Extra Innings

Monday, May 17, 2021
Facebook Live Video from 2021/05/17 - Silent Suicide: A One on One with a Psychiatric Nurse

Facebook Live Video from 2021/05/17 - Silent Suicide: A One on One with a Psychiatric Nurse


2021/05/17 - Silent Suicide: A One on One with a Psychiatric Nurse

[NEW EPISODE] Silent Suicide: A One on One with a Psychiatric Nurse

Leah Johnston-Rowbotham is a nurse practitioner nationally board certified in behavioral health, a faculty member at Seton Hall University’s College of Nursing, and a published poet. She is a lecturer and group leader who now specializes in older women issues and practices throughout the tri-state area.

Johnston-Rowbotham has created, developed, and facilitates a weekly “STOOP TIME” group and most recently has begun a small but quite active poetry group for older women in her area. Membership only required a sense of adventure, a willingness to try something new, and the desire to test one’s own creativeness in a totally nonjudgmental environment. Leah resides in Montclair, NJ where she continues to write every day.

Tune in for this important conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by clicking here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

The show begins by introducing Leah JOhnston-Rowbotham who is a nurse practitioner. She got her start as a pediatric nurse and eventually found herself working in hospitals and psychiatric wards. She is also a faculty member at Seton Hall University. Later, she created the weekly “STOOP TIME” group that is currently run on Zoom. The group provides a safe space for people to discuss their worries and feelings. Currently, the groups are separated by gender because there are some topics that some individuals do not feel comfortable talking about while the opposite sex is present. The term “silent suicide” is discussed as well. The term was coined after reports of some elderly people were filed about their deaths. When some are living alone, they may start to feel down. This could lead someone to stop eating, stop going for walks and more which could lead to their own demise. The group helps combat this issue. When someone feels sad, they may start to feel like less than a person. Leah stresses that when treating a patient it is important to make them feel like an equal person before trying to diagnose someone.

Segment 2

Despite the age group, it is important for people to discuss their feelings and issues. Leah talks about how the elderly may be very lonely at times during the pandemic but they also have resilience due to their past experiences. They have had to deal with many other problems in the past that has trained them to be ready when money becomes a bit tighter and there is less food in the refrigerator. Oppositely, the younger generation has less of that resilience. Furthermore, Leah is a published poet. Albert also enjoys writing and loves how writing groups can make former strangers become close. It is a great way to express oneself. There are some details that people share with their group that they do not even share with their own families.

Segment 3

Next, Leah’s writing groups are brought up. The one that she is currently in is a mixed age group but the one she facilitates is for seniors. She stresses that there is a lot of encouragement but not false encouragement. If the writers are constantly being criticized, why would they want to return? The only requirements for the group is to have a love for writing and to be able to convert a concise thought into written words. When Albert was still working on his film Extra Innings, he found it really helpful for him to write the script. He said he would not even read what he wrote sometimes. He just found that writing made him happy. Sometimes when writing one might feel like one piece is really good while the others may not which is okay. It can be a big part of someone’s healing process. Both of them agreed that it is impossible to end suicide but it can be drastically reduced due to education. If a parent kills themselves, the child is much more likely to do the same because they feel like they were not good enough or they were the problem. Educating people could provide a solution.

Segment 4

To end the show, Albert tells the story of a police officer who was absent from work for a period of time due to his mental health. He attempted to kill himself multiple times and told his captain that he had back problems. Eventually, he tells the truth to his boss and also wants to confess to his colleagues. At first, the captain did not want him to because of what they would think but the officer explained how that is the problem. It should not matter what others think when discussing issues that carry such weight because what he has to say could save the lives of others. Once he got his group together to confess, some people walked out while others thanked him and said they had similar feelings. Some characteristics of depression can be found when an individual is going through many changes. They might begin sleeping all the time along with other strange behavior. In the case of elderly, it is isolation and making many “should have” statements. This is a sign that they are disappointed about their past mistakes.


00:00:41.610 --> 00:00:54.390 Albert Dabah: hi there, my name is Albert dabba welcome to the show extra innings covering all the bases, I am the host of extra innings and I am a life coach a therapist and a filmmaker.

00:00:55.590 --> 00:01:09.600 Albert Dabah: On extra innings we talk about many different subjects we talk about wellness mental health depression, anxiety suicide and how people deal with their.

00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:26.340 Albert Dabah: problems at hand how they cope with grief and how they hopefully get through it on extra innings we've had many different people on the show so far from all different phases of life we've had therapists life coaches artists.

00:01:27.420 --> 00:01:30.930 Albert Dabah: policemen entrepreneurs and many others.

00:01:32.130 --> 00:01:40.230 Albert Dabah: Tonight we have on our show Leah robotham Leah Johnston robotham and she is a.

00:01:41.910 --> 00:02:00.630 Albert Dabah: nurse practice nurse practitioner and behavioral health and we will speak to her in a minute I just like to first say that extra innings comes from a film that I may call the extra innings which is now on Amazon prime so when you have some time check it out so Leah.

00:02:01.890 --> 00:02:09.720 Albert Dabah: We had a chance to talk, the other day and I found our conversation very stimulating so welcome to the show tonight, how are you.

00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:16.350 Leah Rowbotham: Thank you so much i'm thrilled to be here and have this chance this opportunity and i'm fine Thank you.

00:02:18.150 --> 00:02:26.190 Leah Rowbotham: You said that you were hoping that give a little bit of of what i've done what I do well here's one of the problems, Albert i'm getting dangerously close to old.

00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.730 Leah Rowbotham: At 75 I think that I have to limit some of my history.

00:02:30.420 --> 00:02:46.920 Leah Rowbotham: I believe it or not, I started out as a pediatric nurse and i've gotten from everything as a sniffles nurse taking care of the sick children in daycare to very heavy duty nursing in the psychiatric unit in a very, very large city hospital.

00:02:48.570 --> 00:02:57.060 Leah Rowbotham: And then I ended up moving moving moving doing you know private therapy doing groups and groups has been my love and teaching at Seton hall university.

00:02:58.260 --> 00:02:59.760 Leah Rowbotham: I am right now on leave.

00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:18.240 Leah Rowbotham: And the work i'm doing right now is all volunteer and it's running groups for seniors so how did I end up running groups for seniors because all of a sudden, I realized that, from the time I was very young, there are always groups of people that I could share with.

00:03:19.260 --> 00:03:25.620 Leah Rowbotham: What I was going through with that particular time, teenagers with other teenagers, of course, I had adults, that I could.

