Michael Neece has deep domain expertise in talent acquisition, hiring, and business (and HR) process improvement and system optimization. Michael’s a TED Talk speaker who’s appeared on or been quoted on NBC, ABC, CBS, Financial Times of London, Bloomberg Radio, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, and the NY Times.
Mr. Neece also co-authored a congressional resolution approved by the USA Congress.
Graham opens up today’s show introducing his guest, Michael Neece , someone who has been a TED Talk speaker and has also been seen on places like Bloomberg radio. Michael talks about his business . He had a degree in physics and a former career in engineering. He has a goal of transforming the hiring process in business to be something more joyful. Graham asks MIchael about how he changed from studying physics to getting into business. Michael enjoyed what he has done in his career and studies. He also attributes his skills and interests to his parents who both worked and his father who also was a stay at home parent. Though after having children himself, he decided to change and double his income. For 11 years, he was a “head hunter” and worked engineering; he then transitioned more into a corporate role. Through time, Michael built an interest in building rapport with different kinds of people.
Coming back from the break, Graham asks Michael about whether he has seen more vacancies in jobs in America compared to in the United Kingdom. Michael says that there are only about 157 million people in the workforce and about 9 million openings. He says that only posting a job isn’t recruiting, it is only advertising. Based on his past experience, he says that, although not easy, you have to entice and sell to people to join your team. Michael talks about how AI does a great job in matching candidates skills to jobs, and how the people behind this (recruiters) also have to reach out to matches to get to know more about them. He says that today, the reason that people come and go into jobs is because they want to be somewhere that feels better; good leadership, a clear mission and values are also important. Michael says that the best leaders are listening and learning a lot more.
Graham and Michael continue discussing more about situational leadership and how different qualities are needed in leadership for different situations when working with people. The people skills and relationship part of an organization is crucial for its success. Graham asks Michael about data in business. Michael talks about how past data doesn’t affect whether the future data will be one way or another. It may give a false sense of control, but he believes that people and accepting change are who make the future. Graham switches the topic to Michael’s TED Talk. He spoke about how he opened up his presentation showing a woman sitting at her desk who is asked by her boss about the recent projects she has been working on. Though in this story he gave, she had to pull out many files on her computer which made things stressful, leading into the topic of data.
Returning from the final break, Graham talks to Michael about another talk that he gave in Gillette Stadium and at Fenway park. Michael also has auditioned for a reality tv show. The show was about people who were contestants getting into a certain field and the show needed people who could coach the contestants. Based off of this, Graham asks him about how he feels being put in situations where it is more impromptu than structured. Michael compares it to when politicians get asked questions and they never really answer the question to be cautious about saying the wrong thing. Michael gives his final advice to business owners and recruiters on vacancies and hiring. He says that they need to be open minded and how their next hire probably won’t have a resume that has a lot of what they’ll expect such as a degree, already had a career and experience in their own field, etc. He says that they also need to stop discriminating, meaning eliminating talent from their view. By discriminating, he means not just against race and things of that nature, but also against people who have had a different career path or skill set that they were not expecting.
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:33.870 Graham Dobbin: Welcome to the mind behind the leadership it's Monday it's New York and we're on talk radio dot nyc we're live on Facebook.
00:05:34.380 --> 00:05:46.890 Graham Dobbin: This is the new time for the show just over the last few weeks now leadership's a very polarizing subject there's some people have very strong views and growing up in Scotland.
00:05:47.340 --> 00:06:03.720 Graham Dobbin: The ticket, it was very much an us versus them mentality we're lucky I hear that we on the show that we get the opportunity to look at leadership from what sort of angles, not just I get those two sides, and today i'm pleased to say that we've got one of the genuine good guy.
00:06:04.770 --> 00:06:13.980 Graham Dobbin: we've got someone who understands people the motivation and it has carved out a successful career and business helping companies scratch below.
00:06:14.490 --> 00:06:26.640 Graham Dobbin: The people in the process and on the other side of it, allowing employees the opportunity to show themselves in the best possible light and i'm also pleased to say that we would regard michaels of personal practice.
00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:37.860 Graham Dobbin: Michael is a principle of interview mastery we've got Michael nice here right now he's got a deep domain experience and expertise and talent acquisition hiring.
00:06:38.190 --> 00:06:46.170 Graham Dobbin: and business, especially around HR processes and improvement, which is a huge huge subject at the minute all over the world, because.
00:06:47.130 --> 00:06:58.500 Graham Dobbin: A hiring people talent has changed dramatically over the last 12 months michael's also a Ted talk speaker is appeared on being quoted on NBC ABC.
00:06:58.890 --> 00:07:08.910 Graham Dobbin: CBS Financial Times of London Bloomberg radio Wall Street Journal Washington Post and the New York Times, and of course here on the mind behind leadership.
00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:21.360 Graham Dobbin: and Michael has also also co authored a Congressional resolution approved by the U s a Congress is that all you've ever done Michael was that good to see you.
00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:29.040 Michael R. Neece: Soon okay there I am.
00:07:29.130 --> 00:07:30.150 Graham Dobbin: Here we go you.
00:07:30.540 --> 00:07:34.920 Michael R. Neece: great to see you great to be with you, oh my gosh I have this to here in New York City.
00:07:35.400 --> 00:07:45.990 Graham Dobbin: yeah missing it as well, a little bit and just for anybody doesn't know what broadcasting live in New York and i'm in Sydney so is tomorrow already is Tuesday morning here.
00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:48.240 Michael R. Neece: You always were ahead of the curve.
00:07:49.140 --> 00:08:05.010 Graham Dobbin: Nice touch Michael I love it Thank you i'm like I know we spoke in a couple of times on the show yeah okay just give us a reminder what's the business, what do you get involved with and then we'll we'll we'll have a little look at kind of watch changed over the over the last while.
00:08:05.850 --> 00:08:21.720 Michael R. Neece: yeah well you know in business people say find your niche and draw no and dive deep well my niche kind of found me after a career in engineering and degree in physics, I went into the world of recruiting where the.
00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:36.390 Michael R. Neece: The recruiting process and interviews, in particular, those are the most financially important moments of someone's career that impacts, the quality of their life, for example, if you're a hiring manager.
00:08:37.140 --> 00:08:40.740 Michael R. Neece: If you don't hire the right people you don't get your objectives.
00:08:41.280 --> 00:08:51.690 Michael R. Neece: achieved and your career stagnate segments stagnates or you get a reputation of not being able to hire good people now if you're, on the other side of the desk and you're.
00:08:52.320 --> 00:09:01.980 Michael R. Neece: A candidate for a position if you don't if you got great skills, with your don't interview well your career stagnates so I became fascinated by this, and so I.
