Frank About Health

Thursday, August 25, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/08/25 - The Nursing Profession

Facebook Live Video from 2022/08/25 - The Nursing Profession


2022/08/25 - The Nursing Profession

[NEW EPISODE] The Nursing Profession


The audience should listen as Phyllis goes over the results of a recent survey that has shown the decline in engagement and the need for redesigning the healthcare profession for  the future


The Nursing Profession has undergone a forced transition primarily due to the COVID 19 Pandemic. In the last 2 years they have become the utmost Essential Worker and as we have evolved towards a new normal, the increase in burnout and dissatisfaction has forced the healthcare profession to come up with new solutions to keep the profession fully staffed and the nurses recognized for all they continue to do each day.


Tune in for this healthy conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Today, Co-host Phyllis Quinlan joins Frank to talk about the entire quality of the nursing profession and where it is headed. They head right in, and Phyllis starts off with some statistics. 67% of nurses plan to leave their position in 3 years according to a AACN survey. She expresses concerns about the possible misuse of this research making people second think about getting into healthcare. Next, they talk about staffing issues currently in healthcare. They then talk about the history of nursing and perception of nurses.

Segment 2

The two again talk about staffing issues and Phyllis shared a story about the struggle to recruit nurses. They then talk about the education you would need to become a nurse. After that Phyllis discusses some effects COVID had on the workforce.

Segment 3

The two talk about job opportunities and how they have evolved in the medical profession and then transition into the burnout and other effects that these jobs are giving nurses and other workers in the healthcare system. They then talk about the future of young nurses.

Segment 4

Phyllis again brings up the work environment and staffing, before giving some shout-outs, sharing some statistics, and closing out the podcast.


00:00:55.610 --> 00:01:23.660 Frank R. Harrison: hey, everybody, and welcome to this new episode of rank about health. Today I will first issue my disclaimer before I get into the episode. The views that we mentioned in today's show are not the views of Frank about health or talk, radio and Nyc. But rather food, but for a very insightful, interesting, engaging conversation between me and my usual co-host, Phyllis Quinlan. But in this case she's also my special guest,

00:01:23.670 --> 00:01:53.139 Frank R. Harrison: and I will explain that further. Please note that any of the information here is to be taken as information that might pertain to you. But it is not in any way to dissuade you from discontinuing any of your ongoing treatments, medications, or other services that you are currently engaging in in managing your quality of life and your overall healthcare, that all being said welcome as we discuss about the importance of retaining nurses, and where we go from here.

00:01:53.150 --> 00:02:16.690 Frank R. Harrison: That's the title of today's episode today, Phyllis Quinlan, who, by the way, is the President and Ceo of Mfw. Consultants to professionals, is also with the experience of having been on Frank about how to discuss many important critical issues when it comes to topics such as caregiving, such as understanding the importance of

00:02:16.700 --> 00:02:36.809 Frank R. Harrison: nursing and trauma, professionals and alternative care and rkey and other kinds of issues that we've really brought to light, especially on last week's episode, when we were looking at three interesting authors that had their own healthcare story. And so that was the incentive

00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:55.029 Frank R. Harrison: to have a discussion today about some recent research that Phyllis has engaged in on the entire quality of the nursing profession as it has been, and where it's headed going forward, and the important issues that we need to really explore, to understand how to really

00:02:55.040 --> 00:03:05.479 Frank R. Harrison: of right in the best talent that we have in such a critical need as health care. So that, all being said, Phyllis,

00:03:05.490 --> 00:03:18.380 Frank R. Harrison: welcome as always to this episode of Frank about health, but I wanted to know definitely what what motivated you to discuss this particular issue tonight.

00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:24.820 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, Frank, first I want to thank you for letting me come on, not just as your co-host, but as your guests this evening.

00:03:24.830 --> 00:03:44.159 Phyllis Quinlan: Um, I really wanted to have a forum to put into context. So. Ah! An article that has come out that has been published by the American Association of Critical Care Nurses. It came out in early August, and it is now circulating and causing quite a bit of discussion,

00:03:44.170 --> 00:04:02.229 Phyllis Quinlan: and it's not causing quite a bit of discussion because of the quality of the research. The research is wonderful. The survey that was conducted by the American Association of Critical Care Nurses is important and ongoing and just part of the collective great body of work that comes out of Aacn.

00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:15.760 Phyllis Quinlan: But one of the lines that was in the recent article that was published in the Critical Care Nurse. The publication for aacn was a little bit of, I guess what we could call headline grabbing

00:04:15.770 --> 00:04:31.370 Phyllis Quinlan: um, and it reads sixty-seven excuse me. Sixty-seven percent of nurses plan to leave their position within three years, and that was a report from over nine thousand nurses that took the Aacs.

00:04:31.380 --> 00:04:58.990 Phyllis Quinlan: So, as you can imagine, if anyone is reading that, and and various social media outlets have picked it up. Various ah health care publications, online healthcare publications have picked it up, but they're not picking it up necessarily in the context in which it was written. They're picking up that line, because you know it leads leads, you know. And ah, my my concern. My sincere concern is that

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:22.600 Phyllis Quinlan: at a time when we were coming out of such a dark place of the pandemic, when we're looking towards the future, to try to regain a sense of resilience and well being when it's now safe to go back to the doctor and get your appropriate screening and lean more into conventional methods of making sure you're the healthiest you possibly can be.

00:05:23.110 --> 00:05:35.989 Phyllis Quinlan: I don't want any misuse of this research to make people think twice about going into health care because they don't think that the hospitals are stabbed properly. That is not the case,

00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:56.859 Phyllis Quinlan: and I I really want to lend some context to that, and I really appreciate you allowing me to come on today in the capacity of a guest, in order to share some insights, and and also to say how proud I am of the of the work being done by Aacn. I have been a member of the Association of Critical Careers is

00:05:56.870 --> 00:06:01.890 Phyllis Quinlan: um one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine. I think we go. We go back a bit.

