:40:33.870 David V. Griffin: Joseph Mitchell isn't it really I think an incredible figure in the history of New York and the history of New York journalism.

00:40:34.290 --> 00:40:39.180 David V. Griffin: He was one of the earliest writers for the new yorker she was there during the House loss age.

00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:52.320 David V. Griffin: Which is one of the new yorker was first founded and he and several other really, really remarkable writers, including people like EB white who may be talking about later today, people like Janet flanner.

00:40:52.740 --> 00:41:06.000 David V. Griffin: um you know critics of that caliber created a kind of a house style that was very sort of dry and facts oriented was also light and very elegant and very involving and something.

00:41:06.180 --> 00:41:09.210 Jeff Goodman: elegant and involving and also sounds like a side of New York.

00:41:09.210 --> 00:41:10.230 Jeff Goodman: To yes.

00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:19.800 David V. Griffin: Exactly and it had kind of a terseness to it wasn't it wasn't the accepted newspaper speak of the great papers of London, for example.

00:41:20.460 --> 00:41:28.860 David V. Griffin: Where you know, there was a kind of a flower and so acclamation kind of went into things this was this was something that was a little bit more clipped a little bit more.

00:41:30.030 --> 00:41:32.190 David V. Griffin: Potentially it was something a little bit more.

00:41:34.080 --> 00:41:42.780 David V. Griffin: I don't know it was it was it was a type of writing that really seemed to capture a mood in a spirit that was new and that was being engendered by the fact.

00:41:44.160 --> 00:41:54.690 David V. Griffin: That it is the place that it was back then and justin Mitchell came to New York City in October of 1929 the day after the stock market crash.

00:41:55.530 --> 00:42:03.180 David V. Griffin: He came from a small town and southeastern North Carolina 21 years old, looking for a job as a newspaper reporter.

00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:14.910 David V. Griffin: He found some work as an apprentice crime reporter for a paper that was called the world, the world is the paper that it no longer exists, but has given its name to the world series.

00:42:15.210 --> 00:42:17.280 Jeff Goodman: didn't it didn't appeal to publish the world.

00:42:18.510 --> 00:42:19.740 David V. Griffin: I think a computer.

00:42:19.740 --> 00:42:21.060 Jeff Goodman: Was the publisher of the.

00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:29.040 David V. Griffin: world and it was it was for a time, a very famous building and had a landmark scat skyscraper down park grow which exists and.

00:42:30.120 --> 00:42:39.990 David V. Griffin: It was so it was a significant place to work he was a reporter and a feature writer for them and then the Herald Tribune, and the world telegram for eight years and then he went to the new yorker.

00:42:40.470 --> 00:42:51.210 David V. Griffin: And he remained at the new yorker until death on may 24 1996 at the age of 87 he always had an office in new yorker and he went there every day.

00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:57.090 David V. Griffin: So justin Mitchell was a person who created a kind of a sense of.

00:42:58.650 --> 00:43:12.480 David V. Griffin: sentence and paragraph, the author Salman Rushdie of the satanic verses of famous British author has called him the buried treasure of America fighting and partly I think it's as I for character.

00:43:13.830 --> 00:43:26.940 David V. Griffin: There that really kind of brought his writing to life Mitchell detailed eccentrics people of the street was someone who was not interested in high society per se, he wasn't interested in.

00:43:27.450 --> 00:43:31.860 David V. Griffin: Great men, he was interested in the people who are really kind of tooling around the edges.

00:43:32.370 --> 00:43:39.600 David V. Griffin: Of what was evolving to be both a very inclusive and yet at the same time, a very impersonal metropolis.

00:43:40.080 --> 00:43:49.680 David V. Griffin: And I think he read the freedoms alienation in a way that you know we associate more people like Andy warhol or jam, you know the superstars.

00:43:50.520 --> 00:43:58.170 David V. Griffin: People who are like the freaks and the outcasts but Mitchell wasn't about the kind of glamour the Andy warhol invested those people if.

00:43:58.590 --> 00:44:08.220 David V. Griffin: He was about a kind of quotidian reality and that's what makes him so special and that's what makes him so important for the school of writing book for the new yorker and I think for American literature as a whole.

