Zev Asch is best described as a disruptive strategist when it comes to marketing.
His new book How to Get the Most Out of Marketing addresses many of the myths of this secret art and gives real practical and applicable tactics. We'll dig into what Zev does best and understand why he takes this refreshing approach.
Starting off the show, Graham introduces his guest for today, Zev Asch, who will be on later. In the meantime, he speaks about books that have been influential for him and influential in leadership. He moves more into the topic of leadership and its importance. It’s not always about leading teams, sometimes it's just about being an influencer. Leadership is in almost all aspects of our lives besides in business, like family, sports, religion, etc. He speaks on some principles in business and leadership. One principle that is challenging is to not criticize, condemn or complain. Sometimes it’s easy to do these things because we may not focus on how we can encourage people to do something slightly different instead of only focusing on faults and what we can correct. Second, empathy is important in considering someone else's point of view and helps understand someone else's decisions. Caring is another trait in leadership as well.
Coming back from the break, Graham picks off from talking about the leadership traits of trust and credibility; being reliable affects one’s credibility. Credibility, being reliable and intimacy are the three key parts to building trust. One important part he goes back to is intimacy and the difficulty of being able to not go off in conversations about only ourselves rather than finding out about another person, another factor in good leadership. Graham shifts the conversation about self interest which is what can weaken those three traits. As an example, he talks about companies like insurance offering to get customer’s money back. A company may focus too hard on selling or being in the market but may fall through on their promises. Again, he emphasizes how this affects how we build trust and credibility with others like staff, potential customers or clients.
00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:38.220 Graham Dobbin: Welcome to the mind behind leadership you're listening live on talk radio dot nyc my name is Graham dub and every week or most weeks we speak to.
00:05:38.700 --> 00:05:55.920 Graham Dobbin: Two leaders from different parts of the world, different types of businesses leadership's a strange thing because it's not all about leading teams or being seen as that figurehead, sometimes it can just be a boat and.
00:05:57.720 --> 00:05:58.770 Graham Dobbin: Being an influencer.
00:06:01.350 --> 00:06:05.310 Graham Dobbin: Finding the right way that we can do things and what we talk about.
00:06:06.630 --> 00:06:09.780 Graham Dobbin: is all about the right way, our guest today.
00:06:10.830 --> 00:06:17.250 Graham Dobbin: Is a guy called zev ash, who is on his way by my understanding is that was actually just wrote a book.
00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:24.720 Graham Dobbin: called how to get the most out of marketing and action plan for small business owners.
00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:34.170 Graham Dobbin: And so before he gets here we'll kind of talk about some of the influences that we've all maybe had on on leadership.
00:06:34.830 --> 00:06:51.480 Graham Dobbin: If you are listening or watching on Facebook, please drop us a line, let us know who one of the big influencers have been for you and certainly for myself one of one of the you know we talk about books regularly on the show we talked about.
00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:59.970 Graham Dobbin: My books are such a big influence of my other people's opinions are really, really help us.
00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:14.970 Graham Dobbin: So one of the biggest books that's probably the biggest influence in my life is how to win friends and influence people I don't think i'm i'm kind of unusual and that one the Carnegie book was the original least 1936 that long time ago.
00:07:16.170 --> 00:07:25.890 Graham Dobbin: But still extremely relevant we'll dig into a little bit of that one later as well, can I look at some of the principles what they mean by the way, it's been so.
00:07:27.840 --> 00:07:33.810 Graham Dobbin: So influential on so many lives that was about 30 million copies were.
00:07:35.010 --> 00:07:41.040 Graham Dobbin: were sold in the last century, I think there was it feels feels really strange, when we talk about the last century.
00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:56.370 Graham Dobbin: 30 million copies and people like Warren Buffett have even turned around and said that that was the thing that was a game changer to him so we'll be looking at that will have I will have a little bit of a dig into that booth for also have a look at it, some of the others.
00:07:57.390 --> 00:08:06.720 Graham Dobbin: If you've got any please pop it in chat on Facebook and your any others that you'd like us to talk about and maybe have a little bit of a big.
00:08:07.590 --> 00:08:18.000 Graham Dobbin: Other ones that always come to lane, the same things like thinking grow rich, which was by Napoleon hill another Carnegie was actually extremely influential not we're not was Andrew Carnegie.
