Dismantle Racism with Rev. Dr. TLC

Thursday, September 8, 2022
Facebook Live Video from 2022/09/08 - Starting With the Self

Facebook Live Video from 2022/09/08 - Starting With the Self


2022/09/08 - Starting With the Self

[NEW EPISODE] Starting With the Self


The audience will get tools to identify symptoms of racism within themselves as a prerequisite to challenging harmful ideologies externally. Listeners will gain a more thorough understanding of the various ways racism presents itself, and how they can use their individual power to disrupt patterns of inequity.


Rev. Dr. TLC will be joined by Waleska Lugo-DeJesús, CEO of Inclusive Strategies to talk about Racial Healing as a process to learn our truth first and then understand others. How can we use our lived experiences to dismantle racism, stand in our power, educate, and be a disruptor for change? 

Lugo-DeJesús will use the four forms of racism: Internalized Racism, Interpersonal Racism, Institutional Racism, and Systemic Racism as the foundation to describe the intersectionality of systems of oppression with a human-centered approach. Lugo-DeJesús will inspire healing to promote equitable environments and communities for all.

EPISODE QUOTE:  We are defined by more than just the color of our skin 

Tune in for this important conversation at

Show Notes

Segment 1

Rev Dr. TLC asks her audience to check out her website to take a look at the resources she offers to help guide you in dismantling racism. She has a course that is taking place on September 14th that she would like you to join. You can find out more on her website. Rev. Dr. TLC invites her audience to participate in a guided meditation before jumping into the discussion about dismantling racism. She says that when we are in the work of dismantling racism, it is essential for us to engage in self-care. She adds that we have an outlet that keeps us grounded so we can release the pressures of dismantling racism and our everyday life.

Segment 2

Rev. Dr. TLC introduces her guest Waleska Lugo Dejesus and tells us a little bit about her background and accolades. Waleska tells Rev. Dr. TLC about some of the things that ground her while engaging in this work of dismantling racism. Rev. Dr. TLC asks Waleska when she first noticed race and when she noticed she was different. Waleska tells a story that transpired in her early 20s that changed her life and led her to do the work of dismantling racism. She says that experiencing racism is what inspired her to do this work. Waleska had to relearn her history and understand herself before she was able to help dismantle racism.

Segment 3

Waleska breaks down the four forms of racism: internalized, interpersonal, institutional, and systemic racism. Waleska explains how racism affects everyone, no matter of skin color. She says we all have our own biases but are responsible for how we treat others. Rev. Dr. TLC mentions that internalized racism is subtle, and people are usually unaware that they are doing it. Waleska talks about Rev. Dr. TLC’s book, Dismantling Racism, and says that it forced her to look inside of herself.

Segment 4

Waleska breaks down the meaning and effects of systemic racism. She says that systems come together to provide disadvantages for people of color. She adds that this is an issue that we did not cause, but it’s our responsibility to fix it. When you are aware of the four forms of racism, it will be open for you to make a change. Waleska says we must make sacrifices in order to continue to create a world of racial equity. She talks about working seventy hours while raising a small child and walking away from opportunities that didn’t suit her. You can find more information on Waleska on Linkedin at Waleska Lugo Dejesus.


00:00:55.100 --> 00:01:17.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Welcome to the dismantle racism show. I'm. Your host of Reverend Dr. Tlc. Our aim of the show is to uncover dismantle and eradicate racism. I want to thank you so so much for joining me today, and the many things that you do out in the world to dismantle racism, whether it's an act

00:01:17.810 --> 00:01:35.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of writing a letter or interrupting racism when you see it occurring, or simply just being kind to someone who looks differently than you. And so I thank you so much again for all that you do.

00:01:35.960 --> 00:01:40.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I also want to just invite you to go to my website.

00:01:40.810 --> 00:01:59.839 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Sacred Intelligence! Dot com take a look at all the things that I have to offer there to help and to support you on your journey to dismantling racism. I have a course that's coming up on September fourteenth would love for you to join me for that. Go to Sacred Intelligence, dot com, and find out more

00:01:59.850 --> 00:02:02.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about that particular course.

00:02:02.850 --> 00:02:22.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to begin today, as I always do, by having us to simply set the stage for this important conversation that we're going to have. I want to invite us to really plant our feet on the floor or on the ground wherever you might be.

00:02:23.260 --> 00:02:34.070 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Take a moment to close your eyes if you would. And if you're sitting, just really be conscious of the chair that is underneath you,

00:02:35.290 --> 00:02:37.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: they really find your breath.

00:02:38.740 --> 00:02:41.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Take a moment to breathe in

00:02:42.470 --> 00:02:43.560 out

00:02:44.600 --> 00:02:49.930 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to transition for what you were doing before you began listening

00:02:50.420 --> 00:02:53.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to this particular episode.

00:02:54.730 --> 00:03:02.010 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breathe in and out, finding your breath connecting you with who you are

00:03:03.630 --> 00:03:07.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting you with your inner being,

00:03:07.610 --> 00:03:10.720 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: your sacred intelligence,

00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:16.489 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that part of you that helps you to manifest your greatness.

00:03:17.670 --> 00:03:22.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breathe in and out, knowing that as you manifest your greatness,

00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:26.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you will help others to manifest their greatness

00:03:28.650 --> 00:03:33.729 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in and out, that you are not alone.

00:03:34.500 --> 00:03:36.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You are supported

00:03:37.110 --> 00:03:41.909 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: by the sacred, the universe, your source.

00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:48.219 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You are supported by other people who are on the journey with you,

00:03:50.370 --> 00:03:56.330 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out, knowing that you have all the resources you need

00:03:56.850 --> 00:04:00.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to accomplish what you set out to do.

00:04:03.540 --> 00:04:07.119 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breathe in and out, knowing

00:04:07.200 --> 00:04:13.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you are connected with life itself, with every part of the universe. You,

00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:16.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: every part of the planet

00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.830 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: know that you are love

00:04:23.430 --> 00:04:26.950 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: itself, and you are loved.

