Employment Law Today

Tuesday, March 29, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/03/29 - Employers - STAND UP!

Facebook Live Video from 2022/03/29 - Employers - STAND UP!


2022/03/29 - Employers - STAND UP!


The audience will learn concrete ways for organizations to improve their ergonomics, and to change their workplace culture to a place where employees are encouraged to stand up and move more– thus improving their health, their morale, and their productivity and focus. Employers will learn the benefits to their company of implementing such changes from the sit-at-your-desk-all-day model of work.

How can reducing your employees’ prolonged sitting at work improve their physical and mental health, increase productivity for your business, raise morale, and enhance employees’ focus on their work? What shift in workplace culture must happen to make more movement, less sitting, and other ergonomics a part of your employees’ work environment?

On Tuesday, March 29 on Employment Law Today, my guest will be Dr. Stefan Zavalin, Founder of Love to Move. Want a taste of what we’ll be talking about? 

Check out Stefan’s amazing TED Talk, and tune in Tuesday, March 29 from 5 pm to 6 pm (EST) to TalkRadio.NYC (Talking Alternative Broadcasting) to hear more!

Tune in for this informative conversation at or watch the Facebook Livestream by Clicking Here.

Show Notes

Segment 1

Starting off tonight’s episode, Eric Sarver introduces his guest Stefan Zavalin, founder of Love to Move. Stefan gives his birthday wishes to Eric who’s birthday was on March 28! Today’s topic is about the wellness of employers and employees and the benefits of moving more and sitting less in the workplace. Stefan talks about how we didn’t realize his love for movement. Fitness worked its way into his life where he studied kinesiology. When thinking about grad school, he found physical therapy and occupational therapy as his two choices. In his first semester, he got a parasite in his eye and unfortunately lost his vision. Though, he was able to finish grad school. But his vision affected his work and was unable to help patients the way he wanted to. After going through covid himself, Stefan knew that he didn’t want to go back to desk work and this was when Love to Move came to be. Eric also asks Stefan about what factors in the workplace he believes leads to prolonged sitting and whether it's a problem that a company should address. He says employers should care as it factors into stress, work overload, culture design and more.

Segment 2

Eric brings up the issue of how prolonged sitting can affect your health and wellbeing. Stefan elborates about what a prolonged day of sitting looks like. When we think about a typical workday, we usually sit about 30 minutes for breakfast, commute, in the dining room. In total, Stefan says that there's about 7-13 hours a day of sitting. He mentions the risk of cardiovascular disease for sitting 8 hours a day as well as anxiety and depression. But he says that it doesn’t mean that it’s completely bad or unnecessary to sit during the day. Though it adds up when you think about all of the activities that we do sitting down. Stefan brings up exercise as something beneficial. He says that it's really about habits. Eric asks Stefan how employers foster this kind of culture. He says to build the habit and then you can buy a standing desk. He says that employers can implement things like a 15 minute meeting where it is a “standing only” meeting. What’s also better is to work in groups of 10-20 people as well as ask questions to employees about what moving and standing looks like for them. This is the kind of work Stefan does with Love to Move when helping transform a work environment. Stefan also talks about the difference between encouraging and facilitating.

Segment 3

Stefan talks more about working on building a habit of sitting less which is possible without expensive gadgets or apps. Eric discusses more about building habits like we do when exercising rather than going straight into standing or exercising for long periods of time. Motivations and finding out what works for you is something Stefan says is important. Stefans speaks about employers finding out what connections employees have with their activities and decisions that motivate them which can benefit both the employer and employee.

Segment 4

Coming back from the final break, Eric asks Stefan how does Love to Move distinguish itself from other firms or organizations that stress movement and ergonomics? He says that many companies have an ergonomics team. The problem he says is that the farthest that companies will go to is the set up a standing desk and not working on habits. Stefan says that he tries to work on the culture and habit piece of this. He gives an example that if everyone in the zoom meeting is standing, it cultivates that team environment of building a habit. You can visit where you can find his contact information like social media, learn about Love to Move and also fill out a form if you want to ask or chat with him! He also has a book called Sit Less which you can also find on his website as well as Amazon.


00:00:39.180 --> 00:00:46.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Good evening, welcome to employment law today i'm your host erick solver i'm an employment law business law attorney.

00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:47.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I host this.

00:00:47.460 --> 00:00:55.170 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Live weekly talk radio show, and this video broadcast every Tuesday night from 5pm to 6pm Eastern standard time.

00:00:55.500 --> 00:01:03.120 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Where I have guests, to talk about some of the most novel and interesting and relevant topics for employers and business owners.

00:01:03.450 --> 00:01:09.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: often related to employment law to business and to aspects of the employer employee relationship.

00:01:09.870 --> 00:01:27.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And in that spirit tonight i'm very pleased to have with us a guest, who has a really interesting and important topic that many of us may not even be thinking about on a day to day basis and that guest is doctors to find Devlin Stefan welcome to the show.

00:01:28.020 --> 00:01:33.450 Stefan Zavalin: Thank you for having me, I am so excited I get to be on the week of the host birthday, that is.

00:01:34.110 --> 00:01:34.770 Stefan Zavalin: over the moon.

00:01:34.950 --> 00:01:36.870 Stefan Zavalin: so happy birthday, but also excited to be here.

00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:45.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Oh, thank you, thank you so much to find, yes, as I mentioned, for our viewers tonight yesterday march 20 was indeed my birthday, it was my.

00:01:46.710 --> 00:01:50.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: birthday hey what happened, the mute button when I when I mentioned the years but what's going on here.

00:01:51.900 --> 00:02:01.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I guess my age remains a mystery, but now it was a great birthday, is a great fun time with family or friends took a day off and back in a salad today, so thank you for that Stefan I appreciate it.

00:02:02.370 --> 00:02:15.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah and we're on a good sandwich topic today of our health as employers, employees, so i'm going to introduce defined in just a moment, but our topic tonight is called employers stand out.

00:02:16.650 --> 00:02:25.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Or, as I think rem put it really well stand in a place where you work now face West, and you know we're talking about how many employers recognize.

00:02:25.710 --> 00:02:35.040 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The importance of employee wellness to exercise often they offer discounts on gym memberships or fitness consultants for their employees.

00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:49.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And there's, of course, a stress and understanding of economic ergonomics, rather than the workplace economic to ergonomics from better back support and chairs to customize monitors all of in gaining traction in the workplace as well.

00:02:50.460 --> 00:03:00.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But what about the benefits of moving more and sitting less and what is the harm that a workplace involving too much hitting can do to your employees, physical and mental health.

00:03:01.290 --> 00:03:10.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Along with the harm to their productivity morale and focus the answer lies in not just providing resources visiting less such as standing desks.

00:03:11.310 --> 00:03:19.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But rather requires a shift in the workplace culture from encouraging walk and talk calls and meetings to standing while working.

00:03:19.410 --> 00:03:29.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And the need for moving more into the left is especially relevant in today's changing remote and hybrid workforce where employees might be sluggish anxious fatigue.

00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:38.490 Eric Sarver, Esq.: or any pain from remote workers, maybe sitting on their couch like this, or the beanbag chairs so it's really I think a great topic and.

00:03:38.850 --> 00:03:48.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: On today's episode of employment law today i'm joined by, as I mentioned, Dr Stefan zombieland a movement mentor driven to change desk work work culture.

00:03:48.930 --> 00:03:58.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stefan and I will discuss concrete ways organizations to improve ergonomics, and the change in the workplace culture to a place where employees are encouraged to stand up.

00:03:59.130 --> 00:04:07.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: for their health, their well being and their productivity so once against define really great to have you on the show tonight.

00:04:08.370 --> 00:04:15.660 Stefan Zavalin: Oh it's my pleasure, I love talking about this stuff I think a lot of what you already said is important, I think many employers might say, well.

00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:26.880 Stefan Zavalin: You know I got those big monitors or I got the standing desks, but okay well are there other things that we could be doing that are actually more important for the long term, I think that's what we're going to be getting more and more into.

00:04:27.690 --> 00:04:36.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Absolutely is divine out yes absolutely that's right, I agree with you there hundred percent and Just to give you a proper introduction to our audience get to know you a little better.