00:08:19.020 --> 00:08:19.980 Graham Dobbin: Originally from Scotland.
00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:33.330 Graham Dobbin: Who was the richest man in us in the world at one point and sold, all these riches to them open up libraries worldwide had a really good chat with.
00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:51.240 Graham Dobbin: Jeff Goodman on his show a number, a number of weeks ago when it was a tattoo week in April, about the influence of of Scottish entrepreneurs Andrew Carnegie being one of them and how he how he helped to build New York and we've also got you know.
00:08:52.350 --> 00:08:54.000 Graham Dobbin: More more than things like the E myth.
00:08:55.500 --> 00:09:03.900 Graham Dobbin: by Michael gerber as 1995 words modern business is still 20 odd years old and is one of those books that keeps on popping up.
00:09:05.010 --> 00:09:15.990 Graham Dobbin: Seven habits by Stephen covey so we can see the influences that people are looking at leadership in a different way on a regular basis, and how they can maybe.
00:09:16.650 --> 00:09:30.210 Graham Dobbin: Change what's happening within their own environment, so what let's just have a think about leadership for a moment, where do we actually lead and potentially relieved at home, we can see that.
00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:41.370 Graham Dobbin: families have great leaders, one of the things that the the jump so every time we're speaking with someone about leadership is we think of a business.
00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:43.110 Graham Dobbin: But.
00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:54.780 Graham Dobbin: When we think about business and we're maybe under estimating just kind of influence that we've got another other areas of our worlds so such as.
00:09:55.560 --> 00:10:04.590 Graham Dobbin: Family maybe sport, maybe church, a lot of us have got you know social activities that were on committees will know all those types of things.
00:10:05.430 --> 00:10:17.340 Graham Dobbin: And here's the thing if we if we're on doors and we're helping to run them we've got other people around us then we'll influencers as leadership and so it's a really key.
00:10:18.450 --> 00:10:30.480 Graham Dobbin: Part of life that we either maybe leave or some of us, just like looking for influential people to to to actually follow there's no right and wrong with any of those and.
00:10:31.050 --> 00:10:38.640 Graham Dobbin: So when we consider it let's not just consider business let's not just consider the big business, we can all think about the huge things that happen.
00:10:39.210 --> 00:10:53.640 Graham Dobbin: That are really relevant maybe politicians, etc, but doing the right thing is probably the heart of most of the leadership conversations that we've had over the last year and a bit on the show.
00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:06.720 Graham Dobbin: And so having a think about that just some of the books that are coming out that you can see here i've got i've got a scrapbook from Carnegie, which is actually lots of different.
00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:23.280 Graham Dobbin: writings by different leaders floated through the ages that just begin to help people with the with the thinking about how the dealing with people just again our everyday approach that every not every day.
00:11:25.020 --> 00:11:36.750 Graham Dobbin: angle that we sometimes need to take so if table let's just dig into just wil wheaton and say let's just dig into the first the first few principles that would probably help us here.
00:11:38.400 --> 00:11:40.920 Graham Dobbin: To get an idea of where we're coming from.
00:11:42.330 --> 00:11:55.710 Graham Dobbin: The first principle, how to win friends and influence people is do not criticize condemn or complain know if we really easy it's absolutely I could criticize we're not going to do that, but one of the big things is.
00:11:57.150 --> 00:12:05.010 Graham Dobbin: What you'll find the common theme on most of these books, especially when it's personal development is that is really simple stuff.
00:12:06.510 --> 00:12:15.420 Graham Dobbin: it's just not commonly used that's the challenge so it's things that we know academically will know, intellectually and it's really easy for us to.
00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:35.190 Graham Dobbin: To turn around and say, of course, that's right it's actually how we do it, so one of the things that happens on a regular basis is when i'm speaking with groups and how to not criticize condemn or complain about someone is probably the most difficult that we find and.
00:12:36.390 --> 00:12:39.390 Graham Dobbin: it's easy to criticize us easy to find fault.
00:12:40.590 --> 00:12:49.350 Graham Dobbin: One of the reasons for that is we kind of look to what we can correct we're in a society that looks like, how do we adjust failure.