00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:32.089 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breath in and out, embracing

00:04:32.260 --> 00:04:34.420 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: that supreme love,

00:04:36.650 --> 00:04:40.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breathe in and out, knowing that the power of one

00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:44.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: contributes to the power of community.

00:04:46.610 --> 00:04:50.850 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You are capable of changing the status quo.

00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:56.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Take a deep breath in,

00:04:58.170 --> 00:04:59.780 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and the out

00:05:00.960 --> 00:05:03.730 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: connecting again with who you are,

00:05:04.770 --> 00:05:08.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and connecting with the words I am,

00:05:09.230 --> 00:05:12.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and just sitting in that space for a moment,

00:05:13.390 --> 00:05:19.030 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: finding the word that resignates for you with, I am

00:05:23.250 --> 00:05:25.609 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: breath in that word,

00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and know that that word

00:05:30.810 --> 00:05:34.570 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: helps to define. Your mindset

00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:39.530 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: helps to determine the decisions that you will make in life,

00:05:41.130 --> 00:05:43.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and it helps you

00:05:44.350 --> 00:05:49.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to determine whether it's time for you to make a change,

00:05:51.670 --> 00:05:53.500 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to breathe in,

00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:55.970 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Breathe out,

00:05:59.580 --> 00:06:02.280 and now take another deep breath in,

00:06:03.050 --> 00:06:04.920 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: sigh it out.

00:06:05.320 --> 00:06:07.229 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And Las Vegas,

00:06:13.020 --> 00:06:22.269 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is so wonderful for us to be able to connect with our breath, especially when we are doing the work of dismantling racism

00:06:23.700 --> 00:06:35.810 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: for those of us who do this work all the time, whether we're doing, training or facilitating workshops, or using the situations for teachable moments, it can be overwhelming.

00:06:35.820 --> 00:06:46.800 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But even if you aren't doing trainings and you're just engaged in the work of dismantling racism by looking at what goes on in your home or your community,

00:06:46.880 --> 00:06:52.300 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or even within yourself, when you're having to deal with racism so often,

00:06:53.500 --> 00:06:56.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we need to be reminded to take a breath

00:06:56.640 --> 00:07:03.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: to return to that sacred part of us to know that we're defined by more than just

00:07:04.390 --> 00:07:08.539 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the color of our skin, more than just the work that we do

00:07:08.960 --> 00:07:18.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: more than just the ways in which we're showing up in the world, as it currently relates to whatever is happening in our lives. Always go back to your breath

00:07:20.630 --> 00:07:23.779 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when we are doing the work of dismantling racism.

00:07:23.790 --> 00:07:28.310 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is really important for us to take care of ourselves.

00:07:28.640 --> 00:07:39.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If you will notice when I do the radio show. I often start out by asking my guess whether they have a sacred practice. How do they take care of themselves

00:07:39.910 --> 00:07:42.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on the journey of dismantling racism.

00:07:43.090 --> 00:07:52.100 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Often they will go back to you know whether they do meditation. Do Yoga read a book, jog

00:07:53.330 --> 00:08:01.349 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's important for you to find ways in which to release the pressures of racism,

00:08:01.450 --> 00:08:09.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the pressures of your everyday life. You cannot do the work of dismantling racism. If you do not take care of yourself.

00:08:10.020 --> 00:08:12.689 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Why? Because you will become depleted,

00:08:13.220 --> 00:08:23.739 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, even socially. You won't want to hang out with your friends. You won't want to do anything because you're depleted.

00:08:24.350 --> 00:08:30.009 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is important to learn how to take care of yourself through the process.

00:08:30.950 --> 00:08:38.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's also important for you to learn how to close off your energy,

00:08:38.610 --> 00:08:44.390 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: so that you're not wide open, and that people just decide that they want to talk with you

00:08:44.620 --> 00:08:51.250 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: every event that they experience, and it could be related to race or not.

00:08:51.770 --> 00:08:54.320 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I once gave a two-day workshop,

00:08:54.560 --> 00:09:08.089 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and this workshop was strictly about dismantling racism. So imagine doing two full days of talking about nothing but racism, and there were people who wanted to be there, and there were people who did it

00:09:08.100 --> 00:09:12.360 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because the company kind of required their employees to attend.

00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:21.190 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So I got on a plane, and for two hours this woman talked to me about her personal problems

00:09:21.410 --> 00:09:24.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: because I did not close myself off.

00:09:24.740 --> 00:09:40.359 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And can you imagine how tired I was after dealing with, You know, participants who wanted to be there? Some who didn't want to be there and just doing this work, but I did not close myself. Well, that does not mean that we have to be nasty to people,

00:09:40.650 --> 00:09:44.709 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but we must find a way of protecting ourselves.

00:09:45.270 --> 00:09:47.409 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Of course I could have said to her,

00:09:47.420 --> 00:10:07.969 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I've had a long day. Lady Don't talk to me, but that's not who I am, because I am a psychologist so, and and the funny thing about it is at the end. She asked me: Well, what do you do? And I, said i'm a psychologist, and she said, Well, can you tell? I go to therapy, and I was like, Ah, yeah, I can tell the therapy, and if you don't, you need to go to therapy.

00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:09.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's.

00:10:10.020 --> 00:10:13.380 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I want to be very clear

00:10:13.570 --> 00:10:16.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This work of dismantling racism

00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:19.610 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: requires self-care.

00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:24.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It also requires us having a supportive network.

00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.670 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: People who do this work,

00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:33.350 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: people that we can go to, and we can talk to them about. Wow! What a day I had!

00:10:33.430 --> 00:10:51.839 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So whether that's when we're training, or whether it's when we had something that we've had to deal with on our jobs, or when we've gone into a store, or some way of processing a conversation that we've had with our family. We need to have other individuals

00:10:52.170 --> 00:10:54.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who will support us

00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:55.790 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: on the journey.

00:10:55.800 --> 00:10:59.690 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But i'm very, very grateful to have many people that I can talk to

00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:01.040 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about this,

00:11:01.050 --> 00:11:06.019 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I also know the importance, even within that

00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:21.260 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: of setting boundaries sometimes for other folks who perhaps are not the supporters or or not the people that I talk to all the time for support. They may come because there might be a time that they want to express

00:11:21.270 --> 00:11:33.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: their frustration is equally important for us to also set boundaries like I said, I didn't set it with that lady, but it's really really important for us to say.