00:06:01.900 --> 00:06:03.990 Phyllis Quinlan: We'll go back again.

00:06:04.030 --> 00:06:05.680 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, yes,

00:06:06.810 --> 00:06:36.729 Frank R. Harrison: no. But I mean the thing is is that, as you realize when we have done all these various episodes of Frank about health together, a lot of the focus is apparently on the doctor or the specialist or the alternative care practitioner, and we find that nursing plays a role that is in the periphery. So what I was even most incentivized by having you come on The show today is really for a to a list together to shed light on how valuable literacy

00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:49.010 Frank R. Harrison: the question is. I know as you, as you know, about my circumstances. Going on with my father, for example, I think over the last two weeks I met four different nurses, and we were talking about quality of home care,

00:06:49.020 --> 00:07:15.610 Frank R. Harrison: you know, and something that I had not done really in the last two years. I was always seeing his oncologist for seeing his other Pcp or things like that. But when I was having conversations with them, it reminded me of you, so I thought it was very timely that we really shed light and make awareness solicitors, viewers out there as to how valuable that the nursing profession is, and they're just not shared on a spotlight during a pandemic that they're they're They're an irrelevant

00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:17.960 going definitely into the future.

00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:28.289 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, you know respectfully, there's nothing peripheral about nurses. Respectful right. We we are the central core of health care. If the nurses go down, forget about it

00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:46.120 Phyllis Quinlan: about it, you know you'll You'll have a lot, you know people will get pills, dressings will get changed. But when you're thinking about the the profession of nursing and what it lends to the quality of care here in the United States and across the country.

00:07:46.130 --> 00:08:08.949 Phyllis Quinlan: You know the the accountability and responsibility that is imprinted on their Dna. The the amount of academic preparation in clinical competencies, national certifications, board certifications in multiple clinical areas. How we have changed this profession since The''s, when it was a hospital based three year program

00:08:08.960 --> 00:08:25.089 Phyllis Quinlan: all the way through the associates program. Baccalaureate multiple ways to obtain a master's degree in three tremendous areas of specialty. And now six to seven percent of the nursing population is prepared at a doctorate level. There is nothing peripheral about nursing.

00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:44.489 Phyllis Quinlan: There is, we are, we are at the heart of it. We are the advocates, and that that is the first thing that we learn is that you speak for a patient, and you make sure you advocate for the patient. So really, I wanted this opportunity to lend some context to the fact that Yes, we have

00:08:44.500 --> 00:09:13.449 Phyllis Quinlan: um. You know we have some staffing issues. We have the whole country. Maybe the whole planet is is facing this great resignation kind of challenge. But I want to assure everyone, you know that the nursing organizations and healthcare industry across the country are working collaboratively. To speak frankly about this this subject, and to and to find, not just mundane solutions, but also very creative solutions, and

00:09:13.460 --> 00:09:33.839 Phyllis Quinlan: they are canvassing the nursing population, really trying to put their ear to the ground to listen to what the nurses are saying, and taking this very, very seriously, and doing their very best to make incremental changes accordingly. As you know, when we're dealing with organizations, nothing works quickly,

00:09:33.850 --> 00:09:50.320 Phyllis Quinlan: so you know you just don't want change for change's sake. You want to have you want to have tests of change, so that you can see what works best, and then whatever is identified as what works best. You want to try to hardwire it into your culture.

00:09:50.360 --> 00:10:19.879 Frank R. Harrison: Right? Right? Yeah, You know It's kind of funny. I I think to myself that especially during the last several months about it ending and doing this, show a lot of the people that I've been able to speak to first and foremost, prior to getting to my father's doctors, or my cousin's doctors, or my own doctors, has been the nurses that work with them, and I found that I would have much more engaging and well thought out conversations with them about the long term care of the patient in question; and the thing is is that

00:10:19.890 --> 00:10:30.949 Frank R. Harrison: it just becomes a little bit of an enigma to me until maybe this episode, where you're providing the context that's necessary. But what do you think is the reason why that

00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:44.730 Frank R. Harrison: public perception has been that nurses are not an afterthought? I don't want to use the wrong word here that they don't get the respect that they inherently deserve. What What do you think that? That is a function of

00:10:46.380 --> 00:10:47.890 Phyllis Quinlan: reality,

00:10:49.030 --> 00:11:03.530 Phyllis Quinlan: I know, but it's like again. Our nurses, by and large, have have had to advocate and demonstrate and claim their chair in the room they have had to say, Well, here's where we are,

00:11:03.540 --> 00:11:32.690 Phyllis Quinlan: and we're not backing away from it. You can call it a function of a female-dominated profession up until maybe the eightys There's a lot of sociological things that are imparted into this our our background. Our roots are in the military and religious services. That's where we get our hierarchy from chief nursing Officer Ed nurse. You wear a uniform,

00:11:32.700 --> 00:12:01.960 Phyllis Quinlan: the caps as opposed to a veil, you know there's a lot of you know culture and sociology in that perception where angels of mercy and angels of mercy. Don't necessarily ask for what's rightly, truly theirs. They They work from compassion, and that should be enough as opposed to appropriate salary and recognition for what their license is, allowing them to do, so that they can work a license. There are ten thousand different reasons

00:12:01.970 --> 00:12:20.040 Phyllis Quinlan: why the perception of nurses isn't as stellar as I'd like it to be, not the least of which are, you know, Tv programs and movies and different things have portrayed nurses, not in the capacity of what they are doing,

00:12:20.050 --> 00:12:46.069 Phyllis Quinlan: you know. So we really do have to reach out and make sure that we're we need to do. I think one of the things that we need to do is put a better job out a better word out there, and maybe market ourselves, or at least put our messages out there. So some of the extraordinary things that are being done by nurses are not just taken for granted, and, like you know Job. Well done good for you. But we actually promote this, as you know, one of the