00:09:02.670 --> 00:09:21.570 Michael R. Neece: I i'm in the business of transforming the hiring process into something that's a lot more joyful a lot more productive and prosperous for everybody involved, whether it's the hiring manager the interview candidate or even the headhunter who buy and put them together some.
00:09:21.870 --> 00:09:25.050 Graham Dobbin: um how did you go from physics to that Michael.
00:09:26.160 --> 00:09:38.130 Michael R. Neece: last one, well, I went to legal I have an underlying fascination with trying to understand how the world works how this planet works, and so I became fascinated with physics, and it was.
00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:45.060 Michael R. Neece: I had a just a natural inclination for it, except when I got quantum mechanics, which is a very strange discipline.
00:09:45.570 --> 00:09:57.210 Michael R. Neece: And then I got practical and I got a master's in engineering and I did that very well, we were making computers, so I was running a factory of 151 people.
00:09:58.020 --> 00:10:07.200 Michael R. Neece: 330 million dollar budget i'd see $30 million budget 151 people, and it was so stressful.
00:10:07.830 --> 00:10:18.540 Michael R. Neece: I was only like 24 years old, but then my wife and I started having babies and I had to double my income overnight, because it was a time when you needed.
00:10:19.380 --> 00:10:28.320 Michael R. Neece: long time ago you needed two incomes to pay the mortgage but the mortgage rates for like 14 or 15% back then, I mean it seems unbelievable now.
00:10:28.350 --> 00:10:38.880 Michael R. Neece: yeah from the tiny little word mortgage percentages, we have now, but yeah they were so I needed to double my income, I had no choice, so I went in to and I became a head on their.
00:10:39.570 --> 00:10:43.920 Michael R. Neece: end and I placed engineers, I did it for 11 years so that's the transition.
00:10:44.370 --> 00:10:58.350 Michael R. Neece: And so after doing being a headhunter for 11 years I went to the corporate side and I went to work as the head of talent acquisition of places like fidelity investments Hewlett Packard international data group things like that.
00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:00.600 Graham Dobbin: So.
00:11:02.250 --> 00:11:12.360 Graham Dobbin: Sorry, Michael I was having a conversation with somebody here in the office, the other day and 2425 year old trying to explain to them that first mortgage was a 12%.
00:11:14.130 --> 00:11:15.780 Graham Dobbin: And he just genuinely didn't, believe me.
00:11:16.260 --> 00:11:16.950 Michael R. Neece: Oh yeah look at.
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.810 Michael R. Neece: 21% the mortgage rates, it was.
00:11:23.190 --> 00:11:23.550 Michael R. Neece: yeah.
00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:29.790 Graham Dobbin: there's no here's the thing 24 years old running a factory 151 people not.
00:11:29.850 --> 00:11:32.490 Graham Dobbin: Around 150 years the engineer coming out.
00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:34.230 Michael R. Neece: I had a head count every.
00:11:35.070 --> 00:11:36.660 Graham Dobbin: Jimmy 51 people.
00:11:37.290 --> 00:11:49.320 Graham Dobbin: 24 years old, with the physics background very much process very much engineering yeah, but it was recognized at that point that you could run a factory with 151 people in it.
00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:53.220 Graham Dobbin: Which means you must have been showing something around human behavior.
00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:55.290 Graham Dobbin: You must have been shown, something that.
00:11:55.290 --> 00:11:57.180 Graham Dobbin: In this studio Janata was.
00:11:58.020 --> 00:11:59.610 Michael R. Neece: I well.
00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:16.470 Michael R. Neece: I was I grew up in well I moved around so on long island for a while, then Massachusetts my brother and I were moving around so when we would go into a new school, we had to get along.
00:12:17.490 --> 00:12:20.580 Michael R. Neece: And I learned how to.
00:12:23.310 --> 00:12:30.630 Michael R. Neece: And guess you can say build rapport with very diverse groups of people so in you know in.
00:12:31.290 --> 00:12:35.730 Michael R. Neece: High School you're some people associate with a different kind of click they say.
00:12:35.910 --> 00:12:45.840 Michael R. Neece: You know, those are the smart kids over those are the jocks Oh, those are the you know blank those are the druggies so there was all these little little cliques well, I was kind of like a quick floater.
00:12:46.470 --> 00:12:57.180 Michael R. Neece: And I would I said, well, the way that I establish rapport is I just kind of behave the way they do so, I became fascinated with.
00:12:57.780 --> 00:13:11.340 Michael R. Neece: How do you build rapport quickly and how can you have influence over people that think very differently than you, and it was it started out, I was just trying to get along not get my ass kicked for being the new kid on the block.
00:13:12.030 --> 00:13:19.860 Graham Dobbin: Is there anything that you remember from last time that would you know anything in particular that that at some point, you went, this is what I need to do.
00:13:21.810 --> 00:13:24.960 Michael R. Neece: Oh, my gosh no I don't think that that was it.
00:13:26.970 --> 00:13:36.750 Michael R. Neece: I really I when I went in from being a plant manager to being a recruiter just with one little desk and working with a little team.
00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:48.330 Michael R. Neece: I was doing it because I was just totally afraid of how was I going to pay the bill, but I ended up really liking it because it was so people intensive and process intensive hmm.
00:13:49.230 --> 00:14:06.120 Michael R. Neece: And what I started to put those things together, and I, of course, being a you know, an engineering type I had an affinity for technology, so the people, the process and the technology started to come together in my mind is three critical things to.
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:07.590 Graham Dobbin: Get um.
00:14:08.670 --> 00:14:18.810 Graham Dobbin: You know i've done i've done a lot with with with some very large companies all over at the moment, so we're looking at leadership we're looking at people behavior employee engagement that type of thing.
00:14:19.020 --> 00:14:28.680 Graham Dobbin: So many companies want to put employees into boxes and they'll say that are yellow or red at a desk or myers briggs or insights or.
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:39.390 Graham Dobbin: End binders or whatever it is, and we'll put them into boxes and i'm i'm showing our people to kind of look for patterns, they just give indications.
00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:44.460 Graham Dobbin: On for for how people will be motivated how the how they'll react to things.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:58.560 Graham Dobbin: Did you look to turn around and say, well, did you put them into your own clicks and in your mind or were you looking more from potential engineering point of view kind of those patterns of like Okay, this kind of make begins to make sense.
00:14:59.310 --> 00:15:06.000 Michael R. Neece: Early in my career, I was exposed to a myers briggs like yep.
00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.150 Michael R. Neece: It was called social styles.