00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:44.430 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And my guest this evening is Dr Stefan zeitlin he is a movement mentor driven to change desk work culture.

00:04:44.910 --> 00:04:55.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Despite losing his vision in graduate school he started a company called love to move where he mentors organizations on adapting company culture to improve productivity and health.

00:04:56.130 --> 00:05:04.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The dream to evolve, the current work model so people no longer have to choose between their work and their health, I like that that's a great dream.

00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:10.740 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stefan aims to make virtual services accessible to all, to help this crowd cultural shifts.

00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:19.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Since starting on his mission to find has written a book called sit less and he's given a Ted talk, I was tom's traffic on the same subject.

00:05:19.590 --> 00:05:27.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And in his free time he likes to write songs on piano and guitar critique other cup of coffee and play board games with his wife and friends.

00:05:27.630 --> 00:05:34.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Oh right that was really just again I think we're like in my feeling is positive energy, you know I get that vibe I see you on different.

00:05:35.400 --> 00:05:37.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We have some connections, I think, on some.

00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:50.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Different clubhouse where there's a weekly panel discussion that united been on it for people called the hot seat back lance NAB and I think we're ready to roll here so So let me ask you first question, if I may.

00:05:51.090 --> 00:06:02.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A fun question is, if you could just tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself, like, for example, what prompted you to found your company love to move.

00:06:03.270 --> 00:06:09.360 Stefan Zavalin: Short, so this is something that I, I didn't realize my true love for for movement for a long time.

00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:13.140 Stefan Zavalin: When I was a little kid I used to climb trees and I love movement my mom always brings that up.

00:06:13.470 --> 00:06:18.450 Stefan Zavalin: And I had a lot during high school where I went way into music and I was going to play an orchestra so that was the dream.

00:06:18.750 --> 00:06:29.400 Stefan Zavalin: And that's what I actually started going to undergrad for, but then I sort of found myself finding that the passion for music was just to play music I didn't want to necessarily be in orchestras I didn't want to study and get a degree in it.

00:06:29.850 --> 00:06:36.270 Stefan Zavalin: and fitness had worked its way into my life I got my undergraduate degree in kinesiology effectively exercise science.

00:06:36.510 --> 00:06:39.090 Stefan Zavalin: And my parents said, what about what about Grad school.

00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:45.090 Stefan Zavalin: And I thought I don't I don't know what to do with this degree for Grad school, let me look at what's what's out there.

00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:49.530 Stefan Zavalin: And I found physical therapy was basically physical therapy and occupational therapy were the two choices.

00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:56.760 Stefan Zavalin: And I said physical therapy you get paid to do this, this is amazing, I want to do this, and so I went fully in and.

00:06:57.180 --> 00:07:10.080 Stefan Zavalin: Like you said, because a lot of people double double check this first semester of Grad school I ended up getting a parasite in my eye, which resulted in me losing my vision it's a very, very long and fun story, but.

00:07:10.950 --> 00:07:18.780 Stefan Zavalin: find the sense of interesting not fun, in the sense of I had a good time, let me, let me make that part clear, but I was able to finally finish off.

00:07:19.290 --> 00:07:31.170 Stefan Zavalin: Grad school I got my doctorate and then I wanted to the clinic because of my vision, I was kind of pulled towards something called manual therapy, which means the hands on kind of therapy and, as I was working with patients I realized.

00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:45.180 Stefan Zavalin: i'm not having the impact I would want I only do one on one I can't have a bigger impact, and it was after several years of working that my vision had gotten progressively worse worse worse and I finally said that's it, you know I need to start doing something else.

00:07:45.510 --> 00:07:48.540 Stefan Zavalin: And so I started having this idea of Okay, we need to adapt.

00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:59.190 Stefan Zavalin: The general environment and the culture around how we do desk work, not just giving people exercises because I would give people exercise, I will tell them to go talk to their boss, so they have to have something else and.

00:07:59.700 --> 00:08:06.870 Stefan Zavalin: People don't really end up taking the initiative, most of the time we kind of go well if it's not hurting me right now i'm not really going to pay attention to to that issue.

00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:15.390 Stefan Zavalin: But that's the problem with chronic back pain is that it comes on after years and years of you doing the wrong thing and I kind of got a little kick.

00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:26.580 Stefan Zavalin: I actually got coven right around the time that I was having this idea and that kind of put me out of the clinic for a bit longer because I had complications of heart pain, when I stood up for more than 15 minutes.

00:08:26.970 --> 00:08:36.000 Stefan Zavalin: Oh, and i'm all better now but, but that it took me out of the clinic for about a month and a half and honestly, by the time that was over, I was thinking.

00:08:36.420 --> 00:08:48.060 Stefan Zavalin: I don't want to go back to the clinic I know what I need to be doing, I know that I need to start reaching out to more people and start changing this mindset around how we do desk work and that's kind of where love to move was was born is.

00:08:48.780 --> 00:09:01.410 Stefan Zavalin: reaching out through that and having a bigger bigger reach that's why the book happened that's why the Ted talk happened is so that more and more people are hearing this idea of how we need to be reducing our sitting as opposed to just exercising more all the time.

00:09:02.670 --> 00:09:09.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: wow got it it's like you know I hear interesting things there Stefan they could send a piece out there a tease out relate to it's like a year the.

00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:17.340 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right to you know going in with BBC one passion in music, but then realizing wasn't maybe your calling in life.

00:09:18.030 --> 00:09:28.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it's interesting a lot of people can identify with that, as their background, but then finding exercise and finding the movements that is exercise science that you call that I can get paid for this.

00:09:29.520 --> 00:09:38.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: what's interesting is that you know you talked about you talked about to with a very challenging situations both which sound, you know arguably hardships like losing your vision which.

00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:47.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: As you said, it's definitely not you know fun and experience sorry for that experience for you, but then like from that right comes that shift that.

00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:52.590 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Certain form they get your shift from the physical therapy realm to the.

00:09:53.040 --> 00:10:01.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: focus on movement and study of the word, culture and then you mentioned that having coven having that put you out of the clinic for a month and a half and then really focusing on your.

00:10:01.770 --> 00:10:10.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your company, I guess, my takeaways there are just like you know noticing how you know we can have hardships our life that may seem.

00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:21.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like a really hard rough difficult deal, but something good can come with them the silver lining I think you kind of you know, like live that like you exemplify that so i'm Hats off to him that.

00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:25.770 Stefan Zavalin: I think you're absolutely right, because.

00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:32.400 Stefan Zavalin: A lot of people could look at it and those were to kind of disastrous events and but in a way.

00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:42.030 Stefan Zavalin: I would have never probably started the but not never, but I would have probably been years and years down the road that I would have started the business if I hadn't gotten coven and I didn't have that kind of immediate of well, what do I do now.

00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:47.610 Stefan Zavalin: You already had this plan, the idea was already I kind of was thinking about it for a couple months at that point, I just went all in.

00:10:48.060 --> 00:10:58.770 Stefan Zavalin: And in terms of my vision, the silver lining was the most apparent to me when I did my Ted talk, something that people don't know is, you have to memorize a script for the Ted talk you write a script I wrote like 27 different ones, it was.

00:10:58.830 --> 00:10:59.370 Stefan Zavalin: It was a lot.

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.390 Stefan Zavalin: But you have to then memorize it you don't you can just add live a Ted talk.

00:11:04.020 --> 00:11:05.070 Stefan Zavalin: And a lot of the speakers.

00:11:05.070 --> 00:11:13.890 Stefan Zavalin: Were struggling, because they would practice for the script and so when they actually had to do it, they were relying on it too much, given my vision, I never had the ability to practice, while reading the script.

00:11:14.100 --> 00:11:15.390 Stefan Zavalin: I had to memorize it.

00:11:15.630 --> 00:11:21.930 Stefan Zavalin: yeah so that was a huge step up for me, because I was, I was just ready with it right off the BAT.

00:11:22.590 --> 00:11:29.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: wow another example of again, you know, a something that seems hard that can actually maybe have that beneficial a benefit to it and.

00:11:29.910 --> 00:11:34.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I heard your Ted talk it's a great one I I put it in the link in the newsletter for the radio station to people.