00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:50.320 Phyllis Quinlan: just, invaluable, indispensable professions on the planet

00:12:50.610 --> 00:13:19.300 Frank R. Harrison: You don't know Well, we have a right now, but I just wanted to say what we'll talk about in the next segment is how together, Maybe i'm going on this episode. Especially, we can learn to start changing the narrative on the cursing session, because, I do believe, needs to be seen on footing as any medical question. All right, That all being said, please stay tuned on this episode of Frank about health, with special guest and co-host Phillis appointment, and we'll see you in a few minutes after these messages. I'm talking to you. Nyc. And

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00:15:33.130 --> 00:15:50.739 Frank R. Harrison: welcome back. And as we were just ah exiting before the break Um, you Phyllis, we're talking about the grain resignation that is pending over the next three years based on that survey. Um, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions in relation to that is, is a nursing shortage

00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:56.610 Frank R. Harrison: or a new phenomenon, or the brain resignation in relation to nurses and new phenomena.

00:15:56.620 --> 00:16:24.490 Phyllis Quinlan: It's a great question, Frank, and this is this is one of the key things that I don't think many people really understand. Staffing is Ah is a a perpetual issue. Okay, recruitment. Retention. Turnover is a perpetual issue. Yes, you go through periods where you know there are more challenges than not so. But I don't know if your listeners know. But back in the in the late eightys we we the United States, we're recruiting from all over the country

00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:49.670 Phyllis Quinlan: to bring nurses into the United States because we did not have enough nurses. So we were recruiting in the Philippines. We were recruiting in the United Kingdom. We were recruiting in Ireland and India. We were recruiting any place that you know, where the academic preparation pretty much aligned with what you would find here in the United States, and the secret ingredient. People were fluent in English,

00:16:49.680 --> 00:17:16.439 Phyllis Quinlan: so there were open open doors for immigration set out there, and there were alliances that had to be made based on housing and bringing people over and orientation, and I was involved in really orienting a tremendous amount of those nurses in the In the organization I was working with at the time. So you know the point that I'm really trying to make here is that this is a perpetual challenge,

00:17:16.450 --> 00:17:46.399 Phyllis Quinlan: and I don't want it. I I don't want people to not be concerned, and I am absolutely dedicated to creating healthiest work, environments and supporting people in pursuing and finding the joy and staying connected to the mission and purpose of their profession. But this is an ongoing challenge it's been. I started practicing in the late seventy S. It's been an ongoing challenge. The forty four years I've been practicing, and we have taken extraordinary steps again, recruiting internationally

00:17:46.410 --> 00:18:16.399 Phyllis Quinlan: to bring nurses to the United States. That's just one thing that we did, You know. It was a concern that started in the in the late ninety S. Where you know baby boomers were starting to the the average age of the nurse in and around that time was somewhere in the late mid to late fifty S. So, of course, we were projecting that people would be retiring, and we weren't seeing a lot of people going into nursing programs. So there was a real good look at. How do we get nurses?

00:18:16.410 --> 00:18:32.069 Phyllis Quinlan: Is in? What is the way? How do you appeal and promote the profession of nursing what it is, what it's not according to television and things of that nature. And how do you access a pathway?

00:18:32.080 --> 00:18:43.480 Phyllis Quinlan: Whether it's starting at the associate degree level, moving on to a baccalaureate level? But how do you access a pathway to become a professional registered nurse? All of these things have been going on for years.

00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:56.619 Phyllis Quinlan: So when people read these headlines that sixty seven percent of the nurses are meeting. They're not leaving the profession of nursing. They're weaving the position more than likely of what they are doing now,

00:18:56.630 --> 00:19:04.809 Phyllis Quinlan: and they are looking for something else now that could be because they are in retirement age, and are looking for perdium or part-time.

00:19:04.820 --> 00:19:33.570 Phyllis Quinlan: That could be because they have earned other certifications, advanced practice and different things. They're looking for opportunities that could be like myself. They're going to become an entrepreneur, and they're going to partner in different ways. There, There are multiple reasons for this, but I just don't want your listeners to start thinking God. The last place that's safe on earth is our hospitals, because that's just not the reality, and I can share with you. These are the challenges I have faced

00:19:33.580 --> 00:19:46.189 Phyllis Quinlan: as a as a clinician and educator administrator for the last forty four years, and we have navigated them well. And in the midst of navigating these challenges we have grown the profession exponentially.

00:19:46.200 --> 00:20:01.959 Phyllis Quinlan: The nurses. Now, you know, really, you know, among the the highest, you know, educated workforce we are ever seeing. They're coming out with their degrees they're going on for their clinical certifications. Many of them are choosing

00:20:01.970 --> 00:20:18.560 Phyllis Quinlan: masters programs, either in business or in advanced practice, nurse practitioners, or in education. And you know we've never had enough academics to be able to staff the colleges enough, so we're trying to promote

00:20:18.570 --> 00:20:37.279 Phyllis Quinlan: doctrine prepared nurses, and we are now up to about five to six percent of nurses are prepared at the doctorate level, which is then going to foster our ability to have more nursing. Students come in. So we're on this, and I don't want your listeners to think we're not.

00:20:37.450 --> 00:21:06.309 Phyllis Quinlan: Oh, no, I I I've I've actually seen it firsthand, particularly in the yu lango and health systems where the nurses are just as actively involved as the medical student interns that are in their specialties. But I mean, I think, even in. Why, you create an entire nursing division of West at five, six, seven years. Um! But the thing that i'm trying to point out is just prototype. That's just the microcosm, the But from the from the long term perspective of the profession,

00:21:06.320 --> 00:21:35.760 Frank R. Harrison: I think that there are definitely other aspects of the profession that have to be more fleshed out and more communicated to bring a different narrative to the perception that has unfortunately existed for all these these years, that You've been in the profession. Um, I mean. I mentioned earlier, though, that there was a lot of improvement in far away countries. Did you find that nurses were considered more traveling nurses. Or is that the same thing domestically, that nurses been in the United States

00:21:35.770 --> 00:21:39.389 are going outside the country for more type of nursing work.

