Tuesdays: 5:00pm - 6:00pm (EST)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
If you have been wondering if there is a better way to develop an engaged, empowered organizational culture - one where employees feel a sense of ownership and power to make a difference, both internally on their teams and even as far as making a global impact, this is the episode for you.
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WHAT YOU WILL LEARN:
In this episode, you will hear practical examples of how various organizations developed engaged, empowered corporate cultures, how these organizations got started, and the impact it can have on people and the planet, including how this can impact health at a global level.
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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Lorraine Margherita is a bilingual collaborative consultant, author and speaker. She is a catalyst of participatory environments and partners with teams and organizations to help them remove the barrier between decision and action. With a proven track record of empowering over 7,000 leaders and managers at major global corporations in a variety of industries, she is recognized for her pivotal role in facilitating transformative change, building on her systemic and appreciative approach. Lorraine is the author of Shared Decision-Making in the Corporate Arena, an exploration into multiple industries and organizations that have fostered a culture of impact by empowering their teams. Lorraine holds degrees from Dauphine University in Paris, Sciences Po Lyon and was an exchange student at Georgetown University (Washington, DC). Since then she has completed a number of certifications to facilitate large groups, foster innovation and handle systemic change.
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is especially helpful for small women-owned boot-strapped businesses. Simply go to the bottom of the Apple Podcast page to enter a review. Thank you!
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LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE:
Guest LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraine-margherita-collective-dynamics-for-governance-and-performance/
Guest Website: https://co-dynamics.net/en/
Our website: www.gotowerscope.com
#empowerment #autonomy #responsibility #DecisionMaking #culture #TheHardSkills #OrganizationalImpact
Tune in for this empowering conversation at TalkRadio.nyc
Mira introduces herself, her work, and her guest Lorraine Margherita, highlighting some of Lorraine's career accomplishments. Lorraine shares her background and discusses leadership challenges she has faced. Mira offers insights on how Lorraine can enhance her leadership skills.
Lorraine discusses companies she believes demonstrate strong leadership, explaining what makes them exceptional. Mira offers her perspective and guides Lorraine through a series of questions to help her reflect on her own leadership approach.
Lorraine delves into her book, sharing key ideas about decision-making in the workplace. Mira assists Lorraine in developing these concepts further by asking thoughtful questions to help clarify her leadership strategy.
Lorraine discusses the process of providing constructive feedback to employees who are underperforming. Together, she and Mira explore this topic, and the show concludes with Mira promoting her website.
00:00:33.290 --> 00:00:44.450 Mira Brancu: Welcome welcome to the hard skills show where we discuss how to develop the nuanced hard skills meaning the most challenging soft skills needed to make a real impact through your leadership.
00:00:44.730 --> 00:00:51.439 Mira Brancu: Now, if you've been wondering if there's a better way to develop an engaged and powered organizational culture
00:00:51.540 --> 00:01:02.229 Mira Brancu: one where employees feel a sense of ownership and power to make a difference both internally on their teams. And even as far as making a global impact.
00:01:02.410 --> 00:01:04.650 Mira Brancu: this is the episode for you.
00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:06.370 Mira Brancu: our guest today.
00:01:06.700 --> 00:01:16.129 Mira Brancu: Lauren Margarita, who I will introduce in just a moment, will share some current examples, such as with Patagonia and other organizations. How do they do it?
00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:20.400 Mira Brancu: What do they do? And how can you implement some of the same frameworks?
00:01:20.490 --> 00:01:24.980 Mira Brancu: This is perfect for Season five's focus on making a greater impact.
00:01:25.470 --> 00:01:39.600 Mira Brancu: I'm your host, Dr. Mira Bronku. I'm a leadership consulting and coaching psychologist, founder of the Tower Scope Leadership Academy, an associate, professor, a psychology today, columnist, author of Millennials Guide to Workplace politics
00:01:39.790 --> 00:01:48.150 Mira Brancu: and had my own leadership career before transitioning to helping teams and high achieving women navigate their leadership complexities. Okay.
00:01:48.300 --> 00:02:03.799 Mira Brancu: now, let me introduce you to Loren. Margarita. Loren is a bilingual, collaborative, consultant author and speaker focusing on helping teams and organizations, develop participatory environments and remove the barrier between decision and action.
00:02:04.020 --> 00:02:15.459 Mira Brancu: She's worked with over 7,000 leaders and managers at major global corporations, in a variety of industries facilitating transformational change through systemic and appreciative approaches.
00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:23.859 Mira Brancu: Loren is the author of shared decision making in the corporate arena which I have had a chance to read. It's really good where
00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:32.509 Mira Brancu: she interviewed leaders and team members across multiple industries and organizations that have fostered a culture of impact by empowering their teams.
00:02:32.670 --> 00:02:41.990 Mira Brancu: Loren holds degrees from Dauphine University in Paris Sciences, Folione, and was an exchange student at Georgetown University, as well
00:02:42.110 --> 00:02:44.029 Mira Brancu: welcome to the show. Lorraine.
00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:54.840 lorraine margherita: Thank you very much, Mira. I'm really happy to be here with you for this conversation.
00:02:55.160 --> 00:03:01.480 Mira Brancu: Absolutely excited to have you so, Loren, your book is on shared decision making.
00:03:01.700 --> 00:03:17.649 Mira Brancu: But we'll also probably use various terms. There's there's so many terms when you apply to you know this, this kind of work, empowerment models, participatory leadership and models. Can you define these things for our audience? For those who are not familiar with this.
00:03:18.030 --> 00:03:39.409 lorraine margherita: Absolutely. You mentioned that I work on removing the barrier between decision and action. And that's what we're talking about. So there are many ways to do it many ways to talk about it. And sometimes companies start that path without having a proper framework in mind or a model in mind. They start with their culture, their history.
00:03:39.410 --> 00:04:07.240 lorraine margherita: And so they're all about bringing the people who will implement the decisions into the decision making process. That's what we're talking about so that they can improve both. The quality of the decisions have better decisions and better engagements, because we all know that when we take part in a decision. No one needs to ask us to move forward to the next step and and implement the decision. We're already part of what's going to happen, we make it happen.
00:04:07.850 --> 00:04:29.669 Mira Brancu: Yeah, that makes sense makes perfect sense. Actually, because for the people who actually have to implement, they're not gonna implement what you want them to implement if they're not part of that process, if they're not able to to provide you with information, for example, about oh, actually, that won't work, because the way that we're designed right now doesn't allow that to happen right.
00:04:29.670 --> 00:04:50.149 lorraine margherita: Yeah, they need to understand what they're part of. So we're starting to talk about what it is for, why we do what we do, why we do it, the the way that we do. And and it's also because they feel like they know their job. They know what they have to do, and they have a word to say when you talk about what the customer wants.
00:04:50.330 --> 00:04:56.109 lorraine margherita: The teams that are in touch with the customer on a daily basis, have something to say about what the customer like
00:04:56.120 --> 00:05:12.192 lorraine margherita: or doesn't like. So they they have something to say on their job, on the outcomes, on the feedback that they get from the different stakeholders. And so you might as well listen to what they have to say. And there are many different ways. We said many different ways to talk about this.