00:11:35.520 --> 00:11:43.830 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Hopefully, people can hear until we can get to that a little bit later, but but good to have that you know that background, there and what problem you're found love to move.

00:11:44.730 --> 00:11:54.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know I I wanted to ask you, because we're flowing nicely, so I can get to another question before our commercial break and we can come back to it if we need to but, like the idea of you know what are some.

00:11:55.470 --> 00:12:06.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: common factors in the workplace, that leads to this unhealthy level of prolonged sitting and part B of that question is like, is this really a problem that's worth a company's time to address.

00:12:08.190 --> 00:12:15.330 Stefan Zavalin: Sure, and this is this is kind of an interesting an interesting thought so i'll answer the part B before we get to the part A.

00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:22.080 Stefan Zavalin: Because I think, as we were talking about coven in a way covert has been in the pandemic and the shutdown has been an interesting way to.

00:12:22.380 --> 00:12:29.640 Stefan Zavalin: pull out this idea that we probably need to shift work towards remote and hybrid kind of options we have that ability for desk work.

00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:35.400 Stefan Zavalin: We, we were able to adapt, that was the pandemic was definitely this catalyst for that kind of a movement.

00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:41.790 Stefan Zavalin: I don't know if there will be necessarily such a catalyst for this sedentary overly.

00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:47.520 Stefan Zavalin: Just prolonged sitting kind of culture around desk work that's really going to be quite as impactful.

00:12:47.730 --> 00:12:58.620 Stefan Zavalin: But the idea is the long term effects are absolutely there and the issue is that if we're thinking that an hour of exercise reduces the effects of sitting more than 11 hours a day it doesn't not.

00:12:59.970 --> 00:13:09.900 Stefan Zavalin: Well, is it reduces it does not reverse you're still going to have your issues from doing that and we can't keep asking employees, just to do more and more outside of company time.

00:13:10.050 --> 00:13:10.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: there's just.

00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:19.260 Stefan Zavalin: there's really not enough time around that so in terms of should employers care about it absolutely because this affects it.

00:13:19.710 --> 00:13:33.840 Stefan Zavalin: way down the road, because if we think about people that are overly stressed overworked and their physiology isn't behaving the way it needs to, and then you ask them to perform something superbly and work amazingly that's that's asking too much.

00:13:34.050 --> 00:13:44.880 Stefan Zavalin: And so the factors, just to be really quick on them, the three things that I noticed it's usually culture habits and then design is something about like the physical environment and design that usually is lacking.

00:13:45.540 --> 00:13:50.520 Eric Sarver, Esq.: um coach your habits and design yeah I know you're saying you raise a good point that's defined it's like.

00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:59.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: We had some catalyst to people, maybe to get more into like technology right everyone wanted to vote or I should say that everyone most people a lot of people are remote and.

00:14:00.300 --> 00:14:08.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: People were kind of pushed to learn how to use zoom or webex other video virtual mediums to communicate.

00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:19.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: But there's not much here saying we're a catalyst for people, especially on their own to go from you know say over sitting to just going to get moving and standing and so forth, so.

00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:25.950 Eric Sarver, Esq.: interesting point there it's like what does that catalyst and that's another reason, I think, why is there a problem for for companies.

00:14:26.280 --> 00:14:36.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you know when you mentioned, like the though it's worth their time to address like because of the effect on people's you know, productivity and and the idea that when I heard you say.

00:14:37.410 --> 00:14:47.130 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it's important to that besides like you know a lot of people, I think, and myself included, honestly i've been in this camp before you know i'm an attorney i'm a lawyer, so I sit, very often a lot.

00:14:47.670 --> 00:14:52.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: At my desk you know, like get my computer i'm on the phone when i'm writing reading.

00:14:52.770 --> 00:15:01.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I all stand in going to court or the lately arbitrations i've been an mediations have been done virtually so you're sitting, so what I, I think.

00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:09.780 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I kind of immediate told myself that because I wasn't exercising you know going to the gym every other day, getting some walks in.

00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:16.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It carries it, but what i'm hearing you say is you know it doesn't like it's definitely helpful exercise, but other than that sizing.

00:15:17.070 --> 00:15:22.710 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you have some movement, but if you work out for an hour or 45 minutes, and then you sit for nine it's.

00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:35.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The sittings to harmful, so I think that's an important point for our listeners who might be like me at home thinking well I get to the gym you know i'm on the elliptical you know i'm on the bike stretching so good point you know.

00:15:36.540 --> 00:15:41.790 Stefan Zavalin: And I never want people to misconstrue that exercise is still fantastic for you there's.

00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:50.880 Stefan Zavalin: a wonderful YouTube video that was posted long ago and it's I think it's called 23 and a half hours or something like that, but it basically it's a doctor that goes through all the physiological benefits.

00:15:51.090 --> 00:15:57.270 Stefan Zavalin: of spending that 30 minutes a day exercising out of the 24 hours and 23 and a half hours, and you can do whatever you want.

00:15:57.540 --> 00:16:04.800 Stefan Zavalin: There are a lot of benefits for you, but we just I think that we take that and we overlook what sitting is really doing to us and.

00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:16.050 Stefan Zavalin: A lot of my approach, I do not push for people to do exercises because that's not scalable you can't ask people to stand up from their desk all the time and take breaks all the time, to a degree, yes, we start with that.

00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:24.990 Stefan Zavalin: But it has to be about adapting how we're doing the work so maybe we're doing it in standing maybe we're having meetings, while we're walking it's about doing the exact same work.

00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:36.450 Stefan Zavalin: Not taking time off of work but you're doing the same work just you're sitting less and that's the whole book title is sit less that's why I didn't call it move more is because we need to have that distinction or minds.

00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:50.880 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah I love to come back to that point we're at our first commercial break so folks he was everyone out there, listening to or watching employment law today i'm your host erick Sabra my guest tonight doctors to funds Evelyn.

00:16:51.930 --> 00:16:57.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: of love to move and movement manager and expert when we come back we'll talk more about this.

00:16:58.230 --> 00:17:13.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: shift in the workplace culture to foster facilitate employees sitting less and moving more almost never the other way around, and we're talking about why it's important, so this thing to talk me down yc stick around commercial break be right back.

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00:19:26.970 --> 00:19:36.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law today i'm your host Eric solver i'm an employment law business law attorney here tonight with my guest Dr stefan's Evelyn.

00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:45.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: founder of love to move and Stephen read a book and the great Ted talk on the benefits of.

00:19:46.230 --> 00:19:54.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sitting less and moving more and the emphasis on sitting list like being key that you know we can exercise which as defined set is wonderful.

00:19:54.570 --> 00:20:03.660 Eric Sarver, Esq.: and has health benefits and benefits to our focus and our mind and body, but the sitting prolongs me as a harmful thing I think that's when we can get into.

00:20:04.620 --> 00:20:11.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know stuff and it's funny before I guess another question like i'll just i'll share with you, maybe this kind of actually like relates to.

00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:19.110 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The question we might cover like I in booking you for the show and going over questions thinking about you coming on tonight.

00:20:19.620 --> 00:20:27.300 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I got to my office in the city and today and, where I come now about two or three days of the week, and the other two videos from home, so I got here.

00:20:28.230 --> 00:20:38.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I looked around like and I saw that you know, I have a standing desk it was right in the corner at some books and some other things stacked on top of it like is it like a makeshift shelf and that.

00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:50.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I was using before the pandemic kit and then in the dynamic was working from home very suddenly my wife work from home it we're kind of balancing that we were juggling room to room, as we were raising.

00:20:50.820 --> 00:20:56.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Our son, with a time dependent extract was then seven months old is now two and a half and then two.

00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:04.320 Eric Sarver, Esq.: months later, but so I just left it in the side of my office and i've seen it every day come in my office oh there it is.

00:21:05.040 --> 00:21:13.620 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Today I dusted off, you know for for us and I used it when I was working and I use it, I was standing on taking some phone calls extending while typing.

00:21:14.580 --> 00:21:23.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So i'm gonna have to say, you know the it definitely doesn't come naturally I think most of us just tend to sit a lot, so can you like walk us through like some.