00:21:39.400 --> 00:22:05.749 Phyllis Quinlan: So we we. The whole idea of supplemental staffing came about in the mid eighty S. And again it pretty much coincided with the fact that we were recruiting outside of the country to supplement the the numbers that we needed, and you know there were opportunities that you know, if you wanted to keep your day job, so to speak, but you also. Then we were also going into those twelve hour ships.

00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:35.580 Phyllis Quinlan: So people had multiple days. Well, there were options to work in other organizations, or do other ships, perhaps in another organization, or in another venue where you were clinically competent. But you were you kind of testing the waters and stretching your clinical skills, and doing whatever. And of course you know, commanding a salary for that. Um, I promise you as much as we deserve, and we want, you know, a commensurate salary. I don't know I've never met a nurse that said, Yeah, I went into nursing for the money, because

00:22:35.590 --> 00:22:59.370 Phyllis Quinlan: it's just not there, and you know we go into nursing for very, very different reasons. But we do deserve and and command a substantial salary that it should be commensurate with their academic preparation or clinical certifications or not experience just like any other profession. But people get horrified when we talk about this because we're supposed to be the angels of mercy or caring peace, and it's almost

00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:27.360 Phyllis Quinlan: unlady like, if you all right to say no, I. This is what I command at this point I mean, we need to as a population get past that, because there's a significant number of professional registered nurses that are men, and there are people who identify very differently now, all in nursing, providing extraordinary care, getting the planet through the pandemic, doing what they need to do. Let's talk about those travel nurses for a second,

00:23:27.370 --> 00:23:31.389 Phyllis Quinlan: because there's a big misperception out there that's part of the marketing.

00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:39.449 Phyllis Quinlan: Now you know that I am a professional coach for several of our professional nurses associations, and I speak to nurses across the country.

00:23:39.460 --> 00:23:55.430 Phyllis Quinlan: Yes, there are three reasons, and I'm finding that nurses choose to go into traveling. One is the younger nurses coming in are now saying, Wow! The planet actually shut down, and you know what that means that it could potentially shut down again.

00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:16.239 Phyllis Quinlan: I'd better go travel and see the planet one or ten, because who knows what's happening in five years, two years, or whatever. Let me let me travel. Now. Let me see the country. Let me do what I want to do, and experiment and test things here while i'm young enough to enjoy it, and then i'll settle down. But there is this

00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:23.779 Phyllis Quinlan: Whoa! That was close. I wasn't sure I was going to ever enjoy my adulthood or my middle aged with

00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:53.369 Phyllis Quinlan: The second piece is that there are there are nurses, and a and a substantial number of them that were just done after Covid. They were done. They were done with. How it was managed or mismanaged. They were done with. Um. There was there. There were a number of ah staff of nurses that recorded that they were not happy with the fact that they maybe their leaders weren't as visible as they would like to have been. They felt that they were not necessarily being

00:24:53.380 --> 00:25:22.740 Phyllis Quinlan: protected or advocated, for there was a loss of trust. And what happens then is people shut down? They isolate the worst thing a professional caregiver can do. But this is what's happened, and what they did now is they're reporting to me that they left the professional practice where they were, but they are going to practice nursing to the best of their capability for themselves, and they're going to take travel assignments in hospitals and organizations where they feel they can just

00:25:22.750 --> 00:25:29.670 Phyllis Quinlan: practice at and do their personal best each and every day, and then come home, and it's. It's almost like a healing period.

00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.889 Phyllis Quinlan: They they're not leaving the profession by any stretch,

00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:47.940 Phyllis Quinlan: but they don't want to work in the organization or the industry of health care which people do confuse. There's a difference between the profession of nursing and the industry of health care two different things

00:25:47.950 --> 00:25:52.189 Phyllis Quinlan: right. The last, and I think probably the least reported

00:25:52.200 --> 00:26:03.679 Phyllis Quinlan: that I am getting is that while many nurses worked and were overworked during Covid, they their spouses and significant others perhaps, were not

00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:31.550 Phyllis Quinlan: so. If they had a a family business it went under. If if somebody was working in another industry, they got laid off or furlough. So people were burning through their savings and their children's. Ah! You know college fund in order to make ends meet until the end of the pandemic. So they they have this opportunity. Now they're exhausted,

00:26:31.560 --> 00:26:52.269 Phyllis Quinlan: and you know nothing. No reality has changed for them, but they now have an opportunity for the short period of time, or the window that is open to make more money than they ever thought they could, and they're not doing it for the money as such. They're doing it because I can make that money and replenish my retirement fund. I can put back in my children's

00:26:52.280 --> 00:27:04.570 Phyllis Quinlan: College Fund. I can financially recover from the consequences of Covid, and has nothing to do with nursing as such, and everything to do with the security of my family.

00:27:04.610 --> 00:27:05.640 Phyllis Quinlan: Right?

00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:12.650 Phyllis Quinlan: This is what i'm hearing from nurses across the country who are choosing to do travel nursing at this point,

00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:32.499 Phyllis Quinlan: and that tends to get misrepresented, You know, when you know a lot of people are out there, surmising, estimating, assuming. Well, here's the motivation behind this. Everybody's in it for money that that is just not the case. It's not my reality. And i'm talking to those. It's not what they're sharing with me.

00:27:32.830 --> 00:27:46.710 Frank R. Harrison: Well, we're headed for another break, but when we get back I want to bring up a few things that you mentioned. That also implied the issue of Burnout, and I want to get into a further discussion with you on that that, all being said, please stay tuned as we are

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:56.290 Frank R. Harrison: talking about retaining nurses, and where we go from here on this episode of Frank about health, both on talk, radio and Nyc. And on Facebook live. Please stay too.