00:03:26.010 --> 00:03:43.170 Leah Rowbotham: do other things and deal with and and when I was raising children, I was really fortunate, I had the other parents that were sitting in those tiny little desks during Back to School nights and waiting along little league lines and waiting outside of musics class or things like that.

00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:54.540 Leah Rowbotham: I had a grandmother who would you know, could you know Shell PS or read the evening paper you know out on the stoop out on the porch and talk to everybody that went by.

00:03:55.140 --> 00:04:05.640 Leah Rowbotham: And so I ended up calling a group that I found it and I call it the stoop group, because I found that a lot of women today that are older.

00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:15.150 Leah Rowbotham: did not have a place to share this phase of their life with other people, we also felt that it has to be private.

00:04:16.080 --> 00:04:26.130 Leah Rowbotham: And being a group therapist myself, and this is not a therapy group we don't call it group therapy, of course, it's therapeutic for all of us, but we don't call it group therapy.

00:04:26.700 --> 00:04:33.750 Leah Rowbotham: And we get to talk about what's going on, it might be something about an election, it might be something about cooking meals for one.

00:04:34.320 --> 00:04:43.050 Leah Rowbotham: But mostly it ends up about loss and how we deal with that, what do we deal with loss, how do we deal with isolation, how do we deal with.

00:04:43.410 --> 00:05:00.360 Leah Rowbotham: Not being as mobile, as we were, maybe even a year ago we deal with what's it like when you've had to leave your neighborhood that you've lived in, for you know 40 years what's it like to lose a partner what's it like even to lose a pet that's kind of been there to keep you company.

00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:09.720 Leah Rowbotham: you're grown children move far away and that's been very difficult for some people now during the pandemic because they couldn't even fly to see them.

00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.280 Leah Rowbotham: And that's been heartbreaking for some people, but.

00:05:15.570 --> 00:05:31.890 Leah Rowbotham: Amazingly this crew thanks to lifelong monk Claire and people like Michelle, to wit and monk Claire in the senior programs, has been able to help people figure out how to use the computers if they weren't already using them.

00:05:32.310 --> 00:05:39.210 Leah Rowbotham: and get on zoom and we have literally at 330 every Wednesday afternoon still run stoop.

00:05:40.050 --> 00:05:53.280 Leah Rowbotham: Well, so great our ladies have still been there and they still come to group, and with that kind of isolation, I think that these kind of programming has been really important, they still have a place to me.

00:05:53.850 --> 00:05:54.870 Albert Dabah: Well that's wonderful so.

00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:55.590 Albert Dabah: it's all done.

00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:01.620 Albert Dabah: As well done on zoom right now, during this time and it's only women it's not it's just.

00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.350 Leah Rowbotham: That particular group is just women, yes, I think.

00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:06.330 Leah Rowbotham: We need somebody to start a men's group to.

00:06:07.950 --> 00:06:12.240 Leah Rowbotham: Because there's something's not going to talk about with a group of women in the room, and vice versa.

00:06:13.140 --> 00:06:16.680 Albert Dabah: You know it's interesting because I find that a.

00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:27.300 Albert Dabah: Certain to my girlfriend who actually also lives in montclair and we were talking about the fact that about friends, and it seems that advice, I know, in my case.

00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:42.900 Albert Dabah: I have some really good friends, but I don't have like she has so many different friends and she said to me, she has found with her men in the past that she's been with that it's similar that women seem to have more.

00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:54.150 Albert Dabah: And I don't know if that's overall, but that they usually have more friends than men have friends and that's why I mentioned, you know you know, this is only for women, because I think.

00:06:54.780 --> 00:07:12.060 Albert Dabah: And i'm not sure why any men don't I mean I talked to some good friends on a regular basis, but there's not a whole group now and then i'll talk to other ones, but maybe men just don't open up as much or don't have that opportunity or don't take the opportunity i'm not sure.

00:07:12.810 --> 00:07:19.140 Leah Rowbotham: I think it's changing though I think the generation that we raised is very, very different than our generation.

00:07:19.590 --> 00:07:26.310 Leah Rowbotham: But I, I know that most of my brothers were raised, as you know you don't talk about it there's no such thing as you know.

00:07:27.090 --> 00:07:36.480 Leah Rowbotham: Opening up to somebody else about what's bothering you, you know you have to be strong, you have to be you know strong willed quiet about what's going on and.

00:07:37.260 --> 00:07:45.630 Leah Rowbotham: You know, especially I was raised in an Irish catholic family somebody told me once that in the Irish language, there was no word for depression.

00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:47.760 Albert Dabah: really well.

00:07:47.820 --> 00:07:53.670 Leah Rowbotham: I don't know, since that there's been one but yeah yeah it's interesting when you think about.

00:07:53.760 --> 00:08:05.400 Albert Dabah: It is it's really interesting I mean there's so many things like i'm part of this group that i've been in and out of a group that people have lost their loved ones to suicide, and I was.

00:08:06.330 --> 00:08:18.090 Albert Dabah: In one of the groups last week and I actually was amazed to see that I think it's been maybe a few months that I hadn't been there, but none of the people that I had known from before are there now but it's a whole new group of people.

00:08:18.630 --> 00:08:27.390 Albert Dabah: And it's a big mixture of men and women who, you know i've recently or, more recently, have lost their loved ones, but there was a.

00:08:28.950 --> 00:08:35.580 Albert Dabah: A husband a wife, a daughter or a son to suicide, and you know it's one of the things that we've.

00:08:36.750 --> 00:08:52.530 Albert Dabah: talked about on the show and it's one of the things that I deal with in the film that I made you mentioned when we spoke, the other day, a something you call the silence was a silence suicide, I think I.

00:08:52.650 --> 00:09:07.950 Leah Rowbotham: can't own that term i'm not sure who started to use it right um I kind of have adapted it to what I see happening, sometimes with seniors that it's it's almost a miss diagnosed situation.

00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:17.220 Leah Rowbotham: somebody comes in, and they die of they they are diagnosed that they died of malnutrition, or they died of a heart attack they died of a stroke, they died of this and that.

00:09:17.790 --> 00:09:32.970 Leah Rowbotham: And one of the things that we have found is that you know people can kill themselves in very different ways, it can be a passive slow, it can be very different if I live by myself, I may stop eating.

00:09:34.020 --> 00:09:36.420 Leah Rowbotham: I may stop drinking and dehydrate.

00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:44.100 Leah Rowbotham: I might not take care of my diabetes, the way i'm supposed to I might stop going out for walks.