00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:38.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I appreciate that you want to talk with me about this,

00:11:38.920 --> 00:11:42.089 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: but I don't have the bandwidth to do that today,

00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:58.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: or particularly. Here's another thing that I want to just share as well. There are people when they know that you do this work. They want to pick your brain, but they may not want to hire you to do the work.

00:11:59.990 --> 00:12:02.900 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No one needs to pick your brain for free.

00:12:04.610 --> 00:12:06.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let me say it again.

00:12:06.790 --> 00:12:09.630 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: No one needs to pick your brain for free.

00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:12.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: If they value doing the work, they

00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:19.849 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: pay someone to help them understand how to dismantle racism.

00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:22.560 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: This work is valuable,

00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:36.469 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and if we engage in this work all the time, twenty, four over seven, with people calling to pick our brains about things,

00:12:36.900 --> 00:12:42.910 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we never have time to even do the work that we are really passionate about doing.

00:12:44.010 --> 00:12:46.660 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Let's say we're doing a workshop.

00:12:46.970 --> 00:12:59.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It takes time to develop that. But if I have people picking my brain all the time It doesn't Give me time to put in the work. I need to to develop the best course, the best curriculum,

00:12:59.900 --> 00:13:07.529 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: even if it's already developed, I could be using my time doing something else as well. I think you get the point. You

00:13:08.590 --> 00:13:14.450 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: value the work that you do value who you are, and how you're showing up

00:13:15.920 --> 00:13:17.870 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: set boundaries.

00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:20.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It's, support it,

00:13:21.350 --> 00:13:23.319 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and take care of yourself.

00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:41.539 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I am delighted that one of the people who supports me in this work, even though we just met is my guest for today, and i'm going to tell you a little bit about her when we return from our break.

00:13:41.550 --> 00:13:57.829 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: But just to give you a sense of the conversation today, we're actually going to be talking about starting with the self. I'm going to be talking with Willeska, Lugo de Hayesus, and I again will tell you more about her

00:13:57.860 --> 00:14:05.679 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: after the break. This is the dismantle Racism show. I'm, your host, the Reverend Doctor of Tlc. Will be right back.

00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:13.589 Are you a business owner? Do you want to be a business owner? Do you work with business owners.

00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:28.629 I'm, Stephen Fry, your small and medium-sized business or Smb. Go and i'm the host of the new show always Friday, while I love to have fun on my show. We take those Friday feelings of freedom and fire to discuss popular topics in the minds of Smes today.

00:14:28.640 --> 00:14:35.030 Please join me at my various special guests on Friday at eleven Am. On Talk Radio. Nyc.

00:14:37.290 --> 00:14:39.569 Are you a conscious co-creator?

00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:43.810 Are you on a quest to raise your vibration and your consciousness,

00:14:43.920 --> 00:15:00.210 Sam Sam Biebl, your conscious consultants, and on my show, the conscious consultant hour of awakening humanity. We will touch upon all these topics and more. Listen. Live at our new time on Thursdays, at twelve noon, Eastern time,

00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:07.699 the conscious consultant hour of weakening humanity. Thursday's twelve noon on Talk Radio Nyc.

00:15:12.780 --> 00:15:18.099 Are you on edge. Hey, We live in challenging engine time. So let's lean in.

00:15:18.110 --> 00:15:42.189 I'm. Sander, Bargeman, the host of the edge of every day, which airs each Monday at seven Pm. Eastern time on talk radio dot Nyc. Tune in Live with me and my friends and colleagues as we share stories and perspectives about pushing boundaries and exploring our rock edges. That's the edge of every day on Mondays at seven Pm. Eastern time on top radio, dot Nyc:

00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:49.939 You're listening to talk radio Nyc. Uplift, educate, and power.

00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:49.229 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We're back with the dismantled racism. Show my guest today is Lesta Lugo the hissis. She is the ceo of inclusive strategies. She's a nationally certified diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging facilitator, dedicated to creating social change with a human centered racial, healing approach, addressing systemic racism for equitable environment.

00:16:49.240 --> 00:17:10.139 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: She has twenty years of advocacy for anti-racism work, and is widely recognized for her innovative ability to Broaden coalitions and build communities of inclusion. She serves as Massachusetts women of color founding board, member helping to address in equities through

00:17:10.150 --> 00:17:23.249 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: authentic inclusion, and she also serves as Commissioner to Massachusetts Arts and Cultural Council. She has so many accolades for doing this work.

00:17:23.260 --> 00:17:39.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I recently met Ah Wolesca, for an event that I was planning, and I feel like we're kindred spirits and just sisters already. Well, let's go welcome to the show. I am so delighted to have you,

00:17:40.260 --> 00:17:56.139 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Reverend Dr. T. Elsie. I am honored to be reconnected with you to see you again, to share the space in that sacred moment, in our opening, to have been a part of your event, to enjoy your book.

00:17:56.150 --> 00:18:17.099 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Um, and so get in, which is totally connected to to my my my sharing. Today, when when I think about my own truth, my racial healing process, and having to learn about myself. I want to start by just your opening Um, meditation and and

00:18:17.110 --> 00:18:24.229 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): understanding. The need to have a sacred process and and practice and mine has been

00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:53.560 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): for the past two decades. Ah! Every time i'm entering into a space I I love how you shared all the different interactions, And and when you're hosting a group of people, all of the energy that we take in um as an empath also. Ah, it it can be ah, extremely draining. So I think about the visual of putting your oxygen first right when you're in the air pay, and how can I take in the the presence of

00:18:53.570 --> 00:19:16.100 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): of everyone's story at the same time protect myself. So some things that I do is I make sure not to watch Tv. Two days before the event. I know that I have to isolate myself in a room for maybe one day. Ah! And and I took on spinning as as a way to ah release. So I wanted to share that if that helps anyone.