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00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:28.060 Welcome back! Um, Phyllis. It's very. It's very interesting to see how everybody, whether they were a nurse, or whether they were a doctor or just an average everyday citizen, responded to a two and a half year long pandemic, and the issue that always comes up on any anybody's retrospect of how they went through. It is the issue of burnout. You had mentioned about how that a lot of the people that are traveling nurses are doing it for a lot of reasons that are probably

00:30:28.070 --> 00:30:44.289 Frank R. Harrison: looking for that new window that new, bright light, after having to go through the stresses and losses that they had to face while and during the pandemic struggles and pressures and things like that? Was it just an issue of burnout, though,

00:30:44.300 --> 00:30:58.550 Frank R. Harrison: or was it a catalyst that would provoke people to go a look elsewhere, whether through traveling or through just mirroring their nursing with more entrepreneurial activities. That's what I wanted to first find out.

00:30:58.620 --> 00:31:01.490 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, I think, as I explained, the the

00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:28.610 Phyllis Quinlan: here's three dominant reasons that i'm being made aware of by the nurses who are traveling themselves. It's one I got to see the planet. Why, it can, you know, too. Um, I need to. I need to just buy back into my profession. I don't want to be part of an organization I don't want to trust, or I feel as though didn't treat me well enough during the pandemic, so i'm taking that opportunity to break, and then three is well. We're pretty much financially hanging by our

00:31:28.620 --> 00:31:57.540 Phyllis Quinlan: fingernails, and I had this responsibility to my family to build either the college fund back up or my retirement fund back up, because Covid hit our family hard. So those are the three, the three pieces. But let me share with you what some of the great leaders across the country are talking about, and because I think it's really insightful. There is an organization called the Advisory Board, and the Advisory Board is a think tank, and it is,

00:31:57.550 --> 00:32:14.440 Phyllis Quinlan: and it's something that health care executives across the country kind of subscribe to, and it's a curation of knowledge, if you will, so you can read a lot and gain a lot of insight in a short period of time, because who could keep up with

00:32:14.450 --> 00:32:43.770 Phyllis Quinlan: And you know they did a podcast not too long ago, probably within the last two weeks or so. And what they were talking about is that it's not a great resignation. It's a great realignment, and that as I shared with you, people are not leaving the profession. They're leaving the position. Maybe the conventional position, and they're looking for something that better aligns with what they now want for themselves in life and and better comforts with

00:32:43.910 --> 00:33:10.160 Phyllis Quinlan: um Ah! It feeding their soul as opposed to just practicing their profession. They. They want a little excitement they want to share, you know. Stretch the edge of the envelope. They want to see if entrepreneurism is for them, or if this piece over here, perhaps telemedicine is for them. Um. So they're looking at new and different, according to the Advisory Board and nontraditional opportunities Again, you know,

00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:20.630 Phyllis Quinlan: prior to two thousand and twenty, the driving force for people leaving a job and going to another job with salaries, and and that's not, you know. I mean, that's any industry that's not

00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:49.889 Phyllis Quinlan: unique to nursing everybody with everybody, and anybody is going to do that. But we're finding, according to the advisory board post. Twenty Twenty people are looking at their organizations, and they're saying, Is my organization conducting itself in a way that's socially responsible? Is my organization someplace where it is diverse, you know, where opportunities are equitable, and I feel included and belong to this organization. Am I going to be led by someone who looks like me,

00:33:50.090 --> 00:34:00.220 Phyllis Quinlan: and and they're really very concerned, especially the younger, the younger generations very, very concerned about corporate integrity. So when I tell you this is the

00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:14.329 Phyllis Quinlan: the most educated group of nurses in my lifetime. I'm. Not kidding. They are asking some serious questions, and they are. They are seeing themselves as not just citizens of the United States, but citizens of the planet,

00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:30.790 Phyllis Quinlan: and they they want to serve. But they are not going to get caught up in, or they are saying, i'm going to make sure I don't get caught up in an organization that doesn't align with my my sense of Social justice, mission, and purpose, which

00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:47.390 Phyllis Quinlan: by one thousand percent applaud. But of course, the message in that is to healthcare organizations is that we need to take a good look at ourselves. We need to take a criteria, one of the criteria for the best places to work. There are, you know, there are all sorts of criteria

00:34:47.400 --> 00:35:09.460 Phyllis Quinlan: to with How how organizations get rated for? Is this the best place to work? Is it not a best place to work? You need to start thinking about that, and you need to start listening, especially to the younger nurses coming in about what's really important to them. What I really really enjoyed was, I was watching a podcast that was put out by the Schwartz Center for compassion,

00:35:09.470 --> 00:35:23.149 Phyllis Quinlan: and it was it was out on. I want to say the tenth of this month, and there were nurse leaders on there, some very credible, very credentialed nurse leaders, and the the name of that podcast

00:35:23.160 --> 00:35:49.939 Phyllis Quinlan: was the organizational strategies to address the nation's nursing crisis. So they're not pulling punches. They they understand we're in tough times, and the people that were represented were nurse researchers from across the country people who represented nursing professional organizations across the country and the American Nurses Association Foundation. So these were significant poet leaders in

00:35:49.950 --> 00:35:56.769 Phyllis Quinlan: the number. One thing they said is that we have to acknowledge that we have a mental health emergency within the profession,

00:35:56.780 --> 00:36:13.240 Phyllis Quinlan: and you and I have talked about the fact that you know organizations regardless of the profession they want to keep going. Let's think Forward, Let's keep going. Leave the pandemic behind us. You know. Forward, Blah! Blah! Blah! Well, That's okay. But when you're exhausted that's a little tough

00:36:13.250 --> 00:36:39.930 Phyllis Quinlan: and and we are not built for this kind of persistent uncertainty that we have dealt with in the last two and a half years. We're not built for this. This is war. This is war mentality. We haven't had anything like this since World War Ii. Where it you know, this persistent, persistent things going on for weeks, months, years, but then, followed by the uncertainty, and when is he going to stop? It takes its toll.