00:09:44.550 --> 00:09:52.920 Leah Rowbotham: I might not eat the food that i'm supposed to eat, I might stop taking my cardiac medication, I might not go to physical therapy anymore.

00:09:53.280 --> 00:10:05.760 Leah Rowbotham: I might not eat the meals on wheels that comes into the House, I might stop taking all the phone was or when I get the phone calls oh everything's fine i'm okay oh don't worry dear you don't have to come down today.

00:10:06.330 --> 00:10:14.040 Leah Rowbotham: No i'm okay yeah it's all right so there's there's a lot of hiding, and that can kill you.

00:10:14.610 --> 00:10:20.760 Leah Rowbotham: yeah isolation and that not taking care of yourself is very easily hidden very easily.

00:10:21.780 --> 00:10:24.960 Albert Dabah: Well, I remember, we were discussing last week.

00:10:27.030 --> 00:10:34.110 Albert Dabah: One of the things you mentioned, is that when you ask someone who do you love and what do you like to do that gives you a sense of.

00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:46.530 Albert Dabah: Where they're at if, especially if they don't have a response to that that they there's no one that they love and they don't there's nothing that they really like to do, obviously they're.

00:10:47.970 --> 00:10:56.130 Albert Dabah: Pretty pretty lost I would think they're they're on that verge of what am I living, for I would think i'm feeling really isolated and alone.

00:10:57.330 --> 00:11:17.880 Leah Rowbotham: I mean I whenever I did psych evaluations, especially you know, in the Community, and you know I could do the long you know the senior depression scales, the senior suicide skills, I could do all of those but what usually just hit me right in the gut was when I said, who do you love.

00:11:18.930 --> 00:11:22.830 Leah Rowbotham: If somebody has to hesitate with that answer.

00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:34.590 Leah Rowbotham: wow that's a really hard thing to not here to not hear an answer for that or what do you like and somebody can't tell you anymore yeah.

00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:41.880 Leah Rowbotham: I mean that's pretty sad and so so let's say we do get them into a group we can't make federal better.

00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:59.610 Leah Rowbotham: We can't find them their partner and and bring them back to them, but we can at least find other people who have been going through the same kind of feelings and have found some ways to make it a little bit lighter maybe make the hurt not as hurtful.

00:12:00.780 --> 00:12:01.260 Albert Dabah: yeah.

00:12:01.290 --> 00:12:03.330 Leah Rowbotham: know that it's not going to all go away.

00:12:04.350 --> 00:12:05.550 Leah Rowbotham: But it can be livable.

00:12:07.050 --> 00:12:11.400 Albert Dabah: So, in your in your when you were working.

00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:17.160 Albert Dabah: Before and now you're you're you were on leave you said you volunteer.

00:12:19.830 --> 00:12:35.580 Albert Dabah: Work working in psychiatry or working as a nurse, how does it differ from let's say someone who's seeing a therapist within let's say with these the people that you work with a in a hospital when you are working with them.

00:12:36.300 --> 00:12:44.160 Leah Rowbotham: i've worked in several different places, I had private clients that I did for years and I mostly did groups in my private work because.

00:12:44.910 --> 00:12:52.020 Leah Rowbotham: I just like groups and thank God, some people do still do group therapy it's really important there's not always enough therapist to go around.

00:12:53.010 --> 00:13:08.040 Leah Rowbotham: And sometimes it's easier to see it when other people are experiencing some of what i'm experiencing it's never quite the same everybody experiences something differently, but at least Maybe other people are going through some of it.

00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.350 Leah Rowbotham: So I did a lot of that and I loved it and i'm still working with groups.

00:13:14.400 --> 00:13:26.550 Leah Rowbotham: I also worked a lot with students on in psychiatric hospitals, right up in in montclair I mean in cedar grove at the Essex County hospital and.

00:13:27.030 --> 00:13:35.430 Leah Rowbotham: it's a great way to get students to be comfortable and to first see how you connect with another person not first see what their diagnosis is.

00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:46.260 Leah Rowbotham: No, this is not, you know, a schizophrenia, this is Tom Jones and tom's got a family and he was a beautiful baby born to somebody.

00:13:46.650 --> 00:13:55.590 Leah Rowbotham: And he was loved and cherished and you know played as a toddler and he's got parents that loved him, and this is a person.

00:13:56.280 --> 00:14:04.890 Leah Rowbotham: And once we can teach people to see someone else's a person first, then they can start to deal with a diagnosis.

00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:16.470 Leah Rowbotham: and decide, you know So how are we going to treat this, how can we help them feel better, and I think that's probably the most important thing, get the connectedness how are we connected rather than how are we different.

00:14:17.130 --> 00:14:26.520 Albert Dabah: Right now, I got it okay well well we're gonna take a break and we'll get back with Leah and just about a minute so stay tuned and thank you.

00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:28.950 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with Leah and we were talking about being connected.

00:17:30.300 --> 00:17:39.090 Albert Dabah: And I think that you know goes for any age group of where you're at in your life, whether you're.

00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:44.850 Albert Dabah: You know, a teenager which I think can be a really difficult time.

00:17:46.530 --> 00:17:52.020 Albert Dabah: going off to college or not going to college or figuring out what you want to do in life.

00:17:52.980 --> 00:18:12.300 Albert Dabah: Working your way through a job and maybe feeling you don't have the right job and connecting maybe with the people you're with a meeting, whether you you, you have a partner in your life, you get married you don't get married but you're living with someone or not, and how it feels.

00:18:13.770 --> 00:18:25.590 Albert Dabah: Without being with someone and then, as we get older, as you talk about seniors if you lose the person that you've been with three years or lose like even said a pet.

00:18:26.850 --> 00:18:29.610 Albert Dabah: What it feels like so.

00:18:30.810 --> 00:18:34.830 Albert Dabah: You mentioned with the seniors calling it.

00:18:36.450 --> 00:18:46.020 Albert Dabah: The calling it a silent suicide, and I was mentioning this to my friend, the other day i'm saying there's a really high rate of suicide and seniors.

00:18:47.370 --> 00:18:52.350 Albert Dabah: But I think one of the things that you mentioned that is so important is having groups that connect.

00:18:53.850 --> 00:19:01.650 Albert Dabah: At any of these age groups, because it gives you the opportunity to feel, and let me know what you think about it, that they're not alone with.

