Philanthropy in Phocus

Friday, June 28, 2024
Facebook Live Video from 2024/06/28 - Saving the World: Nonprofit Insights with Steve Mayer

Facebook Live Video from 2024/06/28 - Saving the World: Nonprofit Insights with Steve Mayer


2024/06/28 - Saving the World: Nonprofit Insights with Steve Mayer

[NEW EPISODE] Saving the World: Nonprofit Insights with Steve Mayer

Fridays 10:00am - 11:00am (EDT)


Get some ideas about how to:

- Pitch your organization's strengths

- Appeal to individual donors' interests

- Strengthen your organization so it sells better

- Upgrade your communication strategies

- Enhance your evaluation efforts

- Make your mission come alive

Studied organizational psychology, earning a doctorate degree from Univ Minnesota. Started a non-profit research organization, Rainbow Research, Inc, and a spin-off called Effective Communities Project.

Consulted to dozens of major foundations, and engaged hundreds of nonprofits around the country, and internationally. Taught "Nonprofit Program Development and Evaluation" at Johns Hopkins University.

Created a website ( to pass on what he and his team have been learning about effectiveness in nonprofits and foundations.

Company: Effective Communities Project


Facebook: Effective Communities Project

LinkedIn: Steven E. Mayer, Ph.D

Tune in for this sensible conversation at

Show Notes

Segment 1

Segment 2

Segment 3

Segment 4


00:00:36.490 --> 00:00:36.900 Tommy DiMisa: Back.

00:00:37.930 --> 00:00:49.849 Tommy DiMisa: In focus. We are back 2 flights up from the kitchen, 2 cups of coffee, a big Mason jar of water, and an incredible guest on the show philanthropy and focus you're going to want and only nonprofit sector

00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:57.390 Tommy DiMisa: connector. It's all about the connections. It's all about the relationships. It's all about helping nonprofit leaders tell their story.

00:00:57.810 --> 00:01:05.150 Tommy DiMisa: amplify their message, and that's what it is for me, man, I got to tell you. My guest doesn't know this, but today, for

00:01:05.390 --> 00:01:28.649 Tommy DiMisa: the way the universe works. Steve Mayer, this is the 170th episode of philanthropy and focus. Just an idea, baby, just something I came up with. And now we've done it 170 times, and that, you know, that's after kind of playing around a little bit and saying to my friends, hey, let's do this. Just jump on, zoom, let's do this way before I even came on here on Talkrader NYC to do the show. But

00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:48.999 Tommy DiMisa: 170, and my sales professionals can relate to this we talk about on a plan of 5,000. So if you're a sales guy or gal. You go. I'm at 170 on a plan of 5,000, meaning the quota. The number, the objective is 5,000 shows. I don't know why I said I was going to do 5,000 shows, but that is the number I came up with. But I think here's what's going to happen

00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:56.660 Tommy DiMisa: eventually. The show goes every morning, Monday through Friday, so not every morning, but Monday through Friday. I'll do this show, because selfishly.

00:01:57.190 --> 00:02:16.599 Tommy DiMisa: I really enjoy it makes me feel good, and there's plenty of nonprofits to feature and tell their stories, and, as I say, amplify their message. So the show started back in 2021 officially here on the network, January 8, th 2021 1st ever episode of philanthropy being focused where I interviewed my friend Katie Mcgowan from horseibility.

00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:33.119 Tommy DiMisa: What a special organization that is! It's something I say all the time what a special organization that is! I need to get a little more creative. But they're all special. They're all impactful. They're all important. Today is a little bit of a break from the usual, and Steve Mayer is here who

00:02:33.130 --> 00:02:34.019 Tommy DiMisa: it has

00:02:34.090 --> 00:03:03.090 Tommy DiMisa: decades and decades of experience in working with consulting with and educating leaders and nonprofit organizations. I will just talk to you a bit about the power of media social media, this show different things like that. If it wasn't for this show I don't meet Steve Mayor. If it wasn't for somebody on Steve's team, who I'll have him introduce her not literally that she's not here with us, but mention her when we start to talk. If it wasn't for people reaching out and making the connections.

00:03:03.100 --> 00:03:10.409 Tommy DiMisa: I don't know all the people I know. So why would I tell you that? Well, it's important to recognize people, and it's also important to say

00:03:10.910 --> 00:03:12.909 Tommy DiMisa: you are connected

00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:14.330 Tommy DiMisa: to people

00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:17.780 Tommy DiMisa: who can get you who you want to meet. I promise you.

00:03:17.880 --> 00:03:21.419 Tommy DiMisa: if you have a list of people you're trying to access.

00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:29.408 Tommy DiMisa: even if they're quote unquote celebrities, right? If they're whatever celebrity is anymore. But I think we think a lot of time. You know, Hollywood.

00:03:30.230 --> 00:03:33.704 Tommy DiMisa: things like that, or athletes celebrities, those kind of celebrities right?

00:03:34.630 --> 00:03:54.579 Tommy DiMisa: But even if you want to reach out to those people, you can get to them. If you have some value and you have a relationship you can get to these different people. Shout out to my friend, Rich Salgado. Big Daddy had a golf outing earlier this week, invited my wife and I to the Vip event Sunday night. His big golf outing was on Monday of this week.

00:03:54.640 --> 00:04:01.330 Tommy DiMisa: and there was some celebrities there that night. A lot of sports, you know, entertainers and sports professionals

00:04:01.656 --> 00:04:16.799 Tommy DiMisa: that are connected to Big Daddy. Big Daddy's a relationship that became in my big daddy, I became connected because of my friend Mj. Padone, who's in the Pr world again, somebody who has a lot of relationships and connections. So I laugh at this, and then we'll get into our conversation with Steve. But I laugh at this.

00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:25.170 Tommy DiMisa: Often I go into these rooms where they people say, Tommy D. You know everybody. Everybody must know you. That isn't true. I know a lot of people.

00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:45.120 Tommy DiMisa: but when I say a lot it's like a few 100 people, right? It just so happens that a lot of the rooms I go into the people that I know are in those rooms just the other night, though I was at an event, and I didn't know most of the people, and that's the most exciting for me. So I think there's always an opportunity to connect, build new relationships, form these new partnerships, alliances, whatever they might be.

00:04:45.130 --> 00:04:59.149 Tommy DiMisa: And we'll talk more about that probably today, because I think it's really a relevant topic. When you talk about what I'm going to be doing in the world bringing people together. I have my own things. Maybe Steve and I will talk about it around

00:04:59.810 --> 00:05:20.379 Tommy DiMisa: networking and nurturing relationships for nonprofit organizations which I think is paramount, and it is what I am good at. So I think there's certainly some level of consulting that will come down the road from your boy, the nonprofit sector connector. So, without any more of me just chattering. I want to say good morning and hello to my new friend, Steve Mayor. Steve, good morning. What's going on.

00:05:21.170 --> 00:05:22.850 Steve Mayer: Good morning, Tommy D.

00:05:23.530 --> 00:05:27.280 Steve Mayer: Oh, good! Here I love your opening theme. Music. By the way, that's.

00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:27.600 Tommy DiMisa: Oh!

00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:29.100 Steve Mayer: Everything. You just said.

00:05:29.950 --> 00:05:31.110 Steve Mayer: Yeah, better.

00:05:31.110 --> 00:05:54.680 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's why I'll get that. It's from. Oh, God, it's not Carl Young. It's Carl Sagan. I think it's from Carl Sagan's album. Yeah, yeah, Logan, my producer, Logan, get me the name, if you could, of that song that we use to open up the show. It's not my theme song which you'll get the lyrics to that when we come back from a break, Steve. Those are. Those are pretty fun, too.