00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:10.890 Graham Dobbin: And yes, yep.
00:15:11.010 --> 00:15:15.810 Michael R. Neece: And what it what it taught you to do was just pay attention to.
00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:27.450 Michael R. Neece: How people like how quickly they speak or what's important to them, whether data and analytics is very important to the how they make decisions or are they.
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:40.830 Michael R. Neece: More on the feeling side of the decision making are they extrovert or introvert or whether they are aggressive decision maker authoritative you know so.
00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:45.360 Michael R. Neece: The whole purpose of that social styles was to understand how someone.
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:55.140 Michael R. Neece: comfortably made decisions so that I could serve them in a way that was comfortable for them.
00:15:56.520 --> 00:15:57.000 Michael R. Neece: So.
00:15:58.050 --> 00:16:04.620 Michael R. Neece: That became a fascination for a while, because I saw value from a business point of view.
00:16:05.640 --> 00:16:14.730 Graham Dobbin: But it sounds like this was something you were naturally good at all you're naturally what's up from a younger age relevant hot to work out when you were in you're in business.
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:15.960 Graham Dobbin: So as much as you've got free.
00:16:16.050 --> 00:16:30.300 Graham Dobbin: As much as we got a framework there, so this is kind of the same you know see if your analytical and you're an active, you can have more touchy feely emotional and, and so we can go through a bit sounds like you've got kind of it's more instinctive for you.
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:47.010 Michael R. Neece: It was quite instinctive I think it was just it, I know that it has a lot to do with both the parents that I was fortunate the family unit, I was fortunate to be born into and i'll give you an example.
00:16:49.290 --> 00:17:06.720 Michael R. Neece: Both of my parents were really smart like my father was an engineer, but it was also he went into sales and then he was then he went into his that it was very much of an entrepreneur and guess what his firstborn son started to do the same kinds of things and.
00:17:08.130 --> 00:17:14.160 Michael R. Neece: My and later in my upbringing my mother went out to work, and my father stayed home.
00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:17.850 Michael R. Neece: And so I saw another model where.
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:36.840 Michael R. Neece: I saw a father wearing an apron and being Mr mom before it was even a term and my mother was going out in the workforce and was basically earn a living for the family, and that was in the early like 71.
00:17:39.060 --> 00:17:47.880 Michael R. Neece: That just shows how old I am but we're an engineer couldn't find couldn't get a job, they are all everywhere, everybody was on the street looking for work.
00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:55.680 Michael R. Neece: yeah we can get a job, so my mother worked in the healthcare field and so she went back to work there, so.
00:17:56.310 --> 00:18:05.910 Graham Dobbin: You just reminded me of a school me, which was really unusual that his mother went to work in the father candidate part time jobs and his mother was a motor mechanic.
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.850 Graham Dobbin: And that was absolutely.
00:18:09.630 --> 00:18:10.680 Graham Dobbin: So unusual.
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:19.200 Graham Dobbin: But then it just became the norm, it was just that's what that family did it was a little bit strange but, but it was all good but.
00:18:19.860 --> 00:18:27.660 Graham Dobbin: My guess is people don't actually realize know how out of sync that was with everything that was going on everything that was going on the voter that just that.
00:18:27.750 --> 00:18:30.390 Graham Dobbin: Just wasn't happening that happened um.
00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:30.930 Michael R. Neece: yeah.
00:18:31.470 --> 00:18:33.630 Graham Dobbin: we're about to take a break, when we come back from the break.
00:18:34.260 --> 00:18:45.840 Graham Dobbin: we've spoken a little bit about your background there and know what you're getting involved with really curious to begin to dig in Michael just kind of what's changed in the last year, when we look at workforce, when we look at how people are approaching it.
00:18:46.170 --> 00:18:47.850 Graham Dobbin: And I know you've got you've got some insights.
00:18:48.270 --> 00:18:49.830 Graham Dobbin: On to that just.
00:18:50.910 --> 00:19:05.760 Graham Dobbin: i'm seeing some things here that My guess is mirroring what's happening in the US as well, yes, into the mind the mind behind leadership and we're live here on talk radio dot nyc and we're lucky enough again to be speaking with Michael nice we'll be back after these.
00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:07.050 Okay.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:33.180 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the mind behind leadership Michael we've got your dancing already which is great, we always get people don't seem to that that same shoe.
00:21:35.820 --> 00:21:46.740 Graham Dobbin: company called seek here in Australia, which is the main color job board portal, which is, I I suppose a big competitor of indeed.
00:21:47.310 --> 00:21:56.070 Graham Dobbin: came out in April and May, I think it was March and April, where their largest business month ever, in other words, we had more.
00:21:58.110 --> 00:22:06.210 Graham Dobbin: More vacancies on the portals than any time in history, that was the biggest time ever, and that was before.
00:22:06.810 --> 00:22:19.020 Graham Dobbin: We had locked down here that was wearing whether or not we're in a position of restrictive travel significant restricted international travel will be really been able to get in any great extent in Australia, apart from me.
00:22:19.800 --> 00:22:22.020 Graham Dobbin: For about 18 months and.
00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:32.970 Graham Dobbin: So you know there's a lot there's a lot going on, so there's a lot of movement and it means that there was a lot of vacancies there is that something you phone, first of all is that something that this kind of minerals in the US.
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:39.210 Michael R. Neece: Oh yeah there are, yes, there are more vacancies, and in any other bank in history.
00:22:40.290 --> 00:22:57.960 Michael R. Neece: And we're not actually increasing the Labor force in the United States for the United States has 330 million people, but only 157 million our techniques are in the workforce okay and there's 9 million openings.
00:22:59.340 --> 00:23:05.490 Michael R. Neece: And the unemployment rate is in the like 5.3%.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:16.890 Michael R. Neece: But depending on your success or frustration with finding a job if you're an individual greatly depends on your skill set.
00:23:17.430 --> 00:23:26.490 Michael R. Neece: Whether you know how high the demand is and if you're an employer your ability to find people has to do with your mindset.
00:23:26.910 --> 00:23:39.210 Michael R. Neece: That you bring to looking for you can't look for people in the same way you can't post a job and wait for them to show up recruiting that's not actually recruiting posting a job is just advertising.
00:23:41.040 --> 00:23:53.700 Michael R. Neece: I early not early, but there was one part of my career, where I was at fidelity investments, which was in time, one of the fastest growing financial services companies in Boston Massachusetts.
00:23:54.510 --> 00:24:05.190 Michael R. Neece: And I was responsible for filling 1200 openings with a team of six engineers and they just kept opening more positions, it was the fastest growing business unit they had.
