Tuesdays 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EDT)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
Are you the kind of person who takes pride in sticking it out during difficult work situation to the point where you don’t always know when it’s time to move on or have any strategy for how to know when to endure and when to move on? We can definitely all grow from those tough experiences. But there is also growth in the wisdom gained from knowing how to strategically use the right timing to move on.
WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
Dr. Sonja Batten has taken multiple bold moves in her career, moving across sectors and leadership roles. In this episode, we'll take an insider's look into what one leader learned (good and bad) about taking big leaps, especially when others might not.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Dr. Sonja Batten is an experienced and transformational leader, with demonstrated success in the private sector consulting, government health care, and nonprofit industries. Sonja has provided her unique blend of candid, decisive, and sometimes vulnerable leadership in policy, administrative, clinical, research, and academic contexts, having served as an executive at a Fortune 500 company, a Chief Clinical Officer at a fast-growing nonprofit, and a Senior Executive in the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. She was also the first Deputy Director of the Defense Centers of Excellence for Psychological Health and Traumatic Brain Injury, as well as the first Associate Director for Women’s Health Research at Yale University. In addition to being a licensed clinical psychologist, she is also a Certified Executive Coach, and Change Management Practitioner, and provides training to mental health practitioners around in the world on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Dr. Batten has expertise in
authentic leadership style and voice and has authored two books and dozens of scientific articles.
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LINKS:
www.gotowerscope.com
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-hard-skills-dr-mira-brancu-m0QzwsFiBGE/
www.flexibleedgesolutions.com
www.sonjabatten.com
#FederalCareer
#FindingYourVoice
#CareerPath
#ItsAllInTheTiming
#TheHardSkills
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
In this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu explores the challenge many leaders face: knowing when to endure through difficulties versus when it’s time to make a bold transition. Joined by Dr. Sonja Batten—an accomplished executive across federal, corporate, and nonprofit sectors—they reflect on career-defining decisions, the power of mentorship, and the courage required to embrace high-stakes leadership opportunities. Their stories highlight how strategic leaps, ethical clarity, and willingness to step into uncertainty can shape a purpose-driven and resilient leadership path.
In this segment of The Hard Skills, Dr. Sonja Batten opens up about making bold career decisions—even when they defy conventional expectations or prestige. Despite holding powerful leadership roles, including Deputy Chief of Mental Health Policy at the VA and a faculty position at Yale, she describes how misalignment with values, political interference, and energy-draining responsibilities prompted her to walk away. Her story emphasizes the importance for high-achieving leaders to trust their instincts, recognize when their talents are being underutilized, and prioritize mission-aligned work over status or security.
In this segment of The Hard Skills, Dr. Sonja Batten and Dr. Mira Brancu discuss the mindset and strategies that empower high-achieving professionals to confidently navigate career transitions, especially within rigid structures like the Federal Government. They emphasize the importance of trusting your instincts, cultivating a strong support network, and assessing both practical needs and emotional well-being when deciding whether to stay or go. Leaders are encouraged to recognize when their values no longer align with their environment and to understand that evolving priorities over time are natural—and not a sign of failure, but growth.
In this closing segment of The Hard Skills, Dr. Sonja Batten and Dr. Mira Brancu emphasize the importance of recognizing not only toxic environments but also toxic personal coping patterns that can silently erode well-being over time. They encourage leaders to assess whether their roles are still aligned with their values, energy, and health, and to seek feedback from trusted people who might notice shifts they can’t see in themselves. Ultimately, the conversation underscores that endurance in leadership isn't just about persistence—it's about self-awareness, recalibration, and knowing when to make values-driven decisions for long-term fulfillment and growth.
00:00:51.710 --> 00:01:11.240 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills show where we take a deep dive into the most challenging soft skills required to navigate leadership, uncertainty, complexities and change today and into the future. I'm your host, Dr. Mira Branku, psychologist, leadership, consultant and founder of Towerscope.
00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:22.250 Mira Brancu: So are you. The kind of person who takes pride in sticking it out during difficult work situations to the point where you don't always know when it's time to move on
00:01:22.490 --> 00:01:28.580 Mira Brancu: or have any strategy for how to know when it's time to endure versus when it's time to move on.
00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:53.260 Mira Brancu: That is what we are talking about today, and what's going to be really fun and special for today's conversation. Aside from the hair color of my guest today, which is fabulous. If you're going to listen to this later. It's dyed a really cool pink on the bottom. But what's really fun and special for today, in addition to that, is that I recall marveling
00:01:53.340 --> 00:02:22.350 Mira Brancu: at the decisions that our guests made in her career leaps. And when she went from leadership role to leadership role, and how she made those decisions. Where? Where, you know some leaders what might not have taken those leaps. And I've made some of the same kinds of leadership changes and decisions. So we're going to be comparing notes and sharing our combined insights. And I think it's a really great fit for this season's focus on endurance in leadership. So
00:02:22.570 --> 00:02:41.389 Mira Brancu: talking with us today about this topic is Dr. Sonia Batten. Dr. Batten is an experienced and transformational leader, having served as an executive at Fortune 500 company, a chief clinical officer at a fast growing nonprofit and a senior executive in the Us. Department of Veterans Affairs.
00:02:41.420 --> 00:02:53.449 Mira Brancu: She was also the 1st deputy director of the defense centers of excellence for psychological health and traumatic brain injury, and the 1st associate director for Women's Health Research at Yale University.
00:02:53.580 --> 00:03:06.049 Mira Brancu: She's also a licensed clinical psychologist, a certified executive coach and change management practitioner, and also provides training to mental health practitioners around the world on acceptance and commitment therapy.
00:03:06.310 --> 00:03:19.719 Mira Brancu: She has expertise in veteran mental health, suicide, prevention, and helping emerging leaders find their authentic leadership, style, and voice, and has authored 2 books and dozens of scientific articles. If you haven't picked up.
00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:36.759 Mira Brancu: She has many, many interests, and well, beyond that, many other interests outside of the world of the professional world as well. We were just talking about all of our ways of having fun as well, so welcome and great to have you on the show, Sonya.
00:03:37.040 --> 00:03:39.870 Sonja Batten: I am excited to be here. Mira!
00:03:39.870 --> 00:03:45.729 Mira Brancu: Yeah, me, too. Me, too. Okay, so let's talk about how we met.
