Fridays 1:00pm - 2:00pm (EDT)
EPISODE SUMMARY:
We will talk about some expectations leaders place upon themselves, based in schemas handed down about leadership and how to tease out whether those messages fit today's work landscape. We will identify several unhelpful societal messages that hold leaders back from leading as successfully through uncertainty. We will consider ways leaders can extract themselves from falling trap to those unhelpful messages and what they can do instead to meet the needs of today's worforce, especially when leading through uncertainty.
Dr. Patti Weiter is a dynamic executive coach who aims to create and sustain work environments that maximize human potential. Patti integrates her training as a Clinical Health Psychologist into her consulting approach by expertly blending the biological, psychological, and social aspects of leader and organizational behavior to drive change and sustainable results. Her passion for positive leadership is grounded in well-being science. She is the President of the Kentucky Psychological Association, a Professional Affiliate for the University of Louisville Center for Positive Leadership, and Owner of Shine Psychology. Patti has three young daughters, and finds meaning in coaching other working moms navigate alignment in their career and home life.
In this episode, we will talk about some expectations leaders place upon themselves, based in schemas handed down about leadership, and will tease out whether those messages fit today's work landscape. For example, some of the unhelpful messages might be that a leader is in charge, controls the direction of the organization, and knows what to do next (like steering a large ship). In taking a more humble approach, a leader can recognize their strengths and fallibilities. They can uplift the team of experts around them to respond to the uncertain future by nurturing social connection, creativity, and a sense of belonging (which is more helpful in a whitewater rafting environment like we are in today). This can only happen if the leader first understands how societal messages have shaped their perspective and how to adjust for the needs of today's workforce.
www.linkedin/in/patti-weiter ; www.pattiweiter.com
#leadershipdevelopment #leadershipcoaching #leadershipconsulting #leadingthroughuncertainty #societalmessages #humbleleadership
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In this episode of The Hard Skills, Dr. Mira Brancu is joined by Dr. Patti Weiter as they discuss the expectations leaders put on themselves and the societal messages when leading during times of uncertainty. Dr. Weiter is an executive coach with a passion for positive leadership and helps to prove that leadership is grounded in well-being science. To kick off the conversation, Dr. Brancu talks about women in leadership positions navigating their careers. An example is how some women have been taught the idea of being perfect for others and in control. This perception can cause perfectionism and imposter syndrome, which can guide women leaders to doubt themselves. To be a leader in a workplace, there is going to be learning and relearning on many different subjects that we have been conditioned to accept over the course of time. Dr. Weiter shares her personal experience and advice about the following example that was just given.
After the first break, Dr. Brancu and Dr. Weiter pick up where they left off, which was discussing why people can’t address the disconnect between how we feel on the inside by faking it. Dr. Weiter explains why people won’t project their thoughts and feelings when they are in a leadership position. “Being a human and growing as a leader means that you will have uncertainty and that is uncomfortable,” says Dr. Weiter. “But that is normal.” It is important in the workplace to have a certain skill set that involves a little psychology, learning the system, and the messages that surround the workplace. Dr. Weiter shares why that skill set is so important in her eyes which is how the impact of each person's training, the complexity of it, and understanding the science of where they came from. Then, Dr. Weiter shares her top three best practices for leaders to catch themselves engaging in societal messages and how to counteract them. The tips include understanding yourself better, practicing soft skills every day, and once you have those in practice looking for clarity in a long-term vision.
We return to where the conversation left off, which were the three tips to engage in societal messages. Dr. Weiter goes further into detail with her second tip: practicing soft skills. Specifically, using soft skills in order to connect with other people. Applying and practicing soft skills can help people reach their potential, being more genuine, empowering ourselves and others, and having a healthy sense of ourselves will lead to creating more healthy workplaces. This also ties into the third tip of finding clarity and connecting with others. Dr. Brancu has her own company called Towerscope, and Dr. Weiter works with her and is starting a program called the Towerscope Leadership Academy, they take the time to discuss what the academy will bring, what it will teach, and what someone will be able to accomplish after going through the program.
To close the episode, Dr. Brancu conducts a Lightning Round and asks Dr. Weiter a question from a viewer who asked over the course of the live episode. The question that was asked included what types of advice we should avoid when we are leading through uncertainty. Something that Dr. Weiter wants the viewers to take away from this episode is to have compassion for yourself whenever you are in an uncertain space. We don't have to have all the answers right away, there is always some way to navigate around something until you are able to get an answer.
00:00:29.570 --> 00:00:54.869 Mira Brancu: Welcome. Welcome to the hard skills show with me, Dr. Mirabu. I work with leaders in healthcare research stem and other technical fields who recognize that developing yourself and your teams and creating a healthy, inclusive workplace environment will help you retain the best people doing the highest level work, in other words, developing the hard skills needed to make a greater impact.
00:00:55.100 --> 00:01:08.940 Mira Brancu: Now, if you value evidence-based solutions and are committed to consistent practice, then this is a podcast and show for you in this season. We're exploring that first stage in my strategic leadership pathway model facing uncertainty.
00:01:09.150 --> 00:01:32.510 Mira Brancu: And today we are talking with Doctor Patty wider about how to counteract unhelpful societal messages about leading with uncertainty. I don't want you watching or listening to this passively. I want you to be ready to reflect deeply, take notes like me, and identify at least one small step to further develop your hard skills muscle.
00:01:32.550 --> 00:01:36.970 Mira Brancu: So let me introduce to you Dr. Pat. By the way.
00:01:37.030 --> 00:01:53.039 Mira Brancu: as I'm introducing you, Patty, I've been misspelling Miss pronouncing your last name the entire time. I keep wanting to say weeder, and it's wider, and I thank you for so and anyway.
00:01:53.170 --> 00:02:00.649 Mira Brancu: Dr. Patty Wider is a dynamic executive coach who aims to create and sustain work environments that maximize human potential.
00:02:00.810 --> 00:02:17.320 Mira Brancu: Her energy is truly infection infectious. I like being around her. As a result, Patty has integrated the bio psychosocial aspects of her training as a clinical health psychologist into how she helps leaders drive, change, and create sustainable results.