00:05:54.690 --> 00:06:02.279 Tommy DiMisa: but it's called Symphony of Science. And am I right, Logan? Is that is it, Carl Sagan? I think it's Carl Sagan. It was a Carl Sagan album

00:06:02.684 --> 00:06:28.089 Tommy DiMisa: that says, like, we're, we're all connected, right? And you know, no clue. Alright. Logan says, no clue. I'll Google it. Then we'll google it. Symphony of science. And you know, on this network, it's it's talking about professionals serving community. And that's a big part of what talk radio, Nyc is about. And I'll tell you way before I

00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:50.230 Tommy DiMisa: that after I got on the network I started to realize that was the slogan of the network professional serving community. And our friend who owns the network here. Sam Liebowitz has a show called The Conscious Consultant Hour. So it's just a lot of fun, and it's like really keying in on those themes, so I'm glad you picked it up. It's funny. I have a friend of mine who we used to do a show on this network together

00:06:50.230 --> 00:07:05.289 Tommy DiMisa: who didn't like that song at all, and would only tell me every time we are about to launch the show that episode she goes. I don't really like this. So shout out Val, love you, Valerie. Alright, Steve Mayor, let's get into this. There's so much to talk about. There's the book.

00:07:05.490 --> 00:07:27.710 Tommy DiMisa: There's the website, effective Communities project. There, there's the book, the I want to get the title of the book right? I I was just reading it this morning. So how to save the world. That's the name of the book, Steve. Right? And then there's a subtitle. And then the subtitle has a subtitle. So why would you tell us what a cool name, how to save the world? That's provocative, right?

00:07:28.780 --> 00:07:35.130 Steve Mayer: Provocative, and I was surprised to find there's a number of other books called How to Save the World Out there, so I had to

00:07:35.350 --> 00:07:51.249 Steve Mayer: separate myself from the others, how to save the world, evaluating your choices because I come up from evaluation. And then in a personal twist, the 3rd subtitle is when to say yes, to request, to donate. Now.

00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:52.610 Steve Mayer: because.

00:07:52.610 --> 00:07:52.990 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah.

00:07:52.990 --> 00:08:00.149 Steve Mayer: We are all besieged with requests to donate and be helpful, and we don't know how to sort through them. Book tries to help with that.

00:08:00.150 --> 00:08:07.200 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, yeah, isn't that is not so true? That statement? You know, especially more now than ever with.

00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:33.569 Tommy DiMisa: you know the different medias that are coming at us, you know, and and when we speak to our friends in the nonprofit sector we talk about, you know, reaching out to people where they are. So if you're if you think your donors or supporters or our Facebook types, then you go to Facebook. If you think their Instagram types and you go to Instagram. Right? I think the challenge with all that is, if you're somebody who's on these multimedias, you might be getting hit from, you know similar organizations or a specific organization

00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:51.649 Tommy DiMisa: several times, which, honestly, is not a bad thing. I don't. But what your point is is when to say yes, to request to donate now and back ahead, evaluating your choices. We gotta be thoughtful about this stuff, Steve. You know we have to try to figure out what aligns with us, you know, in our heart.

00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:56.479 Tommy DiMisa: in our focus on the world, through the lens we see the world different things like that, right.

00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:03.280 Steve Mayer: Absolutely gotta be thoughtful. Gotta be intentional. And I think most people want to be helpful.

00:09:03.280 --> 00:09:04.020 Tommy DiMisa: Woohoos.

00:09:04.410 --> 00:09:09.580 Steve Mayer: The world is in a difficult place right now, and there's stress everywhere. Fatigue

00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.839 Steve Mayer: funders are stressed, donors are stressed, nonprofits are stressed, people

00:09:13.940 --> 00:09:15.650 Steve Mayer: on the streets are stressed.

00:09:15.770 --> 00:09:17.020 Steve Mayer: and

00:09:17.270 --> 00:09:18.810 Steve Mayer: there's a kind of

00:09:18.980 --> 00:09:29.810 Steve Mayer: frantic attempt to be useful. But there's so much information coming at people, and so many appeals for help that. It's hard for folks to sort it all through.

00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:49.470 Steve Mayer: and there's a kind of donor fatigue that is set in with so many people that the tendency is to, you know, turn off the TV. Turn off the headphones and and just sort of bunker down. But we have to stand up and figure out some smarter ways of being helpful.

00:09:49.670 --> 00:09:51.409 Steve Mayer: and that's what I'm

00:09:51.630 --> 00:09:52.680 Steve Mayer: here to talk about.

00:09:52.680 --> 00:09:56.639 Tommy DiMisa: I love, and we're gonna talk about that. So maybe we'll get into donor fatigue. But

00:09:56.680 --> 00:10:07.139 Tommy DiMisa: you know the thing for me. I really, you know, Steve, like I said, we we were connected from someone who worked doesn't work with you. Why don't you shout her out just as a bit of gratitude for getting us connected.

00:10:07.670 --> 00:10:11.669 Steve Mayer: Pam Mccarthy, probably listening in with a little group called

00:10:11.920 --> 00:10:13.660 Steve Mayer: because collective

00:10:13.800 --> 00:10:16.329 Steve Mayer: and or because collected. That's.

00:10:16.330 --> 00:10:17.060 Tommy DiMisa: Because.

00:10:17.060 --> 00:10:18.390 Steve Mayer: I think correct.

00:10:18.390 --> 00:10:19.410 Tommy DiMisa: Shout out to Pam!

00:10:19.410 --> 00:10:20.659 Steve Mayer: Cars related and.

00:10:20.660 --> 00:10:49.686 Tommy DiMisa: Shout out to Pam, thanks for making the connection right, because if we don't do this, you and I never meet, and I'm telling you. I was rereading your book this morning, and I was telling you right before we got started. I I want to be able to. I don't love reading electronic books. I don't like a kindle. I like paper. I like to, because I like to, you know, kind of bend pages and write in the margins and highlight and circle. And you know, I look at these books. Yeah, like, I have a friend of mine who calls these guidebooks. I look at these as my guidebook, Steve Mayor, you know. So

00:10:50.170 --> 00:10:52.149 Steve Mayer: Is a guidebook. It's not a textbook.

00:10:52.385 --> 00:11:21.100 Tommy DiMisa: I didn't call it a textbook. We did that earlier. So I I said textbook earlier and Steve goes. It's not a textbook. It's a guidebook, and I agree with you 100. But I always say that you know I have a lot of books that are my guide books. They were my textbooks until about 15 min ago, but now they're my guide books. But those books I write in the Margins, man I and I. If I have a book. I want you to have, Steve. I'm not gonna lend you my copy. I'm gonna buy you a copy because I already wrote in mine. So it's already, and it's already bent up, man, it's got like business.

00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:22.789 Steve Mayer: Need a new one. I'll send you a new one.

00:11:22.790 --> 00:11:37.070 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, absolutely. But I the thing about books is, you know, I I have them all around me in the attic, and there's a lot of energy. I think you know, that comes from books, even if you don't go to them all the time they're there. There's they have messaging, and they have

00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:50.060 Tommy DiMisa: You know, we have connection to books. So we don't gotta get too deep into that. I want to talk specifically about your book. We'll get to that. But I want to go to your background. So studied organizational psychology earning a doctorate degree from the University of Minnesota.

00:11:50.520 --> 00:11:56.659 Tommy DiMisa: started a nonprofit research organization, Rainbow Research Incorporated. What were you gonna say? Sorry, Steve.

00:11:58.210 --> 00:12:03.019 Steve Mayer: No, I well, I you know I finally dropped out of school after getting a doctorate.

00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:04.550 Tommy DiMisa: That you know what, how.

00:12:04.550 --> 00:12:05.820 Steve Mayer: Up this nonprofit.

00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:06.445 Tommy DiMisa: How

00:12:07.310 --> 00:12:21.209 Tommy DiMisa: I mean. So that's interesting. Let's play right there for a second. You finally dropped out after getting a doctorate. So I see you. I'm winking at you. That's cute. I get it. However, you never stop learning right? You're not. Maybe you're not matriculating or or something, but we're always learning.