00:03:45.870 --> 00:04:07.799 Mira Brancu: Because I do think that's a really interesting way to start how I got to start seeing your own career trajectory where we met I was working at one of the Department of Veterans Affairs, 17 Mental health centers of excellence, and I was just starting out in my own sort of management career as a managing director of the a post deployment, mental health study.
00:04:07.990 --> 00:04:18.645 Mira Brancu: and you were at that time already a senior executive, and I think, probably a fairly fairly early in your career. You rose to that level and
00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:37.009 Mira Brancu: You were doing site visits for all of these centers of excellence, providing feedback about our, you know, metrics and productivity and outcomes. And you know how we sort of demonstrated and communicated our work, you know, to make an impact. And so
00:04:37.180 --> 00:04:40.160 Mira Brancu: let's start with how you got
00:04:40.320 --> 00:04:49.089 Mira Brancu: to that level. The sort of decisions that you made, and what you learned from kind of like those leaps and changes.
00:04:49.870 --> 00:05:10.719 Sonja Batten: Sure. So let's see. So where where to start? Because I know I know. I think we'll go backwards a little bit at some point. But, as you said, I'm a clinical psychologist, and I specifically had an interest when I started my graduate training in working with individuals who had been through traumatic events.
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:20.090 Sonja Batten: And so I picked a graduate program based on that and my very 1st summer of graduate school
00:05:20.130 --> 00:05:42.940 Sonja Batten: in between my 1st and second year. It was like time to find a summer job, and there's very little that you can do that you're actually qualified to do that's still in the field of mental health when you're starting off like that. And but there were a handful of summer internships at the Reno Va. And so I applied, and I got one of those 4 summer internship positions.
00:05:42.940 --> 00:05:43.610 Mira Brancu: Wow!
00:05:43.610 --> 00:05:49.729 Sonja Batten: And and I didn't really know what I was getting myself into.
00:05:50.340 --> 00:06:16.240 Sonja Batten: and I started working for the Department of Veterans Affairs. That 1st job started 10 days before my 21st birthday. So so literally, my, I can. I can truly say that my entire career has been focused on on veteran mental health. And so I took that job really, just because it was the only job I could sort of get that was relevant. But I would say, within 2 days I fell in love with working with the veterans
00:06:16.660 --> 00:06:27.500 Sonja Batten: I mean like that and and really, although I always maintained my my interest in just trauma in general.
00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:51.710 Sonja Batten: I especially loved working with veterans, and and so you know. So I did. A variety of, you know, went to graduate school, did my internship, my postdoc took took my 1st job, which I think we'll talk about in a few minutes, but then, for my second job. I ended up at the
00:06:52.260 --> 00:06:59.949 Sonja Batten: Va. Maryland healthcare system in Baltimore, overseeing the Ptsd programs there and
00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:21.189 Sonja Batten: And and so, anyway, I love. I loved that job. It was great, and one day I came back to my office, and I had a voicemail from one of probably the the most important mentor that I ever had, Tony Zeiss. She wasn't my mentor yet then, but I had a voicemail from her, and she said in her
00:07:21.390 --> 00:07:27.529 Sonja Batten: inimitable Tony way. Hi, Sonya, this is Tony Zeiss.
00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:33.819 Sonja Batten: I'm calling with an opportunity for you. Give me a call back when you get a chance.
00:07:33.880 --> 00:07:56.380 Sonja Batten: And basically, what had happened was this was the summer of 2,007, and for anyone who was paying attention to military health issues, or who lived in the Washington DC. Area at that time. That was when the Walter Reed scandal happened where? So Walter Reed was the biggest military medical center.
00:07:56.380 --> 00:08:21.369 Sonja Batten: and it was found to have really terrible environment of care issues, you know, mold on the walls. Dirt, you know, completely outdated, you know, living situation for the service members who were there, and that triggered Congress all of a sudden, in the summer of 2,007, to start paying attention to veteran
00:08:21.370 --> 00:08:22.290 Sonja Batten: issues
00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:49.180 Sonja Batten: and and especially veteran mental health issues. And so they Congress appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars that summer to Ptsd post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury. Tbi for veterans and service members. And so all of a sudden, the Department of Veterans, Affairs, and Department of Defense had to figure out what to do with all that money.
00:08:49.400 --> 00:09:18.470 Sonja Batten: and it sounds like a good problem to have. But wow! Is that a big challenge? And so they decided to start with what they called a red cell, which was a team of one Ptsd focused person and one traumatic brain injury focused person from each of the 4 military services and from Va. So Tony was calling to see if I would be the Va Ptsd person.
00:09:18.470 --> 00:09:19.527 Mira Brancu: On their rooms,
00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:33.000 Sonja Batten: For for the next 4 or 5 months and I lived in Baltimore, and it would mean commuting to DC. But I was like, Yep, put me in. I'm I'm ready. I don't. I don't even know what I'm agreeing to, but that sounds awesome.
00:09:33.530 --> 00:09:35.790 Sonja Batten: and and it
00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:59.930 Sonja Batten: I mean probably my learning curve during those 5 months is like you couldn't even graph that learning curve. But that's really where I got interested in working with the Department of Defense and Active Duty personnel. Anyway, Yada Yada did that did that for about 5 months. On that red cell. We made some recommendations about how Va. And Dod could spend 300 million dollars.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:20.440 Sonja Batten: and then I went back to my regular job. But then there was this opportunity to be the deputy director of the new Defense Centers of excellence for Psychological Health and Tbi. So I did that for 2 years. Again, that was one of those jobs as we talk about.
00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:49.949 Sonja Batten: You know how to make decisions. To leave. That was, you know, also an interesting process of deciding to leave that job. But but you're asking about how I got to the job where I'm so then I did that job at the center of excellence for 2 years. And then again, there were some leadership shifts in the Central Oversight office for developing Va. Mental health policy, and Tony Zeiss was going to
00:10:49.950 --> 00:11:19.360 Sonja Batten: take on the role of the chief officer for Va. Mental health, and she asked me to leave the position I was in and come over to be one of her 2 deputies. So that's how I got there, and and really the life lesson that I would share, especially with more junior folks, is the. Here's the only reason that Tony Zeiss knew who I was.