00:24:05.850 --> 00:24:22.050 Michael R. Neece: And what our team decided was we're going to go out and recruit people we're going to sell them entice them we we measured success by how many candidates, we could identify.
00:24:22.890 --> 00:24:30.600 Michael R. Neece: Of course, it had the right skill set, but the candidates him or herself they didn't have a resume we had created because they weren't looking.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:44.730 Michael R. Neece: So that's what recruiting is, and if you take that mindset, then all of a sudden you're you're not trying as a company company you're not in a competitive situation with other companies competing for the same talent you're trying to recruit.
00:24:45.630 --> 00:25:00.630 Michael R. Neece: sell people entice them to join your team, and you don't have a competitive competitive company so that skill set of actually recruiting is very much of a it's a hard discipline it's a hard art.
00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:03.030 Michael R. Neece: To find these days.
00:25:04.080 --> 00:25:13.170 Michael R. Neece: Now so most most companies, they have you know internal recruiters and heads of talent acquisition and their attitude is well I need a better a better.
00:25:13.560 --> 00:25:27.870 Michael R. Neece: computer system and need a system to automate a lot of these processes, but you actually have to inject more humanity into the recruiting process to be more successful so.
00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:31.230 Graham Dobbin: This is as much of a people businesses it's ever been.
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:45.750 Michael R. Neece: it's it's it's I would argue that it's even more of a people business than it's ever been and we have technologies that are creeping in, we have machine learning and artificial intelligence, that is.
00:25:47.610 --> 00:26:01.140 Michael R. Neece: doing its best to squeeze the personal touch out of this hiring process which is completely human intensive most of human intensive business process.
00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:13.440 Michael R. Neece: That runs that helps run an organization and artificial intelligence if it's used properly, can improve that process and inappropriately don't.
00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:15.960 Graham Dobbin: Talk us through the Ai part of it.
00:26:16.470 --> 00:26:19.470 Michael R. Neece: All right, so look artificial intelligence.
00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:32.910 Michael R. Neece: If so, i'll give you two examples that will submit the point if you're if you go on a website and you get an automated chat Bot that's Ai powered chatbot.
00:26:33.540 --> 00:26:43.020 Michael R. Neece: All of a sudden you're pissed off it's like they don't even you know that you know that there's not a human being behind there yeah So there you know, companies will try and automate the.
00:26:43.530 --> 00:26:52.950 Michael R. Neece: they're they're removing they're stepping back away from the personal relationship and expecting that they're going to get better results recruiting people.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:08.040 Michael R. Neece: Now, on the other hand, an appropriate use of artificial intelligence would be matching resumes or CVs to a job opening so you imagine just.
00:27:08.580 --> 00:27:19.380 Michael R. Neece: uploading the job description and artificial intelligence magically matches the top 25 candidates that either have a resume or a linkedin profile.
00:27:19.800 --> 00:27:29.940 Michael R. Neece: or they're on some other website like I was looking for an engineer, it might be github but anyway, the point is artificial intelligence is using to.
00:27:31.050 --> 00:27:46.860 Michael R. Neece: find people that match the jobs specifications which means there is inherently less unconscious bias, or even conscious discrimination taking place like Ai says hey, these are the rules i'm just matching this stuff up.
00:27:48.390 --> 00:28:05.610 Michael R. Neece: So uh but then from those matches now we need human the human recruiter to get involved in reaching out to those individuals and trying to start up a conversation find out what their career interests are trying to encourage them to.
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:11.550 Michael R. Neece: Talk to have or having an interview with the employer.
00:28:13.020 --> 00:28:23.280 Graham Dobbin: um I remember when I first entered the job market, which seems such a long time ago and kind of forcing you looked at was how much money i'm again.
00:28:24.330 --> 00:28:31.440 Graham Dobbin: i'm a couple of other things and and was yeah it sounds like it's something i'd like to do the money's right i'm going to go for it and we didn't really.
00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:41.460 Graham Dobbin: Well, I certainly didn't consider anything else, that would say kind of look what's my mates at that point route neither how, how is that change, however, however, for us.
00:28:43.050 --> 00:28:55.140 Graham Dobbin: To pre face that as well we've heard a lot about millennials coming through, and then the next generations and they'll stay for a couple of years at a job, rather than when I left school, it was like you've got a job for life.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.740 Michael R. Neece: Right.
00:28:55.800 --> 00:29:02.880 Graham Dobbin: I hoping you'd have something with 10 1520 years and so just talk us through the changes that you've seen and.
00:29:04.110 --> 00:29:07.290 Michael R. Neece: yeah we have a real melting pot of attitudes.
00:29:07.650 --> 00:29:08.880 Michael R. Neece: So the.
00:29:10.290 --> 00:29:20.010 Michael R. Neece: It years ago it was that you would get a job, out of school and you'd go to work for a big company and you would just progress up through the ranks and everybody was happy there was this implied.
00:29:20.490 --> 00:29:38.250 Michael R. Neece: employment contract between the employer and the employee and the employees, they don't like to look for we don't like to work look for work it's a real pain in the ass, besides being an emotional roller coaster so people have kind of a built in inertia, I want to stay at this company.
00:29:39.270 --> 00:29:46.590 Michael R. Neece: And it was the employers who obliterated that social contract.
00:29:47.880 --> 00:30:06.030 Michael R. Neece: As soon as the economy started going down in the middle 90s companies just said we're just going to purge employees, all in the name of profit, so the millennials their parents, they saw their parents get mistreated.
00:30:07.830 --> 00:30:13.200 Michael R. Neece: So the millennials realize Okay, there is no social contract it's like I am.
00:30:14.310 --> 00:30:27.810 Michael R. Neece: i'm a free agent I adore I want, and so the the reason the workforce, now the reason people stay or go is if what the company's doing and the team they're surrounded by.
00:30:28.230 --> 00:30:42.420 Michael R. Neece: If there are some alignment of values and organizational culture that is the glue that people don't stay in a job because of money that you know money will keep only keep them for so long and then.
00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:49.320 Michael R. Neece: they're like forget it i'm going to find a better place that feels much better, maybe all on there.
00:30:53.250 --> 00:31:07.260 Michael R. Neece: let's think about think of a volunteer organization nonprofit that has a lot, you know how do you motivate, how do you lead a volunteer organization by the mission and the values that you lead with.
00:31:08.310 --> 00:31:15.090 Michael R. Neece: And if you have crappy leadership that doesn't have clearly a clear mission and values.
00:31:15.300 --> 00:31:25.080 Michael R. Neece: That that organization represents your people are your turnover is going to be high, and your people are going to leave and you're going to scratch your head and blame it on the people leaving when it's really you.