00:02:17.620 --> 00:02:25.369 Mira Brancu: She also applies a positive psychology and well-being science lens which matches her personality. Really? Well, I think
00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:37.960 Mira Brancu: she's the president of the Kentucky Psychological Association, Professional Affiliate for the University of Louisville Center for positive leadership and owner of shine psychology.
00:02:38.230 --> 00:02:43.520 Patty has 3 young daughters and finds meaning and coaching other working moms.
00:02:43.540 --> 00:02:47.040 Mira Brancu: navigating alignment in their career and home life.
00:02:47.260 --> 00:02:59.840 Mira Brancu: Now, Patty and I know each other in a few different ways. She works at the Department of Veterans affairs. So do I, though we've never worked directly together in the same facility or the same department.
00:03:00.040 --> 00:03:03.669 Mira Brancu: She and I are both members of the Society of Consulting Psychologists.
00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:17.399 Mira Brancu: and after seeing her work and her participation in my Millennials Guidebook Club. I invited her to serve on the Advisory Board of my new Towerscope Leadership Academy Membership learning community which we are launching
00:03:17.620 --> 00:03:21.960 Mira Brancu: right now and opening up applications in a few weeks. So
00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:49.009 Mira Brancu: with that, said, Welcome, Patty, glad to have you on the show. Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be with you, and I appreciate such a lovely introduction. Thank you absolutely. And I was just like reflecting also that you own this business shine psychology, which, of course, just completely reflects exactly what I mentioned. That infectious personality, the positive psychology empowering others. So I'm just like
00:03:49.030 --> 00:04:04.900 Patti Weiter: loving even the fact that your own name of your company just reflects
00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:11.379 Patti Weiter: II see that a lot from you as well, and I think it's important, so that we have that
00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:29.840 Patti Weiter: vision, and we can remain true. We are. And you know, when I was coming up with that name it was really, you know what what kind of difference do I? Wanna make? What do I bring? That's unique and different to, you know? Others that I can work with? And yeah, I think
00:04:29.840 --> 00:04:42.970 Patti Weiter: a name. And some of the things that we do in the ways that we connect to people can tell them a lot before we've even met so absolutely, absolutely so. Today.
00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:47.170 Mira Brancu: we're talking about societal messages that are unhelpful. And
00:04:47.260 --> 00:05:07.340 Mira Brancu: I always like to start with like a more personal stories, and when it comes to navigating uncertainty and unhelpful societal messages, I often think a lot about what that means for women navigating their leadership careers, because this is kind of one of one of the areas that I lean into very heavily that I focus on is supporting women and leadership.
00:05:07.340 --> 00:05:18.089 Mira Brancu: And I think about my own journey right? And those unspoken, unchallenged beliefs about uncertainty in particular. So here's some examples.
00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:30.239 Mira Brancu: When I'm especially focused on our group coaching programs. There's a lot of messages that girls and women receive over a lifetime about being and appearing perfect
00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:31.850 Patti Weiter: for others
00:05:31.890 --> 00:05:35.980 Mira Brancu: and being in control in control of your looks.
00:05:36.010 --> 00:05:38.979 Mira Brancu: control your body, control what you say.
00:05:39.190 --> 00:05:44.269 Mira Brancu: and if you believe those messages which most of us do, I certainly did
00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:47.619 Mira Brancu: right. Then perfectionism sets in
00:05:47.960 --> 00:05:50.210 Mira Brancu: low confidence sets in
00:05:50.240 --> 00:06:14.149 Mira Brancu: imposter syndrome sets in, and it begins to cause you to have very specific perceptions about yourself, but also act in really specific ways when it comes to leaning into uncertainty. And one of those outcomes is, we don't then speak up as much. We don't take as many risks. We don't try things that can lead to failure
00:06:14.310 --> 00:06:16.520 Mira Brancu: as often, and therefore
00:06:16.570 --> 00:06:22.860 Mira Brancu: all of that means that we're trying to minimize the constant judgment
00:06:22.890 --> 00:06:26.239 Mira Brancu: right? But we're also shying away from uncertainty.
00:06:26.630 --> 00:06:27.640 Patti Weiter: And
00:06:27.790 --> 00:06:35.450 Mira Brancu: the funny thing is that once, then, you want to move on up in your career and be
00:06:35.520 --> 00:06:38.729 Mira Brancu: seriously considered for leadership roles.
00:06:38.850 --> 00:06:45.220 Mira Brancu: Then then women get the message. You need to be more certain in your decision making.
00:06:45.350 --> 00:06:49.030 Patti Weiter: You need to stop over deliberating about your decisions.
00:06:49.490 --> 00:06:53.469 Mira Brancu: you need to take more risks. If you're going to be seen as a leader
00:06:53.860 --> 00:07:01.550 Patti Weiter: so if you wanna be in the boys, club, then you need to act like we've been telling them that their whole life. And
00:07:01.630 --> 00:07:14.950 Mira Brancu: and you're really in a double bind, because, no matter what you do, you're probably gonna get it wrong? Right? So there is some unlearning and relearning. Right? Yeah, so like, what messages
00:07:14.980 --> 00:07:16.500 Mira Brancu: have you heard
00:07:16.550 --> 00:07:26.699 Mira Brancu: related to this? Or what messages? One. What unhelpful societal messages are you like most hearing from the leaders that you worked with, that they struggle with?
00:07:26.890 --> 00:07:28.570 Patti Weiter: Yeah, I think
00:07:29.210 --> 00:07:39.550 Patti Weiter: you know one of the one of the messages is being confident and decisive. So a leader it it's sort of like, what is a leader? Well, a leader is this. This is how you embody
00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:49.790 Patti Weiter: being a leader. You are the one who knows what to do and is not wavering.
00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:57.970 Patti Weiter: and and so that that identity that you must portray of being confident of being
00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:03.230 Patti Weiter: You know. All in on a decision is.
00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:04.510 Patti Weiter: I think.