00:12:21.630 --> 00:12:33.089 Steve Mayer: Always, always. I got bookshelves full of books. I even read them once in a while, and I'm always learning, and where I've learned the most actually, I think, is

00:12:33.150 --> 00:12:34.889 Steve Mayer: talking to people who

00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:45.140 Steve Mayer: live and breathe and work in nonprofits. But I was fortunate in my career at Rainbow research, and and later to get gigs

00:12:45.190 --> 00:12:48.820 Steve Mayer: working on commission from foundations typically

00:12:49.030 --> 00:13:03.080 Steve Mayer: to help them understand what makes for an effective nonprofit organization. And they particularly want to know if their own grant making has been effective, and so they send me out to visit their grantees

00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:16.620 Steve Mayer: and learn from them. And and that was that was my approach. I it's it's a process called appreciative inquiry. Yes, I love that name, appreciative inquiry, and I would

00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:18.989 Steve Mayer: say in my introductory

00:13:19.140 --> 00:13:22.009 Steve Mayer: meetings with folks, that

00:13:22.530 --> 00:13:27.820 Steve Mayer: my goal is to be kind of a co-discoverer with you, who are doing the work

00:13:27.870 --> 00:13:31.020 Steve Mayer: and learn from you. Now my job is to

00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:33.729 Steve Mayer: lift up those features

00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:39.050 Steve Mayer: of a nonprofit's work that seemed to make for effectiveness.

00:13:39.930 --> 00:13:44.069 Steve Mayer: Now you could ask me, what do you mean? Effectiveness? And I'll say

00:13:44.490 --> 00:13:50.109 Steve Mayer: it means making progress on the mission of the nonprofit organization.

00:13:50.110 --> 00:14:08.169 Tommy DiMisa: So I want to slow down, lift up the features of the nonprofit. You said, right? And okay. So so I'm going to ask you to dive in. You said you could ask me, and I'm going to ask you even further. Let's dive into effectiveness. I mean, that is, I do want to go back after you talk about effectiveness, because I want to understand

00:14:08.420 --> 00:14:17.049 Tommy DiMisa: why nonprofits, you know. How did you get involved? I mean, you you taught at Johns Hopkins. Nonprofit program development evaluation like.

00:14:17.130 --> 00:14:24.529 Tommy DiMisa: you know what? Let's hold the effectiveness piece. Let's put that aside. Why did you get to this part? Why did you get to this work? Why is there?

00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:26.909 Tommy DiMisa: How, what's how, and why?

00:14:27.560 --> 00:14:29.464 Steve Mayer: Good question. Well.

00:14:30.490 --> 00:14:36.300 Steve Mayer: as I said, I went to school for a long time. I didn't like it@firstst

00:14:36.490 --> 00:14:39.030 Steve Mayer: College I slept through it

00:14:39.430 --> 00:14:42.780 Steve Mayer: for the most part got a ton of incompletes

00:14:43.305 --> 00:14:48.089 Steve Mayer: but got a job working. This was near in Washington, DC.

00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:49.820 Steve Mayer: Got a job

00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:59.160 Steve Mayer: with one of those what they call Beltway bandits. Those think tanks that line the perimeter of DC, all doing contract work for the Federal Government.

00:15:00.605 --> 00:15:01.450 Steve Mayer: And

00:15:01.830 --> 00:15:04.680 Steve Mayer: my job was to organize the library.

00:15:04.870 --> 00:15:05.990 Steve Mayer: and

00:15:06.020 --> 00:15:13.910 Steve Mayer: which is, I kind of asked for that job. Actually, I walked right into the President's office, and I said I'd like a job, and I can organize your library something like that.

00:15:13.910 --> 00:15:22.510 Tommy DiMisa: Did you? Really? No, no, hold on, I don't know. It's your you and me are similar in the in this way, like I'm not sure if you'd be a wise guy, or if you really asked for that.

00:15:22.510 --> 00:15:23.030 Steve Mayer: You're.

00:15:23.030 --> 00:15:25.317 Tommy DiMisa: Never that. Yeah.

00:15:26.300 --> 00:15:27.899 Tommy DiMisa: Did you really have it gig.

00:15:27.900 --> 00:15:31.649 Steve Mayer: I did. I I earlier had a job with

00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:34.629 Steve Mayer: an economics research outfit.

00:15:34.730 --> 00:15:37.490 Steve Mayer: They put me to work organizing their library.

00:15:38.150 --> 00:15:44.506 Steve Mayer: That was, I was an Econ major at the time, and I decided I hated economics and

00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:57.129 Steve Mayer: drifted towards psychology. I said, Well, maybe I can get a job at the psychology organization looked in the yellow pages under Social science research found a bunch of them. And I called one up

00:15:57.150 --> 00:15:59.449 Steve Mayer: Human Sciences research. It was called

00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:11.820 Steve Mayer: asked to talk to the President and told him, Hey, I just finished organizing the library of this other place economics Associates. Maybe I could do that for you. And he said.

00:16:12.090 --> 00:16:13.369 Steve Mayer: Come on in

00:16:13.630 --> 00:16:18.709 Steve Mayer: and let's talk. And I did. And I got the job a part-time job

00:16:19.250 --> 00:16:22.090 Steve Mayer: after those classes I never went to

00:16:22.250 --> 00:16:25.009 Steve Mayer: and and

00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:34.589 Steve Mayer: organizing a library. I got pretty familiar with the sort of things they were doing and the research people they had working for them all social sciences.

00:16:34.660 --> 00:16:38.940 Steve Mayer: all doing interesting stuff. And I said, Hey, I could be helpful to you guys.

00:16:39.020 --> 00:16:51.229 Steve Mayer: What do you need? I'll find it for you and and I did, and then I became kind of a research assistant, and and then their little economy crashed a bit, and they said, Look.

00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:54.980 Steve Mayer: if you're serious about doing this kind of work. You need to go to graduate school.

00:16:55.030 --> 00:17:00.379 Steve Mayer: And I said, Well, okay, I you know, I have only a C average and about 30 incompletes.

00:17:00.470 --> 00:17:10.190 Steve Mayer: And so we'll go fix that up. We'll write up a recommendation for you. And so that happened, I got into Ohio state the psychology program.

00:17:10.760 --> 00:17:21.129 Steve Mayer: I then transferred to University of Minnesota, and I loved it. I had a great time. It was a good time to be on campus, a lot of ferment going on.

00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:22.930 Steve Mayer: And then

00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:26.360 Steve Mayer: I was encouraged to go get a real job. And

00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:31.080 Steve Mayer: I I've got one at a sort of major university in the Psych Department.

00:17:31.420 --> 00:17:35.399 Steve Mayer: and I realized that it's like that. Academia wasn't for me.

00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:45.280 Steve Mayer: I needed to serve something larger than academia or something more useful. I I felt the need to be useful.

00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:57.999 Tommy DiMisa: So let me ask you that we gotta go to quick break. I wanna ask you this when we come back. I'll ask you now, so you could think about it. We'll go to break like you say Academy wasn't for you. That means to me. If I'm reading between the lines, you know, being a professor.

00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.220 Tommy DiMisa: you know, on campus teaching, educating.

00:18:01.460 --> 00:18:10.139 Tommy DiMisa: Correct me if I'm wrong. Actually, it's answered before we go to break. Did that mean for you there wasn't enough impact in the work. Is that what made you go look for more.

00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:12.010 Steve Mayer: Yes.

00:18:13.304 --> 00:18:16.609 Steve Mayer: teaching was cool. I like teaching

00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:20.900 Steve Mayer: wasn't quite using what I knew

00:18:20.930 --> 00:18:26.869 Steve Mayer: in the best way I needed to mix it up in the real world, not on campus. And so that's what I went to do.

00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:45.610 Tommy DiMisa: I love that. All right. We're going to continue with Steve Mayer. We're going to talk about his book. We're going to talk about really important topics for the nonprofit sector, as I say today, is a bit of a difference, because we're going to be educating leaders of nonprofits, not just focusing on a specific nonprofit. So your boy, the nonprofit sector connector, we'll be right back.