00:19:16.110 --> 00:19:35.590 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): But I I I appreciate your your intro. Um, I I want to say that I identify as an apple that next social impact entrepreneur, although people call me an activist and equalist. What i'm really trying to do is just make sure that we can all exist in a world where our humanity is valued.

00:19:35.600 --> 00:19:41.129 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes, you know The one thing that people don't seem to realize

00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:56.739 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: is that we're whole when we are connected with one another. We live in this space of othering folks, no matter what the reason is, it could be religion. It could be politics, but we are whole

00:19:56.750 --> 00:20:05.680 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when we are able to come together. I'm delighted, though, to hear all the ways in which you center

00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:12.519 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: ground yourself, and and I and I happen to know, because

00:20:12.650 --> 00:20:27.240 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: we've been in these spaces together. Um, and especially as we prepared for the event that you were part of with me, There's a connectedness with your sacred source as well.

00:20:27.570 --> 00:20:33.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And how valuable is that to you for doing this work?

00:20:33.690 --> 00:21:00.150 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): It's everything. Um! You know the the the work for me was having to understand um my truth first, and and making the conscious choice not to be victimized. Um, and find strength. You were also opening and saying, I am, I am. And I was thinking, What am I? What am I? And and my word was that I found in that moment is that I am strong.

00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:19.379 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): You know we we go through, we we do this work, and what has helped me in the past two decades is that I use my lived experience as a way to um. My process is three. So it's humanity and humility helps me build. Trust. That's one.

00:21:19.390 --> 00:21:27.139 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): The second intimacy. I share my story. I hear your story. We're sharing those stories, and the third is gratitude

00:21:27.150 --> 00:21:43.689 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): being um being consciously um aware that ah! Sharing our stories, and reliving some of these moments, Um takes a toll, and so I care for you. You care for me, and we um, and we share this space.

00:21:43.700 --> 00:21:48.580 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So speaking of sharing the stories, when did you first

00:21:48.980 --> 00:21:51.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: realize that you're different?

00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:55.709 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: When did you first understand race and racism?

00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.459 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Thank you for the question.

00:21:58.470 --> 00:22:17.930 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I want to say it was two decades ago, and and that was the pivotal moment of why I started this work. I was in my twenties, my early twenties, and I worked in a um, a small mom and pop shop in Puerto Rico that got bought out by a global company and moved me to Ohio,

00:22:18.230 --> 00:22:32.330 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and when I arrived to Ohio, although I love my work and my colleagues, it was a global business that was very diverse. So I was just thinking that I was going to fit in,

00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:46.659 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and and different things happened to me. So you know everything from people questioning what I was eating, how my food smelled so it's like my cultural traditional meals.

00:22:46.670 --> 00:23:00.200 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I went into restaurants, and I wouldn't be served, and then a white female behind me walked in, and I was told that the kitchen was closed, and they took her order and served her.

00:23:00.210 --> 00:23:07.749 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I remember one time going into what is like a a big supermarket

00:23:07.770 --> 00:23:36.350 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): in Ohio, and uh, a gentleman at the door telling me No, no, no, like I can't go in, and it was the middle of the day. I know that it's not closed. He wasn't identified as an employee, and he raises his uh slacks and his pants, and he points to his white uh socks. And so what he was telling me basically is, you can't go in because you're not white. Well, and those I I now know right that those those are

00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:51.800 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): um those micro-aggressions that that that racialized acts of that discrimination was happening to me on a daily basis. And that's where I became aware What is it about me that

00:23:51.810 --> 00:23:57.790 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): either, you know, scares, intimidates, or people just don't feel comfortable with?

00:23:57.800 --> 00:23:58.690 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): And so

00:23:58.700 --> 00:24:14.590 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): for me, What I What I had to do is really own my story, and in order to own my story, I needed to understand my history. I was taught history a different way in Puerto Rico that you know Christopher Columbus saved us. Well, he didn't

00:24:14.600 --> 00:24:33.630 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): right. Ah! And so I had to learn about colonization. I had to learn about genocide. I had to learn about slavery, Jim Crow um the Civil Rights movement that eventually to answer the question directly, you know, in in my own experience with racism

00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:48.099 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): um. I was inspired to ah to do this work, and and and so I use my own experience. I use my my stories as a way to build, trust and to help heal.

00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:50.430 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: So what did it?

00:24:50.460 --> 00:25:01.579 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): What did it feel like for you? I mean, I I know as a person of color what it feels like when these microaggressions are happening, and sometimes they're not actually microaggressions.

00:25:02.310 --> 00:25:22.680 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Tell me what it what it would have felt like for you when you started to realize that because I imagine you know you're in Puerto Rico like when you grow up within your culture or your surrounding. But you you may not face these things as much as you do when you go out, and it's such a shocker for some people right, even though you know about it.

00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:25.219 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: What? What's it like for you?

00:25:26.150 --> 00:25:45.899 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): It was dehumanizing. It was dehumanizing um. You know the the The emotion I felt was um sometimes defensive. Many times in the beginning, while I learned to manage um how to react and disrupt. I felt my heart,

00:25:45.910 --> 00:26:15.880 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): you know, was about to explode from my chest and um, And so I I was having physical reaction. I was having emotional reaction and um. And the only way I knew to heal was to understand. Okay, So even even so in for the legal. Maybe I didn't experience racism, but I experience colorism. So I I identify as an aproorgan, and and I self identify as black, if I had to choose which

00:26:15.890 --> 00:26:45.809 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): in my senses of black and white. Because I I I don't feel that I identify as why? Um, and because of my background. You know I had to prove that. Um from Puerto Rico. I'm a citizen of the Us. And um I I I I use bilingualism. You know I I do Spanish. I talk in English and in Spanish, which is an advantage in in in the workplace now. Um, but you know, in in this in the eighties it it really wasn't. Um I come from a bicultural

00:26:45.820 --> 00:26:59.699 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): family. So, although all of these things have to do with my identity and the complexity of who I am, and why I was waking up to that reality of not being treated equally.