00:21:23.790 --> 00:21:37.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Maybe a common good Barbie day of let's say like a worker like Alice in your Ted talk of what is the prologue they have sitting look like and what men do to somebody in terms of their mind and body, if you can.

00:21:37.590 --> 00:21:46.110 Stefan Zavalin: Absolutely, and may I say that I am I am so happy that we were talking about catalyst that I was technically a tiny little catalyst to get you to look at your standing desk again.

00:21:47.010 --> 00:21:55.350 Stefan Zavalin: that's that's my dream that's all I want to do is to help people really look at that a little bit more, but realistically if we think about typical workday.

00:21:55.920 --> 00:22:03.990 Stefan Zavalin: Most of the time commuter no commute people you wake up people usually sit about the average, this is a US averages 30 minutes.

00:22:04.350 --> 00:22:12.120 Stefan Zavalin: For breakfast communities, usually 30 minutes, most of us have our commute As for my dining room to our living room maybe it takes a little bit less than that, but we.

00:22:12.120 --> 00:22:21.030 Stefan Zavalin: Usually sit that entire time for that extra hour until we actually have to get on usually it's about seven hours of sitting for desk jobs is what people kind of get into.

00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:29.160 Stefan Zavalin: And then you have your 30 minute commute back and then most of the time people sit for an hour for dinner and three hours afterwards when when they're kind of watching everything.

00:22:29.970 --> 00:22:43.560 Stefan Zavalin: I go through this fun math on the Ted talk as well, but essentially that looks at something like 13 hours a day now, why is that really bad, the issue is that at around six hours of sitting we have increased risk of anxiety and depression.

00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:55.110 Stefan Zavalin: Eight hours doubles our risk of cardiovascular disease, and this is we're talking throughout the day so eight hours doubles cardiovascular risk which cardiovascular disease was still the number one killer.

00:22:55.410 --> 00:23:01.860 Stefan Zavalin: Even during the pandemic in the United States, so it's a very much an important thing now the good news about those two numbers.

00:23:02.070 --> 00:23:03.330 Stefan Zavalin: reversed with exercise.

00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:12.480 Stefan Zavalin: So, as long as you have a good, healthy exercise you're fine i'm not trying to push people to sit that much less than eight hours if you sit less than eight hours wow good job great for you.

00:23:12.870 --> 00:23:18.570 Stefan Zavalin: Now we're we're getting past the 11 hour mark that gets to be our issue is after 11 hours, it seems like.

00:23:19.170 --> 00:23:29.340 Stefan Zavalin: it's not really reversed with exercise all those impacts on the cardiovascular system on our overall physiology and psychology in the sense of that the mental health of anxiety and depression.

00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:45.630 Stefan Zavalin: yeah so that's where we need to start kind of chungking a lot of that stuff down and in terms of Alice a lot of what what ended up happening is finding those ways of how do we adapt it do we do zoom call standing up I wear the proud mantle of only sitting for two zoom calls last year.

00:23:45.930 --> 00:23:58.800 Stefan Zavalin: And I will say that I don't have a standing desk so it's not as if you have to have a standing desk I use a pile of textbooks don't tell my professors, but that's exactly what they're being used for put up my my monitor.

00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:00.060 Stefan Zavalin: It doesn't mean I never sit.

00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:06.450 Stefan Zavalin: I just moved the books and then the I use them as a foot rest probably shouldn't have said that my professors are not gonna be happy about that either, but.

00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:14.940 Stefan Zavalin: that's the reality of it when i'm on the phone I, this is my nature, I can't sit and talk on the phone I stand up and I paste that's just the way that I do it.

00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:24.030 Stefan Zavalin: But I bring all this together to say, one that didn't come right off the BAT for me that that also time to form the habits and it's really about habits.

00:24:24.510 --> 00:24:32.940 Stefan Zavalin: The fact that you came into your office and you saw the standing desk it's because there wasn't necessarily a built up habit of this is just how I do work, and this is what I use.

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:33.420 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right.

00:24:33.510 --> 00:24:37.500 Stefan Zavalin: So immediately it feels like a host this extra thing I have to do it's over.

00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.440 Stefan Zavalin: From I don't think about zoom calls and, if I have to stand up or not.

00:24:40.770 --> 00:24:45.840 Stefan Zavalin: My setup sort of some of the ring lights and things like that they're already only in the standing position.

00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:48.180 Stefan Zavalin: So the more work for me to sit down.

00:24:48.300 --> 00:24:57.990 Stefan Zavalin: So there you go the habit formation is right there, and this is the kind of stuff that I try to walk people through and help them through, and then the love to move mechanics.

00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:06.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: wow it's interesting it's like you know you're talking about those statistics, even those numbers which I, you know fully take your word unbelievable i'm at the six hours of sitting.

00:25:06.840 --> 00:25:13.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: With the anxiety depression and the hours and the cardiovascular effects and 11 and 13 and and you know I think it's important to note that.

00:25:13.710 --> 00:25:16.860 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Whether you work an eight hour day as a 10 hour day and nine hour day.

00:25:17.190 --> 00:25:28.170 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like the sitting is not just what you do a word, it also you have to add that to, as you pointed out, you know you sit at dinner, and you said, while watching TV while watching netflix right.

00:25:28.860 --> 00:25:35.610 Eric Sarver, Esq.: you've raised to be point watching netflix standing up with some some might but it's rare and then they're sitting at breakfast and the commute so.

00:25:36.030 --> 00:25:42.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think it's like all the more reason for that important shift and yeah and she talked about habits and.

00:25:43.290 --> 00:25:49.440 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I was interested that you use the books and I think your vendors, to be glad to know that hey you know what those books event to increase.

00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:58.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: improve your life and give you value so if you're doing so as a desk it's great I just think it's nice for our audience know that you don't have to go out and buy.

00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:06.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A standing desk you can, but you can use something make sure books, you know or something to that nature to raise your monitor and it's.

00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:17.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah cuz I thought about doing the show standing, but my desk in my office and I was moving to a conference room, because there was a thrill gathering by my office I outside the office there, so I thought, let me just but.

00:26:17.790 --> 00:26:25.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like but you know it's good to know that you, you mentioned a good point there about you know, building a culture and I guess brings you, to the question which is.

00:26:26.280 --> 00:26:30.210 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, I was going to ask you like, and I think I know the answer is providing standing desk.

00:26:30.750 --> 00:26:44.160 Eric Sarver, Esq.: The answer to the issue well sounds like it's not alone, because you need the culture, but how do employers foster this cultural shift in the workplace, like to promote and encourage more movement in the city, I want to know.

00:26:44.910 --> 00:26:55.680 Stefan Zavalin: that's it and it's a really good question and, yes, I will just also caveat, so I say this for standing desks, to a degree, treadmill desks because that's also what i'm asked about is when they put treadmills under the desks.

00:26:56.250 --> 00:27:05.640 Stefan Zavalin: which has been a popular trend now they're like little tiny treadmills that you can walk on for your standing desk build the habit, then by the desk don't don't do it the other way around, because.

00:27:05.730 --> 00:27:15.150 Stefan Zavalin: you're just going to get a bunch of people, and this is what happens when employers by a bunch of standing desks for everybody, and then they see that only 5% of their employees actually use the standing desks.

00:27:15.450 --> 00:27:20.400 Stefan Zavalin: You didn't build the habit, why do you want them to use they've always been sitting that's how they're used to doing work.

00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:20.940 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right.

00:27:20.970 --> 00:27:37.350 Stefan Zavalin: And so, when it comes to you ask the cultural side of things, is what is, how is work done in your company company culture right now is the big buzzword Everybody talks about kind of that inclusion, what are the core values for people, we can also address it from the aspect of standing.

00:27:37.530 --> 00:27:37.800 Stefan Zavalin: How.

00:27:37.830 --> 00:27:43.860 Stefan Zavalin: Is work done, is it weird for a person to be standing on a zoom call is that the odd thing for people to do.

00:27:44.100 --> 00:27:52.560 Stefan Zavalin: Or is everybody standing do you have every Monday, you have a 15 minute meeting where it's standing only meeting and it's quick people are going to be more productive.