00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:21.900 Albert Dabah: Whatever feelings that they have because sometimes we can get so deep in these feelings and you know our mind can tell us all kinds of stories, which could be real, for us, but we're also seeing it just from one point of view so tell me what you think about that is that what you see.

00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:32.940 Leah Rowbotham: I think you're absolutely right, and I think if you think about how many times as a friend or somebody that's, not even a friend said something, and you said oh my God, I was just thinking about the other day.

00:19:33.540 --> 00:19:44.010 Leah Rowbotham: yeah I know exactly what you mean and if you're all by yourself and you're not talking to anybody else that's in the same situation or sees has the same perspective on something.

00:19:44.310 --> 00:19:58.410 Leah Rowbotham: You don't know that what you're thinking isn't you know so far fetched so yeah it's that connection, just like you just said it's it's what we all need and and also to know that our perception of things can be very different.

00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:13.680 Leah Rowbotham: I just read an article recently i'm so sorry no I don't know who to give it, you know give credit to, and it was saying that you know seniors have an easier time in many ways, through the pandemic than younger people.

00:20:15.300 --> 00:20:21.720 Leah Rowbotham: seniors had been through other hard times and had developed some coping skills through that.

00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.330 Leah Rowbotham: That younger people had.

00:20:25.530 --> 00:20:41.400 Leah Rowbotham: We knew some ways to do with less food in the refrigerator or eating things that maybe they weren't our favorite thing or using less of some things or not having all of our loved ones around us all the time, a lot of people had to learn that.

00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:52.470 Leah Rowbotham: younger people did not have people off it was off and, of course, now, you know who knows what's happening in our world we've had a very, very rough time the last year, so the last couple of years.

00:20:53.070 --> 00:20:58.530 Leah Rowbotham: But in many ways seniors had built up some of that resilience.

00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:06.360 Leah Rowbotham: That doesn't take away from the loneliness or isolation, but we do have more resilience in some ways than the younger ones.

00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:17.460 Leah Rowbotham: And that's why many of the seniors have said how worried, they are about their grandchildren because they've been taken away from you know the socialization process that they learn in school.

00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:32.160 Leah Rowbotham: they're not they're not with kids their own age um hopefully a lot of them got to play at least some sports, you know to be with other kids but that's been that's been a very traumatic experience for children being home by themselves.

00:21:33.330 --> 00:21:33.690 Albert Dabah: yeah.

00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:49.590 Albert Dabah: yeah for me, I know that sports was my savior in life and being able to play sports, I mean be a spectator, but I was, I was a player, I always played sports all kinds of sports and.

00:21:51.030 --> 00:21:56.580 Albert Dabah: You know I felt the the physical activity, but the social this.

00:21:57.840 --> 00:22:09.300 Albert Dabah: was just wonderful you know, like when you play on a team i've always said, like for me baseball with my main sport and being part of a team gives you a sense of sportsmanship and camaraderie and.

00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:19.500 Albert Dabah: You can be very competitive or not, as competitive, but there is competition that you're playing and if it's you know if it's in done in a way, where.

00:22:19.860 --> 00:22:32.070 Albert Dabah: You have a good coach who helps you deal with the ups and downs of winning and losing because that is just really important because you're always going to I mean in every sport there's going to be a loss.

00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:42.570 Albert Dabah: and learning how to deal with loss and that way, I think learns helps you learn how to you know deal with loss and many other ways.

00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:46.500 Albert Dabah: losing a companion in life.

00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:50.280 Albert Dabah: I know it's very difficult.

00:22:51.900 --> 00:23:08.670 Albert Dabah: From my own experience from reading other people's experiences and having different guests on the show who have lost their children to suicide and written books about it and gone through the healing process of grieving.

00:23:09.810 --> 00:23:12.630 Albert Dabah: it's very difficult, so I think that.

00:23:13.770 --> 00:23:16.920 Albert Dabah: groups can be exceptionally.

00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:23.490 Albert Dabah: helpful I joined a writing group, you mentioned i'd like to get into your talk about your writing group.

00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:30.900 Albert Dabah: I was lucky enough to take some writing groups with this woman Nancy irony, who was on to the show.

00:23:32.430 --> 00:23:44.220 Albert Dabah: I think one of my first guests on the show and I met her through this place called Paula which is up in lenox Massachusetts yoga meditation place and have all kinds of different.

00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:55.590 Albert Dabah: outlets there for wellness and she leads this writing group, where you she calls it.

00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:59.310 Albert Dabah: jumpstart your memoir writing from the heart.

00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:10.590 Albert Dabah: And it's about writing anything, and not just your memoir, but the main thing in that is writing from your heart and people so give a little phrase like.

00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:19.260 Albert Dabah: At dinner time we and then you'll write on your own for 1520 minutes each person has a chance to read it.

00:24:19.770 --> 00:24:33.300 Albert Dabah: Everyone has a chance to respond to what you have to someone reads it but there's a rule in the group that you can't say anything it's not about saying anything critical about what someone writes it's just about expression.

00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:42.840 Albert Dabah: and talking about what they liked what they heard and when the next person goes and the group would be every day for five days like about.

00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:55.050 Albert Dabah: Maybe six or six hours a day, seven hours a day with breaks in between or eight hours and the end of the week it was a five days workshop you felt like.

00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:10.680 Albert Dabah: amazing you felt like you knew all these people really well and we saw some people who, in the beginning of the week, no never even wrote before who really opened up, so I find writing as a great way of expression.

00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:15.180 Leah Rowbotham: To and I also think i've often said that.

00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.890 Leah Rowbotham: into writing groups and and i've been fortunate for that.

00:25:21.030 --> 00:25:28.560 Leah Rowbotham: dear dear poet that so many of us love and she's going to be honored forever Laura boss, if you ever get a chance to read some of her work.

00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:38.820 Leah Rowbotham: And I just honored her as as one of the best teachers i've ever met she recognized a special voice and everybody she ever taught or worked with.

00:25:39.510 --> 00:25:54.240 Leah Rowbotham: And I remember that there was no one ever criticized by her, she found something in every single thing that someone wrote in her class that said something very special.

00:25:54.570 --> 00:25:56.610 Albert Dabah: was her last and last.

00:25:57.630 --> 00:26:12.270 Leah Rowbotham: boss be OSS okay brilliant poet and we're all going to miss her, and I think the world is missing somebody very special with was someone who said something to all of us that everybody can hear.

00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:19.560 Leah Rowbotham: And I remember her saying one day that that writing can be a compression of what goes on in life and.

00:26:20.760 --> 00:26:28.260 Leah Rowbotham: that's what it is and we all laugh because I always say what I start the writing group that I now work with that.