00:11:19.610 --> 00:11:47.210 Sonja Batten: I had never trained. I had met her before, like I knew who she was. She didn't know who I was, except the year before that at a conference that you know, sort of academic psychology people would go to. I had asked her, just out of the blue with a lot of Chutzpah if if she would be the discussant on a panel. I was admitting to the conference
00:11:47.310 --> 00:12:09.990 Sonja Batten: and and she agreed to do that. She was on the panel. I guess the panel went okay, so that then, when there was this opportunity and they needed to pull somebody in for this opportunity, she thought of me, but it's only because I sort of took that bold opportunity to ask her if she would be a discussant, that she thought of me.
00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:11.570 Mira Brancu: Amazing yeah.
00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:21.490 Sonja Batten: Yeah. So I ended up at Va Central office and and yeah, and we can we can get into. Then how I came to know who you were.
00:12:21.490 --> 00:12:29.909 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. And well, I can pick up from there, because you know, 1st of all, for for those who.
00:12:30.410 --> 00:12:36.288 Mira Brancu: you know plenty of of you don't know who Dr. Tony Zeiss are is
00:12:36.970 --> 00:12:51.276 Mira Brancu: She, I believe, was the 1st psychologist to serve, and the 1st woman psychologist to serve as chief officer of Mental health within the Department of Veterans affairs. So that alone, you know.
00:12:52.010 --> 00:13:10.299 Mira Brancu: is an amazing experience, you know, to be plucked by, you know, and have like mentorship, right? And I think the the connection with you know my own experience is that is how I came to get to know you as well is that I had
00:13:10.861 --> 00:13:19.139 Mira Brancu: you know somebody who self appointed himself as my mentor, Dr. John Fairbank, of the center of excellence where I was working, and
00:13:19.754 --> 00:13:40.835 Mira Brancu: he saw things in me that I did not see in myself, and there there came a time when there was a lot of turmoil at another center. And you know plenty of other people were asked to help and declined. And so it's sort of like you had put out the call. Who is willing to go there and help with this? You know.
00:13:41.884 --> 00:13:54.509 Mira Brancu: center that was under, you know, high turmoil and and volatility, and you know, offered some support, and John put my name forth, and we you and I talked and.
00:13:54.510 --> 00:14:02.390 Sonja Batten: And and to be specific, I said, I need somebody who is not going to be easily rattled.
00:14:02.650 --> 00:14:03.380 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:14:03.818 --> 00:14:27.519 Sonja Batten: Somebody who can sit sort of in ambiguity. But at the most important thing is somebody with the highest level of of ethics, I said content, wise and leadership wise. We'll make sure that the person has whatever they need and the support so they can learn. But but those things can't be taught.
00:14:28.010 --> 00:14:35.730 Mira Brancu: Fascinating, so interesting. I never heard that part of the story. That's amazing. So, anyway, all I heard was, John said.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:40.379 Mira Brancu: Mira has the raw materials. So I guess those are the raw materials.
00:14:40.380 --> 00:14:41.760 Sonja Batten: Raw materials. Yeah.
00:14:42.490 --> 00:14:48.589 Mira Brancu: And so I think one of the things that another thing that we could take away from this is how
00:14:49.390 --> 00:15:18.930 Mira Brancu: you know how much mentorship and sponsorship can help, especially women and underrepresented folks. Have those opportunities, but also being open and willing to look for opportunities and jump into an opportunity, despite how scared we are right because of our interest in being stretched and challenged, and desire to grow. And I think that is an important part of this as well. So
00:15:19.030 --> 00:15:32.628 Mira Brancu: we're reaching an ad break when we come back. I'd love to sort of get into a few other sort of pivotal moments in your life where you had to make these big decisions and what you pulled from them. And
00:15:33.140 --> 00:15:52.180 Mira Brancu: you're listening to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sonia Batten. We air on Tuesdays at 5 Pm. Eastern at that time. If you're here right now, at that time you can find us live streaming on Linkedin Youtube twitch and several other locations@talkradio.nyc. And we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:17:34.330 --> 00:17:49.009 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with my guest today, Dr. Sonia batten. So, Sonia, before we go backwards to a few other really interesting pivotal moments. I want to sort of move us forward just a little bit
00:17:49.110 --> 00:18:07.970 Mira Brancu: after this. You were in this role, and I saw you. You know, traveling around, providing lots of feedback people looking to you to provide guidance around how to strengthen the centers of excellence and the value that they provided.
00:18:08.570 --> 00:18:11.350 Mira Brancu: you decided to leave Va.
00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:27.030 Mira Brancu: And it was at a moment at a time when you could have easily continued and gone higher and higher in leadership. Roles like that was clear that you could have continued on that trajectory. And so and
00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:29.049 Mira Brancu: at that time it was
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:41.510 Mira Brancu: fairly unconventional to leave Federal Government employment. People stuck around forever and right, you know, like that that still happens to this day. But
00:18:42.307 --> 00:18:48.632 Mira Brancu: not as common for sure. Back then. So. That was probably
00:18:49.430 --> 00:18:56.250 Mira Brancu: a surprise to a lot of people for many reasons. Right? And so I am really curious.
00:18:56.630 --> 00:19:06.960 Mira Brancu: How did you come to that decision. What pressures were you experiencing? What? What objections were you facing? And how did you still sort of like feel like? No, this is the right thing for me.
00:19:08.210 --> 00:19:10.629 Sonja Batten: Yeah. So like I said, I mean, I I
00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:21.319 Sonja Batten: literally fell in love with working with veterans. I I you know I I loved working in the Va. Worked in many different Va. Hospitals. And then I, you know, I went to Va. Headquarters
00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:45.049 Sonja Batten: and that job that I had when I met you. Not only was I overseeing those centers of excellence that was just a part of what I was doing. I was the deputy chief in charge of all specialty, mental health policy for the entire department of Veterans Affairs. So we had, like a 7.5 billion dollars service line, 21,000 mental health employees, and we were setting policy for
00:19:45.050 --> 00:19:49.070 Sonja Batten: how those mental health employees would carry out their jobs
00:19:49.170 --> 00:20:08.240 Sonja Batten: sort of in the best interest of veterans. The best job I've ever had. I would still say that even even to my even to my current employer, because it just had such breadth. And as another one of our mentors, Paul Schner once said, you just get to paint with such a big paint.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:08.610 Mira Brancu: Fresh.