00:26:59.830 --> 00:27:19.770 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): That is just a glimpse of who who who I am in the context of of of the history, and my account for my experience. So I remember myself. Um in that moment, as um, you know. Ah, learning to be as human as I could be, so people could feel comfortable with me.

00:27:20.080 --> 00:27:31.970 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yeah, So there's a lot of um navigating that we have to do that. I don't think people realize just on a day to day basis. So I heard you say,

00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:51.459 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and around helping other people to feel comfortable. Um, that's ah, that's another um topic. I I would say that you You talked a lot, and we will get into this internalized racism piece as well in in just a bit. We are going to have to take a break,

00:27:51.580 --> 00:28:13.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know. I do want to just make a comment about this colorism piece, because I've talked about it on the show here before, and I often will hear people ah, especially people who come from other countries, or maybe other islands, they'll say, Oh, no, we We don't have our racism. And I actually think colorism is racism.

00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:13.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yeah, right,

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:32.000 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you know. And And so And I think that when you get into internalized racism you'll probably talk about that a bit more. But it's all about trying to get to to the whiteness piece right when we say, Oh, you know you have lighter skin. So you're prettier, or oh, you Oh,

00:28:32.010 --> 00:28:35.689 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I and this one I really detest. Oh, you have good hair.

00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:38.190 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yeah, what is What is that

00:28:38.200 --> 00:29:00.729 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): right? But you know you have air on your head. It's good air, and it's funny how how we cannot appreciate what we have right, you know, and sometimes people who consider to have the good hair like No, I wish I had here like yours, because then I could do X, Y. And Z with my hair right? So it really is going back to what you said

00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:03.060 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: about understanding

00:29:03.170 --> 00:29:07.429 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: who you are, the complexities you bring,

00:29:07.650 --> 00:29:12.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and understanding how we show up in the world, and also

00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:31.600 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: not owning what other people think of us, which i'm sure we're going to get into with the healing process. We're going to take a break, and we will be right back with my guest today. Willescal, Lugo de Hayesus. This is the dismantle racism show we'll be right back

00:29:33.390 --> 00:30:00.120 passionate about the conversation around racism. Hi I'm Reverend Dr. Tlc. Post of the dismantling racism show which airs every Thursday at eleven A. M. Eastern on talk radio, dot Nyc join me and my amazing guest. As we discussed ways to uncover dismantled and eradicate racism That's Thursday at eleven o'clock A. M. On talk radio, Dot Nyc.

00:30:03.530 --> 00:30:15.539 But you have small business trying to navigate the Covid. Nineteen related employment laws. Hello, I'm Eric sovereign employment, law, business, law, attorney and host of the new Radio Show climate law today

00:30:15.550 --> 00:30:28.859 on my show we'll have guests to discuss the common employment Life challenges. Business owners are facing during these trying times tune in on Tuesday evening from five P. M. To six P. M. Eastern time on talk videos on Nyc.

00:30:34.850 --> 00:30:51.389 Everybody. It's coming, Dean and the nonprofit sector Connecticut coming at you from my attic each week here on top radio at Nyc. I hope to program the land of the main focus. Nonprofits in contact us each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their stories.

00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:58.950 Listen: Each week at ten A. M. We shouldn't stand in time until eleven. A. M. Is substantive right here on talk radio.

00:31:00.010 --> 00:31:09.520 You're listening to talk radio and Lysi at Www. Talk radio and live c. Now broadcasting twenty, four hours a day.

00:31:16.970 --> 00:31:24.379 You are listening to talk radio and

00:31:44.310 --> 00:32:03.020 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: sorry about that. We're back with the dismantle racism show. And my guest today Welles the Google, the his who has been talking about the work that um she does with diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging. But before even getting into what she's,

00:32:03.030 --> 00:32:12.559 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: what she does, she's talked about what led her to this process, and so now that we understand

00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:16.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: why you do this work, your passion around doing this work.

00:32:17.170 --> 00:32:33.779 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I know that in your work you talk about the different forms of racism, and I think it's important for us to just get into that just a little bit during this segment. So talk to me about the different forms of racism.

00:32:34.150 --> 00:32:51.759 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Thank you, Reverend Dr. Tlc. So in my work I I want to have a common understanding of of what this signifies, and also for people to understand that even part of our earlier conversation that we are conditioned.

00:32:51.770 --> 00:33:12.660 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Society has conditioned us to feel, react. Um stereotype prejudice bias against any any anyone that is different. So the four forms of racism that I center my work around is internalized racism, interpersonal racism, institutional racism, and systemic racism.

00:33:12.670 --> 00:33:40.140 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): We were talking about um colorism right and and the impact, and and and earlier I was sharing how you know my goal is to just have humanity value period right? If we could simplify things. But what internalized racism Ah! And and ties into the colorism which is really assigning value to people, or devaluing that just because of the color of my skin right when I was,

00:33:40.150 --> 00:33:59.210 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and you were asking, how did it feel for me and it and and I I felt dehumanized. But internalized racism is what we believe, what we believe about race, about, about racism, and how we are influenced by culture and by society. So if I were to divide those in two,

00:33:59.230 --> 00:34:12.030 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): because one of the things that I often say in so many spaces is that we are all affected by racism. Every person is affected by racism. It doesn't matter if you black or white, everyone is affected by racism.

00:34:12.040 --> 00:34:25.390 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): And so, if we have a stereotype of that generalization of people that that plays into what we internalize as human beings. If we have prejudice that negative

00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:33.490 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): act against people, we internalize how we treat others. So there's internalized oppression

00:34:33.500 --> 00:34:50.089 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): as a person of color, because people tell me that i'm not smart enough because people ask me, you know, because you're Puerto Rican. You must have, you know seven kids, um or or you must not have a degree. And and and I

00:34:50.330 --> 00:34:56.180 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): it let me speak from the self which is, I always advocate everyone to do Speaking from the cell

00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:04.690 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): have been told so many times. My sacrifices have been. I have sacrificed jobs right.