00:31:27.150 --> 00:31:35.310 Graham Dobbin: So how leaders changing then how company owners changing what have you seen so we've gone from this point where.
00:31:36.150 --> 00:31:48.390 Graham Dobbin: i'm talking like probably need 80s, we were a point where you grab the job to the best one that you could get and you will look, you can have 1015 years ahead and hopefully somebody would allow you to be promoted.
00:31:48.810 --> 00:31:49.140 Michael R. Neece: Yes.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.350 Graham Dobbin: To the 90s, when there was a shock to the system.
00:31:52.620 --> 00:31:53.730 Graham Dobbin: And I remember, I went through.
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:57.750 Graham Dobbin: I went through in the 90s, as well, where all of a sudden, there was no job.
00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:05.790 Graham Dobbin: yeah to to know where all those free agents hi Howard Howard company owners we've only got a couple of minutes.
00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:17.880 Graham Dobbin: So we'll talk about it, for the moment, and then we will come back to after the break Michael but just give us an insight What if what have you seen changes and leadership having run businesses and know working with business owners.
00:32:18.570 --> 00:32:39.330 Michael R. Neece: The best leaders are learning more and listening more a lot more, and that contrast with old style leaders who believe that they're always right and when in doubt start command start cranking out orders and expect people to follow.
00:32:41.280 --> 00:32:52.590 Michael R. Neece: Being an autocratic dictatorial leader just isn't going to work, it just doesn't work and and the profitability, although the business metrics they all suffer, but the the most.
00:32:53.880 --> 00:33:06.510 Michael R. Neece: You don't have to be charismatic if you if your keep your mouth shut as a leader and listen first people will tell you how to improve your business, they will tell you what's most important to them.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:22.380 Michael R. Neece: And also, if you're a supervisor or a leader, you know that if you're one of the good ones, you know that one size does have leadership does not fit every situation, there was a book that was published called situational leadership.
00:33:22.740 --> 00:33:27.960 Michael R. Neece: And a situation could be that one person that you're talking to you that's one situation.
00:33:28.650 --> 00:33:41.730 Michael R. Neece: Then you go to a different one another employee their style is different, or the situation or the situation that they're in is different, so you need to be able to adapt your leadership style based on the situation you're in.
00:33:42.870 --> 00:33:51.930 Graham Dobbin: And Luke micah we'll talk a little bit more about this after the break was to talk more about what you can do away from work because you've got some interesting facts I know.
00:33:52.260 --> 00:34:09.120 Graham Dobbin: I want to know a little bit more about you're listening to the mind behind the leadership we're talking life here on talk radio dot nyc you times Monday 5pm Eastern and we're lucky enough to be speaking with Michael nice this evening we'll be right back after these messages.
00:36:50.520 --> 00:37:04.560 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back let's stick to the bank bank leadership we're live talk radio dot nyc i'm laughing because our guest Michael nice suddenly disappeared there for a moment, like a the like you'd fallen, though, Michael good to see that you.
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:11.940 Graham Dobbin: were talking about situational leadership, but talking about and business owners.
00:37:12.450 --> 00:37:20.280 Graham Dobbin: having to live, we know when some becomes an a senior position or business or owns a business they move away from the expertise that they've had.
00:37:21.180 --> 00:37:30.870 Graham Dobbin: So that maybe we've been having been an engineer or they've got a specific expertise it tends to be kind of the catalyst for starting a business or or moving up.
00:37:31.140 --> 00:37:32.940 Graham Dobbin: That all of a sudden we've got to deal with people.
00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:43.110 Graham Dobbin: that's always been a bit of a conundrum that's always been one of those things that be may be difficult for for set I would highlight probably engineering.
00:37:43.890 --> 00:37:55.530 Graham Dobbin: And it's been one of them going from the process to the people, but that seems to be even more so, know the needs to better kind of an amber dexterity within the approach.
00:37:56.610 --> 00:38:04.200 Graham Dobbin: That allows people to see it it's actually it was more important to to to be focused on the people, then, then, then the business itself.
00:38:04.950 --> 00:38:17.700 Michael R. Neece: yep yeah that's absolutely true earlier in my career, one of my bosses described he basically draw graph for me, but it basically described how.
00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:23.520 Michael R. Neece: Earlier in your career you're an engineer or you're in sales and most of your job right out the.
00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:30.060 Michael R. Neece: You know the bottom of the organization is very technically intensive is a little component that's people.
00:38:30.870 --> 00:38:40.050 Michael R. Neece: But as you go higher and higher you do less than less, of the blocking and tackling and more of the composition of your work is all about people.
00:38:40.740 --> 00:38:48.150 Michael R. Neece: and reporting, you know doing tracking reporting is always a pain in the ass that people don't like, but the the.
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:56.460 Michael R. Neece: People part the relationships are the most important glue that holds together an organization so.
00:38:57.450 --> 00:39:04.110 Michael R. Neece: yeah people you have people skills, if you don't have people skills just stay as an individual contributor and you'll be a lot happier.
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:13.680 Michael R. Neece: What happens is when people change from being a technic you know, a technocrat engineer or sales or whatever they were as they go up in an organization.
00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:24.030 Michael R. Neece: They feel great that they got promoted and then it got a new title but they're very stressed out because now, they are not in their comfort zone they're not in their area of expertise.
00:39:25.470 --> 00:39:26.730 Michael R. Neece: So they have learned a new skill.
00:39:27.630 --> 00:39:28.830 Graham Dobbin: A huge an engineer.
00:39:29.700 --> 00:39:31.170 Michael R. Neece: i'm an engineer engineer.
00:39:32.970 --> 00:39:36.300 Michael R. Neece: My Am I am yeah I have a master's in engineering.
00:39:36.600 --> 00:39:39.990 Graham Dobbin: yeah Do you still see yourself as an engineer.
00:39:40.230 --> 00:39:43.740 Michael R. Neece: Oh yeah oh yeah without I see the way that.
00:39:45.450 --> 00:39:58.500 Michael R. Neece: One of the consulting areas that I still do is process improvement consulting and it happens to be around a lot of HR related things so I still bring this engineering process orientation.
00:39:58.950 --> 00:40:17.940 Michael R. Neece: To that discipline and I, my my mission is to make things easier for the humans my brother and and if it's if i'm putting in place a simpler, more intuitive process that makes makes it easier for people then i'm making progress.
00:40:19.350 --> 00:40:26.490 Graham Dobbin: I swear that's unusual we normally look to improve a process rather than look at the people impact on it.