00:20:59.620 --> 00:21:10.760 Tommy DiMisa: The whole world is about connections. It's all about relationships. It's all about. Who are you connected to? Who are you supporting? Who are you looking out for? And who are you building relationships with? That's what I believe the book. Excuse me. The

00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:31.550 Tommy DiMisa: song that we were talking about at the beginning in the show, Steve and I. It's called the Symphony of Science, and it was produced by Washington-based electronic musician, John D. Boswell, and the project seeks to spread scientific knowledge and philosophy through musical remixes, shout out to Mick Collins, who is my friend, who is involved with

00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:47.009 Tommy DiMisa: bringing merchant services, with paid forward processing, bringing merchant services to businesses and nonprofits. And it's a great friend, great friend in the show, and always looks out for me bringing me this information. He shares even further 2 of Boswell's music videos, a glorious dawn, and we are all connected.

00:21:47.060 --> 00:21:54.300 Tommy DiMisa: I like these already. Feature appearances from Carl Sagan. So I wasn't totally wrong. Just I wasn't totally right. Carl Sagan.

00:21:54.340 --> 00:22:18.610 Tommy DiMisa: Richard Feynman, Neil Degrasse Tyson shout out to ndt love Neil Degrasse Tyson Bill Nye the science Guy and Stephen Hawking. So I actually pulled up the website. Symphony of science. Go check it out. It's just as it sounds dot. We learn a lot. You know what we learn a lot on this show. Incredible things happen. I just keep learning. This is a freestyle show, Steve Mayor, like, we have sort of an agenda we have like a skeleton.

00:22:18.610 --> 00:22:42.249 Tommy DiMisa: although as much as a skeleton house. This is less than that, so it's less of a skeleton. It's sort of like what direction we're going to go. But things happen during the show. All right. Let's get right back into it, though you say I am a professor. I like teaching, but Academia isn't checking all the boxes right? So you want to get out there, quote unquote, get out into the world, into the wilderness a little bit, maybe.

00:22:43.800 --> 00:22:55.530 Steve Mayer: That's right. And just then a book came out from an academic, but it was a good book called Reforms as Experiments, and I like that book reforms as experiments.

00:22:55.860 --> 00:23:15.220 Steve Mayer: I was all about reforms. I was interested in being a reformer, and I knew about experiments and how to do them, and how to learn from the tools of science. And I taught all that stuff, too. I taught the tools of science at the highest levels enough to know when they were useful and when they weren't.

00:23:15.250 --> 00:23:28.289 Steve Mayer: and so well, I dropped out. I went back to Minneapolis, where I'd gone to school for the most part and opened up a consulting company called Rainbow Research.

00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:39.049 Steve Mayer: People try to dissuade me from that name, but I liked it. It was around the corner from Rainbow Cafe, and everyone knew about that. And I set it up

00:23:39.840 --> 00:23:51.300 Steve Mayer: in to distinguish myself from the competition control data and personnel decisions. I didn't want to be mixed up with

00:23:51.810 --> 00:23:58.059 Steve Mayer: those that kind of mission. So my mission was explicitly

00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:07.480 Steve Mayer: to assist socially concerned organizations in responding more effectively to social problems and opportunities.

00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.885 Steve Mayer: and I put my shingle out for hire, and

00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:22.180 Steve Mayer: eventually got some gigs. It was good. I wasn't married with a mortgage at the time. But I was able to.

00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:27.280 Steve Mayer: We got some traction. We figured out what to do and how to be useful.

00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.120 Steve Mayer: maybe you'd like to ask me something.

00:24:32.120 --> 00:24:50.429 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, I mean, I'd like, so I want to. 1st of all, the Rainbow research, I want to talk to you about those 1st few clients, you say. Obviously, it sounds like the years might have been lean if I'm reading into the fact that it was good. You didn't have anybody depending on you, but, you know, assist socially conscious organizations. What does that mean? Tell me about that.

00:24:50.840 --> 00:25:00.880 Steve Mayer: Well, the 1st really substantial gig was to evaluate the States of Minnesota, the States, alcohol and drug

00:25:02.100 --> 00:25:03.889 Steve Mayer: intervention programs.

00:25:04.290 --> 00:25:16.199 Steve Mayer: And I went about that in a way that sort of helped lay a template for future work, namely, to talk to people who experience those programs.

00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:29.240 Steve Mayer: So I wasn't talking to the Budget people or the bean counters, but to the people who were supposed to be the beneficiaries of these alcohol and drug program and ask them about their experience.

00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:32.720 Tommy DiMisa: So let's let me let me. Let's stay there a second. So.

00:25:33.070 --> 00:25:33.420 Steve Mayer: Are.

00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:34.113 Tommy DiMisa: You know.

00:25:34.580 --> 00:25:52.779 Tommy DiMisa: that doesn't seem like that would would be like an Earth shattering idea. But I'm I'm again reading between the lines. I mean that sounds? Wow! We should really speak to who's benefiting or who is receiving these services to make sure that they're getting services that are valuable and impactful to them.

00:25:52.790 --> 00:26:00.929 Tommy DiMisa: Why, why would you need to do that, Steve? Why, it that's not. That's apparently not what everybody was doing. They were speaking to other stakeholders. Maybe.

00:26:02.040 --> 00:26:15.370 Steve Mayer: That's right. They were speaking to other stakeholders, and they would say things like, Well, you can't talk to a drunk to get any information. They're drunk, or they used to be drunk, and they're deluded. Or

00:26:15.928 --> 00:26:19.961 Steve Mayer: they are not authorities on how to do treatment.

00:26:20.850 --> 00:26:28.679 Steve Mayer: And I said, Yeah, that's that's actually why I'm talking to them or listening to them. Because.

00:26:28.830 --> 00:26:31.510 Steve Mayer: as they may not be authorities.

00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:36.699 Steve Mayer: they're the ones who are supposed to benefit. So let's figure out what

00:26:36.810 --> 00:26:40.299 Steve Mayer: is involved in in in in making that happen. So.

00:26:40.300 --> 00:26:43.369 Tommy DiMisa: So through their lens right, seeing the world through their lens.

00:26:43.370 --> 00:26:55.989 Steve Mayer: Their lens, and we did a thing with the bridge for runaway youth, where we talked to runaway youth and to their parents, and asked about their experience, and you would think that's

00:26:56.040 --> 00:27:01.429 Steve Mayer: not revolutionary. But it was very unusual. Because

00:27:01.570 --> 00:27:09.200 Steve Mayer: social sciences are kind of authority-minded, and program administrators are authority minded, and I

00:27:09.792 --> 00:27:21.210 Steve Mayer: you know, back then I was wearing T-shirts, it said, question authority, and so the best way to do that is to talk to the people who were sort of the victims of authority. You might even say.

00:27:21.210 --> 00:27:24.701 Tommy DiMisa: What whatever are we talking about, Steve? Can we can we just kind of say when.

00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.379 Steve Mayer: Deep in the last century.

00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:29.900 Tommy DiMisa: Deep in the last century.

00:27:30.070 --> 00:27:33.200 Tommy DiMisa: the the 70 s. The 80 s. The 90 s. We're talking about.

00:27:33.470 --> 00:27:34.290 Steve Mayer: That's right.

00:27:34.290 --> 00:27:59.069 Tommy DiMisa: Okay. So I see a lot of organizations that specifically serve the population that you were just referring to that have peer advisors and peer, counselors and peer this and peer that, people who have walked in the shoes of the people, that they're serving, that inform programs that inform how efforts are being invested in dollars are being invested right? I mean, that's not what you saw 2030 years ago. You're saying.

00:27:59.690 --> 00:28:00.930 Steve Mayer: That's right. And

00:28:01.010 --> 00:28:02.319 Steve Mayer: I would like to

00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:10.600 Steve Mayer: think that those peer education programs that you're talking about came out of the earlier experience that says

00:28:12.140 --> 00:28:17.130 Steve Mayer: peers can be useful and know something that other people don't.

00:28:17.290 --> 00:28:22.765 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, I love that. I think that's so. That's so important to realize. And and I, again.