00:08:05.510 --> 00:08:08.020 Patti Weiter: probably a message that
00:08:08.090 --> 00:08:13.879 Patti Weiter: people want to believe what a leader is because that means
00:08:14.060 --> 00:08:25.959 Patti Weiter: that we can follow that leader, and they will not get us into any trouble. We can trust them. But I don't know that you know that that is
00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:36.630 Patti Weiter: as is how to build trust. I think we also tell leaders a lot. You know you. You have to be strong. You have to appear somewhat invincible.
00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:45.910 Patti Weiter: you know you're not fallible or vulnerable, or going to be shaken. And I think we
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:47.350 Patti Weiter: also
00:08:47.890 --> 00:09:00.809 Patti Weiter: look towards leaders to be results driven, which you know again. Not necessarily that. Then, however, if there's not a nuance to that, this idea is that a leader will
00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:10.899 Patti Weiter: come in, get to work. We're gonna see this, you know, impact and and and and a quick result. And so
00:09:12.460 --> 00:09:30.730 Mira Brancu: II hear leaders who will maybe not say those things, but that's kind of what I'm hearing behind what they're saying. This is what I'm supposed to be, but I don't feel that way. So what's interesting is that like, yes, there's a Co. There's first the cognitive dissonance right between how you fee, actually feel
00:09:30.800 --> 00:09:35.970 Mira Brancu: and what you're trying to project and that
00:09:36.110 --> 00:09:49.619 Mira Brancu: people do actually need that of you. So how how do you reconcile so like if we do technically want to close the gap between how we feel and how we project. And actually, we do wanna
00:09:49.850 --> 00:10:07.060 Mira Brancu: feel as confident as we say we are to be. You know, we do actually want to get results done as much as we say, we're you know. What? Why is? Why is it unhelpful like? What? What is the harm? What is the problem with sort of faking it till you make it, I guess.
00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:19.529 Patti Weiter: Yeah, yeah, I think I think when we are faking it, that's really not an authentic way to build our confidence. We don't believe it. We don't believe that we are
00:10:20.350 --> 00:10:25.260 Patti Weiter: capable inherently of leading people. We have to make ourselves something else.
00:10:25.400 --> 00:10:43.700 Mira Brancu: Absolutely. Yeah. Let's keep talking about this. We are nearing our add break. So we're gonna we're gonna come back to this faking it. So you make it thing but until then let's take an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabanku and our guest, Dr. Patty Wider.
00:10:43.760 --> 00:11:00.749 Mira Brancu: The hard skills airs live every Friday at one Pm. Eastern time. If you would like to join us online right now and ask us questions. You are welcome to do that. We will answer it in real time. Find us on Linkedin or youtube@talkradio.nyc, and we'll be back with our guests in just a moment.
00:13:12.010 --> 00:13:24.629 Mira Brancu: Welcome, welcome back! I've got Dr. Patty Wieder here, and we're talking about facing uncertainty, especially when you're working through unhelpful societal messages. Now, before we get back to this.
00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:32.590 Mira Brancu: I wanted to share something with you. and that is, if you're watching. Live.
00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:50.829 Mira Brancu: Here is Patty's website, shine psychology. And I just wanted to sort of share more information about her. She's an organizational consultant, and she's gonna share a little bit about that work with us, and where we left off
00:13:51.140 --> 00:13:57.630 Mira Brancu: is we were talking about why. we can't just address
00:13:57.880 --> 00:14:11.190 Mira Brancu: this disconnect between how we feel on the inside with how we wanna project as leaders by just faking it? Right? So what? What is? What is the problem with just projecting what people want of us?
00:14:12.290 --> 00:14:38.460 Patti Weiter: Well, that would be. You know the way of leadership in in a world where we have AI as leaders, right? Like, we could just embody that. Exactly. This is the algorithm be this go. But the problem is that we're humans. And so I think that is something that we bring as psychologists when we are consulting when we are coaching that we understand that there's a lot of complexity to being human.
00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:47.480 Patti Weiter: And then you get a team of people together and organization of people together. And there's a lot of complexity in how you navigate relationships.
00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:51.949 Patti Weiter: and to be able to embody this
00:14:52.370 --> 00:15:00.189 Patti Weiter: confident, decisive, strong, invincible, quick result, machine
00:15:00.420 --> 00:15:08.120 Patti Weiter: without understanding nuance without understanding emotion, without understanding that
00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:16.670 Patti Weiter: results happen at the speed of relationships that that get you there. Then we are really
00:15:16.900 --> 00:15:18.230 Patti Weiter: sort of
00:15:18.550 --> 00:15:26.650 Patti Weiter: spinning our wheels and in the process, probably beating ourselves up because we're not getting it right, and
00:15:26.790 --> 00:15:44.869 Patti Weiter: I have to fake it. Why should I have to fake it. You know it. Just it. It can lead to people being very critical of themselves rather than having compassion that this is a challenge, and that they're learning, and and that's part of the process.
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:52.099 Patti Weiter: you will have uncertainty and and uncertainty is uncomfortable, but that's normal.
00:15:53.730 --> 00:16:01.840 Patti Weiter: So this sounds very psychological to me. I don't know, Patty, you know. I think
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:06.969 Patti Weiter: I think that one of the aspects of
00:16:07.110 --> 00:16:17.719 Patti Weiter: The reasons I'm drawn to impacting organizations is because I like to apply psychology. I like to take what I know about
00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:37.970 Patti Weiter: the brain, the body, motion, behavior, motivation, all of those things, those principles of psychology that help us to understand being a human and then apply them in spaces where we can scale the impact where we can help people to achieve their mission whatever that is for their organization
00:16:37.970 --> 00:16:51.700 Patti Weiter: and hopefully uplift the well being of all the people that are working within that space, because work is such a huge part of our lives. Yeah, so applying psychology, I think it's important. Yeah, yeah, so so
00:16:52.240 --> 00:17:06.879 Mira Brancu: what what makes a consulting psychologist a consulting psychologist, I think some people might be curious about like what does that mean in the space of helping organizations, instead of what most people think about? Which is.
00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:15.610 Mira Brancu: first of all, there's like 50 kinds of psychologists out there. But almost everybody thinks of clinical psychologists as psychologists, right? The people who provide the health care.