00:36:39.940 --> 00:36:45.959 Phyllis Quinlan: Yes, it's told, and we have to appreciate that normal, healthy, coping skills,

00:36:45.970 --> 00:37:15.910 Phyllis Quinlan: you know, and good peer support is is is starting to evaporate because it's just going on for too long. Covid. In many cases, in response to Covid may be over, and we have a hot couple of hotspots and whatnot to do, but the consequences of Covid, the fallout from the exhaustion of Covid is far from her. So you know they they're really saying that you know, they they really feel that the mental health

00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:31.099 Phyllis Quinlan: issues are really beginning to think, and they can manifest in all sorts of things anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress eating disorders. Whatever the case account for about fifty percent of what we reported as the number for burnout,

00:37:31.110 --> 00:37:36.700 Phyllis Quinlan: and that there is such a stigma associated with getting help.

00:37:36.710 --> 00:37:39.439 Phyllis Quinlan: Now I I want to. I want to

00:37:39.660 --> 00:37:47.609 Phyllis Quinlan: poke your memory for a minute. I don't know, if you remember, that there was a physician who in New York her name is Dr. Lorner,

00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:52.960 Phyllis Quinlan: and she was a physician. I want to say she was a Columbia Presbyterian, but i'm not sure.

00:37:52.970 --> 00:38:10.899 Phyllis Quinlan: Um. She. She was, of course, one of the physicians. Like many physicians mounting the response she had shared with her family, that she was starting to crack and crumble under the stress of what was going on. But she didn't feel like she could say anything because she thought it would affect her career

00:38:10.910 --> 00:38:29.900 Phyllis Quinlan: right, and she didn't pay anything. And then she contracted Covid, and the heartbreak here is that she was in such agony. She took her home, and it was like it really made the headlines a physician commit suicide.

00:38:30.050 --> 00:38:51.679 Phyllis Quinlan: Well, you know, there is no silver lining to that kind of tragedy. But Lorna had wonderful family, and they got together, and they said, You know this can never happen again. Mornin's legacy has to be for something positive. They worked with with President Biden, and they were able to successfully campaign and pass the law of re that

00:38:51.690 --> 00:39:11.650 Phyllis Quinlan: and establish the Lord of Green Foundation. The launching act provides for millions of dollars in programming and support for mental health programs across the country for professional caregivers, and through that Lorna marine foundation they are starting to do some research, and they are now

00:39:11.660 --> 00:39:21.890 Phyllis Quinlan: lending their very strong voice to the collective voice of the issue of mental health, which is number one. We need to let go of the stigma.

00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:32.029 Phyllis Quinlan: So you know, we have to get away from the mentality I grew up in, which was, suck it up, Buttercup, you know, and denying our humanness.

00:39:32.040 --> 00:39:43.100 Phyllis Quinlan: And now start to really embrace It's okay, not to be okay, but it's not okay, not to ask for help, and it's not okay, not to accept help when it's all.

00:39:43.110 --> 00:40:12.799 Phyllis Quinlan: So we we really need to change mindset. We really need to change perspective, and we really need to work through this stigma of. You know, when health care providers are showing their humanness that that is somehow a signal that they're not good enough, or they're right, or they are not strong enough. That is nonsense, that is, that is a demonstration of their humanity, and we need to show them the same loving-kindness support,

00:40:12.810 --> 00:40:16.490 and of course throw the resources at them as we would a patient.

00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:23.089 Phyllis Quinlan: So I mean they are extraordinary people. They are among the most generous people on the planet, but they're human first,

00:40:23.160 --> 00:40:29.189 Phyllis Quinlan: so we we really need to be able to do that. Another thing that came up i'm sorry.

00:40:29.200 --> 00:40:54.200 Phyllis Quinlan: Oh, no! I was actually going to say that one of the questions that came to my mind was about what you think things to help you work environment. But you're actually answering it, because what you're saying is that as the burnout has led to that one instance, for example, where that woman took her life as a result of whatever was going through her mind and holding up and holding everything inside, and not being able to express herself. That's based on the organizational structure

00:40:54.210 --> 00:41:24.150 Phyllis Quinlan: that has not shifted, or that has not changed with the times, and I guess what needs to be done as well. We're discussing today and what I gather a lot of the nurses we're talking about leaving are trying to do is reach out from an organizational mindset and go from the entrepreneurial mindset to create the culture that is needed for these professionals to continue to thrive even during a pandemic or other stress

00:41:24.160 --> 00:41:25.169 Questions.

00:41:25.180 --> 00:41:30.110 Phyllis Quinlan: Yes, and I think this is what we're seeing from the from the younger nurses, or

00:41:30.230 --> 00:42:00.109 Phyllis Quinlan: when I say younger nurses, let me also say, newer nurses who are coming into nursing as a second profession. They may not be young as such, but they are new for nurses, and they are highly educated, and they are asking boot questions like, Why would anxiety be a problem? What does that mean? I've navigated my entire life, and here I am today. And now, of course, you're telling me i'm not good enough, because you're nervous about my anxiety, but that makes no sense. So they're They're They're asking good questions. They're asking,

00:42:00.120 --> 00:42:04.789 Phyllis Quinlan: you know. Why? Why not? You know?

00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:29.690 Phyllis Quinlan: Look at equity, inclusion, and diversity. What are we so afraid of? What would we lose? We have everything today, and they're asking really good questions, and I think, to support that. And I think those of us that have been in the profession for a long time. It's it's kind of like you know. It's a little unnerving, not because the questions are being asked, but because we don't have all the answers

00:42:29.850 --> 00:42:57.190 Phyllis Quinlan: correct. But we are. We are trying to find those answers, and those answers might be hidden in a bit of, you know. Ah, ah! Unconscious bias! And those answers might be hidden in other things, and fear of of loss of you know your prestige, or you know I i'm not sure what my role is in this organization anymore, or even just fear of having a conversation for fear that you might

00:42:57.200 --> 00:43:15.619 Phyllis Quinlan: lose your job. Then somebody offend somebody, so you know it. It gets worse before it gets better. But there's There's never a bad thing about asking good questions, and these questions needed to be answered. And I'm going to answer your healthy work environment Question. When we come back,

00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:48.389 everybody, it's Tommy Dean and the nonprofit sector can actually coming at you from my attic each week here on top ratings at Nyc. I host the program, the lamb that we need to focus nonprofits in every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their stories.