00:35:04.700 --> 00:35:24.920 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I have seen other people get paid more than me for doing the same amount of work. Um! Either be a gender bias or or other, and and I have been told you're not good enough, or you speak good English, or you're not like them. Well, who is that right? And so

00:35:24.930 --> 00:35:50.049 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): so more, And and my my story of Ah, when you asked, you know, when did I? Um, When did I first know that I was different, and and my that I was this racial being? Um that work. Experience that I had was is just one story of more than two hundred that I can share, but as as a person of color, as a path of Puerto Rican.

00:35:50.170 --> 00:35:59.310 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I can internalize that oppression. And so, then I have a choice. Now that I've internalized it. Am I going to accept it?

00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:05.489 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): And your advice earlier, you can also reject it.

00:36:05.500 --> 00:36:14.950 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): And then there's that internalized privilege, right? A white person thinking Well, I am superior. I I am deserving. You know this is my space,

00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:33.589 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): ignoring that systemically people are being oppressed, not because you want to, not because you don't, I don't feel that people are born entitled. But there is the reality that that that people have to understand, that just because of the color of your skin,

00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:52.479 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): because it has any nothing to do with your character. How you love? Are there people that you have one black friend, that that just because of the color of your skin you are um privileged. That's hard for people to understand. So so when so when I, when I talk about

00:36:52.490 --> 00:37:08.060 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): internalized racism, that's one I talk about that We all form images. We all form feelings. We we all have thoughts about um, and race is socially construct right? So we're using it because we have to use it, but

00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:13.510 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): good and bad. We create these thoughts about people. So

00:37:13.590 --> 00:37:31.829 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): my my wish for everyone is that, you understand, which is the second part in um interpersonal of racism that you have a responsibility of how you treat other people. Now that you understand that we are carrying biases. I'm guilty. Mm-hmm i'm guilty.

00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:48.689 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Ah, Reverend Dr. Tlosi, I cannot, I mean I I've served on more than twenty boards, commissions, committees, um, and most of the time I was yodi Latina. I'm the only female, or I always like to think that I look younger than everybody else, you know.

00:37:48.700 --> 00:37:50.160 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yeah,

00:37:50.170 --> 00:37:55.289 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I know My guess is my dad. I was saying twenty years she's been doing this twenty two.

00:37:55.300 --> 00:38:14.669 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yeah, I I i'm forty, thirty-six So you know. So if I understand that I've internalized as a human being all of these things that society has told me. And now I have a responsibility in the interpersonal racism, because it exists because we have bias. I I don't feel bad about that,

00:38:14.680 --> 00:38:21.789 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): You know. I know that I walk into spaces, and I feel that sometimes. Oh, here we go again. I have to prove myself.

00:38:21.850 --> 00:38:35.439 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I'm doing this snap out of it. But I checked myself because i'm I am hyper-aware because you, I mean, you know, finish with

00:38:35.450 --> 00:38:49.389 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): or go to the next one. Is this: internalized racism is a subtle thing that in our own cultures we don't even know how we're doing so. Even when we do the colorism piece we don't recognize we're being

00:38:49.440 --> 00:39:01.899 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): um, you know we've we've gotten into this idea that white is better. So that's why it's internalized. And when we think you know you're not you're not

00:39:01.910 --> 00:39:10.590 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: pretty, because you're dark-skinned I had someone to tell me very recently that they were never told in their family that they were pretty,

00:39:10.600 --> 00:39:24.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and now they were told they were smart. They told all these other things, but other folks who had light their skin were told they were pretty. So it wasn't just about trying to teach this person that we don't give in to this outside standard of beauty.

00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:34.050 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And so as a result, they've had to do the work around, understanding how beautiful they are when we talk to people. Since you mentioned the English fees,

00:39:34.190 --> 00:39:37.180 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: when we say they should speak English.

00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:44.050 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): They're over here. They should speak English, or we criticize within our own race

00:39:45.130 --> 00:39:47.620 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: people who don't speak

00:39:48.040 --> 00:39:57.860 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: the King James English as if speaking it in a particular way, has to be the only way. And so there's subtle things that we do.

00:39:57.870 --> 00:40:09.609 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Internalized racisms when the black people in the suburbs think they're better than the black people who live in the inner city or that sort of thing. And so I just want to make sure that

00:40:09.620 --> 00:40:18.230 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: our guests, our listeners, have some examples of the ways in which this stuff is so very subtle. I've even had

00:40:18.490 --> 00:40:25.989 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: white people to share with me that if they were the darker ones and their families, how people would talk for them!

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:45.750 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's how subtle this stuff is, and people, you know, not realizing it. So I want to thank you for like just breaking down even the internalized racism, and and really sharing also about Ah, racism absolutely impacts white,

00:40:45.760 --> 00:41:03.940 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: black black black necks like every single person. And even if it's impacting you in a positive way like you were saying so, so thank you for just sharing that, and and sharing with us the interpersonal piece of that we have work to do.

00:41:03.950 --> 00:41:23.410 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): It is um, and and you know the the importance of that is, that it cannot be oversimplified. Your point is so valid that let's bring it back to us right, and which is why I love the book from the inside out, and I struggled with it because um dis mountain and racism. But but

00:41:23.860 --> 00:41:37.599 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): you forced me to look inside myself in ways that I help others do. But I don't take the time to do for myself and and and that's so important, because,

00:41:37.610 --> 00:41:43.870 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): if we understand, you know when I say complex. We are just complex period

00:41:43.880 --> 00:42:08.640 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): when I go into, so my work is. Ah, you know I I go into different sectors of the community, and it's a cross industry. We can. We're facilitators in this work. We're educating, we're keating you know i've worked with the private sector with healthcare with k twelve higher ed non-profit interface municipal government, art and cultural construction,

00:42:08.650 --> 00:42:13.960 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): brewery. You know all of these different industries, and one thing is the same,

00:42:14.420 --> 00:42:18.689 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): that and this is a third one. The institutional racism,

00:42:18.700 --> 00:42:33.159 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yeah, is that you can bring us in to have a conversation about how to dismantle racism. But if you do not understand that policies and procedures and practices are upheld by people.

00:42:33.170 --> 00:42:33.890 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes,

00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:49.430 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): you're not going to make progress, and so for me. Do the internal work, and I mean that twofold do the internal work, you as individual as the leader. But do the internal work as an organization is, What is it that you're allowing?