00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:24.679 Mira Brancu: And so some people might be like concerned if we're talking about societal messages and on helpful messages. And if we're talking about
00:17:24.690 --> 00:17:36.700 Mira Brancu: you know how it affects us as humans. And and within, how we're struggling with this disconnect and how we need to be authentic and transparent. All of this stuff sounds like
00:17:36.810 --> 00:17:55.010 Mira Brancu: wishy washy, you know. Yeah, like, just psycho babble stuff. But why is it important now? More than ever, when we're leading through uncertain times to be able to
00:17:55.130 --> 00:17:57.880 Mira Brancu: understand how
00:17:57.900 --> 00:17:59.820 Mira Brancu: the system around us
00:18:00.340 --> 00:18:04.280 Mira Brancu: and the messages we receive about how we show up.
00:18:04.330 --> 00:18:12.919 Mira Brancu: Why is this so important now? More than ever to have this skill set to be able to invite a consulting psychologist as opposed to like
00:18:13.230 --> 00:18:17.399 Mira Brancu: any differently trained executive coach or business consultant, to do these kinds of things.
00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.210 I think because we are facing
00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:23.430 Patti Weiter: many complex
00:18:24.390 --> 00:18:26.910 Patti Weiter: and dynamic
00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:35.339 Patti Weiter: changes that are going to be coming our way. We know that whether it be technology
00:18:35.350 --> 00:18:50.240 Patti Weiter: or the makeup of our workforce and the values that they hold, or unexpected, unforeseen, unprecedented things that happen as they have in the last few years.
00:18:50.350 --> 00:18:59.439 Patti Weiter: whatever that might be, you know, changes in society changes with healthcare. Obviously, we've had whatever those things that are happening.
00:18:59.620 --> 00:19:24.840 Patti Weiter: that may come our way. We we have to be agile. And while I do think there is space for different types of consultants depending on what your need is, I think psychologists are going to be able to manage complexity. They'll be able to manage things like conflict crisis building, resilience, uplifting, well being
00:19:24.950 --> 00:19:33.560 Patti Weiter: and also understanding science and understanding evidence. So we we bring a combination of
00:19:33.980 --> 00:19:40.420 Patti Weiter: skills and education and continue training that will
00:19:40.620 --> 00:19:54.540 Patti Weiter: allow for complexity and make room for complexity and really understanding root causes rather than addressing something that you know might might have some impact, but might not be the impact we need.
00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:59.400 Patti Weiter: So so I really think we bring a unique.
00:19:59.710 --> 00:20:03.400 Patti Weiter: you know, application of understanding people.
00:20:03.530 --> 00:20:10.419 Patti Weiter: And that that's critical. Yeah. So let's let's get into application for a second
00:20:10.770 --> 00:20:16.259 Mira Brancu: if I'm a leader coming to you right? And I'm
00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:35.800 Mira Brancu: sort of struggling with this like I have to be results driven hard, charging aggressive or assertive. I'm being told I need to speak up. I need to take more risks, and all of these things feel
00:20:36.710 --> 00:21:03.249 Mira Brancu: like not quite right for me like. In fact, I'm starting to wonder whether I should be seeking a leadership role, whether it's even a good fit. And I'm coming to you as a leader for that right? Do you have any frameworks or best practices? Top 3 best practices for how leaders can catch themselves engaging in these societal messages that are unhelpful to them, and how how they can counteract this stuff.
00:21:03.790 --> 00:21:18.260 Patti Weiter: Yes, I would say that a more intentional way of approaching some of these messages that we are hearing could be first to have a really
00:21:19.490 --> 00:21:21.370 Patti Weiter: realistic
00:21:21.790 --> 00:21:41.430 Patti Weiter: perspective about what are your individual strengths, and also what are the things that are challenging for you as an individual. And so that is, you know, the basis of humility being humble. Is that not that you don't have confidence, but also. Not that you know everything. And so how do we really get a clear picture
00:21:41.610 --> 00:22:00.199 Patti Weiter: to start from, of understanding ourselves? And I think, as psychologists, you know we are experts and assessments. We are able to help people really understand what that might mean and how to use assessments. And then, you know, recommendations based on that. So I think you know, it starts with knowing yourself.
00:22:00.260 --> 00:22:06.140 Patti Weiter: illuminating your hidden potentials that you might not recognize, but also the things that might get you into trouble.
00:22:06.530 --> 00:22:16.959 Patti Weiter: being able to practice the soft skills. You know that that you hear people say, which really are those hard skills. But being able to practice everyday
00:22:17.090 --> 00:22:33.229 Patti Weiter: the rituals where you can connect to other humans in a way that is effective. How do we really create high quality connections in a minute or less it doesn't have to be this.
00:22:33.790 --> 00:22:44.299 Patti Weiter: And then, I think, being able to take that everyday ritualistic practicing of, you know, being a human, connecting to what your strengths are connecting to when you need to defer to others.
00:22:44.350 --> 00:22:49.309 Patti Weiter: Then you're coming from a really clear space where, when you look
00:22:49.510 --> 00:22:54.720 Patti Weiter: toward long term, resilience and clarity. In a long term vision
00:22:54.810 --> 00:22:58.479 Patti Weiter: you are going to be able to have a more
00:22:59.110 --> 00:23:07.440 Patti Weiter: strategic and grounded approach rather than feeling like, you're being batted around by the next wave that hits you every time.
00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:10.709 Patti Weiter: because you're starting from a space that is
00:23:11.870 --> 00:23:23.539 Mira Brancu: understanding yourself, yeah, let's let's dig into this even more. I'm gonna start with the first one, let's say now.
00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:33.389 Mira Brancu: I understand myself. I've done some assessments with you right. And now I have like this picture of what I bring
00:23:33.610 --> 00:23:38.580 Mira Brancu: to the table. And I say.
00:23:39.050 --> 00:23:53.090 Mira Brancu: this doesn't. This doesn't sound like a leader. This doesn't look like a leader. I'm I'm not sure this is a good fit. I mean, II keep getting told I should be doing this this and this, which is the opposite of who I am as a person. What do you do with that?