00:27:52.860 --> 00:28:06.870 Stefan Zavalin: Because, if you want numbers standing is about 46% more productive than sitting so and that was done in a call Center, so this is looking specifically at kind of the the consistent work where you have to work at a computer.

00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:24.750 Stefan Zavalin: So you have to get in but then there's a piece of where you have to work with your employees and your cultures, so when usually, when I go in I don't if it's a company of 300 people I can talk to all 300 people giving presentations a fraction of them are going to do it that's not helpful.

00:28:24.990 --> 00:28:36.600 Stefan Zavalin: what's better is to work with groups at most 25 people are really even smaller maybe groups of 1015 those teams and find what are the ways that they are going to be able to implement and kind of use.

00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:48.930 Stefan Zavalin: use this and It all starts with cultivating culture starts with listening you just have to ask them, the question of what do you want, what does movement look like, for you, because if you're asking your entire company to participate in a five K walk.

00:28:49.290 --> 00:28:52.590 Stefan Zavalin: there's some people out there, that they have bad knees and they'll say look.

00:28:52.620 --> 00:28:54.690 Stefan Zavalin: walking one mile for me is way too much.

00:28:54.870 --> 00:28:55.230 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah.

00:28:55.290 --> 00:29:02.100 Stefan Zavalin: And it's not the answer you're already excluding them in that sense, they can be in a separate you can't exclude them and ostracize them either.

00:29:02.490 --> 00:29:14.250 Stefan Zavalin: Right, you need to find them what's the group for them that they are still cultivating that part of it so it's really asking those questions and then helping everybody be accountable building up those habits, the truth is it's a lot of work.

00:29:14.520 --> 00:29:18.030 Stefan Zavalin: Which is exactly why most of the time that's that's where i'm coming in and saying okay.

00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:26.760 Stefan Zavalin: Let me do that figuring all these things out talking to people and providing alternatives because, as soon as people go well, I can't do a five K i'm not doing anything at all.

00:29:27.060 --> 00:29:28.980 Stefan Zavalin: yeah unfortunately doesn't solve your problem.

00:29:29.340 --> 00:29:40.530 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah yeah no absolutely Stephen absolutely it's divine it's like you know there's so much interesting stuff there about kind of window into human nature, we think about it, like number one I heard you say.

00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:48.810 Eric Sarver, Esq.: i'll paraphrase, as you know, like the company, the employer normalizing extending right, I mean standing regulate normalized standing.

00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:52.890 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Sitting rolls off the Tongue that the common thing, but like normalizing it that.

00:29:53.340 --> 00:30:03.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: when somebody gets in a zoom call understanding it's it's it's considered me and maybe even applauded or just you know or just treated like okay that's great not you know, like what's going on there, you know.

00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:09.060 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Why you're standing up or because people will feel self conscious if they're the only ones doing something.

00:30:09.390 --> 00:30:12.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think is destruction, a real part of human nature there, I think you know you normalize.

00:30:13.350 --> 00:30:22.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: By making something popular and then you said, well, but one thing is good for every person, so you know, maybe sprints around the office, it might.

00:30:23.040 --> 00:30:29.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Not work so well if you've got someone with like you know heart condition so so maybe we need to really look at like what you know people's.

00:30:29.730 --> 00:30:35.850 Eric Sarver, Esq.: different abilities are and yeah it sounds like it's about getting creative to.

00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:43.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, with the coach I do encourage your team, for example, to you know take calls like standing up to you.

00:30:43.350 --> 00:30:50.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Do you have a meeting with people walk around say like a small outside the office building a nice weather, not just by the tracing but.

00:30:50.730 --> 00:31:03.990 Eric Sarver, Esq.: walk around and this year in New York and this talk about what's happening like is that you know, as opposed to all sitting around a conference room table talking about what's happening, I have you had that experience working with companies where you know.

00:31:04.350 --> 00:31:11.160 Stefan Zavalin: yeah absolutely and there's a couple of things that and you also talked about one of the things that if people are.

00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:15.030 Stefan Zavalin: unsure about the whole thing of let's say a conference room for example.

00:31:15.300 --> 00:31:29.640 Stefan Zavalin: At people think that it's too much of a cultural shock, strangely enough, but if some people are standing up some people are sitting down oh that's so disruptive, how can we possibly do that okay first let's approach, what do you usually do when somebody fidgets in a conference room.

00:31:29.970 --> 00:31:33.390 Stefan Zavalin: If your company says, nobody fidget everybody sits completely.

00:31:33.390 --> 00:31:39.810 Stefan Zavalin: Still first let's start allowed fidgeting because actually fidgeting is your body's way of saying hey I need movement, let me, let me move a little bit.

00:31:40.080 --> 00:31:42.720 Stefan Zavalin: And a lot of studies show that you can actually reverse.

00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:51.780 Stefan Zavalin: A good number of those issues with prolonged sitting by fidgeting it depends on the amount of budget if it's just twirling your fingers maybe not as much we're talking about kinda like the leg ones, and all of that.

00:31:52.170 --> 00:32:01.440 Stefan Zavalin: But even something like that what is of course officiating is very disruptive your bank and a pen on the table that's a different issue, but you can still fidget and not be disruptive to the rest of.

00:32:02.190 --> 00:32:16.710 Stefan Zavalin: The entire group the other key thing that you touched on, which is interesting is that to encourage employees and encouragement is great, I think, companies should absolutely encourage, but they should also understand the difference between encouragement and facilitation.

00:32:17.040 --> 00:32:18.570 Stefan Zavalin: There are many companies that encourage.

00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:31.110 Stefan Zavalin: Far fewer that facilitate so it to help listeners encouragement sounds like this, we have company xyz think or know that sitting too long, is bad for you, so we encourage you to take some breaks throughout your day.

00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:41.400 Stefan Zavalin: Right, so the station sounds like this we accompany xyz know this prolonged sitting is bad for you, we have given you three five minute breaks throughout your morning and your afternoon.

00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:50.430 Stefan Zavalin: that's it you've now given the entire permission, it is not as weird for somebody to be walking past your cubicle or wherever you may be because you know they've been given those breaks.

00:32:50.550 --> 00:32:51.840 Stefan Zavalin: they're not slacking off.

00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:57.900 Stefan Zavalin: The culture is there and it's what you've touched on again it's normalized that the movement is going to be part of the company culture.

00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:08.100 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah yeah that's you know I think like a really important point, you know because and it's funny it's like interesting that what you're talking about tonight we're talking about tonight stefan's.

00:33:09.120 --> 00:33:18.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: i've seen how normalizing even say conversation around race at a different topic, but it's like that same idea that people you know if you just tell company.

00:33:18.840 --> 00:33:31.050 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Your employees don't see many people, you know to win equally, some people have no idea what that looks like in terms of like say implicit bias know or getting rid of micro aggression in the workplace it's like you need to really.

00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:43.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: facilitate it through trainings are examples through modeling behavior through communications, and so I think the same would apply arguably that any kind of workplace cultural shift.

00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:52.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Because you can tell your employees a don't work 20 hours of every health, but if you give them a ton of work right, and you know, to build our model, maybe you need to say.

00:33:53.010 --> 00:34:03.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: folks we're going to have a you know, an 8:30am to 2pm work week every other week or four day workweek and that's a way of facilitating people not overworking so.

00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:13.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think you raise a good, solid point there that you know i'm sure you must i'm sure you must get people like light bulbs going off when you say this, that there will be an encouragement facilitation that's key.

00:34:15.150 --> 00:34:16.710 Stefan Zavalin: Apps absolutely and.

00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:23.970 Stefan Zavalin: There is this kind of avenue of where different people are going to go different employees, I should say individuals are going to go at different paces.

00:34:24.150 --> 00:34:31.680 Stefan Zavalin: So there may be some that a five minute break is going to be nothing to them, there may be some that that's way more movement and they're used to.

00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:43.980 Stefan Zavalin: It so much and if we're going to say you're going to now stand up we're getting getting employees standing desks you're not going to go from sitting for however many years you've been sitting for those 13 hours to now you're going to stand to our straight for work.

00:34:44.220 --> 00:34:47.190 Stefan Zavalin: But your body's not used to handle that you can't handle that.

00:34:47.370 --> 00:34:51.270 Stefan Zavalin: And I always say start slower and build up and start way too big and then.