00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:36.300 Leah Rowbotham: You really have to do some real privacy kind of stuff and really kind of keep what's in the writing group in the writing room.

00:26:36.780 --> 00:26:42.510 Leah Rowbotham: Because think about it, Albert what what comes out in writing groups, especially in poetry groups.

00:26:43.050 --> 00:26:53.190 Leah Rowbotham: Your own family doesn't know some of that stuff so you really get to know each other, probably better than anybody else knows you know you or you know themselves so.

00:26:53.850 --> 00:27:04.200 Leah Rowbotham: it's a real wash out for you it's wonderful it's a wonderful way to express yourself and when things are outside it gives you more perspective on them.

00:27:04.860 --> 00:27:16.830 Leah Rowbotham: it's easier to look at them and decide, maybe that's not so important anymore, maybe I don't have to keep that baggage on the inside, and I have more room for other things, when you write it down.

00:27:17.580 --> 00:27:26.460 Leah Rowbotham: you'll have time to look at it and time to move forward with other things and that's important when you're older you don't want to waste your time on everything that you've built up.

00:27:27.030 --> 00:27:43.950 Albert Dabah: yeah you know you just said something that made me think of a client that I had real quickly i'll tell you I had a client that I work with who had a huge loss in his life and a year before that I met with him, I met him virtually and.

00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:51.450 Albert Dabah: He told me when he first called me that he needed someone to vent to that he didn't know.

00:27:52.620 --> 00:28:05.460 Albert Dabah: And because, if you would tell someone he would knew they would start you know saying well you know you had this you had that or whatever they would say, but he wanted a stranger someone who was you know I.

00:28:06.510 --> 00:28:17.700 Albert Dabah: worked as a therapist and a life coach and still do and I found that really interesting and that's what he used the time for really ven we met for about eight sessions and.

00:28:18.150 --> 00:28:29.370 Albert Dabah: It was wonderful to see how he in that short time he grew, to the point he reached out to me, the other day and said, can you write me something I really need a support dog.

00:28:29.970 --> 00:28:46.590 Albert Dabah: And because he had dogs and he didn't have many more he lost them and I was very sweet I was really glad to do that so we'll be right back, we have another commercial coming up and we'll be back with Leah and just a minute, and thank you.

00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:51.990 Albert Dabah: Talk radio nyc.

00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:36.720 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with Leah.

00:31:38.070 --> 00:31:48.600 Albert Dabah: Leah so tell me a little bit about your writing groups, what do they like, and is there a certain age group in the in the Constitution of the group.

00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:56.430 Leah Rowbotham: Well, the ones that i'm in myself there's not it's a mixed age group, which has been really fun, but the one that.

00:31:56.970 --> 00:32:03.810 Leah Rowbotham: I facilitate is for seniors and it's added the senior activities program in montclair right now, although.

00:32:04.530 --> 00:32:13.770 Leah Rowbotham: You know we're not all from montclair and meet people from all over and come in, especially now that it's virtual so you know we've had people from other states, not just from you know.

00:32:13.860 --> 00:32:16.020 Leah Rowbotham: of other towns, but.

00:32:17.520 --> 00:32:34.020 Leah Rowbotham: We do the same way you just explained it, I give prompts people right for like 20 minutes, and then we share and you're absolutely right, there is no critical for cheap cannot be Why would somebody come back of if people are just going to criticize what they say.

00:32:35.130 --> 00:32:43.770 Leah Rowbotham: So there's a lot of encouragement, but not false encouragement I mean no one says that's, the best thing I ever heard in my life, I mean.

00:32:45.270 --> 00:32:54.270 Leah Rowbotham: People are going to know that's false I mean we say things like we pick out online, that was an exceptional use of words.

00:32:56.040 --> 00:33:01.620 Leah Rowbotham: When I asked people to come right with me, I had said, you only need to bring a sense of adventure.

00:33:02.670 --> 00:33:13.680 Leah Rowbotham: You have to have a real love of everyday words and you have to be willing to compress you know whole thoughts into fewer words.

00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:19.440 Leah Rowbotham: And they came and they wrote and we actually ended up.

00:33:20.760 --> 00:33:22.170 Leah Rowbotham: Making an anthology.

00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:32.730 Leah Rowbotham: And it was great and the last one, we did that we made up we called Panda mythology because who voted during the pandemic.

00:33:33.270 --> 00:33:43.740 Leah Rowbotham: And I printed them all out and everybody loved having copies of it, and I should send you one of the copies if it was just wonderful people were thrilled to have it.

00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:47.340 Albert Dabah: So these are writings of everyone in the group that you put.

00:33:47.910 --> 00:33:57.060 Leah Rowbotham: Everybody picked the writings they wanted to put in it yeah and the first one, they both of them, they did artwork that they had done or.

00:33:57.750 --> 00:34:07.530 Leah Rowbotham: photographs they had taken during that time, so it was a nice cup violation of people's work, and I think they were very proud of it, I know why was, I felt really.

00:34:07.950 --> 00:34:09.570 Albert Dabah: Great that's great I.

00:34:10.890 --> 00:34:22.140 Albert Dabah: When I wrote the film extra innings I wrote it over, believe it or not, 20 years it was not something I you know sat and wrote every day but i'll never forget what happened, I was, I will.

00:34:23.100 --> 00:34:33.780 Albert Dabah: I have a video production business close Simba productions was produced the film extra innings and I was doing a shoot following a was a health seminar.

00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:39.630 Albert Dabah: And I met a guy there who we have we connected, we talked a lot.

00:34:40.590 --> 00:34:48.660 Albert Dabah: And he said i'd love to come to your place and he came to my place and I showed him all around and at that point, I was pretty busy in my business and I had a large studio.

00:34:49.050 --> 00:34:57.060 Albert Dabah: And I showed him everything he goes to me says you don't seem very happy with what you're doing and I go Oh, and he would you get that for.

00:34:57.690 --> 00:35:10.500 Albert Dabah: But he was right, because what I really wanted to do was write my film, so I spoke to him about the film and he mentioned the book, you may have heard a video read it, the artist's way by Julia Cameron, have you ever.

00:35:10.530 --> 00:35:12.090 Leah Rowbotham: Yes, yes, yes.

00:35:12.540 --> 00:35:24.690 Albert Dabah: So I got the book and an act like a seminar with her at this place Apollo That was a have been Lennox and I started journaling every day.