00:20:08.870 --> 00:20:16.820 Sonja Batten: You know, like there's nothing there's nothing like it. It was just a an amazing honor and opportunity to have that job
00:20:17.330 --> 00:20:18.420 Sonja Batten: and
00:20:20.770 --> 00:20:49.790 Sonja Batten: Toward the end of my time there. So I was in that role for 4 years, and then Tony Zeiss, who we've talked about. She retired, and I got asked to be the acting chief officer for mental health. So I did that for for 9 months, and again it was. It was great in many ways. The part that I could not stand, though.
00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:53.970 Sonja Batten: is the influence of politics
00:20:54.220 --> 00:21:03.640 Sonja Batten: in what we were being asked to do, and it seems honestly sort of ridiculous to say that now, because.
00:21:03.840 --> 00:21:29.560 Sonja Batten: like, it's like hardly even comparable. But it was the same. It was the same thing that I could not stand. And and also, you know, I got I got experience that was like, on the one hand, cool experience I got to like testify in front of Congress, and I'm not a shrinking violet. I don't mind public speaking. If people actually want to hear what I have to say.
00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:53.479 Sonja Batten: answer hard questions, I can roll with the punches. But you know what? When you testify to Congress, that is not what's happening. You are there for political theater. You are a pawn for both sides of the aisle trying to make their points. They don't really actually care what you have to say, and and just the level of political
00:21:55.150 --> 00:21:56.590 Sonja Batten: interference
00:21:56.730 --> 00:22:12.470 Sonja Batten: with trying to set policies, even from an administration that I very much respected I did not appreciate, and and it just kept escalating and escalating and escalating. And I finally was like.
00:22:13.060 --> 00:22:23.539 Sonja Batten: I'm not doing this anymore. I I'm not meant to be anyone's pawn and I, you know there are other things I can be doing with my time.
00:22:23.540 --> 00:22:24.800 Sonja Batten: Yeah, thank you.
00:22:24.800 --> 00:22:30.749 Sonja Batten: And I had been somebody who had expected to be in Va. My entire career. I had expected.
00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:46.759 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And can I just sort of add, I'm I'm resonating with this because after you, there was one person in between Wendy Tenhula. She did an amazing job. I had the opportunity to
00:22:47.040 --> 00:23:12.189 Mira Brancu: support her for for many years, and that led to a point in time when I applied for that position and was offered the position, and I actually declined it, which, of course, to everybody's shock and dismay, and mainly because of some of the same reasons. I did not want to spend my time arguing with Congress
00:23:12.470 --> 00:23:20.440 Mira Brancu: because and and I loved so many parts of what I was doing supporting that role, but it would
00:23:20.570 --> 00:23:29.919 Mira Brancu: fully take me away from all the things that I loved so much about being in the support role for that role.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:30.580 Sonja Batten: Yeah.
00:23:31.260 --> 00:23:34.610 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So let keep going with so.
00:23:34.610 --> 00:23:58.520 Sonja Batten: So. Yeah. So anyway, I mean, I had been, I had been, you know, getting less and less satisfied, more and more frustrated, and sort of noticing that. And then I think, you know, when I think about leaving most of these jobs, there's usually a moment where my gut just tells me. We're done and and I remember
00:23:58.630 --> 00:24:21.899 Sonja Batten: that moment for this job. I was in a senior leader's office, and this senior leader was trying to convince me to stay in that chief officer role permanently, you know, to apply for and and, you know, stay in that role permanently. And I was just. I could not, I guess, convey to this person
00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:34.069 Sonja Batten: how how problematic I felt like some parts of it were, and I didn't feel like they were going to support me, and then and then this is somebody that I respect very much. But in that moment they said.
00:24:34.570 --> 00:24:40.990 Sonja Batten: Come on, Sonya, just do something for the organization for a change. And I was like, what
00:24:42.020 --> 00:24:49.299 Sonja Batten: like, I've been giving my body and mind and spirit to this job.
00:24:49.510 --> 00:24:55.619 Mira Brancu: For a long time, and to say something like that. That was just the end of it for me.
00:24:55.620 --> 00:24:56.050 Mira Brancu: Hmm!
00:24:56.050 --> 00:25:07.289 Sonja Batten: Because not out of spite, but just because it sort of crystallized that it didn't matter how much of myself I gave. It was never going to be enough.
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:16.779 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. So so a a lot of what helped you make this decision and be. And for it to be so clear was
00:25:18.150 --> 00:25:35.150 Mira Brancu: feeling like the things that you that mattered most to you were underappreciated, and the things that mattered most to others you found mostly frustrating, and that was such a disconnect or misalignment between values and desires and goals.
00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:42.939 Sonja Batten: Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, and and the the only tweak I would add to that is like underappreciated and
00:25:43.060 --> 00:25:51.209 Sonja Batten: and just not like didn't have the ability to to execute on were most important.
00:25:51.530 --> 00:25:54.507 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. And that feeling like,
00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:59.329 Mira Brancu: you know, I have had the same experience where?
00:25:59.830 --> 00:26:21.605 Mira Brancu: you know the things that that mattered most to me that excited me most that energized me most. If I couldn't do those things. I felt like a bird with its wings clipped like that. I couldn't use the best assets that I had available that I just had to sort of like. Sit there, you know, in this little, you know, sort of
00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:44.689 Mira Brancu: containment and not able to provide my very best. And that is really hard, and especially for for people who are ambitious high achievers, you know, like feeling held back it. It feels bad, because then you feel like you're actually a low performer when when you are actually naturally a high performer.
00:26:44.690 --> 00:26:45.370 Sonja Batten: Right.
00:26:45.610 --> 00:26:46.310 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah.
00:26:46.310 --> 00:26:50.299 Sonja Batten: It's it's hard to describe that but yes, exactly.
00:26:50.300 --> 00:26:54.590 Mira Brancu: Yeah. So you were also in
00:26:55.240 --> 00:27:14.274 Mira Brancu: you know, another very high profile job at Yale University. You didn't stick around longer than I guess a year and again from the outside, people might say, Gosh! She was in such a prestigious situation like how could she let that go right? And and so
00:27:14.850 --> 00:27:34.600 Mira Brancu: share with us a little bit about the difference between you know what it's like being in a, you know, high level, high profile, procedure situation, but something that doesn't necessarily match where you'd like to go, or how you make that decision about enduring versus not enduring in that kind of situation.