00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:57.090 Stefan Zavalin: Because that's not how you're going to build up the habit, you should build up to have it from kind of success, you may start with five to 10 minutes of standing.

00:34:57.450 --> 00:35:07.170 Stefan Zavalin: One of the easiest ways is, if you have emails that you use the answer in the morning for 1015 minutes, and you have a laptop can you take it to a counter and can you just do it and that's just how you do those emails from now on.

00:35:07.650 --> 00:35:12.990 Stefan Zavalin: And that's it that's your habit you've built that up it's not two hours of standing we could build up to that potentially.

00:35:13.290 --> 00:35:26.430 Stefan Zavalin: But that's not where you're going to start if you're not sure what what time how long this is for both entrepreneurs and employers and employees, if you're back and neck is aching if your muscles are tired and fatigued.

00:35:26.730 --> 00:35:28.200 Stefan Zavalin: way too much yeah.

00:35:28.350 --> 00:35:38.760 Stefan Zavalin: it's not a no pain, no gain kind of a thing you should always feel that oh i'm invigorated Okay, maybe i'm maybe i'm a little bit tired, let me sit down a little bit is where you stop don't push it more than that.

00:35:39.210 --> 00:35:46.440 Stefan Zavalin: And overall you made that point that we we do sit outside of work as well i'm realistic about it, I don't expect that we would be sitting.

00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.990 Stefan Zavalin: or not sitting for the whole eight hours.

00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:55.770 Stefan Zavalin: The ideal the absolute ideal is, if you can sit only four out of the eight hours so have the time that you were working.

00:35:56.250 --> 00:36:07.860 Stefan Zavalin: But that takes time to build up to don't start there just take 30 minutes hour off at a time, build up from there don't your employees will not lie to you if you just cut that in half that's going to be way too much for anybody.

00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:17.010 Eric Sarver, Esq.: will come back to that point i'm so in thrall with a conversation that I actually missed a little notes myself at the commercial break so we'll take our next commercial break right now.

00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:28.020 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Focusing to implement a lot today our guest Dr stefan's island we're going to come back with more on this topic and more helpful cockpit tipsy so stick around redneck.

00:36:33.660 --> 00:36:34.950 Eric Sarver, Esq.: gateway to the smokies.

00:36:35.100 --> 00:36:39.660 It airs on talk radio dot nyc every Tuesday night from six to seven.

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00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:57.660 tune in every Tuesday from 6pm to seven on talk radio dot nyc.

00:37:00.750 --> 00:37:14.220 passionate about the conversation around racism hi i'm Reverend Dr tlc host of the dismantle racism show which airs every Thursday at 11am Eastern on talk radio dot nyc.

00:37:14.670 --> 00:37:26.730 join me and my amazing guest, as we discussed ways to uncover dismantle radical racism that's Thursdays at 11 o'clock 8am on talk radio dot nyc.

00:37:31.290 --> 00:37:42.180 Small Business trying to navigate the coven 19 related employment laws Hello i'm Eric sovereign employment law business law journey and host of the new radio show employment law today.

00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:55.410 On my show who have guests, to discuss the common employment law challenges business owners are facing during these trying times tune in on to the things from 5pm to 6pm Eastern time on talk radio dot nyc.

00:38:00.270 --> 00:38:07.380 or listening to talk radio nyc at www talk radio dot nyc our broadcasting.

00:38:32.070 --> 00:38:38.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law today i'm your host erick solver employment law business law attorney here with doctors to find.

00:38:39.720 --> 00:38:47.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: A movement mentor driven to change this work culture with his as company love to move and his book sitting less.

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:58.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: yeah once against the five really great discussion so far and we got a couple more topics you'd have to cover, but I think we really hitting home with like you know very.

00:38:58.770 --> 00:39:15.000 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Concrete you know not so like esoteric abstract complex but just country simple yet you know concrete actions and reasons for actions that I think people can really get behind stand up for so so it's good to hear you so far, what you have to say.

00:39:15.930 --> 00:39:21.930 Stefan Zavalin: i'm glad that's that's been my absolute pleasure of hearing after the Ted talk and a lot of times when I speak to people about it.

00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:22.800 Stefan Zavalin: They go.

00:39:23.040 --> 00:39:26.670 Stefan Zavalin: wow that's kind of simple isn't it yeah, the problem is that we're not doing it that's that's.

00:39:26.670 --> 00:39:27.360 Stefan Zavalin: The other side.

00:39:27.870 --> 00:39:38.340 Stefan Zavalin: Which is a lot more complex that's you know human behavior psychology has what to do, it's not it's not necessarily as difficult or, and this is my favorite true truly part about it as pricey.

00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:43.620 Stefan Zavalin: it's not as if we need to new gadget we need the new because that's another thing people ask about is is there an APP for that.

00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:46.020 Stefan Zavalin: And my my usual answer is.

00:39:46.200 --> 00:39:49.740 Stefan Zavalin: If there was, would you actually do what the APP says, or would you just turn off the buzzer and not.

00:39:49.740 --> 00:39:50.070 Eric Sarver, Esq.: listening.

00:39:50.640 --> 00:39:53.100 Stefan Zavalin: Because that's the problem it doesn't matter if there's an APP for that.

00:39:53.370 --> 00:39:53.610 Stefan Zavalin: Right.

00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:55.710 Stefan Zavalin: comes down to our own habits yeah.

00:39:56.370 --> 00:40:03.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: very true very you know that's funny because, like people get Apps, for you know meditation timers and sleeping and like if you really haven't.

00:40:03.630 --> 00:40:14.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You hit you know the the but okay got it gets out leader and that you know and as you pointed out, though habits around sitting and standing at in the workplace, which has been point as we talked about earlier.

00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:30.270 Eric Sarver, Esq.: is viable for the employer and the employee right employee gets more healthy, balanced productive focused employees like employees, become more balanced healthy focus, etc, but like the chat that the part of move of habit building is starting small I heard you say.

00:40:31.290 --> 00:40:39.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: and better to start small and build up from there, then, to start too big and too much reminded exercise it's like right they you know I had two friends.

00:40:40.140 --> 00:40:51.840 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I have one never at your friends in the story that I think valuable one used to be in great shape is wonderful fantastic exercise he played football in college he got injured you stop exercising game on a weight.

00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:58.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And so, he had exercised like 15 years, maybe like 18 years decided to go out and again right around 4041.

00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:09.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So he started exercising but he wants to do what he did as a you know God training college football player, so he knows he can the weights, really, really hard to always kind of.

00:41:09.690 --> 00:41:19.650 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Like intense like movements and running and racing and jumping and sprinting and you know we're kind of just again would pull under her every muscle and his back and be sort of like five days you know.

00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:30.720 Eric Sarver, Esq.: It just like wiped out like they not able to exercise like like three four weeks, and then you go out and again just as hardcore, you know as if you were back in his height height of his.

00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:39.090 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And then just be like flat, you know, and he stopped exercising and another friend who injured both his legs, like in an accident, thankfully, it was not permanent but it.

00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:47.460 Eric Sarver, Esq.: took a while to get recovered sky so love to skate used to roller blade like all over the place, everywhere, you know four hours a day is great shape.

00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:54.390 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And you know your injury and depressed and he couldn't relate anymore, and then he just refused like one of his good friends that you know what.

00:41:54.720 --> 00:41:59.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I think you should punish gates and just skate around the block and then pick them off.

00:42:00.180 --> 00:42:07.290 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And he said that's what it doesn't make any sense to me so just just do that just you know, three times a week just five minutes from the block.

00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:13.800 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And he's like but you don't get me or workout said, but he did you know it is sort of you know appeases nagging friend.

00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:18.570 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And then it became 10 minutes and then he was trying to get 15 it wasn't even get and then all sudden he's back.

00:42:18.990 --> 00:42:30.330 Eric Sarver, Esq.: To skating regularly, so I maybe that to your point about like you know you sit us down a little more you standard emails you may be standing in that call that maybe you're doing three calls that kind of align what you're saying or.

00:42:30.780 --> 00:42:32.220 Stefan Zavalin: Absolutely that story.