00:28:23.070 --> 00:28:49.950 Tommy DiMisa: something's drawing me to talk about the mental health issues or challenges of mental health. And I think, even in that regard it's the same whether you know whether we talk about addiction or mental health. I see a lot of the organizations that I am friendly with and connect with and attend their events again, having peers that are the ones because they can. This is the wrong way to say, but speak the same language. Air quotes right? Have the same dialect, have that same lived experience, I mean. That's what's critically important. From what I can tell.

00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:56.249 Steve Mayer: That's true, and since you bring that up, I don't know if you tolerate a little change of subject here.

00:28:56.250 --> 00:28:58.240 Tommy DiMisa: I would absolutely tolerate it. Sure.

00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:07.469 Steve Mayer: In in the mental. The biggest change that happened in the mental health field that led is changing the name of the field

00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:11.670 Steve Mayer: from mental illness, to mental health.

00:29:11.830 --> 00:29:12.300 Tommy DiMisa: Love, that.

00:29:12.300 --> 00:29:13.940 Steve Mayer: That was an important

00:29:14.320 --> 00:29:18.990 Steve Mayer: paradigm shift, as they say in the trade, because it it

00:29:19.940 --> 00:29:29.909 Steve Mayer: instead of focusing on what people cannot do, or on the diseased part of people or on the deficits of a person or a community.

00:29:30.300 --> 00:29:38.610 Steve Mayer: It's mental health focuses on the more upbeat, the more possible, the more positive the direction to go rather than that.

00:29:39.554 --> 00:29:43.910 Steve Mayer: It was more aspirational, and it gave people

00:29:45.913 --> 00:29:49.930 Steve Mayer: some opportunity to find a way forward.

00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:52.400 Steve Mayer: The term mental illness did not give them.

00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:02.980 Tommy DiMisa: It's thank you for pointing that out. Words have meanings, words have meanings. I say it all the time, mental health, right? Because I believe that to to your point.

00:30:03.070 --> 00:30:26.319 Tommy DiMisa: you know, mental illness is, if I think of it, if I close my eyes and think about it, it's like a shutdown. There's an illness I'm going to deal with that that's whereas health is on opportunity. There's wellness components to that. I can think of things. This I don't. My language sometimes is purpose. So I can think of things more thoughtfully. Quote that one. Put that out there, Tommy D said. I could think of things more thoughtfully, but in in that sense it's like

00:30:26.390 --> 00:30:50.280 Tommy DiMisa: we can see the world of opportunity in mental health versus the mental illness, and I look shout out to one of my friends who's checking in, and it's perfect that she's checking in right now, right on Youtube. She says peers are essential. That's my friend, Yolanda Robano Gross, who is a big fan of the show. I am a big fan of yours and your organization options for community living. Gotta give a shout out, so we'll pull. I pulled up the website.

00:30:50.280 --> 00:31:05.399 Tommy DiMisa: Options of community living provides housing, support services and care coordination for people recovering from mental illness or people having challenges around mental health. Let's say that right? Those living with HIV and Aids and chronic health conditions.

00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:12.209 Tommy DiMisa: Yolanda is a very good friend of mine. I love her, and I love her organization, and she loves my theme song. Steve Mayer. So maybe

00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:23.790 Tommy DiMisa: maybe options couldn't do it without them. Yeah, options couldn't do what we do without them, meaning the peers couldn't do the work they do without peers who were informed by that lived experience.

00:31:23.790 --> 00:31:46.730 Tommy DiMisa: So, so, Yolanda. We talked the other night. We gotta get you back on the show because I know things have evolved. There's some great new programs you wanna talk about with with me, so we'll get you on the show, Steve. So much to talk about when we come back. I actually texted Yolanda this morning, I said, make sure you listen this morning, cause this guy he's got something to share. And I was I was talking about you, Steve. That's who I was talking about when I texted.

00:31:46.730 --> 00:31:47.310 Steve Mayer: Man.

00:31:47.310 --> 00:31:55.529 Tommy DiMisa: You're welcome, man, we're gonna I I came up with some ideas. We gotta go to break when we before we do that, you know I came up with some ideas as I was reading through the book this morning and taking notes. I'm like.

00:31:55.810 --> 00:32:23.119 Tommy DiMisa: man, this guy, Steve Mayor, and I could do something cool together, man, I see some cool opportunities, I mean. And why? I say that is because I'm friends with leaders of nonprofits at a high level in these organizations, and they can benefit from the knowledge. You and I are going to drop all them this morning, so we'll go to a quick break. Then I want to jump into the book. But again, this is freestyle, Steve, this is your show. I'm just here to help you navigate it. So as we go in and out of things, please, I will tolerate whatever you want to do. Today I'm very open.

00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:23.760 Steve Mayer: But not

00:32:24.010 --> 00:32:24.570 Steve Mayer: yet.

00:32:24.570 --> 00:32:25.190 Tommy DiMisa: Gut.

00:32:25.190 --> 00:32:36.840 Steve Mayer: 1 1 closing line. I think Yolanda's organization illustrates another point about assets. Communities have assets, no matter how broken down a community neighborhood might seem

00:32:36.890 --> 00:32:38.160 Steve Mayer: driving through it.

00:32:38.290 --> 00:32:49.170 Steve Mayer: They all have assets people like Yolanda and their peers, who are ready to build something and move toward something, and that requires investment.

00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:52.090 Steve Mayer: And that requires donors. Yeah, segue to the book.

00:32:52.090 --> 00:33:02.540 Tommy DiMisa: Great segue to the book. We will be right back to show's philanthropy and focus the one and only your boy Tommy D. Coming at you 2 flights up from my kitchen just below the roof. I'm in my attic right back.

00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:08.759 Tommy DiMisa: All right. So check it out, everybody checking out world. Your boy, Tommy D. Brings you leaders in the nonprofit sector

00:35:09.110 --> 00:35:31.169 Tommy DiMisa: every Friday morning for 35 years my guest has been producing evidence-based tools to help nonprofits, foundation and others working in social justice to strengthen the work they're doing and providing methods for program evaluation. Some of his best publications and blog posts relating to that work are available on his website, which is called dot

00:35:32.560 --> 00:35:49.920 Tommy DiMisa: dot. I shared it during the break. I will again share it. During the upcoming. Break the name of the book. How to save the world evaluating your choices when to say yes to requests to donate. Now, Steve, let's break it down. Let's talk to them about the book. Let's drop some knowledge, as the young people said.

00:35:52.870 --> 00:35:57.030 Steve Mayer: Okay, knowledge coming your way alright.

00:35:57.730 --> 00:35:58.550 Steve Mayer: Well.

00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:00.110 Steve Mayer: you know how

00:36:00.450 --> 00:36:04.092 Steve Mayer: business types like to say that.

00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:10.610 Steve Mayer: there's there's no way to talk about effectiveness with nonprofits. Because there's no bottom line.

00:36:10.630 --> 00:36:14.730 Steve Mayer: We business sites. We have a bottom line. It's called making money.

00:36:14.730 --> 00:36:15.085 Tommy DiMisa: Right.

00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.460 Steve Mayer: But nonprofits they don't make money.

00:36:19.610 --> 00:36:22.029 Steve Mayer: and they're right about that.

00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:24.690 Steve Mayer: They're not in the business to make money.

00:36:24.770 --> 00:36:27.680 Steve Mayer: They're in the business to make progress.

00:36:27.890 --> 00:36:30.000 Steve Mayer: No, that's not a

00:36:30.130 --> 00:36:39.349 Steve Mayer: mantra that's well known in the nonprofit world. But if you think about it, all nonprofits have a mission, they're different.

00:36:39.510 --> 00:36:43.540 Steve Mayer: They're crazy, different one from the other. They're in

00:36:43.680 --> 00:36:46.990 Steve Mayer: every walk of life imaginable, from

00:36:47.010 --> 00:37:07.579 Steve Mayer: hunger and shelter, and housing, to education and justice and arts and culture, with very different missions. I've never seen 2 organizations with the same mission, but they all have a mission, and they all salute the mission, and their job really is to advance the mission

00:37:07.740 --> 00:37:11.820 Steve Mayer: to make progress against the mission

00:37:13.040 --> 00:37:16.559 Steve Mayer: businesses, make profit, nonprofits make progress.