00:42:49.450 --> 00:43:08.789 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): That is giving um advantage right to some people over others, and um and I and I and I know in my experience I have rejected Job offers really good paying ones. I've had six-figure salaries, and I've dropped fifty thousand dollars a year

00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:24.680 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): because I understand that I know my place. I know my value, but I am also a fair person, right? And so if you have a policy, and you want to either for tokenism right, you just want me, because i'm the Puerto Rican,

00:43:24.690 --> 00:43:36.030 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): or that you want to put me in a position and disregard someone that has been doing it for maybe ten years more than me. I'm going to teach you a lesson.

00:43:36.040 --> 00:43:50.510 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yes, and so hiring practices. Um, you know there's there's over ways of discriminating against groups, and what we internalize right being that first form of racism.

00:43:50.520 --> 00:43:57.690 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): It is going to inform how we work, how we show up in the community how we show up any leadership.

00:43:57.700 --> 00:44:15.119 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): And so in institutional racism occurs within systems of power, but it's the people I like. I can't, I say that. And it sounds so. Um elementary, but it it. It is the peoples. I know people that you can think of

00:44:15.130 --> 00:44:27.790 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): twenty five de I efforts that you want to execute before twenty, twenty, five, and if you have three people that do not believe that racism exists, You're not going to accomplish one of them.

00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:48.259 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: That's right. That's right. Absolutely right. Well, let's go. We have to take another break, and when we come back I want you to talk about um. The last form of of racism that you talk about in your practice, which is systemic racism, and be able to break that down a little bit. So we will be right back after these messages.

00:44:48.270 --> 00:44:49.220 Thank you.

00:44:51.080 --> 00:45:01.090 Anybody who's Tommy deed a nonprofit sector can actually coming at you from my attic each week here on It's operating that Nyc. I host program the land of the main focus.

00:45:01.100 --> 00:45:15.149 Nonprofits in contact us each and every day, and it's my focus to help them amplify their message and tell their story. Listen each week at ten A. M. Eastern Standard time until eleven. A. M. Is right here on talk radio.

00:45:15.770 --> 00:45:21.219 You may have many unanswered questions regarding your health.

00:45:21.260 --> 00:45:44.210 Are you looking to live a healthier lifestyle? Do you have a desire to learn more about mental health, and enhance your body of life? Or do you just want to participate in self-understanding and awareness. I'm Frank R. Harrison, host to pray about how any Thursday I will tackle these questions and work on my news tune in every group at five Pm. On talk radio at Nyc. And I will be frank about how to advocate for all of us,

00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:52.189 pulling all pet loggers

00:45:52.410 --> 00:46:08.269 on the professionals and animal lovers show. We believe the bond between animal lovers is incredibly strong. It mirrors that bond between pets and their owners. Through this program we come together to learn, educate, and advocate

00:46:08.300 --> 00:46:14.179 to join us. Live every Wednesday at two zero P. M. And talk radio and

00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:26.680 Yc. At Ww. Talk radio and Yc. Now broadcasting twenty four hours a day

00:46:49.710 --> 00:46:53.999 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: We are back with a dismantle racism show

00:46:54.010 --> 00:47:11.540 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: before the break. We were talking Leska about the various forms of racism that you talk about in your work. Tell me a little bit about the last one you've talked about internalized racism into personal racism, institutional racism. And now what is the last one?

00:47:11.550 --> 00:47:26.380 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Thank you. So the last one is systemic racism which sometimes you've heard it. We call that structural racism, and that's really that racial bias amongst institutions. And this is what brings everything together.

00:47:26.390 --> 00:47:54.330 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Um. It's multi-layer. It exists in society. It's it it it includes history. It It includes cultural, and it's really how these um systems interact with each other to provide disadvantage. Um, specifically to people of color or or any other is on any other that is, uh oppressed. So historically we can look at trauma. We can look at thanks

00:47:54.340 --> 00:48:11.830 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): practices. We can look at Red Knighting. We can look at white supremacy culture and that normalization Um, And you said it, that white is better, right. And and and so, if you do not understand that organizations

00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:18.539 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): these systems in place, and we have blind spots to

00:48:18.550 --> 00:48:32.840 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): to how this has a relevance in the daily operations of any businesses. It could be a two-person business. It could be um a a three thousand employee business. Um! It could be It could be in the community.

00:48:32.900 --> 00:48:50.990 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Then that's a problem. So my my work centers around um, making sure that um it. It really does start with systemic because it's one of the things that I often say is. This is not caused by you or I, but we have a responsibility to fix it.

00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:51.990 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Yes,

00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:53.319 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: yes,

00:48:53.330 --> 00:48:54.189 exactly.

00:48:54.200 --> 00:49:14.129 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): So We We know that these four forms exist. I understand who I am. I know that I am part of an institution and an institution doesn't have to be a workplace. It's just, you know there's many forms of that, and that systemically things have been built to a press. Then. Um!

00:49:14.670 --> 00:49:24.989 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I need to make a change right. I need to make a change and and part of what I would. What I would invite. Your voice also is that

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:44.240 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): if I go back to what does this mean for me right going into the starting with the self. What does this mean for me? And it means that even as a racial equity consultant, you know diversity adviser, whatever you want to call me,

00:49:45.530 --> 00:49:48.660 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I have had to make sacrifices

00:49:48.670 --> 00:50:18.530 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): as as a person, as a human being. In order to do this work sacrifices for me. My son just turned twenty-one, you know. I I know for a fact that his developing years between maybe nine and thirteen I you know I worked seventy hours, and and and and I was pulled in so many directions. You started, and and you shared like. Sometimes we don't even want to go to the supermarket, because people are going to unload on you

00:50:18.540 --> 00:50:35.520 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and um and and and won't Expect you to be a hundred percent present all the time, or a fixer, right of of racism. And and so the sacrifice

00:50:35.670 --> 00:50:50.100 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): a decision that we make, knowing that we we lose a little bit of ourselves in order to continue to um to make good. So I have.