00:23:53.210 --> 00:23:55.049 Patti Weiter: Well, you know, I think
00:23:56.080 --> 00:24:02.859 Patti Weiter: I will say I hear that from many women. That they will run into those
00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:15.539 Patti Weiter: systemic messages that you need to change this or that. Don't show your emotion or, yeah. don't project any bit of vulnerability or nurturing
00:24:15.830 --> 00:24:27.149 Patti Weiter: and I think that it's important to recognize that sometimes the problem is not with you, and that you need to change yourself that sometimes that might be an unhelpful systemic message you're hearing.
00:24:27.250 --> 00:24:30.770 Patti Weiter: but that that doesn't necessarily mean that
00:24:30.990 --> 00:24:39.130 Patti Weiter: wherever you're hearing, the message from is true and factual that you have to be that to be a leader.
00:24:39.140 --> 00:25:08.230 Patti Weiter: And I think the more we see different examples of what leadership looks like, we can see that embodied in different ways. II think that that's really important, because it's it's not always the person that's hearing that that is the problem that needs to change right? And then sometimes we don't realize what different people can bring to leadership that actually could be useful. A counter balance, a compliment something that people actually need more of. But
00:25:08.590 --> 00:25:13.740 Mira Brancu: we didn't realize, you know, it's reminding me of
00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:16.870 Mira Brancu: an experience I had where
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:22.010 Mira Brancu: I had an advisor who was like Mira, you you need to be a lot more focused.
00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:28.610 Mira Brancu: In order to be successful, you need to just do you know one thing, and I said, What's what's the problem with being a generalist?
00:25:28.620 --> 00:25:39.419 Mira Brancu: And he said, You you can't be a generalist in all things, and blah blah blah. And I said, II think there's actual strengths to this. And what I realized over time in my own leadership career is that leaders
00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:42.370 Mira Brancu: aren't necessarily
00:25:42.450 --> 00:26:07.429 Mira Brancu: continuing to focus on their subject matter expertise. They become a generalist in understanding how things work together and where to go for different things, and that became a strength as I rise in in leadership. Roles wasn't a strength at first, and so that's something to be thinking about over time as well. Let's keep talking about this. We do have an ad break. You're listening to the hard skills with me, Dr. Mirabranku. I'm
00:26:07.430 --> 00:26:19.109 Mira Brancu: here with our guest, Dr. Patty Weeter. We're gonna be back in just a moment. If you do have some questions for us, leave them online and we will pull them and respond to them in real time, and we will be back in just a moment.
00:28:20.140 --> 00:28:40.180 Mira Brancu: Welcome! Welcome back with Dr. Patty wider. We are here talking about unhelpful societal messages that get in the way of leading through uncertainty and she shared with us. Patty shared with us 3 different
00:28:40.190 --> 00:28:47.770 Mira Brancu: ways that you can start working through unhelpful societal messages. One was understanding yourself better.
00:28:48.210 --> 00:28:58.889 Mira Brancu: so that you know what you're bringing to the table and know you, you're able to be much more strategic about how you wanna use those strengths or minimize the potential risk factors
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:02.169 Mira Brancu: or pitfalls. The other is practice soft skills.
00:29:02.290 --> 00:29:12.900 Mira Brancu: And finally, connecting with others. Right? And we were just sort of talking about like with the benefits of understanding yourself. Is
00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:17.399 Mira Brancu: really understanding what you're bringing to the table, and then
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:26.010 Mira Brancu: recognizing that sometimes people need something different of their leaders than what they're getting or need a complement
00:29:26.100 --> 00:29:31.449 Mira Brancu: of different types of styles. I often think about this also in the context of
00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:39.310 Mira Brancu: team leadership right now. More than ever, we aren't leaning into the single hero model
00:29:39.520 --> 00:30:00.090 Mira Brancu: of leadership. We're leaning into team leadership. And when you think about team leadership. You no longer have to be all thanks to all people, and you don't have to be the one savior of all the people. Right like you can bring different things to come together as a leadership team. And that's one of the benefits that I think about when I think about understanding yourself and what you're bringing?
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:13.880 Mira Brancu: Are there other benefits to combating, counteracting these societal messages that are unhelpful through the mechanisms that you mentioned through? Practicing the soft skills and connecting with others.
00:30:14.560 --> 00:30:17.959 Patti Weiter: Yeah, I think you know, when we are
00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:32.759 Patti Weiter: practicing connection every day rituals that allow us to know the people around us, we're better able to see their strengths that then we can defer to when we need to, because maybe they've got something they're bringing that we
00:30:33.060 --> 00:30:38.770 Patti Weiter: realize would be better suited for whatever we're tackling. We also are
00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:42.870 Patti Weiter: continually learning, and
00:30:43.280 --> 00:30:49.859 Patti Weiter: in the process of being able to face some unknown.
00:30:51.400 --> 00:31:02.570 Patti Weiter: We we can do it with a foundation of relationships that have a trusting and sort of united cohesive way of problem solving.
00:31:02.690 --> 00:31:18.309 Patti Weiter: And and so then we don't get stuck as much in the aspects of our personality and others that might get in our way or derail us because we're over using it. We're not taking it. We're being ourselves already. So when we're getting into those
00:31:18.340 --> 00:31:40.329 Patti Weiter: those spaces where we do have to problem solve, we can really readily see. What are we bringing from the strengths of all the people here. And how can we best utilize those people strengths, so that in the tasks of their work they really feel empowered that they're doing something meaningful that they can deliver on
00:31:40.370 --> 00:31:48.000 Patti Weiter: and that you also, as you know, in your role, feel the same way. So you know that's done going to
00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:58.759 Patti Weiter: clarify the sense of purpose, clarify the way that you are reaching your potential which all of these things are fundamentals of well being
00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:13.709 Patti Weiter: when I feel like I can use my strength for something that is the greater good. And while I'm at it I'm connecting to other people. All of that is helping me to have a a sense of
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:18.000 Patti Weiter: flourishing or thriving and so
00:32:18.690 --> 00:32:32.870 Patti Weiter: you know that that builds the capacity for us to take on greater challenges and momentum that we can. you know, use this great connection that we have with other people. Or
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:35.360 Patti Weiter: you know, the next thing that we're facing.
00:32:35.560 --> 00:32:41.140 Patti Weiter: So yeah, it's it's it's really leveraging human potential. Yeah.