00:37:16.560 --> 00:37:17.870 Tommy DiMisa: I love that I've never.

00:37:18.175 --> 00:37:18.480 Steve Mayer: I.

00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:27.009 Tommy DiMisa: I've never heard of. Put that with Steve. So I wanna that businesses make profit sure. And then nonprofits make progress.

00:37:27.870 --> 00:37:28.540 Steve Mayer: Right.

00:37:28.540 --> 00:37:29.290 Tommy DiMisa: Love, that.

00:37:29.290 --> 00:37:29.930 Steve Mayer: That's

00:37:30.690 --> 00:37:37.200 Steve Mayer: that's that's right. And they might everyone might say, Well, how do you measure progress?

00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:40.249 Steve Mayer: And that is a challenging question.

00:37:40.370 --> 00:37:52.130 Steve Mayer: And here's where the academic types get in the act, and not very helpfully, I have to say, because they insist on using the rules of social science

00:37:52.170 --> 00:38:18.040 Steve Mayer: and the rules of social science. Most of those rules aren't going to help them a whole lot. At least the rules that want to make evaluation be like scientific experimentation. Where you have control groups, one neighborhood gets this and another neighborhood doesn't. Or one person gets this treatment, another. One doesn't looks like laboratory-based science, and that's useful

00:38:18.070 --> 00:38:26.450 Steve Mayer: in the laboratory. But guess what? The world is. Not a laboratory where you can control all the factors. And so those rules of science

00:38:26.620 --> 00:38:29.599 Steve Mayer: are not gonna get anybody the answers

00:38:30.482 --> 00:38:37.499 Steve Mayer: that funders sort of wanna see? They wanna see that your food shelf is gonna end the

00:38:37.560 --> 00:38:41.259 Steve Mayer: hunger problem. They want proof that it's going to end

00:38:41.450 --> 00:38:46.600 Steve Mayer: some problem that your mission is set out to do. And so instead.

00:38:46.750 --> 00:38:47.850 Steve Mayer: I think

00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:51.630 Steve Mayer: you have to get much more basic and do it

00:38:52.560 --> 00:39:00.210 Steve Mayer: stay closer to what can actually be seen and observed and articulated by normal human

00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:06.300 Steve Mayer: people, who, let's say, go through that alcohol and drug program and can tell you how

00:39:06.680 --> 00:39:11.590 Steve Mayer: they were changed by the experience and what could be done different to

00:39:11.750 --> 00:39:14.430 Steve Mayer: help them change or be supported.

00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.690 Steve Mayer: Something like that gotta keep the evaluation

00:39:18.190 --> 00:39:27.909 Steve Mayer: on a more human level. And that's how we'll understand effectiveness. It'll it'll be different for every organization, and it'll be important for the organization to

00:39:28.200 --> 00:39:33.240 Steve Mayer: set its own rules. How do they want to be evaluated? Well, they they

00:39:33.510 --> 00:39:42.779 Steve Mayer: each organization thinks that what they do is valuable and important. Good. Let's help them.

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:52.210 Steve Mayer: Let's let them talk about what is valuable and important for them. So I like to go in an organization and say, Look at the end of the day.

00:39:52.530 --> 00:39:54.110 Steve Mayer: What tells you

00:39:54.140 --> 00:39:56.160 Steve Mayer: that you're doing good work.

00:39:57.530 --> 00:39:59.230 Steve Mayer: and people will tell you

00:39:59.350 --> 00:40:17.550 Steve Mayer: what progress in the language of their own organization and the language of their own culture and context. They'll tell you what doing good work looks like. They all have their challenges and obstacles. That's right. Let's hear about them. Let's hear about how to overcome them.

00:40:17.560 --> 00:40:21.179 Steve Mayer: Let's let's educate donors

00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:23.170 Steve Mayer: to pay attention

00:40:23.300 --> 00:40:25.319 Steve Mayer: to what's really

00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:31.759 Steve Mayer: helpful out there, so that nonprofits can mount a stronger effort

00:40:31.790 --> 00:40:37.819 Steve Mayer: and make more progress on their mission. That's what we need. We need more progress on missions

00:40:37.930 --> 00:40:41.679 Steve Mayer: and organizations have to get stronger and message out

00:40:42.190 --> 00:40:43.650 Steve Mayer: what they're doing.

00:40:43.900 --> 00:40:46.370 Steve Mayer: It's good to attract more money.

00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:50.739 Steve Mayer: The book's directed to individuals to understand nonprofits

00:40:50.820 --> 00:41:01.200 Steve Mayer: better. So they'll write a check. That's basically it. My idea is to get, not people to write a check to nonprofits. Once they learn more about what they do.

00:41:01.700 --> 00:41:12.379 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah. So I want to go into like the different parts of the book in a in a moment. Here, what I want to ask you, though, is, it's there's a big question, Steve. As you speak about that. Obviously, we keep talking about progress.

00:41:12.470 --> 00:41:42.129 Tommy DiMisa: You speak about each organization, though, might define progress differently in their own language by their own metrics, their kpis, different things like that. What I want to ask you, I think, is a question that many nonprofits. I won't use the word struggle. I'll say there's an area of opportunity around the relationship with grant makers, and I I ask you about certain languaging or storytelling, as it relates to those organizations

00:41:42.130 --> 00:41:49.590 Tommy DiMisa: how to best tell the story of. Because, again, if I'm a Grant maker, many Grant makers have a have a focus in a certain

00:41:49.590 --> 00:42:11.540 Tommy DiMisa: sector of the non-bore part of the nonprofit sector or certain causes and things like that, even that, though stories are going to be told differently from 2 organizations that may on the surface look similar. So the question I'm getting to with you is that dialogue between the grantmaker and the application maker, the grantee. Can you speak to that about telling stories.

00:42:12.410 --> 00:42:15.939 Steve Mayer: Oh, man, yeah, what a door you've opened.

00:42:18.030 --> 00:42:28.437 Steve Mayer: yeah. Dialogue dialogue. It'd be great. From what I understand. Dialogues have been kind of shut down in favor of you know, digital applications

00:42:29.618 --> 00:42:39.141 Steve Mayer: in which they count characters, you know, not even words but characters. And they have to do this and that and this and that, and this and that and

00:42:40.270 --> 00:42:45.390 Steve Mayer: dialogue, it'd be wonderful. And yeah, every organization's got a different story.

00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:55.139 Steve Mayer: Why not? Why not listen to those different stories? If you want to understand whether an organization is worth investing in, you got to do some listening

00:42:55.340 --> 00:43:06.240 Steve Mayer: things. Yeah. Got to do some listening. Ask good questions, you know. Ask questions like, how? What? How do your activities align with your mission?

00:43:06.630 --> 00:43:07.820 Steve Mayer: That's a good one.

00:43:07.940 --> 00:43:11.720 Steve Mayer: and how tell us about your

00:43:11.740 --> 00:43:18.269 Steve Mayer: horsepower, you know. Can you deliver what? What do you need from us to help you

00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:23.509 Steve Mayer: deliver more on the mission? Those are 2 very fundamental questions.

00:43:23.510 --> 00:43:24.210 Tommy DiMisa: So that's.

00:43:24.210 --> 00:43:27.610 Steve Mayer: Is alignment with mission and horse power aligned with mission.

00:43:27.610 --> 00:43:52.800 Tommy DiMisa: So just to say that. So if you are writing a grant right now, that's what you want to focus on. That's what the people who write these checks on the other side. We're not talking about individual donors now, really, although how does it relate to an individual donor? I want to know if I'm writing a check. I want to know, how does the horsepower and activities align to your mission? So that's the stories we need to be telling gang. It's stories about

00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:58.600 Tommy DiMisa: because we do this and that we achieve this mission. Right? That's what you're talking about.