00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:42.240 Stefan Zavalin: Honestly, just warms my heart, because I think there's another piece that that's that's really interesting and I know this wasn't technically The moral of the story.

00:42:42.450 --> 00:42:45.600 Stefan Zavalin: But you look at the first person, the first person's.

00:42:46.680 --> 00:42:55.290 Stefan Zavalin: kind of driving motivation was football sports big things, so the workout was similarly tailored I have to do this, this stuff.

00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:57.540 Stefan Zavalin: Even though there wasn't football to do it for.

00:42:57.570 --> 00:43:02.490 Stefan Zavalin: Because realistically, you would work out to be a good football player, not just worked out to work out.

00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:07.920 Stefan Zavalin: In the case of the second person the skating in the scheme where a passion and something they liked.

00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:14.160 Stefan Zavalin: Because it wasn't I wonder, for example, what would have happened if, instead, they said well why don't you just jump rope.

00:43:14.430 --> 00:43:19.650 Stefan Zavalin: And they will go I don't I don't care I don't jump rope I don't like that that's not interesting to me, would it have had the same effect.

00:43:19.860 --> 00:43:24.720 Stefan Zavalin: Or did it have this effect because they started small with something that actually resonated with them and they liked doing.

00:43:25.710 --> 00:43:34.710 Stefan Zavalin: There is there's something also to consider there, and that is absolute that's kind of coming back to that whole thing of where you said, maybe you shouldn't sprint around the Office, if you have a heart condition.

00:43:35.250 --> 00:43:47.130 Stefan Zavalin: In it's not gonna it's not a cookie cutter kind of method of we do need to find those things that apply to each person specifically and when it comes to habits motivation is just such a big big component of it.

00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:59.850 Stefan Zavalin: Blair, what is the deep down core motivation for you, because if if you're the employer and you're motivating your employees just by saying well you're going to fire you or your i'm going to pay you less.

00:43:59.910 --> 00:44:04.440 Stefan Zavalin: Right, out of fear that's not going to be lasting you're not going to have a good relationship with them.

00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:15.120 Stefan Zavalin: You have to find what is it that motivates them what is that internal peace for them that's important a lot of times they can be family, it can be the fact that making money makes them feel free because they can express themselves.

00:44:15.390 --> 00:44:26.490 Stefan Zavalin: Okay, so hey now if you're going to be standing up, let me, maybe if you're going to stand up two or three hours throughout the day I know your productivity is going to increase by about 46%.

00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:35.700 Stefan Zavalin: Which very rough math here that we're doing but that might give you about an hour and a half extra of work out of that person.

00:44:36.120 --> 00:44:46.920 Stefan Zavalin: hmm So what if you say hey if you give me three hours of standing you can leave a half an hour early you can leave an hour early you as the employer still went out on the productivity benefits.

00:44:47.130 --> 00:44:48.660 Stefan Zavalin: And it's not an exact science, but.

00:44:48.660 --> 00:44:53.910 Stefan Zavalin: it's finding those ways of what's important for them, maybe they need to pick up their kid and that's why they need to get out early.

00:44:54.240 --> 00:44:58.500 Stefan Zavalin: you've given them an avenue of getting out early and a good motivator exactly for them to do it.

00:44:58.950 --> 00:45:09.420 Stefan Zavalin: So it's finding those amazing little connections and that builds up culture, besides just movement that makes you more connected as an entire company and your employees are going to be way better for it.

00:45:10.530 --> 00:45:20.640 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I like that it's like like I you know you can touch upon that sort of the faith, the psychology behind a coach or any kind of cultural movement, you know sitting laughing moving more or.

00:45:21.330 --> 00:45:25.980 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Anything along those lines work life balance, like you know fire saying.

00:45:26.550 --> 00:45:32.700 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Everything is fine, what worked for that employee what speaks to them, and so, if it's like hey you know.

00:45:32.970 --> 00:45:38.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: If you do this instead less you get you know free coffee this place in the person like I don't like coffee I don't drink coffee you.

00:45:38.640 --> 00:45:42.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Know gives you much, but you know if it's like, as you pointed out that's an excellent point to define that.

00:45:43.290 --> 00:45:48.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: For you as an employee, I know that my standing more and moving more sitting less employees, be more productive.

00:45:48.690 --> 00:45:57.150 Eric Sarver, Esq.: and healthy and well, and you can reward them by you know living them leave half an hour early and lots of them if they're passionate about their nighttime.

00:45:57.750 --> 00:46:08.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You know, look up the character, you have to pick up their child from from school or early or coming in half an hour later, you can sleep late on Fridays that's a good or maybe Monday, if people like to wake up early Monday morning.

00:46:09.660 --> 00:46:26.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: I hear it, I hear you know it can be expensive, you can have a book to the standing desk and he can have, but here it's like the implementing the culture, includes the psychology and finding the motivation and taking small steps it's really helpful stuff to down.

00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:37.980 Stefan Zavalin: And then here's the piece of where it becomes complex and kind of difficult to implement, we can say hey This is great, we can have the knowledge, a lot of times we're missing the action.

00:46:38.520 --> 00:46:43.500 Stefan Zavalin: One of my favorite little quotes that I love telling people is knowledge without action is useless and irrelevant.

00:46:43.770 --> 00:46:56.250 Stefan Zavalin: yeah yes, you can you can know what to do, but if you don't do it that's the problem we're having, and this is maybe a complete different discussion I won't go too deep into this, but we're having an issue where middle management is becoming micromanager.

00:46:56.610 --> 00:47:05.610 Stefan Zavalin: That they're just they're doing tasks that aren't necessary that computer program can easily, do you know, like what is your productivity number.

00:47:06.060 --> 00:47:11.670 Stefan Zavalin: An excel spreadsheet can tell you what your productivity number is if we're really getting into all of that you don't need a human to do that.

00:47:12.270 --> 00:47:23.670 Stefan Zavalin: But what you need the human to do is make those connections pieces, so this kind of stuff that we're talking about about building that culture that's where those middle managers really can shine is about building up that Community of the team.

00:47:23.850 --> 00:47:33.060 Stefan Zavalin: and connecting those pieces because maybe there's two people that are in that book club like you said, but they don't know that they're in the book club and all the sudden they have a connection piece of work.

00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:38.370 Stefan Zavalin: It really is lacking, that that kind of cultural piece and that's I think what needs to be built up.

00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:45.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: let's take a commercial break fine here i'm talking to nyc and employment law today or to come back and talk more about that as well as.

00:47:45.600 --> 00:47:59.280 Eric Sarver, Esq.: we're talking about love to move and how much itself from other companies, promoting ergonomics and movement, so we heard a lot so far we're some more so stick around everyone to pamela today, I took her to nyc with Dr stefan's outlet we'll be right back.

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00:49:34.680 --> 00:49:35.400 broadcasting.

00:49:58.560 --> 00:49:59.970 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Welcome back to employment law.

00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:12.930 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Today i'm your host erick savoured our guest tonight, Dr stefan's of and i'm sure everyone has been really taken aback impressed by this interesting dynamic enthusiastic conversation we're having so i'm really glad you're on the show tonight.

00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:18.630 Stefan Zavalin: i'm excited like like I said at the beginning, I love talking about this stuff I can talk.

00:50:18.630 --> 00:50:19.890 Stefan Zavalin: about it and Leslie.

00:50:20.310 --> 00:50:33.120 Stefan Zavalin: Which is, which is a beautiful thing we kind of talked about finding passion and finding that that thing at the beginning of the of this show and it's nice to feel that to whatever it is that you're doing is giving you energy as opposed to take an energy away from you.

00:50:33.780 --> 00:50:40.680 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Agreed agreed either passionate for employment law and Labor law I love business law as well it's like you know if I can give a presentation.

00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:47.760 Eric Sarver, Esq.: vagaries more mature, if I can help a client i'm, so in that zone it's like my joy so glad you experienced that too.

00:50:48.060 --> 00:50:58.560 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I want to give you a chance you know before we i'll give you a couple minutes at the end to share your contact information, but for now i'm wondering like How does love to move distinguish itself without the.

00:51:01.470 --> 00:51:08.730 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Right parts there, how does love to move the same with yourself from some other maybe firms are companies that might be stressing.