00:05:12.490 --> 00:05:30.590 lorraine margherita: one way. For example, if I take Lego, which is one of the examples I I mentioned in my book interviewed for my book that they say everyone is is a leader. So when they have 20,000 people in the world working in that company. They consider that they have 20,000 leaders. That's 1 way of saying it
00:05:30.690 --> 00:05:53.949 lorraine margherita: at Hcl. Tech in India. The former, CEO said that he turned the pyramid upside down, not just to say that it's going to be a huge crash, a huge revolution, but just to to reflect that the people in touch with the customers should be, the ones being listened to rather than listening to their managers and to the constraints of the higher level in their hierarchy.
00:05:54.050 --> 00:05:57.049 lorraine margherita: So, as you see, there are plenty of ways to approach
00:05:57.200 --> 00:06:01.740 lorraine margherita: that notion of bringing the people into the decision-making process.
00:06:02.080 --> 00:06:03.797 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I'm curious.
00:06:04.580 --> 00:06:24.109 Mira Brancu: what would you say to folks who like they? They hear this story about how Lego says every single person 20,000 people are a leader within the organization. That sounds like chaos. It sounds like, well, what do they all have a say? And like, how do they, you know, finally make a a decision. What are your sort of
00:06:24.140 --> 00:06:26.799 Mira Brancu: yeah. What's your response to? To sort of like
00:06:27.090 --> 00:06:29.360 Mira Brancu: the chaos that could be
00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:31.249 Mira Brancu: from that that could come from that.
00:06:31.380 --> 00:06:44.579 lorraine margherita: It. It makes me think of a a video that many some of you know. Maybe you've seen it, Mira. That was created by Zappos a few years ago, when they started holocracy, which is one of the frameworks. It's it's 1 of the rare frameworks that
00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:50.509 lorraine margherita: that exist with very specific steps and and ways of implementing.
00:06:50.540 --> 00:07:04.399 lorraine margherita: And Zappos created that video showing a nightmare of the CEO, thinking, Oh, my God! No more managers in my company, what are we going to do? It's going to be chaos. And obviously, that's 1 of the
00:07:04.410 --> 00:07:18.239 lorraine margherita: maybe the clarification that's required when we talk about sharing the decision making. It's not about saying that everyone has a say, because obviously, 20,000 people giving their opinion on every single decision that wouldn't work.
00:07:18.310 --> 00:07:21.689 lorraine margherita: It's about making it clear
00:07:22.060 --> 00:07:25.520 lorraine margherita: what decisions need, what processes.
00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:27.929 lorraine margherita: what we're doing it for.
00:07:28.020 --> 00:07:52.310 lorraine margherita: how we get organized to do that. So it's not. It's not removing the rules. It's changing the rules about the way to make decisions. So when we say that 20,000 leaders are in the company, it just means that each one of them knows what they have to do. It doesn't mean that they want to say what the 19 and 999 other people have to say or do in their own area.
00:07:52.970 --> 00:07:57.060 Mira Brancu: Yeah. This is reminding me of a recent
00:07:57.632 --> 00:08:07.019 Mira Brancu: case that I'm working on. And they're having this very sort of similar like challenge. They are
00:08:08.049 --> 00:08:09.639 Mira Brancu: a large team.
00:08:09.670 --> 00:08:33.649 Mira Brancu: and they do all have leadership roles in various ways. Some of them are technically supervising others, but they're all trying to work together, and they've they've done it this way in order to hear all voices. Who are in leadership roles and make sure that nobody is, is sort of overlooked. The problem that they've now come up with is that
00:08:33.950 --> 00:08:37.190 Mira Brancu: their decision making process is
00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:53.689 Mira Brancu: a complete mess. It's just like, do we build consensus? And what if we don't agree? And who do we go to for what? And who actually has a say? So does you mentioned holocracy as one example of a model.
00:08:53.690 --> 00:09:15.939 Mira Brancu: Would a holocracy help in the situation? Or how would you start thinking about helping this kind of group of people get to a point where they both feel like they have a say in the decision making process, but also that it's not a mess or confusing who you know, is providing input, what is the process? And all of those kinds of things? What would you do with this kind of group.
00:09:16.110 --> 00:09:28.309 lorraine margherita: So it's it's kind of a huge question. So maybe I'll I'll focus for a couple of minutes on holocracy, maybe to to make it clear what it is. It's 1 of the models that was created intentionally
00:09:28.750 --> 00:09:33.079 lorraine margherita: out of experience. So what is important in in all that
00:09:33.478 --> 00:09:37.960 lorraine margherita: field of shared decision making is that, for example, you will see in my book
00:09:38.060 --> 00:10:02.109 lorraine margherita: all the models that were that were created, all the frameworks that you could get inspiration from were created based on experience. So it's not something you take the book chapter one, chapter 2, and you just implement step by step. It has become that way with holocracy because they they tried many different things, including sociocracy, which is sort of the level maybe prior to holocracy. If
00:10:02.110 --> 00:10:16.559 lorraine margherita: level is not the right word. Actually, it's it's a matter of of chronology, but it's not a matter of of level in terms of intensity, right? So all these frameworks were created because
00:10:16.810 --> 00:10:32.280 lorraine margherita: outsiders noticed that some of the companies that we're talking about were doing things differently, and seemed to either recover from near bankruptcy or have results that were way superior to those of their competitors.
00:10:32.420 --> 00:10:45.449 lorraine margherita: And so outsiders started to observe what was going on in those companies, and realized that they had a few things in common, including letting more people have access to decisions that used to be made by other people.
00:10:45.680 --> 00:10:52.556 lorraine margherita: So maybe that's one thing that we need to say about hypocrisy, and so going back to your clients.
00:10:53.500 --> 00:11:08.330 lorraine margherita: if they are on the way. So holocracy is is sort of an exception, because they even have a constitution. It's very. It's very processed. One thing I like to to remind people about holocracy is that it was created by the founders of a software company.
00:11:08.470 --> 00:11:18.290 lorraine margherita: And the way to get organized comes with a platform. So it's very processed. It's almost technical.
00:11:18.290 --> 00:11:18.750 Mira Brancu: Hmm.
00:11:19.356 --> 00:11:21.780 lorraine margherita: So you either implement
00:11:21.980 --> 00:11:27.129 lorraine margherita: the steps that the company has prepared for others to imitate what they've done.
00:11:27.580 --> 00:11:34.069 lorraine margherita: or or you choose a completely different model. So if if your if your client is
00:11:34.290 --> 00:11:39.940 lorraine margherita: in the process of implementing callocracy, it's a very specific situation. They just have to keep going.