00:40:27.600 --> 00:40:35.220 Graham Dobbin: Oh yeah yeah i'm kind of final part of this i'm curious is something you mentioned, there about data.
00:40:35.850 --> 00:40:47.910 Graham Dobbin: yeah and one of the things that i've said over and over the over the last few years is, we can almost put too much emphasis on data i've seen companies that almost KPI performance out.
00:40:48.990 --> 00:41:04.500 Graham Dobbin: Of the people because everybody is so focused on activity hitting a specific number, without necessarily that number being reevaluated in a regular on a regular basis, because situations change and the vitamin changes are owners.
00:41:04.890 --> 00:41:06.420 Graham Dobbin: would push push your take on that.
00:41:07.170 --> 00:41:09.150 Michael R. Neece: Data while.
00:41:09.240 --> 00:41:18.450 Michael R. Neece: Really sexy is always about the past and what's, the first thing you see on every financial perspective on the planet.
00:41:19.590 --> 00:41:22.500 Michael R. Neece: past performance is not an indicator of future results.
00:41:23.700 --> 00:41:36.060 Michael R. Neece: We have more data weather data, then at any point in human history and 70% of the time actually 71% of the time, the weathermen are wrong or what weather persons are wrong.
00:41:36.510 --> 00:41:45.690 Michael R. Neece: So, even with this mountain of historical data and all of these mathematical algorithms to predict the future whether 24 hours from now.
00:41:46.290 --> 00:41:57.330 Michael R. Neece: We still don't get it right, every time so data is kind of sexy, and you get all those pretty graphs and it gives you this false sense of control and like.
00:41:57.330 --> 00:42:10.020 Michael R. Neece: You know where it's going but guess what here's the past performance is not an indication of what the future is going to be and who makes the future the people they make the future.
00:42:11.310 --> 00:42:21.780 Graham Dobbin: so well, how can we use data, then, because as much as the past isn't an indication what's going to happen in the future My guess is it gives an indication of what the good things to do.
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:23.880 Graham Dobbin: Or maybe put the mix of.
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:26.880 Graham Dobbin: activity or approaches or something like that.
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:42.870 Michael R. Neece: Well, when you let's say that you're you can do something as simply you're trying to increase sales by looking at conversion rates for different email campaigns or different ad campaigns, you can do a B.
00:42:43.200 --> 00:43:05.310 Michael R. Neece: c to see what works in different situations, so you might have one set of data that shows that oh on Facebook these kinds of the way that we structure our offer works pretty well for Facebook and it might fail miserably on linkedin before instagram.
00:43:05.850 --> 00:43:14.880 Michael R. Neece: You know, again, you have situations, you have so you can the data is in response to what you creatively tried to create so.
00:43:16.230 --> 00:43:20.640 Michael R. Neece: The future is being created in your imagination so it's like okay your imagination i'm going to.
00:43:21.090 --> 00:43:31.920 Michael R. Neece: i'm going to lay out the Ad different way or i'm going to offer something different, and you know i'm going to bundle it differently or i'm going to change the price and then you're going to see what happened.
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:39.150 Michael R. Neece: And what happened is in the past, you like okay well Okay, so now, you can you can you're kind of like.
00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:58.500 Michael R. Neece: An airplane an airplane is off course 90% of the time and there's all these little adjustments like okay i'm flying them on but I got blown off course OK now i'm going to you know correct so you're always doing these little course corrections.
00:43:58.530 --> 00:44:01.350 Michael R. Neece: You then in business or whether it's a rocket.
00:44:04.710 --> 00:44:12.750 Graham Dobbin: yeah it's one of the things have settled, what with a number of teams quite recently, so click here's a list of good things to do.
00:44:14.130 --> 00:44:27.600 Graham Dobbin: Choose some core try them out because they are approaches, with specific people are never going to be the same is you know we've got we've got a rough guide I, as an airplane, we know that we're going in that direction.
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:34.380 Graham Dobbin: But to assume that we're going to be on exactly the same road is is is probably.
00:44:36.390 --> 00:44:39.210 Graham Dobbin: Something is false it's not going to serve us very well if that's kind of.
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:40.950 Michael R. Neece: that's what a thought process is going.
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:57.930 Michael R. Neece: So you have the status quo is the biggest enemy to improving performance people don't like change likes want to hold on to the status quo, but that is only going to give you the same or worse results.
00:44:58.350 --> 00:45:09.060 Michael R. Neece: So when you hear when you hear yourself saying Oh well, we always did it that way, it seemed to work you're just you're asking for dessert you're inviting poor performance in the future.
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:27.930 Graham Dobbin: i'm cute we do want to kind of talk about some of the other things that you've got involved with because i'm always fascinated when we speak when when every time we'll be talking about you, coming from a physics background to do what you do know, and we have taken you i'm Ted talks.
00:45:28.470 --> 00:45:30.000 Graham Dobbin: yeah you've done it.
00:45:30.510 --> 00:45:32.340 Michael R. Neece: Once i'm done a Ted talk yes.
00:45:32.430 --> 00:45:37.050 Graham Dobbin: Okay okay don't don't dismiss it like that came to tell us what.
00:45:37.110 --> 00:45:37.380 Graham Dobbin: I did.
00:45:40.770 --> 00:45:49.920 Michael R. Neece: it's the unique venue or type of presentation that you make, and you like if you're doing business presentations and PowerPoint.
00:45:50.430 --> 00:46:00.420 Michael R. Neece: You will fail miserably you will give the worst Ted talk that's ever been recorded a Ted talk is you're telling a story about.
00:46:01.110 --> 00:46:08.850 Michael R. Neece: a topic that you're passionate about, and you have to use language that your grandmother or someone that's completely.
00:46:09.330 --> 00:46:25.380 Michael R. Neece: uninitiated in your area of expertise, you have to tell a story in a way that they completely get it and they learn something new and you'll notice in the Ted talks there's the best ones, have no words that flash up on the big screen it's all just a picture.
00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:42.660 Michael R. Neece: Because, just like every business presentation you the person you're the most powerful visual aid yeah not not some fancy graph on a PowerPoint slide like oh look at this.
00:46:44.700 --> 00:46:46.800 Michael R. Neece: This fancy drawing people are like.
00:46:48.120 --> 00:47:06.090 Michael R. Neece: I don't care I don't care, I want to feel your passion, I want to know something about that we're always we're emotional beings and that's how we make decisions and if you're just throwing data and pretty chevron's that people they're going to just print off.
00:47:07.050 --> 00:47:08.190 Graham Dobbin: Of what we just subject.
00:47:08.910 --> 00:47:10.200 Michael R. Neece: What was my subject.