00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:18.960 David V. Griffin: And he talked about people like, for example, common or Dutch the guy over 40 years made his living devoted his life to giving himself and annual ball.

00:44:21.540 --> 00:44:22.110 David V. Griffin: I mean.

00:44:22.140 --> 00:44:24.510 Jeff Goodman: You know, I would like to give myself an annual bottle I.

00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:25.860 Jeff Goodman: You know.

00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:29.370 David V. Griffin: We could go there, this is a family Program.

00:44:32.700 --> 00:44:44.610 David V. Griffin: Arthur Samuel Cole born was a gentleman who Mitchell documented he devoted his entire life to the abolition of swearing in the city now damn if that wasn't.

00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.570 Jeff Goodman: Like a fool as fool's errand to me to try to borrow Square and the city.

00:44:49.410 --> 00:44:56.610 David V. Griffin: Most famously Joe gould now people here, probably may have heard of the there was a film I believe may call Joe gould secret.

00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:03.810 David V. Griffin: And it's based on a famous essay by Mitchell Joe gould was called Professor siegel.

00:45:04.410 --> 00:45:19.560 David V. Griffin: And he would often be seen in Greenwich village kind of flapping and squawking his way through the space and he was he claimed to be writing and oral history of Greenwich village and, ultimately, a city, something that he anticipated would be nine times the length of the Bible.

00:45:22.020 --> 00:45:33.270 David V. Griffin: spoilers spoilers and poor Joe gold evidently never put one single word paper about this oral history, although he did.

00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:40.320 David V. Griffin: To his credit, I think he did actually do a lot of the clinical research he meant to it just it never happened.

00:45:41.160 --> 00:46:00.690 David V. Griffin: um and then bizarrely enough having written this amazing essay on Joe gould a call Joe gould secret don't you revealed how he had left behind, not a word of this history Mitchell himself stopped publishing all together at the age of six.

00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:16.500 David V. Griffin: and the subsequent three decades of his life went into his office at usual at the new Barker on weekdays apparently working tirelessly on stories and you never submitted another word wow.

00:46:17.610 --> 00:46:25.920 David V. Griffin: Okay, and there was a very disturbing kind of interview that was done with his daughter, where she just didn't think he had been writing.

00:46:26.520 --> 00:46:37.860 David V. Griffin: And that the executive as well, who was Evan I don't know who the person was someone who was a strange from her family at that time had confiscated his work and was not.

00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:57.210 David V. Griffin: Releasing it so there may be this huge cash of work by Mitchell that we just don't know about, or he may be a little bit like what happened to I think you know, an author that I really greatly admired, who I would talk about another New York program jd salinger.

00:46:58.620 --> 00:47:10.110 David V. Griffin: who went into a kind of a bizarre chaos and now last published book, I think I, and you know what i'm I know I know I played this you know pocket best psychoanalysis here.

00:47:10.680 --> 00:47:19.410 David V. Griffin: that's not my position that's not what the show is about, but it started like it's interesting to meet these people and wonder, you know was there something where they fell into a kind of a depression.

00:47:19.890 --> 00:47:28.830 David V. Griffin: A state that they just couldn't lift themselves out of where they felt totally you know demoralized from old was somehow because it just seems so odd.

00:47:29.220 --> 00:47:42.750 David V. Griffin: That suddenly after the amount of writing that someone like Mitchell did and did the such reverb and such kind of effortless that it would all just turn off, so I don't know I think I suspect there's more of a story there.

00:47:43.050 --> 00:47:43.470 Jeff Goodman: For us.

00:47:43.530 --> 00:47:46.530 David V. Griffin: We may be able to discover, you know moving forward.

00:47:47.670 --> 00:47:51.960 Jeff Goodman: Well, David i'd like to continue our conversation about Joseph Mitchell, but we have to take a short break.

00:47:53.700 --> 00:48:01.230 Jeff Goodman: you're listening to rediscovering New York and this episode hardcover New York has some great authors portrayed life in the city will be back in a moment.

00:50:02.370 --> 00:50:06.780 Jeff Goodman: Hello everyone we're back to episode 127 of rediscovering new.

00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:19.110 Jeff Goodman: York and hardcover New York my guest is the amazing and indomitable David Griffin of landmark branding David is our solo guest tonight, and he was also the program special consultant.