00:32:41.230 --> 00:32:44.030 Mira Brancu: So wait. Are you saying that
00:32:44.090 --> 00:32:49.460 Mira Brancu: reaching our potential being authentic and genuine
00:32:49.660 --> 00:32:52.600 Mira Brancu: empowering ourselves and other people.
00:32:52.690 --> 00:32:59.590 Mira Brancu: having a healthy sense of ourselves and other people might actually create more well-being and healthy workplaces.
00:32:59.610 --> 00:33:20.750 Patti Weiter: I mean, you know, it's almost like this is important for our society. That we, you know, have people that are healthy and happy at work, and we're able to, you know, work together for good things in the world. I mean, that is, one of the reasons. Last year we had a a whole, you know, design from the Surgeon General, of how do we uplift? Well, being at work?
00:33:21.110 --> 00:33:43.410 Patti Weiter: Why? Why do we care to do that? Because people are at work for many hours of the day, and if people are well at work, they're more likely to be uplifted, and, you know, impact their family, their community society. So again, this is a scalable sort of impact that you can have when you are able to help people flourish in the workplace.
00:33:43.540 --> 00:33:56.399 Mira Brancu: So this is a great segue speaking of scaling our impact and the ripple effect, you and I have been working on this Towerscope Leadership Academy.
00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:05.410 Mira Brancu: and you're on the advisory board. Right? It's an advisory of of women, high achieving
00:34:05.860 --> 00:34:11.520 Mira Brancu: amazing women. Developed for women.
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:22.470 Mira Brancu: And it's women-centric. So it is gender inclusive. But we focus on the experiences, lived experiences of women. and anyone is is welcome to join
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:29.730 Mira Brancu: And we've been thinking a lot about like, how do we use this platform in order to
00:34:29.739 --> 00:34:48.120 Mira Brancu: have a more affordable accessible mechanism for people to come together around these kinds of things right around, making a difference, creating healthier workplaces, positive, inclusive workplaces and then developing their own leadership in this way, where you're able to sort of separate out
00:34:48.219 --> 00:34:59.560 Mira Brancu: what are the unhelpful societal messages from who I really am, and what I can bring to the world that is different. That is
00:34:59.620 --> 00:35:07.919 Mira Brancu: worthwhile valued. That makes a difference. and so let's talk about that for a moment. Right?
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:17.330 Mira Brancu: I'm actually, gonna since since we're live, I'm gonna use the time to share my screen here while we're doing this.
00:35:18.540 --> 00:35:31.619 Mira Brancu: and those of you who are gonna watch the recording are able to see this as well. I'm showing the tirescope Leadership Academy landing page here. Tell us a little bit about
00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:35.650 Mira Brancu: this. What are people going to be?
00:35:36.040 --> 00:35:37.959 Mira Brancu: Seeing
00:35:38.020 --> 00:35:58.249 Mira Brancu: when they're looking at this and and really like, how does that connect to what we're talking about today? This this wellbeing aspect? Creating healthy workplaces, societal messages navigating those? Tell us a little bit more about like. Why, you specifically decided to join this Advisory Board. What you hope
00:35:58.330 --> 00:36:00.199 Mira Brancu: we can accomplish through this?
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.030 Patti Weiter: Well, I think you know the
00:36:04.050 --> 00:36:21.809 Patti Weiter: the the path that I took to get involved with the Advisory Board was pretty organic, and it was, you know, connection to you. But then, being able to connect to these other women who you have surrounded yourself with, with these people who, like you said, are driven, are seeking
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:35.470 Patti Weiter: success. But also this feeling of being able to contribute what they bring, whatever their expertise is. But you know, maybe running into barriers. And so I think
00:36:35.870 --> 00:36:45.569 Patti Weiter: I was drawn to this because it was a really authentic conversation, and I was able to be vulnerable myself because there were other people who were sharing
00:36:45.700 --> 00:36:58.660 Patti Weiter: those situations that maybe they've been in where they were unsure. Do I believe this message? Is this true? What I should be? You know, hearing about how to navigate the future of my career.
00:36:58.790 --> 00:37:04.489 Patti Weiter: And I really think that there's just value in creating a space
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:05.690 Patti Weiter: where
00:37:06.030 --> 00:37:15.099 Patti Weiter: we are not only, you know, validating that we're not the only one having the experience. But we're also figuring out, what do we do about it?
00:37:15.240 --> 00:37:16.510 Patti Weiter: How do we?
00:37:17.510 --> 00:37:25.050 Patti Weiter: You know navigate systems? How do we navigate
00:37:25.110 --> 00:37:28.849 Patti Weiter: address the challenges ahead of us in a way
00:37:29.270 --> 00:37:30.440 Patti Weiter: that
00:37:30.460 --> 00:37:38.789 Patti Weiter: can stay focused on the impact we want to make and and and getting the support and resources. We need
00:37:38.900 --> 00:37:48.219 Patti Weiter: to achieve that impact. So II just really felt drawn to the authentic connection and focus on
00:37:48.490 --> 00:37:56.489 Patti Weiter: results that we can achieve based, you know, in in the changes we can make. So it felt
00:37:58.040 --> 00:38:01.279 Patti Weiter: empowering, I think, and that that
00:38:01.290 --> 00:38:11.130 Patti Weiter: is something I wanted other people to experience. So. That's what drew me in. Yeah, II mean, I like what you said about this balance between
00:38:11.180 --> 00:38:23.540 Mira Brancu: a space where you can feel welcomed, authentic. Be yourself engaging. These interesting conversations get support. But it's also results. Driven right? Like we're just. We're not just
00:38:23.750 --> 00:38:34.209 Mira Brancu: talking about how we feel just because some of us 2 of us are psychologists. That's not really like the main focus. The main focus is to
00:38:34.230 --> 00:38:38.039 Mira Brancu: help elevate each member
00:38:38.120 --> 00:38:55.490 Mira Brancu: to reach their leadership. Goals address the things that are sort of impacting, getting in the way and but but have the community to do so, and I'm sort of curious like, why is it so hard to find these communities? I mean?