00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:36.750 Albert Dabah: And that really led me to start working on the script and I didn't I it was it was just about every day that I would write something whatever came to my mind.

00:35:37.260 --> 00:35:44.700 Albert Dabah: And I never would even read what I wrote, I would just write and I found that if I was angry about something it was really great to just write.

00:35:45.810 --> 00:35:58.890 Albert Dabah: Even if I just felt I don't know what i'm just throw whatever it came to my mind, and I felt that and taking these workshops later actually I I finished the the screenplay before I took those workshops.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:11.010 Albert Dabah: But I found the whole connections, who writing to getting out my feelings and thoughts and putting it in a story, because it was based on a true story, so I knew what I was writing about.

00:36:11.610 --> 00:36:21.360 Albert Dabah: And I was able to consolidate it and i'll never forget the feeling I had when I really I felt I will 12 drafts and I shared it with many people and.

00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:26.100 Albert Dabah: One Professor told me, who I met from another friend and.

00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:30.600 Albert Dabah: She said to me, I met her for lunch and she hadn't read what I had written.

00:36:30.870 --> 00:36:46.200 Albert Dabah: But she said, if you get a lot of people saying the same thing about one section or one scene, take a look at it, because everyone's gonna have their own opinion and, obviously, this was a different kind of you know, this was working on a script that I wanted to make a film.

00:36:47.490 --> 00:36:52.860 Albert Dabah: And I it was great to show it to friends people in the business people, not in the business.

00:36:53.370 --> 00:37:04.110 Albert Dabah: And finally, when I finished it i'll never forget, I was on the beach, I was using my iPad at the time and I wrote the end, and this was the last draft and.

00:37:04.530 --> 00:37:19.830 Albert Dabah: I literally because I had done a lot of quite a bit of acting in theater and I wrote the end and I literally in my head, so all the actors in the script take a bow and it was such a beautiful feeling I had.

00:37:20.580 --> 00:37:22.530 Albert Dabah: wow yeah.

00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:35.280 Leah Rowbotham: yeah you know what I mean i've actually read some of my writing later on, and it wasn't that good, but I still felt good about having written it, you know it might have been something that I didn't do anything else with.

00:37:37.410 --> 00:37:43.380 Leah Rowbotham: After had written it, it was a good feeling to get rid of it, you know and then there's some stuff I want to keep forever.

00:37:45.330 --> 00:37:46.080 Leah Rowbotham: that's okay.

00:37:47.130 --> 00:38:08.580 Albert Dabah: yeah I think writing is such a good, healthy thing to do to so that's why I see that, like when you say like for have seniors to be able to sit and write it seems like a great way to for people to connect and and talk about that right, because I think a lot of feelings come out.

00:38:08.790 --> 00:38:13.620 Leah Rowbotham: When you when you rapid love the opportunity to be running more writing groups, I really would.

00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:31.830 Leah Rowbotham: So we have to see what we can do about that, but you know what there is one thing, though, that I also I forgot it before and think the statistics say that 58% of older people who actually do commit suicide.

00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:40.140 Leah Rowbotham: Within that month they have seen a doctor or somebody in their church or temple or mosque or whatever.

00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:44.370 Leah Rowbotham: And not set of thing about it.

00:38:46.740 --> 00:38:50.340 Albert Dabah: You know the word, what do you mean they they did mention.

00:38:50.370 --> 00:39:02.550 Leah Rowbotham: Where visit with them more chocolate and said nothing, nothing about how they were feeling, or what they had an intention to do really they might not even knew they had an intention to do that at the time.

00:39:03.270 --> 00:39:14.880 Leah Rowbotham: Just like a lot of times when you stop taking your meds or stop eating your you just don't want to eat you just don't want to take those but you're not not necessarily thinking of i'm going to kill myself.

00:39:16.170 --> 00:39:21.930 Leah Rowbotham: We have to remember that it's not always this intention to I think we have to remember that.

00:39:22.950 --> 00:39:34.470 Albert Dabah: Well, one yeah one of the things I had on Dr Dan rotenberg from the organization save which there their goal is to reduce the.

00:39:37.740 --> 00:39:39.420 Albert Dabah: reduce the stigma of.

00:39:40.710 --> 00:39:47.280 Albert Dabah: Mental illness and reduce the amount of suicide in the world and, as he said.

00:39:47.880 --> 00:40:02.610 Albert Dabah: On this program and I got to meet him many, many times because he was a fiscal partner in our film and he said to me that we know we cannot, we cannot end suicide, but we can reduce the amount of suicide by education and.

00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:16.290 Albert Dabah: I felt like that whole Stigma is so strong for people to talk about their deepest feelings of feeling of.

00:40:17.550 --> 00:40:30.270 Albert Dabah: The idea of being alone, and what they're thinking about if they're thinking of taking their lives and and I think that's why it's so important to keep in touch but that's an interesting statistic that you just said.

00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:37.350 Leah Rowbotham: i've changed, you who that's from to I think that's a Marilyn Mendoza she's a clinical.

00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:45.630 Leah Rowbotham: psych instructor at tulane university and she said it's important that we remember that, and in that same.

00:40:46.710 --> 00:40:58.170 Leah Rowbotham: Article The other thing that was mentioned, and so many people are saying it over and over again, and you talked about it when we were talking, the other day is that the when.

00:40:59.310 --> 00:41:05.250 Leah Rowbotham: A child even later into their adulthood much, much later if one of their parents.

00:41:06.540 --> 00:41:07.470 Leah Rowbotham: kills themselves.

00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:21.900 Leah Rowbotham: They are much more likely to commit suicide themselves, and we need to somehow rather do more education, and I think it's part of our.

00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:34.320 Leah Rowbotham: Our job as seniors to educate the next generation that people don't kill themselves as a personal you know vendetta against our children.

00:41:35.310 --> 00:41:42.720 Leah Rowbotham: And because children feel I wasn't enough for you that's why you killed yourself spouses feel you killed yourself, because I wasn't enough.

00:41:43.170 --> 00:42:01.950 Leah Rowbotham: with children, more so than anybody, even when they're animals feel that a parent left them that way because there weren't enough and we have to get rid of, you know that kind of thinking, if we can just buy education for will have more suicides at a later age.

00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:06.420 Albert Dabah: yeah I I really think education is the key to.

00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:17.010 Albert Dabah: really be able to get people to talk about what it is they're feeling and to let them and and groups are so important, if you can get someone in a group.

00:42:18.630 --> 00:42:25.020 Albert Dabah: And to really get it out there that it's it's okay to feel the way you feel.