00:43:59.040 --> 00:44:10.480 Steve Mayer: That's right. That approach replaces the really obnoxious theory of action. Thing that, I'm sure your audience can relate to, and instead makes it a more human

00:44:11.140 --> 00:44:14.470 Steve Mayer: dialogue. Focused on

00:44:14.560 --> 00:44:25.439 Steve Mayer: nation and making progress. People, donors, individuals and institutions want to see what you are doing constructively, productively to make progress.

00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:27.960 Steve Mayer: and if they see that

00:44:28.610 --> 00:44:31.380 Steve Mayer: they're more likely to cut a check than if they don't.

00:44:32.540 --> 00:44:55.610 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, I love this, Steve. We're gonna have to have you back on the show because we're coming up on our final segment in a minute. Here, we're gonna go to break. We come back. I want you to. I'm gonna share your website. And I'm gonna share the section of your website called Writings. But what I was really taking about when I was going taken back by this morning when I was going through your book, as you get to the bottom of the book the last page of the book I guess it would be called not the bottom of the book, but the but I read it online. So it was the bottom page.

00:44:55.610 --> 00:44:56.140 Steve Mayer: Way that.

00:44:56.140 --> 00:44:57.270 Tommy DiMisa: Guru. It became the.

00:44:57.270 --> 00:44:57.989 Steve Mayer: I know what you're.

00:44:57.990 --> 00:44:59.459 Tommy DiMisa: You know what I'm talking about.

00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:01.109 Steve Mayer: 89% done? Yeah.

00:45:01.411 --> 00:45:12.269 Tommy DiMisa: There was the links. There was the links that you could link to. That kicks me over to your website. So it's you call the book. An interactive book, too, right? Because there's it's like a

00:45:12.370 --> 00:45:29.078 Tommy DiMisa: it's a book. But to me it was perfect. Like you and I were talking in the Virtual Green Room. It's perfect because it was it was a lot of indents, and it like it was like an outline, and it was like thought provoking, and that I could vibe with versus like words and more words and more words. Right, you know.

00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:30.270 Steve Mayer: Bullet points.

00:45:30.270 --> 00:45:39.100 Tommy DiMisa: Bullet points. I love bullet points. Let's take a break. We'll come back when we'll be talking about bullet points and effective communities project where you come back, Steve Mayer, Tommy, philanthropy and focus.

00:47:43.060 --> 00:48:06.299 Tommy DiMisa: Fired up that I get to do the show. I'm grateful that I have so many people in my world and my community that are looking out and making strong connections for me. So I am always focused on. How do we make this sector stronger? How do we make nonprofits stronger? And I want to ask you that, Steve, you know, in a world where there's so much coming at us all the time, and like social media, is bananas, and you can't keep up with it all.

00:48:07.830 --> 00:48:25.490 Tommy DiMisa: how can nonprofits kind of find their way to strengthen themselves? Be more focused? If you will, whether whether you spell focus gang with a Ph in front of it, like I do, or with an F in front of it completely up to you. But how can they become stronger and and focus on that progress that you're talking about? Please, Steve.

00:48:27.590 --> 00:48:28.210 Steve Mayer: Well.

00:48:29.210 --> 00:48:34.460 Steve Mayer: they have to be nonprofits have to become, I think, more intentional

00:48:34.470 --> 00:48:41.080 Steve Mayer: on getting stronger. They have to devote some of their resources, budget and time

00:48:41.920 --> 00:48:46.219 Steve Mayer: to get stronger. It has to be a secondary goal.

00:48:46.580 --> 00:48:48.739 Steve Mayer: because if you don't get stronger you're

00:48:49.590 --> 00:48:53.310 Steve Mayer: essentially condemned to staying at the same level

00:48:53.530 --> 00:48:58.079 Steve Mayer: where you are, and most people would prefer to

00:48:58.830 --> 00:49:06.230 Steve Mayer: get to a higher level of effectiveness. And so when they write, grant requests, for example.

00:49:06.310 --> 00:49:29.200 Steve Mayer: they have to show how what they propose in the way of a project or operations will also strengthen their approach, that it'll strengthen their staffing because you've sequestered some money for training or strengthen the board, because it'll give you the opportunity to accrued a couple of new people who are strong in that area.

00:49:29.540 --> 00:49:31.500 Steve Mayer: or strengthen

00:49:31.881 --> 00:49:38.199 Steve Mayer: the networking approach to the organization. That's a big one networking. You raise it in the introduction.

00:49:38.250 --> 00:49:45.879 Steve Mayer: A key part of an organization's capacity and strength is its ability to relate to other

00:49:45.930 --> 00:50:01.860 Steve Mayer: Allied organizations. And it's not something that's incentivized by funders. In fact, one could say funders like to keep nonprofits apart and competitive for different reasons that are too big to go in on this show.

00:50:01.860 --> 00:50:03.719 Tommy DiMisa: No, we're gonna have to go into it on another show.

00:50:04.170 --> 00:50:04.520 Tommy DiMisa: Had no.

00:50:04.520 --> 00:50:05.119 Steve Mayer: Yeah, we will.

00:50:05.120 --> 00:50:12.379 Tommy DiMisa: Do. We gotta talk again on that or whatever. Even if it's just you and me talking, we gotta record it. And so because it's gonna be good. I.

00:50:12.830 --> 00:50:19.810 Steve Mayer: There's a lot to the traditional funding program model that's counterproductive. Yeah, I think to

00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:45.669 Steve Mayer: growing effectiveness. And so nonprofits have to push. They have to ask for growth, money, strength, money, capacity, building money. They have to ask for a portion of salaries that allow leaders to go to meetings with other organizations. I mean, business people go to meetings. They're paid to go to. Meetings are paid to go to meetings. Nonprofits

00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:47.970 Steve Mayer: have to take it out of their overtimers.

00:50:47.970 --> 00:50:55.449 Tommy DiMisa: Let's talk about that. Let I gotta jump in here because here's the thing I'm so tired of. Hat in hand we're a charity. Please support us. We I.

00:50:55.670 --> 00:50:55.890 Steve Mayer: Break.

00:50:55.890 --> 00:51:17.330 Tommy DiMisa: On one or less than 1% of our. You know, our budget and all. It's wrong, Steve. It's no, no other industry would would go to their trade associations and and be so jazzed about utilizing such little amount of money. No, you put money in research and development. You put money in professional development. You put money in protecting your staff, educating your staff, moving them forward right?

00:51:17.330 --> 00:51:28.429 Tommy DiMisa: And in in our industry, in our sector. And and I'm sure it's not 100% across the board. But in many cases the Grant makers want to see that you're basically, you know, you know, you're poverty.

00:51:28.430 --> 00:51:31.390 Tommy DiMisa: you know. That's great good job using, you know, just

00:51:31.660 --> 00:51:38.209 Tommy DiMisa: not taking care of people that's ridiculous, Steve. I'm just ranting. If you want to comment, please do. I don't want to put you on the spot, but that's it.

00:51:38.210 --> 00:51:54.750 Steve Mayer: Your rant is my rant. I mean, that's it's we share that anger. I have to say that we need more solutions to social issues out there. And it's the nonprofit sector that provides those solutions provides the ideas often just in

00:51:55.220 --> 00:52:05.009 Steve Mayer: germinal idea form. So they have to be tested. They have to. They have to be improved on. They have to. Everyone's looking for a silver bullet that'll fix

00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:11.219 Steve Mayer: hunger or homelessness. There's no silver bullet. There's there's a bunch of incremental steps

00:52:11.230 --> 00:52:18.870 Steve Mayer: and changes to policy changes to the way things are done, and we have to take those incremental steps and support them.

00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:22.649 Steve Mayer: Getting to the next level, and that requires

00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:26.960 Steve Mayer: R. And D time like you're saying and and networking time.

00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:27.690 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah.

00:52:27.690 --> 00:52:41.019 Steve Mayer: Relationship, building time grow, the network grow, the power grow, the force that pushes for change, that pushes positively for change, with increasingly promising solutions that can work.