00:27:34.850 --> 00:27:59.840 Sonja Batten: Yeah. So again, I had this great honor. My 1st real job after Postdoc was that I was the associate Director for Women's Health research at Yale, which so Mission wise, totally aligned, like, you know, and everybody I was working with was super smart and hardworking, and committed to making either women's lives better or understanding. Gender differences in in physical and mental
00:27:59.840 --> 00:28:06.320 Sonja Batten: help like mission was great, and the challenge was
00:28:06.600 --> 00:28:13.497 Sonja Batten: the parts that that I was being asked to spend my time on
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:38.030 Sonja Batten: like, just basically what we were just saying, like, I knew that in this specific case fundraising was going to be part of the job because we were working to permanently endow the program. So I knew it was going to be part of the job. However, what I didn't know is that it was going to be like getting into the like heavy part of a recession
00:28:38.130 --> 00:28:43.460 Sonja Batten: when I started that job. And so charitable giving went way down.
00:28:43.920 --> 00:29:12.879 Sonja Batten: And so we were having to work really hard on fundraising. And so the amount of time that I was spending on science and directing women's health research and gender-based differences in health and the amount of time that I was spending on fundraising started to shift dramatically, and and I can do fundraising, but it is not something that brings me
00:29:12.930 --> 00:29:20.930 Sonja Batten: passion and satisfaction, and I found myself 8 months into the job.
00:29:20.930 --> 00:29:44.790 Sonja Batten: sitting on a Saturday in a board of directors or Advisory Board meeting like a fundraising meeting. With all of these, you know, wonderful committed, dedicated, wealthy people talking about how to raise money, and I sat there in this meeting on a Saturday, and just getting like more and more frustrated, and just wanting to crawl out of my skin.
00:29:45.640 --> 00:30:12.330 Sonja Batten: And as I sat there in that board meeting I composed in my head an email to somebody who I had turned down a job 8 months before, where I was explaining. Like, you know, I know you don't have a job available, but here's where I am, and and I'm just wondering if you can keep an eye out for me, and I sat there in my in that meeting, and I thought, you are crazy.
00:30:12.330 --> 00:30:22.780 Sonja Batten: You are literally crazy. You have a faculty job at Yale like what is wrong with you. But but my gut, I just had this. I had this like
00:30:22.780 --> 00:30:48.119 Sonja Batten: pressure, that to write this email. And so I got home from the meeting on that Saturday afternoon. And I said, and I just raced up to my computer. I sat there. I drafted that email. And I said, You are insane. I'm not going to send it. It was to Alan Belick and and I. But I wrote it and attached the Cv. I said, Okay, I'm going to sleep on it, and we're I'm going to see how I feel. Maybe I'm just frustrated.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:31:03.279 Sonja Batten: I woke up the next morning on Sunday morning, and all I wanted to do was press. Send on that email, and you know what. By the end of Sunday afternoon he wrote and said, Well, yeah, we don't have a position open. But actually, I've been talking to the Director of Mental health here, and we need you
00:31:03.851 --> 00:31:15.839 Sonja Batten: and so so trusting my gut, even even when on paper, seemed like a really dumb thing to do, and it was no, no regrets.
00:31:15.840 --> 00:31:18.300 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, I think, that
00:31:18.570 --> 00:31:22.181 Mira Brancu: a few, a few things I'm pulling from that one is
00:31:22.710 --> 00:31:41.179 Mira Brancu: that you were paying really close attention to your reactions, your feelings, your level of frustration, and you were able to separate that from what I call the allure of prestige, which can be a huge pull for so many people and keep people
00:31:41.860 --> 00:32:08.110 Mira Brancu: you know, held back in roles, feeling miserable for way longer than necessary. And you know it sounds like you personally have a lower level of tolerance for misery than others, or a higher level of appreciation and recognition for the you know that there are other possibilities around the corner.
00:32:08.310 --> 00:32:11.600 Sonja Batten: Yeah, yeah, confidence that I'll figure something out.
00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:25.720 Mira Brancu: Yeah. Yeah. So let's hold on to that. Because I'm really interested in pulling that thread a little bit more. We are reaching an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sonia Batten, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:33:57.410 --> 00:34:02.770 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sonia Batten
00:34:02.990 --> 00:34:18.819 Mira Brancu: and we before the ad break. We were talking about how you sort of more naturally than maybe some others lean into a certain level of confidence. That opportunities are around the corner, and you'll make it.
00:34:19.020 --> 00:34:27.089 Mira Brancu: and I'm not sure everybody has that mindset, which is why it holds them back and keeps them stuck for way longer than necessary.
00:34:27.219 --> 00:34:32.579 Mira Brancu: I'm super curious, like, where where did that belief, system, or confidence come from?
00:34:34.130 --> 00:34:40.939 Sonja Batten: Yeah, I I think that it is like, I wanna be clear because it's gonna sound
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:53.235 Sonja Batten: I don't know. Maybe going to sound overly confident or arrogant, or something here like I want to be clear. There are plenty of places in my life that I have been not confident.
00:34:55.389 --> 00:34:57.730 Sonja Batten: really, I promise the.
00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:08.046 Sonja Batten: But but achieving like academically and occupationally like, I think that I'm I'm fortunate that I'm 1 of those people who
00:35:08.530 --> 00:35:34.050 Sonja Batten: you know, it was like good at school and good at standardized tests, and, you know, like, got liked my teachers and got lots of good feedback at school and and family was supportive of. You know that I was smart and could achieve things, and so I think I was very fortunate to both, you know, have the raw material and
00:35:34.050 --> 00:35:46.770 Sonja Batten: the you know, the support along the way, that that even when other things in my life were not going the way that I wanted them to. I could generally make school and work.
00:35:47.020 --> 00:35:47.505 Mira Brancu: Yeah,
00:35:47.990 --> 00:35:55.330 Sonja Batten: Go positively. And yeah. So I think I just I just sort of
00:35:55.620 --> 00:36:07.599 Sonja Batten: trusted that that I could figure it out. Now I would not have like left any of those jobs without having the next job like, I'm not that confident.