00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:21.540 Michael R. Neece: yeah well, it was all up and the topic was how to facilitate increased commerce in a networked economy oh my God how.
00:47:22.140 --> 00:47:22.890 Graham Dobbin: exciting.
00:47:23.520 --> 00:47:25.650 Graham Dobbin: would have been helping me in the front room.
00:47:29.100 --> 00:47:34.590 Michael R. Neece: But what the what what I talked about was how it started out it had a picture of.
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:44.340 Michael R. Neece: A woman sitting in front of a computer and she was a project manager and her boss just asked her to give her status on the three major projects that she's working on.
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:50.910 Michael R. Neece: And so, this first picture was she looked very much under control, and you know they're typing on the computer.
00:47:51.540 --> 00:48:02.940 Michael R. Neece: But what was actually going on her in her mind was chaos, because she had to log in and out of 15 different Apps and databases to collect the data that she needed.
00:48:03.570 --> 00:48:15.150 Michael R. Neece: To then put into a spreadsheet sifted with some formulas to put together a project plan and then report on the data, so there was always chaos, there was more data but less knowledge.
00:48:15.540 --> 00:48:25.950 Michael R. Neece: And so, then I went so that was set the stage for the problem, but again I was trying to be very humanistic and then, how do we go about.
00:48:26.580 --> 00:48:31.320 Michael R. Neece: Solving in one little step at a time and then I said, for example.
00:48:31.740 --> 00:48:45.600 Michael R. Neece: You know, and I pulled out my phone I says how the hell does this thing this GPS thing know what time i'm going to arrive at my destination within like a minute or two how the hell, does it do that.
00:48:46.560 --> 00:49:02.280 Michael R. Neece: And so, anyway, so I use that as a metaphor, as the reason that GPS knows it because it knows the path that you're on, and if you continue on this path you're going to run into some traffic delays or.
00:49:03.330 --> 00:49:10.380 Michael R. Neece: And so I said, well, we just have to know what path we're on to make things easier for us anyway, so that was.
00:49:10.740 --> 00:49:20.130 Graham Dobbin: kind of like nice i'm look i'm going for a final break when we come back talk a little bit more about what you've done and what else you've done.
00:49:20.550 --> 00:49:33.840 Graham Dobbin: And i'll kind of away from the business side I know you've done some talks elsewhere and a couple of TV things and also think about what kind of tips, can we give special in this job market know what.
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:43.380 Graham Dobbin: Should business owners leaders etc be focusing on to get that good talent and also probably even more importantly, retain the ones that we've got.
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:54.060 Graham Dobbin: we're listening to your listening we're listening to we're on the mind behind leadership you're listening to we've got Michael nice with us to talk radio dot nyc and we'll be back after these.
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:55.290 Graham.
00:50:25.980 --> 00:50:28.080 menopause and how it impacts on your life.
00:52:01.650 --> 00:52:07.380 Graham Dobbin: Welcome back to the bank bank leadership we're speaking with Michael nice Michael just been telling us about his Ted talk.
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:23.220 Graham Dobbin: Michael you've also given speeches and i'm going to see this quietly because we're in New York it fame we PICs ballpark gillette stadium what's going on there's that not up in Boston.
00:52:25.560 --> 00:52:37.020 Michael R. Neece: Those are up in Boston oh gosh yes yeah I did it was a gillette stadium, where the where the patriots play and I did a nother talk at.
00:52:37.950 --> 00:52:47.850 Michael R. Neece: fenway park and what was going on in both of those situations was those were job fairs that we're trying the companies, putting on the job fairs and trying to have.
00:52:48.240 --> 00:52:56.280 Michael R. Neece: unique venues, they were thinking outside the box, how do I get more people different types of people in different types of companies here.
00:52:58.020 --> 00:53:04.350 Michael R. Neece: and have a more interactive lighter finer.
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:20.430 Michael R. Neece: event for all involved, I mean when you were when we were at the football stadium one there was one glass wall, you could look out and you could see the team practicing so it was it was a different type of venue.
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:23.820 Graham Dobbin: So just so we're clear to us American football we're talking about, not the.
00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:25.290 Michael R. Neece: program that's right, yes, not.
00:53:25.680 --> 00:53:26.640 Graham Dobbin: Not the proper football.
00:53:27.720 --> 00:53:33.480 Graham Dobbin: Football in the proper food, but I remember a few years ago I did a did a talk at Liverpool football club stadium.
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:43.950 Graham Dobbin: And you know just open this new stand and having lived in Manchester, this was the this was like a New York kind of Boston rivalry.
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:45.840 Graham Dobbin: going through there and I.
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:49.530 Graham Dobbin: didn't I didn't want to enjoy your be was such a.
00:53:49.620 --> 00:53:53.820 Graham Dobbin: boss make some jump was speaking that.
00:53:54.630 --> 00:53:56.910 Graham Dobbin: kind of pretend that I didn't care on the day.
00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:01.050 Michael R. Neece: Of you did.
00:54:01.770 --> 00:54:03.090 Graham Dobbin: It it was it was great.
00:54:05.160 --> 00:54:08.670 Graham Dobbin: You audition for a reality TV show my.
00:54:08.670 --> 00:54:10.950 Graham Dobbin: God my God do me a favor.
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:14.220 Graham Dobbin: don't write these things down if you don't want to be asked about it.
00:54:14.790 --> 00:54:15.840 Graham Dobbin: it's gonna be a bad.
00:54:17.580 --> 00:54:18.750 Graham Dobbin: People I.
00:54:18.810 --> 00:54:32.910 Michael R. Neece: talked to us about wow yeah so I was in Boston minding my own business and a friend of mine knew the producer of a new TV show that was being that we're doing a pilot, and it was all about careers.
00:54:33.450 --> 00:54:39.660 Michael R. Neece: And so they wanted an interview coach that would coach people.
00:54:41.010 --> 00:54:43.170 Michael R. Neece: Before they went on their interviews.
00:54:43.530 --> 00:54:44.610 Michael R. Neece: And I remember.
00:54:44.850 --> 00:54:50.700 Michael R. Neece: During the audition I just you know come to New York and going into this little building and.
00:54:51.450 --> 00:55:02.520 Michael R. Neece: I go into the conference room and they got the camera setup and I was like I thought we're just gonna talk, but no That was the audition so they said yes sit down right or no just stand right over there at the end of the table, and they have like.
00:55:02.790 --> 00:55:26.310 Michael R. Neece: half a dozen people there and they would say Okay, we have three contestants they're all going for dog groomers now one is an expert, you know one has no expertise, one is this one is that what are you going to say to the first person going for their dog groomer interview and so.