00:12:49.830 --> 00:13:02.460 Graham Dobbin: Or how do we make things slightly better rather than how do we engage people in in in maybe encourage them to do something slightly different and so when we criticize.
00:13:03.630 --> 00:13:10.740 Graham Dobbin: Anybody was in here, but one of the things that happens with me when I criticize and or i'm criticized.
00:13:12.180 --> 00:13:12.990 Graham Dobbin: Is.
00:13:14.400 --> 00:13:25.260 Graham Dobbin: The wall, we really defensive and i'm when I do that i'm kind of shut off to any ideas, even if the good ones, therefore.
00:13:26.430 --> 00:13:27.540 Graham Dobbin: What someone else is going to do.
00:13:28.740 --> 00:13:34.830 Graham Dobbin: it's highly likely that they're going to do exactly the same, and this is where the problem in life.
00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:40.050 Graham Dobbin: We don't get that correct of nature if we just begin to criticize people.
00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:48.960 Graham Dobbin: Then the probably not listening to too busy defending even if it's justified so there's been more than one occasion.
00:13:49.530 --> 00:13:56.970 Graham Dobbin: But I have been criticized and it's been absolutely justified, and I still feel the necessity to defend myself.
00:13:57.690 --> 00:14:02.730 Graham Dobbin: And, most people do that so let's just think just from lumber when we do that.
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:09.420 Graham Dobbin: we're not listening for anything else we're not listening for that for something that might help us we're not listening for the corrective behavior.
00:14:09.900 --> 00:14:22.320 Graham Dobbin: we're not even probably not even exploiting it with me do later, but initially the emotion kicks in to give us that position where we need to really think about it and and.
00:14:23.730 --> 00:14:36.000 Graham Dobbin: human nature is just that we're going to defend ourselves if we're if we feel we're being attacked and a criticism is that so some of the traits that jump out every time I speak with.
00:14:37.560 --> 00:14:41.550 Graham Dobbin: I speak with groups with audiences i'm doing this on a regular basis.
00:14:42.870 --> 00:14:53.820 Graham Dobbin: So retreats to jump hope for leaders empathy is a huge one and empathy somebody who can really dig into what's what's happening, who can really listen.
00:14:54.330 --> 00:15:07.680 Graham Dobbin: Who can maybe just get under the skin that little bit and see things from a different point of view and understand it, but doesn't mean they see that we need to agree as a leader that's that's a huge thing it doesn't mean to say that we need to agree.
00:15:08.790 --> 00:15:18.300 Graham Dobbin: But if we're empathetic then we're considering things from other people's point of view, if we're if we're doing that we're probably unlikely to criticize.
00:15:18.780 --> 00:15:30.750 Graham Dobbin: If we're being empathetic probably unlikely to come on just folks because we're looking for different ways of engaging with some they were looking at either doing it.
00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:33.210 Graham Dobbin: And maybe help them not.
00:15:34.230 --> 00:15:46.590 Graham Dobbin: So that's that's one that's one of the huge trades another one which is surprising, especially number corporates are work with, but no one that surprising is being kidding.
00:15:48.420 --> 00:16:02.820 Graham Dobbin: been killing as a leader is probably not one of the first things that we would instinctively think about but let's just think about some great great people that have influenced us that helped us in life that we have followed them educated us.
00:16:04.380 --> 00:16:09.120 Graham Dobbin: My guesses the short kidding to us My guess is that they've shown.
00:16:10.470 --> 00:16:18.870 Graham Dobbin: More than just empathy that there really a level that they want to help it completely help and we we've got that trust.
00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:22.620 Graham Dobbin: And we'll talk about trust actually after the break.
00:16:23.730 --> 00:16:25.440 Graham Dobbin: about what that really means.
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:42.600 Graham Dobbin: empathetic leadership kidding leadership of to the things that that wouldn't necessarily jump out as what we'd expect intellectual expect to leaders to be, but certainly that emotional part and many of the people that were spoken about that has been from.
00:16:44.070 --> 00:16:50.580 Graham Dobbin: From the former The co founder of netflix we've had on the show, I have a Tony Alessandra who.
00:16:51.930 --> 00:17:03.690 Graham Dobbin: Is who has a company who supplies the most disc assessments personality behavioral styles that type of thing in the world and they'll talk about this.