00:42:26.250 --> 00:42:27.060 Albert Dabah: We had on.

00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:36.210 Albert Dabah: K Taylor last week, James Taylor sister, and she talked about how, when she went to see a therapist so she was angry.

00:42:36.660 --> 00:42:45.150 Albert Dabah: And the the therapist said, you know you're you're really angry and she said yeah I am and because, and he said, well, you have every right to be angry.

00:42:46.140 --> 00:42:58.320 Albert Dabah: And I said he validated the fact that you had a feeling that you were having and sometimes you need that extra help to tell you that it's okay.

00:42:58.890 --> 00:43:10.470 Albert Dabah: to feel what you're feeling for whatever reason why you're feeling it and then talk about it, and many people are, I think, are afraid to to really talk about their real feelings.

00:43:11.490 --> 00:43:17.190 Leah Rowbotham: yeah yeah once you say it out loud now it's open to judgment by others.

00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:19.170 Albert Dabah: yeah yeah and if.

00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:24.030 Leah Rowbotham: you're not confident in yourself that's just going to knock you down even more because you're afraid of that.

00:43:24.330 --> 00:43:26.130 Albert Dabah: yeah know exactly I think that's.

00:43:26.130 --> 00:43:28.290 Leah Rowbotham: great courage it takes courage to put.

00:43:28.290 --> 00:43:28.830 survive.

00:43:29.910 --> 00:43:34.800 Albert Dabah: yeah I want to tell you in when we come back from a break about.

00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:39.030 Albert Dabah: One of the people we had on the show who talks about.

00:43:40.770 --> 00:43:44.220 Albert Dabah: Telling the people that he worked with what he was going through and.

00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:56.340 Albert Dabah: What he was told, he was told by his boss, not to do it, but he did, and it it really changed his life so we'll be right back with Leah after this break Thank you Leah.

00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:01.710 Albert Dabah: nyc.

00:46:12.990 --> 00:46:14.280 Albert Dabah: hi we're back with Leah.

00:46:15.390 --> 00:46:19.440 Albert Dabah: We left off, where I was talking about, we were talking about.

00:46:20.670 --> 00:46:24.030 Albert Dabah: Being able to tell people how you feel.

00:46:25.710 --> 00:46:32.430 Albert Dabah: Whether it's a therapist or people that you're working with so we had a wonderful guy on the show.

00:46:33.450 --> 00:46:40.260 Albert Dabah: about a month ago, or so, and he wrote a book called overcome looking at the book right now called overcoming the darkness he sent me a copy.

00:46:40.830 --> 00:46:57.390 Albert Dabah: and His name was Eric Weaver he was a sergeant in the police force and he tried to take his life several times and by doing so, he had to be out from work and he told his Captain that.

00:46:58.650 --> 00:47:07.560 Albert Dabah: He was having back problems and, finally, he I think he tried to take his life man I think something like three times and.

00:47:08.010 --> 00:47:18.750 Albert Dabah: He finally went back to his captain and said the truth that he tried to commit suicide and but not only that he told him and he said I want, I want to tell the people that I work with.

00:47:19.410 --> 00:47:31.830 Albert Dabah: That that's that's why i've been out and the captain said you you can't do that, and he said well why because, because what will they think and his response was.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:49.140 Albert Dabah: As I remember his response was that's exactly what the problem is, we worry about what people will think, and I think it's important to let them know and he had a group together and he told them and he said, some people walked out.

00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:53.520 Albert Dabah: But most of the people that were there, who were his.

00:47:54.690 --> 00:48:01.680 Albert Dabah: People in the police fourth other policeman came up to him afterwards and talk to him about how they had similar feelings.

00:48:02.790 --> 00:48:12.540 Albert Dabah: Because in the police force suicide is very prominent and you know that's something I had never known, but it was a quite compelling story and now.

00:48:12.930 --> 00:48:22.980 Albert Dabah: he's retired from the police force and he does go out and talk to groups and people, including people in the police force, about the.

00:48:23.550 --> 00:48:36.990 Albert Dabah: about his own experiences and about how this is a very prominent feeling that many people have, and it has he's written this book and he really spends his time.

00:48:38.070 --> 00:48:46.710 Albert Dabah: teaching people about what it feels like what it was like for him and how to go through it, so I think he's an amazing guy for what he has done.

00:48:48.090 --> 00:48:49.350 Leah Rowbotham: very courageous person.

00:48:50.700 --> 00:48:59.190 Albert Dabah: yeah, I think, to be able to come out and some of the stories that he told me and i'm looking forward to reading his book so.

00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:12.090 Albert Dabah: You know, we sometimes we don't realize what you know the jobs that people have how they can really take a toll on us and not only on us on our family.

00:49:13.140 --> 00:49:25.110 Albert Dabah: So it's really important to again have that education to know that if you have something and that's one of the reasons why I started this podcast.

00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:34.830 Albert Dabah: was to be get that message out and to meet with people like yourself to talk about some of these problems that people have and how important it is to.

00:49:35.220 --> 00:49:43.770 Albert Dabah: find that place for yourself to be able to discuss whatever is going on with you in whatever way it is whether it's writing or going with therapist or.

00:49:44.910 --> 00:49:48.870 Albert Dabah: Any artistic way to to get your feelings out.

00:49:50.190 --> 00:50:00.360 Leah Rowbotham: And I think you're right and one of the things that we do in Stoke as we talk about sometimes just remembering to send a short note by regular mail.

00:50:01.140 --> 00:50:11.520 Leah Rowbotham: I know, to a grandchild and no to a friend, it can say, maybe just thinking of you today I love you today we're not doing those simple connections as much.

00:50:12.540 --> 00:50:20.310 Leah Rowbotham: We do so much texting and so much email that we forget what that feeling is like to get something dropped in a mailbox.

00:50:20.730 --> 00:50:31.500 Leah Rowbotham: But that's a sense of connection and seniors, we need to keep doing that seniors leave a legacy of how to connect and we leave a legacy of how to be kind.

00:50:32.100 --> 00:50:42.240 Leah Rowbotham: And we have to say, all those things out loud or in writing and then I think the senior group of poets, they need to leave back the legacy.

00:50:42.810 --> 00:50:58.260 Leah Rowbotham: So i'm just hoping that our meeting together in groups that we keep supporting each other and doing that that they know that we have something to give it's important that we give.

00:50:59.370 --> 00:51:02.460 Leah Rowbotham: And we have to make sure that they're doing that.