00:11:40.180 --> 00:11:49.530 lorraine margherita: And so maybe they're in one of the phases, just like every change, every transformation. Maybe they're in the phase where we have left behind
00:11:50.150 --> 00:11:56.969 lorraine margherita: former ways of doing things. And we're not completely comfortable with what we're doing or we're trying. And we need to
00:11:57.130 --> 00:12:07.190 lorraine margherita: get better. And so they just need to have faith and keep going, and and accept that. Not everything is perfect, you know the very 1st time.
00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:09.210 lorraine margherita: if they are not
00:12:09.420 --> 00:12:16.459 lorraine margherita: already implementing sociocracy. Holocracy. Sorry, then. I would say
00:12:16.640 --> 00:12:27.419 lorraine margherita: my first.st My 1st recommendation would be to go back to the purpose of their organization and of their team, and to make sure that it's very clear and shared.
00:12:27.430 --> 00:12:30.759 lorraine margherita: and that they know what they're aiming for.
00:12:32.062 --> 00:12:35.650 Mira Brancu: Yeah, yeah, that that's really helpful. So
00:12:37.290 --> 00:12:44.320 Mira Brancu: I'm curious to hear and and we're reaching an outbreak, so we're not going to quite get there yet. But I want you to start thinking about
00:12:44.380 --> 00:12:46.728 Mira Brancu: among all of the sort of
00:12:47.420 --> 00:12:51.889 Mira Brancu: companies that you evaluated, the people that you interviewed in your book?
00:12:53.003 --> 00:12:54.890 Mira Brancu: Which models
00:12:55.170 --> 00:13:04.180 Mira Brancu: did you like best? And why or which did you feel was even more most effective? And what was what was it about their process.
00:13:04.741 --> 00:13:13.469 Mira Brancu: And, you know, start to finish that you thought, Wow, this, this feels like it would be really effective in lots of situations. I'm very curious to hear about that. So.
00:13:13.470 --> 00:13:13.980 lorraine margherita: Okay.
00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:23.330 Mira Brancu: We're reaching an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabranku and our guest, Loren Margarita, author of Shared decision making in the corporate arena.
00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:35.929 Mira Brancu: We air on Tuesdays at 5 pm. Eastern. If you'd like to join our online audience when we air and ask questions of us on Linkedin. You can find us there, and we can respond
00:13:36.170 --> 00:13:38.639 Mira Brancu: at Talkradio dot mic as well.
00:13:38.650 --> 00:13:41.390 Mira Brancu: and we'll be right back with our guest in just a moment.
00:15:53.370 --> 00:15:58.899 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Bronku and our guests today, Laura and Margarita.
00:15:58.950 --> 00:16:00.004 Mira Brancu: So Loren
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:05.350 Mira Brancu: I would love to hear an example of, like
00:16:06.210 --> 00:16:23.690 Mira Brancu: a company that you thought, wow! I really love their process. I would love to see more companies be able to do this? And what is their process? What do they actually do to get to decision making? And why do you like it so much? Why, why would other companies potentially benefit.
00:16:24.050 --> 00:16:30.710 lorraine margherita: Hmm! I think there are a lot of questions in your simple question here, so I'll try to go through the different
00:16:31.640 --> 00:16:36.245 lorraine margherita: ideas that it pops up in my in my, in my mind.
00:16:36.910 --> 00:16:53.170 lorraine margherita: So maybe you'll be disappointed. I'm going to tell you that we just spoke about holocracy, which is very processed, and there is a constitution, and there is the company that created it helps other companies implement a process where they become holocaucratic.
00:16:53.300 --> 00:17:09.319 lorraine margherita: So secrecy, which was the inspiration for holocracy is also those are processes where you create circles rather than departments or levels, and a pyramid which is sort of the industrial revolution model.
00:17:09.390 --> 00:17:25.470 lorraine margherita: They create circles with a purpose, and all of the circles work together toward a general purpose. Those are sort of the exception, because every other way to implement empowerment in a company is pretty much
00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:37.829 lorraine margherita: customized. So not to say that you're just, you know, left out there, thinking I would like my teams to be more empowered or to be empowered. What do I do now?
00:17:38.030 --> 00:17:46.330 lorraine margherita: But it's on the opposite. It's a way to say, you start with your history and your culture so good news you don't have anything to do there
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:56.789 lorraine margherita: right in front of you. So build on them, and then there are many different ways to get started, which is a better news than there are so many ways that you might get lost.
00:17:56.930 --> 00:18:13.839 lorraine margherita: So one of the examples I really like to use, because to me it sort of covers the 3 circles that I haven't identified to structure. My book is Patagonia. You mentioned them earlier. It's a company that I like to talk about, because I think they've covered
00:18:14.270 --> 00:18:20.729 lorraine margherita: what I call the the 1st of the 3 circles, which is the team. So you start with the teams. Oftentimes
00:18:20.740 --> 00:18:36.259 lorraine margherita: we have leaders, I said. Models are created based on experiments or just, you know, intuition. Someone changes the way to do things or a team changes the way to make decisions or to involve the teams into the process.
00:18:36.580 --> 00:18:53.620 lorraine margherita: And then they realize that they've started something, and then they keep going, and they keep experimenting, and it becomes their model. It doesn't necessarily have a name, or it doesn't necessarily look the same as another company or another industry. And it works. So that's the 1st circle focusing on your teams.
00:18:54.150 --> 00:19:02.510 lorraine margherita: In 2024, I have to say, I would think that making sure that your teams are happy to come to work, or to be part of the work that you provide
00:19:02.520 --> 00:19:03.910 lorraine margherita: should be
00:19:04.020 --> 00:19:07.930 lorraine margherita: true everywhere, but as we can see around the world.
00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:15.155 lorraine margherita: There are many places where it's not that much fun to go to work in the morning. So that's still a concern.
00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:20.325 Mira Brancu: Our engineer right now would agree with that. We brought him out real early.
00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:33.689 lorraine margherita: Absolutely. I'm sure I'm sure that we share the same purpose this morning. So that makes it maybe easier. The second circle which builds on the 1st is is how to make your company sustainable.
00:19:33.730 --> 00:19:58.869 lorraine margherita: We all know that companies are not supposed to last that long, and the lifespan that is expected when a company is created is getting shorter and shorter by the decade. So at some point some people realized what? How come companies? Some companies manage to have a long life. What do they have? Something income? Is there something that they do that we can see in all of them that could explain, maybe the
00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:12.980 lorraine margherita: the or one of the right ways to handle a company so that it becomes sustainable. And so that second circle is about the stakeholders. So it's about the providers, your clients, your competitors, the markets around you.
00:20:13.510 --> 00:20:22.139 lorraine margherita: I would say, the people and and the entities or organizations that are impacted by your activity as a company. And then the 3rd circle and that's
00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:31.699 lorraine margherita: more ambitious is what I call the planet. And for me the planet is both the environment. I guess that's there for everyone and society.