00:50:50.110 --> 00:50:56.350 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I've also walked away from opportunities, because

00:50:56.540 --> 00:51:09.490 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I know that I am in a place that as much as I want to be a disruptor, it is so toxic that it is it's it's showering me with weight. And so,

00:51:09.500 --> 00:51:10.990 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): if you

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:12.490 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): you know when to walk away from that

00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:28.390 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): exactly. And I really appreciate you saying that because not every battle is yours to fight, and that goes back to what I was saying earlier about boundaries. And you know, Alaska, here's what I want to say, because I can really feel you when you talk about your son,

00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:32.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and knowing that there were parts of his life where you were

00:51:32.410 --> 00:51:39.719 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: not available in the way, perhaps that you, you might have wanted to be available.

00:51:39.730 --> 00:52:03.460 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I know that we're kindred spirits, as it relates to that, because I remember when I was first doing this work um well for a company when I did it for a company that I was with. I had to travel, but I had to go away from my kids all the time, and sometimes they call me mom such and such as happening. You know something that they were upset about. What could I do when i'm miles away from them? And they were little,

00:52:03.470 --> 00:52:19.159 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and I don't think that people um really understand that when we do this work those of us will do this work all the time it comes with extreme sacrifices. But here's what I want you to know the list, and I know that you already know this.

00:52:20.690 --> 00:52:23.440 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: It is what Ah

00:52:24.010 --> 00:52:28.200 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: makes our kids who they are in the sense of

00:52:28.210 --> 00:52:47.609 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): how they learn to show up in the world by watching us do this work. And you know, from reading my book where I share the story of my girls when we're at a protest, and they didn't even know my history of doing this. They didn't know what I did when I used to go off and work.

00:52:47.620 --> 00:52:54.090 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: There obviously was something that they saw in me to say, Mom, go up and start this protest,

00:52:54.100 --> 00:53:10.419 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and So just know that in the midst of the sacrifices that you have made and are making, now that there are those moments, though where our kids can can come back to us and just

00:53:10.430 --> 00:53:28.640 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: in deep appreciation. So I just want to thank you as a fellow trainer for staying in this this work of of doing this, and and then we also know that sometimes things don't work out as well. Either that you know, I think, about the the kings of the world,

00:53:28.650 --> 00:53:47.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and and um all those people with their children what they had to go through. So thank you, though, for for sharing that, and just know that you are doing some great great work. And there's one other quick thing that I want to say before we

00:53:47.140 --> 00:53:52.499 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: have to go, and that is, when you talked about the book, and

00:53:53.130 --> 00:54:06.480 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: you talked about the impact that it had on you because you had to say, Wow! You know I i'm not doing some of this work. It's interesting because I picked up the book this morning, and I was looking at the the last

00:54:06.520 --> 00:54:08.290 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: a chapter,

00:54:08.390 --> 00:54:20.359 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and there's a word that I use in their incubation sometimes that when we're going through this, there's an incubation period that we have to wait for.

00:54:20.370 --> 00:54:26.399 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: And I thought about that, because sometimes I want things to move a lot faster than they're moving.

00:54:28.780 --> 00:54:32.089 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: I guess you wrote this book for you

00:54:32.100 --> 00:54:37.130 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: right, you know. Just in that moment it just clicked. It's just like when I do a sermon.

00:54:37.140 --> 00:54:51.740 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: You know you're talking to yourself when you're doing this service, and so I just want you to know that as my kindred sister, who's a sojourner in this work, these are all the things that we all

00:54:51.750 --> 00:55:10.960 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): ah go through, and we are doing good work out here, and I just want to thank you so much for that. So before we have to close, please tell our audience how they can get in touch with you. I know you have a call to action for them, so will you share that with them?

00:55:10.970 --> 00:55:40.340 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I will. Um, I I I have to start by appreciation and uh and hope that people tune in to talk radio that Nyc. Uh. Continue to support you in the course that you shared earlier. Um. And and i'm reminded from the book that you said you don't get to opt out right. We're talking about the four forms of racism and other people understand that these systems are built to really continue uh to oppress um. And And this

00:55:40.350 --> 00:55:54.390 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): this has been the right time for me. Right reading your book being connected to you, understanding that i'm not the only one like. Sometimes I I walk, and I feel like you know, is anybody else living this kind of life like I don't

00:55:54.400 --> 00:56:10.950 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): I don't slow down. I'm going one hundred miles per hour, and i'm spinning, and although I consciously know that I have this um sacred practice. As you talked earlier, I I don't always exercise it. So you've given me an opportunity to pause and to be reminded of that.

00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:14.529 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Um! What I want to say for the call to action is that?

00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:34.050 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Ah, think about your listeners. I want them to think about what you have internalized as as a person what your history is, What? How are you affected? How are you coping with that, and then be reminded that what affects one of us affects all of us.

00:56:34.060 --> 00:56:37.950 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): We are all affected by this, and and

00:56:37.960 --> 00:57:06.430 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): and i'll give my website it's uh Www. Dot inclusive uh dash strategies dot com uh i'm Also, I'm linkedin by my phone name what I've got over there. So um and uh and I want to thank you for this gratifying honor to to to be doing this work. Um. And and my, because we are talking about the starting with the self, my hope is that people take care of themselves first, and then each other.

00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:28.509 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): Yes, thank you, thank you so much. I am so excited just that you were on the show today. I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful to you, my listeners, for being here today. I want to invite you to stay tuned for the conscious consultant hour with Sam Liquid, where he helps you to walk through life with the greatest of things enjoy,

00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:37.470 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: May today you tap into that sacred part of you that allows you to make choices that manifest the good in you

00:57:37.540 --> 00:57:53.770 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: and those around. You know that we are all one and exist because of one another. Make it a priority to share love, hope, compassion, and peace. Today be well. Be safe.

00:57:53.780 --> 00:57:57.709 Rev. Dr. Terrlyn Curry Avery: Be encouraged until next time, bye, for now

00:57:57.740 --> 00:57:58.819 Waleska Lugo-DeJesús (she/her/ella): it's it.

download this episode of