00:17:04.350 --> 00:17:16.650 Graham Dobbin: they'll talk about looking after our people will talk about um, how do we look after people after the break and a couple of minutes and also after the break we'll look at just kind of put in mind does.
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:23.130 Graham Dobbin: When we're thinking about how we influence ourselves I just give you a couple of stories about.
00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:43.380 Graham Dobbin: How of what's in the sports arena or what's in different areas that just made a difference and you're listening to the main behind leadership we're live on talk radio dot nyc my name is Graham dobbin and we will be back after these messages to talk a lot about trust.
00:20:07.770 --> 00:20:18.960 Graham Dobbin: Well, welcome back to the main behind militia live here on talk radio, the nyc my name is Graham bobbing out we're waiting on site we've got some technical issues on Dev side, not on our side.
00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:37.140 Graham Dobbin: And we're waiting on save ash coming in, but before before the break we're just talking about leadership and maybe the approach to it, and one of the talking about books and one of the books, I read a little while which she had a big influence was the trusted advisor.
00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:42.570 Graham Dobbin: Big company down in I think was Charles Green is the author, one of the.
00:20:43.860 --> 00:20:47.400 Graham Dobbin: Now, what does it mean stays in that is the trust formula.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:21:00.300 Graham Dobbin: just talk through so most people we weren't, we will not get silver bronze we want those things are going to really help us and we want to simplify, so we think if we can do one thing, plus the other.
00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:13.170 Graham Dobbin: That should just give us the result wouldn't conform us know always the way of it so let's have a look at what trust formula was and there are three key areas.
00:21:14.820 --> 00:21:24.570 Graham Dobbin: Where we can build trust no that's as leaders that's as managers that's just in general as people as peers, as colleagues and the first one was credibility.
00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:38.910 Graham Dobbin: kind of obvious isn't it and we credible, can we do what we say we're going to do have to give the background, do we have the experience to be the knowledge can we prove it, and then business with probably this is we've been a tough road and say.
00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:48.270 Graham Dobbin: This is where we show maybe orders that we've worked with customers that we've worked with products we've been involved with so that's one area.
00:21:49.290 --> 00:22:05.490 Graham Dobbin: And the next area is, are we reliable so so very well doing what we say we can do, do we actually do it i'm probably gone many people who've been highly professional what they can do.
00:22:07.050 --> 00:22:18.300 Graham Dobbin: But not actually carried out not turn round and in just been that person who said right i'll speak to you next Thursday and then speak to us next Thursday.
00:22:18.690 --> 00:22:29.220 Graham Dobbin: i'll get that delivered to you next week and then guess what next week is there, it happens so if we're not reliable a credibility begins to begins to be affected.
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:39.930 Graham Dobbin: The last one is probably the one on the positive traits as more surprising to many people and it's intimacy how well do we know the other person.
00:22:40.560 --> 00:22:56.070 Graham Dobbin: How well do we know what's driving them what's good what's going on behind and it's rarely that we know everything about a client or a colleague or anything I do a regular exercise, which is.
00:22:57.690 --> 00:23:12.180 Graham Dobbin: asking people to talk to each other in a very controlled environment but asking people to speak to each other for five minutes one person asking the questions without it coming back to them or think you're talking about what so, for example.
00:23:13.770 --> 00:23:28.110 Graham Dobbin: If we're standing having a conversation, and someone says, you know i'm going away on vacation or i've just bought your car how many times do we hear that do even hear ourselves jumping back and saying.
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:37.800 Graham Dobbin: i've been to that place and vacation well, let me tell you about it and we start to go into our stories, let me tell you about the last card that I bought, let me tell you about the last meal that I had.
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:52.380 Graham Dobbin: We begin to jump in and talk about ourselves, rather than finding out about the other person if we think of a good leaders, you did influencers they fainting about the other person who spoke about empathy earlier, this is a very large part of it.
00:23:53.670 --> 00:24:01.440 Graham Dobbin: And so that's that's the top line so trust is a combination or or you know yeah absolutely combination of credibility.
00:24:02.490 --> 00:24:13.200 Graham Dobbin: So why do we do what we say we're going to do, I can we do what we say we're going to do, reliability do is do what we say we're going to do an intimacy how well do we know the other person.