00:50:19.770 --> 00:50:25.080 Jeff Goodman: Just an fyi to everyone we're going to continue this topic on another episode.

00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:35.070 Jeff Goodman: Because we're only getting two two of the five authors that we were going to talk about tonight because there's so much to talk about David, you are right, like all the time i'm concerned that we're going to run out of time and not.

00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:37.380 Jeff Goodman: And not.

00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:40.050 Jeff Goodman: have enough to talk about but but.

00:50:41.490 --> 00:50:42.990 David V. Griffin: Of course we do of course we do.

00:50:43.830 --> 00:50:50.070 Jeff Goodman: i'm Joseph Mitchell let's talk about a couple of the things he was involved with what what was the gypsy Law Society.

00:50:51.450 --> 00:51:02.910 David V. Griffin: um that I was kind of hoping, you tell me a little bit about, but I, I do have a few kind of notes about this, he served several times on the board of directors of that society.

00:51:04.020 --> 00:51:11.370 David V. Griffin: was an international organization of students of gypsy life and gypsy language, which was founded in England in 1888.

00:51:12.630 --> 00:51:24.630 David V. Griffin: Bashar, which is a musical comedy based on stories about gypsies by Mitchell ran for 232 performances on broadway in 1964 to 95 now something that I want to put out.

00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:38.880 David V. Griffin: For any international listeners, and particularly for a British listeners, is the fact that the use of the word gypsy in the United States and it's used in Great Britain are two very different things at this point um gypsy is a very.

00:51:39.900 --> 00:51:52.920 David V. Griffin: pejorative term in Britain and it's It really is quite racist unfortunately and it's something that you know people should shy away from saying and over here because.

00:51:53.790 --> 00:52:06.360 David V. Griffin: You know, some patterns were different people in the United States still associate gypsies with kind of a romance in a sense, you know I mean there's a there's a wonderful little painted wagon in a museum among island along on his mother.

00:52:07.410 --> 00:52:13.530 David V. Griffin: History and colleges, that was a painted wagon used by the Roman people who arrived in this country.

00:52:14.670 --> 00:52:15.240 David V. Griffin: 18 years.

00:52:16.410 --> 00:52:29.940 David V. Griffin: And I think people here still here gypsy and I think magic they think something wonderful, I think the amounts of the road it's a symbolic thing in the United States, so that word.

00:52:30.390 --> 00:52:40.230 David V. Griffin: So I did want to just kind of throw that out there, because I know that there has been a lot of discussion recently about whether or not that's a slur an ethnic slur and.

00:52:40.290 --> 00:52:41.520 Jeff Goodman: Well, it is used as a slur.

00:52:41.520 --> 00:52:44.070 Jeff Goodman: Unfortunately, our time is Jordan.

00:52:44.640 --> 00:52:57.990 David V. Griffin: But you know stevie nicks gypsy it's one of the most magical songs I think of the 70s period, and you know very much something that I think that that's the way that Joseph naturalism I think approach he had an appreciation for this.

00:52:58.620 --> 00:53:08.610 David V. Griffin: He was sympathetic to people who are in that strata of culture and who were living on the road, the way that they that they didn't traditionally or otherwise.

00:53:08.940 --> 00:53:21.570 David V. Griffin: He was a person who did not judge people because they didn't own property and that's a rare thing in and of itself and in American you know global culture right now i'm.

00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:36.840 David V. Griffin: Michel had tremendous of interest and other things, he was really interested in the waterfront that was, I think his his favorite place in your office, the waterfront the people, the birds, the fish the water, the boats, the entire environment just really captivated him.

00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:45.510 David V. Griffin: commercial fishing with something of great interest to him, he was actually one of the founders of the south street seaport museum.

00:53:47.130 --> 00:53:53.370 David V. Griffin: He was also one of the original members of the Friends of cast iron architecture which has.

00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:53.850 Jeff Goodman: been.

00:53:54.090 --> 00:54:05.460 David V. Griffin: really to become the soho historic district in New York City and was one of the first earliest, and I think architecturally most significant historic districts in New York City and in the country.

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:14.430 David V. Griffin: and through the efforts of that organization cast iron architecture around the country and then around the world became.