00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:07.950 Mira Brancu: Yeah.
00:36:07.950 --> 00:36:12.910 Sonja Batten: But but I I was confident enough to at least start looking.
00:36:12.910 --> 00:36:36.849 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And I think, if I could add another piece to what I'm hearing, that you did really? Well, that I don't think a lot of women especially do well, and especially folks within the Federal Government. They do this terribly. Is. You were a great networker. Somebody who
00:36:37.140 --> 00:36:53.400 Mira Brancu: developed and maintained and cultivated relationships with mentors with, you know, just going up to Tony's ice, you know, or contacted another, you know, mentor to see what's out there, you know, and a lot of people end up
00:36:53.770 --> 00:37:17.440 Mira Brancu: with this belief that if they just do a good job and their supervisor sees them do a good job. Their supervisor will then help them with their entire career, which is not true at all. You do have to plant seeds. You do have to cultivate relationships, and you cannot possibly put all of your
00:37:18.063 --> 00:37:35.779 Mira Brancu: faith in one person to take care of your entire career, future and needs, because those change over time and you as as very early in your career, automatically sort of like, had that understood which I don't think a lot of people recognize.
00:37:35.860 --> 00:37:36.530 Sonja Batten: Yeah.
00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:52.089 Sonja Batten: yeah. You know, I think I think I was fortunate. I mean, I can look back to, you know, in in college I had 2 psychology professors who really took an interest in me personally, and I felt like.
00:37:52.120 --> 00:38:07.280 Sonja Batten: Oh, like that! People will support me. And then I went to grad school, and had 2 professors who again, you know, were like very high profile. But, like, would you know, I could talk to just as a normal human being. They were very much
00:38:07.625 --> 00:38:24.560 Sonja Batten: themselves and authentic, and every and you know my my internship, my post. I've just been really fortunate to have good mentors and people who would introduce me to people or or and then and then it's a certain point it's not about them introducing. It's about me just
00:38:24.590 --> 00:38:28.050 Sonja Batten: stepping up and and reaching out, but having the confidence to.
00:38:28.050 --> 00:38:49.319 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know that confidence that there's an opportunity around the corner, or that you can make it doesn't have to come from the same place like. For me, it comes from a very, very different place, and that is, you know, as an immigrant, and seeing my parents struggle.
00:38:49.530 --> 00:39:05.470 Mira Brancu: There is no option for failure. There is absolutely no option for failure, so I sort of have come to recognize that in myself that I won't allow myself to fail, because that is not an option, and so I must take the risk.
00:39:05.782 --> 00:39:21.407 Mira Brancu: Just like they did much huger risk they took, you know, to come to this country with literally nothing, and, you know, build something from that. And being able to see that and that like you can, you know. Do that? With the right support system, you know, with
00:39:21.970 --> 00:39:30.280 Mira Brancu: people who care about you like you have had as well. Yeah. And surrounding yourself with with that, you know folks who can inspire you and push you right.
00:39:30.510 --> 00:39:36.770 Sonja Batten: Right and just realizing that like with some of those things like, what's the worst that can happen, you know, like.
00:39:37.200 --> 00:39:52.407 Sonja Batten: okay, your email goes unread, or or you get, you know, like like a snarky response back. Or who cares like? It doesn't really matter. Like those sorts of things. They they seem very high risk.
00:39:52.880 --> 00:40:09.361 Sonja Batten: but but they're they're really not like going out on your own and starting a business. And you know there are definitely higher, higher things, you know. But but I think sometimes we tell ourselves stories that you know, like the statistic that
00:40:09.890 --> 00:40:38.899 Sonja Batten: that women when they're applying for jobs like, wait until they're, you know, have 85% of the job requirements like that. They are qualified for them before they'll even apply for a job, whereas that's not the case for men, they'll just apply with a lot, you know, not as concerned about how much they meet the job requirements, you know, studies about that. And so it's sort of like that, like, just like, Well.
00:40:38.900 --> 00:40:46.109 Sonja Batten: who cares? So you apply for the job? See what? What's the worst that can happen? So you reach out to somebody. You try something new. Okay?
00:40:46.290 --> 00:40:47.179 Sonja Batten: You know.
00:40:47.690 --> 00:40:50.681 Mira Brancu: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and
00:40:51.710 --> 00:40:54.349 Mira Brancu: So speaking of that,
00:40:55.250 --> 00:41:17.703 Mira Brancu: for for those who have not been tracking kind of where I am with my own career. Last week I also left the Federal Government, and yes, technically, I did have to have all my ducks in a row. I didn't just leap. It was 7 years in the making. It would have been 10, but I was ready and
00:41:18.390 --> 00:41:46.470 Mira Brancu: You know I was. I was waiting to see how my company, which I was growing on the side, was doing and tracking a bunch of metrics to see, you know, can I will this be viable? Will this be sustainable? And you know, July 1st was my last day with the Federal Government, and that was a big leap for me as an immigrant who, like literally is obsessed with financial stability
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:56.059 Mira Brancu: to just go right into the company. But it was because I had to check off a number of sort of re the areas where I felt risky.
00:41:56.220 --> 00:42:07.599 Mira Brancu: We're risky and I'm curious what as you think about the federal workforce right now, people who are coming to you for advice, people
00:42:07.650 --> 00:42:35.419 Mira Brancu: that you're you're seeing, either thinking about leaving the Federal Government or leaving even without a plan which makes me nervous as a planful person. What advice do you have about how to navigate those decisions, whether to endure during a time of high stress and volatility within the Federal Government, and or how to sort of have that mindset of surviving and thriving.
00:42:36.150 --> 00:42:42.549 Sonja Batten: Yeah. And I, I have, you know, because, like, we've talked about, I worked in the Federal Government a long time. So I have lots of people reaching out to me.