00:20:32.210 --> 00:20:36.379 lorraine margherita: And so back to Patagonia. I think that's 1 of the examples where
00:20:36.430 --> 00:20:42.920 lorraine margherita: they have reached that ambition to have an impact on the planet, meaning the people and nature
00:20:43.260 --> 00:20:59.549 lorraine margherita: because they have created a model that is rooted into the intention to take care of the planet. So it's it's a nice story, because they started with someone who was a climber and created products for people like him who enjoyed the outdoors
00:20:59.950 --> 00:21:05.119 lorraine margherita: and didn't want to hurt nature. So in his case, climbing without hurting the rocks.
00:21:05.300 --> 00:21:18.639 lorraine margherita: and at some point in the 19 eighties, they realized that one of the product that they were manufacturing was harming people because there was. They found out that there was a chemical in the cotton that they were using.
00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:21.299 lorraine margherita: They realized that it was not
00:21:21.530 --> 00:21:46.679 lorraine margherita: they. They were not comfortable. They they say that it sort of awakened their responsibility, their sense of responsibility. They realized that by creating a jacket. They could hurt the people who gathered the material for the jacket, or or who were making it or selling it. And so they started to pull the thread of of what it meant, and they re questioned the entire supply chain.
00:21:46.740 --> 00:22:00.619 lorraine margherita: They crafted their purpose way before anyone was talking about corporate purpose, and and that purpose became to protect the planet. And now, as you probably know, in 2022, the entire company is serving
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:21.410 lorraine margherita: that very goal of protecting the planet, saving it from all the harm that's being done to it. So it's it's it's an example of how you can protect both protect or care. Or just listen to the people in your company, be aware of the impact around you, and even aim for something that is bigger than the company.
00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:32.119 lorraine margherita: And in that 3rd circle I include, for example, social business, which is business that is aiming at taking care of of the people who work in the company without expecting
00:22:32.617 --> 00:22:36.199 lorraine margherita: a return, necessarily just handling the business itself.
00:22:37.290 --> 00:22:38.210 Mira Brancu: Yeah, I
00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:39.375 Mira Brancu: I'm
00:22:40.930 --> 00:22:45.260 Mira Brancu: And so if we connect that back to
00:22:46.220 --> 00:22:48.459 Mira Brancu: this shared decision making
00:22:49.210 --> 00:22:51.420 Mira Brancu: process and
00:22:51.770 --> 00:22:53.290 Mira Brancu: empowerment.
00:22:55.290 --> 00:22:57.830 Mira Brancu: if let's say I have a company.
00:22:58.070 --> 00:23:00.830 Mira Brancu: and I have sort of set forth this
00:23:01.614 --> 00:23:03.099 Mira Brancu: goal, this purpose.
00:23:03.260 --> 00:23:08.390 Mira Brancu: I I want to have an impact in the world, a positive impact. It could be.
00:23:08.520 --> 00:23:11.910 Mira Brancu: you know, off environment. It could be something else.
00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:12.920 lorraine margherita: Yes.
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:14.440 Mira Brancu: How does that connect back
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:20.689 Mira Brancu: to the shared decision making models and the the empowerment models that you've been talking about.
00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:23.419 lorraine margherita: I think it's the starting point.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.219 lorraine margherita: It's it's asking
00:23:26.590 --> 00:23:28.810 lorraine margherita: oneself and ourselves
00:23:29.050 --> 00:23:31.509 lorraine margherita: what makes us work together.
00:23:33.110 --> 00:23:55.909 lorraine margherita: So some there is an example in in my book, with recruit holding, which is a company that was created in Japan. And they say we're a group of people who want to do the same thing toward the same aim. And that's pretty much the definition of a company. Right? So I think that's what connects people, and that what gives gives meaning to what they do daily.
00:23:56.710 --> 00:24:01.610 lorraine margherita: So whatever you do, whatever the industry, whatever the country.
00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:13.599 lorraine margherita: whatever the function in in the company, what connects people together is why they do what they do. So that's the starting point that makes for me. I I see it as a
00:24:13.760 --> 00:24:18.549 lorraine margherita: almost physically, as an image of everyone looking into the same direction.
00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:24.839 lorraine margherita: And so that's really what connects people and gives
00:24:25.110 --> 00:24:42.280 lorraine margherita: gives meaning to what they do and how they do it together. And then it's also the starting point to say that each one of the person in the company can contribute to something that is larger than themselves or larger than their position.
00:24:42.740 --> 00:24:48.519 lorraine margherita: and it helps organize the roles and the responsibilities. And that's when you can
00:24:49.190 --> 00:25:00.169 lorraine margherita: imagine that you, even though you're a manager or leader, you don't have to be everywhere, and you don't have to decide everything for the people who work in your in your team or department
00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:01.660 lorraine margherita: or organization.
00:25:02.580 --> 00:25:09.960 Mira Brancu: So I what comes up for me is I work for the Department of Veterans Affairs. As one of the sort of areas.
00:25:10.080 --> 00:25:11.230 Mira Brancu: And
00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:15.150 Mira Brancu: the thing that I I think, makes it
00:25:15.330 --> 00:25:20.120 Mira Brancu: meet this criteria that you mentioned, which is, it's sustainable. It's
00:25:20.150 --> 00:25:26.190 Mira Brancu: it's weathered an awful lot for a very long time. Gone through
00:25:26.620 --> 00:25:28.520 Mira Brancu: so many
00:25:28.610 --> 00:25:36.589 Mira Brancu: changes and fluctuations and policy, you know. The the organization is a Federal government entity.
00:25:36.650 --> 00:25:41.240 Mira Brancu: and here, for the health care of veterans and
00:25:42.670 --> 00:26:03.349 Mira Brancu: even though politics and politicians change over time and as a federal entity, we're sort of beholden to the changes in policy and the changes in what you know the President or Congress. Sort of decides. It's also been
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:09.449 Mira Brancu: kind of a a long term sustainable, successful organization, and I think partly because
00:26:09.530 --> 00:26:17.740 Mira Brancu: we have one clear mission. Everybody is behind this one clear mission, which is, serve veterans. That's it.
00:26:17.890 --> 00:26:22.290 Mira Brancu: Everybody knows it. There's only one reason you're here, right and
00:26:23.350 --> 00:26:27.800 Mira Brancu: and then they have these great campaigns own the moment.
00:26:27.990 --> 00:26:55.169 Mira Brancu: and on the moment is all about. How can I as an individual, even though there's over 370,000 people working for this organization? How can I make a difference in the lives of the people that I impact who it? Who are veterans? Right? How can I own the moment, own the experience? And it. It is kind of an empowerment model, even though technically, it's exceptionally bureaucratic and hierarchy.
00:26:56.310 --> 00:26:58.480 Mira Brancu: So I'm curious.
00:26:58.810 --> 00:26:59.650 Mira Brancu: Is
00:26:59.860 --> 00:27:02.019 Mira Brancu: is it even possible
00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:06.920 Mira Brancu: that an exceptionally large organization like that
00:27:07.370 --> 00:27:09.029 Mira Brancu: could implement
00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:14.280 Mira Brancu: some sociocracy or holocracy elements?