00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:31.620 David V. Griffin: revalued and people began to protect it in a way, so what he He really has been behind I think a lot of the preservation of New York as a city in a way that you know, very few writers have whether they you know sympathetically about it or not.

00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:39.390 David V. Griffin: And it's in due to large part because of him that that anything of the original waterfront.

00:54:40.140 --> 00:54:47.400 David V. Griffin: Or the cast iron architecture of New York, which is really I think one of its great glories it's it's the largest collection of cast our.

00:54:47.850 --> 00:54:53.760 David V. Griffin: World it's the place for cast iron architecture was really fully developed Bogart is.

00:54:54.600 --> 00:55:03.510 David V. Griffin: You know just just one amazing building after the other, or something like 900 buildings and soho and Greenwich village and Mitchell is the person who was the driving force.

00:55:04.170 --> 00:55:13.710 David V. Griffin: That preserve that for us, so I think we really owe him in addition to his incredible documentary writing in addition to the.

00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:19.800 David V. Griffin: The SEC creative for the for the new yorker that that idea of like creating a kind of a new, very pithy.

00:55:20.550 --> 00:55:37.470 David V. Griffin: rye get sympathetic kind of approach to a subject very American um he really saved a significant chunk of New York City, for us to appreciate, you know now and I I have tremendous respect for his his position and.

00:55:38.910 --> 00:55:45.060 David V. Griffin: You know, not just American letters, but really in American culture, and I think that he's a writer that i'm hoping, you know people.

00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:48.810 David V. Griffin: If they they're listening to this program they haven't heard about justice Mitchell.

00:55:49.350 --> 00:56:00.780 David V. Griffin: there's an amazing book called up the old hotel, which is a compendium of his desk writings, it is a very large volume, it has numerous essays that he wrote from the worker in at.

00:56:01.680 --> 00:56:14.160 David V. Griffin: The hotel in the title of that book is, I believe I was actually looking for Jeff I told you for looking a little earlier see if this case, I believe I have read that the hotel that has mentioned, is the present.

00:56:15.930 --> 00:56:17.670 David V. Griffin: Greenwich village hotel.

00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:19.980 Jeff Goodman: square hotel.

00:56:20.430 --> 00:56:22.860 David V. Griffin: hotel, which is that the North.

00:56:24.030 --> 00:56:31.470 David V. Griffin: West corner of Washington Square and which is an amazing amazing outdoor one hotel like kind of place.

00:56:32.820 --> 00:56:35.610 David V. Griffin: Great restaurants great bar we've met there many times.

00:56:36.150 --> 00:56:38.940 Jeff Goodman: And that's a literary events there actually.

00:56:38.970 --> 00:56:40.620 David V. Griffin: Is or literary events there about.

00:56:41.910 --> 00:56:44.970 David V. Griffin: I believe that it's owned and operated I believe by vassar alumna.

00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:52.620 David V. Griffin: And I have to say, you know when the pandemic is over, I really look forward to going back there because that's one of my favorite places in New York so historic.

00:56:53.100 --> 00:57:00.000 David V. Griffin: It is so she is so it's everything you know you can see why mitchell's with documented by everybody else will fall in love with it.

00:57:01.020 --> 00:57:13.200 David V. Griffin: You know this is not a paid advertisement, by the way, but it is it's a shout out shout out to one of I think the really great classic are watering holes of that era and have our own error oh yeah.

00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:29.730 Jeff Goodman: You know, David, like every time the time is just gone by we've got like a minute or two, but I want to ask you a question about about Michel, do you think that there was something about New York and about how he related to New York that impacted his His style of writing.

00:57:31.740 --> 00:57:33.120 David V. Griffin: I mean, I think.

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:38.130 David V. Griffin: It gave New York City gave Mitchell subject matter.

00:57:39.510 --> 00:57:46.410 David V. Griffin: It gave him things to write about and I don't know enough about the man to know what his life was like in a small town in North Carolina.

00:57:46.890 --> 00:57:55.260 David V. Griffin: But i'm guessing a small town in North Carolina in the 1920s, like you know it's like a small town anywhere after a while you feel like you know.

00:57:55.650 --> 00:58:04.380 David V. Griffin: What you're dealing here's the cast of characters here's how they will behave you know forever and ever amen until something happens or doesn't.