00:51:03.180 --> 00:51:07.830 Albert Dabah: yeah I know I think having that anthology is a wonderful thing to have for people.

00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:12.660 Leah Rowbotham: I have a picture of one, let me show you it'll show this is their last one.

00:51:12.930 --> 00:51:14.850 Albert Dabah: You saw the last one ology.

00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:18.660 Albert Dabah: Beautiful that's very cool yeah.

00:51:19.140 --> 00:51:28.170 Leah Rowbotham: yeah Nice and safe to to add those and that's really important so i'm very proud of it.

00:51:28.830 --> 00:51:34.200 Albert Dabah: yeah cuz I think it gives them, you know you have a book for something to remember by and something to keep.

00:51:35.490 --> 00:51:38.220 Leah Rowbotham: The legacy it's a piece of legacy to Dan.

00:51:38.970 --> 00:51:39.570 Albert Dabah: it's like.

00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:45.840 Albert Dabah: it's like having pictures of your family except, this is, these are writing this and feelings and thoughts.

00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:56.610 Leah Rowbotham: Exactly exactly so you know i'm so proud that they were able to put that out there, but all those feelings and thoughts and and everything down and they did it.

00:51:58.110 --> 00:52:03.960 Albert Dabah: yeah it is, it is something I how you know I mean i'm.

00:52:05.190 --> 00:52:07.020 Albert Dabah: I remember you know I keep thinking of.

00:52:08.190 --> 00:52:12.960 Albert Dabah: When you talk about it and stoop talk I think it's Is that what you.

00:52:13.380 --> 00:52:14.610 Leah Rowbotham: Just called still.

00:52:15.030 --> 00:52:15.750 Leah Rowbotham: still time.

00:52:16.830 --> 00:52:33.960 Albert Dabah: To time I can't I can't keep coming in my head, because I was lucky enough to live in his corner house in this neighborhood and there was always people walking by and even if I didn't talk to them, there was an acknowledgement like you know not high.

00:52:34.110 --> 00:52:41.970 Albert Dabah: He doing something like that, where I maybe didn't really know the person, but I recognize them person, even if I didn't know their name.

00:52:43.050 --> 00:52:55.920 Albert Dabah: Some I did some I didn't or sometimes someone say great catch you know and catching a ball soup, and you know, and I smile and myself, or I say thank you, you know, and it was a.

00:52:56.490 --> 00:53:08.040 Albert Dabah: It was a it was really a great time for me and i'm glad I have this shot in the film of the kid playing ball off the soup, because that was something I really wanted to have in there.

00:53:08.130 --> 00:53:22.830 Leah Rowbotham: yeah yeah and like you said it's a connection it's it's a time to be with one another and and we we might want to look if we're worried about somebody that's going into depression it's not always.

00:53:24.030 --> 00:53:32.550 Leah Rowbotham: The signs, we think what we have to look for our changes and that's important it might not be somebody who's losing weight.

00:53:33.240 --> 00:53:46.440 Leah Rowbotham: It can be somebody who's gained a lot of weight so it's it's changes it's a change in appetite it might not be somebody who's never sleeping it might might be they're sleeping all the time.

00:53:48.150 --> 00:54:00.210 Leah Rowbotham: It might be somebody who is no longer interested in sex at all, or it might be somebody who is really become you know they just always do not have enough sex.

00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:19.620 Leah Rowbotham: that's also a sign of depression, especially in teenagers and in the elderly, we will see the isolation, we will see a lot of should have would have could have you will hear an elderly senior person say with the really depressed.

00:54:20.700 --> 00:54:25.260 Leah Rowbotham: I should have gone to my granddaughter's christening.

00:54:26.580 --> 00:54:34.410 Leah Rowbotham: I should have done something different for my daughter, when I was raising her.

00:54:35.730 --> 00:54:48.120 Leah Rowbotham: If I could go back, I would have done this so there's a lot of that blame behavior and a lot of that carrying that around with them and that just keeps deepening the depression.

00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:51.030 Albert Dabah: yeah so.

00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:58.050 Leah Rowbotham: Those are the kind of things we have to look for to it's not all the things we used to see in the books does that make sense.

00:54:58.080 --> 00:55:01.770 Albert Dabah: yeah no, it makes a lot of sense I think what you're talking about is very real.

00:55:02.910 --> 00:55:03.840 Albert Dabah: I think that's a.

00:55:05.370 --> 00:55:08.010 Albert Dabah: You know it's I mean I should have I could have.

00:55:09.570 --> 00:55:20.820 Albert Dabah: I I think I used to say, a lot of that at one point and i'm thinking now that you know I I know i'm in a better place now than I have been before.

00:55:22.770 --> 00:55:29.400 Albert Dabah: And, but i've worked hard to be there and I think, for me, for instance, making the film.

00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:36.660 Albert Dabah: It wasn't just cathartic you know, some people said that it was a closure for you and I said no wasn't closure for me.

00:55:37.740 --> 00:55:48.270 Albert Dabah: It was really an expression, for me, and it was it was a gift that I think that I gave to myself to honor my brother and sister and.

00:55:50.790 --> 00:55:57.420 Albert Dabah: Let the world know about them, because my brother, no one people didn't really know much about him and.

00:55:57.930 --> 00:56:06.600 Albert Dabah: The gifts that I got from him and the gifts that I got from my sister, so I believe, for me that I should have I could have and all that stuff that.

00:56:06.930 --> 00:56:23.070 Albert Dabah: That doesn't mean there might be come up here and there now and then I should have done it I could have you know, but on maybe some small things, but overall i've come to peace with with what happened in my own family and want to pass on.

00:56:24.090 --> 00:56:35.670 Albert Dabah: How to get through it with other people so we're actually coming to the end of our show, so I am so happy to have talked to you today, it was really enlightening.

00:56:37.290 --> 00:56:39.990 Albert Dabah: I felt like we just did our own stoop talk.

00:56:40.890 --> 00:56:49.230 Leah Rowbotham: We did I just it was so wonderful being here, it really was it was delightful you're gonna have to bring all my poets in.

00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:51.450 Leah Rowbotham: Okay yeah.

00:56:51.780 --> 00:56:59.730 Albert Dabah: Okay, well, thank you so much for being on the show tonight I thank mark schoenfeld for letting me know about you and.

00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:15.120 Albert Dabah: And for everyone out there, please tune in again we're live every Monday at six o'clock and catch extra innings on Amazon prime when you have a chance, have a good night Thank you so much for being on the show ya bye bye bye bye.

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