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:55.940 Listen. Each week at ten A. M. We've been standing in time until eleven o'clock A. M. He's right here on talk radio.

00:43:56.520 --> 00:44:01.990 You may have many unanswered questions regarding your health.

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00:45:27.240 --> 00:45:35.389 Frank R. Harrison: Welcome back, and this classic way that we just did that break. But I do want to know the answer to the question as well,

00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:35.890 but that

00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:47.500 Phyllis Quinlan: so? The the idea of creating and sustaining a healthy work environment is something very near and dear to my heart, and I honestly talk about it as the leadership imperative for the <unknown>unknown<unknown>st century.

00:45:47.530 --> 00:46:16.400 Phyllis Quinlan: I'm not the first one to talk about healthy work. Environment. I'm. Not that smart. There are some great thought leaders out there, not the least of which is Dr. Christina Maslock, who has put a tremendous amount of work out on these subjects. She identifies four things that will make a healthy work environment. She's talking about workload control, How much control individual workers would have are their appropriate rewards. And what is the idea of fairness in distribution work?

00:46:16.410 --> 00:46:45.199 Phyllis Quinlan: The Institute for healthcare? Ah, improvement! The Ihi is a very highly respected organization within the healthcare industry. And um it came across with its ah joy and work initiative, probably about two years ago, maybe a little bit longer, and they come at, how to improve that work environment from the perspective of looking at your quality initiatives and taking care of what they turn the pebbles in the shoe,

00:46:45.210 --> 00:46:56.120 Phyllis Quinlan: you know, like the things that annoy you like, you know. If you could just come to work and do your job, that would be fine. But you have to put up with all this other extraneous distractions and irritations,

00:46:56.130 --> 00:47:14.870 Phyllis Quinlan: and they say that the focus needs to be put on those extraneous things, and then you will be able to then be more joyful at work. It wouldn't be such a stress and strain. But again, my colleagues at the Association of critical care. Nurses came out long ago

00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:25.629 Phyllis Quinlan: with what they what they term the six pillars of a healthy work environment, and they say that a healthy work. Environment is comprised of skilled communication

00:47:25.640 --> 00:47:39.490 Phyllis Quinlan: through collaboration, adequate staffing, authentic leadership, meaningful recognition and effective decision making. Now that's powerful, and you can use that as a blueprint.

00:47:39.500 --> 00:48:03.459 Phyllis Quinlan: Um! And really take a look at. Where is your department? Start local and go broader. Where is your department? What are the communication issues, you know. Are you truly collaborating, or is it a power struggle? Are you working in silos? You know? How are you, you know? Do you have adequate staffing and not just numbers of nurses. But you know I'm really seeing that there are,

00:48:03.470 --> 00:48:28.729 Phyllis Quinlan: you know, there were support staff that we seem to have done away with at some point managed care. I think kind of did away with that and the computers. So i'm just going to say a shout out to administrative assistance across the country. My God, there's not enough of you, and I don't know what I would do without you, but because now we all have our own Pcs. In our office or our laptops.

00:48:28.740 --> 00:48:58.469 Phyllis Quinlan: We're not only expected to do the nursing piece, but now we have to do the paperwork piece, create the charts, upload data into certain things, and those I'm not sure. That's the best use of nursing out quite honestly. So do we need to go back to an administrative school administrative assistant pool, where we can awful work to people who can help support what we're doing, so that we can spend nursing hours in a very different way as opposed to. I need to learn this new program

00:48:59.530 --> 00:49:29.049 Phyllis Quinlan: and not be, and and it takes away from my opportunity to round on my unit, or be with my patients, or be with my staff. So you know it's not just numbers of staff. It's the right step doing the right job that we really need to focus on. And then we're looking at authentic, you know. Um, excuse me, meaningful recognition. So you know, are we are, we, you know, really promoting people, so that the the recognition is felt every time you recognize someone. It should deepen

00:49:29.060 --> 00:49:33.489 their sense of belonging to that organization. It shouldn't be just the

00:49:33.860 --> 00:49:48.999 Phyllis Quinlan: you know what I mean. That's not enough. And you're You're wasting a tremendous opportunity to say to that person in five sentences or less what you did contributed to everybody's benefit, especially the patients benefit.

00:49:49.200 --> 00:49:59.269 Phyllis Quinlan: And then you deepen their sense of belonging to that organization, and when people feel they belong someplace. They're going to think twice about moving on,

00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:28.940 Phyllis Quinlan: because that's such a rare thing to feel, and then effective decision making. And I think we're making good strides in these things, because we now have healthcare organizations that are embracing what we call the magnet program, and the magnet program for lack of a better reference is like the good housekeeping zeal of crew on nursing and the nursing structure within that organization. But what that program really reports is they want shared governance. They want acknowledgment that nurses are

00:50:28.950 --> 00:50:31.310 highly educated, highly skilled,

00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:52.790 Phyllis Quinlan: highly trained, highly dedicated, and are creative, and that they should own their own environment and come up with creative solutions, and we want to tap into that talent to create an inclusive environment again, anchoring that sense of belonging not just to your profession and yourself, but to that organization. And I think we're doing really good work in that

00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:00.459 Phyllis Quinlan: where I think we're falling short, and where I think the discussion has not gone further, and where, I think I lend

00:51:00.470 --> 00:51:21.470 Phyllis Quinlan: my voice now into the conversation about healthy work. Environment is the issue of disruptive behavior, specifically bullying in civility, and I want to share with you that during the shorts Um center Podcast, the person who was representing the Ana foundation

00:51:21.640 --> 00:51:25.040 Phyllis Quinlan: reported that

00:51:26.650 --> 00:51:37.909 Phyllis Quinlan: a significant number of nurses reported that they were working in a healthy, unhealthy work environment that only forty two percent of the nurses reported that they worked in a healthy work environment.