00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:27.960 Graham Dobbin: And how well do we know if that person is is driven by either by status by money by action by recognition by all these different things and.
00:24:28.530 --> 00:24:35.610 Graham Dobbin: So, knowing that is absolutely crucial for dealing with customers have a deal with teams of we're dealing with with family members.
00:24:36.390 --> 00:24:42.450 Graham Dobbin: We all know we've got you know anybody who's got kids will know which buttons to press to get a kid to do something.
00:24:42.750 --> 00:24:56.130 Graham Dobbin: And we also know that kind of things that they're not gonna they're not going to be interested in so so we've got we've got credibility, reliability and intimacy the challenge with this is they're all diluted by one thing.
00:24:57.150 --> 00:24:59.820 Graham Dobbin: And now, one thing is self interest.
00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:07.950 Graham Dobbin: And as soon as people see this matter how credible, we are, we can have thousands and thousands and thousands of customers.
00:25:09.930 --> 00:25:10.470 Graham Dobbin: and
00:25:11.550 --> 00:25:13.650 Graham Dobbin: We can deliver on time, every time.
00:25:15.510 --> 00:25:26.580 Graham Dobbin: We can newer client as soon as somebody thinks that we're actually doing it just to get them something we begin to pull away i'm bringing your story, the result.
00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:37.650 Graham Dobbin: For American listeners i'll kind of walk through this the UK listeners you'll get it right away, there was a a large banking scandal over the last kind of 10 years in the UK.
00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:45.060 Graham Dobbin: And the scanner was that insurances ppi was called personal protective insurance, I think it was.
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:54.390 Graham Dobbin: had been sold added on to Laurens added on to credit cards, I didn't want to hold all of the different things and guess what there was actually no coverage.
00:25:55.140 --> 00:26:03.600 Graham Dobbin: And it was a way of upscaling, and this was this was a huge thing, and I know that and American bank system has been kind of similar types of issues.
00:26:05.490 --> 00:26:11.760 Graham Dobbin: When that happened, obviously, the banks were seen as having self interest, so they needed to they needed to do something about it.
00:26:12.570 --> 00:26:26.370 Graham Dobbin: And there was a scheme put in place, but as anybody who had paid for this product could claim it back to claim compensation back so they could get by even over kind of a 1015 year period and.
00:26:27.870 --> 00:26:35.520 Graham Dobbin: So there are two ways we could do this, we could fill out a form and give a give all the details which, as most people know, I think.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:48.300 Graham Dobbin: Brits and Americans are allergic to forms, is something we don't like to do so, we can we avoid filling out forms, where every candidate seen such as an onerous task, or the other way that we could do it.
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:57.390 Graham Dobbin: Is by using a company now, this was one of these companies very similarly UK very similar to.
00:26:59.490 --> 00:27:13.740 Graham Dobbin: personal injury lawyers or something like that, where it's an unknown when no fee basis and here's the challenge and that's it, this is what begins to happen i'm psychological and this is what we need to be careful with when we're running with teams.
00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:33.630 Graham Dobbin: Is the amount of self interest, so what happened was these companies would be texting that be emailing that before running they'd be doing everything we possibly could they be on every radio station and have advertisements going on commercials.
00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:41.940 Graham Dobbin: They would be able to do it would be tomorrow in the same way, we can get your money back, we can do these.
00:27:44.250 --> 00:28:02.010 Graham Dobbin: So, logically, we can go through the transforms our head let's think about this so we've got these companies that are getting in contact with us and saying we can get your money back for you, this is what we can help you get your money back, so what the credible um I guess so.
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:11.250 Graham Dobbin: They seem to they seem to know how to do it really well where the reliable, yes, because if it's a no win no fee, of course, to rely reliable.
00:28:12.540 --> 00:28:23.790 Graham Dobbin: And if the not reliable then didn't get paid and even have a business so there's some logic in there, to tell us, yes, they can do it, and yes, the reliable.
00:28:24.780 --> 00:28:38.400 Graham Dobbin: But the intimate with us that they get to know us well, I suppose, they got enough enough to notice, we began to fall down the got enough information for us to understand that situation to understand about what they needed to do.