00:27:14.330 --> 00:27:15.440 Mira Brancu: Or
00:27:16.530 --> 00:27:20.790 Mira Brancu: are there some organizations or industries where it's just impossible, because you have to have
00:27:21.620 --> 00:27:26.354 Mira Brancu: sort of incredible structure of a hierarchy or bureaucracy? What are your thoughts on that.
00:27:26.670 --> 00:27:50.130 lorraine margherita: Well, you, you're taking an example. That is way beyond the largest companies we know, because I tend to work with large companies. And we're talking about, you know, somewhere around 50,000, sometimes more. But you know, a few dozens of thousands of people in the world. So you're talking about something that's even larger. And and it's it's been a focus. When I was writing my book
00:27:50.140 --> 00:28:18.339 lorraine margherita: because I I do work with large organizations, mostly because they tend to be multinational and thus multicultural. And that's for me. It's really fun, a lot of fun. And it's fun. And it's also very interesting, because it's 1 1 more way to be different. And that's 1 more way to have a better intelligence together, and collective intelligence and collective dynamics. So back to the large organizations.
00:28:20.650 --> 00:28:34.474 lorraine margherita: I I mentioned Lego 10, you know, I'm thinking, 20,000 people. If it's 20,000 40,000 60,000, I guess it's just the same situation. It doesn't, you know. It doesn't make a difference at this stage.
00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:44.869 lorraine margherita: So it is possible to say from the very top that you're not going to get involved in too many decisions because you think that your teams are responsible
00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:57.820 lorraine margherita: and so it's more. And and then the bureaucracy and the hierarchy. I think that it it's often starts with one place. So if it's if it's the top of the company that decides that
00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:13.769 lorraine margherita: we need to do a different job with the decision making and make the rules clearer, the responsibilities clearer, and stop having managers or leaders get involved in decisions that they don't really need to get involved in. It's it's easier, obviously.
00:29:13.910 --> 00:29:28.140 lorraine margherita: that being said, those organizations have a long culture, a long history. And so oftentimes I have several examples in the interviews I I had for my book. It starts with an entity
00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:34.760 lorraine margherita: because someone at some point just either has a constraint, a risk an intuition
00:29:34.860 --> 00:29:38.880 lorraine margherita: or just a way to become a manager or leader
00:29:38.910 --> 00:29:40.570 lorraine margherita: that makes them
00:29:40.650 --> 00:29:43.439 lorraine margherita: change what has been done before.
00:29:43.930 --> 00:29:47.600 lorraine margherita: And it happens in sort of an island in the company. So
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:55.299 lorraine margherita: at 1st it creates friction, because other places in the company may not be the same, but it creates that example that works
00:29:55.700 --> 00:30:02.069 lorraine margherita: and the people. The experience shows that the people who have experienced that change they won't go back
00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:04.920 lorraine margherita: to having someone on their back.
00:30:05.513 --> 00:30:08.739 lorraine margherita: You know, telling them what to do, controlling everything. Once you've
00:30:08.750 --> 00:30:23.399 lorraine margherita: you've started giving more room for the people to try even to make mistakes. We we didn't mention that so far. But that's also part of the story to try things and to see what comes out of of those experimentations.
00:30:23.470 --> 00:30:26.080 lorraine margherita: Then they won't go back to having
00:30:26.430 --> 00:30:29.310 lorraine margherita: no space for yeah, innovation.
00:30:29.660 --> 00:30:50.360 Mira Brancu: Let's put a let's put a PIN in that mistakes man managing. How how do these groups manage mistakes? And also the impact on performance in general. I'm curious about that. When we come back from the Ad break, you're listening to the hard skills with me, Mira Branco and our guest today, Lauren Margarita, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:32:51.980 --> 00:32:57.500 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the hard skills with me, Mira Broku and our guest today, Loren Margarita.
00:32:57.560 --> 00:33:01.429 Mira Brancu: So in your book, shared decision making in the corporate arena.
00:33:01.898 --> 00:33:14.320 Mira Brancu: You mentioned that if you give more autonomy to people to employees, their performance improves, which improves the organization's performance and the impact on the world. And you started talking about how
00:33:14.970 --> 00:33:20.499 Mira Brancu: once you sort of have implement and have success with this new kind of model.
00:33:20.520 --> 00:33:22.510 Mira Brancu: Most people don't want to go back.
00:33:22.820 --> 00:33:24.070 Mira Brancu: and
00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:32.369 Mira Brancu: I'm curious. Yes, of course nobody wants to go back to being micromanaged makes sense. But
00:33:32.690 --> 00:33:34.930 Mira Brancu: then how do you address
00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:39.630 Mira Brancu: Mistakes Failures What happens to Performance.
00:33:41.050 --> 00:33:42.632 lorraine margherita: So 2 things.
00:33:43.810 --> 00:33:57.119 lorraine margherita: 1st of all, you mentioned the impact on performance. As we said earlier, if you get more, the right people involved in the decisions that have something to do with what they do in the company. The decision will be better.
00:33:57.520 --> 00:34:03.749 lorraine margherita: So if you have better decisions, you might expect that the performance is going to reflect
00:34:04.230 --> 00:34:09.198 lorraine margherita: the the improvements in the decision making and in the decisions.
00:34:10.090 --> 00:34:10.895 lorraine margherita: So
00:34:11.850 --> 00:34:18.360 lorraine margherita: I I do think that it's it's not just wishful thinking. You know, people are going to be so happy that they're going to perform
00:34:19.520 --> 00:34:35.470 lorraine margherita: the second element in what you're saying is the motivation that it creates the engagement, and we all know I mean studies and books have been published year after year about this. We all need to see that what we do matters
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.099 lorraine margherita: that's pretty simple and very powerful.
00:34:39.150 --> 00:34:50.760 lorraine margherita: So we when we listen to people and they see that they have a say they they can. They can contribute to to the the ideation, the decision.
00:34:51.020 --> 00:34:56.420 lorraine margherita: They are part of what's going to happen. They can see that they helped move the needle.
00:34:56.940 --> 00:35:03.639 lorraine margherita: They helped with the impact that is being seen. And it's it's very powerful, very powerful.
00:35:04.790 --> 00:35:12.429 Mira Brancu: I'm curious about a couple of things based on that. So you mentioned if you get the right people, decisions will be better.
00:35:13.070 --> 00:35:17.530 Mira Brancu: That implies that leaders have enough humility
00:35:17.870 --> 00:35:30.070 Mira Brancu: to realize. Maybe I'm not the right person like there are leaders, managers who think I I've been there done that, or I have an Mba or I have this, you know.
00:35:30.500 --> 00:35:35.109 Mira Brancu: you know, expertise and degree in this, you know
00:35:35.370 --> 00:35:41.170 Mira Brancu: situation, and therefore I am the best person to make this decision.
00:35:41.580 --> 00:35:44.430 Mira Brancu: so is the implication
00:35:44.750 --> 00:35:51.739 Mira Brancu: that you have to have enough humility to say I might not be the right person, or I might not be the only right person.