00:51:09.270 --> 00:51:21.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Say ergonomics, or you know movement and you share it comes up and also asked you, how do you apply some of your principles when you have employers with remote workforces like encouraging the work home folks to get.

00:51:23.190 --> 00:51:35.130 Stefan Zavalin: Short and honestly, the answer is kind of the same for both of them, so when it comes to economics, there are many companies that have an ergonomics team and whenever they hear about the things that I do they go oh yeah we have an ergonomic team we don't care that's that's fine.

00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:37.410 Stefan Zavalin: here's the issue when I talked to employees.

00:51:37.470 --> 00:51:44.070 Stefan Zavalin: And their interactions with their companies ergonomics teams, they may set up exactly what you need, as far as your desk.

00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:50.280 Stefan Zavalin: And that's it and they there's not usually this kind of interaction of Okay, what are the habits that you need to build around that.

00:51:50.850 --> 00:51:58.860 Stefan Zavalin: What is the culture is this even though your desk might be set up perfectly if you're sitting all that time you're not doing your body any good.

00:51:59.520 --> 00:52:04.320 Stefan Zavalin: it's less bad, then, if your desk was terribly set up but it's still it's not quite that piece.

00:52:04.530 --> 00:52:17.610 Stefan Zavalin: So a lot of what I tried to make sure that love to move brings in is that cultural and the habit formation piece, which is lacking, and that takes time and presence, which is that the other piece that sometimes doesn't happen is i've had people that go.

00:52:18.270 --> 00:52:28.860 Stefan Zavalin: Oh yeah you know my employer told me that are ergonomics team had a presentation last week just about what you were talking about and I go now why weren't you at the presentation and why didn't you know about the presentation when it happened.

00:52:29.310 --> 00:52:31.740 Stefan Zavalin: Why did it only happen after the fact, when you brought up the.

00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:46.470 Stefan Zavalin: idea of needing to do that, though it's not within the culture to actually kind of think about movement and how important it is, even though that's what we do every single day really every single waking moment is moving to some some degree degree or shape and.

00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:50.160 Stefan Zavalin: In that sense, and so, when it comes to remote workers.

00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:55.140 Stefan Zavalin: You can't really change you're not going to be able to say i'm going to buy you a standing desk you could.

00:52:55.650 --> 00:53:02.250 Stefan Zavalin: it's a little bit harder, because you don't know their actual layout but that's when it comes to culture and habits, because no matter what they have even if they have a pile.

00:53:02.430 --> 00:53:14.850 Stefan Zavalin: of their professors old textbooks, they can still have the habit and the culture around it, if everybody else on the zoom call standing up you're cultivating that kind of team and camaraderie if we stand up easily done remotely.

00:53:15.570 --> 00:53:25.740 Stefan Zavalin: what's not easily done early is ergonomics, are you going to have somebody go out to every single person's house to fix it up that's a lot harder, but if you teach people how to do it because a lot of the ergonomics bits.

00:53:26.010 --> 00:53:36.840 Stefan Zavalin: I can teach somebody how to get the major points across and do it for themselves, you base basically teaching them how to fish as opposed to just being like that set up okay you'll never see me again i'm their economics guy.

00:53:37.680 --> 00:53:41.910 Stefan Zavalin: Are fantastic are anonymous people I don't want people to think that it's bad it's just this is what i've been hearing from.

00:53:41.910 --> 00:53:42.600 Eric Sarver, Esq.: employees.

00:53:42.870 --> 00:53:52.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: of their interest right it's like it's more of a sustain movement it's more of a plan, where it's very I think it's more than an actual.

00:53:52.860 --> 00:54:04.770 Eric Sarver, Esq.: setup and values and culture and habits, the culture and habits and listening interactively which is different than you know here's a standing desk sittings bad or too much, it is not good for you, you know fix it.

00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:13.080 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And I think it's really important to make that observation it's really is it's just and, as you mentioned, remote workers it's you know we can't.

00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:21.510 Eric Sarver, Esq.: control where some of their out outcome or they're whether they're out exterior that we can control or how to teach them about culture.

00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:28.470 Eric Sarver, Esq.: And we have three minutes until it shows up my time flies when you're having a ball and I am having fun here, why don't I give you a couple minutes, even just to.

00:54:28.710 --> 00:54:35.670 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Share about you know how can people get in touch with you like your website, you know email any upcoming books talks it's floors yours.

00:54:36.120 --> 00:54:44.970 Stefan Zavalin: Sure, so stephen's that easy right there you can absolutely find it that has the link to the most of my socials.

00:54:45.180 --> 00:54:50.310 Stefan Zavalin: If you just want some inspiration and you can find me on instagram that's where I post, the vast majority of my things.

00:54:50.640 --> 00:55:01.080 Stefan Zavalin: If you're just going hey I need some of these tips and tricks and things costly be put out it's all out there, if you have any questions I love questions, and I am upset that not enough people reach out to me.

00:55:02.550 --> 00:55:09.270 Stefan Zavalin: Please email me Stephen dad's Evelyn at lt am Mt

00:55:09.540 --> 00:55:13.290 Stefan Zavalin: But really you can just do the contact form on the website as well.

00:55:13.350 --> 00:55:20.490 Stefan Zavalin: That will reach me right away the book is called sit less i've got a beautiful purple cover of it here.

00:55:21.720 --> 00:55:28.830 Stefan Zavalin: purple is my favorite color, and so the book is purple you'll see a lot of purple if you ever interact with any of my website or social media things.

00:55:29.340 --> 00:55:33.990 Stefan Zavalin: Because I really I try to take you along on this adventure, because we need to make this stuff fun.

00:55:34.350 --> 00:55:44.490 Stefan Zavalin: I understand standing up for work is boring but we need to make an adventure and fun and that's that's my whole drive is to make sure that we change the whole global culture around desk work.

00:55:44.640 --> 00:55:50.760 Stefan Zavalin: So that we're not sitting as much it's not about know sitting it's about sitting less that's my whole spiel.

00:55:51.540 --> 00:55:57.750 Eric Sarver, Esq.: um you know, while said there, I really we know well, said to wrap it up it's like you know, in that, in that way and it's it's.

00:55:58.350 --> 00:56:03.690 Eric Sarver, Esq.: In the purple also a big fan of cripples Ly, which bring it to like a purple shirt there are putting very nice.

00:56:04.680 --> 00:56:08.040 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Knowing the right it's like this is actually an interesting topic I think people might.

00:56:08.490 --> 00:56:15.540 Eric Sarver, Esq.: write off as Oh well, sitting last you know, but you hear about the health issues and all so it's just great to hear, and you know.

00:56:15.990 --> 00:56:24.960 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Stefan it's like as we wrap up that's been i'll just say first off, thank you for being on the show you've been an excellent guest that I appreciate your energy and your optimism.

00:56:25.560 --> 00:56:36.360 Eric Sarver, Esq.: it's very inspiring and also if people like what they heard you know you can hear us on iTunes or apple or Google play, but tune in Tuesday nights 5pm 6pm to 5pm Eastern standard time.

00:56:36.630 --> 00:56:44.250 Eric Sarver, Esq.: writing to talk radio nyc which is www Facebook COM forward slash talk radio nyc or the talk radio website.

00:56:45.150 --> 00:56:53.910 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Once again i'm Eric sovereign employment law business library I love bringing these issues up every week so stay tuned and tune in to the other fine shows on the station.

00:56:54.780 --> 00:57:06.030 Eric Sarver, Esq.: So I wish everyone a good night, a good week and here's to moving more and singing lessons and Stefan once again thank you so much.

00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.660 Stefan Zavalin: Thank you and everybody go go with Erica Happy Birthday everywhere.

00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:10.350 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Oh yes.

00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:11.310 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Please, the race very.

00:57:12.270 --> 00:57:12.480 eight.

00:57:13.650 --> 00:57:14.220 Eric Sarver, Esq.: years old.

00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:17.040 Eric Sarver, Esq.: You never know never find out, but they.

00:57:17.550 --> 00:57:17.940 Never.

00:57:19.620 --> 00:57:21.240 Eric Sarver, Esq.: Thank yes.

00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:21.990 Stefan Zavalin: Yes, well.

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