00:28:39.510 --> 00:28:47.400 Graham Dobbin: To maybe help us to get the clean through that's what it went through the challenge was self interest.
00:28:48.990 --> 00:29:00.960 Graham Dobbin: Where the scene is only interested in self, and the answer to that is absolutely yes, one of the reasons for that was because of the way they went to market.
00:29:03.780 --> 00:29:10.710 Graham Dobbin: And so, when the market, they were chasing all the time they were looking at it, people would actually more interested in.
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:29.010 Graham Dobbin: What could be 20% that they might lose rather than the 80% making so let's think about this we've got a business there they just say we got hundred dollars up for grabs their work is going to get us at of those doors, but our focuses on the 20 that the tick.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:42.060 Graham Dobbin: Because we're more concerned about their self interest so that actually met men that we didn't trust, and this is a common theme right through if people are seeing this as just having self interest.
00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:45.780 Graham Dobbin: Then it's going to be really, really difficult.
00:29:48.390 --> 00:29:52.800 Graham Dobbin: To overcome that to get people influenced and to get them bought in.
00:29:56.550 --> 00:30:02.370 Graham Dobbin: So, be aware that was the trusted advisor I think it's Charles green was the was the author.
00:30:06.060 --> 00:30:07.650 Graham Dobbin: See credibility.
00:30:08.910 --> 00:30:16.380 Graham Dobbin: Reliability and intimacy but everything is diverted by self interest.
00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:24.600 Graham Dobbin: And so that's kind of where the where the mind plays on this, and this is what we need to be really, really careful with.
00:30:27.060 --> 00:30:34.590 Graham Dobbin: This also comes into market, we want to speak to serve actually about marketing and and this actually comes into marketing.
00:30:35.520 --> 00:30:41.340 Graham Dobbin: When we think about it, that again there's another there's another big difference we've seen companies like.
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:55.590 Graham Dobbin: starbucks etc be absolutely hammered on how the go to market, etc, I mean Australia at the moment it's one of the one of the few places at starbucks is actually really struggled to gain hold on.
00:30:56.310 --> 00:31:08.250 Graham Dobbin: If we if if if you look at the story behind starbucks the the starbucks experience, I think, is, which was one of the great book just on on hydraulic after stuff what they do.
00:31:09.870 --> 00:31:27.780 Graham Dobbin: It gives a different insight into how they approach business, however, has a client that's not always seen and it's also you know, one of one of the big things that we need to be doing for we're looking at our approach to things and we're building trust is can people see our true intention.
00:31:29.100 --> 00:31:49.080 Graham Dobbin: Can people see what what we really are a lot of people i'm sure are familiar with the same and cynic and start with the, why do we see the purpose of the business and when we look at a puppet statements, etc, that gives us insight, but when you look at.
00:31:52.170 --> 00:31:55.890 Graham Dobbin: Other things that Come on, and such as.
00:31:57.090 --> 00:32:04.920 Graham Dobbin: How to staff treat us on the friendly are they interested in us that it will make a difference and.
00:32:06.030 --> 00:32:15.360 Graham Dobbin: So those are just some of the things that we've got and kind of pulling in two together just in the last half hour is the Dale Carnegie having a look at.
00:32:15.870 --> 00:32:26.490 Graham Dobbin: How to win friends and influence people just even that the first principle I don't criticize condemn or complain, you know it's such a difficult thing not to do, but we know what the impact is.
00:32:28.770 --> 00:32:40.800 Graham Dobbin: And the trust formula again it's all about us all we're doing is showing self interest and then it's going to cost us our it's going to cause a real problem.
00:32:43.650 --> 00:32:51.150 Graham Dobbin: And then, when we think about how we openly see it on initiatives can people begin to see what's behind us.
00:32:53.310 --> 00:33:09.690 Graham Dobbin: And what we're gonna do we're gonna go to every once we've got to every we're going to have a recap, and just a replay on some of the some of the the the guests that we've had in the past, just to give an insight on what they're thinking about where where we stand with.
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:28.590 Graham Dobbin: Leadership with that approach and with with how we can make sure that we're getting the most out of all the interactions that referred you listen to the mind bank leadership or life here on talk radio dot nyc my name is Graham dobbin and we'll go to the replays just after the break.