00:38:55.500 --> 00:39:02.249 Mira Brancu: when you're describing it? What what comes up for me is
00:39:02.460 --> 00:39:06.449 Mira Brancu: Shouldn't we all be able to talk about these things in any given
00:39:07.060 --> 00:39:20.289 Patti Weiter: situation or environment at work? And why not? Yeah. I mean, I think, that we wish that we could but sometimes we might be within organizations that have a culture that doesn't support vulnerability.
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:25.600 Patti Weiter: Maybe there's a lot of competitiveness. Maybe there is
00:39:25.900 --> 00:39:37.160 Patti Weiter: a challenge where we feel there could be retribution if we were to share a negative experience or or talk candidly about what.
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:46.539 Patti Weiter: what we are seeing around us like. Am I the only one seeing this here? But I almost can't say that out loud, because what if that impacts?
00:39:46.700 --> 00:40:00.849 Patti Weiter: You know my, my everyday but also my potential and and the opportunities ahead. So I think, yeah, it'd be great if these conversations were something people felt comfortable to have every day. But
00:40:00.950 --> 00:40:08.010 Mira Brancu: that isn't always the culture that they find themselves within. Yeah, absolutely. So
00:40:08.410 --> 00:40:20.620 Mira Brancu: I just got a message that Catherine Hall, she and I, recently connected on on Linkedin, actually says good morning from the high desert. So Hi, Katherine, nice to see you nice to have you join us.
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:25.519 Mira Brancu: She is, a public system as work with some of the top book.
00:40:25.640 --> 00:40:36.409 Mira Brancu: Publishers, book book authors, actually. And so I'm excited to have her join us. We are. Gonna take a quick break again. This is the hard skills
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:52.749 Mira Brancu: we air. Live every Friday at one Pm. Eastern, and when we come back we'll continue and we'll get into the lightning round some questions that we received online from folks and responding to them. As as we continue on, so we'll be right back.
00:42:55.660 --> 00:43:02.740 Mira Brancu: Welcome back on the hard skills with Dr. Patty Wider, and we're talking about leading
00:43:02.830 --> 00:43:04.559 Mira Brancu: rue uncertainty.
00:43:04.670 --> 00:43:09.530 Mira Brancu: especially when navigating unhelpful societal messages.
00:43:10.030 --> 00:43:21.850 Mira Brancu: So we're moving into a lightning round, which is when we look at what people have already asked us online and respond to them. And we do have one question
00:43:21.930 --> 00:43:24.100 Mira Brancu: from Dr. Stephanie mockler.
00:43:24.540 --> 00:43:45.199 Mira Brancu: She is a count co-founder and president of the Violet Group, a leadership and organizational development company that cultivates inclusive leaders and helps women leader leaders rise so obviously, I have a deep support for her. There now. She asked a really interesting question. This kind of meaty. I think
00:43:45.590 --> 00:43:46.639 Mira Brancu: she says
00:43:46.870 --> 00:43:59.209 Mira Brancu: I'd be curious to know about bad advice you've heard or observed on navigating uncertainty. With the unhelpful messages we can receive. What types of advice should we avoid.
00:44:00.060 --> 00:44:02.190 Patti Weiter: What do you think, Patty?
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:06.160 Patti Weiter: You know, I think when it comes to advice.
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:07.969 Patti Weiter: sometimes you hear
00:44:08.310 --> 00:44:18.029 Patti Weiter: counter advice to each other. And so the the exact opposite of each other will be said to people.
00:44:18.190 --> 00:44:39.670 Patti Weiter: and so it can be really confusing, you know, if I'm hearing messages. But they don't, that you know. Now, what do I do? I'm hearing all sorts of things. So I think, you know, for one being able to look at the source of here who you're hearing advice from? Do I? Is this a trusted source and someone that I admire? And maybe you know, do I want to model myself after maybe the advice I hear from this source.
00:44:39.770 --> 00:44:46.499 Patti Weiter: But you know some of the things that I think people here might be things like
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:55.149 Patti Weiter: trust your gut or being able to you know, navigate based on intuition.
00:44:55.390 --> 00:45:14.029 Patti Weiter: And counter. You might also hear, like trust what's worked in the past, or trust. Only maybe data logistics, practical solutions that we know work. And I think both of those things are important. If we are moving forward, you know, with a sense of
00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:28.739 Patti Weiter: wisdom, with a sense of agility that we have to to be able to understand what's happening with us internally, you know, emotions, thoughts. Things like that are good. While also being able to have
00:45:28.850 --> 00:45:35.349 Patti Weiter: you know, influence based on facts, data and what we know. So
00:45:35.450 --> 00:45:45.979 Patti Weiter: II think it's more important to say, like, how do we take advice in a nuanced way? you know, and and really make sense of it?
00:45:46.130 --> 00:45:52.189 Patti Weiter: So that that's gonna be important, that we look at the source and that we look at.
00:45:52.640 --> 00:46:02.119 Patti Weiter: how this applies to what we're facing and the ways that
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:13.209 Patti Weiter: maybe there's more gray area, and it's not all black and white. It, I think that's really good advice. And what I'm hearing be behind what you're saying is.
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:15.220 Mira Brancu: there is
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:30.889 Mira Brancu: self trust, and there's wisdom. And both of those things are developed over time as you try things out and see what happens, and sometimes
00:46:31.230 --> 00:46:38.690 Mira Brancu: the the sort of more generalized one size fits all comments like, Trust your gut and
00:46:38.830 --> 00:46:43.049 Mira Brancu: you know. Trust. What's you know what's happened in the past.
00:46:43.240 --> 00:46:45.969 Mira Brancu: While it makes perfect sense.
00:46:46.610 --> 00:46:54.150 Mira Brancu: If you lived in a bubble Many of us have had such confusing
00:46:54.570 --> 00:46:56.629 Mira Brancu: or bad experiences
00:46:57.130 --> 00:47:00.210 Mira Brancu: or experiences where we've been
00:47:00.490 --> 00:47:24.240 Mira Brancu: like, how I started today talking about constant messages told to women that actually are so harmful and unhelpful. But then we start believing them. So then that is our gut, you know our gut is, don't trust myself because I don't know anything, because I'm not good enough. That is not accurate right? And so that's not helpful
00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:29.760 Mira Brancu: if that's what I'm sort of rooting into. And so what you're saying is,
00:47:29.780 --> 00:47:47.300 Mira Brancu: you know, start understanding like, how do you develop trust in yourself actually over time, and how you gain the wisdom to know the difference between someone else's messages about you that has nothing to do with you. And then what is actually the sort of
00:47:47.630 --> 00:47:49.299 Mira Brancu: you know what you're bringing?