00:35:51.740 --> 00:36:04.440 lorraine margherita: That that wording would be better, I guess. Yeah, I might not be the only person it's just, you know. It's it's not just a matter of saying I have that degree, or have that experience, or you know I'm that old.
00:36:04.520 --> 00:36:14.939 lorraine margherita: It's also because you can't see and do everything on your own. You know you have the right degree, and you have maybe the right connections and the experience.
00:36:15.090 --> 00:36:16.080 lorraine margherita: And
00:36:16.230 --> 00:36:17.930 lorraine margherita: you are still one person.
00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:23.299 lorraine margherita: So you know, if we go back to the example we were taking earlier about the the customers.
00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:28.890 lorraine margherita: If you're the CEO, you don't see the customers as much as the people who are in a store.
00:36:29.180 --> 00:36:34.419 lorraine margherita: or the people who answer their customer service. Hotline, you know.
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:52.499 lorraine margherita: So it it does require humility. And it's also, I think it's much more fun, you know, when you have more people involved in the process. Oftentimes, when I have a room with 200 managers, and we say what? What is? What happened in the last few months or year? That makes us proud.
00:36:52.770 --> 00:37:03.570 lorraine margherita: I I didn't do the statistics. But I I would say that at least 2 thirds, not to say 3 quarters of the answers, have something to do with our teams.
00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:09.680 lorraine margherita: the people they hire, the people they met the people they so, you know, grow and develop.
00:37:09.750 --> 00:37:16.320 lorraine margherita: and and they were so happy to manage to do something that obviously they cannot do on their own. And
00:37:16.620 --> 00:37:23.384 lorraine margherita: I I have a lot of respect for my clients, for the leaders and managers I work with. I couldn't do their job. That's what I say very often.
00:37:23.998 --> 00:37:36.200 lorraine margherita: However, I bring something that they they cannot have inside the company, and I see that they know a lot. They've done a lot, and yet they cannot see everything, they cannot hear everything.
00:37:36.300 --> 00:38:00.399 lorraine margherita: And so and they're and they're oftentimes, you know, when when they have this, oftentimes it comes from them. They feel that they need to leave room to their companies, and they're oftentimes so happy and so surprised also by what the the teams can come up with. Oftentimes, you know, I've heard several times in my interviews that when you ask the teams either what they can save when the time is to save, or what they can achieve.
00:38:00.730 --> 00:38:02.599 lorraine margherita: If you let them answer.
00:38:02.620 --> 00:38:07.780 lorraine margherita: they will have a more demanding answer than if you were the managers telling them what to do.
00:38:08.553 --> 00:38:10.669 Mira Brancu: Well, that says a lot
00:38:11.090 --> 00:38:22.730 Mira Brancu: that says a lot about your, you know, empowering people to identify what needs to to be done and what they see as the opportunity and the promise of
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:25.810 Mira Brancu: the company and and their teams. And you know.
00:38:26.300 --> 00:38:28.559 Mira Brancu: in that way, I think about
00:38:29.250 --> 00:38:32.069 Mira Brancu: the larger the organization
00:38:32.540 --> 00:38:34.559 Mira Brancu: right then, therefore.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:40.260 Mira Brancu: most likely in many organizations, the more levels of hierarchy.
00:38:40.370 --> 00:38:41.900 Mira Brancu: and therefore
00:38:42.460 --> 00:38:46.939 Mira Brancu: each person at higher levels only has some visibility
00:38:46.990 --> 00:38:50.300 Mira Brancu: into what's happening across the company.
00:38:50.520 --> 00:39:10.630 Mira Brancu: they might have great visibility in their external stakeholders or board members, but very little in sort of the day to day operations. It reminds me of. I forgot the the name of the show, but there was a show on TV where they had the boss go to, you know. Serve on in the front line.
00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:11.300 lorraine margherita: To see what it's.
00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:11.990 Mira Brancu: Like right.
00:39:11.990 --> 00:39:12.710 lorraine margherita: Yeah, yeah.
00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:34.090 Mira Brancu: And what they learn from that. And that is very powerful because we lose sight, no matter how much you try at. You know higher and higher leadership levels to stay in touch. You do lose sight because you have to make more room in your brain for other things that are important. So bringing back in those voices, I think, makes a lot of sense. Now, I'm curious. Are there
00:39:34.810 --> 00:39:36.310 Mira Brancu: industries
00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:38.310 Mira Brancu: that
00:39:38.530 --> 00:39:39.600 Mira Brancu: it makes
00:39:40.190 --> 00:39:49.729 Mira Brancu: more sense for managers to be more like, quote unquote micro managers like old school industrial revolution type
00:39:49.910 --> 00:39:51.210 Mira Brancu: versus
00:39:51.668 --> 00:39:59.829 Mira Brancu: what you're talking about, which which is, trust the people and give them the opportunity to take the task on.
00:40:01.370 --> 00:40:04.010 lorraine margherita: So give them the opportunity and give them the.
00:40:04.210 --> 00:40:09.599 lorraine margherita: It's not only giving them the space it's really the giving them the framework for them to
00:40:09.610 --> 00:40:25.820 lorraine margherita: to use that space properly. Honestly, I think the answer is no, that was the that was the starting point. When I, when I started to write a book. Believe it or not, the difficult part was not to gather the stories or to interview people. It was to not
00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:28.589 lorraine margherita: share all the stories I could have told.
00:40:29.060 --> 00:40:42.419 lorraine margherita: So I I it was on purpose that I I interviewed very different companies more than 30 companies in 14 countries, I think, in all kinds of industries.
00:40:43.090 --> 00:40:45.319 lorraine margherita: because my point was.
00:40:47.300 --> 00:40:49.159 lorraine margherita: every company can do that
00:40:49.520 --> 00:40:53.270 lorraine margherita: like plants have made their workers
00:40:53.650 --> 00:40:58.850 lorraine margherita: be more autonomous. An airline has done the same. Lego has done the same.
00:40:58.890 --> 00:41:02.990 lorraine margherita: Patagonia has done the same. So you know, it's it's a
00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:07.199 lorraine margherita: across industries, across countries. There is always room
00:41:07.470 --> 00:41:22.749 lorraine margherita: to let people just do their job, I would say. And I think when I when I look at what they have in common, one of the things they have in common is how they see the world and how they see people, how they see humanity.
00:41:23.190 --> 00:41:25.940 lorraine margherita: I think it has nothing to do with the industry.
00:41:27.330 --> 00:41:35.190 lorraine margherita: So I would. I would. I would not say that there are industries where you could expect that managers have, you know, are more present
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:37.920 lorraine margherita: than others. I don't think that's
00:41:38.630 --> 00:41:40.880 lorraine margherita: That's inevitable.
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:47.789 Mira Brancu: Yeah, interesting. So tell me more about this. What what you notice, as the the main difference is how they see the world.
00:41:48.470 --> 00:41:48.990 Mira Brancu: I would.
00:41:48.990 --> 00:41:51.609 lorraine margherita: Say that it's it's it's really.