00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:51.189 Phyllis Quinlan: You do the math. That's what fifty eight percent said. Otherwise, right? So. But here's the one that's of concern. Sixty percent of the respondents reported that they experienced bullying and incivility within the last year.

00:51:51.810 --> 00:51:54.689 Phyllis Quinlan: Now we need to get our arms around this,

00:51:54.700 --> 00:52:04.050 Phyllis Quinlan: and I certainly understand that no one likes to talk about behavior or lean into behavior, except our beloved colleagues in behavioral health.

00:52:04.210 --> 00:52:10.399 Phyllis Quinlan: But the reason why they feel in such command of this subject is because that's what they've studied,

00:52:10.410 --> 00:52:40.359 Phyllis Quinlan: you know. Um, I can tell you, in the emergency department. If I said to a nurse, do you want four gunshot wounds or one person with a behavioral health issue. They're going to say i'll take the assignment with the four gunshot ones, and it's not because of anything other than that's where their competency lies. We don't do enough training and understanding about behavior, let alone. So we need to be comfortable with having crucial conversations. We need to get comfortable in.

00:52:40.370 --> 00:52:47.000 Phyllis Quinlan: Understand how the mindset of a bully which is really a narcissist, works,

00:52:47.010 --> 00:53:09.600 Phyllis Quinlan: how they are going to use disruptive conversation of possible deniability and gas lighting to confuse and confound. We need to have training around this, so that our middle managers and other managers are together in understanding what's going on. They can identify quickly, and they can

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:25.259 Phyllis Quinlan: then address it better. We need to put real boundaries around disruptive behavior, immensibility and just. In short, incivility is defined as that person who, if they called in sick, you know you're going to have a better day.

00:53:25.270 --> 00:53:43.520 Phyllis Quinlan: Their behavior is so annoying, it's so draining. It's so disruptive it's so distracting, and they just suck all the air out of the room, and we and they don't get their work done. So now they work dumps on you, and it's just like, Why am I here? They get paid this. Why am I here?

00:53:43.810 --> 00:54:03.399 Phyllis Quinlan: So if we don't get our arms around. First of all, those great six pillars offered by Aac, but also really sincerely commit to addressing the issue of disruptive behavior in the in terms of creating a healthier work environment where talent feels they belong and they thrive.

00:54:03.830 --> 00:54:10.199 Phyllis Quinlan: Then I think we're going to have some. We're not going to fully address the issue unless we do that.

00:54:10.310 --> 00:54:27.689 Phyllis Quinlan: Now, here's a situation, Phyllis. My God! Literally this could have been in itself another two hours show. But we're two minutes still closing, but I can see now what that survey was, showing that a lot of nurses are leaving for a better pathway to continue doing what they love doing

00:54:27.700 --> 00:54:40.299 Phyllis Quinlan: exactly so. I think that message perfectly. It's just a shame that our organizational structures are still a little antiquated where it is. It's it's reading and and and reinforcing the perception that nursing is

00:54:40.310 --> 00:55:05.079 Frank R. Harrison: not as much of a priority as it is, and should be considered so. The thing that i'm noticing is that maybe one aspect for the viewers and listeners to take away from this episode is that as the nurses, the the sixty seven percent of nurses that are planning and leaving in three years are leaving. They probably should be leaving to get hold of the culture that they want to thrive in

00:55:05.150 --> 00:55:07.190 Phyllis Quinlan: rather than yes, something to say.

00:55:07.200 --> 00:55:35.139 Phyllis Quinlan: So. I think I think we have an opportunity to create a culture where nurses work at the top of their license. I think we have an opportunity to make sure that the hours that nurses spend are on nursing issues and not paperwork and other things. I think we have an opportunity to really strengthen our leaders, so that they understand they need to be visible, and and they need to round, and they need to listen firsthand to the staff what are their needs and concerns? You don't want somebody telling you

00:55:35.150 --> 00:55:59.710 Phyllis Quinlan: You don't need a survey telling you if you're relying on surveys to tell you about what your staff needs. You have dropped the ball big time. You need to get out there and round and have a cup of coffee and talk to them yourself, seeing me. That's that authentic leadership that is that essential pillar. I I just really think that we need to and understand that nursing is the most trusted profession in the country,

00:55:59.720 --> 00:56:17.979 Phyllis Quinlan: and I want your listeners, despite other things that are out there. I want your listeners to understand that your trust is not misplaced. We are dealing with shortages. We are working collaboratively with leaders and great thought leaders, and we will get our arms around this as we have gotten our wrongs around it.

00:56:17.990 --> 00:56:22.310 Frank R. Harrison: Yes, and getting my arms around you right now as you sign up,

00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:39.519 Frank R. Harrison: I want to say I will definitely see you next week on our next episode of Frank about health, Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for staying tuned for this very insightful hour, where Phyllis and I were able to talk about one of the key essential professions in the health care

00:56:39.710 --> 00:56:42.149 Frank R. Harrison: industry, I mean

00:56:42.170 --> 00:57:01.360 Frank R. Harrison: we we, we'll have other episodes talking about the others. But nursing is priority, one that all being said, stay tuned for tomorrow's shows, which are philanthropy and focus and always Friday right here on talk radio and Nyc. And we'll be back next week. Thank you for staying to right here on talk radio at Nyc. And Facebook live signing off.

00:57:01.370 --> 00:57:02.390 Have a good night.

00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:03.890 Phyllis Quinlan: Goodnight. Thank you, Frank.

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