00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:12.150 David V. Griffin: And I think Mitchell gravitated towards the edges, you are sitting towards its kind of demi monde toys.

00:58:12.720 --> 00:58:18.690 David V. Griffin: Toys Bohemian ISM towards people who was sort of the down and out towards the things that weren't necessarily.

00:58:19.110 --> 00:58:31.860 David V. Griffin: The highlights city, the cultural calendar, if you will, because there was just so much of it, it was a multiplicity thing, so I think, in that sense, he enters the American that or I can be on when you think about people like Whitman.

00:58:32.910 --> 00:58:41.430 David V. Griffin: You think about people like Herman melville you think in some sense of you know, perhaps poets like Emily Dickinson.

00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:54.300 David V. Griffin: whereby there is this kind of multiplicity of America that's going on with their their documentary or they're responding to and Dickinson was a person who had a very private life, she got a very cartel.

00:58:55.320 --> 00:59:12.660 David V. Griffin: But I feel she needs as an epic and I think Mitchell observes and American epic and he picks up the pieces behind it and some very sympathetic a very caring sense, and you know there's been there's been some thought, you know people said.

00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:20.550 David V. Griffin: You know this is Mitchell doesn't read well because you know homeless people are not funny and products are not funny in this funny.

00:59:21.270 --> 00:59:37.800 David V. Griffin: Little did not find this funny I think he found it profoundly sympathetic and I think he held these people up to public observation after public school and he was saying no you can't pretend the guy sleeping it off on the street is not somebody who somebody.

00:59:38.850 --> 00:59:52.650 David V. Griffin: can pretend the work and girl on the corner isn't somebody she is somebody should want to be that person now so there's a tragic element I think what he's talking about, but he hasn't really hit you over the head with it so anyway that's metro.

00:59:53.010 --> 00:59:54.000 Jeff Goodman: Why right.

00:59:54.090 --> 00:59:59.220 Jeff Goodman: That would have been a great launching point to eBay it about someone who moved to New York, but we'll.

00:59:59.220 --> 00:59:59.550 David V. Griffin: have to.

00:59:59.580 --> 01:00:00.990 Jeff Goodman: Do with an extra yes.

01:00:01.710 --> 01:00:03.870 Jeff Goodman: David Griffin Thank you so much.

01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:04.830 David V. Griffin: My gases are.

01:00:05.190 --> 01:00:05.880 David V. Griffin: You so much.

01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:09.120 Jeff Goodman: program about hardcover New York how some great authors.

01:00:09.390 --> 01:00:19.170 Jeff Goodman: portrayed life in the city has been David Griffin David of landmark branding and you can contact David at landmark branding COM well everyone thanks for joining us this evening.

01:00:20.430 --> 01:00:27.720 Jeff Goodman: If you have questions or comments about the show if you'd like to get on our mailing list, please email me Jeff at rediscovering New York nyc.

01:00:28.260 --> 01:00:31.440 Jeff Goodman: You can like us on Facebook and also follow me on instagram and Twitter.

01:00:32.070 --> 01:00:38.250 Jeff Goodman: Once again i'd like to thank our sponsors to rock modi market strategist at freedom mortgage and Jacqueline cosford interior design.

01:00:38.730 --> 01:00:43.320 Jeff Goodman: One more thing, before we sign off i'm Jeff Goodman a real estate agent and brown Harris Stevens in New York City.

01:00:43.620 --> 01:00:49.110 Jeff Goodman: With your selling buying leasing or renting my team and I provide the best service and expertise in New York City real estate.

01:00:49.650 --> 01:00:55.020 Jeff Goodman: To help you, with your real estate needs, you can reach us at 646-306-4761.

01:00:55.770 --> 01:01:01.800 Jeff Goodman: Our producers Ralph story or are engineered this evening is kyle mclean Easter, who is also our production assistant Thank you kyle.

01:01:02.250 --> 01:01:15.570 Jeff Goodman: Our special consultant is David Griffin of landmark branding I love making that acknowledgement, thank you, David stay tuned today PM right here on talk radio that nyc for coffee talk excel with Kevin Barbara thanks for listening everyone we'll see you next time.

01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:17.070 David V. Griffin: Thank you take care.

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