00:41:51.740 --> 00:41:59.459 lorraine margherita: It's also how you see the the company. Do you see the world as a place where everyone has something to do and something to say.
00:41:59.914 --> 00:42:06.810 lorraine margherita: And then do you trust people to do their job to do it well, to want to do it well.
00:42:06.820 --> 00:42:12.059 lorraine margherita: And trust, for example, is, is a is a great foundation for management.
00:42:12.570 --> 00:42:16.280 lorraine margherita: So and it's not a model. It's not a framework.
00:42:16.430 --> 00:42:21.239 lorraine margherita: but it's a starting point for many companies to say, we trust
00:42:21.670 --> 00:42:28.120 lorraine margherita: we need to trust, and we want to trust our teams the way we would like our customers to trust us.
00:42:28.860 --> 00:42:33.600 lorraine margherita: You won't have customers who trust you if you don't trust your own teams.
00:42:33.710 --> 00:42:41.280 lorraine margherita: So it's just that when I say vision of the world, it. That's what we're talking about. It's it's, do you believe that people will be
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:58.869 lorraine margherita: eager to do their job to the best of their ability to be in the right place, and to make the right choices. Sometimes they will make mistake. And that's another point that is very important. I think the a very important practice in all those models is, or experimentations, or
00:42:59.040 --> 00:43:04.060 lorraine margherita: or path is the feedback, the ability to give proper feedback
00:43:04.170 --> 00:43:07.480 lorraine margherita: to be trained? It's not. It's not easy.
00:43:07.610 --> 00:43:10.880 lorraine margherita: And it's so necessary. And it changes everything.
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:16.379 lorraine margherita: especially when you try that kind of work. Because we were saying earlier, there is no
00:43:16.670 --> 00:43:33.730 lorraine margherita: method, you know, to say, Okay, we'll start January first, st and you know, 2 years later we'll be an empowered company doesn't work that way. It's it's it's sort of ongoing just like the culture, the people in the company. It's ongoing. So you have a starting point. You you find your way
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:35.490 lorraine margherita: to start that path.
00:43:35.690 --> 00:43:50.130 lorraine margherita: and and you need. You need support for the teams, and you need training. For example, I I interviewed someone at Airbus. He he empowered an entire plant for the for the program. He was in charge of the A. 380
00:43:50.180 --> 00:43:50.904 lorraine margherita: and
00:43:51.730 --> 00:44:04.099 lorraine margherita: He he discovered after a few weeks that the processes to make decisions, and the roles and the purpose were being done in a very interesting way. And then the teams needed training
00:44:04.310 --> 00:44:08.850 lorraine margherita: to learn how to communicate better and to provide feedback, that would be
00:44:09.220 --> 00:44:15.301 lorraine margherita: both useful and not too aggressive.
00:44:16.170 --> 00:44:16.930 Mira Brancu: Thank you.
00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:26.310 Mira Brancu: I do think that communication and feedback piece is really important. I would love after this next ad break to connect that to
00:44:26.720 --> 00:44:48.199 Mira Brancu: managing like combining trust and low performance. What do you do with that? And you know, how can how can that be sort of incorporated in part of the process. So you're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mira Branco and our guest today, Loren Margarita, author of shared decision making in the corporate arena, and we'll be right back in just a moment.
00:46:51.660 --> 00:47:00.930 Mira Brancu: Welcome back to the heart skills with me, Dr. Mira Bronco and our guest today, Lauren, Margarivita Lauren. We were talking a little bit about like having trust in people
00:47:00.980 --> 00:47:12.740 Mira Brancu: and listening to people's voices. And you started talking about the importance of communication processes, feedback processes. And that's kind of where I was. Just very curious.
00:47:13.940 --> 00:47:15.160 Mira Brancu: quickly.
00:47:15.680 --> 00:47:18.150 Mira Brancu: What? How? How does
00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:27.707 Mira Brancu: How does that connect to trust? And ultimately the addressing low performance?
00:47:28.660 --> 00:47:36.820 Mira Brancu: Can you have both. Can you have trust in people and having to give hard feedback when you have low performance?
00:47:37.130 --> 00:47:37.680 lorraine margherita: Hmm
00:47:38.645 --> 00:47:43.530 lorraine margherita: well, I guess if you so we're talking about the the needs for
00:47:43.900 --> 00:47:46.740 lorraine margherita: real or proper feedback.
00:47:46.930 --> 00:47:56.419 lorraine margherita: I don't know if you know the notion of radical candor. Have you heard that phrase? I like that very much? I use that with my clients when we train about feedback.
00:47:56.540 --> 00:48:15.080 lorraine margherita: because it it says that challenge that feedback. Sorry will will work if you combine caring and challenging. I I like that very much, because I think that you do need to pay attention to when and how you you give feedback. And that's for everyone everywhere, I would say.
00:48:15.540 --> 00:48:34.258 lorraine margherita: And also you need to challenge, because if you don't, then you will let people believe that something is okay when it's not or when you will say okay to someone someone you know in the same team will realize. Well, I was doing better. That is not really okay. And we don't say anything. We pretend it's fine. So
00:48:34.610 --> 00:48:39.920 lorraine margherita: you know it's not. It's not very positive in in the long run.
00:48:40.030 --> 00:48:45.580 lorraine margherita: So I think that when performance is not there it has to be said.
00:48:45.890 --> 00:49:10.669 lorraine margherita: and and I don't want. I don't want to pretend that empowerment is the solution to everything for everyone, and it will solve all your problems, and the world will be the perfect place, and that's the reason why I interviewed someone about a mistake in his team. It was it was Lego again in Romania and the general manager tells the story of how someone in his team made a mistake with a budget, and so they had to
00:49:10.720 --> 00:49:17.389 lorraine margherita: find ways to go through the rest of the year with less budget than they could have.
00:49:17.470 --> 00:49:18.870 lorraine margherita: And
00:49:19.240 --> 00:49:28.526 lorraine margherita: he it was interesting how he described that he did give the feedback. And obviously there was a problem. Everyone could see it, so it was said.
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:37.309 lorraine margherita: and the next step was to sit together at the same table with the team and say, Okay, now, we have less resources than we could have hoped.
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:49.809 lorraine margherita: How do we handle the rest of the year together? And then they, I think that maybe it's just like every one of us. I don't think that we learn from being yelled at because there was something that went wrong.
00:49:50.140 --> 00:50:06.580 lorraine margherita: I think that we learned, because we all know that something that went wrong like if you break something. I don't have to tell you that you broke something. You know it so I am pretty sure that most of the mistakes are identified by the people who make them so. No need to, you know, to make a fuss about them.
00:50:06.620 --> 00:50:25.349 lorraine margherita: However, as always. What what happened that led to that mistake? And also, is it a mistake by one person that I don't know didn't pay attention, or it was a wrong calculation or wrong information, or whatever or is it the context, the framework
00:50:25.380 --> 00:50:34.139 lorraine margherita: for that decision to be made that was not really the right one. And maybe the person was making a decision without having the right information or the right skills.