00:42:43.586 --> 00:43:11.729 Sonja Batten: You know, both friends. And then people I'm doing coaching with and and so I've seen people across that entire spectrum I've seen, you know. I think you have to. You have to decide which of your interests are most, and by interests I mean, like your needs, your you know your requirements, which which of your you know, sort of requirements takes precedence right now, because for some people
00:43:11.740 --> 00:43:15.409 Sonja Batten: they are like this, close
00:43:15.560 --> 00:43:31.940 Sonja Batten: to retirement and getting those benefits that they've worked really hard for, and they feel like, you know, they can endure for just a little bit longer. And so some of it is you just knowing like
00:43:32.290 --> 00:43:41.179 Sonja Batten: with like you're saying, you know your financial stability goals like, if somebody is like, really needs to make sure those things are in order.
00:43:41.200 --> 00:44:04.380 Sonja Batten: then prioritize that and figure out how to get support, to deal with the frustration. In the meantime, so you can reach your goals. On the other hand, I have friends who have only been in government a couple of years, and they're like peace out like, you know, this is this is an easy decision, because it's obviously not going anywhere. For me. The the harder part are the people who are sort of in the middle.
00:44:04.380 --> 00:44:05.040 Sonja Batten: Yeah, yeah.
00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:18.590 Sonja Batten: they're the people who like loved their job. Until recently they had that sense of meaning and passion, and what they're doing is less and less of that stuff that they like.
00:44:18.590 --> 00:44:41.200 Sonja Batten: and more and more of the frustration and and what I would. What I keep telling them is like, I promise you there are. There's life after the Federal Government there really is. I live it. You're about to live it. There's life after the Federal Government and and I but I think it's a balance like I encourage people to like.
00:44:41.220 --> 00:44:42.802 Sonja Batten: Figure out the
00:44:43.500 --> 00:44:54.960 Sonja Batten: the practical things like, you know, you actually get a partial pension, even if you don't stay the whole 30 years. You get a partial pension. You don't lose it as long as you've been in for 5 years or something.
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.729 Mira Brancu: I remember you giving me that advice a few years ago. Absolutely. Yes.
00:44:58.730 --> 00:45:15.950 Sonja Batten: Yeah. And so like, like testing out those like all or nothing assumptions about. If I leave, I lose everything that I've put into this? Well, maybe not, maybe not and so really like looking into the practical, but then also
00:45:16.240 --> 00:45:32.559 Sonja Batten: trusting your gut and and and knowing like, are you being eaten alive from from inside, you know. And how much longer can you stand to do that? Or do you want to stand to do that? And different people will have different answers to that. There is not a right answer.
00:45:32.910 --> 00:45:43.921 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, some some of the ways that I've helped leaders and help myself is even visualizing, like,
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:51.299 Mira Brancu: you know, if there is a wall right that is being built in front of me.
00:45:51.490 --> 00:46:02.740 Mira Brancu: and at some point I feel like I'm trapped. What are the bricks that are adding to that wall. And where is my limit? Of how large, how tall that wall is going to be for me.
00:46:02.740 --> 00:46:22.190 Sonja Batten: Yeah. And only you can decide that. And your level of tolerance at this point in your life is different than it would have been 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years from now, you know, like it, it varies. And it's okay to just look at it for right now what you know. Where am I with that.
00:46:22.190 --> 00:46:29.360 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I really appreciate that that you know, recognizing that whatever it is that you planned in one phase of your life.
00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:50.650 Mira Brancu: you're in a different phase. Now, if you are there's a different set of criteria that you might need to be judging this against, and that there's there's no judgment about that. It's just a different phase of life. So I appreciate that that additional piece to it. So you're I can't believe we're at another ad break. This is crazy.
00:46:50.650 --> 00:46:51.220 Sonja Batten: Comfortable.
00:46:51.220 --> 00:47:00.390 Mira Brancu: Unacceptable. Anyway, we are at an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sonia Batten, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:48:45.650 --> 00:49:00.596 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome back to the hard skills with me. Dr. Mira Branku and our guest today, Dr. Sonia Batten, and we're talking about endurance and leadership when it comes to those pivotal moments, those hard decisions enduring in leadership.
00:49:01.310 --> 00:49:17.250 Mira Brancu: when you are kind of stuck, making a hard decision or taking a leap, and we've covered a lot of bases here. We've we've covered mentorship and surrounding yourself with people who, you know, care about your future. We've talked about
00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:31.605 Mira Brancu: the aspect of networking or or building and cultivating relationships with with people who care about your future and could help and we've talked about sort of trusting your gut and recognizing
00:49:32.250 --> 00:49:36.750 Mira Brancu: you know, when you're starting to feel like something's off or misaligned
00:49:37.130 --> 00:49:39.889 Mira Brancu: and we've also talked about like
00:49:40.420 --> 00:49:45.170 Mira Brancu: how you can leave a job that you are deeply committed to and love.
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:47.891 Mira Brancu: and we've both certainly done that.
00:49:48.700 --> 00:50:09.235 Mira Brancu: I loved my jobs and my roles with the mental health centers of excellence. So did Sonia. And yet there came a time when it just felt a little off. We weren't necessarily growing or being challenged in the ways that we needed right? And then, you know, making big big leaps, leaving the Federal Government and
00:50:09.670 --> 00:50:23.999 Mira Brancu: looking within to think about. What are your needs right now in this phase of your life and that there is life outside of the organization that you're with. So with all of that in mind.
00:50:24.250 --> 00:50:27.519 Mira Brancu: Sonia, I'd love to hear kind of like. How you know.
00:50:27.640 --> 00:50:36.390 Mira Brancu: How would you pull all of this together in terms of the the lessons that you've learned about what is worth trying to endure.
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:40.435 Mira Brancu: and what isn't when you are
00:50:41.070 --> 00:50:49.309 Mira Brancu: you know, committed to whichever sort of job role passion career you've you've made a decision around. How do you know.
00:50:50.350 --> 00:50:58.959 Sonja Batten: Well, you know, I I'm realizing there's there's sort of one set of factors that we haven't talked about, and that's
00:50:59.730 --> 00:51:04.030 Sonja Batten: That's when things are toxic.
00:51:04.030 --> 00:51:04.700 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:51:05.088 --> 00:51:15.589 Sonja Batten: You know, if you have a toxic boss, if you're in some sort of other toxic situation, or if just how you are coping with the stress
00:51:15.710 --> 00:51:17.330 Sonja Batten: is toxic.
00:51:17.330 --> 00:51:18.050 Mira Brancu: Absolutely.