00:55:27.930 --> 00:55:47.970 Michael R. Neece: What I I knew that I will I assumed that they wanted something what didn't want me to say just something valuable about how I was going to prep this person they wanted me to be entertaining and a little edgy and spontaneous and so I was I did the best I could and.
00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:57.960 Michael R. Neece: Then they would throw another situation at me and another one just absurd situations and to see how I did so.
00:56:00.390 --> 00:56:02.040 Graham Dobbin: I need to with I mean look.
00:56:02.250 --> 00:56:10.110 Graham Dobbin: We have many people will not know this, this is not a highway scripted interview, this is a chat that we have.
00:56:10.710 --> 00:56:12.330 Graham Dobbin: You kind of we've not done any.
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:25.680 Graham Dobbin: Preparation or whatever for this, how do you deal with those situations which are modern prompt you that kind of you're putting your put into place that they see i'm looking at the physics.
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:26.970 Graham Dobbin: i'm looking at the email.
00:56:27.240 --> 00:56:34.080 Graham Dobbin: me or Michael pure love is the process and everything, then all of a sudden, you put into something a question comes sideways at you.
00:56:35.580 --> 00:56:37.290 Graham Dobbin: How does that work, how did you learn that.
00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:40.200 Michael R. Neece: wow i'm.
00:56:41.310 --> 00:56:41.550 Graham Dobbin: Just.
00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:49.110 Michael R. Neece: One of the things that is, that is an asset for me is I have kind of a playful.
00:56:50.190 --> 00:56:53.190 Michael R. Neece: nature which you have encountered many times.
00:56:53.250 --> 00:57:06.180 Michael R. Neece: yeah and i'm also not afraid to make a mistake actually I don't even think about it do it, saying the right thing, or the wrong thing I just want to say something interesting or something valuable and.
00:57:06.930 --> 00:57:14.640 Michael R. Neece: very, very often, a question that someone will ask you or me, it will spark a memory to.
00:57:15.690 --> 00:57:22.860 Michael R. Neece: throw a little switch in your head, even if I can't get right on point of what they asked me, I can get pretty close.
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:38.250 Michael R. Neece: And if you watch politicians getting interviewed there's this adversarial role where the politician is they come out and they give us some can a some kind of statement and then the people in the press.
00:57:38.910 --> 00:57:50.130 Michael R. Neece: ask questions to try and get them to say something controversial or something they don't want to say and the politician almost never answers the question.
00:57:52.140 --> 00:57:52.950 Michael R. Neece: And so.
00:57:53.220 --> 00:57:55.560 Michael R. Neece: We don't i'm trying not to do that, but.
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:59.970 Graham Dobbin: You know I realized not bound by.
00:58:00.240 --> 00:58:01.710 Michael R. Neece: And i'm not bound by.
00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:03.300 Graham Dobbin: Okay yeah.
00:58:04.650 --> 00:58:05.040 Michael R. Neece: Putting me.
00:58:05.640 --> 00:58:09.150 Graham Dobbin: In the butt and most people don't realize that you don't answer the question.
00:58:10.470 --> 00:58:16.500 Graham Dobbin: As long to kind of close that in the vicinity and we've only got a couple of minutes I normally get to a few minutes left Michael.
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:32.940 Graham Dobbin: i'm really curious what kind of advice would you give business owners and managers leaders who are looking to recruit in this kind of market and given what we said at the very beginning it's it's a it's a buyers market effectively.
00:58:34.080 --> 00:58:37.020 Graham Dobbin: You know there's a lot of vacancies out there and.
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:50.190 Graham Dobbin: When those vacancies out there it's not just that the vacancies they're the people that we've got who are highly talented have also obviously got one eye on what else is out there as well, so what can what kind of things are you telling managers and owners at the moment.
00:58:51.000 --> 00:59:01.260 Michael R. Neece: i'm telling them to be open minded that your next higher is not likely going to come from this classical the resume is not going to look like.
00:59:02.460 --> 00:59:15.480 Michael R. Neece: You know somebody went to school got this degree they've got two jobs they've been in the most recent company, you know as a sales executive for last four years and it's in your industry.
00:59:16.770 --> 00:59:26.310 Michael R. Neece: Great you know the you know it's the your other than the most talented person that you're going to hire is going to come from outside your comfort zone outside your vision.
00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:36.540 Michael R. Neece: So, for example, would you would you hire somebody who was an engineer on a submarine to be a facilities engineer.
00:59:37.470 --> 00:59:55.290 Michael R. Neece: So you have you know there's this the skill sets are similar but you have to be open minded to see the synergies same thing if you're hiring salespeople or product managers or project engineers are nurses that you just need to be open minded and and.
00:59:56.310 --> 01:00:08.880 Michael R. Neece: I would say, stop freaking discriminating because discrimination is alive and well in this country, and it needs to stop because you're as a business, you are eliminating talent.
01:00:09.930 --> 01:00:12.480 Michael R. Neece: From your view so.
01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:26.430 Graham Dobbin: When we say discrimination we've only got seriously only got about 60 seconds left, so to speak, when when we talk about discrimination do we mean the the obvious discrimination that we're talking about or even just discriminating about some of these past experience or.
01:00:26.430 --> 01:00:27.240 Graham Dobbin: Something like that.
01:00:27.300 --> 01:00:33.510 Michael R. Neece: yeah both actually especially discriminating against people that had a different career path that just.
01:00:33.570 --> 01:00:42.870 Michael R. Neece: Yet they may have exceptional skills, but you assume they don't have it, because their career path isn't something is it like yours, or something you expected to see.
01:00:44.130 --> 01:00:55.140 Graham Dobbin: yeah it's I always said, I was unemployable for years, because the kind of career path that gone over all over and very much like yourself Michael kind of reinvented.
01:00:55.590 --> 01:01:06.840 Graham Dobbin: What I was doing my approach another thing on several occasions, look and we never need to prepare this because such you've got such interesting insights Michael.
01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:16.020 Graham Dobbin: Nice, thank you for the interview massively Thank you so much for joining us again here on on the drive time show on the.
01:01:16.680 --> 01:01:29.850 Graham Dobbin: leadership that you, you time i'm Thank you to kyle in the background seamless producing you're an absolute star, thank you for keeping this going, we will be back again next Monday at 5pm Eastern.
01:01:31.320 --> 01:01:43.050 Graham Dobbin: To talk about leadership the approach and how it's changing almost on a weekly basis at the moment, thanks for listening we'll be see you next week take care good night now.
01:01:49.050 --> 01:01:50.640 Michael R. Neece: I want to interview you next time.