00:50:34.300 --> 00:50:49.009 lorraine margherita: So it's always, you know. And that's why feedback is is so important because we need to be able that to say that something went wrong, and we need to be able to say it both ways. You know it's it's often a shared responsibility.
00:50:49.060 --> 00:50:53.060 lorraine margherita: and to be able to build on what happened. So that next time is better.
00:50:53.420 --> 00:50:54.750 Mira Brancu: Yeah. And you know.
00:50:55.230 --> 00:50:56.709 Mira Brancu: if I were to
00:50:56.740 --> 00:51:00.599 Mira Brancu: pull all of this together that you've been talking about.
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:01.890 Mira Brancu: you know.
00:51:02.500 --> 00:51:04.130 Mira Brancu: empowerment
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:10.689 Mira Brancu: and trust in people to help provide input into decision making does not mean
00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:14.659 Mira Brancu: letting go of
00:51:15.130 --> 00:51:18.770 Mira Brancu: all control and turning it into chaos.
00:51:18.820 --> 00:51:21.420 Mira Brancu: It means creating the
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:23.510 Mira Brancu: right container
00:51:23.620 --> 00:51:25.130 Mira Brancu: and structure
00:51:25.330 --> 00:51:31.130 Mira Brancu: for people to have effective conversations, effective decision-making processes.
00:51:31.300 --> 00:51:32.310 Mira Brancu: and
00:51:32.410 --> 00:51:34.229 Mira Brancu: to engage in
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:37.279 Mira Brancu: hard, thoughtful, critical conversations
00:51:37.560 --> 00:51:53.690 Mira Brancu: in order to get to that final solution. If you can't provide that structure and container. You can't have the rest of it. That's what I'm hearing from you, and so like. Now let's let's blow it back out. We talked a lot about sociocracy type
00:51:53.690 --> 00:52:08.290 Mira Brancu: organizations and holocracy models for organizations. We haven't talked about how you end your book around living and learning organizations. And I'm curious how how might those impact
00:52:09.180 --> 00:52:13.069 Mira Brancu: global outcomes for organizations? What are those like.
00:52:13.330 --> 00:52:26.383 lorraine margherita: What what I like in this concepts. So again, just like many of the topics that we've not, we've been talking about, they? They have been around for like 50 years. So this is not necessarily all new
00:52:27.221 --> 00:52:46.700 lorraine margherita: even the teal organizations that many people ask me about. The book was published 10 years ago by Frederick Ladou. So this is not necessarily all new. So in in the notion of living organizations, it's the observation I was mentioning. Earlier companies have a limited lifespan, and yet some
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:51.310 lorraine margherita: have grown old. And now we have companies that are more than a hundred years old.
00:52:51.890 --> 00:53:02.849 lorraine margherita: and one of the things they have in common. It's not scientific. It was an observation by the the prospective team at shell around a man named Ari de Goos.
00:53:03.030 --> 00:53:25.680 lorraine margherita: and he noticed with his team companies in Japan, the Us. And Europe that were very old. And one thing that they have in common is the the awareness, the consciousness of their environment, and their ability to focus on the inside when times are tough, that those are my words. But that's the idea, and I can't help doing it with my hands, and to expand when times are better.
00:53:25.680 --> 00:53:33.710 lorraine margherita: and to be able to explore new markets or new ways of doing things, and that movement is
00:53:33.710 --> 00:53:58.031 lorraine margherita: the movement that we do when we breathe. It's like going out and then back again and out again and back again. And that's just like an organism. So that's why he wrote a book. And I think it's 1990 called the Living Organization, and stemming from that is the notion of learning organization that we can find in the 5th Discipline by Peter Sange. I think that those names will ring bells.
00:53:58.725 --> 00:54:08.239 lorraine margherita: And so the the notion of learning organization is also that ability to learn together, to to be willing to reach a certain vision and ambition
00:54:08.390 --> 00:54:13.450 lorraine margherita: and and to set initiatives free. Basically.
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:30.539 lorraine margherita: So it's it's sort of a mindset, you. You see, in everything we're saying. A lot of of the foundation. The roots of all these stories is the culture and and the intention of a group of individuals, thinking that if let people
00:54:30.700 --> 00:54:39.410 lorraine margherita: innovate, try and trust themselves and trust others, the outcome will be better than if they try to control and constraint everything.
00:54:39.450 --> 00:54:41.760 lorraine margherita: And I think that you know. Sorry. Yeah.
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:42.809 Mira Brancu: Go ahead! Go ahead!
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:52.330 lorraine margherita: I I think that in a in a world that is becoming more and more complex and uncertain, we've been talking about uncertainty same thing since the 19 eighties
00:54:52.928 --> 00:55:06.009 lorraine margherita: and and before that it was not necessarily a very, you know, quiet world. So I think that going faster with more competitors coming from different places that were not expected.
00:55:06.090 --> 00:55:12.430 lorraine margherita: It really requires to be able to gather all the forces and to stop losing time on, you know.
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:15.620 lorraine margherita: wanting to control what is not controllable.
00:55:16.740 --> 00:55:45.050 Mira Brancu: That is exactly what I was gonna say, and I'm glad you said it. Yeah, what you're talking about is is a certain level of adaptability to respond to the constant changes in the world and the needs that the world has, and teach your employees to do that too, and teach your, you know, internal folks to do that because it benefits us, and it benefits your teams, and it benefits the world. And that's exactly kind of where where you're going with it. So everybody, if you're interested
00:55:45.250 --> 00:56:02.160 Mira Brancu: in learning more about Loren's work, you can go to codynamics, co hyphen dynamics.net and find out more about her. You can also find her on Linkedin and audience. What did you take away from today?
00:56:02.220 --> 00:56:26.930 Mira Brancu: And, more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement, even if it's just you and your family, or you and your community, and you and your team and your organization based on what you learned from Lauren. Share it with us on Linkedin, and we can cheer you on. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, apple spotify Amazon all over the place, so please help us increase our visibility. Reach and impact by leaving a review.
00:56:27.070 --> 00:56:43.900 Mira Brancu: The stuff we talk about on this show is also part of our research based strategic leadership, pathway, roadmap that we teach in our taroscope Leadership Academy and other programs in order to help socially conscious leaders and disrupted learning and innovation industries. Looking to make a greater impact.
00:56:43.900 --> 00:56:58.369 Mira Brancu: You can find us@gotowerscope.com and thank you to talk radio Nyc for hosting. I'm Dr. Mira Branco, your host of the Hard Skills show. Thank you for joining us today with our guest, Loren Margarita.
00:56:58.420 --> 00:57:02.889 Mira Brancu: have a great rest of your day wherever you're tuning in from. Thank you, Lauren.
00:57:03.260 --> 00:57:05.300 lorraine margherita: Thank you very much. Mira. Thanks everyone.
00:57:05.450 --> 00:57:06.580 Mira Brancu: Hi! Everybody!
00:57:06.580 --> 00:57:07.760 lorraine margherita: Bye.
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