00:51:18.050 --> 00:51:34.989 Sonja Batten: Which again is not a ding on you. It's just it just is. And so like I have a friend who, you know, Jan Kemp, who she worked in the Federal Government for for 30 years she did retire, but you know what? She also worked herself to death.
00:51:35.030 --> 00:51:48.439 Sonja Batten: She retired, and then died, you know, a few months later, and and so I think like, and she was so committed to her job. And she loved her job. But you know what she she
00:51:48.620 --> 00:51:53.289 Sonja Batten: was so committed that it was to the detriment of her own health.
00:51:53.470 --> 00:52:21.590 Sonja Batten: and so so I think, like making sure that you're paying attention to those things like. On the other hand, I have one friend who is like a master at compartmentalizing, you know, and and she can go to work, and she can be like this is ridiculous. I'm going to do my job. And then she goes home and she does not think about it. She, you know. So you have to know who you are, are you somebody who is
00:52:21.830 --> 00:52:50.729 Sonja Batten: part of your self worth and value is defined by your job. Well, I kind of am. I mean, like my I you know it's a big part of who I am, being a psychologist and caring about what I do, and having a mission. And so for me, if I'm in a situation where you know, I'm not being able to like you talked about several times being able to express your skills in the best way. Or there's something that's just like, really off.
00:52:50.790 --> 00:52:59.729 Sonja Batten: that affects me at a fundamental level, that it's not like that for everybody. So you have to sort of know yourself and know like.
00:52:59.730 --> 00:53:27.469 Sonja Batten: can I put this in a box when I go home at the end of the day, and it's frustrating during the day. But then it doesn't affect the whole rest of my life, or is it truly affecting everything in your life, and how you're interacting with your friends and your family and your kids and your health, you know, like, I think those are some things to consider, and but not not minimizing it. If it. If there is something that's truly toxic or unhealthy.
00:53:27.850 --> 00:53:54.229 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I really appreciate that you. So you know, we talk so much about leaving a toxic workplace and what that looks like, etc, etc. We really do not talk a lot about. When are my responses to the situation? Toxic and either toxic to me in your example? Perfect example of that is, you know, address not recognizing the impact on your health or
00:53:54.810 --> 00:54:02.040 Mira Brancu: in my case, you know, I and I think a lot of people. In this situation don't
00:54:02.170 --> 00:54:17.399 Mira Brancu: know necessarily what it looks like when they're under high stress. High achievers especially. Don't they push and push and push and push, and they don't always recognize when they've
00:54:17.670 --> 00:54:26.409 Mira Brancu: hit that moment where they're actually in a high stress response. And it's a derailer. It's becoming a derailer right? And so
00:54:26.510 --> 00:54:35.859 Mira Brancu: I've learned over time to recognize that in myself, and to like start tracking. Am I not being my best any longer.
00:54:36.060 --> 00:54:39.790 Mira Brancu: and know what that looks like.
00:54:39.920 --> 00:55:01.872 Mira Brancu: and that is not something that a lot of you know people do but I think it's critical, because when you can do that, you can make way better decisions like, okay, this is no longer at my best, and that feels bad. And I might be affecting other people, too, in the, you know, as as a result, and that's not good either. Right? So
00:55:02.200 --> 00:55:06.469 Sonja Batten: And and I and I think like that change can happen so gradually.
00:55:06.470 --> 00:55:07.390 Mira Brancu: Yes. Yeah.
00:55:07.390 --> 00:55:12.809 Sonja Batten: Yourself. Don't actually notice that you have been changed. Yeah.
00:55:12.810 --> 00:55:13.210 Mira Brancu: Yes.
00:55:13.210 --> 00:55:39.420 Sonja Batten: And but the people around you can. So asking them for input like, when I left that Va job that I loved. But it was not right for me anymore at the time. It took me like 9 months, my husband said. Like it. It was like 9 months of like a hard shell starting to come off of me because I had built up that toughness and that hardness
00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:52.930 Sonja Batten: to get through the parts that were hard for me in that role, and I think we don't necessarily see it in ourselves. But you could ask people that are important to you in in your life whether they've seen any changes.
00:55:52.930 --> 00:56:09.909 Mira Brancu: Absolutely really great insights. I often talk about detoxing from your last role before you jump right into your next role. If you can even just a little bit of time to be able to go through the things that you've mentioned as well.
00:56:10.318 --> 00:56:29.680 Mira Brancu: So, Sonia, we could talk about this forever. But I'm noticing we're at the last minute here. Those of you who want to find her learn more about her work. You can go to soniabatten.com, that is, SONJ, a, BATT en.com.
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:39.549 Mira Brancu: and also flexible edge solutions.com tell us very quickly. What do you do with flexible edge solutions and a Sonia bot.
00:56:39.550 --> 00:56:54.155 Sonja Batten: Yeah. So, soniabatten.com. That's where I do my like acceptance and commitment therapy training. Which I do either remotely or in person, the flexible edge solutions. That's my executive coaching and leadership training
00:56:54.550 --> 00:57:19.079 Sonja Batten: business. And so that that's something that I love that brings brings me joy to to continue to help mentor people. And yeah, so so feel free to reach out. If anyone's interested in even just a short, you know, like 3 sessions, or something to help you think through whether it's time to stay or go, or just hit me up on Linkedin. If you tell me that you
00:57:19.080 --> 00:57:23.300 Sonja Batten: heard about it on this podcast I'll I'll give you. I'll give you a discount. So.
00:57:23.300 --> 00:57:40.099 Mira Brancu: Awesome. Look at that. Hope you're following up on that. That's amazing. So, audience, what did you take away? More importantly, what is one small change you can implement this week based on what you learned from Sonia. Share it with us on Linkedin, we will cheer you on.
00:57:40.170 --> 00:57:59.450 Mira Brancu: And if today's episode resonated, for you. Make sure that you subscribe and or share with others who might be interested. Thank you to talkradio, dot Nyc. For hosting. Together we will navigate the complexities of leadership and emerge stronger on the other side, and thank you for joining me and Dr. Sonia Batten today on this journey.
00:57:59.580 --> 00:58:08.850 Mira Brancu: This is Dr. Mira Branku, signing off until next time. Stay, steady, stay present, and keep building those hard skills muscles.
00:58:08.980 --> 00:58:10.410 Mira Brancu: Bye-bye, everybody.
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