00:47:49.460 --> 00:48:02.249 Patti Weiter: Yeah, yeah. Am I hearing? I don't know. Consistent themes that are specific and are you know, something that I can apply. That might be
00:48:03.050 --> 00:48:15.220 Patti Weiter: if if the advice I'm getting is really simple and supposed to be applied everywhere to everything. Then, do I really trust that that's valid and
00:48:15.790 --> 00:48:27.200 Patti Weiter: and typically, that's what we want. Right? That's a certainty that feels good. I don't have to continue questioning. I don't have to continue learning or connecting. I can just say, Okay, this is this is the answer.
00:48:27.410 --> 00:48:49.669 Patti Weiter: But usually, if we've got that idea that like, okay, to just trust this piece of advice. And that's the answer to everything.
00:48:49.870 --> 00:48:52.020 Mira Brancu: that
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:56.359 Mira Brancu: if you jump too fast to leading with certainty
00:48:56.390 --> 00:48:58.600 Mira Brancu: by having
00:48:58.780 --> 00:49:02.549 Mira Brancu: or insisting on having. the right answer.
00:49:02.680 --> 00:49:29.769 Patti Weiter: and that must mean it must apply to all things. Then, you know, you're going in the right wrong direction. Actually, because then, I mean, we know what happens then. We don't need to keep seeking out information that might, you know, take us in a different direction. We don't need to defer to anybody else that might give me their insights as an expert like it, just it stops growth when we feel so certain.
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:37.060 Patti Weiter: and that there is one right answer. It just slows us down because
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:43.699 Patti Weiter: we think we don't need to continue developing, learning and connecting
00:49:43.860 --> 00:49:50.569 Mira Brancu: some of the strongest people and true leaders understand what it's like to
00:49:50.580 --> 00:50:03.959 Mira Brancu: sit in the gray, sit with uncertainty and help. Other people do the same exact thing. So with that in mind, what is one thing that you would like people to take away from today?
00:50:05.180 --> 00:50:17.240 Patti Weiter: I would really like people to have compassion for themselves when they are in that uncertain space, that it is hard. and that
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:19.619 Patti Weiter: we don't have to
00:50:20.210 --> 00:50:24.790 Patti Weiter: have have the all the answers we can
00:50:25.810 --> 00:50:34.180 Patti Weiter: navigate those spaces, and and that it is important to navigate those spaces because we're learning through those experiences.
00:50:34.220 --> 00:50:36.760 Mira Brancu: And if people wanna
00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:39.610 Mira Brancu: learn more about you. Connect with you. Where did they go?
00:50:39.990 --> 00:51:03.260 Patti Weiter: I think probably Linkedin is your best bet if we can connect there. And just you know, Paddy, Wider. That I'm I'm active on there. I'm responsive. You can check my website out, doctor. I'm sorry Www. Can't speak, Patty Widercom. But Linkedin is best. I'm active, and I'll I'll be able to to get connected with people and
00:51:03.260 --> 00:51:13.980 Patti Weiter: and learn more about them. Awesome. And it's Patty with an I and wider WEIT. ER. Yes, you know. Not so simple. But hopefully, once we're connected.
00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:26.129 Mira Brancu: you'll you know I'm the only one you know. So absolutely, okay. So, audience, what did you take away? And more importantly, what is one small change that you can implement this week
00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:31.660 Mira Brancu: based on what you learned today from Patty share with us on Linkedin, so we can cheer you on
00:51:32.740 --> 00:51:37.109 Mira Brancu: and my team and I, as you heard.
00:51:37.210 --> 00:51:45.000 Mira Brancu: have developed this new tower Scope Leadership Academy. It's a membership community in which we're learning and talking about these skills more and more.
00:51:45.300 --> 00:52:02.950 Mira Brancu: We're launching a 9 week Beta version that will never be available again and never at this incredibly low price. It's 2 95, $295 for something that's worth $5,000. Okay, we're looking for very specific people
00:52:03.610 --> 00:52:06.460 Mira Brancu: that can help us grow the community
00:52:06.570 --> 00:52:18.839 Mira Brancu: and really help us start out strong, and that we can invest in who have a ripple effect on other people to create this kind of healthy, inclusive environment. Okay, so apply now.
00:52:19.300 --> 00:52:28.720 Mira Brancu: And we start on October second. and you can find us@gotowarscope.com and navigate to the Academy.
00:52:28.950 --> 00:52:33.279 Mira Brancu: or find out more from either of us at Linkedin.
00:52:33.430 --> 00:52:35.799 Mira Brancu: Okay, so
00:52:35.870 --> 00:52:39.639 Mira Brancu: whatever you learn this week? Make sure to share with us.
00:52:40.280 --> 00:53:07.380 Mira Brancu: posted on talk radio, Dot, Nyc or Admira Branku or Patty Wider and on Linkedin. Yes, we're also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter Tid twitch all over the place. But Linkedin is kind of where we live, Patty and I. Okay. Next Friday, September eighth, we have Dr. Rayman, Abdul Rahman, and he will share his expertise on leading with uncertainty when engaging in Dei efforts. You will not wanna miss that.
00:53:07.410 --> 00:53:32.289 Mira Brancu: Remember, this is a radio show. And podcast while yes, we are clinical and organizational psychologists and coaches. We are not your clinical, psychologist or coach. None of what we have discussed should be taken as legal medical or mental health advice. If you want advice from professionals, engage with them, and you can engage with us as well, thank you all, and join us next Friday at one Pm. Eastern, for more.
00:53:33.320 --> 00:53:34.580 Patti Weiter: Thanks, Mira
00:53:34.660 --> 00:53:35.970 Mira Brancu: absolutely
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