00:52:41.610 --> 00:53:00.790 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah, I'm looking in your book right now, because there was this piece about the intentional nature of things. I want to see if I can grasp that. But you know, understanding social systems is something you talk about in the book. Maybe you know, we're going to run out of time with just me and Steve. I'd love to have you back on the show, but there's so much in this book, and it's like 52 pages, which for me

00:53:00.790 --> 00:53:24.440 Tommy DiMisa: with my attention. Span. It's beautiful, and with the bullet point, Steve, it's great. It's like when I was writing a paper in school, and I would indent, and I double space or triple space or 2 and a half space, and try. And you know, as long as the professor didn't count the words. I knew I was just how to get to 2 pages. I might be stretching things out or making columns now or and things in my world. That's how I did it. But that's how I want to read things is your is, you have tons and tons of data in here.

00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:29.339 Tommy DiMisa: However, the delivery I want to share a page. Can I share a page of the book on? Is that okay?

00:53:29.340 --> 00:53:30.680 Steve Mayer: Yes, yes, absolutely.

00:53:30.680 --> 00:53:33.797 Tommy DiMisa: The form out of the book. Let me do that right right quick. So

00:53:34.680 --> 00:53:35.709 Steve Mayer: It's in color.

00:53:35.710 --> 00:53:43.469 Tommy DiMisa: It is in color, it is. Yeah, yeah, we'll just share it. Guys. This is how the show goes. We just do things right here in real time. Let's get to the top of the book.

00:53:43.650 --> 00:53:54.610 Tommy DiMisa: the top of the book, Steve. Right like instead of the bottom of the book. But just you'll see the way. So this is some of the praise that the you know upfront. I love the quote that you say to your dad in here about this book.

00:53:54.610 --> 00:53:55.150 Steve Mayer: Yeah.

00:53:55.150 --> 00:53:56.450 Tommy DiMisa: And I share that. Yeah, so.

00:53:56.450 --> 00:53:57.260 Steve Mayer: Yeah.

00:53:57.260 --> 00:54:24.820 Tommy DiMisa: I dedicate this book to my father, Paul, a mayor, who once said to me, the last thing I want is for you to become one of those save the world types. Well, I guess he didn't get witches. Man, I'm going to scroll through. Here's the content table of content. So chapter one. Saving the World. The work of nonprofit organizations. Chapter 2. From Intentions to Progress. How Nonprofits Work. Chapter 3. Getting more intentional. Some Ideas around that

00:54:24.830 --> 00:54:53.039 Tommy DiMisa: progress counts is chapter 4, count progress. Progress counts count progress. We talked a bit about progress today and up your game. Next level effectiveness, which you know. Some of that's what we just talked about now, professional development things. But you'll see what I'm sharing if you're watching us on the stream, or any of these streaming. You see that the book is situated. It's I think it's digestible. However, at the same time it's chock full of information. You know what I mean, Steve. It's not one of the well you wrote it. So you know exactly what I'm talking about.

00:54:53.090 --> 00:54:58.299 Tommy DiMisa: I'll scroll through a little bit quickly, because I don't want everybody get your book for free but just here.

00:54:59.140 --> 00:55:17.079 Tommy DiMisa: just here there's an example, you know, of a page that's breaking down, considering the current state of the world. Anyone can ask reasonably who did this, and what's what are you going to do to make it better? Just the delivery of of your information I wanted. I'm not sharing anymore. Stopping the share gang, buy the book, buy the book, buy the book.

00:55:17.080 --> 00:55:17.930 Steve Mayer: By the bog.

00:55:17.930 --> 00:55:34.520 Tommy DiMisa: By the book. So I I we're gonna run out of time, or we've already run out of time, Steve. So I I how do people connect with you? And what are you looking for right now? Are you looking to get out and speak? Obviously you want to sell books because it makes an impact. But you know, are you looking to get out and speak on these topics right now?

00:55:35.220 --> 00:55:45.459 Steve Mayer: Yes, I'm I, I happily contribute to other people's podcasts like this, I'd happily speak live and in person.

00:55:45.470 --> 00:55:47.610 Steve Mayer: I, yeah,

00:55:48.770 --> 00:55:58.320 Steve Mayer: I'm a zoomer. And so, yeah, and by the book is, the book serves as a good prop for discussion, I think, around the table

00:55:59.330 --> 00:55:59.949 Tommy DiMisa: I wish you were.

00:56:00.296 --> 00:56:00.990 Steve Mayer: Gift too.

00:56:00.990 --> 00:56:01.440 Tommy DiMisa: It is a good.

00:56:01.715 --> 00:56:01.990 Steve Mayer: Good.

00:56:01.990 --> 00:56:10.728 Tommy DiMisa: I'm gonna start giving this book out to my friends in the nonprofit sector I I'd love oh, so Yolanda makes one other comment. Your dad must know my mom.

00:56:11.010 --> 00:56:11.460 Steve Mayer: I.

00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:33.979 Tommy DiMisa: Listen save the world. People save the world. No big deal, just making the world a better place. That's what we say here in the attic. That's what we're supposed to be doing. Give hugs, show love, show compassion. Check in with the people your organization is serving. Wow! What a novel idea, Steve Mayor, like I to me, that's just like that's what we should be fundamental, right?

00:56:34.870 --> 00:56:43.219 Steve Mayer: Fundamental and nonprofits message out everything you're doing that advances your mission, help your audience understand

00:56:43.410 --> 00:56:47.440 Steve Mayer: what you do. Don't just say the world needs us.

00:56:47.900 --> 00:56:51.839 Steve Mayer: Let the world understand what you're building.

00:56:51.960 --> 00:57:12.579 Steve Mayer: America is a nation of builders, the legend goes, and I think it's largely true. We like to support construction. We like to watch construction. We watch. We like to understand what's being built. And you guys, nonprofits are trying to build a better world. Tell us how you're doing it in detail.

00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:20.129 Steve Mayer: so that it'll attract support from individuals. And I think institutional funders as well.

00:57:20.130 --> 00:57:37.210 Tommy DiMisa: Yeah. Yeah. What a what great insight, Steve. I knew we'd run out of time before we ran out of things to say. I knew it because it happens every week. But I knew it. We had so much information today. Get the book really gang follow up with me if you have any questions, Tommy, Dyc on the

00:57:37.640 --> 00:57:45.070 Tommy DiMisa: on the Instagram, Tommy, DNYC. Email is Tommy D. At philanthropy and focus. Ph. OCUS.

00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:47.619 Tommy DiMisa: Dot com philanthropy.

00:57:47.620 --> 00:57:56.419 Steve Mayer: And you can reach me through my website. Effective not defective effective And there's a.

00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:56.930 Tommy DiMisa: Dot com.

00:57:57.284 --> 00:57:59.409 Steve Mayer: You can reach me from that.

00:57:59.720 --> 00:58:24.399 Tommy DiMisa: Absolutely absolutely. Listen. You know what? Steve, it's awesome to meet you. I'm fired up. I like. This is just the beginning. It's just the beginning, man, because I have like 19 ideas. Right now, that's my number. For today I have 19 ideas that I go. We should do this together. We could do this again. I could see us, you know, doing some consulting work together around. What you said is critically important, that capacity building around

00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:43.969 Tommy DiMisa: networking. I I talk about this. I've written some stuff on it. I haven't really shared it with the world. But around you know your inventory, your you know your social capital is your inventory. That's your network, right? That's and, as I started to say at the beginning of the show, and you know, didn't really plan on it. But everybody, you know, you can get to anybody right now.

00:58:43.970 --> 00:59:07.589 Tommy DiMisa: You can get to anybody right now through the relationships and connections, if you're adding value, not just because you want to sell them something. We're going to leave the show right there. Steve Mayer. Thanks again for being here. Make it a great day. Everybody will be back next Friday, where, on July 5, th where I'm interviewing my 2 partners in the philanthropy network of New York, Kim cottage, and Liz said, and that's going to be a lot of fun. Make it a great day, everybody make it a great weekend. See you next Friday.

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